32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Jack To The Rescue

Episode Date: April 24, 2023

What a weekend! Jeff and Elliotte break down each series — Oilers-Kings (1:00), Bolts-Maple Leafs (15:40), Jets-Golden Knights (24:15), Islanders-Canes (31:00), Wild-Stars (35:20), Kraken-Avalanche (44:45), Rangers-Devils (47:40) & Panthers-Bruins (50:00).Elliotte also discusses Émilie Castonguay choosing to stay with the Canucks (59:30) and we take an interesting broadcast question (1:01:00).Plus, check out the Evander Kane feature on Sportsnet’s YouTube channelEmail the podcast at [e-mail] or call The Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailOutro Music: Cal in Red - ZebraListen to the full track hereThis podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Audio Credits: Bally Sports, ESPN, KFAN, KKSE-FM, KLAC, NESN, Sportsnet, WBZ-FM, WCMC, WFAN AM & WTMM-FM.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Hold on, let me just turn down my AC here. And make me sound like James Earl Jones too while you're at it. Okay, thanks. Listen to the 32 Thoughts podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. Okay, everybody, take a deep breath. We have a lot to get to today. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented by the GMC Canyon AT4X.

Merrick, Friedman, and Delitzsch. Lots to get to, as I mentioned. We'll start with the late game on Sunday. And I don't know if I should call it the late game or the late games, because the last time I checked watching this thing, there were about four or five different games all contained within one game.

Yes. There was the Velarde Arvidsson Kopitar score to make a 3-0 nothing game it's a power play goal for anje kopitar three unanswered first period goals by the kings here in game four there was the evan bouchard leon dry sidle scores twice to make it three three3. Leon Dreisaitl's dominance continues. He's been on for every single goal. There was the Matt Roy making it 4-3. There was

Evander Kane at the end of the third period tying things up. Evander Kane ties the game in the late stages. It's 4-4 in game 4. What a shot by Evander Kane here. He gets this away in a hurry. And then there was the Kempe hit on Bouchard. Huge penalty kill for the Los Angeles Kings. That should swing momentum right.

Wrong. Zach Hyman with the OT winner. And in the middle of all of it, coming in on the second period, maybe to become the latest hero in Edmonton, where the stars shine brightly, Jack Campbell takes over for Stuart Skinner and may have just saved Edmonton's season. Your thoughts on this wonderful game, Elliot?

Let me just say, what a weekend of hockey. I want everybody to think about their dream restaurant and their dream meal. Okay. You just went through a weekend. Nevermind you. We all just went through a weekend together where we had a phenomenal appetizer. Maybe you're a shrink cocktail person. maybe you're a shrink cocktail person maybe you're a caprese salad person beef carpaccio name it then we had a marvelous entree mouth-watering steak branzino sea bass lobster tofu if you're eric with his vegetarian slash vegan options. Waiting for that courtesy to get thrown in there. We can't just all get rid of the vegans, people.

They're among us. They're here. They share oxygen with us, everybody. They share our oxygen with the vegans. We have to make room for them and then edmonton la was a delicious chocolate souffle what a great dessert of our meal okay yeah i gotta tell you jeff there was so much about that game that was spectacular you know you've really hit on everything.

The one person I want to talk about is Campbell, okay? Because, you know, he hasn't played a game in basically two weeks. And he gets his warm-up, and he gets the call, you know, over an hour after his warm-up. And then when he goes into the game he doesn't get a shot for 10 minutes of real time and his first challenge is basically a two-on-one where arvidsson could skate right up to his nose if he wants to and he's got to make two or three great saves and he had some saves tonight where he had no idea where the rebound was going he had

no idea where it hit him it didn't matter you know what Edmonton needed was Jack Campbell to come in and fight look like a desperate man winning a fight and he did it and just as a human being I'm incredibly happy for especially early in the third period when the Kings were caving them in. That was an incredible game, an incredible performance by a lot of different people. The only warning I'd give for the Oilers fans is there's no way the Kings are tapping out after that one. No way.

This series is proving that momentum does not carry over. And this is far, far, far from finished. Campbell is an outstanding story. And I'm glad you mentioned Jack Campbell and he went in there and he scrapped. And we know it's been a challenging season for Jack Campbell. And he's someone that if you know anything about him or, you know, him, uh, it's almost impossible not to cheer for him. The guy that I think of is Zach

Hyman. And not just because of the overtime goal, Elliot, but do you remember what happened earlier to Zach Hyman? The really undisciplined tripping call on Mikey Anderson. And he goes to the box and they do a tight one shot on Hyman sitting in the box and you can only imagine what's going through his mind. Maybe something along the lines of, have I just thrown away our season? Did I just cost us the season here? And he went from the guy sitting in the box. And I got to say like that was a really disciplined game by the Edmonton

Oilers. That's what made that Hyman penalty really stand out. They were really disciplined all game long. That hasn't been the case all series long. And he just has the brain cramp, and he trips Anderson, and he does the skate of shame and into the box, and I can only imagine what's going through his head at that time. Did I just cost us a season?

Did I just cost us a season? And then he becomes the overtime hero. Again, not just one game we watched folks but a lot of different games all contained in those three periods and the overtime one thing about yonas corpus allah want to throw in as well he was i know we're talking a lot about jack campbell there was a moment early right after the velarde goal and this is where we all thought okay this is where the la kings are really snuffing the Oilers out here. That first period game, because it was his own game,

right after Velarde scores, there's that play in front of the net and it goes to Leon Dreisaitl and he taps it over to Kane. Now, I know Kane doesn't quite get all of it, but Corpus Allo makes that incredible save. And I don't know about you, but I thought, oh man, is Corpus Allo ever dialed in? This is going to be real tough. Then Arvidsson scores, Kopitar scores, and you're saying to yourself, man, Corpus Allo's in the zone.

