32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Pheeeeeee-Nom

Episode Date: December 2, 2022

November is behind us. Jeff and Elliotte give their thoughts on the Connor Bedard trade situation and give both sides of the argument (00:10), talk about Cal Petersen and the LA Kings (20:00), Steven Stamkos hitting the 1,000-point mark (27:00), the latest from Philadelphia (30:30), what’s next for the Penguins and Kris Letang (32:30), Sean Monahan returns to Calgary (35:40), a wild season for goalies (38:00), Roberto Luongo enters the Ring of Honour in Vancouver (40:45) and Alex Formenton fails to reach a deal with the Senators (44:10).The guys then go through some of the biggest on-ice stories for the month of November (45:30).GET YOUR 32 THOUGHTS MERCH HEREMusic Outro: Hey Major - Our WorldFind the full track hereThis podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call The Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailAudio Credits: Bally Sports West, Bally Sports Southwest, CBC, Sportsnet, The Journal News, WFLA and WHLThe views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Shouldn't someone have worn it by then? After Ori retired and the number was retired, he allowed his cousin to wear it. A guy by the name of Cummy Burton. We're going to start the show today by talking about Conor Bedard. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented by GMC and the new Sierra AT4X. Merrick alongside Elliot Friedman and Amel Delic. Conor Bedard, an interesting week for the player, an interesting week for the Regina Pats. As we talked about, Elliot, on Hockey Night a couple of weeks ago,

his Regina Pats are on an extended road trip. They're in BC right now as we record this podcast. They played a game Wednesday night against the Kamloops Blazers, a team that's hosting this year's edition of the Memorial Cup. It didn't exactly go swimmingly for the Pats, although true to form, Conor Bedard scored a gorgeous goal. Bedard, he'll skate the length of the ice.

Bedard in, pulls and shoots and scores. Yeah, that's what we knew was possible. As Bedard let it go, and that draws a crowd at the end of that one. Howe's involved. Oh, there's a Conor Bedard show right there. Before the game, there was a scrum with John Paddock,

who's the general manager and coach of the Regina Pats. And just so everybody knows, there's long been a speculation that, well, a number of teams have been after Connor Bedard, and most specifically the Kamloops Blazers, who, as I mentioned, are hosting the Memorial Cup this year. John Paddock has been asked about this, as he mentions in the clip you're about to hear, going all the way back to June.

And you can tell that he's pretty frustrated about the whole thing. The person asking questions here is a very fine Kamloops reporter by the name of Marty Hastings. Here's John Paddock from Wednesday. Now, so I just heard today on Christmas thing, there's like 300 different languages that some song is saying. So do you speak some different language? What's that, sir?

Do you speak some different language? No, I speak English. It's been said what's done. Why have we been asked not to ask you? Because if you're working for the Blazers, I'm filing tampering charges. I don't work for the Blazers. Okay. But never before in the history of the league has there been asked for

a player. This started in June in this town. So again, we must not be speaking English because instead what's gonna happen. So why do you think there has been so much chatter in this town? You guys are making fun of him. I mean, you can understand. No, I can't. No, I can't.

No, he has no trade clause. He does not wanna be traded. He's not going anywhere. We don't wanna trade him, he has a no trade clause. He does not want to be traded. He's not going anywhere. We don't want to trade him and he doesn't want to be traded. It's simple. No, it's not all you're looking for because it's been going on since June. I've never asked you the question. I know, but you probably wrote about it or asked somebody about it.

No, no, it's okay. We'll get them to understand someday. People want to know about what are the risks of not doing it. I mean, you have the chance to set up the franchise for the future. I've been through both. I've rebuilt. I've had to spend like crazy when we were hosting the World Cup because we were better the next year.

I know there's nothing to do with it. There's also sides to why I can understand why the Pats wouldn't want to do it for having him being drafted. We're not doing it. We're not wanting to do it. We're not doing it. It's not wanting to do it. We're not doing it. And Connor has a final say. He has a goal trade.

He wants to be a Regina Pats and finish his career in Regina. Clear. Okay, so a couple of things here. Sources say Paddock not interested in this line of questioning. No, and also sources say he's been down this road with this line of questioning no and also sources say he's been down this road with this line of questioning numerous times to which i will still say you're in cam loops you know this question is coming whether you want it or not there's nothing wrong with it there's nothing wrong with it you need to have an answer prepared for it. Yeah. I didn't like the stuff about, you know,

do you speak some different language? I didn't like the stuff about if you work for the Blazers, I'm filing tampering charges. I get that people get frustrated and annoyed at being asked questions that ultimately they don't have answers to over and over again. But in this situation, you're in Kamloops you know this one's coming for each yeah I agree with you I mean uh I always liked dealing with John Paddock when

he was working in Ottawa and Philadelphia I mean you say it best there Jeff he doesn't like the question it's very clear the organization doesn't want the questions but there's a better way to do it than that just say look i've said everything i've i've got to say and i'm not answering anything else one thing as well elliot we should point out is before that cam loops for gianni game on wednesday commissioner of the western hockey league ron robison did have a conversation with john paddock uh about that scrum to tell him essentially that that was unacceptable. And I think what Paddock was trying to do above all was just trying to protect his 17-year-old hockey player.

Okay. Just so, and we got a couple of tweets about this, and so we should clear a few things up here. Just so people understand the dynamic at play here. Conor Bedard's team, the Regina Pats, as we record this podcast, are a 500 team. They're nowhere close to the top of the Western Hockey League standings. It's a team that has struggled, even though they have the number one prospect for this year's draft, who's lighting the prospect stage completely on fire.

lighting the prospect stage completely on fire. And, you know, there are people that wonder, well, why doesn't Regina just trade him? They can get an entire haul for him. Like I talked to one person today who said, you know, if Regina trades Conor Bedard, and let's say it's pick ham loops, you know, they could get like three 2005s, a 2004, four first round picks, like a trade package, the likes of which the Western Hockey League has never seen and completely set this franchise up for the next however many years.

A couple of things there. I know a lot of people were surprised when they heard John Paddock say that he had a no trade clause. Yes, they do exist in junior hockey. had a no trade clause. Yes, they do exist in junior hockey. In the Western Hockey League, you can't trade 16-year-olds. 15 and 16-year-olds can't be traded no matter what. Kids are drafted out of bantam. They can't be moved. 16-year-olds can't be moved. 17-year-olds who have a no trade, which is, just so we're all aware, pretty much everybody right now, technically the player has to ask for the trade or instigate it. Okay. So I checked with Conor Bedard's agent this morning. That's Greg Landry of Newport, who said they have not asked for a trade. They have not initiated that conversation.

