32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Live From Victoria, It’s 32 Thoughts!

Episode Date: January 19, 2024

Jeff and Elliotte play to a crowd at Wickett Hall in Victoria, BC ahead of Hockey Day in Canada on Saturday. The guys address whether Jake Guentzel will find his way to the Canucks via trade before early March (5:57) and Jeff runs through a bunch of trade bait, rapid-fire style, with Elliotte (13:37). Elliotte wonders aloud whether the Leafs are taking a bigger picture look past this season (19:14) and the guys also talk about Patrik Allvin's media tour this week and what the future will hold for Elias Pettersson (21:29). Jeff and Elliotte are joined by three guests in this edition of the podcast: Brian Burke (23:48), Kevin Bieksa (50:10), and James Patrick (1:20:47). The guys answer your questions in the Montana’s Thought Line (1:54:50).Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Montana's Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Here's what's going to happen. This will be a live recording, so I'm going to let you know how we're going to do it, and then we'll just begin, and the podcast takes you wherever the podcast takes you. I'll walk around with the microphone. The segment that we do, the Montana's Thought Line, we're just going to do it with you guys. So put your thinking tooks on, get your questions ready. Elliot and I will bark out some news. Elliot and I will welcome some guests. Elliot and I will chat with you guys. and I will welcome some guests. Elliot and I will chat with you guys. Hopefully everyone leaves with a full tank of gas. Good to see everyone's glasses are already topped off and that is going to be the podcast. Welcome once again to 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented as always by GMC Sierra, Jeff Merrick alongside Elliot Friedman and Dom Schramatti back there playing the keyboards. Thanks so much for joining us here, part of Scotiabank Hockey Day in Canada. Thanks for joining us at Thicket Hall

in lovely Victoria, the home of the Royals. James Patrick's coming up here in a couple of moments. The home of the Royals, and this is a city that is very, very near and dear to my heart. My sister and her family, they lived here for a number of years and now live in Duncan, and is it actually true that this is the maiden voyage for Elliot Friedman? Yeah, I'm embarrassed to say that that is true.

I've been all over Western Canada, but never to Victoria. And as someone said to me today, you picked a great time to come. Is it always like this with the wet snow? No. All that goes to Vancouver and Seattle, right? The nice weather is here in Victoria. Real quick, before we get to some of the news and stuff, this is Hockey Day in Canada,

and Hockey Day festivities are well underway. You've been a part of a number of these. I was part of a few of them. Whitehorse was fantastic. Winkler was tremendous. I always cherish my time at the William Allman Arena in Stratford. Which ones stand out for you? Well, the one I always remember, and this will be a subject of the podcast today,

was 10 years ago we were in Lloyd Minster. And after spending the week in Lloyd Minster, and as I said, that was the first time I ever heard Brian Troche sing. He performed in a concert there. We drove to the airport, and we flew to Vancouver. And that night, the Calgary Flames played the Vancouver Canucks, and John Tortorella tried to get into the Calgary Flames dressing room. And there are two people who will be on the podcast tonight who were involved in that game. Brian Burke, who I have no doubt was behind Bob Hartley icing that roster at the start of the game.

And Kevin Biexa. Threw out the meat, Bob. Kevin Biexa, who took the only face off of his career and won it, and then dropped the gloves and fought Kevin Westgarth. Hang on, you left out the most important part of that. What's that? He saved Kellen Lane's life. Yes.

I don't want to steal it from BX. He told that story earlier today. You know, we had a great honor earlier today, Kevin and I. We went to the base of Squamalt and we toured the HMCS Ottawa. So Kevin told that story once today, so we're going to hear it again this afternoon. But that hockey day in Canada, I will always remember because we were going to commercial at the end of the first period. And normally it's the producer in all of our years counting us down saying seven six commercial and five and the director a great director by the name of Ron Forsyth looked at a small monitor and in that

small monitor was a camera in the Calgary hallway and he yelled don't go to commercial go to that camera so we stopped the countdown in the middle and there was a huge commotion in the calgary flames hallway and that's when we realized that tortorella had actually gotten into the flames room and brian mcgrattan who played for the flames at that time prevented things from getting worse by pushing Tortorella out and calming him down. And the thing I always remember about that too, was that camera was not attached to a tape machine. And the NHL called during that game and said, we want all of the tape from that camera. And we had to tell them it's not hooked up to a tape machine so all you get is what was on the air and because the camera on the air did not capture

Tortorella in the room he got suspended for I think six games but it would have been worse if they actually we were told later if we actually had the footage but it would have been worse if they actually, we were told later, if we actually had the footage, the suspension could have been worse. So John Tortorella got suspended that night, but in a way, our own lack of technological advancement saved him from a worse punishment. And he's been nice to the media ever since. That's right. That's right. Wonderful. Don't ask me about the other team. We're going to talk about the game 10 years ago between Vancouver and the Calgary Flames. As Elliot mentions, Berkey was, of course, an executive with the Calgary Flames.

And Kevin Bieksa was saving a rookie's life. But speaking of the Vancouver Canucks, let's jump in there. Okay. You mentioned not too long ago, and you've been pretty consistent about this, that Vancouver is going to be rumor central. That this is going to be the place, this is going to be the province where you hear the goofiest stuff on a consistent basis. And that's when it's normal.

And that's normal. There is nothing, folks, like Vancouver hockey Twitter. There is nothing like Canucks hockey Twitter. It is its own animal. What's the latest? What do you hear? What do you know coming out of Vans? What do you want to know?

Is Jake Gensel going to be a Vancouver Canuck in early March? I didn't know if you were going to hit me with Patterson first or you're going to hit me with Gensel first. Look, Vancouver thinks they can win. They're right near the top of the league. They've been number one at the league at different points this year. Kyle Dubas threw some cold water on this the other day. He said, look, we're not talking to anyone about Gensel right now.

He said that they're going to talk to Gensel at the All-Star break. It made me feel really good to hear him say that because it meant that there's something I've said recently was actually accurate. That the Penguins were going to sit down with Gensel around the All-Star break and decide where this is going to go. To me, the biggest decision here is where's Pittsburgh going? And I think they are bracing for a future where they're going to say,

we're not trading prospects, picks for short-term fixes. I think they're there now. Well, I think they're there now. Don't you? Yes yes but i think that has to be communicated to some people and and i do believe that one of the things that gets has been weighing is if the penguins aren't going to be all in does this make sense for me so once that gets formalized then i think the auction will begin and i like this is a great thing. I got into Vancouver yesterday. We did a charity event with Kevin last night for the Canucks Autism Network. And everybody there is coming up

with their Gensel trade proposals. What was the wildest one you heard? Well, it's like, okay, do you think a number one Pod Kulzin, Hoaglander, and Kuzmenko gets it done? And I'm like, why don't you just throw the Lionsgate Bridge in there too? Look, Rick Tockett knows Jake Cancel.

Jim Rutherford knows Jake Cancel. If Jake Cancel is going to be available, the Vancouver Canucks are going to be in it. But so are a lot of other people. And Kyle Dubas' job, if this happens, is to create an auction. And that's what he will do. I would have to think, though, that, and listen, the Vancouver Canucks have wildly exceeded expectations. And now that, listen, we don't know what's going to happen with Vegas and Jack Eichel.

They've had injury issues, Shea Theodore and Alec Martinez previous. It's been tough sledding there. The Colorado Avalanche now all of a sudden find themselves in a situation where Nachushkin is out, they can't get a save, and they need to do a whole lot of fixing, and they don't have a lot of cap space to play with. So maybe Colorado has come back to the pack here. What I'm trying to say is maybe outside of Edmonton,

there's this huge lane that just opened up for the Vancouver Canucks. So if you're player X on an expiring contract out there side of Edmonton, there's this huge lane that just opened up for the Vancouver Canucks. So if you're player X on an expiring contract out there that may have no trade protection, how many players out there are warmer to going to Vancouver, even if Vancouver's on their no trade list? I think when a team has a chance to win, it opens up. And Vancouver, it's so hard to win in this league it is so hard to win in this league that when you have opportunities you have to take advantage of them and if i was in vancouver this year i'd be going for it i i absolutely would you've got

your your great players have been playing great all year. Your goaltending has been really good all year, starter and backup. Your role players feel emboldened and empowered by their coach and the coaching staff. I'm going for it this year. There's no other way to look at this. You have to go for it. Now, Colorado, the roster they have now is not going to be their roster at the end of the – after the trade deadline. They're going to be in it for Elias and Lane Holm. I'll tell you this.

Marc-Andre Fleury has the right to call his shot. He absolutely has the right to call his shot. He deserves it. He's earned it. And you heard Minnesota say this week that they are not giving up on the season. But if we get to a point where the Wild are out, to me, Colorado is one of those teams that's going to ask, Marc-Andre Fleury, would you be interested in this?

That would have to take major attention by Minnesota because they can't fill up their shopping cart with one player. They just don't have the cap space. And I also don't think the other team that screams Fleury to me is Carolina. That's the other team I look at and say, they'll be, if Mark Andre Fleury wants to go somewhere, they will ask him about, do you want, does this, our situation interest you? To me, it's gotta be a Stanley cup contender.

Colorado's one Carolina's one. I don't know if New Jersey's that team this year. To me, I think New Jersey goes for something longer term. Can they make Calgary the kind of offer that Calgary takes it to Jacob Markstrom? That seems to be more sense for New Jersey. But when I think about Fleury, and right now it's nothing, and it's nothing without his approval, those are the two teams I think of. Fleury and Colorado makes a ton of sense. Let's get into goaltenders. Friday, March 8th is trade deadline.

Yep. And the goalie market's hot. And by the way, Spencer Martin is on waivers today. So Jet Greaves is a pretty big prospect for them in in that playing in the American Hockey League right now. Does his performance make it easier for that team to put someone like Spencer Martin on waivers? I think so, but also this whole Elvis situation that blew up. Merzlikens admitted he asked for a trade. I don't think that was a huge surprise to anybody in the league.

I think everybody knew that Merzlikens was already available. But now, to me, the simplest thing is Merzlikens plays great and they bury whatever's going on here and they just say we're going to continue the way it's going. Merzlikens is very hard to trade. He's got three more years at $5.4 million. One of the great things I've learned in hockey is there's two ways to

attack something you either solve your problem or you or you trade your problem and the easiest thing always to do is solve your problem because trading your problem is hard you're dealing from a position of weakness you're putting yourself in a better spot to lose the trade to me the most sensible thing is Merzlikens plays well and Columbus and him they work it out. Now I don't know if that's gonna happen but that's the better solution for me for Columbus and sitting them out and not playing them like they were before that's not gonna solve your problem. Now the one thing about Merzlikens it's been really tough and

these are the dangerous places for me to go, because I'm not there, and people take offense to this kind of stuff, and I understand why. I think there's something going on in there. Like, Merzlikens, we had an interview with him that's one of the best interviews that we ever did. He's a fiery guy. He's a competitive guy.

And I think it wore, when it wasn't going well, it wore on some of Columbus's players. Now, that doesn't mean you can't fix that problem, but I do think that was part of the issue here. So I think with Martin, part of the issue is you've got to get Merzlikens to play, and if you have three goalies there, you're not solving anyone's problem.

I wonder if it was him barking about being number three. That was a big part of why I asked for a trade. Well, if I got a third podcaster and made you sit off to the side, would you be happy? It wouldn't surprise me. Do you think the audience would like it better? It wouldn't surprise me. Probably. Let's do goalie trade deadline then.

All right. Let's do the trade deadline game. How about that? Oh, man. This is awesome. This is going to end badly for me. This is so awesome. This is where my job is so easy at this point.

Okay, hit me. Honestly, all I've got to do is just throw out names, and he gets himself in trouble. And this podcast drops tomorrow morning, and by noon, he's got about four or five general managers screaming at him. Another four or five agents yelling at him. You know, Berkey, who's here today, he and I went a year without talking. It was the greatest year of my life. And he would probably say the same thing. All right.

We'll start with goaltenders. Okay. You've mentioned Merzlikens. You've mentioned Marc-Andre Fleury. Yeah. John Gibson. Anahe Marc-Andre Fleury. Yeah. John Gibson. Anaheim. I don't know.

Like, this one is... New Jersey? Can I think? You're killing me here. Okay, so I really... Honestly, I live for Elliot, like, struggling and in obvious pain, trying to figure out how he's going to say what he wants to say and minimize the amount of phone calls he gets after about it.

You know, he's right. That's what this is all about. Because you say one word wrong and, oh, they come for you. So I thought Anaheim, there was a time last summer where I thought Anaheim was going to say, let's move on from the contract. Let's just take going to say, let's move on from the contract. Let's just take the best deal we can and move on from the contract. Like Gibson has to be traded to a contender and Anaheim was willing to accommodate him. And I thought that meant

they were going to do it. Pat Verbeek was a tough, tough player. He's an equally tough negotiator. tough, tough player. He's an equally tough negotiator. It's a hard deal to do because it's the trade for Gibson and the trade for retention if you need it. And most teams would need it. I think it's been really hard.

I don't... I'm not guaranteed that this is going to get done this year. It might, but I could be wrong. I don't know. Verbeek is a really tough negotiator. I thought they would want to move on. I think he's holding to his price.

I'm not convinced that he gets dealt this year. Okay, Kent Hughes. Watch, he'll get dealt the moment this podcast drops tomorrow, on Friday. Be announced any minute now. Kent Hughes, GM of the Montreal Canadiens, said, he's happy to go with three goaltenders if that's what it takes this season. Hands up on this stage, who believes him? Nobody's happy to keep three goalies.

