32 Thoughts: The Podcast - If You Give Us The Runway

Episode Date: April 19, 2021

The Vancouver Canucks played their first game in almost a month. Jeff and Elliotte discuss (00:00) what the victory against the Maple Leafs might mean for the team, the leadership of Bo Horvat, what was said in the locker room during the 2nd intermission, and the impressive play of Braden Holtby. Debra Berman, National Stylist […]

Hang on, Deb, what is your Instagram handle? It's Debra Berman Wardrobe. Okay, let's set the scene here. Let's set the stage as they say, Elliot. We're recording this podcast late Sunday night. You've just come back from working hockey night in Canada, the Vancouver Canucks and the Toronto Maple Leafs in what has to be considered the best of all possible endings, although it's really not an ending,

to this Vancouver Canucks drama that everybody, most notably Vancouver and the players themselves, have been going through the last three weeks. As you're sitting there in the studio, okay, because watching it on television here in my office, the minute that it dawned on me when I first said, Vancouver's going to win this thing, is when Braden Holtby did the Dominic Hasek role on Wayne Simmons and kept that puck out. I said, Vancouver's totally winning this thing.

What was it like with you guys in studio? You know, Toronto scored early. Jimmy Veseyc the former leaf had a pass intercepted nylander breaking it on the wing shot scores welcome back willie styles as the leafs open the scoring on a goal from nylander and then they got that power play and even though their power play is brutal i thought maybe this was going to end eight two yeah like you just saw it sliding away and we showed in the first intermission antoine russell had a fantastic shift to start that penalty kill but they just looked tired like there was one shift where jt

miller who was one of the guys who didn't get covid who had a minute long shift and couldn't get off the ice you looked at them and you said, there's no way they're going to be able to stay with them. Leafs counterattacking now. Have numbers as they get across the line. Nylander in for Matthews. Scores! 2-0.

You think, okay, Toronto's going to be fine. Hyman gets hurt. You still think they're going to be fine. And then... Nylander sends it the other way. Here's Horvat. Partial break. Down the left wing.

Oh, Horvat shoots and scores! When it was 2-1 in the third and Holtby started making even more and more ridiculous saves... Leaves for Joe Thornton. Left circle to the back door. Riley with a one-timer. Robbed by Holtby again across to his left. Marner in alone to the backhand.

He's stopped by Holtby as Hughes pressured him on the back check as well. Back in front to Simmons, Deeks, and what a save by Holtby! A windmill stop as he was lying on his back with his pads in the air and kicked it out. Covered it up. It's still 2-1. I cannot believe it. 9.05 left in the third, and Brandon Holtby continues to shine tonight in Vancouver. I just had this feeling that the Canucks were starting to believe that they might actually be able to do this.

And one of the things I heard was, in the second intermission, they were talking, it's 2-1, we're in this game. If we would have known that we would have been in the game at 2-1 after 2, we would have taken it. You know, I think that's when they really began to sit there and say, you know, we could win this. And when they tied it 2-2. Here's Horvat, left circle, Jalen Chatfield threw it to the goal and they score! Niels Hoaglander! A greasy goal from Niels Hoaglander as he shovels it past Jack Campbell in the crease. And the Canucks have tied the game at two with 7.57 left in the third.

I thought, holy smokes, these guys are going to win it. And then the Marner... I'm not sure how the Leafs didn't score. It's emphatically waved off at the side of the goal by Graham's skilleter. Although Marner's trying to argue that it snuck across the goal line and the officials might be having a look at this one, Hershey, with 19.1 seconds left in the third period. Marner seems convinced that it was in. Yeah, I'm not sure it's the chance that Matthews gets. I think it's the chance that Marner gets that hits Holtby in the back. I mean, I don't think they had an angle that showed the puck was in.

But I tell you, I really thought, Jeff, going into overtime, that Toronto was going to win it. And they scored. I mean, incredible. Incredible. In their first game since March 24th, after the majority of the team tested positive for COVID-19. Bo Horvat wins it in overtime, his second of the game, 16th of the year, and the Canucks

knock off the top team in the North. Unbelievable. I'm speechless, Brendan. If you didn't think that Bo Horvat was all character, heart, and leadership, well, you learned tonight that he is. Two goals and an assist. The overtime winner here, he gets a pass from Tyler Myers and fires down that far side.

He beat Jack Campbell earlier in the game. Blocker side low on a breakaway. He goes blocker side again. Back to the well, and it goes through the armpit of Jack Campbell and into the net. And the impossible has happened. Canucks. 3-2 winners in overtime on a goal by Bo Horvat.

I look at a couple things, and both of them are Holtby. There's the Hashek roll on Wayne Simmons. And then when Holtby stops Marner on the breakaway shorthanded, like that to me just like there's no way the Maple Leafs are winning this thing. I just thought they would have been so tired going into overtime in Toronto with all of its high octane offense and three on three I I just thought it lined up better for Toronto and OT that's what I thought wow but I was wrong what did what did everyone in the studio think we couldn't believe it like it was you know the

thing is we were we were talking like a lot of Toronto fans on social media were talking about this is like the heirs game. And, you know, a couple of us were actually talking about that. Did it remind you of the heirs game? No, because this one, like this one was still like, the Maple Leafs are controlling the whole game. It's just Braden Holpe won't let it happen. Yeah, I agree.

The Leafs are dominating the Vancouver Canucks. Bless them. They, I agree. The Leafs are dominating the Vancouver Canucks. Bless them. They're hanging on. They're put together like MacGyver style with toothpaste and toothpicks. Yeah. And it's all Will. And there's like some guys are pushing off. And there's, well, no power in that stride.

Maybe it's time for a line change. Like, I don't know, man. It was just like. I agree with you. Holdby dragged them into the fight tonight. Totally. And then the rest of them caught up. And you know who did too?

To me, the errors game was all about Carolina as a team playing defense. No. That was a masterclass. That Carolina third period. Yes, it was. Sure it was. Okay. Okay.

Yeah. But I really thought that when Toronto lit up errors early in that game they thought it was going to be easy and they let off the gas yes carolina shut them down but i think that was also a self-inflicted toronto performance i didn't think this was a self-inflicted toronto performance i thought they played really well and holtby stoned them. And then the Canucks, and you know, I'll tell you this, two other guys who deserve a lot of credit are Hamannik and Myers. Myers takes a lot of criticism in that city. He was a beast.

He played 13 minutes in the second period. He was a beast. You know, Kevin BX did a really good thing in the, in the post game pointing out how tyler myers had the one option in that overtime to force a pass the horvat but didn't and then chose to exit the zone quick little regroup in the neutral zone and it springs as muzzin goes for a little bit of a out of position skate and that totally springs bo

horvat it's a great play by tyler myers it's a wonderful play by tyler myers like that's that's great um also coming out of that game was the hit on zach hyman yeah what did you make of it to me it looked like a tired hockey player making a lazy play alex edler it was he was on the end of a three minute shift and you know i think he did make a lazy play but it has enormous consequences you know edler has been suspended twice in his career but it's been a long time eight years ago but you know somebody who used to work with team canada sent me video of eric stall in the 2013 Championships. And that was a knee injury to Stahl, a knee-on-knee play. And as a matter of fact, Edler was suspended for the first two games of the Sochi Olympics

because Sweden was out before the full run of that suspension in the Worlds the previous year. I generally agree with you. He was on the ice for three minutes, and he was trying to get off, and he was beat. And he did what he shouldn't have done. I think it's a hugely impactful play in Toronto's season. Tavares said post-game that Hyman seemed optimistic. I mean, I don't know. It's huge.

If Hyman is out for a significant period of time, that's a major, loss of the toronto maple that is devastating okay so wanted to talk about the vancouver canucks a lot on this podcast we should mention as well coming up on the podcast you will hear from someone that we all to a person rave about at our shop and that is debor Berman. She's the national stylist for Rogers. We wanted to do something fun and different here. Well, yeah,

we wanted to like last week was all trade deadline and serious and furrowed brow. And you're going to get all that kind of stuff here. Trust me, I'm going to drag it all out of free chair, but I want to have more fun this week. So we had like a really nice conversation and an intriguing conversation, interesting conversation.

