32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Live From Chicago, It’s 32 Thoughts

Episode Date: December 30, 2024

In this edition of 32 Thoughts, Kyle Bukauskas and Elliotte Friedman set up Tuesday's Winter Classic at Wrigley Field in Chicago. Afterwards, they delve into the Dallas Stars potential punishment for informally skating on Boxing Day (14:40), before unpacking the firing of Derek Lalonde in Detroit (23:27). Elliotte touches on the home-and-home between the Hurricanes and Devils, while also highlighting the Washington Capitals' success (34:13). Kyle and Elliotte also take time to talk about Peter Laviolette landing on the hot-seat in New York (39:04). The fellas give Jakub Dobes of the Canadiens his flowers after a shutout in his first career start (45:30). Elliotte hones in on Ty Emberson and Edmonton trying to get an extension done after January 1st (54:00) and he also breaks his one-month ban on talking about the Canucks to weigh in on their injury troubles with Pettersson and Hughes (55:08). Kyle and Elliotte talk about the players that are stepping up for the Ottawa Senators amid their injuries woes (57:57). The Final Thought focuses on the World Juniors and Latvia's historic win over Canada and the fall out (1:03:23). Kyle and Elliotte answer your questions and respond to your voicemails in the Thought Line (1:12:40).In the final segment, Kyle and Elliotte sit down with Chicago Blackhawks GM Kyle Davidson (1:25:23) before wrapping the podcast with broadcast legend Darren Pang (2:25:13).Kelly Hrudey in Reading Rainbow (https://youtu.be/elI4kf9JxqU?si=1ttzVGomfPL-_aFO)Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailThis podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates

So sure enough, getting ready for it at Bush Stadium, I take off my glasses, put on my mask, and I'm in the net, really focusing hard because I'm squinting. I'm like, all right. And Gretz has a breakaway and he hits me right in the chest. And he's yelling at me. I'm like, he hit me in the chest. Like, what am I supposed to do? I got a picture of it. It's the funniest thing ever. He's like, you shouldn't stop me. I'm like, stop you? I didn't do anything. How can you miss the net? You shot it right at the crest. I'm 5'4 1⁄2".

I can't see. I got no glasses on. You hit me right in the chest. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented by the GMC Sierra AT4X. Shramati, Bukaskis, Friedman, all with you. We are back from our holiday slumber. Best wishes to those still celebrating Hanukkah. Elliot, how was your break?

It was excellent. I would recommend everybody see the Bob Dylan movie. Yes. This is part of your Jewish Christmas festivities. It was definitely, yes, part of that. It's a great movie. Timothee Chalamet could win an Oscar for his performance as Bob Dylan. It's not really much of a plot, but if you like the music, it's phenomenal.

And it was great entertainment. Good way to spend two and a half hours. Bob Dylan movie. Did you get anything good for Christmas? So this is what we did this year. We did, outside of stocking stuffers, no gifts, but we went all in on quality food in the time that my family was in town. So we did high-quality steaks one night, lobster Christmas Eve,

and a very, very good bird Christmas Day. That's where the funds went, and some good drinks as well. I am surprised I didn't see you at 270 pounds. No, I got a lot. Well, I had to mix in some steps and the outdoor rink was buzzing too nearby the house. So my brother and Dana and I got out there for a little bit. That saved us. Otherwise, you would have had to roll me onto the plane this morning.

Butter you, grease you through the plane doors. Excuse me. Let's put on the Crisco so Kyle can get through. morning. Butter you through a greasy through the plane doors. Excuse me. Let's put on the Crisco so Kyle can get through. All right. Greasy starts. That's how we like it. We are actually in Chicago, specifically the depths of the United center because the 2025 winter classic that will be played on the final day of 2024 coming up on Tuesday. We are here for that.

So we've got an interview coming up with the general manager of Chicago, Kyle Davidson. We spent some time with him on Sunday. Darren Pang as well, the legendary broadcaster colleague, former teammate of ours at Sportsnet, and we'll catch up with him too. The Blackhawks played Sunday night hosting the Dallas Stars. We'll get into all that a little bit later. But the outdoor game, how many of these have you done? Like you did almost every one for the first little while. Yes. So I counted, I think I did the first 18.

Wow. So the first 18 outdoor games, starting with, I would start it with the, with the big one in Edmonton, Oilers, uh, Canadians. Uh, I actually went through this a couple of years ago. I believe it was the first 18 I did and then I started missing them because I moved into the studio I think overall now I think I've been to close to 25 of them golly and the what the thing I'll say is and I know like I know what a lot of fans out there are thinking and that you know that's it's been done it's you've seen it before i get i get all that but i'll tell you this first of all i think every market should get one um because when you actually go to them you have a great time you get caught up in the enthusiasm people have their people

love it the people on the ground love it. Every time I come to one of these games, even if I'm feeling a little bit jaded and I'm thinking to myself, eh, I've seen this before, I really love it by the time I get there. You know, one of the ones I watched on TV I thought was a great one was the one in Dallas

when Nashville was there. I remember a lot of people were like, why are we doing an outdoor game Nashville-Dallas? But you saw the pig races and the Corey Perry walk of shame when he got kicked out of the game. And remember, you get into it. And I have no doubt that we will get into this one when we're there. And, you know, I mean, next year we'll see.

All eyes are on Florida. We know they're getting an outdoor game. We'll see if it's this one. But I think I would like to see every market get one. And I think the, you know, like I know that some people didn't like Lake Tahoe. I love the idea. Even if it didn't work 100%, I love the idea. I would love to see them take this one global.

I was talking today with Peter Morazic briefly about it, putting in a famed soccer stadium. And I got to wonder if they're going to think about this kind of a thing. You know, Corey Massasack, who covers the Avalanche, he wondered the other day if they should give Crosby and Ovechkin another one, like a goodbye one. And I thought it was an interesting idea. So once again, the moment I get in there

and I start to get into outdoor game mode, I know we're going to have a great time. By the way, Mrazek said to me that this is going to be his fifth outdoor game, but he doesn't know if he's starting. He's not playing Sunday night against Dallas, so I kind of wondered if that meant he would get the outdoor game. He said he didn't know, but it would be his fifth one.

He started two and he's backed up two, and I kind of wondered if that made him the number one goalie, and the only other guy I thought of was Ty Conklin, who I think played in like four of them. He's played in three. He's played in three? Yes, including the last one here at Wrigley with Detroit. Right.

Yes, because I remember Ty Conklin was on a streak of, if you acquired Ty Conklin, you were playing in an outdoor game. Yeah, right. No, there's actually two goalies that have appeared in four, like they've played in four. Played in four? Yes. Well, I mean, the one that comes to my head off the top

simply because of how often the team was there would be Corey Crawford. He is one. All right. Get the trivia out of the way early. Yeah, get the trivia. People love the trivia. They love hearing me squirm and struggle.

So if it's not cory cross so in addition to cory graham there's another one that's four starts was it henrik lundqvist yes yes sir he's probably gonna be here with tnt yes correct i am hot christmas is over, but I am still hot. Crisco for me, ice cubes for you. Got to cool you down. Do you have any guesses what skaters appeared in the most? There's one guy that has played in seven of them. Seven of them?

Yes. Would it be Marion Hossa? It would not. Okay. Now, there's a lot of Chicago players that played in six. And also, Hossa, I was thinking, might have played on one with some of the other teams that he played for, too,

because he played in Pittsburgh, he played in Detroit, although I can't remember how often those teams would have played. So was the guy who was seven, is he a Chicago guy or no? Nope. Really? Thank you for that, because I would have guessed, I would have gone down the Chicago roster. Seven outdoor games.

Host has only played in three. Boy, that was a terrible guess then. Here I thought I had such a good guess and it was a terrible guess. Okay. Seven outdoor games. And he didn't play for Chicago? No. Oh, boy.

Okay. It's not Jagger, is it? No. Give me a hint. Green mouth guard. It doesn't help me. Not satisfactory? No.

I was thinking, give me some teams. Philadelphia? No, I don't think it would be him. Who's the him you're thinking? Scott Hartnell. No. Okay, I'll give you the other team, Toronto. Van Riemsdyk?

Correct. Really? He's played in seven. I'm embarrassed I didn't remember he wore a green mouth guard. He still does, to his minor hockey hockey roots and green tape on his stick. I remember the green tape on the stick. I should have guessed that. That's terrible.

He was even on the pod. Jeff probably asked him that because that's kind of a nerdy question that Jeff would ask. That's right. You probably tuned out. That's why you missed it. That never happens. Wow.

You know, I never would have realized that. Yes. That he played in seven. Which kind of makes sense, though, because Toronto had a handful there during the time. Toronto played in two, right? Well, there was, remember the one of the Naval Academy? That's kind of almost a forgotten one.

Oh, you know what? I forgot. Against Washington. And that's right. You know what? You know what? That's right. I forgot about the Naval Academy one.

I mean, we're in the Windy City, but remember the win that that weekend they couldn't even have the practice i gotta tell you so that one in that was the one outdoor game that one which was a which was a real highlight for me to be there the naval academy but that was the one i didn't bring a good enough jacket yes because it was was it not the beginning of march yes and we all got tricked and i i remember like that that's the one outdoor game where i think i ended up with hypothermia when it was over i was freezing freezing right as there was a power outage in the third period that delayed the and you know anyway i i all uh all apologies i i apologize for my disrespect to the Van Riemsdyk clan, not thinking that it was him.

Okay, there we go. Well, I'm looking forward to it. Yes, Blackhawks Blues on Tuesday. And also on Sunday night, we attended the Blackhawks game against Dallas. Tough loss for Chicago, 5-1. Two tough results coming out of the holiday break for them. Not an ideal way of going into the winter classic

at Wrigley Field. But instead of hashing what went on in the game you wanted to highlight the in-house crew at the United Center Sunday night so Tyler Bertuzzi got ejected in this game for an elbow to Colin Blackwell but that was not the most savage thing that occurred in the building in the week between Christmas and New Year's the Blackhawks in-game promotions team chose violence and I have to say the crowd loved it and I was laughing pretty hard too so the first thing they do is they play one of those games that's um it's like higher lower if you're playing with a deck of cards, right? But it's with roster numbers for the Blackhawks. So the first number that comes up, okay, is Ilya Mikheyev,

and he's number 95, okay? So the next thing you're supposed to do is pick, you think the next jersey number is going to be higher or lower yeah well of course it's 95 you're gonna pick lower like anybody is going to pick lower and can i interject remember at the start of it the in arena host said and remember fans this is a local minor hockey coach so let's really cheer them on that's right that's right they did so that so you're like okay this person's. You figure it's set up and he's going to win. So he goes lower than McKay is 95. Guess who comes up? Yeah. Connor Bedard, 98. So it starts laughing and the press box starts laughing. Like everybody's laughing. And this poor guy, like, yes, as you said, come come on it's a local high school coach so i'll credit the host she says you know what if you get the next three you'll win the autographed jersey like it's an autographed jersey so they went and then so obviously like there's no chance of it being

higher than bedard so he goes lower and then 14 comes up yeah and they made him sweat it out like the next two numbers were 15 and 60 like this was a gruesome game right to win like you figure over the holidays everything's gonna be you're gonna go you're gonna go 95 you're gonna go two you're gonna go i don't know pick teravina 86 who's 86, then Dickinson who's 16, then somebody right in the middle, like Hall, like 71. Like you think you're going to make it really? No, no.

So the crowd loved this. And the guy won the prize. Never was happy. But you could tell they really loved it. But then they did a lookalike game later. And this was the topper. So they put up Pharreiams and there was somebody you know you could say yes kind of past looking a bit like pharaoh williams they put up leonel

missy there was someone who yeah okay you could say they kind of looked like leonel missy they put up simone biles they put up an attractive woman in the crowd you could tell yeah okay i'll give you this one then they put up up Ice Spice. This one just caught me. I just was not expecting it. So they put up Ice Spice and then they cut the camera to some teenage boy in the crowd with curly blonde hair.

And again, and you can see the kid, he was like, oh my God. He was laughing, but he was shocked and the crowd just died. I said to myself, this is definitely not what I was expecting when I came into this building tonight, but it was hilarious.

People loved it. They really loved it. Yes. And what would have been the low point of the night after Matt Duchesne made it 5-1, they just started cutting from fan shot, fan shot, fan shot on the video board. And then right at the end, there's a gentleman sitting next to, I don't know if it was girlfriend, wife, sister, friend, whoever. But he goes to offer her some of his soft serve ice cream and she doesn't realize and is looking off somewhere and then just moves her hand and knocks the ice cream out of the guy's hand the

ice cream goes there and the crowd reacted to that to the point where at the next commercial break they said let's show you the instant replay of the ice cream from a few minutes back and they played it back in like supermo so everyone could see the ice cream being knocked out of their hands and it summed up what was you know a tough night again for the Blackhawks, but at least the crowd could have a laugh about it. A savage night for the Blackhawks game ops crew. Yes. Savage in that building. And our hearts were as broken as any seeing good ice cream

go to waste there. You cannot waste good ice cream. All right, so let's talk about Dallas. So almost coincidentally, they're here in Chicago on Sunday. It was like walking down the gauntlet past their hallway Sunday morning as we came to the rink for the morning skate. Elliot, as you had reported, it was in the Athletico as well of this informal skate on Boxing Day. Now the NHL has some very strict rules about no activity between December 24th

and the 26th. So where do things stand with how the league feels about what happened and what the fallout of all of this will be? You know, it's, it's interesting about that is that there are some people who are like, this is a hilarious story. And there are people who are like, this is a really stupid story. Like, why is this a big deal at all? Like I had some people say that to me and what's, and it really goes back to a few years ago, um, the Maple Leafs traveled to St. Louis. And initially I'll tell you something

kind of funny, Kyle, is that when I heard that there was an issue around Dallas, Minnesota, I actually thought it was going to be Minnesota because they had to fly three hours to Dallas. And that's a long flight for post-Christmas. Because you are not allowed to fly until the date of the 27th, the NHL has really tried over the years to limit the flight on that day. Now, it doesn't always work. There was a few years ago when Patrick Watt was coaching Colorado, they had to fly to Chicago. And I think that was about two and a half hours, close to three hours. And they asked for permission to fly early and they were

told no, and they were furious and they got killed. That Toronto St. Louis flight is a little over, is over two hours, and there's been other ones over the years where it's closer to three hours or two and a half, three hours, where teams have said, can we go early? And it's always no. As a matter of fact, in that Toronto situation, Dubas went to the players and said, what if we leave a couple hours early?

And the players said yes. And I remember I checked it. The players told me they said yes. But the union said, we don't care. We negotiate for these rules, and we fight hard to get these protections. And one of the sideline stories to all this is, you know, the NBA had big numbers. They were very happy with their numbers on Christmas Day. And the NFL had massive numbers on Christmas Day.

The NFL's king. Nobody beats it right now. And people always ask, well, why doesn't the NHL play on Christmas Day too? Because obviously the interest is there for it. And when they negotiated the CBA in 2012-13 and that lockout, the NHL put Christmas games on the table or it was either Christmas Day or Boxing Day, like one of those two.

I think it was Christmas Day. I think they put it on the table and the players voted overwhelmingly no. They wanted the holiday with their families. I remember they told me that. The league said we could probably do pretty well on these, and the player feedback was like it wasn't like 52-48. It was like 90-10.

We don't want that. And we'll see if that changes over time. So as a result, there's very strict rules about what you can and can't do on the 24th, the 25th, and the 26th. And I think it was, I don't know what day it was, the 22nd or the 23rd, they sent out a memo reminding everybody of what you can and can't do. So, you know, like I know there's some people

who think this isn't a big deal, and that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But I know the league and the Players Association feel you have to protect these dates. And, you know, what one guy said to me was, when you send out that memo and it kind of happens, it's almost as if the league feels like you're sticking a finger in their eye. And so probably I have no doubt that Minnesota was mad

because they can't practice the day before and they got to travel three hours. And there was this informal practice. And really what the memo says is, there can be no informal or optional practice. You cannot even provide the players with ice. And there was a coach on the ice here too. So, you know, Philadelphia got fined about a decade ago, $100,000 for flying early. Toronto got fined $100,000 for that St. Louis one.

And we're still waiting for the exact announcement here. But we're expecting they're going to get fined. So just in talking to some people on Sunday, Kyle, too, a couple things people were saying was that, number one, and I don't know where this is going to go, but there were some rumors going around that not only would the team maybe get fined, but DeBoer might face some kind of personal penalty. Oh, wow.

Like it might go, I don't know if that's going to happen, but that was one of the things that people were kind of talking about or wondering about. And the other thing a couple people said to me was, the thing that really surprised them is DeBoer is known for giving a lot of time off. The thing that really surprised them is DeBoer is known for giving a lot of time off. Dallas is one of those places where they're kind of alone out there on the map, so they do a lot of travel. The teams that kind of have the worst travel are the two Florida teams,

Winnipeg, in Canada, the Northwest team's up there, but Dallas is pretty remote too compared to almost everybody else. So he is known for giving them a lot of downtime because of the demand, the travel schedule. But, you know, we'll see where it all plays out. There was one player who also said to me that he thinks that their team got fined once for an illegal practice, but he couldn't remember and I couldn't find it. So I was like, OK, but like I'll tell you this, like people who think that it's it's it's not a big deal. Like I said, that's fine. But I know the league and the players union feels it's a very big deal.

union feels it's a very big deal and i would suspect that one of the reasons the players union would find this a big deal was because of like you know the young players feeling they're pressured that they have to go to it or it's expected of them they would want to protect the young players from feeling that way so was this maybe a case then of begging for forgiveness than asking for permission? They had to have known that in some way, if they were going to go about trying to do this, that it was going to get out, especially with the memo going out just days prior.

Well, I think also too is, to be honest, I don't know if it would have been an issue if the coach wasn't on the ice like i know technically you're not allowed to uh provide the players with ice but if players want to show up and just skate i don't think you can stop them from that like that's what someone said to me was one of the key issues here was there was a coach on the ice um if uh if there hadn't been one um i don't know like one of the reasons this got caught was because peter deborah talked about it and um and it got posted so people found it right and um and i think the wild got wind of it so because of their

because they were the road team they got upset and. And I said to somebody, what if the players just simply wanted to skate? And they said gray area, but the issue was the coach was there. So that's what led to all of this. Gotcha. Well, whatever anger Minnesota had on Friday, clearly they channeled it the right way with the way they flipped that game around and won in overtime. Well, I couldn't believe that. I thought they channeled it the right way with the way they flipped that game around and won in overtime. Well, I couldn't believe that. I thought, you know, they didn't have Kaprizov.

Right. They didn't have Eriksson Ek. It's 2-0 with what, five minutes to go and they win the game in overtime? Yes. Heck of a goal by Faber in overtime, too. Wow. I mean, good weekend for late comeback entertainment unless you were Dallas or Vancouver. Right. comeback entertainment unless you were Dallas or Vancouver. How you doing over there, Dom?

But, you know, I mean, I still think this Dallas team is really good and I still think they're going to add. But I was shocked when they lost that game. And there was some good hockey kind of right out of the gate coming out of the – By the way, I would like Sportsnet to be fined $100,000 for making me work on the 27th. Can we get that done? Yes.