They just put up a three spot. I can only imagine. You were talking to Derek Lalone about this at the intermission. I can only imagine what's going on in the Oilers dressing room at that point. And I think a lot of us were thinking, holy smokes, the Los Angeles Kings are grabbing a 3-1 lead here. I have to give credit to both BX and the Lones because even though we didn't get the Campbell thing right, I thought those guys really nailed the intermission

about what Edmonton had to do. Like, you're not going to score three goals at once. You have to grind your way back in and they both talked about getting zone time and forcing power plays and they got them i really thought kevin and derrick did an incredible job of analysis in that that first intermission you're not going to score three goals at once so you better get back to what works and grind your way back in i mean edmonton has some roster decisions to make here i mean kane's going nowhere he's hurting but you know for example on defense day arne one of the great stories of the regular season you know he's

really struggled and i wonder what they're going to do with this year you know he didn't play the third period Koston didn't play the third period as I said that one really surprised me the one thing about Woodcroft is he really believes in De Arne we've told the story about how there was a trade that Woodcroft voted against because it would have taken somebody out of their role. I believe that player was day RNA, but here's my question for you before we move on to the controversial play. Is it who starts for Edmonton next? So what are you doing? Like who's game five for you?

Is it Skinner? Is it Campbell? I think at a situation like this, you got to go hot hand. Jack Campbell just came in and saved your season. I'm going back to Skinner. After that? Yeah.

After he just saved your season, you're going back to the rookie? I'll say this, all things being equal, okay? First of all, the Oilers know these two guys better than we do. Yeah. So they know if there's anything in there that they're worried about with skinner in terms of the way he's playing or his confidence or anything like that like they have all the information you know it's funny because i thought about our conversation last pod about the minnesota goalies and i think you can take a risk earlier in our series as

opposed to later well now we're game five. So this is late. So the consequences of a wrong decision are greater. Campbell battled. I give him a ton of credit. If I think that Skinner's head is in the right place, I think technically he's a better goalie right now and I go back to him.

But I know what you're saying. Like, I understand what you're saying. Here's my thinking. Which of the two are inside LA's head right now and I go back to him. But I know what you're saying. Like, I understand what you're saying. Here's my thinking. Which of the two are inside LA's head right now? They chased him after 20. They chased Stuart Skinner after 20. And like, look, listen, these are good. It's not as if they were firing balloons through him in the first period.

Like, these are good goals. Okay, like, make no mistake about it. Like, these weren't embarrassing goals that LA scored. But still, who's the guy that's living in their ears? I'll concede I may lose this argument. Who's the guy that's living in their head? That's the only one that I'll throw out here.

Let me throw one more thing out here. We'll get off the Sunday page and rewind to the Friday page. This is this year's playoff version of the Zapruder JFK film, and I think one of the issues is we're all trying to find, this is the Gabe Velarde high stick, and we've all become experts at all these things.

We've all become experts now at how pucks roll and how they rise and what the apex is. And we're all trying to figure out, as we look at the Zapruder film and the Velarde film, okay, we know what frame 313 is with JFK. What's frame 313 on the Velarde film okay we know what frame 313 is with jfk what's frame 313 on the velarde play here i don't know it does look like it moves a little bit there seems like the way it's fluttering slightly changes but it is fluttering already it is very difficult to tell. You could not predict this being the situation here.

Okay. I have to tell you, I had a DM from a listener. Okay. They said, I've heard Zapruder film a billion times over the weekend. Do you think you should tell anyone under 25 what the Zapruder film is? I was like, you know what? That's a good point. The Zapruder film was the film that came out

after President John F. Kennedy was shot in Dealey Plaza, which was really the first clear look at what exactly happened with the president as he entered Dealey Plaza alive and exited dead. There's Jeff Merrick's history lesson for the plot. That's a Zapruder film. But I thought it was a great question. I thought we should answer it.

One thing I know, we're not changing anybody's minds, okay? Everybody's mind is made up. Did they see a stick touch the puck or not, okay? Do I think it touched the puck? Yes, I do think it touched the puck. Here's my thing. And I will say this. I want to do a poll. Nobody would do a poll, but I would believe that most of the managers in the league agreed with the way that goal was allowed to stand. It's because when they talked about this stuff there was a real argument that they want goals and if you're gonna overturn a goal you better have a good reason and the fact that we're

still arguing about it and people are talking about rotations like i can't tell you how many people i sent a text to or talking about the physics of it and I go excuse me where's your physics degree from I just want to know if this is a reputable university and look I'm not making fun of the fans because I know how much the fans care like I get it like these arguments they don't bother me in the least bit I just think that does not rise to the standard of conclusive evidence to overturn a goal. I know they want goals. I agree with that argument. If you're going to overturn a goal, you better have a good reason. And like I said, I think he probably touched it.

But Dave McCarthy of NHL.com, he had a great tweet I really agree with. Would you bet your mortgage on that call being overturned? And I guarantee to you, a lot of people wouldn't. A couple of things. First of all, Elliot, was the dress blue or was the dress gold? I don't remember, actually, to be honest. Secondly, it does bring us to one thing that I've always been bewildered by. I've never been able to figure out, and I understand that it's an instinct,

but I really do believe that it costs hockey players. And I think that it costs the Edmonton Oilers at that point, after the Gabe Velarde did a touch of stick or did it not as it lands on Matthias Eichholm's back? Do you see what the players on the ice did? I think Connor McDavid was probably exhibit A. They stopped the point. They stopped and they pointed. The puck kind of goes up and it goes off the stick.

So I call high stick. That's what I saw on the ice. And then, you know, as the play goes on, they score. So they have that review in place for a reason. stick. That's what I saw on the ice. And then as the play goes on, they score. They have that review in place for a reason. I guess they determined they couldn't tell. Now, I can never figure out why players do

this. You keep playing. The officials are watching the puck too, guys. Same thing happened to Mayfield. And you know where you really see it? And I'm always stunned by it. I'm like, guys, the officials are watching. You know when they have the puck over the glass? What do the players do?

They stop and they point. It's like, guys, relax. The officials all saw the puck leave the playing surface. Why do you, as a player, feel the need to stop what you're doing and point at the puck that's just left? Like, you think anyone's missed this? Like coaches not tell players like guys don't stop playing and point at things keep playing it's your job to play not point out a high stick or point out the puck over glass i'm bewildered elliot that this still happens and it had a consequence on the on the

trevor moore goal on Friday. All of a sudden, players are not playing, they're pointing, and a goal goes in. It boggles my mind. Anyhow, we got a series here. Oh, do we ever. This is a real good series.

