32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Mask On, Mask Off

Episode Date: November 28, 2022

A wild couple of days! Jeff and Elliotte discuss the Connor Hellebuyck mask situation (00:50), the NHLPA reaching out to the league about fans throwing objects on the ice (8:45), nets coming out of their pegs (10:30), Jakob Chychrun and the Sabres (18;00), which rookies might be going down to their junior team (23:10), what the Oilers are in need of at the moment (25:45) as well as Philadelphia (27:20) and the latest out of Vancouver including the Rachel Doerrie’s Human Rights Complaint against the Canucks (28:15).This podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.GET YOUR 32 THOUGHTS MERCH HEREMusic Outro: Crystal Glass - Void (Full Track)Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call The Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailAudio Credits: Bally Sports Ohio, Bally Sports Southwest, CHED and Sportsnet.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

welcome once again to 32 thoughts the podcast presented by gmc and the new sierra at4x jeff merrick elliot friedman and amel delich elliot you and amel are in montreal uh do you want to say why you're in montreal amel and i are taping a piece on monday for it to air later in the year on hockey night in can. I'm calling it almost surprise. He, he lined this up. He came up with this, but I don't want to give it away until it airs. Okay. Very good.

We look forward to that. Meantime, Elliot, this was anything but a normal week around the NHL. Some very unique things going on. We're going to talk about throwing things on the ice. We're going to talk about goalie pegs. But let's start by talking about Connor Hellebuck. You talked about this Saturday on Hockey Night in Canada, the mask coming off, the goal scored by the Dallas Stars.

Dagan trying to stay with it. Now Haskin in. Stick handles a backhand save made. Rebound loose, kept alive. And here's Robertson. Score! Hellebuck is down, face down. His helmet is off behind the net.

But Robertson and the Stars have tied it with 18.5 seconds to play. Well, Hellebuck got his mask knocked right off his head. He's down sprawled. Halibut got his mask knocked right off his head. He's down sprawled. I think there's little doubt that the Jets are going to challenge this for goalie interference. Halibut was trying to get to the rebound. Jamie trying to get behind the net and track down the puck. Just basically went right straight through the skull of Connor Hellebach.

They didn't blow it dead. The play continued. You're supposed to if it's a continuance of the original shot. The ice is a goal. You know, reigniting the discussion about what to do when a goalie mask comes off. Right now, play continues as long as there is a scoring chance some however say the minute a mask comes off the whistle should blow your thoughts on this one so this for me goes back to the 2017 playoffs and i know it's not a goalie

but zach waransky columbus versus pittsburgh whenierenski blocked a shot and play continued for about 20 seconds and Pittsburgh scored Kessel in the slot oh that one came up on Wierenski Malkin Wierenski is down play allowed to continue he took that in the mouth and he is cut meantime there's the tying goal he's he's got bad. Right below the eye. Zach Wierenski takes that puck high. And play is allowed to continue. They're called for the shovel here as Zach Wierenski is leaking. Bad here.

And I remember watching that and saying, this does not sit right with me. That there is no way a player should be in this much distress and the play can go around them and a goal can count. And I said it. I went on the air. I know I said it. I went on probably the podcast.

I can't remember, but I know I said it in a few places. And I got into some big arguments with some referees about it because they said, that's the rule, and you shouldn't be criticizing us for that. And I said, I think player safety has to be more important. So I was actually watching that game live when it happened, Winnipeg-Dallas, and when Hellebach went down and the puck went in, I was like, that's going to count.

That's going to be a goal. I know it's a goalie, and I know it's not Wierenski who's a skater or defenseman. I know what the NHL rule is. The mask comes off if there's a scoring chance. And I know it says immediate and impending. And I thought that was. To me, just remembering what happened with that Wierenski thing, you go by precedence. To me, I knew that was going to count and I still don't like it.

I really don't like it. And I'm not surprised it turned into a huge controversy when it happened. You know, there's a few things here. I don't know if there's going to be a rule change, Jeff, but I do think there's going to be an immediate conversation about it. And I do think we could see a directive as in blow that play dead because, you know, I know you spoke to some GMs, I spoke to some GMs and other people around and they all just said, it's not an injury we want. And, you know, one of the things I went and I looked back at the shot that went in,

you know, that would have been close to Hellebuck's face if he would have gotten back up to play it. And I don't think that's anything that anyone wants. And also, too, Hellebuck was lying on the ground. It wouldn't have been hard for that shot to be deflected somewhere where he was lying, and nobody would want that either. So I think there's generally an overwhelming feeling of, we don't want our goalies hurt in this way.

