32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Leafs Get A Lyub Job

Episode Date: February 21, 2022

Moves are being made! Jeff and Elliotte fire things up with a trade that saw Toronto send Nick Ritchie to Arizona with a conditional second-round pick for Ryan Dzingel and Ilya Lyubushkin (00:20). The guys break the deal down from both sides and wonder if the Maple Leafs have more moves in the works. They also discuss Montreal’s mini win streak (9:00) and their interest in Marie-Philip Poulin (32:30), Edmonton making a push under Jay Woodcroft (15:20), Eichel starting to find his touch (18:00), the Blackhawks GM search (20:20), the big news out of the PHF (35:00), and they take a few listener questions to wrap up the podcast (42:30).Jeff and Elliotte say a few words about the late great Emile Francis (39:00). Our thoughts and prayers go out to the friends and family of Emile Francis.Full transcript for the episode can be found here by Medha MonjauryMusic Outro: Busty and the Bass & Cadence Weapon - AirplanesListen to the full track by Busty and the Bass & Cadence Weapon on SpotifyThis podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Audio Credits: KUFX 98.5 FM, Sportsnet, Toronto Marlies and the Vegas Golden Knights Radio Network.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

George Costanza. Yeah, thanks for listening. I'm doing my Elliot Friedman impression, excuse me. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented, as always, by the all-new GMC AT4 lineup. And a subheader to this podcast should always be Elliot. When news breaks, Elliot fixes it. You had this on Saturday, moments before it was announced officially, the trade between the

toronto maple leafs and the arizona coyotes elia labushkin ryan dezingle in exchange for nick ritchie and a conditional draft pick we'll look at this from both sides the toronto side and the arizona side we'll start with the maple leafs how did you see this deal from kyle dubas's point of view well first of all jeff i would just say that someone told me to keep an eye on whether or not Labushkin was going to be playing for Arizona on Saturday night. And when I saw that he was not, immediately the bat signal went up in the air

or the coyote signal or the leaf signal, whichever signal that you prefer, you know, that's going to live forever. I just want you to know that. I'm going to make sure that Amel sends me that and that sound effect is going to live forever i just want you to know that i'm going to make sure that almost sends me that and that sound effect is going to live forever but that was the cue did labushkin dress on saturday night for uh arizona in their game and when he didn't had a good feeling something was up now i think for toronto tor Toronto was looking for D. We all kind of know that. I think they decided that if they were doing a rental,

they weren't going to be trading a first-round pick for it. I don't think. I also don't think that they were doing one of their top prospects for a rental. People are going to ask them for Nyes. Yeah. Nyes looks like he's a real steal for them yes you know they have some other really good prospects too and toronto was just saying look we're not dealing that

labushkin is a good fit for them he's a right hand shot he's not much of an offensive player but he's a pretty good defensive player and he's physical. He's not a guy who's going to wow you with his speed game, but he knows who he is and he fits at the bottom of their D. I think that's a really good pickup for them. As we all know, Nick Ritchie, he wanted to move on. There was no path for him back to the NHL until at least the playoffs, barring injury. They clear his cap room for next year. You know, Arizona liked Richie.

And the other thing, too, is prior to acquiring him, Arizona had only five players under contract for next season. Yeah. You know, last week when I reported that there was some traction on Richie, I didn't know it was the Coyotes, but I probably should have guessed it. It made sense. And, you know, that's why they have to give up a pick later on.

It's either going to be a third rounder in 2023 or a second rounder in 2025. But they didn't have to give up any salary because I understand why Arizona would be a spot for him. They take back Dezingle. We'll see if he clears waivers after the podcast is dropped, but this is about clearing Richie's salary next year, and Labushkin is a player that Toronto can use.

Now, the question becomes, as you mentioned, Labushkin is a right-hand shot, so then what does this mean then of Justin Hall and Timothy Liljegren? I think that's one of the sidebar questions coming out of all of this any idea well if you look at it right now toronto has a situation on d where sandin's getting his chance to play second pair lilligren's also had a chance to move up a little bit in the lineup i think they're trying to see exactly what they've got here they still have another month before the deadline to see if they want to do anything else defensively.

I still think it's a possibility. I wouldn't want to rank it on a scale of 1 to 10, but I still think there's a possibility that Hall moves or Dermott moves. I don't think Toronto's given up yet on the possibility of that, but I think they wanted to strengthen their D and they saw Lubushkin as a relatively cost-effective, underrated kind of player. They don't have guys like him, really.

His skill set is a bit different than they've got and the kind of skill set they want. One of the guys I think Toronto looked at over the last month was Klingberg. I think he was someone they considered, but they didn't do it. Number one, I think the acquisition cost might have been higher.

And number two, I think also that they kind of look at it and say, we've got guys like him. He's a good player who I think they like, but they've got guys like him. Lubushkin is something that they really didn't have. I don't necessarily think that Dubas has finished tinkering with his defense. It might end up that nothing happens and this is what they've got, but I don't think it's

impossible that he continues to tinker with it specifically with Hall. Okay. Let's have a look at this then from the Arizona Coyotes' point of view. As you mentioned, a handful of players under contract going into next season, but what's desirable from their point of view, picking up Nick Ritchie and letting go of Labushkin and Dezingle?

