32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Nostalgia Plays and a Chat With Gary Bettman

Episode Date: October 24, 2025

In this edition of 32 Thoughts, Kyle Bukauskas and Elliotte Friedman begin the podcast with the fallout from Dustin Wolf's postgame comments on Wednesday. The focus then shifts to Toronto's start and life without Marner (11:38). The fellas talk about Brendan Shanahan joining the NHL in a consulting role (22:47). The delve into the rash of goaltenders having their masks knocked off during a scoring chance (26:21). They talk about the Canes and Avs rocking Whalers and Nordiques jerseys (33:56). They also delve into the Rangers-Sharks game and the turmoil in New York (42:40). The get into the newsy stuff with Adrian Kempe and where things stand with his extension (44:26). They check in with Vancouver and their pursuit of a centre (48:00). They put a spotlight on Tampa's really slow start (50:00). The Final Thought focuses on the betting scandal in the NBA (54:16).Kyle and Elliotte answer your emails and voicemails in the Thoughtline (1:09:27).Kyle and Elliotte chat with the Commissioner of the NHL, Gary Bettman (1:25:06).Today we highlight Connor Nelson from Vancouver BC and his song Paranoia. Check him out here. Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates

Here is the list of topics that I am currently putting together for Friday's broadcast. Oh, this ought to be good. William Nielander hates Toronto. Austin Matthews choose steroids like Skittles. And Anthony Stolars was born on Neptune. It's not going to matter because nobody is going to be watching. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast, World Series Edition. Happy Friday, everybody, Kyle Bukoskis, Elliot Friedman, Dom Shammati, back with you.

What to get to and what's gone on around the NHL the last few days. Also, later on in this edition, an interview with the Commissioner of the National Hockey League, Gary Bettman, as well. Elliot, the floor is yours for how you want to begin. I have a question. What do you got? What do you think gets more viewers Friday night? World Series Game 1 or the Leaf Sabres Regional I'm working on?

Now, don't, you don't have to rush your answer. You can think about this. what do you think gets more viewers you see i had my answer and then you finished by saying the leafs regional that you are working on so that change changes things slightly what the jays are going to win by more because i'm working the leave regional you were originally going with jays and now you're going with jays by more yes that's right that extra hundred thousand that would stuck around to watch leaf savers like oh god friedman give me down and buck instead i was offered a ticket to the game and i i said no can't bail oh my gosh that had to have been the hardest no you've had to

give in a while no it was easy you can't bail you can't bail okay on the soapbox you got to be a A 100%. Now, here is my theory. I can go on air Friday night and say anything, anything, and no one's going to notice. So, Kyle, here is the list of topics that I am currently putting together for Friday's broadcast. Oh, this ought to be good. William Nealander hates Toronto. Austin Matthews choose steroids like Skittles. My gosh.

And Anthony Stolars was born on Neptune. It's not going to matter because nobody is going to be watching. After the break, it's another edition of Take Your Pick, hosted by David Amber. Steroids or Neptune? Elliot, you start. Carolyn's got hosting duty, so she's the one who has to deal with. Oh, that's right. That's right.

Oh, my gosh. Sorry, Carolyn. My mind's still back in last season, scarred by some of those segments. So intermissions will be okay. Anyway, it's going to be an interesting weekend. And I wanted to point out, remember on the thought line last week, there was somebody who mentioned about back-to-backs. One of the things we forgot to point out, which actually became relevant in this, is that the games cannot be played sooner than 22 hours start times apart. And as many of you know by now, both the Friday game and the Saturday game moved, the Saturday game will now be.

played at 5 o'clock, and to make that all work, the Friday game, which was initially supposed to start at 7.30, has now moved back to 7. So I think it was a smart move to do all this, but that was another thing that came out. And, you know, before we'll start this talking about the Maple Leafs, but before we do that, Kyle, you were at a great charity event. Normally I say that Eric Francis is the second best EF at Sportsnet, but tonight, Thursday night, he was number one with his annual charity event, The Pizza Pig Out. Yes. Tell us about it. In support of Kidsport, Calgary, my first time going to it at Cowboys, so a tremendous venue for it, there was just, first of all, the title fits.

there were a lot of pizza there's a lot of local outfits here that sign on to be part of this night so good on them you could tell there was a lot of flames input when you look at the silent auction the live auction items

good on the organization for understanding the importance and wanting to be impactful within the community and the difference that a night like this can make so that was really cool Cassie Campbell Pascal was there I hadn't seen her since I've moved back here

It was great to be able to say hi to her. Some of our colleagues at 960 the fan were out there too. It was jammed. Again, I had nothing to base it off of, but talking to people that had gone in previous years were pointing out like, oh, there were a lot of people here this year. So hopefully that means only good things in terms of how much money was raised. They did a pizza eating competition at one point up on the stage. Man, like, kudos to those that sign up to go do that.

but that just seems like heartburn in waiting. Lots of good pizza, as I said, great crowd and hopefully tons of fundraise. So good on Eric Francis, as you say, for doing that and the fact that he's been the face of that for a long time. Really cool. It seems it's become a staple on the Calgary event calendar every year. There was a lot of people wanting to get in there on Thursday night. Lots of fun. All right.

Great job, Eric. And let's get to the show. Now, the first thing actually will do, Kyle, because I mentioned Lisa, and we'll get to them in a second. But one of the items league-wide that got a bit of attention on Thursday was Dustin Wolf's post-game from Wednesday night. Now, you worked as the rinkside reporter that night, and Wolf was fantastic, and they lost two to one on the great overtime goal set up by Demadov, and he had some quotes after, where he'd talked about basically saying, I had my man, I stopped the puck, and we couldn't score. Now, I was asked about this on Hockey Central at noon with Matt Marquesi and Mike Feuda on Thursday, and I said, look, I've seen this before.

I didn't see all the context. I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything before I rip the kid. And you said that there is more to this. Explain. Well, Alia, I think we've talked about it on this podcast before. There are times where how a quote sounds, how it looks on video versus printed in text, two completely different worlds. And I think that's where we're at here with what Dustin Wolf had to say post game. Because you could see it being put up.

out online, Calgary Flames lose a second consecutive game two to one. Dustin Wolf, quote, I mean, I can't generate offense, end quote. And you're like, whoa, whoa, talk about backing up over the rest of his teammates. I didn't view it at all that way being in the dressing room in that scrum as he was conveying. Everybody in there is frustrated, of course. but him in particular, him and Dobish at the other end for Montreal put on an incredible show on Wednesday night.

I more took that as, because the question was, you know, for him, you could see the looks on their faces as the night was going on. Eventually Klapka scored to tie the game, but all those chances beforehand were just, oh, right off the end of the stick, doesn't quite fall,

and the looks on their faces afterwards, and just asking him what all that was like from his vantage point. And I believed the point, the point that he was trying to make was when he said, I can't generate offense. It's him going, I can't really worry about that. Like there's nothing I can do to help increase scoring.

I'm just worried about trying to keep it out of ours. That was my read on it. I still don't say a professor to know him incredibly well. Even talking to Eric Francis, to bring him up again, he's been doing this in this market for a long, long time. I don't think he viewed that as Wolf throwing his team, mates under the bus, but naturally when you're on the skid that Calgary is on, anything like that, kindling is going to turn into a blaze very quickly.

All right. So Kyle Bacoska, as attorney at law for Dustin Wolfe, exonerates his client. The guy who used to do that a lot was Braden Holby. I remember the first time I ever heard it. It was a game at Washington lost, and he was unbelievable, and they couldn't score, and someone asked about that and he basically said look my job is not to talk about the offense my job is to stop the puck that's their job is to worry about the offense and i remember sitting there going whoa like that could go over really badly and i remember asking some people in washington about it some

of the players and the coaches and they're like nah that's just the way he talks and he talks like that all the time he's like i don't want to talk about the offense and what they're doing because that's not my job but it's not my expertise so for me i remember remember the first time I heard it, it was jarring, and then I just got used to it, and he did do it several times. It wasn't unusual for him. So I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here, Kyle. I'm not saying you're as incompetent as a Simpsons lawyer, Lionel Hutz, and I am accepting your explanation. For now. Yes. What was the bit last year, the Friedman Bukascus injury firm? Strikes again. Strikes again. Absolutely. Okay. Let's go to Toronto. All right. Are you working the game Saturday?

