32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Our COVID Reality

Episode Date: February 5, 2021

The NHL is reacting quickly to its COVID-19 outbreak. Jeff and Elliotte discuss (00:00) how the virus is impacting teams, protocols being implemented to prevent further spread and what the league might do with so many games to make up. They also check in on Pittsburgh’s GM search (20:00) and talk about Tony DeAngelo’s time […]

It's okay. Just a sit. Just a sit. Okay, hang on. Let me get the dog out of here. He's going to be in and out. Hang on, hang on. Elliot, the NHL COVID protocol list. A couple of things here. One, Wednesday was a tough night for the NHL. Thursday brought more information, and then Thursday afternoon brought even more.

Before we get to the Buffalo Sabres coach and the subsequent new names on the protocol list, Wednesday was the tough one and a lot of this revolved around the Minnesota Wild. Yeah, Wednesday was a really tough day and I think behind the scenes it was really challenging. I think it was hard for a lot of people. The NFL released a big report, and it was about what it learned about coronavirus and playing a season through it. And they had to move games, but they had no games canceled. They were very fortunate, unlike Major League Baseball, unlike basketball, unlike the NHL. And Dr. Alan Sills is the name of their chief medical officer. And he talked about how it didn't cross the line of scrimmage,

the Corona virus from what they could tell. And I know a lot of leagues were really heartened by that. They were really happy to hear that news. And, you know, you kind of watch what's happened now, Buffalo, New Jersey,

Colorado, Minnesota on Thursday, Jeff Blashill had some pretty interesting comments about the Red Wings and playing Carolina. You know, I think we had our first test when we had that group of guys get COVID. You know, we played Carolina, had guys that ultimately played with COVID. That's just the reality of the testing being delayed. And, you know, I'm quite certain that's where our guys got it.

And it's really hard to avoid that. But our guys got it and it didn't spread within our team any more than that. So I think our medical staff did an excellent job. I think we forced the protocols that have been in place to make sure we mitigate, you know, any further spreading. And I think our guys did a real good job. Our staff did a real good job with that. Our players did a good job with that.

You got to do it the best you can. The problem in ice hockey is, you know, we play in a rink where the humidity is dry and the air is cool. And my understanding with the research I've done is that potentially lets that virus sit right there in the air and it doesn't dissipate. So when one team has it and you play a game, it's hard. And the testing is, you know, you don't get an instant result that's uh reliable so we're in this situation we're in we got to do the best we can and the nfl said its big thing was

ventilation it was very fortunate because bigger stadia outdoors for the most part no ice and you know i i think this has been a really nerve-wracking couple of days for the National Hockey League and the players. And I think the other thing too is that anytime you speak to the league and anytime you speak to the Players Association, and I think this happened around the New Jersey Buffalo game, they tell you that they really try not to interfere with their doctors. They listen to the medical advice and they go from there. And I have a line I've used on the podcast

and on my radio interviews and everywhere I go, Jeff, and you've heard it, it's that what is true now might not be true 10 minutes from now because we're learning and we're constantly evolving. And I think the biggest challenge for the NHL

and some other leagues too that don't have the size of arenas that the nfl does is is it different for hockey and i don't know if they have the full answers yet but i think this week was a worry that it could be it's a really challenging and tough spot for the league and the players to be in there's a whole lot of issues that come out of this, but we're still in the process right now just sort of reviewing what the news is, and we'll get to what this means for the NHL in a couple of moments, Elliot.

We saw the NHL adopting additional COVID-19 preventative measures to help mitigate risks. I got to say, this is a really quick reaction to what we saw on Wednesday. And I think it's one that's appreciated by everybody. Certainly the players. I think that you'd have to be the ultimate hot take guy to try to find something wrong with how the NHL reacted to what we saw on Wednesday. And the big one is getting rid of the glass behind the benches. That seems to be the huge one.

Well, there's no question that in some of these games, the players and the teams have wondered about this. Does it spread behind the benches? And that is the place where the teams are most congested and people spend their most time together. It would be logical. And obviously there was the news on thursday that ralph kruger had tested positive and and won't be behind the bench he's the second coach now behind peter deborah vegas that has missed games and i think there's worry about it and you're

looking at anything you can do to try to alleviate the problem they're also going to look at air purifiers with a special filter i actually went to the consumer report website to find out about this filter that they're talking about it's supposed to be really high end but i think the other one too jeff is just the fact and it'll be interesting to see where the league and the players go on this but some of them push back on only an hour 45 arrival before a game unless you're receiving injury treatment. Right. And I get it.

If you looked at that Leaf picture the other day from practice with them on the ice and the TV screen moved right next to the ice, that's because they don't want them meeting in their meeting rooms. They want them meeting out in more open areas. I do believe that every inch you can take to try to mitigate this, you should take it. I want to get to Ralph Kruger here in a second, but the other thing, and you, you wrote about this in your blog, your, your quickie blog after Wednesday's news, rapid testing.

Yeah. There's the PCR test and then there's the rapid test any movement there i know it's been a topic of you know great discussion uh in the nhl any movement on that i do think there is some you know as a matter of fact uh we're taping this on thursday night this part of the podcast anyway we tape them in pieces now because news happens so fast you know the toronto maple east have a new entrance procedure for games at scotia bank arena the podcast anyway, we tape them in pieces now because news happens so fast. That's true. You know, the Toronto Maple Leafs have a new entrance procedure for games at Scotiabank Arena. Anyone going into the games, including media,

has to take a rapid test. You have to do it by, I think it's 40 minutes before the game. If you show up later than that, you can't enter the building. The issues with rapid testing, just to explain it, the PCR test, the league is making the players and everybody else who's around every day

take what's called the PCR test. It is the best test. If you're going to take one, that's the one you should take. It's the most accurate. It's the most reliable. The problem is it takes too long to get the results back. Now, what the NBA had done was it was at one PCR test and one rapid test per day, and they're looking at adding a second rapid

test per day. There's two issues with the rapid tests. Number one is accuracy. There are more false positives in general with the rapid tests tests and you're always worried about what that could do to you right before a game and contact tracing and what that could mean and you have to take another test you know i'm doing actually at rogers a rapid testing program three every seven days and i really like it it gives me and and my family an added feeling of calm about the testing but they're not as accurate as the regular pcr tests and you do worry about what a false positive can mean or do and the second thing is supply i think you know there's been some concern is can you get enough rapid tests for everyone i know earlier there was a bit of a cost question i've heard estimates of about eight million dollars

but i think we're at the point where everyone's just going to have to deal with that. Like I know Carolina, when they were starting to, their players were starting to recover and the cases were going down, there was a time that they were using rapid tests. But I just think at the end of the day, they're going to have to agree to this at some

point. Well, I mean, a lot of people pointed this out as well. When you have a compressed schedule, how do you have a testing procedure that doesn't give you anything automatic? Like you get the PCR test is wonderful, but you know, these are players

that are now sort of playing on this. You know, it's even in a lot of ways worse than an American Hockey League schedule. Sure, there's not three games in three days, but it's, you know, one day off and then two days back to back know one day off and then two days back to back and one day off and a couple of games like it's a really tight schedule right now as good as the pcr test is you know many looked at this and said this is kind of heading into a

trouble area if you can't identify quickly given that these games are happening you, almost every single night for these teams more so than they've ever played before. Well, the thing I'm beginning to wonder here, Jeff is if you are a baseball fan, you know that if they have a rain out or something later in the season, they only play the game. If they absolutely have to.

