32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Mark Messier on Winning (and Losing), Costumes & Commercials

Episode Date: December 29, 2021

In their final episode of the year, Jeff and Elliotte chat with six-time Stanley Cup champion Mark Messier on his new book. No One Wins Alone. The guys chat with Mark about his younger days hanging out with the Portland Buckaroos and Connie Madigan, if he had a certain way of winning, the type of player he’d be in today's game, how Wayne Gretzky was always thinking about the team before himself, why Halloween parties were so important to him, what losing taught him, and they talk about some of his more memorable commercials.Outro Music: Moon King - Come Away with MeListen to the entire “Voice of Lovers” LP on SpotifyThis podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Audio Credits: CBC, Frito-Lay, Sportsnet and Tide.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates. 

Meow. pretty much all of it in hockey. And I can't remember, I can't think of anyone whose name is more synonymous with winning than Mark Messier. And he's a fascinating guy. He's played in a lot of really intriguing places, whether it's the Dynasty team with the Oilers and then what he did

with the New York Rangers. But even going back to his time with the WHA, with Indianapolis and the Cincinnati Stingers and growing up in a hockey family, his dad was a hockey player. We get into a conversation about the Portland Buckaroos and the old Western hockey loop. When you hear his name or you see him on TV, whether it's, you know, doing, you know,

hockey analyst studio work or whether it's doing, you know, ads for Tide. What do you think of Mark Messier? When we first started with the deal at Rogers, Messier had an endorsement deal with the company. He was one of the official sponsors and he would come in from time to time to be part of the broadcast. And what I actually noticed was just sitting and listening to him and just break down the game. And he doesn't talk a lot. He would make a quiet observation and I would sit there and I would think, holy smokes, like this is brilliant.

And one of the things I've really learned over the years, Jeff, is how, you know, people who really see the sport, see it at such an elite level. And I like to think I know a lot about hockey, but I just don't see it at the same level that a lot of those people do. And he was definitely one of those guys. And I remember one night we were having a debate about this team or debate about that team. And, you know, he just said, well, this is the way I approach talking about teams during the salary cap era. And I remember listening to him and he said, in the salary cap era, every team is going to have a flaw. You cannot avoid it. And how do you cover for that flaw? How do you best overcome that flaw? And to be honest, I've used that line a lot. And I think about teams a

lot like that. I look at them and I say, now there are some teams that are more perfect than others, but I always look at teams now and I say, okay, what's your flaw? What's the flaw? Or I call it, what's your messier, which is my word for the flaw. And what's your flaw and how are you going to overcome it? And I think a lot like that. So that's more of a personal memory than one that other people could share. What about you, Jeff? What do you think about when you think of Messier? My first thing is still that Oilers dynasty and the,

the murderer's row up front and how Mark Messier was a perfect combination of skill and toughness. I love that Oilers team, but what I loved more was that Islanders team that came before the Oilers. But to this day, I still remember the moment that Mark Messier undressed Dennis Potvin. That became that that for me, that was like, whoa, almost like a changing of the guard moment in a lot of ways for me.

I think of toughness. I think of a guy who was skilled enough to break into your house through the side door, but wanted to knock down the front door instead. And that was the way he chose to play. Like Messier almost seemed to me to be a guy who could play the game any way you wanted it. And one other thing comes to mind to me from Mark Messier.

We talk a lot about team dynamics and caring for the players that you play with, whether it's, you know, while you're on the team or afterwards, you know, Fred Shiro's great line to the Philadelphia Flyers before they want to stay on the cup, you know, win this game today and we'll walk together forever. We will forever be joined. You know what I think of when I think of Marc Messier, Elliot? I think of how he went out of his way to stump for Glenn Anderson in the Hall of Fame. Yeah. Like people go to bat for others all the time, but Marc Messier was unrelenting in his desire

to get Glenn Anderson into the Hockey Hall of Fame. And we think of that Oilers team that Messier was on and captained as well after Wayne Gretzky left for the LA Kings trade. You know, Glenn Anderson gets buried underneath Gretzky and Curry and Coffey and Messier. And you go down the list until you get to glenn anderson glenn anderson on any other team in the nhl is front and center either one or one a but on that squad he was very and i and i always remember how messy at every single turn would go out of his way

to always include his buddy and former line mate glenn anderson He is like the epitome of the great teammate, even when the games were all done. That's what I think of when I hear Marc Messier's name. That's really well done. I do want to say about the book, the book to me was really interesting. I don't know what I ever expect when I get a book from a former player.

