32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Nigel Kirwan

Episode Date: December 21, 2022

He is the longest-serving employee of the Tampa Bay Lightning. Nigel Kirwan currently serves as the video coach of the Bolts and his journey to the NHL was different than most. He joins Jeff and Elliotte to talk about his unique career path, and friendships he’s made along the way, tells some untold stories from the team plane, goes into detail about the 2019 Columbus series, compares 2004 vs 2020/2021 Stanley Cup teams, talks about some fun advertising campaigns like “Seeing Stamkos", Rick Dudley’s feng shui phase and what it’s like to work for Steve Yzerman.GET YOUR 32 THOUGHTS MERCH HEREEmail the podcast at [e-mail] or call The Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailThis podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Music Outro: Brasstronauts - HawkFind the full track hereAudio Credits: ABC, Fox Sports and Sportsnet.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

uh nigel kirwin five four three two one zero ten nine eight seven six five four three two one i will not hold it against nigel that he went to western that's a lot wealth you work at mcdonald's welcome once again to a special interview edition of 32 Thoughts to Podcast presented by GMC and the new Sierra AT4X. Today you're going to meet Nigel Kerwin. He's the longest standing employee of the Tampa Bay Lightning. He is their video coach in Elliott. He's seen it all having joined the organization three weeks before the 1992 expansion draft. Now spot quiz, first player Tampa took in the expansion draft, exactly, Elliot. It was Wendell Young.

Brian Bradley went in that draft as well. And a little bit of Merrick trivia for you. Keith Osborne was selected in that one. Why is Keith Osborne Merrick trivia? He's the only player I played hockey with that made it to the NHL. Drafted by St. Louis, traded to Toronto for Darren Veach, picked up by Tampa in the NHL. Drafted by St. Louis, traded to Toronto for Darren Veach,

picked up by Tampa in the expansion draft. Anyway, your thoughts on Nigel before we hear from him. Now, this is a long-winded way of you introducing our guest, is it not? As usual, yeah. You should be used to that by now. Suck up all the oxygen on the podcast these days. So, Nigel Kerwin is the longest serving current Lightning employee.

Correct. He's been there 30 years. As he says in the interview, he got there just before the expansion draft you referenced, and he has seen it all. You know, we've done a lot of Lightning interviews over the years. Yeah.

And we wanted to do something a little different. They're very accommodating. You know, you ask them if you can get somebody and they go out of their way to try and make it happen that's true and so we wanted somebody a little different somebody who knew good stories about the team and you may not know who Nigel is before this interview but I guarantee everybody one thing Jeff you're going to remember him after this interview the stories are great and my only disappointment is that there were more there may have to be a part two because after we did the interview one former lightning player came forward and said hey

i heard you were doing this here's a couple of stories and we'd already done the interview but you know what i did a journalism okay i did a journalism and asked nigel the stories you want to first of all talk about what player x told you yes so player x said there were a couple of things there number one apparently Nigel brags that he used to crush Martin San Luis in pregame table tennis. And B, and this one I find really funny. He is deathly afraid of moths.

M-O-T-H-S. Moths. So as I said, I did a journalism and texted him and asked both those questions. And the response is to the table tennis question. He says he probably won about 55% of the time. He said that part of his pregame ritual, Marty's was, or his game day ritual was playing table tennis against Nigel.

So that's interesting. And to the question about moths, he said, absolutely true. When he was four or five years old, he was running around and a giant moth flew into his mouth. It got trapped and died in there. And ever since then, he's been traumatized and is horribly afraid of moths. So there you go, Elliot. I did a journalism for the podcast today. I just want to say that's great stuff.

I just want to say he's a great talker. He told great stories. And we really enjoyed this interview. And we hope that you will, too. I suspect you will. Enjoy. Here's Nigel. Listen to 32 Thoughts, the podcast, ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. Elliot, if you've ever wondered who the most dangerous man in the Tampa Bay Lightning organization is, you are sitting across from him. He is Nigel Kerwin.

He is a video coach for the Tampa Bay Lightning and is a pretty close to day one-er. So you know all the stories where all the bodies are buried. You are the most dangerous man in the Tampa Bay Lightning organization, Nigel. Theoretically, I have a good book I could write, but a lot of things I probably can't reveal, but yes. You know, Tampa is such a fascinating organization. There's so many different directions we can go to, but when you think back to the beginnings of you with the Tampa Bay Lightning, like putting the team together, the expansion draft, Phil Esposito, all of it, like what are the memories that come back right away for you? Well, it wasn't a direction I was planning on going. I didn't see myself working hockey.

I was getting ready to do a career I thought either in financial advising or thinking about the FBI. I had a criminology finance background. And so I was kind of heading in that direction. thinking about the FBI. I had a criminology finance background. And so I was kind of heading in that direction. But while I was in, I'd gone back to school in the University of Tampa. And while I was doing that, I got a job with the Buccaneers.

And that kind of led me to the lightning. So it was something that kind of fell in my lap kind of unexpectedly. So when I think about it, I was really meeting, the interview with Phil Esposito was absurd. Not absurd, but it was a little nuts. It was Phil. It was Phil. It was Phil.

And it wasn't what I expected it to be. So tell us, what did he ask you? What did he say to you? So I'm in the process of getting hired. The guy who, some of the Buccaneers recommended me to a friend of his who got hired as a sales director. That guy wanted to hire me. I was in Tampa.

I had a little bit of a hockey background. So now I got to this point where I'd met the vice president of marketing and sales, a guy named Steve Donner. And I went in to interview with him and meet with him. And I thought that was going to be the final interview before they told me I was going to get the job or not. And so I'm sitting with these two gentlemen in an office. And they're asking all the questions. And he goes, OK, well, you got one more step here. We got to take you to meet the big boss.

And I'm like, who's that? I'm not's going to be Phil Esposito. I'm a 20-year-old kid who's grew up playing hockey in Canada. And I'm not thinking I'm meeting with Phil Esposito. It's not that important a position. He goes, you got to meet the Phil. And I'm like, Esposito? And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, oh, no. So now I start sweating. Now I'm like, oh, I wasn't ready for this. Because in my mind, this is the legend of the game. So I walked down to his office. And I'm panicked at this point. But I'm like, OK, you got this. of the game. So I walked down to his office and I'm panicked at this point, but I'm like, okay, you got this, you got this. And I sit down with Phil in retrospect, I should have been panicked, but, uh, and sit down opposite of Phil.