Conor Bedard is committed to the Regina Pats and he hasn't initiated that. Now, trade deadline in the Western Hockey League is January 10th, and what happens in between essentially now and then is World Junior Hockey Championships where Conor Bedard will go. The Regina Pats will have a tough time without Conor Bedard. They're also going to lose Stanislav Sovol, Czech defenseman who's a third-run draft pick

of the Columbus Blue Jackets. They're losing a couple of players as well it's going to be a challenging time they'll still probably make the playoffs but this is going to be a team the players that come back from the world junior experience and all of a sudden this Regina Pats team is probably going to be in an even more difficult position but again this has to be the player going to the organization and saying, I'd like to ask for a trade. I'd like to go somewhere else. And one of the things that I really learned over the past few days about Conor Bedard, Elliot, is really great family. We've all seen psycho parents in minor hockey, in junior hockey, in youth hockey. in junior hockey, in youth hockey. The Bedard family are the complete,

and this isn't just from one person. This isn't just someone from his camp. This is from numerous people, people from opposite teams, people that have competed against Conor Bedard, know the family, the complete opposite of the psycho parents. This is a kid who takes the weight of leading this Regina Pats team seriously.

You know, you always hear of want to be part of the solution, not the problem, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. That's Conor Bedard, has a strong ethical base and ethical guideline as well. When you look at what he's doing here by not, and again, at this point, going to the Regina Pats and asking for a trade, in some ways it's really commendable because if his ship is going to go down, he wants to be on it. Where many might say, you know what,

just go get the Memorial Cup experience. Kamloops is hosting it. Go ask for a trade. At this point, Elliot, he hasn't done that yet. To me, that kind of even makes him more of an attractive player than before. I can tell somebody talked to an agent today. No, I talked to Landry, but I talked to a lot of other people around him.

I'm just kidding. I'm just busting your chops. I'm just busting your chops. First of all, number one thing is what does the kid want? Fine. I agree with that. I knew you were coming with this. So I, and I had a feeling I knew where you were going. So I looked at it like, what's the different perspective that I can provide here? And here's where I come from. Okay.

There is no way based on everything you've just said here and everything I understand about this kid, which is very good, that he is going to bail on this team. No way. based on everything you've just said here and everything I understand about this kid, which is very good, that he is going to bail on this team. No way. And you know something else which you didn't mention there is that this team doesn't want to trade him. They're the ones that right now can say

Conor Bedard is a Regina Pat and they can say next year, Conor Bedard, Regina Pat graduate is the number one pick in the draft. And that is meaningful to them. Where common sense has to prevail is from the adults. Now, one thing I've learned now as a 52-year-old is what's Jerry Seinfeld's line? What's the problem with common sense? It's not that common.

But that doesn't mean the adults here can't fix this. It's their job, if they think it's the right thing, to take this out of Bedard's hands to say, Connor, if you want to play at the Memorial Cup this year, leave it to us. You just have to decide to agree with what we present to you. Like a lot of leagues, the CHL is coming out of COVID. Now, the one thing I do want to say is that in the playoffs, anything can happen. Regina can get into the playoffs. He's a great player. They could get hot. The Western Hockey League has two teams in the Memorial Cup this year because Kamloops is hosting it. You have to take into consideration for all of that. I think it's harder for that to happen in hockey, even with a player as good as Conor Bedard, but I think you have to agree with

the situation. That said, Jeff, I think it's incumbent on the adults to say, look, the CHL, we're coming out of COVID. The leagues took a lot of damage. Our best way of creating some interest and making ourselves look good is putting Conor Bedard in a position where he can play playoff games, appear on television, and go the Memorial Cup where everyone can see it. And how do we do that? and go the Memorial Cup where everyone can see it. And how do we do that? Right now, this is a we thing, not a me thing. And what you have to include in this is bribery.

Bribery? And not illegal bribery, but real legitimate bribery. Okay. And you have to go to the Regina Pats and not just say you're going to get 10 things in return for Bedard. But what else do you need within reason? Do you want a CHL All-Star game? We'll give you a CHL All-Star game. Do you want a Memorial Cup?

We'll give you a Memorial Cup. You have to do all this. It wasn't that long ago they had the memorial cup for the 100 year anniversary who cares give it to them again like okay i don't care they got the ability to draft bedard that creates new opportunities i don't care if they just had it recently give it to them again if they want it this is a situation where you're coming out of a really difficult challenging time and you have the opportunity to maximize the eyeballs on a number one pick a tremendous player

and look i don't know him i'm looking at this from four provinces away are you going to tell me jeff that if you go to conor bedard and say, Conor, I know you don't want to leave this team. I know you don't want to bail on them. We've done all the legwork. It's okay, and we're going to say we propose this to you. And the league can talk to you about it, and the vagina pats can talk about it, and his representatives can talk about it, and his family can talk about it, and they can say we've come up with this package that you're going to compete for the whl championship

and the memorial cup this year and it's a win win win for everybody if i was in charge of the league that's what i'd be do it's in everybody's best interest to make this work there is something in there that's really interesting to me that you said and it winks at one of and we're going bribery was it no not it wasn't the bribery part it was the idea of doing whatever it takes to get your star player into your marquee event and i don't always believe this but i think this is a unique case connor mcdavid when he played with the eerie otters, one of the things that when Conor aged out and turned pro and started with the Edmonton Oilers, one of the things that I think a lot of people regretted was that Conor McDavid never played in the Memorial Cup. And he never won the OHL championship with his Erie Otters. We just saw the list of teams that's going to bid

officially for the Memorial Cup next year. And one of the names in there is an intriguing one, and that's Saginaw. And the CHL hasn't been to the United States for a number of years for the Memorial Cup. It's always been generally competed for in Canada. We got to go back to the 90s in Spokane to see the last one.

