32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Loss Of A Legend

Episode Date: April 15, 2022

Islanders legend Mike Bossy passes away at 65. Jeff and Elliotte kick off the podcast talking about the Hall of Famer by sharing some of their favourite memories and discussing his impact on the game (00:01). They also pay tribute to the late Tom McCarthy and talk about his time with the Minnesota North Stars (10:20).The guys get into some news around the NHL as Carey Price is set to make his return (13:50), Pat Foley's final call in Chicago (16:30), Anaheim is knocked out of playoff contention (20:25), Matthew Knies returns to the University of Minnesota next season (35:35), and they discuss the Eugene Melnyk piece in The Athletic (33:20). Plus, they take your questions at the end of the podcast (38:00).Music Outro: Hak Baker- Venezuela RiddimCheck out more music from Hak Baker on Spotify and catch him on tour in the UK this MayThis podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Audio Credits: CBC, Bally Sports Arizona, NBC Sports Chicago, NHL Network, Sportsnet and WGN Radio.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates. 

Before I go, I just want to tell you that you don't have a choice. You won't forget me with that big sweater hanging up there. But I want to let you know that I'll never, ever, ever forget the 10 years that I played on Long Island and the fans that supported me. Thank you very, very, very much. Elliot, we start the podcast today on a very sad note. The hardest thing you can do in hockey is score goals. And when you hear things like you can't teach touch, you're just born with it.

Elliot, I think about Mike Bossy. It seemed as if he was born to score goals. 50 and 50, that's Mike Bossy. Back-to-back Stanley Cup winners, that's Mike Bossy. A Calder, a Consmith, Hall of Fame nod, that's Bossy. A huge part of one of the greatest dynasties the game has ever seen, that's Mike Bossy. And now, unfortunately, Elliot, Mike Bossy has passed away at the age of 65.

You said it off the top, it's sad. I will say this, I loved talking about Mike Bossy. I loved watching Mike Bossy with the news of his death this morning you talk about the rabbit hole you go down sometimes uh hockey db or youtube clips oh yeah I did that this morning when when the news came down there were so many stories and videos of Mike Bossy I looked back and watched because when I grew up my two favorite players before Wayne Gretzky hit the NHL were Mike Bossy and Guy Lafleur and even while Gretzky was in the NHL I still loved Bossy and Lafleur as much as I loved him and they were such great players like I was a

terrible hockey player but I was a winger because I loved Bossy and LeFleur I wanted because that's how I figured goal scorers were they played the wing because that's what those two guys did unfortunately Jeff I was also stupid and I was a left-hand shot I didn't you know become a righty like those guys one of the things about Bossy is his confidence. The Islanders republished or relinked to the player tribune piece today, where he tells the great story about his contract disagreement with the Islander GM, Bill Torrey, after he was drafted. And he said, I'm going to score 50 goals this year. And everybody laughed and he did did but there was another story about bossy i heard a couple of times throughout his career and he did confirm it to me later which is that when he was

a kid when he was playing hockey whether it was on the ice or on the road when he was imagining who he was scoring game-winning goals or stan goals. He would say, I imagine myself because I wanted to believe I could do it. And I believed in myself that I would do it, that I would be the person who would score those big goals. Bossy was never shy on confidence. And there's another great clip of him. He's talking about the last Stanley cup they won, which was when they beat the Oilers. The most satisfying Stanley Cup for me was the fourth one that we won when we beat Edmonton 4-0.

Because everyone thought that Edmonton was supposed to take away the Stanley Cup that year. And when we beat them 4-0, it was like, you know, it's not your time yet. You know, you got to learn to win before you can win. And he says this with this little smile that you could see even, you know, 40 years later, whenever it was he did it, that it was still that meaningful to him that they beat the Oilers. And then later on, he says, says you know what the next year they earned it they just crushed us but his confidence and I think confidence is so important I always tell young people now you know there's going to be a lot of other people out there that are going to question you so you have to believe in yourself and Bossy had that I love that about him you know

what I loved about Bossy was all? And that confidence thing is so true. And the other thing that he did is the way that he scored goals. Man, I would talk to Kelly Rudy about Mike Bossy all the time. And one of the things that we would talk about is how he would score five hole. And from a goaltender's point of view, you know what kills your confidence? The feeling of a puck going through you. If a puck just goes in the corner, like it's a perfect shot,

you say to yourself, well, it's a perfect shot. What am I going to do with that? But Bossy scored goals that just didn't count on the scoreboard, but also destroyed your confidence. How many times, Elliot, did you see Bossy score five hole?

Like, honestly, I can't think of, and I'm sure someone has the numbers out there for this because these types of things exist. I don't know that I ever saw anyone score more goals five hole than Mike Bossy. And he just would go about destroying the confidence of everybody around him. It was almost like psychological warfare. I'm scoring and I'm going to make you feel vulnerable in the process. Yet at the same time, you know the one goal that I always think of when I think of Mike Bossy? I hope you think of the same one I'm thinking of. What are you thinking of? 1984, the tip. I'm Out come the Soviets on a two-on-one. Only Kofi is back. Over the line, Coburn and Kofi! Great defensive play in Canada and transition back they come.

