32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Is Lindy Ruff on the Hot Seat?

Episode Date: December 22, 2023

Jeff and Elliotte discuss why, despite the New Jersey Devils' struggles, it wouldn't make sense for them to make a coaching change right now. They dive into a penalty filled affair between Vegas and Tampa on Thursday night and they throw out some of their favourite Hart Trophy candidates (27:25). Elliotte expands on some questions about the future of Frederik Andersen in Carolina (37:55) and also talks about Nolan Patrick's future in hockey (40:57). The guys discuss John Gruden (the hockey one) possibly becoming the Head Coach of the Ottawa Senators (45:55) and touch on Devon Toews going after his own players through the media (48:21). Jeff and Elliotte wrap the podcast by vouching for Jaromir Jagr to be eligible for the Hockey Hall of Fame now, rather than in another three years after he suited up for Kladno again (1:19:47).The guys answer your questions in the Montana’s Thought Line (56:31).Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Montana's Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Okay, before we get going here on 32 Thoughts to Podcast, a quick programming note. This will be the last podcast until next Friday, which just means we're taking one podcast off. We hope you're enjoying the holiday season with your family and friends. We hope to do the same here. I know we're lazy, we're slackers, etc, etc, etc. This podcast returns next Friday. Enjoy the best of the holiday season, everybody. etc this podcast returns next friday enjoy the best of the holiday season everybody welcome once again to 32 thoughts the podcast presented as always by the gmc sierra and elliot i don't know about you but it doesn't seem like anybody in the nhl except for you interestingly enough who are lovely christmas green on the television tonight on the magic

eyeball loved seeing that uh no one is really in a good mood no one really seems happy oh no everybody seems edgy everybody seems angry everybody seems cranky uh we had a lot to choose from uh from thursday night taunting was off the charts on thursday night too what What was the bigger taunt? Washington towards Elvis Merzlikens or the Buffalo Sabres playing You Make My Dreams Come True by Hall & Oates as they're smashing the Toronto Maple Leafs? I was going to say the social media one was the bigger taunt simply because the music was played in the building and it's subtle, right? They're playing the Leafs. That is not, you and it's subtle right they're playing the leaves that is not you think that's subtle yes i'll tell you compared to what the capitals did it's subtle i can't

believe you would think that was subtle well compared to what the capitals did it absolutely was subtle because it's just in the building and people have to notice it right they're not it's not like they're putting it on a social media page the capitals picked the most egregious photo of them all staring at mers leakens and threw it onto the internet. That's a sledgehammer. That's not subtle. The song with 65 seconds left in the blowout game, and it's the song that the Leafs fans hate and want to get rid of. Yes. That is more subtle.

All I could think about as I'm watching that, because the Leafs are getting demolished. 9-3 is the final score. And at the key bank, they start playing that song. All I could think about is, this would make a great playoff series. If just the Buffalo Sabres could get there. If just the Buffalo Sabres could get their act together to get there, Toronto and Buffalo,

with these two rosters, could be a glorious seven-game series, Elliot. Yes, it's been too long. Last time they played in a plow series was 1999 on the Sabres route to the Stanley Cup final and that series was over too quick it just didn't last five games yep yep Maple Leafs got goalied in that one very much um and then Buffalo got foot in the crease uh in the subsequent series against the Dallas Stars. Let's start with that Buffalo-Toronto game. This is the game that you worked with Justin, Nick, and David.

There's a lot of stories coming out of this one. The nine spot put up by Buffalo after surrendering nine to Columbus earlier this week, but Samsonov getting pulled, I guess, is one of the more dominant stories coming out of this one. To say nothing of it and we should congratulate buffalo on a really good bounce back game but samson off let's start there and see where we end up so 9-3 loss samson off gives up an ugly goal early a bad one he makes a

great save on a shorthanded chance it looks like he's rebounding and then you know Jeff what really happened was he was swimming you know he was sliding he was losing his net you could really see that it was going to be a rough night for him he just didn't have it and you'll remember a week ago they're down five nothing after two to Columbus and I thought for sure he's coming out of the game. And the goalie coach, Curtis Sanford, we find out later, says, no, we want Ilya to battle with the rest of the team. And they eventually got that game to overtime where they lost. So I just assumed the same thing was going to happen.

It was 3-2 after one. He didn't have a good period. But I wasn't surprised in the least bit. He came out for the second. And then all of a sudden it's five to three. The fifth one had a real odor to it and he was gone. And, you know, Jeff, it's Christmas. I wore the Christmas sweater.

I don't celebrate Christmas, but I'm a festive guy. Like it's a nice time of year. I want people to be happy. I want people to, you know, it's not a lot of snow. It's not going to be a white Christmas, but I still want people to have a good festive holiday season, no matter what you celebrate Christmas Hanukkah Festivus, whatever your choice is, and he looked miserable and you know, that's the one thing about Samsonov that I was told when they when he they signed him

and he came over after washington didn't qualify him the thing i was told about samsonov was it's a roller coaster emotionally he goes up he goes down you know one of the things the capitals really tried to work with him on was evening out the peaks and valleys there's there's good days there's bad days and when you're a goaltender in particular, you wear those days more than a lot of other players. Your mistakes are much more open than a lot of other players. But, you know, the Capitals just weren't successful in doing that. They couldn't mediate them like they wanted to.

And we saw the hard end for Samsonov here he looked devastated in that hallway and you know obviously Joseph Wall is out right now Nick thinks it's not going to be till February that till he comes back and so it's Samsonov it's Martin Jones and they have a young kid who's playing really well in the American Hockey League Dennis Hildeby but he's in his first year overseas right so you know like the kids played what 15 games you're going to throw him into the NHL after that I mean to me it's crazy unless you're going out and you're trading for another goalie you just have to work with Samsonov until wool gets healthy like one of the arguments was throw him down to the minors right now well number one he can't because we're in the holiday freeze and

number two um i just until wool's ready i don't see how that even makes sense so you probably have to ride jones a little bit here and you have to get like the one, Jock Martin's back coaching now. And I remember him telling me one story about Patrick Waugh. And he said, the thing that made Patrick Waugh as great as he was, was if he had a bad game, he was on the ice the next morning, no pucks, no pucks.

He was out there and he was just going through his movements, his motions. And I've always remembered that Corey Crawford, when he had that awful game against Boston in the 2013 Stanley Cup Final, they fly overnight from Chicago to Boston. The next morning, he's out by himself before practice. Just, I saw him, he was on the ice,

just working on his movements. And that's all you can do. Unless you're trading for someone else, and don't forget the Maple Leafs don't have a lot of assets here there and they're basically sitting there saying how are we gonna spend the assets to get what we need this year you just have to work with this guy and get him through it that's all you can do but man that was tough to watch and it's been a nightmare season for samsonov he just doesn't look good at all and he you know jeff there are some guys that can bet

on themselves and there's some guys that can't handle the uncertainty and he's got uncertainty after this year and he just looks like a guy right now who's having trouble handling the uncertainty yeah it's uh and they were terrible in front of them they were they didn't help him out and listen i don't think the maple leaves helped out martin jones uh at all either like that was a team that quit uh by the end everybody was doing elevator practice as the buffalo sabers danced all around them um but speaking of net minders what about the guy at the other end uh of the rink and that's devin levi who

listen we talk about bounce backs that was a big bounce back for levi yeah and to be honest i didn't think buffalo was that great uh in the first period and but they stabilized themselves i thought and then in the second i was kind of talking about how it was still winnable i i have not had a great year for predictions i have to say this might be my worst year of predictions in my professional career which is really saying something because when it got to eight three people were tweeting at me like do you still think this is a winnable game it was pretty funny I have to I have to hand it to those people you know Levi um it's interesting there. So I wrote something in my notes on Thursday where I talked about how the Sabres made him promises.