He goes, ah, so where are you from? I'm said, I'm from Winnipeg, Canada. He goes, Winnipeg, is the Palomino still there? And he starts talking about this bar in the Palomino. So I said, yeah, yeah. I'm pretty sure the Palomino is still there. You know, I've been out of Winnipeg for a few years, but so he started talking about the Palomino's still there. I've been out of Winnipeg for a few years. So he started talking about the Palomino. He started telling stories about the Palomino and just stories on the road and Winnipeg and a lot of different things.

And this went on for 20 minutes. He asked me a bunch of questions about Winnipeg and playing hockey and told me more stories about Cashman and the Russia series. And he just told me story after story after story for about 20 minutes. I laughed and kind of giggled, contributed here and there. And afterwards, he went like, all right story after story for about 20 minutes. I laughed. I kind of giggled, contributed here and there. And afterwards, he went like, all right, that's good. I think I like him.

I like him. And so the other two tapped me on the shoulder. It was like seeing the godfather. Like, OK, get him out of here now. So they pulled me out. And we're walking away. And I'm like, was that it? Was that the interview?

He didn't really ask me any questions. He goes, no, no, that's it. He just told me war stories. This is all he did for 20 minutes. And so I realized now that I know Phil, I've been around him forever. It's par for the course with him. But for a 20-year-old kid thinking he was stepping into a job, I thought it was going to be a little more serious of an interview than it actually was. Hey, you dropped something a second ago that we can't just leave out there. Uh-oh.

From wanting to work with the FBI to going to hockey. That's not, that's not the traditional story. No finance and criminology were my majors. And I didn't know which university I finished university, Tampa's went to university, Western Ontario. Then are you a Western guy? Yeah. You're Western.

I didn't know that. I never graduated, but I went Western guy. Oh yeah. Only the best. Only the best. That's right. I may, I may leave now. Leave you two purples together.

Go Stangs. So I was thinking about applying the FBI, but really probably going to go financial management or something along those lines. Again, I was working for the Buccaneers, not as a career thing. I had an opportunity to be a ball boy for one game years ago. No way.

And I said yes. I mean, who's not going to do it? I was 20 or something years old. Who's not going to be at a sideline of an NFL football game? And one turned into two, turned into four, six, eight. And then I ended up doing that for about three

football seasons. And then during that time, Phil was trying to get the franchise going. But that was kind of in the background, not really paying too much attention to it. And by the time I graduated, it was kind of up and running. It was probably about a month or two away from the expansion draft. And that's when somebody, the Bucks, connected me to somebody who got hired at the Lightning.

And that's how the interview process started. And I got hired. And then I was just like, I kind of forgot about where I was going and just did that. Now, you were a pretty good hockey player, right? No, I was not a very good hockey player. I actually heard you were a pretty good hockey player, right? No, I was not a very good hockey player. I actually heard you were a pretty good player. Then someone lied to you because I was not. I thought I was, but looking back on it, no.

Hang on, hang on. If you were doing video on you as a player, what would your report say? Fourth line checker, minimal skill, a little bit of speed, can't finish. That'd be probably my – Harsh, tough crowd. Yeah, yeah.

But you separated from your family for a while to pursue hockey, right? Well, kind of, yes. What happened was we were – my dad was a doctor, and he did some medical work in Winnipeg, did his residency in Winnipeg. And then he wanted to practice in the States. He got a job in North Dakota. And that had to do with government licensing and some laws that were going in to kind of reduce the flow of foreign doctors coming at the time. So he kind of moved in on the deadline.

So he didn't have to spend an extra two years passing all these other courses and exams and stuff. But we went to a really rural place in North Dakota. And my dad, who was pretty strict about education, said, you know, my son can't go to school. My son's not going to go to school here. Right? So he knew the headmaster of a boarding school back in Winnipeg. So I went back to boarding school when I was

old enough, which was nine years old. I went to a place in Winnipeg called St. John's Ravenscourt. So I don't think the intention was to play hockey. Okay. But it was more of an educational thing. And so I went back to Winnipeg and ended up

staying there. In the meantime, that move to North Dakota was always temporary. And we used to take these giant long vacations during the summer. We'd drive around the country every summer for six weeks. I now know it was because they were trying to figure out where they wanted to live. They eventually settled on Tampa. So we moved to Tampa when I'm going to high school. But this is hard to believe, but I chose, I didn't want to go to Tampa.

I did not want to leave Winnipeg. And so I chose Winnipeg over Tampa and they reluctantly let me stay in boarding school in Winnipeg. By that point, I, yes, I wanted to play hockey. So I didn't, and Tampa didn't really offer the time. So I stayed in Winnipeg. They kind of grew up in Tampa. Well, the next time you go, the Lightning go and play the Jets, you're going to get a standing ovation there because you're the one guy

who ever made that choice. Actually, I did see Stephen Stamkos get a standing ovation in Winnipeg once. When he scored his 60th goal, it was in Winnipeg on the road. I remember because Guy Boucher was coaching and I was on the bench. The place was booing him incessantly.

Every time he touched the puck, they were just giving it to him. And then he scored with with minutes left in the game to get a 60th. A little lull, and then they all stood up and gave him a big standing ovation. Pulls up inside the line, looking for help. Gets it low.

San Luis back in front again. Stamkos scores! Number 60 for Stephen Stamkos! What a class move by the crowd here. Pretty awesome. That was actually pretty cool, yeah. We talked to Todd McClellan about this when we sat down with the Kings coach a couple of weeks ago. And I'll ask you the same thing because this is a sweet spot of the bat for you.

Going way back to the beginning doing video for an NHL team, were you the master of the VCR to VCR edit? I wasn't when I started but I quickly became that. Yeah, exactly what it was. It was VCR to VCR. It was multiple tape decks all looped together

and it was pause, play, pause, play on each one to kind of get what you needed. It took a lot longer back then to do a lot less. Like you've seen the change, like that technology. Huge, huge. Now it's. So how different is your job now? Like how much faster can you do your job?