Why does this work for them? You know, Dezingle wasn't really working out there. They could always re-sign Labushkin next year. Yep. I think Ritchie makes sense for them i've heard that the team liked richie as a player you know when i was first told about them trying to move richie and there was traction on it i wasn't sure i really believed it and someone said to me you know toronto wasn't the only team that liked richie last summer there were other teams

that liked him and clearly Arizona was another of them. But I think it comes back to what we just talked about. You know, Arizona, they're going to make some changes. They're going to need to fill out their roster. And Nick Richie, I mean, did you see his media availability last week? Like it was really dreary. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Yeah. It's, it's, it's hockey. So it's, it is what it is. And it's, it's hockey, so it is what it is and it's nice just to get out and play. It was really dreary and down. Get me out of here. I'm just down here playing and we'll see how it plays out.

Why do you think it hasn't worked out as well as you would have hoped in Toronto so far? Yeah, I think there's a number of things. Probably don't have enough time to get into that. Here he knows he's going to play. He's going to play in Arizona. And he's going to play next year in Arizona because they don't have really a huge roster yet.

So, you know, he wants to play. He made it very clear. He wants to be in the NHL. He's going to be in the NHL. He's not going to be on the outside looking in. I don't think it's as if Toronto didn't give Nick Ritchie a chance. They did give Nick Ritchie a chance. Put him on the first line.

It didn't work out. Okay. And he, he was done here until the playoffs unless somebody got hurt that gave him enough room to be activated. But basically, he was their 13th, 14th, 15th forward at best, whatever number you want to give him. There, he's going to play. Jeff, we've kind of talked about this.

Is Arizona going to have trouble getting players to play there next year if they're in that Arizona State arena? Well, Nick Ritchie, that's not going to be a problem. He's going to be there and he's going to be fine with it. And I think that's another win for them too. One side note on the Toronto point of view of this trade is the freeing up of cap space next season. And I don't know about you, but I can't help but marrying this move to the next Jack Campbell contract. Because not only now do the Maple Leafs rid themselves of Nick Ritchie's salary for next season, but also Phil Kessel comes off the books at $1.2 million as well.

That gets you a little bit warmer to re-signing Jack Campbell. That's part of what it looks like to me. The savings here go right to the goalie offer. Agree, disagree. I think that makes a lot of sense, Jeff. As you know, them and a number of other teams like them are going to need every penny. And so everything that comes off the cap

is going to go towards something that they absolutely need to fill. And goalie makes perfect sense. So is this a beginning then? You think of a bunch of moves here from Arizona trade deadline is approaching. We've talked plenty about Jacob Chikrin this

year. We've talked plenty about Phil Castle, the impending UFAs that the Arizona Coyotes have. Is this the beginning now? Johan Larson. Johan Larson. You've written about him. I know you like him.

I do like him. Even though he won't be healthy for the trade deadline, he should be healthy for the playoffs. Is this the beginning of it? I think so. The one timeline I just can't figure out yet is Chikrin. I do think they want to trade him. I just don't think they've gotten to a point yet

where they feel anyone stepped up to the place they want anyone to go. Okay. From the Toronto Maple Leafs to Arizona Coyotes, then let's transition to the Montreal Canadians. And I want to get to the Marie-Philippe Poulin stuff that we discussed on Saturday on Hockey Night, but don't look now, but the Montreal Canadians have just won two games in a row. And the last time we spoke on this podcast, we talked about the effect that Martin St. Louis was having on Cole Caulfield. Should we also throw Jeff Petrie into that conversation as well? Is it just me or does he look like the old Jeff Petrie all of a sudden now under Martin St. Louis?

Like the Habs look way different. Like it was like five minutes ago, they're getting clubbed 8-2 by Minnesota, 7-2 by Edmonton, and 6-3 by Columbus. Now, all of a sudden, you know, they're holding teams like, you know, the Islanders and the Blues and Columbus to two goals a game. I don't know what this is. You know, the old financial term is dead cat bounce. But there's something happening with Montreal right now. But there's something happening with Montreal right now. The team is tightening up defensively,

and some players are excelling offensively at the same time. Cole Caulfield and Jeff Petrie as well. As they say in French, qu'est-ce qui se passe? What's going on here, Elliot? I didn't know you were bilingual. That's excellent. Je peux parler un peu, mais pas beaucoup. Les Québécois parlent trop vite pour moi. C'est vrai ça.

Their dead cat bounce came a little bit later too, because at the beginning, Boudreaux came right away, and Jay Woodcroft came right away. San Luis took a couple of games. I think there's a couple of things here. First of all, I just don't think you can play that bad for that long under a guy like San Luis.

I just don't think he's going to stand for it, especially since he's new. He's really not going to stand for it, and he has some power. The other thing, too, is it's in Jeff Petrie's best interest to get going here, and I would bet that someone told him that. I would bet he had a come-to-Jesus moment with someone. I don't know if it was San Luis or his own agents who said to him, Jeff, you know, if you want out of here and he does, you have to start playing a lot better because he still has term on his contract and it's a big number at six to five. And I would say it's more likely to happen in the summer than the deadline, although not impossible, but it's not going to

happen if, you know, he's hurting his own trade value by going through the motions and i guarantee to someone said to him if you really want to go now you got to play great and he's smart enough to know that that's the case i was also very happy by the way jeff for andrew hammond who won that game in new york yeah just one of the all-time that game in New York. Just one of the all-time great stories. You know, the Hamburglar, you know, he's, that's a guy who loves hockey. Like he's still going.

