32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Hand Pass Havoc

Episode Date: December 12, 2025

In this edition of 32 Thoughts, Kyle Bukauskas and Elliotte Friedman open with the remarkable starts from Brandon Bussi, nine wins in his first ten games, and Canadiens rookie Jacob Fowler holding his own between the pipes (4:22). The guys touch on key injuries to Roope Hintz and Logan Cooley (11:33) before diving into Nashville’s offensive surge (15:03) and the Rangers’ letdown in a 3–0 loss to Chicago (17:40 ). They discuss JT Miller’s slipping Olympic stock (18:49), the disappointing state of the St. Louis Blues (20:17), and Ryan Strome’s search for stability in Anaheim as the Kings keep tabs (31:10). Elliotte breaks down the latest Olympic developments, including player-driven decisions, Ron Hainsey’s focus on safety, and frustration over the lack of a hockey hospitality area in Milan (25:36). The fellas also revisit the growing hand-pass controversy in video review and why the first-challenge penalty feels too harsh for certain plays (32:23). The Final Thought features Elliotte’s recent trip to Washington for a sit-down with Tom Wilson (42:23).Kyle and Elliotte answer your emails and voicemails in the Thoughtline (50:02).Today we highlight Beauts, an indie rock back out of Halifax, and their song Cave. Check out their music here.Listen to all the 32 Thoughts music here.Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates

No one ever makes a peep about the fact that Kyle always says Eastern, as in the Eastern Conference, interesting. Oh, I've never even thought about that. Don's laughing, but he knows he's, uh, he's listening to this many, many time going through the editing. Well, like you have leaned into Detroit, I will lean into Eastern. All right, welcome to another edition. of 32 thoughts. The podcast, Elliot Kyle, back with you. Producer Dom, just in from attending the Canucks Sabres game late on Thursday evening. Dom, are you shooketh after attending that game on Thursday night? Yeah. No, I think someone was screwing with Shorty. So basically, if you're not familiar with this, if you were watching the Sabres,

Knox at the beginning of the third period, you know that John Shorthouse claimed that there was an earthquake that happened. His monitor was shaking. He asked Dave Tomlinson, the analyst, if his monitor was shaking too. And Dave, gamely trying to be a good teammate, said, oh, yeah, I saw something.

Could we just have an earthquake? Sorry, the monitor just started shaking. You see that? Yeah, I felt a little something. No, Maddie on how I felt that? No, I'm with you. Okay. Folks, if we just had an earthquake, then we felt it.

We're with you. If not, we're crazy. Clearly he didn't, but Dave, good on you for not bearing your partner, throwing him under the bus on air. And Shorthouse went on about this for about 10 minutes, claiming that there was an earthquake and calling himself now in the same class, is Al Michaels. So I was curious, Dom, was this real or fake?

And I don't know, maybe Shorthouse dropped his intermission pizza box and it shook up his entire booth. I will say this, Elliot, like it's a gondola, so it's hanging from the ceiling. Yes. So when you're in there and if something drops, like if someone drops a box or some equipment, the gondola does shake. like the rest of the building might not shake but the gondola will shake so that's probably what happened

but here's the thing short house has been doing games from that very gondola for what since that building opened in what was it 96 it opened 95 it's been a it's been a while yeah yeah so he should be able he would know the difference between a regular shaking up there and but he was adamant that it was something more extreme on Thursday night. Well, it's because once you commit to the bit, you can't go backwards, right? He was committed.

Yeah. Yes, he was. He's going home. It's going to be walking his dog. I don't even know if he has a dog, but he's going to be walking his dog tomorrow saying, you guys felt the earthquake last night, right? Gaslighting his neighbors. Yeah.

Let me tell you something, Shorty. This is not the day and age to be saying, I really wanted a natural disaster to have occurred last night. Yeah, I know. Well, I think they just, they needed something different to talk about other than the Quinn Hughes saga. And if you think you have come to this podcast to get the latest from Elliott and what's going on there, you would be mistaken. Not happening. go read the blog. I'm tired of talking about it.

Go read the blog. All right. The latest 32 thoughts. The blog was posted late Thursday night. So it is there. I'm tired of talking about it and people are tired of hearing me talk about it. All right. Well, that's fine.

Which is okay because there was plenty of shockwave type performances across the NHL on Thursday. Another busy night on the calendar. I was thinking about this, Elliot. Like, you've had the line that. that comes up every now and then you can trade your problems or you can solve your problems internally. Earlier on in the season, we were kind of looking at, okay, what are some teams that could be looking for goaltending help, who could be out there, what could happen in that regard? And then you've got Brandon Bussie, who was a waiver claim just before the regular season started from Florida. Carolina scooped him up.

Fast as goalie in NHL history to 10 wins. He is 10 and 1 to start his career. Never drafted. Number of years in the Bruins organization playing with Providence, went through the college system before turning pro.

Unbelievable getting an opportunity with the hurricanes. I got a good team to play behind. No question, but he is off to one of the more impressive stories individually so far this season, Elliot. That was one example. Dennis Hildaby, of course, in Toronto. They lost an overtime to San Jose.

First career shutout, though, this week. You think about earlier in the year for the Maple Leafs, they grabbed Caden Primo off waivers, they signed James Reimer to a PTO in training camp, multiple options just to avoid bringing Hildo to be up. They wanted to keep him in the American League to let him continue to develop. he's suddenly in a position where is he going to end up saving Toronto's season? That's not another question here now.

And then Jacob Fowler in Montreal. It's been a tough five, six weeks in the goaltending department for Montreal. Fowler is one who has been regarded and looked at as potentially a great goaltender in waiting. His first full year of pro, a third rounder for the Canadians in 2023. They make the decision after an ugly one against Tampa. other night to call him up. First game in Pittsburgh, brilliant, over 30 saves and a victory. Though who had the best save, though, in a Montreal sweater on Thursday night? Was it Fowler or Lane Hudson? It was Hudson. Sorry, Fowler. Great night, but Hudson made the best save.

Yeah, yeah, that was incredible. So I just thought about that as we're watching the action unfold on Thursday, Elliot, where, you know, who knows where this all goes with some of these guys. some internal promotion and opportunity with some of these teams and some great stories that can come of all of it. A couple of things here. Carolina deserves a lot of credit for the Bussy claim because there were a bunch of guys they could have taken at that time. You know, the Sabers took Ellis and they really like Ellis.

Someone told me last couple days that the Sabres have been looking at Ellis for years, that they liked some of his underlying numbers that they found and eventually obviously claimed him. But Bussie came at a time where there were a lot of choices they could have made on waivers and they picked him and it looks like an extremely shrewd pickup. The Hildaby thing is really amazing because I think the Maple Leafies got to a point where they were kind of down on him. He came up a couple times in the last couple years and didn't play very well.

and they kind of lost confidence in him. And then the other goalie, what's his name, Kyle? Artur Akhtyamov. Easy for you to say. Aktyamov, they brought a man and he kind of passed Hildobie in the organization's eyes. Now, he didn't have as much time over in North America, so he needed to get acclimated.