Yes, not Friday, but working the game Saturday. Yeah, I know what you won't be watching. No, I will. You've got your non-negotiables, I have mine. As hotly as that's all going to be contested Friday. I'll make sure my eyes on your game as well. but it's in it's been an interesting start in Toronto three three and one through seven games now we're kind of in that it's early but zone for a lot of teams now at this point of the year

and you couldn't help but notice at practice on Thursday William Nielander up on a line with Austin Matthews Craig Bruby's gone to that at times most games so far out of the gate this year. But the fact that these move, Matthew Nyes, with Tavares, he's a head coach that typically works in pairs, and even those got mixed up a little bit here ahead of the home and home with

the Sabres this weekend. We talked about, when we did that show in Prince Edward Island, about the effect that this is all Mitch Marner no longer being there going to have on Austin Matthews. And I still do believe and stand by the whole idea of

the best players, regardless of regardless of circumstances, things change, teammates, coaches, always find a way to still be difference makers. But it has been a slow start for Matthews. And there's no doubt when you look at where things are lining up in terms of the depth chart going into Friday, that's a big part of the equation and trying to get their captain going again. But it's been a team that they've won three of seven so far here, Elliot, but I don't know if at any point for a sustained amount of time, have you looked at the Leafs and said, yeah, that's what they're trying to play like. I think they're still trying to find it. It's obvious. So I was, I was having a

couple conversations with people about them on Thursday. And one of the more interesting things that a couple of them said to me was all these years that people were wondering about breaking up the core four and let's be honest about something here Brennan Shanahan was when he was in charge as he's admitted publicly

he was very serious about I'm banking on these four I think that they considered the possibility of trading Neelander during the contract dispute all those years ago. But Shanahan, that was his first draft pick. He was a big Neelander backer. I think they kind of thought about it with Marner once before last year,

and we'll get to that in a minute, kind of thought about it, but it didn't go very far. And one of the reasons that I think that they never went far, particularly with Marner, was not only Shanahan's feelings about them, but also that they honestly looked around and wondered what is a trade that we could really make for Marner, not a fantasy hockey trade, not a nutty sports radio caller trade, but a real actual trade that they could make where they would come out even or better. obviously you want to come out better but at least even and they just never saw anything you know they

weren't they weren't getting Nathan McKinnon for them they they never saw it now the one change I think was ranting last year for two reasons number one Marner was coming to the end and they thought there was a good chance he was leaving and so they had to be prepared for it. And two, Rantanin was the guy that was potentially being offered. That was a situation where they felt that if they could make that trade, they would be okay. They would be happy at the time trading Rantanin for Marner. And we all know that didn't happen. And I think at the end of the day, I don't think the hurricanes were interested in trading Rantan into Toronto. because they were worried about seeing them in the playoffs.

So now we're kind of seeing that, Kyle. Even though this was free agency, they made the deal. They got Nick Roy, who I still think is going to help them. And the people who felt that there wasn't a deal that made sense, they're pointing at this and saying, it's going to take you a while to figure this out and who knows where this is going to go and I think that's exactly what's happening is that all the stuff he did on the ice like whatever you feel about him like you want to spend five minutes seeing crazy stuff

Kyle go look at Okie's tweet last week like every Friday okay sends out who's on after hours ask questions look at the responses when okey sent out we're having Mitch Marner on okay and there's a lot of anger and there's a lot of passion and that's fine everyone's entitled but the bottom line is this guy did a lot on the ice for this team and also he was a presence behind this scenes. I've kind of wondered if any of that is different. But the on-eye stuff right now, Kyle, they haven't figured out how to replace all of that. And the number one thing is the thing he did the best for them, which was occupy the puck, create time in the offensive zone, and create

scoring chances out of it. Their possession numbers, especially for some of the top lines, they're way down and that's because they're adjusting to the loss of him so i'm not surprised um i expected that to happen and i think on some level and we know they've been chasing after a top six forward and we'll see what or if they can do anything here on some level this vindicates the people who said if you make a trade for this guy, you probably aren't coming out even and it will take you a while to figure it out. Well, yeah, because I can remember when Jake Muzin still played for the Leafs, he was considered a social organizer, one of the main ones on the group.

And then after the fact, Mitch Marner assuming a lot of that role. So it makes sense when you say the impact. off the ice and having to replace that and get used to him no longer being around for sure. They just, it just looks off. Like for years, they're not, they don't have a lot of spirit right now either. For years, they were considered a fast team. They haven't looked fast yet out of the gate. Just in some areas they were brilliant in a little one, but like the goal differential in the second period, for example.

They used for years, they feasted on team. with the long change. Right. They would pull away from teams and games in the middle period because they would take advantage of those situations, and now not the case. Power play, another one that they're still figuring out, like just a bunch of little things.

And to your point, possession, simple five-on-five play hasn't been there either. So they've managed to tread water enough where it's not danger zone entirely, like maybe some other teams around the league. It's just for the first time. They've had some tough octobers in years past. Don't get me wrong.

And the ship writes itself. Just feels a little off right now. Yeah. And it was interesting how, you know, Stoller spoke up. And, you know, one of the things we wondered about Kyle is when was the last time a Leaf spoke so pointedly about their team? And a couple of people mentioned Morgan Riley when they lost to Florida in 2023. there were some comments, but the one that someone pointed out to me,

I went back and read was Garrett Sparks. Do you remember when he teed off on them about five or six years ago? And like three weeks later, he was gone. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So it's been a long time.

But Stollers came out the other night after the game against New Jersey, like Roddy McDowell in Clockwork Orange. Oh, yeah, we played great. Yeah. Nothing to see here. Tree Living and Pelly had them hooked up to the brainwashing machine in between days. Yes. Well, actually, I'll just say quickly because remember, like, the first series of the Amazon doc comes out,

and there's the mic'd-up stuff on the bench with Nylander and Matthews and Marner, and how many of us went, oh, my gosh. I can't believe that they're arguing with each other and what is this going to mean going forward? I was under the impression that I think there were some people within the organization when they saw that. They were like, hallelujah, finally, some internal conflict and confrontation

where for a long time with that group, it didn't really happen, at least organically. I think that there was, you know, though obviously it was coming at a difficult moment, some happiness that there was at least, least players confronting one another when things weren't being played to their standards. So I thought about that a little bit when a little more after Stolar's comments last weekend. And would that be the same issue internally as maybe we thought?

Because that's an organization where from the players' perspective, there wasn't a ton of that going on with your question. Okay, when was the last time we heard anything like that? It just hasn't occurred very often. Anyway, we'll see. Buffalo is suddenly surging. We'll see. Yes.

You mentioned Josh Stone not too long ago. He's looked really great again. Big win against Detroit on Wednesday and now a home and home with Toronto this weekend. Yeah, the only bad thing is that normally those Friday night games in Buffalo are crazy. The least fans come down. There's craziness in the stands. It probably won't be the case. So it's going to be more of a tepid night, I think, in the stands.

Very disappointing. I used to love those games. Kyle, we mentioned Shanahan a couple of minutes ago. We should address this that he's going to be joining the league in a consulting role. I expect that his preference is to run another team. and I believe he will get that opportunity. Now, you know, for whatever people say about his time in Toronto, the question is, when you leave an organization,

do you leave it in a better place than you found it? And the question, and the answer for him is yes. Like there's no question that Toronto is a better team now than when he got there. Are there things he did that maybe people would disagree with? 100%. Everybody does that. But top to bottom, they were better.

They, like the one thing everybody there talked about was they spared no expense to put their players in the optimum position to win. You know, sometimes people wondered, are we being too good to them? Are we removing any discomfort? But the bottom line is he believed that that is the way you put players in the best position to win, and Toronto did that. In the end, his time ran out. That's fine.

It happens. But he stabilized that team and made it, and that organization and made it better. It's interesting, though, because, you know, eventually at some point in time, Colin Campbell's going to move on, and he's not going to be in that top hockey position anymore. And I think people have wondered who's going to be the individual who's going to take over. You know, they had Ken Holland in the league a little bit, but he wanted to go back where the action was. now they have Shanahan back in the league and even though my guess is

if he has choice he would rather go back and run a team I think he would be on the short list of people who would be considered for that another guy I've wondered about it would be Chris King who's there right now and is very much Colin Campbell's second in command

I think he is definitely someone who will also be on the list of those who could take over the job. But it's interesting that A, Shanahan goes back and B, it'll be interesting to see what the vision is for the future, whether it's a team, which I think would be his preference, or potentially taking over for Colin Campbell, which I think the commissioner wouldn't mind. That's the one thing we forgot to ask him. Who retires first, the commissioner or Colin Campbell? Who outlasts the other? That's a good question. I'm sure the audience will find more questions we didn't think of asking. Yes, that's right.

Won't be the only one. Okay, where do you want to go from here? Where do you want to go next? So you couldn't help but notice the Pavel Buznevich goal in the St. Louis, Utah game on Thursday night, because, as you pointed out in your latest 32 thoughts, blog that's the third time in what a week and a half we've seen yeah goaltenders mask been knocked off and play not stopped immediately after because of the pending scoring chance and in this case there was a goal being scored so what are your thoughts on what's all been

happening in those situations well you know i understand the rule i understand the rule it came at a time where teams were complaining goalies were shaking off their masks right they were taking advantage of any contact and they're shaking off their mass and also, you know, they do feel if you legitimately have a good chance to score, and it's kind of been the rule for a long time, you legitimately have a chance to score, you get the chance to score. And in all three of those cases, Hill, Stollers, and now Vamelka, there were chances to score. You know, Stollers, the other Leaves thought he was nuts, and he went back in there and made a pad save, and Hill, I actually forgot, got hit in the groin area and had to leave the game. So, and, you know, you could tell

with Vamelika, he was kind of stunned, and I think he thought they were going to blow the whistle. I think he was honestly shocked that they let that play continue. And so as a goalie, you have to know the rule, and it's clear that, you know, Stollers and Hill did, I'm not sure if Amelka did. And you're kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't because if, if, say, in game seven of his, I always ask, how am I going to feel about this in game seven of a Stanley Cup final? In game seven of a Stanley Cup final, if the goalie says they're not going to blow the

whistle, he gets hit in the face, that is not a good outcome. and I always remember Zach Werenzky lying on the ice bleeding while the play went around him in that playoff game a few years ago. I admit, I don't have a great, I mean, I think you always err in for safety, or at least you should, but I could, like, Kyle, I can see the other side if, like, you know, if, you know, like, let's just say we're in game Saturday. of a Stanley Cup final and it's a close game. Puck goes off the goalie's mask, deflects to the opposite side.

