32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Perry's Statement, Kane's Decision and Trade Buzz

Episode Date: December 1, 2023

Jeff and Elliotte react to the statement released by Corey Perry regarding the incident that led to his contract termination by the Chicago Blackhawks. Elliotte dives into the Nikita Zadorov trade to Vancouver and unveils what he believes is next for Calgary (15:36). Jeff and Elliotte then outline the latest details regarding Kane's decision to sign with Detroit and what teams were also in pursuit of the veteran winger (20:40) and discuss the vibe around the Toronto Maple Leafs and what possible moves they could make (39:26). The guys answer your questions in the Montana’s Thought Line (49:37) and talk to newly appointed WHL Commissioner Dan Near (58:57).Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Montana's Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

the immortal jeff the immortal wayne gretzky the immortal sydney crosby the immortal jean beliveau like it's got a kind of ring to it i have to say this is not the kind of thing that i i have to say i spend a lot of time thinking about so i could take it or leave it but the immortal i know right kevin bx welcome to 32 thoughts the podcast brought to you by the new gmc sierra hd merrick friedman and dom schrammati and we'll get right into the the big news story of thursday as we record this elliot cory perry ex of the chicago blackhawks has released a statement apologizing to the hawks organization, ownership, management, coaches, trainers, employees, and teammates.

He talks about working with experts in mental health and substance abuse and echoes again that he is deeply sorry for his actions and also makes it clear that in this situation, none of it involved teammates or their families. And he subsequently apologized to everyone who his behavior has impacted that's the latest with cory perry elliott where do you want to start on this one jeff because there's a lot of places we can go where do you think is the most important place to begin i think right now considering he just released the statement your

thoughts on cory perry and what happens next with. I still think that's too early to say. One of the things that happened when Shane Pinto was suspended for gambling, a number of players and agents and teams started asking, can you tell us exactly what happened here? I think everybody knows you can't bet on hockey. And if you do, you're facing a lifetime ban and everybody understands that and recognizes it. But there really weren't a lot of other guidelines. And so they said, what's a 41 game suspension? And so basically the Players Association started talking to players, they had zoom calls, and basically they gave out a whole bunch of things that you shouldn't do. And they took pains. They were very careful to say, we're not telling you that Shane Pinto did this, but don't do

things like, hey, give your friends access to any gambling accounts. Give your friends any information about betting on your team or in any other game whether it's injuries or lineup information don't have a bookie don't do anything illegal basically they told the players and the teams don't do this kind of stuff and you're going to be okay and I think one of the things that we're still kind of going through here is what exactly Perry did to have his contract terminated by the Blackhawks. Because Perry had a $4 million contract, $2 million in bonuses already paid, and $2 million in salary. And that's not an insignificant amount of money for all of us. But for example, say all of a sudden something comes up with a player in the middle of a long term deal, or at the beginning of a long term deal where there's a lot of money at stake,

people are going to want to know what kind of specific behavior can lead to contract termination. behavior can lead to contract termination. Because if Vanderkeen's contract was terminated, it got grieved, and he got most of the money he was owed. Mike Richards' contract was terminated, it got grieved, and they reached a settlement where he was paid a few hundred thousand dollars a year for, I think, 14 years. So everybody's wondering here, and we're still waiting to see if the grievance is going to happen. Everybody's wondering here for more clarity. And the other thing that's part of this, and when Kyle Davidson met with the Blackhawks on Tuesday morning, I heard he told them this. He said, guys, we cannot afford any kind of employee misbehavior. And so I think one of the questions, and I'm not trying to minimize what may have happened here.

Don't take it as that. But I think one of the questions everybody is asking here is, did Corey Perry get terminated solely because it was the Chicago Blackhawks, who for obvious and understandable reasons, have to be much more careful about what happens in their organization and on their watch. So I think that's kind of what everyone's wondering here. I still believe that whatever the case this was, the key incident was the Tuesday night in Columbus, the night before they were going to play against the Blue Jackets, a game that Perry was supposed to play and was scratched late. Whatever happened in Columbus that night is the key incident here.

And Perry, in his statement, talked about alcohol. And he's going to, as he says, take whatever steps necessary to ensure this never happens again. And I think alcohol was obviously a factor. But I still believe whatever happened there that night was the key issue that started this process and it is where we are today the um chicago blackhawks as we all know haven't exactly earned the benefit of the doubt from a lot of people if not everybody in the hockey community um having said that um about the handling of this situation specifically by the Blackhawks. This one felt to me, and I've worked in a corporate environment for a long time, as have you, as have many of our listeners.

This one had human resources written all over it, which entails removing the person in question from the team. This has everybody not saying anything and silenced while an investigation takes place, even though every step along the way, people were demanding answers, answers from Luke Richardson on an almost daily basis, answers from Kyle Davidson, answers from Jamie Faulkner, Danny Wertz, etc. This one looked like it was handled in a very corporate HR fashion. And then once things were completed, Kyle Davidson spoke. Your thoughts on how this was handled by the Hawks? Well, I don't think you're wrong.

You know, you and I work in an office environment. We know what's acceptable, and we should know what's acceptable behavior or not. And, you know, we know that there's things that if we do in the Rogers Sportsnet environment, we're going to get suspended or fired for it. I think most people listening to this podcast who work in any kind of quote unquote normal place of business understand that there are things you're going to do where you're going to get in trouble. I have no doubt, no doubt that the human resources department and the lawyers were all over the organization here. You don't say a thing. You let us do the investigation. And I think it should be pointed out, they got the investigation done basically in six days before they made the

announcement and told the players, right? That's pretty quick. I did have some human resources people I know tell me that a lot of investigations take longer than that. And again, I have no doubt that you're right, that they had a total blackout on this. Nobody says anything. You know, Luke Richardson has to meet the media every day. This is all you're allowed to say, Luke, and nothing else. And Kyle Davidson met the media twice, once on Saturday morning, once on Tuesday afternoon. And I have no doubt he was told very strictly, this is all you

can say, and that's it. And we saw perfect evidence of it on Tuesday. So I absolutely believe that there were unseen puppeteers making it known that this is exactly how it's going to happen. And it's going to happen by the book. The second thing here, though, of course, what you're referring to is the whisper campaign that eventually Davidson denied and then Perry denied in his statement. And I will tell you this, I think there's the legal world and there's the human world, and those things aren't often compatible with each other. The legal world is, as the Blackhawks did, this is our process. This is the law. This is what we have to follow. Everybody put a sock in it, and it doesn't matter what happens. We have to protect

ourselves. Look, they've had lawsuits. They, the lawyers are going to get what they want. And then there's the real world where something spirals out of control. People run with it because either a, they think it's funny or it's confirmation bias, which is a big deal online. It's what they believe too. So they're like, let's go with this. I believe it. And all of a sudden it spirals out of your control. And you have to manage it.

You have to find a way to manage it. You know, I was asking a bunch of PR people and saying, you know, what do you do in this case? And a couple of them pointed out to me, this is why. And to be honest, I don't know if the Blackhawks have an external media relations firm, if they hire one or have one on retainer. But a bunch of teams told me, and not only in hockey, that this is why they do keep a PR firm on retainer because sometimes you'll be so immersed in something or you'll be so, this is what we have to do, this is our process, that you don't see the forest from the trees.

