32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Leaving Las Vegas & Craig Conroy

Episode Date: April 29, 2022

Why is everyone piling on Vegas? Jeff and Elliotte discuss the rollercoaster season that it was for the Vegas Golden Knights (00:01), why everyone seems to be enjoying their collapse, what they might look to do this off-season, and the situation with Robin Lehner.The guys also touch on Vancouver’s off-season (22:45), Dustin Brown’s retirement (26:40), the injury to Juuse Saros (30:35), David Morehouse stepping down as the CEO of the Penguins (32:00), Elliotte provides an update on highly touted draft prospect Ivan Miroshnichenko who is entering his fourth and final round of chemotherapy (36:15), Michael Misa being selected 1st overall in the OHL Priority Selection, and legendary announcer Dennis Beyak calls it a career after 11 seasons as the voice of the Winnipeg Jets (39:40).Finally, Calgary Flames Assistant General Manager Craig Conroy joins the podcast (42:40) to talk about what impressed him most this season in Calgary and around the NHL, he gets into some award talk with the guys, chats about his career on the ice and his transition to management, and if he’s been talking to his former agent (Louis Gross) on what it would take to keep Johnny Gaudreau a Calgary Flame.Music Outro: DIM SUMMER - Pool BoyListen to their EP on bandcampThis podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

We're going to sue them. I'm kidding. Legal team saw it. Lawyer rock. And here it is once again, 32 Thoughts to Podcast presented by the all new GMC AT4 lineup. A little bit later on towards the end of the podcast, you will hear from Calgary Flames assistant general manager, Craig Conroy, who's one of the most engaging at times, funny, Elliot, I think we're on the same page about that, people in hockey.

And listen, I remember him as a player with the Calgary Flames, with the Los Angeles Kings, the St. Louis Blues, hardworking, two-way center, and someone that when he made the transition into management, we said, you know what, that kind of fits for Craig Conroy. So you're going to hear from him a little bit later on. In the meantime. And he thinks one of my awards picks is stupid. And if he knew more of your awards picks, he would say there are more than one that he thinks are stupid, but you only shared one.

We got to start with a, so what's next question? The Vegas Golden Knights. What now, Elliot? Maybe we should back up and say what happened before we say what's next. I'm not really sure where to jump in here on Vegas because there's a lot of entry points this season for the Vegas Golden Knights. I'll let you choose from the buffet of choices. I knew, obviously I knew we were going to be doing this tonight. from the buffet of choices.

I knew, obviously, I knew we were going to be doing this tonight. And, you know, I took a lot of time today to think about Vegas and look back over their season and, you know, just ask around. You know, ask a few questions, solicit some opinions, and then kind of think what I thought. You know, the number one thing is, and you talked about it on your radio show today, and I do think this is the number one thing that has to be mentioned more than anything else, is they got crushed by injuries. And the number one reason they're not

in the playoffs this year is because of injuries. And that's it. And everything that went wrong for them was exacerbated by the injuries they suffered and what it did to their cap situation and everything else. So I think that's an important thing to mention. If they're 50% more healthy than they were, I think they're a playoff team, but them's the breaks and that's where we are. And there's a later question we'll get to, and that is, you know, how they're perceived and does that really mean anything? But to me right now, there's two bigger questions.

What does the organization thinks that missing the playoffs means under these circumstances, number one. And number two, they're going to have to make some personnel decisions. The cap demands it. And first and foremost is what's going to happen in goal. That's where I think we have to go here is what are the consequences, if any, what's the direction of the team and what's happening in goal.

Okay. So let's do a quick review then, because I'm with you. Like I think the story here for the Vegas golden Knights is don't overreact because you got crushed by injuries. Mark stone, 36 games, Max patch already 38 games, Jack. Mark Stone, 36 games. Max Pacioretty, 38 games.

Jack Eichel, 33 games. Alec Martinez, 25 games. You knew with Eichel when you got him, that's where you were going. Absolutely. But you look at those other players. These aren't bottom players on your team. These are key guys.

To me, that is the story. I know there's the goalie question. We know there's the, how will Foley react to all this? Because this is new territory for the Vegas Golden Knights. And, you know, after that first season, we're this close and we're going to win the Stanley Cup. Damn it. What are the personnel decisions that the cap is going to demand?

But just as I look back on the season, I'm with you. The story is injuries. And I know all teams deal with it, but this one really crushed the Vegas Golden Knights. And I guess then we'll start with the wild card and there's perhaps only one person.

Hold on one thing. Before we do that, I want to ask you one question. Okay. Because again, you talked about, we talked about this on your radio show and I've thought a lot

about what you said and I've asked some other people about it too. Like I had a few teams tell me today that the Vegas was always a very together team through good and bad. And this year was the first year they really saw them as a frustrated team, you know, doors slamming in games, players occasionally showing frustration or snapping at each other occasionally during games like I don't want to make a big deal of that because I don't want anyone to take that to me that I think that the Vegas Golden Knights all despise each other because I don't know if that's

true I think that when you're losing and your season slipping away I think that's normal and I don't want people to overreact to that. I'm just saying that teams noticed it more this year. So I think the other question they have to determine in the short term is, was that just, as you said, the frustration of the injuries and the season slipping away, or is there any chance the fabric of this team has been changed and they have to address that. And I want to say, I don't know. I'm not saying one or the other. I'm just saying that other teams noticed it more this year, more than ever.

And so I think the Golden Knights have to kind of look at that and say, eh, circumstances or you know what, we better kind of just chew on this a bit. I look at this and I say context is king. And the context we have for the Vegas Golden Knights is this doesn't happen to the Vegas Golden Knights. We better kind of just chew on this a bit. I look at this and I say context is king. And the context we have for the Vegas Golden Knights is this doesn't happen to the Vegas Golden Knights. This is virgin territory.

This is all new for the Vegas Golden Knights. So when they see them struggling down the stretch and we see frustration, we see doors slamming and barking on the bench and sticks getting broken. We're not used to it because even though other teams do it like if you see it with the calgary flames remember when they went through that stretch where they played carolina florida and tampa and all of a sudden toronto last year in the playoffs toronto last year like you you see it but other teams go through it and we've seen other teams go through it before we just haven't seen vegas go through it. It's interesting too. This might sound a little bit weird, but I've always felt this way. I think teams have to learn how to win. And I think teams have to learn how to lose too. Learning how to lose is a really,

really interesting thing to have to go through. And they've never had to go through it. You can learn how to lose and come out of it stronger, or you can abandon this idea of losing and come out of it weaker. You can learn no lessons from it. It actually weakens you. I always think about Tampa, Elliot, over the last couple of years. When they bowed out against the Columbus Blue Jackets in fourth straight after winning the president's trophy, they took that and they learned from it.

They didn't implode. They didn't take that loss. They didn't take that losing and cave in on themselves. They grew from it and they became stronger because of it. You look at the Vegas Golden Knights and you say, this is all new to them. And now they can go one of two ways. This can get worse, but it also has a potential to get better. Now, to your point about the salary cap situation, it's going to be more difficult because there's going to be some difficult decisions that the salary cap necessitates, and that might make learning from losing harder. Yeah. Listen, this is obvious.

We go back to minor and youth hockey. This is a great tool. This can be a great tool for the Vegas Golden golden knights and there is a chance here that they do come out of this stronger provided again they don't overreact to this or don't react emotionally to this well i think that's the thing i think that's a great speech you make like most of your speeches are awful this is that's a really good one and i agree with you you can't the only good thing about going out now is that you have time. You can't really rush and do a lot of things because you can't deal with everybody. You don't really know what the full landscape is out there.

So you have time. And I think that's very important. You look at the roster. I think if you start with that roster, you can win. Oh, listen, ask anybody. Listen, I've asked so many people. You can start with that roster, you can win. Oh, listen, ask anybody. Listen, I've asked so many people. You can win with that roster. I've asked so many people over the last couple of days.

If you run back this exact same roster healthy next season, what happens? They probably win the division. Or at least they're right in the conversation to win the division. If you run this thing back, if you don't overreact and run this thing back and everybody's healthy, you're right back to the top. Aren't you? I think so. I do think you can be a great team next year. I do.

I think the number one thing they have to deal with is Leonard because I don't know where this is going to go. You know, I've told you many times this week and I've repeated it in radio. I podcast wrote it. People are telling me, wait, like this is not over.

There's still more to go here. And I think, you know, Vegas going to play its last game. They're going to have their exit interviews. You know, what's everyone going to say? How does everybody feel?