Oh, I was surprised. You got everything else in your contract. I'm surprised that one slips through the cracks. You were just lamenting the fact that you go, well, there's going to be a much better game Saturday the whole time you were on the air that day. Well, we might as well just talk about Lalonde now. Okay.

Yeah, great. This is a good way to set it up. So, you know, it was, I mean, it was wild. I mean, you know, people were wondering if Lalonde was fired before Christmas. No, that did not happen. It was Boxing Day. It was, it was boxing day. And, um, like literally I think I got wind of it like two minutes before it was tweeted.

You know, Iserman, he's a lockbox man. Like he, you know, not much gets out there. I think there was a report that the players didn't even know, which happens sometimes, but rarely. Um, but you know, I, he know, he does it his way and he keeps things locked down. But, you know, the thing he talked about in his media conference, and I knew exactly what he was talking about

was the lack of spirit, right? Yeah, that was the word that kept coming up. And I think I've mentioned this before, like that's Berkey's theory too. Like he always told me that when your team doesn't push back repeatedly, it's not just a one-off you're going to have one-offs, but when they don't push back repeatedly, that's when you know it's time.

And clearly, um, you know, while I wouldn't say that Eisenman got that from Burke, although Berkey might claim he did, it's clear that they subscribe to the same philosophy. And I wasn't surprised it was McClellan. As I'd mentioned before, I do think that Iserman at least thought about the possibility of Montgomery when he was available.

and you know what's what's interesting about that is that if you look at mcclellan's history he's like in la they were angry about the 131 right yeah but la isn't where they are right now and they're having a really strong year i think a year that a lot of us weren't expecting. I don't think they're there without the 1-3-1 that he taught them. I think what McClellan's really good at doing, and he did it. Well, San Jose was already a great team before he got there, but he had success with them but couldn't take them over the top. But if you look at Edmonton, he was the first one to get the McDavid group into the playoffs.

And if you look at L.A., he took a team that was not a very good team when he got there, and he put the structure into it. I totally understand why Iserman went to him. He's saying that we need more structure and we and he will do that that's what Todd McClellan does and Kyle big comeback for them against Washington oh yeah on on Sunday like Washington's a good team and we'll talk about them a little bit in a bit but you know that game against Toronto if you saw those highlights from their day off of practice on Saturday when McClellan was yelling at them like just play hockey like we talked about

McClellan's structure and you're not going to be able to put the structure in that quickly but I would have felt that even if he didn't have time to practice with them like just the coaching change the jolt that it should give you. I thought they would have come out against Toronto and just been renewed or energetic in some way. And they were flat and they got dominated. Like if I was Steve Iserman, I would have been just, I don't know if I would say panicked, but I would have been incredibly discouraged to see the way they played against Toronto and then you know they made up for it they looked much much better on Sunday they they

really like it wasn't one of those games where you the ice is tilted and the deserve to win a meter is 95 Washington and you win the game they were they battled with Washington all the way. And actually, I was surprised that that wasn't the effort we got on Friday, but better late than never, I guess. Yeah, and I just watched the end of that game against the Capitals, so they had the power play with about 90 seconds to go. They had a two-goal lead, did the Red Wings there, but with the four guys on the ice, like you can tell,

I don't know if maybe one got through to Alex Lyon. It was just whatever necessary, get a body in front of a shot to preserve that lead. So if you're looking for a spark of any kind, if you're a member of the Red Wings, maybe how they closed out against Washington gives you a little bit of hope. They needed that because the way they came out against Toronto, like I said, that was discouraging,

discouraging to watch. So you hope for Detroit's sake that Sunday will be the norm more than Friday was. You know, I thought Lalonde, I thought he went out, he released a statement to us. You know, I spoke to him briefly. He wanted to be very careful. He wanted to go out the right way.

But the one thing that was in the brief that we talked is he is very complimentary of their young players. And not only the ones that are there, but the ones are coming. Like he mentioned guys like Danielson who are closer, but not there yet. And he feels that that team will be a good one. You know, I think, you know, I was talking to some other people about it, like, you know, Iserman is a process guy

that he believes he has a process, and from what I can see, that process is you draft and you develop and those are your cornerstone players and you plug them in as they are ready and you buttress them with free agents to get you through the short term and and I think I read it right. And Kyle, if I am right, and someone will let me know if I'm wrong, but if I am right, that's a really long process. Like if you look at Iserman, and that's why I'm really curious about what this Buffalo-Detroit thing may or may not turn out to be,

but Iserman doesn't swing for the fences in huge trades. He builds. doesn't swing for the fences in huge trades he builds he prefers to build quietly and slowly and methodically because he thinks it's the right way and like the one thing that people tell me about him is that um you can never question his work ethic he grinds like he really grinds but i think what the and you could saw in the in the press conference he he did get really frustrated a couple of times that's what i wanted to ask about like because as i'm watching that you think everything up until that point it's part of the process part of his plan and that was the first time where he almost looked a little bit frazzled for a guy who's not typically one that gets frazzled and i just wonder if that was the first time where he almost looked a little bit frazzled for a guy who's not typically one that gets frazzled.

And I just wonder if that was the moment where it was like, okay, shoot, this was our part of the plan, and where do we go from here? Well, I think it's because you're questioning, I think why he, first of all, his point was like, everybody's going after these players, right? And what that says to me is that he took some swings and he didn't get guys or he tried to trade for guys and he didn't get guys like i think detroit was one of the teams

that tried to sign stamkos for example and you know obviously didn't get him he went to nashville and i would bet that um you know he like when when you sign Tarasenko to a two-year deal into free agency like they did that says to me like that's not no offense to Tarasenko I'm not trying to assault anybody here but that's not your first plan right like that says to me that you had an opening you felt you needed to address and the other things you tried didn't work, right? Gotcha. So when he comes out and he says, well, everybody's going after the same players,

that said to me he did try things and he couldn't land them. And right now, like Detroit's not a destination. Like there was a time it was. Marian Hossa went there for a year to win a Stanley Cup. They won a Stanley Cup with a team that had 10 Hall of Famers on it. Like Luke Robitaille. It was a destination. People wanted to go there.

And eventually, there's no reason it can't be again. But right now, it's not there. So his core philosophy is you build slowly and painstakingly through the draft you make sure these guys are ready and it takes time and so i think the reason he got annoyed at that question was a it kind of goes a little bit against his core beliefs but b i think he's tried to take those swings and they haven't landed so that's why i think he reacted the way it did but you know i i thought it was just really interesting that lalonde felt very strongly that they're going to be okay that there are a lot of good young players there i thought it was interesting too

to hear uh eiserman say that he thought they were going to contend for a wild card spot or at least contend for a wild card spot because one of the things he's really tried to downplay is expectations on how ready this team is for the playoffs that's the that's really the first time he's kind of admitted that we should be farther along than he'd said previously. Right, right. And is that almost an admission that, yeah, this season's got away from us already? I mean, they're not in a great spot, but the wild card isn't, I wouldn't say it's anywhere locked up yet.

No, that's the thing. Like a game like that, a game like when you change your coach and that's the first game back, like that would worry me a lot. Yeah. The timing was tough too coming out of the break. Yeah, like that would, that would worry me a lot. Yeah. The timing was tough to coming out of the breaks. Yeah.

I understand that, but you know what? Like, like I was watching the video of McClellan's practice. Like, and he was yelling at guys like, just play, just play.

Like, like, okay. He, I know he, he, he coaches a pretty rigid system, but,

um, he, he coaches, but everybody knows how to play it. And you should be excited. It's your first game back after Christmas. It's a new coach. You should have some enthusiasm to you. That would worry me.

Right. That's fair. I'm glad you think so. Yeah. So McClellan has his work cut out for him as the Red Wings move forward. A couple of other really interesting matchups in their first few days back, Elliot. You wanted to touch on the Hurricane and Devils, the home and home there,

Friday, Saturday. Those were great games. So, like, those three teams are going to make the playoffs, right? Like, they have created enough separation in the Metro that they're all going to the playoffs. And, and, and I, you know, you do not want to finish second in that division. Cause I mean, the two threes are going to be hard everywhere,

but that one's going to be really hard, but those Carolina games against Jersey, those were great games. And, you know, I, I said that, you know, I said that I could watch seven games of that. And did you see my mentions to that tweet? You hinted at that. Oh, my God. The Devils and Carolina fans, they were murdering each other.

First of all, all the Devils fans were like, we didn't just lose to the Hurricanes tonight. We lost to the Hurricanes and the referees. They felt they were and even keith was mad and we'll get to this in a second keith was mad in the post game but um it was great hockey like those two teams they do not like each other it was i could watch seven games of that no problem brindamore fast at the 300 breaking um you know breaking boudreaux's record it's a it's about time that campbell River had someone to be proud of.

Right. Well, he's done well carrying the flag for us. He may be, if this keeps going on here, he could be in the Hall of Fame as a player. He could go in as a builder. Well, first of all, he's got to go in as a player. It's ridiculous. He's not in there already.

Yes. It's ridiculous. But I'm still looking to see what Carolina is going to do. To me, New Jersey, the interesting thing about the Devils is they went out and they made all those changes in the offseason, and every single one of them has looked really good. And the other thing, too, is that Siegenthaler, who had a really tough year last year, he's been back.

And so, like, I'm looking at them and I'm saying are you really adding anymore you've added a lot you've got your guys in the right spot like are you really adding but Carolina they're gonna add I in goal I think and maybe somewhere else I could see Carolina taking a big swing but I'd love to see I'd love to see seven games and I I'm same with Washington Washington's a lot like Jersey they went out and they did a lot in the offseason yes they're a lot better than people thought they were and they're legit like people say that this is not a fluke with the Capitals they are legit faster team one thing I wanted to touch to like there was a few people pointing out how good of a fit Pierre-Luc Dubois has been so far, which, I mean, to some may sound like a surprise considering how it ended in Los Angeles. Of course, the team did a lot of homework before making that trade with Kemper there last offseason. But somebody said to me over the weekend, Elliot, was that when you look at the coaches that he has played for, right? He had Tortorella in Columbus. He had Bonas in Winnipeg.

McClellan in Los Angeles. Hard coaches that they've got their way of going about it, very direct in their messaging and how they go about running a room. And not that Spencer Carberry's a soft coach by any stretch, but— Are you calling Spencer Carberry a win? Not at all. I think you are. Hey, he's another Vancouver Islander

that I'm going to look out for. But just a different approach. And the point that somebody made to me was maybe that's helped bring out the best in Dubois because they look at it as he's a guy that they have no problem matching up against the top players on the other side. And they just didn't have those same options

a season ago when it comes to line matching in those situations so he's been even you know it's not that he's shot the lights out in terms of production but i just heard from a few people that he's been a really good fit there well you know matt roy like they compared them there to niskanen uh you know matt niskanen was a really good player uh underrated player, didn't get the attention he deserved. Matt Roy has been a really good fit there. Chikrun scored the other night in Toronto. Washington, they have both their goalies, Thompson and Lindgren, are UFAs,

and Washington has told teams they want to keep both those guys. So it'll be interesting to see there. But also, too, that Protis, it's really one of the first times I got a interesting to see there but also too like that protus it's really one of the first times i got a chance to see him in person he is a massive right massive but like ross mahoney who it does their scouting um i got a couple people like privately shout him out to me the other day like him and his staff they find guys don't draft high, but they find guys consistently. Apparently, Protis' younger brother, I think, is in Windsor right now. He's even bigger.

Yeah, and they drafted him too, right? Yes. A couple of people said to me, like, that kid's a player also. So, Elliot, we talk about the horses leading the charge in the Metro Division, and then you look at the Rangers, and you highlighted on Saturday how quickly they have tumbled to now dead last in the Metro division. And then you look at the Rangers and you highlighted on Saturday, how quickly they have tumbled to now dead last in their own division. It's been remarkable how quickly this is all unraveled. Remarkable for all the wrong reasons.

Yes. So November 19th, they're sixth place in the league in points percentage. And now, as you said, they're dead last in the Metropolitan division. That is a historic collapse historic collapse so you know what that reminds me of is in high school uh i had a buddy

that was doing really well in one of the one of his classes and he bombed the final exam and i don't know if you felt the pressure or what it is and the teacher ended up giving him a real break uh because he's you know i remember the teacher said to him you know you had a great year you were a great student you did well in everything and i don't know what happened here but I don't think a very successful year should be blown up by just this one situation where you folded like the Soviet Union against Canada in 1972. Oh my God.

I don't know why that came back into my head. What a reference. I remember we were all laughing. Anyway, in all seriousness, in this league, there's certain people, when you read them on certain things, you say, there's some things, you just, you read the reporting, you enjoy the reporting.

There's other things, you know, you read the opinion, you enjoy the opinion, but you don't know if it's just someone's thinking or if it's based in fact when you read that column that was in the larry brother was in the new york post on sunday from larry brooks where he talks about they're gonna have to fire peter laviolette you know larry brooks there's nobody that has better sources in the rangers than he does nobody and what he's writing that and it's it's not because it's necessarily his opinion but you have to look at that and you see that that is the he is getting that directly from someone who matters now i don't like to guess sources i don't like when people do it with me

so i don't do it with other people but all i think we all understand that he is getting that from somebody whose opinion carries weight and like that was a harsh harsh column like he really hammered the players there and what that said to me kyle is that what we've seen so far with the likes of goudreau and truba and potentially crider and crider being included on that uh on the on the trade lit on the in the in the trade conversation either we haven't seen anything yet or more of that is coming and you know laviolette he's kind of caught in the middle of all this like this like he's been around a long time he knows this is a results oriented business but like peter laviolette's got to be sitting here thinking just like the rest of us like what on earth happened how did we end up where we are And I'm sure he's as much of a loss for words as everybody else is.

But to me, the bigger story of that column is more is coming. And you kind of have to sit there and look at it and figure out what it is. And, you know, I watched a bit of that on Saturday nights. It's tough because I'm usually watching the Canadian games, but I was watching Tampa Rangers and Zbigniew had one shift where he had a great chance to score and his stick broke like right on, like right on the doorstep, his stick exploded. And then later in the shift, he tries to make a pass cross ice and the lightning just see what it is for

what it is. And they like just deflected away. And he goes to the bench and he just looks so discouraged. And I'm not interested in kicking people when they're down. It's not what I like to do. But you can't help but read that column and see the way it's going for Zibanejad, who's got a no-move clause. And you're just wondering if that's going to be something

like the Rangers try to focus on. Either we can do this the easy way or we can do this the hard way. Like maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's not Zibanejad. Maybe they'd start looking somewhere else. But I just, like that column today says to me because of who wrote it and because I know how connected they are in that organization that we are far from finished with major change for the Rangers.

And I'll say this. I think if there was a guy who was available, although I don't see it, that teams would be climbing up buildings to go get would be Trocek. Right. If he was available, like teams would be killing themselves to get them. But again,

he has control and I am not convinced at all that they would want to do that. Craig Simpson, every now and then brings up that old line from Glenn Sather when he was his coach in Edmonton that you guys think it can't get any worse you're dead wrong and whenever I see situations like we've got in New York right now those words come rushing back to my mind because you're looking at it going how could this possibly get any worse well just wait because it always can Just wait because it always can. Somebody told me that nobody managed Jim Dolan better than Glenn Sather. It's an interesting point. That nobody knew how to handle him better. Nobody knew how to convince him or dissuade him or move him to a position he thought was better than Sather. Probably because Sather worked for Peter Pocklington.

So he probably understood there was a similarity there. It's a skill, and it's a hard one to master. It's a real skill. Okay. Something at least a little more optimistic to talk about here from the weekend, Elliot, was Dobesh of Montreal. Yep. What a performance there.

First NHL start, first career shutout against a very good Panther team. That was just a good performance by the Canadians. But I bring that up to also tie in Patrick Laine and we're playing a little bit of catch-up on this one but his comments before going into Columbus just prior to the holiday break and the Blue Jackets responded so for those that missed it he had suggested that while he was there in the Blue Jackets organization the team maybe wasn't always about winning and that in Montreal, at least, they're trying to win every game that they play. Not surprisingly, the Blue Jackets pushed back against that,

Zach Wierenski namely. What did you think of all of that? Is it okay for my position to be that nothing about that was bad? I don't think at all. It's part of what makes sports great at time and what can make it the best soap opera. So what people may not realize, and I wondered if it kind of is a reason

that Line A said it, is that the year he was traded to Columbus, he'd played there whatever was half the season. That was a COVID year. Yeah, and at the end of the year, there was a team meeting and some of the veterans said that if we really want to be successful here, Line A and Elvis Merzlikens have to go. And instead, a number of those, like Seth Jones asked for a trade, and I think Cam Atkinson was another one.

He was traded to Philadelphia. Basically, some of the players who said we need to make those changes were let go. At that moment, when you're managing a team, and Jarmo Kekulainen was the manager at that time, you have a choice. You go one way or the other. And he chose to do that way.

And, you know, I think Laine has to know that, right? Like he has to know that that happened. So I kind of wondered if that was tied into the comments he made too. Because whether you agree or you disagree with Laine, if you're any kind of professional, as Laine is, you're going to be hurt by that of course you know like you know you know like if imagine the everyone listening to this go into your workplace and find out that everybody a bunch of guys in your workplace say if we want to be successful you're out or you have to go so you're you're going to be hurt

so i think that's I wouldn't be surprised if that is the backdrop to what Lonnie said. But I also have zero problem with how the Blue Jackets reacted. You know, like if I was a Blue Jackets fan, I would be like, yes, that is the pride. If I'm paying the tickets to these games and i love the columbus blue jackets i am a bigger fan today because a those guys have played their hearts out this year and in the worst of the worst situations and b it is very clear that those guys have a lot

of pride in their organization like so i mean the funniest thing i read in aaron porchline story was that they had they were supposed to do a video for him and they canceled it and i have no problem with that like none like if i was running the team and he said that i would say we're not doing the video and i have no problem with the Blue Jackets taking offense to it and them making the game hard on him. Like targeting the shoulder, like something like that, you have to prove that to me. You have to prove that they were deliberately trying to injure him. Now, there's a reason, and this is another reason why in the NHL,

people are very secretive about injuries because there's no question that they'll make life hard on you. And that's the thing with Matthews. Matthews took that cross-check from Gilbert. How many cross-checks do you think he's going to be taking now for the rest of the season? So that is the way it goes. But deliberately trying to injure him, prove it to me,

but I've got no problem with the Blue Jackets saying, you know what, this is BS, and we're going to play this guy really hard. Like, that's the way sports are supposed to be. You should have pride in yourself. You should have pride in the organization that you play for and the community you play in. And I have no problem with any of that and the fans on the two teams like just like the caroline jersey fans just

tearing into each other that's what sports is all about like that's that's competition that's competitive that's that's the way it should be yeah the way, I'm starting to get a little nervous of this Google Meet invite I just got from you and Dom here for next week. I'm wondering what that's going to be about. That's pretty good, man. Don't worry. I tell you to your face.