Especially the goalies. Jake Allen. See, I think what's happened there is that he's got a price that he set I think it's a draft pick I think the other issue is he's got one more year see there's always the trade price and the retention price right

and the price gets higher if there's retention I'll tell you I really do think there was a time this year I thought Jake Allen was going to be in Edmonton attention. I'll say I really do think there was a time this year I thought Jake Allen was going to be in Edmonton. Now I'm not convinced that's going to happen. There was a time where we thought that Carter Hart

would be in Los Angeles. How aggressive do you think Rob Blake is going to be looking for a goalie? I think they will add a goalie. I do. I think they will add a goalie. Whether it's Allen or somebody else, I think they will add a goalie i do i think they will add a goalie whether it's alan or somebody else i think they will add a goalie uh last one for you already mentioned jacob markstrom what about dan vladar i don't i haven't heard a lot of around vladar i i do think there are teams who like markstrom like to me new jersey and markstrom is the obvious one

but the thing about the flames is they have have said, I talked about this last week and someone called me and they told me one of the other things that Calgary is dealing with here is Markstrom does not like this. He does not like his name being out there. So Calgary is very sensitive to that. And they, like I've said, they've made it very clear they are not taking anything to him and there's no move clause unless it's a really, really big deal they can't say no to. And the other thing I've heard is Calgary made a good trade for them for a guy who was ready to play in Sharon Govich. I don't think they want, what do you call them? Green bananas? Yeah. I think they want someone who can play now.

Yellow bananas. Yellow bananas. They want yellow bananas. Not green bananas. They won't want green bananas. Calgary doesn't want to go into a full rebuild, so I think that's part of the issue there. I think they want someone who can help them now. Speaking of Calgary.

So the teams that are looking for goalies are New Jersey, Carolina. L.A. L.A. Colorado. Colorado. Possibly Edmonton. Toronto.A. L.A. Colorado. Colorado. Possibly Edmonton. Toronto-wise, I heard the problem for Toronto is they wanted to trade like a sixth round pick or something. Yeah.

For a goalie that could help them while Samsonov was down. No chance. They couldn't get anything. They just, they couldn't even get traction. They didn't like anything that was out there. And people wanted more than that and they were like, we're not doing it. Before we bring on our first guest, he's moments away. By the way, it's got really hot around Toronto lately.

In what sense? Well, people are calling for the coach. Oh, shock. I mean, you've watched them play. This crowd here in Victoria, I'm curious, do you want to see Toronto thrive, or do you want to see Toronto suffer? What did that sound like to you? Sounds like there are people that are really taking great delight in the suffering of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

I believe the term is schadenfreude, taking delight in the misery of others. It's funny, you know, the farther you get outside of Toronto, the less people really like it. I've never really noticed this phenomenon before. Some would say Toronto's not even part of Canada based on the reaction outside of the 4-1-6. You know, I got to say this. Like, you know, they're down to their third goalie. Their defense is not what they thought it was going to be.

Are there some coverage issues? Like Justin Bourne had a great article on the Sportsnet website about it, about some of the mistakes they've made. I thought it was really well done. I really wonder if what we're looking at with Toronto, like the thing about Nylander is they decided right before Christmas, like there's Nylander basically gave them a number and never really moved far off it. And right before Christmas, Toronto decided they were going to do it. It took a bit more time, but they decided they were going to do it.

I think they wanted to know what his number was going to be and if it was going to get done because I think Toronto's thinking bigger picture. I don't think this is about this year anymore. I think they're thinking about where they're going. I really wonder if deep down that is an organization that is saying we are not good enough to win this year. We are resetting

and we are reshaping our roster and we're going to do that. I think we're in the first... The more I think about the Nylander negotiation and getting him signed, it was about what does our structure look like so we can start to rebuild their roster. And I think before they committed to signing Nylander,

they went everywhere in the league and said, is there a defenseman making Nylanders money or close to it that we can replace him with? And those players, they're not available. So I think now they're thinking about what singles and doubles can we get on the blue line around this group. You know what everyone's thinking right now? What's that?

What does this mean for Elias Patterson? this group you know what everyone's thinking right now what's that what does this mean for Elias Patterson look you know I gotta say Patrick Alvin Patrick Alvin is like normally he's like in witness protection he says nothing you don't hear oh he talked to Ian McIntyre no but I'm saying like this week he came out and and and I said this to Matt Marchese on your radio show today, the Jeff Barrett show with Matt Marchese. If I'm the Vancouver Canucks, what I'm doing now is I've said my piece on Pedersen. We want to sign him. He's our guy.

And they will throw big money at him. I would shut this down right now because I don't think Pedersen likes it at all. You said your piece. You said we're ready to do it. When he's ready, he's going to get paid. Now I'd shut it down and focus on the rest of the season. Is it just a coincidence that the majority of general managers around the NHL only really make themselves available when the team is winning?

That's pretty funny. You don't think it's because they're at the midway point of the season? Things are good. I'm going to get out in front of some microphones here. You know who was one guy I remember? The Islanders were bad for a long time. And then one year they got off to a great start and everybody wanted to interview Mike Milbury.

And he actually said, talk to somebody who deserves more credit than I do. He was the one guy I remember who wouldn't talk when his team was good. I remember he told me when we were working on... Any other time, Milbury was happy to talk. The team's good all of a sudden, he doesn't want to talk.

I remember one draft, I think it might have been the Eric Johnson draft where he offered every single Islanders pick for the first overall. No, you know, that was Gar Snow. And that was for Ryan Murray. Oh, 2012? Yes.

So was that? No, this is both. Because that happened too. Yes. And Gar Snow was the GM. They offered every pick for second overall. Well, Minnesota did that with Pittsburgh, with Lemieux as well. And rightfully, Pittsburgh didn't make that deal.

Okay, let's bring on our first guest. Never shy to speak, whether the team's winning or losing, and his team's had a whole bunch of winning. On the 10th anniversary

of the brawl in Vancouver between the Flames and the Canucks, please welcome and put your hands together the former manager for the Vancouver Canucks amongst Toronto as well,

and the Anaheim Ducks who won a Stanley Cup in 2007. Hands together for the one and only Brian Burke. How's it going, Burkey? Good. It's great to be back in Victoria. It sure is, isn't it? I can't believe Elliot's never been here, but that's good news. Bad Canadian, Burke that's good news.

Bad Canadian, Berkey. Bad Canadian. Real quick, what goes through your mind when you're around this, when you carry it on stage? What's the first thing that flashes to your mind? I'd like to have done it more than once. There's nothing like winning the cup. It's a cliche, but it's what we strive for every day of our lives you wake up thinking of ways to win the cup deals you can make and uh it's just a wonderful thing when you finally get to climb that mount everest what i remember is 2007 ottawa you bit you win game five at home to win the stanley cup and i think if i remember correctly Alpherson scored to make it like three

to two and then you guys blew them off the ice what are those last couple minutes like as you know that everything you've chased is about to become real well we scored a couple late goals like you said I think Corey Perry scored it started running up a little bit and um John Muckler was the GM of the Sen senators and john muckler's a classy guy he came over and said congratulations there were six minutes to go we're all like jesus christ he's trying to jinx us so at first i was like screw him he's trying to jinx us and then and like the clock goes down to four minutes three minutes and we're like okay we can start breathing easy we actually went down a couple minutes early and when it hits zero well it's zero i was standing there and joe trotta was

our video guy if you don't like the slap shot reference jeff yeah joe trotta says and the chiefs have won the ducks have won the championship of the federal league so uh no i remember i remember talking to henryi, the owner. I said, congratulations, Henry. We're due to do this again in about 30 years. You know, I remember... He didn't like that. I remember that series so well. And I remember racing to get back home to watch game one.

And I listened to the first period on NHL radio. And Billy Jaffe was working rinkside. And he was in between the ben period on NHL radio and Billy Jaffe was working rinkside and he was in between the benches, NHL radio, and Brad May was lined up with Chris Neal and Billy's microphone was hot and you could hear what Brad May was saying to Chris Neal. It's clear as a bell. All he's saying is, anytime, big boy,

this whole series, I'm going to be right here. Anytime, big boy. What did Brad, I'm going to be right here. Anytime, big boy. What did Brad May mean for that Ducks team? Well, I had Brad May three times. I always joke with Elliot and Jeff. I say, I checked with the league, and they're only awarding one Stanley Cup this year. I checked. I tell Elliot a note, I send him a note every couple weeks,

I checked. And it's because of the ridiculous prices we all pay, because of what Elliot said, you think you're close, you've got to show your team you're trying to add something. The only trade we made near the deadline was to bring back Brad May. And because he was such a spiritual leader on the team and such a tough player and a positive guy. He was great. I had him three different times, traded him three different times too, but I had him three different times.

Well, and I'll tell you, one of the really nice things you did, this is one of the great things I remember, was Brad May was in Toronto, and Detroit wanted him, and he was close to his 1,000th game, and Berkey and Detroit asked to trade for him. And Berkey said to them, I'll only trade him to you if you guarantee he'll get 1,000.

I thought that was a great gesture. By the way, Berkey sends another text to me after every segment I'm on. And it's four letters. It's yawn. So after every segment, I get a text from Berkey that says yawn on it well I just amazed that someone said they follow sleepless in the alley of course they do Christ that's the best remedy for sleeplessness I've ever heard better than somnix Brian as you know today is the 10th anniversary of the infamous line brawl to start the Vancouver Canucks-Calgary Flames game in Vancouver.

What are your memories of that day? Well, Torch started the whole thing. Clearly. Nothing to do with Calgary. Bob Hartley would never do a thing like that. No, but wait. What's the deal with Hartley and Tortorella? Because they don't like each other.

They don't like each other. What is that? I don't think there's a lot of people they don't like each other. They don't like each other. What is that? I don't think there's a lot of people that don't like each other in our game. And it's very public. There's a real animosity there. I don't know what it stems from, but it's very real. So we're playing that night in Vancouver. I'm in the coach's office, and I was not a meddling coach, a meddling GM.

I didn't tell a coach I want to do this, I want to do that. I was reading my book. I was reading a history book. Okay, who believes this story here at this point? Anyone who works with me. If Elliot had ever worked for a team, he might know that. So Bob says to me, and I like Bob Hart hartley bob hartley did a lot of good things when he coached our team there's other stuff i had issues with but he said can i talk to you for a

minute so we go outside we're in the corridor outside the coach's office he said i want you to know i'm starting the twin towers so that's brian mcgratt and kevin westgarth he said i'm starting the big boys i said why i said are we starting a rodeo because that's Brian McGratt and Kevin Westgarth. He said, I'm starting the big boys. I said, why? I said, are we starting a rodeo? Because that's fine with me. And he said, no, no, I tell them, I tell the players, tonight you are hockey players. You play hockey, you do not fight.

So I'm like, then why are we starting them? He said, I want to make a statement, but I don't want to brawl. I said, okay, I'm good with that. And I told Dave Nones, I said, we better get upstairs. Or I told Craig Conroy, we better get upstairs before they drop the puck. So it turns out, he said, no fighting. Turns out in the warm-up, Kevin Westgarth skates over to Kevin Biax and says, we're coming for you as soon as they drop the puck.

I didn't find this out until later after I got fined $25,000 for instigating the fight. So the fight, they drop the puck. Kevin Biaxa, I love Kevin Biaxa. He comes over. We had a rookie that was a take the opening faceoff, a kid named Lane. Kellen Lane. Yeah, he's a 6'5 kid, but he couldn't fight. So Kevin Biaxa came up and took the face off,

and then the brawl started. So my favorite thing about that whole thing was after it was over, someone said to Tom Sestito, who's a tough kid, he was dressed for Vancouver, he said, yeah, Torch said, they're dressing their idiots, so we're going to start ours. He started. So anyway, fight goes on. Laddy Smeeb was in the fight. He got smacked about 10 times. I said to him afterwards, how was that, Laddy? He goes, oh, it was very exciting. He punched me seven or eight times. And I'm like, it's more fun when you

hit them back, Laddy. It's way more fun to land a punch. He goes, this is very exciting. So we got fined and torts got suspended. But the one thing, and John Tortorella, he'll be furious at me for telling you this part of the story, but his son is an Army Ranger, U.S. elite, like the equivalent of a Navy SEAL. His son is an Army Ranger. He was deployed that day to the sandbox, as they call it, Afghanistan or Iraq. And they weren't sure where he was going. They never tell

him when they go on an appointment. Like Navy SEALs aren't told, their parents aren't told, oh, we were going here. They just know you're leaving for the sandbox. So he had to wait for that call that day. He was tighter than a piano wire for that game and I'm not surprised that he just couldn't take it when Bob started the brawl. John Tortorella's a good guy and I'm glad he didn't get more. I'm glad faulty camera work. I will tell you,

thank God Brian McGratton was standing there. Torts was going to go in there and go right after Bob Hartley. Brian McGratton said, no, I can't let you go through. Kevin BX, if you look at the camera, he snuck down the medical door on the far side. He was watching to see if he could figure out

a way to get in this. Kevin's coming on here a couple of seconds. What did you, like, did you watch Kevin playing in college? Once. What did you think? I thought he had an outside chance to play. And then he got to Manitoba. He got to Manitoba and we weren't going to sign him. He came out on ATO. So he played at Bowling Green and he didn't have a great college career. He wasn't a great offensive player. His leadership skills and stuff were evident, though. You could tell he was a factor on the team. So we sent him to Manitoba.