Like I said, back then you couldn't do as much, but what you had to do took you way longer, right? So nowadays, I don't know that it's changed in terms of the amount of time. It's probably become more demanding because now most teams have two video coaches. Like there's, we have two, Brian Garlock being the other video coach for the Lightning, but I find now there's,

we got asked for more because number one, the coaching staffs are much larger than they used to be. When I started, it was three, four coaches on a team. Now you got seven guys. So you have a lot more people tugging at you

for different things, but you can do a lot more. You have access a lot more. It's all digitized. It's all computerized. So there's analytics now. So it's really wide in that regard. So it's now become a two-man job. So it takes me less time to do a lot more,

but you get asked for a lot more. As you mentioned, you started off, I guess, in sales. Yeah. And then was it Terry Crisp who came and said, I want you to move on the coaching staff? Yeah. I actually told him to go fly a kite. That's not the exact words I use,

but I'll let you fill in the blanks. Why did he come to you? So you got to remember at the beginning of the lightning, it's not like organizations are now. There was like 30 of us or 40 of us trying to launch hockey in Tampa, Florida. And again, I was 20 years old. I had zero clue what I was doing from a sales standpoint. You know, that was, again, not my career path at the time.

So I got involved because I, I've been hired by the team. I got asked, and there's a lack of youth hockey coaches in the area at the time. I got asked to coach amateur hockey or youth hockey. And I said, yeah, absolutely. I'd love to. I got very involved in the,

in the youth community in Tampa, which wasn't very big at the time. There was not a lot of kids playing and I was coaching them, the midget hockey team at the time or helping out, I should say. What ended up happening was you had all these couple organizations that were around reaching out to the lightning all the time saying, can you help us with this?

Can you get us money for this? Can you get us tickets for this? Can you? And so the executives are constantly coming into my office because I was the only one in the office connected to the community. So they come and ask me questions all the time. And then they quickly figured out that they needed to put their arms around this a little bit.

And so they gave me, because we had no money and trying to start off, they put another hat on my head and said, you're now the director of amateur hockey for the Lightning. So I was a salesperson, but I also became the amateur hockey director. Wait a minute. Did they give you the, we can't give you a raise,

but we can give you a title? That's exactly, that's exactly what I, I'm not even sure they went as far as say, I'm not even sure they said we can't give you a raise. I think they just put you now this, added a line to my business card and there was no discussion of salary whatsoever. But at that age, I was just happy to have a job at that point. So I became, this is a long way of saying I became the amateur hockey director, went

to USA Hockey Training Program. I became the guy that certified amateur hockey coaches in brilliant Florida. If you wanted to coach youth hockey to get certified, I was one of the instructors. I got sick and tired of doing these clinics by myself. So I started bringing Terry Crisp, Wayne Cashman, Danny Gare, Bobby the Chief Taylor. I started bringing them in as guest speakers. I thought it'd be better for the students to hear from a real coach as opposed to me. And so that led to lunches with Crispy afterwards

and with Chief and Cash and just picking their brains and scribbling down on napkins, asking them questions about how they did things or how do you handle this face-off or this D-zone. And again, we were a small company anyway, so there was more interaction with the staff and the hockey operations department than there is now. It's a little more segregated now, but. Between Bobby Taylor and Terry Crisp,

how many old Philadelphia Flyers brawl stories have you heard in your life? You know, one of the coolest things that happened to me early on that I'll never forget is we did a promotional caravan down to South Florida, like Fort Myers, Naples. I was wearing my sales hat at this time. And we got on a bus and we were doing street hockey clinics and we would make ticket appearances and that kind of stuff. And I was on a bus with like three employees. It was Terry Crisp, Danny Gare, Wayne Cashman, Tony Esposito, God rest his soul, Phil. I may be missing one or two others.

And obviously there was Cases of Beer on the bus, and you get those guys going a little bit. And it was awesome to hear all the different stories, again, from Tony Esposito, Phil Esposito, Cash, Crispy. And as a 20-year-old kid from Canada, that was kind of the era, a little bit early, but it was the era of hockey I kind of grew up with and an incredible experience, something I'll never forget.

And that's when I heard the Canada series and the stuff in Russia and some stories. I think there's a story out there about Wayne Cashman doing the chandelier that crashed. Trying to find the microphones. That's the first time I heard that story was on that caravan. So if it was a 20-year-old kid or a 22-year-old kid, it was a really cool experience to be on this bus.

And again, it was this giant bus, but there was only eight of us on there. And three of us had nothing to do with playing in the NHL. So it was just storytelling time. So how did Crisp get you to say yes to the, if you initially said go fly a kite. So he walks into my office and he was notorious for playing pranks on me and people, but especially me. I don't know how we got to that point,

but he's a practical joker. So he walks in my office and I had a marketing report due for a guy named Steve Donner that was late that I've been procrastinating on. He was finally getting on me to get this thing in. So I really didn't have time to waste with one of Crispy's jokes.

So Crispy comes in and I've actually the third video coach, the lightning I've ever had. There was two guys before me. They let him go, decided not to hire anybody for the season. And right before the season started, they decided, you know,

we need somebody. So I didn't know this, but Crispy comes in my office, decides that's going to be me. I think he's joking. Tell him to go take a hike because I got to get this report done. He's trying to tell me, no, no, you can do

blah, blah, blah. I'm like, I'm not qualified. I didn't play at a high enough level. Like I'm not the guy. Like I can't do this in the NHL. No way. In my head, he's joking. And he finally gets up.

My office faced the door. Most of my office is that way, but there was a chair that faced this way. He got up, he slammed the door shut. He picked faced the door. Most of my office is that way, but there was a chair that faced this way. He got up. He slammed the door shut. He picked up the chair. He turned it so it was facing me. He sat down and said, I want you to come work for me.

And so I'm like, all right, I'll bite. So we dig into it a little bit more. And again, I'm yesing him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He said something about they're going to probably come talk to you. You're the only guy I want. They're going to offer you some money. There's nobody else, so make sure you ask for more. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He said something about, they're going to probably come talk to you. You're the only guy I want. They're going to offer you some money. There's nobody else, so make sure you ask for more.

I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. He leaves. A few minutes later, the vice president of the Lightning comes in. And again, my immediate thought is, okay, he's in on it too. He comes in in front of me. And he goes, Dr. Crispy? He goes, yeah. He goes, we're thinking this number.