Yeah. I wonder if we're going to start getting to that point. Now we know, cause Chris talked about it on Saturday night night and headlines that they have you know 10 days or so after the season that they can use as a buffer one of the things i'm kind of thinking here is what happens if for example say that one of the canceled games when we get later in the year it's between a team that's in sixth and one division against a team that's in seventh in that same division. Sure.

Is there any point in even making up that game? There isn't a point, and I think everyone would look at it and say it's a different year and we understand. The only problem is, I mean, we have, and again, it's still early, but we were talking about this on Scotiabank Wednesday Night Hockey. When you look at the amount of overtimes which are up this season except in canada yeah excepting but games are closer than ever right now yeah like where's the we haven't again again it is early but you know outside of you know certainly the ottawa senators i mean we're not like i don't know how much separation is going to be like i

don't know how many empty calorie games there's going to be towards the end of this. That's one option you have. Right. That, you know, you're probably right that there probably won't be a lot of situations like that, but at least you know that that is an option. It's going to come down to points percentage. Berkey was talking about that on Wednesday's show.

There's no way you can see every team playing 56 games. And I think every team playing 56 games. And I think every team knew this going in. It would come down to points percentage. But I think you'll see a situation where if it doesn't matter for a playoff spot, what if it's between three and six and we already know three is in and six is out? Why bother making it up?

If it's already locked up. If it's already locked up. You mentioned points percentage and that was an interesting conversation on the show on Wednesday. I don't know was it a sort of i don't want to say inevitability but do you think do you think that people looked at this even within the league and said we're gonna say 56 games but low-key we think that's a pipe dream well i just think that in this day and age how can you not think that you have to believe that you're sitting there saying by some miracle everyone could play

56 but we know we have to be prepared for it like someone was asking me today when you looked at what happened yesterday you shut down the whole league for two weeks and i think you just look at what happened in the other sports right yeah? Yeah. You know, when some teams were getting shut down in Major League Baseball, everybody else kept playing. Yep. When some teams shut down in basketball, like Memphis and Washington were two teams that were shut down for a while, everybody else kept playing.

You know, and now in the NHL, like why would you shut down the Canadian division right now? And everybody up here is gloating that there's only one player on the COVID list and that's dubois because he's in quarantine yeah i wouldn't go don't do i wouldn't glow don't do a victory lap yet knock on wood don't because if it changes they're all going to be laughing at us yeah but why would you shut down the canadian division right now you wouldn't so i think people are just going to keep going as as long as they can i just can't believe, I am shocked that the NBA is doing an All-Star game.

Why? Well, that's money. I get it. Listen, we know the All-Star games in every league are for kids and sponsors. Yeah. I get it. But in a season like this? That's got to be money.

They got to have some big deal they're protecting. I know that this is all day to day. And every day we wait for the COVID protocol list to come out, just like we watch the waiver wire every day at noon Eastern. But within the offices of the NHL, did they not have to be looking at this and saying, how are we going to do the playoffs? saying, how are we going to do the playoffs?

And do we start to look at doing Canadian bubbles again for the postseason? I know we're day-to-day. I get that. I know playoffs are a long way away, but they have to be considering this, no? I have always believed that everything is on the radar. I just find it really hard to believe, Jeff, that the way that life has gone right now, there isn't a contingency plan for everything. Yeah.

Now, that said, I believe that is the absolute last resort. Number one, the players don't want it. And the NHL is sensitive to that. Number two, again, it's this whole reason that they're playing in their own rinks right now it's sponsorship and money and and things like that that's why we've renamed the divisions that's right and the playoffs are where you really make your money right so i would see that not being a desire now the other thing is when do the playoffs start they start in may what have we learned about

this virus it doesn't seem to travel as far in the summer so you're sitting there now we're starting to see case numbers go down i think we'd all like to see the vaccine distributed faster nudge nudge wink wink hint hint let's get going here but it's starting to go around i think you're hoping in May between warmer weather, vaccine distribution, and the numbers going down that you're going to be in a better situation. You're going to be able to have playoffs in your own buildings. I don't even want to contemplate fans.

I know they're probably hoping, but I just don't want to discuss that right now what's the negative right now it's this new strain and everybody's worried about this new strain but you're looking in may and hoping the positives of distribution numbers going down whether better will save you so would i say that they've probably got a plan for it yes i would think that everything's being prepared for but i i bet you they're i say that they've probably got a plan for it yes i would think that everything's being prepared for but i i bet you they're just hoping that everything else they don't have to do that elliot i want to talk about ralph kruger yeah um who as you mentioned tested positive

for covet 19 uh enters the nhl covet protocol you know our conversations going into the bubble last year for the playoffs, when it turned to who's going to go in, who should go in. And certainly we've learned a lot more about this virus since then, how it behaves, how we should behave around it. But there was legitimate concern and rightfully so. And I think that is still there about older people at rinks. Like we talked about Rick bonus. We talked about Joel Quenville, Ralph Kruger, 61 years old.

Yeah. Do we have the conversation again, considering what, you know, Minnesota considering New Jersey, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera,

have gone through. Should we revisit the conversation about older people at these games? I just don't know. I mean, look at Jim Rutherford. Like Jim Rutherford is a guy who took extreme caution, extreme caution. You know, when I heard that today, I i was immediately concerned he's the second coach as we mentioned to do it the one thing i look at with kruger i felt better about is that he's in excellent shape he is like he keeps himself in in really good physical condition and you know

we've talked about his attitude too and you know you just think that a person like that would keep a positive attitude and and take good care of himself i'm 50 i've talked about how you know we went out and we bought a peloton earlier in the pandemic because i was very concerned about what sitting around and was going to do to my own health and i wasn't anywhere, and I'm not in anywhere near as good shape as Kruger is. I think we all accept some degree of risk in going to work. No question about it. So I don't really know what more to say than if some coaches or people say,

you know what, I see what's happened and I don't want to do this. I respect that. I think we all have to make our own choices. I find it very hard to answer that question because I don't like to. I know. I don't like to tell people. I don't like to tell people what to do, right?

I don't like anyone telling me what to do, so I like to tell other people what to do. I'm the exact same way, but like you two, I have a genuine concern for people's health and heaven forbid something awful would happen to a you know a senior citizen in this game i don't know how i would feel about saying well you know what i just said it's your own choice when i could have said you know what maybe let's at least have the discussion i don't know there is one story i've heard of at least one situation in the league where you know somebody who wasn't in great physical shape was told we're gonna keep you

outside of the bubble the team bubble basically and you know i i think if the doctors are making those kinds of decisions, that's all you can really ask for. Listen, to everyone, Ralph Kruger and everyone in the NHL who has tested positive, we wish you all a very speedy recovery. With that, let's begin. This is 31 Thoughts to Podcast, presented by the GMC Sierra AT4. Okay, so welcome once again to the podcast. Elliot and I are very happy that you've decided to download and listen once again. And you're going to want to stick around for later on in the podcast. Neil Glassberg dropped by for an interview early Thursday morning. He's the founder, president, and CEO of PBI Sports.