But I know they started to think of him ahead of Hildobie. And now Hildobie is basically saved their season. You know, he has been incredible this year. Wohl is coming back. I think it's possible he could play Saturday, but now they might wait until next week. But they're going to be really careful with him. And the one thing they were kind of reminded of here, the hard way,

is you can't overplay him, right? And now the way Hildobie's played, they can be confident. They can rest wool a little bit more. Fowler was an amazing story. That's a wild situation. I remember a few years ago, Philly had a game that they had to have delayed. I can't remember if it was a snowstorm or it was an accident,

but the players couldn't get over the bridge into Philadelphia. So they had to delay that game by a while. The Pittsburgh one had to be delayed a half hour, but Fowler played really well, and they really rallied around him. No question about that. You know, we'll see how this goes. The Canadians definitely did not expect

that Jacob Fowler would be counted on to make such a big start early in the year. Like, you would have thought that two or three guys would have been hurt for Fowler to get this opportunity. But he gets it because they're struggling. You know, in the broadcaster meeting we had on Saturday, when Montreal was in Toronto, Kyle, I asked Martin San Luis, would you give Montembo a break? Like, do what Toronto did with Ilyos Sampsonov, minus the waivers. just have them practice for a week and not play games. It's kind of like we did that already.

And now it looks like they might be doing it again. You know, sometimes you have to go back and do things. Now, other things from this night, it sounds ominous for Victor Headman, doesn't it? Oh, boy. As you say, a second opinion, it's never because you like the first one. That's right.

That's right. So usually a second opinion, it's you don't like the timeline, and you want to see if there are other options. Like one of those I remember was last year, Patrick Line, when he got hurt in Montreal in the preseason and, you know, he searched around for a doctor who said, no, we can do this without surgery

and you can come back in a shorter time span. That's kind of what some of these guys are looking for in these situations. But it didn't sound good. It got kind of lost in everything, but Rupa Hintz got hurt at the end of the Dallas, Minnesota game too friendly fire he got hit by his own shot or his own teammate shot and remember he got hurt injured an ankle last year in the playoffs against edmonton so i always worry about that with him he needed to help to get off the stars are off tomorrow we'll see when we get an update

but that didn't look good and then bull horvatt um you know when i saw the way he left the ice was incredibly worried, although Patrick Waugh made it sound like it was far from the worst-case scenario. So that's good loot news for the Islanders and also for Team Canada, because Horvatt is very much one of the forwards on the radar for that spot. Yeah, Utah announcing on Thursday, eight weeks for Logan Cooley. We talked about it didn't look good with the way you went. Now, the key to that one is eight weeks and then evaluated again, right? re-evaluated in eight weeks.

So that says to me that eight weeks is probably, I never want to say it's not going to be what happens because these guys are elite athletes, and I know sometimes people fool around with timelines. So it sounds, when a guy comes back, it's like he beat the timeline as opposed to he was out longer. But when someone says reevaluated after eight weeks, to me it usually says, okay,

there's something that needs to get done here and we'll see how they recover. Like one of the great things about the storyline about McAvoy coming back is that a lot of times when you get like jaw surgery or jaw work done, it's not only the surgery, it's, okay, how does your face react, the jaw react a week after the surgery? Because sometimes it doesn't take or it doesn't work. and so, like, jaw surgery in particular is a really challenging thing. So for McAvoy to be able to come back as quickly as he did, it's an enormous credit to him and whoever worked on him.

So with Cooley, it says to me that it's eight weeks and we're going to see. And hopefully the news will be good. Yeah, Ekman Larson, too, leaving the game in Toronto. I mean, there's a blue line that's been beat up pretty bad already this season and now potentially another name on the injured list. Just to round up the injury conversation from Thursday night. Also, so Stephen Stamco's, Elliot, I mean, the Predators go off against St. Louis.

He scores four. Fourth player, did you see this fourth player in Predators' franchise history to record four goals in a game? Philip Forsberg has done it before. You have a guess at the two other names on that list? I know we save trivia typically for the thought line I assume it's not like Paul Correa or anything like that Yes you would be correct in thinking

Not names maybe you would initially run to As surely they were four-gold guys with the predators You would have thought I would have heard this trivia question tonight But I didn't All right you want to give me some hints We're getting to the trivia early I know I know I know, and we'll have one more coming up later on in the episode, too, I assure you.

Okay, one son of an Islander great. Justin Boren. Great name, great guy, didn't score four goals with the Nashville Predators. Okay, I wanted to shout out Justin. Like, you'd shout out your teammate first. Yes. So that's got to be Eric Nystrom. Bingo.

Wow. Good for Eric. I never would have guessed that. And the other guy, you want the name? Sure. Rocco Grimaldi. Oh, good for Rocco, but I never would have guessed that. Yeah, yeah.

So those are the four. So someone sent me a note tonight, a Predator fan, and they said, ever since Barry Trots said, we need more bleepin something, the predators are on fire. They're averaging four goals a game. Starting to unlock a little bit, eh? So the lesson from this

is that Barry Trotches has sworn at them earlier. I'm sure he did. It just may not have been on radio. I have no doubt that he has. has gone to that well in the past they're on a tear offensively and the other thing too is not only was that a great night for stamcoe's got 12 goals now but also i think evangelisus got three

assists that's that's big for him you know i got into i got into washington and we'll talk about this trip in a bit on wednesday night late or on tuesday night late and i watched the end of Nashville, Colorado, like I watched about the last 10 minutes of that game. And Nashville played them hard. You know, you watch Colorado curbstomp people. And, for example, Florida, they destroyed Florida. It was a bad schedule set up for Florida. They played in Utah the other night.

Then you go to Colorado back into a back-to-back. That's a tough ask. But what I think good teams do is they say, yeah, you know what, it's a tough ask. and we're going to pound you, and they did. Colorado did that. And, you know, I thought Nashville, they played the avalanche hard. It's been a hard year for the predators, but they're showing at least some fight. That's one thing I will say about this league right now is that there's some teams that have fallen back,

but there aren't too many that look like they've quit on their season. You know, Buffalo has had an up and down year, really rough year. a lot of noise around them. Um, they, they've had some disappointing losses, no question, but they finally get a regulation win in Vancouver with a lot of guys out of the lineup. And even Vancouver, which is 32nd in the league, I think for the most part, they play pretty hard. Like every team has bad games.