Yes. Hey, the other thing too is that Dobish, that was a great moment. His mom was there to see it. Yeah. And the other thing too about that is, I think everybody could see the writing on the wall, that Dobish, that was a great moment. His mom was there to see it. Yeah. And the other thing too about that is, like I think everybody could see the writing on the wall what was going on in Montreal,

fortunately for Caden Primo, who was not claimed on waivers on Sunday. I think they were thinking about Dobish for a little bit of time. But one of the things I think they were talking about is, you know, he's got to play, right? And, you know, how much is he going to play if he's up in Montreal? Like, do you spot stardom?

Do you say, okay, we're only going to call him up when he's actually going to play games? Well, now he pitches a shutout in his first start. You can't set him down. So, like, good for him. He's a real talent. There's no doubt about it. But I am curious to see how Montreal is going to use him

because you don't want him just sitting around and not playing. Right. We've got a question in the thought line about Dobish, so stay tuned for that. Okay. A couple of things I just want to mention about. You know which game I was surprised was really timid?

Oh, well, could it possibly be Philadelphia Anaheim? Yeah, you know, I had to tell you that game had a lot less heat to it than I thought it was going to be. Great buildup. Oh, well, that's the thing. Like, how many times, it was like a movie where all the good scenes were shown in the trailer like you know like like cutter goche says circled it on the calendar and toward i was like i don't give a flying fadoo as bob mccown would say about what that guy has to say coming this december

and and so i thought that game was going to be like I thought that game could be like an 80s style bloodbath too and it was it was very tame I I could only imagine how much money was on the board in both those rooms and I'm sure there was some chirping and but I like there was there were some scrums at the end of the game. I wanted to, someone was going to challenge Gauthier, like, uh, not like a heavyweight or anything like that. Well, Deloria is hurt, but like maybe just someone like, like more comparable to him as a player might, um, now everybody on these two teams gonna think i'm calling them wimps but i i was i was

surprised that it was it didn't have the fireworks that everybody talked about going in right maybe there was just almost too much build-up that there was nowhere to go well it's also it's not that league so much anymore right right but if you go back to when the trade first happened, the fireworks that came up. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was like red meat to Flyers fans when that initially, and it was like. That was like the 10 plagues in Egypt,

like the way the Flyers reacted to that one. Like that was, they were furious about it. And by the way, I said it then, and I'll say it again. I am convinced more than ever and I I still believe that this was the reason uh was that Gauthier thought he was going to Philadelphia that year and Philly because they had such a terrible season and they'd made the change to Briere and Jones and and because their their dressing room was a mess at that point, they said, this is not the

environment to bring him in. And I think that got lost in translation. I think the player felt he was going to be there. And that's why I think the relationship fell apart. Got it. Okay. Before we get to final thoughts, January 1st, important date on the NHL calendar. That is on Wednesday. So on January 1st, players who have been signed to one-year contracts are eligible to sign extensions. There's a few of them, obviously. And one of the ones I'm going to be looking at is Ty Emerson of Edmonton. A bit of a slow start.

I remember Kyle Burrows, when we were in L.A., telling us that the only thing he was worried about for Emerson is he's a quiet guy who'd never played in a quote-unquote noisy market before. And he said that once he adjusted to that, he would be fine. Kyle Burrows should be either hosting a podcast or doing TV somewhere because he was totally right about that. Emerson is cooled down.

He's playing very well. And the other thing, too, is after what happened last summer to the Oilers, they're not going to be taking any chances. So I would not be surprised to see the Oilers and Emerson engage and work on trying to get something done not long after the first. We'll see if it happens, but that's one I'm going to be looking for. Now, Elliot, it was just one week ago you had a self-imposed moratorium on speaking about the Canucks.

You were not to do it for what, a month? A month. We didn't even last a week. I got a text from one manager who said, good luck with that, by the way. Yes. I think I could hear through the computer screen, Dom shaking his head when you said it just before the holiday break. But with the injury news to Pedersen and Hughes,

you talked about it on headlines on Saturday, Sunday. It looks like Pedersen about a week, Hughes week to week. So what are Canuck fans looking at here in terms of optimism going forward with those two? Well, first of all, I tried to, I broke the moratorium because I tried to do the right thing. You know, there weren't many updates provided on Saturday and the fans were obviously very concerned for good reasons. So I tried to find out what I could. You know, what I said was they were not serious.

I couldn't say time, but they weren't considered serious. You know, Pedersen coming back in about a week indicates that we'll see what happens with Hughes. not serious i couldn't say time but they weren't considered serious um you know petterson coming back in about a week indicates that we'll see what happens with hughes i did get a text from someone on sunday saying does week to week qualify as not serious and you know i don't really know how to answer that i've got to be honest i i i tend to think that this is more of a caution thing as opposed to a serious injury that they're worried about but you know we'll see like you know the Demko thing and you know like I think they always like the Demko thing is really unusual in the sense that I think it was a bad idea for some of us to put timelines on it looking back at it with 2020 hindsight and i would

include myself in that i don't think i'm any less guilty than anyone else i think they always knew what they were dealing with but it was just it was something that he had to get comfortable with and it just it it was it was like you just had to give it time and And again, so I think we'll see how it goes with Hughes. But I didn't sense a ton of worry that this was something that was going to be a long, long-term thing. We'll see. The one thing I would say about the Canucks is, I think it was a really tough game on Saturday. I couldn't believe what happened.

But I do believe, I believe very strongly that in these moments, you find out who you can really depend on. You know, things sort themselves out. Players take that opportunity. Now, some people may not be capable of the opportunity, but you will find others who will take the opportunity. opportunity and i am really curious to see what this is going to mean um over the next little while in terms of who steps up and says okay we're kind of in a little bit of roster trouble here i'm gonna i'm gonna make a difference i always think that's very important like you know we're talking about that well what about with ottawa like just gonna say yeah like same theme marylinan um another gutsy performance Sunday.

So we interviewed Travis Green in the pregame on Saturday, and I said that I've heard a million times, one man's injury is another man's opportunity, and he kind of laughed it off and said, I did not tell Matt Sogard that. I just told him to enjoy it. Unfortunately, it didn't work out for Sogard, but it has worked out for Maryland.

Like he won in Vancouver. He won in Minnesota. Those are really two tough places to play. But the thing I liked even more about him was in the back-to-back after Vancouver, you know, he had to come in after Allmark got knocked out after the first period and he played really well.

Like it's one thing to play well, at least when you know you're the guy. But when you get thrown in there out of nowhere and you play the way he played, that says to you like that's a guy who's got some heart to him. So I've been really impressed with Ottawa lately. That's a great win in Minnesota on Sunday night.

You know, the one thing I think about watching this is, you know, only the Senators know what the story is with their goalies only they know that we know all marks not on the road trip we know Forsberg still battling something only Ottawa knows what they're dealing with here and so ultimately Steve Stahels is going to make the decision can he get is it short enough that he can get through it or does he have to go out and get something else but the one thing i do see and i and i see this here is that the way the senators are playing the it's estes is a former player he's going to be sitting there is saying at some point in time i'm going to have to get help um because this team is playing like they deserve help and so i i i think he's got to be

sitting there saying if someone has played for as long as he did that if it's any kind of question that he's going to need to go out and get something, he has to do it. Because the way the players have played and the way this season has gone, it dictates that you have to help this group. And you're trying to teach this group how to win, right? And they're showing that they're making the sacrifices and changing the way to play to win. So then your responsibility as a manager is to reward them by getting them what they need.

Cause the worst thing that can happen is they can, they can feel that we've done our job and, and we're not, and someone's not, and the organization's not doing their job. And we know this management group is doing everything they can to try to prove they're not like the previous ownership right yeah so that's what i look at like the senators players are dictating that whatever help is needed they deserve it

and i always think that's a big thing because that's a sign your organization's going in the right direction and as they continue to sort out how long they're looking at for all mark for forsberg though it doesn't look like it's as serious for him, at least as you say, with the the same level of experience or the same resume as some of the other guys in the organization that are on the injured list for the time being, at least that's a style where you can go, okay, I can give you guys a chance to win playing behind that.

And that's the first time in the Kachuk era where Ottawa is playing a brand of hockey, where you could say that about, I would say. Completely agree. And also, don't look now, but Vegas has won six in a row. Ooh. Right with Winnipeg at the top of the league.

I think he goes out and gets a winger or two. Look out. Look out. Vegas is back. Maybe they didn't even really go anywhere. No. And the other thing that I wanted to do is I wanted to shout out Scott Oak. Oh, yes.

Like last week, his after hours with Claude Giroux and Steve Stales was excellent. And this week, he did it with Macklin Celebrini, and it was excellent for no other reason that he informed Macklin Celebrini that his parents, Rick and Robin, met at the Roxy. Being from Vancouver, I'm sure you've heard of the Roxy, right? Yeah. Who hasn't? So your parents, Rick and Robin, both star soccer players at UBC, you would logically think that they met on the campus of ubc right yeah yeah but i should tell

you this they met at the roxy did you know that i did not know that no i didn't i had no idea i knew they i knew they met at some some sort of bar place but i didn't know it was the roxy macklin so there you have it true love can be born at the Roxy and the Celebrini's prove it. Yeah, exactly. That is elite television. That is why he has been named to the Order of Canada. Yes. Some of the finest reporting from the man that's been doing it longer than any. His excellence, Scott Oak.

That's right. Okay. That brings us to the final thought, which is brought to you by GMC. Elliot, we might as well talk a little World Juniors here. Oh, my goodness. I'll tell you. So the family, we went to the Boxing Day game against Finland. Yeah.

And that was great. Crowd was full. How many of you went? All five of us there. So Dana, my wife, my mom and dad, and my brother. Did you have any fans coming up and asking for pictures? None. None, none, none.

What's going on with you ottawa like come on like this is a friendly handsome man he should be mobbed every time he enters the building no i uh my father was a triple crown winner at the vancouver motorsport show in 1998 i think that's the guy you want to go talk to not me so the night after boxing day uh latvia stuns canada in the shootout i mean what a moment for for that country and felber's the uh unbelievable i couldn't believe he played the next day against the u.s how do you not like child abuse well i don't always go that far it's like 99 he's faced 106 shots in less than 20 in less than uh 24 hours somewhere patrick was smiling the fact that they just went right back to him he had that great line

before the christmas break about you never want to have that mindset of i'm tired i'm tired just go play yeah just go play that kid personified it yes yes i uh so it's funny going into the dressing room in washington saturday morning a couple of players have been like did you watch the game last night did you watch the game last night like they wanted to talk about it of course that it spread like wildfire throughout the the hockey world there i mean it was just one of those nights that obviously if you're a team canada fan you're like i can't believe we're witnessing this but an unbelievable moment for a country that you know you would think should in theory have zero chance of pulling off any kind of result like that anywhere let alone

in canada's backyard i think some of the stats were wild to me uh just first of all that they'd never lost to anyone besides i guess it's u.s czechia russia sweden and finland and finland before at the world juniors like they never lost to a country in that group like latvia like that blew me away um because i remember i lost the they'd lost to kazakhstan remember so like yes i didn't realize it was the first time like that's the first comparable loss like that in a long, long time. Right. So I think I talked to you about it before. I'd written it that I don't watch the juniors enough.

I don't know. Like Conor Bedard, as we find out in the interview, he's really in tune with junior hockey, and he's well aware of all the stats. I'm not like that. I don't watch enough of it. But there was no question in my mind and leading up to the tournament that the second guessing like the moment they lost or didn't do something it was going to be a monsoon this year and that

absolutely happened you'll remind me of kyle was first time the power play didn't score the structure is terrible and uh and then so um remind me of 2002 when canada lost to sweden in the first game of the olympics now sweden was a much better team than than latvia was um but i remember a friend of mine hosted that was i think that was during the time where um there was the there was the sports radio station on the chum network across Canada, and they did 10 straight hours of calls of people just ripping Canada for losing to Sweden. Right, because that came off the heels of Nagano, right? Right, yes.

So you're right. And so there was – the reaction on social media reminded me of that. Now, the one thing I remember from that 2002 tournament that taught me well is you can lose early like as long as you figure out your lessons and you like to me it you can't stop people from piling on but like to me it was almost like too early like they can still figure this out now they lost Schaefer which was a huge loss for them. And it won't stop the roster questions that everybody has. But I hope for the Canadian players, it reminds me of 2002 in the sense that they lost early.

They looked terrible. They got piled on and they figured it out. Like you remember in 2002, it was a struggle to beat Germany. And then they needed a late goal to even tie the Czechs. And then, you know, what did they get? They started to get hot. And then they got the break of Belarus beating Sweden. And then they looked fantastic in the gold medal game.

So I always think that it's early. But like that's the one thing I really felt about this tournament was I don't know if I'd seen one before where you could tell beforehand that if they lost, people were going to be waiting for them and people were going to be all over them. Like, look, for the four nations did we all have some disagreements over what the roster looked like but it wasn't like this oh no chance it wasn't like this like they were getting murdered even before the tournament began

for this roster right well once they even picked the selection camp roster not even their final who's actually playing games for us like the selection camp was picked apart a great deal. And the NHL teams were mad. Like that's another thing I realized. Ottawa especially, they're hosting and their guy didn't get in. Yes, they were mad. But I think there were some other teams that were really upset. Like they wanted to see some of these draft eligible guys in big moments.

Like people are always careful. You don't make your pick based on the world juniors, but you want to see your players and big potential players in big competition, right? Yeah, people were really out for blood on that one. But that Latvian goalie is spectacular. And, you know, it was funny. Like, I was talking about with some guys like

obviously didn't call any of those players that they didn't initially invite right so are they so or that they caught or anything like that but we were having a debate like if someone called you from team canada you'd been caught or you hadn't been invited, would you say yes? And then it became, like I guess a couple of the Canadian players liked some of the Instagram posts and the tweets of the final score against Latvia, and then it becomes about, like if you're Hockey Canada and you're thinking, I may have to go back into this pool, do you invite a player that does that?

Well, I know for myself, I would go play. You would? The opportunity would be too incredible to say no to. As bitter as you may have been at one point, that's a tough one to say no to. I generally agree with you. I'll say this. At 54, I know I would suck it up,

but knowing what a cement head I was at 19, I might have, like, someone would have needed to smack me in the face and say, you're going. You're going. But I'll say this by the same thing, and again, I understand the emotion of 19-year-old kids. I don't know if I would have invited somebody

who would have pressed like on those tweets. Good point. Although, again, I want to make it very clear. I know what I was like at 19 and I might have done that too. Right. It's interesting because part of very formal years for me was that five straight that they won from 05 to 09. And at that time, if we're being logical logical there was three countries that legit had a shot at winning right yes canada the u.s maybe and russia and so those years it was like really

until you got to the semis it was just kind of a a party as a team canada fan like you just it was win after win after win and then once you got to the semis a little bit of tension and and some nerves as they went to go play for a gold medal. But it's just a completely different viewing experience now going through the whole tournament. Not that you think they're going to be in tough against a team like Latvia every single year. But the opportunity and the likelihood of something you don't expect happening just seems far greater now than it ever has at that tournament. And I suppose in the grand scheme of things, that's what you want. Well, that's why I believe you don't cut the number of teams, right?

You don't get that Latvia game if you cut the number of teams. And it's like Germany, they've been trying to build up their hockey for so long and they go to the gold medal final in 2018. They go to the gold medal final. Now they've got one of the best players in the NHL in dry sidle, and the NHL's talking about playing more games there. Like, that's, you have to commit to that. You 100% have to commit to that.

Very good. That was the final thought brought to you by GMC. We'll take our first break and when we come back, the Thought Line from Chicago. You're listening to 32 Thoughts, the podcast. All right.

Welcome back. Time now for the Thought Line, the phone number to call if you have forgotten over the holiday break, 1-833-311-3232, or you can send in an email as many often do at 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca. Elliot, anything burning? Oh, you know what I should mention?

I got a note from Arpan Basu. Oh, nice. Yes, one of your buddies in Montreal, and he said that I had mentioned that Rocket Richard was the reason that the power play uh got it was taken away from the league that you got the full two minutes on the power play and once you scored your power play ended because of Richard's five goal game. Arpon pointed out that it was not that. And he presented me with an article that said that Jean Beliveau scored three goals in 44 seconds against the Bruins in 1955, 56. So they changed the rule that off season.

Okay. So that is what it was. Bellevue, not Rocket. Thank you, Arpen, for that. Keeping us honest. I should have picked that up. All right. Oh, and one other thing.

Okay. Kathy Broderick, the great Hockey Night in Canada producer, said that I told a lie on the holiday episode, the Christmas episode. Doesn't sound like you at all. No, it does not. And honestly, if I did this wrong, it's because I forgot and not because I was trying to claim credit for something I didn't do. She said that when we were interviewing Hilary Whitebread, our makeup person, that I claimed that I took in the game. I cut it close coming back from hockey day in Canada last year that Dave

Amber didn't wait for his bag and he went right to the studio and I waited for Dave's bag and took it to the studio. She said, I did not do that. She said she was the one who took Dave's bag to the studio. But so I said, why did that? Why was I later than Dave then? And I think it was because Dave, who panics at the slightest thing going wrong, charted off that plane like like prime Usain Bolt.

And I just didn't go like him. And I just didn't go like him. But she said, you waited for a few minutes, but you had to go and she took the bag. So I just want everyone to know that I didn't save Dave Amber's bag. Kathy Broderick did it. Kathy Broderick's voice, it's the last voice of calm I hear in my ear before the show opens at 7 Eastern every Saturday. Then it's just a disaster.

And then it all goes off the rails from there. But at least it's a good place to start. And we'll start this thought line with Steve from O'Fallon, Missouri. So the recent hockey player cameos discussion. Yes, we're not done with this. This was a good one I wanted to include. Unlocked a childhood memory for me and my very first introduction to the great sport of hockey.

As a kid, I remember watching Reading Rainbow. Oh, yeah, that was a big one. That was a big show. Do you have any idea where I'm going with this? Because I had no idea. No. And seeing LeVar Burton try on a goalie mask in a hat store when he was magically transported to an ice rink where none other than Kelly Rudy of the New York Islanders was waiting.

This episode was my first exposure to hockey, and it sparked a lifelong passion for the sport that continues to this day. Did you have any idea about this? No, no. I sent Kelly a note. I said, was this true? Do you have any idea about this? No, no. I sent Kelly a note. I said, was this true? Do you have any memories? He said, of course. LeVar Burton, amazing man. The episode was called A Three Hat Day. He said it was almost 40 years ago. So the exact details of everything that went on there is a little fuzzy, understandably. But he said he does remember filming the seven minute segment took about seven hours in real

time to actually get done but he spoke very highly of lavar burton he said when he later played in los angeles he bumped into him a couple of times when he was a king but i actually somewhere on youtube and maybe we'll include the link into the show notes but deep into this long video of a couple of reading Rainbow episodes is that segment. Wow. Yeah. I had no idea. All those years you worked with Kelly.

Oh, you found it. Dom found it. Okay. So, oh my God, look at Kelly. He looks fantastic. Kyle, that's how I envisioned you wearing a helmet. Yes. That's why I never made it.