But they have a player by the name of Michael Misa. Now, Michael Misa is playing great in his rookie year, got exceptional status last season, joined the OHL a season early. And what I find intriguing about this is almost as if this is an indication that the CHL acknowledges it needs to do whatever it takes to get their star players in their marquee event,

their big names. You know, they didn't get it with Connor McDavid. They might not get it with Connor Bedard. And I don't think they really want to risk having Michael Misa go through his junior hockey career and not play in their biggest showcase event. That's why when you start talking about the league doing whatever it takes

and exerting whatever pressure on the Regina Pats and Conor Bedard's camp at Newport to do something here. And the one guarantee is if they trade him to Kamloops, then he's automatically in. That picks up my ears because I know that there was that regret around the CHL.

They never had a chance to showcase McDavid in the Memorial Cup and they have a phenom, like phenom. Like we've never seen this in the Western Hockey League before, Elliot. This guy goes out and sells out buildings. The Western Hockey League, and you think of all the starters that have gone through the

Western Hockey League, there's never been anything like this in hockey league. And you think of all the starters that have gone through the Western hockey league, there's never been anything like this in the league. And I don't think they want it to stop. They'll never admit publicly, but I'm sure the league would like nothing more than to have Conor Bedard on the Kamloops Blazers. So guaranteed this guy's in their, in their marquee event. I keep coming back to what if he doesn't

want to go like what if you're conor bedard and you say like okay you know what i'm gonna look if he doesn't want to go this is all moot that's just it but the big pressure point comes when he comes back from the world juniors and trade deadline is only a couple of days away does he say you know what i want to go i want to take a great swing at a Western Hockey League championship and the Memorial Cup, or do I want to stay here, loyalty to my team, see how far we can take the Regina Pats, and if we flame out early, well, I'll probably end up going to the World Championships, and that'll be another great experience for me. If he doesn't want to go, he doesn't want to go.

But, again, you can work to present him something that maybe might get him to change his mind and he's not just a phenom jeff he's a phenom with seven e's you have to pronounce it phenom i think we just got the title of the podcast anyway jeff so what what has happened here is you and i have solved the problem. No, we're not. We're right back where we started. If Bedard doesn't want to go, he's not going to go. It all comes down to him. Well, that's the thing. If he doesn't want to go, that's fine. I do want to say one thing. I think part of the frustration for John Paddock, and like you, I've never had a bad experience with him. And I was around him during the 100

year anniversary of Regina for the Memorial Cup. And I never had an experience like that or saw John Paddock like that before. But I think part of the frustration here is he can't go out and shop this player again. Like the player has to approach the team about it. Like he's 17 years old. And I think the other part about it is too, I wonder if deep inside, John Paddock knows what the right hockey decision is here, to your point. But he can't do that because the organization doesn't want it done. And maybe there's a part of John Paddock that says, I don't want to wear this decision. I don't agree with it, but I know why my organization feels this way. And it's got to

be tough knowing that he's going to be the one that owns it. That's possible. I hadn't thought about that, but that's certainly possible. I went down a rabbit hole, by the way, when you sent me that clip, I watched John Paddock's goal.

Oh yeah. That sent game six of the 1980 Stanley cup final into overtime. Yeah. Before Bob Nystrom won the Islanders first Stanley Cup. Was that goal offside, Elliot? Well, I'm looking forward to your part one of your 98 part series on whether it was or wasn't.

Pat Quinn sure thought so. Never forgot it. Yeah. There were a couple of goals in that game that he thought were missed. Listen to 32 Thoughts, the podcast, ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime.

In the first two chapters of Painting the Pitch Red, we covered the Canadian men's national team's rise and fall. Now it's time for our triumph. It started to take off and people started to see it more. And then a big shift for me was the next generation of people born. There are Canadian kids popping up in my feed every week. Now when you say you're from Canada, people are asking me about Alphonso Babies.

What do you do in between those moments is crucial for any career. Canadian soccer fans had never seen anything like that. It was just like being in your office again. We were screaming out for that professional environment. This is just a tournament. This is a celebration of a lot of things. And it was just such a brilliant Canadian moment to be part of. They are must-watch TV. Listen, wait for that World Cup in 2026. Yeah, I was pretty overwhelmed by the whole thing. The Canadian men's national team will never fail to qualify for a FIFA Men's World Cup ever again.

To relive our climb to the greatest stage in sport, listen to Painting the Pitch Red, Chapter 3. Okay, so to NHL issues. Cal Peterson. Jeff, before we talk about Peterson and the move,

the thing that stands out to me is they do this. Rob Blake has a meeting with the team saying it's time to bear down and be more consistent. And immediately you're down three, one to Arizona the next night. And that's not to make fun of Arizona. The coyotes play hard. And the last thing that surprised me was that Christian Fisher would be the guy to open the scoring for Arizona. Cause nobody plays harder than that guy this year.

Now LA comes back to win. They show the fortitude that Blake is kind of talking about. But at the beginning there, Jeff, I was kind of like, woof, this is, they need a better motivational speaker

now but melko was really good early like let's give him his props too he played great yes okay so this one caught a lot of people by surprise i'm not sure whether it surprised you but when the los angeles kings put him on waivers we all wondered, A, will someone claim them? And B, is this nothing more than a rattling of the cage by Rob Blake, general manager of the LA Kings? So Thursday afternoon, two o'clock Eastern, he clears. I wondered about San Jose. I wondered about Columbus. Neither bit, obviously. How did you meet this story? Like when you first saw Cal Peterson on waivers, what went through your mind? I was shocked. Sometimes you get a waiver note sent to you and you're like, are you sure? I remember when the LA Kings put Mike Richards on waivers, that was one of them. When the San Jose

Sharks put Evander Kane on waivers to terminate his contract. That was another. This was another. I remember when the Vanderkeen was put on waivers, I actually didn't put it out. I called a couple people saying, am I seeing what I think I'm seeing? And with Peterson, again, I just wanted to make sure that it was accurate and I didn't somehow get a mistake. I was very surprised. I was shocked, actually. I heard Rob Blake was actually very good about it in terms of communicating and saying, look, this is the plan. And one of the things that's happened here is

