32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Kelly McCrimmon

Episode Date: November 16, 2022

Vegas Golden Knights General Manager, Kelly McCrimmon, joined Jeff and Elliotte to discuss their hot start to the year, some of the challenges last season, the narrative around the club, trading for Jack Eichel, his approach to the salary cap and thoughts on offer sheets, Mark Stone’s injury, why he chose Vegas over other teams, his memories of North Battleford, SK, buying the Brandon Wheat Kings and Kelly talks about his late brother Brad McCrimmon.This podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Music Outro: Maybe Smith - In The WoodsListen to the full track hereThe views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

By the way, the joke is that George hired you so that you could talk and he didn't have to. You guys have had him. He's an articulate, well-spoken, thoughtful guy. Maybe he just doesn't like you guys. It could be true. There's no question about that. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented by GMC and the new Sierra AT4X. Life is pretty good right now for Vegas general manager Kelly McCrimmon. His Knights are the top team in the West. Huge bounce back season. The Eichel trade is paying off big time. The net minding hasn't just held steady. It's been excellent. Mark Stone is healthy after having a crater removed from his back. And once again, VGK is A-OK in the talk of the league as well. In this talk with me and Elliot, you'll hear McCrimmon talk about last season,

where it all kind of fell apart. Jack Eichel's ADR surgery one year later. How they originally planned to handle his cap hit. Treating cap space as a commodity. Really interesting stuff there from Kelly. Offer sheets, life in North Balfour, Saskatchewan. And also, Kelly shares some stories about his late brother, the great Brad McCrimmon. Special thanks to Nate Ewell, Vegas VP of Communications, for making the interview you're

about to hear happen. We caught up with Kelly McCrimmon when the Knights came through to play the Maple Leafs. Enjoy. Listen to the 32 Thoughts podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. Pleased to be joined by Kelly McCrimmon, General Manager of the Vegas Golden Knights, and considering how well your team is playing right now and how everything's gone so far this season, maybe the appropriate question is, Kelly, are things great or really great? How do you feel these days? Well, I don't know in the National Hockey League that they're ever either one of those things unless you're the last team standing

but we've had a good start to the season coming off of last year was really important that we could had a good start to the season coming off of last year. It was really important that we could get a good foundation early, and we've been able to do that and get some wins. So we'll take every win we can when we're getting them. What goes through your mind when you're going through this to start this season? Are you the kind of person that says, okay, I'm going to enjoy this while we're on this heater right now? Or are you thinking, okay, how am I going to handle this?

Or how are we going to handle this when this hot streak ends? You know, for me, you don't even really stop and think of it in those terms. You think about, you know, where your team's at. You think about the strength and weaknesses of your team as you get a certain amount of games into the season. I think that general managers around the league have a pretty good feel for their own team. You obviously are paying attention elsewhere in the league as to what's going on in the divisions with the different races, different teams situation, but your focus is always

the next game. You know, players, coaches, it's clearly the next game. As a manager, your responsibilities are to have a broader perspective than that, which I do. But at the same time, we're still, you know, today is game day and that's, uh, that's different than what yesterday was and that's different than what tomorrow will be.

So it keeps you in the moment, uh, certainly. And yet, uh, as I said, if you take a little bit broader perspective, uh, we're 11 and two. So that that's encouraging. Kelly, I asked one of your returning players to describe last year and he said, I'll give you two words. He said, it sucked bleep. And, you know, he just kind of, then he kind of laughed and said,

you just don't know from the outside how brutal last year was. Was that an accurate way of describing it? Well, when you miss the playoffs, it's disappointing. First of all, it's humbling. I think regardless of what the reasons might have been that led to it, I feel objectively the injuries were the reason why we missed the playoffs and the types of players we missed for the amount of time that they missed, what it did in terms of just being able to grow your team game.

I think that one of the things that we missed last year was even at the end when we had a lineup card that looked better, we hadn't been together as a team all year. And I've always had such a strong belief that your team has to get better over the course of a season. It has to be better in the second half than it was in the first half. It has to be better in the playoffs than it was in the second half. And I think when you look at, you know,

but just look at our division, I look at a team last year, like Calgary, they got better and better as the year went on. February was that month that, you know, had the makeup games that kind of got the schedule back on track after the COVID pauses through the holiday season. And we came out of the pause or out of the break, I guess it was the all-star break, you would call it.