He did not dress the first night. He got in a fight in the bar, in the parking lot outside the bar, with Fedor Fedorov, which Fedor started. Fedor Fedorov is a great kid, by the way. But he's 6'4", 230, 230 235 he's way bigger than Juice and he started a fight with Kevin and Kevin went to Dallas Eakins who was our captain and said they're going to send me home I'm here on a PTO a pro tryout agreement they're going to send me home if I get in a fight and Dallas Eakins said you don't know our boss fight him

so they go in the parking lot, juice drops him with one punch, cuts him wide open, knocks him cold, comes back in, and he says to Dallas, oh my God, they're going to send me home. They're sending me back to Bowling Green. And Dallas Eakin said to him, kid, you don't know our boss. They're going to sign you tomorrow. We did. What was your favorite memory of Vancouver? What was your favorite memory of Vancouver? My favorite memory of Vancouver? I worked there twice. I was there as assistant GM from 87 to 92.

That was a great gift, getting to work for Pat Quinn. He was amazing, yeah. I find it hard to even talk about that. So the magic of working in a Canadian city as your team gets better, we did that twice. So I went with Pat. We were a non-playoff team. We got better and better. Pat made all these great trades. We draft Trevor. We just get better and better. The building's full. That all happened twice for me in Vancouver. So I had two great runs there. We brought the twins in. Team got better. We went from 10,000 season tickets to 17,000 season tickets. Filled up the building.

Brought back the West Coast Express. Brought the Twins in. So there was a lot of great memories. But, I mean, it's such a great place to live. I loved every minute of working in Vancouver. Every minute. Okay. Except when I got fired.

So I've always wanted to ask you this. Of all the great press conferences that you've ever given, because there's a, Sadeen is not Swedish for hook, hold. Headlock me in a scrum, I believe. Yeah. We're going to bring truculence. Like you've had some dynamite.

What is your favorite either interview or press conference or sound bite of your own? I think the Sedina's not put me in a headlock. I think that was a pretty good one. I worked hard on that one. I took a bunch of notes. I usually do it from the cuff, but I wrote a bunch of notes out so I get that right. So we went up in that series. We're playing Detroit in the playoffs. We went up 2-0 in that series. And John McCaw, my owner, came to me afterwards. We were getting the short end of the stick on the officiating. So John McCaw came to me and said, I want you to say something. I

complained about the officiating. I said, John, we're up 2-0 in the series. I'm not saying a bloody thing about the officiating. But I told our players before the seriesating. I said, John, we're up 2-0 in the series. I'm not saying a bloody thing about the officiating. But I told our players before the series started, I said, this is the Detroit Red Wings. We're going to give up a power play, an extra power play every night they're going to get. We're going to be killing penalties more than Detroit. It's partly the way we play and partly the respect they have. We're going to have to kill at least one penalty every night extra. So we built this in. And then after we tied it up 2-2 and Danny Cloutier gave up the long one into Lindstrom I was in full panic so I said all right I'm going to go public that's when I started yapping about

the thing but the best one quote I had was I was really mad someone was they were talking about moving the team from Vancouver and someone in the media asked a really stupid question. Said, you can't be serious that this team could be for sale. I said, you know what it would take to move this team? A quarter and a pay phone. That's what it would take to move this team. It's true, by the way. But I was so mad.

That was my favorite quote because I was screaming at this guy. You don't believe me? You know what it would take to move this team? A pay phone and a quarter. Canadian quarter. Some of my favorite stories, Brian, that you've shared over the years

involved when you were the head of what is now known as the Department of Player Safety. You were the original sheriff. You were the one with the badge. And one of my favorite stories, and if you haven't heard this one, it's a beauty. Marty McSorley and Eric Lindros. Marty McSorley always wanted to get at Eric. Eric would stay away, stay away, stay away. One game, Eric scored. McSorley goes right at him, smashes him,

and Eric finally drops the gloves. I think it's more of a seatbelt fight than anything else. Anyway, Eric bites him, bites Marty McSorley, and that's where you take over. Well, I remember I didn't suspend him. I know that. And we looked for evidence. And I guess who, Marty was the bitee.

Bitee, yes. Eric was the biter. He bit me, God damn it. He bit me. And I'm like, I don't see any evidence of a bite. And Marty probably had it coming. So we didn't suspend him. Marty told me this.

He said this was this was he might have driven you crazy but the the story that Marty told me about it was that you called him and said look we'll throw the book at Lindros I just need you to tell me that he bit you and he wouldn't do it and then and that so that part is true he wouldn't wouldn't do it he wouldn't do it. That's true. So that part is true? He wouldn't do it? He wouldn't throw Eric under the bus. And then is it also true that Marty said, because you said something along the lines of, Marty, I'm going to ask you one more time, then I'm going to drop it.

Did Eric Lindros bite you? And Marty said, no, and call Bobby Clark and tell him he owes me one. Yeah, that's true. I forgot that last part, but that is true. He said no, but I said to him, I said, I'll throw the book at Eric. You got to either throw him under the bus or you got to show me bite marks. And there was no bite marks.

So I said, well, we're done here. But I said, tell Bobby Clark he owes me one. That's right. Jeff, do you have any more stories where we want to tell Brian what he said? I was thinking the same thing. You get nervous when someone is interviewing you, he says, and then they turn to you and you're like, oh, I forget that part. Who's your favorite player ever?

My favorite player ever, I'll be perfectly honest with you, for a million reasons, was Taimou. Taimou Solani. Taimou Solani is the best guy I've ever had on a team. He's a great player. He's a Hall of Famer, obviously. But he's a great teammate. He's always upbeat.

And that has value. We're a grumpy bunch of guys. And the players are grumpy. And like Ryan Kessler is the most miserable human being I've ever had. Chris Pronger right behind him. And so if you have a guy in your dressing room, like Taimou comes in, you lose 6-1. And Taimou's like, let's get the coffee going, boys. We're going to spank these guys.

So he's always positive, always upbeat. Great interview. Great teammate. And a great player and and i'd say i was fortunate i had a lot of great players a lot of like you know trevor linden was just a gem pat for beak he was my first captain in hartford i've had great players mark messi i know he's not popular in vancouver but he was great for me i know that's that's an uninformed opinion but you're entitled to it. I feel like you should do a poll, Toronto or Marc Messier. The whole package, I'd say Taimou.

And also, our players, Taimou had been in the league, I think, 14 years. Someone can Google it while we're doing this. And he was so relieved to win. The guys were pulling so hard for Chris Pronger and Taimou as guys that had great careers and never won. So we had a real incentive. Our team was really motivated by that, that we've got to get these guys a ring.

True or false, you were the one that pushed every year until he finally relented and did it in 2010 for the GM of the Year award. Yes, true. How many times would you have won it as a general manager? I don't know, once probably. I said to Gary, it was my first year at the league, so 1993. Gary said, well, what suggestions do you have to make the game better

or whatever, and we were talking about it. And I said, and I still believe, number one, is we play too many games. And I still believe that by 25 years later. But I said to Gary, I said, how come there's an award for defensive forward, defensive scoring forward, this guy, that guy, humanitarian of the year, and there's no GM of the year? And Gary said to me, that'll just cost the owners money. We're not doing it.

So I kept pushing that. And 20 years later or 18 years later, they did the GM of the year. I never won it. But I'm glad to say I pushed for it. I conceived of it and pushed for it. And I think I bugged Gary enough. We finally got it in. Last one for me. Good. Last one for me. Good. Before I get fired, which I hope you know is today, I want to see, so I left school in 93. I'm very careful to point out I never graduated. I don't want anyone accusing me of fraud.

I began my career in the spring of 1993, and I really wasn't obviously around that year when Montreal won the Stanley Cup. There's one thing I want to do before I'm thrown out of this business and that is see a Canadian team win the Stanley Cup and cover it. I don't care which one. I just want to see one do it. You have been the general manager in Vancouver. You were the general manager in Toronto. You were the president of hockey operations in Calgary. You have seen this up close so many times.

Why is it so hard for a Canadian team to win the Stanley Cup? Well, it's going to happen. And I think the problem is, as you kind of hinted at earlier, Elliot, you can only get close. You can't ever say, like even in Anaheim, we didn't say we're ordering rings in July or in March. Yeah, you still ought to win the games. You still got to stay healthy.

Remember, we're playing in game five. Chris Pronger, I remember my ex-wife said to me that night before the game, I couldn't sleep. And she said, these guys are not going to let you down. You are not going back to Ottawa. This is over tomorrow night. And I said to her, that ignores the Twilight Zone factor. What happens if Chris Pronger gets the flu

or Scott Niedermeyer can't play? So what happens? Three shifts in, Chris Pronger separates his shoulder and misses half of the first period. So you never know. And you look at the Boston Bruins. They did everything right last year they had a great year made all these skillful acquisitions and they're out and i

checked there's only one so to me it will it will get done i think the team that's got the best chance this year so far has been vancouver um i don't talk to the choice but they're uh they're one injury away from that being a pipe dream, whether it's Demko or Pedersen or whatever. The problem, the biggest problem in the NHL. Welcome to Hockey Day in Canada, everybody. The biggest problem in the NHL right now is the lack of depth at the top six. You're one injury, every team, Colorado, Vancouver, you're one injury no matter every team Colorado Vancouver

you're one injury away from a disaster if the wrong player gets hurt wrong defense against her wrong goalie gets hurt that's the biggest problem so you could say Vancouver is the best team so far that's not a guarantee they're gonna be there I want to finish with a story that I think happened in Vancouver you'll correct me obviously if I'm wrong. The story of you. You know more about what's happened in Berkey's life than he does. You know how close I work with,

remember that little animated series that we did together? Oh, that's right, that's true. We spent a lot of time together. The story of you, your son Patrick, and Wayne Gretzky on the ice. Yeah, that was in Vancouver at the Pacific Coliseum. So we were playing Edmonton, and Patrick, my son, was like five or six. And I used to take him out and skate at the Pacific Coliseum before practice on Saturdays. And it's because it was a non-school day. So Bob McCammon was our coach and he had worked with the Oilers the year before. And he

said to me, is Patrick coming to practice tomorrow? And I said, yes. He said, bring him out a couple minutes early. So we didn't skate that day. The Canucks didn't skate that day. I think we played the night before. So Wayne's coming out at 1130, supposed to be on the ice. So 1030, 1045, I take him on the ice.

We're passing the puck back and forth. The TV lights aren't on, so it's kind of dim. And all of a sudden, I look up, and there's Wayne Gretzky. He comes over. Hi, Mr. Burke. He always calls me Mr. Burke. And he says, hey, Patrick. And they skate around and pass the puck.

So, as you know, I got off the ice. I don't belong on the ice with Wayne Gretzky. I got off the ice immediately. And I skated as quickly as I could off the ice. I don't belong on the ice with Wayne Gretzky. I got off the ice immediately and skated as quickly as I could off the ice and let Patrick skate around and pass in the pocket and talking about school and then players started coming out and I made him get off.

It was a great memory thanks to Wayne. We'll end on this one. You bring up the Stanley Cup that's certainly 2007, your Anaheim Ducks team. Bobby Holik, who you uh had traded um bobby the first time he had a drink of alcohol was out of that didn't have a sip of alcohol until his new jersey devils won this well if you know bobby well i'm not gonna ask if it was you

that you know your first sip of alcohol was out of the stanley cup bring i don't think you waited until 2007. But were you one of these people that refused to touch it until you won it? Yes. It's cute because if you look at pictures of after we won the Cup, Patrick's not in any of them. My son refuses to get near it like everyone else who wants to win it. Brendan, my other boy that passed away, he's in every picture.

He's drinking from the cup. He's got pictures of it so uh yeah i was superstitious in fact one year on saint patrick's day gary bettman asked me or not asked me he told me i had to take the stanley cup to helsinki on saint patrick's day i don't work on saint patrick's day folks so i said to gary i don't work on saint patrick's day so well you're working this one so i had had to fly, load up the Stanley Cup. I wouldn't touch even the box it's in. So some guy, it wasn't Phil, some guy loaded it into a town car in Manhattan.

We went to Kennedy Airport, went up on the tarmac. They loaded it up just before 9-11. Went up and loaded it up out of the plane. I flew to Helsinki. They took it off the plane, took it to the press conference. I went back that night and got back in time for the last call in Manhattan. I was really sour at Gary for wrecking my St. Patrick's Day. I usually go to Mass on St. Patrick's Day and then go to the pub all day.

You're a treat. Berkey, thanks. Ladies and gentlemen, a round of applause for one of the great personalities of the game, the great Feinberg. Oh, he doesn't want to,

he can stay. You want me to bring the cup back or would the ex-elect to bring it back? Oh, that's right, he's not going to touch it. Oh!

That is harsh. Hey, you know what I've... Speaking of trophies, everyone, get your phones out right now. Open up a browser and have a look at... Yeah, you can do this too, Elliot. I know you're checking notes. Have a look at the Vesna Trophy. If you've listened to the podcast long enough,

you know I have these white whales, these questions that I'm obsessed with. Oh, God. And you'll love this one, Elliot. Everyone have a look at the Vesna Trophy. Okay. I cannot figure out why there's a beaver on top of the Vesna Trophy. I've asked Phil about it. Phil knows everything.

Phil lives at the hall. No idea. 1926, they put a beaver on top of the Vesna Trophy, Elliot. Big Canadian symbol. No, this is before it was the national animal, though. This is years before it became the national symbol. Why a beaver on the Vesna Trophy? I am that trivial, Elliot Friedman?

This, what? Berkey can't sleep the night before the Stanley Cup final because he's about to win. And you can't sleep because there's a beaver on top of the Vesna trophy. How long have you known me? Yeah, it's true. None of this, none of this at all should surprise you.