So LeVar Burton, excellent in Star trek the next generation thanks excellent in star trek the next generation was he in the ron lafleur story too i'm just trying to remember filmography let's see i just want to see i remember the ron lafleur story yes good memory yeah ron lafleur story yeah i just wanted to see if i remember that. Wow. What a pull by Steve. Nice job. Very good way to kick it off. All right. Bretton up next.

He asks, how would Matt Rempe's suspension work? He was suspended from the NHL, but he hadn't been a full-time roster player with the Rangers this year. Is he suspended in any league that he plays in? IE the American league. Do the Rangers have to call him up for those any league that he plays in, i.e. the American League? Do the Rangers have to call him up for those eight games that he is suspended for? How does it all work? So the answer is no, they do not carry over. So if the Rangers were able to, or sent down Rampey,

he could technically play in the American Hockey League, but that means his NHL suspension doesn't start. Like you actually have to be on the NHL quote-unquote roster for eight games for your suspension to run out. So it doesn't, if the Rangers want to use Rempe at some point, it benefits them to let it run. Like one thing I remember a couple of years ago, and I just looked up while you were asking this question, was Luke Witkowski who played in Detroit.

He was suspended once the American hockey league, I think for two or three games. And they called him up to play in the NHL because they were short defensemen. And I think the, so, and I think it also happened once. I don't remember the exact situation. Someone will tell me if I'm wrong, but I think it also happened once. I don't remember the exact situation. Someone will tell me if I'm wrong.

But I think it also happened once with Stephen Kamfer. I think he was suspended in the AHL. And I can't remember if it was Boston or somewhere else he played. They needed defensemen and they called him up. So they don't carry over. But what it means is that you don't gain credit for missing a game in the other league if you're in the nhl while you're suspended in the ahl or vice versa very good okay noah from smiths falls ontario the home of brooke henderson hello kyle elliott and dom my dad and i are big habs fans and enjoyed

watching dobesh in his nhl debut over weekend. When watching him record his shutout, we noticed a nicely painted Habs mask he was using. Obviously, masks take time to be worked on and painted accordingly. We were wondering, do goalies have these masks on standby in case they do get called up, or would the team simply have some extras in case of emergency? Thanks for all the work you guys do and let us know. So I know in this particular case, he has had this mask from the start of the season.

Because if you go back and look at the appearances he made for the Canadians in the preseason, he had the same mask on with the Dobie nickname across the chin that he wore this past Saturday down in Florida. So I don't know if every American League goalie would have an NHL mask ready at the start of a season. You never know what's going to happen. But in Dobish's case, he did. And I know for most goalies, whether you're in the NHL or the American League, it is commonplace to have at least multiple standing by.

Some goalies will have a mask that they practice in and maybe a different one that they play games in. But there's usually at least two in a goalie stall at any given time. Great work. I think the only thing I would add was, and I doubt it would be the case, but there are stronger rules generally in the American Hockey League than the NHL, is that you have equipment that isn't under specification for the National Hockey League. Oh, right. But that's the only thing I could think of.

But great work by you. And a good question from Noah. Yeah. All right. We're wrapping here with Jackie from Florida. Hi, Kyle, Dom, and Elliot. Thanks for all you do. Thank you for listening.

My question relates to a game just before the holiday break between the Panthers and the Lightning. Florida Panthers, A.J. Greer and Eetu Losterainen each scored a shorthanded goal during the same penalty kill. Overall, the excited yelling with my family all home for the holidays in South Florida, we wondered how many times multiple goals have been scored on the same PK. We couldn't recall another time except when the Bruins did it back in 2010-ish. Thanks, and hope you had a great holidays

from the land of palm trees and no state income tax. That's a good line. So, it has been done before. Okay, did Theo Fleury do it for Calgary against San Jose? Or did he just score two shorthanded goals in the same game? One sec. A few moments later. So Theo Fleury had, I was wrong.

He had three shorthanded goals in the same game. But was it on the same penalty kill? And it was against the Blues, not the Sharks. I apologize, Sharks fans, for the slander I just put on you guys. No, they were three different penalty kills. Right. So the question is, multiple goals scored, shorthanded while on the same penalty kill.

It has happened in the NHL before. How many times? Do you want to just take a wild guess at a number? 47. It has happened in the NHL before. How many times? Do you want to just take a wild guess at a number? 47. It has happened since 1933-34 when goals by type were officially tracked 187 times, including four times this season alone. What? Yeah.

What games am I watching? The most, yeah, and actually one just the other day vegas i think it would have been against san jose braden mcnabb and jack eichel that's right that's right pittsburgh did it this year also winnipeg as well oh my morgan baron scored both of them the most interesting one to me Elliot, that I found of all the 187, October of 1989. Okay, was that after, was that Gretzky? Nope.

Okay. Okay, why was it interesting to you? Just the situation and the timing of it. Calgary Flames are playing the Quebec Nordiques, okay? Third period. At one point, Quebec is ahead eight to three. And that's when the Flames are playing the Quebec Nordiques, okay? Third period. At one point, Quebec is ahead 8-3.

And that's when the Flames start their comeback. Gary Roberts scores a pair. It's now 8-5. Jim Poplinski makes it 8-6. And then with 15 seconds left, while shorthanded, Doug Gilmore makes it 8-7. They go back to center ice for the faceoff. Calgary still shorthanded.

They push the puck forward off the draw. Gilmore to Paul Ranheim, who skates over the blue line. Four seconds later, with 11 to go in the third. Oh, my God. What a collapse. Ties the game 8-8. They scored two shorthanded goals on the same penalty kill. Four seconds apart

to tie the game in the dying moments of the third period. And it ended in an eight, eight tie. God, if all you people in Vancouver shouldn't feel so bad about the Seattle game on Saturday, that's a thousand times worse. Wow.

Believe that one. So that was the most curious one to me of the 187 times this has happened in history, which feels like a crazy number. I figured it would have been a decent size, but it's not as rare as maybe we have thought. No, no, it isn't. And Jackie, thank you for your submission and question. That'll do it for the Thought Line today.

1-833-311-3232 and 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca. When we come back, our conversations with both Kyle Davidson of the Chicago Blackhawks and the legendary Darren Pang. Stay tuned. Okay, welcome back. As promised, not one but two interviews for you here today. Kyle Davidson and Darren Pang. We will begin with the Blackhawks general manager. It has not been an easy season for Davidson and company.

They made a coaching change in early December, and the results have just not been at the level that they were hoping for heading into this year. But despite all of that, Davidson was very gracious with his time and we think offered some really interesting insight into how he approaches his role as general manager at just 36 years of age and what he sees as the path forward for this Chicago Blackhawks. We will begin with Davidson. Enjoy our conversation with the Blackhawks general manager. So pleased to be joined by Kyle from Chicago.

That's right. Yeah, here we are. Remember that from the draft? In Chicago. Kyle Davidson, the GM of the Blackhawks here. I appreciate you doing this. First off, I understand we've got an addition to the family here. Congratulations on that. How is everything going with you and your wife? Yeah, everything's going great. Baby Charlotte born just over a month ago now. So we're in my first, our first daughter, Willa, turned two on the 27th.

So we're an interesting household right now. Busy and lots going going on but all good things so you know you can still play man-to-man one more and you gotta go zone like that we're sticking man-to-man yeah we've yeah we have our ups and downs where maybe it's possibility and i you know i lead a crazy enough life i think two is is good. Well, congratulations. Hope everybody's great. So how's everything been going? Like how would you describe this year up until this point? Cause there's been a lot. Yeah. I think again, like ups and downs, right. It's been, it's been tough. You know, obviously making a coaching change is, is never easy and very obviously

would like to be winning a little more than we are. But I think there's some good things that we've seen. There's been some, you know, excitement around some of the young players coming in. You know, organizationally, I think we've got a much larger worldview than just at the United Center. And there's a lot of exciting things going on, you know, especially in our prospect pool. Again, a lot of the focus is on the NHL team, as it should be, which we just haven't seen the results that we necessarily expected

or wanted to coming into the year. But having said that, I think we've seen some nice moments, but we've got to sustain that more often than we have, certainly in the first part here. How much do you need something like a Winter classic right now like just you know to energize the group i remember there's been teams have come in before winter classic maybe they're struggling a bit and something like that it just says we've got something different on the schedule that we can look forward to how much does that help yeah i i think there's certainly validity to that um you know it is a

great event it's it's going to be a a spectacle that a lot of these players are going to be you know it'll be a a monumentous occasion in their careers whether veteran or young or you know to get to play at wrigley field uh Field for the Chicago Blackhawks in a Winter Classic is something special and something they'll look forward to. A lot of family coming in. They'll build it around, you know, New Year's and the holidays. And so it's something that's very exciting. You know, having said that, you want to make the most of that game in that moment

and use it as a, you know, maybe a stepping stone to something more positive in the new year. And so hopefully our group can do that. But having said that, it's something that's going to be extremely exciting and extremely positive experience for a lot of the guys. So I think it is something that they can get excited about. Now, you're an Ontario guy. Were you a Cubs fan at all or Jays? Oh, I was Jays.

I was Jays until I got down here. I'm still like, I say I've got my AL team and my NL team. And now I've actually got another team because Jeff Greenberg, who used to work here, is GM of the Troy Tigers now. So I'm very confused with my baseball fandom right now. So we just picked the last team that won. That's your favorite team? No, no, no. I used to do that when I was like eight years old.

Yeah, no. And, you know, well, the Cubs won a little while ago. I think it was 2016. The Jays, I was very young when they won, you know, the back-to-backs. But, and then the Detroit Tigers won a nice run. So, I don't know. I'm just, I'll kind of like hop between the three and hope for the best for a good friend in Detroit. And then I'll bounce back and forth between Cubs and Jays.

Gotcha. Now, were you around Wrigley at all, like when the Cubs won in 16? I know exactly where I was in 16. I was at some international tournament in Plymouth, Michigan, at USA Hockey Arena and watching it at my hotel in Livonia, Michigan. And then I drove back when they won. And by the time you get home and it's the middle of the night, you know, you're driving after a game and four-hour drive. And Chicago was just lit up still and getting home like at 2, 3 a.m.

And the cars going down the street honking. And so I remember it very, very well. And I went down to check out the parade and and experience that down on uh went down on Lake Shore Ave and so um it was yeah I I remember it very well you know there's there's no way you could have known in 2016 where life was going to take you like none of us ever do but I always remember the story about the Rangers in 94 talking about how Mike Keenan played the parade for them right at the beginning of the season.

And then I think he did it again right before game seven, unless I'm just totally butchering the story, but it was something like that. And I wonder if there's anything you look back from maybe that or any of the Blackhawks victories or celebrations that you use to motivate yourself or your organization about getting this team back there? Well, you know, I think it's, it's, it feels, you know, maybe more recent than it actually

is, but you know, you can, you can feel the energy when something, when we gets a little bit of momentum, even this year, you know, we're coming off of, you know, a couple wins and you can feel that electricity in the United Center and really feel, oh my gosh, like, remember what this place was like when we was really rocking in here. you can feel the remnants of that, you know, those great Blackhawks teams, you know, 10 or so years ago, that, you know, this fan base has starved for some excitement and they want to believe. And, you know, it's our job to give them something to believe in. And, you know, I think the city is looking for something to believe in right now.

And so, you know, obviously we're a work in progress um i think there's there's a lot of reason for optimism bubbling under the surface here um but you know i think you when you come to the united center and they get a good performance you know i think the players should be able to feel what is possible here and how exciting it really it really is when there's something really exciting going on in the United Center Ice. So I was talking to one of the owners at the Board of Governors meeting, and we were talking specifically about Chicago.

We were talking about a couple of situations. And he said to me he thinks it's harder than ever to do total rebuilds in the NHL. And we were talking about a few teams and just like how long, like even when you get a cornerstone, like a Bedard or a Celebrini, that it just, it seems to take longer than ever. And it's harder than ever.

Do you agree with that? I don't disagree that it's hard. I don't disagree that it gets noisy and that um you know it's it's it's a tough road having said that i i do believe that if you want to reach the pinnacle of your sport i think you have to do the hard things and i think you have to commit to that and uh and commit to the upside that it can bring now there's there's risk of course in anything but there's also risk in in trying to you know maybe if if you know back when i took over we we tried to keep pieces together and on the fly you know i i'm just not convinced we would be

able to reach the upside that we all want to attain. And that's to be a contender if we went down that road. And, you know, that was my pitch to, um, during my interviews is that look like this is really hard. There is risk to it, of course, but I also feel like there's a lot more upside in, in doing it this way in terms of a full rebuild and so we went with that plan and we committed to that plan and um i feel very confident that we're on the right road is it a long road yes it is uh but you walk into it knowing that um and so you have to be very honest with with the path you're going down and then you, once you've got pieces in place, perhaps at that point you can do things that, you know, maybe, you know,

if we were to try and retool on the fly back a couple of years ago, we can try some of those methods, you know, at some point in our rebuild to try and accelerate, you know, but we have to feel good about the base and the foundation we're building first before we really jump into that and so you know do i feel like we have a really good

foundational uh construct i do you know but it takes time you know you have to let these players get into your into their 20s or early 20s to really understand where they're headed and what their upside could be and and how likely it is that they do hit a certain upside. And some of our young players just aren't there yet. You know, we've got some here that are very promising. We've got some in Rockford and college and Europe and junior that are very promising, but they're still young. And we have to really understand what they're going to be

before we really jump in and commit to not, you're leaving spots for them or leaving places for them in the future. And, you know, maybe making a trade or making signings that fill those roles with NHL established veterans. And so, you know, we're getting there, we're getting closer, but we have to leave room for some development and understanding of where some of these prospects are headed. So you mentioned just your belief in this process and the road that you're on. I wonder, I mean, so March 2022 is when you officially became the GM here in Chicago. And over that time, I wonder what the process has been like is just getting comfortable in being

that person making the final call, because it's an easy thing to sit anywhere else and say, well, I would have done this or I would have done that. And now you're the one that can make that decision. What's it been like? You know, I think there's obviously comfort in it, but there's also pressure. You know, if there's problems that come up, they're your problems. You can handle them the way you want to handle them

and you can take charge in that scenario versus, you know, if you're,'re you know maybe a little further down the ladder you're helping to uh fix a problem for someone else the way they would want to handle it so there's comfort in doing things yourself and being able to take action and decisive action explain that up the food chain why you're doing certain things. Having said that, you've got to own those decisions. You've got to own what you're doing. But I also feel like you're learning every day. And I don't think that ever ends, whether you're 36 or whether I'm... Old like me.

I won't say that. I would. You're fortunate enough to do this for a long time and have great experience. I think there's always new things you're learning. But for myself, I try not to manage scared. I don't want to manage in a way that leaves me worried about what could go wrong. about what could go wrong. I want to manage and do things based on what this could look like and from a place of optimism and upside.

And so, you know, but it's, you know, you have to have a plan. You have to be committed to a plan. And everyone's got to understand that plan internally so they can help provide the necessary inputs into your decision-making process that do feed into that greater plan. And, you know, there's a lot of communication that goes into that, both to staff and then to ownership, because everyone's got to be on the same page. Everyone's got to be understanding of where we're going, what we're trying, what we're doing. And then when it comes time to maybe doing something differently than what we're just going to draft, develop, draft, develop, draft, develop,

okay, now we're going to start looking at a different way of augmenting the group. And when that comes, we'll see. But making sure that everyone's in line with that plan but being the person that's laying out that plan i think is exciting it's um it's it's it's difficult but it's it's it's it's a great opportunity to be able to carry that out and carry out a vision with the support that we do have internally for myself and our group so it's you know there it's i don't want to call it anything but positive and

and exciting from from my point of view i love the quote about managing scared don't manage scared so what's the scariest thing you had to manage oh i think that first well i think there's two two aspects i think it was managing through um you, that previous era of Blackhawks, you know, with, uh, you know, these club legends and hall of famers that, uh in Montreal, when we made some trades of some younger players that, that, you know, conceivably could have stuck around. Right. Those were really difficult.

And I was prepared. And I think, you know, to some extent, you know, understandably receive a rough ride based on some of the moves we made. But I felt it important to, you know, we wanted to build through the draft. We needed that draft capital.

And those happen to be the easiest ways and the most effective ways to access that capital. And so we went down that road and committed to it. And so, you know, but it's not, it's not all, you know, no one's throwing roses at you. No. And, and, uh, and I totally get, um, being my age and no one really knowing and probably still not really knowing who I am. Um, you're, you're not going to get the benefit of the doubt. And that's okay. But you walk into it understanding that and accepting that and knowing that, you know what, you're going to be second guessed until you're not. And, you know, I think even with the rebuild, you're going to be second guessed and doubted

until you're not. And it takes time and it takes a lot of um you know you have to show eventually you know like we're not showing it this year which is frustrating you know progress but uh there is progress happening it's just it's just a little bit uh under the surface right now so i tell anytime i'm asked to speak to young people who want to go into our business i tell them that the one thing that you really have to understand is a lot of things you have to understand that we learned. But the number one thing you have to understand is that everything that you do

good or bad, it's out there. The public sees it. There's no hiding. If I have a good show, everybody sees it. If I have a bad show or make a big mistake, everybody sees it. And what it eventually teaches you is I have a bad show or make a big mistake everybody sees it and what it

eventually teaches you is to have a thick skin but I think a lot of us say oh I have a thick skin when we're first doing it and then we realize it's not that thick because we just haven't experienced it so I was wondering like and also too like like I remember with my wife I said okay I have I have no rules for you but one rule I now have for you is you cannot respond to anybody who says anything about me on social media. Like that is the one rule I have for her. You cannot do that. And she begrudgingly accepts. So when you first started going through that and you started, I remember you traded Doc to Montreal.

Like I remember that. Like what was the hardest criticism you got? And what was the biggest challenge? How long did it take for you and those around you to really, truly accept that this was the way it was going to be? You know, if I look back, I think the initial... And I didn't track any of it. I knew what was coming.

And even to this day, not because I'm trying to avoid anything for myself. It's more so to avoid anything that's going to impact my thinking. Cut out the noise. Yes. And I've got my opinions. I've got the opinions of our group. I don't want to read anything that's going to stray away from that. You know, we've got a lot of opinions, people that aren't afraid to share their opinions

in our group. And so we're going to, you know, it's not a group scenario that we've got. And so I feel comfortable that we're going to get every piece of information we need out of the group we have internally. I don't need any other noise. And so around trade deadline, around draft, free agency, any of those big moments in the calendar, social media goes away. I get rid of it. And I let someone else on the staff, hey, if there's anything of interest you think I should know about around the league, just curiosity trades or anything like that, let me know.

You let me know. I don't need to be on there listening to what we need to do or how we can't do something. I don't need any of that. And I started that right away. So in that Montreal draft, it was gone. I didn't have it. So in that Montreal draft, it was gone. I didn't have it.