And we beat Edmonton, uh, on, I want to say a Monday night, maybe a Tuesday night and went into Calgary the next night. We were in first place, uh, in the division. So, you know, that's how quick it can change. And maybe Jeff, to your question earlier, do you feel great or do you feel really great? Well, that hasn't even crossed my mind, uh, to feel great about where we're at because just how quickly it can change. So to your point,

Elliot, to the question that you've asked, you know, what's interesting and, you know, people on the outside would probably be surprised to hear me say it this way. You know, this is our sixth hockey team, our sixth season on the ice. I felt last year was the best team that we had of the five years. I think that when you go through our history as a team, we think our team has been better each year. Unfortunately, for a variety of reasons, we weren't able to demonstrate that. But I do feel that, as I touched on, missing the playoffs is humbling. Our team probably needed an off season.

And when I look at, you know, the Islanders went through a similar situation last year when I just can't give Tampa enough credit for the playoff runs that they've had and just the wear and tear that it takes on a team over time. We'd been to back-to-back conference finals or semifinals, whatever term you use. We, you know, like the rest of the world, did it through COVID. One of those years was in a bubble in Edmonton. We went into camp last year. We had a lot of injuries going into camp.

We had more injuries coming out of camp. We had more injuries once we got through preseason. Game two, we lost Mark Stone. We lost Max Pacioretty. Shortly thereafter, we lost William Carlson, Zach Whitecloud. Interestingly today, we came through Toronto last year at this exact same time of year. And, uh, I had sent to me today, our lineup that we, uh, played in Toronto last year, when we came through Toronto won the game for nothing.

I remember that. And, uh, you know, it just almost was taken aback by the fact that that's what we looked like. So it is what it is. Every team that misses the playoffs has a story to tell. And these aren't excuses. They were the realities that we dealt with. But I think collectively all of these things together

gave us a chance to recharge, gave us a chance to properly, gave us a chance to properly recover our injuries. We had, you know, different guys that had surgery, but I think as important as any of that is it also gives us a mindset where we have something to prove. And I think that that was, you know, where this organization really got a foothold that first year was every guy there had something to prove. He'd been rejected by the team he came from, and it became a pretty powerful thing, that type of mindset. So that's a long answer to a short question, but that's how I saw last year.

So you've got a guy that gave you a two-word answer and a guy that gave you a five-minute answer. You know, it's a good answer, and at the end you said something. I was going to leave this till later, but you kind of brought it up. And when the Vegas Golden Knights made the NHL or came to the NHL, you were everybody's darlings.

Everybody loved Vegas. And people said, it's kind of when the Jets came back. If the Jets weren't your favorite team, they were your second favorite team. Vegas, when they started, they were your favorite team or your second favorite team to your own team. And there seemed to be a feeling

last year Kelly that the Golden Knights lost that that they churned out too many players that they changed the roster too much the the Dadunov situation things like that that maybe you guys lost that love that other people had for you and maybe this gives you the chance to get it back I'm not really that concerned about it, Elliot, to be honest. I think that one of the things I've observed or learned

or I guess reinforced what you think you maybe have always known, there can become narratives in our game that may or may not be accurate. And when you talk about churning out players, I would say to you that in a salary cap world, if you looked around 32 different teams, and I should break that into different groups, if you're a team trying to win, because not every team unfortunately is, if you're a team that's trying to win and trying to be a contending team, trying to be a playoff team, and you're going to be at the salary cap because the best thing you can do for your team is to be at the salary cap, it involves hard decisions.

And yet, as we sit here today, if you go back to the 2017-18 season, which was our inaugural season, there's only four teams in the NHL that have more players still on their team than we do. We have seven, and there's only four teams that have more players still on their team than we do. We have seven and there's only four teams that have more than that. So I don't think that the narrative was necessarily accurate. I think that it was magnified and takes on a life of its own. And it is what it is. As I said to you, it doesn't really matter to me. I know what I feel about our own team and how we run our organization.

One of those new players, Jack Eichel. And one of the things I've always wondered about, and, you know, we would ask and people would be curious about when you made the Eichel trade, we all wondered how are they going to do this? How are they going to fit Eichel trade we all wondered how are they going to do this how are they going to fit Eichel in and the one thing we kept coming back to was they have time I don't think that you made the trade without a plan I just I'm not sure and you can tell me I'm wrong I don't know that what you intended to do to fit him in was what you ended up doing to fit him in. How different was it from what you thought you were going to have to do to get him in to what you ended up doing?

Well, it ended up completely different, Jeff, because of all the injuries that we had as the season went on. So it sent a position where we had a lot of players on LTI. I don't think it was even close at the end in terms of having the ability, the space to bring him back into the lineup. I think when we made the trade, I guess to go through it, because it's pretty much the year anniversary of that as well. I remember we were on this trip when the discussions were nearing close. We made the trade, I believe we were playing Ottawa that morning. We did the announcement

there. It goes back to what you think you need to do for your team to be a championship team. And when we played in the bubble in Edmonton, you know, you watch those teams that have won. So you watch St. Louis with a Petrangelo, you watch Tampa with a Hedman, and we didn't have that. We didn't have that. So that was why when Alex Petrangelo became a free agent, we were very interested in that player because we were trying to win a Stanley Cup. That's the objective of our organization. So that's why we were aggressive there. That meant trading Nate Schmidt.