And we're actually able to get some, some pretty interesting stuff out of Deb Berman. A lot of stuff that I didn't know. And I think that it's going to make listeners really curious and interested. So stay tuned for Deborah coming up here in a couple of moments. But Vancouver. Okay, I want to ask you then what this means for the Vancouver Canucks right now. Okay, I want to ask you then what this means for the Vancouver Canucks right now and whether you have a sense of how tightly knit this team is. If at all, I don't know.

I'm not there. Because you saw the celebration at the end, and it's Beau Horvat, and he's the guy on Saturday that was saying, like, hey, don't count us out. We're not going to be the squash match here. We're in there to compete and win this hockey game, and he's the guy that wins it in there to compete and win this hockey game. And he's the guy that wins it in overtime.

Like, it's a wonderful hockey moment. It's a great end to this story on this, you know, in this very troubled time on this weekend where we all have a whole bunch of questions and concerns. It's a great finish. Good on Bo Horvat. But is this a close-knit team or is this one of those teams that's like 23 guys calling 23 ubers at the end of a game you can tell that it's changed since the 1985 boston red sox right

because it's not 25 guys 25 cabs it's 25 guys 25 ubers yeah you know i think that's a great question you know i i really believe that a situation like this, what it does, Jeff, is it adds to what you already are. Okay. I think if you're a low character group, you fall apart. If you're a high character group, you find a way. And one of the things I talked about in the postgame is that if you're an elite level athlete if you play just one game in the nhl but you're an elite level athlete male or female in anything or in a lot of ways an elite level person in anything you do you have enormous pride in your work like you think of all the challenges and all the stresses some people were really sick some people's families were really sick. There's a lot of built-in excuses there for things

not to work. But as Holtby stood on his head and the confidence grew, I think what you saw is a lot of people who their competitive pride really came out. And when your best players compete like Holtby did, like Horvat did, those defensemen, especially when Edler was out of the game. I was watching Green do this with his D and Nolan Baumgartner, the coach, and it's your first game in 24 days and you're basically down to three defensemen. But just watching Myers and Hamannik and Hughes, just the way they, they took the minutes, you know, 25 to 30 minutes each. I think it, it, it drags you into the fight. And, you know, what it says to me is that there's a lot of character there, you know, who knows what's going to happen for

here on in, maybe they run out of steam. I don't know, but they had a lot of excuses to fall apart, including a lot of belief, Jeff, that they obviously weren't very happy with the way some of the things had gone. So I think it would have been very easy for them to fall apart and give up at points in that game. What it says to me is that you have a group of really high character players. And if they get reason to believe they can win, they're going to push for it and they're going to drive to it. So let me ask you this then, in light of that, and I don't want to go over the minutia of last week.

We have some distance now and we have a game in between it. But as you look back without again without going through every tiny little detail yeah how do you feel about what happened last week or maybe have you had a chance to really think about in a new way now what happened last week well you know obviously the players were right to say they needed a couple more days you know i think there were a couple things that came up you know i i now believe i don't know how serious it was jeff but i i i now believe it at least was discussed from the players like do we have to play 56 games could we play i don't know i'm throwing a number out there 51 or something like that i don't know how seriously it was discussed, but I think it was kind of thrown

out there just as an option. But I think they were clearly right to say, as they did to the Players Association, we'll be okay if we get a couple extra days. And I think where it went sideways, and this is where I think some of the frustration came from is I think the league, the Players Association, and the Canucks, along with their medical staff, had discussed the likelihood that they weren't going to know if they were going to play on Friday until they went through all their medicals on Thursday. As part of the protocols, when you come out of the COVID reserve list, you have to pass a mandatory post-COVID exam.

And it's basically a physical, and it's also testing on your heart, the ECGs, the electrocardiograms, all of that stuff. And from what I understand, the League and the Players Association, they felt that it was understood that Friday was no guarantee until Thursday. But for whatever reason, that was not explained clearly enough to the players. And so the players are sitting here saying, we're going to play in two days, really? So when Miller said what he said. You know, we try to talk about the number one priority

is players' health and their family's safety. And this is, it's almost impossible to achieve that with what they've asked us to do here on our return so like i said i can't speak on behalf of the guys that have had covid but i've talked to my teammates a lot and this hasn't been obviously that easy there's different different for everybody and i'm gonna try to come back and play like i just talked to is going to be very challenging and and not very safe if you're asking me and i'm sure that there's other people that would agree with that.

I think the reaction in some other circles was, wait a sec, why is this being said? Because aren't the players supposed to recognize that we're not going to be making this decision until tomorrow? And Matthew Schneider from the NHLPA was on with David Amber in our pregame and he basically said the same thing so you know that's why i think things kind of happened the way they did i think the communication broke down and there was a lot of frustration about the fact that communication broke down

like imagine the players being frustrated not getting that message properly and what you're thinking while most of you are battling illness and coming out of it and your families are doing the same thing so i totally understand the frustration of the players and now i have a better understanding of the frustration from outside because they thought this was all agreed to so i think that's why it kind of blew up the way it did but i think what it proved is the message from the players was right. You give us a couple extra days and, you know, we're going to be okay here. And that's what happened on Sunday night.

Do you have a sense of how close-knit, if at all, this Vancouver Canucks team is? And I ask you this because, you know, you watch the game and you watch the overtime and Bo Horvat scores and he's the guy the day before that said, we're not going to be a pushover. And it does seem like one of those galvanizing moments. But that's just what you see on television after a win. That's a pretty big emotional hockey reaction that all those players have.

We've seen some teams that are legitimately like that. Really do enjoy playing with each other, for each other, etc. Other teams, it's 23 guys and 23 Ubers. Do you have a sense of how this team sits with one another and what a night like Sunday does for them, if anything?

Well, what I think is it's a reminder of, and I said this at the end of the show, is that you should never underestimate the pride of an elite athlete or really an elite anything, really. You know, to play one game in the National Hockey League is an incredible accomplishment. And I think that to be that successful, you have to really care. And I think it reminds you that there's a lot of guys on that team who really care.

You know, one player got traded, Gaudette, who's kind of at the center of all this. I think that made it a challenge. Like regardless of what happens from here on in i think it's obviously there's a group of players who are professional they take a lot of pride in their craft and you know competing at a high level means something to them like i think it's impressive and you know what it's it's kind of funny to say this jeff there's something about the leaves i think that brings out the best in opponents 100 it does of course it does they get a lot of attention everybody wants to roast this team yeah and

this is a team that as we've seen before will allow themselves to be roasted. I've talked about this before. BX has talked about this before. That ownership, you beat the Leafs and all is forgiven sometimes. There's the one story out there, the owner that tried to put money on the board and his GM said, you can't do that. Yes, that is true. You can't do that.

And that was a game I think I covered. That was a game I covered. Like they were going through a bad time and he said, if you win this one, all is forgiven. And he tried to put money up on the board and they blocked him and said he can't do that. You know, stretches like that, they only do one of two things. They only bring you closer together or they rip you apart.

And, you know, I think they got a lot of guys who have a lot of pride and they showed it. And I'll tell you this, I think some of the players who were their best players on Sunday night were some of the players who I think were upset about the situation or things that may have happened. But when the puck drops, it's, you know what? Let's play.

Let's play. Congratulations, Vancouver Canucks. You are the story in hockey right now. Best story of the night. What do we always say? We're not cheering for teams. We're cheering for stories. It's the best story in the NHL on this Sunday night

as we record this podcast. 31 Thoughts to Podcast, presented by the GMC Sierra AT4. On the other side, the great. She makes us all look wonderful. So, you know, she's tremendous herself. Deborah Berman, national stylist for Rogers. Yes, she helped get Elliot in the turtleneck. She's next.