If anybody knows, or if anybody can figure out or find out why there's a beaver on top of the Vesna trophy, people listening to this podcast, please relieve this burden of mine. I need to know why there's a beaver on top of the Vestin Trophy. People listening to this podcast, please relieve this burden of mine. I need to know why there's a beaver on top of the Vestin Trophy. Who's next? Kevin Bieksa, former Vancouver Canuck defenseman is next, ladies and gentlemen. Listen to the 32 Thoughts podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. Now, I just got to say something. Him and I, we are sick of each other.

We did a great charity event last night for the Canucks Autism Fund in Vancouver. And earlier today, we were at CFB Esquimalt, and it was awesome. But I have heard a lot of BXO over the last 24 hours. So, Jeff, you can do this interview. Okay, so here's my first question. Well, wait, I'm really in suspense about this beaver question. I obsess about stuff like this, Kevin. You know me. You know that I obsess about it. Why is there a beaver on top of the vest? I don't know. It about this beaver question. I obsess about stuff like this, Kevin. You know me.

You know that I obsess about it. Why is there a beaver on top of the vessel? Anyway. That's a very good question. You just heard Berkey. We all heard Berkey. How many of those stories are true? I didn't hear all the stories.

Did he tell any about me? Because those are f***ing lies. He may or may not have mentioned you in Manitoba and Federoff. Oh, he did? Dom, good luck with this interview, man. We're in a bar. You can swear, can't you? But this is going on the podcast.

What podcast? Spitting Chicklets? They must be busy tonight. I walked in and I'm like, where's Biz? Where's Whit? Oh, it's Elliot and Jeff. No, you got Walmart Biz and Walmart. walked in and i'm like where's biz where's wet oh it's elliot and jeff no you guys we got walmart biz and walmart the team who i will echo uh berkey's comments about team who and i've got to

know team who living in anaheim the last few years i've never met a person that dislikes him he's one of the most charismatic likable guys i never played with him i played against him and chased him around for periods and periods but what a what great guy, great athlete, smooth talker. Women all like him. Guys all want to be him. Great human being. You guys good? I wasn't listening to you.

What did he say, Elliot? Well, he was waxing poetic about slanting. Okay, so let's go 10 years ago today. Okay. So he, I've heard you talk about this, So let's go with 10 years ago today. Okay. So he,

I've heard you talk about this, but Berkey said that, um, he goes into the meeting with Bob Hartley and Bob Hartley says, we're starting the twin towers, Westgarth and McGrath. And he said, Hartley said, they're not going to fight.

They're going to play. And Berkey like jokes. Yeah. And then why are we playing? Why are we starting them then and he said that westgarth came up to you in the pre-game and said something no no no um so i am so happy that you're disputing this is like this is what our charity event was like last night so this was a story no no i'll tell you what the story was two weeks before two weeks prior and

berky i don't even think you know this i had beers beers with West Garth in Nashville. We both overlapped on the road and we're hanging out and everything's great. And then fast forward to this night, 10 years ago, and we had a kid that had just signed with us named Kellen Lane, who ended up taking the face off. He was a six foot six rookie at a college, Lake Superior State. And what I was told from management is when he signed as a free agent with the Canucks and he had a lot of other offers, he was telling all these teams, you know, I know I'm big, but I don't want to be a fourth line fighter. I don't want to be pigeonholed into this role. He made that very clear that he was not going to be a fighter in the NHL. So fast forward to his first NHL game, he like just runs into the wrong team at the wrong time.

And, yeah, the Twin Towers were starting. And I know Brian McGratton very well. We grew up together. We're the same age. Played AAA hockey together. And he still claims that Hartley never said anything. But, I mean, like, you don't start the fourth line to go out there and stick handle the puck and turn it into a square. Like, they knew what their role was.

So, McGratton and Westgarth kind of together said, okay, let's get it going. Let's get some momentum. Understandable, like not the last time or first time that's ever happened. So he lines up Westgarth as a centerman and he never took face-offs, right? Like look at his skill set. He's not here, is he? So he lines up as a centerman and so right away I'm like, okay okay like i know what's going on here so he won't even let the kid get a stick into the face off and the kid is like scared right his parents are in the stands first nhl game so i just switched off you've all seen the video i switched off with them and like what are you doing and he's like nothing what are you talking about what

are you talking about all right so go back kid still can't get in i switch with him he grabs me i'm like what do you do he's like nothing and then everybody starts fighting everybody and that's kind of the story and then we all high-fived and it's best night ever i love i love how you said you made sure you won the draw so that you go at one and oh as a as a center in the league do everything as well as you can yeah so he snapped the puck back, and then I smashed that Schmid's face for a while. It was a great night for me. Like, you put so much into warming up for an NHL hockey game. Like, the warm-up, like, I go in the cold tub after, like, all the preparation for, like, one face-off win and, like, three punches off a guy's face.

And then that, call it a night. off a guy's face and then call it a night when did when were you guys aware that Tortorella was trying to get in in in the Calgary room uh so in in the room in Vancouver there's the dressing room and then there's a bit of a player's lounge and usually in between periods we'd get off like our upper stuff and we'd go sit in the lounge or we'd grab like some food in there and we saw it on hockey night in Canada that's how that's how we saw it and I was how you knew it yeah and I was I was fully like I had been kicked out of the game for a while so I was in just my under my undergarments I had no shoes on no socks and uh Berkino if you remember in in Vancouver there's like the trainer's room connected to the dentist office and then there's a little door in behind that connects to the tunnel for the visiting team.

So I sprinted through there and I jumped in and there's some video where you can see me in the hallway behind. And I was trying to grab Joel Colburn. Remember that guy, Berkey big guy trying to grab him and pull him into the dentist's office and beat the wheels off him. And he's like resisting me with all his equipment. He's so much taller than me with the skates on

and i'm like barefoot like a caveman just trying to grab this guy paw him in here what's the most fun game you played because i mean that one sounds like fun retrospectively but like what's the most fun game you ever played most fun game uh maybe that quadruple overtime playoff game against dallas that was myple overtime playoff game against Dallas. That was my first ever playoff game. That was fun because you're so hyped up for a first ever playoff game in the NHL. And I think I had like 35 hits that game. Like I hit everybody.

Remember that Hagelin guy? I hit that guy 15 times at least. Every time he touched the puck, just hammered him. But it was good to win that one. But that took toll on us that took its toll on me i i tore and i i was very lucky with like soft tissue injuries in my career i tore three muscles in my abdominal in game five and i really think it was because of game one because i played 58 minutes or something like that in my first ever play and remember 35 hits barely touched the puck is that the most hits you ever had in a game it wasn't really 35 but i i'd like to go back and check it no but i

mean like that like that game just 35 or 35 it felt like it it felt like it yeah probably all right best sardine story you love this yeah i do These people love the Sedins. They want to hear a great Sedin story. Well, who doesn't love the Sedins? Everyone loves the Sedins. So we're in Columbus one night. The guy in the Oilers jersey saying, yeah, I'm not a big fan. Who's got an Oiler jersey in here? Even the Oilers gave them a big ovation at their last game.

So it works. So the Sedins weren't into practical jokes at all obviously and we're in columbus one night and we're all at like a pub in in easton which is like a little suburb outside the city and we're staying there at a hotel and there's like a pub and some on a shopping mall and we're all in this pub and i had one of those uh tanks like lobster tanks and you know like the game that your kids play where they're like the claw that goes down and grabs the stuffed animals and you pay the dollar and it tries to grab one. Well, they have that for in a lobster tank, a live lobster tank. So there's these lobsters with like elastic bands on their claws. And there's like a machine that

goes in, you pay a dollar and it goes down and it tries to grab a lobster and it barely ever gets it. Right. so the twins are playing this thing for hours hours like exchanging hundred dollar bills to get one one hundred dollar bills and they're they're just like immune like and edler's in there like all the swedes are we're all sitting at the bar drinking they're playing the swedes love lobsters that's what you learn it's just such a typical sweet thing like weird right so fast forward everyone starts to kind of go back to the hotel and Kessler and I were rooming together we roomed together for about six years at the beginning of our career so we're rooming together and Darcy Hordachuk gets a room key from

the front desk not very hard and goes into our room and what happened was is they got obviously eventually they got a lobster they it's illegal to to leave the restaurant in ohio with a live lobster but they greased greased the cook or whatever so they had the live lobster in like this little to-go bag and they got into my room and they put it underneath kessler's pillow and they cut off the elastic bands so kess and i get home and go to bed right away lights are off 10 minutes in he's like, what the F? And I hear this bang, and I turn the light on, and there's like a lobster claw against the wall, and it's just like dripping down.

And so I go and I pick it up, and I put it outside, and sure enough, it's there first thing in the morning. Kind of a sad ending for the lobster, right? But the next day, Kes goes to practice, and he's like, who did it? Who do you think did it I'm like I don't know I was with you the whole time it wasn't me he goes it was Burr it was Burrows for sure I go well probably like that would be my guess but who cares so he goes right to Burrows and he's like you did this you did this and Burrows like no no no Cass I would never do that to you okay and I can prove it hold on before you, the best thing about this, I've heard this story three times the last 24 hours.

He cannot do a Burroughs conversation without the accent. Like, he just has to do it with the accent. My dad tells me that's rude when you impersonate somebody's accent. I think I'm just trying to relate to him. But Burr's like, it wasn't me, Cass. I promise, and I can prove it. And he's like, show me. So he has a picture on his phone, and Burr's in, it wasn't me, Cass. I promise and I can prove it. And he's like, show me. So he has a picture on his phone and Burr's in the hallway of my room

and he's taking a picture and there's like eight guys on the team putting the lobster under Cass' pillow. And Cass is like, but you're in the room then. If you're taking the picture. He goes, I have nothing to do with that. And the Sedins were responsible? Sedins were the ones behind it. They donated all the money for the Lobsters.

I can't remember if they were in the picture, but they spearheaded the whole thing. Wow. Favorite partner of yours? Favorite partner? I had a lot of great partners. I'm thinking four off the top of my head. Is that too many?

No, go for it. We got that. So, Matthias olen was my first partner it was lucky to play with him uh willie mitchell was a great partner for me dan hamuse was a great partner for me and cam fowler those are kind of my four cam fowler was one that i hope he got us to uh for whatever reason we don't talk a lot or enough about cam fowler what can you tell us about cam fowler that we need to know like to me he's like one of the the least talked about defensemen the nhl from from pretty much day one like i

remember at his draft he kind of fell a little bit uh going into the draft they were comparing his skating to scott niedermeyer but then after that like all of a sudden it got real quiet around cam fowler i always wonder like this guy's a really good defenseman. What should we know about Cam Fowler? Nothing. All right, then. There's nothing to know. Is he the most boring man in the world? He's an awesome guy.

I sat beside him on the plane. I sat beside him in the dressing room. No, he's just not a very eventful guy. Like, there's just not a lot of things happening around him. I don't mean that in a bad way. Cam Fowler, just need those most boring you know like if you like spend a day and you just hang out with cam like nothing's gonna happen like you're not gonna get an altercation you're not

gonna get an argument anyone you're not gonna just not a whole lot's gonna happen opposite cam found what I mean or no yeah i know what you mean i don't i don't think i'd want that on my tombstone here like it's cam fowler i mean he's nothing happened around he's a good golfer he's a really really good golfer he lives in michigan he's one of those michigan guys uh he golfs every day i mean yeah there's just he's a great guy okay who's the card player who's the total opposite of cam fowler then? Who's the guy that wherever, it doesn't matter where you go. It's happening everywhere.

Do you have someone where like every time you go out, it's just going to be, it might actually be Kevin. Well, that Darcy Hordachuk, I referenced him earlier. He's a guy that there's, there's a lot going on and he lives in Arizona now.

And I used to have this podcast it was number one in canada when i had it oh called cast and juice five minutes i heard of it had a podcast and then 32 30 i think you were 28 thoughts back then 28 thoughts came along and uh but we interviewed we interviewed hordachuk and he is one of the most entertaining human beings ever if you ever come across him at one of the events, he comes back for a lot of the alumni events and everything, but just stories and like a lot going on and all about the connections. He's your typical tough guy, Brad May.

You guys probably know him and Hordy and Barnaby. These personalities are all the same. They're all characters. So his kid is a high-end player. Yeah. Real, real good player. Braden, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Real high-end. And you have a hockey family. You coach. I'm curious about Kevin BX, the hockey dad, and be honest. I will. Always. What kind of hockey dad are you? Well, that's a tough question because I'm a coach right now and you know that so I started my own hockey academy four years five years ago in California and I basically

wanted to provide supplemental training for a group of kids because in AAA hockey and in the U.S. or in California that is there's junior ducks junior kings and junior sharks and that that was it back then. You practice twice a week if you play AAA hockey, and then you either play the kings or the sharks, and then you have to go to tournaments. So when I started this, I'm like, they need to be on the ice more. Like in Canada, pre-COVID, kids are on the ice five days a week, minimum.

And our kids weren't developing at the same rate. So I started this academy originally to be supplemental trading to playing on your club hockey team, your AAA team. And then that kind of morphed into like a prep academy school where I merged with a private school to do the education part, outsource that. And now I'm essentially just the head coach of the hockey team. So I've been the head coach of my son for three years. And prior to that, I was kind of like the assistant when I was around at times. So I've been around my son for three years and prior to that i was kind of like the assistant when i was around at times so i've been around my son a long time and i'm told that i'm very fair like i'm not the kid that gives my son preferential treatment extra ice time 90 seconds on the power play

no he's my son two years ago my son nine forwards he was like the seventh number seven on our team right for forwards and he's like chipped away and he's worked his way up he was like the seventh number seven on our team right for forwards and he's like chipped away and he's worked his way up he's like you're chris tana brandon tan of late bloomer typical and he's kind of chipped his way up where he's kind of in the top three on our team for forwards now nice so but i you hear a lot of horror stories they say you know dad coaches don't work and for the most part from my you experience, that is true. But unless you're an unbelievable coach like myself and you can make it work. Which one of your coaches are you most like?