And I'm like, no, I want this number. I threw out a number. Again, this is not happening. No way. I'm getting hired to an NHL hockey staff. He leaves. Nothing happens. I don't think about it. The next day I come in, they got paperwork in front of me. They put in front of me, and people don't believe this, but I signed it and I threw it at them like, okay, we done with this now? He takes it and he walks out and nothing happened for about half an hour. Like no one came in and I kind of, I went out of the office,

I looked, I'm waiting for them. Nothing. And then I sat down and I went, oh my God, I just changed my career. And I had no, so then I walked down to the vice president's

office. I said, hey, about that thing I signed, is that serious? He goes, yeah, yeah,

yeah. You know, Chris, we'll talk to you, but yeah, you're going to, we're going to move you over to the hockey president's office. I said, hey, about that thing I signed, is that serious? He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, Chris, we'll talk to you, but yeah, we're going to move you over to the hockey operations side. And I went back, okay. And I acted like, okay, I knew that. And I walked back and I'm like, oh no. Because I didn't think I could do it. Like I thought not qualified for this, right?

So panic set in at that point because I just changed my career and I had no intention of doing that. And it's ended up being just a tremendous blessing. Wow. So since you've been through this organization and so many different, not just players, but people have gone through, would it be safe to say that you have a story about most,

if not all of the players that have gone through? Like if I throw a random name at you. Player-wise? Yeah. Would you have a story about that? Possibly. Like when you're on the coaching side of things, you don't hang out with the players, you know, a lot.

So, you know, away from the rink, I don't know that I have a ton of stories there. There's a few that I wonder about. Yeah. And one is Manal Rayom. Manal Rayom, yeah. What do you remember from that situation? So I was not in hockey operations when she got hired,

but I do remember her coming to the organization and Crispy being the coach. I heard rumblings about a little bit of a concern about whether we were actually going to play her or not in a game. Yeah. Again, but I was not in the hockey operations. I don't know the details of this.

We were doing everything we can from what I understand to get attention to the team. Sure. Like that. And I think Phil really wanted to make a splash. And Manorion was a really talented female goalie and there was an opportunity there. And she deserved the opportunity. So the only thing I know about it was Phil brought her in.

I think there was some concerns whether she could or could not play in an actual game or not. I think she played in a preseason game. That was not a big deal. So it ended up being a big splash for us and a really good thing. So the other one, and I'm going to kind of go on a fishing trip here and I really want this story to be true.

So if it's not, can you lie to me and tell me that it is? If I know the story, yeah. So I think Rick Dudley is one of the most interesting people in hockey. For sure. I am forever going back to the bandana and the Cincinnati Stingers. For sure, yes. I am forever going back to the bandana and the Cincinnati Stingers.

I am full on Rick Dudley. Is it true that there was a time where he got right into feng shui, Chinese wind water principle, interior design, and redesigned the tamper room and the gym and all that based on wind, water principle. I don't know all the details of feng shui, but that is absolutely 100% true. Yes, the locker room was red. You walked into our locker room and it was red and black. The striping, I know you've been in our locker room.

You know the locker room. So where the blue stripes with the black trim on the side goes down the wall. That for several years was red and black. Really? And it had everything to do. And again, I know nothing about Feng Shui, but it had everything to do with Feng Shui. I know that there was,

what was in the ceiling? There were things in the ceiling tiles. Like if you went into the ceiling tiles of the locker room, was it, was it stones? There was something, there was a water fountain in the, in the gym.

There was like one of those pebble garden waterfall things that was plugged in that, that was in the gym. There was like one of those pebble garden waterfall things that was plugged in. That was in the gym. And then there was stuff in the ceiling tiles in the locker room itself too. I don't remember what it was, but I know there was stuff in the ceiling. I think it was also rocks or something like that that were hidden there, and it was all feng shui related. But that's absolutely true. Do you remember how the players reacted?

The thing I remember about everyone reacting is anyone, anytime you brought somebody to the locker room, like the family or friends or whatever, they always would have that puzzle look like, why is everything red and black? You have to go like, well, our GM's into Feng Shui. There's a waterfall over there. Yeah, and there's a waterfall in the gym.

But Rick Dudley's one of my favorite people that I've ever come to. I think he's fascinating, man. I love Rick Dudley. How many times, I'm assuming the answer is you have seen him. Describe his workouts. Well, first of all, he works out like four times. He's not a guy you want to.

He's always been like that. He's a big man. And I don't know how old he is now, but I would not want to fight him. He is a thick, strong guy. He worked out all the time. He's very intense. I wasn't there for it, but I remember he ripped out a water fountain, one of those water fountain things out of the wall once in a game.

He actually threatened to fire me one time for not staying out and drinking with him. We were on the road to Philadelphia, and he's not a drinker. He's not a big drinker, but one night he got into a couple, and everyone kind of left. So I said, all right, one time I got to go to bed. He's like, no, no, you're sitting here. Have another one. Have another one. We never drink. We probably have another one. So I sat with him, had one. all right. One time I got to go to bed. He's like, no, no, you're sitting here. Have another one. Have another one.

We never drink. We probably have another one of them. So I sat with him, had one. I said, okay, I got to go. He goes, no, you have another. I said, no, Rick, I'm going. Like, I'm done. And he actually got mad.

He goes, you shit down here and you have another here. He just growled about it. And all you can think is I've seen him doing shoulder presses before. I'm going to do whatever he says. But I blew him off. I kind of like, he's not serious. And then I was like, no, I'm going to bed. He goes, you won't have a job tomorrow.

You're going to sit down there. And Rick, you can't fire me for not having a drink. And he goes, yes, I can. I absolutely can. I'll sit down. And so, yeah, he did threaten me one time to fire me if I didn't have a drink with him. And we felt it the next day.

Let me put it that way. So this is a perfect time for me to ask this question. What are the great stories about the Tampa Bay Lightning that have never been told? A lot I can't tell, but there's a, I can tell you one time it was previous ownership, previous GM. I'm not going to say any names, but one of the wildest things I saw was we had a situation once where two of the owners weren't getting along very well. Some factions had kind of developed in the office. The GM was on one side, some executives were on the other side, and one executive was going on a trip to New York on the team plane. The GM found out about it at the time.