Alright, Elliot, I want you to level with me here for a second, okay? Okay. What would you say about a person who the first time you met them asked you to take off your pants? Jeff, I really hope this person is a doctor or a tailor. All right. Well, that is what our guest today on the podcast did to me when I first started at Sportsnet. She is the Rogers National Stylist, and she's responsible for usually the good, seldom the bad, although that's all a matter of interpretation, and how we look week in and week out on Sportsnet. She is the great Deborah Berman, who so far has existed in this mythical realm, right?

It's almost like, you know, ignore the man behind the curtain here. Debra Berman is the one that pulls it all together from a stylistic point of view, and she joins us on the podcast today. That is a long introduction, and maybe it makes you feel a little bit awkward, but I can think I can speak for everybody at our shop. Debra, we all love you, and welcome to the podcast. Well, thank you. Yeah, that was a little bit of a misrepresentation. I don't think it's the first thing i asked you but um thank you it was the first day though it was you me and lou and i think it might have been the third or fourth thing

you asked me to do so i guess you wore me you wore me up a little bit yes so basically you are the whole premise you started this interview with is a lie is basically what we're already out here it's like could you try this suit on? Yes, pants are part of that, but yeah. Okay, I was trying to go for something. We all have different recollections of things. We all choose our memories in some ways. Okay, so I'm curious here because I always, like, listen,

it took me a long time. It took me a real long time to realize something about you. Can I tell you what that is? Tell me what that is. So I'll show up to Sportsnet. Normally you get the coffee shop look, right? Like the hoodie and the jeans and the sneaks and you sort of roll your eyes and go, do you own a mirror, Mary? Eight year old boy. But then when I get dressed up for television, I usually get the, hey, Jeff, you look great from you. I know where this is going. It took me, I don't know great from you. I know where this is going. It took me, I don't know how many years until I realized you were actually shooting yourself a compliment.

Complimenting myself. Because I'm responsible for none of it. It's just you. That's actually not true. It's the transformation. You came in looking like an eight-year-old boy with a knapsack and you clean up well up well you all do and don't you feel better when you're wearing your uniform i do yes absolutely now i'm not as dare i'm not as daring as elliot i'm going to turn this over to him in a second i'm not as daring as elliot is but i'm curious

when you're putting together something this is like oh look there's my navel moment here in the podcast when you're putting something together for me how much are you thinking will together something, this is like, oh, look, there's my navel moment here on the podcast. When you're putting something together for me, how much are you thinking, will Merrick like this versus Merrick needs to wear this? You know what? You took a while. Like, come on, let's face it. It was four or five years of I'm only going to wear this sort of Mad Men dark black skinny suit, skinny tie. And you wouldn't really, you know i i think i try to eek people out slowly out of their comfort zone it just i take my cues from them and elliot

from the start has been you know up for anything he's you know bring it on and so it's really fun to dress him but you've started we've started using color and three-piece suits and all of a sudden you're like hey i, I'm liking this. So it just took you a bit longer. And so now, yes, I do think about, yeah, what you would like to wear. There is a process to it. I mean, I do try to, every year, we have a great partnership with Jack Victor. And we have all these great fabrics.

But I do follow fashion and see what's new and try to incorporate it, even though sometimes, oftentimes, it's ridiculed by our audience. But, you know, in some ways, I know this sounds ridiculous, but the fabrics kind of speak to me. Like this one will be Elliot. This one is Jeff.

This one is, yeah, that's the way it works. All right. So this is interesting to me because, you know, I want to get a little bit into your background and like how you got here, but we'll do this first and we'll get to that a little bit into your background and how you got here, but we'll do this first and we'll get to that a bit later.

The worst you ever had to deal with was Berkey, I know, because he would only wear black suit, white shirt, different colored tie, right? Oh, not even different colored, red tie, blue tie. It's the first thing he ever told me when he met me. A man only needs four things in his wardrobe, a black suit, a white shirt, a blue tie, a red tie. I mean, I couldn't, and I could never solve him. He did let me start making his, maybe it was imperceptible to the audience, but we made his suits.

So they were, they fit him better. And those big massive shirts he used to wear were a bit more fitted, but I could never talk him out of the button down. He would walk in, Deb. He would walk in and we know he'd sit in the lotus which is the room where we all gather and watch games and he'd go to me Elliot what are you wearing tonight and I'd say oh this is the suit and he'd go yeah I'm gonna wear black suit white shirt red tie yeah and that would happen all the time I would just laugh I would just laugh in all seriousness he would say that oh yeah he would say I think I'm gonna go with a black suit, white shirt, red tie. And we would just laugh. Now, was there anybody else that you've dealt with

who's as rigid as Berkey or was he in a class by himself? He's in a class by himself. Because one of the things we have is we have a no, like a ban on black on TV, especially at Sportsnet, because it absorbs light. You don't see detail. You know, the first thing I found, especially the CBC guys, you must have worn a lot of it at black. Actually, I remember watching and seeing heels was always in black. So everybody always asked for a black suit. And I always had to tell them that no. And he was the only exception.

John Shannon and his button downs, I never managed to dissuade him from wearing those button downs. Did you ever, hang on, did you ever try? Oh, yes. Yes, very much so. He got into other things, you ever try? Oh yes, yes, very much so. He got into other things, but no, the button down,

he was very attached to. When I first met Doug McLean, he came walking, who turned in to be one of our biggest peacocks. He'd preen around, he'd preen around in those suits and wear them to Opus after.

He would leave his makeup on, Doug. He would leave his, you know what, he'd go to Yorkville, he'd leave his makeup on after the ball was scrubbing down. I'd go, nope, nope, going out for a glass of Pinot and he'd leave his makeup on, Deb. He would leave his makeup. He would go to Yorkville. He'd leave his makeup on after the vlog was scrubbing down. I'd go, nope, nope, going out for a glass of Pinot.

And he'd leave his makeup on. He's not the only guy to leave his makeup on. This is fantastic. As reluctant as everybody is at first to wear it, I think once you see yourself, there's quite a few guys that would leave with their makeup on. Oh, my God. This is awesome. This is the best podcast ever. I am not naming names.

Well, we just did. That's even better. I have to go off on a tangent here. There was a guy I knew and he does not work in Toronto. He works in another city, but he'd finish his shift and he'd go out and he'd leave his earpiece, his IFB on so that it would become a talking point when he went to like a bar or something. Oh, did I leave that on?

I work in TV. So I love this stuff. This is my favorite. But yes, Doug came wearing button downs as well and pleated pants from Very American. But he did allow me to evolve his look, let's say. So you mentioned something there that was interesting to me, and that is, you know, Rogers has rules, Sportsnet has rules, no black. Does Sportsnet have any other rules that they say about appearance or wardrobe?

Can I guess one? Yes, guess one. I'm going to guess that there's a rule about no brown shoes on the set because the light turns them red. Funnily enough, there's no rules. These are my rules. Occasionally, they have to say, I have great support. And after coming from many years in film and commercials and where there was such many layers of approvals, we have not complete autonomy, but I know the parameters. And every now and again, I might get a note from a boss.

The tan shoe thing is because our reds are compressed. And when we broadcast, they turn bright orange. So we can't use those. But the black is my rule. It's sort of a TV thing. So this year. Yes. Let's just forget the turtleneck for a second.

We'll get to the turtleneck in a minute. Oh, yes, we will. But how many times a year will you get a note saying yeah i'm not sure about that one you know what once maybe that's good i'm glad to hear that i'm glad to know we have great support i mean i probably the most notes i ever got would probably when strombo was on there right because he had a different style he had a different style. He had a different style. And there was one really bright green suit that probably was a mistake that we did get some notes about.

Okay. But for the most part, not really. But was he fun to work with, though? Out of all of us, he seems to be the most fashion-forward person we've had at the shop. Well, Don. Yes, Don, too. Don, yes. Yes, Don Curtains.