There's a guy right there and he knocks it in and they say no goal. The other 50% of people are going to go crazy. So I don't have a great answer here, but three times in nine days, it seems to be a lot. And my question is, is this going to generate discussion? Both Stollers and Hill came out and said, this shouldn't happen, right? And you know, Vamalka and the mammoth are going to say the same thing. So you have a Players Association.

Ask your membership. How do you feel? Do you want a rule change there? Now, the goal is there's only 75 to 90 of them, right? So they don't all have votes. but and the rest of the membership holds sway. There's 700 more of those guys. But, you know, I wonder, do you look at it and say,

we like this the way it is or we want to change it? So listening to you lay all of that out, and you're right, whether you keep it the way it is and a goalie's face is exposed and play continues for a couple of beats afterwards, there's going to be an uproar of how can you let this happen what happens if they get hit in the face or the flip side you blow it right away

how can you blow it right away he's trying to get his mask off to stop play that's not right either way you've got a portion of the audience up in arms so to me if you can't avoid that part of it knowing that and going, all right, we'll take the route that at least we're looking out for the athlete safety, that I'm okay with.

I won't profess to know the inner workings of the latest technology with the round goaltender's mask. But it seems to me when they're, when they're wonder about that too, Kyle. Is there something with the masks? No, no, no. I think why they're coming off, Elliot, think about where shooters are putting the puck now. everything is over the shoulders by the years. I think that is a big, it's not about picking corners of the net.

It's by the years over the shoulders. Guys have banked on their mass, off the mass from oblique angles, right? Right, because the reverse VH is now a thing, and that's now like a good play for a shooter, because they're so accurate with their shots. That's not considered, before that was throwing the puck on net

from kind of the goal line angle. Like that was a hope, low percentage play now. For good shooters, that's like, yeah, you can score that way. I think that's part of it. But what I was getting to about the goalie's mass, I want to believe that when everything's done up properly, it's tight enough that it's very difficult for a goalie just to simply shake off. Like, you need to grab the mass to pull it off properly because it's on so snugly.

and that's what allows the safety aspects of it to benefit them. So when the strap comes undone, to me, you're already compromised. So I can understand why goalies naturally go, I need to get this off of my head because already you're potentially in danger if you take one up high there if one of the straps undone. So I'm okay leaning towards, let's make sure our goalies are looked after. understanding, as you say, one way or another, there's always going to be a part of the audience

that aren't going to be happy with the outcome. By the way, Utah, you're going to have to pay Logan Cooley. Four points in nine seconds? Four points in seven minutes and I think it was 37 seconds or something like that. I could look at my tweet, but that would be too easy a thing to do. I don't know.

I always say this, with your cornerstone players, the price never goes down. And as the price go down. Sign him for as long as you can, as soon as you can. And does the price go down in nostalgic value? seeing the Nordic and Whalers on the ice in Denver on Thursday night. So I will tell you, I have a friend who's a Nordique fan, and he called that game an abomination to me. He did not like it.

And I understand that. I get it. You know, that's time. I let him rant at me for a couple of minutes, and I was like, okay, I'm your shoulder to cry on. Let me have it. I understand. I get it.

But that looked beautiful. So I do remember there was a time in my high school where the whalers were kind of the chic team for everyone to like in the NHL. The discerning hockey fan in my high school liked the whalers. and that was one of their big that was one of their big triumphs was the 1986 Stanley Cup playoffs where they beat the Quebec Nordiques in round one as a matter of fact that was their first ever playoff victory once they made the NHL they actually made the playoffs in their first year they got wiped out by Montreal and then they didn't make it again

and the Nordic's that year were the number one team in their division, the whalers were the fourth and the Adams, I remember this very well, and that year was divisions, one played four and two played three, and the

and the whalers wiped them out in three straight games and all of the snobby hockey fans at York Mills Collegiate were like, I told you, I told you the Whalers, we're going to beat these guys. And it was, John Anderson had a huge series. And then they would actually lose the next round in a great series.

Claude Lemieux scored in overtime in game seven. They lost to the Canadians who would go on and win the Stanley Cup. So there were so many moments of that game tonight. that reminded me of 15-year-old Elliot. It was just, it was a tremendous trip of nostalgia. The uniforms looked fantastic. The, the bugs, which is the score font for both broadcasts looked fantastic. In 4K or whatever we're calling it these days, it looked fantastic.

Like, everything about it looked great, except the people who think that is an abomination. And I understand it. I have to say this, though. A couple things. First of all, big comeback by the avalanche. The hurricanes who are just coming off their first loss of the year in Vegas were playing three defensemen who had a combined seven games of NHL experience, one of whom was making his NHL debut, because, of injuries and as the avalanche stormed back in that game I thought they were going to they might

win that game like seven to four that's how bad it was going but they held on and I have to say this the Colorado broadcast all those guys that is to me the most fun broadcast in the NHL. I think those guys are hilarious. And Eric Johnson only makes them better. He's a natural. It's disgusting. What an addition. He is a natural. The one thing

I hope these guys don't hate me for this. I kind of root for about a six, seven minute span where they get like two or three bad calls against them because those guys lose their minds. And it kind of happened towards the end of regulation on Thursday. Well, you know what? At the end of regulation, I don't like to see it happen because it's too important.

But so we have the interview with Betman, as you said. And one of the things we talk about is he hates it when we pummel the officiating, right? like they always used to say like I remember I once asked someone at the NHL like which person kills you guys the most who you really grit your teeth when you hear him and it used to be Bobby Taylor on the lightning broadcasts like he would just carve the officials and it made them crazy I listen to these guys like Mark Moser just phenomenal at what he does it's it's a personal

affront to them when things don't go their way that whole broadcast loses their mind at the same time oh it was uh but that was that was just a great there was a lot of great hockey entertaining hockey

um on Thursday night a lot of high scoring games a lot of entertainment um I saw the Montreal guys they were mad at the official and what's really interesting about that is they were very public about it. Josh Anderson took a bad penalty that you can't take, frustration penalty, but you can't do it. Caulfield ripped them post game, Gallagher ripped them post game.

Marty San Luis basically came out and said, we watch video about our mistakes, so hopefully they watch video about their mistakes too. what's interesting to me about that is again to me i don't have a problem with that everybody's allowed to lose their minds once or twice a year um i always am curious about it there's this thing one ref told me you have more of a tolerance for it if it's a veteran player or a veteran team or a team that's accomplished something you know the canadians are on the way up they're going to be very good for a long time they're young let's see let's see tough third period for sam montenboe too especially with how dobbish is playing here of late

all right like dobbish got the nod the first game of the back-to-back wednesday in calgary was excellent. And then, you know, unfortunately, the power plays, of course, stacked up for Edmonton there in the third period and couldn't stop the onslaught enough. So, you know, that'll be a big conversation in Montreal as things go forward.

It's interesting. Point out quickly. I had a good chat with Jake Evans before the game Wednesday in Calgary. And he said, you know, when he first came in the league, a lot of older veterans around the room, he's going, okay, we're okay here.

We're a good team. Look at all these established guys that we've got. He goes, now he's older than most of the guys on his team, and Evans is still in his 20s. But he looks around and he goes, we've got all these young guys here, but I trust all of them. Like, I think they're all, you know,

like we've got a good group here. And he said, it's just, it's amazing going from the zone of false hope, Maybe guiding you to win some games along the way, maybe you catch a team on an off night, the early days of their rebuild to now, he's like, it's a completely different feel walking into a building going,

no, we should walk out of here with two points. Any, you know, for the most part, any building. And I'm sure that's part of the emotion too. We're going, no,

we should look at what we had done through two periods against Edmonton. We should have them. And then to have it slip away like that, that all feeds into the frustration too. Now, did you get a chance to watch any of San Jose Rangers? I was just flipping back through the highlights once I got home from all the pizza Fridge, but there's another one.

I mean, four points for Logan Cooley, but hello five points, Maclin Celebrini, including a hat trick. Oh, boy. Rangers post game, Zabinajad said, hey, was asked, any good news about the fact that after scoring one game at home you've now you got five in this one

he's like who cares we lost it's the right answer it's the right answer David Worsowski ran into the scrum or walked into the scrum and said still got my kids which was pretty funny I can't I can't believe you apologize

for that I was like oh sorry it's Ryan Rosovsky too many Worsovsky's I'm getting all their names mixed up I couldn't believe he apologized for that. I mean, it was a joke, it was funny. Number two, I think it shows that coaches, even if you're on a team that's not expected to win,

it still burns your guts out to lose. Now, if he got home and a higher power looked at him and said, you're walking that back, okay, I understand. I've been there before. I've apologized for things before, but I couldn't believe he actually. apologize for that one. That was a, that was a, that was a great game.