And I do think there is a debate in the Sabres organization about what's the right way to do this. And obviously right now he's in the NHL. He went to the minors in the American League for a weekend, but then they had an injury and needed him back back up I do think there are people in that organization who feel that he should spend more time in the American Hockey League he's a really talented guy and he's going to be a great goalie but they just think this is too much too soon I've heard so you know I wrote on Thursday that you know there were some promises made to Levi.

And one person reached out to me and they said, look, they weren't crazy about the way that read because it made it sound like the Sabres have promised Levi that he's guaranteed to be in the NHL. And that's not true. And I certainly wasn't trying to infer that was true. What I think they did promise Levi was, we're not bringing anyone in here to block you. You'll be given a fair chance to win the job, which I have reported before and said several times. And I believe that is 100% true. And no one has ever disputed that to me.

So if anybody misunderstood what I was referring to there, I could have written it a lot more clearly. Anyway, you know, again, when you lose that game like you lost to Columbus 9-4 and he was pulled in the middle of it, again, it brought up that debate. Should he be here or should he be in the American Hockey League? And even though Buffalo didn't start great on Thursday night, they recovered. They recovered, sure, a lot faster than Toronto did, and so did Levi.

And look, I think the thing about that game for Buffalo, Jeff, is it's been a hard year for the Sabres, and their crowds are down, and I'm not ripping their fans. They have great fans, and it's been a lot of losing. I'm not ripping the fans here. That's fans and it's been a lot of losing. I'm not ripping the fans here. That's a night where all the Toronto fans are coming in. They're looking at all of the empty seats. They're looking at the ticket prices.

They're like, we can get down to Buffalo, two-hour drive. Ticket's not expensive. We can get in there and see a team that we can't see at home. And I would just say if I was a player in that situation I would for the Sabres I would be seeing red I would be looking around and warm up and I would be telling my teammates we cannot allow this to happen tonight like I think you know if you're the Sabres you, there would be people that would get, they'd buy their season's tickets, they'd keep 38 games, they'd sell the other three to the Toronto fans,

and they'd make all their money back. That happened for years. But when you're good and your fans are in there and the Leaf fans are in there, I think you can tolerate that to some degree. But when you're not very good and the fans are staying away and the Leaf fans are coming because they're like oh it's so cheap to buy these tickets you'd be like no not tonight I'm not standing for this I'm

not putting up for this we are not losing this game and especially after the loss they had earlier this week to the Blue Jackets like I don't know where this is gonna go for buffalo this year but you have to make a stand on a night like this and saying i am not rolling over for the toronto maple leaves and their fans and that's the way i would feel if i was a player on the team and the way akpozo looked when he scored that goal oh he's laughing the six three he's just laughing well also like he was like he was fist pumping he had a nasty look on his face like it was meaningful to him and it should be that's to me that's a pride game for buffalo just like saturday night

for toronto is going to be a pride game against columbus because they just got their asses kicked yeah um what one final thing on this and i want to move on to a couple of other things mainly edmonton and new jersey here um what are the chances that on wednesday march the 6th which is the next time these two teams meet and that one is in toronto the in-house entertainment has saber Dance queued up in case the Maple Leafs are running away with it. Oh, yeah, that's a good one. Oh, yeah. This is hockey now, and I love it. Maybe they'll serve chicken wings if Toronto goes up four goals.

Like some player just on the ice will eat one in the goal celebration. If I'm working for the Maple Leafs, that's what I have queued up for that one. But then the Toronto Maple Leafs, the players themselves, have to live up to their end of the bargain. Well, living up to their end of the bargain and ending their three-game losing streak, the Edmonton Oilers beat the New Jersey Devils. This was an interesting game.

6-3 is the final score. Three goals in 69 seconds. Connor McDavid, Leon Dreisaitl, Adam Ernie turned a 3-2 deficit into a 5-3 lead. 6-3 is the final score. Your thoughts on this one. Akira Schmidt started for the New Jersey Devils. Calvin Pickard goes for the Edmonton Oilers. Your thoughts on this one? I mean,

there's some rumors out there that Lindy Ruff is in trouble. Let me ask you something. Do you think that's fair? I don't because I think, but then again, I think this about a lot of coaches i think that lindy ruff is getting he's getting goalied like akira schmidt got the quick yank but i mean listen i don't think they have much faith in him and i don't think they have much

faith in vitek vanacek being anything more than maybe a backup goaltender as harsh as that may sound again like how many coaches have you seen fall victim to bad goaltending and that's what's happening with the new jersey devils not only that hang on let me pause on this one not only that i want to swing back to lindy ruff here in a second but i think that the most under discussed story of huge significance in the nhl is the loss of dougie hamilton with the new jersey devils i thought you were going to say timo meyer dougie hamilton don't you think that is a number one defense it's a big loss i think it's enormous i think it's it's gigantic and you couple that with the goaltending maybe we shouldn't be so surprised that the New Jersey Devils are struggling

and aren't the spot that we thought they'd be in. Well, that was a bad loss. There's no question about that. It was a really bad loss. And again, Calvin Pickard, he's now won three out of four in Edmonton's net. He's bought them time. I think it's great.

I'm happy for him. Yeah, I say good for him, like good for Pickard. New Jersey here, the biggest challenge that you face is you're not allowed to go backwards, right? Correct. They made the second round last year. You're not allowed to go backwards. You're not allowed to, but you know what the history of hockey is with developing teams bunny hops two bunny hops

forward three bunny hops backwards one bunny hop forwards two bunny hops backwards like that's i know you're quote unquote not allowed an expectation is that you develop and your development only goes one direction. But history tells us that's not true. It's not even close to true. You're talking about fairytale land and I'm talking about the real world. Oh, yeah. You're really not allowed to go backwards.

And here's the thing. Lindy Roth, a couple of years ago, his status there looked uncertain, and Jack Hughes really backed him, and he stayed. And last year, remember, after two games, it was the fire Lindy, and Tom Fitzgerald was like, is everybody crazy? It's two games into the season, and let's calm it down.

And they go to the second round. And then the sorry Lindy chance, too. Let's not forget about those. Yeah to the the second round and then the story you know they go out chance too let's not forget about those yeah then the sorry lindy chance you know they they go to the second round ruff got a short extension which i you know he had this year i think he got one year in an option i'm not 100 positive but i believe that's kind of what it is in that area and Travis Green comes in as an assistant sort of like in some people's eyes coach and waiting right that whenever it happens you know he's your guy so there's this kind of thing here that if that you if you need a succession plan you kind of have one the the thing is like I don't think people like

Lindy Ruff go from smart to dumb in six months I think that New Jersey has flaws some of it because of injury and some of it because of performance that they didn't have last year that now all of a sudden they're dealing with. And you look at Edmonton and you talk about all the coaching changes this year, I think Edmonton would be the one that everybody would say, wow, that was fast. And they just felt, you know what?