And Elliot, one of the niches that he's carved out in this hockey industry is that amongst other things and certainly people he represents NHL coaches it's a fascinating peek into that world and a really interesting conversation with a very unique and very well spoken and outspoken at times Neil Glassberg yeah I don't want to say too much but also he started by representing people like evander holyfield and and uh rob ryan in the nfl certainly great personalities with interesting stories so you'll have to wait for a few minutes to hear it but the man definitely has opinions well and one of the things we'll kick off the news segment here with this one of the things that uh

you asked neil about um is you know what happens when there's a gm search in the nhl and pittsburgh's going through that now and true to my claim on the last podcast elliot i'm going to ask you about this every single podcast what's happening with the gm search in penguin town they've begun their interviews. John Ferguson, Kevin Weeks, Patrick Alveen, who's already there, Ron Hextall, Mike Gillis, I believe has an interview scheduled. What's been interesting is

kind of who's stepped back. Scott Mellenby from Montreal declined on his choice. Chris Drury, Rangers. Initially, it was a yes. And then he thought about it and declined, preferring to stay in New York. Can you pause on Drury really quickly?

Because I'm curious about that. Because Chris Drury's name has been out there and attached to a number of different teams. We think of Minnesota. We think of Florida. His name- Buffalo. Buffalo. His name has been out there for a while why hanging on with new york i just think he really likes his situation in new york and it's a good situation for him and his family and i just think it would take an unbelievable opportunity to get him to go.

And also Jason Botterill, he's staying in Seattle. He's not going to be part of this. So I think this search is kind of wide open right now. One of the things that's interesting with the whole Pittsburgh situation is that at some point in time, this next GM might have to oversee the dismantling of a three-time Stanley Cup champion. And I realize there's two different versions of that team, and Chris Letang wasn't a cornerstone part of the first one but

you know Crosby and Malkin obviously won three Letang's a huge factor now you know what's the future you know the team obviously believes it's going to still continue to compete so it's going to make eventually when you make those decisions to change the future and change the team, it's going to be very hard. And I think some people are looking at it and saying, boy, that's going to be a brutal, brutal challenge. There's only 32 of these jobs and they're coveted, but I do believe some people are looking at that job like that's not going to be an easy one. Do we have any, you know, as the weeks go on, things, you know, more information becomes available and focus sharpens. Do we have a greater idea now of what happened with Jim Rutherford

or is it the same as last week? Like I said, Jim Rutherford was extremely careful of COVID and good on him. I do think the Carmanos thing was a factor that he wasn't there anymore to kind of be his buffer. I do believe that there was a philosophical difference. Like, I don't think it was like Rutherford wanted to give up and not compete for cups, but I think he saw a path that might involve kind of changing the group a little bit.

And I don't think the Penguins were interested in that. And I just think that, you know, between everything, the frustrations just grew. And do I think it was anything brutal or negative or out of the normal disagreements? No. But I just think philosophically, the two sides grew apart and didn't see it the same way and it was time to make the change you know i do think rutherford was looking around at some potential moves they wouldn't tell me what the trade was i know there's a lot of these latin rumors i can't confirm or deny honestly i don't know but i do think there was something out there that rutherford was working on that died last week with the change in GM.

I do think it was a defenseman. I don't know if it was Mete. I don't know if it was Dermott. I don't know if it was one move with Letang to clear room for something else. Like, I don't know. There is definitely a sense, though, and a belief that he was working on something

that ended when the GM change happened. We talked about, and we've talked playing on radio every day about it, the Tony D'Angelo situation with the New York Rangers. It seems as if this thing is headed towards the one-third buyout, but is there any more movement in the story with Tony D'Angelo as, you know, waivers has come and gone now and no one claimed him? D'Angelo as you know he's waivers has come and gone now and no one claimed him well I would like to address one thing that I put in the blog if I could write it over again I absolutely would and that is that I don't think the Rangers are feel that they need to take on any more money than they would have to buy out D'Angelo with. I said that they were willing to take on salary. It doesn't

make sense for them to take any more than what the buyout would be. And since he's under 26 until October, it's one third of next year's salary, which is $5.3 million. So it doesn't make any sense for them to take any more than that. And so that's kind of, I think, where they are. I do think there are teams who are interested i think almost everybody has discussed it i just think that all these teams know that if they do it you better be prepared for a chunk of your fan base that's not going to be very happy the concern is more perhaps the pr hit that you'll take as opposed to how he'll fit with the team? Are there any concerns that way?

I think there's a question about how he'll fit with the team too. No question about that. That's definitely a factor. No doubt about that. But PR matters and you know you're going to hear it. Big news coming out Wednesday

about the PWHPA and the New York Rangers. We talked to Jaina Hefford from the PWHPA on Scotiabank Wednesday Night Hockey. The PWHPA game, February 28th at Madison Square Garden. The Rangers become the first NHL team to host a game featuring the PWHPA. And we asked Jaina about this yesterday, you know, does this imply or, you know, does it wink at this idea that a bigger relationship between the NHL and the PWHPA is on the horizon? And she said, essentially, well, we certainly hope so. We haven't been shy to say that we believe the NHL support of the women's game is necessary for a truly professional league. What we have found out is there's a lot of interest with NHL teams to support women's hockey.

And there's a great deal of interest with the member teams that we've worked with to support professional women's hockey. So we're just so appreciative of the New York Rangers for this opportunity. They've worked hard to get us to a place where we could make this announcement today. And it's going to be history for our women to be the first women to ever

skate at Madison Square Garden in a game is something pretty special. How did you greet this news on Wednesday, Elliot? I'm happy for the players. You know, at the end of the day, I just want everyone to play, get an opportunity to play. Whether you're an eight-year-old boy or girl who just wants to get on the ice, or you're a 30-year-old player who wants to continue their career. I just hope that everybody gets a chance to play.

And I'm happy for those players that they're going to get an opportunity. And Madison Square Garden, man, that's the stage. That's the stage. You want to play there. I think it's a fantastic thing. You know, we had Jaina Hefford on our show on Wednesday night on Scotiabank Wednesday Night Hockey, and we asked her about Canada,

and she made it pretty clear that the different quarantine rules make that very challenging right now, which I totally get. But hopefully some of the Canadian players get the opportunity to do that too. And while you're on it, Jeff, I'd like to mention the NWHL bubble. I feel terribly for those players and for the people who worked on it. So Tyler Tumini made a quote that some people kind of ripped. Like she said, she was really proud of what she accomplished and I guess what they all accomplished in getting that far in the bubble.

And I would just like to say in getting that far in the bubble. And I would just like to say, I understand that comment. I do. I recognize what she's saying, the message she's trying to get across. It's easy, and I understand it, for all of us to look at it and say they didn't get their nationally televised games, it's a failure. And I'm sure there's enormous disappointment over the fact that they didn't get to those nationally televised games. But, you know, I look at these leagues right now, and we just started this podcast with a whole dissertation on the NHL's challenges. Let's look at billion-dollar leagues. Look at all the challenges baseball had and is having again right now. You know, there are governments that want to push back their start a month.

Look at all the challenges the NBA continues to have. The NBA is announcing an all-star game, which I think is a crazy idea purely for sponsorship. Look at the challenge we're having in the NHL. The NFL got all its games in, but it wasn't easy. So let's talk about these. Look at all the challenges the AHL is having and everything the players have been through.