You know, Chicago had two really bad games, LA and Anaheim, and they go home and they play the Rangers and they beat them. And I have to say, I have rarely seen Mike Sullivan look like he did after that game against Chicago. Like earlier in the year, when the Rangers weren't scoring at home and they were getting shut out all the time, he was like, nope, we're working at it, we're working at it. We just need some good things to happen. We're going to be okay. Like, after that game, he was really, really disappointed in them. It's, we talked about this a little bit on the radio on Thursday with Gordon Stelich and Matt and Mike Futa get well, Markezy. But, you know, he's going to have Sullivan's got, like, I, the whole thing with J.T. Miller,

it's more of a challenge than I think, or I thought it would be. Like, I think he's going to be on the U.S. team, but Miller has played himself into a situation where you're like, you're almost asking the question, should he be on the U.S. team? Like, it's a really tough spot for Sullivan because that's his captain. And you want to take your captain and you're picking the team

and you're worried about how Miller will handle it if he's not going to be picked. But he's really had a rough year. And I think he'll be there because they'll look at it and they'll say, this is the team we're going to need to beat Canada and he can be that kind of a place. player, but it's been harder this year for Miller and less impressive, I think, for Sullivan

when it comes to him than any of us expected. Yeah, it's been a bizarre one. And, I mean, you talk about a team like Chicago after some tough outings. I mean, Craig Simpson always has the line, like, good teams, the dips are far shorter than the ascents. And as we're looking at Chicago this year, Anaheim, San Jose, okay, Are they really any different than previous years? They've all had some rough patches at various points in the early going this year,

but they haven't let that completely spiral out of control. And as for those teams, those fan bases, like a really good sign in terms of, okay, what's the season going to look like? They've managed to find their footing before it really gets ugly for them. You know, also too, Toronto, they were in big trouble. They were last in the east. and they've grinded their way out of there. There's, it's one thing I'll say about this season, San Jose, the way they started this year.

You know, I'll say this, the team and I think this year to this point that has been the most disappointing for me, you know, I think it is. Hmm. Is it the Rangers? No. They're close, but not. St. Louis? Yes. I have really been disappointed in them,

really disappointed in the blues. And I'm sure not as much as they're disappointed in themselves. Right. Right. It's been strange there. It's been, I'm still not sure what to make of the East as a whole, Elliot. There's just too much variance from night to night with how things are all bunched together. You're waiting for one, two teams to kind of start to pull away.

It hasn't happened there yet. But say there's a lot more pleasant surprises around the league than like big time disappointments. But I'm with you, St. Louis, the Rangers, still a lot to figure out there. It's just been it's been puzzling for a whole host of reasons. All right, a couple things from your latest blog. Some names to watch. Maxime Sipulikov on the island, Ryan Strom in Anaheim. Strom, I think that one's obvious.

You know, he was hurt. He was late to play. Anaheim got off to a really good start. You know, players took roles. I don't think this is so much of an indictment as Strom as a player as it is that the team got hot when he was still hurt and everybody kind of lined up their spot, right? So when he came back, it was harder to find his way back into it. You know, the, so I don't think anybody would look at this with the healthy scratches and things like that and say they'd be hugely surprised. And, you know, the reason I kind of got on to it was there was a report and talk about Philip DeNoe on the weekend.

And initially, I kind of thought, yeah, I could see it. I could see why he'd want it. And someone said to me, forget about what he wants for a second. It's what also the team wants. And I think the L.A. Kings, like, first of all, you know Ken Holland. He likes his veterans. He would like a player like Philip Dineau. Even if he's struggling, he would overall, I think, feel that that's a player he likes and needs and would want to be patient. And the second thing is centers are hard to find. And especially, you know, you need to be three centers deep. You've got Byfield, who's not scoring, I think, like people would like him to score, but he plays well defensive. and he's a pretty good physical player. Then you've got Kopitar and everybody knows what Kopitar is. You know, Dono is a really good fit there for that three spot.

And he's one of the guys, even when they haven't beaten Edmonton, he's played pretty well in those series. So I had someone who said to me, unless there's a team out there that makes it worth the King's while, they're not going to do it because they've had trouble with their fourth line see. There's no obvious person that you can move up into the spot if you're you trade him unless you get a replacement. And those are hard to find. But the same people said to me, you know, he's not the same player as to know, but if you're looking for a center,

Strome could be out there. You know, we'll see what happens. So that's a guy they're watching. The Sipilkov thing has really surprised me a bit in the sense that I really liked him last year, rookie at what, 26 years old. He had 35 points. He had 13 goals. He's a big guy. You know, I liked him last year. I thought he was a nice little find by the Islanders and the Russian whisperer, Jim Paliafito. But, you know, this year, you know, you traded for Heinemann. You brought in Druin. You brought in Chabanov. The Islanders are better. He's struggled, too. He's got, I think, only one goal in 20 games. So it's not like that hasn't played a factor in it. But the Islanders have been rolling a bit, and he's had difficulty getting back in.

You know, maybe he gets a chance to get back in if Horvatt misses a game or two. and build some momentum, but, you know, I heard his name out there, and I think teams are looking. So I could see him being a guy that teams would have an interest in. Machelli, I think it's obvious. Kyle, he hasn't played since November 28th. And, you know, I just think that, unfortunately, it hasn't worked out for him in Toronto.

And I think it's, you know, likely, I heard Boston had poked around him. last year when he was available. I don't know if that's still the case now, but you always look and circle it. Who are the other teams that were maybe interested in acquiring them? I know the Bruins were there, and I know they're still looking for a scoring winger as well as they're going,

but I'm not sure if Michelli's going to be their guy still, or they look for someone else. All right. Board of Governors, where we spent the early part of this past week. there are a few takeaways from the two days of meetings the big one of course the Olympic conversations or anything you want to add to that that we haven't covered or just reiterate from what we learned the first half of this week I well I'd say this that the more I've thought about it the more I'm convinced now that they're going and they're playing because the players want it like sometimes you hear something in the moment, and you recognize it, but you go back and you listen to it and you watch it again and you say, it's even more impactful than I thought, or I miss this.

And it just seems like it's based on what Bill Daly said, the league is going to put it in the hands of the players. You know, if they get there, how do they feel about the conditions? Do they feel comfortable and playing on them? And you know what, Kyle? They're going to, you know what they're going to say. They're going to say we're playing. And, you know, Ron Hainsey is the guy who said to us that, you know, we're not going to compromise their health. And he's going to play a huge role in all of this.