He is still going. And he got back into the NHL and he won. And I was really happy to see it. And as you tweeted out, you love the playing with your old colors in your new uniform. So true. This is going in a totally different direction i don't know if i ever told this story before but what's up someone told me that and i was reminded of it today when hammond was having his unbelievable run in ottawa that there was a game where in warm-up he was so tired he couldn't stop a shot like Ottawa scored every shot in the pregame warm-up

the one right before puck drop and the story was told that a couple of the leaders on the Senators team went to I can't remember who was coaching the team at the time but they went to the coach and they said you know he can't play tonight he's exhausted he can't stop a puck we're going to get killed and I guess the coaches and I think Pierre Dorian was the GM at the time, I guess they just said, like, we have no other option. He's got to play. So you guys are going to have to find a way. The story goes that he was unbelievable in that game,

and he made like a billion ridiculous saves, and they won again. And at the end of the game, apparently they went to these players, and players and they said yeah i guess he was too tired to stop a puck and the players players were laughing that they'd never seen anything they'd never seen a goalie have such a bad warm-up before and have an unbelievable performance i was really happy for andrew you know who i used to love watching warm-up just because he wouldn't even move other than just to wave his arms and more of a symbolic gesture than anything else just to say like yeah i'm fine just get me out of warm up here just let me play the greg millen you remember watching greg millen warm up he would like so many times i'd watch him just sort of stand there pucks would come in he just sort of

wave his arms back and forth wouldn't move his feet feet, just like, I'm fine for the game. I don't need this. I guess this is the little dance we have to go through before the game, but just get me out of here. I just want to get to the game. I'm a competitor. That sounds like Jay Bomeester and Alex Petrangelo. Why are you skating today? Why are you skating today? He said, I love watching Millen warm up, get to the rink

early, to watch him stand there and just wave his arms at pucks that would go past me. He's like, I don't care. I just want to, just want to get to the game. I had a friend who was a really good soccer player and he would ask me in high school to sometimes play goal for him. We'd go to a park and they had one of those soccer football goal uprights there. So he just said like,

would you play goal for me? And I would periodically, but there was one day I was feeling particularly lazy. He had a high shot, like a really, like he just used to loft it over me if I came out to challenge him. Yeah. And I said, if you do that today, I'm not jumping. Cause I just don't feel like being embarrassed like that today.

So he would do it and I wouldn't jump and he would get so angry at me. That only happened once, but then he blast, he had a hard shot too. He got so mad. He blasted one off my chest. I felt like I was hit with a shotgun. That guy was a good soccer player. That reminds me of a story that I saw at the draft once where I saw one general manager holding cigarettes above another general manager, making him jump up to grab them because he had telephoned from one table

to the other table asking if they had smokes. I'm trying to think of who a short GM would be and a tall GM would be. Honestly, one of the funniest things ever seen, period. Now everyone's going to scramble to try to figure out who that is. You mentioned Jay Woodcroft a couple of seconds ago. Now, as we record this podcast.

Yeah, they're having a rough night. Things are not going very well for the Edmonton Oilers. It is four to one at the time of this recording right now, the 9.13 PM Eastern on Sunday. Kevin Fiala has a pair. Evander Kane has answered for the Edmonton Oilers and Mike Smith hasn't had the best of

all possible nights. He's already received the hook, but leading up to this oneon Oilers, and Mike Smith hasn't had the best of all possible nights. He's already received the hook. But leading up to this one, Oilers were perfect under Jay Woodcroft, and they had won games against the Islanders, the Sharks, the Kings, the Ducks, and the Jets. But there's a stretch now for the Edmonton Oilers where it's like, okay, let's see what they're really made of here.

Tonight is Minnesota, and then it's Tampa, okay, let's see what they're really made of here. Tonight is Minnesota, and then it's Tampa, Florida, Carolina next Sunday. This is the tough one. Let's really see what we have under the hood here. And look what those teams did to Calgary two months ago. Yeah. So, look, Edmonton's played a lot better. We've talked about it. You've got to get saves.

So, we'll see if they get saves. You know, the one thing I just wanted to mention was, so when Jay Woodcroft got hired, Ken Holland said, we'll take this through the end of the year and then we'll see where we are. Jay Woodcroft doesn't have a contract for next year. Anywhere.

So he's not just auditioning for the Oilers. You know, someone brought it to my mind. He's auditioning for everybody. Now I've got to think if he continues anywhere near where he's at now, you know, Edmonton's going to make sure he doesn't go anywhere else. Right. But someone did point that out to me that his contract's up. tracks up. So I'm really curious to see, you know, at what point Edmonton decides to, you know, make

a decision on this, because if they continue going the way they're going, there's certainly going to be other interest. I also wanted to shout out tonight. We should mention that if you have not been watching what's been going on with the Oilers lately on their regional broadcast, you haven't been seeing Gene Principe's hair.

