32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Imminent And Under The Bus

Episode Date: December 5, 2022

Busy weekend for the guys! Jeff and Elliotte talk about the Erik Karlsson chat on Hockey Night (00:10) and the challenges with moving the contract, Brock Boeser and the Vancouver Canucks (12:25), the 2024 All-Star game (42:20), and Ottawa opening up their data room this week as they get closer to selling the franchise (52:00).They also discuss the New York Ranger (36:40), Jacob Trouba (30:00), Jordan Binnington (38:00), the Winnipeg Jets (47:10), and they attempt to define the word “Imminent” (22:00).Plus, they take your questions (56:00)!This podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.GET YOUR 32 THOUGHTS MERCH HEREMusic Outro: Lucy Daydream - DrippyFind the full track hereEmail the podcast at [e-mail] or call The Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailAudio Credits: AT&T SportsNet, Bally Sports Midwest, Bally Sports South, MSG, Phillip Thompson (Twitter), Sharks Audio Network and Sportsnet.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Eric, there's a lot of noise out there. Just wanted to know what is... Is it? It's all Jeff Barak's fault, just so you know. I just wanted to ask you... It's all your fault. What do you want? I mean, you're the guy who has control here.

What's your preference? I want to win. That's why I started playing this sport when I was a little kid. I used to cry after every loss. I don't do that anymore. But that's what I want. And, you know, when you're younger, you think you got all the time in the world and you don't realize how fast time goes. And, you know, I hope that I get the chance to at least, you know, have a chance at it again. And, you know, hopefully it's here. A goal scorer, a fighter, I don't care't care anybody in hockey they always say the same thing when things are good later in your

career still got it and you do keep it on yeah thank you thank you I got lots of years left in me guys absolutely now you're negotiating I like this is gonna be all over okay first of all the business welcome to 32 thoughts the podcast brought to you by GMC and the new Sierra AT4X. Secondly, thanks for throwing me under the bus with Eric Carlson. Like right out of the gate, my pal just throwing in the white towel. Oh, it was Merrick's fault, Eric. It was Merrick's fault. So thanks for that on Hockey Night in Canada for each.

My only real disappointment was that he didn't back the truck over you after I drove it. That's good. Right away. Just defer to me. Oh, it's all Merrick's fault. I'm just a messenger here. Great answer. Great answer from him. There's a few things that happened in that. And I want to get into a lot of it. And one of the things some people might not even be aware of, and we're going to get to that. But first of all, let's focus on the answer. The answer is I want to win. You just heard Eric Carlson of the San Jose Sharks, and we all know what this season is like for the San Jose Sharks

and what the expectations are, the new general manager, and have a look under the hood and what the future is and who's on the boat and who's not wanted on the voyage, et cetera. But what did you make of how Carlson, A, talked about wanting to win and they didn't talk about the San Jose sharks and winning. I have a couple of things on this. First of all, again, I thought it was a great answer and I really appreciated the

fact that he was blunt and honest. Yeah. Whenever you ask a question or you're on during a pregame show, you ask a question. You just hope you get a really honest answer. And there we did. We've got a very honest one and a very revealing one.

If you go back to the GM meetings, when Mike Rear was asked about Carlson and he basically came out and said, yes, if people want to talk to us about Eric Carlson, we're willing to listen. That was another situation where you ask a question, you don't know what answer you're going to get, but you're thankful that you get a question, you don't know what answer you're going to get,

but you're thankful that you get a really honest and blunt answer. And I think what we're seeing here with the Sharks and Eric Carlson is the fact that there's a group of people here, a team and a player that have said winning is the most important thing. And the question is, is it going to be here or is it going to be somewhere else? And I think that Eric Carlson and the Sharks know that if San Jose decides to take a slower path to this, then he's going to be amenable to going somewhere else. And that's what that answer was. That's what it is. Like this whole thing with Greer putting it out there, what that did was say, look, we're

open for business and we want to know, A, who's interested, and B, what are you willing to consider? It's a complicated trade, very complicated trade. So he wants to hear from teams and say, okay, are you willing to take the full contract? Are you willing to take a percentage of the contract between zero and 50? What San Jose has to say is, look look if you take x percentage of the contract well maybe what we ask for in return is different it's a public invitation to a private conversation and there are two parts that private conversation what do you want to do contract wise and what does that mean for the trade and what carlson did on saturday night first of

all he's doing it with his play he's playing great he's getting a ton of points people see that but what people also see is the attitude that is eric carlson's way of saying i'm serious about this i'm here to win and you notice what he said at the end of the interview i've got a lot of years left yep and that's his way of saying i'm not here to coast yes i've got a contract where i'm going to be collecting a lot of money but i am not here to coast i'm serious about this and that was a message mike greer sent a message message, and now Eric Carlson is sending a message. Well, that's just it. This is, if we want to break it down simply,

this is Mike Greer saying, we do it, and this is Eric Carlson saying, I'd go. And from a San Jose point of view, if you look at, listen, if San Jose eats half of the contract, and this is $ know, this is 11 and a half million dollars AAV for the next four seasons after this one. So this is sizable and this is really complicated.

But if the San Jose Sharks are going to go the way of a rebuild and, you know, a lot of established players go out the door, you know, having the quote unquote dead cap space isn't necessarily the worst thing. Like this isn't like a Minnesota situation where they still want to be competitive. They're still in it to make the playoffs and go on runs, despite the fact that they're in cap hell. I don't think that that's what this would be.