Rick Bonas, for sure. Because sometimes I'll say things on the ice and like I'll explain a drill and then I'll end it by like raising my voice like this. And that's Rick Bonas to a T. And I'm like, oh my God, that's bones. Like a tee and I'm like oh my god that's bones like just drilled into my head but the thing I really loved about Rick bonus is he had an individual relationship with every player on the team I felt like not every player but certainly me Cass Manny like everybody and so when he got mad at you or he tried to give you tough love you took it you didn't have your backup you didn't say you know screw this mad at you or he tried to give you tough love, you took it. You didn't have your back up.

You didn't say, you know, screw this guy because you knew he cared about you. You knew he wanted you to do well, so that's the one thing I learned from Bones. I make sure that I have an individual relationship with every kid on the team so that when I do come down on them hard and I try to coach them, they know it's coming from a place of love and a place of help. What he's doing with Winnipeg does that surprise you uh I mean I just didn't think Winnipeg would ever be good so yeah it's surprising a little bit um they're handcuffed right like I we never thought that Shifley and Hellebuck would resign I know you guys didn't so to be able to keep those guys it's it's

hard to take the C away from a player that's still going to be there. That doesn't happen too often. And he successfully did that and handed over the leadership to kind of a new regime, and they seem like they're doing well there. Of all your altercations in the NHL, was there ever a time you got into something with someone

and you said, oh man, I am really in trouble here? What do you mean? Like outmatched? Yeah. Did you tell everybody how we took the helicopter over here this morning and you jumped in the pilot's seat? No, I didn't. What the heck are you doing? You didn't tell that story? I don't mind telling it. So Kevin and I were in Vancouver yesterday and we took a helijet this morning to Victoria, and I wanted to sit next to the window,

and so I jumped into, I didn't realize it was the co-pilot seat, and I just jumped right into it. You jumped right into the pilot's chair, and then he's like, what are you doing? You're like, well, I've never been on a helicopter before. That's not true. And he's like, so you can't sit in my seat. Okay, not surprisingly, this is not the way this conversation uh okay what was the question was there any time you were ever like i bit off more than i can chew

i'm really in trouble here no maybe not no like i i always went into every fight very very humble and very respectful that one punch you could lose the fight like i the fight that i lost clear cut fight that i lost the-cut fight that I lost the most of my career was against a guy named Tom could stop list and end up fighting him again and on paper like I watched every fight on hockey fights calm I scouted everybody that would ever potentially have to fight that's just who I am I'm an over-prepared so I was always except in television it's television I just show up it's easy easy, right? But everything else, try.

So I pre-scale, like I know everything about Tom Kassopoulos. I've seen 20 of his fights and then we ended up getting into it. And in my head, I'm like, I'm going to dust this guy. And all of a sudden we square off and I'm kind of a little bit loose. I'm not really, you know, protecting myself. And we throw at the same time. He connects. I don't.

By the time I got to the dressing room, the trainer's room, I do like a quarter squat and then I don't actually fall. I get up and the linesman comes in. He goes, go to the bench, Kev. And I'm like, what? Really? He goes, trust me, go to the dressing room. I'm like, okay. So I get to the dressing room. By the time I go into the trainer's room, my eyes closed, my nose is sideways and my tooth is knocked out one punch. And it hit me so clean I didn't even feel it and so I go in there and I just remember like what a humbling experience and so embarrassed like I was more embarrassed than I was hurt I didn't care about being hurt but I was so embarrassed

and I just remember I'll never never go into a fight overconfident again and then I had to wait eight months to fight him again because the next time we played them was right before the playoffs and Rick Bonus is like please don't fight him we're playoff starts next week they're out just please don't fight him you'll get another chance and the next chance I had was the following season and he was starting fourth line was starting from Calgary Berkey was probably still there and I kind of skate over to him and I go hey costo we're gonna go he goes yep no problem so square off come in hit him split him open eat pretty even fight but I split him open so we're kind of even now even Steven right he's won one I've won one Disney sorry doesn't like trade

deadline or not trade on all-star game and January we're at Disneyland with our kids, and I get into an elevator. He's in there with his two daughters and his wife. I'm in there with my wife and two kids. And we just look at each other in typical hockey guys. We just start laughing, shaking hands, like, hey, how you doing? Hey, how you doing? Go down. They get out.

They go into the park. And my wife goes, who's that guy? And I go, oh, do you uh that night i was in the dentist till three in the morning she goes that's the guy and i go yeah she goes he's so much smaller than you we're the same size well i'll tell you this i know kevin takes a lot of pride in this because every week i do a radio hit in nashville and then uh so last year or two years ago during the playoffs i can't remember what year it was, I'm on.

And they're like, have you ever asked Kevin BX about the time he got his ass kicked in Nashville? Oh, stop it. This actually happened. They go,

so I go, oh no, refresh my memory. Who did you fight? Well, I didn't get my ass kicked though. I'm not going to admit to that. I won the fight.

Mike Fisher. Okay, so it's Mike Fisher and he punches Kevin and Kevin's tooth flies out you can see it on my tooth flies out right what does that mean my tooth flies yeah just flew out again so anyway so real I walk into the I walk into the studio that night I say hey Kevin I had a funny exchange with the radio station in Nashville he goes what do you mean I go well they were laughing about the time that Mike Fisher kicked your ass and

knocked out your tooth. And he's like, give me their number. And the next week he goes on radio in Nashville to tell them he did not lose that fight. And I did. So that's how personally he takes this stuff. I stand by it because after like a week later,

Carrie Underwood, his wife, she was on a radio show. Like, Oh, you see my husband like beat up some guy last week. It was so hot, like referring to me and like typical Nashville, right? Like they cut the video. So like the one time he throws this little muffin left, it hits my fake tooth. The tooth is kind of like caught in my mouth and they show that on their TV feed. That's all all they show they don't show the rest of the fight so yeah it looks bad in that one clip but i still stand by watch that fight you tell me i lost that it may or may not be true that i went on hockeyfights.com and voted

for fisher 50 times every ip address in toronto has voted for. Who did you enjoy fighting? Oh, we're talking about fighting. Who did you look forward to? By the way, I just got a text from Berkey saying yawn. That's how I know Berkey's watching Hockey Night in Canada. Every Saturday, at some point, Berkey would be like, yawn. Snooze fest. I enjoyed fighting the LA Kings.

I don't know why. Like Clifford, I fought three times. Andrea, three times. Matt Green, Sean O'Donnell. Sean O'Donnell maybe was with Anaheim. But all the Kings guys. I don't know why. Just always fought the Kings guys.

And they were always at Staples Center. Who was the sneakiest, toughest guy? You know, for a lot of people, like, there's that one guy that no one ever talks about, but, you know, you don't want to mess with. Like, all the players know. The fans might not, but the players know, like, don't go near that guy. So I'll tell you a guy today that's playing that I don't know at all is Clem Koston. He is sneaky tough.

And I'm told, and you hear this all the time, oh, he trains with UFC guys or boxers. But he legit trains with, like in Russia, he trains with like MMA guys in the summer. And they tell me this guy is really tough. And earlier in the season, he fought Gabranson, who I think is one of the toughest guys in the league right now. And he gave it to Gabranson. So I'd say that Klim Kostin. But I fought a guy in the season, you fought Gabranton, who I think is one of the toughest guys in the league right now, and he gave it to Gabranton. So I'd say that, Clem Koston. But I fought a guy in the AHL once, and I don't remember his name exactly. I think it's like a McDonnell or something like that,

maybe Kent McDonnell. I don't know if you would remember that name, Jeff. But it was just like a fight that happened. We were on the penalty kill, and it was in front of the net. He's on the power play. He was like a Brendan Shanahan-type player, like a power four that scored and gave him a cross check just trying to bully him in front standard and he like stood up to me and we fought and after the fight i remember i went back home and and my wife was my girlfriend or fiancee at the time you probably should remember

this no i didn't remember what she was at the time. Labels. And she goes, oh, that was a good fight. I go, no, it was brutal. It's the first fight I've lost in pro hockey. She goes, no, you didn't. I go, yes, I did. Like, Kate, every time he hit me, I felt it. Like, my teeth are all chipped. I was spitting out teeth the rest of the game.

Like, I was so embarrassed. She goes, watch the fight again. I go, okay. So I go in the next day and I ask Barry Smith, smudge. I go, smudge. You got the video of last night's fight he goes yeah good job by the way like really so i watched the fight and it's like the mike fisher look like i won but like i guarantee you he wasn't spitting out teeth like i was the whole night so even though like hockey fights and all the ip addresses in toronto voted for me I still think I lost that fight too.

So Kent, maybe Kent McDonnell or something like that. I'll have to look it up. Who knows? It's probably here in the stand somewhere. Last one for me, Canucks players, like who do you keep in touch with all these years later? Who are the guys you're still tight with? Well, this week I've had drinks with Manny.

I've had lunch with the twins and i've had dinner with edler so those are probably my main guys uh i went to kes's house in november uh ham use i talk to all the time but like even like keith ballard and andrew alberts and i try to keep in touch with everybody as much as I can. Kessler and you, how are you guys getting along? Luongo, obviously, Louis, Kess. How are you guys getting along this week, you and Kessler? This week? Yeah, so far so good. That might change.

No, we're good. We're hot and cold. Right now we're hot. Do you root for the Canucks? Did I tell you about the time he gave me the silent treatment for three weeks? Like literally didn't say a word to me at the rink for three weeks. Like, hey, Kes, nothing. Walk right by me.

All because I mocked him because he was faking that his foot was broken. Yeah. You forgot to add Bertuzzi to that list, Berkey. Kessler, Pronger, miserable. Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi was one list, Berkey. Kessler, Pronger, Miserable, Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi was one of those guys too. My first training camp, Bertuzzi, like he gets like three hours sleep

and I'm like, how is this guy going to function? And he goes on the ice. He's got a turtleneck on, no shoulder pads in it. His chin strap undone. And he's got that old Jofa helmet. And we're doing like a one-on-one compete drill. And he's just got like the, whoever he's going against, he's wardinging him off he's got one hand on a stick dangling and he's just laughing right just laughing like that's a pro do you root for the Canucks do you cheer for them to win

yeah I don't you know me like I don't root for anybody like I I just want to watch good hockey I root for my friends and I root for friends that i have in coaching or management or still a couple playing i obviously want the canucks to win yes that's probably the only team i would say that i when i'm watching a game like you and david amber always rooting for the leafs it is painful painful right like david amber so weak well dav David Amber sees a therapist on Sundays when the Leafs lose. It is brutal. Is he here yet, by the way? I don't know.

Hopefully not. Nobody cares. But you guys are diehard Leaf fans, and I'm professional, obviously. And I'm biased, but yes, I do cheer for the Canucks. Kevin Bieksa, ladies and gentlemen, former Vancouver Canucks defenseman, now part of Hockey Night in Canada. Who's next? Hey, does Ryan Kessler still have that insane Little Caesars team? Oh, you know he does. You know he does. Does he still, eh? That's what he's doing now. He's coaching the 2010, his son's team, AAA Little Caesars. They're a wagon. He goes around and

he recruits kids from anywhere so here's another quick story so we're working the Stanley Cup when he said the relationship with Kessler was good this week this is where it's about to end no no no so we're working the Stanley Cup final a few years ago in um the Denver Tampa Bay one and the Avs close it out in Tampa so we're up top we go down we watch the celebration and now the abs are on the ice skating around. Their family are coming on. We go down and our room or dressing room was in between the two dressing rooms, Tampa's and Denver's or Colorado's. So we get into our street clothes and then we're walking. Remember to go get our shuttles and the bus. And I think I was with you

and we walked by Tampa's dressing room and John Cooper's standing out there and I know him a little bit so I was saying hi to him hey sorry blah blah blah and his son's there and his son's a little guy and I go hey nice to meet you goes you're friends of that Ryan Kessler aren't you I go yeah he goes tell him to stop stealing all my teammates I'm like what are you talking about he's like he stole our two best players from our team last year to Little Caesars. So that's Kess in a nutshell right there. He gets kids from all over the state. Alaska, Tampa Bay, everywhere. Canada.

There's supposed to be some rule that you can't play there unless you lived in Michigan last year. Or there's a rule that he's got all the loopholes. So are they all living at his house then? He's got a full-time attorney on payroll. Immigration attorney. What a loser. Thank you, Kevin BX. Thanks, buddy.

My kid, my 2010 played at the tournament in Chicago. Kevin BX, Cam Fowler's a boring guy. Kessler's a thief of players. Carnage interview. Ryan Kessler stealing children?

Yes. That's going to be the headline coming out of this podcast. Don, that's the title of the podcast. Ryan Kessler steals children, according to Kevin Bieksa. With that, we'll bring in our next guest. We're in Victoria. That means it is the home of the Victoria Royals, a team that, after kind of wandering in the desert for a number of years,

have really turned things around. And one of the main reasons why is our next guest, a former NHLer, never spent a day in the minors, by the way. He's the head coach of the Victoria Royals. Please put your hands together for James Patrick. So, first of all, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for joining us today. So, I'm going to try to give this a soft landing.