Peterson is struggling and Quick is struggling. And I always check natural stat trick. If you listen to this podcast in any length of time, you know that i say there's a lot of information available privately that we don't see publicly and sometimes i'll check with a team to say am i missing anything here natural stat trick is one of the places i love to look and it had the king's seventh and expected goal percentage and teams told me they're pretty

good but they're 28th in goals against and that's everything that you you need to know I'm not surprised he wasn't taken like you know to me San Jose they're trying to get away from a lot of term I wasn't surprised they didn't take him you know the thing about columbus they've signed mers leakens and you've got to tell me for columbus to sign him do they think he's better than mers leakens i don't think they would take that bet the one team i wanted about was buffalo uh you made the point that peterson drafted him did not sign there yep which is always something to remember but at the end of the day i i just didn't think that Peterson would get claimed. And I think Blake was honest and he showed it in,

in making it clear that if Peterson did not get claimed, he was going right to the American hockey league. See LA is out of runway here. They can't wait for their goal 10 and you get better. It's not as good as it should be. The team is playing better than the record uh indicates you know he's still got that's the thing like peterson's still got a winning record but if you watched him the other day and i put the video on the blog after talking to someone about it

he comes on for quick he gives up the last four goals in the game against seattle and each one like his reaction to the goal gets progressively worse you know the third one he's shaking his head Burakovsky you know this is the area of the game they have control that's down low cycles but where this shot comes from it's just at the dot it is short side if I want to say one thing with Cal Peterson is both legs are deep, deep, deep. And the fourth one, which is the overtime winner. And you'll see with Cal Peterson this time, he's able to get up. He is at the top of the crease, so he's in a better position, but it's just a perfectly placed shot.

Short side high. Kraken win it. He flops down on his stomach before he gets up and skates off the ice with the weight of the world on him. And I'm not making fun of this. It's tough to watch. Everyone who's watched sports knows what it's like to watch an athlete who's lost confidence and how hard that is and everybody sees it.

He's going to play in the American Hockey League and they just give him an opportunity to play there that they can't afford to give him in LA right now. You know, the one thing that I think is interesting about this though, Jeff, is that, you know, Jonathan Quick's contract ends this year. Peterson's got two more years, but I'm curious to see, and we don't have to know this right now. There's time for this to play out, but I do wonder if the Kings are going to look for a goalie. Maybe not this year, but maybe in the future.

Unless Jonathan Quick is coming back on a very, very short-term deal, a Band-Aid deal to get them to their next starting goaltender, I would assume they'd be in the market for sure. They have some interesting decisions they have to make because, as everybody knows, they've got to move a right shot D by next season at the latest because they've got a surplus on them and they have to make room for jordan spence but he could do some really interesting things there you know i thought it was interesting too how he addressed the team you know they're in playoff position but a couple of those teams that are outside of the playoffs the wild Wild, the Predators, the...

I got to tell you, the Predators, man. I'm watching them against New Jersey. If you get a 2-0 lead against the Devils, you should just decline it. You know what? We're not taking the second goal. No, we'll just stay with one. This team is too clinical.

How many times have they come back from a 2-0 deficit? But there's the Predators, there's the Blues, there's the Wild. They're a few points behind. They've got games in hand. I'll tell you what else is interesting too is that Rob Blake didn't really go out of his way to say this is a message to the group,

but Todd McClellan sure did. He's doing this with a purpose of trying to fix Cal Peterson. I don't question his motives here, but sometimes the shock wave can help you too. And I think the Kings are really curious to see

how their players are going to react to all this. Okay. Well, speaking of reactions, overwhelmingly positive from a lot of corners around the NHL, specifically in Tampa,

as we record this podcast. Stephen Stamkos has recorded point number 1,000 on Nick Paul's second goal of the evening. Stamkos right corner. Crosses Ian Cole, left corner, center, and he scores! It went in!

Point 1,000 for Stephen Stamkos! Ian called through it in front. Nick Paul might have deflected that or it went in off hard, but Stamkos gets an assist and the Lightning storm off the bench to congratulate their captain. 1,000 points

for Stephen Stamkos. Listen, I'm sure you have more than a couple of thoughts here on the Tampa Bay Lightning captain now that he's joined the 1,000 point club. Number one, I'm really happy for him. How many times did we think his career might be over

or we might never get to see the true Stephen Stamkos because of all the injuries? Two of the greatest players in the NHL the last 15 years, both of them two of the best Canadian hockey players of their generations, Sidney Crosby and Stephen Stamkos, and how we thought their careers might be over or be unfulfilled promise. With Stamkos, you can recall that Boston game

where he had that whopper when he crashed into the net. Yeah, like we all went, oof, yeah, absolutely. Like there have been a few times where we've wondered about Stamkos. Absolutely we have. When I look at Cros where we've wondered about Stamkos. Absolutely. We have. When I look at Crosby and I look at Stamkos, first of all, they're both great players. Crosby is the ultimate winner and Stamkos has proven he's an enormous winner too.

And statistically, they're both great players. They're both going to the Hall of Fame. But I look at Stamkos the same way i look at crosby in the sense that these guys had a lot of excuses that if their careers hadn't turned out the way that they could have or eventually did a lot of people would have said shame i understand ruined by injuries. And the two of them had no desire for that narrative. They were like, screw that. I am not letting that define me. Look at all of the stuff that Crosby's accomplished

since he came back from the big concussion. Look at all of the stuff that Stamkos has accomplished since the injuries. Even coming back for the one Stanley Cup final in the bubble, it was such a magical moment. What a return. Third shift of the game for Stamkos, and it's 2-0 Tampa. The captain returns.

Well, you know, great players sometimes just have that innate ability to write their own script. Look at him slide by Lindell there. He's got his head up the whole way. I talked about muscle memory, and you know exactly what to expect. And what people are going to remember Stamkos for is it's not going to be the injuries. It's going to be that this guy still captained two Stanley Cup champions.

They were two wins away from a third. Who knows what else is going to happen? He's now got 1,000 points. He's going to get 500 goals. You know, the guy's a winner in every sense of the word. And I'm going to look at him as a guy who could have given up or been satisfied, and he was never satisfied. Scoring threat every time he's on the ice.

I think of that release every single time. He's in the offensive zone, antennas up. Congratulations, Stephen Stamkos. That is a major, major feat. So they're playing the Philadelphia Flyers as we do this podcast. And earlier today, being Thursday, Kiefer Bellows was placed on waivers by the Philadelphia Flyers.

I would strongly suspect that's more of an issue with pace and keeping up with the pace that John Tortorella wants more than anything else. We'll see what happens with Bellows on waivers. Konechny and D'Angelo return to the Philadelphia Flyers lineup. And it sounds like there's been a lot of talk around the organization. I mean, that happens when you lose 10 games in a row, comma, again. What do you think the latest is in Philadelphia? What I've heard, Jeff, is meetings. I don't know whether it's been one or several.