Oh, the feathers. Gene has let his hair go long. And tonight during the game, Sunday night, he's getting it cut for the Zebra Center, which according to its mission statement, improves the lives of children impacted by abuse. So great job, Gene. Yeah.

And excellent, excellent work there in creating some financial support and awareness. And great feathers along the way. Oh my goodness. Gene has the biggest head of hair in the industry and the biggest heart in the industry as well. Gene, well done. And even though this game is ongoing as we record this podcast, the Vegas Golden Knights are beating the San Jose Sharks 3-0. is ongoing as we record this podcast.

The Vegas Golden Knights are beating the San Jose Sharks 3-0. And in this game, the second goal of the game after Keegan Colasar gave the Vegas Golden Knights a 1-0 lead, Jack Eichel has scored his first goal as a member of the Vegas Golden Knights. Congratulations, and we welcomed him back last week. point. Eichel, nice move on the left side. Meyer stays with him. Eichel puts in the brakes. Throws in front of the net by himself

was Stevenson. Couldn't get it, but he gets it back to Eichel, who scores! Chandler Stevenson could have had a ham sandwich and a Pepsi in front of the net. He was so wide open, couldn't put the puck in. He went behind the goal and backhanded in front, and then Jack Eichel

picks up his first goal in a Vegas uniform. It is 2-0 Golden Knights. And you now have an answer to the question you asked on the last podcast. Yes, I would like to thank Dan Duva, the great radio voice of the Vegas Golden Knights. At that face-off between Colorado and Vegas that night, the opening draw was McKinnon-Eichel, and they were talking. And I was wondering what exactly was being said. And Dan did a pregame interview from Friday night, Eichel's second game, and he asked Eichel exactly what was going on. Looked like he said something.

What did he say? Yeah, he just said it was good to see you back out here. And I know Nate pretty well. So, you know, we spent some time together training this summer. And, yeah, I mean, I was just seeing how he was doing. I know he took a hit the last week, a couple weeks ago, and he was kind of dealing with some stuff himself. So just a quick little conversation before the face-off.

How was the first shift for you? So it's nothing earth-shattering, and I'm betting it was a bit more direct than maybe colorful than Eichel was saying in the interview with Dan, but I really appreciate him asking the question so we could hear the answer because I was curious just watching them. You knew something was going, it was some kind of greeting and I was just curious about it. Uh, we should mention as well, Eichel has an assist to go along with that goal, his

second, and who knows by the time this game is over, uh, he may have more, but, uh, good to see Jack Eichel is certainly back and certainly producing. Because as we've mentioned plenty of times on the podcast, this guy's good. Let's not let that slip. Let's talk about the Hawks here quickly. Is there anything new to report on the Chicago Blackhawks and their GM search? Do we have a timeline, a target date, any new names, anything, Elliot? A few things. First of all, we've kind of joked about the unique and eclectic list of characters, the

wide spectrum of people that you're wondering how they could end up on the same list. And I wondered, you know, who was responsible for selecting all of these different choices? And I got an answer on that. I heard that it was a combination of Danny Wertz, of Jamie Faulkner, and of Mike Ford from Sportsology. They were putting together all the candidates. The NHL had some input here in saying, you know, you should interview this person or this person. I don't think the committee was involved in the selection of candidates, but they were kind of brought in to, I don't know if the right word is to just, you know, give their opinions or kind of offer some feedback.

But I don't think they were involved in selecting any of the choices. And that makes sense to me because it sounds to me like there are some, I don't know if I want to say competing agendas, but different ideas. You know, I've said from the beginning, I don't think I'm the only one. You know, I think Danny Wirtz favored the incumbent Kyle Davidson. I think Danny Wertz favored the incumbent Kyle Davidson. I think Jamie Faulkner and Mike Ford had some other unique candidates they wanted to bring in different ones. So as far as we know, there were seven people interviewed.

Someone said to me there might be eight, but we know of seven. Kyle Davidson, the incumbent, Peter Shirelli, Scott Mellenby, and Matthew Darsh from the NHL, Eric Tulsky also from the NHL, Jeff Greenberg from the Cubs, and Teresa Resch from the Raptors. And apparently they were all ranked is what I heard. I don't know how many people were on each individual interview. I think there were three or four, but apparently they were all ranked. And by figuring out who kind of moves on to the second round, we're going to figure out how everybody here was ranked.

I have to say that I don't know how to handicap it right now. You know, we talked on Friday about Teresa Rash and would she really leave the Raptors for this if she was the preferred candidate? And I could always be proven wrong, but some people were telling me they didn't think she would. We'll find out. I mean, I haven't spoken to her, and I don't want to put words in her mouth.

I was kind of told by a few people that they would be surprised that she would want to take this job at this time. I heard Greenberg from the Cubs interviewed really well. And then I think it comes down to how they felt about the other candidates. The one that's really interesting to me is Tulsky because I think there's a growing sense here that he will be a general manager in the league someday. Like we know a lot about all these other candidates. Some of them like Shirely and Mellenby have been around for a while. They know Davidson.

