32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Persuading Pettersson

Episode Date: March 1, 2024

In this edition of 32 Thoughts, Jeff and Elliotte open the podcast by examining the events of the past few days that led to the Canucks and Elias Pettersson reportedly making headway on a new contract. They follow that up by discussing the Ilya Lyubushkin trade to the Toronto Maple Leafs (14:36) and then, Jeff and Elliotte unpack the Chris Tanev trade to the Dallas Stars (18:55). Jeff also focuses on the Stars side of the deal and hones in on the use of their draft picks (22:49). They then proceed to provide an update on Noah Hanifin's future (27:37), talk about the Nashville Predators and whether Juuse Saros is on the move (29:48), and ask if St. Louis sealed their fate following a loss to the Oilers (36:06)?  They wrap the first segment by commenting on the LA Kings and what Rob Blake is thinking these days (38:34). The fellas answer your questions in the Montana’s Thought Line (45:01).Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Montana's Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

The only thing that Dallas needs to trade is a new nickname for him. That is a terrible nickname, Stank. Just terrible. His name is Stankoven. I don't know. It's still bad. Welcome once again to 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Boy, do we have a lot to talk about today. Presented, as always, by the GMC Sierra, along with you, yours truly,

along with Elliot Friedman and Dom Schramatti. Elliot, let me frame this Elias Pettersson in one very specific way, and that is power. So fighting out of the blue corner, Elias Pettersson, who going back to your infamous interview on the boat in Stockholm,

isn't sure whether he's ready to sign and he's happy to take his time. Power move. And fighting out of the red corner, the Vancouver Canucks, who are frustrated with this, want this to come to a conclusion. And if it doesn't, they're engaged in a conversation with the Carolina Hurricanes to trade Elias Pettersson. Power move. Are we looking at a clash of two power moves here? One from Pettersson, one from Vancouver. That's quite an analogy.

It's been a long day. I had a good laugh while you were doing that. Look, I don't think it's quite like that. This isn't the octagon's i don't think it's quite like that this isn't the octagon i don't think but what i try to go for something here yeah what i do think is that look it's it's the rights of the player and what the team thinks is best for it uh and look like petterson is perfectly within his right to say look i'm not ready to sign yet. I've negotiated contracts myself.

I've been in those kinds of situations. There's times I want to do it, and the front office or management says, yeah, Elliot, we're not ready yet. And there's times they want to do it, and I'm not ready yet. Anyone who's ever negotiated a contract has been in that kind of position. Patterson is well within his right to say, I'm not ready for this yet. Then there is the organization and what it thinks is best for it. And Nick Kiprios made a really good analogy on Thursday night in our Arizona-Toronto pregame. He brought up the name Matthew Kachuk.

And if you'll remember, a couple of years ago, Kachuk went into the summer with the Flames and said, look, I'm going to play out my last year, but I'm not signing. And what happens from here on in is up to you. Pedersen's contract is up, but he has another year as a restricted free agent before he becomes a UFA. And I got to think that on some level, the Vancouver Canucks are looking at what happened to the Calgary Flames one province over. And look, he's a great player. They're a real good team. They could win the Stanley Cup this year.

And I think some of it is the noise I don't think there's any doubt on that uh Pedersen admitted to Ian McIntyre in a really good article on sportsnet.ca that the noise was bothering him a little bit I mean how can you not be human? Rick Talkett has talked about he feels that the noise is affecting him. I believe that the Canucks management feels that way too. And they want to know what their situation is going to be, not only this year, but into the future. only this year, but into the future. So I think that's kind of why we are where we are right now is Vancouver. The right of the individual is Pedersen saying, I'm not ready. But what the team is saying is, we can't wait any longer. We need to know the answer. Now, the talks with Carolina, those were legit. Carolina made an offer. I don't know what it was, but at the very least, it made Vancouver think.

Now, I had people who said to me, there's no way that Jim Rutherford was going to do it. They didn't think there was anything that Carolina could offer that would allow Jim Rutherford's team to be as good this year as it is with Pedersen on it. And that's totally fine. I understand that opinion. I don't know 100% that Rutherford would have made the trade either. But at the very least, he brought it to the table and said, if you're not going to give us an answer, this is something we're going to consider. And I think in that moment, and Pedersen had made it clear he wanted to punt this to the summer.

I'm just like, I've been on the other end, too. You talk about negotiating contracts. I've been on the other end to you talk about negotiating contracts I've been on the other end before of pressure tactics you have to decide pretty quickly do you buy what's being told to you is it a tactic how do you feel about it how quick do you need to make a decision all of that stuff anyone who's been part of a negotiation understands it and i think in the moment patterson said okay this is possible and he did i think he did agree that the pressure and the intensity has been really hard he said talk to my agents i i give

you permission to talk to my agents now i, I think on and off, they've been doing that already, but now they've got a serious attempt to get it done. There's a couple things that happen at this point. There are some people who are optimistic that we'll get there there You know, there's a few people who said just Don't jump too far ahead. There's a process that has to happen here But There is some optimism The other thing here though I wonder about is what's the contract gonna look like like I don't think the Canucks

are afraid to pay this guy I I think they've made that very clear I don't know what the term is going to be one of the things you learn about uh CAA which is JP Berry and uh Pat person here is if you look at a couple of the other recent deals, and one of the ones I remember is Owen Power, one of the reasons that got done was they moved it from an eight-year Buffalo offer to a seven so he could sign his next deal when he was 29. Now, I don't think we're talking about that here. Pedersen's going to be 26 later in the year. But I wouldn't be surprised if they at least investigate

what kind of length of term could we sign here where he could sign one more big contract so I have wondered if we could be talking about somewhere in the five to six year range I don't know but I think it's possible all of these things are going to be investigated sorry Jeff before we move on here, I would just like to say a couple things about Thursday night's loss to LA. Number one, I think Pedersen deserves a lot of credit for showing up to meet the media. It would have been very easy for him to take that night off.