Junior hockey. Like, keep going. Junior hockey. And then we'll go to schools and kids sports and all that stuff. And all these kids who've lost a year of their lives, all these boys and girls. And the NWHL, they tried.

And I can't rip them. I rip them they tried you have to try if you're given the opportunity you have to try and i know it sucks and i know those players are disappointed and i know the league is disappointed and i know they're getting hammered for it but i look at it as you gave it your best if they should do one thing over don't advertise it as a bubble it wasn't a bubble players could come in and out you shouldn't have used the word but the bottom line is you gave it the effort and i understand what too many is saying by she's proud and happy that they gave it the effort because i think that's what they should have done i just feel terribly it didn't work out i'm with you the uh all the problems

that we saw play out in the nwhl we're seeing play out in a lot of uh the quote-unquote bigger uh more well-funded sports leagues uh not just hockey a couple more things here before we get to neil glassberg what did you make of the full-throated defense of blake wheeler by paul maurice paul clearly it's a little frustrating taking the questions about blake and i think he's probably frustrated as well i'm wondering if you think he's earned the right from what he's proven in his career to avoid criticism or at the very least he's earned a little bit of buffer from that criticism when it's perceived he's not playing his best hockey i just like you to be right about it like i right you'll you'll do your deep dives

and analytics and god they do a horrid job of telling you what five guys do like the goal that you're beaking them on last night you got put in a real tough spot by a back check by somebody else right and i'm sensitive to it because i've been in awe of this guy since i got here his his work level like he's unimpeachable and his character and how he runs that room and how he plays he's 11 points in 10 games yeah shift length shorter because i'm asking the whole hockey team to run their shift shorter and and that's what he does as a captain he'll bolt off the ice as fast as he can to lead so i'm not so much protective of blake wheeler i'm more protective of the winnipeg jets like you get a guy in your town that plays that hard and is such a fine, fine leader and a fine man.

Let's be real careful. If his plus minus number isn't what you want, like he's prorated out at about 88 points, man. And we're 10 games in, we're 6-3-1, you're beaking my captain. Yeah, I'm offended by it well first of all he's defending one of his most important players as captain and secondly i haven't spoken to maurice and when he's in that mood you know you tend to leave him alone um i haven't spoken

to maurice but i see it as look like that and not only Wheeler, but other players have taken a lot of heat in Winnipeg since the Line A deal. And I think this is Paul Maurice's way of saying, I think this is enough. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. If it wasn't for fans and their passion, Jeff, you, me, we wouldn't have jobs. Amo would still have a job, but you and I wouldn't.

Yeah, no chance for us. But I think Paul Maurice is saying, I think this is enough. Enough with this. Leave my guy alone. And that, to me, is the motivation behind it. I think the other thing that Paul Maurice is saying, and he doesn't come right out and say it,

is that people have wanted to leave Winnipeg. It's hard for Winnipeg to keep their players, and Blake Wheeler committed to this city, and everybody should remember that. That's what I think Paul Maurice is saying. I remember at the All-Star Game a couple years ago, I had a conversation with Wheeler about it, and he basically said,

you can talk about what you don't have in Winnipeg. If I want warm weather, when I retire, I can go find warm weather, but I like Winnipeg. I like the team. I like the setup. It's good for me. Why wouldn't I stay with something I like? And to me, that's what Maurice's message is

that people are ripping this guy. And I can tell, like, he thinks it's more than about play. He says people are ripping this guy who wanted to be a Jet and committed to being a Jet. So I think it's deeper than just one play at the end of Calgary-Winnipeg. I think this is Paul Maurice going to the wall for his captain, who he thinks has taken too much criticism and trying to remind people of what he's done for the city and the province I think it resonates

all through the room too and even to the point where you know he wouldn't name Kyle Connor who I mean he referenced the the nature of the back well I mean it's still there like you know it's not like you can't figure out what he's talking about. 100% true, but he still did not name him. Yeah, he didn't name the name. Didn't name. But if you watch the highlight, you know, the guilty party is Kyle Connor. Finally, how do you read the Ottawa situation right now?

Like going into the season, we all talked about it. This is going to be a tough year for the Ottawa Senators. It's going to be a lottery year. To start the season, they look like they were going to play hard every game. They won that game against the Toronto Maple Leafs. We kind of said, okay, you know what? There's going to be a lot of losses in Ottawa, but it's not going to be as bad as we might have thought.

But Elliot, it's as bad as we thought. Maybe even worse when you throw in the goaltending factor. How do you read Ottawa right now? Jeff, we'll talk about Ottawa, and then I want to talk about Vancouver. But first, as you asked the Senators, how much weight do you think went off their shoulders when they beat the Canadians last night? beat the Canadians last night. Yeah. Just imagine the giant elephant off Matt Murray's shoulders, off DJ Smith's shoulders,

off Pierre Dorian's shoulders, the goalie coach there is Pierre Gourou off his shoulders. Just everyone, that feeling that they must have had after beating the Canadians and Matt Murray had a good night for them. You know, the thing that I thought about this week is in the second loss to Edmonton, the game on the Monday night, they fall behind 3-0 because Holberg loses the net and they don't put Murray in.

Like that's the kind of goal where you say, okay, our goalie doesn't have it tonight. We got to bring in the other guy. They're so concerned about Murray's mental state and he's such a long-term investment, you can't take him out of the game. And that to me was a real wow moment. And I just think when you're young

and we knew they were going to be, you know, probably a seventh place team in the Canadian division, but you just want to be competitive. And your first place team in the canadian division but you just want to be competitive and your first game you beat the leafs you play with great structure the leafs are saying wow it was like playing columbus because you had to go through five guys when we were behind and then you look at everything that happened since and you're sitting there like what happened and you're worried about your young guys your stutzla's your shabbats your kachoks feeling that this is acceptable or they sag um you're worried about you know their attitudes they think they think

that losing becomes acceptable you needed that night on thursday like to me this year for the centers we know they're not going to be a playoff team but you have to feel competitive and you need saves you can be the best structured team in the league to feel competitive and you need saves you can be the best structured team in the league and if you don't get saves it doesn't matter and they had a night on thursday where they got saves and they beat you know one of the two best teams in the division that they just needed that like you need a reward sometimes and they got a reward you know i'm sure they're looking for a goalie, but goalies are hard to find. But I did want to talk about Vancouver.

Sure. And they got embarrassed in Toronto last night. And earlier this week, Jim Banning, the GM, he's really blunt. When he does interviews, he's blunt. And I think he made a mistake. He did an article in the province with Ben Kuzma, and it was after Tyler Toffoli just torched the Canucks again for the Montreal Canadiens. And Toffoli has absolutely

slaughtered the Canucks this year. And, you know, Benning was asked about trying to keep Toffoli, who left as a free agent. And he said, I'm reading the quote from the province, it was our intention to try and get him signed. and if we could have had a little more time, we could have tried to work through that. It got to a point where I know Tyler wanted to come back and we were trying to figure it out. We kind of ran out of time with him getting offers and one he needed to take. We would have had to move money out. Now, Ottawa was around Toffoli too, but he also eventually took Montreal's money. You know, that quote became

a firestorm in Vancouver in radio, online, everywhere it could have become. And then the Canucks went and got blown out in Toronto in a game where they were just not very good. And you know, a couple weeks ago, Canucks Twitter got mad at me

because I said the Canucks shouldn't panic. And I still don't think they should panic. You can't make panic moves. But I think that quote is going to come back to haunt Banning. Having said all that, I wonder what the reality is there. Is the reality, well, this is the team and too bad. This is what it's going to be for 56 games or however many games they get in. Or do you think it hits a point where you have to do something?