And that firm will come to you and say, guys, you got something you got to deal with here. And you have to find a way to deal with it. And this is what was missed. I first heard this crazy rumor on Friday, and I asked somebody about it on Saturday, and they laughed at me and said, that is not true. And then all of a sudden, it started really going places. And I can't tell you how many people reached out. And on this story, it was people that i wouldn't expect to reach out or people that have bigger names that don't necessarily talk to me very much but they were reaching out

and saying is there something you can do here or is there something that we can do here because this is so unfair to the player and his family. Like this, there were big, big people in and around the sport who were angry about what was happening. And that rarely, it rarely happens. But it happened in this case. And what it says to me is like, I mean, God forbid we ever see this again. I hope we never do. But if we ever see anything like this again,

I hope the thing that everybody has learned is and sometimes it's tough to say because you can't respond to everything jeff like i know all those terrible things people say about you on the internet and i don't believe they're true that's all your ghost all your ghost accounts i know elliot i know i'm not i'm not responding to all of them but because you can't respond to everything. And sometimes the line is difficult to figure out when to get in and when to interfere, but you have to have a plan when things get out of control. How can you find a way to put a lid on them before they go too far? Cause this went too far. And Jeff, you and I were public figures.

We have to accept that this happens to us from time to time. And I always say that to people who get offended on my behalf. I say, guys, it's my decision what's too much. The rest of you leave it alone. But if you're a private figure, you don't sign up for this. And that also goes for who else could be involved in this particular case. If you're a private figure, you shouldn't be speculated about unless there's an absolute 100% legitimate proof reason that you should be speculated about. If you're a private citizen, no. And that's the lesson I think all of us on the media side

or those people who are in the team side have to learn from this is that you cannot let things get out of control like this. A couple of other parts of this story. In the Corey Perry statement, he did not indicate whether he plans to grieve the termination by the Chicago Blackhawks. Corey Perry has 60 days to which to decide. So two things, I guess. We wonder if he will grieve it.

The $2 million bonus has already been paid, but as you mentioned, $2 million is still a lot of money. And do you think that Corey Perry will play again? I think to answer the second question first, it depends on A, what people determine exactly happened here, or B, does he go and seek the help he needs and how long does that take? I think those are the questions that can be answered there. Someone also said to me you know if it's possible if he if he signs a contract before you know before the 60 days are up and let's just say he's signed somewhere for a pro

rated league minimum does he just say you know what that's that's good enough for me i'm i i have another contract i don't need to grieve. I don't know, but that's the kind of thing that people are all talking about today. Jeff, I think is the future of his career depends on a, what actually happened? B, does he get help? And B, you know, obviously he went away to be with his family. You know, how does, how does he feel about that again? Like, is it right for him anymore to be away from his family? Or should he just be home with them? I think those are the kinds of questions that are happening here.

And the grievance, I think it's too early to say. They've got time to figure it out. Like I said, if he picks up his career somewhere else, maybe he just says forget it. The one thing that I will say here is in the Berglund case, and I've referred to it a couple times now, in 2018-19 when Buffalo dropped Patrick Berglund, the Players Association really wanted to grieve that one and Berglund said no. And the Players Association, they just don't like precedents where contracts can be terminated. If you're a union, you should, based on your overall wiring and how you're built,

you should be against those things. So I have no doubt their interest will be protect the player contract, but it's going to be up to perry at the end of the day we hope that everybody impacted by this situation finds peace and finds peace soon okay tough to transition off that story but nonetheless okay news insert after we recorded the main part of the pod on Thursday afternoon, a trade, Calgary-Vancouver, Nikita Zdorov going to the Canucks for a third rounder and a fifth rounder. A couple of thoughts about it. When the Canucks traded Anthony Beauvillier to Chicago,

we all knew that they were going to use that open space to target a defenseman. What I didn't see was it coming so quickly. I thought they'd take a bit more time, continue to peruse around the league, some names we knew, Tanev Zdorov, some other names that maybe we hadn't thought of. But one thing we all should remember

about Jim Rutherford is, in some of the places he's won before especially, if he sees something he wants, he goes out and gets it. He gets it done early. He doesn't wait for the deadline. Examples, 2006 Carolina, he traded for Doug Waite, I think five or six weeks before the trade deadline was end of January. 2016 is first of two cups in Pittsburgh. In December, months before the playoffs, he went out and he traded for Trevor Daly, who he really liked from Chicago. So Rutherford's not the kind of guy to wait.

He moves quick. He's not afraid to do it. If he has the flexibility to do things, he will go out and strike, which is exactly what he did in this particular case. As for the Flames, look, you all remember what happened a couple weeks ago Calgary at Toronto the flames lose in the shootout the agent Dan Milstein puts out the tweet about Zdorov wanting to be traded I think the flames tried as best as they could to move on from that they you know obviously there was the thing with more Michael Backlund Asadorov keep it private they had conversations with the players keep things private but I don't think it ever really went away and the Flames didn't want to risk the chance of a repeat and they just said we want to

end this situation as quickly as we can you know Conroy at one point the GM Craig Conroy did go up to Zadorov and you know thank him for being professional in the aftermath of that. He did quiet down. He did play hard. But I think the organization wanted to move on. The advantage that Vancouver had was that they didn't need anyone else to retain salary. The other teams involved here, every other one I heard that was interested

in Zdorov, including Toronto, they needed the Flames to retain money. The Flames didn't want to do that. And by moving Zdorov off their roster and not taking a player back, Calgary is out of LTIR. They can now start accruing space and gain some flexibility to do things. That was not insignificant for Calgary. What that says for me is they have some other things in mind. And whether that's a Hannafin or a Tanev or a Lindholm, they want the ability to bring some players back in

if they have to or need to as part of this. It's interesting. It says to me that Calgary's got some other things going on. Although as I record this, I don't know how imminent. Also, the price. Last year, Luke Shen was traded to Toronto for a third round draft pick. So Zdorov, I think that's fair for his role and his ice time. That's about what it tends to be.

Because it was Calgary to Vancouver, I think Vancouver had to throw in the extra pick. They just said, look, we need a little something extra if we're going to send him in the conference, in the division. So Vancouver put the extra pick in. Not a huge price, price obviously but just something but it's clearly a player that Vancouver wanted it's clearly a player that Rick Talkett would get a lot of use out of one of the things that this tells the league is there was this feeling that

Calgary would wait and see how things would play out. And look, they're in the race. They've played very well. They're right around the wild card spots. And I think some teams thought that meant, ah, the flames are going to wait. This is a signal, no. They're ready to talk. They're ready to listen. If you want to do some business with them, you better get on the phone and call. I don't necessarily think the Canucks are done looking for D and I still think they have interest in Ethan Bear who is skating right now and I think and even though the Canucks aren't the only team looking at Bear I do like their chances providing they get to a number of Bear likes. I mean the fact is he's skating at times in canucks colors and if a player didn't

like the vancouver canucks anymore i don't think he'd be skating in their colors now back to your regularly scheduled podcast the story that everyone's been chasing over the past few months came to a conclusion the other day elliot um it is over. Patrick Kane makes up his mind. He goes to the Detroit Red Wings. We talked about this on the last podcast. You wondered about this on Hockey Night in Canada on Saturday. So really shouldn't have come to anyone as a surprise here. But are there other teams out there that we should be aware of who had either mild, medium, or hot interest in Kane?