This is going to take some real skill in handling because there are the possibilities, Jeff, if this isn't handled right of aftershocks, just more and more and more. And also too, is this something that the league and the players association are going to have to get involved in depending on where all this goes? this goes. So if I was running the Golden Knights, that's the number one thing I'm working on right now is how do I work this situation? And remember, it's not like Leonard's a UFA. He's got three more years under contract and the next two are six and six and a half. They're the highest two years of the deal. I'm looking at this and I'm saying, how can I work this? Or is there a way to deal with this so that it can be solved to everyone's satisfaction mentally and physically and emotionally without a series of aftershocks that further damage the franchise? I don't know what the answer is, but I do think everybody's got to be looking at this and saying, if it's not

dealt with in a proper way, it's going to get worse before it gets better. I'm so with you on this one, that the most important person that the Vegas Golden Knights need to do work with this off season is Robin Leonard. I know there's a question you wrote about Riley Smith. I know there are some individual questions for some individual players here but to me it is what can you do to like physically repair Robin Leonard because let's not forget too when Robin Leonard is healthy he's he's one of the best goaltenders in the NHL period ask anybody who follows this closely ask you know the Ask the good people at Ingle Magazine. Ask anyone who's a goalie freak. They'll tell you, man, Robin Leonard is amongst the elite in the NHL.

I'm with you. To me, that is the one area that needs the most attention from Vegas is help that goalie. You help that goalie, you help your organization. You help this franchise. I'm with you. Personnel decisions is the other category here we should probably go over. And you wrote about Riley Smith. We all know the cap situation that the Vegas Golden Knights are faced with and everybody

made the Tampa Bay Lightning, Kucherov, LTI are jokes towards the end of the season. Okay. And then the reality of next season is going to hit the Vegas Golden Knights and they're going to have to make some really tough decisions. How do you see it shaking out? You know, I don't have a great answer for you. Well, Riley Smith is one. I would imagine Evgeny Dodonov would be another. You know, here's the thing.

Smith, like I wrote, I heard that something was close. I got a tip right around the trade deadline that something was close with Smith. And that got disputed to me. But it's very clear they were going down the road with him. And the other thing that was interesting about this was Smith apparently was doing it without an agent. So whenever a player does it without an agent, I generally think it's because they think, you know,

we can handle this and, and get it done. And so I think that's kind of where it was. And I wonder if everything that happened in the last eight weeks has convinced them even more, they need to have the guy. If they determine that and Leonard determines that he can't come back or they can't come back, you know, that's one situation. To Donov, he played really well for them. Yeah, I understand why it might be a situation where he gets traded, but he was one of their best players after the deadline.

Like, if anything, he impressed me even more than I thought about him before. I don't really know the guy that well. I thought he handled himself incredibly well. Just as an aside, did you not think he was scoring on Dallas in the shootout? That that had that kind of ending written all over it, Elliot? Because I did. Absolutely, I did. I mean, to me, the questions there are, the biggest ones are, what do you think that you

need to pay Haig, who does not have Arb rights? And what do you think you need to pay Waugh, who does? I mean, obviously, Vegas still has the hammer on Nick Hague as much as I love him. And I want to do my Anthony Stewart and say all of the money because I love the guy, the team holds the hammer there. Now you want to do well and you want to do right by the player. And he's a big piece of the future of that blue line, but the team has the hammer. So Mark Moser, who's the radio voice of the Avalanche, had a tweet last night. He said, I've worked in the NHL for 25 years.

I've never seen Universal dunking on an organization before. Not once. Whoa. And I think we do see it from time to time, but there's no question there's a lot of it here. The last time I saw this like this was 2011 with the Vancouver Canadiens. You know, it's so funny you say that. Well, not funny to our Vancouver listeners, but funny to me in the sense that that's exactly

the answer I was going to give. And the next year, remember in 2012, the Kings beat them in the first round you remember what they tweeted you're welcome you're welcome canada or something like that yeah it's so funny you say that because that was the exact same thing i was thinking of and i don't like to kick people when they're down i know what that's like but one of the things I wanted to do was just that I asked a bunch of people why, you know, just, you know, what is it about this situation that particularly has brought it out? And a lot of people have different answers, but one thing that definitely appears to be true to me is like a lot of us loved it when Vegas was successful fast, but a lot of teams didn't.

And the way that they ran their expansion draft, like I have no problem with that because you're supposed to try for a competitive advantage, right? But for a lot of fans, I think it's really started to change this year. But I think for a lot of teams in the league, this goes right back to the beginning. Right back to the beginning. And it's that they were successful too soon. They used the power of the expansion draft,

which made some teams look bad. Again, like I get that. That's what you're supposed to do. But for a lot of teams, this goes right back to the beginning. And I will tell you, too, that the Gallant thing, the fact that he had a verbal deal and then it got taken back and he got fired, Gerard Gallant is a really popular guy in hockey circles.

And I think there's still a lot of hard feelings over that. Now, I think a lot of you listening to this who are fans you'll look at this year more for that and i think that's totally fair i would never tell the fans what to think when i ask people in the league why they feel as strongly as they do it goes back to those two things the expansion draft was an interesting one. And I'm glad you mentioned it too, because there was definitely a feeling amongst not all, but some general managers. And that was the way that Vegas was able to successfully navigate and full

kudos to them and their entire staff. Like I want, I want to underscore the great job. Like that was a masterpiece in choosing players but i know some teams felt humiliated because it seemed as if they knew the other team's players better than they did that they knew where to find value and they knew where teams undervalued players. And I think that got a lot of general managers backs up. I can understand it.

You just got humiliated by an expansion team because they plucked some players that you undervalued and look at them now, they're stars. So I understand that rightly or wrongly and wrongly because listen, they followed the rules and you made these players available or you cut these deals to make these players available and protect certain other players and that was your choice congratulations to the vegas golden knights there one other thing to elliot before we move on from the vegas golden knights conversation i don't know about you man but i felt just awful for logan thompson that guy poured everything out of himself to try to keep that team in it.

Like maybe at the end of all of this, like in all of this, like dark cloud around Vegas, they found a good goalie or they found that they have a really good goalie and Logan Thompson. Cause he was exceptional. Elliot man, those three shootouts in a row,

14 of 17 was so good. He was awesome. I felt just awful for this guy. of 17. He was so good. He was awesome. I felt just awful for this guy. I think you learn a lot about a guy and how he competes and battles in difficult situations. And he competed and he battled. I would just like to say the

last thing I want to say about Vegas. I do agree with you on Thompson. It's a great point. I'm glad you brought it up. You know, the last thing I'd just like to say about Vegas is I'd like to know what the players think. You know, how last thing I just like to say about Vegas is I'd like to know what the players think, you know, how do they feel about all this? And I think their voices are very important, especially the last two weeks. We'll see. Exit interviews are coming up. You know, Elliot, one thing we should mention is um this is going right big night Friday huge

right Friday is going to be an enormous night and it's always nice when things go right down to the wire now we've all known the playoff teams in the east going back months and it's only been a matter of seeding but that is going to continue Elliot right into Friday and there's also some machinations here in the West that we need to dedicate some attention to as well. Well, first of all, do you think that there is any chance that Toronto Maple Leafs send the novice single A Golden Park Rangers to play the Boston Bruins on Friday night?

Well, they're keeping Matthews out. They're keeping Marner out of this one as well against the Boston Bruins. I'm not sure if Goulding Park is going to show up, Elliot, but we'll see. Tampa Bay could have kind of locked it down. They didn't do it. First of all,

picking who you're going to play against is a really bad idea in general. But if you were the Leafs, would you rather play Boston or Tampa? If you're the Leafs, Boston. Yeah, I think you're probably right. I've said it all season long. I'd rather play, if I'm the Maple Leafs, I'd rather play Boston than Tampa.

Now, Tampa wins and they're playing the Islanders. They're playing Toronto. But Boston's a point behind. They play the Maple Leafs on Friday night, and Boston also holds the tiebreaker. The other thing I'm thinking if I'm Tampa, Jeff, is you're playing the Islanders in the last game. Islanders are a tough team. They play really hard.

I don't know if I'd want to put my best team out there one game before the playoffs. And I'm not even talking about Islanders deliberately injuring guys. Just the way they play, you can get hurt. If you're Florida, does it matter if you play Pittsburgh or Washington? How's Tristan Jari? You know, that's the question. If you're Carolina, who would you rather have?

Pittsburgh, Washington, or Tampa? I don't want Tampa. That's the last team I want to play. That's a scary team. And again, the Pittsburgh question is still, how's Tristan Jari? If you're the Rangers, do you want Pittsburgh or Washington? Rangers have owned Pittsburgh for a couple of years now. I'm tempted just to say outright,

whether I trust the Sanjari's fine or not, and I'll take the Penguins. I want to avoid Tampa. That's the team I don't want to play. Somebody tweeted me today, I wish I could find the tweet. Have you noticed how Tampa's been killing teams ever since you said they were tired? I got the same tweet.