You know, I think you get to the point where things, we know the coach doesn't have a contract after this year and you can see the frustration going. Like something's just wrong with that group. Pedersen hasn't been right since the start of the season. We've talked about the change in identity. Something's missing there. And it's pretty clear to me that the organization has said,

we don't like the way that we negotiate deals and we want to change that. And so it's hard not to look at this and say jobs aren't on the line. I think it's that simple. All right. That's the latest. And when we come back, our latest interview was with Neil Glassberg. You're going to hear that in a couple of moments when we return.

The founder, president, and CEO of PBI Sports. We've always liked to highlight people that you don't hear a whole lot from in the NHL world here on the podcast. We really think you're going to enjoy this one. Neil Glassberg next on 31 Thoughts, the podcast. Elliot, on the business card, I'm sure it says founder, president, and CEO of PBI Sports. But what should we know before we bring him on about Neil Glassberg? Well, he's a passionate advocate for his clients.

There's no question about that. If I ever write or say anything about someone he represents he doesn't like, I hear it. And you hear it loudly and you hear it for a long period of time. You know, I think that's probably the thing I would describe about him is if he feels that his clients have been wronged, you hear it. And you'll hear him now. Neil, welcome to the podcast. How was that description of you from Elliot Friedman? First of all, good morning and thanks for having me podcast. How was that description of you from Elliot Friedman? First of all, good morning, and thanks for having me on.

I think that's probably the nicest thing Elliot's ever said to me. So it's more than appreciated. It's actually kind of surprising. But I guess there could have been a lot worse, but I'll take what he said. Thank you. All right. Well, just explain to everybody who doesn't know you, who are you and what do you do? So I have been in this business for about 10 years. I had a very long extended corporate career with many different financial institutions around the world and reinvented myself about,

actually it's 11 years ago now, in space that really wasn't covered by anybody. So what I do do is I represent coaches and management across really three professional league sports, being the NHL, the NFL, and NBA, of which the largest proportion of my client base resides in the NHL. I have also, just in the spirit of what I do, so people call me an agent, which is fair from a generic standpoint, but I'm more of a brander, more of a personal branding agent than an agent as we would know it from the player side. I've had the fortune over the last 11 years of, as an example, working with

Evander Holyfield as his personal branding agent for three years, which was incredible. And we don't have enough time today for me to go through some of the stories, but I'm sure you can imagine it. So I represent coaches and management in their contract negotiations, in their career planning, in their contract negotiations, in their career planning, in sourcing opportunities around the world, and as being the sort of like the go-to person, I hate using the word concierge, but the go-to guy for anything related to their professional careers, be it tax planning, be it insurance, be it wealth management, endorsement, sponsorships, and anything that life throws out at them. And again, the beauty of what I do is that I have clients on 26 different NHL teams. So I get to really understand what goes on within each organization, not to the degree of confidentiality that you guys

would love. But I'm very often a sounding board for my clients. If they need a trusted set of ears that where they can vent. And the beauty of what I do is I'm not emotionally connected to any of these guys. So they get the straight goods. Before we go into hockey, there's two non-hockey things I'd like to ask Neil. You mentioned Holyfield. He had a very complicated bankruptcy. So how did you help him navigate that? So I got involved with Evander shortly after he lost his house in Atlanta. So I can't comment on the actual bankruptcy proceedings that took place. But let's just say when I started to work with him, he was not in a very good place financially. So from a personal branding standpoint, most people around the world know who he is and know what he did. So there was a huge advantage

in getting started. The first deal I did with him was we put together an online betting site with a company based out of Israel, which was called realdealbet.com. And, of course, the real deal was Evander's boxing moniker or trademark. And the company in Israel was very interested in creating branding around him. the company in Israel was very interested in creating branding around him. So that deal ran for about two years and, you know, put some money in his pocket and allowed us the opportunity to let people know that he was still alive and well. And of course, there was no online betting in the U.S., so it didn't do anything on the U.S. side. But internationally, his brand is very well known. do anything on the U.S. side, but internationally, his brand is very well known. At one point,

he had told me that he was actually the seventh most identifiable brand in the world, which is a pretty neat piece of news. I didn't realize that. But in traveling with him to various places, it was incredible to see how much notoriety and how much affection people had for him. And, you know, what I did, back to Elliot's question, was, you know, I told him from day one that I was going to keep the Sharks away from him. The funny story, and if you want me to give you just a little bit of background of how in the world a guy sitting in Toronto ends up working with Evander Holyfield. Rob Ryan is a client of mine. Of course, Rob was in the NFL

and Rob was with the New Orleans. He was the next guy I was going to ask you about, by the way. We'll talk about him in a second. So Rob was the defensive coordinator with the Saints at that point in time. And I remember it was a Sunday night. I was sitting outside of California sandwiches and my phone rings and it's Rob Ryan thinking, why is he calling me on a Sunday night? And he says, I walked away from the table, but I have a client for you. You need to help this guy out because the guys sitting around the table are about to steal his likeness and image. And I feel really bad for him. And I don't know how to tell him to not say yes.

So he gave me his number. Of course, he told me it was Holyfield. And I spoke to Holyfield the next morning, which was the Monday. And on Wednesday, I flew down to Atlanta to meet him. He picked me up at the airport in his 2017 Cadillac Denali, where the instrument panel was actually sitting on his lap. So it was kind of weird. And, of course, it was his right ear that was chewed off by Tyson. So when you're in the passenger seat, I was staring at his ear.

It was all pretty surreal to say, how come that thing isn't rounded at the top like most people? The bite fight. Wow. Quick, the Ryans. What are the Ryans like? So I have spent most of my time with Rob and not with Rex. I don't know Rex very well at all. Rob is one of the most passionate, knowledgeable football human beings I have ever met in my life. There's a reason why he's had so many great jobs. He's an incredibly, incredibly knowledgeable defensive football guy.

Dealing with Rob is very much the way you see him. He's just a happy-go-lucky, take-no-prisoners, unfiltered, passionate football coach. And, you know, what Rob says you can take to the bank, but unfortunately, you know, being unfiltered comes along with its own share of problems. And, you know, in this day and age of professional sports, no owner is really looking for any kind of distraction from their coaching staff. And I think that those are some of the things that got in the way. I mean, Rob and Rex working together in Buffalo was something they both really, really wanted to do. I don't know if that was actually, you know, what the chances of true success would have been. I mean, they love each other.

They're competitive between the two of them, which is amazing. But they're both super passionate guys. You know, we see Rex every week. They know the game probably better than just about anybody out there. So let's get to hockey and focus on coaches. Initially NHL coaches. You mentioned you've been doing this for, for 10 years, Neil, what are some of the biggest changes you've seen from that position in hockey

in the last 10 years, whether it is salary, whether it is how things are done, floor is yours. The biggest change is from behind the bench. There are a couple of things, Jeff, and I'm going to give a shout out to the NHL Coaches Association in this comment because I think that most people don't know that the NHL Coaches Association does exist.