Just a, like, there was a lot in 1980s hockey, not just because the avalanche or the Nordigues were playing the whalers. There was a lot of 1980s hockey in this one, in this night. Fantastic. Okay, let's get on to some newsy stuff here. All right. Where do you want to go here? Adrian Kempe.

That was a feature item in the blog. So I understand Kempe, the negotiator. Negotiations were on a pause. I understand they're supposed to pick up. It's the end of October. This, I believe, was the plan. Again, you know, I watch Kempe, and on Thursday night, he played a role in the second goal for the Kings. And then Byfield set them up for the overtime winner.

And I just look at this and I say, how are the Kings not going to do this? it is i understand it's gone like i think in the beginning they were in like the nine million dollar range i understand that things are changed that's number one number two i think they wanted to see if they could get their shot at mac david that's not happening i understand the kings were one of the teams that if marner had gone to market they were prepared to go to Toronto and meet with them on July 1st, that obviously didn't happen. The Golden Knights took that off the board. So I recognize that the kings wanted to step to the plate, and they wanted to step up to

the plate with a Vladig Guerrero bat. They wanted to take some big swings. Well, okay, is there anybody left who's better than what you've already got? Is there anybody you think you can reasonably get who's better than what you already got? Now, if people want to argue with me and say, Kempi is not on the level of players like Marner or whatever, fine. You can make that argument,

but you operate with what you've got. And is it more than they wanted to pay them initially? Yes, absolutely. But you look at them and you imagine them without him. And I think he wants to stay. So the kings have some help there. But I'm just imagining if you don't keep, this guy and he walks how are you going to make yourself better now that doesn't mean you go

and you off from $11 billion but over like the overall picture is if he's not there and clearly he wants to be a king how are you making yourself better tough to do is a guy that's i mean routinely i know 28 a couple years ago but 35 41 35 last year those aren't the easiest to find. No. Scoring is the hardest thing to get, the hardest. When you already have them in house, when as you say,

wants to be there so long as the numbers add up, it's a tough one. It's not quite, you know, Caprizov, Minnesota, got to do what they got to do to keep him there, but for L.A., that would be a tough sell.

to the rest of the fan base of going, we didn't feel we could exercise all options and getting it done. That's a big piece of not only the now, but where they hope to keep going here. Yeah. Like, Ken Holland wasn't hired to rebuild. No, no, not, no.

That's not a rebuild. Those are not rebuilding moves. They're not rebuilding. moves. So that was one note. How about Vancouver, their pursuit of a center, but don't want to give up too high a price to do it. Yeah, you know, everybody's been talking about it. They've been trying for months, really trying to see what's out there. I did hear that among their conversations was they'd been asked about next year's first. It's dangerous. Number one, it's a good draft. Look, they just drafted a player Coots who made their team for a few games anyways, and they're very hopeful about him for good reason.

They could have traded that pick to Minnesota. They didn't. They kept it. And I think long term, he's given them reason to believe that was the right decision. Now, too, you know, this pick, like we said, really good draft. And also, you know, you don't know where you're going to be. and I think they also feel we added one piece, we can add another,

and I've just heard they don't want to do it. Now, I always qualify these things and don't say they're not doing it because you never know what could happen. You could be offered a player who's under team control for a long time and you could say, you know what, we do it. So I never say never. But I have heard, and the sources are quite good

that it's not something that they want to do. So so far they're holding firm, nothing has given them a reason to believe that they should do it. All right, before we get to the final thought here, Elliot, so you let off your blog and we talked about it quite a bit last pod on the danger zone that the Calgary Flames are entering

at the bottom of the West, just one win on the year. Did you happen to notice who is sitting in the basement of the East right now with just a single win through seven games? Yeah, it was the lightning.

Yeah. And the wildest thing about that for me was the turnover by Kujerov at the end of regulation that led to the winning goal. Because how many times has Kucharov had the puck late in the game

and made the play a tie game and made the play that won it for the lightning. Like you think of Ryan McDonough in the playoffs all those years ago against the Islanders. Like that is Kucharov time. He gets the puck, he finds space, and the lightning score. So to me that's so typical. of their season it's really it was jarring for me i think it was terra vinen who stripped him of the puck

it was jarring for me to see him stripped like that and chicago go the other way and score the winner um i again i i think it's early um you know i i watched what john cooper had to say post game about we did a lot of good things but our mistakes are ending up in the back of the net and we're taking a lot of bad penalties. I was like, okay, I can also see Cooper thinking it's important here while my team is struggling that I don't go clobbering these guys. I'll say this to five on five the big line

Gensel Point Kucherov is getting caved in Well they were and it was split up to start the game Thursday Yeah Point Kutrov were on different lines Where as you know Elliot When you see them and when they're going together at their best,

it's like, how could you ever possibly think of separating them? That's book volumes. They're being outscored. I think it was five to two. And not only that, but they're being out shot and outchanced pretty big. You know, sometimes when they've struggled, it's been not them. It's been kind of like everybody else. This time, it's them.

And I got to think that's just an early season thing, Kyle, but that's when I watched a little bit and I saw those, when I watched a little bit and I saw those numbers, that blew me away. I also wondered to, like Florida, when I saw them in Boston, they were kind of talking like, we're playing slow. We're playing slow. We're too slow. And I said, are you talking about speed slow or moving the puck slow? And they kind of said both. And I just wonder about Tampa too. I wonder if they think they're playing quick enough tempo.

I think it can't be really understated, not having Nick Paul out of the gate. I think that plays a role. Obviously, how effective a player he is. the slotting of everything else. I don't think that can be overlooked either. Interesting. I'm not used to seeing it with Tampa out of the gate like this. And it seemed like the seas were kind of parting a little bit

when you were trying to map out, okay, how is the Atlantic going to play out? Florida's a bit nicked up. Different in Toronto. No more Mitch Marner. Boston in a different era now with all the players that are no longer there anymore. or was it perhaps for the lightning to grab hold of? Certainly hasn't been the case out of the gate here the first couple of weeks of the season.

All right, that'll bring us to the final thought. And, Elliot, there was an absolute whopper of a story in the National Basketball Association that dropped on Thursday morning involving names like Chauncey Billups and Terry Rozier is kind of the two main characters here, the FBI involved, things like insider information on NBA players for illegal betting purposes, high stakes poker fixing, money laundering, fraud, conspiracy, all of it. And you may be wondering, well, why are you bringing that up here?

This is a hockey podcast after all. Well, Elliot, as we have seen over the last few years, with the legalization of sports gambling in many more parts of North America. The NHL has been caught up in a story or two. There's the Shane Pinto case from a couple of years ago. But where was your mind at as you were seeing all the stuff with this NBA story unfold this morning and how it could pertain to the NHL? Well, I was blown away by the story.

Every time a detail came out, it was a bigger and bigger and bigger, wow. And one of the things I often look is when a story like, this breaks for the first time, you always think, like, what else is out there? What are the reporters not know yet or not able to report yet that they still know or they're going to find out? Like, it's almost like there's a flood and then it's drip, drip, drip, drip, drip. So if you're the NBA and your other leagues, you've got to be there thinking, what's next? Like, what else is out there that we have to be prepared for? and you know it's not the same as the as the Pinto story in the sense that you know Pinto got in trouble for proxy betting using his friends to bet his friends having access to his account to bet things like that and it's not like basically we'll get to the poker stuff in a second but the basically what they were going

after people like Terry Rozier and Damon Brown for were manipulating prop bets like I'm going to leave the game early so bet the under and apparently in some of these cases the assistant coach is being accused of letting people know that guys were injured

and they weren't going to play and it wasn't public yet adjust the lines accordingly right and you know batman's answer and I thought more about it during the day I think he has a fair point. I think hockey, those kinds of totals are harder to manipulate than basketball

because the sport is much more random and it's much harder to control. But, you know, if a player wanted to tell people that, hey, I'm leaving a game early, take the under, it could happen. If people and not only players, but coaches wanted to tell people, hey, this guy's injured. I mean, we know how crazy these teams are about injuries, right? And reporting injuries, it could happen. And when the Pinto thing happened, they sent out a memo to the players where they talked about, these are the things you don't do.

You don't share your account. You don't place bets with third parties. if you do a prop, it's the same as betting on a hockey game, which is if you bet on a hockey game or you do a hockey prop, you're out. Don't joke about odds with friends. I remember, like they said something along the lines of, if a friend texts you and says,

you're plus 300 to score tonight, you tell them to get lost and never do that again. You don't share insight and injury information, and you don't bet illegally. And I bet they're going to remind everybody about this again. You know, Betman spoke very highly of the character

of his players in his league, and that's a smart thing to do. But, you know, you, I'm sure on some level, everybody in the NHL was like looking at the NBA and saying, thereby the grace of God, go I. And, you know,

I think if you looked at the penalty to Pinto last year, you it had to strike fear in everybody's hearts right like i remember when that happened i was getting calls from or and text from other people what did he do what did he do what did he do like people wanted to know because like i'm not a big gambler i don't sports gamble very rarely i like to play cards i'll tell you this i'm never playing cards with chauncey billups when i I saw what they were doing in those poker games. I couldn't believe it.

It was like number two in Austin Powers. I have to say, like, I was joking with some friends today. Nobody is allowed to wear glasses at a poker table anymore. And I want to know if you have any x-ray cameras. Like, I like to play cards. That's what I'd like to do. That's my gambling. But like a lot of people in sports, they like to bet on, they have pools.