So I could see a directive saying, be more aggressive in blowing down that play. Now that said, Jeff, I will tell you this. I did see some pushback in a couple of places that I wanted to mention. Number one, there is an argument that goalies should be forced to wear chin straps then. And one of the things I understand is that there have been conversations over the years that goalies should have to wear them and the goalies

have pushed back. And I did have one person say to me, look, if it's going to be an automatic blown dead situation, then the goalie should have to wear chin straps. I don't know if that can happen. I'm sure goalies will listen to this and say, up yours, Friedman, and whoever told you that. Hang on, just pause for one second, just so all of our listeners understand.

The reason for the chin strap is so they can't shake their mask off quickly to get a stoppage yes yes thank you so like i said i do think some of the reaction will be up yours friedman and whoever told you that but there will be goalies who try to take advantage of it i think there was a game a couple years ago and i have to check who the opponent was but even the jets had a of scoring plays blown dead because they felt the goalie shook his mask off. I haven't seen the highlights, so I have to go take a look at it, but that was brought to my attention. There are people who do think that there will be abuse of this rule. Anyway, I think in the short term, we're going to see a directive on this in the near future, but I thought it was interesting that I had some people reach out to me and say

that I disagree with your take on Saturday night, that there should also be a guarantee that there's either more prevention of goalies being able to remove their masks or someone said to me there should be more freedom to call a penalty for it. A couple of managers that I spoke with both said they would be in favor of blowing it automatically, right away. And I brought up the idea as well with both of them about goaltenders doing it deliberately.

And their response was similar, if not identical, which was along the lines of, we know it'll be abused. The rulebook needs a stiffened spine on that one and make sure you're calling it but we'd rather have a couple of goalies cheat the rule book a little bit by swinging a mask off their face than have a goalie getting hit in the face with a puck that's a trade-off we're willing to make i agree with that i do think there will be a directive be more aggressive making this call i can definitely see that happening i'll'll tell you, there was a game. This was, I think it was a Saturday or Sunday afternoon, right? It was like 2009, 2010 was Ottawa against Atlanta and Andre Pavlik lost his mask, you

know, didn't abandon the crease and stood in front of an Alex Kovalev shot, which was kind of high if I remember it correctly as well. And I just remember being like horrified and frightened, like this thing is inches away from catching him in the face. So whenever, yeah, whenever I see it, I always flash back to that Pavlik Kovalev situation. One, there's guts, brains, you know, do you have more of one or less of the other? That's a real gutsy move by Pavlik in that situation. I don't want goaltenders to have to make that decision. You know what? Because you're right.

There would be some who would say, I'm just throwing my face in front of this to make the save. Yes. Players have done it. I have to admit, that's what I would probably do. But I've never been accused of being smart. Okay. Speaking of not being smart,

throwing things on the ice happened in a couple of different places in the Toronto, New Jersey Devils game, and also in the Colorado Vancouver Canucks game as well. I put this out on Saturday as well. The players association will meet with the, the NHL, or we'll at least reach out to the NHL this week to try to figure out a way to mitigate the danger should something like this

arise again. I think there's a concern about the quality of the ice that the players have to play on after it gets pelted with sodas and beer and chicken fingers. Chicken fingers do contain nuclear material in some of these buildings, so I could see it hurting the ice.

And there's concern about, obviously, players getting injured. So I think their main concern, or one of their main concerns is probably, you know, what do you do with the people that do this? And what's the nature of the security around an event like that? Anyway, nothing that we like to see.

Encourage you only to throw hats or teddy bears at the appropriate time during hockey games. But do you have a thought on another bizarre couple of scenes this week well we did talk at length about this on friday about whether or not the league would say okay this was a one-off and we're not letting this happen again as of the weekend i don't think a memo had gone out on that but i do know that the league was going to talk to its security people about what they were going to do in terms of what happened in that game and also where they're going forward.

And I do think this is going to potentially be something that gets discussed at the board of governors in December. That's the next big meeting, the board of governors, a second week of December. And I heard it was possible that this comes up there about we have to gain control of our buildings.