We don't like the way this is going. It's not 100% fair, but we're going to make the change. And the thing I worry about is when one team does it, does it embolden other people to do it? And, you know, so when I look at Ruff, there's enough smoke out there that you wonder, okay, what exactly are we dealing with here? Like, I just don't see how Lindy Ruff goes from a genius

who got them to the second round to a complete idiot six months later. I just don't see how Lindy Ruff goes from a genius who got them to the second round to a complete idiot six months later. I just don't believe that happens. And I would think, you know, like everybody here believes that Dougie Hamilton, if he's coming back, he's either coming back right before the playoffs or into the playoffs, they can use the cap space, right? The LTIR space yep here's the thing like you can't even be guaranteed now that you're going to have that so if you want to save this season you've got a strike the way i look at it is are you really going to be able to change enough

right now if you just fire the coach like edmonton you knew mcdavid was going to get healthy and you knew ekholm was going to get healthy that gave you a good chance to get yourself going again like to me it with new jersey like every team you've got the injuries like you said with hamilton even when Hamilton was there they were struggling and they were not themselves like I like to me I think if you're gonna say we have to salvage this season you have to make a move which is hard I get it as opposed to changing the coach now does that mean that anyone's gonna to listen to me? No, it could happen anyway, I guess. But I just, like, I look at that team and I say, they need some help. And that one's just not on the coaching. You know, Jeff, like one of the things I'm watching is

Ottawa. You know, a lot of these teams got the coach bounces. Edmonton got the coach bounce. Minnesota got the coach bounce. Now let's look at Ottawa. So Ottawa, St got the got the coach bounces edmonton got the coach bounce minnesota got the coach bounce now let's say so ottawa st louis got the coach bounce although they got uh they got pummeled pretty good by tampa bay the other night but ottawa has now played two games arizona and colorado arizona they had a lead and they lost the game colorado they had a lead and they lost the game. Colorado, they had the lead and they lost the game. Now, Colorado especially is a good team and Arizona is actually a really improved team. But Jacques Martin, who's one of the best technical coaches I've ever seen,

he can't come right in and fix what ailed the Senators. Like I said, if you're like Edmonton and your guys get healthy, including the nuclear weapon of nuclear weapons, you're going to be better and you're going to beat a lot of teams. But if you don't have the personnel to win, a new coach isn't necessarily going to make the difference. And when I look at Jersey and what they've got right now, I see some of the same concerns that Ottawa has. And if you fire Lindy Ruff, are you really sure that that's going to make the difference you need? Maybe we'll find out if they think so anyway, but watching Ottawa the last two nights has made me wonder about, is New Jersey's problem going to be the same as Ottawa's

that they're just not built enough right now to handle what ails them I agree with you on Lindy Ruff and much like I also agree with you as we see with the New York Islanders and Lane Lambert because let's not forget earlier this season he heard the chants too from the fans and then I guess all of a sudden, Lane Lambert remembered how to coach again. And even though the Islanders have maybe the most bizarre record of any team in the NHL, 15, 8, and 9. So spin it whichever way you want.

But it is the most bizarre. What does Lambert have? What does he have? He has goaltending. A hundred percent he does. He's got Sorokin and Varlamov who've both been great. He's got, he's got goaltending and he's got

godfather hair. He's got two things that are very, very important. But the, the other, the other. Like that's the thing. He's got those two guys there that, that make any coach better. And that's why I come back to, and you and I

have talked about this here, the radio show, all over the place. If I'm Tom Fitzgerald right now, and what just happened, happened against the Edmonton Oilers. And to your point about, you know, the Lindy Ruff issue being out there, and is it going to be enough or not? Again, I keep coming back to

a team like the Calgary Flames. Or maybe it's not Calgary. Maybe it's another team. Maybe it's Arizona. I don't know. And I just look at they have players, some on expiring contracts, that can help the New Jersey Devils right now.

I don't know that Calgary is at the point right now where they're gonna throw the you know throw the towel in on the season and say okay we're getting rid of all these guys because we're getting great offers but if if i'm new jersey like i look at expiring well that's the obvious one right i'm like i'm like give give me the defenseman give me the defenseman and give me the goaltender what's it gonna cost yeah like? Yeah. Like, I think Tanev is someone else they've considered too. But to me, Hannafin screams devils. He does.

And, you know, I think, you know, he's, that's where he's from. That part of, well, not exactly New Jersey, but that part of the country. I think that's kind of the area that he wants to play, that part of the league. You know, it just, Hamilton's a righty shot and Hannafin's a lefty shot, so it's not apples to apples, but they could use a player like him. Like, I'll tell you, when Noah Hannafin was drafted,

like one guy who I really trust, who really nails a lot of players, said he's going to play in the NHL for 15 years, but I'm not sure, like, how high a level. Is he going to be an A-plus guy? Is he going to be a b guy says i wasn't sure like i've been really impressed by noah hannifin in calgary like even though you know everybody kind of understands he's going to move on he still played really well like to me noah hannifin is a professional and that's a very big compliment to me he's in in good times and in bad times he's

given Calgary everything they could have wanted and I I just think that if you're New Jersey you know that's the kind of guy that you you need at this point in time now again it comes down to does New Jersey think it's really important to make a big deal to salvage this season? Does any part of them sit there and say, you know what, this isn't the year? Because they've got Hughes signed a long time. They've got Myers signed a long time. They've got Hamilton signed a long time. They've got Hisher signed a long time.

Maybe they look at it and say, hey, we're going to play out this year and not you know shoot our shot maybe this isn't the time but you know i'll bet you that you could trade for that guy and have a long conversation with him about do you want to stay here do you want like is this the kind of place you envision yourself being like to me hannif, if the Devils want that jolt to improve their defensive play right now, he is the obvious guy to me. The obvious guy.

New Jersey does have their first-round pick, we should point out as well. Okay, off of that page. Real quick thought on the Oilers ending their three-game skid. We've talked plenty about how they cannot afford at all to have any prolonged losing streak. They went from being... One guy sent me a DM this week, Jeff,

and he said, too much Oilers. Please, enough with the Oilers for one podcast. So I'm going to listen to him. You're letting one guy on Twitter dictate your editorial on this podcast. Don't we all? Well, this must be... Don't we all over-listen to one guy on Twitter dictate your editorial on this podcast. Don't we all? Well, this must be.

Don't we all over listen to one person on Twitter? This must be a very important person. Well, congratulations, Oilers, three game losing streak. Pickard gave them a win. Like I said, that's the conversation. Was it Gary Lawless who sent you that DM? Enough talking about Edmonton. Talk more about Vegas.

Okay, Vegas lost to tampa tonight gary lawless what about that and speaking of needing goaltending help holy smokes about that in tampa kucherov getting a penalty from the bench everyone's cranky elliot everyone's mad everyone's upset everyone i don't know like we're so close to a little bit of a break here to pause and everyone's just i i badly want Kucherov on this podcast. I've asked for him before. Yeah, I would love it.

I think he's one of my dream guests. He's one of my dream guests. Cause I, first of all, I think that guy's really smart. And second, God only knows what he would say. He's a,

he's a dream guest of mine, but you know, Cooper was furious too like you don't see that many penalties anymore from a guy sitting on the bench um that's you know what that was that was rashid wallace yelling ball don't lie because they're winning four to two he gets that penalty they score a power play goal Vegas then they tie it and then Tampa wins in regulation if Rashid Wallace was there he'd be yelling ball don't lie although Vegas drew up a great face-off play and almost scored it almost got through Vasilevsky that was a that was a hell of a game Kucherov this year not getting enough credit for how good

he's been oh I don't know we're talking about him in the heart trophy getting enough credit for how good he's been. Oh, I don't know. We're talking about him in the Hart Trophy, man. I still don't think he's getting enough credit. He's been exceptional. He's Hart Trophy good. He's Hart Trophy good this year. But then again, there's a lot of people in that conversation. We'll see how the second half sifts itself out.

But first half, if you're awarding the Hart Trophy on New Year's Day, he's right there. first half if you're awarding the uh the heart trophy on new year's day he's right there it'd be tough not to vote i'll tell you something else too you know who's owed a heart trophy who's that owed it nathan mckinnon yeah you know how i feel about mckinnon i mean it must be i've always said this about nathan mckinnon it must be a really nice feeling to sit on the bench and say, I'm going to go out there and get two points

on my next shift and then just be able to do it single-handedly. Like when he starts galloping, like there are very few players you look at in the NHL and you can say, yeah, that guy gallops.

Nathan McKinnon gallops. Like he gallops like a horse and when he starts like the body start bouncing off him like i've compared him to a rhinoceros before and i don't know that there's anyone that comes close to skating to skating with as much offensive physicality if i can use that phrase offensive physicality as mckinnon like you cannot touch him when he gets ahead of steam. He just goes through guys. It's phenomenal to watch. And every game.

There's a GM who says to me, there's a GM who says to me, who are you going to shaft this season like you shafted Nathan McKinnon one year? I didn't know you were that cozy with Joe Sackick. Actually, he's not the GM anymore. No, it's Chris McFarlane. But it's not him.