But I think I told the group, especially after we agreed it was the Debrinket trade to Ottawa. Probably can get roasted here. You know, like I just, you know, because I think I don't think it was something that people were necessarily expecting to happen. Right. And so it was it was something that we just we talked about and we knew was coming but um that's that's just the way it is and and the nature of social media and and society is that we need a winner and a loser and not only just a winner and a loser of every trade or signing or game or it's it's how big of a winner and how big of a loser everyone is. And there's no in-between.

There's no... We have to pile drive the loser. A hundred percent. You can't just be pinned to the mat. You have to be pile driven through the mat. Yes, yes. And everything is historical context, right? It's this player is the best player ever,

or this player is the worst, or this GM is the best. It's never player is the worst or this gm's the best or the worst it's never there's never any like responsible discourse right it's everything's extremes it's the extreme yes and so uh but that's that's the way things are and you have to understand that um probably more difficult for the families to understand yes then the people in it because we see it every day live it you, for some it doesn't make it any easier, but the families don't necessarily live in that universe, right? And they don't operate in that arena every day.

And so it's maybe tougher for parents or for spouses. And, you know, so that's probably the harder part than anything is, you know, yeah, I know this is the deal, but they don't always know this is the deal, right? And so, but I think I walked into this very understanding of what was coming my way, you know, here and there. You get good and you get bad. So you have almost like an in-season and like an off-season for social media. Like there are times where whether it's curiosity or entertainment, you'll flip it on, but the windows where it's gone away. Yeah, absolutely.

Interesting. Interesting. I imagine for, I mean, anyone in your position, the importance for an inner circle, like the process in finding that, I imagine makes such a difference for you and having the right people around you that you trust, whose opinions you trust. Absolutely. You know, I think, you know, building your team off the ice is it's it's integral and it's so important to building your team on the ice and having people that can tell you when you're barking up the wrong tree, feel comfortable telling you when you're wrong or when they think you're wrong and to give you a new perspective on things and to have people around you that have a skill set that supports you and is different than you to make sure you're getting that full worldview

of a, of a situation. So, you know, in, uh, my inner circle, I've got people that have, uh, you know, if it's Brian Campbell, he's played thousands, a thousand games over a thousand games in the NHL. Got Norm McIver, who's played in the NHL. He's been an assistant coach in the NHL. He's been management. You know, some of these things that these guys have experienced, things that I've never experienced, right? And so they can provide me and fill in my blind spots in areas that I may not have lived, but they have. And so I feel that's very important. And then, you know, at the time when I brought Jeff in, he filled this whole other experience in baseball and his view and insight into the construction of, you know, whether it be analytics departments or the systems but you know he was also a really smart hockey guy because he played and loved the the sport and always was always extremely

um uh in uh you know in tune with what was going on in in the game of hockey and so you know that was and then megan hunter's been around the game she her family so you know though that was and then Megan Hunter's been around the game she her family's you know hockey royalty and so she's been around the game she's seen a lot go on here and and you know is in tune with what's going on in league dealings and you know the central registry aspect of things and so you know it felt like I, you know, I have a really good team around me of people that can tell me what they think, because you foster that environment of honest discourse and honest opinion. And, and that's what, that's what I want. You need unvarnished opinions, you know, especially when they're divergent from what you're saying or a road

you may be going down and you may still go down that road but you need to hear everything uh that's in that room before you make the the decision that that's going to impact the organization what's the biggest fight you guys had? You know, I don't know. I think it's always like there's always like little, not little fights. It's more so it's probably around the draft, I'd say. I'd say those are the most heated discussions. You know, especially just where we're at and where how important the draft is um you know that i think that's just where you

know player specific opinions are where the most um where people dig in the most okay so let's go back to last year's draft you have the number two overall pick we all know who's going one you have you have an empty canvas how fierce was the the debate about Lev Shunov or somebody else? I don't know if it was, it never got to the point that it was fierce. It was just very drawn out because all we had was time, right? We have all this time to really understand the draft and really understand the players available,

how we want to fit that into our larger vision of team construction. And so we used that time and we really dug down on the players and it came down to a handful of players. And I feel like there was consensus in the end wasn't easy getting there um but we we did get there and uh so uh i don't necessarily know if it was last year's that was i don't say contentious it was never contentious but like you know it's more so i think in, in those mid-rounds or early rounds. I think our top picks have always been fairly, okay, we feel good about this.

But it's once you get into those other rounds where there aren't... I want to hear blood in the offices. No blood. No blood. No one over. I want to hear blood in the office. That's what I want to hear. Like Norm McIver is bleeding on a desk or something like that.

Oh, no. I think if you know Norm, there's other people bleeding. And that's what I love about. And that's why I think Norm and I have had such a great relationship over the years. And why i value his presence so much is he's going to tell you exactly what you think what he thinks sorry what he thinks um even if and especially if it's not what you think and so like he's going to tell you and he's going to tell me and we've got that very um open honest relationship where and same with brian same

with megan where if we walk into the room and he knows which way the wind's blowing on my end it doesn't matter if he thinks if he thinks something different yeah i'm going to hear about it and so that's that's what i want and that's to me that's healthy it's it wouldn't be healthy if he feels like oh no i think k I think Kyle likes Lev Shanoff, so let's all get on board. You know, it doesn't matter who I like because he's going to tell me who he likes. And we're going to work through this

and make sure we come to the best decision for the Blackhawks. And it's not about, when you get in that room, it's not about ego. It's not about, you know, you being right. It's about getting it right. And ego it's not about um you know you being right it's about getting it right right and so that's that's what everyone has in mind when we walk into those rooms to make decisions is we need the opinions we need we're everyone in that room's paid for their opinion so they better share it and and that's how we're gonna get the decisions right okay so you had a

deal where you the number four four, the pick with, I can't remember who it was now, Columbus, who took Lidstrom. Reportedly. Well, we're going to get to the bottom of this right here because I thought it was, like, I think about, well, involving, you know, Mike Ditka basically trading his whole draft for Ricky Williams when he was the coach of the Saints. The New York Islanders, when Columbus had the number two pick and it was Ryan Murray,

they offered their whole draft to Columbus for Ryan Murray and Columbus turned that deal down. So you had a big idea that you tried here with number four. And I wanted to take through like actually what happened and number two, just your process of it because it was bold. It would have really, like you talk about making, you know, building, building, building. That was a bold strike or bold attempt

for a team that was building. Yeah, and you know, I think every draft and the way I've approached every draft is trying to make sure we we're always maximizing our options and assessing whether it be, you know, looking at a number of drafts in one. And, okay, if we're sitting here a year from now, and, you know, where would we put player ABC in another draft? And that kind of thing, right? You're always assessing your options both on the floor at that time

and in the future. on the floor at that time and in the future and so um just i you know had discussions with a couple teams and you're you're just trying to target um you're trying to target options that you feel are advantageous to you whether you were to obtain them now or if you were to put them in a future draft and obtain them down the road it's just you know you want to strike when when you feel is is uh optimal for you and and so you're always trying to play out those options okay how close did it get because the one we heard was your i think it was your first next year and maybe your second next year for their fourth overall pick, which was Columbus.

How close did it get? I'm not sure, to be honest, because nothing happened. And we had other stuff going down the line, and nothing happened. So I guess it's... How many teams did you try with? Like, you're always trying, right? And so, like, I don't know, a handful. See, I think that's...

Yeah. I think it's really interesting. Because there's not a lot of teams that are in your position that would do that. And especially now, when you think about it, there's a chance you could have the number one pick again this year would you is there any part of you who is like thankfully that didn't work out because we wouldn't want to be in that position this year no no no because you're

always you know when when you're you know you know it's it's know, even just take it like take away scenario work. It's, you're, again, we're going back to the not managing scared. If you're, especially like just take young players, right? If you're trading away young players, there is the chance that, and you want it to occur in a way because you don't want, when you trade away a young player, I don't want that player to go flop. I want that player to have a great like I like all these people. You like all these people.

You want them to be successful, you know, but the discourse is always going to be there where, you know, yeah, that player could go and excel somewhere else. Something else could happen where like that asset or that player you trade away does really, really well. And that, you have to be okay with that. And you almost, again, when it comes to, if you're trading picks, like you don't know what that, you don't know that person, you don't know, you know, but when you're trading a prospect or a player,

you want that person to have success. Like, I don't, a player, you want that person to have success. Like, I don't, you know, you assume they will and you have to bake that into the pie. Yeah, you have to bake that in and understand that as, you know, a risk to the optics around a trade, which I think that's how you that's how you almost like paralyze yourself in a situation. um you know you have to understand that this could happen you know supposedly bad something bad could happen that you trade this player away and they just crush it on the other team and then you know everyone goes back and does a retrospective and like oh my gosh it was this this, this, this, this, this for that. And look at how good this thing was that they traded away,

which that happens and that's okay. You have to understand that what you're doing has purpose and what you're getting has value for you and you believe that piece that you're receiving is going to make you better. And so that's what I focus on. I don't focus on the what could happen because that has to be baked in. And so that's what, that's what I focus on. I don't focus on the, the what could happen because that has to be baked in. Otherwise it's reckless. And so, um, you have to understand that what you could be giving away could be something really, really valuable. And that's, you know, there's risk in, in everything you do. And so you have

to understand that. So will you miss the in-person drafts uh yeah yeah you know there's there's an energy in a you know a you know but i i just think back to that that draft at the sphere last year that was awesome that was incredible yeah and so um you know i i do see the value um internally that that we will likely receive in doing it in person and or sorry, remote and in our own space and with our own tech and, you know, maybe more people in the room and people involved than you would have at a table. Having said that, how often do, you know, do we get to sit down on the floor and in a full arena or, you know, whatever facility like this, like, you know, sphere down in Las Vegas and once a year and live that for ourselves, right? I'm not, I'm not oblivious to the fact that that's a really unique experience that that I'm very thankful that I had you know I think back to that Montreal draft where the last time the draft was in Montreal I was there because I was a fan but I

also wanted to work in the NHL and so I was sitting in the stands and the next time it was at the draft I was sitting at the table as a GM of the Blackhawks. And that's special. And I don't think that's something any manager should lose, you know, is the appreciation for what that represents. You know, there's only 32 of these jobs. You have to respect it. You have to appreciate it. And that draft on the floor is a very unique, special part of the job that I'm glad I got to experience it and that draft on the floor is a very unique special part of the job that i'm i'm glad i got to experience it i don't know if it'll change back um you know i do see the benefit of of the the remote option for for us um but i am glad i got i i was given this job prior to it going remote and and i got to live the on on the floor experience.

OK, it's a terrible decision. I still know it's a terrible decision. OK, I want to ask about Anders Sorensen. So I think that's a name that a lot of the hockey world is still learning about. I wonder, since he's come and you mentioned there's some optimism you're seeing here under the surface. He's been with your organization for a little bit in Rockford. But what's been kind of the best parts or some of the hopeful aspects since he's come aboard here with the Hawks? Yeah, you know, I think the one thing that he's really brought and we saw in Rockford, and not to say that it wasn't present before, but Anders is very, very specific on what he wants,

what he expects, what we will do and what we can't do. And he's very black and white. And he's also got some really unique ideas on things like offense, jittering offense and and how how he thinks that can occur and his um you know one-on-one relationship with players he really likes getting in the mix with guys and showing them video and and and establishing those relationships and um i i just think he's you know he's a coach at heart and he likes teaching and he likes communicating and and transferring knowledge and you know the the exchange of of uh of knowledge as well with the

players and so i think that's a really unique dynamic that he's fostering and um you know he came in at a time in our schedule and in the league schedule where there just wasn't a ton of practice and so that's been a little tough you know someone that's a teacher that the best teaching opportunities in practice on the ice with the players right and we just haven't had a ton of that but uh i think the the small sample size that he's gotten is you know we've seen some nice changes to to some of the systematic things that he's trying to implement. And you can sense that optimism that a new voice brings and a new set of ideas brings and a new way of doing things can present. And so, you know, he needs some time to continue to teach and continue to implement.

And, you know, hopefully we can see that translate on the ice. Would it be fair to say it's his job to lose? I don't. I think it's too early to say that. You know, I think he's someone we just think very highly of and someone that will absolutely remain with the organization after this um you know but we want him to the reason we went with him is because we thought he earned the shot and i say that i say we because it's it was a very collective across the board agreement that he deserves a shot at doing

this and um you know the work that he's put in the growth that and the growth mindset that he has as a coach as well is something that we we really appreciated internally he's always trying to get better always trying to you know gain new insights and gain new ways of of translating that message and teaching the players and, and, and, and motivating the players. And so that's, that growth mindset is something that we want within our veterans, our young players. We, we always want our players to strategy better and he's someone that does that himself. And so he's, you know, leading by example. And, um, and so, you know, I think he wouldn't have, he wouldn't have gotten this opportunity if we didn't think that there was a preparedness to take it on. And so, you know, he's definitely going to get an on-the-job, you know, practical, I don't know if you call it interview or audition for sure.

And he's getting that right now. I don't know if you call it interview or audition for sure. And he's getting that right now. And so, but I think, you know, his to lose and all that is too early. And it's a process that we want to run. We want to run that process. We want to get to know, you know, what's out there, what thought processes are out there and how people approach the position, how they think about it and how they think about our situation and what we've got going on.

And so that's something we will do, and we'll see how the remainder of the year goes. But I would think it's safe to say that he'll be part of that process. It's almost like a dire election of duty but we've been here for this long we haven't mentioned conor bedard yet you know i the the thing i want to ask is um again it's a conversation i was having with another manager and when you have like a real franchise cornerstone like a franchise player and one of the things and this is an older manager and he said you know there was a time when those guys had almost no say.

And now you have to respect that whether it's them or their representative or whoever it is, they have a lot of say. So how much do you run things, because he's still a young kid learning the league, how much do you run things by him? You know, I think we talk quite a bit. You know, I think there's always a open dialogue

uh you know and and it's not just connor there's there's there's a number of players that i like to have that open dot yep yeah open dialogue with about um understanding what we're doing you know where we're going you know you know hey you know we might um you know we might have to do this or might have to do that you know like whatever just make sure that there's um i don't want to say i i don't want people to necessarily be surprised you know and and just to keep you know out of respect, keep certain people within the organization and players fall into that category, apprised with my thinking and where not only individually, but as a group and where we're moving forward. And so there's always that dialogue.

you know, I think there's also an understanding that has to be taken into account of, you know, he's got a lot going on, right? And he's probably got a lot of, you know, things coming at him and you don't want to throw too much, but you want to respect, you know, what he uh for us now and moving forward and so there there has to be some sort of dialogue and and relationship there that um that i feel needs to you know it has been built but continues uh to grow and and and as he grows in his career i think that communication will get more robust and more um perhaps in depth i will kind of just see how how things goes but i think it's important to make sure that there's an exchange of communication there. Absolutely. What does he ask you?

Like, what kinds of things does he ask you? I think he asks more about like himself, like just what he can do to continue to improve. Right. And that's something that I really appreciate about Connor is that it's he just wants to take care of what he can take care of you know he's focused on making sure he's doing the best he can and and and you know making sure he's improving himself it's it's it's you know and then he's always asking about like you know he'll he'll ask about how some of the prospects are doing and how they're looking and and you know because he's formed relationships with these players

either at training camps or development camps or the draft, and, you know, how they do and how they look in. And there's a general interest there because he loves hockey, loves the sport, and loves to know what's going on. He knows what's going on in the junior leagues, super in tune with, you know, especially the Regina Pats and how they're doing and and so um you know I think that's uh he just has a curiosity of what's going on elsewhere in the hockey world that I might be seeing and um you know we always kind of have

a pretty active dialogue officially around world junior time too so he so there's not too much like I read on Twitter that player x could be available is he a fit? He doesn't send you those texts? No. He doesn't say go out and get this guy or go out and sign that guy? No, no. I think he's always, I think just being a hockey fan, something will happen around the league. It's not just Connor again.

It's the group. It's like, oh, what do you think about that? What do you think about, what is your think about you know uh what is your opinion on this and how does that happen or you know very interested in like the the mechanics of of of you know how things work and how things happen and you're curious about you know the different nuances around retention and that kind you know just just um you know sort of procedural questions so he's thinking about trades in his head. Like if we can, if we can retain. I think he's thinking about when he like, you know, he's a GM in 40 years or something

like that or however, you know, so he'll only be what, 59 at that time. That's right. Just retired. Yeah. Yes. Yes. But well, because you mentioned just he's a guy that has a lot going on. And I just wonder, like, at any point earlier in the season,

were you ever worried, like, okay, is there, like, almost too much going on around Bedard at any certain point? Beginning of last year, I remember. Yeah, I think the beginning of last year more so than anything, where, yeah, it was what it was. It was exciting for everyone. It was exciting for the league, the industry, you know, it was what it was. It was exciting for everyone. It was exciting for the, the, the league, the industry, like everything, right? He was making his debut and we went on

that. It felt like a media tour, uh, to start the year. It was, you know, Pittsburgh, Boston, Montreal, Toronto, like, oh my goodness. You know, like that was, that was a lot. And, um, That was a lot. And so I was, you know, I was very cognizant of, you know, let's check in. You know, you can say no to things. You know, we want to provide as much access as we can, but he also can't do too much where it's impacting his job. But that's also part of um experience right you understand what is too much um the grind of the season how you need to measure your output on things outside of practice and games to make sure that that you're able to perform to the best of

your capability and and so um i think there's just a little bit of having to go through that and understand that from his perspective and feel that. But I was, you know, you want to check in at those times. This year, I don't think so. You know, when he went on a little bit of a slow patch there from a point perspective. I think I was more annoyed than anything for him. You know, there's nothing you can really do to, you know,

he's going to work himself through that. You understand that's going to happen. And I also understand that those periods are going to happen for a young player. But, you know, I think it got, because of who he is and the profile that he carries, you know, I think it was a little much it was overboard and and all the asking and and people talking about it and i understand it but i think it was i think it was a little excessive you know the one that was tough for me to watch and i remember we did that game was when you guys went into vancouver and he just looked so devastated at the end of that game like i felt i felt terrible just watching him at the end of that game and i was did you say anything to him

like how do you handle it how do you help him in those moments yeah i from my perspective i like you do check in but i think there's also feel in that you're not the only person asking him those things right right there is so like whether it's every time he does an interview whatever you know probably buddies back home guys that former teammates you know family you know like everyone everyone's probably asking the same thing so you know yes it's important in my position to check in on that but i also think it's important to not pile on and because you know what's he gonna say right if it's a tough night it's a tough night you know that happens and and i i think the

best remedy for that is just to get back out there and just to to keep to keep playing keep pushing um trying to put the work in and put his best foot forward to, to kind of, you know, get, get on a positive, a positive run. And so, um, you know, you always do want to check in and you want to make sure that you're being attentive there, but someone in his situation, which is unique, I, I, I'm also aware of how much he's probably being asked that exact same question. And you're confident he's on board with everything that you're planning here, right? Yes. Yes. Yeah.