Yeah, he was great for me because he loved fashion and, but a challenge at the beginning because he had his brand and, you know, Jeff, how protective he is of his brand and he didn't even really want to wear a suit and Hockey Night is such a storied brand with traditions and so it took me a long time, long time to convince him that we could find a strombo version of a suit, which is also why we took a lot of flack and skinny pants used to trend on Twitter every weekend because it wasn't what the hockey audience was used to, but it was really, I would stand behind that the only kind of suit that made sense for him to

wear. You know, I got to tell you as I've evolved in and you say that I'm really good about doing whatever you ask, I don't think I would have been like that early in my career. I think now that I'm older, I'm less stuffy about it. I'm much more into let's have fun. Let's make the audience laugh, especially now people are going through a tough time. So I could see

that. Like I would go back if I, if it was 20 years ago, I probably would have been really stiff too. But now I think I feel very differently, but I'm wondering between, you know, the men and the women that you work with, how many people like Don had his own style and that wasn't changing. Yeah. George had his style and you bent him a little bit, but generally that wasn't changing. George had his style and you bent him a little bit, but generally that wasn't changing. I know Ron has a lot of his own style, but like how many people are like that? And how many of the men and women are like more to my side, which is I'm a blank canvas, paint me. Honestly, 5% are more stuck in their ways and everybody else is

very open. So it's a small percentage. And then some of our guests, like, you know, I don't dress Kevin Bieksa. Some days he looks great and some days he looks like he's going to, does he listen to this, by the way? No. Like in a mobster wedding with those like. So I think whenever we get somebody new, it always starts with a little bit of skepticism,

you know, I mean, but it doesn't take long for, that's part of my job is to listen and hear and find someone's comfort zone and, and make them, you know, gain their trust.

And then, you know, and, and usually we win them over. There's really been very few occasions that we haven't been able to do. So I have to say, Elliot, though, I don't think I've ever told you this.

Speaking of 20 years, I don't know if it was 20 years ago, but I occasionally watched Hockey Night prior to having this job. Kind of a bandwagon fan. And I used to watch, there was one show where you guys all had a different designer that dressed you. And you were wearing sort of a Sound of Music Tyrolean kind of outfit. Yeah. And I thought, oh, I'd like to dress that guy. I could make that fashion. Well, a couple years later, all your dreams came true.

Yes, they did. Speaking of dressing people specifically, do you dress for the position that they have on television? Like, I've made this point to you before. I know you just sort of Tai Chi it and let it go by and like, okay, whatever Merrick, how many times have I said to you, Deb,

I should look like a bartender. Like I should look very plain, not like just like some pink balloon in a suit, but I should look plain and everything around me when I'm hosting should look more colorful. And you've always shrugged that off, but do you have a philosophy about what each role should look like? I disagree with that. I think clothing, first of all, it's much more than just,

I think that what it appears like it's, it reflects your personality, it reflects the first thing that cognitively, the viewer takes in when they're watching you, I think we're making entertainment. I'm gonna get what you're saying that you're the, you know, the traffic cop and everybody else around you, but you have a personality of your own. But, and then in terms of, yeah, I mean, Hockey Night has its, you know, I think we're probably the last holdout for sort of ties. They're sort of evolving away or devolving. And so that, that brand and that look, I honor it. And I think you guys look great in suits.

I try to make it more fashionable. Over on the Sportsnet side, like Tim and Sid show, or Tim and Friends now, sorry, it's a more casual set. So the set somewhat dictates what you're going to wear, company, who you're with, demographic,

a bunch of factors. A couple of things there. One, if that's true, why won't you let me take my hair to the bone? Oh, because it's on camera. When you you let me take my hair to the bone? Because it's on camera. When you see pink, like nobody wants to see pink skull. Yeah, you're too pallid. Yes.

Listen to you now. Oh, wow. At least I tan. You're like a lobster when you tan. That's true. We have a lot of those. I do have one. I do remember, and I'm not going to name who this is.

He's no longer with us. But I did have one, Taylor, who said that somebody was trying to put a suit on a bag of milk trying to dress this guy. Oh, that's tough. I know. You see, my question was going to be, who is the toughest body to fit and why is it Sid Sixero? That was going to be my question. Sid's not tough to dress. Wait till you see Sid. We just did a new deal for him and he's a full made to measure Dutch brand. And he looks like a million bucks. He really does.

It's another thing too, Deb, I learned the hard way that people get distracted and I've looked like a mess at times during this pandemic. I know it. and part of it is a little bit of a game to me but people do get distracted when there's something off no question about that so you you do have to look good you know one thing i wanted to ask you i remember a couple years ago we had tara sloan on the podcast and um you know she talked about appearance and things like that and i do think it's like, obviously, I think everybody would agree. There's much more critical coverage of what women wear and dress and look like, as opposed to what men wear and dress and look like. So how much different is it to address the women of Sportsnet and how much caution or

care more is put towards them or isn't? I don't know the answer. I'm curious to hear what you have to say. I would say that used to be true. And I think when I first came there, there was that typical, the men were in suits, you know, and three layers of clothing and shirts and ties, and the women were in skimpy, tight dresses. And we put them in those.

They were beautiful dresses, but they wore tight dresses. And we've evolved away from that. They're wearing suits. Look at Karen Cameron. I mean, Martine wears suits. Ivanka's back wearing suits. Hazel wears dresses because she loves wearing them and they look great on her. And Danielle Michaud wears sort of more sort of urban street wear. And so I don't know if that's true anymore. That's good to know. I mean, I think women, I think their performances, just because it's still a male-dominated world, can be under more scrutiny. We get as many comments. We get more comments about you guys than the women on most nights now.

You see it. You're getting more attention, right? It's true. Right? I'd still like to get into a penny-collar shirt. No, we're not doing penny-collar shirts. Peaky blinders. I'm right into peaky blinders.. No, we're not. We're not doing penny collared shirts. Peaky blinders. I'm right into peaky blinders.

Ellie, you'll love this. So I'm like right into peaky blinders. It's just like every free moment. I think we should do it maybe for one night. Yeah. And I'm like, Deb, please let me wear, let me wear a penny collared shirt just once. She's like hard. No, no.

Only because they actually are a fashion trend, but fashion trends, you know, I've long since, you know, accepted the fact that they will get ridiculed. That's okay. Right. I'll take it. It is a fashion trend that's been around for a bit, so. You see, the thing I disagree with most, like you're talking about that night at CBC, and I didn't mind being a guinea pig for a stylist. What I didn't like was it guinea pig for a stylist. What I didn't like was it was during a conference final game.

Like, I don't think that should happen. Yeah. I don't think it should happen during the playoffs. Right. But, you know, for example, you know, it used to be, Jeff, remember, Montreal would play Toronto and they'd take, maybe if they took the train and they wore old-style suits. Fedoras, yeah. Maybe for a night like that you know deb

we could have a theme night or something like that where everybody dresses a certain way if they want to yeah i would love to see more of that kind of a thing i'd be down for that what's your next look is there something that you say i still want to do this and I haven't done it yet, or I see this being a trend that's coming and I want to do that? It's definitely the evolution away from the tie. And I think it's going to take a while. We're doing it already at Sportsnet. I think until the NHL, until the hockey players stop wearing ties, I think we're going to still be in ties. So, I mean, the turtleneck, I know we won't talk about it right now, but a turtleneck has replaced a tie in many situations.

It's just as clean and formal a look. It's dressy. It's a fashion trend. Donovan and Faisal have been wearing it for a couple of years. It was just so shocking on that desk because no one's ever worn anything other than a shirt and tie before. So I would love to get you guys, I mean, not like when I started, when everybody was wearing casual, that was a hot mess.

But there is a way to dress casually and still look pulled together. I don't know if we'll get there. Who at our place thinks they have good style but really doesn't? Aside from me. Good luck getting an answer. Because I know I'm one of those people. Yeah. I am not going to name.

Oh, come on. No. Well, you said BXA. He dresses like garbage half the time. I didn't say he dresses like garbage. I said he looks amazing most of the time. I was just misquoted. No, no.