You know, the other one I thought tonight that was really interesting in terms of Kucherov being angry was, and you pointed out to me because I was driving home and didn't see it initially, was Bogosian Gallagher. Okay, how did you see all that?

Because you've seen the clip since we talked about it. So I think this is a reflection of what we saw earlier last week. With Goodbranson? Yeah, with Goodbranson and Nick Cousins. The two situations are not exact, but I see where you're going with this. Let me point out, Goodbranson had time to sit and calm down, but instead he chose violence and went at Cousins afterwards. This was more spontaneous, but nonetheless, to me,

this was players taking this into their own hands. So the difference is, as you said, that Goodbranson and C and cousins were in the penalty box and then good branson came out and and made a beeline for cousins and uh went as as i wrote grand theft auto 6 on him which the nhl said we cannot allow that to happen um but um you know this was a situation where now the hits were not similar like Cousins had a lot more of a head of esteem than Gallagher did but Gallagher did go in high which is what Goodbranson really argued with Goodbranson actually gave me a demonstration in the Columbus room about how

he would try to hit a player in that situation go in hips first with his skates on the ground and not high so that it would limit the potential injury. And Gallagher did go in higher. He lifted. And Bogosian threw a couple punches. It wasn't, Gallagher didn't fight, but it wasn't the same level as Goodbranson and and Cousins with it and Goshen got four minutes with the 12 to 6 punches yeah well it's because it wasn't

quite as the same level 12 o'clock 6 o'clock 12 o'clock 6 o'clock 12 o'clock 6 o'clock yes come on I'm conceding to you on some level here. But so he got four minutes, unlike Gabranson, who got suspended a game. But I will tell you, I got some interesting reaction to that part of the column where players talked about how if they're going to be policed, they can't be suspended or questioning how the only guys who got suspended were the guys who were policing it

because you know one player said to me and he didn't you know he said you can't say who I am or what team I'm on and I said no problem and he said you can't even use the incident because they'll know and I said okay no problem but there was a situation where one team didn't like a hit from another player and they you know they went to the official about it and the official said look that's not a penalty and not a suspension and basically it was implied if not said he wouldn't tell me that you guys on some level you guys have to police this and you know then you take a look and you see the two guys who got suspended were perron although again perron made a big mistake and deserved a suspension and good branson who a lot of people i think it's very clear to me a lot of players around the league supported what

branson did and so i thought it was really interesting you know bogosian got four minutes obviously it wasn't kicked out of the game there won't be any supplemental discipline for that but Jeff I I just thought it was really interesting and I had a few people reach out to me about that a couple asked me for a bit more information about the what the player said and I'm just wondering if you know defending yourself or taking it into your own hands uh if that means we might see a change in the way that's looked at or is someone going to say you know what these guys are right i don't know it's too soon to know what the answer is here but i did have a few people reach out to me about it uh that game had some pretty rough stuff in it

like it was a really entertaining game and marco rossi was really good carol caprizov was really good matt boldy uh was really good uh nice to see your ace lavkovsky find the find the back of the nets um but caden ghouli gets a good lick in on caprizov marco rossi comes good for marco rossi screaming in in a situation where he knows he's given up a lot of size and weight and you know what happened in the fight is pretty much what you would expect would happen in a fight between Caden Gooley and and Marco Rossi so that that was a really rough one as well but just wanted to point one other thing out about that Minnesota Montreal game it's because you wrote about him in 32 thoughts the blog at sportsnet.ca do you see

brock faber's minutes again tonight over 30 33 25 it's incredible i gotta tell you like it's gonna be really hard oh it's gonna be really hard to beat bedard this year really hard and i'll tell you something too like to be honest I don't know if I have a vote this year I may not but if I was voting I know how this is going to go over this is going to be spectacular I would take into consideration all the extra work Bedard has done like all the extra media um you know everything that's kind of happened around him this year I think he should get credit for that and if I was voting and I understand that not everybody would agree with me and that's fine

but it would be my vote my opinion I would factor in all of the extra media he's gone through this year and all the other things he's taken on his shoulders I think that's a factor it would matter to me if I was voting now I know some people are going to hear that and say, you're a complete idiot and it shouldn't matter. I think it's going to be very difficult to beat Bedard for Rookie of the Year this year, but I give this credit to Faber. He's making a real run at it. Jeff, people in Anaheim and yourself, like the true scouting geeks,

you know Minchikov. I don't know him that well. He's good, man. He's like 0.55 points a game as a rookie defenseman. Best defenseman in the OHL last year. I counted, there's, I think. Best defenseman in the OHL last year. 10 rookie Ds in the cap era that are better than that.

It's incredible. Like, there's a great group of young players. But to me, again, there's still's a great group of young players but to me again there's still 50 games to go but i think i think it's gonna be really tough to beat beat bedard this season but there's gonna be some strong cases made for brock faber if it continues like this this is this is super impressive okay ellie let's wrap up. A few things from your blog and a couple of things outside of your blog. What about, first of all, tough one for Carolina. They lose to the Pittsburgh Penguins.

Kachetkov was really good in the game, but nonetheless, it was funny. When the game went into overtime, I got a tweet from someone saying, are you going to jinx overtime again for us in Carolina? So I stayed away. I didn't talk about Ajo and Natchez. And then the, anyhow,

and the Pittsburgh Penguins ended up winning that game. But there are some questions about the future for net minder, Frederick Anderson. What do you hear? What do you know? Yeah, I've had a few Carolina fans reach out to me to explain a bit more about that. And I'm happy to do it.

You know, Don Waddell said earlier this week that um he's been given the all clear to resume skating and like and to be honest like i'm not casting aspersions on anybody i just couldn't find the original note so i just want like i'm not questioning anybody here i just can't find the original note but it basically said he could be back in a month there was a there was a report that came out i just had a couple people just say to me be very careful with the timeline here and because i don't think anybody really knows like these are blood clots right and um you know my favorite blood clot story and i i imagine that a lot of people don't have a favorite blood-clothed story

oh i thought everybody one was when when dimitri iscavage played for the maple leaves um he tried to play with one and like he threw a fit when they told him he couldn't play and they said like dimitri if you get caught you could bleed out he's like I'm willing to risk it I know he was and they were like okay no like that's not happening so and like and people said like if you I remember a player told me that if you could have seen this argument you still wouldn't have believed that it was actually occurring um so but the blood clots are you know a serious thing and all I can tell you is I had some people say, just be very careful on the timeline. Like people are hopeful Anderson will be able to play and resume his career, but nobody

really knows for sure. So that's what I'm being careful about. Okay. Um, a couple of things from the blog, um, SAP arena in Munich, global series to Germany. Yeah. Munich appears to be on the list, Jeff. And they're building a new arena there, the SAP Center. Red Bull, the team that's playing there, and I think also the basketball team that plays there

are going to be in that arena. And it's going to be ready for next season. And I know some people who went and toured it and they said it's spectacular. And the word out there is that NHL teams will be coming. And of course there are German players in the NHL. It's a good place to go to. It makes a lot of sense. So it's definitely on the radar okay if they go there here's my prediction here's jeffy throwing darts here here are your four teams

ottawa senators okay edmonton oilers chicago blackhawks san jose sharks San Jose Sharks. I mean, all of that makes sense. All of it makes sense. I'm just saying. Tuck it away. If it happens, let's remember this conversation. If it doesn't, this conversation never happened. Nolan Patrick. What's the story on Nolan Patrick?

So I kind of feel badly. I don't know how this story started, but obviously I saw all the tweets. And then someone said to me, you know, there's a company he's working for. And I guess a member of the social media team tweeted out that he had retired and he was joining the organization to teach young players,

which is very good and noble. And I didn't think much of it. And I tracked down his phone number and I texted him and I said, hey, could I just talk to you about your career and how you're doing? And he wrote back pretty quickly and he said, look, I didn't announce my retirement. I haven't decided anything. And I just prefer not to talk right now. And I said, no problem. And I told him I was going to put it in my notes that he actually hadn't retired. And he said, fine, no issue.