That's probably the most important thing that Chicago Blackhawks fans would want to know. Yeah. Yeah, of course. And again, like you, you want to be respectful of understanding the situation. Like, look, I don't I don't want to be in 32nd place. He doesn't want to be in 32nd place. No one does. And so, you know, understanding what else is happening in the organization, you know, what we're thinking moving forward,

all of that is very important for him to understand to some extent and you know because you know you can't you're not going to run hypotheticals and and you know we're going to do this so we're going to do that and you know when you know no like you know i'll tell you what's happening and what i know not what could be you know it's that's i think that's where you you get your you know head out over your skisis, and then that's just false until you see a deliverable on that. So it's explaining how things are going in Rockford, how the prospects are doing. And Frank's looking really good in Rockford, and he's leading rookie scoring, and he could have so many more points, helping him understand.

And Artie Levshinov's looking great, and Kevin's taking a – Korchinski's taking a big step forward, and then he'll ask about the guys in college. So there's a good dialogue there in understanding what's coming and also understanding that, you know, I, you know, you can't always just wait for just the wave to come. Right. You have to be proactive at some point and be interested and hungry to push, you know. to push, you know, and so, you know, we'll, you know, we're always open and seeing what's, what's available and what could be done in terms of trying to, you know, push things forward in a different way. But that's less, that's less tangible than, than looking at players saying, look, this player has really taken a step. He's getting close, you know, that I can say in 100% certainty when i when i

talk to a player and so making sure there's an understanding of the full picture there organizationally is important okay last one for me looks like temperatures could be pretty mild come tuesday hopefully we avoid the rain but you're from sudbury i want to know like the coldest elements you have ever played hockey in when you were growing up? Oh, I used to play in the outdoor rink all the time. And I remember, I still remember coming home after playing out in the rink and getting the hot bath going and sticking your frozen feet in there and just the pain of your toes falling out. And, you know, it's, yeah, but, you know, I've been, look, and everyone asks me, you know, when I'm talking to friends back home and you're saying like, oh, you know, there's, we've got five feet of snow here and it's freezing cold and, you know, school's canceled.

And they're like, how's Chicago? And I'm like, you know, I can see the grass still. You know, it's not that bad here. But I've gotten used to what's going on here. And so I'll go back home. You know, maybe I'm up scouting and get up to Sudbury and just like, this is a different kind of winter. This is a different level up here. And so, you know, I've gotten used to Chicago winters, which can be bad at times,

but it's not Sudbury winter. And so I'll definitely take the Chicago winters over Sudbury. Who were you on that outdoor rink? Like when you played, who were you? Oh boy, I wasn't that good. No, but you, like I sucked, but I was someone. I tried to be Guy Lafleur, but like I was definitely not Guy Lafleur.

You know what? I think for me Guy Lafleur, but I was definitely not Guy Lafleur. You know what? I think for me, being a Canadian kid, it was probably whoever the hot shot at World Juniors was at the time. It's funny. We were having a conversation. This was back when I think we drafted Connor. We were talking about number 98 being a unique number. I think we drafted Connor and we were talking about, you know,

number 98 being a unique number. And the first time I got to pick a number, I was number 98. And that was because, and I hope I'm right on this, because it's a little fuzzy at this point. It was a long time ago. World Juniors one year, Alan McCauley became, like, my new favorite new favorite player really he wore 98 for the auto 67s and so i so you know it's like it was always a year by year thing but um i believe alan mccauley wore number 98 for the auto 67s and so you know he and he had a great world junior i think he was captain that year and so oh you know the next year i don't remember 98

and so it was always kind of who that world junior star was right um which is kind of interesting coming into this blackhawks when i did my introduction to the blackhawks in a way was jonathan daves at world juniors and how outstanding he was right that was you know the coming out party really for Jonathan was his performance at those World Juniors and so um you know I was a little older I wasn't you know I wasn't him on the outdoor rink but you know when I was younger um you know it was those players at World Juniors that you know you'd hunker down with family and friends and watch those games religiously right Right. And those would be your favorite players for, you know,

those couple of weeks. And then you'd carry that in and out in the outdoor rink. You're, you're staying out a little bit longer because of that, that passion that you'd get around Christmas time around world juniors. Right. You know what, when Bedard said he was taking 98,

he just said, sorry, that's taken from me. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Get out of sorry, that's taken from me. You'd be like, okay, get out of here. Here's my last one. So I was asking a couple of your peers about you, and here's what they said.

They said, that's a room full of sharks. Kyle Davidson comes in. He's the youngest guy. He's the newest guy. And he walked in like he was 6'6", and he'd been doing it for 40 years. Like they said, you had a confidence around you that, I don't know if they would say they weren't expecting it, but they were like, he's coming in here to show that

even though he's newer, he's not going to be pushed around by a group of alphas do you remember first walking into that room and were you nervous like was there like an intimidation or anything like that i wasn't nervous i think the thing that threw me off so are you talking about gm meeting yes like yes yes so the first gm meeting i walked into and i you know and again like maybe it's just um i don't know maybe it was just kind of a dumb move on my part i think in retrospect it was a dumb move on my part but i you know you get the agenda it says casual and so i just you know wore some like purple like button-down shirt with a rolled up sleeves and lulu pants and i walk in everyone's wearing like

suit no tie i'm like and i think and i walk in everyone's wearing like suit no tie i'm like and i think and i'm just like what the hell is this and i was like i got there early enough where i ate breakfast ran upstairs and put a different outfit on and came back but that was a little bit of a tough start for me because i'm uh you know i'm uh you know it's first time in there and you want to make a good impression like okay dummy wear wear a suit you know and i didn't and so i went back up and put it on and came back down right um so that was a bit of a rough start maybe in my own head you know it was bigger deal than probably yes yeah and uh and so you know it just that was that was my first walk into that and you know i don't know if i was nervous it's just you don't know what you're walking into right um i had gotten i'd probably gotten the job three weeks before that yes full time and so

you're just you're in the wind tunnel and stuff's just flying at you right and you get through trade deadline and then there's the gm meeting and you're just you're going in and and you just don't know what to expect and so i don't know if i was nervous it was more so just uh you know and i didn't go in there trying to or or into any calls trying to you know portray this confidence i just you know i don't know maybe i did maybe i didn't but i just i think i had a plan and what i want to do and and and tried to execute on that and just go from there. But I don't know.

It's interesting to hear that. Well, first of all, it's interesting to hear about the underdress because I do that all the time. But it was interesting to me. I think whenever there's a new manager and obviously you didn't know as many of the people, they're kind of sitting there wondering, are we going to be able to pick this guy apart? It's kind of like the new kid in school, right? And so, like, it was just interesting that they thought you came in very confidently and they didn't know what to expect. Right, right.

Yes. Yeah, no, I understand that. Like, because, again, I, you know, I wouldn't say relative unknown. I'd say complete unknown. You know, I just didn't have those relationships. I'd been in the league longer than most people probably thought i was totally behind the scenes and totally you know under the cover of darkness and and you know it just it was it it would you know i it was a very unique way i came into it right and it wasn't um you know that my name had been in...

Some people, their names are in meetings, or sorry, interviews and that was not the case for me, right? And so it was... I was an unknown and they didn't know what to think of me and I was... I don't know how old I was at the time. 33, probably looked 23

and, you know, like it's... What the heck's going on here right and so i understand you know the just what are we going to get here when we get on the phone with this guy or meet him and you know so um but my my thought process was just you know what i i kind of i kind of know what i want to do i'm confident in my understanding of where i want to go with this and i i hope that will prevail in the end. It sounds like there's a real opportunity to break the mold there, right? Like casual doesn't have to mean

just drop the tie, right? There can be more playing around with that. I love that that's what you're having. Your pants are very comfortable. Yes, yes. He's got a great story for you. You know, I think there was a little bit of uh you know um inexperience there a visual example of inexperience at play where it's like you know what

why didn't you wear the suit no time what are you thinking so you know you know i think that's it it's funny to think back on that now and I won't make that mistake again. Oh, great. Kyle, you've been really good with your time. All the best, Wrigley, here on Tuesday and the rest of the journey for you guys. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. All right. So pleased to be joined by Darren Pang, one of the voices here in Chicago, doing your work with TNT. How big is your job list these days? I mean, man, it seems like you always have something on the go. No, Pangra Vision is gone.

It's long gone. You know, at this time last year, I also had a podcast with Catherine Tappan that we did, Back to You. And we're going to start it in the new year and focus more on hockey this year. Last year, we thought we'd bring it you know we had john ham and uh we had comedians we had artists we had you know a lot of different conversations but the common denominator was that the guys still liked hockey they wanted to talk about hockey so that was great but anyway so that would have been one more thing but really tnt is every wednesday and um in march it goes wednesday sunday Sunday. But if it conflicts and there's a really

big game that the Hawks, you know, that they, I would know if it's a big game and I would ask TNT and they'd say, not a problem. You know, like last year when Chris Celli was retired on a Sunday at five o'clock, you know, it was a big moment for the organization and it was a big broadcast. And sure enough, Michelle over at TNT, she's like i totally understand you know when uh rick ball uh returned to calgary i didn't even look at the schedule and i and she's like you got to be there with rick ball he's returning to calgary and uh so i missed a game on wednesday so they're they're really good that way um and then and then i do uh roughly 50 hawks games. And I bought a place right here about eight minutes from here. We're in the River North area.

And so I've got that in a little place in Michigan that's about four hours and 10 minutes away. And one thing I've learned is that all of that is easier than being a grandparent, right? Like when you're actually, not when you can leave the kids and your kids have to deal with them, but when you actually have to discipline them and handle them, that's the hardest thing you're dealing with right now. Elliot, it's the most fun you could ever have. A month ago, I was in New Jersey with my son, and he's got three little girls that are all under the age of four and a half. And so in St. Louis, my daughter has three, five, three, and almost two months. And yes, I would say to everybody out

there, especially around Christmas time, go to grandpa bootcamp, like figure out a bootcamp, do some lunges, do some lifts, you know, get the pipe strong and grab on and also add a, add a drop of patience because yeah, I mean, they're just little, they're just a little, they're not even kids. They're, you know, really, they're just, they're so little and they're so charming and then they, they have a meltdown. So then, really, they're so little and they're so charming. And then they have a meltdown, and that's when you can walk away and let the parents take care of it. They run your show. You don't want any part of that.

It's all like the old school way. It's just like, okay, I've got to back off, take a deep breath. And then they come back, and it's amazing. A minute and a half later, it's like everything's all calm. Hey, Grandpa, how's everything going? It's great. I love being called Grandpa, and all my grand uh call me grandpa and my wife lynn grandma oh that's awesome that's the best congratulations so i when i think about you and i wanted to ask you about

this so my earliest memory i think i think of you i'm asking if this is true so when i was a kid i grew up in tor. I couldn't often go to Leaf games. It just wasn't feasible. But I did go to a bunch of Marley games. Played in the afternoon. In the afternoon. And the Leafs would play that night. Yeah. And so one thing I remember was you were an original Belleville Bull. Yeah.

And there was a goaltender for the Belleville Bulls named Ken Porteus. Yeah. And I went to a game, Belleville and Toronto, and there was a huge brawl. Marty McSorley, I remember, was in the middle of it. Like always. I was about 10 or 11 years old. I don't remember exactly.

How old are you? I'm 54. Oh, okay. But I remember that goalie, Ken Porteus. Have you thought it was higher or lower? For sure higher. That goalie, Ken Porteus. Have you thought it was higher or lower? For sure higher.

Ken Porteus, he got suspended for like half a season. And I remember him watching a goalie fight, and I think he pummeled the other goalie he was up against. But I was thinking, you were in Belleville that year for half the year, I think. Were you on that team? I was on that team were in Belleville that year for half the year, I think. Were you on that team? I was on that team. That was the first year. That was the inaugural Larry Mavity expansion year.

And we didn't have Ken at the beginning of the year. And I'm not sure, but I think Larry Mavity, he was either tired of me not being able to fight the other goalie in all the warm-ups we had. And he decided we needed to get tougher in the net so he brought port uh he brought portuguese over kenny porteous and i've heard i heard it ken and i'd watched him play and i i thought he was a really good goalie but i didn't realize the snap factor of ken porteous like he he had it in him like he was like a modern day ron hexall at the time, when Hexie just wanted to get involved, you know. If the game wasn't going well, Hexie would do something to change it around. Well, this Ken Porte is the same thing, and it was – he beat the heck out of Bruce Dowie, who was a really good goalie.

Bruce Dowie reminded me of, like, Mike Palmatier. He had the molded mask. He looked so great. You're playing at Maple Leaf Gardens, and he's got – just the uni looked great, and he was so acrobatic. And I remember Ken going down there and hitting him so hard. And he had the molded mask with the eye holes, which none of us had, or maybe very few at that time. And he got hit so hard with the blocker and his face was cut open.

And then the fight kept going and it ended up in the locker rooms, in the medical rooms. Penalty box. In the penalty box in one area. And I think Steve Thomas might have been part of that team on the Toronto side. There was a lot of really good players on that Toronto side. And then we had, you mentioned one guy, I mean, Marty McSorley, but we had Danny Quinn, who was the first overall pick the year before. And he wasn't, you know, he was fairly skinny and that wasn't't kind of his game either we had a bunch of guys that were just kids

dunk mcintyre myself uh danny quinn and man uh rob crocock i remember i remember rob and like we're we weren't really into this uh brawling everybody we also had a guy named craig cox he was a walk-on from california and slogan, I love Cox. I keep in touch with him to this day. And his slogan is always like, happy days, man. Happy days. And he's, you know, six foot five and 210 pounds and happy days. Let's go. And he was right in the middle of that one too. So we had some really tough players on our team. We tried to intimidate everybody. Well, that must've been the craziest one though. For a goalie, it was actually suspended half the year. It was actually scary. That was the scariest one because I thought, what if I get dragged?

What if I get dragged down the hallway and I just get the pulp kicked out of me? Like, that's not going to be good. Well, because earlier I was, Darren Kosar, that played for Niagara Falls, did do just that, beat the pulp right out of me. I had a welt so bad, my mask came out, he came from the other end.

I was trying to help out my teammate, Scotty Gardner, and it was just a bad beating, like a really bad beating. So I heard a story, and tell me if this is true or not, and I don't know if it was that one or another case where a line ball had broken out and you had jumped in to defend your teammates. The other goalie comes the length of the ice and he catches you pretty good, but he could have continued to pile on, and he stopped. And apparently the story was your mom found this other goalie in the hotel the next day and thanked him for not killing her son.

You are so right on the mark. My mom was saying it like the days in in Belleville or whatever it was. And she's watching this game. I think a couple of friends of mine from Ottawa came to watch as well, and she just couldn't. I mean, it was awful. I think a couple of friends of mine from Ottawa came to watch as well. And she just couldn't. I mean, it was awful. I got the video of it. I'll show you guys because it is a bad video of me getting.

And by the very end, he hit me so hard and so hard and so hard. He finally grabbed me. He said, don't ever do that again. Don't ever do that again. Ever do that again. Jump into a fight like that. They were fighting. He gave me.

He reprimanded me. He basically stood me up. I had a welt so bad on my were fighting. He reprimanded me. He basically stood me up. I had a welt so bad on my helmet. I had to go back in the net. For some reason, I wasn't kicked out. I put my mask back on. It was just so sore. It was so sore. You're right. The next morning, my mom saw

a team leaving. She asked somebody, where's the goalie? They're like, well, that's the goalie that played last night. And she went over. She said, my name's Donna Pang. My son's Darren. You fought him last night, and I just want to thank you for not really beating up that bad.

You seemed to stop. And my mom was real thankful for it. Do you remember who it was? It was Darren Kosar. Darren Kosar. Yeah, Darren Kosar. That was that night. And I think he's an East Coast native.

I think he's Nova Scotia, somewhere like that. And, and anyway, well, yeah, we were locked in for the rest of my life. My mom, my mom, he thought my mom was going to be mad. My mom was happy. He didn't beat me up worse than what it was. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Well, I mean, cause like, I remember I would go back to like the hockey news and the Western league, they'd have 10 guys with 500 penalty mats. The Western League was insane. But people forget Ontario back then. You really had to fight your way through that league.

But I remember also, too, I think you mentioned that was Belleville's first year. That was the first year they got a team. And didn't you win the first game there ever? Yeah, we won the first game at home against Kingston and Kingston had a 15 year old under underager Kirk Muller so he was allowed to be an underager because he was from Kingston I think there was some kind of rule set back then almost like a protected player right and then Podvent would have been with the 67s right he played right yeah yeah like five years uh Steve Merringer, same thing, another small defenseman.

But yes, so I gave up seven goals, had seven goals against average, and won. W. I'm 1-0. Fabulous. We won 12-7. They don't ask you how. They ask you how many. I told our guys before the game, if you get me eight, we got ourselves a win. Now that's a goalie I want to play for.

That was fantastic. Yeah, those were fun times. But you've got to remember that Belleville was the only team in all of the CHL that had a 100 by 200 rink. The surface was Olympic surface. And, you know, I know they thought that I played against them, long story short, but I was playing for the Nepean Raiders tier two. Steve Iserman was on my team, Mark Patterson. Those were our underage guys. And we lost out to Gloucester, Gary Galley

and a group in Gloucester. Well, after the game, they were allowed to pick up a player. So I get a knock, we get a knock on the door. We've just lost to these guys and we were the, we were the league champions. So we were kind of upset by them. And, uh, and they asked if I would consider joining Gloucester and, uh, be on their roster for the rest of the way. So remember a guy named Charlie Henry? Yes. One of Wayne Gretzky's greatest friends. And as things, things turn out, I ended up, you know, playing for Wayne because he bought Belleville. And Charlie Henry was always around. And so anyway, Charlie did me a favor, I guess, by bringing me.

And we ended up beating Joliet. And I played the games there. We beat them in seven games. We went against Belleville. And I didn't play all the games. Jeff Cooper played probably three of the seven. I got hit in the forehead with a slap shot that cut me open for about 15. I was rushed to the hospital.

And then I played the next game somehow. We don't have a concussion protocol back then. And then we lost in game seven, I think in double overtime. And Belva went on to the Centennial Cup at the time. And we're shaking hands. And the owner was Doc Vaughn. And he shook my hand. And he said, look around, young man.

You're coming back. And so they made me the first goalie chosen. That's how I ended up in Belville. But long story short, I was kind of a smaller rink goalie. Not 100 by 200. You know, that's set for big goalies that stay deeper in their net, you know, have a good sense of angles. I was a total reaction, reflex, somewhat acrobatic guy,

and I really had a hard time in that big ice service. That was maybe a mistake on their part. Just because you played decently well in a seven-game series, it was no good for me. So you end up winning the Memorial Cup later. With Ottawa. Got traded the next year. You got traded.

So did you know that you'd be going back home? Never. Not a chance in fact my last game playing for Larry Mavity was in Sudbury and a good friend of mine Jeff Brown another Ottawa guy uh Jeff Brown scored three on me his only hat trick he said he had in the Ontario Hockey League and we were walking off the ice in Sudbury and if you've ever been there it's a long walk from the the way you exit to your locker room. And I'm walking. I feel like I'm terrible. I've got no confidence.

I'm beat up. And gave up seven. He kept me in for the whole game. And I'm walking. And he steps right beside me, Larry Mavity, which I love Mavity. He called me short ass. And he says, all I hear is his voice, deep. Me short ass.