Pegs in the posts. Yeah. The marsh pegs that we've been living with now for how long has it been, Elliot? 35, 40 years now in the NHL. Kelly talked about this on Hockey Night on Saturday as well. Other goaltenders have wondered about

peg technology and can it be improved can it be changed and this is now entered more of a hockey mainstream conversation because of trying to make police net minder matt murray yeah so this got a lot of attention and to be honest i think one of them it actually might have been austin matthew stick that kind of knocked the net off i looked i think it's the second one i kind of looked at it a bit more so someone said to me take murray off the hook for one of them because it may have been matthews accidentally who did it but there were five times in that game i think it was three by murray and two by the wild that the net came off the magnets in that game in in minnesota first of all i wanted wanted to say, those Minnesota uniforms, they are so good.

I thought I was watching the 28-point Maple Leafs battle the 16-point North Stars in the old Norris division in the 80s. It brought back such great memories. It's when you only needed 60 points to make the playoffs in the old Norris division, Elliot.

You needed 1,000 points in every other division, but three points made the playoffs in the Norrisris division. I made a thousand points in every other division, but three points made the playoffs in the Norris. It's great. But that was a game where the net came off five times. Now I had an interesting talk about this with a couple of GMs. Just ask them what they thought.

You know, first of all, there's no question that Matt Murray is about to get watched a lot more closely. This can't happen because it's Toronto and because everybody was talking about it. Matt Murray is going to be under scrutiny and I don't think anybody is going to be surprised if he gets a penalty for this at some point. The more you talk, the more you hear interesting things. And one of the things I heard was that there are some buildings that have reputations where the net might go off more often than in some other buildings. And I don't know if it's an ice quality thing or a peg quality

thing. And one of the things I like to be very careful of is there's a lot of great people who work at these buildings. And I don't want to say that their work is substandard because I brought this to someone's attention and they actually got really upset at me and they said, don't malign people who don't deserve to be maligned. And I do take that to heart. All I'll say is this, I did have a couple of teams tell me that there are some buildings where they think the nets get off easier than others simply because of building conditions or ice quality or whatever it is. And I'll tell you some of the ranks that people gave me. And then the teams can reach out and yell at me.

I, Minnesota was one, New Jersey was one, Tampa Bay was one and Nashville was one. Minnesota was one, New Jersey was one, Tampa Bay was one, and Nashville was one. Those were some of the buildings where a couple teams told me that nets tend to come off more than others. And again, I don't want to impugn the ice crews or the people who work hard there. I think this might be more of an environment question as opposed to a human question. Like, for example, one team told me that they're not sure if Murray's and he hasn't played a ton of games yet. They don't know if he's actually knocked the net off in Toronto at all this year, but he did a couple of times in New Jersey and he obviously did three times in Minnesota. Look, the goalies are bigger than ever. You've talked about that. Do I think some of these guys

are sneakily good cheaters? Yes, I definitely think that. There's no question if you're not cheating, you're not trying, as the old saying goes, Jeff. But I did have a couple of GMs say that some buildings tend to be a bit looser than others when it comes to the nets. Now watch, of course, Murray's next game in Toronto, the net will go off seven times, and I'll have people texting me and calling me an idiot.

But I do think they will be watching him closely, and I know this was on the radar at the past GM meeting about the net seems to be going off more. This is a thing, and I wouldn't be surprised if Murray got called for a penalty on it. Remember that goal by Giordano in Toronto on the Saturday night against Vancouver. Yes. You know, if the net's off the mooring, but the puck goes in, it's still a goal.

That Giordano goal was a message, I think too. Like, hey, these are going to count. And you know, the other thing we should let people know is there was a really interesting review in the second period of Toronto-Pittsburgh on Saturday. Eric Shulgren made a save. The puck was still loose. Pittsburgh shoved it in, but the referee had blown the whistle, and they reviewed it.

You know, the other thing, too, is in that situation, if it's a continuous shot, it can be a goal. But because they knocked it in after the referee blew the whistle, that's no goal. So I think that's one thing to remind people is just because the net's off doesn't mean a team can't score. I think this is going to become a thing the more nets get knocked off this season. You know, it's interesting too, because I had a conversation with someone Saturday afternoon

about this. I was very well acquainted with, with all the issues involved. And this person pointed out a couple of different things here to me. And I said, like, you're going to get more of this. Like goalies are, are bigger and stronger now that they've ever been. And we've been, you know, using these marsh pegs now for 30 odd years. Like, I wonder if it's time for a new type of technology. And this person fired back at me and said, you know, last time I checked Andre Vasilevsky was a really big goaltender. He's not knocking the pegs off. Now there are a lot of goaltenders that are learning new techniques. Like as far as Matt Murray goes, he's now being trained by Curtis Sanford.