You know, Ron Hainesie was a guy when he played. He always stuck up for what the players had earned. And he always stuck up for that. And so in a lot of ways, he's going to be. an interesting position because he's probably going to be the guy who if it's really bad probably has to say guys this is really bad but I think it's got to be an epic massive almost incomprehensible screw up Kyle for it not to happen because you know what's going to happen when those guys get out there they're going to be like I don't care we're making this work

and that's what they're going to try to do. Yeah, you just got the sense, like, listening to Daily at the start of the week after the session on Monday, I mean, the league obviously doesn't like being caught off guard, doesn't like being put in an uncomfortable spot of we weren't aware of this. And it's clear that's what happened here. Like when Daly said, you know, we weren't aware of this whole rink dimension thing until last week, even if a guy like Doug Armstrong, other particulars that are involved with this tournament knew a little while earlier, NHL does not like being put in those spots. It's just, as you said, disappointed with all of this. And that may not play a factor. Ultimately, it's going to come down

to the players, as you say. But that's been kind of a driver behind some of this narrative here a little bit, too, don't you think? Well, you know what I think it also is? It's not, it's not Kyle only the ice surface it's everything it's the lateness of the construction you know he brought up this is another thing that you kind of when you look back at especially when you look at when you watch the scrum and you look at the facial expression he talks about hockey house right now hockey house is supposed to be their hospitality area like that's big I remember going into Sochi, that was one of the things that the League and the Players Association were really big about. There has to be hospitality.

There has to be somewhere for the players and their families and the officials and the league people and everybody to go and just sit and enjoy each other's company or rest between games, things like that. There had to be something. And they just found out that's not happening either. And we talked about in one of our last pods, Kyle, about how. the owners were given tickets and access to the games. Well, what's the point in going?

One of them said to me, if there's not going to be hospitality, if you're worried about the health of your player on that ice, if the building is going to be bad. You know, one of the other things they're talking about, and this is for all athletes, there's no specialized lanes for people to get to, to go to the venues.

Like, it's like everything you hope to have, during an Olympics, it's not going to be there, it sounds like. Now, I still think it'll be great. And you know, Kyle, we're both going. I'm honored to go. I know I'll go there and I'm going to have a great time. And I expect that when it's over, we'll say this was a great tournament. It was awesome to watch.

It was phenomenal to be here. And I can't believe we're even worried about anything. But I think it's kind of like, you know, if you were, if you were doing a renovation of your house, Kyle, And I will tell everybody listening to this, don't do a home renaos. It's the worst. I will never do that again. But it's like when you go through it and you're promised certain things and it doesn't happen, you're mad. Like you're absolutely furious and you're mad.

And that's what these guys are. They feel they got told one thing and a lot of it didn't happen. So and plus, you know, there are some people who are, we have to do this for the good of the game. But I think those people are kind of in the minority. They're there because the players fought for it and the players wanted to go. Do a lot of people think this is really good? I'm not sure they do. But you made a deal and you have to live up to your deal. And they don't like that this deal they made is looking more and more lopsided at all times. Right. Last thing you want, Jillian Harris showing up saying, look, I know you wanted to redo the bathroom. But

But there's some plumbing issues that we weren't aware of that's going to double the cost of all this. And it's out of your budget now. So it's not going to happen. There are so many stories I could tell you. It's so many. I could do a whole other nine-part pod on my reno. I've still got, I kept all the correspondence. I kept everything.

It was, it was, it was incredible stress. incredible. Yeah. Don't do it. If you're thinking about doing it, don't. Yeah, we went through it growing up a number of years ago, the family home, and I'll just say, you saying that about your experience,

it, anyway, triggers some memories that we can all laugh at now, but at the time you're like, this isn't very good. Okay, well, enough about the negativity around the Olympics, as you say, Elliot. think positive. It's all going to work out and it's going to be wonderful come February. It's going to be great. That's going to be awesome.

What about the hand pass discussion? That is not awesome. I thought we were going to go to Colorado Springs, get to the bottom of it, get it all sorted. Didn't happen. So we had talked about the recent examples leading into this week. And then we saw in Edmonton Tuesday night add Lindy Ruff to the list of coaches that have been and more than willing to call out some of these decisions, the Alex Tuck hand pass that took a goal off the board for the Sabres.

Where do you sit on all of this as of Friday morning? What did Bettman say at the B-O-G? As it goes, however many thousands of plays that are called each year. We play 1,300 games. There's like four-hand passes. I'm not that worried about it. He might not be worried about it, but some other people sure are. Yeah, so there were more this week.

So there are a bunch of coaches, a lot of them. And I think some of the executives are getting into it too. And they feel that there shouldn't be a penalty on a wrong challenge. That the goal should simply be, Get the call right overall and no penalty. Now, I disagree with that, and the reason I disagree with that is because before the league went to this,

coaches were using these as timeouts. Like the momentum of the game would be going out of their way and they'd call for a review, or they'd say, I want to look at this play to see if I can challenge for something, and they would use it to slow down the game. So when coaches get mad that there's a penalty, I say to them,

it's your fault there's a penalty because you guys were using them as timeouts. That said, that said, there are too many calls right now that, look, I watch a lot of hockey. I, as you know, Kyle, I write down plays and I try to, okay, this is, this is the precedence on this one. This is the precedence on this one.

And it changes. And that's not even completely like the situation room's fault. Weird stuff happens that you don't see before and you're like, oh my God, what are they going to do with that one? Or there's other plays that you look at in the past and you say, okay, this is the precedence. And they say, no, this one is slightly different. because of this. Okay. Or there's also that play with Marchand

where the Situation Room can remember a play from two years earlier and they say no, it's this one. And like, wow, like incredible memory, really good. I didn't remember that one. Here's the thing, though, I don't think a coach, especially two days after the Hegel play, and then you look at some of the hand passes this week. Like, I got to tell you, that Alex Tuck one,

I didn't get that one. But when you see that Hegel one, you're challenging hand pass. You're not going to remember Hubert O'Sheron-Govitch play from a year ago, and you're not going to remember it in the 30 seconds that you have to think. And I think there's enough of these plays that are close enough that get ruled differently that I do think a penalty on the first challenge is too punitive. I just, if, like, if these calls were obvious and you could say 100%, that's the ruling here, penalty. But I think a lot of people, and anyone on this podcast, listening to this podcast, can disagree with me if they want.

But there's a lot of people who watch a lot of hockey, their favorite team or a bunch of teams, wherever it is. And you get confused by how close some of these rulings seem or plays seem, but they're ruling. differently. I think they should take it away on the first challenge. I think your first challenge should be a freebie and then start piling up the penalties if you go for two or three. That's what I would do. I think it's too, I don't even want to say inconsistent. I just think that you can look at too many plays and see different interpretations that I don't think you should get a penalty the first time you do it. What do you think? Yeah, I'm willing to hear you out on that one.

I think off-sides, I'm okay keeping it. You're wrong, two minutes. But certain things like this, like misstoppages, goalie interference, if you want to give the first one a free pass, because it's only gotten with more camera angles, with more like super-mo cameras to say that really you can slow the video down and it still remains quite crystal clear where you can see more of what happened or didn't happen.

and can only, as we thought all of this was going to help solve our problems, so many times leaves more to open an interpretation. I'm okay with that. I just... Like every hand passed last week, I think I got it wrong. Every one of them. It just becomes exhausting. It becomes exhausting because...