I'm glad you said that because that is the best hockey game that nobody remembers. So good. Sutter clears it out in front, went off a leg. Now Tonelli doing all that work again and he takes two players down with him. Al Tonelli doing all that work again and he takes two players down with him. And that last sequence is beautiful and violent and creative and skilled and emotional. It's a great hockey sequence. See, he's talking about the 1984 Canada Cup cup and that canada cup is such a story it's such a forgotten tournament because it you know it didn't have the drama of 87 which is some of the greatest

hockey ever but what people won't remember or you weren't alive to see is that 72, Canada beats the Soviet Union in the biggest series of all time. Then in 76, the Soviets aren't as good. Canada beats the Czechs to win the Canada Cup. 79, Challenge Cup, and that's in New York. The Soviets versus the NHL All-Stars, and Jerry Chevers got clobbered. They lost the game 6-0. And I remember people are like whoa like that's a bad loss then 81 canada cop 8-1 in the final that's a bad loss and then in 84 jeff

what people don't remember is that canada really struggled in that round robin they sure did they were two two and one and in 81 canada beat the Soviets in the round-robin game, and the Soviets later admitted they were playing possum. But in 84, they were going to do the same thing, but Messier injured a Soviet player, and they got mad, and they blew Canada out of the building. And so they were really reeling. And you talked about it.

It was the two-on-one in overtime where Paul Coffey made the play of his life. Breaking up that two-on-one was gorgeous. The best defensive play of Paul Coffey's career, period. Yes. And then they go down the ice and John Tonelli commits like five felonies in the offensive zone. He drags down like three at a time in one sequence. Jeff's not joking. It's true.

If you watch the highlight, he legitimately pulls down two people. It might be three. I remember two. But he won two or three puck battles to keep it alive, and then Coffey shot and Bossy tipped at home. And that is the best game that no one remembers, and that's the biggest goal in Canadian hockey history that people don't remember.

And in 84, the other thing too is, and I once asked Larry Robinson this, and he kind of demurred, but the Oilers and the Islanders, one of the reasons Canada struggled was the Oilers and the Islanders couldn't get along. They were split. And it was Larry Robinson who said, we have to stop this to win the tournament.

There was that same feeling in 87 between the Oilers and the Flyers as well. But you're right, 84 was really, really pronounced as well. That was a great goal, a great tip, one of the best tips the country has ever seen. Listen, nine straight 50 goal seasons. And he would have gotten there. He was on pace to get there again in the last year. You know, at the beginning of the season, you're going through players and somebody say,

oh, pencil this guy in for 30. Oh, pencil this guy in for 40. Like you could legitimately begin it at the beginning of every season, Elliot. Pencil Bossy in for 60. It's like, oh yeah, Bossy's going to score 60 goals. Like that's just how elite this guy was. Listen, I know this has been a really tough year for Islanders fans

and the Islanders alumni and the Islanders organization with the passing of Clark Gillies, with the passing of Jean Potvan. All I think I can say is, you know, we offer our condolences. We see you, we know how this organization and the fan base and the alumni is hurting. And, you know, we just hope that, you know, all the many memories that Mike Bossy gave you, and he gave us all plenty, can bring everybody involved with the Islanders at every single level some comfort. Elliot, we should also mention the passing of Tom McCarthy, who passed away at the age of 61. Tom McCarthy was a really good hockey player.

Tom McCarthy was a really good minor hockey player growing up, was first overall in the junior draft in Ontario ahead of Wayne Gretzky, was an outstanding player all the way up, was one of the can't-miss kids growing up in the city of Toronto, found himself on a really good line with Neil Broughton and Dino Cicerelli with that Minnesota North Stars squad. I know there were some off-ice issues and troubles, and he was always open and honest about them. And there's a wonderful old hockey night piece fronted by Scott Morrison where he interviews

Tom McCarthy where he talks about how he came to peace with his past and how all of his actions, he felt worse for the people around him than he did for himself. He really came to some type of self-realization. I think we were all stunned and certainly saddened to find out that Tom McCarthy passed away at the age of 61, Elliot. Yeah, I remember not only Scott's piece, Steve Simmons did a great piece on him a few years ago. Sure did.

Just a real talent and a really sad story about his passing during surgery. And I just remember that Minnesota team, and you and I were reminiscing about this a little bit on the radio, that was a young team that was it seemed destined for greatness like they went to a Stanley Cup final so you go to 1980-81 that team looked like they were going to be a stud team they went to the Stanley Cup finals and they lost but that was okay everybody lost to the islanders then that was when the islanders were on their streak of 19 series in a row they did win one game they did win one game and that 19 in a row is never going to be broken by the way

but you look at that team like mccarthy that year he didn't play the full playoffs but he had 23 goals but bobby smith was a number one center. I think Craig Hartsburg, if he stays healthy, he's in the Hall of Fame. Dino Cicerelli had 18 goals in 32 games in the regular season and 14 and 19 in the playoffs. Steve Payne had 17 goals in 19 games in the playoffs. You've talked about Brad Maxwell before. That year, Don Beaupre was a rookie goaltender who took the job and led them to a Stanley Cup final. That team looked like it had a chance to be great.

Now, you had the Islanders and then you had the Oilers and those teams were even better. Nobody was competing with the two of them at the time, but that Minnesota team looked like it was going to be a of them at the time but that minnesota team looked like it was going to be a real good team for a real long time and you know there were a lot of issues that plagued them and not not all of them had to do with hockey and it's a real shame because that team had real potential you know you just look at the ages to your point about how young that team was bobby smith 22 you know ste, Steve Payne, 22. Tom McCarthy, 20.

You talk a lot about Craig Hartsburg, 21 years old. Dino Cicerelli, 20. Kurt Giles, who we don't talk about enough ever, 22 years old. You're right. This was a young team. They were just a really good young team

in a dynasty era, trying to compete against the Islanders. And then later, to your point, the Edmonton Oilers are, listen, our condolences to both the bossy and the mccarthy family jeff i know this is a little bit of a hard turn from unfortunately the way we have to start this podcast but there is something to look forward to on friday and that is that carrie price is making his season debut for the montreal canadians and first all, I just want to say, I want to rip the Canadians for their lack of drama.

