32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Phil Bourque

Episode Date: January 4, 2023

Pittsburgh Penguins analyst and 2-time Stanley Cup Champion, Phil Bourque, joins Jeff and Elliotte in their hotel lobby bar ahead of the Winter Classic in Boston. Phil talks to the guys about his Boston roots,  wearing a Jofa helmet, shares a few stories about Mario Lemieux and Jaromír Jágr, tells us how he fixed the Stanley Cup in 1992, why Pittsburgh stuck with him even after he was arrested early on in his career, if he ever had doubts about the team staying in Pittsburgh and he gives his thoughts on current big three on the Penguins.You can get your own copy of "If These Walls Could Talk: Stories from the Pittsburgh Penguins Ice, Locker Room, and Press Box"GET YOUR 32 THOUGHTS MERCH HEREEmail the podcast at [e-mail] or call The Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailMusic Outro: Sonora - FallListen to the full track HEREThis podcast was mixed by Mike Rogerson, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Audio Credits: CBC, CBS and NHL Network.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome to 32 Thoughts to Podcast, the interview edition brought to you by GMC and the new Sierra AT4X. When you host a hockey talk show, you know the people who are always going to deliver when you interview them. You know the type that I'm talking about. Great stories, great energy, entertaining perspective, and a certain, how should we say, old school charm that comes along with being a former player who's now an analyst.

Phil Bork is one of those people. Elliot and I knew we were getting that when we sat down with Phil the morning of the Winter Classic at our hotel's lobby bar a scant few hours before puck drop. But what we also ended up getting was much, much more. Sure, you'll hear great stories about Jaromir Jagr, Mario Lemieux, goalies Ken Reggett and Wendell Young changing on the fly, his Jofa helmet, unscrewing the Stanley Cup to scratch his name on the inside of it.

But you're also going to hear a reflective and at times emotional Phil Bork. This interview took so many unique turns that by the end, when we shook hands and wished each other well, Elliot and I wondered to each other if that wasn't the best interview we've ever done on the podcast. Very well, maybe. And none of it was because of either me or Elliot. This was all Phil Bork. Now, a warning. Bork does talk openly and quite emotionally about how his father treated him growing up around hockey. It is not

easy to listen to. Quite bluntly, it's quite disturbing and potentially triggering. Please be careful. In this interview, Phil references a book that he wrote and want to make sure that it gets a plug right off the top. It's part of the If These Walls Could Talk series. Pittsburgh Penguins, stories from the Pittsburgh Penguins ice, locker room, and press box published by the good people at Triumph Books back in 2019. It is still available everywhere so

here's phil bork analyst for the pittsburgh penguins former two-time stanley cup champion in conversation with us at the winter classic in boston elliott we're here in the hotel lobby it It is the morning of the Winter Classic. Boston Bruins hosting the Pittsburgh Penguins. The excitement is building, and we get to talk to Phil Bork, two-time Stanley Cup champion, Pittsburgh Penguin analyst. First of all, Phil, thanks so much for this. And do you wish that they did events like this when you were playing? Especially in Boston, yeah.

I mean, this is my hometown. I grew up 40 minutes from here. My dad was more of a baseball fan than a hockey fan. So I wish as a young kid that grew up like every other young kid, learning to play hockey and skate outside, it would have been great, yeah. is first time doing this not the fenway's first time doing this when you look back at that pittsburgh buffalo i call it the snow globe game right how much of an influence do you think that had like when we look back in the the book is written on that era of hockey how important do you think that event was i think it was huge i think it brought in so many new fans that were fringe fans i thought oh wow, wow, what is this? This is an outdoor game.

Let's get tickets. Let's go. It'll be fun. But I think it was so spectacular, not only the image that you described so perfectly, like a snow globe, but the ending and the way it went. I think that people just thought, wow, anybody who was on the fence about the game of hockey, they became all in. Phil, when I think of you as preparing for the interview,

one of your compatriots, and it's a compliment, they kind of compare you to Forrest Gump of the Penguins, right? You've been around in all the great times. You've seen so many great things in your career as a player and now a broadcaster. So I want to ask you about some of those days because those were the days that really put the Penguins on the map. Okay, what's the best Mario Lemieux story you can tell that won't get us fired and won't end your friendship with him?