I expect a lot of talks about stories and things that happened to him, you know, but I found it very introspective and maybe I shouldn't be so surprised. A lot of conversation about Messi's approach to life and the way he thinks about things. You know, we mentioned one of the things in the interview about his father's philosophy that went to him, but the other thing that we didn't talk about, and I did want to mention it was he had a brief section in there about Jimmy Carson. And for those of you who are unfamiliar with Jimmy Carson,

he was one of the players who was traded to Edmonton for Wayne Gratzky. And Carson, I think a lot of people would have been uncomfortable with being the trivia question in that trade. And it's pretty clear that he was never comfortable in Edmonton for that reason. And I don't want to spoil it, but I think it's really well done in the book about how Messier felt about Carson then and how he looks back at some of the things he said about Carson's comments at the time. And that really struck me in the book. It unfortunately doesn't come up in the interview, but it really stood out for me in the book about how he talked

about it. And it's something I would recommend to people. One of the things that I found striking in the book, and I want to get to this Messier interview here. I just want to make one more point of something that I really enjoyed in the book is I'm always interested in the moment when hockey players feel that it's over, that they come to that realization. And to your point, like he writes quite profoundly about what's going through his head. Now he was a casualty of the 0405 lockouts, the most high profile casualty of the 0405 lockout. And, you know, he writes about it pretty eloquently, you know, the idea of, you know, looking in the mirror your whole life and one day someone different looks back. And that's kind of when you know that this isn't going to happen for you anymore. So there's a lot of things in this one. And Elliot's right. Like there's a whole different side to Marc Messier that you're probably going to get in this book as well. Maybe it's a side of Marc Messier you didn't expect. Because we think of big hulking forward. Or we think of the guy that's able to have a laugh at himself doing various commercials.

Joining a long and rich tradition of NHL hockey players doing very funny hog product commercials. But it's a good book. It's a really interesting read, and to Elliot's point, and I'll amplify it and echo it, you get a different side of Messier in this one as well. In the meantime, here he is, Hall of Famer Mark Messier on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Our guest today, Elliot, is one of the most decorated hockey players ever. 25-year career, six Stanley Cups, two hard trophies, one consummate, 15-time All-Star,

and the only player to have captained two Stanley Cup winners in the Edmonton Oilers and the New York Rangers. Having said all that, everybody knows all of these facts because he's one of the most talked about hockey players ever. He is Marc Messier and he joins us on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Marc, how are you today? Thanks so much for doing this. I'm doing great. Great to be on with you guys. And also I should add the author of No One Wins Alone, a brand new offering about sports and leadership and hockey and some wonderful stories in there as well. And Elliot always groans when I ask hockey geeky history questions, but I want to get one, Mark, I want to get one out of the way early. Because I'm fascinated with the entire Messier family and certainly your father.

and certainly your father. And I want to ask what memories you have of being around the Portland Buckaroos, and do you have any stories of the legendary Connie Madigan? I have vague memories of seeing my dad on the ice, but I got really strong memories of me going with him to practice and skating before their team would come out. I was not in school yet, and so my dad was able to take me to practice with him,

and I would get my skates on and go skate for a half hour before the team got on the ice uh connie madigan what an incredible uh character he was connie was a bit of a uh of a rough guy as you can imagine i think he worked on the box uh yeah just a little as a longshoreman and uh he got mad after one game that he thought he had played a great game, but someone else got the first star. So when they're walking out to the bus in the parking lot, Connie took it upon himself to rough him up a little bit.

So my dad stuck up for the player. They got into a full-fledged fist fight in the parking lot going after a game. My dad was kind of fired up about it all. And Connie, after it was all over, Connie says, that was a good one, eh? kind of fired up about it all. And Connie, after it was all over, Connie says, that was a good one, eh?

So as much as my dad was fired up, Connie Madigan thought it was just what they had to offer. It didn't bother him at all. Okay, Elliot, I'm good. I got my Connie Madigan story, and I'm hockey. You're going to do 10,000 interviews to promote this book,

and I guarantee you, none of them is going to start like this. I have to say that. You know, I remember Connie being in the dressing room, and my dad kind of kept me on the other side of Connie in the dressing room. But I remember that dark beard that he had, and he always looked like a pretty serious guy there. But, you know, we have great memories of all the guys in Portland and Connie as well.