He should be making his debut on Hockey Night tomorrow night for the viewers. You know what? You know why tonight is perfect, Elliot? Here's why tonight is perfect for Carey Price. Everything is done so well at the Bell Centre. Everything is done so well in Montreal. Yes.

Elliot, the Islanders are playing the Habs tonight. You know, Mike Bossy grew up, obviously a Montreal Canadiens fan. Yes. This is his team, the New York Islanders. You know, there's going to be a special moment for Mike Bossy. I honestly think this is a,

this will be a wonderful night to both look back and celebrate the life of Mike Bossy and also welcome back Carey Price. And that is something that is long overdue. It'll be a bittersweet night. We'll be happy for Carey Price and we'll be reflecting on the life of Mike Bossy, Fridge. You're totally right. It'll kind of remind you a little bit of the night where they honored Boom Boom Jeffrey

on. That was one night I will always remember. I mean, you hit it out of the park there, Jeff. If there's an organization that will handle this the way it needs to be handled tonight, it's going to be the Montreal Canadians and absolutely a game against the

Islanders in Bossy's home province. It's going to be something special. We all know it. We don't even have to wait for it. We all know it. Rebound to the far side. Lysiak to Jeremchuk. Bumped in the far circle. Now Lysiak moving in the shot. Malashvili. The goal! Hawks win! Hawks win! Daryl Sutter ends the game in overtime. Hawks win! Boland sends Kane into the zone.

Patrick Kane, a spin around, a backhand, and he scores! Patrick Kane putting on a show on St. Paddy's weekend for Savoir Faire! And it's 8-1. How do you like me now? Chutron. Crawford. Bump it up. Rebound.

It's cleared to center for Thames. He got a breakaway! Thames to win the game! Hawks win! Hawks win! Jonathan Thames found the puck in center ice

and the Blackhawks have captured the victory on the road and can close it out Sunday at home. Jonathan Taves, the backhand winner. That's a great Pat Foley, Elliot Friedman,

and there are just some voices that become synonymous with a team. And I don't think we'll ever be able to hear Pat Foley's voice and not think of the Chicago Blackhawks. Pat Foley signs off after 39 seasons behind the mic for the Hawks. Your thoughts? I love Pat Foley. I think he had unbelievable calls of games. And when he was really wound up in the excitement and in the moment,

we started off the last podcast with Bob Cole getting his achievement award yes up here in Canada and you know Foley was one who also like when the crowd got into it and Cole listened to the crowd he let the kind of crowd be part of the orchestra I think would be the best way to put it when Foley felt the crowd he got excited it was almost like he was one of them Cole was conducting them Foley was maybe in the brass section he was part of it he would get wired and I just love the way he called games like he would be so on top of Chicago's big moments and you know people forget for a long time there weren't very many of those this was a franchise that went through an incredibly long dry spell uh before this era of the blackhawks led them to three stanley cups you know he deserved some great games to call there was there was no question about

it you know jeff we're getting into our 50s here we're both in our 50s now we're starting to see some turnover over the last few years you know you take a look at in some of these cities you know where we were 10 years ago with who was calling games and where we are now you know we're starting to see some people age out we're starting to see a even more of a new generation coming in and you know i listen to pat foley and i still think you know he could have gone on i i don't think he was done as far as I was concerned, but everybody has their time and this is his. But again, it's another example of our youth going

and a guy that for me, when the crowd was riled up, he was an extension of them. What I always liked about Pat Foley is he kept his big calls brief and let the moment stand for himself. At university, I was a big fan of Ernest Hemingway, this tense, tight style, really brief, short, choppy sentences. And I always felt that when I was listening to Pat Foley, I always say to myself, if Ernest Hemingway called hockey games, it would be Pat Foley. As I always say to myself, if Ernest Hemingway called hockey games, it would be Pat Foley. Something simple as he scores. Like how many times have you heard Pat Foley just simply say he scores like really brief, tight, just two words. I always appreciated that about Pat Foley.

He didn't want to get his tongue wrapped around anything huge. Didn't want to complicate a moment because the moment was already big enough as it was. And he was just there to add a little bit of color to the moment. I always appreciated that about Pat Foley's call. And to me, that's what distinguished him from, I'm not saying the one style is better than another, but that was, that's the style I always think of when I think of Pat Foley calls. Yeah.

I loved his calls. think of pat foley calls yeah i i loved his calls and uh you know just another example jeff of how you and i are geezers and uh someday we're gonna have this podcast to two younger whippersnappers whippersnappers and and they're gonna take it to a level that we are incapable of going but amal will still be producing he was still this, a young whippersnapper himself. Amal Delic will still be carrying on through whatever this podcast. Unless the two of us drive him to a heart attack, of course. Which may happen.

Which may happen. Which could happen. Congratulations to Pat Foley from everybody here in this corner of the hockey world. One of the things that we've been doing as teams get eliminated is talking about what's next

for those squads. And there are a couple more on the horizon and one that we should get to. And that's the Anaheim Ducks. So the Anaheim Ducks, who saw a season where they got out of the gates a lot better than people thought. They hung in and around a playoff spot a lot longer than people would have thought. Trade deadline came and went. And what went with it was a number of players. They got a new general manager in the process.