If I was coaching an NHL team, my team would have been shorthanded 37 times this week. and not we committed no fouls it was it's all bench miners for bad challenges team full of uh lady bing contenders i would lead my team in penalty minutes from the bench jeez yeah it's i i would be open of that i would be i know i like that the offside you're right Offside should be cut and dry. Offside should be cut and dry. You're right.

You blow an offside challenge, penalty. Jail. You go to jail. Jail. Blowing off. And we're not talking to misdemeanor. We're talking about a felony. We're not going to see it for two years.

Yeah. Yeah. Because otherwise, anyway. And I, you know, the whole, well, we should just do away with coaches challengers or go away with Insta replay, like, I don't think that's the answer for a second. Sorry, Kenry, that's not, that's not happening. I know. I know. Kenny, I love, I love the old school thinking. I just think the Pandora's box has been opened. Yeah. And this ain't something you can put back in again. But man, it's just felt like we've taken one giant step back

with all of this, Fridge. And maybe it's just the uniqueness. This typically, they, for whatever reason, come in bunches, whether it's hand-pass, whether it's a slew of head-scratching goalie interference calls. There's usually a whole bunch within 10 days, two weeks, and we're going, where is this all headed? But yes, first challenge, no penalty if you're wrong, that's okay. I just don't know if that's going to do away.

with some of the head scratching we've seen. Like you're still, if the call is, you think, oh, there's no way that can be a hand pass, and then it is. Well, I may not be penalized, but I'm still, my head just exploded because I don't understand the ruling. It's no easy answer here. No easy answer here. I think we just gave them one. What's that? An easy answer.

Yeah, but I still don't think it solves the problem. There's too much nuance with all of this. All right, before we get to the final thought, I wanted to shout out, have you ever been to Matthews Arena, home of the Northeastern University Hussein? I've walked by it. I've been around it,

but I've never been in it. 115-year-old building, the oldest multipurpose athletic facility in the world, open in April of 1910. Before Fenway Park in Boston, I think it was really the first indoor arena in the area. And you could probably circle it back to, you know, why did Massachusetts kind of become one of the main hockey hotbeds in the United States? It was because of this arena being one of the first theirs. It was the original home of the Bruins and the Celtics way back when, as I say, now home to Northeastern University,

the Huskies, men's and women's hockey teams, the men's basketball team. The final game, building is going to be torn down here starting in 2026. The final game is being played there this Saturday, Northeastern versus Boston University. Great rivalry game, great way to wrap it up. They've been having some legacy nights, some throwback nights in the weeks leading up to Saturday, just to honor the history and everything that's gone on in that building over the last 115 years. But wanted to shout that out.

What a run for Matthews Arena, Elliot. Kyle, great tribute. Great tribute. That's well said. I don't have anything to add to that. Great tribute. Also, a beanpot tournament. First born at that arena and now has become a staple in the area, as you know, every year.

One of the great traditions in college hockey as well. So I hope everyone has a great night there on Saturday. One final goodbye to Matthews Arena. Okay, let's get to the final. Final thought here, Elliot, so as you say, you've had a busy week. We were in Colorado Springs to start. And then on Tuesday, you and I drove back along with Eric Engels to the airport. That was the longest part of the week. Yeah. I went home. You went to Washington to spend some time with Tom Wilson of the Washington capitals and maybe of Team Canada come February. What were your takeaways from your brief visit? in the U.S. Capitol.

Well, the idea behind this story, Kyle, is that four or five years ago, six years ago, even though he was a Stanley Cup champion, if you would have said that Tom Wilson would be in the conversation, not only for the Olympic team, but the Four Nations team, he went deep down the list of that squad two. People would have thought you were nuts. They would have said, no way that guy will never be any. we're close to an Olympic team. And here we are.

He's very much in the mix and may make the team. And, you know, we just wanted to go talk to him about it. And I want to leave most of it to the show on Saturday and the YouTube version that will come out. But one of the things we talked to him about was I think the Canadian fans, their biggest question is, the standard is different in international hockey than it is in the NHL. Their biggest question is, what happens if you do something that costs Canada a penalty at the worst time? That's their concern.

And he had an answer for it, and his teammates had an answer for it. And I'll say this, you know, one of the things that really stood out to me was, you know, when the capitals heard we were coming and we talked to them about it, everybody wanted to talk like Chris Patrick their GM wanted to talk Spencer Carberry wanted to talk Alexander Ovechkin wanted to talk John Carlson wanted to talk as a matter of fact we had to leave the practice facility to go set up at the place we were going to go to the interview which was

right downtown in Washington DC and John Carlson had to get treatment and his treatment was at a time where we're like, we can't wait for him. We're going to have to leave. And Carlson rearranged his schedule to come talk about Wilson. And I asked him about that. He said, well, I'm happy to talk up any of my teammates who are up for anything. And you know that doesn't always happen, Kyle, like these athletes, they've got rigid schedules and we get it. But he moved it around because he wanted to talk about Wilson a bit.

And, you know, Carlson said something very very. very interesting. He said a lot of the stuff that used to happen with Wilson was when he wasn't as counted on as he is now. He said that when you look back and take a look at some of the bad incidents of Wilson's career, they were when he was maybe a 10-minute player or 12-minute player or he wasn't one of the cornerstone players of the team.

Like when they won the Stanley Cup, obviously played a role, but it was Ovechkin, it was Baxter, it was Kuznetsov, it was Carlson, it was Orpick, it was Holtby, you know, Oshy, it was Oshy, thank you for bringing that up, Oshy, I can't believe I forgot him. Now, Wilson, you know, what do you want to say? He's the second most important skater on the team after Ovechkin. And so he said that he learned, as we counted on him more and asked him to do more things, he started doing fewer things that got him in trouble. And that was the kind of line he used to say

why he thinks Wilson would be fine in international competition. So, I mean, it's interesting. The other thing, too, it's pretty clear, Kyle, that whenever the Ovechkin leaves and we're in the post-Ovechkin era, it's a very good chance Tom Wilson is going to be the next captain of the team. Hmm. And I didn't realize that.

Maybe people who know the capitals better than I do thought that. I would have assumed it would have been Carlson, but I had people say to me that it's going to be Wilson. So we talked about a few things. And, you know, I'll say this. He doesn't run away from anything. And he had some good answers on some things, some things that kind of surprised me a bit. So I enjoyed the interview.

I understand that, you know, he's a polarizing guy and, you know, some people are not going to like him. That's fine. Everybody's entitled to their opinion. But I just really wanted to do the story because I think of all the players who are, have a shot at being on Team Canada, he's the most unique. He's the most different. He's the most, he's got the most debate about him. good or bad and I wanted to talk to him about it by the way the place we did the interview at was called ned's club it's a private club in dc right near the white house holy cow was that

beautiful nice staff beautiful we've seen some beautiful things this week the broadmore beautiful hotel and really nice staff this ned's club same deal really beautiful place really nice staff if the ned's club people notice that they're missing one small notebook, a pen and a can of mints, it's because I took it. A can of mints. I know you always go for the pens. Like a tin. A tin.