That meant creating space to be able to do that. But, you know, again, if you're trying to win a championship, that's a pretty good opportunity to add a really core piece. Jack Eichel's situation was very similar for us. When you look at championship teams, they have that top center. They have that F1, that first line center that we were doing probably more by committee than we were by having a guy that was clearly an elite talent and upper echelon player as position. So that was our motivation for engaging in discussions with Kevin Adams and Buffalo. Those discussions went on a long time because it wasn't easy. It wasn't going to be easy to make this work. There were risks.

If you remember at the time he had, you know, he was in need of neck surgery or, you know, whatever path that he had may have gone down. Otherwise had he remained with the Sabres, whatever those different, you know, situations were, he had a lot of risk with, uh, with that. So when we made the trade, it wasn't impossible that he might not return at all, uh, for the season. So, you know, if that was the case, that would be, uh, be one set of circumstances. If he did return, you know, we had put, uh, Alex Tuck in the deal, which was just under 5 million. Peyton Krebs was in the deal who was on an entry level number. So that's just over 5 million.

We would need to clear $5 million. That would be what we would have to do to be able to, everything else being equal, bring Jack onto our cap. So we had a plan in place for that that would get us to where we needed to go. And that was the trade of getting it down off, which was rescinded by the league. And then I guess if you use the term, the only thing that saved us was we had so many more injuries

coming down the stretch that it became a non-factor. But I can't sit here and tell you that it's easy to acquire a $10 million player in season. I think it's really uncommon. I don't know that it's been done, you know, maybe ever, but I sit here today telling you that I'm very happy that we did that. And I sit here today telling you that Jack is, you know, a really important part of our team and is going to be, you know, a key player in anything that we accomplish as a group. One of the things that a lot of people wondered about was there was that time between having the

ADR surgery and by the time he joined Vegas. And to your point, there was a chance that he wasn't going to play at all. I think we all understand that. And I think what a lot of people wondered about was how does it feel right now to be a Vegas School of the Knights hockey player, knowing that Jack Eichel is coming into this lineup and they're going to have to do something with cap space and maybe it's going to be me. That was kind of what happened with Petrangelo too.

I think I told you this once, but I remember the rumors were going out on the Friday or Saturday that you were going to get Petrangelo and you didn't announce it until the Monday. And that whole weekend I had players like calling and texting, do you know if I'm going to get traded? That's wild stuff. I can't remember the days exactly on Petrangelo.

Was the opening of free agency on a Friday that year? No, no, it was on the Monday. It was on the Monday? But on the Friday, the rumors really started to get out that it looked like Vegas. Yeah, and when did we do it, on the Tuesday? Monday or Tuesday, yes. Yeah, those times of season are hard for players.

And, you know, I think that, you know, Petrangelo, then later Eichel, I'll get to your direct question in a second, Jeff. You know, that also fed the notion that, boy, Vegas is in on every guy, every guy that comes available. And that just isn't true. Wasn't true. But again, that's sort of where, uh, it goes every time one of these guys, you know, this

summer, a lot of people thought Matthew Kachuk would be a guy that we were going to be, be in on. And I think that two players we've touched on are core pieces on, uh, what a championship club looks, needs to look like. Petro's done it, he's captained a team, two of Stanley Cups. So I think I've explained our thought process on both of those guys, but our core is our core. I know we've got Mark Stone on our team who appreciates that we are trying to win. own on our team who appreciates that we are trying to win.

He appreciates that we spend the cap and that we're aggressive with how we manage our salary cap and that type of thing. So, you know, your established players want to win, certainly. And Jeff, again, to your point, I can't speak necessarily to how that might have impacted players. I really can't. Or is it a concern, like from your approach, is that a concern? Okay, so a lot of my players are wondering here. Would it be anything that you would even address with the team?

No, it wouldn't be anything that we'd address. And we missed the playoffs after all of that had been sorted out. So that period of time where you touch on were guys affected by it, was it affecting our team? I touched on it earlier in our discussion here. We were in first place seven days into February. So it was after that that our team didn't get enough wins through February and March to be able to be a playoff team.