You know, the one thing though, is that those of us of a certain era, we grew up watching those Oilers and we've seen a lot of your life unfold before our eyes. And the thing about No One Wins Alone that I really enjoyed the most was some of the philosophies and some of the things that maybe were private that we didn't know about until I read this book. And there were a few things I read about I thought were really interesting. And one of them was in the epilogue. And you're talking about your final year and your final game as a member of the New York Rangers. And you talk about living by the advice of the

best coach you ever had, and that's your dad and he always told you trust your instincts and never waver in the belief in yourself if you can live up to the expectations of the person who holds you to the highest standard yourself and if you can be honest with that person then all you need to do is tune out the noise and i think especially in the social media generation now you you know, the one thing I always tell myself is you can never cheat the person in the mirror. You know, if that day you gave the best effort or if you cut corners. And I think now in this day and age, Mark, I think advice like that is even more important because we're all out there

and we get so much feedback. And I think it's easy to doubt yourself and it's more important than ever to remember that about yourself. Yeah, a lot to unpack there in that question, but I agree with you. I think that, you know, it's interesting to think sometimes that, you know, we can be honest with ourselves and we know whether we gave an honest effort or not.

It's also super important to have people around you that can really be honest with you as well to say that, no, you can push yourself harder, you can jump higher, you can do more. And having people around you that you trust and to give you that kind of advice. You know, John Wooden, the great coach at UCLA, said the great coaching is being able to give

constructive criticism without resentment. And, you know, how do you do that? Who are the people around you that can talk to you and tell you the truth and you don't take it as a slight against your character? You know, those are important factors for me. But, you know, I think, you know, you have to be able to trust yourself. And the way that you come to trust yourself is by putting in an honest effort and working on your skill set working on your yourself as a person being curious to figure out how you can learn more do more you know these are all skill sets that you know nobody really comes into the game with at a hundred percent as an 18 year old i mean when i came in the league as a pro, first of all, I couldn't believe I could make the NHL. I had a father who played hockey.

I know so much about hockey. I knew so much about what it meant to be a team player, the dressing room protocol because of my father. But there was so much I didn't know that I had to learn along the way. So we've got to be really patient with these young players. And as far as the social media standpoint goes, I don't know what it would be like to play in this era. I think you said it right.

If you're being honest with yourself and if you're doing things that are correctly, you're not trying to hide things, you're not doing things that are wrong, I don't think the social media can be a problem or should be a problem because you can go out and live your life the way you want and people are going to say what they want and choose to say what they want

because they have a platform to do it. But it's like any article that's written on one particular player that's not very flattering. It's only one person's opinion. Millions of people are reading it, but it's maybe only one person's opinion. Now, some people are going to agree with it and others aren't. But if you get caught going down that rabbit hole there, that's a long career and you will not be having any fun.

Yes. You know, I got some great advice about that years ago. Someone told me people will love you and people will hate you. And the one thing you need to remember is none of it has anything to do with you. That's just where they are in their lives. You know, Mark, you occupy a really unique place in hockey. I can't think of one other person in the history of this game whose name and brand is more associated with winning than you. And, you know, early in the book, you mentioned Muhammad Ali being one of your favorite athletes.

And to me, his signature fight is 1974, the Rble in the jungle um the foreman fight and one of the interesting things about that is as much as everyone focuses on you know the rope-a-dope style and who's taking the punishment from foreman and then made the comeback after he hit him a couple of times and foreman started going down ali didn't hit him again because he wanted the knockout to look good. He wanted it to be a beautiful victory. He just let this giant of a man fall in front of him. He didn't want to muddy it up. When you think about winning and all the things that you have won,

mentioned the cups and the individual trophies, did it matter to you how it looked or did you just have, listen, I just have to win? Well, that's a great question. I'd like to say I was as eloquent as Mohamed Ali. It wasn't always that way. What I did learn, though, about winning is that if you can win and leave the opponent's integrity intact, that is a beautiful thing.