Jeff, I know that this is a Montana-sponsored podcast, but not everything has to be about meat or ribs or chicken wings. I just like using—one thing I've noticed about you over the years is you like using analogies that you use all of your senses for. Oh never even noticed that oh yeah yeah I've always all your analogies involve things you need all of your senses activated at the same time don't worry it hasn't been lost on me yeah I didn't even notice that I'll have to change up my I'll have to change up my similes and metaphors anyway you know as your therapist boy you'd be a lot busier than you are if you were my therapist. You know, the cane, the more information,

like it was definitely trending last weekend, like Detroit was the team. I think it was hard to figure it out for a while. I know a lot of people really believe Florida. They knew about Florida's aggressiveness. You know, as you mentioned the good weather I think one of the real interesting things about this whole process Jeff is that on it's kind of like in real time like sometimes during free agency you don't often have enough

time to really understand what the player thinks or prefers versus what teams see and what they prefer. But this was a case because it was happening and there was only one primary free agent during the season, like Kane was, that we kind of got an understanding of this is what teams think and this is what he thinks. Like he, I think he really liked the idea of Dallas, but for Dallas didn't see the fit. And Florida, I think, really liked the idea of him. And I think he was intrigued by Florida. He's got a good relationship with Bill Zito, the GM there. But at the end of the day, the team, like people who know Kane, they started to come

out of the woodwork at the end as we started reporting more and more Detroit. And they were saying that if you know Patrick Kane, or you were kind of in his circle, you knew that as he began to explore the idea that he wasn't going to be back in Chicago, that Detroit was one of the places that really intrigued him. He wanted to go to New York last year. He obviously did. I think if New York was in the picture again, they would have been the Rangers much more of a contender. But for the Rangers, it just wasn't the fit. But once the Rangers were out, you know, he talked internally around people that he knows that Detroit was a really good possibility for him. It's driving distance for him. It's driving distance from Chicago. It's driving distance from Buffalo, which is another big family hub for him.

He obviously knows the brinket well. And I think the other thing that really was a big part of this, and a couple of teams told this to me, you know, sometimes, especially around July 1st, this to me. You know, sometimes, especially around July 1st, it's such a whirlwind. You don't really get a long chance to talk about fit with a player. But in these meetings, you had a chance to talk about fit. Where does Kane fit on your team? Where do you see him fit? Where does he see himself fitting? And it's very clear he understood what his hierarchy would be in each one of these teams and there were some teams where King clearly saw there was a role for him higher up in the lineup and Detroit was one of those teams like they have a top six spot available for him they have a spot on the power play available for him like for example Toronto

we talked to Toronto but you know whenever I mentioned Toronto with someone they said is that what they need you know they've got a bunch of defensemen hurt right now they've struggled to get one goalie kind of taking over they've got a lot of you know they've got a lot of scores. They've got a good power play. Where's Kane going to fit in that lineup and where is he going to fit on that power play? And I think when Kane looked around everything between the geography, Debrinket being there, the conversations he had with Iserman and Derek Lalonde, and where he saw himself fitting in the lineup plus the fact they had the cap room to give him a little bit more money I think it all you know it's one of those things you look at Jeff when it's over and you say I should have seen this the whole time but

sometimes you out think yourself of things and you always worry about being too careful or saying something that gets picked apart and turns out to be wrong. But I really do believe that the more it kind of unveils itself, the more it made perfect sense to Kane and other people. Did it seem as jarring to you as it did to me to see him in Detroit Red Wings gear? Just now. And here's the thing,

like, like last year he went to the Rangers. I get it. But there's a thing about Detroit and Chicago, like for so many years, you know, with, with,

with the rise of both organizations, whether it was indoor NHL games or outdoor NHL games, there's some hot games between these two. Like, I don't know, this is, this is Chicago and Detroit and I know they're different conferences and have been for a while now, but I don't know. This one kind of seemed jarring to me. It absolutely seemed jarring to me. When I saw that video of him going on the ice, the Rangers gear was weird enough, but it's not

a fierce rival. You know, the first thing I thought of was that playoff series where they were down 3-1, where Taves is freaking out in the penalty box and Seabrook is going to calm him down and saying, hey, Johnny, you know, cut it out. We need you. That was the first thing I thought about, that phenomenal playoff series between them.

But absolutely, it's weird to see Patrick Kane in any other uniform it's especially weird to see him in that one you know the other thing too Jeff about this I kind of wonder I'd love to know more about Colorado and what those talks were like I'd love to know more about Vegas and what those talks were like I'm I'm pretty fascinated by all this. And I think the other thing that was interesting about this is, again, you know, Kane downplayed the idea of the travel being a problem. I think there were some teams who were more worried about it than Kane was. And, you know, I think it's really interesting hearing him talk you know he had his media conference where he talked about what he can do now that he couldn't do last year

and he talked about it on TNT on Wednesday night and then Iserman talked about it like the one thing here I think about Iserman and I know Iserman met with him apparently there were a couple of teams that went and saw Kane skate. I don't know if Detroit was one of them. But the one thing I think about Iserman is, Iserman being one of the greatest players of all time, I can't imagine he's signing Kane if he doesn't look at Kane and the video or seeing him skate and say, that guy can't play.

Like Steve Iserman knows what it takes because of his own injury to compete in the NHL when you're hurt. And Kane actually said they didn't talk about it, but there's no way Iserman isn't looking at him through that lens. He knows if you can play or not with your physical limitations and I just don't believe that if Iserman felt that Kane couldn't play he would have signed him I just I find that hard to believe I'm not expecting Patrick Kane to be a 97 point player again but Iserman clearly looked at the motion and the body and said he can

help us and i i just you know refused to see it any other way it would shock me if eiserman felt any other way okay so one more question about the pat kane situation and it doesn't involve pat kane it involves all those other teams that you mentioned whether it's colorado whether it's boston whether it's toronto whether it's dallas whether it's vegas whether it's buffalo how many of these teams with their pursuit of kane tip their hand that this is what they're looking for i don't think any of them tip their hand, but eventually you find out. Like, we knew Buffalo. We knew Detroit. But we thought Buffalo right away,

considering the obvious. Yes. That's where he's from. We knew Buffalo right away. I was told Florida. I think it was in August. I was told Florida was very aggressive, and I think I'd been reporting it

for a little bit of time after that you know Detroit I think early in the season I if I remember correctly and you know Dallas I'd reported Dallas a couple of times and like I said it was clear that that was more on Kane's desire than it was in it wasn't wasn't the start, like the stars don't want Patrick Kane, but it's simple. You know, they just don't have the ability to do it right. Or, and with a cap space and we have to do something else that's more important to us. Vegas, I think was late. Boston was definitely late and Boston had a a spot for him. Like, you know, their big question was cap again. But if you looked at their roster, you know, you could see a spot for Kane.

You know, Colorado, I knew they were there, but they don't tip their hand much. Like, the one thing about this clearly is, you know, Kane wanted it to be very quiet. You know, there were times I tried to find out you know who was going to skate there were times I wanted to go interview him you know he just he just preferred it to be quiet so the people around him knew that and they kept quiet for those reasons um you know the other thing too I thought was really interesting Jeff was he did say on Wednesday that fit was as important to him as trying to win the Stanley Cup and so you know I had heard differently I heard you know winning the Stanley Cup was was very important and it's just a reminder that sometimes

you've always got to be careful because he kind of scoffed at that once you can tell he didn't like it very much so it's always a reminder that when information's in a vacuum you got to be careful of what you you talk about okay one of the other big stories of the week and we talked about minnesota uh during the last podcast and wondered that sunday afternoon after the detroit red wings beat them four to one what the future of dean evverson was going to become. And although it wasn't something that Bill Guerin necessarily wanted to do, the change was made. Dean Everson out, John Hines in.