So I guess I can't speak for that. Uh, definitively, I think it was manageable. With Jack Eichel, you took a risk. You know, nobody knew about this surgery and Jeff and I did a lot of work on that, but it's a big difference between talking about it and actually saying we're going to do it. I don't know if you're a religious man, Kelly, but were you holding the rosary when you made that deal? Well, no, I'm not. Some of my loved ones are, so maybe they were for me as much as Jack.

But no, it was uncharted waters. I guess the one thing, it's interesting how you look at things, and there's people that did just what you said, Elliot, where they try to find out more information about these surgeries and what the chances of success are and everything else. And I personally took a lot of comfort in that, knowing how much work Jack had done on what the best surgery was for him and speaking with Pat Persaud, which we had permission to do,

the process they were going through, why wouldn't he choose what was best for him? There was a risk. I was as confident as you could be that that was going to go well. And, you know, was there any guarantees? Of course there wasn't, but, you know, we had a UFC fighter in Las Vegas that had the surgery, I believe a couple of years prior, and I

didn't know this at the time, but after we made the trade, there was an article on him and, you know, he's in a sport where, uh, I think his words were, you know, people are trying to twist his neck off, uh, every time he's in a sport where I think his words were, you know, people are trying to twist his neck off every time he gets in the ring and he hadn't had a, had an issue. There's been two more NHL players that have had the surgery since Jack has. So, you know, and it kind of gets lost in, in all of this, but pretty courageous for Jack to stand his ground. And I think he had the support of players, you know, to have that right, you know.

And, you know, we were fully supportive of him when we made the trade that he had done his own due diligence and we were comfortable with the decisions he made. Dr. Presmak was, you know, the surgeon he chose to do that. And the surgery went well, the rehab went well. Jack's commitment to getting back in the lineup was extraordinary and he was able to get back in three and a half months or whatever the timeframe was. How long until it was the Jack Eichel that you expected and hoped for? I described it when people would ask me last year how Jack was playing, I would say, geez, you see glimpses every night that he does, you know, three or four or five things that, uh, that most guys can't do. And, and, uh, you could really, uh, see that with his play last year. The difference this time around is, uh, starting fresh on day one with, uh, with a training camp with his teammates has been another level, uh, this year.

You know, he's in great shape. He's really strong. You know, people underestimate or don't realize how strong a player is when you watch him protect the puck. You know, his skill and his vision is elite. So I think it's really helped him to be part of it from day one. I think it helps, you know, just in terms of him being able to demonstrate leadership by being with the team

from the beginning, I think the, the just put provides a better, better situation for him. You know, everybody else was back at camp. Mark Stone had his surgery. He was back. Alec Martinez had fully recovered. He was back. So I just think sort of some of those things together, uh, made it pretty positive for Jack to start fresh this year. Have you seen the picture of what was removed from Mark Stone's back? I have, yep. Is it disgusting? I don't tell the world like you that I have, but I have.

I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it. Well, it's not something I would share. If I were Mark Stone, I would probably keep that to myself. Again, were you worried about him at all? Because there were rumors that his back was very serious. Well, his back was serious and it had gone on for a period of time. And, you know, again, when you speak to, you know, the pundits,

we put Mark Stone on LTIR when we took Jack off and people made it sound like we were cooking the books on Mark Stone. Well, the guy was obviously, as time went on, badly injured. And, you know, it was game two. He literally took what was his first shot on goal of the season. We'd played Seattle the first game and he hadn't had a shot on goal. His first shot on goal of the season. We'd played Seattle the first game, and he hadn't had a shot on goal. His first shot on goal that season was in LA,

and it brought him to his knees. And he came to the bus after, and every bus in the NHL was the same. The coaches, the managers sit at the front, the players sit at the back. Literally, when you watched him walk out, you got out of your seat so he could sit at the front. He just didn't have any, uh, he was in tremendous pain and, you know, you, you do what you can in season. Your decisions are always

different in season because of what's at stake. So, you know, we shut him down. I can't remember exactly how many weeks, um, you know, our training staff did a tremendous job in terms of, uh, Um, you know, our training staff did a tremendous job in terms of, uh, rehabbing them, getting them in front of the right people, uh, all of those things. And, and yet it required what it required ultimately, uh, at the end of the year with the surgery. And, and when, when they made the final decisions, uh, this would be, you know, following our season and they came back and said the recommendation was surgery. Uh, I was really

happy, uh, that that was a recommendation because I wasn't confident that more of the same, uh, was going to be the answer. And it was, it was a slow rehab too. It was a, it was a big surgery and, and, uh, you know, it was a surgery where, you know, for a long time, you're not, uh, not allowed to do anything, which is really contradictory

to player rehabbing. They want to get back to work as quick as they can, but he was, you know not, uh, not allowed to do anything, which is really contradictory to player rehabbing. They want to get back to work as quick as they can, but he was instructed to, you know, just basically do nothing for an extended period of time and then work his way back, which he's been able to do. Let me ask you one, uh, more follow-up on, on Eichel. And can you remember the first practice with contact? Because I was thinking about this. I would not want to be the first player to test Eichel physically at that practice. Kelly was from the WHL. No, I know he is.