Instead, he goes out there there he stands up with his teammates talking about the rough loss he does clarify says he is only gonna talk about the game and won't talk about anything else but it would have been easy for him to hide and I think in the moment that was a big message to his teammates and everyone that he was gonna be just as accountable as everyone else I thought that was very very important in the middle of all of this. Number two, it's not going well for the Canucks right now, but again, I'm not going to panic about this team.

I think they were due a streak, a bad one. They hadn't had one all year. They're in it now. But I just think that they have to get through the next seven days. It's not easy. It seems like forever. I think it's grinding that team, the organization, and the fan base, obviously. I think they just have to get through the next seven days and everything will settle. It's like I said, it's, it's going to seem like 700 years, not seven days till we get there. But I think once they get through that and everything settles, I think they're going to be fine.

Are you, um, are you surprised at all that this, that the Vancouver Canucks went this route? I mean, all season long, it seems as if the idea was that, you know, there was a bag of gold waiting for Elias Pettersson when he was ready, and then all of a sudden, there's this pivot. Like, and I don't know if this is true or not, but if Elias Pettersson has his backup about this, I would understand. Because it seemed as if the entire season, it was going to march towards this inevitability at some point, probably after the season, into the offseason,

and then something just changed. Snap. Are you a little bit surprised at least that Vancouver went this tactic? That we have a trade and if you're not going to sign, we need to explore this. No, I'm not surprised. I've been around long enough to know that these things happen. I've been around long enough to know that these things happen. Look, again, I think the Canucks feel that they've got to know. I think everybody, like, to be honest, Jeff,

like, I don't like talking about this. It's the same thing I said about Calgary. Like, after a while, you're like, I'd really like to move on to the next story and we don't have to talk about this anymore. I just think the Canucks have decided they need to know the answer and they're trying to do what they can to get the answer. You know, I had some people say, you know, is Pedersen going to be upset at them for this?

You know, are there going to be hurt feelings? I don't want to speak for Pedersen. That's up for him to decide. But, you know, that's, there's a lot of people who kind of listen to these kinds of things and say, that's what happens in the real world. These kinds of conversations happen all the time. People try to pin down their leverage or use their leverage. And I just think, you know, Jeff, it's usually a lot of these negotiations, everybody kind of knows where everybody stands. I think players know when a team wants them,

and I think teams know when a player wants or doesn't want to be there I think in this particular case the Canucks want more clarity I it's Pedersen is is a really interesting guy in the sense that he's very good at keeping a lot of his feelings to himself i think a lot of people like i understand that when the news got out that he was considering extending i think some of his teammates were really surprised because it's not what they expected so if the players feel that way then how does the management feel and i just think they they want it what's what someone said to me that this one's unique in the sense that generally people have a good feel for where everybody stands by this point in the season and the other thing too is jeff like we've been talking

about philly and sealer and walker that's a negotiation this hasn't even really been a negotiation because pedersen's wanted to wait which makes this even more unique yeah i keep coming back to the word risky on this one by this move like listen again like this is well within vancouver's rights to do this just like it's well within as you've mentioned elias petterson's rights not to sign until he sees fit to sign um i just i i just wonder about because again like i don't know elias petterson I wasn't there on the boat in Stockholm with Elias Pettersson. Yeah, but it's not like he's telling me everything that's going on through this too. All I'm saying is, and again, Rutherford's been through this a million times.

But to me, the whole thing just seems, I don't know, it just seems a little bit risky. But then again when you force a decision there's going to be some risk attached to it i suppose yeah i mean look like i mean jeff you like i always try to put myself in everybody's shoes I have always believed that as tough as negotiations are, if you make the decision to stay, you move past it. So if it continues to go in this direction and you reach a point where you say, if I'm going to take the money, you have to close the book and you have to move on and do what you do for that team and I have no doubt that Pedersen will play if he signs he's going to play really hard for the Canucks and he's going to do great things for them I think that's you know people say well is is he going to remember that in five years or is he going to remember that in eight years?

If you take the money, my rule has always been, hey, I could have said no and I could have walked and I took the money, time to move on. Okay, speaking of moving on, we'll move on to a couple of defenseman stories here. And before we get to Chris Tanev, as we're recording this podcast, Ilya Labushkin is now a

member once again elliot of the toronto maple leafs a deal with anaheim that uh brad for living pat for beak had been working on before the game against the arizona coyotes um and we'll get to the the mark giordano injury here in a couple of seconds well i think you have to kind of mention it right away because yeah they were talking but all of a sudden Well, I think you have to kind of mention it right away because, yeah, they were talking, but all of a sudden it intensified. Yes. You know, Giordano gets hurt. And first of all, you want to wish the best to Mark Giordano.

Oh. You know, that was a really heavy collision into the boards. And you just hope that that's not going to be a long-term thing. They said he had injury after the game. They didn't know. Just wishing him the best and hope he's going to be okay long-term thing. They said he had injury after the game. They didn't know. Just wishing him the best and hope he's going to be okay. He's gone through a lot lately. Yeah, and while it wasn't directly as a result of the injury,

there's no question that that exacerbated things. They were looking for a right-hand shot anyway. They know Lubushkin and Carolina, by the way, gets a sixth for being the partner to three-way do it. As a matter of fact, he comes in now, Lubushkin, at below the NHL average. He's just under $700,000. So Bradshaw Living gets a little bit of work done there. There's still room for moves for the toronto maple leafs and we'll see what happens before next friday at three o'clock you know i gotta tell you something like i'm i'm wondering about

like they they were looking at a lot of right shot d you know they were looking at david savard i think but that's an easy easy one for montreal in the sense that they can just kind of sit there and wait and say, you have to come to us and make us do it. Well, he's got a term. He's got one more year. He's got one more year. Sit by. I heard Nick Jensen was kind of a name that they were looking at.