And again, this is going back a number of years, so it's not connected to Eisenman or Julian or Vinnick or anything like that. I'll just say it happened well before that. The GM found out that this executive was going on the plane and he was on the wrong faction. And he went to our travel guy and said, I don't want this guy on the airplane. If this guy's getting on the airplane, he cannot go on the airplane. I do not want him on the plane and he was on the wrong faction. And he went to our travel guy and said, I don't want this guy on the airplane.

If this guy gets on the airplane, he cannot go on the airplane. I do not want him on the airplane. You're fired if he gets on the airplane. It's like, okay. So next day we show up to the flight and the guy comes into the FBO and our travel guy's like,

hey, you, listen, this is really awkward, but the GM says you can't go on the team plane. The executive's like, Ryan, I'm sorry in the middle of all this stuff, but it's not your fault, but I'm getting on the airplane. He goes, well, I'm just telling you the GM doesn't want you on their plane. He gets the owner on the phone. He gives the owner to our travel guy. Our travel guy says, hello.

He goes, Ryan, I understand you're in a difficult spot here, but he's the general manager. I'm the owner. I want this guy on the plane. He's getting on the plane. No problem. Guy gets on the plane. GM comes walking in, finds out the executive's on the plane.

Calls over the travel guy. Travel guy, I told you not to let him on the airplane. He goes, I know, but I just, he put the owner on the phone. The owner, he goes, he's not the owner of the team. He's going to be out as the owner. We're all watching this. And the travel guy's like, well, it's news to me. He's not, I don't, I'm not always an owner right now.

He goes, no, he's not an owner, blah, blah, blah. All right. So he goes out to the airplane, tries to kick the guy off. The guy won't come off the airplane. Jeez. It gets ugly. GM wants to call the cops, our lead flight girls. Like, no, we're not calling the police.

We can handle this. So the guy comes off the airplane, huge screaming match between the general manager and the executive. Right on the tarmac, everyone sees this. Guy gets off the airplane. We get up. We get on the airplane. General manager calls a travel guy up to the front of the plane, fires him in the middle of the trip. We're going to New York.

Guy comes back and goes, I just got fired. We're like, for what? He goes, for letting the executive on the airplane. He goes, they can't. You serious? He goes, yeah. And apparently the GM had said, like, he's not an owner. He's no longer an owner of the team, which wasn't true.

He was an owner of the team. He still was, in fact, one of the owners. But then fired him, said, when we land, got the team credit card, book yourself a flight back to Tampa, get yourself a car, but you're done. And then as we're approaching into New York, he hired the guy back again. Like he told him, like, yeah, he allowed him to hire us.

So I've seen some really crazy stuff like that. One time I once, again, I want to mention we had a player and coach get into it on the airplane and coach threw the player off the airplane, right on the tarmac, left him, plane took off, left the guy on the tarmac. Tortorella is always interesting. What was he like to work for? Awesome. He's not the ogre that everyone portrays him to be. I understand he can sometimes be a little difficult with media, but to work for him, he's unreal. ogre that everyone portrays him to be I understand he can sometimes be a little difficult with media but to work for him

he's unreal like he's fantastic definitely one of my favorites so I got into it with him a few times but they're always funny when you get into it he just forgets about it the next day he's really good about like he gets into it with you and it's over with one time we got on an airplane and we just when we got computers

for the first time we were making that switch and they were a little glitchy back then. So it was always giving us a little bit of problems. And the plane we sat on, I sat across from, my back was to the cockpit and Jeff Reese, our goalie coach is my left. And Craig Ramsey was in the other corner. There's four of us in that front compartment. And he's just MFing me like because of the computer glitches and he's just giving it to me, giving it to me. And I have this bad habit. I mumble like I do under my breath. I get it from my mom.

And I started doing that. And I never realized I'm doing it. And he saw me, right? And he goes, you got something you want to say to me? And now I'm caught, right? I'm like, oh, no. He goes, you got something you want to say to me? Say it.

And I'm like, no, no, no, no. He goes, say it. Have some. I have to be careful, no, no, no, no. He goes, say it. Have some, I'd be careful what I say here. Have some guts. Guts and say it. I'm like, no, no, no. And he's just needling me and needling me and needling me.

And finally I'm losing it. Craig Ramsey and Jeffrey's aren't even paying attention. And they're so used to him and I going at each other. And finally I say, you know what, Torts, there's times like this where I just want to punch you right in the freaking head.

And he goes, well, just try it. Well, I'm right here. Freaking try it. I go, I will try. You keep running your mouth. I try it. I'm right here. Try it.

I go, I will try. Run your mouth some more. I will try it. I'm not saying, I'm swearing by the way. He said one of the greatest things I've ever heard in my life. He goes, well, that seatbelt isn't going to unbuckle itself.

Right? So now I'm yelling at him, but I start to giggle. And he's yelling at me, and he starts to giggle. So we're yelling at each other, just squaring at each other, but we're no longer, we're giggling and laughing the whole time. Craig Ramsey and Jeff Rees

don't know what to make of it. They're just staring like, what the hell is going on over there? But that's how he was. In the middle of this, like I thought we're going to, once I thought we're going to go fight and next thing I know, we're just laughing hysterically as we're trying to, you know, curse each other out. So.

I want to ask you about just what it's like with some of the current guys. Kucherov, demanding guy, like Stamkos, demanding guy. It looks friendly, but I understand very demanding guy. Like just what's but I understand a very demanding guy. Like just what's it like to be around these guys?

They're all great guys. Kooch is a, one thing people don't know about Kooch is his work ethic. Marty St. Louis might be the only other one I can think of. When I think of players that are dedicated to their craft and leave no stone unturned, Kucherov and Marty, and I,

Marty's going to kill me because I'm really tight with them, but I might even have to give Kuch the edge over Marty in terms of how much he works at his game. When the season's over, Kuch takes a week or two off and then he's on the ice every day, all summer on Brandon Bynes working on his skills. And he doesn't like it when other people aren't keeping up with him in terms of working at his craft. He's unreal in that regard.