We also, Elliott, have a series between the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Tampa Bay Lightning. This was an interesting game on Saturday night. OT winner by Morgan Riley. The Lightning has scored some last-minute goals in this series, but it's the Maple Leafs with the biggest last-minute goal of a period so far. Well, you saw the save that caused that face-off was a tip by Morgan Riley that

Vasilevsky was able to save, and then the face-off, excellent. This is just a clean win, right back, and no hesitation through all the bodies. Quick wrister from Morgan Riley. Ryan O'Reilly tied it in the dying seconds of the third. He wins the draw in overtime. Riley with his head up the whole way. Ryan O'Reilly had a heck of a game. We saw the return of Victor Hedman who played 32 minutes and 35 seconds. 36 saves by Ilya Samsonov who was the star of the show. This was very much though Elliot Tampa Bay game. And I think we can be safe to say this one was stolen by the Toronto Maple Leafs netminder. Agree or disagree? I completely agree. And I agree with people who

said the Leafs have lost plenty of games like that over the years. I can think of one to game six in Montreal to carry price. I can think of one to Vasilevsky last year. So I'm sure for them, it felt nice to be on the other side for once. You know what this series needs? It needs Tom Hanks to put on a hockey coach's uniform and say, there's no crying in hockey.

There is too much crying in this series. That's true. First of all, the hockey's been, I mean, I know one of the games was a blowout. The second game was a blowout. But the drama is spectacular, and it's going to get better. Like, this is a hell of a series. I was surprised about Keefe's comments at the end of Game 3 about Tampa manipulating the series. I was surprised about Keith's comments at the end of game three about Tampa manipulating the fight.

To make it happen in terms of the fight and all that, I mean, I look at that whole sequence. First of all, I love how he stood up for himself. Again, just another example of our guy standing in there. But the fight itself, I mean, it's a classic

example of a veteran championship team like Tampa Bay manipulating the officials and taking advantage of a situation, right? I mean, they know we're basically already going on the power play because of the Kucherov situation. So it's a free-for-all. They can do whatever they want, and they just know the way the games get called, they're not going to get another penalty. I mean, you watch that sequence back. To say that we shouldn't be on a five-on-three is, I mean,

the official is literally holding Stephen Stamkos with one arm and his other hand with no glove on is punching Austin Matthews. Not the red linesman, the referee who calls the penalties was holding Stamkos while this was happening, and it's five-on-five instead of us getting another penalty there. So credit to Tampa for recognizing that situation. It's a free pass. You can do what you want, and not only do they get out of it unscathed,

but they take Matthews and O'Reilly with them to the box. Brilliant play by the Lightning there in manipulating that situation. Because even if it was true, Tampa had a goal taken away. I thought it should have counted. No, I'll get to that in a second because I'm with you on that one. But on a night where

it could have been 4-2 after 2 and that goal got taken off the board, and we'll talk about that in a second because I'm with you, Jeff. I thought that was a bad call. on a night where that happens to the lightning you cannot complain about the officiating like you can't just don't do it and the other thing i want to say about that game think about all the players like i'm talking about veterans the least have acquired over the years to help their young players get through it. I don't think any of them have made a bigger play

in the moment than Ryan O'Reilly, who scored the tying goal and then actually won the face-off on the winner. And also, by the way, I want to throw one more thing on the game winner as well. How Ryan O'Reilly kind of had everything positioned for a great screen for morgan riley that was a really good screen in front of vasilevsky like there was so much like

veteran intelligence on that whole play yes but i was looking through all the veterans they acquired and i'm trying to think about a veteran who made as big a play in the moment for them in the playoffs as o'reilly did and i'm sure sure some Toronto fans will come up with something, but to me that was the biggest. And Shen was phenomenal. That was one of those nights where the veterans really paid off for them, in addition to Samsonov and Nyes, who's been excellent. But I agree with you on that call, Jeff.

There was one earlier in the game that counted. You'll notice the Boston-Florida game on Sunday, the first goal, that one counted. And the other thing that stood out to me was when they announced that that goal didn't count, the official said the puck was covered. The league email did not say that. The league email said that no goal because the referee ruled that the play was over. Because it was not covered.

You know, Toronto got a big break there. But it's not how, it's how many. A win's a win in the playoffs. You take them the way you get them. And that was a huge one for Toronto. No doubts. Monday night's game is going to be enormous. You know, I also thought the Riley thing was handled really well. The play with point. I like this five minute review. Let's look at it. I think that is the right way to do it.

I thought it was the right call. I couldn't believe point played again. That guy is as tough as they get. What did you make of Kucherov and Stamkos double teaming Riley and then Austin Matthews of all people fighting, although I use the ironic quotation marks around this, fighting with Stephen Stamkos? That's just teammates standing up for each other, right? Like that's what the playoffs are all about. And I have to tell you, after he got out of the penalty box, I thought Matthews played great. You know, the one thing is I understand the anger of the Tampa players in the moment.

Chernak's out, and you think that Point's been injured on a dirty play. Like, I get it. I can only judge others as I judge myself, and in that moment, I'd be looking for blood too. Yeah, I get it. They're not going to stand around looking for a video review before they turn around and do something to Morgan Riley.

Riley's been given a major, right? So you think it's dirty. You see the penalty call and you're like, that's a dirty play. Well, what they react to, they don't even react to the penalty. They just react to their player on the ice. Yes. They just react to the visual, right? It was like how the Maple Leafs reacted to, you know,

Corey Perry on John Tavares when he was at Montreal. Did you see the Dubas video? Oh, yeah. What'd you think? I tend not to get too upset about those things. Me neither. I know there are a lot of people that will look at it and go, oh, look how unprofessional.

I don't. I mean, if it was Julian Breezebois at Scotiabia bank yelling at maple leafs fans i'd have the same reaction i tend not to get too upset about things like that whatsoever i don't either like they don't i think you can do it like once you know what it reminded me of it reminded me of messiah jerry that the raptors playoff saying f brooklyn oh yeah like it kind of reminded me of that. It's like Messiah Jerry got fined. He's like, I shouldn't have done that. But you know,

everybody knows that he's like, yeah, I'm happy I did that. I don't think Dubas is getting fined or anything like that. And maybe at some point he says, yeah, I probably shouldn't do that. But deep down,

he's like, yeah, I'm happy I did that. And the leaf fans all seem to love it. I don't think he's getting fined or anything. The one thing is there was a rumor going around that he was yelling at some Leaf fans. I don't believe that's true at all. I think it was some Tampa fans he was getting engaged with.