So from San Jose's point of view, I think that even eating half the contract is fine, provided that they're going to rebuild roots. Well, let me tell you a quick story. So I want to get to your question. So when I first started at Hockey Night in Canada, one of my first rinkside assignments, there was a team who had a player that was in and out of hot water, like for the, I guess, three or four weeks leading up to this game where I was working ringside. And during the walk-off interview and the first intermission,

I asked a couple of questions about the game. And then for my final question, I threw in, I asked the player what he thought of his teammate. And it was one of those, what does he owe you as a teammate, your feelings about what's happening with player X. And I could tell the player was peeved at getting asked that question, probably because that's not a normal walk-off interview type

question. And the person who was handling communications for that team afterwards, communications for that team afterwards just tore a strip out of me like pulled me aside and read the riot act up and down i told them to do that by the way i called them said look if merrick asked this goofy question like just just hammer him trash him but i think a lot of people in the industry elliot would look at you asking that question of Eric Carlson right before he's about to play and say, Ooh, that's an interesting one to ask right before a player goes on the ice. It's funny you say that. Cause actually I got a call from a former producer on Sunday about that said, did you get any complaints about that? And I said, no. And he said that, uh, when he was was producing games if a question like that got asked right like he always felt that there was teams kind of looked at if it was a scrum in the

morning or a post-game interview or a sit down or something like that then everything was fair but he always felt the teams hated if that kind of question got asked right before a game or between periods as you mentioned before um it's funny as you were saying that i remember a reporter telling me that she was once talking to a player interviewing a player between periods and asked if he was considering retiring at all at the end of the season and he like snapped at her and said you know why would you ask me that question now and the interview i don't think ever aired and like i said the producer no i got no complaints and and he said i think that's a good thing in the sense that it was a good moment it made the player

look good it made the show look good and he hopes that that's a sign that everybody's loosening up about when these questions can get asked, right? I didn't really think about that. I just kind of asked the question I wanted to ask in the moment. But I think we're all trying to make our broadcast more entertaining, right? And if you have a player who's willing to answer those kinds of questions with the kinds of answer that Carlson gave I think everybody wins I think the player wins I think the show wins and most importantly I think the audience the fans and the viewer win I was glad that Carlson reacted the way he did I thought I thought it was really good for him and the Sharks first and foremost well that's why I mentioned

Greer saying we would do it. And that's Carlson saying I'd go if you do. Like I thought it was a wonderful piece of television for, for everybody and a wonderful piece of, of information sharing for everybody. You know, I, I thought about the answer a lot driving home from hockey net on Saturday. Cause I thought it was such a wonderful moment too. And listen, I just love listening to Eric Carlson talk. Like he's, he's one of the, the, the go-to guys. And one of the things that, like we've been through this before with Roberto Luongo, my contract sucks, that famous quote from Luongo. We all understand how difficult any type of deal

for Carlson would be mainly because of the contract, which is, as I mentioned, $11.5 million a season. Now, first of all, before I ask this question, I want to address one specific person who's listening right now before I ask. If you are the person at the National Hockey League Players Association who's doing media monitoring today and you're listening to this podcast, please cover your ears. You're not going to like what I'm about to ask Elliot. So Elliot, I've always wondered about players who, after they retire,

regret never having won the Stanley Cup. And the list is long, and it's getting longer because there's not six teams anymore. There's 32. So we think of the Marcel Dion's and the Jerome McGinley's and the Gilbert Perrault's, et cetera, go right down the list. One of the things I always find interesting talking to veteran players about once they retire is, would you have played for free one season if it meant you'd have a legitimate shot at winning the Stanley cup because hearing Carlson talk about winning and thinking about his career and thinking about his place amongst, you know, the greatest defenseman of this generation.

Well, really of any generation, he's such an elite talent. I've always wondered about that. If players could say, you know, if I could do it all again, I would do one year and I would play for free. If it meant I'd have one real good shot at the cup. What do you think about that? Like my whole career play for free? No, one year.

Okay. Right at the end. Oh, yeah. We've seen players chase it, right? We've seen so many players chase it. No question. And I'm thinking about Carlson and I'm thinking about the old Luongo quote about my contract sucks and Carlson gets it.

He knows the exact situation I wonder if there's a part of him that says you know what man right now if mint I had a shot at the Stanley Cup I'd play for free right now and I hope whoever at the PA is doing media monitoring right now is not screaming at me right now I hope you still have your ears covered I would also do this

I'll play for free and if we win the cup I'll take an $11 billion bonus yeah this i'll play for free and if we win the cup i'll take an 11 billion dollar bonus yeah absolutely um well anyway that was a nice conversation and yes thanks partner uh for throwing me under the bus at your first chance so well done i wish he would have ripped you instead of me no that's good he went to you instead. I like that better. I probably deserve it more. I want to get to the Vancouver Canucks and Brock Besser as well. Your report on Saturday that he has permission to speak with other teams

to help facilitate a trade. Yeah. Sent shockwaves, not just through Vancouver, but I think all hockey markets, whether you're the Canucks and maybe looking at Brock Besser going elsewhere or another NHL team saying, hmm, we can get Brock Besser. This one was a big one and I want to get to the Canucks. And this was a, like, what an emotional day for Brock Besser, you know, shows up and he's going to be healthy scratched.

It's, you know, we all think of his father always, but certainly on Hockey Fights Cancer Night in Vancouver, if there's an injury, he draws in, he scores a game-tying goal. From thinking he'd be in the press box this morning to scoring the game-tying goal in the third period, Brock Besser fires it past Karel Vemelka. His fourth of the year ties the game at two. Wow. Petey, same thing he's been doing. He gets it up. He's got two guys on his back. He's able to make a play still. Over to Besser on the side, on the left side. Quick shot.

The Vancouver Canucks go on to defeat the Arizona Coyotes and it all works out okay. Walk us through Saturday and Brock Besser Elliott. Saturday and Brock Besser Elliott? Basically what happened was you start to call around after you hear he's going to be a healthy scratch that night. It got shaken out that way. And the Canucks weren't saying anything. And the agent who's Ben Hankinson wasn't saying anything, but it came from enough people that I knew it was true. And, you know, sometimes you just have to trust the information you get,

even if you don't get confirmation and the information was good enough. Now, I don't think he specifically asked for a trade, but I do think there's an understanding there that between the Canucks and him that it's time for a change of scenery. You know, he hasn't played great this year. At the end of the day, that's the one thing he does control. And that's the one thing that he can fix is he has to play better. He scored a big goal on Saturday night.