I know he is. It's like, go for it, Rams. Go get him. Hit him at center ice. But do you recall the first time that he practiced with contact? If that were me, first of all, if I'm Kelly McCrimmon and I'm watching that, I'm just crossing my fingers. And if I'm one of the players on the ice,

I don't want to be the guy that tests it. Yeah, he skated for quite a while before he took contact. And even that was a process where after practice, guys would sort of jostle him in a corner or whatever. And that would, you know, ramp up to where it was sort of a one-on-one battle in a corner, but obviously much different than what full contact is. My concern was Moore's first game and shame on me. I can't remember who it was against. I want to say Colorado, to be honest with you.

And he took a hard hit that night. I can't remember, uh, who hit him exactly, but it was a hard hit. And, uh, you know, I said to George McPhee sitting beside me that, you know, that's a pretty good hit. Uh, that's a pretty good test for him, which, uh, you know, you know, Jack would have to speak to it. I don't think it was an issue for him at all. Perhaps mentally becoming comfortable and trusting it. Maybe that was, that's something that Jack could answer. You know, probably a bigger issue for him last year, not many games into his return, he broke his thumb. So, you know, Jack gained a lot of respect from our guys last year. He's an incredibly hard worker.

He broke his thumb and would have to, you know, nerve block the entire thumb to be able to play. You know, when I was there, you know, what happened, I want to say on a Thursday and we were playing an early game Saturday and, you know, he got a certain amount of nerve block and his thumb went out, couldn't do it. I didn't think he was going to play, went back in, got more, came out, played that day

and never missed a game afterwards. So, you know, I think that, you know, that would have been more of a hindrance for him likely in terms of his on ice than what the neck ended up being. You mentioned, you know, you talked a little bit about getting hired. How many times did NHL teams try to hire you before you took this one?

There had been different times that there were opportunities. I think what was really intriguing for me with Las Vegas is, and it hasn't turned out this way, I love drafting. I love developing. I love building teams. This was a blank canvas. This was a chance to do all of those things. And clearly it goes without saying, we haven't said it here yet today, you know, our existence has gone, you know, pretty much exactly the opposite of what we anticipated it would, right? So when I say to

you, those were the things that appealed to me about the job. You know, I remember, I remember, uh, you know, talking with George and he was, uh, you know, really pressed with Bill and that, you know, I said, if we do our jobs well, well, we have a chance to win because that's not always the case. Right. And, and George really felt, uh, that we would, you know, another interesting thing is I'd never met George McPhee in my life, which, uh, in this game, uh, doesn't happen very often. And, uh, uh, the guy has been just an unbelievable mentor. He's a tremendous friend. Uh, he's a great hockey person and, and, and an even better person, right. He's been, uh, really, really, uh, good to work with. And just, those are sort of some of the reasons that this one made sense for me.

It just was, I was, you know, to make a short answer for you, I was fascinated by expansion. And when that first year was over, you could multiply it by a thousand for how it actually was in terms of enjoyable.

One of the things that I've admired about you as a manager with the Vegas Golden Knights is how you view cap space. We talk a lot about coming out of the lockout of 2005, players having to relearn the game, break old habits, think about the game a different way, play a different way. And I've always felt that under a salary cap as well, managers, pre-salary cap to post-salary cap have had to learn how to manage team a different way as well. And the old school thought being, you know, if you give a player away, you'll lose the trade. But in a salary cap world, you don't receive nothing. You receive cap space and it is a commodity. And I think the smart general managers understand that and get that and can use that.

smart general managers understand that and get that and can use that. How do you view cap space? Do you see it as equal to having a player? Because I've always said like, it's only nothing if you can't get players. Cap space is only equivalent to zero if you can't get players to play for you. How do you see cap space? Yeah, well, really good question. And, you know, really conflicting views on that. I think fans, uh, in some respects kind of understand it, but I don't know that they do. It's been

magnified by a flat cap. So, so that's hit 32 teams. And again, the teams that are in a position where they're trying to contend, it obviously affects them more. So the flat cap has really put a squeeze on players, on teams, for sure. Before I get to my answer, it's where, and it's interesting that they're being recognized this week, it's where I had a lot of respect for Kenny Holland because when he was in Detroit pre-cap, they had the best teams in the NHL. And when the league went to a cap, they continued to have great teams, which wasn't the case with all free spending teams. Went from like 72 to 39. Yeah, exactly.