And subsequently, the seven-game losing streak of the Minnesota Wild ended against the St. Louis Blues. Your thoughts on the coaching situation in Minnesota? This, to me, is exactly what happened with Jay Woodcroft in Edmonton. And that is that they got backed into a corner and they had to do something. There is no other explanation in my head. I don't think Bill Guerin wanted to do this. You know, Mike Russo's had some really good stories the last couple of days. It was obviously a very emotional meeting when Bill Guerin called in Dean Evason. And I think that tells you that Guerin, you know, Guerin's a fighter. He's happy to fight you. He's happy to argue with you. I remember last year, I think I told you this,

when Gustafson's case got settled before arbitration, another manager told me, I'm actually shocked that, I can't remember if it was a manager or an agent. It was someone. They said to me, I'm actually shocked that that one didn't go to arbitration because Guerin just loves to argue and fight with people. And so, like, you know that Guerin is battling and battling and battling. And I'm not blaming Everson for this.

We've got holes in our lineup. We've got 15 million. I mean, you know everything. But finally, you get to a point where you just you can't hold on anymore. And, you know, I've told the story before about Chuck Fletcher, when he fired Mike Yeo, the owner there, Craig Leopold finally said to Fletcher, you know what you have to do here, right? And, and, and that's when Fletcher knew that it was it was time, you know, you couldn't hold on anymore. And, you know, somebody called me on Sunday. And they said they said you know that story you've told about

you know Chuck Fletcher Mike Yeo and Craig Leopold well it's getting to that time in Minnesota and the firing happened the next day and so look like Minnesota has some of the worst defensive play in the league this year when you take a look at goaltending in D, they are a lot worse than they should be. There are players who haven't been scoring. You know, Matt Boldy got his first goal in 12 games. You know, Goudreau, who was a big Everson guy, he got off the side when they won the other night against St. Louis. You know, there were a lot of problems there that were bigger than Everson, but it finally got to the point where Guerin couldn't hold out anymore. And I think the other thing that is a problem in Minnesota is,

you look at them, you say, well, make a trade. First of all, you never want to trade good players. As one GM always tells me, there's a reason a team wants to trade someone and it's your job to figure out that reason. But I really don't think that Guerin has a lot of players there who other teams would want to trade for that he'd really want to trade. He's a bit more limited there. So that only made his challenge a lot tougher. I would say this about Everson though, Jeff, in Russo's interview, he talked about, he wants to get back into coaching quickly, but I didn't realize his wife's a flight attendant. So he was thinking,

he was talking about, know going to europe hopefully in business class if you can get upgraded there and spending 24 hours on her layovers in beautiful cities and i gotta tell you if those were my two options tempting going immediately back into coaching or barcelona for a night i might take option B for a little while. You know, just on a lighter note, I mean, I'm going to miss watching Dean Everson. I'm going to really miss lip-reading Dean Everson. I'm going to miss the expressions

behind the bench of Dean Everson. Like, I always sort of marvel at coaches and how they behave, and you can see a lot into their personalities as well. He was one of my favorite coaches to watch. The cutaways to Dean Everson and Elliott were usually always gold. Well, someone said to me there's a thread of them on the internet that is just hilarious. I don't know where it is, but someone said,

have you seen this thread of dean evison reactions or like it's really now i'm really dating myself here dom you won't know this movie because you're like a baby but jeff do you remember the movie scanners i never saw it but i can i can see the poster in my head of course that's sort're the same vintage so scanners was a movie by a guy named david cronenberg he did crash not the crash that won the oscar but the crash which is a really gruesome twisted film and david cronenberg had a real incredible imagination and basically in scanners people have the power to make your head explode and every time i saw dean evison lose it on the bench i thought we were two or three frames away from a real life version of scanners

you know he he's a like he'll coach again there's no question and obviously coaching is in his blood he's gonna do it again. Like he squeezed a lot out of that orange. You know, the most interesting thing that someone said to me, and this was another coach, and he said to me, he said to me, that guy is a really good coach and he will coach in this league again and he will be successful. And he said that all the coaches in the NHL hate referees to a certain

extent. Right? And I go, yeah. He goes, he's on the high end. He's on the high end. And they said that one of the things they wonder is when Eison uh takes his next job if he will dial back on that a little bit that was that was the one thing he said to me because he said look we all hate the officials it's kind of our job to hate the officials because we bark at them so our players don't get in trouble but there he said there has to be a line. And he thought that Everson was higher above the line. And he said that when he was earlier in his career, he was high above the line. And eventually as he got along

and became more of a veteran coach, someone from his organization came and said, dial it down, you you're gonna hurt our team so i just you know i just wonder about that but he's a great coach no doubt um and i agree he'll he'll coach again now you spent um the better part of thursday morning and the early part of thursday afternoon around the toronto maple leaves in advance of thursday night's game against the seattle kraken what's the vibe there right now first of all i learned a really interesting story around the Toronto Maple Leafs in advance of Thursday night's game against the Seattle Kraken. What's the vibe there right now?

First of all, I learned a really interesting story about Vince Dunn today. Vince Dunn's grandmother, her name is Judy Paylor. That's his maternal grandmother. And she has a goal to see him play in every rink in the NHL. He talked about her a little bit to me. Oh, no way.

She sounds like an incredible lady, and she has a goal to see him play. And same with the parents. They want to see him play in every rink in the NHL. He says they're about a third of the way there, but I wanted to mention that. I thought that was a really interesting story. And before I get to that, just now, just about the Kraken.

To me, the Kraken. To me, the Kraken, they need a scorer. And I think I've said this before about them. One of the things some of their players say they've noticed is that teams are doing a much better job on their defense coming up the ice. Now, Haxtell made an interesting point. He said that last year, and maybe the numbers are a bit off at this time they have 57 points i had 57 points from their d and it's down to 50 so it's not that bad but a few of their players were saying they've noticed that they just don't seem to be generating

as much from their d and it's because teams and they think that teams are paying a lot more attention to them with it but like to me the kraken and just somebody like they had real good success with sprung your buddy and and tolvanen like i i'd love to see them with one more good score but those are hard to find you know with toronto um so they said that Giordano's injury is a few weeks. Klingberg's out likely for the year. Lilligren's been out a while. I think the Maple Leafs are sitting there saying, how good are we? One of the stats I look at is regulation wins, right?

Because even though the overtime is supposed to be fun in the shootout some people like it some people don't like it it is completely irrelevant to the way playoff hockey is played so I think first of all it's smart that the league went to regulation wins is the first tiebreaker and second it's the stat I look at and going into Thursday's game against Seattle do you know how many regulation wins Toronto has? The same amount of Jacksons that were on the victory tour. Five. Ooh, that's a good one, Jeff.

No problem. That's really good. Yes. The answer, Jeff, is five. It's tied for the second worst mark in the league. And even on Mitch Marner night in Toronto, when he scored a hat trick and scored the shootout winner, they're still at five.

Seattle's one of the teams they're tied with. Montreal's lowest in the NHL at four. And I think that's an important stat. Now, I think, look, if you're looking for a depth D and you don't have to give up a lot to get them, fine. I think if you're getting someone with term or you think you can sign, fine. But a pure rental D for a bigger price, I wonder if they see it.

You know, I bet you they're looking at it like, I don't know if we should do this right now, unless they think they can sign someone. The one potential exception I could see to all of this for the Maple Leafs is to get Tanev into the organization. He's a Toronto guy. Tree Living signed him. I bet you he'll have a good idea of what it'll take to keep him. That's the one guy I think Toronto goes hard to get because even if he's acquired as a rental I think they're going to be pretty confident they can keep him but we'll see interesting uh we wonder as well what Edmonton is looking for and we know that the Oilers have been closely attached at the hip following around

sneaking around corners with the Columbus Blue Jackets playing footsies however you want to describe it uh what's Edmonton looking at here? Because we all assume it's net minding. Is it? They've now been in Columbus at least twice in a row, right? They were there to see them play Boston on Monday in one of Columbus's best performances of the season where Spencer Martin was in goal.