And I just said, look, leave it open-ended. When you're ready to talk talk I'd love to talk and you know as someone told me he's really private he's a really quiet guy like you would you've had more experience with him Jeff I know you did that memorial where he was there so yeah and listen that was that would have been Red Deer I want to say 2016 and that was the one that London one with Marner and Kachok and Dvorak, right? That was the top line in junior hockey. Yeah, they were outstanding.

But yeah, getting there, like Brandon getting to the Memorial Cup, Nolan Patrick was on a completely different level. It's one of the best single performances we've seen of any player in Western Hockey League playoff history. He was an absolute force. 30 points, brand new, then just marched to the Memorial Cup, postseason MVP. He was phenomenal, Elliot.

And he was big and strong and physical and skilled. You watch this guy in junior. But a quiet guy, right? Really quiet guy. I had a few conversations with him. Um, one really good, nice conversation with him at a, at a banquet. Um, but yeah, really quiet. Um, not that he was like, you know, shy or anything like that, but he could just tell, like, he's got a quiet confidence, but he can tell that he's not the most outgoing person in the room. How's that? Yeah, that's fair. And I but you can tell that he's not the most outgoing person in the room how's

that yeah that's fair and i had some people tell me that like i like him i i always wanted that not not everybody is is kevin bx or nick kiprios right like there's there's people who just prefer to be quiet and you know somebody said to me that, you know, he wouldn't like all that attention, especially if he hadn't retired. He wouldn't like all of that attention. And then what happened was, I guess, you know, people started contacting his family. And somebody called me on Patrick's behalf and said, look, can you put out that tweet? Because he just wants people to stop contacting him and his family. And, you know, I wasn't crazy about it because, look,

I know what it's like to get something wrong. And, you know, I don't like to contribute to that on social media. But clearly his family was getting overwhelmed. So I just figured it was, you know, the better thing to do. And, you know, someone said to me too, you know, he's 25 years old. He just turned 25 in September. They said, you know, why would he file retirement papers? Like he's still young enough that if he decides he wants to go back

and try again at some point, you know, why not? And I actually thought that made a lot of sense like who knows how he's feeling now and he's battled a lot of health issues but maybe somewhere down the road he'll be able to get healthy enough or he'll say you know I really miss it I want to try to play somewhere where I might love it and try something out and hopefully someday that can happen for him, health permitting. The one thing I thought was really interesting is young players are going to be able to submit video to him and he's going to look at it, which is great. He's going to pass on the knowledge.

That's awesome. Okay, Ottawa Senators. One of the names you brought up in your notes, John Gruden. Now, we've talked about John Gruden before. This is for the coaching position, and we'll see how this all sorts itself out, whether it happens during the season, whether it happens after the season. We'll see what happens. But John Gruden very much knows Michael Andlauer and Steve Staios.

He coached for the team they own in the OHL. Then Hamilton, now Brantford Bulldogs. He's the coach of the AHL Toronto Marlies, and he would have to be considered, how shall we say it, Elliot, a person of interest for the Ottawa Senators. I think he's got a shot at that job. You know, I do think this. I think the Senators, one thing that's very clear,

like someone said to me if they wanted a Woodcroft if they wanted Everson or they wanted somebody who was available now they could have hired them already and I don't yeah I guess that's true in Ottawa's case but I don't think they want to think like that like they know Ottawa's identified its young core its's Stutzla it's Kachok it's Norris it's Bathurston it's Pinto it's Sanderson it's it's Chikrin it's Shabbat and you know Ridley Gregg I think is a guy who's really coming someone said what about Zub he's a little bit older but you know obviously

I think Zub's a really good player too they have one shot to get this right with a coaching hire to make sure that when these guys are in their prime they're going to be able to win they are not going to rush into anything I don't think you know the one thing that could change here is if you know if they get a chance to talk to gruden in season and he knocks their socks off i guess that could always happen possibly but the one thing that they have said to people is we have to get this right there is a there's a realization that of all of the things that and Lauer and Stahels are gonna do this is the most important getting the coach right from a hockey point of view like people talk about the GM Stahels is gonna be the boss he's gonna be running the show you've already

got the boss in place this is the person who's going to run your bench hopefully for five to ten years and i and i think there's a real like like i said the the sentence coming out of ottawa is we've got to get this right and they're right they they absolutely do okay um we've seen you know we've seen players on a different topic here we've seen players before you know comment about their team we've seen players comment about coaches we've seen comment we've seen players comment on a lot of things after losses but devon taves going at his players on the colorado avalanche this week was unique essentially saying there's a lot of guys here that think they're playing a lot better than they Taves going at his players on the Colorado Avalanche this week was unique,

essentially saying there's a lot of guys here that think they're playing a lot better than they actually are, which is a pretty unique twist on how to, how to take a swipe at your teammates. What a weird year in Colorado. It's been bizarre. And you, listen, you,

you've written about it and you've, you've talked about it Saturday on, on headlines. The idea of what's next for Colorado. You know, earlier in this podcast, you brought up Nathan McKinnon and listen, he goes out and scores four goals on Thursday night. They beat the Ottawa Senators 6-4. Miko Rantanen has the other two as well.

And I think we're all waiting here now for the next shoe to drop in Colorado. They have to be looking. Lindholm is one of the more obvious names that's out there. What do you think McFarlane and Sakic have up their sleeve here? Well, I think one of the things that they have to deal with is cap. They don't have a lot of it. One of the challenges for them will be doing anything quickly. And they've built up the points, right?

They've banked the points. They don't have to rush. But I think that the teams who've talked to them know that they can't necessarily race into anything because they don't have the cap room to do it. But there's definitely a feeling that when teams are ready to deal, but there's definitely a feeling that when teams are ready to deal make sure Colorado knows

because they want to know when they absolutely have to do something like I think they're in on Lindholm, he's a perfect fit for what they need I talked about it the other podcast but he fits

what they could really use i just think that i mean i it's almost like an nba team this year like you look at like the beef of someone's relative saying something that pisses off a player like that's right out of the nba man of course yeah that is there i tried to find out who Taves was talking about the other day but there was some real omerta there it was like yeah you're you're not finding out like we're not telling you who that is so but clearly the message was received but that's all it was also very nba like it's it's it's pretty interesting how i mean maybe the uh the avalanche saw the nuggets win the nba championship last year and they have to take some of that personality into their game the other thing it says to me about them is they're

not satisfied they are absolutely they won a stanley cup two years ago and you know last year you have your hangover and everything, and you lose Landis Gog, and it's hard to win. And I think everybody recognizes what a big loss Landis Gog is for them. Yet, they're not buying any more excuses this year, Jeff. The years of the excuse, they had their one year of excuses. That's over. And not winning this year is not acceptable. And I do think they're going to try to do some things.