Isn't it interesting? The moment Elliot started barking about how Tampa's tired, they've been starching teams 8-1, 9-4. The rest of the NHL, way to go, Elliot. You've woken up the volcano here. Tremendous. And we've still got gotta wait in the west

exactly who colorado and calgary gonna play is it gonna be dallas or is it gonna be nashville dallas man they look really they looked like they were gonna win that detroit that arizona game eight nothing and you know all credit to the coyotes for coming back in that one sure they showed a ton of pride you know know, I was looking at it, Dallas, since this playoff system went into effect in 2013-14 and over 82 games, minus 10, only Detroit once had a worse differential, goal differential of making it in.

Twice Detroit made it in with negative goal to referentials. One year they were minus eight, and one year they were minus 13. I think this is the second worst playoff deferential under this playoff system, 82 games. It's a definition of going backwards into the playoffs.

But nonetheless, just get in. Yeah. Okay, Elliot, the last team that we have to get to by way of discussing teams that have been eliminated are the Vancouver Canucks. Man, we have talked a lot about the Vancouver Canucks this year. And there were times, there's one manager, Elliot, that texts us every now and then and sort of chides us about,

are we going to get our daily Vancouver Canucks update from your podcast again this week? And that's always received well. You know, I have about, you know, are we going to get our daily Vancouver Canucks update from your podcast again this week? And that's always received well. You know, I have to tell you too, there was one time I was calling a PR guy to see if I could set an interview up with a player and he goes, can't wait to hear about Vancouver on the podcast for the 96th consecutive time. We've talked so much about Vancouver. And here we go again, Elliot.

Vancouver officially eliminated. I don't know where to go here. We've talked plenty. We can talk about JT Miller and Ian McIntyre's fantastic piece. We can talk about Bo Horvat, whom you wrote about in 32 Thoughts at Sportsnet.ca this week. Where do you think is particularly important to begin? Because we talked about Boudreaux last time. Well, I just think we should just briefly mention just briefly mention that, that I wouldn't be

surprised if they take a run at that pretty quick and just see if they can get to a situation where they can knock that down. One of the things about Vancouver, I think that was really good for them in the second half of the season is the attention was focused on the things you want it focused on, right? Like I said, on your podcast, Vegas has to tune down the noise, right? Yeah. Well, Vancouver had a really noisy first half of the season and they finished with a really quiet second half of the season because they win.

And Boudreaux is obviously a huge part of that. Like the thing I think about Rutherford is I think he's really smart. I think he's seen everything. I think he understands the smart. I think he's seen everything. I think he understands the way the world works. He understands that negotiations go here and there. And I think he understands it. And I think they take a run to try to get Boudreaux done reasonably quickly. What changed? Do you think, was it just public outcry?

I don't think it was simply a public outcry. I't think it was simply a public outcry i also think it was there's just a recognition that you know he connected with the group they're gonna try to bring a lot of this group back right like you mentioned miller's piece with mcintyre you know obviously it's gonna come down to what kind of deal they can make but it's clear that miller is welcome to come back. Like it's not like this guy's running out the door, right? I think Rutherford just knows that why tempt fate here? Now, I think the biggest question is term.

I think if Boudreaux's talking four years, I don't think that's going to happen. But if it's next year plus two more, I think there's the possibility of getting this done. I just think there's an understanding that this worked and that's what it is. You know, as for the roster, I know there's been a lot of talk about Miller

and there's been a lot of talk about Besser, but I really do think there's a chance that Horvat is their number one priority. You know, getting him locked up and then they'll kind of see where everything goes from there. How busy an off season do you think it will be? Because the hue and cry that we heard when, you know, Rutherford took over was bring me

cap space. I need cap space. I need to maneuver here. I'm frozen. I can't do things. Has that changed? I don't think that's necessarily changed. I do think that, like, it depends on what all becomes available to them. Right.

And you know, Rutherford, he's got his hands in a lot of different places. He's seen everything. Nothing surprises him. I'm sure he's serving the landscape and figuring it out. I don't think they're coming back with the same group, but the question is who's he moving out? I wouldn't be surprised if we're not aware of what his biggest move is going to be yet. And it comes out of something else that happens in the playoffs or around the playoffs. We shall see. Yeah.

Dustin Brown, you know what I wondered about at the time? When you and I discussed the embrace after the Anaheim Los Angeleseles game with ryan getzlaff and dustin brown the first thing when i saw that going through my mind was i wonder if dustin brown is saying i'm next to ryan getzlaff like we talked about the nature of that's a great question how anaheim los angeles once upon a time was must-see television. Those games were so good, every single one of them. They were great. And I love the fact that these two guys came together at center ice after Getzlaf made his announcement, obviously.

And it was the last game against the Los Angeles Kings. And I just wondered, because I'm thinking about all those guys from 2003, and a lot of them are winding down their careers. I just wondered if Dustin Brown said, you know what? I'm right there behind you. I'm not coming back for another year. It was great to play against you or something along those lines. Anyhow, Dustin Brown announcing today that at the end of the,

this really smart this year's playoffs, that he will retire taking another chess piece off the board. That is the 2003 NHL draft. Your thoughts on Dustin Brown, Elliot. You know, by the way, I'm beginning to think more and more that you're going to be right about Brent Burns. I think it's Burns.

I think it's Burns or Suter. Yeah. I think those are the two guys. Dustin Brown, the thing I won't forget about him is the guy who got the Stanley Cup. Twice he took the Stanley Cup. I'm not going to be remembered that way, but I would be really happy to be remembered that way.

That's all you need. I mean, I remember, Jeff, Dustin Brown was on the U.S. team at the 2003 World Juniors, lost to Canada in the semifinals in Halifax. That's the first World Juniors I ever covered. I remember just a lot of the people I dealt with in that tournament, and he was one of them. And a hell of a career.

Quiet guy, very charitable. I know that for a long time, the Kings would always say that if they needed somebody to do something, that he was always one of those guys who was available. That's another thing I think is a really nice thing to have said about you. But at the end of the day, when I think of Dustin Brown, I think of a guy who was handed the Stanley cup twice and that's a hell of a

legacy. Yeah. For the, uh, expansion Los Angeles Kings. And I see that going back to 1967. Um, I think of a guy that was miserable to play against.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. All I can think of, but I was like, how awful must it have been to have to play against that guy oh yeah all i can think about is like how awful must it have been to have to play against that guy in a seven game series and he was relentless like he would do things you know sometimes cross the line and wouldn't care he'd come back and do it again like it was like he was like robotic about it like yeah, yeah, I did that.

And I don't care. I'm going to come back and I'm going to do it again. And you can do nothing about it. And he wasn't going to get sucked into anything stupid. He wasn't going to get dragged into anything that was going to hurt his team. He just went about his business being a really good hockey player that was miserable to play against. I have to say sometimes that did drive me crazy. I loved it. I loved it. There was like an almost robotic nature about Dustin Brown.

I'm going to do something that you don't like over and over and over again in a seven game series, and I'm going to make your life hell. That's what Dustin Brown did over and over again. a seven game series. And I'm going to make your life hell. That's what Dustin Brown did over and over again. I loved it. I can only imagine how awful that was to play against. I don't think everybody else loved it as much as you did. Cause I just watched it from my couch, Ellie.

Of course. I love that. Congratulations to Dustin Brown on a wonderful career. We wish him and the Los Angeles Kings all the best in the playoffs all right two quick things I want to get to before we touch on a couple of prospects Jeff first of all UC Soros there was a reporter today his name is Alex Dougherty and he works for a company called A to Z Sports and he reported that Soros has a high ankle sprain and could be four to six weeks. Now, I'm not sure about the timeline. I don't like timelines. I remember

one playoff series. I can't remember when it was, but I reported that Keith Primo was going to miss game one of a playoff series with a concussion and he played. And I remember just like, I'm, I'm never doing this again. So I don't know about the timeline, but I don't think Alex is necessarily too far off on his report. I do think it's possible. That's the injury. I don't know the timeline, but like I've said, I just don't think it's good. That was the one thing that I hated about that Nashville-Calgary game. Yeah, it really sucks.

That game was spectacular. The only thing that I didn't like, because I think a lot of us are drooling at the idea of Nashville and Calgary playing a seven-game series, especially if it looks anything like that game was. I just hated seeing Saros go off the ice. I want to see Markstrom versus Soros. Well, I think you want to see if teams are going to lose.

They're going to lose with their full rosters, right? Yeah. That's not what you want to see, and that's not what you have any desire to see. And the last thing I want to mention is I did have a chance to speak today to David Morehouse. Okay. The CEO of the Pittsburgh Penguins who resigned on Wednesday after 16 years. And obviously,

it was a great era for the Penguins. Thanks to Sidney Crosby, Evgeny Malkin, Marc-Andre Fleury, Chris Letang, and a whole host of other players. They won three Stanley Cups. And, you know, the timing was strange. But as he said to me, you know, is there ever a good time? So he's had some, you know, health issues that he's had to deal with. And he spent a bit of time in hospital a year ago. And he just said that it was at that time, you know, he decided that eventually it was going to get to the point where maybe it was time to step back a little bit.