Oh, okay. A tin. Yeah. All right. Not a can. A tin. Yeah. But the pens you always go for.

Yeah. I'm a pen thief. I'm a pen thief. Yes. I will say, that's one thing I've always respected about Wilsa. Yes, there's been times where he's crossed the line with how he's caught guys out an open ice but as you said he's never run from a line of questioning he's always been there to answer what's been thrown at him good or bad i'll tell you a funny story okay that uh so someone

said to me i'm not going to say what the player was we'll save it for the piece but there was a guy that Wilson could have hit, and he didn't, and he was kind of, he had a good explanation about why he didn't do it. Oh, all right. Because he's not normally one to, well, totally let up, so you got me curious. Different man. All right. Different man. All right. Stay tuned for that on Saturday on hockey night and, yeah, he posted in its entirety on YouTube as well. Okay, that was the final thought. Why don't we take our first break of the pod? Come back with the thought line and lots more. You're listening to 32 thoughts of the podcast. All right, welcome back. Time to decompress with the thought line. Elliot, so I'm working at Rinkside, Calgary, Detroit on Wednesday night. I have to

tell you, there are a lot of podcast listeners that reside in the foothills of Alberta. A lot of podcast comments as I'm sitting in my position near the concourse there. Someone was asking about your teats even. That hasn't gone away and whether they were erect or not. So it was good. It was good. It helped make the night go by.

I always said Alberta was full of great people. Always, always, always. You did not. You did not. I've heard myself say it many times. Okay. In your own head. Fots on the thought line here, pal.

What do you got? All right. I've got a few. Yeah, let's go to them because, as usual, we got some really good notes. First of all, this one's a bit out of left field, but I wanted to read it. It's from a gentleman by the name of Joe on Instagram. and he writes, As a hockey connoisseur,

figure you'd appreciate the sad end of an era in our small hockey world niche. I'm a St. Paul Johnson High School graduate in Minnesota. This is the same school that, among great historical hockey names, Herb Brooks attended. After more than 100 years with a team, this will be the first season without one as the school was absorbed into a citywide team

due to declining athlete numbers. High school hockey still holds a special place in our state, and though things have definitely changed, numerous collegiate players came out of the school, which won four state titles. Many of my best memories come from playing at the school, including participating in the first outdoor hockey day in Minnesota game, posting a shutout when we hosted Hockey Day in Minnesota two years later,

and upsetting the top team in our section as an agency. seed my senior year. My old coach, Moose Younghands, deserves a special shout-out for keeping the team alive as long as he did. So that was apropos of nothing we discussed in the podcast, but Joe took the time to write, and I wanted to shout that out because it's a great, great note. Sad note, but a great note and deserved to be recognized. Okay. From Sunset, A.m. Azora, whose real name is Mika. Hey, Elliot, there's been a lot of talk about the Olympic ice rink, and I thought I could share maybe my perspective as a European hockey and also Olympics fan.

The recent discussions about it in the North American media has been frustrating to follow, even felt a little disrespectful sometimes. There's been a lot of talk about the ring size, and I've heard the NHL size being referred to as normal rink size, not from you, which I appreciate. Well, Mika, I'm the only smart one around here. I understand that one of the conditions the NHL put forth to allow their players to go was to have the rink be NHL size. I have to admit that I and many of my fellow European hockey fans

don't entirely understand why the rest of the world has to conform to one league's preferences when the double IHF has ring-size parameters that all other leagues make use of. To now hear the discussions about ring size feels a little, well, hypocritical maybe. All other players at the Olympics, who have actually taken part in recent games as well, already had to get used to a different ring size. Why can the NHL players not get used to a different ring size as well? Aren't they the best in the world? I do hope this does not come across as just a complaint.

I genuinely wish to share my perspective as a European fan as I haven't heard talk of it yet. Cheers, Mika. Well, Mika, you heard, if you've listened to the first half of the pot already, you know that Kyle and I discussed some of this coming out of the Board of Governors where it was the most newsworthy of topics. I don't think it's anything about disrespect. I mean, I'll admit, Mika, I prefer hockey played on the North American ice. I think the wider European ice leads to fewer chances, less offense.

You're free to disagree with me. Maybe it's just because I've grown up with it and I'm used to it. This is what I like and prefer. I think it just comes down to, in this case, the complaints or concerns as they are, are just that there was a promise given. It didn't happen. It caught people by surprise, some people. And also just the overall situation with the rink, it's led to concerns and complaints.

So I don't think anyone's trying to insult European hockey fans. It's more like, this is what we were expecting. A lot of things aren't being delivered. And that's why people are so upset. Yeah, very good. From Francois LeBlanc. Hi, reporter for Radio Canada in Moncton. Hello, Francois.

I just heard on your podcast that you didn't understand. why the hand pass was permitted in the defensive zone. I read somewhere the rule was implemented to give more flow to the game. It was suggested by a former player and broadcaster, Gilles Tromble, from La Suarez to Aquee at Radio Canada, because the players were using the hand pass to stop play when in trouble. I couldn't find the story on the internet, but it was in his biography written by Guy Robillard.

Hope it helps. Francois, thank you for writing, and you are right on. I was reminded about that at the Board of Governors meeting this week. The reason they did that was because under pressure, defensemen or players in the defensive zone would hit the puck with their hand. And rather than creating another stoppage, they simply said we'll allow it to happen there. And finally, the last one, Rick Hines.

Kyle, I would tell you to pay close attention to this one. Hey, Freed, just a quick thought. I find it curious that everyone loves to jump all over you for pronouncing it Detroit. Yes, they do. But no one ever makes a peep about the fact that Kyle always says Eastern, as in the Eastern Conference, interesting. Oh, I've never even thought about that. Don's laughing, but he knows he's listening to this many, many time going through the editing. Well, like you have leaned into Detroit, I will lean into Eastern.

Well, Rick, you made Tom happy. For a change, this podcast will now be well edited. That's right. Rick's made the biggest contribution in this show in six months. That's really good. I like that. All right. Here's what I've got, Fridge.

That was a very good rundown. Thoughts on a thought line. Good, good comments and questions this week. Yes. So we start with Kevin from Perth, Australia. Oh, all right. Not boring old Perth, Ontario, but exotic Perth, Australia. Okay.