And how about Vemelka not understanding media narrative and not letting him score in overtime to score the winner. But, you know, he has to better, and that improves his situation. It's not going to be an easy trade for the Canucks to make. There's not a lot of teams that have the cap room to do it, and the Canucks may have to understand that if they want to make the move, they might not get the best return, but I think they do understand that. To me, there's actually a bigger story here,

and as I think about it 24 hours later, and that is that this might be the start of a dismantling. And what I think they're going to do is they're going to say, we have to create cap room. We have to change our mix. And if that means that if we trade Besser and maybe our return isn't great, we still at least create the cap room. And I think that's a possibility here. I think they're going to look at a few things

in addition to Besser. You're big on the Horvat not getting re-signed train. I don't like dealing in absolutes. I't I've seen too many things change but I definitely agree with you that it's trending that way look the deals are getting higher and higher you go Cairo you go Thomas you go Rupe Hintz this was a team that was trying to get it done I don't know in the high sixes low sevens last summer it's out of that stratosphere. And because of what happened with JT Miller, where they signed him out of nowhere at the end of the summer, I refuse to say it's 100% not going to happen, but it's definitely trending in the direction of it's not going to happen.

They're going to have to make some interesting decisions. Look, they climbed into the race last week, and they had two awful games this week. They had Washington was an awful performance. And the game will come to an end as Vancouver's winning streak comes to an end as well. It ends at three games as they open up their four-game homestand with a 5-1 loss at the hands of the Washington Capitals.

Florida was an awful performance. As the Vancouver Canucks drop their second in a row on home ice, outscored 10-2 through the first two games of the homestand. You know, Arizona really had them down until Besser got them into overtime, and then they won it on the power play. I just think that they feel that it's time to make some changes, and I think Besser is the tip of the iceberg. I just think that they feel that it's time to make some changes. And I think Besser is the tip of the iceberg.

It's trending in that direction with Horvat. I think the one guy who's going to be really interesting, because I think he's a guy who's got a lot of interest around him, is Luke Shen. I agree with that. And I think there's a real sense of there's a point to keeping Shen. And there's a real sense of i think there's going to be interest in shen he's a right hand shot he's won before he's a veteran he's a good team player he's physical he knows what he's good at i think shen's going to be a real interesting test case

for them what do they do and the other one i think when he's healthy is going to be Demko because I just think that Jim Rutherford is the kind of guy who will say if we're starting over a little bit here does it make sense to keep Demko when there's teams out there that need goalies so the big story from Saturday is Besser but I think the bigger story might be what this just means for the Canucks. One other thing I wanted to say, the whole thing on Saturday, Bruce Boudreau as a coach has a reputation of really looking out for his players and trying to treat his players really well. He comes out on Saturday night and he says... Did you wait to know the fact that it was hockey fight's cancer night?

Didn't even know. I didn't even know. I mean, that, honest to goodness, it didn't, in my mind, it was last night I made up my mind. And so, I mean, when I came in today, I didn't even think about it until they were talking about it after practice about it. And I think when you look at Bruce Boudreaux's history,

he tends to be really on top of what is meaningful for his players. I just think that shows you the incredible pressure that he feels under, that he would miss that. Because it just seems weird to me that Boudreaux, who's a guy who's really in tune with his players wouldn't be on top of something like that to me it shows the stress that he's under yep like look like you look at the minutes played by some of their top players in that game he he's going all out to win that game because he needs W's yeah the other thing too and someone

pointed this out to me if you listen to Besser in his postgame for Saturday night, he says that he sees his name on the board is not playing. Someone sent me a note and they said, what Besser is saying there is that someone has to tell me face-to-face that he shouldn't find out he's not playing on a board that he should be told that's fair i think i've told this story before i remember in a playoff game with the canadians glenn metropolit furious during a game where he was scratched and it wasn't that he was scratched i mean i'm sure he was mad about that too but he was mad that he was scratched. I mean, I'm sure he was mad about that too, but he was mad that he was told by the goalie

coach. Right. I remember calling PJ who was broadcasting back at the studio. I was still a ringside reporter then. And I remember calling PJ and I said, can you give me some advice here? Like, what is that? And he goes, that's terrible. It shouldn't be up to the goalie coach.

year like what is that he goes that's terrible it shouldn't be up to the goalie coach so i think that besser in this situation he's not only upset he's getting scratched but he's also upset that he found out by looking at it on the board and this whole thing to me it's just really weird jeff Jeff because I just think that Boudreaux's way generally is to be very mindful of the players and to me that shows the incredible amount of stress around him and the organization that a detail like that would be left out like I'll you this. I don't think anybody in the organization would be upset that a more named player was scratched because they haven't played very well. And like we said, they had a bad week. But I think the player was upset,

not only about the fact it was Hockey Fights Cancer Night, which is very meaningful to the Besser family, but also because he said he saw it on the board, and evidently he wasn't told directly. On that, we'll hit a break. More 32 Thoughts in a moment. Listen to 32 Thoughts, the podcast, ad-free on Amazon amazon music included with prime

elliot you know what i learned about you today uh-oh yes i learned that you have a problem with a word and that word is imminent yes and i don't think i'm the only one okay why so this word needs to be changed in the nhl rule book because it's too confusing okay there was a goal disallowed in vancouver arizona and it's jack studniko way to center with speed stuck nika right wing into the arizona end with a toe drag into the slot draws a hook played it back in front for Neal Zobod who scores. The net had been knocked off its moorings. But the Canucks are going to argue that this should count

because one of the Coyote defenders pushed it off and Zobod shot it into the space where the net would have been. There was also a delayed call against Arizona. And the two referees, Chris Rooney and Brandon Schrader, are going to have to chat about what they want to do here. But the Canucks are celebrating as if they've scored. And you can understand why because Oman gets his own rebound and shoots it. Yes.

Because the league felt it took too long after the net was off the moorings for Vancouver to score. And they'll hope that they're rewarded with a goal as we hear now from referee Chris Rooney. After video review, the net was knocked off well prior to the puck being shot in. No goal. The net goes off as the first shot is saved. When that puck went in, the four of us who were working, Ron, Jennifer, Kelly, and myself, we all said, that's a goal. And when they said no goal, I called the situation room and I said, you know, what's the deal?

And they said too long. And it was a rebound that goes in. It's basically that when the net goes off, the player is not really in the act of shooting, right? The net goes off, he picks it up and he scores. And my personal feeling, that should be a goal. And the more I thought about it and the more I looked at the rule book, and I understood.