I heard you say those exact words. I was just misquoted. No, no. I heard you say those exact words. Like, I think Dan Murphy has really good style. He does. He does. And that's why Jeff said, you know, when I compliment myself, it's not, it's really not.

It's because when you put something on and embody it, Dan's a perfect example. He just loves clothes. I don't send him anything particularly different. He's adventuresome. He wears them well and he poses and yeah. You mentioned Daniel Michaud. Like I think she has really good style. Faisal, I think is, is Faisal allowed to wear like running shoes on set?

Is that allowed or not allowed? Everybody else is wearing running shoes except for you guys. Just so you know. Really? Well, you know what? I don't know if I want anyone to see them because I get seen, right? Because I'm on the side of the desk. I don't know if I'm ready for that yet. I have to say.

No, I don't think hockey night is. But I think that it is a trend too, especially as we come out of this pandemic when everybody's been in casual wear. So it's sort of the soft tailoring and stretchy suits and running shoes and no ties. It's not what we're going to do on hockey night, but it is what's happening elsewhere. But what I was working up to is the answer is Kelly Rudy, right? No. Kelly is one of the nicest people to dress. Kelly's exactly how you would imagine it.

There is one point to make with Kelly, though. We do a lot of tailoring. And during the pandemic, we've had people like Arash or CJ that started running and large fluctuations in weight. Well, I've had that too. I understand that. I've had that too. And so we're happy to, we'll dress anybody type, but we would let in and let out as things change. But Kelly's in Calgary, So that exploding button would not have happened had he been here. Cause we would have let his jacket out. CJ's just ribs and teeth now. Like how many times have you had the changes? His suits cost us a fortune and a rash.

Yeah. But good for them. Like it's, I like it. I think traveling all the traveling everybody did is hard on them. Late night eating and drinking. them. Yeah, I'm happy to see it. I think traveling, all the traveling everybody did, it's hard on them. Late night eating and drinking? Yeah, yeah.

How did you get started in this? Can you tell everybody your career path? Was this something you were always interested in, and what was your career path? I was always interested in it. I always had sketchbooks, and I was Drew, but I came from a family where you could really either be a lawyer or a doctor, and I was drew, but I came from a family where you could really either be a lawyer

or a doctor and it was a hobby and it wasn't something that was taken seriously. So I went to university, I was doing poli sci and I had a friend who was going to Ryerson to do interior design and she and I managed to convince my parents when I turned 18 to, I applied to Ryerson and came and did the fashion course at Ryerson, moved to Toronto and studied fashion. And you're from Ottawa, right? No, my parents live there now. I grew up in Scotland until I was 12 and then we moved to Saskatoon.

Close. I was close. Ottawa, Scotland, Saskatoon. Yeah, you're half the thing. And then after Ryerson, I worked during school for anybody and everybody that would, that came because people from the industry were always looking for students. One time I graduated, I was, I was working on a television series for Mr. T. I was working for magazines. And then I worked in fashion for, I worked for Associated Editor for Flair and Chatelaine and went to New York and worked for YM, worked for magazines. I had two menswear magazines. That's when I really got into menswear, when we traveled around the world. And then moved to London,

thought I would work for a magazine there and ran out of money and within, you know, six months, and got a call to come back and work on a music video. And then I did music videos, every Canadian band you could think of, Triumph, Blue Rodeo, Glass Tiger, Tom Cochran, Kim Mitchell. Did that for a number of years. Worked with MAC on all the MAC stuff, Fashion Cares. And then I started doing a short foray into short film, episodic TV. And then I had my daughter. And after that, I switched to doing commercials because

i wouldn't be away from home as much now i used to get a ton of hockey ones i did you know sydney crosby and i don't know how many gritsky commercials and a big nike campaign with marcus nasland and ilia kovalchuk oh you did that that was. I did one with Guy Lafleur and Rocky Richard and Cam Neely and then in about 2008, I heard that CBC was selling off their massive wardrobe department and no one in Canada wanted to buy it.

And I convinced this wardrobe supervisor, probably the best one in Canada, that I'd worked with on a show to partner with me and open a costume house. So we bought Partners Films Collection and we opened this big 30,000 square foot costume house called Berman and Company. And at the end of those two years of setting it up, I got a call.

I think at the time, I think I know, David Akande. Were either of you around when David Akande was the president? No, I just missed David. You just missed David? He was the president at the time and he shopped at a menswear store where all the costume designers used to go to get things made. And he asked one day, so we're looking for stylists. Would you recommend anybody? They recommended me. It was just supposed to be come in and do it twice a year. And so actually, this tells you how much of a sports fan I was because I got the call on a Friday from Stephen Lopez, one of our directors who's still with us.

He was forced to call me and interview me for this job. And so I spent the weekend watching so that I could have something to, you know, sound intelligent about. And then on the Monday we had the interview. He just sort of had this strange look in his face when I talked, but he just nodded politely. But I had watched the score all weekend and not Sportsnet. So I was talking about the score people, but I still got the job. And then discovered that there really was a need for it. At that time, everybody was dressing at home and driving in their clothes.

And so I procured some real estate and built wardrobe departments that were like we would have on a film and set up deals and yeah, and then infiltrated my way into the rest of the company. Now that Mr. T show was TNT, right? It was TNT. So I've been hanging on that since you mentioned it. Cause I forgot. I, you actually mentioned that to me once.

What was Mr. T like to work with? Really a very religious man, very sort of soft-spoken, the opposite of what you would expect. And he was good to deal with? Yes. Yeah, he was really good to deal with. You know, you're out of an awful lot of Canadian bands there as well. Which videos can we look at and say that's a deb burman that i would wouldn't be embarrassed to say because it was of the era patio lanterns patio lanterns that was a huge song that's an enormous song i went and saw that concert when he was at kingswood when patio lanterns came out that was great did you pick out the opp hat for patio lanterns or was that? I think so.

Yeah. Wow. I think so. I want to ask you about a Twitter feed. Yes. One Twitter feed specifically, which was curated, put together, produced by, and terrified all of us, my buddy Patrick. Oh, right. At NHL Ties.

Yes. I wish he was still doing it. I know, me too. It's funny. I just right. At NHL Ties. Yes. I wish he was still doing it. I know, me too. It's funny, I just texted with him the other day too. The way he used to circle the gap. Yes. I'm glad he isn't because I'm a tie disaster. Oh my God.

That's the only reason I love your beard, Elliot, because it covered the- Because you're not. You're not. What did you think of that Twitter feed? I loved it. I loved it. I loved it because it's the attention to detail and it's the distracting things that matter to me that I could never convince any of you. I mean, there are some people that ask for a tie check.

And because we, just for people listening, we don't have on set wardrobe. I stay for a bit, but we can't work all day and all night. And on a movie set or commercial set or print set, there would always be on set wardrobe, watching the camera and, you know, making sure, because you guys have other things to do. So we don't have that. And over the course of a night, some people are better than others. Elliot does tend to unravel as the night goes on. So I thought I was in good fun.

It was, and guys really started taking more notice because they didn't want to be featured in it. Yeah. Oh, no. Everybody wanted to be first star. No, no one could beat Drew or Amanda. Drew was always like, if you're going up against Drew, forget it.

Cause he was, Drew was the first star. Billy Jaffe was always really good, too. Billy was great, yeah. I only know how to do one knot. Is that a pain for you? It's not a pain. It's painful to watch it. How many times have you said, that's a great tie, but Merrick, that knot?

Well, you keep saying, you know, you'll learn a new one. Most guys, I mean, at least you know how to tie a tie. We do have a few people I have to pre-knot all their ties for them come on you do not no no no no no i do you serious i do and i'm not going to tell you who that is who who is it names let's go berman names names come on names names but most people who this could be but most people uh it's not amber it's got to be dave amber you say amber to everything. He's on it. You know what?