And then they saw them lose to Montreal on Wednesday with Elvis Merzlikens in goal and I think a lot of us were saying oh okay they got to be looking at the goalies because Daniel Tarasov is coming back off injury and even though he might need a conditioning stint in the American Hockey League unless they're planning on carrying three goalies they might have to do something here now after I wrote, someone reached out to me on Thursday morning and they said it might not be goalies Edmonton's looking at. Like, it probably is.

It makes sense. Like, the circumstantial evidence makes a lot of sense that they would be looking at Columbus for goalies. However, this person indicated to me it might be more than that, that they might be looking at some of the other players Columbus has on their roster. And now it's my job to kind of figure out who, but I don't think this is necessarily a goalie move or a goalie only move. The other thing that should be pointed out here is Edmonton plays Thursday night in Winnipeg, and then they don't play again till next Wednesday. And that means they don't need another goalie right now. But Jack Campbell has now had, now I haven't seen him,

so I'm going based on what I've been told. But Jack Campbell has had three pretty good results in a row. He had a shutout, his third last start. His second last start, they lost 4-2 with an empty netter. But he made 33 saves. And on Wednesday night, they beat Henderson 4-3 in a shootout. And he had 39 saves in that game, including he faced 19 in the second period and 7 in the overtime. So again, I haven't seen it.

I only go with what I'm hearing from people who have been at the games. But I do think it's the plan to play him in Bakersfield at least one more time this weekend. And I think if it goes well, they're going to consider bringing him back up. So maybe that will be the first move. Campbell returning as opposed to trading for a goalie. But like I said, someone told me they might not just be watching the goalies in Columbus. They might be watching some of their other players speaking of goalies making headlines this week we'll get to the thought line after this one devin levi sent down to rochester by the buffalo sabers had to happen i think so the three goalies weren't working there uh you know the other thing too

is people frame this oh it's a failure he's going back to the minors no it people frame this, oh, it's a failure. He's going back to the minors. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it isn't. No, it's not. That is stupid talk. This guy is an incredibly talented guy

and there's no shame in the fact he needs to go back to the American Hockey League and just get, first of all, play a bit more. Like whenever it's three goalies, it's bad for practicing. It's bad for the third goalie, play a bit more. Whenever it's three goalies, it's bad for practicing. It's bad for the third goalie, whoever's not dressing.

He got hurt too. He needs to play, not sit. He needs to practice, not rotate with three goalies. The other thing too is Buffalo has done right by Levi in the chances they've given him like he can't look and say they haven't given him the opportunity they absolutely have they promised him last year they weren't going to block his way around the NHL they didn't and he's going to be back it's not going to be too long he's going to be back and he's going to be a stud. This is a speed bump on the way to success.

Yeah. You know, like you look around the NHL, like we've talked about this countless podcast and on the radio show, goalie's the hardest position to transition to in the NHL. We've seen defensemen come from junior hockey and NCAA and slide right into a lineup. It's rare, but it happens. We've seen it with forwards as well.

With goaltenders, you don't see it. Now, I admire Buffalo's thought that just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean that it can't happen. It's just that the odds are overwhelmingly against you. And so in one sense, I applaud Buffalo for trying. And I also applaud Buffalo for coming to their senses and saying, with this case and most, if not all cases, goalies need time in the AHL.

Elliot, even if it's only 20 games or 30 games, and who knows how long it's going to be, it's not the end of the world, and it makes you a better netminder. It really does. That is the history of the game. That is the story of the game. So no shame there.

And I think that we all know how Devin Levi figures in with the Buffalo Sabres and, and here's the other sidebar to all of this, Elliot, how Devin Levi fits into the future of Canadian hockey as well. Not exactly a secret that team Canada could use some goaltenders in the future. And I think a lot of us have our eyes on Devin Levi.

I never even thought about that. You're once again, you are going, you're like Gretzky, man. You're, you're not looking at where the puck is. You're looking at where it's going.

Please Buffalo. Don't ruin a Canadian goaltender, please. Let him go to the American Hockey League. We need Devin Levi in the American Hockey League up here. Thank you, Buffalo Sabres. On that, we'll hit a break. We're going to come back with the Montana's Thought Line

and the new commissioner for the Western Hockey League, Dan Neer. Back in a moment. Listen to the 32 Thoughts podcast free on amazon music included with prime okay elliot it's time for the highlight of your week when you get to read your tagline because it's a montana's thought line montana's barbecue and bar canada's home for barbecue try the ribs i would recommend the deep pride pickles but that's just me so after monday's pod dropped i got a text from a frequent listener of this podcast who said you've got to come up with something different than try the ribs. I'm getting tired of hearing try the

ribs. Look at something else on the menu. And then Boston San Jose Thursday night, here's Jack Edwards. Giovanni Smith gets in a couple of hooks and Frederick gets up punching, try the ribs. So the lesson we've all learned today is if Jack Edwards says try the ribs, it's try the ribs. 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca is the email. 1-833-311-3232 is the phone line. Okay, let's start off with a voicemail. We're only going to do a couple of these this week. We'll do more on the phone line. Okay, let's start off with a voicemail. We're only going to do a couple of these this week. We'll do more on the Monday podcast.

We have Dan Neer, the new commissioner of the Western Hockey League, coming up in a couple of moments. So we're going to do a couple of these and then default to Dan in the next segment. Here is Will in Los Angeles. I was watching Buffalo at the Rangers last night. The Rangers took a too-many-men penalty. The Sabres had possession of the puck,

and they played for like a minute before the Rangers got possession back. My question is, if you know you've taken a too-many-men penalty, why not keep the sixth guy on the ice to try to win back possession? You're going on the penalty kill either way. Great job, guys. Thanks. Great call. I actually don't think that's a bad idea. You know what? So I reached out to one official and I said that to him. And right away, he said,

that's what you should do. And I said, so there's no additional call? He said, no, that's the smart thing to do. And I said, you wouldn't call it if he left the man on the ice. No, why would we we call it they already have the call it's already too many too many men on the ice why would you put that player on the bench it's a it's a great point what's gonna happen because of this what someone's gonna do it and steven walcom is gonna send a note to all the officials saying which one of you idiots told jeff merrick it was okay to do this it's this it's the smart play because they already have the penalty leave that player on I know it's the smart play but now you've basically said that there's nothing they can do so it's going to start happening no you have to change the rulebook Elliot because there's nothing in the rulebook once you already have the call it's impossible

to change the rulebook they can't all agree on anything it's uh that's a great one uh when i it's a good one i got i i say this when i got it's when i got that on on wednesday uh before the podcast i was like oh will in los angeles that is a good one um okay here's a quick one uh keith in australia hey guys love the pod but like everything in life, it could always use a little less leafs and more sends. Here in Australia, the National Rugby League has a Hall of Fame, but there's also a category of players who are afforded the title of quote, an immortal, signifying they are the absolute best of the best and can only be elevated to immortal status after they've been admitted to the hall. At present, 110 Hall of Fame players, 13 are acknowledged as immortals. Would you support a similar category in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

Great job, Jeff. Great job, old Dom. Great job, everyone. What do you think? I don't know. I'm hot and cold on it because when it, when it comes to things like immortals, I wouldn't just, I wouldn't just use it for players because I'd use it for the Patrick's and what they meant for hockey back in the, in the teens and the twenties and the effects of which were still like a lot of the things that they changed about hockey.

We're still playing with right now. So I'd, I'd put the Patrick family amongst the immortals. Like I know we all think about Gretzky and Lemieux and Mount Rushmore, et cetera, et cetera. But I don't know. I kind of like it the way it is. But then on the other hand, there is something really cool about being called an immortal. So I kind of go back and forth on this one.