You know, he's kind of going through, as someone described to me, kind of going through what Thatcher Demko went through as well, because it's the same goalie group from Vancouver. Until goaltenders get that right touch or that right feel around the posts and how much they can push off without knocking the net off, you're going to have this. And it really points at something that's certainly a frustration for me. And I hate even bringing it up because I don't have a solution. And that is, I don't know what the solution is for this.

Like we don't want to go back to, you know, to the way it used to be before the marsh pegs that made it easier for the net to dislodge on collisions. But we also don't want goaltenders dislodging the nets. There has to be some type of middle ground on this one. There has to be some type of solution that can, I don't know, you're never going to please everybody, but can please more people than not.

I just don't know what it is, Elliot. I just have no clue what it is. It's going to be penalties. I just don't know that you're going to get the desired result because goalies now, like the way they slam around the crease, the way they slam between posts, like they need something to push off of.

These guys are big and strong. You know what's going to happen, Jeff? We're going to be in game seven overtime of the Stanley Cup final and the puck's going to go in when the net gets pushed off by a goalie with no mask on. Well, it was funny because that's always one of my litmus tests for, you know, do we like this

goal? And when you were talking about Connor Hellebuck earlier in that situation where Dallas scored, the internal conversation I have right away about how I feel about it is always, how would I feel if this were a Stanley Cup winning goal? I think about that all the time. What are the effects if this is a Stanley Cup winning goal? My first filter of how I feel about something, am I cool if this is a Stanley Cup winning goal? And then proceed from there. Okay. A couple of more things here.

Jacob Chikrin, Buffalo News picked this one up after our report last night on, you know, maybe looking at the Buffalo Sabres and considering them a dark horse candidate. Now that Chikrin is healthy and playing again, and this is, you know, the audition to the rest of the league that, you know, this player is healthy. And we've been over the trade speculation and talk countless times. As soon as we went off the air yesterday, as soon as our segment was done, I got a DM from someone saying, hey, don't forget the Chikrins and the Pagoulas are friends going back to their Florida days. Chikrin actually went to school with the Pagoulas kids, Kelly and Matthew. So I don't know

that that affects a deal, but it was just interesting that right away someone pointed that out yes this makes sense for a couple of reasons one they really ride their young defenseman hard and these guys are you don't need me to tell you how good Rasmus Dallin and Mattia Samuelson and Owen Power are they're real good but they're also really young and the idea of bringing in someone who's more veteran is, I would imagine, tempting for Kevin Adams. They do have the assets that the Arizona Coyotes would be looking at and looking for. It sounds still like they want the old San Jose, Minnesota Brent Burns deal. That's what they're looking for in this one.

We'll see where it goes. Elliot, we'll see where this one goes. But I know more people now are certainly talking about the Buffalo Sabres as perhaps being a candidate for his services. First of all, I think that was a really interesting find by you. That's number one. Number two, it makes sense to me if there's one complaint I think people have about the Sabres. Actually, I don't even know if I would say it's a complaint, but if there's one thing that teams play against the Sabres have noticed, it's that they get pushed around a little bit.

They're a little small. First of all, nobody's pushing around. Tage Thompson is a killer and nobody's pushing around Kyle. Because he's a killer. Yeah. But I do feel that teams feel that they can generally push them around and their defense has taken a lot of

punishment like i was talking to someone today sunday and they said it makes a lot of sense what you said because rasmus delene takes a lot of punishment and you know power's a big guy but he's young he's young and they could see someone there like Chikorin, just a bigger, stronger guy who can dish it out a little bit more, that can ease the punishment that a lot of these other guys take. You know, Buffalo can make this deal. As you said, it was interesting. The reaction was very interesting based on that people think that it would ease the burden on some of their other defensemen and i think there's a recognition from buffalo that it's something that they will need to do at some point like they did labuskin this year which is a good fit for them but i also

wonder if they're kind of thinking we could always do more. And Chikrin's locked in for a couple of years too. You have a contract here. You know, I still think Columbus is potentially around this. Islanders. Islanders have been around this. You know, the Kings, the Kings are an interesting one.

I do think they are looking for a left shot D. I just don't know if they feel the pressure to do it right now. Everybody knows the Kings have a lot of people on the right side. But one of the things the Kings have kind of indicated is they can wait a little bit of time if they want to because the clock really starts next year with making sure that there's a spot for Jordan Spence. I don't know if they feel that they have to do it now or yet,

but I think at some point in time they're going to. That's kind of the interesting group there. As an aside, when you look at Jacob Trickman and you look at what Arizona's program is and what they want, I think you look to teams that have a really rich and deep prospect group buffalo does and so do the los angeles kings like that one makes a ton of sense for what arizona would want from la yeah la can certainly do it like you know edmonton i think at times edmonton's kind of taking a look at it but i don't ever get the sense they've really been in it. I'm not convinced that Toronto's there either. There's always going to be teams that are missing, but I'm with you.