I don't want to put an exact number on it, but I just heard there's been a lot of conversation internally about what are we doing here and where are we going? Look, you know how I feel. Take the pick, play hard and take the pick. That's what I'm doing if I'm the Philadelphia Flyers this year. I assume that's what Philly is going to end up doing. I don't know that, but I do think there've been a lot of conversations recently about how this is going to look and what direction they're going to go in. You know, Tortorella has been very public about some of the things and pointed about some of the things that he said. I don't think anybody should expect any different. The guy's almost 70 years old.

That's the way he is. And that's the way it's going to be. You can't be surprised. It's probably better on some level that people are debating his comments than worrying about a team that had lost 10 games in a row and that. That's John Tortorella. That's who he is.

But I think you have to have a direction, pick it, and stay with it. And to me, that direction should be getting your best pick this year but i i think there have been a lot of conversations about how this is going to look recently uh so to the other team in pennsylvania elliot and that's the pittsburgh penguins and the news that really surprised all of us and we think of his health primarily and that is chris letang as the team announced on t, he had suffered a stroke on Monday.

Again, we think of the player, we think of his health, we think of the hockey second here. There are certainly hockey ramifications to all of this, Elliot, and we can deal with that in a couple of moments here. But the primary concern is always the player and his health and his family, certainly.

Luckily, the news appears positive in terms of it's not as serious as the last one that took eight months to come back from. I heard he wanted to play on Tuesday. I wish I could have seen that conversation. Just Chris Letang being the Chris Letang that everybody knows, oh yeah, I'm fine, I'm going to play. And the Penguins incredulously looking at him and saying, no, you're not. I told you this on the radio. The best way I heard Chris Letang ever described to me is he's a hockey player with a UFC mentality. He's the guy that doesn't want to quit,

always wants to get up off the stool. He'll fight the next round. You're dragging him out of the octagon. That's Chris Letang. That's the best way that it was put to me. Pittsburgh comes up with good analogies for their players sydney crosby was the superstar with the mentality of the fourth liner first line grinder yeah first line grinder and chris letang is the hockey player with the usc mentality so true i shudder to go through the other 20 guys in this lineup and find

what their nicknames and comparisons are but you know know, he's, he, you know, him, he'll be back as soon as he can. It's obvious here that the Penguins have said timeout until we have a handle on this. I don't think he's going to play until they have a handle on it. So for the next little while it is cruise control, or if you're Ron Hextall, do you

start looking around? no one expects anything major but if you're thinking he's going to look for someone to be a like a kind of a chris letang replacement i don't see that you're not going to find that well it's it's not it's not that you're not going to find it it's also that i don't think they're going to look for that as i've said before i think pittsburgh's been looking around at some things for a little bit of time now you know to me you know Kasperi Kapanen hasn't played a ton there was a rumor going around that maybe he'd asked for a trade but that was denied to me I've got to think that some of this whole thing surrounds him about whether or not there's a better option elsewhere

if it isn't in Pittsburgh Kapanen scored a huge goal tonight. So maybe that'll help him get his confidence going and get Pittsburgh's confidence in him going. But that's one I've kind of looked at and said, the amount of time he's been out of the lineup, you've got to think everybody is sitting there trying to figure out a way, how can we make this better? But I think that Hextall is looking around to see how he can help his team and i think he has been for some time i don't think suddenly he's looking at it and saying oh i need to find someone to play letang's minutes i i don't believe that's what they're thinking here you know the other story um the return of sean monaghan to calgary. And this was a game where the rink

was tilted and the Calgary Flames threw 46 pucks at Jake Allen. You know, outshot Montreal 46-19. Sean Monaghan returns Elliott. Two assists. Habs win 2-1. You can tell that they love that guy

Monaghan. They love him. Because post-game, what's blaring in the dressing room? Shoot him down, turn around, come on, Mone. Mone, Mone by Billy Idol. That's a great song. Yeah. Secondly, he shows up in a walking boot, and the ice was tilted. Calgary was the better team, but they found a way to win.

And you could tell that game was meaningful to them for him. He's got money on the board. There's no question about it, but they showed up to play for him. Do you see Gouley throw himself in front of that shot at the end of the game? I couldn't believe he got up. Calgary was the better team. They should have won the game. Allen beat them, but those guys showed up for Monaghan. You can always tell if a team likes a player because Montreal had every excuse to just fall apart at any point in that game, and they didn't do it,

and they were celebrating like crazy when it was over. That's when you know a team likes a player calgary plays like that they're going to be just fine you know monaghan he's an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season there were some rumors early in the year they told him just to relax they'll let him know whatever like rumors about getting traded they basically told him just to relax they haven't made any decisions they'll speak to him later in the season about where everybody stands but hockey became a chore for sean monaghan because of all the injuries for the first time in a long time he looks like he's really enjoying it again you know one of my favorite things um about returns is watching the player watch the video tribute to them and you

could tell monahan's he's he's on the ice and he's watching this thing and you always want to be in someone else's brain for certain moments like what are they thinking what's going through their heads you can tell that he loved that yes and it was probably bittersweet a totally bittersweet and a really nice a really nice ovation from flames fans the other thing jeff that comes out of this game is jacob markstrom who is the losing goal in a 2-1 game which isn't that bad comes out and says once again i gotta be better i suck right now, so I've got to step up. We're playing good hockey and not letting many scoring chances in, but we can't start behind every game. Can you take us through what happened on that opening goal?

I think everybody saw what happened. It's not a good play. What was it with Josh Anderson on that play? Nothing really. I just suck at hockey right now. It's been a wild year for goalies. Like, Bennington tried to hit Stahl last night. Jordan Stahl, yeah. And he got clobbered. With all the controversy right now about how goalies need to be protected,

I'm curious to see if there's going to be any fallout from that. Like, that's who Bennington is. I don't have a problem with it. That's who he is. But I can see a lot of other people having a problem with it because we're having all these conversations about how goalies need to be protected. And that happens. Demko got hurt tonight. He's really had a nightmare of a year.