And it's not always that easy because some opponents don't give up and it becomes more difficult in order to do that. But, you know, if you are clearly a better team, if you're clearly going to win the series, if you're clearly outpowered, outmanned the other team, you know, I think there's a way to win the series if you're clearly outpowered, outmanned the other team. I think there's a way to win that doesn't strip the other team and their individuals of their integrity and honor. So I think we ran into that in L.A. when we were up in that Series 5,

nothing in the game, and we lost sight of the fact of that. And sure enough, karma comes back many different ways. And it sure enough hit us that game. It was a real good lesson. And if you push people too far, you never know when that switch is going to turn. So when you have them on the ropes and you have them beat, let them go quietly without, you know, rustling the feathers too far. And, you know, there's an old saying, there we were,

a thousand against one, the toughest one I ever saw. You know, and that was a great quote for me to remember by, that it's easy to be a great player, a great team guy, a tough guy, and all that when there's a thousand against one. But it's a little different. And you just got to put your shoe on the other foot. But if you're the one against the thousand, then what it's going to feel like. Watching the game today and the way you played,

and you were the baddest of the bad in the NHL at that time, have you thought about if Marc Messier was born in, say, 1995 and he was playing in the NHL now, do you think you could be Marc Messier? Well, you know, the game was different then, so I would have been a different player. I don you know, I would have been a different player. I don't know if I would have been as effective or not, but my guess is probably would have had to adapt.

Mark, people sometimes say that Wayne Gretzky wouldn't be Wayne Gretzky in this era. I think that's crazy. Like, I think great players adapt. Like, you'd still be Mark Messier, but I wonder if you could be the Mark Messier that we saw in the 80s and 90s. I just wonder how different a player you would be.

Well, I don't think enough people give big players nowadays enough credit for how tough a game it is. I think the game is still tough. I think that the players are, you know, obviously super conditioned. You know, there's a lot of tough guys out there. Is it still a super dangerous game at any turn? You can see the velocity that's out there if someone loses an edge at any given time

or a fight or a body check, just how devastating it is when things get off balance or someone has their head down. So I think the players today have a lot of courage. I think the rules are different. What was acceptable years ago, when I came into the league when I was 14, 15, 16, the Broad Street Bullies were the crown jewel of the National Hockey League.

That's the way games were played. I remember going in warm-ups and full-fledged brawls and warm-ups when I was 15, 16 years old in junior hockey. Coming into the league, if you had to gain the respect of the league around you, every coach tells their players, finish your check. And if you're going to be one of the guys that they're going to finish your check on and nothing's going to happen you're going to spend your career absorbing checks there because they know the coach is telling them to finish their check and they're going to finish your check on you every time

you're going to have a short career so you know i i realized that uh you know in order to survive, that you had to earn the respect. And as time went on, I would never in my career turn my back at any given time on any play and put myself in a vulnerable position because I knew there were a lot of guys lined up trying to get me. So I spent 26 years in a self-defense mode

where I would never put myself in a position for someone to take advantage of me or make a mistake. And I think that's one area in the game now where I think some players just kind of sometimes get a little too comfortable that everybody's going to make the right decision. And they put themselves in harm's way for no reason. And sure enough, injuries happen. You know, Elliot just mentioned Wayne Gretzky there a second ago, and as I was reading your book, Mark, there was one story that I kept coming back to that Kelly Rudy told me when Wayne and Kelly played in L.A. together.

It was after a game. The Kings had laid an egg. I don't know what the final score was. They got beat bad, and Robbie Fatorik went player. Actually, Fatorik would have been a linemate of yours, I believe, in Cincinnati in the WHA. Fatorik went player to know, player, actually, Fatorik would have been a line mate of yours, I believe, in Cincinnati in the WHA. Fatorik went player to player to player saying, you know, you did this, and you

had an awful game, and just went, ripped everybody in the entire room except for Wayne Gretzky. And at the end of all of it, Gretzky stood up and said, that's BS. That's BS. I'm on this team. I had a bad game, too. How come you didn't have a go at me?

Why am I different? If you're going to rip everybody else in this room, Robbie, rip me too. First of all, how much does that story resonate with you, Mark, as a former teammate of Wayne Gretzky? And do you have any other similar Wayne Gretzky type stories? Well, Wayne would have been cringing if he would have been left out of that because nobody felt more or wanted to be more part of the team than Wayne at every step you know he understood the position that he was obviously the kind of player he was but he would never have wanted to be singled out as a guy

that a coach was being lenient on there for fear of retribution from one of the greatest players I mean that's just not the way Wayne was built it's not the way he came in the league and he had so much respect for the inner sanctum of a team and being part of a team. He wanted to be a team guy. He wanted to go through the skates after a long loss where the coach gets you out there and no pucks. He wanted to be a part of that because that's the glue,

that that's the thing that galvanizes teams together is when you do it as a team, you go through experiences as a team throughout the regular season there. And if you're being excluded from that, it doesn't feel good for Wayne himself. And it certainly doesn't do anything to bring him into the circle of the team. So, well, let me say this. I can't remember how old I was when I realized that coaches don't know everything.