You know, one other guy I've wondered for Toronto, if it would make any sense for them, is a guy like Mario Ferraro. if it would make any sense for them is a guy like Mario Ferraro. Just because, you know, he's a guy San Jose's looked to move and he's a local guy. But, you know, he's a left-hand shot and they've got a lot of left-hand shots. I think the priority right now is righty. But, you know, as I was kind of looking around, that was another name that kind of stood out to me. But I think Ferraro could fit in a lot of places. So you're right. They still have room to do some other things.

But those were definitely some names that they were kind of looking at now that a lot of people's number one ready trade target was off the board. And that's Chris Tanev, and let's get there. And it almost seems as if, listen, now that know tanov is gone and labushkin is gone i am going to ask you if we're going to see a run-on defenseman here but first uh chris tanov is now a member of the dallas stars and the primary going back artem grushnikov a big hard-hitting uh russian defenseman i saw him play a little bit with hamilton helped them what do you think I like him but then I like defensemen that leave a bruise and that's what he does like he blocks shots he hits hard he's not going to

give you much offense um as one uh as one scout said to me he has a little bit of gutus in him and and that's true uh he's big he's tough you know I uh I talked to Jay McKee about him and you know Jay like Jay McKee loved him he's the coach's dream, the guy that stays out after practice for a long time, the last guy to get out of the gym, to do anything to get to the NHL guy. I think the Flames are going to like him. Not for the same reason they're going to like Hunter Bristevich, who's a completely different player, and that's a defenseman

they got from the Kitchener Rangers in the Lindholm deal, but he's a hard-hitting physical defenseman look he's young he's a couple of years away as well but he sort of fits the mold of i think what calgary likes on the back end you know they have agility they have mobility now they need a little bit of hostility and they get that with with this defenseman artem grishnikov so So that's my nickel and dime thoughts there on that defenseman. But I'm curious about the timing, what Calgary got in exchange, anything around the Tanev-Dallas deal catch you by surprise? Not so much by surprise.

I mean, I think people figured Dallas was going to be the team for a little bit of time. I just believe that if Tanev was going to end up in Edmonton or Toronto or Vancouver, they were going to have to pay more. They were going to have to really blow Calgary's socks off. That was really going to have to happen for one of those three teams to get it. You know, Dallas made it very clear that their top three prospects, Stankoven and Maverick Bork and Bischel, were not going to be involved.

So Calgary went down to... You know, the funny thing about this player is I keep getting him confused with Denis Grubeskov. Every time I hear his name, I think of Denis. I don't know why. Grushnikov. Grushnikov. But it's getting into my head. So I wasn't surprised he ended up there.

You know, Dallas didn't want to do a first rounder for a rental. And, you know, one of the things that really changed here, Jeff, is that remember a couple of years ago, they changed the CBA so that no longer were draft picks on a condition of a player signing. Like this is one case to me where you could have seen a situation where Calgary would have said to Dallas, second rounder, but a first if you resign him. But you can't do that anymore. And I think Dallas will try to resign him. I just don't know what the possibility of it is. I think Tana's market's going to be pretty robust in the off season. But, you know, it's interesting. They basically got two seconds because he was a second-round pick. And I was having this debate with a few people today.

What's better, a first or two seconds? And there were people who felt the first is always better because your odds are better. But one of the things that you and Jason Bukala and Cosentino have talked about is that after about 20 this year, and the Stars could pick really late, especially now that they have Tanev, the draft really drops. And, you know, like, there was a lot of debate about the prospect, which you talked to us about here.

I'll be the first to admit, I am not an expert on this. I don't like commenting on these guys I simply don't know them but what someone said to me and this is a manager he said if you believe that this player is better than what you're going to get in the late first round this year then you make the deal and but the one thing that a few people said to me is, he's still pretty green, and he needs more time in the AHL, and the worst thing that the Flames can do is rush him. They said that in a Canadian market, sometimes you feel the need to show, hey, this is how good this guy is, and we have to show

him off to our fans. I had a few people say to me that that is what Calgary has to avoid. Don't rush him. Let him get his AHL time. And just one other thing about Tanev and the Flames, Jeff, I think Calgary tried to sign him. Very late in this process. I can't give you the exact time, but I think Calgary tried to extend them. And unfortunately by then, I think Tanev was just like, it's been too long. It's time. And I think this will be a great thing for him to chase a Stanley cup and see where he ends up in the summer. But I do think Calgary made one last attempt to sign him. With the Dallas Stars specifically, you know, we make a lot about this team and the 2017

draft, the one that, you know, shot new energy into the Dallas Stars. And that's when they grabbed Haskin and that's when they grabbed Ottinger and that's when they grabbed Haskinen. That's when they grabbed Ottinger. And that's when they grabbed Jason Robertson. Just like a spectacular draft that set this team up for a long time. But with this one, I can't help but thinking about 2021. So in the 2021 draft, the Dallas Stars flipped first rounders. Okay, here's where we start talking about, you know, what's more valuable, a first round pick or two seconds, etc. So they flipped