I think everyone here knows what I'm talking about. From about 2018 to 2023, Victoria wasn't exactly lighting the Western Hockey League ablaze. And then you came in, well, a whole new management staff too what did you change because it almost seemed like right away the victoria royals all of a sudden started to win what did you do well i've only been here for two months so it's um there's there's still a lot of work um you know i was in winnipeg for five years, Kootenay two years before that, got a good feel for junior hockey. Probably coming here, you know, I'd watched the team before I arrived. And the two biggest areas that I really wanted to work on were

the defensive side of the puck, you know, defending plane in the defensive zone and their overall compete level. Um, um, I mean, I think you hear it so much from coaches compete and, and, um, but you know, when I'd watched them play, I felt, um, they could play a faster pace so for me it was about practicing harder and taking that into games those were the two things they really spent a lot of time on the defensive side of the game how can you defend every every team's different and especially in junior you go go through cycles and this team is it's there's a good team there's some good players there but

there's still a lot of growth left there's a couple years could be a couple years away so it with that group of players and and to play against the best teams in the league you have to be able to defend you have to be you have to know what you're doing in the d zone yeah i want them to know what they're doing in all three systems three zones but really spent a lot of time and started with the defensive zone and then um you know you get a lot of you've got 16 or 17 year olds uh junior hockey is a big step for them how serious it is the commitment that needs to to take place um how hard you can work some of the kids have no idea you know how hard how much harder they can work than they are already so i mean those are those are the two big areas you know i i do want to talk to you about

your playing career in a second but one of the things i hear a lot about now is like you played obviously a very high level for a long time in a very different era the pressures and the kids are different now when you started and you looked around at what was around you and you see these 16 and 17 year olds now how much has changed how much of it is different I think the skill level is way higher. Players are, you know, Berkey was saying that, you know, there's still a lack of depth with top six players in the NHL. And maybe that's because there's so many teams, but I think the overall skill level of players is way higher. The things that young kids can do, they've been taught from such a young age.

And, you know, talking about, you know, Ryan Kessler, all these NHL players working with young kids, the kids are taught at such a young age. They go to skill coaches. Their training is way higher. The skill level of young players is way higher. I do think there is more pressure on them. For me, I talk to our team a lot about who has the puck, who wants the puck.

And that has not changed in 80 years. And even when I watch them, I see some of our players and it's like during the game they're doing they're doing a skill drill and and they're working on their pivots and they're doing their ten and twos and I'm going what what are you accomplishing doing that I want I want you going in a straight line I want you going to get the puck it's amazing for younger players when they'll go down the ice they'll shoot the puck the rebound will go in the corner and they'll go around the net and they'll shoot the puck, the rebound will go in the corner and they'll go around the net and they'll go to the top of the circles and they're almost touching the blue line. And I'm going, where are you going? The puck is over there.

And so the thing that hasn't changed is who has the puck. And I mean, I can remember, I mean, my whole career, the best player on the ice had the puck most of the time. And so I do think that is a big thing I try and ingrain in these young players is if you don't have the puck, you've got to go back and get it. You've got to go and compete, two hands on your stick, with a wide stance, stay on your feet and battle for the puck. So, I mean, I don't think that comes naturally to them. I don't know if it's because they didn't play enough pickup hockey

or street hockey when they were young kids. And, you know, the schoolyard games where the best player always had the puck or the ball or whatever sport you're playing. So I think that comes back to compete. That comes back to, I mean, the last three years in Winnipeg i coached a vancouver player named zach benson who was he's an incredible player as you know he was light he was small um his passion his drive was off the charts and he had the puck like his 16 year old and 17 year old year we had we had you you know,

I would consider one of the top teams in the Western Hockey League. We lost in the final last year. We lost to Edmonton, the best team the year before. Those two years, he by far led our team in scoring chances, either for himself or creating them. But he had the puck most of the night. And it was, I mean, he was like, sometimes when I watch Marner for the leafs like it's almost like he's playing like he's 10 years old in a good way like like in the in the schoolyard so can you can you teach that um sometimes i don't know if you can

teach the passion part but you can teach or you can enforce how you want them to play on the compete side, on wanting the puck and not being afraid to have the puck. One final junior one, then I want to move on to your pro career, as Elliot mentions. How is it, I mean, we talked so much about how it's different now, but I want to ask you about how is it different with defensemen now, specifically from when you played to now I know skill sets higher equipment's better all of it but as a coach what do you see now that's different when I watch an NHL game I I've thought about this I see NHL defensemen make mistakes

get beat one-on-one have turnovers that into goals, and you have to get over it. I just find it's the pressure, the speed of the game, how quick things happen, you are going to make mistakes. And you have to bounce right back. You have to put it beside. I mean, I see the best defensemen have turnovers or beat. You know, someone gets a step on them they take it to the net that that I don't think that happened like I mean you'd watch I mean you watch Lidstrom you

could count the number of mistakes or you know that he made over a course of two or three years and they were very low um Ray Bork I just remember Ray Bork would play I think Ray Bork played more minutes than any player in the history of the game because he'd play 35 to 40 minutes every night and he didn't make many mistakes but I think the game is so much faster and so much better so I but I do think that that is a big part of it to play defense now you have to be able to skate you have to be able to play at both ends of the ice it's so different than 30 years ago or 40 years ago when two guys on the team maybe played that way. The strength, you know, when Kevin was talking about the player training with the mixed martial arts guy, I think you need that type of strength to play defense in the NHL. Can you box out? Can

you win battles in the corner? I think that the best defenseman in the NHL now, what you have to do, you have to defend and move a puck. Is that Makar? Is he the best? I think a lot of his skating and what he contributes offensively probably is. I mean, there's times when that Heisken in Dallas, his skating is incredible. But I mean, I watched Josh Morrissey. His skating is real good. Like he is, he's got great mobility. They have vision, but they can all move a puck. If you can't move a puck, you're not going to be an elite defenseman.

Can you defend and can you move a puck? All right. There's always debate. Earlier this week, Marc-Andre Fleury passes Patrick Waugh for second all-time in wins, 552. There was always this debate, who is the greatest goaltender ever? There's Brodeur fans. There's Waugh fans.

There's – Hasek. Well, thanks for ruining it. But, you know, there's Brodeur fans. There's Waugh fans. There's Henrik Lundqvist fans. There's lots of great goalies out there. You had a front-row seat for that Hashek run in Buffalo.

I assume he's your guy by a mile. I don't know if it's by a mile because I played enough against the other great goalies. I mean, I do put Patrick Roy, his intensity and him having to win when it counted, I think him and Brodeur, I think, need to be mentioned in the top of all time. Those guys won more cups than Haschuk.

But for me, I've never played with anyone like Dominic Haschuk. Real eccentric guy. But he was also the hardest working goalie I've ever played with. I can tell you a story. We used to play a lot of Friday and Saturday schedule in Buffalo. We lost Friday at home. I can still remember the game. Ottawa tied it up,

pulled their goalie and tied it up with 20 seconds left on a puck that we could have easily got out of the zone. And then they scored from a foot off the goal line that hit it, took a funny bounce and snuck through his leg. And he didn't give up bad goals. Very often. They scored from a foot off the goal line that took a funny bounce and snuck through his leg. And he didn't give up bad goals very often. So we flew to Carolina. We got in at 1 in the morning, go to the hotel.

And we had a – our meeting was at like 10.30, and then we had a bus for anyone who wanted to skate, but most of the guys didn't, and a couple of the injured guys. And I wasn't playing that night. I was just coming off an injury. I think there was about seven guys on the ice, both, and Dom came out. And, you know, we were even wondering, why is Dom coming on the ice? And so we got on the ice, and Don Lever is the assistant coach, and Dom went up to him and said,

I just want the guys in the semicircle, and I want them shooting. And he stood in the net, and we were probably at the top of the circles, and I bet you for 20 minutes, we took shots. And, you know, this guy shot, that guy shot, that guy shot, that guy shot. We each had three pucks. And then we came back and then we came back. Then he started getting us to alternate. But, and he started saying, okay, when his stick touches the puck, I want you shooting.

And so you're thinking like, I don't want to shoot. You haven't even made that save. And no, and then he would get mad at us. he said no when he is his stick touches the puck I want you to shoot like he was almost saving two pucks at the same time he took 500 shots that morning wow we won two nothing that night um that I mean it was no accident after I played maybe about a month on the team, and I scored on him in practice once. At the end of practice, we were doing some shooting drill,

and I scored. I still remember I scored right under the blocker. And don't think anything of it. And get in the shower, and he walked in the shower when I'm taking a shower after practice, and he goes, you scored on me. You beat me under the blocker block and I couldn't believe it and and this has been a good day for imitations really good

and and I I said yeah yeah I like to shoot at that you know that's my my favorite spot and then it dawned on me like I was surprised that he brought it up but within a couple more weeks I noticed he didn't get scored on in practice. Like he might give up one, two, five goals in a practice. And I'm talking goalies give up 80 goals in a practice. I mean, they take so many shots. It was by the end, I played two years with him, and his work ethic blew me away.

The other thing I will say is the first two or three months, you're on the ice, you know when you're getting scored on. Like the other team's all over you. Someone's gotten beat. You know, a guy's got to step on you. You're diving back and you pass it to a guy who's got a wide open net. And as you're lying there on the ice, you're going, oh, another minus. And he would save it and it didn't

go in and you'd go oh my god I'm still alive you know like I'm not getting scored on that happened that happened a lot so I mean those are that I mean I have never seen a goalie stop the pucks make the saves that he saved or I mean they they teach the kids now, you never quit on a puck. You do not quit, whatever it takes, even if you're beat. And I think he brought that into the game. If I could just tell one similar story to that. So again, Brian McGratton, they were teammates in Ottawa, Dominic Haskett and Brian McGratton.

I went there for a Hockey Night in Canada game. I got in the day before, I got to see Ottawa practice. They were doing shootout practice. And McGrattan was scoring on his rebounds. And in the shootout, rebounds don't count. And I saw Hasek freak out on the ice and say, I can't do the imitation, so I'm not going to do it. So he goes, do not shoot the rebounds.

We're practicing like we play. Rebounds don't count. Stop shooting on the – he got mad. So McGratton goes in again. Hasek stops him, and McGratton scores on the rebound. And Hasek told him, because you do that, you're not scoring a goal on me the rest of the year. And I think this was in November.

I went out there. And I remember I went to go to Ottawa in the playoffs. And I made a note of it. I said to McGratton, I said, is that true? Like, how many more times did you score on him? He says, honest to God, I did not score on him the rest of the season in practice. That's how unbelievable Hasek was. I could listen to Hasek's stories all day. He's one of my

favorite. He's my favorite goaltender of all time. One of the things that you were part of, let me couch it this way. 2004-2005, there was no NHL season, and a lot of players didn't come back. Marc Messier didn't come back. Peter Forsberg

didn't come back. Big name players. You were one of them as well. What do you remember from that final season? Any other good memories you want James to talk about? Well, no. I mean, everyone's career comes to an end when it comes to an end. There's some heavyweight players that didn't come back after that. And then the game all changed.

And it progressed. 05-06 was a really bizarre year as everyone had to relearn the game all over again. This obstruction is now being enforced month to month to month all through the season. What do you remember from that last season before the lockout? Was there a feeling that there's going to be a change

in the NHL? Not by the players. I think we were maybe uninformed, naive. I do know more certain types of players were allowed to play the game because of the obstruction. I played my last six years in Buffalo. My first year I was brought in kind of as a depth guy and then was able to, thinking I was coming in for

one last year we went to the finals lost to Dallas and got a another one-year deal and I ended up playing there for six years on six one-year deals and it just fit right I I played with Lindy and then you know obviously we had a history that we played together for three years in New York. And for me, it was just probably because Buffalo is a small market, couldn't sign free agents. They had to draft and develop their players. And so an older player like me fit good with their young defense. When I got to play with Dimitri Klein and Henrik Talender, Brian Campbell. I've had two years with Brian Campbell as a partner. And I know Lindy had a trust in me at that point in my career. My last year I was 40. And just being a steady guy who tried to defend and not a different

player than probably I was 15 years earlier. But there's no doubt where the game went after that is so much better. Because, I mean, I look back now and there's times it's embarrassing to watch the obstruction. I love the compete. I love the intensity. I love the playoff hockey from all those years, the rivalries. But the obstruction, I think, allowed, allowed you know certain guys who wouldn't be able to play now when it shouldn't have even been able to play at the at the time probably couldn't

keep up skating wise and the speed of the game but but got by on I mean just on the hooking and the holding and the mugging and I think some certain defensemen probably didn't have the yeah are you talking about any defensemen who are on the stage right now no not at all no i mean somebody who played 58 minutes a game certainly could play in any era but um i think the at the time we were led by our union leadership was was bob goodno and, I think, really convinced the players that the reason we were taking a stand, and we will never give in to a salary cap, and I mean, I think Bob was doing what he thought was best for the players. But no one, I mean, we knew a big fight was coming.

No one thought that hockey was going to change the way it did, and there would be no hockey for the whole year, thought that hockey was going to change the way it did and there would be no hockey for the whole year and that we were going to take such an uncompromising stand that it didn't affect my career. I was at the end of my career. But there were guys who probably could have, you know, that did get affected by it.

And, yes, a superstar like Mass probably would have played another year. And when you look at how it's played out, I mean, I think Brian's been so involved in negotiations and collective bargaining agreements, but it is a perfect formula now for the teams and the players when everything is divided and it's all based on the revenues. But at the time, even as a player, I understand that the players were getting

almost like 65% of all revenues were going to player salaries and they needed to correct that. The only way to do it was with a salary cap. I just think we were misled. But I do think what came out of it is, and again, coming out of that lockout, I joined Buffalo's coaching staff, and I was able to be part of those teams

with the next couple of years, three years with Danny Breer and Chris Drury and Afinaganov and Derek Roy and Thomas Vanik. It was awesome hockey coming out of Buffalo for about the next four years. I won an 87 Canada Cup. I actually remember you more in international play. I remember you watching with the 84 Olympics for Canada, but of course the 87 Canada Cup. That was some of the greatest hockey I think we've all ever seen.