If you look at Mark Giordano's goal when Toronto scored against Buffalo, it's the first shot. It's his direct shot goes in. So I kind of understand that. It's to carry through. It's to carry through. The shot was already there, and then that went off its moorings and it followed through and it went in or he's about to shoot or in the act of shooting whatever yeah but the thing is and people are

right about this they look at the rule book and it says imminent and if you'll remember the play with connor hellebuck in dallas and jason robertson yeah the rule book says imminent but it was about four seconds and nobody was in the act of shooting on that Hellebuck play. They put it around the net. They pass Robertson scores. And on this one, I mean, he's right there. He's got a glorious chance to score. He's right there, even if he hasn't shot the puck yet.

And so I understand why fans would say, wait second wait a second that goal in vancouver is more imminent than the one with dallas and winnipeg now i know some of you vancouver fans were complaining well toronto scored no one cares about is toronto take your central canadian hatred away from here for two minutes okay we all know you guys hate central canada we get it we understand but the toronto thing that's perfectly legitimate and nobody has a reason to complain about it i think if the vancouver fans have any complaint even if it's the net off versus the mask off it's the imminent nature of the scoring threat. Like that scoring threat, Vancouver, Arizona is much more imminent than the one Dallas, Winnipeg. Is that, hang on.

But the thing is, that just all comes back to that's how you feel about it. And this is one of the reasons why. No, it is not imminent. Imminent is such a relative word though, because what seems imminent to you might not seem what's imminent to someone else much like and i've we've talked about this before too okay this is cutting you off i'm cutting you off no i'm cutting you off i'm ending this argument and i'll tell you why why because imminent in one case was what four seconds dallas winnipeg what was it four seconds from the mask came off to the puck went in the

net i think it was probably whatever it was it was more than vancouver arizona and a lot more yeah that's fine so that is you can make the argument it was an unbroken sequence i saw black panther with my son on sunday yeah so that was like a black panther level explosive to your argument you have you have no argument no here's the argument that the sequence hadn't been broken with the dallas stars if there was a broken sequence then you could say okay the goal was no longer imminent but the sequence wasn't broken that is a terrible argument then tell me why it's a terrible it is not sequence i know i'm still a credit and a half shy of my english degree from western yeah but imminent has nothing to do with sequence imminent means about to happen or close to happening what did what did we talk about last

time if we have a situation where you know it's going to be three seconds you have to score within three seconds of the net coming off or the goaltender losing his mask. All of a sudden then, we have now video review for how long it took. No. I have a solution. Okay, what? I have a solution.

Because everyone's going to have their stopwatch and say, actually, that was three and a half seconds. It shouldn't count. No, no, no. Because you know that's where it's going to go. You know that's where it'll go, Elliot. I'm not doing that. I'm channeling my inner Colin Campbell here and saying,

Elliot, this is law of unintended consequences. This is where it's going to go. I have a solution. I realized that I'm not going to be like one of those people who screams about everything and doesn't have a solution. I'm going to come with a solution. You treat it like a delayed penalty. Okay, so as soon as a sequence. You treat it like a delayed penalty. Okay.

So as soon as a sequence is broken, then you stop. Yes. But that was my argument for Dallas. And you said you didn't like it. The chain of passing to shooting wasn't broken. No, no,

no, no. I'm talking about, but the other team has to touch the puck. That's what I mean. When Hellebuck went down, Dallas kept firing the puck around and then scored. But I was okay with

that because it's the way it's been called in the past now i've got a problem with that goal being disallowed on saturday night because it took too long like i understand as a fan and there are a bunch of fans they're tweeting at me they don't like the explanation which is perfectly fine yeah after seeing those plays next to each other and the word imminent in use in both those cases, logically it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. How about if we go to the criteria that I think we both like, which is how would you

feel if that was a disallowed Stanley Cup winner? I would have hated if that goal would have been disallowed in the Stanley Cup final. I didn't like it on Saturday night. I understood why they reviewed it and made that call i just disagree with the way it's phrased okay we'll throw this one to the court of public opinion tweet at us dm us because we all know that twitter polls are completely accurate to how human life is thought about here's the thing about it that is good whether it's uh tweets or dms or emails i want other people's opinions i just don't want yes or no because

there's plenty of stuff that i'm sure we're missing right now and someone can fill in the blanks but my point is is that i understood why the dallas goal. I explained it at the time. I know a lot of people don't like it, but I understood why that counted. Yeah, the chain continued. I understood why this one didn't count, but I disagree with it. I think if you're going to use the word imminent and you can have a goal scored

four seconds after Mahalo Buck's mask comes off or whatever it is that vancouver goal which was lying in the crease as the net went off should have counted if that didn't count in game seven of a stanley cup final how would you feel no i'd feel robbed 100 okay i would feel robbed a couple things i want to get to and i do want to park a little bit of time to talk about jordan binnington oh my goodness but your thoughts on jacob truba and your thoughts on well first of all the rangers lose the chicago blackhawks like something's happening with the rangers here it's it's been a while now yeah um so truba steps up on uh andreas athanasiu in the neutral zone

oh he's lined up and nailed by truba zone. You know, once upon a time, every team had a couple of guys like this now there are very few so players like jacob truba stand out yep truba heads off to the ranger locker room slams his helmet you see him screaming at the bench and there's no life on the bench he's trying to get his team going afterwards andrea sathanisiu says i'm paraphrasing here that uh you know jacob truba is you know noted for his high hits he's trying to hurt people out there that's what he does you know that's how he tries to make a difference trying to hurt guys on the other team again that's not the exact quote i'm paraphrasing i think i'm pretty close max tomey wouldn't even talk about him i got no comment on that guy. Fine. So they're hot, obviously.

I thought Luke Richardson's comments were really interesting. And some might look at this and say, that's an old school take. No, no. You know, I think nowadays there's not a lot of that. So players used to know and talk about it. You know, so-and-so is on the ice. Keep your head up. There's not a lot of that anymore.