first rounders with the Detroit Red Wings. Okay, so 15 and 23 flip. Detroit at 15 takes Sebastian Cosa. Now this is the net minder. That was when Steve Eisenman had, like you remember, Elliot, no goalies. And I think I even said on this podcast with you, and you snickered at me,

he should use every single pick on a goaltender because there are no goaltenders in the Detroit Red Wings system. They grabbed Kosa. At 23rd overall, the Dallas Stars took Wyatt Johnston. Home run pick. And then at 47 in the second round, they take Logan Stankoven. One pick later, they take Artem Grishnikov,

who they now turned into Chris Tanev. And if they win the Stanley Cup this year, and they could, like they are that good. This is a really, really dallas stars team as much as we think about 2017 the final piece if the dallas stars are indeed done who knows but tana is a big one maybe the biggest piece here at trade deadline for the stars all started in 2021 with the trader draft picks with the detroit red wings yeah i uh i don't disagree with you i love those stories man you know how i love that kind of stuff yes it's a great it's fantastic it's it's very very

interesting very very interesting it's you know and now he's got three goals oh stanko they're probably yeah they're probably sitting there saying there's no way we can send him down. But the cap situation being what it is, they're going to have to figure out some way because players know who deserves to be there. Coaches know who deserves to be there. How do you send them down when everybody's healthy? Listen, you mentioned those big three, right? You mentioned Bork and you mentioned bischel

as well like um like don't look now but maverick bork's number one in scoring in the american hockey league too like there's another one that's knocking at the door of the nhl stankhoven has been a i threw this tweet out on thursday night you know matt rempe in in new york with the rangers is a new sort of cult hero he He's 6'8". Dallas has a 5'8 cult hero that everyone's going absolutely berserk about in Dallas. I'm with you. How do you send the

guy down? Fans love him. He's producing. Teammates love it. It's a great story. Fantastic story. How do you send this guy down? The only thing that dallas needs to trade is a new nickname for him that is a terrible nickname stank just terrible name is stank i don't know it's still bad it's just awful i'm sure they'll get on that right away elliot but i

think fans kind of uh endeared i've endeared themselves to it already oh he's a heck of a player and you know what you like you like an underdog too five foot eight right people love an underdog absolutely what's the uh what's the old saying a uh a small player has to prove that he can play and a big player has to prove that he can't this guy has proven that he can play, man, every single time that he's out there and he's producing. Dallas just got another shot of energy in the shoulder here. They look real good.

And Bork is not far away either. No, not at all. And he's, as I mentioned, leading the AHL in scoring. He's right there. I think you talked about this earlier in one of your blogs, like somehow, some way, they have to find a way to get both these guys in the lineup this year because they're right there and they're ready for NHL duty. And the other AHL coach said,

I can't wait to be rid of these two guys. Who else do you have your eyes on right now? Just, I mean, Noah Hannafin is still a big one that's out there. I had Craig Conroy on the radio show on Thursday and tried to go down, you know, go on a fishing trip with him, but he wasn't going to bite at all about anything to do with Noah Hannafin. But what do you wonder about with the big deal on Calgary? So it's clear here that, you know, Hannafin, first of all,

has some trade protection, but he's trying to move it to where he wants to go, right? Like places like Tampa Bay or places he wants to extend. And on some level, it's probably a better deal for Calgary if he gets traded with an extension. The other thing here, too, is I think their ask is higher for Hannafin than it was for Tanev. But I do think that Hannafin is trying to work it the best way he can. So the Flames, they're going to have to make a decision. Do we allow Hannafin to talk and basically pick where he wants to go? Or do we

just make the best trade we can make and let it play where it lies? And I think we're still kind of in that process. You know, one of the other teams I've kind of wondered about here, like the Florida teams have gotten a lot of attention, Tampa and Florida. I think, obviously, Boston, New Jersey. I've wondered about Washington, if Washington is a player in this too. Because I think Washington is looking to make some changes,

but I don't think they really want to go to rock bottom. Like I could see Washington having eyes on Hannafin. So that to me is the question here is, does Calgary say, all right, we're going to cede some control over this? Or does Calgary say, we're just going to take the best deal as long as Hannafin can't block it there and we'll just let it play out that way that's the big question for me uh don't look now elliot but the nashville predators just won seven

games in a row beat the minnesota wilds six to one roman yosi with three points uc sorrows 33 saves with three points uc soros 33 saves preds look really really good um and i mentioned this on tv on wednesday that as long as they're in a playoff spot unless they get something that totally to your to your analogy knocks their socks off uc soros is not getting traded. Nope. Well, you know what I think it is? Let's go back to the whole situation with U2. No, no, no. I'm actually being serious about this because I think this plays into Nashville's thinking. This is after the 9-2 game.

Yes. So as we talked about, they had a trip to go to U2 and the Predators canceled it, the organization. And, you know, the players publicly have said all the right things, but, you know, they were upset. But since then, they have been nothing but pros. Like, absolute pros.

They've gone on a tear. They're in the playoffs. They, you know, like, so it's like being a parent, Jeff. If you're going to punish someone, you have to reward them. Like, that is the thing i thought about absolutely is the predators said okay we're not going to do that but now when the players have responded and even better than you would have hoped that they would have responded you have to be able to say hey guys like you did this for us now we've got to do something for you and this is what you how you have to pay them back this is

you have to say look guys you've earned this and we're gonna do this now I think the one guy who's a little bit different and I listen to some of trots comments is is Tommy Novak if they can't get a deal done um Trott's kind of because because I think there's a there's quite a bit of interest in Novak he's a really talented guy and he doesn't make a a ton of money he's making 800k and I I I kind of have heard that maybe some non-playoff teams might be interested in him too, simply because that's a guy you can have for next year. Like Novak's not going to be an $8, $9, $10 million free agent.