And they're not gods. And like everybody else, they're trying to learn and they're not gods and like everybody else they're they're they're trying to learn and they're improving but the one thing that can sustain a coach is if they're honest and they're not a bullshitter i mean i think that's the that's the thing that the players recognize right away if a guy is not being authentic you can't trust them he's got a different agenda than just you know helping the team become its best and players see through that right away and they'll have a short shelf life and you know i always felt that coaches have tried to sit there and hold themselves responsible for motivating the team where you know it wasn't going to last long i think the better way is to inspire

players and they'll motivate themselves and you know the coaches that have really kind of sustained themselves for a long career are those kinds of coaches I remember being in and just to your point about Robbie or any coach you know I'm sure a lot of coaches made that mistake but we had gone on a road trip with Mike Keenan for uh and we didn't play well I think we lost five of the six games and we lost our last game and he was disgusted with us and you know walked down the back of the bus and making sure nobody was drinking a beer then got on the plane and you know walked up and down the aisle there with a look of disgust on his face and he said instead of having a day off coming home on the

Saturday for Sunday off he says that we're gonna get up and we're practice tomorrow morning and that nobody had seen their families for 10 days or whatever it was and everybody had a big groan and an hour into the flight, the trainer comes back and said, Mike wants to see you. So I get up out of my seat and I walked up to the first class part of the plane and all the players are looking through the aisle to see what's going on and what you want to talk about. And I got up there and Mike was sitting in this nice cozy seat with a bottle of red wine open and he said sit down so i sat down beside him and uh and uh and uh so we started talking about anything other than the

game we started talking about the family what's going on this and that and all that and by the end of it 15 20 minutes later uh he said oh by the way, go tell the players that you got the day off tomorrow. So I went back there and I said, hey, boys, we got the day off tomorrow. So then everybody had a big cheer. But what happened in that moment was that Mike gave the power of the captaincy to me. He made the team realize that, you know, I had the ability to go up there and talk to Mike and, and in defense of the team as a captain. And so the team itself, they're galvanized towards me in the leadership position there. And, uh, you know, that's what good coaches do. You know, they, they, it's a collaboration between the team and the leadership and the coaching staff. And, and if that's all not in lockstep, their teams, the teams are going to struggle.

You know, if Glenn Healy listens to this interview, Mark, he's going to call me and he's going to say, he's going to say, Mike Keenan was not the coach of those Rangers. Mark Messier was. He held our team together. And he always says that about you. As you know, there are so many guys who say great things about you. I just, I wonder, listening to your answer there what was the toughest thing a coach ever said to you like

maybe what was the thing that cut you the most that you ever heard from a coach you know i remember a coach saying that i had uh some term analogies thought that I had kind of shied away from a confrontation or I can't remember exactly what it was, but assure him that that wasn't the case in a very stern, subtle way. But like I said, I think coaches do make mistakes. They do say the wrong thing.

Leaders, if I had a nickel for every mistake I made as a leader, I would be a super wealthy man. but the fact is that mistakes happen being able to admit a mistake and being able to apologize and and say I know I did the wrong thing I made the wrong decision we made the wrong move we came up with the wrong game plan only solidifies the relationship to the point where you know nobody's perfect. And I think that when coaches and players get to that place in their relationships,

you know, they have a much better understanding of each other, but they also have a lot more tolerance. So it's not a game of I got you because you made a mistake and, you know, you're not perfect. It's more of, okay, well, let's self-correct here. Let's figure out a way to do something different or a different attack or a different strategy, or, you know, I apologize for insulting you or whatever it is, but that's the ecosystem of a team. Things like this happen all the time, but being able to address it and then, you know, and not shy away from those kinds of confrontations there and be real honest with each other is what really kind of brings teams closer together in, in my opinion.