Markstrom's struggling right now. And I wonder if the, if the flames give Ladar a couple of games just so Markstrom's struggling right now, and I wonder if the Flames give Ladar a couple of games just so Markstrom gets it back. It's a wild time for goalies. What was the big story earlier this week is Igor Shcherkin. Yeah. You know, saying, you know,

just like throwing that New Jersey Devils loss all on him. Igor, what are you doing? Go over there and play a shit game again. Say again? Go over therely played a shit game again. Say again? Govly played a shit game again. So I guess that kind of describes how you feel about your play. I feel so bad. I played so bad.

I'm ashamed. Was there one goal in particular that you felt like was... Every goal is easy to play for me. I have to stop that. If our team wants to win the game, I have to play better. Are there specific things you know you need to correct? Everything.

We said earlier that it's not his fault. You can't give the Devils a two-goal lead, although they lost tonight. And the Rangers went to Jaroslav Halak to turn around their fates. It's weird because, you know, who are two of the most elite goaltenders in the NHL last season?

One of them won the Vesna. Igor Shcherkin, Jacob Markstrom. Throw Thatcher Demko in that conversation as well. Trouble with all three of them this week. Also just wanted to address this big controversy in, in Vancouver tonight about Roberto Luongo or Thursday night about Roberto Luongo, about how they're honoring him, but not retiring his number. It's my,

yeah. This is, this is actually the first time I get a chance to address you guys since I left, so I want a few things I want to say. First I want to thank you guys on behalf of Hank, Danny and myself for everything you guys have done over the years. But on a personal note, I really wanted to thank you guys for pushing me to be a better goaltender, pushing me to be a better person every single night. And now, I know there's a lot of debate about the Ring of Honor and the flag, but that stuff doesn't matter to me.

What matters to me is moments like tonight and sharing it with you guys. So thank you very much i look forward to seeing you next year i think if you go to the hall of fame your number should be retired and the canucks aren't the only ones who who have done this i don't understand why calgary did what it did you know i was happy they retired jerome Jerome McGinley's number because they should. But before that, they honored McInnes, Al McGinnis, and Joe Neuendijk without retiring their numbers. I don't get that. People are going to think I'm taking a shot at BX here. I'm not. I thought what they did for him was phenomenal. I know how much he loved it. He's not in the Hall of Fame. I think him going in the Ring of Honor, perfectly fine.

Number three doesn't have to be retired. But I think if you're in the Hall of Fame and you're a significant part of a team, like Luongo, Neuendijk, McInnes, all those numbers should be retired. And to me, it's simple. Like Federoff in Detroit? I think his number should be retired. Look to me, it's simple. Like Federoff in Detroit? I think his numbers should be retired.

Look, I know they were mad about him with the offer sheet. Yeah. It's been almost 25 years. Come on. There's a few things with numbers in Detroit. I know we're getting sidetracked here. And one day maybe I'll do something even, even bigger on a guy of the name of Larry Ori.

Do you know that story? Well, I know his number was retired. At one point, yes. And then unretired when the Illich's purchased the Detroit Red Wings. Although nobody wears number six, it's out of circulation. And it was once retired.

It's just that no one's going to wear number six. And to my knowledge, I don't know, maybe you have different information. I've never really been given any type of, never really been given any type of explanation other than, and this all changed, I don't even know what the process of unretiring a number would be.

We only retire numbers of players that go into the Hockey Hall of Fame. I don't know. What's the process of unretiring a number? I don't know. To me, this is one of, and again, this is like geeky hockey history, Merrick here, I know it can annoy people,

but this is one that I've always wondered about and asked about and never really been given any concrete answers about. I'll get Ken Daniels on that one. Okay. Elliot, before we take a quick break here, I want to come back and talk to you about some of the things that we saw in November, whether it was the New Jersey 13 game streak, the Seattle Kraken, holy smokes, Jason Robertson, lead changes, goals up around the NHL,

some of the trends. It really was an eventful November. Before we go to the break, Alex Formanson of the Ottawa Senators, not signed as the Thursday 5 o'clock Eastern deadline came and went. And now Elliot, he cannot play this season in the NHL. Look, Jeff, there's one reason this hasn't happened yet. And that is we still don't have clarity into the investigations arising from the 2018 World Junior Championship Gala celebration. What I think this comes down to is that the London police haven't announced

any decision. And I think the NHL is waiting wisely for the London police to make up its mind. And right now, we just don't know what that timeline is. And I think teams, until they get that clarity, were unwilling to do it. And I don't think that if anybody's surprised without that clarity, I don't think anybody was going to take the chance. I agree. We'll be right back. Okay, Elliot, I thought we'd wrap up the podcast today, but just having a quick look back.

Here we are in December, but that was a really eventful November. New Jersey, Seattle, Robertson, Marner, lead changes. Well, get a quick thought on all these from you, starting with what we saw from the New Jersey Devils, who almost turned into this robotic team. When they came at you, they were relentless, and they blazed through teams.

We wondered about their schedule early. Was it too soft? What was going to happen when they faced quality opponents in the NHL? Elliott, nothing changed. they just kept winning well every year there's one team that's kind of your surprise team and you wonder if they have staying power is this a team that has lasting ability and the devils are have made us all a believer i don't think anyone thinks this is a fluke. As we joked earlier in the podcast, Nashville had a 2-0 lead in the first period of the game on Thursday, and it evaporated, just evaporated on them. They are relentless. They can score.

They've got real talent. As long as they continue to get saves, they're going to be a force. They've banked up so many points right now, Jeff. Oh, yeah. It's going to take just force they've banked up so many points right now jeff oh yeah it's going to take just an unbelievable collapse it's going to take an unmitigated disaster for them not to make the playoffs and you know i'm curious to see them at that time the game changes the players change a lot look people always blame the referees in the playoffs i don't care what anyone says i think

it's the players that change the most in the playoffs you can't play 82 games in the regular season like you have to play 28 in the playoffs and i'm really curious to see it you know what's funny too jeff is that we were talking the other day about kane and taves and waiting until december to see who's good you know i was talking to someone this morning and waiting until December to see who's good. You know, I was talking to someone this morning and they were saying to me, if you would have said beginning of the season that Boston was a team for Kane or Taves to win the Stanley Cup this year, I don't know how many people would have believed it. I mean, people like to respect the Bruins,

but I don't know if anyone really thought they'd be this good. But then that guy said to me, could you imagine now if New Jersey makes a pitch for one of these two guys? If at the beginning of the season, you said the winner of the Patrick Kane sweepstakes is not going to be the Rangers, it's going to be the Devils. What kind of weird year do you think we were in store for? Look, I want to make something very clear. I don't want to radio myself here.