Like, I have so little information other than what my eyes just saw. Yeah. Like, that's it. I don't know what the nature of the conversation was. I don't know what was said, what was was. I don't know what was said, what was said back to him, who he was saying it to. All I know is he was barking at some fans.

I tend not to get too upset about that. Yeah. Me neither. Vegas and Winnipeg. This has been nasty and an unfortunate situation for the Winnipeg jets with Josh Morrissey locking knees with Zach white cloud and then gets hit by a puck rest of theets with Josh Morrissey, locking knees with Zach Whitecloud, and then gets hit by a puck. Rest of the series for Josh Morrissey. Anyway, that game, double OT.

Vegas wins 5-4 as the final. They grab a 2-1 series lead. The rink was great. Fans were outstanding. I really feel bad for Dylan Sandberg. Yeah, me too. I really do. And bless Neil Pionk,

who's trying to be three different defensemen all at the same time to try to compensate for the loss of Josh Morrissey playing over 40 minutes in that game. That was a tough game. You know, Brendan Dillon goes at Keegan Colasar. Like, that was a good old-school scrap. Vegas grabs a 2-1 series lead

to which Elliott Friedman says what? I have a few questions in my DMs about this. I want to mention one thing. I thought an underrated huge moment of that game was in overtime when the Jets have the Golden Knights on their

heels and then the clock crosses 10 minutes of the first overtime and there's an icing. And Mark Stone, if you watch it, Mark Stone points at the clock. He knows. He's like, scrape, timeout. Now, some people asked me, I thought you couldn't have like a timeout on an icing.

According to the NHL rules and the postseason guidebook, and I seen it at the 10 minute mark of each overtime there's a scrape and unlike other times it doesn't matter if it's icing it doesn't matter if it's during a power play you get it so the rules that are in place for regular play do not exist for that scrape so a few of you asked and I wanted to address it on the pod. The reason for that is, in overtime, there are no TV timeouts. And TV timeouts, that's where you're going to get the shovels out,

so there's no commercial breaks whatsoever. They just play. So that's the moment where they can get out there and get some of the snow off the ice. That's why they do it that way, the 10-minute mark. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, so I just wanted to say that I thought that was an underrated huge moment.

If you get the regular situation, Vegas is tired, and you wonder if you get some pressure and a chance to score. I mean, I give full marks to the Jets. They had every excuse to lose that game. They're down 4-1. I really love Sean Reynolds' between-nolds between periods interview with colasar like if you watch the first shift lowry actually hits stone pretty hard and then colasar comes off the bench and he goes right for him he was basically saying our captain's not getting hit

here i'm laying down the law he had a great intermission interview with sean reynolds where he talked about all the guys from manitoba who are so excited to play there. I think this is going to be really hard for the Jets now, obviously, without Morrissey. And this Ehlers situation, we'll see if he plays game four. But Jeff, the way that Bonas is saying that Ehlers has not been cleared. It sounds to me like Ehlers wants to play, but the team is saying no. You know, sometimes that does happen. It doesn't happen often, but sometimes it does happen. And, you know, this whole thing is a little bit weird to me, and maybe we'll get some clarity down the way.

I don't think anybody is complaining now about the bunting suspension anymore. Chernak's going to miss his third straight game. So I think everyone now gets it. The weird one is that I'm not sure that Hartman would have gotten only one game if everyone kind of knew that this was a possibility. Right. Like some of this is a little bit mysterious to me. Hellebuck's going to have to be phenomenal.

They're going to have to be perfect. It's a big challenge, but we thought they were done in game three Hello Buck's going to have to be phenomenal. They're going to have to be perfect. It's a big challenge, but we thought they were done in game three, and they forced it. You know, Kelly pointed it out on the show as well. How good was Alex Petrangelo in that game? He was excellent. And Eichel's getting hot now, too. Like, that's the other thing you're worried about.

Okay, so I got one for you that you'll like. This is right up your alley. Okay. All right. What you got? So when I saw that the Golden Knights were wearing their white jerseys. Okay. Yep. I was thinking about this.

In 2007, in the NBA playoffs, the Raptors were playing the New Jersey Nets. Yeah. And the Raptors had home court advantage. Yeah. And the Raptors had home court advantage. Yeah. And so what they did was basically before game one, it got out that the Raptors were going to put red shirts at all of the seats and they wanted the fans to wear those red shirts during the game. So the Nets heard about this and they had red road jerseys.

So they, they wore them and the nets won game one and i think jason kidd was still there at the time but i remember richard jefferson saying i think jason kidd did too you know what we heard they were wearing the red we're like we put them on and we're like they're coming out to support us. They're Nets fans. It was just a mental game they played. I'm not saying the Golden Knights did the same thing. I've made one assumption about the Golden Knights already, so I'm not doing it again. I'm just saying if that happened, if that happened,

I think it's ingenious. Maybe it's a coincidence, but if it happened, ingenious. Do you think that any of those players looked around the rink and said, look, they're cheering for us. Look, they've come to support us. The Nets did it in 2007 and they made a joke about it. Yeah. I appreciate the reach.

I really do. This is a murekian reach it's a murekian reach this is well past murekian on this one free this is even one that i look at sideways and go uh put it this way elliot when i'm saying oh elliot i think that's a little bit too much. You know you've gone too far. Yeah, I've really gone too far. Evander Kane scored a huge goal in game number four of the Edmonton series on Sunday night. The tying goal with three minutes to go on regulation. Hours earlier, we debuted a tremendous feature interview he did with Christine Simpson.

The full link to Sportsnet's YouTube page can be found on the show notes. Carolina and the New York Islanders. Now Carolina's got this series three to one right now. They can close out a couple of things here. UBS arena on Friday, the analogy that you and I talked about on Friday on radio was water in the basement, the old Teddy Atlas line, about what body shots do to a fighter. Actually, we saw that in the Davis-Garcia fight on Saturday.

What body shots can do is water in the basement, destroys the foundation of the house, and eventually it crumbles. So the point that was drilled to me after the first two games was, don't worry, the Islanders have put water in the basement for the Carolina Hurricanes. And that showed up on Friday, four goals in just over two minutes. And all of a sudden, you know, it's a two to one series and the Islanders are back. Islanders had another. It might have been tipped home in front by Anders Lee,

but it's now a four-goal third period, and the Islanders lead it 5-1 with just over a minute and a half to go. And then Sunday happened, and it's 5-2 Carolina, and Seth Jarvis has a pair, and Rontz is looking fantastic. Made me better. He was right. He's had a heck of a game. The quote was, he's a gem. He has been sparkling this afternoon as the Canes swat this forward. Here comes Seth Jarvis.