In the locker room, pretty quiet. Like he doesn't say a whole lot. I think people will remember when we won the cup, the whole – are you kidding me? That whole thing. But that was the Cooch I had never seen before. He had a few pops in him, of course. Could be just one.

But that's not the normal Cooch. Cooch is very quiet, very laid back, real soft-spoken. And Stammer, I've been with Stammer a real long time. And Stammer is just a great guy, good captain, good leader. And they're both just huge parts of our team. But individually, they're fantastic people. So very different personalities. What do you remember about that Columbus series and afterwards?

Because there were, I remember going into the draft that year and there were all kinds of Tampa's blowing it up. This guy's going here. That guy's going there. They're not going to stick. It was wild with the rumors. I can only imagine what it must've been like to be there. It was stunning.

Like, uh, I don't know what other word to use, but stunned. Like I remember game one, we had a, I don't remember the score. I'm terrible scorers, but I think it was the three, one leader. The backup goalie didn't thought he was going in for Columbus. He didn't want to go in. No, a matter of fact. I think maybe the best thing Torts did was not pulling, was Bob, was Bobrovsky, right?

Bobrovsky, yeah. Was not pulling, I wish he'd pulled him. But he stuck with Bob and Bob was great after that. And they came back and they beat us. And Duchesne knocked down his clearing attempt. Jones goes in and digs it free to the center point. Wierenski to Panarin, back to Jones. He shoots and he scores!

I'm jonesing for a power play goal, and Seth Jones just buried it. Kind of set us back a little bit, but I wasn't concerned. We played a really good game and got a little unlucky. Then they win this game too, so now panic, not panic didn now panic, not panic, but it just got a little heavy. And then after game three, I think the weight and the pressure may have done us in after that. We hadn't found our way yet as a team.

And what I remember about it was driving out of Columbus after we'd just been swept and how painfully quiet. We were all stunned. Like it was just, we were shocked. No one expected to get, it's one thing to lose a series. You lose it in seven or whatever. But to get swept was after winning the president's trophy, I think we were all shocked and devastated. But I got to tip my hat off to Julian Breeze.

We stayed the course. You see a lot of teams blow up after that and they make a lot of changes and we didn't, we made a tweak, we made a tweak or two, I don't remember what they were, but you got to give your hats off to the general manager if we just stayed the course and then won it in 2020.

So if the 2004 Tampa Bay Lightning. I get this a lot. Were to drop the puck against the 2020 and 2021 Tampa Bay Lightning, seven-game series. So I get this question a lot. No matter what I say, I'm going to tick one side off or another. Got to remember, two different styles of hockey. So the 0-4 team won with the red line. The 2020-2021 didn't win with the red line.

So what rules are we playing under? You decide. You decide. Come on, help me out. No, this is your interview. You pick. I'll say this. I think if we're playing without the red line, the 20 team wins.

If we're playing with the red line, I think the 0-4 team wins. How about coming right down the middle with that one? All right. Okay, let me see if this will get anything. Did the gel on a shot go in? Did not go in. Well, remember game six, there was a goal at one point that looked like it had crossed the line,

but it never counted. The NHL ruled that it didn't go in. That was the shot that we had. Our guys worked very hard on this computer animation to see if we could look at it from a different angle. Not scientific, and they made certain assumptions, including the height of the puck. But the computer animation that we generated

with the only information we had shows the NHL absolutely made the right call. There's no way they could conclusively say it was over the line. I personally stand corrected. I said it was in that it looked like it was in. We we all did but the nhl was adamant in their replay look the entire puck has to be over the goal line i have a brother that's a big calgary fan he says i think it was in i said what he says i think it was in i said you think or you know i think there's your answer it has to be

100 i recall a canadian company seeking out to prove that it did go in. I saw this on TV. And I want to say it was a – don't hold me to this. I want to say a company out of Edmonton took known measurements, redigitized the whole thing, and then they rotated the whole thing. Parallax angle. So that's the thing that people don't know anything about is parallax angle. And if you look – the angle that it looks like the puck was in is from the front of the net looking down.

The puck's in the air and you can see the red line. So it looks like it's crossed, but it's in front and in the air. And I know a Canadian company who set out to prove that it was a goal ended up proving that it wasn't. And actually Sutter came on. Daryl Sutter did say it wasn't. Daryl Sutter came on and said, I know nobody in Calgary wants to hear that, and I apologize, but I have not seen an angle that tells me

that puck legitimately went in. At the time, I think a lot of us were kind of surprised that Calgary lined up to face off as quickly as they did. I thought, if this thing's close, don't take the draw. Do you remember thinking like, whew, okay, they're going to the draw. Okay, good. Well, actually, no, I was not panicked about it

because at no point did I think it was in until after the game was over, I realized it became a big deal. And that's when I looked at even some more. So when the puck dropped, I really didn't think anything of it. It wasn't in my mind. And then after the game became a really, and for years, it became a really big thing. But I tip my hat off to Daryl Sutter because right away,

I think in his press conference that night, he said it wasn't in. And he said, I think his exact words were, don't hold me to this, but were, I've not seen an angle in which that puck was in. So I know Calgary fans don't want to hear that. And I think if we had the camera angles that we have now, it would have been proven so. The obvious answer may be Dave Anderchuk to this question, so maybe let's exclude him from this.

That first cup, who were you happiest for? Probably Craig Ramsey Probably Craig Ramsey. Craig Ramsey, because he had lost in the 70s. Everybody else would be equal after that. Marty, Vinny, Brad Richards. That was a really tight group. I guess I think all Stanley Cup teams are probably pretty tight, but that was a really tight group.

So for me to single out any player, I can't pick Marty over Vinny or Vinny over Brad, or I was probably closest with Brad Richards. The answer is Anderchuk. But if you're taking him out of the equation, I would say it's Craig Ramsey, assistant coach. Torts too, you know, because that was an easy job coming in there and taking over that

franchise at that time, if you remember. But I'd say Craig Ramsey. I wanted to ask you what it's like to work like Iserman, demanding. Very. People tell me he's the most demanding guy alive. Very. But what it's done is, and now with Breezeblown,

Cooper, and the players now, it's set a tenor for the organization. Like, you guys won one cup, you weren't satisfied. You won two cups, you weren't satisfied. Like, seeing how angry Hedman was on the ice after you lost last year. Like he set the tone. And I wonder, what was it like around him?