So maybe after tonight there will be but the thing is and maybe it's as simple as age jeff but i agree with richardson like i understand why athens he was upset he got hit it's kind of my way of like everybody's entitled to think what they want to think but richardson's right that is not an illegal hit no those used to be hits like you know richardson talked about it where you go back to the bench and the veteran comes down the the bench and says keep your head up when truba's out there like i think sometimes we're because we're so seduced by the skill of the game and the premium is put on the skill of the game we forget this is a really dangerous game yeah this is like really fast players on a 1 8th

inch blade of steel like going and they're all like 200 pounds and they're all ripped up like bad report cards like these guys are tough man and when you get caught it is billiard balls colliding there's no rubbing someone out these are collisions elliot and there are some guys and it's really hard to do that's another thing we should point out too. Clean hits are hard. Say what you want about Trouba. That was a clean hit on Nathan Asiyu. And that's a really hard thing to do.

And a lot of guys don't do it because if you chase for a hit and you miss, all of a sudden it's an odd man rush and you get back to the bench and you hear it from the coach and you don't try to do it again, which is what makes, you know, players like Sider or Trouba that much more special, that they can do it jack-eye, that they can do it consistently and not put themselves out of position. Buffalo and San Jose on Sunday. We saw Timo Meier go at Rasmus Dahlin, and he missed him.

Great move by Dahlin to get out of the way. Timo Meier puts himself out of the play, and the Buffalo Sabres start the rush, and Timo Meier's swimming in the Sabres' own end. And then we saw Rasmus Deline, as Matt Nieto cut in from the right side, lay a textbook, gorgeous body check that brought everyone at Key Bank to their feet.

Fed ahead by the Sharks. Here's Nieto down the right to cross the line. He gets throttled by Rasmus Deline, that brought everyone at Key Bank to their feet. And here comes Cunningham coming back for Darlene. Darlene knocked him down. And Cunningham wants a piece of Rasmus Darlene after Darlene throttled Matt Nieto. Well, this game's going to hopefully take another edge here as it was actually Logan Gauture who went after Darlene as well. And you know what that is? That's real hard to do. Like Darlene evading Timo Meier,

who's one of the best power forwards in the game, and then clobbering, legally, Matt Nieto. That was a masterclass by Rasmus Delene on Sunday. Great hit. But I have no problem with that Jacob Truba hit and the lion's share of Jacob Truba hits. I don't have any problem with either for each. What Richardson said is what I agree with.

Again, I understand why the players are mad they're not used to this anymore no there's just not enough guys who do it anymore so the one guy who does it or the couple of guys who do it really stand out and that's it now the one thing i i thought it was actually more interesting truba gets the penalty and he flings his helmet. So Truba fought twice this weekend. He had an all-timer on Friday night against Brady Kachuk, who really had an unbelievable weekend.

Down to five minutes remaining, second period, and now Kachuk and Truba drop the gloves at center ice. The two captains, Jacob Truba and Brady Kachuk. That was a center ice spotlight fight. Yeah.

Like that was, if you're into those things, that was the fight of the year so far. Kachuk's helmet goes flying. Both players to the ice. And the fans on their feet. Yeah, Kachuk had an unbelievable weekend. He did. He had the fight, the two goals,

and then he clobbered Carlson in the game on Saturday, on the first shift. But Gerard Gallant indicated that Trouba is hurt. And I really wonder if he should be fighting I wonder if his injury is or at least one of them anyway he probably shouldn't be fighting but he's doing it to get his team going I can't prove it I don't know it for sure but I suspect it that fighting is something he shouldn't be doing with it but he's saying to hell with it. Our season is in trouble and I'm going to do this.

And I think that's one of the reasons he was so angry on Saturday night because he's doing it while he's hurt and they're just not going anywhere. All right. So what about the Rangers then? Because there's Trouba trying to fire up his squad, chucking the helmet, let's go boys, enough of this. I'm laying my body on the line here. You guys all know what's ailing me.

Let's get back into this thing. What's happening with the Rangers for each? There's a lot of players who are very important for them going into the Stanley Cup semifinals last year that haven't started very well. And obviously that's a major problem i had rangers fans in my dms have you heard anything with us and trots the answer is is no i i haven't heard anything like that the only thing that i i wonder about with them is

and i think drury is trying to be patient here he understands that it's a very hard league to trade in right now I think he's trying to be patient the only thing I ever wonder about there is the owner you know a couple years ago we all thought that the Rangers were going in the right direction and James Dolan was like nope I don like this. We're getting pushed around too much. We're making changes. And that's the only thing I ever think about with him. I think Drury has a plan. I think he knows what he wants to do, but you have an owner there who, when he makes up his mind to do something, he's a tough guy to stop. And that's the only thing I really think about is, does the owner look at this and say,

I'm not liking what I'm seeing. So someone else making headlines, Elliot, for the, as we may borrow a clockwork orange word, ultraviolence. Jordan Binnington of the St. Louis Blues. Whether it's trying the cold shoulder on Jordan Stahl. Harms way in here is the hit of the night right here. Bang!

Good technique, goes shoulder to chest. Stahl's like, what are you doing? Shen actually came back over. I think Shen thought that Stahl ran him over. That's not the case. It was initiated by Binnington. Well, Binnington is listed as 172 pounds, and Stahl is at least 220.

And he initiated that. I think you're right. Stahl was one of the wooden. The heck is that? Technique was excellent. It was. Or reaching his glove around to scrape the face of Jason Zucker in the Penguins game on Saturday. In nine career games, get the blues and look out.

He got clipped pretty hard there by Bennington. Nobody saw it. Jason Suckerdown. Now they are pointing at the goaltender, Bennington. The referee looked around as if he didn't notice anything. Now I think he's been tipped off, maybe by the linesman, that he's going to have to make a call here. Your thoughts on what we've seen with Jordan Bennington.

And by the way, as you can hear from these quotes from Craig Berube, his head coach, not amused. Kind of back to work. Got to be better. Everybody. Goalie too. Yeah. It's not good enough.

Was this a case of Jordan just getting frustrated there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. And it's got to stop. That doesn't help anything. Pardon me?