Like those 3-6-5 games, you know, Gretzky to Lemieux at the end of game three. What do you remember the most about that yeah for so for those who don't know I was on that team you might not have seen me out there too often but I what I remember is I had the best seat in the house I could have lost as the the Canada Cup in game two and so so I missed, I made the team. I think we kept eight defensemen. I didn't dress the first game.

I dressed the rest of the games. I played pretty regularly up until the finals. And I think game one, I got two shifts. What I remember from the whole thing was probably Gretzky's intensity and Mary Lou Mews coming out party. It's kind of the way I viewed it. In 1984, I got invited to the camp. I was 20 years old and I'd played 12 games in the league, but I played really good.

And because of that, I got invited to the Canada Cup camp with like 30 some players and um like Larry uh Larry Robinson was one of my idols and and I I knew I'm invited and I'm coming to the camp and I fly into Montreal and I go check in the hotel but I'm still thinking what am I doing here like and no one even knows who I am and I went into the gift shop and Larry Robinson walked in and saw me from across the room and said hey James how you doing and like this is it's surreal I can't believe this is happening this is someone when I was 10 years old I'm a diehard Montreal fan watching him play and loving the the Canadians for those four Stanley Cups so that was you know that was an incredible experience for me to be part of that.

So then in 87, I got invited. I, you know, I know I was one of the better players on New York and I was a good defenseman and made the team. But obviously, you know, work and coffee and coffee you know played like big minutes other defensemen who weren't household names stepped up doug crossman doug crossman he was a really good two-way player in philly but probably philly's third defenseman behind mccrimmon and how played awesome norma rochford played awesome larry murphy was always um a way better player than he sometimes looked or was given

credit for. Those guys all played awesome. So in game two, we lose game one, six, five. In game two, I got one shift in the second period and nothing really happened. And then didn't play in the third and we went to overtime. And so I'm not playing anymore. I'm just watching and I'm, you know, praying for us to win. Ten minutes into overtime, Mike Keenan said, okay, coffee and Patrick, you're up. And in that instance, it's 5-5. If we get scored on they it's over like the thought came into my mind I'm not going on I'm like I haven't played for 40 minutes I mean I could have untied my skates I jump on the ice and sure enough it's a Krutov Makarov and Larionov have a three on two

coffee lunges for the puck and they slip it by him which turns into a real quick two on one on me and they pass it right by me and right back and they didn't have Larionov passed it to Krutov who's got a wide open net to shoot it in and end this thing and he tried to pass it back and they fumbled on the pass. It stayed on our end. I remember throwing it out of the zone, and I raced to the bench and dove in. I dove, like, head first. And, you know, shortly after was... Lemieux scored.

Lemieux scored the winning goal in both those games. So those are my memories from the ice. The one thing I do remember is I was the last guy at the party, like at 5, 5.30 in the morning. Me and my buddy shut it down, so I probably still had the energy that I could do that. Let me... Hold on one second.

You mentioned Gretzky's intensity. Tell us about that, because people see Gretzky now, and he's on TV, and he's so friendly, and he's such a great storyteller tell us about the intensity. Well I hate when players I know players I played with young players see Gretzky or see him in an LA King uniform and see highlights of him from them from that era and I'm going like if you would have seen him play in 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88 for Edmonton, you would have seen the greatest player who ever played the game.

The smartest, quickest thinking player who read the game better than anyone. And again, I remember losing 11 to 1 to the Oilers in the heyday and seeing him at his best. And so I think this, I mean, he was still a great player in L.A., but I don't think he was the greatest in the game or maybe the greatest ever. And I think this was maybe not his final hurrah because they won a cup with him the next year.

But just, I mean, seeing how intense he was come game time, once the puck was dropped, he was totally relaxed. I mean, I remember every period in between periods, he'd lie on the floor and put his feet up on the bench, maybe to, I don't know, get the blood flowing or whatever that old wife's tale was. But incredibly hard practice player. Like, the practices were like 50 minutes, and he never stopped.

Like, I think him and Mass really pushed the tempo, the pace of practices. But I just remember every shift of every game he was trying to score, he skated way harder than he was given credit for. He skated better than he was given credit for. So not, Mess was more of the talker in the dressing room. Gretz was just, for me,

Gretz, how he led was what he did on the ice. But I don't know if people realize how intense, how intense he was. I mean, you see some highlights on the great goals and the great plays he's made over the years. He tried to do that every shift.

That's what I remember from that 87 tournament. Let me ask you about that goal, because you mentioned the passing of the torch, Gretzky to Lemieux, and you mentioned Larry Murphy a second ago too. There's a number of really interesting things on that play. I'm curious your thoughts on all of them because you're right there to see it all. Mike Keenan pulls Mark Messier off the ice. The key face-off is taken by Dale Howardchuck, not Mark Messier. Then there's the

Howardchuck hook. Then there's the rush up the ice. And there's Larry Larry Murphy who's at the far side of the net and if Lemieux passes it to him it's an easy tap-in no one in Copse Coliseum nobody watching on television thinks that he's getting that pass but it's a guaranteed goal and Larry Murphy's life probably changes what did you see on that play there was so much from Keenan pulling Messier off to Lemieux firing that goal in. I mean, I've seen the highlights so many times, so I don't know if that blurs what my original thoughts were. I do know, I've watched it enough now that there was one guy, one Russian player who could have backed, if he would have backchecked, he could have ended it, and he didn't. And it's easy to watch the tape and say what could have ended it you know and he didn't you know and it's easy to watch

watch the tape and say you know what could have happened I just I felt at the time in the games watching the games and on the practice that Gretzky and Lemieux were at a different level like but they all you see great players always looking for each other. And, I mean, forever there's always, you know, the great players are great lines. A lot of times there's two superstars and someone who fits with them. And sometimes it's not another really highly skilled player. But so just that was the more that tournament went on, the more they played together.

And, again, I think that was probably, you know, the smartest thing that Keenan did. He shortens his bench quickly, but he goes with his gut feelings. And his gut feeling was to put Hauercheck out there over Messier. But throughout the tournament, as the tournament went on, he kept double-shifting those two guys. Or if they were on different lines, he'd play them on their individual lines play another line then throw them out together for a shift then play them in Individual lines and then throw him out. He he kept doing that So that's the only thing that I remember is it was always those two guys who were making the plays. Yeah

I'm good. I got one more question for you. Why junior hockey for you? I mean you mentioned Winnipeg and like that was a wagon of a a team. Like I, like a lot of us thought like, good, good luck beating these guys. Um, and you're back now with Victoria. What is it about junior hockey for you? So I was lucky when I stopped playing, I coached for eight years in Buffalo with Lindy and then went to Dallas for four years, loved every minute of it of it I I think NHL hockey players are the best athletes in the world they're the most respected they treat the fans the best they care about they care about people they're they're awesome I think Jamie Benn was the best captain he I'll put him up as the best captain in the NHL who's also from Victoria and you know in wrestling they call that a cheap hop. Cheap heat. If I was in Halifax I'd

be saying the same thing and I mean he can play, he's tough, he's old school and cares about his teammates and will do, I mean you talk to the trainers, talk to anyone, how he treats, how he treats people. So I loved it, but I did find my last year in Dallas, we had a tough year and I just, I felt it was a little tougher to get through to, through the players. And I mean, it didn't mean I wasn't, I didn't love doing what I was doing, but I just remember having a young defenseman who wanted to do everything he can to help him. And which is another thing I didn't realize when I was a player. Like sometimes I always thought, oh, the coach doesn't like me or the coach is mad at me.

And when you start coaching, you realize all the coach wants as a coach. How can I help you? How can I help you play better? How can I help you make you become a better player? And I just ended up having a little bit of frustration with a young player who had played 30 games in NHL. I remember we sat him out, and I was shocked at his behavior. And you've played 30 games, and come on. And it wasn't an FU confrontation. It was more about, like, I want to help you. Like, why are you behaving this way?

And so I felt some of those instances started happening more often. But Lindy and I got fired, and Kurt Fraser got fired in Dallas. And I had known Kelly McCrimmon for a long time and ended up calling Kelly. They were just starting the new franchise. And he had left Brandon and gone to Vegas. And was talking to Kelly about if Gerard Gallant had just been hired, if he was bringing his staff with him, which he was.

So Kelly and I had a 15-minute talk. And at the end of it, he said, would you coach Junior? And I said, yeah, I would definitely consider it. And he said, these Winnipeg businessmen have bought a team in Kootenay and they're looking for a coach. Like, are you, you know, do you want me to give them your name? I said, sure. And that's how the connection was made.

I had watched my nephew play junior for three years, and so I was kind of getting familiar with the league. And I loved being an assistant coach, but I always wondered, you know, what is it like to really be a head coach? I loved being an assistant coach, but I always wondered, you know, what is it like to really be a head coach? And I went and I could not believe how fun it is, how enjoyable it is to teach 16 to 20 year olds. They have no choice, but they really do listen and want to get better. Their parents are all laughing because that's not the case at all um but it is i love the relationships like you know kevin was talking about rick bonus and

how he had that relationship you you have the opportunity to develop that relationship with with players that you i mean i had um I had two five-year five-year players last year in Winnipeg and and two other players that I coached for four years that I mean you you really get to know them you get to see them grow from kids to men you you you get to see them through the emotional highs you get to see them through the tears you know the crying when things things don't go well and you're there to help them the whole way you're there to teach them you're there to to motivate them to push them to you're it is so rewarding as a coach and it's fun it's I mean it's fun to run the practice it's fun to run the bench but the probably the relationship and the teaching that you're allowed to do with

young players I just find it so fun so I I just haven't looked to go back to the NHL because it's been seven years in this league and I've loved every minute of it. And you've turned this program around. Ladies and gentlemen, the head coach of the Victoria Royals, James Patrick. Thank you. Okay, time now for the Montana's Thought Line, Montana's Barbecue and Bar, Canada's home for barbecue. Over here. There we go. Try the ribs.

Try the ribs. There you go. Over here first. You're in? All right. Nice Royals jersey. Yeah, thank you. What's your name first? Hayley. Hayley, go ahead. Yeah. So do you think the Lightning are going to have to choose between resigning Stamkos or

keeping the window open? Because if you look at their core, if you take Hedman out, they're all three to eight years younger. And he's still good. He's only turning 34 in a few weeks. So if they keep him, it's going to be for a few years. Does that kind of close the window a little bit? Look, Stephen Stamko has proved the last time out that he did not want to leave Tampa.

Last time he was a free agent was eight years ago. There was a one week. At that time, you had one week you could talk to other teams legally, as opposed to now where they just illegally tamper. And, you know, he cut it short and he stayed in tampa for less money than he could have signed uh dollar wise and anywhere else and the lightning know that they know he wants to stay there and i hope it works out i i really do um but i think it's pretty clear here if if it's going to work out, it's going to work out on Tampa's terms. Excellent. What's your name? Mark. Mark, what's your question? Would the NHL ever

consider abolishing the trapezoid? And if so, how would the game change and who would benefit the most? All right, Jeff, this one's right up your alley. Trapezoid. I don't think that they will. I really, I honestly, I really, I really don't't think that i think they're married to this thing and the only one reason why i say they might consider it is the pwhl has done away with the trapezoid and i think that what what the uh what hockey lacks right now is a league that tries things and the pwhl is trying things almost like an experimental basis and i think a league like the nhl is watching that and saying okay if it's going to be successful there can it work here but trapezoid they've seen married to this thing from the days of marty bradour and marty turco

i just think that if you remember what it was like the goalies killed all the offensive play i don't think they want to let them do that ever again if they can avoid it. Sir, what's your name? My name is Jack Preet, and I'm so thrilled to be here. First of all, I just want to really thank you guys for coming out and for all the things you guys do. My question is, you know, when you look at the Canucks and obviously you look at the lotto line that just obviously

has come back together recently, would it be beneficial for the Canucks to actually look for a second line center instead of a winger? And if you guys have any sort of off-the-radar names that you would consider for that role it's a good question get elliot in trouble good job i like that you know uh i think i would i always look for teams that have made deals before who have the canucks made a trade with this year calgary calgary has a center available. Lindholm. Like, I wouldn't

be surprised if the Flames are one of the teams the Canucks have called about the possibility of, if you move Lindholm, could it be here? I think it's a great question. I think the number one thing you need in the playoffs to win is flexibility. You need to be able to

have guys who can play multiple positions, multiple places up and down your lineup. And if you be able to have guys who can play multiple positions, multiple places up and down your lineup. And if you're going to stick with the lotto line, I 100% agree it might be center before winger. And if you want me to give you a name that's going to get me in a lot of trouble at the end of the podcast, it's probably Linholm. Here come the calls. What's your name, sir? Noah. Noah, what's your question? So with the way that the Senators' season is gone and some of the big money deals that they've handed out to some of their young players, do you think that the Senators' lack of success is going to lead teams to re-evaluate

handing out these sorts of contracts? Are you talking about like the long-term deals to young players? Yeah, exactly. I don't think it will because the analytics say right now that you should pay young players. Berkey would actually be very good to hear about this because one of the biggest debates is a lot of the non-analytical thinking is can young players really handle that much money and responsibility at that age are they really ready um and it's a good question i think some people are better at handling it than others

but analytically if you're gonna pay the biggest dollar for a contract you should pay it when they have a better chance of being in their prime now n, Nathan McKinnon said this week in our interview on Monday, and I've thought about it a lot since he said it, that he thinks primes are longer now because guys do a better job of taking care of themselves. These players are better at being good players longer and later into their careers. However, I will tell you this,

more and more teams start thinking analytically. They're going to say, we should pay players between the ages of 21 and 29. And I think that's kind of where you get. I think it's a great philosophical question. It's a great argument, but people are going to say, when is it better to give Stutzla eight years? Is it between 20 and 29? Or is it between 25 and 34? And they're always going to say the former. But I know what you're asking. It's not an unfair question.