He shoots, he scores! Seth Jarvis, his second of the game in Carolina, up 4-0. So I've got a few opinions here. Well, one specifically on the Jack Drury hit by Ryan Pulak here. So around the boards it's really dangerous, as we all know.

It's dangerous for the person making the hit and it's really dangerous for the person absorbing the hit. And it's really tough. And again, you gotta look at hits like this in real time. Slowing it down does not do it justice. Ryan Pulak, to me, is committed to

the hit and it looks as if Drury understands that the hit is coming, and instead of bracing for contact, he starts to turn backwards. Oh, that's always bad. Almost like he's going up ice and gets caught. It's just a really unfortunate play. The thing about it too, Freed, is that it's just far enough away from the boards that, you know,

it's going to be damaging. Like if Jack drew, he's closer to the boards on that hit, he absorbs it either way. And it's not as impactful, but he's just, there's just that space, that light in between him and the boards.

And the minute he starts to peel back and pull lock goes through him you say right away first of all it's a really hard hit second of all i don't think pull lock meant for that to happen he's hitting him with the assumption that you know that jack drew is going to brace for contact it's going to be a a regular hit and then thirdly you look at what happened and you can't help but feel bad for for jackury in that situation. I don't think it's any more malicious than any other body check you're going to serve up around the boards. That's what I think of the Drury hit. What do you think of the series so far?

Carolina's skill has started to take over. By the way, Bo Horvat, albeit in a losing effort, finally found the back of the net. All the offense they're missing, you're just going to need somebody to be an offensive hero every night. And obviously Jarvis was it. I give Ronta a lot of credit. Anderson's hurt again, although they don't seem to think it's that bad. But Ronta's been a saver for them early.

He's done a great job. But the other thing I think about Carolina is this series is a reminder that I don't know how many more teams in the league are more disciplined into what they do and what they think wins for them than the hurricanes are like they always come out and they try to play the same way and establish the same thing and there are certain different rules for different players but generally they play the same way and they stick to it and they're

disciplined and it gets them results. And they've done that a lot in this series, even with all the firepower they're missing, they stick to what works. And, you know, if you would have told me that Ronta would outduel Sorokin, I don't think I would believe it.

Yeah. Like the Islanders play on so much emotion. And we saw that in game three, to me, the hurricanes. Yeah. Emotion is I would believe it. The Islanders play on so much emotion, and we saw that in Game 3. To me, the Hurricanes, yeah, emotion is a part of it, but generally, no matter what happens, we do not get away from what we do right. And I think that's the way winning teams are, and they've shown that so far this series. Dallas, Minnesota, this thing is all tied up at twos.

This weekend, we saw two games, Friday and Sunday. Friday was five to one in Minnesota, a game that was, listen, that may have been the best game we've seen Marcus Foligno play in a long time. He was remarkable in this game. Ryan Hartman, really good in this game as well with three points. Matt Ciccarello with a pair of goals. Listen, Joel Eriksson with only the one twirled 19 seconds. That was a tough one to watch. Phillip Gustafson really good and Ryan Suter absorbed a large amount

of boos. They're on their feet in St. Paul. And that does it for game number three as the Minnesota Wild fire a shot of their own. They win it 5-1 here at home to take a 2-1 series lead in the best of seven. That was Friday. And then Sunday rolled around.

And I don't know about you, but I almost ran out of fingers counting how many breakaways the Dallas Stars surrendered that Jake Ottinger had to save three to Dallas is the final score on this one. Rupia hands with three assists, a pair of goals by Tyler Sagan. You've getting the Dawn off. Who's been really good. The Dawn off has three goals in the playoffs.

The Dawn off has been really good, but this one was all about Jake Ottinger and there's family in the stands and all that. And the camera panning to, you know, proud dad and all of it. This was as much as I think Friday's game might have been the uh the the Marcus Foligno game or the Ryan Hartman game this one was the Jake Ottinger game Sunday was all about Jake Ottinger he was flat out outstanding he'll try and work it ahead stumbles outstanding. Johansson and even a better stop by Jake Ottinger. This is a 4x6 availability to Berriot, and he recovers to take it away.

And this is how relaxed he is. He's able to push off right there with a glove stop with seven seconds to go. Yeah, and that save at the end of the game from Johansson, that was a great reaction shot that the cameras caught of the Wilds just not believing it. I'm with you. I thought Ottinger was fantastic. I didn't like the penalty calls on Foligno. He had some

strong opinions about them too, as a matter of fact. Yeah, but I didn't think those were penalty calls. It's like... How frustrating. Yeah, it's a joke. It doesn't make any sense. I go to hit a guy he touches the puck it's not an appearance i go i get high stick in the face it's not a tripping call when you hit a guy clean on and did they give any further explanation no no arrogant obviously there's been some things i've

disagreed with i always try to decide is it worse this year or is it just the same as every year where there's a number of calls that happen that people get angry at right and everybody says the nhl's officiating is the worst like it's i follow a lot of basketball reporters baseball reporters football reporters everybody's fans and reporters think that theirs is the worst so they must all be terrible the way everybody complains about them. But Jeff, does it seem like the officiating is worse this year? Or do you think that there's just more complaining about it?

Because I will say that there have been some calls I've looked at and like, geez, it does seem like a lot more this year. I don't know. I kind of feel like it's always this way. And it's always this way

in the first round. Anytime there's like really emotional games, emotional games that are really physical. The thing about hockey is all the penalties outside of, you know, puck over glass. Subjective. Are all interpretations. They're all interpretations.

So you're never going to get any consensus. To me, what it underscores is this is probably the hardest game to officiate. And here's the way that i look at it elliot this is what i always bring up to people who are always complaining about all these officials are awful oh they're terrible like they're worse blah blah blah blah i say this to everybody and i'll ask you this are the yes 750 or so players in the NHL, the best in the world. Yes.

Do they make mistakes every single game? Oh, of course. But they're still the best in the world, right? Yes. Where do the best officials worldwide reside when it comes to hockey? I should say another league just for the kicks of it, but I'm not going to do that. It's the NHL. Yeah.