So it wasn't true of all teams. So interesting that they're honoring their three championship teams this week. So the cap space is an asset. And it's hard for people to understand why. I guess our most recent example would be Max Pacioretty. We traded to Carolina for $7 million of cap space. That's what we got back. You know, I hope I don't miss anyone in Hague, Howden, Kolasar, Nick Waugh was the other who are really good players. Zach Whitecloud would have been an RFA.

We extended him six-year contract during the season. So it's a really good problem when you've got young players like that that have earned a raise. And when you look at the makeup of a championship team and you've got big numbers allocated to your top players, that layer of players that's in the salary range that I've just laid out with those players in particular, those guys are really important to your team. They're good players. They contribute to help your team win, and you have the ability to pay them. So that was part of what we did with that money. We wanted to extend Riley Smith.

Riley Smith's contract was expiring. He is a glue guy for our team. He is one of those year one guys. Absolutely zero maintenance, two way, excellent penalty killer, you know, just, just a guy that we did not want to lose. So, uh, you know, had we not extended Riley Smith and kept Max Pacioretty, I think people

would have understood that. But because we moved Max Pacioretty and kept Riley Smith, people think we gave Max Pacioretty and kept Riley Smith, people think we gave Max Pacioretty away. What were we thinking? And that's where you just really need to be able to quantify it in the terms that matter, and that is what can you do with that space with respect to your team? Were you ever worried about an offer sheet?

It's always in the back of your mind because guys like you. offer sheet? It's always in the back of your mind because guys like you, but, uh, you know, we weren't at risk. Uh, L8 is how I would say that to you. Really? Okay. We would have been able to manage it, but,

you know, it's not what we would like to have happen to us. And the other thing about offer sheets that, uh, sometimes is forgotten, the player needs to want to play somewhere else. And our players love playing in Las Vegas. And, you know, again, the RFAs I mentioned, I think those players really have found the, you

know, when I look at those guys, Howden was a trade, Nick Waugh was a trade, Keaton Colesar was a trade. You know, those guys found their NHL legs in Las Vegas. That's where they became everyday NHL players. And I think you've always got a sense of allegiance to want to continue to be a part of that. So those guys, we were really happy to keep

in our organization. That was the thing about Foley I was told. Someone said, if someone offers sheets a golden knight, then Foley's going to get them back. That's what someone said to me about him. I got a good laugh out of that. We've never, ever had that discussion. You know, I just, like, I, you know, it's,

that's, uh. It's good to have that reputation. You must have a big water cooler at your office here, Elliot. There's a lot of conversations that go on at that water cooler. That maybe don't go on in Vegas. Yeah, that maybe aren't actually what happened.

Exactly. How do you feel about offer sheets? I mean, there are some managers that think, oh, offer sheets just raise the price for everybody and it's self-defeating. How do you feel about offer sheets as a tactic to build your team? Well, they are that. So they're part of the collective bargaining agreement. It's a way that you can improve your team. You know, just for me personally, I know how hard it is to be a general manager in the

National Hockey League. It would take a pretty unique set of circumstances for me to offer sheet one of my colleagues. That's just how I feel. Hopefully the other 31 feel the same, but that's how I feel. And yet where I think there's a little more traction is when you look at the makeup of hockey operations departments across the NHL, if you're someone looking at it just in an abstract, why aren't we offer sheeting this player?

Because we could do this and we can make our team better. And yet there's a lot more that goes into it than that. You know, certainly retaliation would be one concern. You know, I think if you've offer sheeted someone, you are clearly fair game for everyone

else, not just that team, in my opinion, at least. So you weren't surprised at the Montreal, Carolina dynamics that have? Well, I can't speak to what goes on between other teams, but yeah, those are always considerations. You go to your Hockey TV page and the first city that comes up is North Battleford, Saskatchewan.