He called me this week. He's like, what were you saying about me on the podcast? People are saying you're ripping me. So if I know people are saying to Amber that we're ripping them, I'm going to keep naming them from everything. So, Deb, last week on the podcast, we talked about something about Tinder. And I had an experience where someone that I know called me for a reference on someone that found her on Tinder.

It was someone at our shop. And so right away, Elliot's like, it's David Amber. Like, I swear. Yeah, he called me. He said, people said you brought me up with Tinder. It's David Amber. It's David Amber. It's David Amber.

It's David Amber. That's his default. It's his knee jerk. That's his default setting. But doesn't Amber look like the kind of guy who would have trouble doing a tie? Like, I think so. No. No, he does a great

job on his on his tie david amber's not very actually david's come a long way because i used to hear he used to say i'd put his outfit out when we he first came here and and then he would say to the makeup artist does this work are you sure this works i don't know if this works and i'm like oh my god he stopped doing that i've heard of people who work in the movie industry or the film industry, and they say that the rules of what you're allowed to do in terms of making eye contact with people or having any kind of conversation with people, it's kind of forbidden. How does working, for example, with us compare to working with people in the film industry or the music industry?

There isn't the same delineation. I mean, first of all, that is not a rule. It is some actors process, um, processes and it's always a little disappointing, but it's, you know, they're in character. I mean, you sort of understand it. Okay. It's not necessarily just ego. No, it's completely different. I mean, but you guys are still, you know, sometimes I have to remind myself because it is so casual and you guys are also, I would say we are friends, that you are working pre-show and you're on your phones all the time. Merrick, you'll be doing your notes. You'll be prepping.

You're about to perform. Like you're so relaxed about it. I forget sometimes that it's, you know, that you are about to, you're the face of our network and you're about to go out and perform and and do your job so no it's night and day because like you for example you always get on me and kathy broderick too like i i come to the set too late can you put your jacket on already like yes i stand and wait and i know but i because i'm usually thinking and my mind is a million places at once, but it's funny, like how you guys are like,

okay, when do we finally have to tell Elliot to put his freaking jacket on? Because, you know, in the event that you put it on at such a last second that, well, right now we're because of the pandemic and social distancing, we can't really,

that's, this is the big disclaimer because we can't really go in and do finals, but it's just that, that then there would be no time if, if you got near, it was inside out for instance no i i can't believe me i get it i totally understand what do you think about ink on television deb berman oh yeah good question like tattoos yeah right just thinking i love them

i love them i love the contrast of they you know a suit suit and tattoos. I think all those things, like when I first started, you know, there was no facial hair and there was, you know, you had to cover up tattoos. We had Carol Lang for a while and she was, you know, an amazing athlete. And the one thing they kept focusing on was that she had this beautiful tattoo on her arm. And I don't think I'm wrong. I think we had to cover it up all the time. And that would never happen now like i think that facial hair tattoos all those things are um um now there's there's no hard rules against them so for example like for young people starting out because it's a it's kind of a um a wild west out there now in social media people you know used to be used to start up someone had to hire you and you got your exposure that way now with twitter and instagram and tiktok and everything

that's available for you you can youtube you can create your own career do you have any sort of um i don't know fashion do's and don'ts that you would suggest to young people who are trying to make a name for themselves not really i think the advice i used to get a lot of calls from people asking, you know, would I meet with them? How would they get into this industry? And I used to give the same advice and I've kind of stopped giving it because of that. I believe that you can't, I mean, I learned, I had to learn how to pattern make and sew and design, which I've never, I don't do anymore. We use tailors, but unless you're really learning how to see, how to see when balance proportion is off and, and you can't alter a garment unless you know how to construct a garment and color theory. And Jess Chambers, my assistant, my right hand took the same course

that I did. And we talk about this color theory class we took. So it's all these, there is more to it than, you know, and learning history of art and history of design and context and why clothing reflected the ethos of society and all that stuff. So I think that's the education you need. But, you know, you can have 100,000 followers and just dress yourself well and have a career. So I wouldn't criticize anybody. I mean, I think it's amazing that it's a whole new avenue now.

The world has opened up. And you said we have an Instagram account now. We just launched it. It's called Sportsnet underscore style. Hair and makeup is also under me now. And it's where we can lift back the curtain and show makeup tips and hair and you guys. And when we do shoots and red carpets and just the process behind the scenes

and our viewers are interested. So it's a catch-all. And also for our vendors that want to be part of it too. Now, why don't you shout out some of our staff? Like you mentioned Jess. Yes. Who are some of the other people that our listeners should be aware of

who save us every week? Well, I think the makeup department are the sort of the unsung heroes because, you know, wardrobe, we get lots of comments about it. But makeup, we don't get as many comments. And that's because it's so good, right? Makeup is that thing that if it's off, you know, you'll notice it. Unfortunately, because of the pandemic, too, we haven't had our makeup department in. They will all be back, but Nadine Natour and Sasha Andrews and Sarah Ann, Kate Eastbrook, we miss our makeup department. We brought them back, but they're socially distancing and they're doing makeup

instruction right now. Hillary, yeah, Hillary tells me what to do and i and i put it on like i'll get my little mac 30 out and she'll tell me no don't was it don't smear just pat and all these different techniques now apply my and it helps but it does definitely help since she's there but there's nothing like when they apply it because you have one compact when they do your makeup they're blending three or four colors right nobody is one now how how do you take offense at comments do i take offense uh of comments like like for example when you look at the instagram feed and someone says elliot looks like he looks like a disaster like does that bother you twitter is where those come from in instagram you tend not to get as many negative comments.

Does it bother me? It used to, but it doesn't bother me now, especially because we do push the envelope a little bit with you. And so for every person that says they hate it, somebody will say, I love it. And I also know from the menswear stores we use, they have people coming in saying, whether it's somebody's wife or with her husband,

or it's a man on his own saying, I want the suit that Elliot wore last week or Kelly wore two weeks ago. Or yeah, so. Wow. in saying whether it's somebody's wife or with her husband or it's a man on his own saying i i want the suit that elliot wore last week or kelly wore two weeks ago or yeah so wow there's a wonderful moment we mentioned uh george strombolopoulos earlier about a million hours ago and thank you for spending a lot of time with us today deb um there's a wonderful clip on uh one of his old shows the hour on cbc where he's interviewing Robert Plant. Did you ever see that interview, Deb? I didn't see that interview, but I went to his house when he had Robert Plant, when he interviewed him. It was a strombo show.

Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. So there's a, so of course, Robert, for those that don't know, if you've been living under a rock, he's a former lead singer from Led Zeppelin. And so George asks him this question. Tonight, in this country, in a bar somewhere, there's a Zeppelin. And so George asks him this question. Tonight, in this country, in a bar somewhere, there's a Zeppelin tribute band playing and some guy is doing you. Any advice? Try and dress to the right.

And the place, of course, cracked down. And the place, of course, cracked up. Who is the funniest person that Deb Berman has ever dressed? Oh, my God. Has there been anyone that just cracks you up? Because that's an all-time line for Robert Plant. If you've ever seen Robert Plant perform in the 70s, you know exactly what he's getting at at that point.

But who's the person that cracks you up the most? In my current job now? In your current job, previous job, just anyone. I mean, humor is one of the, you know, thank God you guys are funny because that's one of the most important things to me. And, you know, it's not brain surgery that I do. So there's, we always laugh. I mean, I don't know. I find most people I work with in our industry are funny. I know that's not the answer you're after, but I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I find most people I work with in our industry are funny. I know that's not the answer you're after, but I don't know. I crack up nearly every time I'm at work. Will I be allowed to wear the turtleneck again? Yes, but we wouldn't do it in such a, well, I mean, I can say yes, but I think that one, I would need to have to get approval. I mean, for the audience, it was, that was not a whim.

It was, we had to go through a process to be able to do that. I understand why, right? Yeah. We made it a very bold suit to accentuate it on purpose for that particular. But I think Dan Murphy wore one last night, or he's wearing one tonight. Is Vancouver playing tonight? Yes, Saturday and Sunday night, yes. I think Murph is wearing one tonight.