Let me sort of dovetail a question with that as well. I want to go back to the Rangers of the early nineties. Here's the story that I was told. So 92, you guys have a tremendous season president's trophy. Talk of the NHL Rangers are back 93. Not so great. Last in the Patrick division,

no playoffs for the Rangers. I was told it was mainly you who went to management to convince them not to break up this team. A, how accurate is that? And B, what did you say? I didn't say that. I realized that, well, I guess I would back it up and say, when I came to New York, I came off five Cups in seven years, six Finals in eight years, a 10-year run with some Canada Cups, played a lot of serious hockey, a lot of hockey, and felt very confident in the ideology of what it takes to win from a team

and very confident that I knew what that was. When I got to New York it dawned on me that I wasn't going to be able to use any of that knowledge in terms of speaking about it because the New York Rangers didn't care what happened in Edmonton. They weren't interested in the stories about how Wayne and I

did it or how the team did it or how we played or stories about it. The only thing they cared about was the experiences that we're going to share together. And so that kind of hit me like a sledgehammer because how was I going to, you know, I'm sitting on all, in my opinion, I'm sitting on all this knowledge, but I can't share it. Well, it was real simple. The way I'm going to do it is to share experiences with the New York Rangers and the great young

players that they had. You know, we did have a great season in my first year there. We ran into some injuries the second year, notably Brian Leach going down and some others, and had a tough season, you know, came back the third year and ended up winning the Stanley Cup. But I wasn't the guy that was telling the management or coaching staff anything like that.

And so many stories are out there that I traded a player. I did that. I never did that. I never crossed a line of the trust that I had with my teammates. And if they ever thought that I was going into management and talking about any one individual, I think that would have been a bridge too far to ever recapture. So my whole idea behind that would have been a bridge too far to ever recapture so my whole idea

behind that was to create a culture that the individual himself when he came into the team dictated whether they were the type of player the type of character that could play on a championship team and that's why culture is so important in sports if you create the right culture nobody has to make that decision. The decision is blinking, a red blinking right in front of you if the player has the character, has the work ethic, has the attitude

and all the things that you need from a championship player. And everybody in the room can see it. Not only me, the coaching staff, the ownership, the fans. I mean,

everybody can see it because they're not fitting into the culture that's been created and a known culture that has proven to work. So, you know, I made sure that when I was on a team that my sole focus was whoever was on the team was to make them the best they could be and help them be the best they could be. And ultimately, it came down to whether they were willing to do that or not. All right, Halloween parties. ultimately it came down to whether they were willing to do that or not all right halloween

parties you talk in the book that halloween parties are a very big part of team building what is the best halloween costume you ever saw and who was consistently the halloween costume champion on all your years in the nhL? Oh my goodness. That is a great question. Wow. Wow. Well, it started off pretty innocent by, by the end,

it was full fledged, uh, Hollywood, uh, Broadway, uh, style, uh,

costumes that were, uh, they were right out of the movies, but, uh, Mike Richter took it pretty seriously here. Him and his wife Veronica. But everybody at the end pretty much put a huge effort into it.

You know, we had had prizes and all that. Yeah. Good prizes, you know, trips. And it was well worth it. But more importantly, it became a badge of honor to win the grand prize. But, you know, the Halloween parties, you know, it gets them to talk a lot about celebrating, galvanizing, sharing, you know, those moments together outside the game, outside the rink are just such a huge part of a team coming together and seeing each other in such a different light than just the professional level. And, of course, what it does, too, it brings in the extended family of the team. It brings in the wives and the girlfriends and the families. And, you know, I remember in Edmonton,

it was just such a huge family atmosphere always with our moms and dads and brothers and sisters. And there was such a huge extended part of that. And everybody was welcome. Everybody was in on it. I mean, that energy that was created because of it was so instrumental in the whole atmosphere around, you know, the team at all times.

And of course, then that philosophy extended out into the fans and they felt part of the family. So it was just an incredible experience there to be part of something like that. And, you know, every championship team, I guess in some way or another, uh, you know, gets to that place. And I, I, I think it's hard to have success if you're not doing those kinds of things

to, to create that kind of atmosphere. I agree. Now, let me ask you, what was your best costume or your favorite costume that you did? Well, I, I had many different ones early on in my career as you can imagine 26 of them but uh later on i i just became elvis uh man i had my elvis outfit and i of course i would wear a different scarf or different pair of glasses or different pair of shoes but i was elvis for about the last 12 years there was one funny story when I was leaving, when I was leaving my apartment up in the Upper West Side in New York to go to

the party one day and it was still pretty light out. And I was meeting Brian or somebody somewhere for a couple of drinks before we got to the party. And I was walking down Columbus Avenue in New York and in full fledged Elvis regalia looking for a taxi. And as I was walking down there, a person was walking towards me and as I went by, he goes,

Hey, Beth, how you doing? I kept walking without even blinking that I was Marc Messier, New York Rangers, dressed up in Elvis' costume. And it didn't flinch. And I just recognized that New York is such a crazy, special place. And I was loving it.