You take a look. They've got three players forwards and the top seven of ice time among forwards. The Maple Leafs are the only other team that has three in the top 20 and Nylander's 20th. So I think, I mean, you can't do that all year. Even a guy like McKinnon will burn out and in the post season especially if you're going to run into Vegas what is the thing that Vegas beats you with

the most it's depth so I think they know they're going to have to do something and they will do something but a lot of what I've seen this year is the pride of a team that is, is letting everybody know that they don't want to be gas in the wind. They want to be more than a one hit wonder. Let's let's finish up as a block by talking about quickly here. The Dallas stars really exciting overtime win Thursday night against the Vancouver Canucks. Boy, did Thomas Harley ever

look good in this game. But you wrote in your notes about Maverick Bork and Logan Stankhoven, about how they're pushing, and how do you get them into the lineup? And the problem, listen, the problem with Dallas is they don't have any salary cap space. It's going to take

an injury to make this happen, or Dallas's they don't have any salary cap space like it's going to take um it's going to take an injury um to to make this happen or a trade uh to make this happen but make no mistake about it like I think you're bang on with this these guys look like they at least deserve a look up with the big club well and I think they're going to play sooner or later, right? Like both those kids are going to be NHL players. Now, one of the issues with Dallas is they're cap tight. So it's not easy to do it. They're going to have to do something to create room for them. Like I haven't seen a lot of them, but a couple of people have mentioned them to me now for a couple weeks straight. Like you got to get these guys in your notes. for a couple weeks straight like you got to get these guys in your notes you know i have to say this i did get a long uh note from someone who's been a long time reader of the blog and he said i hope you take this as a constructive criticism whenever someone starts a sentence like you're getting like you're getting blasted you're getting blasted and he said you know honestly i i just think there's there's too many teams that don't get mentioned enough in your blog and i kind of thought about

it and uh and you know what it's probably a fair criticism like it's always going to skew heavy towards canada because i'm based in canada and i deal with the teams more but you know what i i think it's true i think it's a fair critique and it's something I'm going to try to change next season but you know so I was thinking about the Dallas and people were talking about those two guys and they happen to have a huge game this week against Grand Rapids but you know one of the things I've heard is that you know they don't have any shorthanded goals or anything like that this year but I've heard Texas has started to put them out on the penalty kill and like because you know if if you're going to go up there and play for Peter DeBoer and Peter like that this year but i've heard texas has started to put them out on the penalty kill and like because you know if if you're going to go up there and play for peter de boer and peter de boer

and the then the sharks want to win a stanley cup he's not going to use you if you're one hit wonders right like you're not going to play for a coach like that so i think it's really smart and you know these are two of the best like people think that Bork in particular could be the MVP of the American Hockey League this year. I'm just curious to see how long it's going to last. And like I said, one coach made the joke about I can't wait that I'm rid of those guys because they're too good. They're excellent and they're right there

and I think a lot of us are waiting for them to finally get called up. You you mentioned that game against grand rapids and there's one more player that i would add to your list respectfully and that is you know um the goaltender uh remy poirier who you know every time i you know do a do a check-in, we all think that this is going to be the next backup for Jake Ottinger. That's how well Remy Poirier is playing. And he had another big one. You mentioned that game against Grand Rapids. He was excellent in that game as well.

So don't be surprised if that's another name out of Dallas. Because they need more great kids like Leon Bichelle's playing, you know, 26 minutes where he's playing and Thomas Harley starting to pop on the blue line. Like it's an embarrassment of riches for young kids coming up and, and playing well with the big squad. But Remy Poirier is another name. We should probably start to get ourselves acquainted with.

Okay. On that. We'll we'll wrap up the a block here. Back with the Montana's Thought Line in the B Block in a moment. Listen to the 32 Thoughts podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. okay elliot here we go once again time now for the montana's thought line presented by montana's barbecue and bar canada's home for barbecue take it away, free. Try the ribs. 32. Oh, yeah. And I'd just like to say something here.

You know who wanted to try the ribs this week? Who? Dave Maloney from the New York Rangers broadcast team. They were in town. And what Dave told me was, unfortunately, fighting to get downtown in Toronto traffic and rush hour not easy there was no montana's unfortunately close to the rangers hotel so we couldn't go but the rangers come back in march i think right before the trade deadline right around there anyway and i think

montana should hook up dave maloney and the entire entire Rangers broadcast team and traveling party with some ribs because he specifically sought me out to say he wanted to try the ribs. Okay. Is there any truth to the rumor that Sam Rosen was curious about the pecan salad? No, because he's a lot smarter than that. Okay. Very good. The fried pickles.

Maybe Sam wants some of that loving no maybe all right we move along no athletes need protein they want the ribs yes because that's the only place you can get protein i was gonna say there's no other protein in the world except ribs according to the books i read that's what I read on Wikipedia. No study that I've ever believed has concluded anything other than protein only comes from ribs. 32 thoughts at Sportsnet.ca. 1-833-311-3232. I just love it.

32 thoughts at Sportsnet.ca. 1-833-311-3232. Amisha from Brampton submits this. Hi there, Amisha from Brampton here. I want to start by saying love the podcast, all the work you guys put into it. My question is based on something that happened in one of my games last weekend. Keep in mind, it's just U18 girls double B. So my team had a delayed penalty called on us and the play was in our end. The other team missed the pass to their D on the point and the puck was slowly going down towards their now empty net as the goalie had left to get the extra skater on. One of my teammates was out skating their defense.

Now, obviously, if she possesses the puck on her stick, then the whistle would blow. Now, obviously, if she possesses the puck on her stick, then the whistle would blow. But what if she just dove on the ice or tripped without actually possessing the puck and it went in? Would that be a goal in the NHL? I feel like our refs would have called it a goal. But of course, we aren't in the NHL. Thanks again, Jelly Dom. That's catching on. keep up the great work

do you have a thought on this one i think it depends on the official because as you know jeff there are some referees who want possession and there are some who say no you just touched it that's enough so i uh i was wondering about this one as well. My instinct was no goal because I don't think it necessarily has just to do with possession. So I reached out to our mutual buddy, Dave Jackson, who does work with ESPN,

former NHL referee. Let me read to you what he texted me back. This is for you, Amisha. No goal. The team getting the penalty can have no effect on the puck going in the net. And the fact that obviously your teammate would have tripped accidentally without actually possessing the puck and it goes in or dove on the ice. That means they've had an effect on it. And then he gave me a great example.

Think about this one. I had never thought about this before, but it does make a lot of sense. Okay, I'll go one further. This is Dave Jackson. I'll go one further. Team getting the power play is skating out from behind their own net. Okay, Elliot? So the team that's about to have the power play is skating out from behind their own net.

The team getting the penalty body checks the puck carrier he falls and knocks the puck into his own nets do you know what the call is no what's that still no goal even though the other team never touched the puck the only way it counts is if they put the puck in their own net with zero input from the penalized teams you can have no input into the goal it doesn't have to be touched even if you body check someone and the puck goes in the net because of it it is still ruled no goal amicia thank you for that question i can't believe some of the stuff that people think of. I really don't.

I know you do. I have to say it's twisted in its own way. It's really twisted in its own way. I don't know whether to respect it or be disgusted by it. It's probably both. It's the holiday season. Be respectful. Okay.

Amisha, thanks for that question see sometimes i love talking to people that ask questions that challenge a lot of my assumptions about the game or present different scenarios because then it leads to things like that okay garnett in peterborough while listening to the last podcast i couldn't help but notice that jeff says jersey i know and i always try to catch myself too I can't believe that a hockey nerd wouldn't say it's a hockey sweater. Yeah, Cherry was big about that. Don Cherry always said sweater.

It's a sweater, it's not a jersey. But my question is, this is Garnet again, is there a rule that says nameplates have to be on the back of the sweater? I just think the Canadian sweater would look better with just a number the way that the Yankees uniform does. Good job, everybody, Garnet and Peterborough. Freach.

There is a rule, and the reason I remember there's a rule is do you remember what Harold Ballard did with the Maple Leafs when we were kids? Very creative, and you can explain the reason why too. A blue nameplate on a blue jersey so you couldn't see it. So what happened was, what Elliot is talking about.

Had to buy more programs. In the 70s, the NHL mandated that all the sweaters had to have nameplates on them and Ballard, Harold Ballard, the late owner of the Toronto Maple Leafs, felt that that would hurt program sales. So as a way to, I guess, tweak the nose of the NHL, he said, okay, fine, I'll put the nameplate on because it didn't specify that if you're wearing

a blue jersey, it had to be white letters. So he put blue letters on a blue jersey, white letters on a white jersey. So no one could see it as program sales were still robust, Elliot. Ballard. That's one can see it. It's program sales. We're still robust, Elliot. Ballard. That's all I can say. Okay, here's one for you. Here's one for you. Philip from Slovakia. Hey guys, long-time

listener Philip here from Slovakia. I have two quick questions for you. Elliot mentioned in Friday's podcast that Shane Pinto should be coming back to the city of Ottawa because he'll be allowed to practice with the team again. Question is, is there a difference between, for example, three or 41 game suspension in what players can attend? And what specifically are they banned from except games, of course?