Islanders, Buffalo, LA, Columbus. I think Ottawa would look at it, but there hasn't been a match, and I'm not convinced there's a match. The thing I've heard about Ottawa is they are just determined not to make a bad trade, one that they regret. I do think there's a market for them. I'm very curious to see who pulls the trigger. I think Chikrin would like for it to happen,

and I think Arizona would like for it to happen. Absolutely. Speaking of Los Angeles Kings defensemen, I was running down a list on Saturday, and I'll go over a couple of names here in a couple of seconds, but Brant Clark, any idea what's happening there? You think Johnson's not going? Yeah, I can't see Wyatt Johnson going.

He's playing 15 minutes a night. He's on second unit power play. He's going to score anywhere between 15 and 20 goals this season. He earned that spot, man. He earned that job. He is an NHler i don't think that there's i mean barring you know something catastrophic happening with the dallas stars which we don't expect i can't see wyatt johnson going and you think right's going right i don't know 100 like put it this way i'm pretty much certain that dylan gunther is going yes you

mentioned that from the arizona coyotes i I still think that Shane Wright ends up going, but we don't have a hundred percent on that. By the way, speaking of right real quick, do you see scored again? Yes. And you see where the shot was from distance. I reported on Saturday,

like the NHL CHL deal has been renewed seven more seasons. The NHL does have the ability to open it up. If they want to do something about the mandatory return policy. That's the one that keeps 18 and 19 year olds out of the American hockey league. But he looks really good with Coachella Valley right now.

Yes, he does. Yes, he really does. Anyway, back to Brent Clark. So on Brent Clark, the story I've heard on Brent Clark is that there will be a conversation between Clark, the Kings, and Hockey Canada this week. And my sense is the Kings would like him to go. But, you know, I remember a few years ago when Curtis Lazar was in Ottawa, Hockey Canada wanted Lazar and Brian Murray. He set up a phone call and he said, I want to know what the role is and I want to know that

if I send him there, he's going to be used. And I think the Kings would like him to go, but I think everybody just wants to know what the role is going to be. But I think that conversation is going to happen this week. Speaking of this week, decision time. Thursday, players need to be signed or they cannot play in the league this season, Elliot. Yes. Well, Alex Formanton is the one guy that this affects,

of the Ottawa Sanders. If he's not signed by 5 p.m. Eastern time on Thursday, he can't play. I don't know what's going to happen here. Don't think we're going to get any clarity on what is or is not the case with the 2018 World Junior Team by Thursday. So I'm going to mention it because it's a story this week, but I don't want to guess. I don't want to go anywhere I don't know,

and there's a lot we don't know here. This is something we're going to watch out for, but we're not expecting any clarity into the investigations by Thursday. Big win for the Oilers Saturday against the Rangers. Comeback win, you know, the Dreisaitl clip with, you know, Jacob Trubow went all over the place. I like angry Dreisaitl.

Elliot, I don't know about you, but I like cranky, angry Leon Dreisaitl. And you reported what they're looking for on Saturday. First of all, I wanted to mention on the winning goal, you watch Kreider. Kreider makes a good defensive play, and Dreisaitl just is so strong on a stick, it doesn't matter. Down low to McDavid.

He'll take it towards the net, over to the right. He's going to walk out to Nugent Hopkins. In front, Dreisaitl scores! Leon Dreisaitl tapped it home power play goal and the Oilers are up 4-3 they crossed them up didn't they what a play

by Nugent Hopkins Dreisaitl swoops in from the right side cuts to Lynette Arnage finds them back door I think Edmonton is looking for a forward who's got some edge to them. There's definitely a feeling that their depth has been struggling, that they're a little easier to play against since Evander Kane was injured. And I think they're looking for someone like that. They don't

have a lot of cap room at all. So it's a low salary. it's probably in the million range around there but there's a few players around the league who kind of fit that guys who play with a bit of an edge guys who play with a bit of a bite and i think they're looking to see if there's anything they can do there they're out there looking at those names i'm also curious to see about philadelphia here it's another 10 game losing streak elliot it's not good yeah 10 game losing streak i've heard rumors that they have artem anisimov like he was supposed to join them in training camp this year he got hurt he's now in the american hockey league and i've heard rumors that they want to sign him but they can't they're maxed out 50 contracts they have 50 contracts so i'm wondering if they try to do something just to get Anisimov in their lineup.