And, you know, he's got a son who plays in the BCHL and is going back for another season in the BCHL. Then he's going to go to Dartmouth and And he's got a couple of daughters, and he wants to spend time with them. I think it's pretty clear to me that he decided about a year ago from our conversation that it was coming to an end. It was just a matter of when. And he didn't tell me this, but somebody else did. They're not surprised it came now because before the sale, Morehouse basically, you know, Ron Burkle's a billionaire and he's doing whatever he does. And Mario Lemieux is the other owner and he's not involved in the day-to-day stuff. So in a lot of ways, you know, Morehouse was running the franchise. And now there's new ownership. you know, Morehouse was running the franchise and now there's new ownership. And look,

as this person stressed to me, he said, it's not like it's bad or anything, but it is going to be different. So if you're planning to go, now is the time. I spoke to this person after I spoke to Morehouse, so I didn't talk to him about that, but it makes a lot of sense to me. And I think that Morehouse just is at a point where after 16 years, what he went through last year, he's just ready to spend some time with his kids and do some other things. And I don't think anybody can really knock that at all. You know, the other thing he told me, Jeff, that he was really proud of is this year, Logan Cooley will become the first local Pittsburgh kid to be taken in the top five of the NHL draft.

And he stressed when I spoke to him that that's not solely about him and he doesn't want anyone thinking he's taking credit for that. Like, you know, the Penguins of our team, remember, they were in bankruptcy and they were in big trouble. And Mary Lemieux coming back and sydney crosby and malkin and the penguins realized they really had to make themselves part even more of the city's culture and he says it's not solely me he said he's proud he played of the role he played as part of it but he says leaving at a time when cooley is about to be

the city's first top five pick he said it's a real special feeling for him yeah i'm glad he mentioned that too because you know that penn's elite program is as far as youth hockey goes elliot it's fantastic i remember we talked during the um the our pandemic shows we talked to tyler kennedy he does some great work with a lot of these kids too. But honestly, that Penn's elite program is fantastic. And they are cranking out high-end players. And Logan Cooley's not the last. There's going to be more.

I'm glad that Morehouse takes a lot of pride in that because they got a really good thing going there in Pittsburgh. Yeah, I think we have to stress not credit but pride right because he said if you say I'm taking credit for this it's pretty funny listen what can be better than enjoying your family what can be better than going to watch your kid play hockey man I do it I'm a dad I watch it I love it Good on David Morehouse.

Take a bow. David Morehouse, if you're listening right now, take a bow for a very successful 16 seasons with the Pittsburgh Penguins. What a ride that was. And just before we say it to Craig Conroy, I wanted to touch on Ivan Maroshnishenko. Ivan Maroshnishenko. So last time we spoke about him, we were talking about how he had been diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma.

Yes. So that was in March. And I mean, you know him better than I do. He's a high pick potentially in the draft. Oh, yeah. So right now, the under 18s are in Germany, and he's in Germany getting treatment. I believe he's heading into his fourth and final round of chemotherapy. And I believe, and nobody would say who,

but I think there's some NHL teams that met with him there, that they took the time to go meet with him and talk to him and see how he's doing. And the word I got back was he, you know, he looks pretty good, all things considered. He's a little thinner than he was before, but nobody was really thrown by that. He's not doing heavy workouts.

His father, I didn't know this, his father's name is Nikolai. He's a track coach. So they go for long walks in mountains and trails and things like that to keep his strength up. Great. But after this treatment, I think he's going to start looking at getting his, when can he get his strength up? When can he go back on the ice? You know, I don't know where he's going to get drafted or anything like that, Jeff.

But, you know, the teams are being very careful of who actually met with him. But I thought it was very interesting that they did go to meet with him. And obviously I wish Ivan the best. I think we all do. Absolutely. Good luck to that, that super young man. And as a hockey player,

yeah, you're right, Fridge, this guy is, this guy is a heck of a hockey player. We, from everyone here, we wish him the best.

I want to mention Michael Misa as well. Yes. So today it was announced Michael Misa, no surprise, was first overall in the, as they refer to it, OHL priority selection, which is a fancy way of saying the OHL draft, um, Saginaw spirit. So congratulations to that young man, um, that young man's family, his brother plays with the Mississauga Steelheads, uh, of the OHL. So now the, the two brothers are playing in the Ontario league. Uh, congrats to, uh, Sag Saginaw General Manager Dave Drinkle.

This is a great one for him. And Chris Lazzari, who's the head coach of the Saginaw Spirit. You now have a Ferrari to drive, Chris. This kid is a real special one where everything, like as we mentioned on Hockey Night a few weeks ago, everything kind of turned for him at the OHL Cup by way of exceptional status. I should have mentioned that off the top for those that aren't familiar with the story. He was

granted recently exceptional status to enter the OHL a season early, joining the likes of John Tavares and Aaron Ekblad, and most recently Shane Wright and some guy by the name of Connor McDavid who went in early to join the Eriotters. So congratulations to that young man. And isn't one of Anthony's players supposed to go second? Yes. Malcolm Spence, who I would imagine would go number two to the Eriotters. Number 17 from the Mississauga Senators, same team that Michael Mesa played with. There's another outstanding player right there who, if Michael Mesa wasn't granted exceptional status, Elliot, Spence probably would have gone first overall. Congratulations, Anthony.

Always happy to see one of his guys do well. Elliot, and before we get to Craig Conroy here, man, we're getting heavy on time. I know. I apologize for the long podcast. Luckily, there's no games this weekend, so all of you can listen to this. Someone who I've always admired as a broadcaster and cherished as a friend and someone that I used to work with when AM640 had the

Toronto Maple Leafs radio rights and actually the Mississauga Ice Dogs during the lockout of 0405 when we were doing Ice Dogs games Dennis Bayak handled them Dennis Bayak announcing that at the end of the season he will step away from the Winnipeg Jets

microphone I believe you mentioned on Twitter way to go calling your own end of the season he will uh he will step away from the winnipeg jets microphone uh i believe you mentioned on twitter way to go calling your own shot dennis back i love this guy i think he's one of the best hockey play-by-play voices in the game period just solid solid you know what i've always said about back we're blessed with great play-by-play people in this industry and great color voices as well denn Dennis is one of those rare people that could handle a broadcast by himself, do both the play-by-play and the color, and it would be seamless. I don't know that I've ever seen anybody prepare for a broadcast like Dennis Bayak or have a wider frame of reference to pull information from than Dennis Bayak.

Has a background in junior hockey, running teams, broadcasters, certainly radio. We think of the Oilers from so many years ago and Maple Leafs radio and Winnipeg Jets television. I'll let you speak here in a second. I just want to publicly wish Dennis Bayak all the success as he moves away and a big congratulations for a, for a tremendous career calling NHL games. Well, I spoke to him earlier today and people deserve to call their own shot.

Like when you have worked as long as he has, and you have just been as professional as he has, and you have been as low maintenance as he has does the game. He does it well. He does it exceptionally well. It doesn't cause anyone any problems. He's happy to do his work without getting a lot of attention. You deserve the right to go out when you're ready and on your terms. And that's what I asked him today. It was,

you know, was it your call? And he said a hundred percent. So I'm just happy for that. So Elliot, to conclude this already lengthy podcast, we want to make it longer but trust me it is going to be worth your while to stick with it Craig Conroy is the assistant general manager of the Calgary Flames a former NHLer a very colorful personality a wonderful speaker a very thoughtful guy and someone that I've always enjoyed speaking to whether it's on a podcast or on radio television whatever when I say Craig Conroy's name to you, Freed, what pops into your brain? Never said no to an interview, and I always appreciate it. That was what I thought before this interview.

Now what I think about after this interview is he thinks my Selkie pick is terrible. I like him already, said everybody listening to this podcast. So here he is, Craig Conroy, Assistant General Manager of the Calgary Flames on 32 Thoughts Pod. Enjoy. First of all, Craig, thanks so much for joining us here on the podcast today. And one thing that we're just talking a little bit off air about Matthew Kachuk. And you told a really funny story. And I would hate to leave that one, as they say, in the green room. Can you, Craig, start this interview off by telling us a story of, you know, we'll go back to the 2016 NHL draft.

It's in Buffalo. Austin Matthews goes first overall. Matthew Kachuk falls to the flames at six. What happens as Matthew Kachuk walks up onto the stage to greet you and Brian Burke, etc.? So I'm standing right next to Berkey and Berkey just said, you know, as he's coming up, we don't wear hats here. And he says, well, that's good because I'm having a great hair day. And he says, well, that's good because I'm having a great hair day. And he didn't miss a beat.