My family lived in North Battleford for a long time. My father, my uncle, my aunt, one of them stayed there and my grandparents, obviously. And then my couple of them came out to central Canada. So I've been there, but I don't know it, even though it's a huge part of my family history. What do you think of when I say North Battleford? Well, not the Freedmen's. So I'm from Saskatchewan. I grew up on a farm and our farming community was in a small town called Plenty, Saskatchewan,

which would be west of Saskatoon in an area that's sort of between Roastown and Kindersley, which are bigger, uh, bigger cities. So I played, uh, junior hockey, uh, in Prince Albert when they were still, uh, junior A. Then I played two years with, uh, Brandon Wheat Kings in the Western Hockey League. From there, I went to the University of Michigan where, uh, I played for four years. So when I was done school, uh, my, uh, intentions were to go home and farm. I was married by this time. We had our first daughter, Chelsea, shortly after, and that was what my lot in life was going to be, which I was excited to do because I loved farming. And then when I got home to Plenty,

I had an opportunity to play and coach in a senior league, which was called the Wild Goose Hockey League at that time, which was a really good level of hockey. So after two years there, the coaching job opened up in North Battleford. And that's when I moved to North Battleford. Now it was interesting because North Battleford, where our family always went to the lake in the summer times was Jackfish Lake, which was Cotian, which is where our family's cottage was. So, you know, we had been, spent lots of time in Battleford over the years just for, for different, different things.

So when I went to Battleford, it was never because I was getting into the hockey business. I was doing that because I could do it and then move back to the farm in the spring and continue to farm. So I've, I spent a lot of time in Battleford just as a kid growing up playing hockey against them. My dad played senior hockey in Saskatchewan, uh, in Rosetown for years.

Rosetown Battleford was a big rivalry and, uh, in senior hockey, uh, during that time. So, uh, I knew Battleford, uh, real well. And, uh, real well and we really enjoyed our time there. When did it come clear to you that there was a chance that hockey was going to be your life instead of life on the farm, which you were excited to do?

So I worked two years in the Saskatchewan Junior Hockey League. It's interesting, the guy that followed me at North Battleford was Todd McClellan. So we've always kind of been kind of linked. So I went to Brandon, I became the general manager in Brandon when I was 28 years old. And I still felt at that time that I would

end up back on the farm. That was what, that was what we intended to do. And three years later when I was 31, so in those three years, my first year, we finished tied for the final playoff spot and lost out in a play-in game. And we had an old team. So I played in Brandon in the seventies when they had absolutely unbelievably good teams. Then I went away to school and on the farm, Saskatchewan junior, the team really struggled for a period of years. They had a stretch there where it was like the objective was to make the final playoff spot with an old team.

And when I got there my first year, we tied for the final playoff spot with an old team. And I made the decision then that we needed to rip the heart out of the beast and start over. So my second year, we won 18 games and I thought we had turned the corner. And then my third year, we won 11 games. So a real introduction to junior hockey. So at that time, the gentleman, Bob Cornell, that owned the team, really believed in what I was doing. Really, we had a great relationship, still do to this day.

He sold me a third of the team. So when I was 31 years old, I bought a third of the Wheat Kings, uh, six or seven years later, I bought the rest of the Wheat Kings from him in, uh, in 2000, I became the sole owner of the Wheat Kings. And I guess it was when, uh, when I bought in, uh, to the Wheat Kings, you know, that's

when I knew that we wouldn't be going back, uh, to farm. My wife's from Brandon. Uh, so it kind of worked, uh, on that level as well. By this time we, you know, had our kids. And, uh, that was sort of when I realized that I wouldn't be going back to the farm. That would have been then. Did you sell it? Uh, my parents, uh, rent the farm to three different farmers.

So in the, in the era that we grew up, our farm would be considered a big farm and, uh, by today's standards, isn't that, but, uh, yeah, my mom and dad live just outside of Saskatoon. They rent, uh, the farm to three different farmers and, uh, it kind of keeps them involved. You know, my dad still can get up in the morning and worry if it's going to rain and, uh, those

kinds of things. So, uh, I don't know that we'll ever sell it. We'll just continue to keep it in our family. It's a beautiful thing. Like I think those days I went back out there and kind of learned about life. Yeah. Like I remember, I knew farming life wasn't

for me. They, my grandfather owned a stockyards. They raised pigs in there. And I remember once one of the pigs had a toothache, like, okay, we've got to take the tooth they raised pigs in there. And I remember once one of the pigs had a toothache, like, okay, we've got to take the tooth out. No, no. So no, what they did was they tied the string to

the door and they go and they're holding it down. Like Elliot slammed the door. And I'm like, I don't know if I can do this. I did it for a city guy like me. It was such a great experience. And you learned about the bond between the land and the people of Saskatchewan. But I realized, Jeff, that that was not for me.

Yeah. I, I, I don't know that I can see you doing that. Farmers are really proud people. Yes. And, uh, it's a fabulous way of life. And, uh, you know, for me, uh, that's what I expected to do. I wanted to get my degree and everything else,

which, uh, I was able to do. Uh, and yet, you know, obviously I've, uh, loved my time in hockey. It and everything else, which I was able to do. And yet, you know, obviously I've loved my time in hockey. It's, it's been great as well. Farms feed families, farms feed families.