The second question for all of you three is, is your all-time favorite slovakian player thanks for all the responses and as always keep up the good work all three of you doing a great job hashtag let's go pens first one is there a difference between a 3 or 41 game suspension and what players are allowed to attend while they are suspended basically what i would say is this it's that um for those longer suspensions like there was for example a couple years ago there was a performance enhancing substance suspension in the uh nhl or ahl because it involved the leaves marley's i can't remember exactly which at the time and it was 20 games and i think it was 10 days before the end of the suspension the player was

was allowed to resume activities with the team that's the case with um pinto i believe 10 days uh before the he's eligible to play again he can start practicing with the team once again so that's kind of the way it goes. He's allowed to go back into the city and work out on his own and things like that. But 10 days from the end of the suspension, he can begin practicing with the team. Okay, and to the follow-up question for all three of us, and since this hits Dom where he lives and who he is,

favorite Slovakian player of all time. Dom, this is you. You lead. Pavel Dimitra. Oh, such a great choice. That's a great pick. Oh, that's an awesome, awesome choice. That's a great pick.

He was real good. I think, well, listen, we all miss Pavel Dimitra. Elliot, you have a favorite Slovakian player of all time? I'm loyal to Peter Stasny. Just remember him when he came over and what a great player he was. And, uh, I also remember for different reasons, just the, in the O2 Olympics, when unfortunately they had that situation where they couldn't work out for, uh, some of the NHL players to play, uh, for some of the other teams like Latvia and Slovakia. I just remember Archer's Urbe and Stasny, he sat on the bench and eventually he went in and played because it was tough for them to see how they couldn't get their full compliment of players. And I just always admired both Urbe and Stasny for how much it mattered to them.

So I'm always a Peter Stasny fan. Same. For me, my default is always Peter Stasny, although huge Marian Hossa fan. But you know, my first favorite Slovakian hockey player was Vladimir Zorilla. Vladimir Zorilla was the goaltender for Czechoslovakia in the 1976 Canada Cup. And I remember him well for two reasons.

One, he terrified me in that game against Team Canada when he shut them out, won nothing. And I thought, there's no way anyone's going to score on this guy. Canada ended up winning that Canada Cup. And then I remember the jersey swap at the end. This is one of the great traditions in international hockey, when each team gets together and they swap jerseys. Rogi Vachon was the goaltender for Canada.

Man, what a great tournament he had as well. That made me a huge Rogi Vachon fan. And I just remember, because Vlad Zorilla was much bigger than Rogi, them switching jerseys, and Rogi wearing this humongous Vladimir Zorilla was much bigger than Rogi. Them switching jerseys and Rogi wearing this humongous Vladimir Zorilla jersey as Zorilla himself had to squeeze into this tiny little Rogi Vashon jersey. He was a refrigerator repairman by trade and an international goaltender for Czechoslovakia back in the 70s as well.

Him and Yuri Holacek sort of flipped back and forth but that was my first slovakian hockey love because he terrified me as a kid beating shutting them out i think it was like 35 saves uh in that game as well so yeah unfortunately they got him in the final like oh boy it was sittler and then in the um and then in the other game but yeah i that's one of the first hockey tournaments I really remember. Me too. I do remember Zerilla gaining a ton of fans

for how well he played. He was awesome. Thanks for that one. Much appreciated for that email. Matt in Victoria. Hey guys, love the pod. Massive hockey fan. Eat, live and breathe hockey.

I've had numerous conversations with co-workers friends and family this past week in regards to the luongo ring of honor versus retiring his number i absolutely believe that teams should honor the amazing players that come through their franchise however i do not believe that players should not be able to wear that number again i'm also a big football, soccer fan, and they don't retire numbers in football. Messi grew up watching his idol Maradona and wanted to wear his number 10 shirt to make him proud.

Same for Neymar with Pele. Why can't these idols in hockey be remembered but still have children who idolize them and one day want to wear that jersey proud? Maybe that's why Mitch Marner wore 93 watching the leafs and doug gilmore obviously i don't know that but you don't know that's true i just know my favorite team growing up and still is the vancouver canucks my favorite number still is number 10 because of pavel beret so i'd love to hear your thoughts on retiring numbers. 32 of them. Terrible joke, LOL.

Thank you and great job, everyone. Well, that does happen. You know, the Leafs did that for a long time before they took the numbers out of circulation. So that's definitely occurred. You know, obviously, Taylor Hall, when he went to Edmonton, he wore Kevin Lowe's number four. So it does happen here and there.

I don't know. I've always had a thing for retired numbers. One of the Sporkle quizzes I always play is, can you name the retired numbers in all these sports? I think there is something to going to a game and seeing that banner and trying to understand who that player was. Like one of the stories I did at CBC that I really loved doing was, who was the first number retired

among the Pittsburgh Penguins? Michelle Breer, number 21. And just the story about him and who he was. And one of the real nice things about uh that doing that story was you know he was a young player who died in a car accident um his girlfriend at the time was was pregnant and you know just the the son uh realizing that people wanted to know about his dad and um you, is that the same if the number's not retired? I don't know.

But I've always had a thing for retired numbers. And, like, you know, Calgary's another team. I think they've only honoured Al McInnes and not retired it. I don't know. I love to see retired numbers. It's a personal preference. Everybody's different, but I love it. The one retired number story that I keep coming back to,

and I've never really had a what i consider a satisfactory answer for it um is number six with the detroit red wings and that was larry ory uh little dempsey as they called him one of gordy howe's favorite players as a matter of fact in detroit he was gordy uh before gordy came along. That was the style of player that he was. And his number six was retired by former Wings owner James Norris. And then when the Illich's bought the team, the number was unretired, but it is out of circulation. Nobody wears number six, even though it has been unretired by the Detroit Red Wings. I have yet to receive an answer as to why the jersey was unretired and have yet to receive an answer why nobody other than his cousin once in Detroit has ever been able to wear the number six. I still, that's one of my white whales, Elliot, is finding the truth behind the Larry Ori

story. One day I'll find it. Today is not that day. If Mickey Redmond can't find out, nobody can. He knows everything in Detroit. Help us, Mickey. Help us with the Larry Ori story. Okay, Justin in Newfoundland.

Hearing the conversation on Jeff's show with Eric Engels about Jake Allen emulating Tuca Rask during the 2019 final, and I have a somewhat related question about practicing power plays. When a team is practicing their power play, do they typically work on the penalty kill in their own style simultaneously or do they try to emulate the basic penalty kill strategy of an upcoming opponent even if it doesn't necessarily match their own style may become convoluted during the season but seems like a fair strategy to deploy during playoff preparation as always great job jeff elliott and new amyl ps try the ribs i think i think it happens both ways i've seen both i think a lot of it i think that when you're in a when you're

in a seven game series you want to emulate as much as you can or do video work around uh things like which way each penalty killer shoots which which way they hold their stick, where they position themselves. I can see teams trying to emulate the penalty kill of their opposition. That just flat out makes sense. I think it was the Canadians once. I can't remember for sure. But I think I remember them telling me at practice

they were going into a playoff series and it was against the Bruins when they were putting char in front of the net. And they said, yeah, that's a tough one to emulate. I think they said something like Brian, Brian Gionta or Mike Camilleri is not going to do it or something like that. We have to go to the zoo to get a giraffe and put him in a Bruins jersey, stand him in front of the net. We'll finish up on this one.