So you just, you know, that shows you how quick-witted Matthew is and ready to go. And he didn't care if it was Brian Burke or whoever. He just, that came to his mind and he said it. You know, we're recording this interview on Wednesday, April 27th, just after two o'clock Eastern. And this is after a great game against the Nashville Predators. And Matthew Kachuk is front and center and he's going at Duchesne. And, you know, such a Matthew Kachuk move at the end of the game, you know,

offers to autograph a stick for Matthew Olivier. Like, it's just like everything about that game, you know, during the game, after the game, just screamed Matthew Kachuk. I'm like, this is a signature game for Matthew Kachuk. How do you see him in the organization? For the way, he's having a heck of a season. How do you see him in the organization? For the way, he's having a heck of a season. How do you see him in the organization right now from your purchase, assistant GM?

It's the whole line. It's amazing what, it's around the whole league though. I mean, but just him in particular, it's what you expect from Matthew. He's got all the intangibles. We always say, you know, he brings intangibles. Well, you saw it last night, you know, finishing the check, scoring the big goal, you know, just being in every scrum in the penalty box. I mean, he's chirping, he's got the other team agitated and that's when he's at his

best. And last night that was as good a game as I've seen him play. And I really think he wanted to set the tone and say, Hey, if we play you in the playoffs, this is what's coming. You know, I have to tell you, watching this whole calgary team this year craig i'd like to kind of go through last summer because you guys missed the playoffs last year and it's a really brutal year for a lot of different reasons just the way life was and i remember at the end of last year the whole group was sitting there kind of saying are we stale are we stale is this the right group and now you're of saying, are we stale? Are we stale? Is this the right

group? And now you're sitting here, you've had a phenomenal season. You've really only had one bad week all year. I'd like to hear about some of the decision-making that you guys went through in the off season and how you decided to come back with a lot of the same group. Cause I think a lot of teams would have had the intuition to kind of blow it up and go different. Well, I think looking back into 2019 season, you know, we had an unbelievable season. We fell short in the playoffs. But as a group, what we could do as far as trades, make different things. With Darryl coming in and, you know, if we said we could add a few pieces that Darryl wanted, that's first and foremost. What does the coach want?

How can we do it? And we did believe, you know, I believe Matthew Kachuk, he needs those fans. He needs that. To be in an arena with no fans, with no emotion, that's not Matthew Kachuk. And even going into that year, I thought we were the second or third best team in the Canadian division. So to underperform the way we did, it was disappointing, but you still believed in, hey, you know what? We've made some good moves.

We brought in Markstrom. We brought in Tanev. They were excellent. I felt like Markstrom, after he had his injury, even now getting to know him even more this year and seeing him all the time, I don't know if he was quite right the rest of the year. He just seemed a little bit off to me. And to have him back healthy, ready to go the way he

was at the beginning of the year before the injury, I thought was a huge difference. And that's always going to give you a chance. And then, you know, Darrell wanted to probably get bigger. Brad was saying, okay, who can we find? And I think when you look at a guy like Zdorov, what he did to us in the playoffs in 19, you know, kind of raising the roof, going after Johnny, going after our top players, you know, you're like, hmm, you'd like to have that guy. And then, you know, another big guy to bring in Gabranson. And, you know, we got to see him a lot in Ottawa last year, obviously live, which always helps. So those were a couple things. But internally, we thought we brought in Daryl for a reason. We brought in a Daryl because we believed in the team, and that's why we brought Daryl in.

If we thought we were going to have to make huge changes, probably would have went with a different coach. And for whatever reason, the 30 games didn't work as well. I mean, I honestly thought we were going to get in with Darrell last year, and unfortunately we didn't. And in your mind, you thought what he's doing this year is how it was going to work. Obviously, he said it was going to take more time. You know, I never want to take a lot of time. I'm like, what?

We brought him in. I want results now, Darrell. So those are the hard things when you're looking back. I don't think we ever really discussed, hey, we're going to make changes. Guys had off years. Monaghan was hurt. Unfortunately, Monaghan's hurt again this year. So it's disappointing.

But the belief we had in our guys was always there. And we felt like if we had a few pieces, you know, did I think it was going to be this good? Probably not. But I definitely thought we were a playoff team. Did I think it was going to be this good? Probably not, but I definitely thought we were a playoff team. So I wanted to ask you a little bit about Goodbranson, Zdorov, and Luchich too, who was already there. One of the things that the Flames have taught, I think, a lot of people this year is that

if you're going to bring in people, you have to bring them into a situation where you're going to put them into a place where they can be successful. And I think a lot about your own career, Craig, you know, you had that great run with Calgary, you went to the Stanley Cup final, and then you signed with Los Angeles. And a year and a half later, you were back in Calgary, and you basically just said that some things work for certain people. And I'm looking at Lucic and Gabranton and Zdorov. I don't know if those three guys would be as successful anywhere else than they are in Calgary right now.

So what is that about finding a place and how you identified that this was going to be a place that was going to work for those three people? Well, I think first and foremost, you need to give them a role, put them in a situation to succeed and play a lot. I know. And that's the thing. I know Lucic was scoring goals early on, but even though he hasn't scored a goal in a situation to succeed and play a lot you know and that's the thing I mean I know Looch was scoring goals early on but even though he hasn't scored a goal in a long time he is such

a huge if you I mean if you didn't get to see the Nashville game last night oh he was front and center of everything and that's what you need but like when we we talked downstairs he just said Craig you know it's not about points for me anymore. It's about winning. It's about embracing the role that I have. Everybody wants to play a little bit more. But I think with him, especially, he takes a leadership role in the room. He's won a Stanley Cup. He just wants to win another Stanley Cup. And he's going to do whatever it takes. If he plays seven minutes or 15 minutes, he's going to do everything he can in those shifts. And you should see the work ethic in practice. That's what I love. You know, he comes to practice every day like a pro. The same thing with Gabranson and Zdorov. You wanted a big, heavy pair that could

play against top players and be physical. That's what Darryl wanted in his third pair. And that's what he got. But he also made them feel they're big, huge parts of this team. I mean, if you bring in a player and he's a skilled player and you put him on the fourth line, it really doesn't do him any justice. You've got to put guys in the right spot to succeed, and I think that's where Darryl, he pushes all those buttons, and that's what makes him a special coach. I mean, playing for him and seeing what he's doing this year with the guys he had. And you know, another guy that's a little unsung

for us, he definitely is unsung, is Trevor Lewis. He's played everywhere in the lineup. He's done everything. And he just brings that calming, winning attitude to the locker room that, you know, I think we needed to go along with our other guys that maybe, you know, haven't done it. But to bring in a Toffoli, guys like that, it's just real fun to be around the team right now and excited to see where this is going to go. What do you think of Lucic's walk-ins? Like when he's walking into the game.

Like now he's just doing it for the camera. Like it's obvious. You know what? That's him to a T, and that's what I love about him. He brings a presence. He brings, you know. Yes. You want characters in the sport.

I mean, I see Austin Matthews walking in, Marner with those suits. You know, I think it's good for the game. I love the zealous goals. I love, you don't want to see everybody just say the same thing, wear the same clothes. I'm actually looking forward to seeing what Looch walks in every time. And, you know, now the pressure's on because he's got to kind of try to outdo himself each and every game. Those walk-ins have become legendary already, though.

Like there's no mistake. That's something we look forward to specifically. Okay. Flames games on the board. Let's see what Looch is wearing. We know what the walk is going to look like because he looks like he's slow walking to the world's biggest fight, and he's calm.

He's got ice water running through his veins. Let me ask you about a couple of Swedish centermen. When you played, you were a really good two-way center. For those that may not have watched you play, you're a really good two-way center, and you were the finalist for a Selkie trophy a couple of times as well. And you've got two players on the Calgary Flames

right now that will get Selkie consideration. One is Elias Lindholm and the other is Michael Backlund. What do you see when you see these two players and what their contributions are to the Calgary Flames? I think being a center myself

and knowing what it's like to do all that work with the defensemen in the defensive zone, all the little plays they make, both guys are very deserving. It's hard because you don't want to split up the vote and you're always nervous that you're going to do that. But Lindholm is having one of the greatest years I've ever seen. When Backlund was up for the Selkie last time, Bergeron was, you know what, I'll admit it. I watched Bergeron and said, wow, it was just an amazing, amazing year. And I didn't even think there was a chance for anybody else. But this year, I feel the same way about Lindholm. I really do. It's the play away from the puck, the way he supports, the way he does all the dirty

work to let Johnny and Matthew do what they do special, and that's to go on offense, to win face-offs, to block shots, outlets for his deep, you know, easy plays, the way he defends. Both those guys have done such an amazing job. And the reason we're having all the success is when your centers play that well, and both zones, you're going to win a lot of games. And obviously, you know, this year has been special for that one line especially, but I think Lindholm's the guy that for me that if he doesn't win the Selkie this year, it's a real travesty. Oh, I have to tell you, so I was on with Kelly on the panel on last Saturday's game

when you guys were playing Vancouver, and I said, I think Bergeron's going to win it this year. I think he's going to win it. And did I hear from the Flames fans? They murdered me in my DMs. It was crazy, crazy, crazy, Craig. Boy, I forgot what audience I was on with. Well, you know, I would say in the past, you're 100% right, Elliot. Like, I would have voted for him that year with Backlund, too,

and I love Backlund. I thought he had an amazing year. This year, I feel the exact way with Lindholm. The problem is we have those 8 o'clock games out here. We don't, you know, I think we get lost in the shuffle a little bit when it comes to major awards, whether it's, you know, the Vesna, Hart, Selke. I think sometimes having those late eight o'clock starts, a lot of people are like, well, I had to go to bed after the first period, you know. So hopefully that doesn't affect it.