He's probably going to be somewhere in the fours, and everybody would like that. He's a skilled guy too. So I really do think that that's the one guy that if they can't sign, they might move based on what Trott said. But I think a lot of it is, hey, if you're going to demand better

from people, you have to reward them when they do it. Because Nashville had a lot of guys out there. They had Trennan out there. They had Carrier out there. They had Kari out there. They had Fabbro out there. Novak, Saros. Like, they had a lot.

Like, a week and a half ago, people were like, you have to start talking about them more. That's the team that you have to watch. And now, like, they may not do very much. Those players, you know what? I got to say, like, those those players they deserve a lot of credit because you know i had people telling me after we reported that they're gonna pack in their season and because they're gonna they're so upset and they have not done that like that they have done the exact opposite like those guys are pros very impressive good on them uh absolutely you know i haven't even

mentioned the game that you worked on thursday night that's the arizona coyotes and the uh the toronto maple leafs um a couple of things there you already mentioned the mark giordano injury and yes we hope for a for a speedy recovery well good prognosis initially uh and then a speedy recovery with uh with whatever's happened now to the to mark giordano and the and the head injury um but joseph wall returns in this one uh maple leaves haven't seen this net minder since december your thoughts on his first game back well i thought he won he was very solid um if you saw the highlights of his american hockey league game last weekend the lovel rocket they and they should they made life very hard all over them and Arizona did too they were very aggressive and on top of them and that's what you need and

I thought he held up really well I like this this Toronto situation it's fascinating as we talked about some of the D that we think they they could be interested in what they're going to do but you know their goalie situation is fascinating you know wool was the number one when he got hurt uh samsonov looked like it was done he's resuscitated his season martin jones nobody would have imagined he would have been the savior before the season he was and i really believe that one of the reasons toronto's not going to put him on waivers is a team like philadelphia to meilly, what they do in the next week, one of the biggest tells will be what they do in goal.

They waive Peterson, he cleared. They've got Sandstrom up. But I think they would consider a really inexpensive move if they really wanted to make the playoffs. Someone said to me, if they make an inexpensive move in goal, like they're not trading a first round or a second round or for a goalie, I don't think, but if they could get someone for a really low pick, that would be a sign that they're very serious about making the playoffs.

But I think if Jones ended up on waivers, like that's the kind of team that would claim them. So I think Toronto is going to hold three. I think they're well aware of that. And the other thing in this particular game is that Holmberg hit waivers. He played his 70th game. So Toronto's going to have a bit of a roster crunch. And there's only two guys on the roster now,

Nyes and Robertson, who can go down to the minors without clearing waivers. So it'll be interesting to see what kind of roster machinations they do. But the biggest thing is that Wall looked very good, I thought, in his first game back. On Wednesday night, the St. Louis Blues lost to the Edmonton Oilers.

They picked up a point because it went past 60, but you're Doug Armstrong. Did that game finally make up your mind? The one thing, like St. Louis in the last little while, there's been times I've seen them, I've really liked them, and there's been times I've seen them and I'm like, oh my

God, I can't believe what I'm watching. The one thing is Bucinavich. There's still a a bit of time. Armstrong has set a high price on him. And I think what's going to be interesting is if, you know, who's going to pay it. I think teams are going to think about it. But are they going to pay it?

Like, I think Edmonton's a team that would consider the idea. I think Vegas is a team that would consider the idea. I think Vegas is a team that would consider the idea. You know, I wonder if teams like, you know, Florida and Carolina would consider the idea. Again, Florida doesn't have the draft pick cachet, but they have cap room. You know, so, you know, to me, there's all these teams that are kind of in the same area like the the genzel teams uh edmonton vegas carolina florida um you know they're definitely there are others um and i i think a lot of those teams would be similar for Bucinavich too. And then depending on who doesn't get them or says, we're not going to be able to afford to get them, then they kind of move on and say, okay, we're looking at the Tarasenk's and and some of the other players here so that's that's kind of what we're

dealing with at this point in time I think is do teams believe that Armstrong's price will come down or do teams just realize that if we're going to acquire this player we're just going to have to pay Doug Armstrong's price because he's not budging. But there's no question, like him and Gensel are probably the two top wingers available unless there's somebody I'm missing out there. There's always one surprise trade. We know it. Sometimes it happens early. Sometimes it happens at 2.59 Eastern on trade deadline day.

There's always something. Before we get to the Montana's Thought Line, just a thought on the Los Angeles Kings. I guess the team has been dinged recently with injuries. Do you have a thought on what's going through Rob Blake's mind these days? Well, one of the things that I kind of looked around at is that Arvidson, Kempe, Anderson, and Grundstrom, all of whom are out, they are not going to miss the rest of the season, which is, you know, really good news for them.

You know, I don't like to see people get injured and miss a long time. So it's really good news for all those players. They're expecting them over the next month to return. What it means is that cap space is going to be an issue. So unless he's going to subtract something, and I think we're all kind of looking at Matt Roy, who's a really good player. I like Matt Roy a lot. Another right-hand shot D I probably should be including in a lot of these conversations. They're not going to subtract too much. Now, one thing I do think, you know, Kaliev was a healthy scratch in Vancouver on Thursday night, and I do think that they are, I've talked about this,

they're looking for a bit of edge. Like, that's one of the things that's kind of, like, the Kings, when they were at their best, they were a really hard team to play against. Oh, yeah. And, you know, but the one thing, too, Jeff, is that they're really well-structured. A lot of really structured teams are pretty hard to play against, but they don't have – they're not bruising.