Like, here's the thing. You know what really struck home to me once i remember because i used to be one of those guys in beer league that were like get on officials all the time and then one official uh jeff jerdad is one of our producers loves his stories like yeah you got that right merrick uh loves loves me telling the story one official turned to me and said you want better officiating guy and i said yeah i want better officiating guy and I said yeah I want better officiating he said then you should be a better player because I'm as good a referee as you are a player I'm like oh my god that's so true I'm no good why should I expect better officiating and I always think to myself these are the best officials in the NHL like the the

assumption that somehow like the NHL has this room full of great officials that they're holding back, they refuse to release on the fans, but if they open that door and the best officials come out, somehow the game will be marvelous and everybody will be happy. Not everyone's going to be happy with the calls. These are all subjective calls. This is all interpretation. This is not what I'm arguing.

I know you think it feels like more. It doesn't. It feels like the same thing every year to me. Because I think generally whining about officiating is a loser's lament. I really do. And Edmonton, their fans were furious after game three. They got the benefit of the doubt in game four. Like some of these coaches, they get upset and they know,

like if they want to get the benefit of the doubt in the future, you have to give the benefit of the doubt sometimes in the moment and not pile the gasoline on the fire. I saw that with Peter DeBoer after game number one of Dallas when they lost Pavelski. It was clear to me what he was doing. There have been other cases, like some of these refs, they've been mad. That's why I was so surprised about Keefe the other night, because they got a huge call that went in their favor that took a goal off the board.

The one thing that just seems to me is, like with this Foligno one, these two calls, I know it's fast. I know it's in real speed, but it almost seemed to me like, it's like, we think this happened instead of this absolutely happened. And I think that's where it gets into trouble. You know how you wanted to be inside the mind of Ryan Suter and just experience what it must be like for him. Yes. I feel that way about a lot of situations and I would love to be inside the head of an NHL official, an NHL referee during playoffs. That's why I love using the five minute major to review these penalties. Totally agree.

But on Dumba, the one on Riley. There's no way you can disagree with that. There's no way that a sane thinking hockey fan can disagree with that. A couple things. Number one, I wish for one day I could have been in the shoes of Ryan

Suiters just to know what that feels like to be so universally despised in a big game. Like it must be the greatest feeling in the world. We're going to get to Colorado in a second, but I thought one of my favorite comments from the week was Nathan McKinnon talking about how in the playoffs, how much he loves scoring and visiting rinks.

Yeah, it's fine. I think scoring the playoffs on the road is awesome. It's a cool feeling. No matter how you get them, they feel great. So that's a cool feeling. No matter how you get them, they feel great. So it's an amazing feeling. Oh, yeah, yeah.

I would love to feel that. If I was getting booed like Suter did that day, I would be skating around the whole game with a huge smile on my face. I think that would be the best, like the absolute best, to be that hated like that in an opposing arena you know i'll say this like that minnesota dallas series has been spectacular um you know obviously they broke the goalie rotation i really think that not playing gustafson in game two now what was as much about you know this year he set a record for the most games played he's played in an NHL season like but was it 39 I just think

that Minnesota's worried about how much of this he can handle I think you just keep throwing him out there now you tried it once it didn't work you keep throwing him out there now and just seeing what happens let's get to Colorado and Seattle first of all first NHL playoff game at Climate Pledge Arena and the fans were right there for it. That was a loud rink. That was outstanding. Game three, Colorado wins 6-4, and Jaden Schwartz opens the scoring. And I don't know about you, but I thought, is this really possible?

And then JT Confer scores, and Nathan McKinnon starts to take over the game. And so does Kale McCarr and so does Miko Rantanen. And listen, Valeriy Nechushkin has left the team with personal issues. So he's not available. And of course, we know all about the captain Gabriel Landeskog and his situation. So, you know, you're, you're Nathan McKinnon in this situation and there's like different ways that

players go beast. But when Nathan McKinnon goes beast, like we've talked about this. Oh my God. He goes Rhino. Like he's a rhinoceros. I say it all the time. When this guy goes beast,

he goes Rhino. It's insane. He does whatever he wants. Elliot has Byram high in the zone. McKinnon. He double clutches. McKinnon stepped aside. McKinnon still with it.

He scores! The Mac attack is back, Jack. Just majestic from McKinnon. That was picture perfect. As McKinnon waited just long enough to get it over the shoulder of Philip Grubauer. McKinnon has two, the Avalanche have five, and they have their two-goal lead back with 15-31 to go in the third period. It must be the coolest feeling to just jump on the ice and say,

you know what, this is what I want to do, and you just go and do it. And there's not a damn thing, anything anyone could do about it. That was Nathan McKinnon on Saturday. When I was a kid, one of my favorite NFL players was Earl Campbell. And he was a running back from the Houston Oilers. And there were all these videos of him running. And, like, they would rip his shirt off. And it didn't matter.

Like, he'd just keep running. Like, you could not stop him. I think he was MVP of the NFLfl if not once maybe twice but that's what that was like there was nothing you were going to do to stop him i think a great reality show would be mckinnon for a year for a year in colorado mckinnon wears a mic because what he says and the way he trains and what he sounds like on the ice. Wouldn't you just love to listen to a microphone on McKinnon while he scores that goal? Like Seattle. And then they came back and they tied the game.

I know. But when McKinnon and McCarr go to another level and you add Ranton in there too, man like Seattle just doesn't have that. They're so much better and they're so much improved, but when those three guys decide they're going to take over, the Kraken just don't have anyone on that level. It was really nice

by the way to see Andrew Cogliano back. Yes. I really, you know how I feel about Cogliano. That was great to see. Nonetheless, a great event. The crowd was super. I know Seattle didn't get the result that they wanted to run this thing back again on Monday, but a great first Stanley Cup playoff game in Seattle. A couple more series here.

New Jersey and the New York Rangers. Yeah. 2-1 in OT. Dougie Hamilton, the overtime hero. Taken there by Hamilton. Quickly to Mercer. Toie Hamilton, the overtime hero. But was the real hero Akira Schmidt? He sure was. 35 saves. Stole the game, saved the season.