Darsh has been in the NHL for a couple of years. I think we kind of have a good handle on all of those candidates. The one interesting thing to me about Tulsky is that someone who knows him from another team said that the next phase in his evolution is going to be just having more responsibility in terms of interacting with other teams. I think in Carolina right now, Don Waddell does a lot of that. And this person said to me, that's what he thinks that Tulsky's next thing is. Like he said, Tulsky may get this job. He may not. But he said that once he thinks that Tulsky starts doing that a lot more for Carolina,

then it's only a matter of time. That's what this person told me. He said that that's where he's going there. I will say this. I had a lot of conversations with some people around the rush story that we had and the grain story that was done. I had a lot of people asking me about that. Like, what do you really think here? What do you think this is about? I think there's a lot of people in the league right now wondering where all of this is going. Glenn Healy once told me, like Healy was one of the best people I ever dealt with in terms of just advising me on my career because he speaks very bluntly and honestly. Like there's no line

with Healy. Whether he tells you something nicely or he doesn't tell you something nicely, you're going to hear the truth and it's usually going to be good for you. And he always told me that you have to look at your seat as I did as a goalie. He said, I was one of, initially there were 42 goalies because he started when there were 21 teams, but eventually he was there when he was there when there were, you know, 60 goalies. And he said, there's only 60 spots and somebody wants your spot and everybody's going to try to take your spot away from you. And he said, someday I knew that someone was going to beat me out for my spot. And he said, Elliot, someday someone's going to beat you out for your spot. But in the interim, you're going to try to fend off a lot of people who are trying to take it from you.

You know, when you're a GM, people always want your job, but you've kind of thought there were, I don't know if a limited pool of candidates, but a certain pool of candidates was coming for these jobs. Now what the Blackhawks are doing is they are opening the door to an even larger pool of candidates that are coming for these jobs. And some people will say that's a good thing. And some people will say that's a bad thing, but it's a true thing. A lot of people in the sport are saying, where are we going for this? Is this real? Is this for show? Can a person who's not, quote unquote, a hockey person really be a GM in the NHL?

To me, it reminds me of Pinball Clemens in some way, retiring and becoming the GM of the Argos. They surrounded him with great coaches, but Pinball knew football and is a really smart guy. This has opened a lot of people's eyes to a lot of things. I think we're really wondering here where we're going. But the other thing that I heard about this is that it's very clear that the Blackhawks are a scarred organization by what happened. And there's a lot of healing that needs to be done there.

And I think the organization knows it. I think the organization is really hurting. And also what happened with Rocky Wurtz a couple of weeks ago, that's one thing that's been made kind of clear to me that the world moves on. Our attention spans are so fast that something's a big story for 15 minutes, and then we kind of move on to the next thing. That's what social media has kind of done to a lot of our brains. But the Blackhawks aren't like that, and they shouldn't be really. But the Blackhawks aren't like that, and they shouldn't be really, but it's a hurting organization that knows that they've got a lot to do to fix internally.

And that's why I think that they have found it so important to go out there. I don't know what the answer is going to be here, but it's opened up a lot of thought about where we're going so does all that make sense it doesn't i want to add one thing to it here and i think the most intriguing person here is eric tolsky because he comes from a couple of different paths and this speaks to the idea that you talked about at the beginning of this conversation, which is who's making the decision here. Danny Wertz has his own frame of reference. Jamie Faulkner has her own frame of reference. Mike Ford, another one altogether. But Eric Tolsky comes from the world of nanotechnology. Before hockey analytics, it was nanotechnology and business, industry. And then he dovetailed that into his work in analytics and dovetailed that into a career in the National Hockey League.

But he can speak to a lot of different people in a lot of different ways. He can talk industry with business people. He can talk hockey and analytics and analyze the game with hockey people as well. To me, I look at Tulsky and I say, he can have a conversation with anybody that's interviewing him in that room, which probably raises a lot of eyebrows for everybody in that room at that time. And it makes me wonder who has the ultimate decision-making powers here. Like who has the final say? If it's Jamie Faulkner, I might be leaning towards Eric Tolsky. If it's Danny Wertz, I might be leaning towards someone

else. But to me, he's the most interesting person out of all of it, just because of the nature of the conversations he can have with all those people in that room. And I know he's not the most household name. And I know he's someone that's always sort of existed in the shadows in the NHL. And people that are deep in the industry really know Eric Tolsky and respect his work and always have. But to me, he's the most intriguing guy just because of what he brings to the table and his ability to communicate with a lot of different people.

Does that make sense to you? It absolutely does. You know, I had someone tell me that they really thought that Mellenby was the best candidate too. And I mentioned all my thoughts about Tulsky even more. And I do think he's going to be a GM someday for a lot of those reasons you just mentioned. You know, I had someone who spoke to me very passionately on behalf of Mellenby because they think he's a guy who's been around a long time.