What was it like to work for him? One of my favorite people I've ever worked for, he is tough. He is a tough, tough boss. He's one of the wittiest guys I've ever been around. Cutting humor, like biting humor. I've heard when he's trying to be funny and he's joking around,

he has the whole room in stitches. Like he is so quick witted. I've never seen a guy faster with a one liner. It's amazing when he comes up with, but when he takes that same wit and he's mad at you or he's mad at somebody, the things that come out of his's mad at you or he's mad at somebody, the things that come out of his mouth are wow. Like it's,

he slices your aorta open and you bleed out. Like it's, it's, it's cutting man. Like I saw him one time, uh, I got stuck. It was, uh,

it was during the playoff series against Detroit. I don't remember. We played them back to back years. So I don't remember what year it was. But it had been around 15, 16 in those years. And he was a GM. And it was a practice day in Detroit at the old Joe Lewis. And we were having issues with some of the refereeing,

a particular issue with the refs. And Bill McCreary was the off-ice official. And he came in to talk to Steve in the coach's room and myself and Brian Garlock, the two video coaches were in the room just doing video stuff. And Steve was not buying what Bill McCreary was trying to sell about the,

and the things that came out of his mouth. I don't remember the lines, but I just remember wanting to crawl into the table and Brian, Brian Garlock, the other video coach, we were just looking at each other like, oh my God, like, should we be in here? But it was too late. There was no way to sneak out of there quietly and effectively. But I wanted to hide under the table because what he was saying was just, it was ruthless. I find it, I find him amusing and he's just, he's torn a strip off me before too.

To me, something funny about it because he's, the things he says are just hilarious to me. Even when he's mad at you, they're just funny. And, uh, but I've been on the, on the receiving end of his wrath and it's, uh, it's not a fun place to be. He's a tough boss. I did not expect that from him at all. When he came in as a general manager, I was, for some reason, I had this different impression about him.

It was not that at all. Way tougher than I thought. Loved him. Loved him. Loved him. People told me there's a reason he wins. Yeah. He's demanding. His expectations are really, really high.

And the stories I've heard from other guys that played for him, you know, and the way he was as a player, it sounded like the bar was set real high with him. And if you were, there's no tolerance for anything underneath that. Well, from what I saw, I carried on over as a GM, uh, based on what I've heard about it. I was in a locker room as a player, obviously, but he definitely set the tone for the franchise's

expectations. And, and there's no question he laid the foundation for the success we saw. I really wish he'd, he'd been around for, for the two cups and I'm, cause he was still that 2019 year, I think it was the year that he'd. Cause he was still that 2019 year, I think it was a year that he'd stepped aside and was Julian to taken over, but he was still kind of consulting or whatever. And so that was our last opportunity with him to, and we got bounced by Columbus in the first round.

So I really wish we'd pulled it out for him there, but forever indebted to that man for the hardware he put on our fingers. I'm going to ask you to talk about yourself for a sec. Oh, what would you say? Like, don't be humble here. That's my nature.

Don't be humble. Don't be humble. What would you say your greatest contribution to this team has been? Cause this is like a wildly successful organization. And they love having you around. They really do. What is there? Are there a couple of things you can point at and say,

yes, it's a team that's mine? No, I, I really don't look at it that way. I, and I hate to disappoint you with the answer, but we all have to come together and play a role. It's like a, it's like an orchestra, it's a band and we all have a, we all make our small contributions. You know, my real responsibility is to manage the video system that we have and help with pre-scouts and that kind of stuff. So is there one thing I've done on a pre-scout that's made a difference in a game?

I don't know for sure. We have to make the calls. I think you're being too humble. I'm not capable of patting myself on the back and anyone that knows me knows I'm uncomfortable in the spotlight. So I've heard that before other teams have come for you because you've been around a long time and it's like when a team is successful, people want what makes them successful.

Have you ever thought about going anywhere else? Has there ever been a time where someone said, we have another opportunity for you elsewhere and we'd love for you to bring your expertise and your knowledge with you. I almost went to Pittsburgh. I have to be careful how I say that. When I say almost went to Pittsburgh, there was a period of time

where my chain was getting yanked a little bit. A bunch of years ago, a bunch of regimes ago, I wasn't getting answers about a contractor coming back and I think they were trying to slow roll me years ago, a bunch of regimes ago, I wasn't getting answers about a contractor coming back or anything. And I think they were trying to slow roll me into the end of the summer to kind of give me a bit of a sucker deal. And a coach called me with the Penguins at the time looking for somebody. And I was actually on a flight to the Virgin Islands to go on a fishing trip.

And I told that coach, I said, look, I think they're messing with me here. I think they're trying to screw me over. I might be interested. And he says, Nigel, if you're available, I'd take you. Like, let me know. I said, listen, my preference is to stay in Tampa. He goes, well, if you're not going to stay in Tampa, I got a spot for you here. I ended up calling the head coach at the time, not the head coach now,

and said, listen, I have an opportunity potentially to go to Pittsburgh. GM is not really making a move here with me. And next thing I know, I get a phone call from the drill manager and we got something done. But yeah, and Torch has wanted me at different times to come with him as well. I've heard that's the guy. I've heard that's the guy. Yeah. But I have a great gig you're a lightning yeah i i love tampa my family's there too my parents are older and and um growing up away from home like as you know i told you earlier i left home when i was kind of nine years old and uh to leave again and be away from family at a later age i didn't want to do it. I love Tampa. I love the

organization. It's been especially great under Jeff Vinnick. I just really haven't a desire to leave. I know this might kind of be like, okay, choose your favorite child here, but who are some of your favorite players that you've worked with? Which players have you found are really interested in what

you do? There's a bunch. Marty St. Louis. Surprised he's a coach? No, no. I didn't think you'd say yes. You know what? I don't think there's anything Marty St. Louis can do that can surprise me.

I think he's one of those guys that has been underestimated his whole life, and he's always found a way to come out on top. And so I'm never going to bet. I will not bet against that guy in any way to come out on top. And so I'm never going to bet. I will not bet against that guy in any way, shape, or form. Cooch. Actually, a couple goalies.