Dallas Aikens, the team has picked up the club option. He returns for one more season, at least with the Anaheim Ducks. But the question now becomes, and Ryan Getzlaff, how could I forget that? Ryan Getzlaff is about to call it a career. Kind of important. That's just a little bit important, yeah.

Like, listen, there's good players on the horizon. We think of, you know, Mason McTavish is front and center here. Olin Zellweger, the outstanding defenseman, is another one. But, you know, what's next for Pat Verbeek's team? What comes up this summer? Boy, I think that's a great question. Well, we know it's a rebuild. And we know they're transitioning, right?

They're transitioning from the Getzlaff era Ducks to, I mean, is it going to be the Cam Fowler Ducks? Who's the next captain of this team? Okay. You want to hear my hot take of all hot takes? Okay. I don't think the next captain's on the team yet. That could be true. I don't, it's not your worst take.

You've had some awful ones the reason i think that what you're saying makes a lot of sense potentially is that you know pat verbeek i'm going to start calling him eiserman light because i think there's there's a lot of that i mean they've worked together for a long time they were both really good players eiserman's on another stratosphere in terms of a player but ver Verbeek was a really good player, but I think they think similarly in a lot of ways. And that was continued again this week by Iserman has been very loyal to Jeff Blashill and

you know, Pat Verbeek came in and said, why would I get rid of Dallas Aikens? I'm still learning to see what's going on here. And there's been a lot of change. And so, you know, I think's been a lot of change and so you know I think there's a lot of similarities there and one thing that Eisman has really shown is that you know he looks for certain kinds of players he's on his young players he wants the best talent he can get obviously but on his veterans he's not really married to anybody he doesn't have a lot of guys with term he goes out and he brings

in veterans who he thinks as you said will give him trade value but also veterans who have good reputations who work hard and you know have really good habits and i think we could see anaheim going that way too and you know for me i thought it would make sense that a guy like Fowler would be the next captain, but do we know for sure he's even going to be there? I mean, you know, we don't know that. They seem to be pretty eager to turn it over as quickly as they could, and we'll see if Fowler's part of that. So I think you have a good theory.

Like, I'm really curious to see what this roster is going to look like next year, because I don't think they're finished tearing it down necessarily. No, nor do I. And the reason that I mentioned, I don't know that the, uh, the next captain is on the roster right now is I think, and again, he hasn't, you know, he did play some games at the beginning of last season, but if everything quote unquote goes according to plan for the Anaheim Ducks and Mason McTavish, I can see it being Mason McTavish, just knowing how this kid conducts himself, what the skillset is, how he projects. Like I can, like, can you not, like we all know that up the gut for the next 10 years.

I think that's a lot to ask. I know it is. And that's why I'm saying I'm getting ahead of myself here. Yeah. I don't think that's a good idea. Up the middle, you know, it's going to be Mason McTavish and Trevor Zegers. Yeah.

That's the plan. That's the plan. And I know I'm getting ahead of myself on the captaincy with McTavish and all that. I'm just saying that as we look ahead with the Anaheim Ducks, all I'm saying is I could see it. And I don't think, you know, couple that with, I don't think the anaheim ducks are in any hurry to as soon as getzlaff retires find someone else to wear the c right away i don't think there there's there's any urgency to that whatsoever nor nor is there really ever when you're going through a rebuild the likes of which anaheim is going to go through here well maybe then you go

with a bunch of a's and then you figure it out along the way. Yeah. It makes perfect sense. Like if you were to tell me it was Fowler, I like to me, that's fine. Like, I think he'd be a great choice, but your way works a lot too. And I think the big one is Gibson. I think Gibson wants to win.

Well, you're watching him the other night in that game against Florida. He was on freaking believable. You know, he, he really was great. And that's the kind of effort you hold from him, and that's the kind of effort he's going to give you in a lot of nights.

But I think when you're at the point where he is in his career, and during next season he'll be 29 years old, there's a big difference between making 55 save games for a team that has a chance to win the stanley cup and a team that really doesn't and next year anaheim is going to be really doesn't it before this year some people have said some interesting things to me about gibson you know and this week when i kind of talked on your show and on the podcast of whether or not it's time to trade for him. And they felt that last year he got really frustrated because he didn't think the team was going anywhere. And I guess he had a long talk with some people in the organization and

they said, look, we're trying to be better next year and we need you to come back in the right frame of mind. And he did. And at the beginning of of the year we talked about how good he was and how he was establishing himself as a team usa starter for the olympics and obviously didn't go and this year has gone where it is and they look like they're going where they are and he would have i don't want to put words in his mouth but he would have every right if he wanted to come out and say look guys you told me we're going to go for it this year i came back with a better attitude i gave you everything you wanted well if we're going in the other way now it's your turn to pay me back and say it's time to go

elsewhere where i have a chance to win and uh i don't know that that's going to happen but it wouldn't surprise me if something like that happened. I think he wants to win. And like I said, he's turning 29 this summer. I don't know if this is the right place for him, but that's his decision to make. You know,

I'm willing to bet that you and I were told the exact same thing about one particular issue. And that is Hampus Lindholm and the thought, and this was around the Anaheim Ducks for pretty much the entire season once it became obvious that you know they're probably going to move on from Hampus Lindholm what I was told is if Anaheim makes the move and gets rid of Hampus Lindholm watch John Gibson because to your point that's the indication to Gibson that we're taking a step backwards to be able to take a big step forwards. But in the meantime, watch John Gibson. Because that's the indication to him that we're not moving this thing forward.