Nice. Yeah. So we'll see. It might just by the function of the panel that you're on and who you are and the size of your following. I think, you know, you might just get that feedback regardless. But I think if we had made it much more subtle, I don't know, but I think that maybe it wouldn't have blown up quite so much. You know what?

No, you know what it was? It was fun. It's hockey night in Canada. That's why it blew up. Yeah. Like Deb, remember when you put me into turttleneck on ice surfing that's right okay okay oh well that guy is wearing a turtleneck on ice surf this is because it was hockey night in canada yeah that's right like it that is the big stage right there is a uniform and it's been around a long time in this era right now where we're all used to Zoom calls, Zoom calls on television. Like we're all used to the,

you know, the split panel look now on TV. And a lot of the looks are casual because listen, you're working from home. Who's wearing a finely tailored suit at home? When we get back to quote unquote normal, whatever that is and whenever that is, what do you think stays? That's a good question. And I think there's different answer for the rest of the company than there is for whatever that is and whenever that is what do you think stays that's a good question and i think there's different answer for the rest of the company than there is for hockey night i think hockey night still yep until you know the nhl loosens their dress code and the players start i think we'll take our lead from it'll really be the nhl and the players they stop wearing ties when they get off the bus the rest of the network is will probably start

going in through an evolution of more cat we're doing it already you know polos under jackets and joggers with running shoes and blazers but i think hockey night will take a little bit longer people are saying the tie is dead it's gonna it's it's been around for hundreds of years and i think it's a sense of occasion a sense sense of formality. I think that there's still escapism just because you're at home and your sweats doesn't mean to say you want to see somebody on TV. I'm sitting doing this podcast right now in sweatpants and like a long sleeve pullover. I love coming to work and dressing up in a suit and tie right now. I really enjoy it. It's part of the process of putting on your armor and your uniform.

And I remember when Scott Moore came and within three days, he wanted all our broadcasters in shirts and ties and suits within 72 hours. And everybody was wearing casual at that time. And the resounding response from everybody was just relief. They just felt so much more professional and just do their job better. You know what it is? I think, honestly, Deb, at CBC, we didn't have a stylist. We had a clothing allowance and we did it ourselves. And like, I needed more help. Like Ron, as you know, Ron and Don, they had style and they had their way. I didn't really have an identity that way. I think what I've learned the value of your job is, is that everybody can have their own identity. Everybody can have their look, but they need someone to make sure that their look is clean.

And that's your value. Like if everybody's allowed to do what they want to do, some people are going to look great and some people are going to be disasters. But if everybody is allowed to have their look with you kind of coordinating it, you make sure everybody looks clean. And that I think is the real value of what you do. You take what we like and you say, I'm going to put you in a position where you're comfortable, but you still look clean. And I think that's the difference between what you're talking about when you first got

there and where we are now. I really see the value of that. Well, thank you. Yeah. And that's the goal. You say clean. I think it's a cohesive look. Everybody's there in an individual, but they're polished and pulled together.

And as a group, it's cohesive. Deborah, as we conclude, you sat here for a long time with us. I want to thank you. And I don't think I'm the only one in saying thank you for saving us from ourselves. Debra, we could not do and I'll tell you what, I'll go I'll go one more on Elliot. Every shop needs a great cheerleader. Elliot, every shop needs a great cheerleader. Everyone says the same thing about you. You dress us like a million bucks and you don't think that your job ends there. You still really pump us up before we go out.

Everybody says that about you. You're a great cheerleader, Deb. Yeah. Well, you're a great team to support. I mean, I've stayed, I've never had a job before. This is my first job job and I've stayed here for over 10 years and it's because of you guys. It's just very fulfilling, the gratitude and yeah. So thank you back. So can I get a penny collar shirt then? This was all bribery. That's what this was. The whole thing. Take back all the compliments then. Thanks, Debra.

Thank you guys. I'll see you in an hour yeah okay bye there she is deborah berman we all Elliot, safe to say, adore that woman. I don't know that I've ever met someone who is both as thorough and decisive and professional and determined. And also, at the same time, as I mentioned at the end of the interview, a great cheerleader for all of us. Like she comes to work, she has her job. We've all seen her in her office with clothes strewn everywhere. And she's organizing all of it for all of us. And we all like we come to work and it's easy. It's all laid out there for us. We don't see how any of it happens. And she works

for tail off to make it so, so we can just wander in, grab a suit off the rack, or in your case, a turtleneck off the rack, and just put it on and boom, you're on television. And we talk about this with the Vancouver Canucks, the top of the show. People that are in the room that make it easier to come to work. You have someone that you see and you look forward to it. Or you see them in the hallway and you smile and instantly you're happier. I know that Deb Berman has bad days. We all have bad days. I'm sure Deb Berman has terrible days,

but you know who doesn't see it? All of us. We don't see, as far as I see, Deb Berman's never had a bad day. That's what she brings to the office every day and free that is so valuable in any shop that's deb berman to me man she's the best i had all day for her are you expecting me to argue with you no i'm expecting you to say

something nice about deb here i'm sure she's listening to the podcast saying well i can't wait to hear what elliot's gonna say about me. She knows how I feel. She knows how I feel. Okay, so let's then do, before we wrap up the podcast here, you talked on headlines on Saturday about the Winnipeg Jets and Kevin Shevell day off and how he wanted to do something bigger than he did. And the trade, and it was the very last minute, last Monday on trade deadline, just before 3 o'clock Eastern, he makes a deal for Jordy Ben of the Vancouver Canucks.

But he did hint in his presser that he was looking to do something more significant and that something was Jamie Oleksiak. Yeah, you know, I think that when you have a situation where a GM, it looks that frustrated and is upset that they couldn't do something you kind of see it as a challenge what was it that he was trying to do and I don't know that this is the only thing that Kevin Sheveldayoff was trying to do

but I do believe that it was one major thing and that was acquire Jamie Alexiak from Dallas. And I don't know what the deal was. All I heard was that it was going to really cost the jets, but they were prepared to do it. They were prepared to maybe take a bit more of a risk than they were used to doing because they figured this was a year that was worth it. And they really tried and they just didn't get them. And I think the reason they didn't get them was because at the end of the day, I think the Dallas Stars have decided they would like to keep Alexiak.

I think they're going to work to do it. I wonder if it's going to be one of those kinds of things that, for example, Winnipeg signed Adam Lowry. And I had some people who said to me, well, why wouldn't they just leave him till after the expansion draft and then adam not every team's comfortable with doing that i wonder if dallas potentially would get there with alexiak but i think they're going to try to keep him you see i was one because that jamie alexiak's name was very much out there and when you and cj came on on monday like right almost almost right at 12 o'clock,

and you went through the waiver list, the waiver wire of players that had been claimed, and I can't remember if it was you or CJ, said that Dallas claimed Sammy Votnin. I said, uh-oh. Yeah. That may be the prelude to, okay, we've got this covered. We're moving Jamie Oleksiak here. And then they said it was because of Secharis. Yeah.

And then maybe it's like insurance in case they're going to move them or not. Who knows? But there were other teams like Toronto had the conversation about Jamie Alexiak, as you mentioned, the Winnipeg Jets. But it seems as if this is like it may have taken a little bit longer than they thought. And he had to go to another team first, but then came back. This is kind of the guy that thought they were getting when they drafted him. No, he played great for them last year in the playoffs.

There's a couple of things here with Dallas. I know it's been a challenging season for the Dallas Stars. And now Radulov and Bishop are officially done for the season. Rupe Hintz has been excellent. Joe Pavelski has been real good. Jason Robertson has been... Yeah, he might win the Calder if it wasn't for Kaprizov.