And I think if they could add something like that, they would. But the issue is that all of those players are coming back, so they won't have the cap room. Like Mark Stone is not going to play the rest of the regular season you know we'll see about the playoffs but he's not going to play the rest of the regular season they know that they have that ability that slot to add LA doesn't doesn't have that I think also too just a couple other things I wouldn't be surprised if Calgary considers adding like an NHL defenseman at a relatively inexpensive price.

You know, Tanev is off the roster. That hurts their roster. You know, I think they were going to have an internal conversation about that. Is that something we want to do? Eric Johnson. Well, I don't know about Eric Johnson, but that kind of thing is a possibility.

I wondered about a guy like the Rangers are kind of looking around. I wondered about a guy like Kyle Ocpozo for them. I always try to think of Chris Drury and USA Hockey connections, and Ocpozo is a kind of guy like that. It's going to be interesting. Like, like you said, there's always the one big deal that comes.

I'm still waiting to see, I'm trying to fish out. I always try to sit there and fish out. What's that one big deal? Like I'll, like I'll say this, some of the guys I've wondered about, I should have mentioned this was St.

Louis, Brandon Sod. He's got two years remaining. So I kind of wonder, you know, are teams going to be crazy about that second year or not? But he's a good playoff player. I should have mentioned also with the Blues,

Scott Perunovic. He needs to play 14 more games or he's going to beoff player. I should have mentioned also with the Blues, Scott Perunovich, he needs to play 14 more games or he's going to be an unrestricted free agent, one of those group six players. So he's a guy I wonder about. Like, just unfortunately a guy who's been hurt, but he's a talented guy. Does he get a situation somewhere else? So there's a lot of kind of situations

here that i'm and the other thing the other team i've been thinking about a lot is ottawa and josh norris unfortunately he's going to be out for a while i think everyone's really sore to hear that. I think Ottawa would really like to do something bigger than a Tarasenko or a Kubelik, but I just don't think it's going to be now. I think that they're, you know, teams that talk to them, they really do sense that Ottawa's willing to consider something bigger, but they're not convinced it's going to be now is now the right time you know i wonder about we'll end on this one nick schmaltz with the arizona coyotes

and the reason i do one really good player two he has a cap hit that is lower than his actual compensation which does not really jibe with the Arizona Coyotes. He has two more years left on his deal. Next year's total salary is 8.4, the cap hit 5.8. Then after that, it's 8.5. I wonder, because when we focus on the Arizona Coyotes, we look at players like Matt Dumba, players on expiring contracts. I really wonder what they're thinking here with Nick Schmaltz.

You ever thought on that one? Well, I heard last year there was something really close there that Schmaltz was close to going somewhere. I initially thought it was Carolina, but someone told me that I was wrong about that. It wasn't them. I've always kind of wondered where it was going to be. I think Arizona's UFA guys, Zucker I expect something with,

Dumba I expect something with. I don't know about their guys who still have contracts. You know, Schmaltz, I understand why you're mentioning that. But, you know, I haven't heard anything. That doesn't mean it's wrong. I just don't know. I hadn't heard anything. That doesn't mean it's wrong. I just don't know. I hadn't heard anything. But I just heard it was less likely for some of their guys who have term.

The other thing that they have to deal with is, and you can tell, they haven't won since the Utah announcement came that they were interested in a team. There's a lot of people there, especially the ones with families. Obviously, the employees are very concerned for obvious reasons. I think the players, too. You're sitting there, you're wondering about your house, you're wondering about your kids. If the team moves, do you want to go to the new city?

There's a lot weighing on those guys, a lot. Absolutely. Okay, on that, we'll step away. Montana's Thought Line, right after the break. Listen to the 32 Thoughts podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. Time now, once again, for the Montana's Thought Line, Montana's Barbecue and Bar, Canada's home for barbecue, Elliot.

Try the ribs. 32thoughtsportsnet.ca, that's the email address, 1-833-311-3232. We're going to start off today with a clarification from Anonymous Trainer. That is indeed your real name. I think it might actually be the real name. This person is choosing to remain anonymous

for a reason that's going to become obvious in two seconds. Okay. Hey guys, I'd prefer to remain anonymous as I answer this as I've worked as a trainer in hockey for many years at multiple levels and continue to do so today. To answer, this goes back a couple of pods, Nick from Grand Rapids question, there are many players in pro hockey who wear contacts. Most teams will have their eye doctor

provide extra lenses for each player with corrected vision and or the players will give the trainers extra sets of their own prescription lenses. Each set of contacts is labeled with the associated player's name or number and a set is typically kept on the bench for games and practices as well in the medical room. Sometimes contacts randomly fall out of the eye slash eyes and they need to do a quick replacement on the bench, or sometimes there's other problems they can dry out, fold up, get dirty, etc. that require changing into a new pair of contact lenses. Contact solution and extra contacts are a common supply in the bench medical kits. I can't recall any players wearing goggles or glasses in the past 15 or 20 years on the ice, but contacts are not uncommon. Mr. or Mrs. Anonymous Trainer, thank you for clarification

on that one. Okay. Very good. Thank you very good thank you here's the first question kelly in if i can read this correctly moose jaw saskatchewan a little slap shot poll there for you kelly from moose job hey elliot and jeff kelly from moose jaw saskatchewan here i love the pot of course i was wondering what happens if a referee sees a penalty happen and puts his arm up, but either wasn't sure who it was in a scrum, or maybe the play goes on long enough that they forget which player committed the infraction. What happens in that scenario? I had never considered that before. Well, I've never seen the forget one before. Like that one is, that's pretty funny but like maybe it happens but