I don't know how you want to describe it. The Rangers power play, 0 for 5. We talked about it before. Should they go to Schmidt? You know what? Right decision for that game. He was outstanding. Hamilton with OT heroics, I get it. But Akira

Schmid was the story. I think he's your guy now. And I think you have to prepare for the future as this team continues to grow together. He's your goalie. I think what he's doing is he's sending the message that, you know, I'm your guy. You know, they went to a more

regular lineup. You know, the thing about Miles Wood being out is if you would have told me that the Devils were going to win this series, I would have thought that Miles Wood would have been a really big part of it. I felt he would have had to be a really big part of it, the way that the Devils would have to play against the Rangers. You know, obviously he was out. They went back to Siegenthaler, which was a really weird one in the first place.

But Schmid's your guy now. And I thought it was a hugely composed win for him and a massive win for the Devils. Some point in time, someone's going to win on home ice in this series. But unfortunately, the Devils have put themselves so much behind the eight ball early here, they've got no room for error. And they're going to have to be just as committed in game four

because they can't afford to lose that one. Like the only five-on-five goal they've scored is Dougie Hamilton, New Jersey. I don't think you can win a series like that. It's the truth. All right, Rangers with a 2-1 series lead in that one. Meanwhile, the Boston Bruins grabbing a 3-1 series lead over the Florida Panthers in what was a pretty interesting game.

No Aaron Eckblad in this one. Casey Fitzgerald draws in. Anthony DeClaire is scratched. They call up Zach Dalpy. No David Krejci in this one. No Patrice Bergeron as well. And a lot of this was a couple of players. I thought Linus Ulmark was really good. We're going to get more to him

with Kachuk here in a second. Jake DeBrusque with a pair, and I thought Taylor Hall was outstanding. Just outstanding was Taylor Hall on Sunday. Two goals, two assists for Taylor Hall today. That empty netter will seal it. It's the Bruins six and the Panthers two.

Well, you know, the amazing thing to me is no Bergeron seal it it's the Bruins six and the Panthers two well you know the amazing thing to me is no Bergeron although it's possible he plays in in game five they have two days off now no Crecce and they didn't play well in the first two games like Florida for the most part was the better team in the first two games but Boston goes on the road. Without their two top centers. What do they score? 10 goals. And they win two games relatively easily. I understood why they made the change. If I was lying.

Because I know myself. I wouldn't handle it very well. There were a couple of really rough goals. I wondered if that first one. In game three. Probably doomed them a bit in their eyes. I also understand the politics of Bobrovsky's your $10 million goalie. And if the pendulum at all swings his way, you feel you've got to use him.

You know, the Duke-Clair thing, that's a really weird one for me. I understand he doesn't have great playoff numbers. You know, I know that Bill Zito, the GM in Florida, he really loves Delpy. That's a really weird one for me. I understand he doesn't have great playoff numbers. You know, I know that Bill Zito, the GM in Florida, he really loves Delpy. Delpy's, you know, played very well for him in Columbus too, when they were both there in that organization and in the AHL. But the Duclair one surprised me too. And Eckblad also, you know, like that's one of your top defensemen.

Like there were a lot of bad things for Florida. Like when I looked at the lineup they put out there, I was like, that's a lot of change for one game. Okay. Elliot, before we wrap this, the playoff portion of the podcast up here, I want to talk about Lena Solmark.

First of all, it's been an incredible season for Lena Solmark. He's probably going to win the Vesna trophy, scored a goal. Like, I mean, he's had quite a season. Lena Solomark. He's probably going to win the Vesna Trophy, scored a goal. Like, I mean, he's had quite a season, Lena Solomark has. And he tried to fight Matthew Kachuk at the end of the game.

We wondered, you know, at what point this series was going to turn into Matthew Kachuk versus the Boston Bruins. And there have been moments where it's looked like it was going to be Matthew Kachuk versus the Bruins. And by the end on Sunday, it was Matthew Kachuk versus the Bruins, specifically the goaltender. Your thoughts on that? Well, he had to cross check to Hathaway and Kachuk this year, I think on most hard ballots, he's second or third.

We all know who's number one. And then I think it's some combination of Pasternak or Kachuk, who's two or three. They need him. He can't take the risk of, I know he's frustrated, he can't take the risk of getting suspended or getting thrown out of games by doing stuff

like that. And then he took a big hit for McAvoy, and then when he hit Pasternak, I was and then i when he had poster knock i was surprised it didn't lead to like a rumble right there now obviously it happened later i mean you know to be honest you know he wanted to fight him oh yeah he got his gloves off and montgomery laughed about it he was like i'm really good about that i'm trying to think like what would have happened if that was the 1978 boston bruins like there would have been body bags in the building if that would have happened it was crazy it was absolutely uh absolutely crazy scene but you know what

nobody was turning off their televisions you know people were loving the whole thing one last thing i wanted to talk about. Did you hear Brad Marchand in the postgame? What did he say? Which we can't put in the newspaper. Do you think he has crossed the line here in the smack that he's talking? I think the NHL

and the media outlets have crossed the line by allowing that those mics to continue to play and try to go down to listen to what's said on the benches while that's going on there's a reason guys don't want mics on the bench and that's wise because they're going to take advantage of it at some point and they did regardless what's said by tuchChaka or by other guys,

there should never be an instance where Mike picks up any of that stuff. What's said on the ice and what's said on the benches should be there. That's the way that guys play, especially come playoff time. And the fact that the media outlets allowed that to happen, it's very disrespectful to the agreement that we have in place. And that's how guys are going to want to push and take them off the bench and take to get the guy in the middle of the bench way out of there because it's going to get guys in trouble. And that's not fair and it's not right.

Point taken, Brad, and I respect it. You'll remember in game two there was that yelling match at the bench after the Nosek hit on Eric Stahl. Yep. Even though Ray Ferraro was talking over a lot of it some of it gets heard right oh yeah and there were some things there that people were very upset about and marchand was asked about it in the post game and he wouldn't let the answer be about what Matthew Kachok or anyone else said He said that That use

Of the microphones Was against what the league And the players had agreed to And if that's the way it's going to be Used the microphones Shouldn't be out there Look I'm in broadcasting I want the microphones

Around I want the audio around. I want the audio around. I think it's a better show, and I think people enjoy it. But there's going to be a lot of players who rally around Marchand with this. I totally agree with that. Like, I know not everybody likes Marchand all the time, but this is why he's really liked around the league, and his words really carry. Because since he put that out there, the momentum is going to grow.

And I have said this before. I'll repeat it. I want the microphones everywhere. But I don't think people can handle what happens in these big games sometimes. Like I have no tolerance for racist language, language that, you know, insult someone's sexual orientation or gender or anything like that. I don't have time for it.