I know the Philly fans are upset. It's been a lot of losing. To me, the best thing for them is they get a high pick. I know people don't like to hear that, but I know that John Tortorella cannot stand to lose in, as he says, a young and dumb league. But the best thing for Philly is a high pick. It's just a really hard sell, and I understand

it for those fans. Mm-hmm. All right, Jeff, as we wrap up this podcast, we've got some fun stuff to talk about and some not-so-fun stuff to talk about. Mm-hmm. First, I should mention the Winnipeg Jets. Tuesday night, their game against Colorado.

Dallas has played more. As we sit here on Sunday night, Dallas has played twice more than the Jets and three times more than the Avalanche. So that Winnipeg-Colorado game on Tuesday night has huge implications. And also there's two stories about the Vancouver Canucks we should discuss. Number one, incredibly, unbelievably, they are one point out of the playoffs.

Bruce Boudreau, a coach who was basically given up on and they were searching for a successor, has them right there. Pedersen is on a tear. Miller and Horvat look dynamite together. Kuzmenko is on a run. Kuzmenko's got a breakaway in a load. He scores! Andre Kuzmenko scores the first overtime winner

of his NHL career, and the Canucks have won their third in a row for the first time this season. They beat the Sharks 4-3 on the goal by Andre Kuzmenko. And he's getting the bear hug from his teammates right now. I just like that OT winner. Demko gets a huge victory that he needed. Spencer Martin has held the door for them. You know, Eric Carlson,

he's I think third in the league in scoring and he's tied for first in even strength points with Sidney Crosby. Bad change in overtime, but incredible win for the Canucks. And we'll get to the other story in a second, but I have to say, I think it's unbelievable

that we could be talking about Vancouver in a playoff battle. It's been impressive. And you're right about Bruce Boudreaux. I'm really happy for him after everything that he's been through to start this season. This has been an impressive string of games and an impressive string of wins. Sunday night, San Jose Sharks.

Saturday night, Vegas Golden Knights. That is a tough out. And then earlier on this week, the Vancouver Canucks knock off the Colorado Avalanche. Last week, they had a two-for-three week taking care of Los Angeles and Buffalo as well. This has been impressive,

Freach. You got to say it, man. It's been real impressive. You talk about games that are big coming up this week.uesday against washington's huge for vancouver it's almost like major league that they just got quit on and they just keep winning it's really something jeff it's i'm amazed that they're even that we're even talking about them in the playoff race now you reported on friday that there was a complaint filed to the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal by Rachel Dorey. She provided a link on Sunday night to her complaint, and the Canucks sent statements on behalf of themselves and their assistant general manager, Emily Castonguay. and their assistant general manager, Emily Castonguay.

Since you were the one who first reported this, how would you characterize both Dory's complaint and the responses from the Canucks? Dory's complaint is tough to read. Very tough. It's tough to hear anybody going through something like Dory alleges she went through. The responses by both the Vancouver Canucks organization and Emily Castonguay, I think, are what we expected them to be.

Strong denials from both the Vancouver Canucks and from Emily Castonguay. One of my concerns here, Elliot, is that this thing doesn't get nasty and doesn't get ugly although it seems with the events of Sunday evening you hope it's not but you wonder if it's headed that direction in the last year NHL teams have tried to open the door to people who were excluded before. And I'll say this. I think on Sunday night, it was tough, I think, for some women in hockey to see this.

Because this is a situation where I think a lot of people really wished for great things from both Emily Castonguay and Rachel Dorey. And I think it was very hard for them to read both Rachel's complaint with the tribunal and Emily's response. And I just wanted to say, I think of a lot of those individuals. I think this was very hard for them to read. And as you kind of said there, this story isn't over. I'm not going to guess on where we're going, but this story isn't over.

I just know for a lot of people who found a new door open to them in the last year, it was hard for them to read that. And for everyone involved, both in the complaint and hoping to break barriers in

hockey, we think of all those people tonight. Okay, Elia, taking us out is a German artist who we featured on this podcast before. Marvin Andrea, stage name Crystal Glass, is back with a new single, and it's a change of pace for the indie musician. With his latest single, here's Crystal Glass with Void. 32 Thoughts to Podcast. yn

When I go outside, there is no end. One foot under the other, my mind feels like it's melting. Beings against the day