It says, good afternoon. My time, not yours. From the opening of your last podcast, wanted to let you know that you are international superstars. I am an Australian-born and bred in Perth, Western Australia, I regularly listen to and thoroughly enjoy the podcast. I currently play goalie in the Perth Recreational Ice Hockey Club, which is the best beer league on Earth. There is a strong hockey community here in Perth and all across Australia. keep up the good work 32 thoughts live tour down under oh i would do that in a second we're going in a second come on tourism australia where are you that's awesome thanks kevin i would love to go watch

a perth rec ice hockey club beer league game yes that sounds like great entertainment great All in. Okay. Ian from Rangley, Maine. Greetings, Kyle Elliott, Dom, and Griffin from Rangley, Maine. Being the holidays and the scuttlebutt around New Jersey and Quinn Hughes, I got to thinking, with all the siblings in and around the NHL, are there any rules specifically governing families and tampering? Does the Hughes family have to make an extra plate for the NHL official

that comes to police tampering at their Christmas dinner. Does said official have to bring a side dish? Seems like it would be easy enough for the brothers to talk about their, quote, week at work and, quote, the boss looking to make a, quote, outside hire. Does the NHL send a lines person to sit between Braden and Luke Shen at their holiday get together? Appreciate the pot and happy holidays to you and your families and all the families out there who love this great game. Avs go. That was pretty good. That's very good. Could you imagine, sorry, the devils are not guilty of tampering

because the NHL official forgot the fruit cake, ergo they cannot be penalized. Sitting around the dinner table all of a sudden the arm goes up. Like, hold on, we cannot talk about that here. According to Kanox fans and media, if Jack and Luke Hughes are at Christmas dinner, and they refer to Tom Fitzgerald as Fitsy, Quinn must refer to him as Tom. Yes. Or else fines implemented. Heavy heavy fines. It's a great question.

I think they would be subject to the same tampering rules as anybody else. Not that it's ever going to happen. Not that it's ever going to happen. There technically are rules. Not that we expect to see them. Put in practice. Yes. Okay.

Valerie from Atlanta. Hey, Canadians. As a lifelong thrashers fan, yes, every day since 2011, too, I have been excited to hear the biannual rumors about my city retaking its rightful spot in the league. However, I was blown away when you mentioned expansion costs hitting. $2 billion. When the Atlanta and Houston rumors started a few years back, the ceiling for expansion cost was said to be around $1 billion. Now, without adding any new team since,

the price has somehow doubled? Can you explain the price of expansion why it's so high and why it continues to rise? Thank you. Happy Hanukkah to Elliot and hope to see the new Atlanta team beat the breaks off of Winnipeg sooner rather than later. That's funny words, Valerie. That's pretty funny. Thank you very much, Valerie.

Happy Hanukkah to you and anybody else who might be celebrating. It begins this weekend right ahead of the rest of the holiday season and Christmas season. Okay, so it's a, you know what, it's a really good question. I just think that what happens, Valerie, is that you take a look at what teams get sold for, right? and in the last couple of years, Pittsburgh went for about 900 million and Ottawa went for 900 million and then Tampa Bay went for almost double that

in the neighborhood of 1.8 billion. And if you're going to have expansion, what you are absolutely not going to do, Valerie, is undercut the value of your current franchises. So if Tampa is the last team to be sold and it's sold in the neighborhood of $1.8 billion, your expansion franchise is not going to be less than that. I think that's the easiest and the simplest way to explain it. The whole idea of expansion is to make it so that it pumps up the value of your league.

If you put a team there for less than a price than other people has sold their teams for, it doesn't make your teams more valuable. It makes them less valuable. So that's why the numbers in the $2 billion range. That's the easiest and shortest way for me to answer it. Yeah, very good. And like whenever Forbes comes out with franchise values or when it comes out elsewhere, I mean, Gary Bettman is often one to say he still feels those numbers are lower than they should be,

which I suppose that's a commissioner vouching for his franchises, but it's thought it would be interesting to point that out. He's supposed to pump up his league. Supposed to pump up his league. That's his job. Okay, voicemail next. Here's Carl from Detroit. Hey, 32 thoughts, guys.

Carl from Detroit, Michigan, calling in. We had a pretty interesting circumstance happen in the Wings' breaking game this past Saturday. Emmett Finney, Nate Danielson, and Axel Sandin' Pellica, all three rookies combined on a goal. for the Red Wings. If that wasn't interesting enough, all three are from the same draft class. So my question is, there have been other instances

of three rookies from the same draft class combining on a goal in their rookie season? Thanks, and keep up to good work. So let me just say first of all. That is a great question. Great question. Griffin Porter says there were north of 20 submissions. just about that goal.

Are you serious? Alone over the last three days. Yes. Wow. Yes. First of all, thank you for everybody who submitted. And it is kind of funny that we pick the one submission. And I say this in good humor, Carl, not to make fun of you.

But we picked the one submission that butchered the name Cracken. It's the Cracken. and Detroit at 7eastern on SportsNet Plus. I would almost think after that you did it on purpose. Kyle, that was brilliant. That's the smartest thing I've ever heard you do. Okay, so off the top of my head, I would have no idea. Like the only thing I could even think of that popped into my mind was did the Siddines play with another rookie from their draft class in Vancouver?

That's the only thing I could think of. Right. So here's what I have. This was a combo effort between sports net stats and NHL stats because it's such a unique find. So what I can tell you is that goal that Emmett Finney scored, assists to Danielson and Sandy Pelica last Saturday, 10th instance in the history of the league. Yeah. 10th.

It had three rookies from the same draft class combined on the same goal. The last time it happened. Give me a team in the year. Okay. It was December of 2006. Okay. And it was a goal for the Philadelphia Flyers.

so that would have to be 2006 would that be Jeff Carter Mike Richards and I'm trying to think of who the third rookie would be so I'm impressed how warm you are you've got the right draft year wrong players really

Yeah, because if you think about it, Mike Richards and Jeff Carter They'd already been in the NHL by that time? It should have been their second year in the league, yep. Ah, okay, let me think about this. Let me think about this. Scotty Upshaw? No.

Was Braden Coburn a rookie back then? Oh, but he wasn't acquired until later. Never mind. He was on that team, but they traded for him. Who are we talking about? All right. The three names. It was a goal from Ryan Patolny. Oh, God. Okay. Assisted by Stefan Ruzitska.

Uh-huh. And Alexan Picard. So not only, yeah, not only were they all from the 2003 draft class for the Flyers, They were all taken in the third round by the Flyers that year. They had five third round picks in 2003. First of all, let me just give credit to SportsNet stats and NHL stats for even figuring it that out. Like that is, people joke about finding a needle in a haystack. That's not even a needle in a haystack.

That's an ion in a haystack to put that out of there. That is fantastic work. Wow. You know what? No offense to any of those guys. You could have had me guessing for 30 years I wouldn't have gotten that. Right. Yeah.