Sean Burke, Olaf Kulzig, Anderchuk, Corey Sarich. Actually, the late Brian Marchment. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Great guy. There's been a lot of guys that have really been good to me and also shown a real interest in what I do and how I can help them.

So those are probably the ones that stand out the most off the top of my head. There have been a couple of first overall picks for Tampa, two specifically, Vincent Le le cavalier and steven stamkos one was called the michael jordan of hockey oh my gosh we were just yeah i remember that yeah and the other had this wild scene stamkos campaign around him what do you remember from those two things the michael jordan of hockey first and then the Seen Stamkos campaign. What was interesting about that one

was we had a team dinner in Florida and the owner at that time met with the team. This is on the heels of calling him Vinny the Michael Jordan of hockey and we're in a private team dinner and that owner then went on to throw coaches and management under the bus with some players saying, I'm not going to say the name of the players,

but this player here, player A, I hear you don't work very hard, that you're not interested in getting better at your craft. And things that are private conversations that coaches may have with management, that kind of stuff. And, and this owner was very intrusive at the time. And he shared all this stuff that we said with the players in a team dinner, because we have to have frank conversations with management about players and,

and this owner. So that same owner did that in front of the team. So I know you're asking about that specific remark, but when I hear that remark, I think about the dinner that followed that remark and the comments he made to the team afterwards were, it was uncomfortable. It was very, very uncomfortable. Was it tough to repair?

Well, he only lasted a year. So he sold the team after a year, which was probably a good thing because he wanted to go in the locker room and talk to the team after games all the time. And Phil, who was a, well, actually he ended up getting rid of Phil. Phil had to stop him on multiple occasions. That whole period was very uncomfortable. So when I think of that line, I think of the owner

and I think about all the stuff that followed after that. So what about the scene Stamkos campaign? Scene Stamkos. Well, you got to remember too, the franchise, we, we were, we had dipped by this point. This was post Stanley Cup 04, team was on the slide and, you know, we're doing what we can, or again, it's not my job. It wasn't my job at the time, but I think we're doing everything they can. Again, it's not my job. It wasn't my job at the time.

But I think they're doing everything they can to try to get fans back in the building and promote the team. And we didn't have a lot to hang our hats on at that time, right? So Stammer was the guy. And he was the consensus number one pick and the great player that was coming up along, coming next. And so we probably unfairly plastered him all over Tampa. Like you couldn't walk around Tampa without seeing his face

with a billboard. Windshields. Everywhere. Windshields and cars in malls. Which is a lot of pressure to put on a young player, right? Like it's everywhere you went. Well, that's what we were all saying

here in Canada. It's like, there's a lot of pressure for this guy. Like it's just this. So sometimes it might be a little bit of a disconnect between marketing and what the goals are in hockey operations and the development process. So I think that's one of the times we may have failed a little bit there.

But that was a funky time for the organization, too, in terms of what was going on with ownership. I asked you earlier, who are you happiest for? And you mentioned Craig Ramsey and one of the people that I can, I can recall because he, he didn't have a traditional route to the NHL, but was successful at the American league. And then the NHL is Jay Feaster. Oh yeah. When you guys won, because there's all, what's this lawyer going to do in hockey, right? Like we all remember those,

those comments. Do you have a thought on Jay Feaster? Great boss. Really fun to work with. Very fair to all the employees and staff. He and Torch made a really good combination, I felt, because Torch was the guy that had been in hockey. And they really worked off each other well. Like Jay really relied on Torch in terms of the, the hockey portion of it.

He trusted Torch to pick out the players and, and, and, and really left him alone in that regard. And Jay knew how to manage John Tortorella. Cause John, let's face it needs some managing at times. Right.

So I thought they were kind of a deadly combination of coworkers there and, and, and boss employee. Really good fit. Jay was a very bright guy, and he knew what he was good at and what he wasn't good at, and really left the hockey to the Bill Barbers and the scouting staff, and he kind of let them do their jobs. staff and he kind of let them do their jobs. And he was very good in terms of supporting everyone's needs,

whether we needed to buy stuff, he made sure the money was there financially and coaches, he left the coaching, he left the coaching staff alone to run the team. And so just got it really good boss. Vincent Lecavillier, did you think he was getting traded to Montreal? There was a period of time where I was concerned about that. Yes. I did. I did think he was going to go to Montreal at one point, so glad he didn't. But yeah, yeah, for sure. I thought he was going.

I remember that. I remember that all-star game and in the airport where he was swarmed with Montreal Canadiens fans and he had this look on his, on his face. Like, I don't know what, because it's all the rumors, right? Like the Cavaliers going to Montreal.

I just remember the look on the Cavaliers face, almost being like, like overwhelmed by like, wow, this is what it would be like to be in Montreal. As everyone's just clamoring for, for, you know,

the next great French Canadian center. Yeah. And then they, they wanted them there. Right. And, and they wanted him there, right? And it kind of happened again fairly recently with Stammer when Stammer's contract was up. There was a lot of rumors about him coming back here to Toronto, and I was concerned there too whether we were going to lose him to Toronto or not.

But thankfully, we were able to keep both of them. But yeah, I thought probably more so Vinny than Stammer, but I thought Vinny was going to go to Montreal at one point, yeah. This has been great. Thanks so much for this. Thanks for your time. You've been reallymer. But I thought, I thought Vinny was going to go to Montreal at one point. Yeah. This has been great. Thanks so much for this. Thanks for your time. You've been really generous. No,

no, not a problem. Happy to do it. So thank you very much. I really hope you enjoyed that interview. You know, Nigel gave us like 90 minutes of his time. Great chats before,

great chats after. And I think Elliot is onto something. I still don't get the sense that we came anywhere close to getting all the Tampa Bay Lightning stories that we wanted out of Nigel. We may need to do a sequel down the road. Thank you, by the way, to the Tampa Bay Lightning for making him available. And Nigel, thank you for being so generous with your time and your stories. Taking us out, a six-piece band with a rich Canadian history. Bastronaut have been around for a while.

Their catalog is full of amazing sounds as well. You'll hear a clarinet, trumpet, guitar, drums, ee-wee. That's right, ee-wee. From the 2016 record, here's Bastronaut with Hawk on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Been having this feeling since I was a young man Running away from town Been having this feeling since I was a young man No one slowed me down Thank you.