Mentioned earlier that no one has a brand in hockey more tightly associated with winning than you, Mark. But I want to ask you about losing. I mean, no one always wins. There are moments of celebration and there are moments where it doesn't go the way that you want it to go what has losing taught you in the NHL well I would say that I prefer learning a lot more when I win than having to lose to learn unfortunately that's not the case that I always said know, if I could win and learn a lot, it would be great, but because I love winning. But I think to answer your question

there, you got to be curious to understand why you lost. What were your weaknesses? Where did you fail? Where were the holes in the team and in the concept in the culture in the attitude uh you know what was it that really uh cost us the game the series uh where we weren't successful and i think you know through that lens if you're you know if you're really honest which obviously you have to be there's a chance to grow as a team and sometimes it's not uh about you know getting different players in it's about you know getting more out of the players that you have because you know the cavalry is not always coming over the hill there with you know another you know wayne gretzky or you know brian leach or you know grant fewer so a lot of times you got to look for the answers

inside the four walls that you're staring at. And that's the place that you get to in a team is that you have to be able to look each other in the eye and you have to ask each other for more and you have to be willing to get into it. You know, playing on the championship team is serious business. I mean, you know, these guys are seeing it now, you know, in Toronto and Edmonton, they're great players. You know, Colorado, they've got great players. But when you're on the precipice of trying to win a championship,

it's serious business there. And nothing but your 100% undivided attention towards that singular task goal is going to be enough. And, you know, there's a lot of pressure on the players. And they need the help, obviously, from the players around them. But when you don't win, when the team does maybe underachieve, you've got to look for answers. And so I think that's what happens and why losing is so important

for teams and individuals and coaches if they're honest with each other and figure out the answers that could be right there in the dressing room that they have, but they've got to figure out the answers that could be right there in the dressing room that they have, but they got to figure out a way to get more. I went down like a video YouTube rabbit hole the other day when we were preparing for this. And I watched so many highlights of yours and there's so many incredible things you did. And this question is probably impossible but i'm going to ask it anyway if you had two minutes to watch one video of yourself what would it be man i tell you that's a great question wow there's a you know i was thinking back the other day

of course you know when you're playing you don't have time to think about anything other than what's in front of you. But writing the book and all that, so many incredible memories. I remember that first game in Chicago. We had played our exhibition. I played in the WHA at 17, went into the draft with Edmonton. We played our exhibition series. I was lucky enough to make the team through exhibition series anyway. Then we, you know, through Western Canada,

didn't really go to any of the NHL rinks. And our first game was in Chicago Stadium. And it was like, wow, welcome to the NHL. They're that Oregon, walking up the steps, throwing Coke and peanuts and pennies and gravel on the steps walking up and it was like just such a it just filled me up with uh thinking about it now it was incredible you know and and and i when i look at those early stages of myself as a player it's like wow was i ever bad

i wouldn't i wouldn't i wouldn't say bad i would's not the right word, but I was so unfinished, so unpolished. You know, thankfully someone saw something in me. I guess Glenn saw something in me, but you know, to keep me around for a while. But, you know, I had to kind of learn at the NHL level as an 18-year-old. I didn't play major junior hockey there. I came in, I played the 50 games of the WHA, but certainly an unfinished product and had to develop my skills at the NHL level there. When I look back at some of the old footage, it's just sometimes hard to believe that that was a player that ended up here in New York towards the end of my career or Vancouver or whatever because I was a completely different player than when I first started and I guess that's uh you know in a way it's a good thing

you know that uh that you gotta not only for me but but for all the players that come in the league that there is a lot of chance for growth if you put the work and effort in and I think I did that I think I wanted that I think I wanted to be a better player I worked at being a better player I had great players around me and practice every day to learn from not to mention number 99 who's you know the best player in the world so for me not to be looking across from him in the dressing room and seeing how he's preparing and watching him in practice and seeing how he you know made a backhand saucer pass or where he went in any situation would have been crazy.

And I did that, and it helped me become a better player. But also the skill level of the team around me forced me to be a better player and evolve. And that's why I think you've just got to be so careful with these young players and put them in a position too early to really be a dominant player at an early age. It's a great league with great players there, and you've got to give these young kids time. Okay, last one here, and it's not a hockey question,

but if there was a Hall of Fame for hockey players in commercials, I can think of three that should be in right away. One, Rocket Richard with the Grecian formula. Today I still leave a touch of grief. The wife likes it. Hey, Richard. Two minutes for looking so good. Two, Lanny McDonald and Brian Glennie with the Swanson Hungryman dinners.