They have fantasy football. They like to gamble on things. So they all were like, what on earth did he get caught for? And the thing about that, too, was the reason it ended up being 41 games and not longer was Pinto accepted he wouldn't appeal. If he hadn't agreed not to appeal, that's, Bettman would have given him a longer suspension and took his chances. So he did strike the fear of God into,

a lot of these players. But, and this will today too. Like, there's no question about them. You know, the NHL, from what I've heard, and this also came to me after we spoke to Betman today, the NHL asked two questions at

the top of a lot, whenever there's like something going on here. Number one, are you betting on hockey? Number two, are you using a bookie? Those are two things they really care about a lot. And, And because with a bookie, if you get in deep, they're worried that you become susceptible

to, hey, you want to pay back some of this money? Here's how you can help us. And so, I mean, this thing today, you know, like I said, I thought Batman's answer to us was good from a commissioner point of view, but there isn't a league around here that's at any level, top to bottom, that's not going to be looking at this and saying, thank God that wasn't us, what do I have to worry about? What do I need to know? And let's clamp down and see if there's anything we need to know about here.

And I'm sure all the players are looking at this, like, that's the consequence if I do something wrong. like Chauncey Billups Like you read some of the news stories today He is Like in one of these cases It sure looks like They don't name who the person is they're talking about But there's a lot of circumstantial evidence

That it's Billups telling someone He's not going to play his best roster In a game And they don't beat the spread Chauncey Billups is a and is a current coach in the league like a head coach he was the MVP of an NBA final 2004 it was a big upset Pistons over the Lakers

just in Detroit a few weeks ago right still see his image all over Little Caesar Arena I mean that's cool he deserved it and he's in the Hall of Fame like if half of this stuff is true look at what the consequences are he's going to face he's never going to be in the league like you're reading all this stuff and it's like you're wondering could they take him out of the hall of fame is he ever going to be in the league again like it's massive so i think one of the best things that almost happened is he ever going to be in the league again like it's massive so

I think one of the best things that almost happens to a league like the NHL is the players and the coaches they see the consequence and they're like okay if I'm in anything anywhere close to this

I'm getting out now always the question is this worth it in the end is this worth it Kyle what does you think watching all this today Listen, so I grew up in an era where my generation in a lot of ways was we were the guinea pigs for a lot of stuff technology-wise, social media-wise, that's now just here. A lot of years growing up, we were like, this is all new now.

Hey, have you heard of this website called YouTube? Hey, are you on Facebook yet? Hey, I just downloaded this new app. It's called Instagram. You should check it out. Hey, what's a tweet? Why do we need Twitter when we all have Facebook? Why are we on Twitter now?

All of that was through very impressionable years of life, right? As a teenager, young adult, all that stuff. Now you've got this next generation that's growing up with easily accessible gambling options, right? You don't have to leave your house. don't have to leave your house. It's all right here in the palm of your hand. That's my only concern as we navigate through all of this and try to ensure, of course, we're talking the grand scheme of things

of integrity, a professional sport, and the amount of money that's at stake up there. But with now this new generation, and they've very much been the guinea pigs of, hey, log on now and how easy it can be to then get down that rabbit hole of gambling on anything, whether it's sports or otherwise. That's kind of where my mind goes with all of this. And potentially what the consequences could be 10 years from now, 20 years from now, as it becomes more and more part of everyday life.

I don't know if that exactly wraps back to what specifically happened here in this NBA story, Friege. But that was one thought that I had. You know what that is, Kyle? That's the answer of a parent. And that's what you and I now have in common. We're both parents. Your son's a lot younger than mine is. He's 14 now.

And I think about this kind of stuff. You know, one thought I had, and I'm not sure that this is the right podcast to do it, but here it goes. It kind of ties into what you're talking about there. We've given in to all of our vices, like as a society. You walk around, I don't know if your neighborhood's anything like mine, but you walk around, and there's like, on every other corner, there's a cannabis store.

And I remember the first time when my son was very young, he asked, you know, Daddy, what's that? And kind of having to figure out how I was going to explain it to him. and the only thing you can do in these cases because the young kids are bombarded with this stuff is educate and you know the thing I would say I always say is never bet you can't afford to lose and I'm very careful about that or a number that you're not comfortable losing like never go into that space and I've been very good at avoiding that and I try to teach that lesson. But the other thing, too, I really talk about now and this is the kind of thing

that you can really show people is, you know, the reputational damage. We talked about Billups, Basketball Hall of Famer, look at so highly respected, look at everything you can lose. And I think that's the kind of thing that can really scare people straight. Now, I think there's a lot of people out there who are kind of like, that's never going to happen to me, that's someone else's problem, that won't happen to me, but I have no doubt that there will be people out there who look at this, and if they kind of forgot in the aftermath of Pinto, they'll be reminded in the aftermath of this, because this isn't over. this is going to keep going and you just hope that people get scared straight by seeing it that they don't get caught up in it

and I guarantee to you the leagues are thinking that way too that if we can't teach people about the dangers or warn people enough about the dangers this will show them the true consequences it's all you can do it's all I can do But yeah, that was the other thought I had this morning going, how many sleepless nights do, executives and other sports or commissioners going,

geez, I hope I don't get that phone call in the morning. Well, it's like, it's like you just, you just, you just never assume it stops at one, right? Yeah, exactly. What else is out there? Oh, boy. Okay, that was the final thought. A bit of a different one this week, but a good one nonetheless.

Let's take our first break. We'll come back with The Thought Line. 32 Thoughts the podcast continues after this. Okay, welcome back. Here we go again. Another edition of The Thought Line, Elliot. I have to start by sharing. sharing a story. So I'm working the Calgary Montreal game on Wednesday night and got a chance to meet a loyal listener, Darian, who also was a Flames fan. And he introduced himself and he goes, hey, love the podcast. You and Dom do great work. And then he just stopped talking. And it was fantastic. And then at the end, he goes, and the other guy too, the other guy too. It was so good.

The other guy, too. Yeah. That's fantastic. I got to give the guy credit because clearly he was prepared. If he ever ran into you, he had it all planned out what he was going to say, how he was going to say it, and the excellent use of pregnant pauses. Oh, it was expert delivery. It was expert delivery. I have a couple things for you.

I have a couple things for you. So I was in Boston on Tuesday, Monday and Tuesday for the Brad Marchand return. Beautiful couple days there. Boston, one of the great walking cities in the U.S. Spent about a couple hours on Tuesday just walking around the city and loved it. But a couple of people I ran into, and one of them, Mick Collagio, who covered the Bruins for a long time and a longtime listener of this pod, he wanted to give you a compliment. and Mick is a retired tennis umpire he used to umpire tennis and he said there was one time on this pod that um you knew what was it the six seven nine the the tennis rule do you remember what that was you knew balls yes yes so he was incredibly impressed that you knew the six seven nine

tennis rule for new balls says you nailed it and he wanted to pass that on to you about how like literally kyle that's the only impressive thing you've done in your entire life but he wanted to make sure you got the compliment put it on the tombstone they can never take that away from me can never take that away from you and the other thing i wanted to do was um i remember when we were at the four nations uh you said hi to uh bell fraser at one time um she used to cover Utah and now she's back in Boston and she's working for the Bruins and she said that her dad, John, is a big fan of the pod. So I wanted to shout out John. And I also wanted to say, John, you did a great job raising your daughter. She's a future star in this business. She does

great work. Absolutely. That's great. How cool is that? Sounds like a productive few days for each. Well done. It's nice to know that people will still talk to you. I'm trying my best to change that. Okay, this is a fun one to start. Patrick from Conception Bay South Newfoundland. All right. Dear Dom and supporting cast, with the reemergence of Anonymous,

I thought it best to reach out to regale you with details of a harrowing encounter. Oh, goodness. This summer, I attended the Alex Newhook Golf Classic Fan Fest, hosted by the microphone with muscles, David Amber. Waiting in line for autographs from the likes of Newhook, Struble, Dobish, Jack Eye, Pizzetta, and Chris Knuckles Nyland, the host and suspect in question walked towards me, heading to the stage for the night's Q&A. Our eyes met, I puffed out my chest, stepped into his path and roared,

be honest, you're anonymous. I could see the rage in his eyes as he vehemently denied the accusation. Alas, my investigation had failed. Disclaimer, there may have been some salt and pepper to this story of what was a pleasant exchange and a chuckle from Mr. Amber. I concede Anonymous may be B.XA. Keep up what will one day potentially be great work. There's a lot in that note I really liked, including what will eventually be great work. work. So Amber actually texted me from that event and said, there's some guy who just came up and

asked me if I was the anonymous caller. And I think he wrote, you guys have to solve this. I'm tired of getting asked about it. So when Patrick says that Amber was a little bit annoyed, I could totally believe it because he does hate getting asked it. So it's funny, Patrick, I did hear about this at the time. I'm now convinced it's BXA after that last email. or after his last message that definitely fit with his cadence and tone but I want to say

thank you very much for being loyal to the cause and accosting Dave Amber in the moment at a golf tournament and I will say this I give everybody listening to this podcast permission

if you ever run into Dave Amber in public you are more than allowed to ask him if he's the anonymous caller Yes so good as a matter of fact i will be disappointed if you don't ask him that's how that's how you should acknowledge him before you ask by the way did you did you see the segment he did uh you were working ringside calgary montreal the segment he did with the microphone the jean raver and mike from match game the bob barker going yes yeah look great that was uh he's had that for a couple

weeks now he's been doing that i you know what i've been i haven't seen a lot of the wednesday well when i did it he didn't have it that wasn't the case then so i think i was away last week i didn't get a chance to see it so yeah you typically don't like watching dave what's that you typically don't like watching dave unlike the commissioner i'm not watching hockey yeah yes uh that was uh it was very good it was i was waiting for him to remind us to have your pets spade and neutered at some point at the end there, which is great. All right, we have a voicemail here. This is not the anonymous caller, but from an anonymous caller. An anonymous caller, okay. Hey guys, love the podcast. I'm sitting here watching the Islanders versus San Jose

Sharks game and the puck went in the net. It seemed before the whistle had blown and it It seems like they went to the San Jose bench to ask them if they wanted to challenge, and then the refs took a look at it anyway, I guess, just to confirm if it was a goal. This also happened on Matthew Schaefer's first goal as well. It wasn't considered a challenge by the coach. It was a review. My question is, what determines if the coach is able to just ask the league to look at it? How does that work?