Doesn't help anything. Yeah, would you like him just to be more even? Yeah, just play goal, stop the puck. All you have to do is listen to what Berube just had to say there. You know, the thing is, too, is that Bennington was lucky he didn't get killed by Jordan Stahl. That's a big man. If you're Berube here, you're saying, look, stop the puck.

Worry about that. But I'm also concerned he's my number one goalie. What if he gets hurt? Not only what if he gets hurt doing it, what if someone's just fed up with him? Well, I think on some level with him, you have to understand with Biddington that that's part of who he is, right?

Yeah. But this is Berube, one of the toughest players ever to play the game, saying you've gone too far. Enough of this. My question is though, why now? Because it's happened twice this week. Just because it's back-to-back games? Because as you mentioned, when you have Jordan Bennington in your lineup, isn't that just sort of baked into the pie?

But there has to be a limit. There always has to be a governor. Yeah. Well, there's times you're out there and your job is to play. Okay. His number one job is to stop pucks. And like you said,

it's baked into the pie. Sometimes you're going to understand, but you're not going to understand it twice in one week you're not going to understand it in a week where you've lost 6-4 to carolina and 6-2 to pittsburgh back to back i'm sorry you're you're not putting up with that now and plus you're in a battle to make the playoffs. You need Binnington to be focused on the number one thing that he's supposed to do, which is stop the puck. Look at St. Louis' losses this year. 6-2 to Pittsburgh, 6-4 to Carolina, 4-1 to Dallas, 5-2 to Tampa,

6-2 to Buffalo, 5-1 to Philadelphia, 3-1 to Boston, to Buffalo, 5-1 to Philadelphia, 3-1 to Boston, 5-2 to the Islanders, 7-4 to Montreal, 5-1 to the Kings, 6-2 to the Predators, 3-1 to Edmonton, 4-0 to Winnipeg. You notice a trend there? Every single loss by at least two goals. You can't be having Binnington worry about evening scores or collecting pelts. You got to worry about stopping the puck. And the fact that it comes from someone of Berube's stature,

the guy who played the way he did, it's triply meaningful. Okay, so Elliot, we talked about this on Saturday on Hockey Night, and that is the All-Star game. And you reported that there is a lot of interest, I believe, both from teams and from the league to take this thing back to Canada. year the all-star game was in florida last year vegas the season before that it was st louis i think st louis was owed an all-star game for something and that made the most sense to have it there before that it was you know san jose it was los angeles so it's been in um some warmer climates let's just say and i'm of the belief that the nhl is of the belief that it's time to go North again. Your report, Canada interested.

Well, first of all, I'm going to get about 20 of the cities in the NHL furious at me with this one right now. So prepare your anger. I'm giving you five seconds to get ready. Are you sufficiently charged up? Everybody's sitting down. I know what Elliot's going to charged up? Everybody's sitting down. I know what Elliot's going to drop here. Is everyone sitting down? Have you prepared your fainting couches?

I heard that there was one suggestion made that the All-Star game should be a rotation of seven to ten teams that players would want to go to and that other cities should be dropped. Dropped from consideration forever. Consideration. First of all, I should say, I don't know that the NHL agrees with this proposal,

but I heard it was suggested. And I heard that rotation included Anaheim, San Jose, Nashville, Los Angeles, Vegas, Dallas, Florida and Tampa, the Rangers, Montreal and Toronto. That's what I heard it was. And some people are going to mention Arizona, not until they get a new building. But I think if Arizona got a new building, yes, they would be included in that. And that's going to make a lot of people really angry if you didn't hate this podcast before you're certainly going to hate it now after hearing that

but i believe that suggestion was made i don't think the nhl wants to do that but i i think it was made but you're right i think there's generally a feeling that this has not been in a colder weather climate for too long. And I do think that there are at least three Canadian cities who are interested. Edmonton has a new arena. They would like to have events there. Now, I think Edmonton is supposed to get the outdoor game next year. Not the New Year's Day one, but a Canadian one. So I'm not sure what that would mean, but I would bet Edmonton would love to have an

All-Star game too. To a Heritage Classic. Yeah, Heritage Classic, right? Thank you. You know, you said on Saturday night, Montreal loves to host everything. Yes. And they want to host everything. And they're good at hosting these things.

Yes. The draft was a fifth deck home run last year. Yes. You know, Montreal basically said, we'll do the draft was a fifth deck home run last year yes you know montreal basically said we'll do the draft every year yeah they would love to do it every year and montreal would love to be involved but as you said i think there's a feeling they just had something i do wonder jeff and i know you have a bit of a stronger feeling than i do but i do wonder if toronto is there i know they are interested yeah the main reason why do wonder if Toronto is there. I know they are interested. Yeah.

The main reason why I wonder that too is, you know, this is the replacement for their international tournament, the World Cup of Hockey. Toronto is going to be one of the anchor cities. It was going to be there for the semifinals and the finals. They'd already gone down the road. The last time the All-Star game was in Toronto would have been in 2000. And if they're bringing the All-Star Act north of the border,

I'm of the belief that Toronto would get big time consideration. I would agree with that. And to me, it makes a lot of sense. Vancouver just had a draft. You mentioned the Edmonton building. I think Ottawa is going to start to get some, because these are cookies sometimes too,

right from the NHL. So if you have a new building, Hey, you know, Ottawa has got one on the horizon. And, uh, is this going to be a,

a cookie for someone that buys the team? Hey, purchase the Ottawa senators. And, you know, we're going to throw in an, an all-star game, or we're going to throw in the draft.

Well, listen, what did the commissioner just say in Tempe last week? We'd look at holding our tentpole events here, whether it's a draft or whether it's the all-star game, if we can get this one into the end zone. So I just wonder if this is the replacement for Toronto for missing out on being an anchor city for the World Cup of Hockey.

That would make a lot of sense to me. Yeah. Okay, sticking with Canada, Elliot, you and I had a brief conversation and kind of said, let's talk about this on the podcast. Winnipeg Jets changing the mix. Now, I want to point one thing out. So the Winnipeg Jets beat the Anaheim Ducks on Sunday.