I don't know that New Jersey's in on this, but I was talking about this with someone. He said, all of a sudden, you've got to be sitting there and saying, at the very least, New Jersey's going to have to call and say, ah, you know, like, should we be in this? If you would have said that in the summer, you would have been committed to an institution. Somebody would have put you in a straitjacket and said,

we'll see you in six months. But that's what we have here. I mean, it's an incredible story. I have to say this year, I really do believe, Jeff, this has been incredible hockey. It's one of the best starts to a season that I've watched in a long time. Yeah, I don't disagree. And to the point about the New Jersey Devils,

when you bank that many points in one single month, whether you're in the NHL or playing some goofy hockey pool with three other buddies, it's like next to impossible to lose. It's almost like if you're in a pool like that, the other three should just concede, right? Because it's over. Yes. You know what? I got to tell you. Just wanted to see if you're listening to me

talking about the in-season cup. I got to tell you you got me for a second there. I was like, where is he going with this one? That was good, bud. Thank you, New Jersey Devils. Seattle Kraken, what a story as well. I can't wait to see how you choke this one. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, wait, no, no, no.

You're going to be one of those teams that has the win possibility of 99% with five minutes to go and loses. With my luck, you're right. Seattle Kraken, again, we talk about, if I told you at the beginning of the season that the Seattle Kraken was going to be one of the top teams in the National Hockey League and rocking a 700 win percentage

and second place in the Pacific and within door-knocking distance of the Vegas Golden Knights for top of the division. You might have said the same thing to the point you were making about the New Jersey Devils, but what a November for the Kraken. The conversation about Seattle had been so dominated

by what's Dave Haxtell doing here with Shane Wright and how come he's not playing and when he's playing, he's only playing a handful of minutes. It's almost as if we lost the script that they're playing great hockey and they're piling up wins here and they're, we thought they're going to continue to behave like a traditional expansion

team. Not so fast, Elliot, not so fast. The top two teams in the Pacific are the most recent expansion teams in the NHL. I agree with you on fast, Elliot. Not so fast. The top two teams in the Pacific are the most recent expansion teams in the NHL. I agree with you on them, Jeff. I think Beneers has brought them new life. Oh boy. You know, Logan Thompson, I think early on was

the Calder guy. I think it's going to be really hard if this continues for Beneers not to be the guy. I don't think that's a hot take. Some people will. Maybe people who live in the desert might feel differently, but I think it's going to be really tough if Seattle keeps this up for Baniers not to be the major Calder favorite.

But I heard Bjorkstrand, I heard Columbus had a deal to send him somewhere else, and another team muckeded it up and Seattle swooped in and got it. And there were people who told me before the season that they were better, they were deeper, they were faster and they were going to score more. And so far that's been right. Now, I think one of the things that happened is because of Seattle and Vegas, the Pacific is a much better division than we thought. Yeah. I don't know if people really knew what to expect from Vegas this year, and I don't know how many people really thought Seattle was going to be

this much better as they are. That's going to be a tough, tough division. To me, there's five teams there. There's Seattle, there's Edmonton, there's Calgary, there's seattle there's edmonton there's calgary there's la there's vegas that is going to be a tough tough division to sort out to me the story elliot of seattle is the balance scoring you have legit four lines that can score and we've talked a lot about andre burkowski and what he's been able to do you mentioned mad Matty Beneers, who's been fantastic. Eberle has found the fountain of youth. But to me, one of the great stories

from the Seattle Kraken this year has been fourth line Daniel Sprong. Daniel Sprong, who plays just a shade over 10 minutes a game, has 13 points in 15 games. Like when your fourth line has numbers like that, you're in such a luxurious position because you don't have to, you know, say to one of your lines, okay, just go out there and play 50-50 puck, give the other guys a rest until they get to their shift or we get to a power play. They can go out and play. And I was thinking a lot about this.

And again, this is still early with Sprong in Seattle. But here's a guy who no one has ever doubted the skill. I know there have been various issues. I know the Pittsburgh situation wasn't exactly great for a couple of different reasons, but no one's ever denied how talented this guy is at all. And listen, we know how analytically based and how much that management staff respects

analytics and a lot of new school philosophy. The new school philosophy is if you have a chance to replace anybody with just a little bit more skill, no matter how small that margin may be, you do it. And look what they've done with Daniel Sprong on a fourth line. Here's a guy with skill. Do we think he's nominally better, marginally better? Either way, we think he's better than we have. We're going to do it. And so far it's paid off. Sprong's been exceptional. I think that with a guy like Sprong, and I've had this debate with analytics people before, and it's a great debate because I've had things that have made me convinced I'm even more right. And I've had things that have convinced me that I'm not right.

I'm wrong. Sometimes people look at players who have really high scoring per 60 rates and sprung. I understand does huge. And they think that that person person that means that person deserves more of a role not necessarily true at all well that's the point i was trying to make like one guy that people were right about was the florida panthers and jonathan marshes all those years ago yep that was a guy they looked at his goal rates and his per 60 rates and they said deserves more of a role and they were totally right history has proven

that to be not a hot take but a correct take i look at a guy like daniel sprung and i say those numbers are impressive but he doesn't need more of a role than he's got there's just other things that don't work for him now i think that because the fourth lines in the NHL have changed so much and you have to have players who can play there, he can dominate those players. He can be a difference maker. But I think if you count on him to do too much more, that's not an insult. That's an understanding that everybody has a role on a successful team,

and Daniel Sprong has one. I'm not insulting him, but what I am saying is that I think where the mistake has been, has been saying that, well, that means we can extrapolate this to bigger role. It doesn't work like that. Yep. That's a perfect role for him.

And Seattle's benefiting from it. The fee nom. Did I say that right? Yes. That is Jason Robertson of the Dallas stars. You know, are we going to bring him up every podcast podcast first guy to score 20 goals this year dude i told you like even when the negotiations were happening like you might be annoyed folks we're gonna talk a lot about jason robertson in the preseason and probably into the season as well no just an outstanding

november and i know that you know he kind of got some like stealthy undercover love for the heart trophy last season for what he did but there's nothing undercover about how good this guy is and how much of an impact he's made on Dallas how much of a bargain that contract already looks like for the Dallas Stars and again he's when we look back at the month that just happened as far as stories goes he's right up around the top of the list. It's unbelievable. So he's on pace to score 75 goals. I feel I should throw this in here.