Just like that. Me short ass. That's the last game you're ever playing for me you're gone so i walk we got the bus ride like the bus rides like how how far is it and i we we get on the bus we go back i'm i'm just really beat up and uh we get back home um i don't go to school the next morning. They're calling for me. I show up at school, and they're like, Darren, Larry Maverty wants to see you. Go to Mav's house.

Sit down. I just traded you. Just like he said. And he had the phone right there, and he said, where would you like to go? The Windsor Spitfires? I was like, they weren't a very good team at that time. I'm like, no, Matt, that'll kill me. And he goes, or the Ottawa 67s.

And I was literally like, you've got to be kidding me. The Ottawa 67s? And he goes, I traded you to Ottawa. So he did you a favor. He knew. He tinkered with me and toyed with me. And, you know, I think that Killer called him and said, hey, let's make a deal. I'm going to bring him back home.

And so it was the best thing ever. Killer says to me right away, I know you're cocky, Pang, but I'm going to ask anyway. You didn't play very good in Sudbury, but we're playing tonight in Kingston. You think you should play for me? I said, of course I should play. That's why you traded for me. He goes, I knew you'd say that you're in tonight. So, you know, somebody with the Bulls drove me to Kingston, got unpacked, joined my new team and we win the game. I'm first star. I'm on the back of the bus playing cards with the boys. And it's like, I've known them forever. It was the start of something great.

And I've often told killer, cause I was just at his 90th birthday I said you saved my life you say you did wow wow I like what that's become yeah so what's your best killer story like what's the oh geez you probably have a billion well they're all they're all uh on the border so you kind of can't even go there anymore because it you know you wouldn't want to make killer look look bad because at the time he said things. Right. You know, he just said things that, you know, I could have, you know. Okay, he said things like, happy birthday to you, Pang, because we had a party in Sudbury and I turned, what, 19, I guess my second year or whatever. And me and Darcy Roy were trying to clean up our hotel room

and he got wind that the hotel room was a little bit of a mess because we had a little party. And then we went into the Sioux and he started me and I didn't play very well. And he pulled me and he comes in the room after the first period and he looks around and I'm like, oh boy, here we go. I didn't know that he knew about the room. Happy birthday to you, Pang. And then he says, then he looks up, you know, there's those big pucks in, actually in Sault Ste. Marie,

there was these huge pucks, almost like in Ottawa, there was on this, kind of a, I don't know what you would even call it, a shelf that's overlooking. He said,

you couldn't have stopped. That puck that's up on that goddamn roof. You know, like he just kept going and going. That would have gone through your legs too.

And he just wouldn't stop on me. And it was like, I got you, coach. I got you. And we won the Memorial Cup. We had a great team. We stuck together. He was great for me. He knew how to tweak me.

He knew how to build me up. He knew how to break me down. When I was full of myself, which happened a lot, he knocked me right down. When I was empty, he brought me right back up. No coach I've ever seen could make a big deal out of an average save, maybe a slightly above average save, in the third period of a 4-1 game and let people believe that that was the save of the game. And you believed it.

He made you believe it. That's how great he was. Salesman. Yeah, just unbelievable. Best coach ever. What do you remember it. That's how great he was. Salesman. Yeah, just unbelievable. Best coach ever. What do you remember about the Memorial Cup? I remember winning. Okay.

Because it was different back then. I remember a lot because we had to go. It's on our Memorial Cup rings. We had to go 11-0-1 to get in because Kitchener was hosting. So we had to win the league championship to get in. And so we had to play them in an eight-point series to – Do you know what these were? Eight-point series?

So these were – I remember these as a kid. Yeah, it wasn't a best of seven. It was an eight-point. It wasn't a best of seven. First eight points. First eight points. So if there was a tie – You got one point each.

It was a one point. That was our 11-0-1-1. Yeah. Yeah. Series could go longer than seven games. Oh, wow. Yeah. It was crazy.

WHL one time had a best of nine. Yes, I do remember that. Oh, my God. Those eight-point series were awesome. Well, we didn't know. The circus took our rink, so I think we might have played a couple of games in ours and the rest of them in theirs, and we beat them, and we were on a roll. So what do I remember about the Morro Cup?

I remember a couple of things. I remember all the buses sort of arrived at the same time. We all went into the arena and this was before it started, kind of a presentation of the teams. And I remember Mary Lemieux getting off the – he was with the Voisin, Laval Voisin, right? And I just remember looking at him and going, that's him, huh? Like we all knew he had 282 points.

I knew all the numbers. I'm like, that's him. And he just looked so big. He just looked so distinguished. Like he looked so mature. And then, you know, he walked in, shoulders out, boom. And then, you know, Kamloops, I just remember, you know, I've never played anybody out west, so, you know, got to in, shoulders out, boom. And then, you know, Kamloops, I just remember, you know, I've never played anybody out west, so, you know,

got to see the guys on Kamloops. Didn't know a whole lot about them. And we knew Kitchener, you know. I mean, John Tucker, my good friend Wayne Presley was on that team. And they had a really good team. And so, anyway, that was what I remembered. I remember seeing Mario. And then we went in.

We played them first. And he scored one goal in the Mora Cup, and it was against me. And it was right through my legs, and killer, as consistent as he is, I'd played all the games going in. So I was on a roll, and I was out of gas, and he knew it. So we're down in the game 3-1, and I give up that goal, and he sits me on the bench. that goal. And he sits me on the bench and he tells, he tells people that, um, he tells people that his assistant coach, Gord Hamilton, he said to people, Gord, don't look at him. Gord said, okay, I won't look at him. Don't look at him. If you look at him, he's going to come right at you. So that's me coming to the bench being pulled. I was a little feisty and, uh, nobody looked at me.

He said, just give me a second. Just let him cool off. And Gord said, he's cooled off. I was a little feisty. And nobody looked at me. He said, just give me a second. Just let him cool off. And Gord said, he's cooled off. I think he's okay. And the killer came right over to me and he goes, Pang, get ready. You're playing the next game. You needed a break. That's it. You needed a break. Again, it felt like a million bucks. No, I needed a break. Our other goalie, Greg Corham, God bless him. He passed away a few years ago. He went in there, stood on his head. We won 6-5.

No way. All things worked out. Then we eventually really pounded Kitchener in their own rink on some fluky goals, but we were on a roll by then. Brad Shaw and Bruce Cassidy, Mark Patterson. Gus Mullary was our defense we got from Cornwall at the deadline. Then we had Adam Creighton was the best player. I don't think there was another player that could touch him in that. He was so good. I remember that. He was Gary Roberts. I mean, we just had a good team.

Like, yeah, it was really good. Killer was a great coach. Now I heard beyond your brilliance in goaltending, particularly when you were younger. I've told you nothing about anything brilliant I've done so far. I've told you that I gave up a lot of goals between the legs. But the winning followed, though. The winning was part of it. But on top of all of that, I heard you were a heck of a lacrosse player back in your day, too. Played a lot of lacrosse.

Won a national championship, right? It was my favorite sport. Wow. By far. We played for the Nepean Knights, and a couple of years I went to the Gloucester Griffins, they were called, and played with Gloucester. But yeah, we won three national championships. Three? Wow. In the B Division, because we weren't the Peter Bros, a few teams in Toronto. It's all by population, but we were a B. And so I still

cherish those medals. They were really, for me, lacrosse, being a small guy i was i was always the captain we were we had tony house who's a prominent uh basketball guy and a longtime friend of mine he was a great goal scorer uh we you know we had we just had some guys that were we we were we looked like the bad news bears and like we weren't dressed up like everybody but man we had some soul and we were good and and so we, but, man, we had some soul, and we were good. And so we'd go into teams, and we had to go in and play Peterborough or Six Nations or Mimico.

Did you play Lewenbeck or any of those guys? Newey was a good player. They were usually on the A, like I think they called them A class. So you never would cross over and play like X or B? Brian Bellows, yes. Brian a lot. The Evans brothers a lot. And if I played against Newey, honestly, I don't remember

because we played a charity game with Doug Gilmore and a bunch of guys and Brendan Shanahan and his brother put it together. It was the most fun we could all have because so many of us play the game and we're good at the game, you know, and we loved it. So you put a stick in our hands and we were in Oshawa and all of a sudden we were all at the game, you know, and we loved it, you know, so, so you put a stick in our hands, and we were in Oshawa, and all of a sudden, we were all throwing the ball around, like we, well, you know, like, we hadn't left playing the game, so. Can you still do it now, like, you picked up, absolutely, yeah, yeah, that's awesome, I still have, I actually still have one of my lacrosse sticks, my brother had taken, my brother Mike was real good, too, and he, he ended

up kind of keeping one that I was, that I, I really, I used fiberglass so many times over, wood with the cat gut in the big pocket and the shooting strings all flared out. And, you know, it was, it was, it was, it was a great memory for me. So I do enjoy talking about lacrosse because I got to be a goal scorer and, and I was a better, I was probably a better forward hockey player. But I got put in net at an early age. But I always played outdoor hockey as a forward, and I always ask anybody, ask Danny Savard or Steve Eisenman or anybody how much I love playing forward.

And just going and dangling, I always put on equipment. I always had forward skates. I always had equipment. So if we had an optional, I'd go out there and skate. I had a Jofa helmet. Do you skate anymore now? Like, do you play anymore now? You know, the outdoor game, the Winter Classic alumni game in 2017

was the last time I put on my equipment. I had a – and I shouldn't have played then. I had a knee replacement just prior to it, and I forgot a really bad – No guts, no glory. Exactly. No guts, no glory. And you know what the funny thing is? Fans might understand this, but I forgot about my glasses.

I don't wear contacts. So I didn't even, I skated once before. They sent me all this brand new equipment. I went out there for five minutes. I couldn't wear it. Pads were all big and long and all flat. They didn't fit on my feet. The shoulder pads, I felt like Gumby.

I was like, I felt like a turtle. I couldn't move. So I left after five minutes. I went back in the locker room. They're like, what are you doing? I go, I'm just going to put on my old gear for the, for it. I'm good. So I never went on the ice for the winter classic alumni game. I go to put my mask on and I'm like, oh shoot, my glasses. What am I going to do? I can't fit my mask, my molded, my mask and have glasses on. I can't wear glasses underneath my, I look like it.

Al Arbor in there. It won't look good. So, so, so sure enough, getting ready for it at, at, at Bush Stadium,

I take off my glasses, put on my mask and I'm, I'm in the net really focusing hard because I'm squinting. I'm like, all right. And Gretz has a breakaway and he hits me right in the chest and he's yelling at me. I'm like, he hit me in the chest. Like, what am I supposed to do? I got a picture of it. It's the funniest thing ever. Cause he's like, you shouldn't, you shouldn't stop me. And I'm like, stop you.

I didn't, I didn't do anything. How can you miss the net? You shot it right at the crest. I'm five foot four and a half. I can't see. I got no glasses on. He hit me right in the chest. right at the crack five foot four and a half i can't see i got no glasses on you hit me right in the chest yeah so i don't skate um and i with the alumni here in chicago i skate it all the time ask all the guys like cliff coral and reggie kerr the great alumni here in chicago i always skated because i was healthier my knee wasn't so ripped up but once i had the knee replacement something it's funny there's no power and i'm scared i don't want somebody to you know i just they're just a worrisome factor to be honest with

you the one thing darren we didn't get a chance to ask you was you were never drafted and you got signed i wanted to ask you a who was the person that got you there and secondly what one person said to me about you is they said that um you're like a friendly guy you're an easygoing guy you're always happy to chat with people but you don't make the nhl without being a fiercely driven and determined guy and so i wanted to ask you a who's the person that you think they got me to the nhl and b um what was the biggest moment that you had to overcome to get there where you could have said you know what the odds are just too against me i'm never gonna make it

really really good questions and really detailed we might need another episode for this one i'll be honest with you and i'm glad to do it with you. My first year pro, okay, the years in Belleville, if not for being traded to Ottawa, I was done. So that's number one. When I say killer saved me, he saved me. No questions asked. There's no way I could have picked up the pieces.

I was depressed. I listened to sad music. No questions asked. There's no way I could have picked up the pieces. I was depressed. I listened to sad music. It was a bad point in my life. So move ahead. I go to a championship team with a championship coach. I became a champion again. That's all we ever did in Ottawa was win. Lacrosse, hockey.

So I wasn't used to where I was at. It was a terrible feeling. So that would be number one. Number two would be, so between Larry Kelly and Brian Kilray, they're certainly, besides my parents. Larry Kelly, by the way, before people, that was your agent. Agent, yeah. That's right.

Great supporter. Got me, you know, anyway, so we move forward. First year in Milwaukee, Jim Ralph gets hurt, blows out a knee. I played 57 games in my first year pro. I get called up to the Blackhawks. I play my first game. I realized when Stan Mikita, who had been retired for four years, came up the Chicago Stadium stairs in a sweatsuit, asked me to stay on the ice for a little bit longer, and I couldn't stop him, I thought I'll never make it to the NHL. I got such a long way to go. Like Stan

Mikita, he's burning me left, right, and center. It was really frustrating for me. So that was number one where I left that year going, I've got to get a lot better. And I got called up for the playoffs. I was the third goalie all the way to the conference final of the Edmonton Order, Chicago Blackhawks. I was with them for three rounds. I really understood how much better I had to be. And if I didn't get called up, maybe, you know, maybe I didn't get it. And the next year, I went to camp.

I had a really good camp. I got to play my first preseason game. I beat Edmonton. We beat Edmonton. I was in the net for it. I'm thinking, I'm okay. Got sent down. I was really disappointed.

It's my second year pro, and I'm disappointed. Go after that, third's my second year pro, and I'm disappointed. Go after that. Third year. Third year pro. I'd do the same thing. Preseason game. Beat Edmonton again. Beat Minnesota.

Articles in the paper that Pang's probably the backup with Murray Bannerman. They traded for Bob Sauve. They sent me back down again. They didn't send me to Halifax where they split with the Oilers. They sent me to Saginaw. So I ended up halfway through the year, February. I was really disappointed. This is the turning point for me to make a long story short. The turning point for me was when we beat Muskegon. I didn't go to the bar. All the players were waiting for me. They kept calling my apartment because there's no cell phones in 86. And I said, I'm not coming until Bob Pulford calls me back.

They said, Bob Pulford? And I said, guys, I'm not coming to the bar. And I called Pauly at home. His wife's name is Roz. I said, Roz, is Bob Pulford there? No, it's Darren Pang. Darren, how are you doing? Sweet lady.

Sweet lady. Bob's coming back from the stadium. They play tonight. Yeah, I know they play. They lost eight to four. I knew all the numbers, all the stats, you know. It was like, okay, could you have him call me at this number when he gets in? Don't wait till tomorrow.

She said, oh, I'll have Bob call you then. Okay. I waited. Phone rang. Got nervous. The boy's at the bar. Where are you? I'm like, I'm waiting for Pauly.

Has he called yet? They're all in the background giving it to me. So they didn't. Pauly did call me back. And I said to Pauly, I said, Pauly, you told me at the beginning of the year that if I were, you know, this is my year. We are 28 and 12. I've stopped 52 again tonight.

Nobody's here. There's no scouts here. I made a point of saying that. And I go, you guys lost 9-6, 8-4, 7-whatever, blah, blah, blah. I had everything written down. He stops, and he says, you're quite a boy for calling me at home on a Sunday night. Darren, good night. He hung up the phone and I was like, oh my God, this is it for me. Like I'm done. Two weeks later, he calls me back and he says,

you're going to Halifax. I said, I'm not going to Halifax. I'm in Saginaw. We've got a great team. We're going to win the championship. I love these guys. He goes, you're going to Halifax. I'm in Saginaw. We've got a great team. We're going to win the championship. I love these guys. He goes, you're going to Halifax. I'm going to back up. Like Darryl raised the goalie there. Edmonton doesn't play our guys. You're going to Halifax. I'm not going to Halifax. Bang.

I hung up the phone. Larry Kelly calls me back five minutes later. Did you just hang up on Pauly? I said, I sure did. He goes, you're on a flight at four. Don't miss it. Okay, Larry. I hung up the phone.

I went to Halifax. Play played well there under Larry Kish, got called up to the Blackhawks for the playoffs. The next year I made the Blackhawks. And I happen to think that the gumption I showed to call him, and then I played well, and then ended up making the team. Wayne Thomas was our goalie coach. Very important part of it for me. Very important. That might be the most important in someone going to bat for me after all of that.

And then I got to play. But I didn't play long enough. I'm really sad that I got hurt. I hurt my hamstring first. Boreas Salmon deked me out. And then I tore my ACL. And then I rehabbed it. And then I tore it again and then I retired and got into broadcasting but you still made it man you still made it yeah oh we're in the W close to gate six I'm see I'm we did great look at this right huh right so you're NHL goalie you said you're a hell of a lacrosse player you're also a great golfer so what are you best at like if are you better golfer than lacrosse player or better lacrosse player than golfer? Oh, I was a better lacrosse player for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Because you're pretty much a scratch golfer, you know? Yeah, pretty much. Right now I'm like a one index, but guys like Danny Quinn, who I, you know, I grew up with. He's a great golfer. I mean, he's a different kind of golfer. Like he's a tournament golfer.

I'd say I'm a good country club golfer. You know, I show up well and I've won some club championships and now I've won some senior club championships but I'm not there are just guys that are better like Joe Pavelski you know a plus two or Bernie Nichols is a good golfer but me I've grown into being

a good golfer because I played lacrosse growing up so there's no time to play golf then I started became a tournament tennis player and so then I started, became a tournament tennis player. And so then I started playing tennis in Ottawa, and I really took it seriously. At one point I wanted to quit hockey, and my tennis coach said, listen, you're good, but you're not that good.

And it was great of him to say it. And he goes, don't be stopping playing hockey. This will be the worst mistake ever. Like, it's not, it won't be. So I just continued, though, to play tournament tennis. And then I played squash and then I played, you know, then, then as it turns out, I started playing golf because everybody played golf. Nobody wanted to play tennis. Nobody played squash anymore. So I, I, I decided to play golf. Me and Stevie, why we, we got into Ottawa and we're like, come on, let's go. We jumped on board. Danny Quinn

kept bugging us and bugging us to play golf. Come on golf and we're like and it was not fun when you're not good and Quinn are so good and so we're like I'll go why don't you play tennis with me because I'm good at that I want to go play squash but anyways it turns out now I've played lots of golf with Danny and we have a blast playing together and I play lots of golf with Steve uh probably more with Steve than I'd say other than my son oh for sure probably more with Steve than, I'd say, other than my son. Oh, for sure. Probably more with Steve than anybody out there. Maybe Joe Kosher as well because we're on the same place in Michigan.

I was going to ask just some highlights of people you've gotten the chance to golf with over your life because I imagine there's a few. Well, one time I had a really great moment in Arizona when Gretz was coaching and I was the broadcaster. And Darren Blake, Gretz's longtime agent and good time friend, he says, hey, we're going to go play golf tomorrow. Let's meet up at, I think it was Silverleaf. I'm like, oh, great. We get going there and looking on the range.