Does the league fall down to the referees? Just wanted to get your opinion on that. Thanks, guys. Okay, Anonymous, I have to say, it is always weird when someone says they're anonymous and uses their real voice because someone's going to say, I know that person. But Anonymous, it's a good question, and here's the answer. All goals are reviewed, all of them, to make sure they entered the net in a legal fashion. Like they weren't illegally kicked in or punched in with a glove or anything like that. so sometimes you will see reviews and the coaches haven't asked for them and it's simply because

the league is reviewing to make sure the puck entered the net legally like the coaches are allowed to ask for the challenge on goal 10 interference offside and puck over glass if to determine the puck left the ice cleanly and puck over glass is a bit different because you can't do it to add a penalty to another team. You can only do it to take off a penalty on your team if you think the puck touched something on the way out. So those are the video review. But every goal is reviewed.

And oftentimes you don't even notice that they're reviewing it because it's obvious. The puck went in perfectly cleanly. But when you see situations like that, when the referees or officials are going to the bench and there's a delay and nobody's asked for it, It's because the league is saying, we're not sure the puck entered the net legally and we're checking. It's like in the NFL, they always review every touchdown to make sure they entered the end zone properly.

The NHL does that with every goal. And they can also challenge for missed stoppages in the office zone. Thank you for reminding me. I forgot about that one. That was the bit that came after the Sharks and Blues in 2019. Right. And then it can get confusing because, you know, for example, if a player deflex a puck with a high stick and goes right in, that's not something that can challenge, but it can be reviewed for a high stick. The officials can look at it to determine if it was legal or not.

However, if a player knocks down a puck with a high stick, the puck goes to a teammate and they shoot it in the net. Well, now that can be a coach's challenge because they can say that was a misstopping. where a play was knocked down with a high stick and then touch next by the team on offense or by the same team. So anyway, it can get a little confusing at times, but yes, off sides, goalie interference, puck over glass, missed stoppages in the offensive zone, those little hallmarks of the coach's challenge. Very good. But basically anonymous, every goal gets reviewed. So that's why sometimes you see it without a challenge. Okay, from Owen, gentlemen, Elliot.

Gosh, you're getting just crushed here. Tough crowd. Yeah, pummeled. I was watching the Brad Marchand tribute, and it's hard to blame him for shedding some tears, but it got me thinking, are there rules about what time of game those videos can be shown? If I were the Bruins, I might have waited for a key moment in the third period and then played it.

Maybe it threw Marchand off his game. Anything to win. I think he'd respect it. Keep up the good work. Sincerely, Bennett Seneca's number one fan. He's off to a good start. Looks like a player for Anaheim. That's a girl.

That's hilarious. I don't think there's any rules. Yeah, okay, there isn't. So you checked. basically it's just get it out of the way quick right um sometimes i wonder if teams would do it before puck drop like just do it right away but as we've talked about before there are rules for what time the puck is supposed to drop at these games um especially you know whether it's national tv regional tv or anything like that generally though the first timeout of the game which is

the first non-icing whistle after 14 minutes is when it gets done. So it's become pretty standardized, although as Kyle says, it's not a rule. I love the idea, though, Owen. Very good. You know, it would be funny because you're sitting there

and you're like, are they ever going to do something for this guy? And now all of a sudden it's two, too close game. Let's put it on. It can't even function properly. That's pretty funny, I got to say. I like that. So oftentimes, I mean, teams will talk to each other, especially when you have a player of Marshaun's stature coming back to Boston,

it's like, okay, what makes sense for everybody? And more often than not, as you say, it's after that first commercial break in the first period. There were two examples in Montreal in particular, Saku-Kouyev's first game back, P.K. Sub-Band's first game back, those were worked into right around when the anthems happened. So as you wondered about, there have been examples of even before the game starts doing the tribute then, and then it's out of the way.

But it's totally at the team's discretion. And more often than not, I would say, the bigger the name returning, the earlier those tributes get done and out of the way. Got it. All right. One final one here, Elliot, Mike from Buffalo. Hey, guys, with Nick Schmaltz getting the first Utah hat trick on home ice for the mammoth, it made me wonder who has the most hat tricks on whole mice,

making them the king of the hats and who has the most road hat tricks making them the hat saviour. Well, one of these has to be Gratzky. Yeah, this I was hoping this was going to elicit

a more exciting answer. Not just one, both answers are Wayne. These both? He hogged both of them. 31 hat tricks on home ice, 19 on the road. All right, let's play for second. in here. Okay. So, second most hat-trics.

Maurice Richard. No. Okay. Um, Gila Fleur. No. This guy was known as a goal score, though. Phil Esposito?

He's fourth at home with 20. Oh, Mike Bossy? Bingo. 25. Okay. So Bossy, second most hat tricks at home. Okay.

25 to Gretzky's 31. Now, and I just realized, second on the road, we haven't guessed it yet here, but they're actually tied with Gretzky for most road hat tricks. Gretzky is 19. So they're not second on the road. But they're tied for first.

Yes. Okay, and I hadn't named them yet? Correct. You have not. Is it Ovechkin? No, he's fourth. 16. Lemieux.

Yes. Excellent. Well done. Probably took too long to guess them anyway. Yeah, but sometimes it's one of those too obvious to be that guy, right? Kind of deals. No, not for Hattress, I don't think. It's a good question.

question, Mike. Thank you. And I like the spin you put on it. But yeah, Gretzky hogged that one as well. All right, that was the thought line, 1833, 311, 3232. And as always, you can email us as well at 32 Thoughts at Sportsnet.ca. We'll take another break and come back with our interview with the commissioner of the NHL, Gary Bettman, on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Stay tuned. All right. As promised, our conversation with the Commissioner of the National Hockey League, Gary Bettman. We get to a handful of front burner issues and topics going on around the National Hockey League and sports at the moment. We talk international hockey a little bit, what his future looks like. And also a question I'm sure that's on everybody's mind, what does a typical day look like for the commissioner of the NHL?

No sense wasting any more time. Let's get right to it now. Gary Bettman on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. So please to be joined by the Commissioner of the National Hockey League, Gary Bettman. Commissioner, welcome back to 32 thoughts. How are you doing today? I'm doing great. It's good to be with you. I'm always amazed that you guys can so frequently come up with 30. 32 different thoughts. One of the reasons I think it might be good to expand is you'd have to come up with more thoughts. That's why you shouldn't expand.

That's going to say, yeah. No expansion announcements, nothing changed. I was making a poor joke. The first thing I wanted to ask you, there was a big story this morning that broke in the NBA about Chauncey Billups and Terry Rozier. And I'm just wondering, when that happens, I figure you're on the phone right away with your security people and you're asking what is going on here and do I have anything to worry about? Is that the way it goes? Well, not quite. Obviously, security and integrity are paramount, but we just don't react to an article on something else that's going on or a news story on something else that's going on because we're,

vigilant every day. Having said that, as soon as it came out, I touched base with Jared Maples to make sure we could learn everything there was to learn. But again, our vigilance and the importance of the integrity of the game is something that is a daily task for all of us, and something that I have complete confidence in terms of players and everybody else associated with the game. We had a situation a couple years ago. where a player was suspended. Since that, have you ever seen anything that made you think that this could ever be more of a problem? The fact is the incident we had had nothing to do with betting on hockey.

And again, I really have confidence in our game, the integrity of our game, and the integrity that our players and all of our personnel bring to the game. And, you know, if you look at the nature of our game, it's not really susceptible to outside influences. And our players play hard and play to win every night. So the answer is we know we have to be very mindful and we can't take anything for granted. but I have confidence in what we do. Can I just ask, Commissioner, on that note, I mean, when sports gambling became legalized

in more and more places became more easily available, I mean, it seemed like the Wild West. I just wonder, can you give us a peek behind the curtain in terms of how much time, resources, effort goes in behind the scenes to continue to ensure, as you say, feel confident about where things are at with your players and everyone involved with the game? Well, two things.