Doug in New Jersey. Hello from New Jersey as a hopeless bandwagoner of the net we'll finish up on this one Doug in New Jersey hello from New Jersey as a hopeless bandwagoner of the devils and a new fan of the league your pod has been a wonderful resource to learn more about the game and the beautiful and proud nation of Canada oh thanks

thanks for that one my question is when did dad's slash mom's trips become a regular part of the NHL calendar the devils had all their fathers go to the games this past Saturday and Sunday, and a lot of funny content has come out of it. Those are always great cutaway shots. I particularly liked how Debonair, the European dads, looked compared to their schlubby American and Canadian counterparts. Some of the Euro dads

dress it up, man. They look good uh do you guys have any favorite parents trip stories you know i just mentioned euros a second ago i don't know i don't know why but euros really dress well compared to a lot of us well there's we're schlubby here according to doug i guess so schlubby american and canadian counterparts um you know a couple of seconds ago i mentioned my white whale with literary i have another white whale and i'm determined to get it out of them how many white whales are there i got a lot man in moby in moby dick there was only one i think you're only allowed to have one okay well this is uh maybe not a white whale gray whale, I don't know. Bruce Boudreaux, and he will not tell me. He refuses to tell me who the team was. But it could either only be Washington or Anaheim or Minnesota or Vancouver.

In one of his stops with one of these teams on the dad's trip, the dad's one night went to a bar and got in a full on bar brawl. And apparently the players were none too pleased and kind of embarrassed about it the next day. He refuses to tell me, Elliot. He refuses to tell me, Elliot, and if maybe you're a player from one of those teams and would like to share that information on one of those teams in one of those seasons, Elliot, dad's trip, bar brawl. That sounds like Anaheim.

Look at that team and tell me the fathers wouldn't get into a fight. I would say Anaheim, although, you know what? Sometimes it's what you least expect to. I don't know. Maybe it was Washington. Maybe it was Minnesota. Could it have been Vancouver?

I don't know. Any favorite parent trip stories? One of the first father's trips I can remember was when we were working at CBC and the Red Wings did it in Atlanta. stories one of the first father's trips i can remember was when we were working at cbc and the red wings did it in atlanta and um i'll there were a couple things i remember about that trip they allowed us to bring the cameras and we went behind the scenes and we miked up jimmy howard's dad for a period while jimmy was

in goal and i regretted that because i just thought i think it was too hard on jimmy howard's dad like it was it was really tough for him to have the mic on him and we took it off after 20 minutes and i was like uh i i remembered filing that in my head and saying we're not doing that again if we ever get this opportunity um the thing i remember about that trip is steve eiserman was hurt and so he went on the bus to the game with the fathers and those fathers were in awe of steve eiserman and he treated them really well and he i remember they would ask him, like some of them were really shy to ask about their son. And whoever did ask, I remember, I think one of the dads, if I remember correctly, was Brett Lebda's dad. Oh, yeah.

And like he just asked, like, what's it like to play with my son? I heard this conversation. We didn't have the mic on it. And Iserman talked about Brett Lebda, like just in glowing terms. And the dad was beaming. And then a couple more of the dads finally got the confidence, you know, to ask, okay, what's it like to play with my son? And he made those dads feel great. I could totally see someone like Biexa just carving the kids to their dads,

but Iserman wasn't doing that. I always remember that one. But the other thing I remember about that trip was we had a problem with the tape. We shot it on three or four tapes, and one of the tapes that had really good stuff on it, it had a problem with it. It got mucked up somehow it wasn't the cameraman's fault like something it was like a faulty tape and i remember calling like i found

out the name of the company that sold the tape i called them i was like how do i fix this and i don't remember how but we dragged off like the the most usable footage we dragged it off the tape and we got it on the air and it was one of the best parts of the piece and i just remember like producers saying to me we have never seen anybody do that to get a story off a tape before i was like we were not losing this story so that's the one that det Detroit trip is one of the ones I remember because we mistreated Jimmy Howard's dad. Iserman treated those dads like gold and that tape almost got ruined. That's what I remember. Perfect way to wrap up another edition of the Montana's Thought Line, Montana's Barbecue and Bar, Canada's home for barbecue. Wrap it up the podcast in a moment. the podcast in a moment okay elliot wrapping up the podcast here for another week and don't look now but 51 year old yaramir yogger is playing hockey again we've talked about it before why

he's doing it uh 51 years old playing for cladno and got an assist in his first game yeah so what that's going to do is it's going to restart the clock on his hockey hall of fame right three more years now until he's eligible to go in and you know chris johnston had an article about it and um he's written about it before um about how the Hockey Hall of Fame is not going to change that. They believe, nope, this is our rule and we're not going to budge. I just want to say how much I really disagree with that. I'm not ripping Chris. I just disagree with the position.

The Hockey Hall of Fame is about about are you a great hockey player but it's also should be about do you represent the game well do you love the sport like do you leave it in a better place than you found it like this i like that thing doug armstrong said at the blues media conference like i haven't left the team better than i found it. I think about stuff like that all the time. And like, he is playing Yager because he wants to keep the team going. He is worried that if he retires and doesn't play, the team will not survive. And I don't think he should be penalized for that. The Penguins are retiring his number this year. I think he should be penalized for that the penguins are retiring his number this year i like i think he should be rewarded for that and not penalized for that and i don't see anything wrong with carving

out a one-time exception and saying look this is not going to be used as a precedent it's just going to be in this particular case because it's unique and i think he should be celebrated for what he's trying to do to keep hockey going in that small part of the hockey universe and nobody's going to change my mind on this nobody's going to change my mind i think he should be inducted right away So it wouldn't be a one-time thing. This has happened where the mandatory. Well, with Lemieux and Gretzky, right? And there's more. It's happened 10 times.

It happened with Dick Clapper. It happened with Rocket Richard. It happened with Ted Lindsey, who, as a matter of fact, didn't attend his ceremony because at that point, wives weren't allowed to attend. And he said, if I can't bring my wife, I'm not going. And he didn't go. Red Kelly, it was way for. Terry Sawchuck, who passed away in 1970. He was allowed in in 1971.

Jean Beliveau, Gordie Howe, Bob Eeyore retired in 1979. And guess what year he went to the Hockey Hall of Fame? That same year, 1979. So this wouldn't be just a one-time carve out. There's historical precedent for exactly what you're talking about here. So I don't, I don't see this as being somehow breaking with some great unique tradition. It's happened 10 times before. I can't believe you're actually agreeing with a take of mine.

I agree with it. I think what he's doing is wonderful. And I'll tell you what, the selfish part of me just hopes that he keeps on playing forever as long as he wants to. And doesn't do it out of an obligation to try to save an organization and save a team. obligation to try to save an organization and save a team. I just love the idea that there's this guy out there that still has the juice to play competitive professional hockey. And it's Jagger, one of the best talents and one of the best personalities we've ever seen. I'm listening to you talk and I'm bobbleheading all of it, Elliot. Well, you should do that more often. All I want, no, this is seldom. This is a holiday treat. The only point that I wanted to add to what

you're saying, because all I would do is just sort of amplify what you just said, maybe use more colorful and delightful language because I went to Guelph and you went to Western. So my vocabulary is that much more expanded. I just wanted to add to the fact that this wouldn't just be a one-off or it's not just Wayne and just Mario there's Clapper. There's rocket. There's Lindsay. There's Kelly, Sawchuck,

Beliveau, how, and or I put yoga in that. I put like all those names that I just named. You can put yoga in that conversation with all of those players. So I'm totally cool with it. Okay. I'm glad you feel that way.

Yeah, I feel like I need a shower after agreeing with you. I don't like that. So we'll wrap up the podcast on that. Hall of Fame, do the right thing. Yager goes in.

Okay, so on behalf of all of us here, we hope the best for you and your family this holiday season. Health and happiness to all. You have Friday night games. You've got Saturday night games.

And then the NHL goes dark for a few. We'll catch up soon, right back here on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. All the best this holiday season to all of you and your families.