It is not a union body. It is a loosely held organization run by Mike Hirschfeld, whereby probably 90% of the NHL and AHL coaches belong. And it is really, I think it's been, Mike has done a very, very good job over the years, building its pedigree and behind the scenes, and working with the league on certain things that are more all encompassing than what I do, like pensions for all coaches, etc. Keep in mind, of important note is none of these coaches are belong to a union. So none of their agreements are collectively bargained. They are all independent employment agreements. And every agreement from every team is unique. So there's, you know, if there are state employment laws, those will vary in the clauses and statutes from one team to another. So to answer your question,

of course, salaries have changed for the better, as they should over time. I think, as I said, and not to compliment myself, but there aren't a lot of people that do what I do, which is fantastic from a competitive standpoint, but it also helps in that I have access to the data for all of, you know, for pretty much all of these coaches. And I don't use that in a negotiation, but the fact that I have it allows me to business case each one of my clients, you know, on either a new contract or on a contract renewal. And maybe it's my 27 years of corporate experience that have taught me how to business case things, but it's hard to argue with facts. It's easy to argue with opinions. So I think back to your question, I think salaries have changed.

I think the simple acceptance of somebody like myself working in this industry, specifically with coaches, because another factoid is I am not part of the NHLPA. And the NHL has a rule in its constitution that says that no agent can represent players and coaches or management. So if you represent players, you can only represent players and you must belong to the NHLPA. I do not belong to the NHLPA because the coaches are not part of that union. So that's one of the big differences because the NFL and the NBA and NCAA have had agents representing them for 25 years. The NBA is the most similar to the NHL in terms of making that delineation for agents between representing coaches or players, but not both. The NFL is a little bit of a gong show in that there are no rules for agents. So just to use a name, you look at someone like Jimmy Sexton of CAA football.

He's a big time football coaching agent at both the college and the NFL level. And he also used to represent Scottie Pippen. Yeah, a massive, massive portfolio. a massive, massive portfolio. But, you know, Jimmy represents NFL players, NFL coaches, SEC coaches, presidents, general managers. So to me, once you throw players into the mix with everybody else, it just spews conflict of interest. So I understand why the NHL and NBA have done this, and it makes all the sense in the world. Same way I can't represent a player in the NHL, even if I wanted to. Pittsburgh Penguins now have a GM vacancy. They're beginning their process of interviewing people. So the news gets out that Jim Rutherford is out. What do you do?

out. What do you do? I have lists going on a regular basis for all my clients of who could potentially go where, because I don't want to be chasing my tail or chasing the fire when an announcement is made. So what would typically happen is once there is an opening, I would start to do my due diligence and try and get a little bit of the lay of the land in terms of what the perfect candidate profile might look like. And I will put a call in to the hiring manager or somebody in the organization just to suggest that I do work with viable candidates who they may want to speak to. And from that point on, the ball is really in their court as to whether or not they want to engage in a conversation, or whether what I say is noted,

but does not turn into a conversation. Or somebody else mentions to me that they're aware of the fact that somebody, you know, a name that I put forward is being considered. So the lobbying and the politicking for the person does not start on day one. The seed planting starts, but the next step of continuing to water the plant does not happen on day one. And then as you well know, other people get involved. So player agents have a lot of relationships with presidents and GMs and organizations. So, you know, anyone that has an opening that's looking to hire someone is just inundated, inundated with notes, messages, lobbying calls. It must be rather painful to be on that side, to be honest with you. You know, when it happens, my phone will ring off the hook from my clients that might be interested. Now, the good news is I'm typically one step ahead because I

know that they would be. But, you know, it doesn't take long before the news. I mean, I would argue the seat isn't even cold before, you know, people are throwing their names in the hat. This is really competitive space. And really, these jobs don't happen or don't come about very often. What do you think coaches are most concerned of NHL coaches? What do you think, outside of compensation obviously, what concerns NHL coaches the most from your perspective on a day-to-day basis? Of course, winning is number one and winning the Stanley Cup is the ultimate. We all get that. We all understand it. That's how these guys are wired. I think that the stability of the organization and the organization's commitment to winning is really important.

The location, the city that the team is in is important. The taxation from an income standpoint is important. The quality of life for their family is important. Now again, in working with coaches, certainly the established ones, their kids have typically beyond elementary and high school age, and you can go to college anywhere in the US. So the city becomes less relevant for the family typically beyond elementary and high school age. And you can go to college anywhere in the US. So

the city becomes less relevant for the family from that standpoint. But it's a whole series of, I think, normal decisions that anybody would make before accepting a job in any city. And they will, you know, they want to make sure that the organization is stable. And I think a lot of relationships just in terms of what's the involvement of the ownership group? How does the organization run? Is it one where you can speak your mind? Or is it one where you're basically being told what to do? How much influence might a coach have on the roster? How much inclusion is there for the coach in terms of trades in terms of you know in terms of improving the organization like there are a lot of factors that go into it and so it's hard to prioritize what the number one would be but certainly from my standpoint I need to make sure that

people are being compensated fairly, accurately, and competitively based on the entire scenario. So case in point, just to build on that, you know, we're in the tail end of a pandemic. I don't think it's any secret to say that owners have been seriously, seriously damaged financially, some more than others, depending on the other businesses that they're in. And I think that you have to just be a realist and say, at some point in time, is that revenue shortfall or the hemorrhaging in some cases going to work its way into the future of the business? And I think any rational person would say I think so I don't like it but you know what business on on the planet hasn't been impacted negatively

so that's a long-winded answer Jeff to the to the because there really is but there is no there is no one answer and I you know I can't just come out and say you know compensation is number one of course it I, you know, I can't just come out and say, you know, compensation is number one, of course, it's important. But you're also typically signing a three or four or five year deal to go work in an organization, where you are, your goal is to have ultimate success, which translates to winning the Stanley Cup. But on the way there, you've got to be competitive.

John Greenewald 00,00,00 So that confirms to me what a lot of us have been suspecting that one thing we're gonna see here is teams saying hey i know coaching salaries have grown and significantly you know mike babcock was the guy who really blew off the glass ceiling and other people have been moving closer there's's a bunch now making $5 million or more. Joel Quenville's one. Todd McClellan's right there. You think we're going to see teams say, we're bringing that ceiling back down for a while?

My answer would be, do I think that's going to happen? I want to, in my own mind, believe it won't. But in being a realist, I can't imagine that it won't. And it's somewhat, you know, the word I'm using is resetting. And it's incredibly unfortunate to even be having this conversation. But I think you're seeing it, you know, you're seeing it across multiple sports. Even from a this year standpoint, there's still a bunch of NHL teams that have put their coaches and their hockey staff on salary reductions for the year. So we're already living it in one way, shape or form. And that's on existing contracts. So on new contracts,

obviously I'm going to push as much as I can push and continue with the rational thinking. But who would have thunk that we'd ever be talking about affordability for an owner? Now, you know, it's not my business to get into all their other businesses and where they might be getting hit now financially. But at the end of the day, I think that the market still needs to be competitive. Are we going to see a Mike Babcock kind of deal again next year for the 21-22 season? I certainly hope so, but I also am a realist, and if I were a betting guy, I don't see that happening, but who knows? Who knows? I mean, that's the wild card. Neil, as you well know, in the 1970s, we saw the beginning of the European wave of hockey players, the Winnipeg Jets specifically.