Tyson, go ahead. This is for Elliot. What are the abs going to do with the deadlines for my buddy Nick? Wait a second. Tyson, where's your buddy Nick? Why isn't he here? I don't know. He had to work today. That's a lame excuse. No, I

would say to Nick, I think they're going to go after a goalie, and I think they're going to go after another center. That's what I think they're going to do. We got James here, Elliot. Go ahead, James. Elliot, I really want to see best on best Olympic hockey. You're going to see it. I hear the rink isn't done in Italy though. Yeah, I have to say when that first came out at the Board of Governors meeting in

December, one of the governors was kind of, a couple of them actually were kind of laughing about it. If the rink isn't done, they'll play where they played in 2006, and that was in Turin. Will Gretzky get to, James Patrick says he should. That's one thing. I don't know if, I don't like to count out Gretzky for any particular reason but those Olympics he's going to be 65 I'm not convinced he's going to make the team but they'll play in turn if they can't play in uh in Milan uh here's a good hockey name Keenan go ahead hi Elliot my name is Keenan uh I am a western grad I know you went to Western University. This question is over. But never graduated. That's right. I just wanted to ask you, Elliot, what was your favorite? Well, first of all, what residence

were you in and what's your favorite memory from Western University? Were you a soggy Maitland guy? No, you know what? I'll tell you. So I never lived in residence because in my first year, my roommate, a friend of mine from high school, he didn't get into residence. And I was not at that point in my life, Kenan, where I wanted to chance it with someone I didn't know. So I'd lived off campus all four years at Western. You know, my favorite years at Western is such a great question. And the best way I could say, there were a lot of them. Like, you can divide the world into two people, two types of people, Kenan.

Those who figured it out in high school and those who didn't. And I definitely did not figure it out in high school. But I figured it out a lot at Western. And those were the years where I realized that, like, when I look back at my life now, Ken, I'm embarrassed at how I was before I turned 18. I was a pretty soft person. I didn't have the right attitude. And at Western, I figured myself out. So there were a lot of great moments around Western. But the one thing that I credited with the most and the best thing about it was I didn't figure out life, but I figured out what it took to be successful or more successful at life. And that is what I would say it taught me.

That's a boring answer. Tell us stories about the seeps. I would say that if you went to the seeps and you were able to see brain cells, you would find a lot of mine in there. They tell me I had a great time. Graham, go ahead. What's up, Jelly Dom? So glad to be here with you guys. He's liking that. That's sticking. Yeah, it's sticking. You brought up with Coach Patrick earlier the lockout, and maybe now one of the best stories told from that is Mike Rupp with the Danbury Trashers. Maybe now one of the best stories told from that is Mike Rupp with the Danbury Trashers.

I'm just curious if you guys have any other great stories from that lockout year where NHL players just got scattered around. Oh, my God. I don't remember a lot of good things about that year. There wasn't a lot of good stories that year. That was a really, really tough year. I remember some of the other things I covered that year. Squash. The Canadian Squash Championships The Canadian squash championships. I mean, I'll tell you this.

I don't know if any of you have played squash. It's a great sport, but it was weird covering it. I covered a world skeleton and bobsled event in Calgary. You know, the players, some of them went to Europe. Some of them never played again some of them coached we covered a lot of those meetings I remember a lot of things about it but a lot of what I remember were my make work projects that year that's what I really remember so I could keep my job. We have Tyler.

Elliot, where's Corey Perry going to end up? Well, that's a great question. I know Edmonton's really trying. Does it rhyme with Edmonton? Edmonton's really trying. There's no question about that. I think there's... Someone told me that potentially a couple of the teams he formerly played for could be around this too.

I think the biggest question, Tyler, about whether it's edmonton or somewhere else is does he just want something that's under the radar but i've heard a couple of his former teams have poked around it as well what's your name sir tony what's up so my question is about the calgary flames you talked about a couple of times now, Markstrom and Lindholm potentially. But we talk about, or you talk about, sorry, just about potentially players that could help now. So my question would be in terms of the trade value, if you look at Markstrom and Lindholm,

what type of player could potentially be for that value for Calgary right now? Well, I think for Lindholm, it might be a bit different because he's an unrestricted free agent. Unless they're giving him permission to talk to teams i think that's a different trade but the markstrom deal because he's got term like i think they're looking for a share another sharon govich type like they they look like they got a real fine in him and i think that's what they're looking for is there a a 23 to 25 or 26-year-old player that's in another situation

where either it's not working out for him or that's what it's going to cost you to get Markstrom? I think if you look around the league, those are the kinds of guys that they're looking for. What's your name, sir? Ray. Go ahead. You're on with Elliot. So the question you guys ask,

are you guys allowed to ask questions to the refs because The refs are important part of the game. First of all, it's a great question Secondly, the answer is no And the and actually this is something that I have battled with the league and the officials with about at times Because I think there are times like in other sports, for example Like I don't know how many of you are NFL fans, but there was that big situation in Detroit at the end of the year, and the official made the mistake and they disallowed the touchdown,

and it cost the Lions a couple spots in the playoff rankings. And at the end of the game, they have something called a pool reporter. A reporter is allowed to go and represent all the other reporters and ask questions to the referee. What did you see? What happened? Please explain your call. And that reporter has to share their information with everybody so everybody knows what it is. And I like that. I think that in a controversial situation, that should be the case. The NHL does not allow that. And I don't like it. And I've also told the NHL before that if you want to humanize your officials, explain things.

Like you'll remember earlier this year, before Jay Woodcroft got fired by the Edmonton Oilers, he was kicked out of a game in Vancouver. And looked ridiculous like it looked like I was like what could he possibly and he says postgame I did not swear so everybody's sitting here saying why is he getting kicked out of the game and it turned out like the referee that night Kevin Pollock has refereed 1,500 NHL games that's the first time he's ever kicked the coach out of a game so I'm thinking he's gotta have a reason like there a game. So I'm thinking he's got to have a reason. Like there's just, but because he threw him out

and afterwards, Woodcroft says it in a swear, Pollock comes off looking bad. And I said, why don't you create a situation where he can explain that? Just say, look, like I'm not going to tell you, but I've refereed 1,500 games. I've never kicked anybody out. I think most normal people would look at that and say, look, I'm not going to tell you, but I've refereed 1,500 games. I've never kicked anybody out. I think most normal people would look at that and say, all right, he's got a good reason here.

But the NHL won't do that. I really disagree with it. I think it's wrong. I think it doesn't. Like, referees are human. They make the same mistakes the way I do, you do, everyone does. I think it would go a long way if they explained it. They just disagree. And we all know I'm right and they're wrong. Oh, wow. Ray, thanks, buddy.

Thank you so much. Thanks for asking the question. I'm going to the man with one of the best jerseys in this shop right now. Holy smokes, we've been going two and a half hours here. Don't worry about it. Go ahead, Andy Brown. Hi, it's Ron. I'm from Willowdale originally. Willowdale, Toronto? Willowdale, Toronto. Nice.

Oh, come on. I live there. Give me a break. I had to wear this because the number of people I've talked to about the, I don't know if people know, Andy Brown, friend of my dad's, was the last pro goalie to play without a mask. Have you ever interviewed one of those goalies who would have faced Bobby Hull when he shot the puck 100 miles an hour and they're standing there without a mask? John Bauer.

Gump Worsley. John Bauer, about that specifically. Well, the thing, I think all those guys were crazy. And it wasn't just that they went maskless, but also the equipment was basically napkins taped to your shins. I don't know how guys weren't terrified to play that position. The thing about Hull, too, is you ask him those goaltenders, the first two shots from him were always up high.

Those were the first two, and then he started finding places in the net. But the first thing he wanted to do was remind goaltenders that they're not wearing a mask by by shooting high uh you ever think much about old goalies from that era for each well i remember gump worsley's line by the way ron was that uh he said that hull would shoot at the defenseman's feet to try to break their feet in the skates so he would say like if he's trying to break their feet i guess i have to be the same that i could feel fear because he's trying to break my face it was something like that was his line so they just understood that then that that was part of the deal

and i can't imagine it it's crazy but that's the way they thought um i have interviewed several goalies like you have jeff. I cannot believe that those guys went without masks. It's insane. Insane. Well, you look at the stitches, right? Yeah. Uh, okay. From one great, how do I get over there? How am I going to go this way? Here we go. From one great WHA jersey to another. Oh man. Look at this. That is a thing of beauty. Hang that in the Louvre. What's your name, sir? My name is Carlos. I've got a couple of questions. So I know I'm wearing a Toronto-based jersey, but I'm actually an Islanders fan. So I'm just wondering if you're hearing anything about the Islanders?

It's Lou Lamorello. I'm not hearing a thing. Because, I mean, they had the great runs runs a couple years ago through the pandemic and whatnot but like I don't even watch them anymore because I just find them so boring and uh so I just I'll pass that message along and then my my decomposed body will be found in 12 months yeah no kidding do you hear anything coming out of the Long Island they're looking for a score like there Island coach? They're looking for a score. Like, there's no question they are looking for a score. And that's what I absolutely believe.

Carlos, thanks for that, man. And great journey. Oh, you have another one? Oh, you have more? Okay. So, during the pandemic, you grew that wonderful beard. Yeah. So, I'm just curious, who made the decision to get rid of it afterwards, you or your wife?

Hang on. Who do you think? Well, I'm sure it was the wife. I'll tell you, Carlos, I would have kept it forever. I loved it. I wanted to shave my head too. I concede defeat. So when we came back for COVID hockey, Sportsnet, they did not want me to have the beard. And I understood.

But I said, like, why don't we have some fun? You know, we've just been through an awful lot as a human species. And they agreed for me to keep it for two or three weeks as long as there was a charity component. And so I think I wore it for two or three weeks, and then we raised like $20,000 for a couple charities. So I shaved it off. And I don't hear from the commissioner about a lot of things, but I heard about that.

He's like, when are you getting rid of that thing? When I shaved it, my wife said, I hope you really enjoyed that because it's never coming back. But I did want to shave my head I actually did because I did it once before I liked the way it looks and but my wife she and first of all so like

if you guys all know what I look like if you looked at what she looks like you would listen to anything she said too she's much more attractive than her husband is so she says no. And I'm just like, all right. You know, like, but I, I would shave it off if I could. Will you go the Ryan gets laugh before you go full shave? Would you do that transition in between?

No, no, no, no. No gets laugh. You know, I'll tell you. So when I used to do the NBA, Michael Jordan, he went, he went bald, but he wouldn't cut it all the way off. And one of the first-year Raptors was John Sally. And John Sally said that when the Pistons were playing the Bulls, and before the Bulls won, the Pistons used to really beat up Jordan and physically dominate him. And he said not only did we pound the crap out of Jordan,

but we would also tell him just to give up already and shave it all off and not go halfway like he is. And that used to make Jordan even crazier. And I remember hearing that story and saying, if I ever go bald, I'm not going to go short. I'm going all the way. So that's the way I would do it. All right. Last question to Finley in a beautiful Bruins jersey. That's pretty ballsy going all the way. So that's the way I would do it. Alright, last question to Finlay in a beautiful Bruins jersey. That's pretty ballsy by the way. Wearing that in British Columbia, good for you. First of all, I want to say thank you to you too. This is a great event and super stoked to be here. But as a Bruins fan, I've been wondering about this question for a while and obviously the Bruins have two stud goalies,

Swayman and Olmark, and they have Bussey in the minors, who's doing pretty well as well. I'm wondering what you think about possibly the Bruins moving on from one of their goalies to bring Bussey up in order to fill out some of the gaps they have in their forward core. I think teams have called about Olmark. I think they did in the summer, Elliot.

Yeah, but Olmark has some control. I think they're called about Allmark. I think they did in the summer, Elliot. Yeah, but Allmark has some control. He's got... I think they're going to extend Swayman. Then, I think what they will do is they will make all decisions this summer. They will extend Swayman. They will get that done. Then, they will start making decisions on

what else to do. Linholm, I could see him ending up in Boston long term. I'm not convinced the Bruins are going to trade for him. I think it's possible if they do it, they do it in the offseason. But I think this is going to be, I think the goaltending decision once they get Swingman signed comes this summer. great stuff i can't believe that like we've been here going like this is the longest podcast two hours and 40 minutes thank you to all of those who stayed yeah i can't blame anyone who left but i i really appreciate all of you who stayed.

Thank you so much. Absolutely. We're very lucky to have an audience like you. Watch your glasses. Yeah, thanks. Thanks to the entire staff here, too. Wow, this really has thinned out, eh? Yeah, I can't say I blame you.

People have things to do. Thanks, everyone, all the staff here. Thank you very much, all of our crew. Dom, good luck, buddy. Editing this one together, this beast. Listen, Scotiabank Hockey Day in Canada, a really proud tradition. Elliot's going to grab a nap after this.

I have. Look forward to that on Saturday. All seven Canadian teams in action and two PWHL squads in New York faces off against Boston. It is an annual tradition in this country and it's one of the great things that we're able to do

as a broadcaster. So I hope you get to park some time, a little bit of time, all of your time on Saturday watching Hockey Day in Canada. On behalf of our entire crew, thanks so much for having us.

You have a wonderful city. Elia has now enjoyed it. Oh, thank you. Next pod comes out Monday morning.