Not right away. So I'm like you. I share that exact same curiosity. Before we turn the page completely on Anaheim here, there's something that's been making me a little crazy i can't believe this zegras thing is still a story this arizona zegras thing is still a story can i suggest why yeah i i know why but even you know even verbeek weighed in this week but yeah i wanted to play something so okay let's do it so this happened on a friday night a couple weeks ago. And then a couple days later, Arizona played in Chicago.

And Todd Walsh, who is their longtime TV reporter, and now it's Valley Sports Arizona, he interviewed Jay Beagle. And I asked Amal to leave in the questions so everybody could hear the context of it. Here it is. Was there something to the totality of the game, the progression of the game, the manner in which they displayed some of their emotions? Did that lead to any of this, or was this a singular moment in a hockey game?

Yeah, no, I think it's, I mean, I read, I'm not dumb. I read all the reports. I mean, you hear all the chatter and no, I think it's, I mean, I read, I'm not dumb. I read all the reports. I mean, you hear all the chatter and no, I think it's, it's something as simple as, you know, for me, it's pretty black and white. You poke the goalie, it's five, nothing. There's going to be something going to happen. That's the game. It's happened to me.

It's happened a million times. And so you kind of, you got to have that onus. You got to take accountability and be accountable for of you got to have that onus you got to have you got to take accountability and be accountable for what you do and you know it's too bad um you know you don't want to ever see anyone get hurt um and but you know you have to be accountable for what you do and for your actions and and um, you know, I felt like they didn't handle that very well when it was five,

nothing. And we were, you know, obviously not going to let that happen. So I've dealt with Jay Beagle for a long time. I forgot that he was, somebody actually pointed out to me. I forgot he was actually on the podcast once. Yeah.

We talked about watches. I disagree with the way he handled terry there i thought he should have stopped i've been pretty clear about that but i think a lot of what's happening out of this is really unfair to him in the sense that i don't like it when people project on me and they say well they feel something or they've heard something so they feel that the way they think that's the way i must feel too i just wanted to put beagle's words out there because this whole skilling it up thing which won't end it's ascribing a motive to him that he says wasn't the reason now do I think there were some people on Arizona

who maybe were not happy with Zegras yes do I think that's kind of dumb yes but I don't think that's the way Beagle felt and I just wanted to put his words out there because I don't like it when people judge me based on things that I don't say and you know I just based on things that I don't say. And, you know, I just thought about this and the fact that this is still going on, at least in his case, I think it's a little bit unfair. You saw John Cooper's comments about it, right? No, I didn't. What did he say?

So here's what John Cooper said. This is Thursday morning about, you know, Trevor's egress and the showboating, et cetera. Quote, I don't think these kids are showboating. I think that's what they've grown up doing and it's the norm. I agree with that. I think that is through everything, Elliot, that we've read or heard about this incident.

He's the first to point out something that should be as obvious as the oxygen around us. This is the game to them. This is what they've grown up in. You know, we talked a lot about the Connor McDavid group of hockey players, which I still think is the first ones that really captured what this game is coming out of the change of the rules and the change of the way the game was played coming out of the 0-4-0-5 lockout where a lot of players had to break habits and relearn the game, play a whole new way, teach themselves new instincts.

The Conn-McDavid group, I personally feel, was the first group to come in that era of player that has played with that rules package that we saw coming out of 0-4-0-5 all the way through to the NHL. And that to them is just hockey. And I think Cooper's point winks at that when he says, this is what they've grown up doing and it's the norm. That's the way kids play. Go around any hockey rink, go around any youth hockey, minor hockey rink right now, whether you're watching a game, hockey, minor hockey rink right now, whether you're watching a game,

whether you're watching practice, anything. That's the game to kids now. Because Elliot, the Trevor Zegers' and the Jack Hughes' and all of them, and all the kids coming in right now, this is the way they've always played. This is the way they behave. This is their game.

Of course, I get it. And I completely agree with you. You're right. It's the social media generation. It's this generation. This is the way they are. I don't see the need to relitigate this. I think we both agree and we both feel that that's the case. I can't even believe that this is still being discussed.

And now I've made it even worse by, by discussing it again. I just think that, I don't know. I think the whole narrative around this is just weird because like i said maybe other guys on the arizona team didn't like it fine like i think that's stupid but whatever but the person himself who's taking a lot of the heat for it because he was right in the middle of it has come out and said that wasn't why i did it so i don't know it's just it's weird to

me it's weird okay i want to ask you about the uh eugene melnick piece in the athletic i don't know. It's just, it's weird to me. It's weird. Okay. I want to ask you about the, uh, Eugene Melnick piece in the athletic. I don't want to take you down one very specific road of questioning. So I'm going to leave it open-ended here, Elliot. What did you make of the entire piece? I had a few people reach out to me who were, uh, who either do work there now or have worked there then. I know that there were some people who didn't agree with the timing of it. They felt that, you know, once Eugene Melnick had died, the piece should go with it. Fine. I think people are entitled to their opinion. You know, I will say this.