Amal Delic, the producer, says no. He's going to have a slight slump, and he'll end up with 69. Thanks for the input, Amal. That's really helpful. He arrives at every game with his saddle greased and his oil or his gun oiled every time and he looks to shoot. He looks to shoot all the

time now. He leads the Stars in that category by a mile. Head up, wrist shot, again past the screen, again beating Stolarz low on the blocker side. We wondered about what Connor McDavid was going to score at the beginning of the season when he got on his first heater.

Now we're seeing the same thing about Jason Robertson. I think MVP conversations at this point of the year are completely stupid. But the one thing I do think is you have to have an exceptional season to take someone like McDavid or Matthews or Dreisaitl out of the conversation. This guy is on the way to an exceptional season. First 20, and he just blows the doors off 20. He's already at 22.

Yeah. The other thing, too, is with the Hintz extension this week, when's the next big contract negotiation they have? Because remember, Pavelski's year to year. I don't know. Is it Wyatt Johnson? Who's a rookie? It's not for three years.

They have taken care of all of their big business for three years. Last year, there were rumors that maybe Jim Nill was coming to the end. He's had a hell of a year. Oh yeah. Like I think the stars said, are our processes really good here? And I think the credit they deserve is, is I think internally in that organization,

they had some really honest and blunt conversations about what they were doing. They look like they've come out ahead like i'm not privy to everything that was said and i'm sure there were some ruffled feathers but what it is is a sign that you can have honest and blunt conversations and come out better off for it as long as everybody acts like an adult but i look at where dallas was a couple years ago everybody acts like an adult but i look at where dallas was a couple years ago like they weren't really sure where they were going but now they've got all of their key young players locked up they look like they've hit a couple of mammoth home runs in the draft oh yeah like jamie ben's playing with those two kids delandria and johnston and he looks completely rejuvenated. Whatever conversations they had there,

they came out of it okay. Like this team's going to be a problem for a few years. Like teams are envious of this. Like they've transitioned from Ben Sagan, Klingberg into, you know, Robertson, Hins, Haskinen, Ottinger, right in front of our very eyes. Seamlessly.

It's amazing. So Hins, I think, he takes the same deal as Haskinen, Finn to Finn. They both have the same size saunas. No jealousy in Finland this summer. A low-tax state. I forgot the guy had 37 goals actually initially last year. I mean, he's a scorer too,

not just the defensive conscience. He's a scorer. I think it's going to be interesting. I think the Horvat thing in Vancouver, I think the Canucks have a lot of work to do there. But the one to me that's the most interesting right now is Larkin. He's having an excellent season. He's doing everything that he needs to do. He's playing well in a contract year. The thing about Steve Iserman is, if you look at Iserman's history of negotiation, he'll go to a point and then he won't go past it. And I think the Canucks know that they're going to have to bend if they want to get the Horvat done. Where they were and where this is going to have to be, they're going to have to bend. My guess is that Steve Iserman has bent a little bit. I don't know that. I'm just saying that I kind of

understand his history a bit. I just don't know if he's going to bend as far as Vancouver might have to. Now, I could be totally wrong about this. It's not like he's telling me what he's doing, but I always look at history to predict, and I think generally Eisenman's a guy who has a limit. I look at Larkin's value right now. It's a huge number. To me, he has proven that that guy,

he's a number one center and a really good number one center in this league. I just wonder if Iserman's going to be like, I have a point and I'm not going past that point. Because I think Vancouver knows it's going to have to bend. I don't know that that's the way Detroit's going to do it. If we look to history to predict then, does this feel to you like Stamkos 2.0

or Stamkos the sequel with Red Wings colors instead of Lightning colors? To me, I see that. I do. Because I think Larkin wants to be a Red Wing. I believe that. It's been one of the topics of conversation. What does Hintz's contract do for Horvat and Larkin,

who are the two best centers available on the market? And Hintz had one RFA year. These guys, they're pure UFAs. I put a lot of thought into that, and that's what I came up with. I just think Iserman's history is there's a place I'm going to go, and I'm not going past that. I think Larkin deserves every cent he's going to get. I think it's a bigger challenge for him in terms of where I think

Detroit's willing to go than I think Horvat and Vancouver. I think Vancouver is recognizing that if they want to keep horvat they're really going to have to move from where they were mitch marner toronto maple leafs uh 18 game point streak do the maple leafs rise and fall as marner does no i don't think it's that simple i think he's a great player for them i think he deserves a lot of credit i think that whole team deserves a lot of credit. They've done a real nice job stabilizing themselves after an ugly start and a lot of injuries. They've played really hard.

You know, Giordano, I think, too, deserves a lot of credit. And now Matthews is starting to get going. Marner has been excellent. He has really been excellent. And to me, it's not even the points. It's the fact that when he doesn't have the puck he's going and getting it but i think that whole team deserves a ton of credit for the way they've played and i still think they're going to look for a defenseman first or at least decide what they want to do on defense first before they think about adding

another forward i they don't have a lot of assets. So I think until they're convinced that they don't have to get another D, that's their priority. So Jeff, as we wrap up, and you were the one who mentioned this, we should have done this at the beginning of the podcast, really. We're sloppy, though. But we are very sloppy. It's Spotify wrap time.

We get a lot of tweets direct messages instagram messages from people who say that we're high up on their spotify rap list i've written back to several of them i'm gonna try to get back to all of them uh but we can't tell you how much we appreciate it you could listen to any other podcast in the world and you probably should listen to other podcasts in the world but you're with us and and we hugely appreciate it and have to give love as well to um everyone who listens on apple podcasts uh big thanks for making us one of the top shows of 2022 and one of the top shows that follows the action thank you thank you thank you a million times thank you taking us out today, Elliot,

new sounds from Sherbrooke, Quebec. Mikel and Raphael Fortin make up the alt-rock band Hey Major. Their latest single is a letter written to future generations, an honest letter where they denounce the actions and mistakes we made. With that single, here's Hey Major

and Our World on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. We destroyed the world we built. Here's Hey Major and Our World on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Our hands of guilt Then face what's in front of us Our hunger knows no shame And we are lost Is it over? What will it take? Will annihilation be our only choice Or will we raise our voice I hope we will Thank you. Thanks for watching!