He played for 20 years. Who survives for 20 years in the NHL? He had a lot of players, young and old, who swore by him. He worked as an executive for a long time. If you believe in working your way up and doing every job to get to this point, he's done it. The other thing too is Mellon B and I have one particular connection. He's got a boy, Carter, who's on the spectrum. And I just know how Scott and his wife have dedicated themselves to Carter. I think that kind of thing is very important because it teaches you a lot of different

emotions and behaviors that you need to do to be a good and empathetic executive. I just don't know where this is all going to go. We have seen a couple of searches here. Vancouver, we started with Patrick Alvin. We ended with Patrick Alvin. Montreal, we started with Kent Hughes. We ended with Kent Hughes. Chicago, we started, I think, with Kyle Davidson. I'm not as certain where this is going to end. But I think we will get some clarity this week. Okay, welcome back to the podcast um saturday elliot we talked about marie philippe poulin her future and the montreal canadians now thankfully if you're a canadian hockey fan marie philippe poulin wants to keep playing i believe based on nothing other than how i feel

that she wants to go through one more olympic cycle she wants to go through one more Olympic cycle. She wants to compete again one more time at the Olympics. I would back you on that, Jeff. I've heard that that's her choice. She wants to play one more cycle. But as we talked about on Saturday as well, that hasn't stopped teams like the Montreal Canadians from reaching out. And sometime before the Olympics, well before the Olympics, the Montreal Canadiens did reach out to her representatives at Momentum Hockey just to see, you know, where she's at, what she wants to do, where her head is at post-Olympics. And the Montreal Canadiens, as we now know it, are very interested in having a conversation with Marie-Philippe Poulin with the caveat being when she is ready.

It sounds like, Elliot, whenever she's ready, the Montreal Canadiens are ready. I think that's a very fair way to do it. And if you're the Montreal Canadiens, that's smart. When you're taking a look at the relationships here, the marriages between the female players and NHL teams, is there one that needs to happen more or has to happen more than Mary-Philippe Poulin, the Montreal Canadiens? To me, that's such a no-brainer that has to occur. The Canadians, when her time is right, the Montreal Canadiens should say,

hey, you're not going anywhere else. We're not even letting you look at any other organization. You're coming here. And it sounds to me like the Canadians have pretty much privately made that clear. And they're being smart about it. They're saying, when it's your time, we'll talk about it. But that's what it sounds like to me, that when eventually she decides to make her decision that she wants to work for a team, the Canadians are going to do everything they can to bring her there. This is going to be one of the most unique post-Olympic periods for a lot of these players. I don't know if they've ever had more options than they're going to have now, whether it's working for a team, whether it's going into broadcasting.

You had a story on Saturday night about the Premier Hockey Federation's commissioner, Tyler Timinia, is resigning. And I think we all believe there's going to be more of a path for this. I don't know if it's ever been a more interesting or fascinating time for a lot of these players. I think they're going to have more options

than basically have ever been available to them, which is a good thing. One of the things that I wonder about too, and the other thing that I reported on Saturday too, was the PWHPA is, you know, continuing conversations with various NHL teams to see if they can figure out a way to work more with them on a consistent basis. Showcase coming up in Washington, the Capitals are all over this. We've seen associations before between the PWHPA and the St. Louis Blues, the Chicago Blackhawks, the New York Rangers, the Toronto Maple Leafs, etc. One of the things that I wonder about here, and this just may go back to, you know, when I first started, you know, watching hockey as a kid, you know, little did I

know that, you know, there was in, in the middle of this war between the NHL and the WHA and, you know, the WHA was, you know, actively raiding players from the NHL, Bobby Hall being the most famous one lured away from Chicago to play in Winnipeg. I wonder if that happens here. You know, the PHF, the Premier Hockey Federation, just pumped $25 million and a benefits package and a doubling of their salary cap into their ecosystem. And I wonder if we start to see, not unlike what the WHA did in the 70s, that organization trying to raid players just by waiving money.

I'm curious about that. I think there's a number of intriguing scenarios that are going to play themselves out here the next weeks and months to come, Elliot. It's a fascinating time, I think, to follow women's hockey. By the way, Jeff. Yes. I had some people ask me, since you broke this story, what happened with Tyler Taminia? Come on, like spill the beans. Don't hide out on this podcast.

I will. It pays you so well. That makes me, like we get paid for this? You get paid for this, Elliot? I will tell you everything that I know. I reached out to Tyler Taminia on Saturday morning and she'd indicated that she spoke to the board back in January and told them that she would be stepping down. She would not be seeking renewal of her contract, effectively resigning her position at the end of playoffs. The first question I asked her is why?

And she said, she's not prepared to talk about that right now. And I said, where are you going? And she wasn't prepared to talk about that right now. And I said, where are you going? And she wasn't prepared to talk about that either. So I think one day we'll get the answer, but I think it's probably going to be sometime after the, uh, the PHF concludes their playoffs, but I am not hiding out on this one. I don't know. She didn't tell me. Um, and I think she'll probably wait until she's ready to talk about it.

I don't know. I really don't know. and I think she'll probably wait until she's ready to talk about it. I don't know. I really don't know. So, Jeff, I understand that Tyler Tamini is going to want to talk about this on her own schedule and we're not going to pry this out of her, but I'm thinking of George Costanza and Seinfeld when Jerry says he slept with Elaine and says he doesn't feel like details and George Costanza says, you're not in the mood. Well, you better get in the mood because I want some details.

Well, sorry, I have no details to share on this one. Like, really, I don't. I know as much as you and Amal know about the reasons behind this. All right. Well, it's going to be interesting because I will know, I will say this, the, the world of these leagues, the women's leagues, it's never boring. And especially leagues that are all going, we

talked about this a couple of podcasts ago, going through growing pains. This is what these leagues are going through. The PWHPA is going through it. The PHF is going through it right now. If there's ever one entity, I'm sure that that league will go through their same growing pains as well. It's just where the game is at right now, Frej.