I think I was on record for decades as opposing sports betting, but it became a reality. So the commercial relationships we have are simply no different than what the other sports league do and a function of the fact that the reality is sports betting is now legal. But we devote considerable time, money, and effort and personnel to making sure we're monitoring that's going on. What's going on? And we use resources to monitor everything that goes on in all of our games. And if something were to look askew, we would obviously follow up. And to the extent there's ever been a question or an allegation, we look into it.

All right. So I mentioned to someone, a friend of mine, that we were doing this interview today. And he said, you know what I want to know about the commissioner? What's his day like? So what time do you wake up? This is it. Yeah, sure it is. What time do you wake up? I typically get up around 6.30. I walk dogs, start my day by picking up after them and feeding. them. How many dogs you have? Two. And what are their names and what are they? They are golden doodles. One's a 60-pounder and one's a 30-pounder. Nice. Teddy and Piper.

I don't take any credit for having named them. They're great dogs. We actually had a 70-pound first-generation golden noodle. We had had dogs forever. But we about, I don't know,

now it's 20, 25 years ago, got her first golden doodle, and she was wonderful. She lasted 15 years, which is unusual for a dog that's 70 pounds. But they're great dogs, and that's how I start my day. A couple of times a week I have a trainer that I work out with, and then I come into the office, and my day starts with meetings or phone calls or interviews. And somehow the day seems to fill itself up with a lot of things I never anticipated when the day started. But that's why I love what I do, because it's interesting, it's stimulating, and it's fun on an important level, including the fact that, you know, if I'm not going to a game, I go home and I'm watching the games and surfing around and just keeping track of what's going on and enjoying what I think is the world's best sport. so you mentioned a couple days a week you have a trainer what is the gary betman workout you know you

know we we don't have to go into that it involves it involves weight and at my advanced age or aging it involves stretching which is something that when i was younger i was never very good at it's never too late to start that's right the way yes it is it should have started a long time ago it is too late but I'm doing the best I can okay well then I'll ask you this at this stage how many games a week do you at least plug into a portion of whatever's on I'm surfing through or watching you know depending on how many games I have I have a room where I have three screens that I can more than three I can't concentrate on at the same same time. But I have a room that has three screens. And sometimes if I'm not in that room and

I'm a different room in the house, I'll use the remote and bounce around. Jim Houston had a great line that if you were bouncing back from game to game, you see a little bit of everything and a whole lot of nothing. Well, but you know what? Sometimes when you watch enough games, and I guess I have over more than three decades, you kind of get a feel for how the game is going, and you tend to bounce a little bit better in terms of catching the action. So one of the questions I wanted to ask you about that was there was a time in my career where I was told that you don't really know how often the commissioner will call and say, I didn't like that, or I wish you guys wouldn't hammer that, or I can't believe this guy said

that how often do you call the networks and say what are you guys doing here i i don't if if the suggestion is i'm either micromanaging or trying to direct that would be a vast overstatement probably in in years past more frequently than now at this point it's it's got to be something outrageous where I can't believe somebody said or did something. But as a general tendency, if there's something that we're seeing repetitively and we think the game could be enhanced by, or the coverage of the game could be enhanced by making a change, then I would lob in a suggestion. But I'm something like I'm sitting there, you know, trying to beat people up or change the fact that you guys and your colleagues are professionals and I know you're bringing

your best every night. But, you know, I keep notes. And so the feedback I give is rarely instantaneous. Well, one of the things I know that does upset you from time to time is when we're too hard on the officials. You're very protective of them. No, well, they deserve to be protected because they do a great job. And the fact of the matter is they have the hardest officiating job in all the sports. And I don't care what anybody says. If we got rid of the 100 refs and lines people we have now, the next 100 wouldn't be as good. They are the absolute best in the world. Now, this is a game of human elements. Coaches make mistakes, players make mistakes. Occasionally, the officials will make a mistake either with a call or a non-call,

but they don't get enough credit for how good they are. Now, having said that, when you look at the body of work and what they do, okay, if they make a mistake, there are two issues with that from my standpoint. One, sometimes they get criticized for making a mistake that they didn't make. In fact, they were right. And that one is, you know, somebody who's covering the game suggesting and, you know, beating the point that they made a mistake when, in fact, either it was the right call when you looked at it carefully on review or whoever was criticizing them really didn't know the rule. That's one issue. It doesn't happen a lot, but it does. And secondly, okay, there's a call. You agree, you disagree, it was good, it was bad. Move on. That

dominates the game. Each official in the course of a game probably has, I don't know, a hundred situations where they're either making a call or a non-call, but they have to make a decision. Okay, they make one. You agree, you disagree, move on. Don't let it define the game because it rarely does. The game's won and lost by the players and the coaches. Emotion's always good, though. It is good. Yes, I like emotion, but let's not beat a dead horse. Okay. So the news this week that there's not going to be an Olympic-type send-off event on Long Island in 26, traditional All-Star format will return there in 27. I'm wondering, Gary, what sort of concepts, ideas were kind of bounced around within the league about what you could have done with the players before they go. It's really, we want the Islanders to be able to host the NHL family and fans and sponsors and guests. for an All-Star weekend.

What it exactly looks like in a year and a half, we're still going to work on. Right now, we're more focused on getting the players off to Milan. And that's the reason we decided to do nothing because it became increasingly clear to us that whatever we were going to put on, everybody who was participating this year of this season would have been distracted.

And so, you know what, we recognize how important going to the Olympics is for the roughly 150 players that are going to be going. So we decided, let's let them focus on what they really want to focus on. And then we'll put together a really nice All-Star weekend for the following season. Okay. Commissioner, one of my highlights, whenever you get together with the media, Pierre always asks you, how long are you going to be commissioner and you rip you rip them right back well i do it for fun i'm not sensitive to the point and and since he's not on he's not on this call i assume you're doing this as his surrogate um no i no but here's the thing here this is the way i was going to try

it do you without asking because i know you won't say it but do you have a date in your mind no I mean I plan on being around for a while so you know I'm not as we sit here today focused on a date there will come a date because that is just the circle of life and when that date comes around I'll first make sure that the owners who I work for directly and I and the rest of the organization are in sync, and then we'll make an announcement. But this isn't something that I'm obsessed with. I realize Pierre might be, and maybe you, Elliot now, to a lesser extent, but it's not something that is in my daily repertoire of thoughts, 32 or otherwise.

Well, it's amazing. I heard you point out in a recent interview that I think outside of Detroit, Boston, Chicago, and some of them were kind of, you know, the family generations from one to the next, all the other owners have only known you as the commissioner. And I wonder how often they ask you about how long you want to keep doing this.

No, I mean, I think on some level, I've been here so long, and it's people just assume I'm here. I don't think this is a driving issue at this point in time. It will be at some point. And listen, with all the things that I'm charged with doing or that any CEO of an organization in charge with doing, one of the things that a CEO and a board have to focus on for the long term at some point is an orderly succession. But that's just part of running an organization.

And I assure you we'll have a process, and there'll be at some point a structure, a date, a time, and hopefully it will be orderly and sensible. What's something you're working on right now that's big for the NHL that nobody knows about? Well, if nobody knew about it, I wouldn't want to let them know about it because, obviously, we're not ready to announce it. But as a general matter, listen, we had a big announcement earlier this week with respect to the predictive market. The appalling market. And nobody knew we were working on that. We're focused on things we need to be doing internationally to a greater extent.

and we're always focused on technology and media. So at 10,000 feet, that's what's going on. But again, on a day-to-day basis, it's about the games and making sure everything that's going on, on the ice and around the ice, is being taken care of. That's something we never take for granted. That is, as we discussed early on with respect to integrity issues,

that is something that you must make sure, every waking minute of every day is taken care of. Okay, so I wanted to follow up on a couple things there. Number one, the polymarket deal, which I saw the interview on CNBC the other night. This is something I'm trying to learn a lot more about. It's very big and I don't know that I completely understand it yet. How would you explain it to people and why was it important for the NAs? to do this. Well, okay, a couple of things. The difference between what calls your

polymarket or really what the prediction market is about is it's one-on-one. People are basically contracting on a binary answer, yes or no. And that's different than setting odds and having a house involved with respect to betting. It's going on, much like sports betting with the traditional gambling online presence, it's reality. What this enables us to do is focus on what is going on so we can keep track of it from an integrity standpoint. And at the same time, make sure we have control over actually causing to be removed things that we don't think would be desirable contracts to be made. You know, if somebody said, yes or no and and and the contracts are aligned on a particular topic that we didn't think was

appropriate it could be removed and would be that's part of the control we have so yes it's another way for our fans to interact with the game if they want to they don't have to but it also gives us more control over and over what is apparently an emerging market the second one is you talked about international hockey there. The NHL hired, I guess, a consultant, an expert. There was a, there was a big, I guess, a report given at the Board of Governors last year at the draft, and now you have some decisions to make about, do you go to some of the same places?

Do you go to some new places? What's the league thinking there, and do you have a preference? Well, the answer is it's not. Either or. To the extent there are countries and markets that are very hockey-centric. We want to continue to nurture that, in part because there are a lot of fans there and we can continue to grow the game. And in part because, you know, a third of our players come from outside of North America in those countries. And we want to continue to encourage the development of world class players who come from outside of North America. America because the best hockey players in the world playing the NHL, which is the best hockey league in the world. But there are what I'll call emerging hockey markets where if we wanted to devote more time, energy, effort, and money, we can grow those markets as well.