I like it, but I also like it the way it is. How's that for some fence sitting? The immortal Jeff Merritt. The immortal Wayne Gretzky. The immortal Sidney Crosby. The immortal Jean Beliveau. It's got a kind of ring to it, I have to say. It really does.

This is not the kind of thing that I have to say I spend a lot of time thinking about so I could take it or leave it. But the immortal Kevin BX. Oh, geez. Sounds the immortal Dom Sromati. It sounds good. Let's finish up with a voicemail.

Let's go to Illinois. Hey, guys. This is Keaton from Illinois calling about the Patrick Kane signing to Detroit. So as a longtime Kane and Blackhawks fan, it was tough to see him go to the bitter rival. And I was just curious if you guys could think of any other examples that are that high profile of a legend in one franchise being signed in the relatively near future to their bitter rival. I know it's a little different because of the division realignment, but Blackhawks versus Red Wings, it's one of the best.

I love the pod, guys. Take it easy. That's a great question. That's a great call from Keaton. Anything jump to mind for you, Frej? The one I really think about a lot, and he didn't go directly there, and he didn't go directly there but i still remember when he showed up in the quebec nordiques uniform oh yes oh that's a good one yeah it even oh it was at the end of the career had left the canadians in 85 and it was you know basically four years later he showed up in quebec i just remember looking at him in that nordic uniform and thinking wow like there will be canad that were impactful but not like like brian trache being

a pittsburgh penguin i'm sure there were people who didn't like that who were islander fans but the le fleur le Fleur in a Nordiques jersey I'll tell you you know what actually when we interviewed Trotche we talked about this it's not NHL but it is hockey

do you remember in the 1984 Canada Cup when Brian Trotche played for Team USA of course there were players on the Canadian team like Bossy when Brian Troche played for Team USA. Of course. There were players on the Canadian team, like Bossy, who were mad at him for that.

And he's like, I want to play. We talked about it in our interview with Troche. He was really good talking about it. So I think of Le Fleur as a Nordique, and I think of Troche in a Team USA. You you know the other one i remember is is marion hosa but hosa had been in ottawa and atlanta and he was only in pittsburgh for a short time but the penguins fans hated the fact that he went to the red wings to win the stanley cup because the red wings had beaten them the year before, and then he lost. Like, I remember we were there for the Wings Cup banner night, and he stayed in the dressing room while they lifted the banner.

And Penguins fans were just furious at him. But I don't think that's as big as LeFleur. Like, LeFleur to me is the biggest one. Bobby Hulik is nowhere close to Guy LeFleur. But my first thought was Bobby Hulik going from the Devils to the Rangers. I remember having dinner with Holik once. We became friends after he retired, and I asked him, I said, how come it worked out in New Jersey so great

and it didn't work out with the New York Rangers? And he said, Jeff, the reason is simple. If Bobby Holik is your third-line center, you're going to win the Stanley Cup. But if Bobby Hulik is your first line center, you're not going to win the Stanley Cup. And with the Rangers, I was the first line center. Bobby understood himself better than maybe anybody else in the game.

He probably should have told him that before he signed that. What was that, five times nine? Yeah. Probably should have told him that before he signed that. What was that, five times nine? Yeah. Probably should have told him that before he signed it. No way, man. He bought himself a ranch in Montana. Thank you, Mike Gillis. That was a great contract for Bobby Haleek.

That's the Montana Thought Line. 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca is the email. 1-833-311-3232 is the phone line. We're back with the new commissioner of the Western Hockey League, Dan Neer. Please be joined by the new commissioner of the Western Hockey League. You know him from Adidas Hockey, all you reverse retro fans, and there are many of them. He is Dan Neer, and he joins us on 32 Thoughts to the Podcast. Dan, first of all, congratulations. Welcome to the podcast.

Thanks, Jens. Good to be here. The pleasure is ours. And first of all, let's trace back a little bit before we have a look at the future of the Western Hockey League. Why was this position appealing to you? Well, I think you guys know a little bit about my background, but I spent 10 years at the NHL office between 06 and 16 prior to being at Adidas. So I had had a league office experience, and I think I understood a little bit about the dynamics of working with clubs, working with fans and consumers, and bridging those things together. And, you know, my personal situation was an interesting one. Adidas and the NHL, our relationship is winding down at the end of the current NHL season.

And while I had landed somewhere interesting at Adidas and was doing some really cool and exciting stuff, it wasn't hockey. And it's funny, if you had asked me five or six years ago, I wouldn't have said that that would have been a deal breaker for me. But as it started to wind down, I thought about the relationships and the work that had been done and the collaboration. And the idea of it going away was a little troublesome to me. And not to the point where I was out like, I've got to solve this problem. But coincidentally, Ron Robison, the 24-year vet here, announces he's going to retire at the end of the season. They bring the search firm in. My phone rings a couple times, and it starts to turn into a discussion.

And is it just the fact that it was a job in hockey? Absolutely not. I think this idea of a personal ambition of being someone who has a longstanding impact on the sport and on the game. I like underdog properties a little bit. And while the WHL has tremendous history and is super well established, there's also a lot of work and grinding that needs to be done. The organizations are lean and people are expected to dig in. And that all fits the culture that I like to operate in. to dig in and that all fits the culture that I like to operate in. And so a combination of things all kind of happening at the right time. And maybe the last one being, hey, I got middle school aged

kids. And if we're going to move, it better happen soon because I don't want, you know, family's important to me. I don't want to disrupt their high school experience. And so the family's going to relocate up here at the end of the school year. And Calgary will be home for the next little while. Dan, there's a lot of things you said there I want to follow up on. And one of the things you kind of talked about was the challenges going forward. And I was going to leave this to later in the interview, but now you've done it. So I'm coming right at it one of my biggest concerns about the WHL and I mentioned this on on a podcast recently is that there seem to be a lot of individual fiefdoms there that only think about themselves and don't consider what is good for the group and sometimes

that means you make decisions without you know talking to enough people or considering the impact it could have on other people and i think that has to stop for the good of the sport and the league and i wanted to ask you if this was a concern at all for you that you're coming in there and teams aren't there are some teams there that aren't really used to or accept being governed by a central entity? Yeah, it's a good question, Elliot. And I give the hiring committee and the governors a lot of credit in the approach they took here. It would have been very easy to just choose somebody. There's lots of people in hockey.

There's lots of people familiar with the Western League who could have stepped in and taken this job. These guys, they hired a firm called Turnkey ZRG that has appointed probably more commissioners than the aggregate of every other search firm in the U.S. And they built a position description around what does the future look like for the Western Hockey League and what do we need out of this leader? And there was a true acknowledgment of some of the things you were talking about. And I think what I mean by that is this notion that we need a strong voice. We need standards in how we operate. We need a strong voice. We need standards in how we operate. We need to understand that there are moments when the collective good needs to trump the individual priorities. And I spoke about this a little bit in the press conference today, in that we can't have a situation where the same winners keep winning and the same losers keep losing, not on the ice, but in the boardroom. We need a situation where we need to be mindful that there are different markets,

different conditions, different situations, but everyone should feel good that leadership, being the commissioner, has them in mind but is working for a situation where all boats will rise. The worst thing we could be doing is a bunch of things that involve splitting the exact same pie a bunch of different ways. We need to grow the pie. We need to bring more fans in. We need to actually protect our flank as far as player recruitment in Canada. protect our flank as far as player recruitment in Canada, and we need to be more aggressive in bringing American players into the game and into the league. And all of that is connected to what you're saying and creating an ecosystem and infrastructure that is professional and offers with true governance

and is not influenced by the fact that one or two folks might be upset by one decision or another because at the end of the year, there's some level of balance that we're looking at for everyone, but the collective is consistently on the rise. To follow that up, are there different, I don't even know if powers is the right word, but I'll use it. Are there different powers that maybe you have in your job that previous WHL commissioners didn't have? Well, we starts with no. How they're administered, I have to investigate that and learn. Will we do things the same or will we change in some regards?