The Winnipeg Jets influenced the Edmonton Oilers. They ended up winning Stanley Cups based on how the Jets previous to them had played. And then the European explosion was on in the NHL. And it's every team. It has been that way for a long time and will always be that way in the NHL. Why hasn't coaching followed? I wish I had the answer, Jeff, but I'm glad you bring that point up

because I have been harping for the last probably four years about the fact that teams as a general rule, I don't know the stat. You guys might know it better than I do, but I'm thinking that it's somewhere in the 30% range, if not higher, of European player composition in the NHL. And if you look at someone like Ricard Gromborg, just as an example. So Ricard was part of the Swedish Ice Hockey Federation for a long time. He was the head coach of the Swedish junior team. He was the head coach of the U18s. He was the head coach of the Swedish men's national team for a long time.

And I think I could say with certainty he's coached just about every Swedish, current Swedish NHL player, and has had tremendous success based on a country, I believe the population is 60 million people. So Sweden has done incredible things with their ice hockey program. We're seeing Finland repeat that. I really can't put my finger on what the issue is or why there's reluctance to seriously consider bringing a European coach into the NHL. Let's look at it this way. The NHL really has not seen a European coach in the league since Alpo Suhinen. And I can't even remember how many years ago it was, but Elliot, you would probably know since you're the data guy, 15 years, probably.

It was before I joined Hockey Night in Canada. There you go. So when you look at the fact that so many of these teams have at least a third of their players are European, it's the same game. Granted, they may have played on a larger ice surface in Europe. It's still, from a coach's perspective, about motivating professional athletes to get the absolute most out of them, to have them improve on their skills, and develop them into great professional,

North American professional athletes. So I don't know if it's an awareness issue, where some of the GMs in the in the NHL, you know, have made it over to the world championships and have been exposed to some of these international coaches. So I don't know if it's an awareness thing. I don't know if it's the fact that nobody has really been representing the European coaches in North America until I came along eight years ago and have really started pushing this. But I can tell you from, you know, the guys that I work with, they have done masterful jobs coaching in Europe, in professional organizations, and they deal with a lot of the same issues that coaches deal with here in North America. You know, whether it's a Gromborg who's coaching in Zurich, who had a phenomenal year last year until, of course, shortened by the pandemic,

and is having a fantastic year this year. There's another up-and-comer in Davos named Johan Lundskog, who is probably going to be offered a head coaching job in the Swiss A-League next year if he's not in the NHL. You look at former players, somebody like Enoli Jokinen, who is working with me now to try and help him land somewhere in the NHL in a coaching capacity after a phenomenal NHL career. And then on the management side, you look at someone like Anat Dominicheli, who's the general manager at Lugano in the Swiss A-League, who's a former NHL

player, who's a former European player agent, who grew up in Canada, knows Canada. So I'm trying to help these guys in terms of generating their brand awareness in North America with hope and confidence that some of these NHL teams will really start to seriously consider the hockey brains outside of the traditional North American, you know, who you know, and who knows who kind of way of hiring. It's not only that, Neil, but eventually and sooner rather than later, we're going to have to get it to a point where even in North America, there are different candidates and people who come from different backgrounds, more diverse backgrounds, and just to put them into front offices so they can learn the business and become

general managers like you know i look at someone like uh well seattle has promoted alexandra mandricki she's got a big role there you know jay feaster was a stanley cup winning general manager uh his daughter theresa just won a gold medal with team usa at the world juniors she interviewed with the ahl marlies for a coaching job last summer. I'm just wondering if we're at a point where it's not only about managers and head coaches now, it's about just populating offices with more diverse candidates

so that there is a bigger pool of people. I think that's a great point, Elliot. And on the diversity front, I mean, the whole diversity conversation just broadens everybody's views on really exploring to find the best candidate. I went on record on media months ago having this conversation about, let's call it nepotism. I don't like to use that word, but kind of the who you know way of hiring. let's call it nepotism. I don't like to use that word, but kind of the who you know way of hiring.

And I, as a corporate guy, former corporate guy, I'm trying to understand why the corporate hiring methodology is not used in professional sports. And what I mean is when you're a hiring manager on the corporate side, you're going to look for the absolute best candidate. You might use a search firm because you don't have a population of known candidates to draw from. That's fine. But on the interviewing front, I think there is so much value to be gained and so much information to be learned from a hiring manager by interviewing people that are not from the same typical bubble. Are you telling me there's no nepotism in the corporate world? Of course there is, but not nearly to the same level or the same extent as there is

in pro sports. I mean, I can rattle off six NFL teams where there's a father-son combo working. I'm not going to do that because, you know, I have to assume that the son earned the job, not just because dad was there, but because they had the competencies. So, you know, nepotism exists everywhere. That's why I don't like to use the word in this case. To me, it's more about broadening your horizons as a hiring manager. And instead of looking at an interview as a waste of time or a pain in the neck, that you actually look at it from a learning experience

perspective. Because if you pick up one thing from 10 candidates, you now have 10 more things that you didn't know before you started the process. I don't understand what's bad about that. Now, of course, there's time and whatnot. But let's face it, these interviews, I mean, interviews don't have to be hours long. For somebody that's organized, that has a script and knows what questions they want, you can learn things from people that come from diverse backgrounds, i.e. having coached in Europe and had success. To me, if you're going to hire somebody in sport, you want to hire somebody that has a track record of success and winning. So I think that anyone that comes to the

table as a candidate that has proven success, that has the competencies, regardless of their sex, their skin color, their ethnic background, anything, is really, I think people are selling themselves short when they don't give those folks the opportunity to try and convince the hiring manager that they're the right person. And I'm hoping, I'm hoping we're going to see a change in that sooner than later. You mentioned Oli Okunin a couple of seconds ago. Is this a path that he wants to walk now? Oli runs a, right now runs a very successful hockey academy in South Florida that has produced several NCAA D1 commits. You know, it's his passion for the game. Ole would absolutely like to be behind an NHL bench in a coaching capacity. You know, he was the captain of the Panthers, so he's got that

leader, he's got those leadership attributes, and I think it's a fantastic path for him to follow. Again, the challenge for some of these folks is that they, not everybody knows what their passions are and where they're at in their careers. But, you know, former players, not every former player will make the next great coach. We've seen examples of those. We've seen examples where things work well. I mean, Steve Ott, who's not a client of mine, and St. Louis, I think has done a, you know, done a tremendous job there, having not retired that long ago. And let's face it, not every former player wants to coach. They want to go on and they want to, you know, disconnect from the game or go on and do whatever, whatever, you know, they've been wanting to do their whole lives. But I think a former player, certainly somebody that's worn

a letter on his jersey, is a really interesting candidate. Here's my last question for you. And you don't have to mention names because I know you won't give me names. Tell us the craziest or angriest negotiation story you've had for one of your clients. Okay. I will not mention names, but I had a situation occur.