i've never i've never known it to happen that's so hilarious i reached out to our our friend our good buddy dave jackson and and asked them this one uh having no idea what would come back so dave goes funny first he says you point at the bench and in a real authoritarian manner, you point to the penalty box, cross your fingers and hope that somebody goes to sit down. If not, the accepted procedure has been to call the in arena video goal judge and have him assist you with getting the number right. I never would have guessed that, Elliot. No, I didn't know you could do that either. No, but that's the answer right i never would have guessed that elliott's that you go no i didn't know you could do that either no but that's that's the answer right there okay paul in sacramento california dom jeff elliott can a player besides a goalie be credited with a save during kings

versus ducks last night one of the many two-on-one rushes given up by LA, the Ducks took a shot that was served by defenseman Matt Roy, who had his stick in the crease. The goaltender, Dave Riddick, was on his way out of position, and this shot was for sure a goal if Roy wasn't there. Do the Ducks get credit for a shot, and if so, who gets credit for the save? Riddick was nowhere near the puck and had no chance. Or is it simply a blocked shot and the Ducks get no credit for a shot? Great job on the pod. Keep up the great work. G-K-G. Go Kings go.

Actually, Jeff, to be honest, Marner made a save the other night and I meant to check. I don't know. What's the answer? It's considered a blocked shot. Players block shots. Goalies make saves. What's the answer? It's considered a blocked shot. Players block shots, goalies make saves. It's the same thing. Just for the player, we don't call it a save. We just call it a blocked shot.

It would be kind of funny, though, if Marner was the save percentage leader. Who was the king you mentioned the other night? Dave Riddick. No, but who made the save? Oh, Matt Roy. Mitch Marner and Matt Roy are the league's block shots leaders at a thousand that's awesome uh i like that one um that's a good question daniel from toronto hey elliot jeff and of course dom thank you for keeping me entertained while prepping for

a half marathon i want to do that good luck i used to do halves all the time i want to get back into that um much running no no well yeah duh um but always good and okay okay always a good laugh when jeff starts saying no one is listening by this time and i'm almost done my run thinking if i wasn't i'd mean i would finally be done this damn run but anyways with the news of matt murray seeing pucks and returning to the ice, I was wondering if he becomes healthy enough to play, are the Leafs forced to activate him? Or since he has already been cleared for LTIR, can they keep him there until they have the room and the cap is no longer a consideration? Basically, does the NHL check in on these cases

or is it a check once and move on? Can't wait to try the ribs as soon as this damn race is over. I would say this, that the league is much more careful about looking at this than they used to. It used to be a lot more laissez-faire. Now it's much more we want to make certain that a player who is healthy to play is able to play. And we talked about this a little bit the last pod. Teams are accusing a lot of teams a lot more often about LTIR abuse or salary cap cheating. And the league is much, much more on top of this than they used to be i think

seven or eight years ago you probably could have gotten away with it a bit more now it's not the case now the league is on you much much more about dressing guys like you know it's funny we talked a little bit about shea Weber last podcast, about how the league really grinded Montreal about it when Weber announced he wasn't going to play after they went to the Stanley Cup final. I remembered another situation. There was a couple of years ago where the Maple Leafs were down in Florida. I couldn't remember if they were playing the Panthers or they were playing Tampa Bay. And the Leafs were basically going to be forced to play shorthanded or with a called-up goalie. If I remember correctly, it was an ATO goalie.

And the Leafs were like, if you want us to do this, we'll do it. But this is a game that means a lot for someone else who was in the playoff race. And we can make this work. But the league thought Toronto was manipulating LTIR. And at the end of the day, the league kind of said, for competitive balance, we're going to allow this to happen. But they really gave toronto a rough ride

a really rough ride and i'm told behind the scenes that happens a lot more now than it used to did nikita kucherov mess it all up with the t-shirts no this wasn't the t-shirts had a lot to do with it and i you know and like vegas was cleared by the nhl but a couple years ago they had a lot of crazy stuff that happened and teams were screaming about it but the league like and the league did go through it pretty hard with vegas like they gave vegas a rough ride too and in the end they were in compliance but like people said to me the league pokes at you clients but like people said to me the league pokes at you and dissects you a lot more than they used to thank you so much for the email i'm always fascinated that so many people are interested in in the minutiae of the cba elliot and here's another one mike in philadelphia good

afternoon guys i have a quick question about salary retention and retention slots. If a team retains salary on three transactions, but one or more of the contracts are for pending UFAs, when are they free to make another retained salary transaction? Would it be as soon as they hit the offseason after the cup final, or would they have to wait until July 1st? Love the pod and the written blogs keep up the great work no i think you have to do it at the end of the uh at the end of the calendar when the contracts expire which is june 30th july 1st that's one of the reasons nashville has two of

their salary like they have a lot of cap room you've talked about this eight million but they've used two of their salary slots you know if you if you look at their retained salary transactions they they've done it with ryan johansson and matthias ekholm and so and and they stay through next year right so or actually ekholm is two more years so nashville is very careful about retaining salary now they're willing to take a salary they play do a three-way because they have extra cap space but retain salary is not what they want to do because as you mentioned jeff they can't clear it until june 30th excellent uh another great note here's an interesting one i think maybe you and i have mused about this one before this is kim from sweden hi it's kim from sweden here love the podcast bummed out that i have a hard time I think maybe you and I have mused about this one before. This is Kim from Sweden.