I mean, Rizizska played 55 games. Picard played 253, Patoni, 126. Yeah, these guys were eight dollars. They were around. They were around. Played pro hockey a long time. But I mean, I'm not even sure all of them would have been... they definitely weren't all regulars with the flyers that season.

So only adding to the uniqueness that the three of them combined on a goal at one point. I actually can't believe it happened 10 times. I thought you were going to tell me it happened like three times. Right. And there's a few other people wondering if that had happened with the wings before. That was the first time in Detroit franchise history. Okay. That happened.

Wow. call the thought line someone solves all your problems might not be me but somebody does it but somebody does it okay a couple more here brock from cambridge ontario hello mr friedman and friends hey look at that yes that's it brock that's the way to go i'm a 25 year old sabers fan yes you read that right I'm going to direct this question to you since you know the rulebook like the back of your hand. I'm not so sure about that. I'm sitting here on Tuesday night watching the Sabers play in Edmonton. With Colton Ellis being run into and having to go down the tunnel back to the dressing room,

that leaves Alex Lyon to take over the net. If Lion ends up getting hurt, would the Sabres have to use an ebug? Or is there a special rule in place? Call it these Sabres indecisive rule since we always seem to have three goalies now. now, where if a team does have three goleys on the roster, would the NHL goalie and Ouka Pekulukinen need to put down his hot dog and rush to the dress room, or would it be a different

e-bug? Definitely unique circumstance. They could have used Lukinen as the e-bug, but it was wild because he wasn't allowed to come to the bench, right? Right. Got to wait in the room. He had to wait in the room. So, yes, like, Lukinen was getting ready. he was getting ready and he would have been the e-bug. I mean, this was a crazy week for this.

I was watching, I don't know if you were watching, Kyle, but I got home, or I didn't go home. I went to Washington on Tuesday night after the Board of Governors, and I got there in time to watch the end of that Nashville, Colorado game where Wedgwood got taken out by the concussion spotter. Yes. And, like, it's, these are crazy situations that nobody even thinks about beforehand, but Luchanan could have been the e-buck. Yes, that was possible. Yeah, that was another one. We got some submissions on this week, too, was Wedge would be removed from the shootout.

And don't forget that that was changed in the new CBA, in the sense that you're going to be able to allow to have someone who can stay with you all the time so that you don't have to use the local ebug. You'll be able to use your own team's personal eB. e-bug, where you can, you know, give a goalie the day off or something like that if you're practicing, especially on the road. Okay.

One final one here. I thought this was cute. Hillary from Montreal. Hi, Dom, Kyle, and Elliott. In no particular order, read into that way you will. After listening to Monday's episode and hearing about Elliot losing a relationship based on a bad gift he gave, I propose we open the thought line for submissions on what it could have been? Was it a re-gifted pet rock? A chia pet? A year-long subscription to raccoon

wrangling for beginners. The possibilities are truly endless. Thanks for all the work you do and the fine folks at Sportsnet Stats in creating this podcast and let's go Red Wings. A lot of Red Wings content today. Hillary, it was none of that. First of all, thanks to all the people who sent me the S&L skit of Colin Jost and the drunk raccoon from Weekend Update last weekend. I got about 20 of those. It was pretty funny. Hillary, I'm embarrassed to say that it was not anything you suggested. It was worse. And I did get asked about this a couple times by people I know, like, what was the gift? And I told the story privately. And they were like, oh, my God, like, what is wrong with you?

And I simply say I messed up. As I told Kyle last week, I will not tell this on the podcast because what you do in that situation is you sort of bring somebody else into it. It kind of could identify who the person was, and I'm not doing that. I sign up for this. I am a public figure. The stuff I say on this, you dish it out, you got to take it. not everybody else signs up for it.

So I'm going to keep it quiet and just keep my embarrassment to myself. That's all. Oh, I can tell you, it's just killing you inside, having to keep it bottled up. No, it's actually not killing me. What kills me is I actually did it. Like, it was just not one of my finer moments. There's things in your life you would go back and you would do again. This is one of those things I would go back and I would do again.

Oh, it's a great effort, Hillary. I appreciate at least trying, laying it out that way. That was very well done. Okay, that's a good way to wrap it there. For this edition of the Thoughtline, 1833-3-3-1-321-32 is the number to call if you'd like to leave a voicemail, or you can leave an email at 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca.

We'll take one final break and wrap up this edition of 32 Thoughts, the podcast, after this. Okay, before we go, an in-season Cup update, the Colorado Avalanche. Amazingly, it's taken until almost midway through December, but they finally are the rightful owners of the in-season Cup for the first time this season. Kind of strange, top team in the NHL. But anyway, that's life of the in-season cup. You never know when your opportunity is going to come.

They scooped it up from the Florida Panthers on Thursday night. My Colorado Avalanche, they are carrying it for me into Saturday against Elliot's Nashville Predators. Elliot, still leading the charge with 26 accumulated days. I've moved into second at 19. Emily Agar, hanging around at 17, and Randeep Janda, still trying to get started in build some real momentum, no longer at zero, but sitting at five. So once again, thanks to podcast listener, Luke, who last week suggested we do these updates a little more frequently.

We'll try to stay on top of that as the year motors on. Looking ahead to this Saturday and Hockey Night in Canada, Hockey Central Saturday, gets you started, as always, at 6.30 Eastern, 3.30 Pacific, Ron McLean and the gang, teeing up three early games this weekend. should be a beauty in Toronto. Connor McDavid and the Oilers are in town. The Canadians are on Broadway to face the Rangers, and Washington is in Winnipeg.

One late game this Saturday, the Calgary Flames are in Los Angeles. Darcy Kemper, King's Backstop is this week's guest on After Hours with Scott Oak and Eric Francis of Sportsnet.com. We'll be joining Scott on After Hours this week. Taking us out today, a track from Butes, who craft luminous, emotionally rich indie rock rooted in the in-between, those later coming-of-age moments when the party fades, life takes new shape,

and meaning is found in the quiet middle. The Halifax Five Piece built on a confident, melodic world of their pandemic-era LP, dalliance with their new album, Marigolds, which shimmers with textured guitars, retro synths, anchoring low-end, and Jeff Lawton's warm, winsome vocals. From the new wave pulse of lead single Cave to the friendship-fueled closer, boys have been away. Butes find clarity and uncertainty and beauty in the gray. You can see them live in the new year at the Seahorse in Halifax on January 24th.

And you can find this song on our Spotify playlist, 32 Thoughts, The Music. Here is Butes with Cave on 32 Thoughts the podcast. Have a great weekend. lakes cool the fog won't blow the weekend chasing the big laughs you're scared it's fun tonight to love I love it Lay your body down our shoes found in the corner or grab who you can without too much smelling

And giving It's not running It's not running. Don't care. It's okay Because if it's gone Because if it's gone I won't be gone for you

Because if it's gone, because if it's gone, Thank you.