Winnipeg didn't exactly come out of the gate hot. As a matter of fact, it was the opposite. And Rick Bonas said, Listen, I'm the head coach, so I'm responsible for the way we start in getting our team prepared. So that starts with me. The second thing is I'm not a babysitter. These guys are men, they're professionals,

and they're paid to show up ready to go to work. My job is to make that happen. I don't know if I believe that, Elliot. Are you calling Rick Bonas a liar on this podcast? I think you are. I heard that. All I'm saying is... Did everybody hear that?

Bonas is a liar. We're going to make that the title, Amal. I think what Rick Bonas is doing there is being a player's coach and saying, yeah, these guys stunk early and that's my fault. It's interesting talking to people about bad starts for teams. Some will say, oh, it's a coach's job

to have the players prepared. Others will say, Elliot, no, no, no. You're a professional. You're a player. You start on time. That's when your job begins. That's what I believe. That's what you believe?

Yes. If I have a bad broadcast, which has never happened, but if I have a bad broadcast, I will never blame the producer. I'll always blame the producer. Like when I'm bad on this podcast, it's Amel's fault. Saturdays, it's Spearzy. Oh, yeah. Radio, it's Matty Marchese.

Oh, yeah. It's never me falling on the sword. No way. And Kevin and Kelly said that a couple weeks ago on Hockey Night when a team started poorly. They said, it's not the coach's fault. You're supposed to be ready to play on time. And I feel the same way too. I agree with you. It's the same thing that's going in New York right now. I was reading some of the stories about the Rangers the last couple of days and, and Galan's defending

them and says, we're getting better. We're getting better. You know, you can feel the hydraulic press coming down on you, right right you're going to say oh yeah we're playing better and people know that's not necessarily true but you've got enough pressure internally that you don't need to turn it up outside too that's what that is winnipeg won again big against anaheim and we you and i have been talking i think it's been more on your show as opposed to this podcast just about you know you have to talking, I think it's been more on your show as opposed to this podcast, just about, you know, you have to change your coaches every few years. Right. And someone called me up this morning and said, they were thinking about that when they were watching

Winnipeg, you know, I don't know what number Rick bonus was in the order for the Winnipeg jets. Was he number two behind Barry trots? Was he number three behind Barry Trotz and someone else? I don't know what the answer is to that, but I don't think he was the first choice. And it's worked out really well for him that he has because it does feel much different there. They still have Hellebuck having a monster season and the money puck goal

save above expectations ranking he's right at the top with sorokin and vamelka like those three are having incredible seasons and a great goalie solves a lot of problems and this person called me and he said he's a player he said that him and some of his teammates have been talking about that a lot and the other thing he said was it shows how much you have to respect what the lightning have done because they have had the coach and most of the core together now for basically a decade and they're still winning and he said that's really hard to do you know saw the other night Stamkos gets his, all the gifts for his 1000th point, right? And Cooper and Stamkos did not have a great relationship for a while, but they found a way to make it work. And very successfully,

the rising tide floats all boats. How much better do we all think of Cooper and Stamkos because they've got two championships and we're two wins away from another one? And so he said it makes him respect the Lightning even more, but he looks at Winnipeg this year and he says, look, I don't think Paul Maurice is a bad coach, but I think it was time. And as a player, he says that one of the things he's thought about a lot

is how important it is for a team to recognize it's time, whether it's the coach or your players, how one change, whether of a coach or a core player, can breathe new life into your room. And he sees that in Winnipeg. And he doesn't see that as necessarily blame on the old coach, but he sees it as it was just time for a new message. And look how rejuvenated they look.

And when I watch Winnipeg, I think about that a lot. And Jeff, the last thing I want to say is we talked briefly about Brady Kachuk and what a great week he had. Yeah. I watched the condensed game of Ottawa and San Jose. Cause I, when you're watching five games in a

night, you don't really get to watch it as closely as you'd like to. And you know, especially when, you know, I'm on the panel, so I'm not paying attention to any games, but that Ottawa building was crazy on Saturday night. It sure was. And everybody appreciated it, including obviously the coach. Unreal.

It had that Boston feel of game one. Kudos to the fans and the crowd that gave us that energy. If it's a dead crowd or maybe there's not enough fans here tonight, maybe we don't find this gear. And I think the guys felt that buzz in there felt it right from the the anthem on out so this week the data room opens up for the ottawa centers or at least it's supposed to and the data room is basically an online portal where you can go into and look at the finances of the centers now not anybody can just do this for those of you who are getting ideas you have to put down a security deposit and you also have to put sign an nda

and like i was watching that game on sunday the condensed game and i was saying what a great game to have for any potential buyer like We have talked about this Sanders team, that they are a bit of a sleeping giant and there's new ownership coming and they've locked up a lot of their players and we know that they're working to get a new arena and the optimism's there. This is a market that is ready to burst and you couldn't have had a better advertisement for selling this team after what it's been through than that game on saturday night elliot you remember well what that building was like when it was Spezza and Alfredson and have lat and Phillips and Redden and, and Chris Neal and, and, and, and, and, and, and you remember what that was like, Elliot, it was insane.

It was a great place to be for hockey. That team was awesome. And the fans were right there with it. It was fantastic. i think those players deserve a lot of credit because they could have folded on their season they could have folded on their head coach and they could have folded on their season and they didn't do it honestly i think a lot of it's the guy you already mentioned that's brady kachuk well he has to be he's the leader right he's an old school easy to like leader it's like watching his dad kind of is like i was gonna ask you that is this the weekend where the first time where brady kachok really felt like keith it sure reminded me of him yeah like you always wonder like you always wait to see an athlete hit his or her stride

was this the weekend that we really saw brady kachok hit his stride and who hit his stride in the kachok family better than Big Walt? I just wonder. It looked like this was the first time we said like, wow, he is his dad. Alright, get it before it's gone. Visit the Sportsnet shop to get your 32 Thoughts merchandise.

That's hoodies that's teas crew necks even a coffee mug that changes color when you fill it up with your go-to warm beverage visit www.shopsportsnet.store to get your 32 gear today www.shopsportsnet.store. Okay, Elliot, let's finish up here with a couple of voicemails, and we'll start with an email. Devin in Squamish, BC. Okay, I love this. Because of the preface.