And I hold myself to the same standard. You've got to be smart enough about what you say, but I know I'm not perfect i know that what offends me it takes a lot more to offend me than to offend most other people but i just think that now no matter what you say someone's gonna have a problem with it our world now there's too much social media, there's too much noise. And the thing about the mob is you don't control it. There's going to be things that people are going to say, no one's going to care about that. And it turns into a fiasco. And there's

going to be things that people are going to say, oh, that's bad. And it goes nowhere because you just don't control the mob. You don't know what is going to upset people. And Marshan's opinion here is going to grow because there's always going to be things that are going to be said that even if a majority of people says that's not too bad, there's going to be enough people who get upset that it's going to become a thing. enough people will get upset that it's going to become a thing. And I really think that Marchand's reaction to that is going to carry weight with a lot of players. The only thing that I think, and I can understand why players would feel that way. I get it.

Totally understand. The problem is what we're talking about here in some respects is technology. And I think the onus is going to more become on the players to discipline what they say, because there will be technology that picks all of this up and it will all get out there. Anyhow. Yeah.

That genie is out of the bottle. Like all of a sudden you just can't stop it. Now the onus is going to have to be on the players unless they want to find themselves in really awful situations having said something in the heat of the moment, the passion of the moment that they may regret when it gets released. I think the onus is going to eventually

be, again, I understand why the players feel this way. And this was not the agreement. I get that. But right now that's just putting a band-aid on something you don't like. but eventually the onus is going to have to be on the players unless they're fine with all that getting out i think that it swung in that direction i just wonder in that particular situation we're going to get to

the point where they go into the truck and say you're going to have to have some kind of kill switch around a reporter, a ringside reporter's mic, if that's going to be a problem. I can see them doing it. I can see them asking for the removal of the between the benches position. Or a way to turn off the mic. I don't think that helps anybody. I don't either. But the way that Marchand phrased it, he talked about the agreement.

And that says to me that I wonder if the players are like, we have to revisit this. Okay, real quick before we get to a really interesting question from the inbox, Tyler in North Dakota. I want to ask you about Vancouver assistant general manager Emily Castonguay who we've been talking plenty about the last week or so what's the latest yeah so like I think a lot of these teams like Pittsburgh I think they're still collecting their names and I think Philly's still collecting their names and they're reaching out and just gauging some interest.

But one of the names that got out there was Emily Castonguay, who, as you mentioned, is the AGM and one of the AGMs in Vancouver. And look, I think that the Canucks were a bit surprised at how this all happened and got out there. But I heard that she indicated to the organization she wasn't looking to leave and she was happy there. So I don't think that's going to go anywhere, but I think that teams are looking to start interviewing some different candidates, not the same usual pool. And some of that is they want to know who some of the younger former hockey

players are like you know whether it's a steve stales or sean horkoff or something like that or who some of the analytics people are that are ready for the next step or even some of the female candidates who may be ready for a bigger role that's why i think her name came up and I do think she was someone that they were doing their research into, but I don't think it's going anywhere. I think she indicated to the Canucks she was very happy to stay and continue to be a part of their organization, so I don't think that one's going to continue.

Let's finish off the pod here with something special that Amel's actually put together. Actually, Amel is responsible for all the work on this one. Okay? So this is an email that we get from Tyler in North Dakota. I'm watching the Oilers-Kings game on multiple TVs, one ESPN feed and one Sportsnet feed. My inner geek has to sync up the games exactly

to compare how each broadcast produces the game. Wow. My question is, I know, Tyler, geez, Game 7, Tyler, that's hardcore. Here's the question is this. Do networks share camera feeds in their own production trucks? Are they, quote, community cameras that each network can pick and choose what to show? Some views are identical while others are off. So here's what to show. Some views are identical, while others are off.

So here's what Emil did. Emil got in touch with a longtime executive producer of Hockey Night in Canada, does a lot of our big events at Sportsnet, one of the more notable ones, the draft, also in charge of Hockey Day in Canada, the one and only Joel Darling. So let's let Joel handle this answer.

Hey, Tyler from North Dakota. Thanks for your question. On many occasions, there are more than one broadcaster of NHL games. Sometimes there are up to five, and that would include a Canadian national broadcaster, and that would include a Canadian national broadcaster, a U.S. national broadcaster, a local team, home and away, and possibly a French national broadcaster. So sometimes we call it we have a five-way when there are many broadcasters being part of an event. On some events like the All-Star Game or an outdoor game, there may only be one broadcaster or maybe two. But in each occasion, there is what we call shared cameras between the broadcasters. So on many occasions, what you will

see is the main play-by-play camera is a camera that is shared by both broadcasters. So if the game was being done in the U.S., the national broadcaster in the U.S., whether it's TNT or ESPN, would provide that camera. But Sportsnet in Canada would basically use that camera when play is happening. So the play-by-play camera is a shared camera. And then beyond that, broadcasters have the ability to put in their own cameras to control on their own, or they can also share cameras. their own cameras to control on their own, or they can also share cameras. So, and again, an example on the Stanley Cup playoffs, if there's a game in Toronto, Sportsnet may put out two robotic cameras that we would control, and ESPN or TNT would put out one that they would control. But that doesn't mean that we can't use their cameras or they can use ours.

So mostly the game is shot in a way where most cameramen shoot it what we call safely, meaning that it can be taken at any time. So on many occasions, we, again, it helps with cost for one thing, where we don't have to put a camera in every location. So even the net cams, for instance instance we just have one net cam in each net that is shared by all the broadcasters so again that's what we call them we call them shared cameras and it helps on the costs and it helps us allow to get more camera coverage on a game by sharing our facilities with other broadcasters. And that's Joel Darling. And no, Joel, you don't get a credit on today's podcast.

But great answer nonetheless. Really good answer. Taking us out of the podcast today, two brothers from Grand Rapids who named their band after their younger brother and his fascination with red t-shirts. Cal and Red formed in the summer of 2019, creating music that's hazy and summery, jangly and guitar driven.

With their 2021 single Zebra, here's Cal and Red on 32 Thoughts the Podcast. Good night. All we got is a little moonlight Found the hours to the day You said we've been looking all right You said we've been looking all right Wrong, then I call I've been coming down Sticking out the door And I know that I'll find

Nothing at all You were in the dark