Hi, it's Kim from Sweden here. Love the podcast. Bummed out that I have a hard time trying the ribs. This is a theme. My question, however, with all the offside reviews on goals, basically all of them overturned lately as a Blackhawks and Bedard fan, I got to thinking about other potential review situations, mainly dump-ins at the red line feels like a lot of players are very close to the wrong side of the line when dumping

the puck is this something that could be reviewed should it result in a goal close after a dump-in to see if the play was an icing before the goal I think we've both wondered about this one well put it this way they'll give you a little bit of leeway but if you're two or three steps behind you're going to get called for icing but no it's not reviewable i i don't want to see it be reviewed to be perfectly honest like this one you should be able to make that call um but one of the reasons that you can't review it is that on disputed goals the play has to happen in the offensive zone so because icing is not a play that is in the offensive zone you cannot review it you know what though i'll be honest with you the standard for the dump in to me should be the same standard as the offside. If it's egregious, call it.

But I'm a close enough guy. I'm close enough for the dumping and I'm close enough for the offside. You with me or against me? I am. I'm a close enough for the icing, especially now that we're trying to make icings a little more safe. I'm a close enough guy. The offside, unfortunately, I i just you know what jeff i know

everybody says the dushane one was really egregious that led to the change of the rule but i just know the way the world works and if you lose the stanley cup on a play that's offside by the skin of an onion it's a fiasco as much as i don't like how much we parse it and was warned that it would get to this, people would go crazy. Whoever told you it would get to this and this type of parsing was 100% right. Colin Campbell. Then that person was 100% right.

Colin Campbell was always the guy who said, be careful what you wish for. Yeah. Well, we've turned this from a game of inches into a game of pixels and that's what it's become and really the offside rule was always in spirit close enough so it's not egregious to just try to keep guys as honest as possible getting out of the zone okay uh kim and sweden great note there okay uh ben in the. Great note there. Okay. Ben in the UK. Hi, Jeff and Elliot. Ben from the UK here. There's a few of us hockey fans in the UK. I've been an

avid NHL fan since the early nineties. Anyway, doing my best to spread the word to my offspring and even my eldest daughter, Willow, had to admit she's enjoying the podcast on our weekly trips to take her to college. Hello, Willow. So much so, she came up with a belting question. Which notable NHLer that you know of started playing hockey the latest in life? It was one question I had no idea. Whereas normally I love calling out the answers before you guys do to try to show her

my encyclopedic knowledge. Ha ha. Thanks for the balanced insights every week. Love the show. The first one that jumps to mind is Ed Jovanovsky who didn't start until he was 11 years old and became a first overall draft pick of the NHL. Do you know of anyone else

Elliot who started late in life? Hmm. I'm trying to think. Jovo is the one that I always go to. That's a good question. The Tanev brothers had a very unique path. They actually stopped playing hockey for a while and came back.

That's like Chris Stewart. Chris Stewart was the same. Yeah. Remember he stopped and he went and played football. Yeah, Chris Stewart stopped, played football Remember he stopped And he went and played football Yeah Chris Stewart stopped Played football And then came back I think Anthony

His brother got him A walk on tryouts With the Kingston Frontenacs That's how he got back in I think Lionel Conacher Is another one too But I'm not sure How old he was

When he started But I think he started late Oh you know what Here you go I just looked it up Rod Langway When did he start? No way.

He played street hockey before that. I just checked Wikipedia, which is never wrong. No way. But he played street hockey until he was 13. Wow. I love Rod Langway. Yeah. Just love Rod Langway. Nor two time rod langway norris trophy winner um yes and one of

the rare cases of a defensive defenseman elliot getting into the hockey hall of fame yes as the hall of fame was looking to correct the mistakes from the past and putting in as many goaltenders as possible can we carve out a little area for the defensive defensemen, the defenders that had the nerve to actually, I don't know, Elliot, defend. Yeah, I miss that. That's why the Flames traded for this guy because they're looking for guys who can defend. You know what?

You know what my problem is? You know why I keep saying this guy instead of the guy's actual name? I don't mean to be disrespectful. Grushnikov. Grushnikov because I keep thinking of Denis Gravishkov and I'm worried I'm going to call him the wrong name. Artem Grushnikov.

Jay Baki. Love them. All right. That's the Montana's Thought Line for today. Montana's Thought Line, Montana's barbecue and bar, Canada's home for barbecue. Again, the way to get in, 32thoughts.sportsnet.ca, 1-833-311-3232.

Wrapping up the pod in moments. Okay, welcome back to the podcast, presented as always by the gmc sierra and check your oil you're trying to come up with a new cliche for everything we gotta try the sponsors happy okay very good uh want to wish our good friend dave jackson a very speedy recovery you watch uh dave certainly on espn one of the uh the finest referees the nhl has ever watch uh dave certainly on espn one of the the finest referees the nhl has ever seen uh dave is resting comfortably elliot after having double hip replacement or should i say a lower body injury uh get well soon stripes um you know we we tend to think all the best dave we always think about you know the players on the ice are the only ones that have injuries

during their career and post-career. Let's not forget about what the officials put their bodies through as well. Yes, speedy recovery to everyone's good friend, Dave Jackson. Elliott Hockey Night in Canada Saturday is always a big deal, and it all gets underway at 6.30 Eastern

with Hockey Central and your host, Ron McLean. Three big games, Montreal and Tampa, the New York Rangers and the Toronto Maple Leafs. Did you see Ryan Reeves fight Liam O'Brien on Thursday night? Is that a warm-up for something else on Saturday, Elliot Friedman, as you try to sell a hockey ticket? Come on, man. You don't need to sell tickets in Toronto.

They're already sold. Fair enough. And the Pittsburgh Penguins face off against the Calgary Flames. And that's Hockey Night on Saturday. Hope you enjoy it. This podcast returns to its normal schedule as always, Monday morning. Have a great weekend. Enjoy

the hockey. We'll talk to you then.