And part of the update for the board was to make sure we were all aligned that we were going to be making investments, which in the short term may not pay off, but for the long term, we'll grow the game in more places and make the game stronger worldwide. And that's the focus. There are a country there that maybe we're not thinking about that could host NHL games? No, it's more than just hosting NHL games, Elliot. It's really about creating an infrastructure at the grass roots, having a continuous presence. You know, putting on events is a part of what you do to grow the game, but there are a whole host of things that you need.

If you're going to do something more than just have games, which for the long term doesn't really grow the game to the extent as creating an infrastructure would. And there are countries that have hockey, but not to the same extent as, say, Finland or Sweden. And so we're going to be looking at countries that have a hockey interest to start and see about growing the game there. And then we'll, you know, years out, as that's working and we think we're comfortable with the way we're approaching it, we can probably go to what you would call a non-traditional hockey market and see what we can do there.

I believe in the strength of the game, and I believe it can with the right infrastructure, which includes ranks, be strong anywhere it is. And by the way, we prove that in North America, right? Places that people now take for granted as being hockey markets 20, 30 years ago, people were scratching their heads and saying, how could that be possible, but it was. But that goes back to the strength of the game and how wonderful our players are and how entertaining they in our game are. Okay, so we're really fortunate that have passionate, creative listeners who are hockey fans at their base.

A number of them wrote in some really cool ideas about potential international events, including hub cities, multiple teams being hosted at once for a slew of regular season games. One day, could you ever foresee something like that happen? You know, the answer to a question like that is we're always open to ideas and we'll consider and internally debate everything. If you have a list of those suggestions from your fans and listeners, forward them on to me. Maybe it will be something we've never even thought of.

You're in trouble now. And I love getting fan feedback. So, you know, you got a list. Share it, please. Okay. So I wanted to ask about our country, Gary, Canada. There are a lot of Canadian fans, you know, they love hockey. They're the backbone of the NHL.

No Stanley Cup in 30 plus years. That's not under your control. But the tax thing really bothers. them it bothers them and they feel that it's not getting proper the tax the tax thing is a red herring the players don't go to a place because of the taxes if all things were being equal that might be a factor but a player wants to go to a place where he wants to live if he's got a family raises kids he wants to go to an organization that he has confidence in that that that he believes he'll be well taken care of by. He wants to go to a place where he'll have great

teammates and he can win. And if all of those things are equal and they never are, then maybe in terms of the economics, they'll look at the taxes. But by the way, the taxes in New York, the taxes in California, I mean, nobody talked about taxes for the 20 or so years that the teams in Florida were very good. Okay? And I think it's a little bit of an insult to what was accomplished and has been accomplished in Tampa or in South Florida or Vegas to suggest that because of taxes they've won. Taxes are an issue in lots and lots of places. And by the way, you know, there are players who just resigned in all places of Winnipeg or Edmonton and taxes weren't in issue. It ultimately comes down to where a player thinks he can have success playing and wants to be living.

But when, like, a guy like Marchand comes out and says taxes. Well, you know what? He didn't stay in Florida because of the taxes, and he didn't go to Florida because of the taxes. Is he happy that he's paying less taxes? Absolutely. But he stayed in Florida because he had fun. They won the cup. He likes his new teammates.

and he likes living in South Florida, although understandably, I think he was recently quoted as saying when he retires, he's going to go back to live in Boston. Okay, it is overblown, overstated, and I think hugely unfair and inaccurate to be focused on that issue.

Okay, Commissioner, you're coming up on 33 years in the role. What do you remember about when you first took the job and what you had hoped, to set out to accomplish and how does that compare with how the league looks now? When I started 33 years ago

the first thing that was in my mind was I had a lot of work to do. There were a lot of things that I thought we were capable of as a league and as a sport that weren't being realized and we needed

broader media exposure. We needed, both in Canada and the U.S. We needed a better economic system with the players, better relationship with the union. Some of these tasks took longer to accomplish than others. But it was really, we needed a stronger foundation in order to grow the sport. And I believe that we could grow and grow dramatically if we had the right foundation in place. And that's what I was focused on. Okay. Here's the last one for me. It comes from a friend of mine who does a lot of business deals. What is the best restaurant in North America to get a business deal done in? I don't even know how to answer that question. The fact is you want a place that's quiet enough to

talk because if you're making a business, deal, and you're having the conversation. Sometimes the nuance of what's being said in negotiation is important. And so you want to go to a place where you can not be distracted by the environment and where the food's pretty good. And there are lots of places in virtually every city, certainly, where we have teams where you could do that. Okay, then I'm going to change it slightly. Gell us a story about a great business deal you closed over dinner. Well, no.

We, we, we, uh, I, I once took someone to a place where I thought they needed to be distracted by the food and the noise and the reputation of the restaurant. So we took the person there and got them appropriately distracted and made the deal, you know, somebody may figure out what I'm talking about if you go back to the history of things that have been reported on. But more importantly, to me, when you're going to make a deal, you want to get it right. You want to dot the eyes, you want to cross the T's, and you want to make it a win-win for both sides. And you need to understand not just your own needs, but the person

you're negotiating these needs as well. And that's how we deal gets made. And it's not about the food and it's not about the restaurant. It comes down to communications and respect and trust. Excellent. Hey, we really appreciate the time today here, Commissioner. Always nice to hear from you. Thank you for your coming on.

It's always great to be with you guys. I think you do an amazing job and keep coming up with those 32 thoughts because they're all good ones. Now that's a lie. Our thanks once again to Commissioner Bettman and the NHL for helping make that happen for us here today. All right, before we go, I wanted to give you a heads up

and just a little lay of the land about what's going on across the network this weekend. It's a little different for all the right reasons with the Toronto Blue Jays in the World Series in games one and two from Toronto today and Saturday. So Friday night, the Leafs are in Buffalo. can be seen nationally on SportsNet 1 Hockey Central pregame show gets you set at 6.30 Eastern, 3.30 Pacific. Then on Saturday, where things get a little unique because of the circumstances.

It's the return matchup of the home and home between the Sabres and Leafs. Hockey Central Saturday earlier this week. 4.30 Eastern, 130 Pacific on SportsNet 1. Ron McClain & Company, the usual tee-up to Saturday's slate of games. Leafs and Sabres at 5 Eastern. not the traditional 7 o'clock, 5 o'clock this Saturday from Toronto. That will be exclusively on SportsNet 1. The other two early matchups still at the traditional 7 Eastern 4 Pacific start time,

including the All-Canadian Clash, Montreal, in Vancouver. That can be seen on CBC and Omni. And the Ottawa senators are in Washington to face the caps, also at 7ET on SportsNet 360. The night cap this week, Edmonton and Seattle, on SportsNet CBC and SportsNet 1, a little after 10 Eastern 7 Pacific. You got it? Very good.

All right. Now, before we get to today's music, I want to give a shout out to listener of the pod, Dave in Langley, BC, who came up with the suggestion and wrote in saying, Love and the Canadian artist being featured at the ends of the pod. he suggested it would be great to have a playlist available to easily listen to keep up with and support the artists that we've had featured. So, shout out producer Dom

who has already gone ahead and put together 32 thoughts, The Music. That's the name of the playlist that can be found on Spotify and with each track that we feature as the weeks go on here, you will be able to find them on that playlist. list on Spotify. Great idea by Dave and Langley, the Flames fan, Fridge. Nice. Great job, Dave. Thank you. Okay. Taking us out today, a track by Connor Nelson,

who is an independent pop artist from Vancouver, BC. His music was recently featured in Netflix's number one original series, Ginny and Georgia, earning him chart placements on Shazam in nine countries while breaking into the top 100 on Shazam Australia Pop with radio support from CBC Radio 1 and editorial features from Tidell, Spotify, and Apple Music. Connor recently released his self-written, co-produced debut EP Red Mountain Light. Here is Connor Nelson and Paranoia on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. a mistake it's been two weeks and you don't look at me the same

pacing round my room at night hit the road to clear my mind I thought we were on the same page I wish I never said I love you didn't say it back Suddenly everything's changing Super sweet, now you're a bracelet I wish that it was a way to make you forget I wish that you could say it's on my head Suddenly everything's different

Paranoia got me thinking Maybe you won't be better if it just left I wish that I could say it's on my head My head I used to think I're lifting your mind but you said his name when you should have said mine and now you got me questioning when you see me do you see him

I thought you were the love of my life no I wish I never said I love you didn't say it back suddenly everything's changing Super sweet now you're a brazen I wish there was a way to make you forget I wish it could say it's all in my head Suddenly everything's different

Paranoia got me thinking Maybe it would be better if I just laughed I wish that I could say it telling my head Suddenly everything's Friday flight Tickle when I lies every little thing you criticize I'm only ever good enough that fits where you decide I can feel my defense mechanism And feel it's starting, are kicking, I'll push it in to overdrive.

Everything you say is just so incoherent, living in denial in your atmosphere is killing me, but although it's better than admitting, suddenly everything's changing. Oh, oh, oh, oh, how, I'm paranoid about what you're thinking. If I just left, would everything be better if I just left?