But I do believe I think you're totally wrong, Elliot, this time. Usually I agree with you, but not this time. Okay, this interview is over and it's never going to see the light of day. Before we talk about your career a bit, you mentioned a couple years ago you guys were a very high seed and it lasted five games. Yeah. And I would bet that you think it's going to be a lot different this time. Just what do you see in this group now that maybe wasn't the case then?

I just think the way it's built. You saw the game last night and it's physical, hard. There's going to be, you know, with a roller coaster of emotions. I think we just feel more comfortable in those games now. We feel like if we have to play a big, heavy, hard game, we're built for that. And I think, you know, going into those playoffs, I really was kind of hoping Arizona was going to get in that year. I thought that was a good matchup for us. I was scared of the big line. You just didn't know. I was just in watching Makar play Harvard a few weeks before and said, oh, this guy looks good. You know, obviously,

you know, he came right in and did what he's done. And he's an amazing player. But it just didn't feel quite right. And this year, you just feel like that confidence. And the 11 years I've been on this side, there's just a feeling around that room that they all believe in themselves. It doesn't matter what kind of game. And I think with Markstrom and Nett, there's that belief that we can make a long run. You know, obviously it's going to be hard. Every team you play is, it's going to be a battle, but you know, I think that's part of it, having that belief in yourself.

Was there a moment, Craig, this season, because as you mentioned, coming off what happened last season, you know, there's got to be some apprehension about what this season is going to bring with it. You don't want to make too many bold predictions, but like, I would imagine that there must've been a certain point in the season where you said to yourself, okay, you know what? We really are this good. Like we really can contend. Like we belong at the top of this division. Was there like one moment, one game, one week, one something where you said to yourself, you know what? This is legit and it's going to be legit all season long. I think the way we started on the road this year, even in training camp, it just had a

different feel. Guys were pissed off. Guys were like, okay, that was not what we wanted to do. It was embarrassing last year. I mean, to put it any other way, that's what they felt coming in. I think they all came in in great shape. You know, they were ready to go, and it was business from day one, and that starts with the coaching staff.

I mean, Darrell said, as management, every now and then you'd like to see some of your young guys get to play in those preseason games. He was not having that. He was all about, we're getting ready for game one. We're getting ready for the season. It was disappointing last year and we're just, we're all business. So I think right from day one of training camp, the way we played in the road, playing against top teams and to see how we played against them. And we're writing games, either win or lose, but there was a, you know was a feeling that, hey, we can beat anybody in any given night.

And the team believes that. And then to have kind of the way our top line has been scoring. I mean, it's amazing how scoring, and I worry a little bit about this moving forward for the league because coaches ruin everything. This is so much fun. This is so much fun to watch what's going on. I was watching a game the other night and they said 14 guys, I forget which team it was, had career highs. 14 guys. I'm thinking, how many guys do we have on our team? How many? To see what Austin Matthews did last night. This is fun. And I think just to see how good that top line was, we knew something

special was going to happen here. Did I know it was going to continue all year? No. And then just a confidence build. And that third pairing has been excellent. You know, to have a guy like Shillington come in to play with Tanev and to see that chemistry. And then, you know, for me, two of the guys that maybe get underrated here for us in Calgary are Hannafin and Anderson. They're as good as anybody. as anybody and you know they don't get a lot of the maybe the respect or credit that they deserve but they've been amazing so it's just as a group how it's come together and it's fun to watch and i can't wait to get the playoff started i wanted to ask you you're drafted 1996 round by the montreal canadians year. Like you haven't even started university yet. You don't go to Clarkson until that fall.

So were you expecting to be drafted that year? Did you know that people had you on the radar? No, not really. I mean, I went to Northwood. So I'm from a small town in upstate New York, Potsdam, and talking to college coaches. They said I really needed to, I was good against, they thought, weak competition. So they said, you need to do something. There wasn't USHL. I didn't really know junior hockey that well, you know, so I went to prep school at Northwood,

and Chris Terrian was there. So Chris Terrian was definitely going to get drafted. And I think there was a ton of scouts in watching him. And I had a good year at Northwood. So, you know, you're kind of hoping you get drafted, but you never expect it. And then for it to be Montreal, I mean, that was my team growing up. So that was pretty special to get that phone call. Was this one of those stories where you thought it was a joke? I did. I did.

You know, if it was any other team, I might not. Then I got the second call back and it was the French X. I was like, whoa, wait, maybe this is true. Obviously, I didn't go to the draft. I just got a phone call. It was nice. Mike Richter went there? Yeah. Chris Nyland. Chris Nyland went there too who else went to Northwood yeah Tarion uh I'm trying to think who else now now you got me stumped uh but I think I think Jay Miller and Chris Nyland I heard there might have been players holy smokes Jay Miller and Chris Nyland now I know why you like Lucci so much. I love tough guys. Oh, geez.

They might have fought in the cafeteria too, is what I heard. I don't know if that's just folklore. It's amazing how some people have to kind of change when they get to the NHL, but you know, how tough he was and Chris Nyland and yeah, you know, Granada was there. Oh, yeah. Tony.

So there's been some some players but I think that your Chris Terrian was the big name coming out of Northwood you go to Clarkson for four years you had a big last year you had 65 points in 34 games when you left school and you headed towards the NHL and the AHL you know what did you reasonably expect, Craig? What did you think was your future? You know, I thought, I'm going to do my best. I'm going to see what it's like. I mean, obviously going to the NHL, I didn't know. You know, I figured I was going to be playing in the minors. And unfortunately, I hit Patrick Watt in the head on my very first shot. We got in a little bit of a fight and I got sent down right after that. So

it didn't go well to start, to be honest, guys, like I, I actually want to just leave Montreal as quick as I could. So, Oh my God, you hit Patrick Watt in the head with your first shot. I was so excited. Like they had just, they had won a cup and you know, he's obviously a God in Montreal. And my first shot, I was just waiting in the back of the line and I took a shot. It was a scrimmage. First time I've ever been on the ice. And I think the emotion and the adrenaline that I had going and I let a rocket go and right off the head. And he stopped the whole thing, threw a stick over the glass and charged out and punched me right in the forehead.

So it didn't go that well to start my pro career to say the least. Wow. That's a remarkable thing. Hang on. I am curious. At that moment, so when you take that shot and hit Patrick Wall, what I'm imagining in my head here, Craig, is everybody on the ice stops. Yes.

Like, uh-oh, something big just happened here. Is that accurate? That's what it feels like what happened to me. Is that what happened? Yeah, both teams stopped. And then Patrick slowly started coming out. And I was apologizing. I'm so sorry.

I didn't mean to hit you. I'm sorry. You know, you're apologizing. And then when he punched me, my reaction was just to grab a hold of him just because I didn't want to get punched again. And both teams jumped on me. And it was like, I was a rag doll in the middle of two teams. My team was going after me and the other team was going after me.

I mean, I just couldn't get to the, I just was like, oh boy. And then in the old forum, you know how they don't have the glass right behind. So all the reporters were like right there and asking me questions when I'm on the bench. I just was like, I didn't mean to hit them. Like, and, and I was everywhere in the, in the papers, the French, the French media killed me that next day. Thank God I couldn't read it. Some guys just told me what it said. Now, where I really remember you from, Craig, is I interviewed you on the ice when you guys knocked out San Jose to win the Western Conference Final in 2004. And I'll never forget, there was one thing you said, that crowd was going bananas. And you said, I didn't want to come here.

And this turned out better for me than I ever could imagine. I'm paraphrasing, but it was something like that. So you've been in Calgary and basically you've never left aside for hockey reasons, basically never left. Like take us through that time when you got dealt there for Corey Stillman and what you were thinking and feeling. You know, I think it's hard because we had such good teams in St. Louis, won the President's Trophy, lost in the first round. It's weird because Larry Plough actually, we played, I think, Colorado at home. We were going into Philly the next day and Larry wanted to use something with myself and the daughter on the Jumbotron. And I kind of looked at him and he

goes, I know you're hearing your name being out there. We're not trading you. So I felt pretty good going to Philly that day. And Nick Kiprios actually called me and said, you know, what do you think of the trades? And we had got Keith Kachuk and Doug Waite. And I'm thinking, wow, we're really, we're going all in. And he said, so I mentioned those trades. And he said, no, I'm talking about your trade. I'm like, what? I didn't get traded. So he said, and it was like 310. So I didn't really understand.