Are there some areas where we would look to write amendments in an effort to address some of these opportunities and commitments from the member clubs that as a group, we wanna do some things differently. We ratify changes and amendments like that through board of governors votes and so on and so forth. And so, this won't all happen overnight, but I expect that those are the types of things we'll review and evaluate. And going back to the original question

and then connected to this answer, while I was being interviewed for this role and you asked if it's something that I considered, I was also interviewing the board, right? This needed to be a place where I felt that I didn't just have the right skillset, but they were gonna allow me to use that skillset and do the things necessary to make an impact.

And I really felt an openness there, maybe even more so than I expected based on walking into the room and dealing with owners, owner operators who have teams to manage and P&Ls to balance and all of that. And so I'm confident, guys, that there's an opportunity to move in a great direction there. Given what we saw in Wenatchee this year with Kevin Constantine, will your office have more power to oversee hirings or is that still at arm's length? You mentioned recruiting a couple of seconds ago.

And listen, if I'm a U.S. college recruiter, I point at that situation, and my job just got that much easier. With your role now, and given what's happened most specifically in Wenatchee, will you have more influence on how teams behave and how teams hire? Well, I want to be careful about speaking to any specific situations

because I actually haven't been read in on all of the background on all this, but I know enough about the situation you're referencing to say, look, I think that I believe the league has a responsibility to create standards, expectations, programming, and not just the Western League. I think that it has to be CHL, WHL, and club level that foster safety, that fosters inclusivity, that involves commitments around policies and initiatives that reflect the values, so to speak, of not just what we want the org's values to be, but the fan, the consumer, the player's values. And so I would anticipate playing a really active

role and having discussions early and often about what are the things we can do to continue to foster safety, inclusivity, make good decisions, make sure that everything that's happening in the league is, at the end of the day, better for the collective. And that might be an indirect way of answering your question, but I'm aware of it, and it's a critically important area of business for me. Okay.

One of the things I've noticed about the last few years is that, you know, the American Hockey League had an issue last year where some teams tried to change the president and they talked about wanting more of a marketing background. The Ontario Hockey League is right now in its search for a new commissioner and it's talking about a marketing background. Dan, as you mentioned even though you've had league jobs before you are known for your marketing background in 10 years if you are successful in your new position how different will the whl look well uh that is a really good question 10 years is a long way to look at it. See, Jeff? He didn't say that about any of your questions. But like, here's what I think on that. I think that, you know, you talked about things like coaching and hockey ops decisions and that and, you know, and those types of matters.

But I think that the evolution and how we think of a collective is really, really important. And I've used this example before, but I'm gonna talk about reverse retro. And, cause you're both familiar with that concept and the momentum and energy it created and how unique and different it was.

Well, guess what? Introducing an alternate jersey with throwback attributes wasn't the most innovative part of it. Yes, we we remixed it and we created design aesthetic and elements that really did make the product unique. But I think one of the reasons it caught fire is because of the way that we told the story and we told the story together. And and what I mean by that is rather than saying,

hey team, what's your launch day gonna be for your alternate or your throwback jersey? Oh, you're gonna do it Tuesday night versus whatever team and you hope it'll sell some tickets and you're gonna do a koozie giveaway that night. Alternate jerseys have often been leveraged in that way, and they're very local and micro. And I think what we tried to do is to say,

well, hold on a second. Let's tease and launch this thing together. Let's create tools and content so everyone's will look a little bit the same. Let's use copy and hashtags that are consistent so you can start to create trending moments outside of the regular sphere of influence and then create on sales and even scarcity and the availability of product. And guess what? And we talked about this, Elliot,

at least on the first Reverse Retro, the idea that a fan of the Edmonton Oilers would be interested in what the Pittsburgh Penguins jersey is, was a huge unlock. NHL fans aren't spending a lot of time following other club social media accounts or paying attention to what they're doing. But there was this magical thing with Reverse Retro, where we created momentum and an event that was pop culture relevant. And so let me swing it around to the Western League. And I think, you know, it might be a uniform concept, it might not be. But I've talked to some of the governors and influencers in the space about, okay, you guys might remember there's a kid named Jet DeChamp that I think he was in camp with Regina. And he's little, I think he's 16 years old, but he made a lot of noise

at camp. And we said, well, where's Coach Chippy? Where's on the bench? How are we trying to take a moment like that and create national connectivity with Gen Z around someone who's super relatable to them, comes across as a pretty everyday kid that is lighting it up and doing magical things on the ice. And so, you know, long way around your question, Elliot, but you talk about thinking about marketing as a way to influence the league and its path forward, I imagine us being on a different stage. I imagine us being something that people are more invested in. I imagine people wearing our brand and wanting to connect to our brands in ways they haven't before. How we're going to get there, it'll take time. And I don't have all the answers today. I haven't even started. But

that's the journey I think we want to get there. It'll take time. And I don't have all the answers today. I haven't even started, but, but, but that's that's the journey. I think we want to go on. Does that, does that journey include the name, the Western Hockey League? And the background on the question is there's always been a sort of undercurrent conversation. I can remember first hearing it at the Top Prospects game in Niagara in 2015 of rebranding the CHL. Instead of Quebec Major Junior League, Ontario Hockey League, and Western Hockey League, it turns into some type of variation of CHL West, CHL Central, CHL East to strengthen the CHL brand, which for our listeners that don't know is the

umbrella organization to the Western League, the Ontario League, and the Quebec League as well. Is that a non-starter for you? Rebranding the Western Hockey League as maybe something like CHL West? So I'm not quick to call anything a non-starter, guys. It's not really in my nature. I like to think about things and talk to different stakeholders and weigh the implications of it all. But at the same time, I will say we have a great deal of pride in what the Western Hockey League is as a member of the Canadian Hockey League. Western Hockey League is as a member of the Canadian Hockey League. And it's not to say that we would make a decision where pride trumped what made the most sense as far as expanding and growing the relevance of our league and our business. But it's premature for me to be able to give you any kind of even warmness on whether that's something we'd consider.

What are your thoughts on fighting in junior hockey? My thoughts are that we need to be mindful of player safety. My thoughts are that we need to ensure that the rules of the game that we're overseeing connect to those of the NHL and we're preparing as the best development league in the world. You know, 20% of opening night rosters this year came from the WHL. Our rules and the framework of the game has to in some way mirror what's happening with the NHL. Again, it's very,

very early and I want to listen. I want to hear what people's POV are and not just executives. I want to hear what players' point of view. I want to hear what fans' and sponsors' points of view are. But my predecessor and the current Commissioner, Ron Robison, has been unequivocally clear that it's not a current agenda item for the board. And so it's not for me today. But it is an exploration that, of course, I'll want to hear what stakeholders' points of view are. But it's not something that I'm coming in here actively seeking to change. What did you like most about the Western Hockey League? When this came open, you said earlier, you know,

you thought about wanting to be involved in the league again, but there could have been other options like Ontario, for example. Why this league? So there's a couple things. One, I really revere the heritage in this league, the franchises, the names, the idea that it is indeed by a lot of metrics the best development league out there right now. Maybe the word might be density around, there's a lot that's spread out on the western side of North America versus the concentration of all the hockey in the other areas. And then this notion or concept that there is room to grow. And when I say grow, I think it's expand our impact and influence. And when I say grow, I think it's expand our impact and influence and not a criticism to anyone.