Swanson Hungryman dinners and entrees are enough to turn a wild man into a pussycat. Meow. And three, your Lays commercial, which is still to this day repeated back on a regular basis chip who are we the pardons that guy skips like mess could have been something he ate bet you can't eat just one but i'll tell you what mark your tide commercial with stone cold steve austin is outstanding.

Your comedic timing is perfect. Hello? Hello, Mark Messier. It's Messier. Mark Messier. Mess-C-A. Can you share a story or two of shooting that? Because it's really good, Mark.

I'll be honest with you. I think we're all singing from the same hymn book on that one. Yeah, well, I love the late commercials too, especially the ones with the pylons. I think every Canadian can resonate with the pylons. I love the name of the team. But what I realized, because I've done enough of them, that it's almost like a good coach, but the director is everything.

The director really kind of sets you know, sets the tone, makes you feel comfortable, gives you the, you know, that comedic timing that you're looking for. He really can kind of guide you through, because obviously I'm not a professional actor and I've never studied acting or anything like that. But again, it's the people around you that can put you in a position to make you look good.

But I like doing it, especially when they're kind of lighthearted and fun like that. And when I got the script about a month before I was even supposed to go there, it seemed really funny to me. I never know how it's going to come off. And what a brilliant piece of writing. And it was stone cold and everybody that got in there. So, uh,

I, I enjoyed it. Uh, and like I said, it turned out really good. And, and to your point, I get a lot of compliments on that,

uh, commercial there for, it's great for the same reason that you're, that you're talking about it. Yeah. That's excellent. I do think you and Steve Austin could have won the WWE tag team championship. I have to say,

I'll tell you what, he's a big boy. could have won the WWE Tag Team Championship. I have to say. I'll tell you what, he's a big boy. He would have been a good left-hand defenseman, I'll tell you that. We could have used him against Calgary in those days. I think every team in that division could have as well. You throw the Winnipeg Jets in that mix, the Kings, the Canucks.

Listen, this has been a lot of fun. Mark, best of luck with the book. It's outstanding. No one wins alone. Hall of Famer Mark Messier has been our guest. Thanks so much for doing this, Mark. Thank you, Dave. Good talk to you.

I hope you enjoyed that interview with Mark Messier. Elliot and I certainly did. Elliot, this is our last podcast of the year. Brief pause for us to recharge and refresh and come back with some more energy. And I do think we should probably take some time here to thank everybody for two things, really. Well, a few things, more than just two. A, your interest. B, the downloads. things really uh well a few things more than just two a your interest b the downloads and c perhaps more overwhelmingly certainly to me is how long you spend with this podcast like the the you'll

be able to track like how long people listen to shows and i'm always surprised when amal talks to us about you know the the time spent listening and how deep people go on the podcast you know we try to respect your time as much as possible. We know that you can't listen to every word that we say, but we're always, you know, flattered. And I think a little bit surprised too, when we find, you know, the, the numbers that come in that Ammo shares with us of how long you actually spend with us. And I think that deserves more than a thank you, but that's what we have today.

Elliot. I completely agree with that, Jeff. And I don't want to make any jokes about it. We are incredibly appreciative of the audience and how dedicated all of you are. I just say this, I've written it before and I'll say it again. There's no point in doing this if the audience doesn't like it. And all of you out there, you've proven you enjoy it. And one of the reasons that we try to do some extra stuff and we really work hard at it, and I know Amal works hard at it too,

is because, you know, you guys deserve it. So we just want to say thanks. Absolutely. And a quick reminder before we sign off, musicians, attention. If you want your music featured here, email us at 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca. Taking us out,

a synth pop project from Canadian songwriter and producer Daniel Benjamin, stage name Moon King. Born in Toronto, Daniel was involved in the city's DIY music community, playing in numerous bands and organizing events, including several all-night concerts at a circus rehearsal warehouse on the Toronto Islands. From his 2019 Voice of Lovers album, here's Moon King with Come Away With Me on 32 Thoughts Podcast. Enjoy. We'll see you next time. We can always try to get away. For another three weeks You never felt so free On our reality But come what may The sun is never ending

My past is just a dream But I'm glad I can see From that reality That I'm a slave to you For another three weeks You never felt so free On our reality There's nothing for me now