Speaking of families, I wanted to ask you about your late brother, Brad was one of my favorite hockey players. I want to ask you about Brad, the hockey player, because the stories of playing 60 minutes, playing entire games are legendary. I still think that that Philadelphia Flyers blue line with your brother and Crossman and Howe and Marsh and JJ Daniel were one of the best we ever saw. Like with all

the respect to Montreal and the big three and Anaheim 2007, one of the best we ever saw like with all the respect to montreal and the big three and anaheim 2007 one of the best blue lines the game has ever seen when you think of your brother the player like we think of you know nick lindstrom joins the nhl who do they put him with your brother when you think of your brother the player what comes to your mind right away um well he was one of my favorite players as well. I guess we've got that in common, Jeff. You know, we grew up in small town Saskatchewan. So, you know, information wasn't of course then what it's like now, but, you know, you kind of knew that Brad McCrimmon was one of the best players in the Northern part of Saskatchewan.

And there was a guy in the Southern part of Saskatchewan named Brian Propp that was pretty good as well. You know, Brad was such a big physically strong guy, he always was. And you know, he played in PA as a 15 and 16 year old with Terry Simpson, then he went three years to Brandon with Dunk McCallum. And he played so much. So, you know, I can't, you know, if we're doing word association, my, my first thing I would say is just the, the conditioning and the stamina of how much he played. And when he turned pro, he turned pro in Boston

and loved his time there. He was three years there. And then I think it was in Philadelphia where his career really took off with, with Mike Keenan. He was paired with Mark Howe. And, you know, they played half the game. You know, they played 30 minutes a night. Ron Hextall was their goalie.

So that sure made playing defense easier because he initiated most breakouts or put it on your stick so you could. And they had great teams in Philadelphia. But I really thought Mike taught Brad P pace, put more pace into his game because, of course, he'd played so much for so many years that you need to play a certain way, right? So I thought Mike really put a lot of pace into Brad's game. Brad really liked Mike and flourished with him.

And then he had an 18-year career. He played over 1, you know, over 1200 games, you know, as blue collar, a team's, uh, team guy, a man's man, uh, as you'd ever find, uh, you know, that would be the player, you know, I knew, or I've found, um, uh, you know, since, uh, his, uh, his passing, his death, you know, different people that I've run into over those years that for me, Chris Pronger is an example. So Brad was Chris Pronger's partner in Hartford, just to the point you're making earlier about Nick Lidstrom, Gary Suter was his partner in Calgary., Chris Pronger has always treated me great. And I assume that's out of respect that he had for Brad, right?

And, you know, so I think, um, you know, proud of that, uh, for Brad, you know, and then, uh, I said to Nate before we went on, Nate said, you're going to ask me about this. And I said, well, when somebody asks me out of 10 times, I'll be fine seven times. And I just don't know when they are, right? I understand. Yeah.

But as a man, like as a dad and a husband, I think he was a great family man. And you can tell the regard I have for him. He had other interests. He loved music. Uh, he loved reading, uh,

politics. I can't imagine what Brad McCrimmon would have done with the political climate of the last, uh, five years. It's maybe a blessing. Uh, but, uh,

no, I think the world of them, we're, you know, a year apart growing up. So do you keep in touch with the family? Yep. Yep. I see, uh, And no, I think the world of them, we're a year apart growing up. Do you keep in touch with the family? Yep.

Yep. I see his daughter, Carlin, his son, Liam, and his widow, Maureen. They're still in Michigan, in Northville, where they were living at the time. When he went over to Russia, that was going to be sort of home base for the family. So that's where they are. So keep in touch with them my kids are you know obviously first cousins with uh with his so they stay in touch as well you know i've always enjoyed talking about brad mccrimmon he was one of my favorite players uh that philadelphia flyers defense that he was such

a huge part of is one of the best blue lines I ever saw. And don't forget, Brad McCrimmon was very influential on the development of a lot of defensemen in the NHL, superstars, all-stars, hall of famers, one of the big common denominators with a lot of these guys. It's Brad McCrimmon. That was really special, the way Kelly spoke about his late brother. Hope you enjoyed that interview. I know Elliot and I really enjoyed conducting it. Again, thanks to Nate Ewell of Vegas for hooking it up.

And thanks for joining us on the podcast once again. A nice midweek treat for you. It was a real treat for us because some of those stories were fantastic and it's nice to talk about Vegas being a successful organization again. Taking us out is a singer and songwriter based in Saskatoon. Maybe Smith has released four records since dropping his debut in 2004.

From his Animals and Architects album, here's Maybe Smith, Within the Woods, on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Enjoy. Walk around with their heads down Staring at their feet And who can really blame them now? I love you so much