He's going to be right in there with votes. I remember watching him in junior hockey in Kingston and saying, this guy has an insanely good shot, but the boots are going to hold him back. And I mean, everybody, it wasn't just me. Like everyone's saying like, oh, the Robertson kid, man, if only he could, if his feet could

catch up to his hands, but he's been fantastic for the Dallas Stars as well. It's been such a bizarre, listen, it's been a bizarre couple of years for the Dallas Stars, whether it was the Montgomery situation and up and down and bonus and bubble and Stanley Cup final to this season and no Tyler Sagan and, I don't know, to COVID. It's been a bizarre couple of years. Four games with Detroit this week. Yeah.

Let's see. I want to finish up on a couple of things. Mention the Toronto Maple Leafs a couple of seconds ago. As you cheer for the great story, not necessarily the team, you remember when Zach Parise wore his father's helmet and gloves back in 2017 when the Wilds were wearing the Minnesota North Stars throwbacks? He had dad's old bucket on and the gloves. Is there not a part of you that wants Nick Foligno to wear his dad's helmet

in warmup when he debuts? Who asked him that? If he was, Oh, maybe it was on the zoom call. Someone asked about, will he wear, but I'm saying like,

you're not going to wear in a game. Why not? No, you won't play. No, I understand. Like you want players to be as comfortable as possible in the game. Like you can't expect.

Well, what if he was comfortable in that helmet? Is it, if he's comfortable and the nhl approves usage of that helmet still then fantastic i'm all for bringing that bucket back in the nhl i don't know i just think that that would it's just such a cool and distinctive look that we don't see anymore is he gonna jump when he scores too see so the felina boys have already done that right for their first nhl i don't see anymore. Is he going to jump when he scores too? See, so the Foligno boys have already done that, right? For their first NHL. I don't know, like, eh, maybe, I guess. I don't think anyone would complain.

I think anytime you can get the Foligno leap into an NHL game, you take it. By the way, I wonder if Nick's going to debut now on Wednesday Night Hockey on Thursday this week, Toronto at Winnipeg. That's right. We have Thursday, Friday this week for Wednesday Night Hockey and no game on Wednesday Night Hockey on Thursday this week, Toronto at Winnipeg. That's right. We have Thursday, Friday this week for Wednesday Night Hockey and no game on Wednesday.

That's right. Because of the schedule. So it's a little bit different. A few years ago in the CHL NHL Top Prospects game was in Kelowna. Afterwards, I was sitting at the bar with an agent and we were just, you know, BSing. What were you drinking?

I don't recall i will apple juice no no this probably would have been when i was still drinking so probably would have been a glass of red wine oh okay so we're having a conversation about his players and i said you know as i think about all the guys you have, none of them are problems. Like I haven't heard bad things about any of your guys. And that's not always true with most agents. I'm like, there's like not a whiff of controversy or a problem or not liked in the room, like whatever. And he said, that's because I have a very, very deliberate strategy for recruiting players.

And I said, really, what's that? He says, I recruit from the two most low maintenance places in the world. It's my 2S rule. And I said, what's that? He goes, I only recruit from Sweden and Saskatchewan because those people are low, low maintenance. They show up, they work, they're friendly, it's their job, and then they go home. Focusing on Saskatchewan, two Sasky boys, 1,767 games. As we record this, Gordie Howe and Patrick Marleau are tied. Do you have a thought on Patrick Marleau here? are tied. Do you have a thought on Patrick Marlowe here? You know, I have to tell you, when I was younger, I was never big on longevity streaks. Like I always thought when I was in school, people who had perfect attendance were losers.

Did you hate Cal Ripken then too? There was a time I said, what's the big deal? A guy shows up for work every day. And then as I get older, I realize how hard it is to show up for work every day. Yeah. Especially now when you can be felled by something that isn't even your own fault, right? Correct. by something that isn't even your own fault, right? Correct. So I think to show up every day or as much as Patrick Marleau has

and to last as long as he has, I don't think that people realize how hard that is. So when I think about Marleau, I think about how hard it is to play as many games as he has. Now, I understand there's lots of people who look at it and say, well, Gordie Howe played so many more. WHA. And WHA. And I think there's a counter to how many games Marlowe has lost in his career to lockouts or COVID or anything like that.

It doesn't make up the number, but it increases it. I just think to play that many games, whether in a row or in your career, it is really hard to do. And that's the thing I just respect the most about it is, it has changed my opinion on perfect attendance. Because I used to think that perfect attendance, I remember every year at school, in my high school, they would give the perfect attendance awards. And some of us used to laugh at those people.

Like, what kind of loser shows up here every day? And as I've gotten older and i realize how hard it is to show up every day you know i wish i'd been a bit more mature in my opinion about that when i was a teenager listen i was the same way i was like you i always sort of shrugged off oh wow he's done this for a long time regardless of who it was. It didn't impress me until I started actually talking to athletes and got a sense of what that longevity meant to them. Like, what's the first thing when you talk to someone and they reference another hockey player? Oh, that guy played a thousand games. Or what that guy played through.

Or what that guy played through. But it's the number of games. Like, guys always come back to that. Like, that is such a badge. You always talk about, like, you know, the hockey player's hockey player. Like, the player that other players respect. The stat that a lot of them get to, like, right away is how many games they played. That means so much to these guys. And I didn't appreciate that

until I started talking to these players. And only now do I get a sense of how much that means. Like people who played with Steve Eisenman in 2002, which was the year he won the gold medal and the Stanley Cup on that terrible knee injury. That year, people don't just talk about that he won the gold medal and he won the Stanley Cup. It was that he won playing on a knee that basically needed a new kind of surgery.

A lot of respect. Congratulations to Patrick Marleau from all of us here on tying Gordie Howe on Monday against Vegas. He officially breaks the record, Elliot. So there's one thing I wanted to address before we wrapped up the show this week. I had a few people who tweeted at me and a couple of people texted me and they said they went on the internet and couldn't find my white shirt picture that I talked about last week for my dating profile. So I looked for it and I can't find my white shirt picture that I talked about last week for my dating profile.

So I looked for it and I can't find it either. Like for some reason it appears to be scrubbed off the internet. I am going to see if I can find it. This is what the internet's made for. This is like internet mystery. Like I Googled Elliot Friedman, white shirt, Elliot Friedman, white shirt, Western. I did all of this stuff and I can't find it. So I am going to try to find it so that people can see this because it is really something.

I think it's a horrible picture of me. And I had people say to me, if you were single now, would you sub in any of the pictures from your recent appearances on Sportsnet? And I said, I probably would. But I'm really going to try to find this white shirt. That's awesome, Frege. The world deserves this, Elliot. Let's find this. Yes, it does.

Thanks again. Speaking of our looks, thanks again to Debra for popping by the podcast and spending much more time than she bargained for with these two oafs. Taking Us Out is a band from the Kitchener-Waterloo area. Last week, our producer, Emil Delic, got a DM from one of the band's members, who's also a fan of the pod, looking to get his band's music featured on the podcast. Hey, all musicians, there's your PSA. Always happy to support independent music send your tunes to emil and with that here's manic theatrics with fading away on the late nights are fading away

All the roadblocks are fading away Give it all up or take it away Just go for the shots Don't care what they say Opinion or not You got me confused

Another roadblock, you're losing your muse So try this new trick, it never gets bored And show all your friends the charts at the floor Breaking their mind, they're seeking for sure You are the disease, but there is no cure for this I miss all the fights I never get bored of All the late nights and morning for sure But now they're all gone

you wanted to choose to hide the last fight and save the news ready or not we're fading away all our old friends are fading away all the late nights are fading away

all our old lives are fading away ready or not lives are fading away Ready or not, we're fading away All our old friends are fading away All the late nights are fading away All our old lives are fading away To listen to those who don't understand Is like breaking bread for some evil man Who thinks that his life is right through our eyes He can't be more wrong

It comes as a surprise, look in the mirror And what would you see? That you've been knowing what you could be But nobody else could see you That way, we make it, let's see I'm sorry to say Ready or not, we're fading away All our friends are fading away

All the late nights are fading away All our lives are fading Outro Music