I think it's very obvious. And if you heard Katie's interview on the athletic podcast, she really hinted on this. And that is that I absolutely believe there were some people who wouldn't talk out of fear while he was alive that decided to talk after this was over. And I think that's why the piece got done at the end. I think it's a pretty accurate portrayal of the way life was in the Sanders. I can't speak to some of the individual comments that were attributed to him or made with him. I didn't like some of what I read, obviously, but I can't speak to them. But the overall tone

of what it was like to work there, I think there were a lot of people that would agree with that. And it was similar to what I heard and what I wrote and said when it was announced that he had died. But I think what really happened was there's no doubt in my mind, Jeff, that there were people who the athletic knew about for a long time who weren't willing to say anything while Melnick was alive under threat of litigation or whatever fear. And after he died, they decided to come forward. I don't think there's any doubt that that's the case. However people feel about the timing of the publication,

and I know there are people who feel very passionately both ways, everyone's entitled to their opinion. At the end of the day, from what I understood from people who worked there, it was a fair picture of what it was like to work for the Senators under Melnick, good and bad. Elliot, before we get to a couple of emails here, I want to ask you about Matthew Nyes. Sorry, Maple Leafs fans, you'll have to wait for one more season as Matthew Nyes has decided to go back to what should be

a star-studded Minnesota Golden Gophers squad, Elliot. Yes, they do. They have a heck of a team, Jeff, and they have Logan Cooley committed to going there. And for those of you who are not familiar with him, he's a very highly rated prospect. Oh, boy. And he could be on an NHL roster next year.

We'll see. But that makes them even better. And I think NICE wanted, he sought his unfinished business. They lost the frozen for this year. He's in no hurry and he wants to go back and try. And I think Toronto was prepared for it. I think they knew that that was very likely going to be the outcome. And, you know, I think Toronto told him that. I think basically Toronto's message was,

we'd love to have you, and here's where you'd play if you played now. And I think he would get an opportunity. But, you know, I don't think they were really interested in kidnapping him. If he really wanted to go back, they weren't going to fight him. And the other thing I heard is that Toronto's not worried about this being a situation where the kid doesn't want to play for them.

And I asked the advisor, Matt Federico, that, and he said that was the case. He is happy to play for them. I think the other thing I heard, someone else called me and they told me that, you know, Nyes was a kid who, as you know, Jeff, and you follow this much more than I do, he was a first-round talent, and he fell because he had a really bad season last year.

And I heard as he watched himself kind of fall through the draft, he basically said, whoever takes me, I'm going to make them happy they took me. And Toronto got it, and one of the things a couple guys from other teams were telling me was he turned out to be a big steal for them where they got him. So I think he feels some loyalty to them because of the way he was dropping in the draft. And, uh, I don't think anybody here's worried. He's not, he's not going to be coming next year. You know, I had John Marossi on the, uh, on the radio show a couple of days ago,

and I were going through all the college kids that are turning pro and I got around to Matthew Nise. And one of the things that he said full stop was you know the Toronto Maple Leafs if you redraft um you know uh Matthew Nye's draft he's in the top 10 and he knows college kids looks like the Maple Leafs really got a steal on this one okay um a couple of emails as we wrap up the podcast today and again some really good ones today some really good ones and we're going to start with a really thoughtful one. Subject line, what does 32 thoughts mean to you? Hi, Jeff, Elliot, and Amel.

Hope you guys are well. Brandon Povilidis from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania here. Been listening to the podcast since the first episode. Wow. And I've never missed one. Now, I could ask Jeff about the history of

the goal horn or ask Elliot something goofy about salary caps that teams will exploit. Heck, I could even ask Amel what it's like to carry the podcast on his back each episode. That's true. I know, I know. But I want to know, as someone who loves the podcast and is grateful for it each time, what does doing this podcast mean to you three? It's become a big part of hockey media, in my opinion.

And if you ever get back to Pittsburgh, Primanti Brothers is on me. Good job, Jeff. Good job, Amel. And good job, Elliot. Oh, he doesn't stick with the bit. Throws you a bone, Frege. What does 32 Thoughts mean to you, Elliot? I really have a difficult time answering these questions.

I'm not that introspective about this. The one thing I would just answer is I've gotten a lot of direct messages this year over the last couple of years. During the pandemic, there was a lot of isolation and people just said the podcast helped. It gave them something to occupy their mind. So if I would be proud of anything it would be that the one thing that i like about this one and this style of podcast i think i've mentioned this a couple of different times for each is every podcast has the exact

same questions and that is how does this work i think i'm a really naturally curious person and i've been the most curious about hockey my entire life. I will probably never figure it out and that's just fine, but I'll never stop being curious about it. And as long as I'm interested in asking the question, how does this work? Then, you know, this podcast stays relevant to me and interesting to me. This is, you know, probably as far as probably as far as anything that I've ever done

in media, the thing that comes closest to answering the how does this work question. And hopefully that gets conveyed to people every single week. That's from my corner. Emily, want to have a whack at this one? All the audio that never made it to the podcast that I have on my hard drive that'll be blackmail material which will never be released thanks for the email there

from Ethan in New York I write to learn the story oh I love this behind Elliot's show stopping shoes that he wore on Tuesday while on Sportsnet for the Canucks Kids Fun Telethon. Perhaps not quite yellow laces, but worth an investigation nonetheless. Love the podcast.

Great job, Elliot. And Elliot alone. Wow, Ethan. Oh, Ethan. Well, I'm glad your question was selected. Well, first of all, by the way, the Canucks for Kids Telethon, congratulations, over $683,000 were raised. So take a bow.

Well done. And Elliot, of course, you were a big part of that. Well, we should also credit Randeep. Randeep Janda. Yes, Janda was great. Alex Oxenham from the Vancouver Canucks. Also, Greg Shannon, the producer, because it was a huge game. Yeah.