I didn't know at the time there was a queue and how it worked. And so I literally was sitting there and Jamal Mayers was my roommate. And he's like, what did he say? I said, I don't know. He said I got traded. So we're quickly looking online. He's online looking. And I got a call from Larry to come up and see him and Joel in their suite. And when I got up there, yeah, I got the bad news. And, you know, my wife loved it. So,

you know, you call home and she's crying. The girls, the team was so close there in St. Louis that it was hard. I mean, I remember going down and sitting with Pronger and Al, and Al was good because Al was there. He's like, Craig, you're going to like it there. You know, I said, I don't want to go there. You know, I want to just stay with you guys. I don't want to, I want to try to make another run. And then, you know, I quickly had to leave, went, got my equipment and went in. We were playing in Columbus and then Detroit. And when we got to Detroit, my agent, Louis Gross came in and, you know, we had dinner after the game because I was going back to St. Louis to pick up my stuff. And,

and, you know, like anything, what we do is, what do you think? I'm like, I don't know. I'm like, he goes, okay, so maybe we don't want to be here. I said, yeah, maybe we don't want to be here. Like probably a bad attitude on my part. But when you look at the standings, they hadn't made the playoffs in a long time. And you just thought, I just wanted a chance to win a Stanley Cup. So fast forward, I got out here. Craig Button was amazing. You know, he really, you know, kind of explained what he thought I was going to do, what my role. And then Greg Gilbert, who I had in the minors for five games when I was in Worcester, he was now the coach because they made a coaching change with Don Hayes. So I thought, huh, this is, you know, he's like, Craig, I know you have way more offense in your, you know, than you showed in St. Louis.

You know, you did your job in St. Louis, but here you're going to get to play in the power play and stuff. And that kind of intrigued me, you know, as a player, you're always like, oh, I want to be on the power play. So I got to play with Val Bure. I played a ton. I was like, oh, this is, and I remember talking to Lewis right after and said, you know what? I think I want to sign here longer. Cause I had one more year than I was unrestricted or two years. And then I was unrestricted. So I said, you know what? I think I want to sign here longer because I had one more year than I was unrestricted or two years and then I was unrestricted. So I said, I wouldn't mind, you know, signing a little longer. So we ended up signing a three-year deal and Lewis still says, well, now you've been there forever, you know? So it's, that's kind of how it works. But yeah,

I did not want to come. And then I just didn't think we'd have a chance to win. And that's what shows you, you never know who's going to win, who't going to win in St. Louis I thought we were going to win and we didn't and you know in Calgary we were able to almost win you know disappointing we couldn't finish it off what do you remember most about that playoff run there were so many things that Jerome had the great shift in Tampa you know monador scoring the overtime it's there's there's all like little points where the fights that jerome had uh you know i think for me though because i was in the playoffs quite a bit and these guys were when we got to play detroit i was thinking oh boy because being in st louis we always got to detroit and it didn't go well

and you're looking at a hall of fame power play i mean you're not even looking at like oh boy, because being in St. Louis, we always got to Detroit and it didn't go well. And you're looking at a Hall of Fame power play. I mean, you're not even looking at like good players. You're looking at some of the best of all time. The guys were talking about winning and I thought, oh boy, I've never beaten the Detroit Red Wings in the playoff series. So I wasn't overly confident to be honest, but I didn't say anything. I just thought, okay, you know what? We have a gritty team. It's going to be hard. i didn't say anything i just thought okay you know what we have a gritty team it's going to be hard and when we won game one i thought well maybe we have a chance here and then game two they really really took it to us and that power pillar came alive and you know daryl was great daryl came in and said who wants autographs because obviously we're just

here as fans and we want autographs and out of nowhere Rhett Warner said well if you're getting autographs I'll take a Nick Lidstrom Daryl wasn't very happy but it broke the ice and it got us back on track doing all those years of radio with Rhett Warner I'm not surprised in the least bit like did you guys think that Warner was about to get, like, just incinerated in that moment? Like, what did everybody else do? Everyone stopped breathing. And Darryl was so mad. And he was, like, going to explode.

And then he kind of said some nice words and left. And then we all broke into laughter. So it really is probably what we needed. We needed a little bit of, you know, okay, take a deep breath. And, you know, they're an amazing team. You know, that power play, whether it was, you know, okay, take a deep breath. And, you know, they're an amazing team. You know, that power play, whether it was, you know, Lindstrom at the point, you got Shanahan, Iserman, Federoff, Brad Hull. I mean, it is what it is, you know.

So to really think about it, you're like, wow, to be able to beat those guys, when we beat them in game six back home, I actually thought we were going to win the Stanley Cup right there. I said, oh, whatever doubts I might have had in my mind, they evaporated right away. That was a fun team to watch. Definitely, it sounds like it was a close-knit bunch. I just remember, like we all do, watching that run,

and you mentioned Aguinla and the fights, but that was a really cool team to watch play. And, you know, one of the, and we probably don't talk about them enough now that I really think about it. Um,

I think we've forgotten just how great Mika Kiprasov was as far as being an end. Like every time I see a goaltender make the scorpion save, I always think Kiprasov, you know, there's, there's so many moments where I'm like, you know,

we probably don't talk about Kipra's life. What was he like to have as a teammate? You know what? I've been so fortunate to play with Grant Fuhrer, with Mike Vernon, with Patrick Waugh, and to kind of see Kipra come in as a young guy, and I didn't know what to expect. I mean, he was a third goalie in San Jose.

Yeah. But his demeanor, right away, you just, nothing rattled him, nothing bothered him. You know, you'd sit there, and he could give up eight goals. If he gave up five, six goals one game, you knew he was going to come back with a great game the next game. And some of the saves and the way his demeanor is in the locker room, you never knew if we were winning by five, we were losing by five.

He never got rattled. He never complained about his D or four words, or we made a mistake. You know, he just went about his business. And my favorite was he used to sit there and talk in the locker room. And then, you know, obviously in the Canadian market, lots of media, and then they would walk in. He's like, no English, no English. I'm like, I just would start laughing. I mean, he's like, he tried to use that for about five years though. So I'm like, come on, Kipper. Who do you keep in touch with, Craig, from that team?

Because you were obviously a very popular teammate. Who do you keep in contact with? You know what? It's one where you just, when you see those guys, it just instantly comes back. If you ran into Oliwa, we were in Traverse City one year and you see Oliwa and, you know, the Monadors and we were just out

at Jerome's Hall of Fame and see the Cobasus and, you know, it's weird because everyone's so busy and everyone's going. But when you see that group of guys, you know, whether it's Sean Donovan when we're in Ottawa or, it comes right back, you know,

Chris Clark and I live maybe a mile in the summer from each other. So we see each other quite a bit. You know, I think obviously Jerome and, you know, the one guy I don't even think I can find, to be honest, is Kipper. You know, when I, Noodles talks to Kipper, but I think Noodles is the only one that actually knows what Kipper's doing. It's like he's just banished, but I would love to have, I'd love to see Kipper. I know he came back and I was on the road when he came back. I would love to see Kipper again. What was the, what was the transition like from, from, from player to management for

you? Because it, it, I mean, from our approach, it seemed kind of seamless and natural, but listen, you're, you're involved in it. I'm sure there was some hiccups and some bumps along the way as you're learning a new part of the industry. How was it for you? You know, I think it was because it was during the middle of the year, it was a little bit awkward at times. I thought it was, I would walk through the room. I wouldn't say anything. I wouldn't talk to anybody. I just kind of went in, saw the coaches, went to see the trainers. And then one day it was just Jerome was sitting in the locker room by himself and he goes, hey,

you need to act like yourself. You know, you're kind of acting like not Daryl, but well, I said, I don't know what's appropriate. Like, should I talk to you guys? They're like, absolutely. Like, we're still friends. You know, we're all in this together. You're just not on the ice anymore. So I think ever since then, that kind of made me feel like, okay, you know what? I can still come down and, you know, he'll say, what did you think of this or that? Or did you see something?

And easy from upstairs. So I think my relationship, I'm very, you know, easy to talk to. I've been through pretty much everything that these guys have gone through, playing in the minors, putting on waivers. You know, there isn't many things I retire, you know, I've been on the first line, the fourth line, so I can relate to the guys, you know, pretty much every guy. I've been on the first power play. I've been a top guy on the team, but I've also been a guy that's been healthy scratch for long periods of time. So I think all those things let me relate to the guys really well down there.