You said there were no dumb questions. I thought i would throw this one out there this first of all this is not a dumb question and please again only reporters ask dumb questions that's right just ask john tortorella on saturday night you're asking me dumb questions guys really dumb questions jesus okay can you explain what being put on waivers slash clearing waivers means sure so basically what waivers are is you can't keep sending someone down to the minors without giving them a chance to play in the nhl somewhere else somewhere else somewhere else that's right so there's basically a clock if you're on an entry level, it depends on how old you are when you first sign, but there's a certain amount of time you spend or a certain amount of games that you play before you become waiver eligible. And that means you can't be sent down to the minors without being offered to every other team in the league.

So if you're on an entry-level contract, for example, and they send you down to the minors, you don't have to be made available for waivers. But after a certain amount of time, again, depending on what age you are when you sign, before you can be sent down to the minors, you have to be put on waivers. And the order is reverse order of points percentage.

So the worst team in the league gets the first shot at you. And that way, you can't go down to the monitors without every other team in the league having an opportunity to say, we want to give this guy a shot. And if there's multiple claims, the team with the worst record gets you. Now, the funny thing about this is it was put into the CBA, I believe, that teams technically can't be told and agents can't be told if there were multiple claims like if if someone goes down to the minors there's five

claims you're not supposed to know who they were because it would be it would help your negotiation it drives me crazy because i ask this stuff all the time but it just means i have to work a little harder it is like catnip though and that when you when you find out a piece like i i'm of the belief that when bris gallop was placed on waivers i think detroit put in a claim like every now and then like you get a little bit of a a nugget a little information puck and it's like oh you found out who made a claim who put in a claim for the player um devon great question that was not a bad question at all not okay uh voicemail i can knock this one this one down easy for you elliot so put your feet up on this one this is reese in edmonton hey it's reese from edmonton i had a question about whl and AHL leagues, so any league below the AHL.

If there's a potentially franchise player playing on one of those teams and the team sucks, would there be encouragement from the AHL or teams in the AHL to move that player to a better team so they could develop better or quicker? Thanks, Elliot, Amel, and Jeff. Podcast is great. Thanks. Yes, and it's happened a number of different times. We strongly suspect that if Shane Wright gets sent back to junior in Kingston, that he'll

be traded almost immediately to a contender. And let's not forget, too, that Kingston wants the Memorial Cup next year as well, and they could help move their program along quickly with a big trade. The other one that I'm not sure if people know about is Alex Petrangelo. And you'll remember this one, Elliot, when he was sent down to junior,

the Ice Dogs had his rights, and the St. Louis Blues essentially said, we'll send him down if he gets traded to a contender. So he can go and have a long playoff run. And at that time, the Ice Dogs weren't exactly a good team. And so he got traded to the Barry Colts in exchange for Ryan Strom, now of the Anaheim Ducks. So yes, Reese, great question.

It's happened plenty before and strongly suspect that if Shane Wright goes that direction it'll happen again i also remember a situation where i don't want to say who the player was because he's still in the nhl and i i don't know if he would want it so i'll just use the example but i do remember one high pick he was a top 10 pick not a top two pick but a top 10 pick who wasn't sent down by his team because the NHL team didn't like the coaching he was receiving at his junior team. I believe that. And the junior team refused to trade him.

So he said, if you won't trade him, we won't send him down. Yep. I do remember that happening. I believe that 100%. Okay, final voicemail for the podcast today. Let's get to Nico. Hi, this is Nico from Virginia calling.

My question is this. Could a player on a two way deal, if they were say suspended for two games, get sent down to the AHL and be able to play? Or is there some clause between the two leagues where if a player is suspended in one, they are suspended in the other? Thanks, guys. Love the podcast.

Great job. Jeff, Amal, Elliot, we'll talk when you get that beard situation figured out. Thanks. Ooh, I like the Elliot shots. This is a really good question. First of all, and you can color this one in, Elliott, you can send the player to the American League, but the problem is you're not burning off the suspension.

You still have to be with the NHL team to serve those two games. To the point about respecting suspensions, as much as there is an overlap when it comes to the American Hockey League and the NHL, they are still very much their own leagues. Like it isn't an automatic that the American Hockey League would honor an NHL suspension. For most, they probably wouldn't, and the player would be free to play in the American Hockey League. He wouldn't be burning off his NHL suspension.

Now, what I do believe is that goes case by case, Elliot, and that the player safety department in the American Hockey League in association with Scott Housen would review. If there was something significant, more than just like a run-of-the-mill suspension and that caused, you know, undue harm to another player, someone both on or off the ice, that the American Hockey League does have the right to uphold the NHL suspension

and not allow that player to play in their league. The other way as well, players that are under American Hockey League suspension can still go up and play in the NHL. And we think last season, Bokanji Amama, who was suspended in the American Hockey League, was called up by the Arizona Coyotes and made his NHL debut while he was still under AHL suspension. Well, actually, I was going to refer that

because it wasn't Amama I was going to mention. It also happened with Luke Witkowski. Luke Witkowski was suspended December 2021 in the AHL for two games, and he was called up by the Red Wings. So it does happen. You got some good questions today. You know, I got to say, our audience,

they ask great questions. I know, unlike us. And I don't think our audience will fire their partners under the bus before they ask a superstar NHLer a question. But, you know,

you're a little bit different than everybody else, Elliot. Taking us out today, a band from Denver, Colorado. By the way, thanks to everyone who tuned in today, as always.

A band from Denver, Colorado that is named after a popular Beatles song, Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds. The very psychedelic sound, Lucy Daydream, have dropped a pair of full-length records over the last few years. From their latest album, Dream Machine, here's Lucy Daydream with Drippy on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Enjoy. What the fuck am I waiting for? Someone to push me back I'm low, I don't wanna move forward Stuck in past I'll play games with my mind Waiting for the silence

If I get my cards right I don't have to use violence Now I'm in circles with myself Here we go, here we go, here we go, here we go Cause they're in the upper hitting Down, down, down, down, down, down, down, down Here we go Cause they're in the upper getting down Down, down, down, down, down, down, down, down, down Who the fuck am I waiting for? All I have is myself