And so he has to produce the game and the telethon. That's a lot of work. Our staff, our crew, and everybody who participated, of course, everyone who donated and sponsored. Now, I have to tell you, Jeff, I thought that was a record. I thought 683,000 was a record. And earlier today, I was sent an article that it's actually not a record it was number two and in 2010 i will credit the author of this david quadrelli from canucks army i was

sent an article today that the record was in 2010 which raised 720,018. So as you know, this is the second time I've done this telethon. The first time, I just wanted to beat Scott Oak, and we crushed him. And the second time, I was very excited by the number. It's a phenomenal number. But knowing that we didn't break the record, we have to go back next year, and we have to break the record. Amen. We have to go back next year and we have to break the record amen we have to get to

that we have to uh pool all of our resources to make sure that happens because this is an outstanding telethon but what about to the question ethan in new york what's up with the kicks so those are vans and the reason i know i normally wouldn't wear running shoes uh but those are vans and about a year or two ago uh Vans came out with a special. That's an autism-themed shoe, and they were $100 shoes, and all the proceeds went towards a charity in the States. So I bought them for that reason, and I wore them for that reason. Plus, they are a very stylish shoe.

They are. Are those the I Love You shoes? I think they are, yes. Those are nice ones. I see them in the dressing room every now and then. I'm like, ooh, those are nice. Okay, from Eldon in London, Ontario. You recently covered compensation for coaches being hired by Team B

after being fired by Team A. I recall hearing that cases like this require permission from Team A in order for Team B to interview the coach. If the coach was fired and team B will be covering much of the salary owed by team A, why is permission required? This is another one that we love questions like this because it seems obvious for people that have followed the game for a long time, but I always don't want to jump to assumptions. So why is permission required, Elliot? It's because they're still under contract.

Yes, and it would be like that in a lot of businesses too. If you want to speak to an employee of another business, not just in sports, you have to ask for permission to speak to them. So that's what that is. Further to the question, from Brandon, what did Joe Sackick and Jared Bednar have to do to get recognition as GM and Coach of the Year? I understand there is the whole quote,

they're expected to contend, but that doesn't happen without the moves of the general manager and the style system implemented by the coach, who has a team playing unbelievable despite many injuries year after year. Sackick and Bednar, that battery, GM and Coach of the Year potential, Fridge? I don't see why not.

I think the toughest thing for Bednar is that he has a team that was expected to do great. So you're only expected to win it when your team isn't very good and becomes good. So I think it's harder for bednar it's stupid but that's kind of the way it goes but sakic i could see absolutely i you know he's had a good year you know who i think is overdue for a gm award um brad true living that would be fair but i think there's somebody who is more owed it than Tree Living.

Who's that? Julian Breezeball. Well, you know what? That's funny because- Funny or funny ha-ha? There's an interesting school of thought that says, there's always been a GM of the year award. It's whoever wins the Stanley Cup.

That general manager is the winner of the general manager of the year award it's whoever wins the stanley cup that general manager is the winner of the general manager of the year do you subscribe to that theory elliot fried yeah i guess like i get that i get the thinking behind like that's the ultimate prize and if you win it then you know and you're the architect of that team then you win the general manager of the year yeah sure you know you can go that way fine i i've got no problem with it guys won back-to-back stanley cups he's made really good moves as part of that i know like eiserman left him a hell of a team and he had some of those guys signed but breeze ball was also a very big part of that team and he's only grown with it since he got there and he's bold brisebois is a guy he had decisions to make after they got wiped out by columbus right yeah and he was one of

the guys who well or the guy because he was the general manager at the time who made the decision to stay with it and there were all kinds of rumors at that draft at vancouver like there was the luchich for neil that everybody denied until it happened yeah and there was all of that kucherov for dry sidle stuff that didn't quiet down at all like there were wild stories at that draft that you're right like there was a whole bunch of what's tampa gonna do here and they didn't and two stanley cups later and they're going for it again but again to the premise of the question i have no problem with a bednar sakic combo not at all okay from will in the united states uh gentlemen newish hockey fan here with a newish hockey fan question i love these i've heard mentioned both from y'all and others about the 1990s being a period of very high scoring

what caused that and what was done to bring scoring levels down to what we have today go caps will must have had a bad thursday because the caps got wiped out. Wiped out bad. Okay. You know, I'll throw some of my theories out there and then you can kind of start yours, Jeff. I think there's a couple of things. Scoring started going down, the clutch and grab era, expansion. I thought expansion was a very big part of it. Clutch and grab, much more defensive hockey.

That's about the time the goalies start to really change too, both in terms of it clutch and grab much more defensive hockey that's about the time the goalies start to really change too both in terms of physical size and equipment size like goalies went from being small and pretty tight to big and either sweaters that had giant armpits that slid down or their equipment got bigger. And I think also too, video scouting and the increased quality of scouting and coaching changed that as well. So you can tell me if you think there's other things, but those are all- I got a couple. Yeah.

So another thing I'll throw in there about the scouting, there was always the belief that you can't teach offense or you can't coach offense. We now know that's not true, but There was always the belief that you can't teach offense or you can't coach offense. We now know that's not true, but there was always that belief. And so coaches tend to focus more on coaching ways to defend as opposed to ways to attack. The other thing too is, I've always looked at the 80s specifically

and just sort of bleeding a little bit into the 90s as one of the golden ages of forwards in the NHL and go look at the list. He would just go look at the list of centers, whether it's Gretzky, whether it's Lemieux, whether it's Stastny, whether it's Howard Shuck, whether it's Eisenman, like go right down. It was a golden age of Marc Messier, like elite level forwards. And what came off of that was a golden age of goaltenders and defensemen.