It ain't perfect. But what is? You and me. This podcast. Ammo. That's it. Nothing else. Just us.

I thought I was incorrect once, but I was wrong. So we'll just move along. Elliot, before we get to some emails and some phone calls here, hockey lost a legend. Hockey lost a giant. And I don't know if you ever had a chance to talk to Emil Francis, but one of the kindest, nicest people that I've ever had a chance to talk to, and I think I talked to him four or five different times,

twice off the air and three separate interviews. Emil Francis passes away at the age of 95. We can think of him as a goaltender and we can look at gloves on goaltenders hands and say, thanks, Kat, because that was him with the modified first baseman's glove that introduced that to the NHL. We can think of him as a coach. We can think of him as a coach we can think of him as a general manager that's kind of how i think of emile francis as a general manager of the new york rangers during a time where as you've mentioned before they should have won a stanley cup and i think one of the great lost rivalries to time has been that rangers bruins rivalry, which was so great and so nasty, but so skilled and so much fun.

This is like late sixties, early seventies, a hall of famer. You know, he oversaw the, uh, the gag line, the goal of game line with, uh, Rattel, Gilbert and Hatfield also went on to manage the St. Louis blues and the Hartford whalers as well. You ever thought or two on the cat, Emil Francis? Well, someone said to me that one of the things that emile francis should be famous for is that he once launched an incredibly verbally abusive tirade at harold ballard and this person told me that everybody wishes they swore at harold

ballard like emile Emil Francis did this one time and it was around the end of the WHA and uh the battle that was going on in the NHL between whether or not to absorb the teams or end the battle and things like that Ballard was one of the people who wanted the WHA just to bleed to death and France and Francis was one of those who said let's just end it and bring the teams in. And they were on opposite sides. And Ballard made some crack to Francis. And apparently Francis just destroyed him verbally. Like said everything to Harold Ballard that you would ever want to say to Harold Ballard.

And this person told me that Emil Francis won at life because he got to do that when a lot of other people would have liked to but couldn't. He was such a fascinating guy. And, uh, you know, even now, if you haven't had a chance to interview him, the last interview that I did with Emil Francis, the one thing I remember, um, specifically because we talked a lot about Terry Sawchuck, the late Terry Sawchuck, and he brought up a point that I'd never thought about until that moment. But, you know, Emil told me he was the last person to see Terry Sawchuck alive. He was the last person to visit Terry Sawchuck before he passed away in hospital. He was such an interesting guy, such wonderful stories, and was such a huge part of the game for so many years.

Listen, thoughts and condolences from all of us here to the Francis family. Okay, Elliot, wrap up the podcast here with some emails. Thanks for emailing in. 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca. Calls as well. Thought line always open. 1-833-311-3232. We start in Oak Harbor. Zach submits this one.

What is a conditional pick? I keep seeing this discussed regarding the Toffoli trade and what Vancouver may do. Sports people seem to think it's great. To me, it looks like you're just forced to wait for potential help. How is this a good thing? For example, the trade we talked about at the top of the podcast, Toronto, Arizona, Arizona gets a choice of which pick it wants to use.

So the conditional pick is, do you want to choose this pick or that pick? So that's what it is. Now, there was something that was changed a couple of years ago. It used to be like, for example, there were situations a couple of years ago. This was changed two years ago. Let's just say, for argument's sake, Jeff, you were traded to Tampa Bay for a first-round draft pick. I could see why they'd want me. Yeah, I understand.

Yes. I mean, I know this is totally far-fetched, and they're much smarter than that. Yep. Smart organization. But there could be something added to the trade where if you re-signed in Tampa, Tampa would own the trading team another pick. Those were taken out. The Players Association argued against those.

They said a team should not lose another pick for a player making a free agent choice. So those no longer are allowed. But the conditional picks are things like, for example, Edmonton and Duncan Keith. If Edmonton goes so far, I believe it's the Stanley Cup final, and Keith plays a certain amount, the third round pick becomes the second. All that stuff is legal. I remember a couple of years ago, there was a trade that Calgary made with Dallas. It was Chris Russell.

And if Dallas went to the third round of the playoffs, Calgary got another pick out of it. And I remember going into that great game seven, Calgary fans, Dallas was playing St. Louis. Calgary fans were cheering for Dallas because they wanted another first round pick. And they lost lost so they didn't get it but those kinds of things happen all the time if two sides are willing to agree

you can have conditions on these draft picks but one thing you can't do anymore is have a condition based on a player re-signing with the team he's trading to because the players association didn't like that and blocked it larry in finland first of all congratulations i assume that's lari that is lari correct yes congrats on the gold medal congrats excellent and the celebration looked um not safe for work and a lot of fun at the same time those are the best celebrations greetings from finland what kind of contract do you think Laine is going to sign? It seems like Columbus has to either trade him or sign him long-term or else he might just take his qualifying offer and become a UFA at just 24. What's the update with Patrick Laine?