But the U.S. division, to me, is a huge opportunity that while we're playing games and we're selling tickets and we're selling local sponsorships there, that could use more attention, local sponsorships there that could use more attention, that could be higher profile. I think that fans will be interested in watching Western League games streaming, broadcast, and we're really pretty underdeveloped and untapped there. And so not to say we don't have anything, we need we need more visibility to the sport and so i think that you want to go into an environment where you think there's a lot of upside where you think that you can make an impact and there are a bunch of dimensions about the whl that seem to to fit that opportunity for me when you talk about growth um of the league um you talk about growth of the league.

How much of that do you mean, not just within the Western Hockey League itself, but also against the Western Hockey League's counterparts in the Ontario League and the Quebec League? And what I want to get to here is maybe a little bit of an uncomfortable situation or a conversation for some people, but this is a league that cranks out a lot of high-end players, but haven't won the Memorial Cup going back to 2014 with the Oil Kings. And I know there were a couple of, a couple of pauses as well with the

Memorial Cup wasn't competed for. How much of a front burner issue is that for you getting the Western Hockey League competitive in the, in the Memorial Cup tournament every year? Fair question. I know it is a little bit of a sore spot. So yeah, you are ruffling some feathers there. Typical. Very typical. I'm not deterred by it.

We do have the most teams, right? So when you think about the player pool being spread out a little bit more, I think you have to take that into consideration. If you have less teams, you're condensing the player pool and you know the difference between having a championship team and having a runner-up team. It's razor thin. And so I think there are some factors and considerations that go into that.

It is not just a point of pride. It's an imperative that we bring a Memorial Cup back to the Western League. It's something that is talked about. I don't know what the tactics are going to be yet, guys. I don't know. I haven't met with the managers. I'm eager to hear what they think some of the variables are that drive that. But I'd be lying to you if I didn't say that one of the things that we'll measure success on is how many more Memorial Cups come our way.

Dan, one thing I just wanted to ask you in general is how do you think advertisers perceive hockey? We all have these questions about where we are and where we're going. How do you think it's perceived, the sport, whether you want to talk NHL or overall? The level of competitiveness as far as advertising and sports marketing is really escalating right now. And you guys know that. And I'll use an example of something like the National Women's Soccer League or even the PWHL. Or, like, you look at NCAA women's volleyball and the explosion that has happened. Nebraska.

Yeah. I had a chance to go to the Final Four last year. And it's incredible. But what it is, it's creating a much higher standard that you need to meet to bring advertisers into your business. entity for advertisers and sponsors is being able to show the loyalty and connectivity that your consumer has to the point where you can generate transactions. So if you're a sports marketer in the cell phone business, yes, you want brand recognition. And so the number of viewers really, really matters. But really what is going to generate the true return is how many people subscribe, how many people buy your products because of the connection. And so where I feel really strong and comfortable, guys, is that the NHL and the hockey consumer's propensity and thereby the WHL consumer's propensity. I'm still learning about our profiles here, and so I speak about the ones I know,

but I'm going to imply that the hockey consumer operates in a consistent way. Really, really high degrees of loyalty. And if you really want to get squishy on this, which occasionally is fun to do, you think about the notion of hockey teams and the notion of playing for the crest on the front, not the name on the back. I think fans kind of think of that in an interesting way too. Being a hockey fan, being a supporter of a certain team, you're a member of a unique community. And especially on the U.S. side, because it's a little

bit more rare to find diehard fans in some of the communities. But by virtue of being part of that, I think that you want to be associated with the brands and you want to be associated with the partners who are active, who also treat themselves as hockey brands. And so I think that leaves us, while in a super competitive landscape, in a position where we can continue to interact with consumers in a super authentic way, and by virtue of that, bring advertisers and brands to the table. And, you know, I'm coming from Adidas. And I would tell anybody in the building at Adidas that I go do some math and ask and try and figure out how many ultra

boosts are being worn on NHL concourses and measure that up against an NFL concourse as far as a percentage of the people there. I guarantee you there's more Adidas fans in NHL buildings as a percentage of the overall than in other sports because of the hockey fans' propensity to connect the brand with the sport. Why did Adidas leave then? Or did they leave? So, you know, tough timing, tough circumstances. I think that I got to be careful. I'm not on the pod today as a spokesperson for Adidas, but rather of the Western League. And I'm still employed there. But I think that the market conditions have got really, really challenging over the last little while. And at the timing when we had to make some decisions about the future of the hockey business,

Timing when we had to make some decisions about the future of the hockey business, it just couldn't come at a worse time and left us in a position where, unfortunately, we had to bow out. And honestly, it's a little personal, right? It's a little personal because leading the team that was involved with all of those things, we thought we did some really great things. But it ended up being something that wasn't going to be a priority of the brand moving forward. And we had to accept that. Dan, let me finish up with this one. Now we have a lot of listeners from Winnipeg and we all understand the situation with the old ownership and the arena and the inevitable move to Wenatchee. I know this is, as we do this interview with you, your first day after the press conference, you officially take over on January the 1st. Your first day after the press conference, you officially take over on January the 1st. But whether expansion or relocation, is there a future for the Western League in Winnipeg?

Well, I haven't even started yet, guys. And so, again, it would just be speculation. But personal opinion, I would love for there to be a Western League organization in Winnipeg. And I think it's the type of market where we can be incredibly successful and where there's a fan base and an appetite for hockey that is unbridled. And so, you know, as you mentioned, complicated circumstances led us to where we are today. But I hope someday Western Hockey League can be back in Winnipeg. And my last one is, when's your first game?

I've been going already. So my kid plays double-A hockey in Vancouver, Washington, technically. And our league is like the Western League. We play in Seattle against a couple teams up there. We play in Tri-Cities. We play in Spokane. So I made a covert visit on our way up to Spok against a couple teams up there. We play in Tri-Cities. We play in Spokane. So I made a covert visit on our way up to Spokane a couple weeks ago to Tri-Cities and took in a game there. And then the next night went to Spokane, full building. It was wild. It was,

again, it'll be more fun to do, I think, when I'm on the record. But what I can tell you is my son and his buddies, who are super connected to the hockey community here in the Northwest, or not here, but in Portland's Northwest, are pretty jacked about it. And so I'll be in the rinks a lot. Okay, I know you can't have a favorite team while you're the commissioner, but before you became commissioner, who was your favorite team in the Western League? I'm not going to answer that. Good, because you know what i was wondering like because i could see what jeff's looking at here conspiracy theory

jeff wanted some reasons to look askance at some of the games i thought it might have been softened up from the press conference would have got him a little bit later on in the day but good for you dan listen thanks uh congratulations again uh very much looking forward to what you're going to do with the Western Hockey League. All the best. Thanks guys. Appreciate it. All right. So that's Dan near the new commissioner of the Western Hockey League. He officially starts on January the 1st, 2024. As you can tell, the plate is already full. A lot of things to do with the Western Hockey League is they try to grow this

thing into something new while still maintaining their history and their heritage. We thank Dan for making himself available moments after the official press conference, welcoming them, welcoming him in as the new commissioner. That's it for us today. We are back on Monday morning. Have an enjoyable weekend. Enjoy a few days of hockey, watching hockey reading and for this podcast, hockey listening. We'll talk to you in a few days of hockey watching, hockey reading, and for this podcast, hockey listening. We'll talk to you in a few days.