But it was hard to start, and then it got smoother now. You know, one of the things I remember Tim Taylor telling me when he retired and he went into management, he said the biggest, most jarring thing for him was the way management talks about the players. And he was like, wait a sec, did you guys talk about me like that? It's unbelievable. It's, you know what? And they always say, you know, like Chris Snow will be like, I'll come out of there. They're like, you're still a player. You're still on the player side.

I'm like, somebody's got to stick up for these guys. It's, you know, because do you think they wanted to make that sauce pass through the middle, get picked off and scored? No. You know, do you get mad at them a little bit? But it was unbelievable to hear how they talk about players and how hard they are. Actually, the funny thing is Jay Feaster was the GM

here. They actually erased all the stuff on RingNet so I couldn't go in to see what people wrote about me because they're like... They said you wouldn't like, I was old. I was 39.

I knew it was coming to an end. So I think I took a beating the last year or so. Oh my God. That's fantastic. Well, you know, Craig, like, you know, you've been now, it's been almost 11 years. Like I forgot you retired in February of 2011 and you've been in the front office there. You know, do you think about being a manager one day? Is that something that you would want to do?

You know, I think that's always, as a player, you want to play in the NHL. You know, on this side, your competitive juices, you always want to be that guy. You know, Brian would always say, Connie, do you want to sit on the bus and ride it or do you want to drive the bus? And I think in the end, you always want to do it. But what it takes is for us to have success, you know, and do well. And that's where, you know, I think my first goal is to win a Stanley Cup here. And if we could do that, oh, that would, you know, other than playing, there'd be no better feeling for me. And this city deserves it as much as probably everybody's going to say

that. But, you know, in the end, I think the goal is always you want to prove to people, you know, I proved that I could play in the NHL. No one thought I could do that. You know, you always want to, you know, I think watching Marty St. Louis, how he's doing in Montreal, and it's that competitive fire, you know, you see it in him. And, you know, I believe on this side, it's always a goal to be the guy to make those decisions. And just how much have you seen the job evolve in the last 10 years? I look at use of statistics. That's clearly more accepted now. The new generation of player, there's obviously a big change between what the league looked like 10 years ago and what the league looks like now. How much have you seen it evolve?

The game's gotten so much faster and more exciting. I mean, the young guys, smaller players, obviously a guy like Johnny Gaudreau can have unbelievable success now. You know, you think back, you know, in the 90s and early 2000s, the hooking and holding, and Brett Hall used to say it all the time, you know, we have such great players, but we don't let them play. We don't let them show off what they can do. I mean, the Pavel Beres, the hooking,

the way Jerome used to, he'd get mugged by four guys going to the net, hatchers grabbing them. And, you know, I think that's a huge thing. The way the game, the skating, the skill level, like what Zegers is doing, it's amazing. And I think it's only gotten better. But I think on the, you know, on the management side, the way we, we use analytics, you know, I'm still a little bit old school. I love the

analytics. I love going through the things, but with the analytics, I always say the numbers are what the numbers are. So if guys having a great year, it's the eye test and the scouts need to say, okay, is this guy trending up, trending down before the numbers pop? We got to kind of figure guys out. Not so much in the draft, but you know, in the NHL, you have to say, okay, is this guy trending this way before his numbers pop? We got to get on him, you know? And I think that's a, it's a combination of everything now. It's not just one thing. It's, it thing. It's a whole bunch of things put together. You know, one of the ways, I remember Brian Burke mentioned this to me once.

We were talking about, you know, eye test versus analytics. And he said the way that he looked at it is this. You identify initially with your eyes and then you go to the numbers to see if your eyes are lying to you or not. Does that resonate with you? True. True. But I also think sometimes there's so many players and there's so many guys out there that, you know, you only have X amount of scouts. So they're only at X amount of games.

The data is at every game. The data is at every game. So if there is a guy that is off the charts, then we can identify and say, okay, now we've got to get in there. And it's a give and take. We go back and forth with the eye. Sometimes it can lead us in the direction to find that player. And then the same thing with Brian saying it could go the other way also.

But for me, I love when they both line up together, and that gives you a good feel. Okay, this is a guy we want. And the other thing is character. I mean, a lot of times, you know, we look at a guy like Mangia Paney and, you know, Terry Dorn, our scout, was pushing, pushing, pushing. You know, we got to draft this guy. We got to draft him. And then finally we took him.

to we got to draft this guy we got to draft and then finally we took him and it's just it's all the intangibles maybe that even the analytics and the eye test for some of us that don't see him as much but for terry seem as much as he could to just say we gotta have that guy you know the same thing when adam fox i remember jim cummins said day one first meeting we get to put a star on a player and he says i want this player he's special you know so you know and then we track them all year and we end up making a good pick obviously we didn't get them but in the third round but i think it's that kind of common you know combination of analytics all our scouts management watching you know it's it's really uh kind of a group thing it's it's never just one guy making a decision for sure it's a it's a great story you know it's funny you said

you like the tough guys so we've luchich you went to school with nylon and jay miller and jim cummins is the scout who talked up adam fox and And Jim Cummins, that was another tough guy. Tough, yeah. Elliot, when I was in the minors, you remember Chris Murray? Yes. Yes. I remember Chris, of course. Mary Roberge, Donald Brashear.

Is this Fredericton? In Fredericton, yeah. Okay, yeah. That team was tough. Oh, boy. Oh, we had the toughest team I've ever seen. And that's when you didn't even have four lines of forwards. Okay, yeah, that team was tough. Oh, boy. We had the toughest team I've ever seen. And that's when you didn't even have four lines of forwards.

So when you had all those guys together, Jerry Fleming was there, and Jerry was a big man. I mean, so we had five to seven guys that on any given night, I was like, holy cow. And then I got to go to St. Louis, and we had Tony Twist and Rudy Pochek and Kelly Chase. And I've always had tough guys, you know, always. And Chris Simon when we were here in Calgary. And, you know, I know it's not part of the game.

You know, it's not as big a part of the game. But if you ask any player, they love toughness. Even Jerome McGinley, who's as tough as anybody, he always would say, you can never have enough tough guys, Greg. And it's just part of the game. And I think when Gabranson came in, I don't know if it was a preseason game, our very first one, and Connor Mackey, I forget who he hit now, but it looked like whoever he hit was coming after him, and Gabranson got right in there. And I thought, oh, this is a good teammate right here. I mean, in an exhibition game, sticking up for us, your first, you know, I think it was the first period,

I'm thinking, oh, that really kind of put Gabranson on a different level for me right from the start of camp. All right, here's my last one for you, Craig. Earlier in the conversation, you mentioned your agent, Louis Gross. Yes. Now, Louis Gross also represents a certain free agent forward from the Calgary Flames. Do you ever pull Louis aside and say, enough with this garbage, get this done? well i mean i'd be crazy you know brad said it heaven and earth you know and after hours but yep it's special you know and i do think having a relationship definitely makes it easier is it going to make it that much easier i don't know you know they both sides kind of you know talking to johnny and they just wanted to, you know, get through the season and get through it and then go from there.

But the one thing I know about John, he loves what he loves. He doesn't like change. He, you know, my thing is he loves records, you know, and he loves all that kind of stuff. And he wants to be the best at all times. I mean, the one thing when Bob Hartley was here, he asked me, Craig, who do you think the most competitive person on the bench is? And I think I went through a couple names. This was John's first year, and I said, you know, Mark Giordano.

I went through it. He goes, Gaudreau hates to lose. I'm like, really? I can't, you know, be enough in the press box. You don't get that sense. So the competitors are firing him and him always wanting to be the best, you know, that's where we're hoping he's grown up here. He's been a part of it. And, uh, you know,

that's why we want to get this thing done and, and get them back here long-term. Uh, if he, if he likes records that much, you tell him, uh, Johnny, you can only leave when you break Kent Nielsen's record of 131 points with the Calgary Flames. Until then, you're a flame. That's amazing. Well, my good friend Al McInnes has got the assist here. So I'm like, one day, hopefully Johnny can break the... I'm like, it's weird to have the assist be a defenseman, but that's just showing you how good Al was. Yep, absolutely. This has been a lot of fun and you've been really generous with your time. Craig, thanks so much.

Listen, playoffs on the horizon. Best of luck to the Calgary Flames. Big things. Big things coming for this team. That's no surprise for anyone that's watched them regularly this season. Craig, thanks so much for stopping by today.

Thanks for having me, guys. Really appreciate it. Elliot, that was really great. I want to thank Craig Conroy, Assistant General Manager of the Calgary Flames, for stopping by the podcast. Okay, we're going to stay in Alberta as we say goodbye. Elliot taking us out is a group of recent law graduates out of Calgary

who wrote tunes during the last couple of years of school. From their self-titled four-track EP, here's Dim Summer with Pool Boy. 32 Thoughts to Podcast. It's a rhythm of bass, man It feeds you like chorus in your lungs Last road to summer, feel me When the night comes Just gonna catch you catch you