And there's that era there where it's Dominic Haschuk, who I think was the best goaltender ever. There was Marty Berdour. There was Patrick Waugh. There was Ed Belfour. And then complementing that with defenses that were headlined by Nicholas Lidstrom and Chris Pronger and Scott Niedermeyer and Brian Leach and Sergei Zuboff. I think we transitioned from a golden age of forwards into a golden age of players that

played the defensive side of the puck, namely the goaltenders and the defensemen. But really, the real answer for Will here is it's a combination of all of it. I don't think that there's just one, but i still do think the big one was how players were allowed to clutch and grab and drag guys down yeah it was a fight for every single puck go back and watch games and just call the penalties like it this game has changed so profoundly going back to the 0-4 or 5 lockout but the real i mean the answer really is it's a combination of all of it. Okay, and then a kind of fun one here from Phil and Ajax. Recently

there was a tempest in a teacup about the Coyotes claiming Harry Carey Sateri after the Maple Leafs had signed him. There was some discussion that some teams might have made past waiver claims just to mess with the Leafs. Are there any other ways general managers mess with others in similarly petty ways that

you can comfortably reveal on your podcast? Well, you know, one of the great ones is always, you know, messing around with either the dressing room or the bench for visiting teams. You know, there were teams that when visiting teams would come in, they would paint the dressing room before. Oh yeah. So you'd come in and you'd be sitting there getting dressed and it's amongst paint fumes and you're a little lightheaded when you go out on the ice.

That practice was stopped. There were, and now they're standardized, but once upon a time, you know, shorter benches for the visiting team. So you sit, you sit with your knees bent to burn the quads a little bit more before you jump over the boards. Like there was always like little ways that you could mess with teams. I'll tell you another, Oh God,

go down this hole. You know why pucks are frozen. Like there was an era in the NHL where, you know, generally pucks didn't leave the playing surface at all. This is when, you know, hockey was pretty much in the NHL,

a button down wrist shot game. Pucks didn't leave very often. But when they did, it was up to the home team to supply the puck. And so what teams would do, and honestly, I think it was the Maple Leafs that were notorious for this. If it was the third period and the Maple Leafs, I'll say for sake of argument, because I think it was the Maple Leafs, were up by one goal, what they would do is late in the third period, they would flip the puck out deliberately. This is years and decades before the puck over the glass,

automatic two-minute minor. Flip the puck over the glass, and then it's up to the home team to provide the puck. The coach would always keep a puck in his pocket. Why? Because if you know anything about hockey, a warm puck on cold ice bounces everywhere and it pretty much guarantees that nobody is making a pass

and generally nobody, i.e. the opposite team, is going to score a goal to tie up the game. It was because the puck in the pocket became a tactic now does that rise to the level of you know messing with another team i don't know but that's the reason why they keep pucks in a neutral site i.e the penalty box and they have them frozen does that rise to the level of satisfying this question i don't know but those are the things that come to my mind right away i think those are all fantastic i really like those the puck in the pocket is a great one really well done i i will tell you one that's a little bit different and more up my alley than jeff's

alley i do remember when there was a time when pat quinn was coaching and gming the maple leafs where there were these crazy rumors about ericros being traded to the Maple Leafs. And he admitted later that they did talk to Philadelphia about it, but he seemed that the target was constantly moving. And he kind of had this bewildered look at it when he talked to you about it. And he said, I really think it was because Bob Clark never had any desire to trade Eric Lindros to us and was just trying to both screw around with us and Eric Lindros. And I went and I asked Bob Clark about that.

This has got to be 20 years ago. Actually, you know what? It wouldn't be 20 years ago, but it's close. And I went and asked Bob Clark about it and he smiled and didn't say anything. There you go. That's a good one i like that yeah i just remembered one now now it's all coming back to me paul stewart told me a story that when he was officiating he would always because part of what the officials do when they come on the ice obviously you know you the nets, you make sure the playing surface is clear of debris, you make sure it's safe for all the skaters.

And Paul Stewart told me he used to be able to measure the zones by how many strides it took. He would go from one end of the ice to the other, and that was his way of measuring the zones to make sure that the blue lines were laid properly. And I think he said it washington who had played with the blue lines so the offensive zone was bigger for the capitals in the first and the third period and therefore shorter like a smaller defensive zone for the first and the third period and asked for a

measurement and was proven right wow that's the way you can mess with teams i've never that's right remember i i should i should give him a call and ask him what though i think he said it was washington but there you go there's another one that springs to mind messing with the blue lines for each how about that i think that's i i remember maury wills the great baseball i think he's in the hall of fame i know he I know he had over 100 stolen bases one year. He was suspended for getting caught moving the batter's box to back. Really? Yep.

I love stories like this. I really do for each. Great question, Phil and Ajax. Taking us out today is an East London artist who is redefining what it means to be a folk singer. Taking us out today is an East London artist who is redefining what it means to be a folk singer. Hack Baker creates a sound which he calls G-Folk, a blend of grime and folk combining gritty lyrics and acoustic guitar playing. If you're one of our listeners in the UK, Hack is hitting the road in May. Check him out.

With that, here's Hack Baker off his 2019 record Babylon with Venezuela Rhythm on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Let's have it right We paint our juice to have it tonight Remember the days we really had to fight So hold up your hands, hold them high We got the ends, we got the night We got our friends, we got the vows just like we should Ladies and gentlemen alike Ladies and gentlemen alike We've got our destinies to right What a celebratory time Ladies and gentlemen alike Ladies and gentlemen alike

These are the best days of my life What a celebratory time The young gentlemen are stars Pulling up in lovely cars Running up the tab in bars And so they should The young women are so blind Double working overtime

So their Instagram can shine And I'm with crooks We got memories of times On the dance floor living life We ain't got no shame to hide Nonchalant in truth or lie On a dance floor living life