I'm not a shrinking violet and I'm not a thin skin guy and I'm not anxious and I'm not a worry wart. However, I did have one negotiation that caused me to be all of those. And let me tell you, I don't know if it was an inner body experience

or an outer body experience that I don't care to relive, but I have never felt since I've been doing this, you know, so hundreds of deals, I have never felt like I was going to lose a deal for a client until this situation occurred. And let me tell you, that takes a lot. And negotiation, you know, is like, you're either good at it or you're not. But it's a negotiation, which really means a discussion. It doesn't have to be overblown and overloaded with negativity and dissent and tension and anger. It's a discussion of which I like to present facts.

I don't present opinions. So these are the facts. You might not like them, but they're the facts. And I will tell you, Elliot, that for about an hour, I kind of sat back and thought, I called my client and said, I deserve to be fired if this happens. So what happened? We just got into it. The conversation went from me presenting facts to facts not wanting to be listened to, understood, interpreted, and valued in, you know, trying to figure out compensation. And it started getting personal because it was like a, I don't know if I felt

insulted or I got frustrated that what I was presenting, again, which were facts, were not being considered. When I was told that the person I was negotiating with, when I called and I got a message back that he's meeting with the owner as we speak, subsequent to the sudden hanging up on me, I thought that it was a done deal. I really thought that I was going to get a message back saying, we're not moving forward with your client. And, you know, I'm saving all the expletives and all the details because this is, you know, a family show kind of, so to speak. But, like, sometimes these conversations get heated.

And, look, I have relationships with a lot of player agents. I know they go through this as well, you know, pretty regularly. Sports is not for the faint of heart. I mean, you've got to have thick skin and you've got to be able to man up and own up and, you know, a GM is maybe telling me to pound salt, in other words, or, you know, thanks for the vote of confidence of your client, but we're not hiring him. Or I didn't realize that you're the one that I'm paying to make the hires for me. I can do that on my own, those kinds of things. But that's what makes it fun. I don't like to have those conversations, but if that's where they end up, then so be it. This has been great. Neil, thanks so much for stopping by today. I hope we can do it again real soon. Some fascinating

stuff. Thanks so much for dropping by on the pod today. My pleasure. Thanks for your time, guys. I appreciate it. Have a wonderful day. Elliot, not going to lie, I really enjoyed that conversation with Neil Glassberg. Hope to have him back on the podcast sooner than later. Before we wrap up, though, for today's podcast, I want to say a couple of words. It's been a really tough few days

for some of our colleagues, friends at Bell. It's a horrible part of this industry. There's no great time to do it. Do you have a couple of words for our, for our friends down the street? You know,

we had Tim and Sid on last week. You know, they were guys who started as runners, interns for the score when I was there. You know, who else did that? Christian Jack. Oh,

no way. He was a guy who started as a runner and an intern at and I remember last year sending Christian a note just about how he was on the desk I believe it was the women's world cup of soccer and I remember seeing him on it and I I sent him a note I said you know Christian, like I remember when you started and look where you are now. And just self-made in that position. I talked with Brent Wallace. We're friends. When I started at the fan, two of the bigger on-air personalities were Barb DiGiulio and Jim Richards.

I used to co-host shows with both of them and for some time with Jim in the weeknights. And I don't know. It's just, it's brutal. And I don't know Dan as well, but I know him. I don't know Natasha as well, but I know her. It's just brutal. Like I remember when there was a time in my career, I got out of school.

It was tough to find jobs. And I got a job at a place called the Sports Pages, which was an all sports monthly newspaper that was trying to start up in Toronto. And it lasted two issues and I was absolutely miserable. I went without full-time work for almost a year and the economy was bad at the time. And I remember my dad saying to me things like,

Jeff, like, you know, hey, it's not you, it's the situation. And I'd be like, shut up, dad. I don't want to hear this right now and because you don't want to hear it you don't see everybody else's problems you see only your own disappointments and um but it's true like he was right i admitted to him later that he was right and i i just hope that you know everybody here they don't see it as their own failure it's not it's the reality of the world. It doesn't make you any less at what you do or any less of a person. Although it's hard to be reminded of that.

You know, the one hope I have for people right now is twice now in the last two blogs, Jeff, I've written about people who left hockey on their own accord. Casey Nelson, who was the one player who opted out of the NHL and the AHL for the Rochester Americans, he wanted to go into real estate. And Mike McNamee, who played his last game for Greenville, the Swamp Rabbits of the ECHL, scored an empty netter and retired. And he's going into music as a musician named Boston Levi. He wants to start that career. And what we're seeing right now in COVID times is people saying, you know what, I want to reinvent myself or I want to try something new. And I just hope all these people, whether they stay in the business or they try something else, they simply go out and say,

I'm going to do it my way on my terms like a Mike McNamee is or a Casey Nelson is. Those are great words. Uh, and all true. You know, I was very friendly with Dan O'Toole, real talent. Um, we had always kept in touch even when him and Jay went to, uh, to Fox in the States, but I am like you and I just finished exchanging notes with Barb DiGiulio and I'm going to give Jim Richards, uh, a call later on Barb. Um, I remember like you, and I just finished exchanging notes with Barb DiGiulio, and I'm going to give Jim Richards a call later on. And Barb, I remember when the fans started, she was one of the more distinct voices. She had this, and she was like this on CFRB as well. She had this almost blend of authority and empathy all at the same time.

She was always in control and always trying to see things from a number of different perspectives. And it was a really unique voice that she had on the fan and then later 1010. And listen, Jim Richards is just flat out one of the most creative people I've ever met in my life. You remember when he was doing

Saturday mornings on the fan, Elliot, like how hilarious those sports shows were. And then he transitioned into a really strong news talker at CFRB. And to further your point as well about people reinventing themselves, when we started to see the list and the names that were on it and all the people that had lost their jobs, the only silver lining for all those people is the common denominator is they're all talented enough to do

exactly what you just outlined like there's not one person that i saw that i know on that list and i went oh they're really gonna struggle what are they going to do now those are all really talented people elliot and we we wish them the best well said but a couple of things want to let you know a couple things i want to mention you know. A couple of things I want to mention. One, really enjoying Christine Simpson's The Big Picture feature, which you can watch on Scotiabank Wednesday Night Hockey. Two weeks ago was an interview with John Tortorella. That upset some people, most notably Pat Brisson of CAA. And this week, Christine sat down with Oscar Lindblom of the Philadelphia Flyers.

Really encourage you to watch this piece. It's a tough story that turns into a feel good story. And as we've said before, even if you don't cheer for the team, and I know there are a lot of people that don't like the Philadelphia Flyers. You can still cheer for the player. And I think everybody cheers for Oscar Lindblom. Details are in our show description. Great job again, Simmer. Also, we're now available on Amazon Music, so you can check that out. And today, we head out west for this week's musical feature. Yes, Nice have been crafting music for over 10 years from their Edmonton studio. They just released their fifth album, Eternal Flame, and to quote Exclaim Magazine, I love this, The album is stunningly written and produced with each track an earworm liable to get you nodding your head or swaying to the beat,

even if you can't make out the lyrics precisely. That's well said. It's a great listen. Here's Yes Nice with Hollywood Hills on 31 Thoughts, the podcast. Lost in Hollywood Hills No one can return my calls Stumble down to sunset, sleep it off

Tiny white lines in the sky The man just does what he wants A little bit paranoia Don't have to tell me twice I know it feels like mine I know it feels like love's still in my arms. We'll see you next time.