I'm like, we playing with him? And he said, yeah, I thought you'd like that. Freddie couples. So then Freddie ended up coming on a couple of team planes with us. Wayne, Wayne was so good with people. He's like, Hey, Freddie, you want to go to the game in LA? We just spend the night, stay in the hotel room. I'm going to go to my house in LA, but you stay with Panger and Blakey and go have dinner. So we did that a few times. And then, so we played two rounds of golf. That was special because he's a really he's a really special guy and if i i text him a little while ago when he turned 60 just or he turned 65 maybe might have been 65 and i i just texted him to say happy birthday you know not thinking anything and

sure enough panger how you know how you doing and he watches games all the time the second one would have probably been danny quinn did it to me the same same thing we were at the bears club in uh in jupiter florida and he says hey i got a special buddy that we're gonna play with and we're on putting and you know and I'm looking and then I look at this big fella and I go no way the big easy so that was pretty cool too to golf with go to the back tees and there we were we're playing some kind of match and you had to be game on man you're playing with Ernie Els or you're playing with Freddie and it's that's pretty cool so amongst amongst guys like I play with Wayne obviously we play with Wayne and Steve I like I said I played I would say that I played

more golf with Steve than than anybody but my son so how intimidating is that to be playing a game for money with Ernie Els it's fun that's the charge of it yeah that's the excitement I mean you know you go to something like that you know that these guys aren't they're not looking to play some ten thousand dollar or like take you know like but it was good in fact it was so good and so competitive and so much fun that on the 18th hole it's a par five i got a shot on that hole. So I hit my third shot over, nearly went in the water behind it, stopped. I chipped it to about seven feet and Ernie made his five. And this was for, I think this was for the 200.

I think if I made it, I won. If I didn't make it, either we pushed or he won. I can't remember exactly how it was going. And he says, going to have to see it. That pushed or he won I can't remember exactly how it was going and he says gonna have to see it that's all he said that is it is class and I'm like I wouldn't expect anything more you're not gonna give me that it's it's from here to there and I rolled it in and uh and so afterwards we had a few beers and and it was so much fun and that's thanks to Danny Quinn the thing about golf that I really enjoy and Wayne's exactly this way Wayne Gretzky's the same way, they see everything,

and they know if you appreciate that moment, they bring into it. And it's so fun for them, I think, to see that excitement from you. And they know I'm a competitive golfer, but we tell stories and have fun and have a few drinks and have a cigar. That's been a real fun part of my later years in life for sure. Well, I wanted to ask you about Iserman because there's probably nobody in the sport that knows Iserman better than you.

A lot of secrets are under here, you know. They don't come out, you know that, right? I expect that, but I think you were 15 and he was 16, or you were 16 and he was 15 when you first played together i think a little bit younger a little okay yep uh major midget team nepean raiders qualified for the air canada cup yes that was the roster i found yeah i thought he was playing for the bantam triple a team that qualified for the loblaws cup okay and they won the they didn't win the loblaws company he was named the bobby or he won the bobby or trophiesrophy as the MVP of the tournament.

So now we're a couple of men short, but we qualify. We beat all the teams in Ottawa to get to the Air Canada Cup. And so the coach said, we're going to bring up Steve Eicherman. And I'd known Steve, but not like this. Now we're on the same bus. Now we're on the same team. And that's where our relationship really started that year. Because the next year we were on the Tier 2 team together with the Nepean Raiders.

Right. As under-underagers. He was an under-underager and I was just an underager. So he is one year younger than me. Okay. So I saw this roster. And, like, that's the one thing. Like, he keeps – he's very secretive.

Nobody knows what he's up to. But nobody knows him better than you. Yeah. What I would be just curious. He's got, he's got, he's got a few guys that he really leans on. Yeah. Like really, you know, and, and, and that's, it's great being part of that inner friendship, you know, cause I know that, you know, if he picks up the phone and asks a question about something, you know, I know he's, he's, he's asking the question.

And when you don't hear him at the other end of the phone, I've often told people this. If you're going to have a conversation with Steve, think of what you're going to say. Don't worry that he's not, he doesn't interrupt you. He's just listening to you. So sometimes, even for me, for all the years, I'm like, hey, Steve, you still there? Uh-huh.

I know he's still there. He's listening. That's what he is. He's a great listener. Unbelievably patient and an unbelievable listener. So I do, I enjoy that, that part. My wife does it too. It's go, Oh, what's going on? You got to see, you know, I got to take, you know, I, it's, I got to, you know, I got to take this, you know, always, but, but my wife, Lynn has known Steve for almost as long as I have. So we've all been together. Steve's wife, Lisa Brennan, um, now Iserman,

So we've all been together. Steve's wife, Lisa Brennan, now Iserman, went to Sir Robert Borden High School where Lynn and I went to school and knew Lisa. And I'm not sure if we introduced him or not. I think Lynn might have done some, you know, get them together thing. Matchmaking. And then Steve went to Bell High School, which is only, what, half a mile away anyway. So that's how far we all go. anyway but uh so that's how far we all go so even to this day when we were at steve's daughter's wedding last october it was so great to see his his uh his dad's not doing real well right now but his mom was there and uh um and just seeing his his brothers and his and his sisters his

sister is uh it's it's always really special i i always hug his mom's a pillar of strength i mean she is jean is a she's strong she's strong, she's quiet, she's reserved. But, man, she's all power. Like, she's just such a great lady. So is he more like his mom or is he more like his dad? That's a really good question. I think he's got the strength of both. I was always a little intimidated by his dad, only because my parents got divorced when I was 12.

My mom raised us. And it's kind of like you go into a house where a dad's got that look. Like, Ron, he could get my attention real quick. And he didn't mean to. It was just the way he was. He didn't say a whole lot. But when he said something, you're like, okay, what do we need to do? Are we goofing around too much?

What's going on? And I think when I signed his signature for a couple of doctor's appointments and Steve and I wanted to play hockey at the Sportsplex, happily named the Steve Eisenman Arena now, and we got caught, you know, he knew that, that it was me. And I knew that he didn't like it, but we laugh about it now. Right. Whenever I've seen him.

My writing is really good. Really, eh? Yeah, really good. I could pull off a lot of different signatures. But not that one? Yeah. I guess the school might have caught on. All Steve and I want to do is be like the older guys.

Because they were 20-year-olds, 19-year-olds, 18-year-olds, and even the 17-year-olds were old. We were 15 and 16. We just wanted to skate in the afternoon on a Tuesday and work on our game because they all did it, and that's it. But we didn't do it after that because that was it. So I wanted to ask then, for as long as you've been around the game, first playing it and now being a broadcaster as long as you do,

when you look at your position of goaltending, what do you see here, the modern goalie? Modern goalie. We saw your tweet about the reverse V8. Well, yeah. We wanted to get into that. This was the segue. And I don't often get too spirited about it,

but the game was a close game, and it's a right-hand shot going down the right wing. So I had to look at it again, like, is there anybody in the slot? Nobody. Is there anybody in the back? Nobody. Is there anybody? Nobody. I don't know for the life of me why a goaltender would get in that position. The puck was below the goal line. It's a right-hand shot. You can see Reinhardt is looking straight at his ear, like, that's my spot. So why would you even have your ear, you should still be looking at the puck. Let's take all the fundamentals of hockey. Goalie's job is to look at the puck the whole time. You stare at a puck the whole game. And now, for whatever reason, you're going to go on a reverse VH and have your head to the side.

I don't know what you're looking at. The puck's over there. And then it hits the side of your head. The biggest part of your mask is the side of your head. Even if you turn your head that way, it's going to hit you right in the face, and it's going to pop right in front of you.

It's not going to go on the net. So, you know, it's hockey sense for me that really bothers me. It's hockey sense. It's a momentum-sapping play, number one, should never go in. And then number two, it's fundamentally a real sour note for me. It just drives me crazy. Everybody says great shot. I say terrible goal. It's just the way we all think probably as goaltenders. You're like, that's not a good goal. Well, no, he just put it right underneath the bar. Yeah, but I'm five foot four and a half. If I was in a position to hold

my post, it would hit me in the shoulder. Why is a six foot five guy going on his knees and there's an opening up there? I don't see Marc-Andre Fleury ever getting beat with that. He never goes down early like that. He stays up. He watches the puck. Sometimes he'll tease them and he'll stand up and he'll take it right in the chest and he's toying with them and it's hilarious when I see him do that so so yeah that is the that's one of the one things that I think that some of the if you go to a practice that's all you see you see 200 repetitions of down on one knee push slide uh use your right edge push slide to the post push slide over push slide over stay slide over, stay on your knees, stay on your knees, stay on your knees. It's no wonder the hips are burnt out.

It's such a waste of movement. And you're sliding. It's only a six-foot net. You don't have to slide seven and a half feet. Why would you go seven and a half feet and overlap the post? Because even if you make the save, you have no chance for the rebound. So I use a phrase, and Marty Broder is great at it, just at managing your crease, managing your post, owning your post,

having control of your post. And it's really not that difficult of a game when you have a good manager, if you manage your post. And so use your edges, stay on your feet, manage your post. Interesting. Yeah. Because it seems now edges, stay on your feet, manage your posts. Interesting. Yeah. Because it seems now like, gosh, it's unbelievable, obviously, their flexibility, their mobility, like the core strength,

the ability to keep themselves up in certain situations. Yeah. And their flexibility, their power. Right. The goal is that today, it's incredible. And I know the way the blades are sharpened is different. The height of the blades, they're higher. The pads don't fit down low where you push off and the leather toe of your pad stops you from pushing.

Right. Now it is different. But still, their explosiveness is almost so good, they overexplode a lot of times to get from point A to point B. And then they have to put on the brakes real quick to stay inside their posts. Again, you get, you get back to that managing your net and inside your post, but no, there's so many great things they do as well. I mean, and courageous, like people say, oh, the equipment's great. Oh, really?

Go, go, go down there at ice level for a practice. And you just, you just tell me what it's all about. These guys are courageous. In fact, I'd say they're too passive. I don't think they get mad enough at their own teammates in practice. Everybody goes buzzing for the tower. The amount of practice shots that missed the net, buzzing the ears by the head, and hit the glass, it's incredible. That would have gotten you killed when you played. It's incredible. Well, when I signed with the Blackhawks, Tony Esposito had just retired,

so I heard all the stories of Espo. Murray Bannerman would have, I mean, he would have chopped somebody. You know, like, Billy Smith, can you imagine Billy Smith? Like, Mike Bossie comes in and rips 10 at his ear? They would have been in a brawl all the time, but Mike Bossy wouldn't do that. You know, or, you know, Doug Wilson would never do that to me. Like, or any of the goalies.

He fired them hard and they were 100 miles an hour, but they were in control and on the ice. But just the amount of shots, because a fourth liner can shoot at 100 miles an hour. Right. Doesn't mean they know where it's going, but man, it's humming. Yes.

It's humming. Yes. One thing that's the same is the sound of the puck that's flat and rotating. It's a whoosh. Yes. It's different. Yes. It's humming. Yes. One thing that's the same is the sound of the puck that's flat and rotating. It's a whoosh. Yes. It's different. Yeah.

You can hear it. So what's it like for you now calling games at ice level today? Because you've been doing it for a long time. You've seen a number of different generations of the game. I've changed over the years. Yeah. I've changed. I remember one time Elliot and I had a conversation.

I was trying something with an iPad. I had this company made this whole setup, and then I was between the benches for TSN or NBC at the time. I don't know. It might have been, and I don't know who it was with, but I just remember you and I had a conversation, Elliot, about what I have in the bench. And I'm like, I got to stop it. This is crazy. I can't be trying to look at an iPad where this guy's got me this nice system. It's really great, but I'm not good enough at it as it is.

Watch the game. So I've really evolved down there, and I think that the advantage of being between the benches is that in an 80-game schedule, there's a lot of games that are very mundane, but if you can find five things in a game that you can sell the fans and make it more entertaining because you saw something on the bench that you would never see from 300 feet up, then I think it's a better show.

Some guys don't like being there. I like being down there. I like the interaction. I like when TNT, I like doing the coaches' interviews. I like the warm-up. Guys, they're very talkative. I miss the warm-up. I like, I like the warmup guys, you know, guys, they're very talkative. I miss the warmup. I miss being in the ring for the warmup. I love that. It's still the best. And it's still great when guys come over and, you know, and you don't want to have just a brief conversation with you and they want to ask how you're doing. And I got guys

that still, they take off their glove and shake my hand. I'm like, we have so many great, respectful players in the NHL, and I'm hopeful that the younger players that are coming up, take it from the older guys. The younger players look at it and say, you know what? They're not your enemy. We're selling you guys. And for every one thing that we might say negatively because you turn the puck over, we're probably going to say three great things that mom and dad are going to be proud of.

So don't worry about that. But it's just the fact that I've seen that so many times. Goalies, Jeremy Swayman every time. He's a bumper. Luke Shen takes off the glove, shakes your hand. How's everything going? How's it going? Where'd you go for dinner last night?

You just have so many of these great guys that are old school guys that I really enjoy. I wouldn't want to end my career up in the booth. I think I want to end my career right down there where I've done the majority of my games. Do you like where the game is now? Sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes. I'd like less theatrics.

I really would. I would like less the gloves are off. You know, the stick came up somewhere. I really would. I would like less the gloves are off. You got, you know, the stick came up somewhere. But really, you know, sometimes the difference between a real injury and just, come on. Like you used to have so much pride in not showing anybody you were hurt.

And it's changed so much. That part of me, there's a couple of parts of me. Okay, I'll take that one for number one. Just pick up the glove. Let's get off the ice. And if you you're seriously hurt we know what seriously hurt is um i've never liked the congratulatory uh go by the benches and now like that i've never liked it never been a fan of it and now i you see the huddle and it's like did you score did i said you get it did i get okay i'll go first okay and they go by and they and they high five and it's like i'd like it just one year where you just go to Santa Rice.

You just go to Santa Rice, and you just drop the puck. I think that'd be great. And I got one more for you. This is it. And I know I'm sounding like an old curmudgeon, but hear me out. Can you please score a goal and celebrate with your teammates? Instead of skating away from the guys that are coming to hug you and celebrate with you, and you skate away to do some kind of celebratory something on one knee,

I'm like, come on, guys. It's a big goal, but that guy made the pass over there, and you had to tap in. Go right to that guy and hug him. So those are my three things. That's it. That's all I got for you. That I would change if I were commissioner for a day. And Gary it. That's all I got for you. That I would change. If I were commissioner for a day.

And Gary and I, we have the same suit size. So I could probably be commissioner for a day. Yeah. I think you have a lot of people signing on for that. You've got more muscle tone. I don't think so. You've got more muscle tone. I don't know. I don't know.

I want to ask you, Bedard. You see him every game. What do you see? I you see him every game. What do you see? I see him evolving every game. I see a more tenacious player than I saw last year. I see a guy that's getting more comfortable in the environment and not afraid to give it back, but not afraid to, like he's winning puck battles.

He's going in there and he's winning. And to me, that's an important part of the game is being tenacious and winning them back. It's not always going to be the pretty goals. So that part of it, I've really enjoyed. And I think he's enjoying, well, he gave it to me the other night. I'm not sure if you heard it, but he gave it to me the other day, which was very good. And I really enjoyed it because I told him one time, I said, listen, I'll put the goalie equipment on. We'll do 10 shootouts, and we'll see how you do.

He goes, he gave me one of those. And I'm like, I'll tell you what. You'll probably score six. I'll make four saves. He gave me the look like, yeah, right. I go, well, first off, you always go high glove. And I'll give you a high glove, and then I'll just take it away. And I go through this motion.

He looks at me, and I go, and then you've never been poke checked before. So I'm probably going to two pad stack you with a poke check. And you're going to probably fall and end up in the boards because that happens all the time when you're surprised by a poke check. And now I'm really, now I'm on a roll, right? Now I'm humming and I'm like, you'll probably score a low stick on me the next one because I'm no good low stick. And then you'll probably burn me high glove because now I'll be frazzled. And then I'm going to do something that you never expected before again maybe a two pad slide with a glove safe and so anyway we've so we've had some fun with it so when I said that to him I said geez that was such a great shot I don't think I could have stopped it and he said

you wouldn't stopped any of them deadpan smiles takes off his headset and walks away and people are like oh he's jabbing you know that's it's great i want that from him you know i want that from him he's a he's a great kid his mom and dad are phenomenal they're here a lot um they care for their boys a 19 year old kid that you know went through covid hardly i don't even went through a high school class before you know what i mean like this it's a lot you know and and then we're throwing cameras at him we're anointing him the next one, which is unfair too. And then he's asked to do how many national interviews. His first two games were incredible, what he had to do. So I'm really impressed with him, and I know he's getting better and better at every part of his game.

Can I get one more in before we go? Sure thing. Okay, so I wanted to ask the last one for me. Holy jumping. For those that aren't aware of the story, another former Blackhawk, Steve Sullivan, is right in the heart of when that first came together for you. Is that right? Holy, the S word, holy was taken.

So in the middle of a game, I couldn't do that one. But it was in New Jersey, and he was just called up from Albany. I think that was the American League team. I went down to the locker room. I was talking to this little guy with great hands, and everybody told me that he had great hands, great personality. I was enamored by this guy. I went up to the booth. I told Steve Levy and our producer, Bruce Connell, this guy. This is who we're watching. We're watching Steve Sullivan. Just got called up. He's got great hands. So I'm all pumped up, you know, and he does nothing. I mean nothing.

I'm like, maybe he's too small. Like, he was getting pushed aside, and next thing you know, halfway through the second, he gets the puck, and he goes, dipsy-doodly goes one, he goes to the backhand, forehand, backhand, through somebody's legs, came back out the other side. I think he danced. I think the goaltender was Ronnie Hextall or Garth Snow, and he went forehand, back end, top shelf.

And I nearly leaped out because of the basket over there in New Jersey. And I nearly leaped out, and all I could say was, holy jumping, holy jumping, what a play! And poor Steve Levy was doing the call, and he didn't get to say he shoots, he scores, or anything. And that's where it came from. And after the game, Levy was so great, he goes, where did that come from?

I go, I don't know. I was so disappointed at the beginning, and then I was so excited that he came through with what I thought. I knew he had good hands. I told you he had good hands. And then he scored that goal, played over 1,000 games. And I did an interview when he was retiring. I said, hey, you're my first holy jumping kid. That's great. And that's where it came from. Right. And so many since then. This has been awesome, Jared. Thank you so much. Thanks, Jared. Thanks, you guys.

Great catching up. Thank you once again to Darren Pang and Kyle Davidson and the Chicago Blackhawks for making all of that happen for us. And thank you to the listeners, each and every one of you who made it to the very end of this episode. It was a long one, we know, but hopefully in some small way it was worth the ride as well. We will attempt to gather a handful of more interviews while we're here in Chicago in the lead-up to the 2025 Winter Classic. The Blues and the Hawks goes Tuesday, New Year's Eve, 5 o'clock Eastern. It gets underway. You can catch it on Sportsnet. We hope you enjoy it and enjoy New Year's.

We will talk to you again in 2025.