Larry from Finland would like to know. I think he's right. Jeff, I think we talked about this on one of your shows last week about Columbus is going to have to make a decision here. Like Patrick Laine, he's different than most people. And I don't say that as a negative. I don't know how many players would have just taken their qualifying offer this year. Like he did, you know, a lot of players wouldn't do that, but he did it. And I think you have to be prepared for the possibility. I'm not saying that it's going to happen, but I've heard people say that based on that, Patrick Lani is not going to be afraid potentially of saying next year, you know what? I'll just take my qualifying offer and go become an unrestricted free agent.

So I do think that it's going to be Columbus's call in the sense of how do they feel about all this? Are they comfortable with that or do they sign him now? Like I had people telling me earlier in the season, they thought Laine was going to eventually be traded because Columbus would just say, you know, we're not ready for this now. It's not the right time for us. This doesn't make sense. And we know he could take his qualifying offer and walk.

Now, I'm not saying that's what's going to happen, but I think there were teams prepared for that eventuality. I just think that line is a different thinker. He's not afraid of going short term. And I think Columbus is aware of that and they've got to decide what they want to do. He's on a heater too. Yeah. He was on a real heater.

Really been playing great. I love this question. Goose from Tel Aviv sends this one in. I have never understood why a penalty is wiped out if a team scores on the delayed penalty. Goose, bless you. Even with the goalie pull, they don't actually have a full advantage. It doesn't make sense to me to say, quote, you did something worth assessing a penalty for, but because the other team scored a goal, you won't be punished for it. Good point. I think the player should still have to serve it.

Looking forward to Jeff loving this idea and Elliot hating it. Yeah. You know, I'm becoming more of a, like five years ago, I would have hated that and thought it was stupid, but in my old age, I'm beginning to think that we just need to promote as much offense as possible. And if they change the rule, I wouldn't have a problem with it. It does work philosophically too. Yeah.

I never understood why that should negate the penalty. You've still committed the foul. The fact that they scored and you had no ability to take possession of the puck is irrelevant to me, really. So great one, Goose. If you look at all these other leagues, the NFL has tipped the scales for offense. The NBA has tipped the scales for offense. Major League Baseball, I think pitching is too dominant.

They're doing everything they can to take away offense because the specialized pitching, the shift, and they recognize they've got a problem there. The NHL wants a tough league, which the old school in me likes, but I do think that we have to start to tip it towards offense again. I think that's what people want.

So things that I might have hated a few years ago, I don't hate them as much as I used to. Does that mean you like them or you just don't hate them as much? You just turn the temperature down a little bit or you're actually enjoying it? I think we have to tip the scales to offense. Offense sells. Yeah. Like, especially with this generation, offense sells.

Like, if you were to say to me, we could have a rule where you get called for a penalty and they score, you still get the penalty. Yeah. I'm probably fine with that. So am I. Curtis and Edmonton. We'll end with this one. Another podcast I listened to made mention of changes in hockey culture and

spoke about the solo rookie skate at pregame being a punishment. I personally never saw it like that and thought it was more of a take it all in kid kind of moment. Wondering where you stand on the solo skate and maybe where your peers lean. Do you think that's a punishment? Not at all. Yeah, I don't. Not even close.

I just look at that as like, okay, this is just your welcome to the NHL and everybody does it now. We all know what's coming. Like once upon a time, it was a joke. Like, hey, all the guys hung back and, you know, rookies out there having a solo lap boy he didn't expect that now everybody expects it but it's just kind of a harmless rite of passage i've never heard of anybody being shamed or feeling shame because of a rookie lap most of the time when people go out there whoever's in the building is going bananas and they've got a huge smile on their face. They love it.

I've never seen one person complain about it that had to do the rookie lap. It's always fun. You know it's coming. You look forward to it. To me, it's harmless. It's harmless and it's a complete rite of passage for players. Welcome to the NHL, kid. I got about zero problem with that one.

Okay, Elliot, taking us out is a Montreal Edmonton connection. Busty and the Bass is a Quebec band that we featured in season four of the podcast. And they're back at it again with the Polaris Music Prize winner, Cadence Weapon. The two musical acts linked up earlier this month on a track that brought both their sounds to one song. With their track Airplanes, here's Busty and the Bass and Cadence Weapon on 32 Thoughts, the beach. Feel the waves on my feet. It's a heat wave. Feel all the rays from the heat. Everything's so peak. Everything's so up, so deep. Nights like this got me feeling so free.

Up in the day, everything got a feed. Don't need no club. Get it in on the street. Every single beat that we play off the leash. Everything I made, made it straight off a speech. Brand new suit, pants pressed with a crease. Everything I dream, see it close to my reach. All the clickbait and the hate got to cease.

Trying to vacate suitcase when I leave. Outside, we we outside trying to kick it from north side to south side we ain't coming in but we going in we can get you the right vibe for the right price yeah outside we outside trying to kick it from north side to south side we ain't coming in but we going in we can get you the right vibe for the right price Yeah, feel like a bird in the sky Airplane mode, auto, we fly Don't say a word, don't ask why I've been living my life like I'm about to go fly Feel like a bird in the sky Airplane mode, auto, we fly

Don't say a word, don't ask why I've been living my life like I'm about to go fly See how I gotta move up, too fast Seeing the sun go down I'm looking at the world view, it's so true Feeling the mountains go round Outro Music