And maybe that people haven't heard before. I don't think he'll mind me saying this story or telling this story. When his back was really bothering him, I got to see what he went through. And, you know, you've heard the story about Tracy Lupe, who was the stick boy. If you remember the old shoe stores that you go and they have that box that would slide up and you put your foot on? Yes. Mario would have one of those, and Tracy would have a little stool and lace up his skates. But that's not the story i want to tell the story i want to tell is how many times i would walk by him and he stunk like ass he stunk so bad because he was taking this like a steroid

that they would give horses but when he would sweat at all it would give off a stench that would literally punch you in the nose so you'd'd walk by him, you'd go, whoa. But that's the stuff that he was trying to do. There was moments when he'd be back with Skip Thayer, our medical trainer, and you'd think, there's no way he's playing. And there's times he wouldn't come out for the beginning of the game. His back was so bad. That's what people don't realize.

What he went through just to get out there. And then once he got out there, I guess the back would loosen up a little bit and he would do great things. But what I got to witness was behind the scenes stuff that you're like, there's no way he's going to play or should be playing, but he did. All those years, I remember I was still in university when the cancer diagnosis came down.

And the thing about Lemieux is that I have so much incredible respect for is that there were so many obstacles thrown up his way and he just knocked them all down i would bet you would probably say the greatest hockey player ever in your mind because what kind of ice cream you like i like all ice cream okay okay okay okay like i like vanilla okay so like some people say wayne's the best some people say gordy's the best to me it's what kind of ice cream Okay. I like vanilla. Okay. So some people say Wayne's the best. Some people say Gordy's the best. To me, it's what kind of ice cream. I think Mario is the most complete player.

And to me, that's my favorite player and the greatest. I don't think anybody would have a problem if you came on this podcast knowing where you work, where you've been in your history, and you said Mario was the best. I don't think anybody's got a problem with that. But I don't know. Was anybody thrown as many roadblocks as Mario was? So I'd love to hear your stories about him, like that story, other stories you've got, just about what it was like with him as he grinded his way through and the night he came back,

winning the Olympics with Canada in 2002. It must have been so incredible for you to see everything he did after all those hurdles were thrown in front of him. Well, you think, and Wayne played with so many Hall of Famers really throughout his career, right? Mario, not so much. You know, from Warren Young to Bob Erie to Phil Bork. I mean, he had to play with a bunch of jabronis a lot of times, and he made us really good

players, right? Which great players do. I will tell you this, though. Help me with the year. I want to say 88, Canada Cup? 87. 87, thank you. When he came back from that, it was so obvious he was a different person

and a different player. I think he'll admit that changed him. To be with those other great players and not only perform the way he did, but he felt like not only I belong, but I belong in the 1%. And he was a different player, a different person when he came back from that tournament. I'm really curious about how Mario mixed in the room. There are stories of, Kelly Rudy has told us both, stories of Wayne Gretzky, when one of the Kings coaches would come in and rip everybody except for 99 and wayne would stand up and say that's bs like i'm on

this team i was crap out there if you're gonna rip them you rip me too don't be scared of me just because i'm wayne gretzky what was mario like was he the same way mario's pretty quiet guy you know mario's a shy guy uh mario liked to be around people that make him laugh like sid like sid colby armstrong one of sid's best friends because colby knows to push the buttons but also and i think wayne's the same way that they like guys that can bust their balls yes but not disrespect them right so they feel like one of the boys which when they're always in this this this refined air that they live their life in they want to be one of the boys they want to get their balls busted you know and so i think that's part of why mario hangs out with ty domey right ty makes him laugh right but ty you

know treats him like one of the guys too and so mario was a guy that always kind of liked to just relax you know just kind of stay in the shadows he didn't want to be in the spotlight he was in the spotlight so many times in his life then he's with the guys he just wants to blend in what would you guys bust him for like what would mary lemieux get busted right i mean what can what can we bust him no but there's got to be some habit he has that you guys were all over or something like that i don't know like know. Leaving a lit cigarette in the bathroom where he'd go in between periods that the light went up.

He used to do that earlier. I don't think he did it in his latter part of career. I don't know, something stupid like that. But it's kind of like Sid. He lives such a simple life that it's tough to... He doesn't wear flashy suits, doesn't drive a fancy car,

none of that. They live such a black and white life that there's this tough to find things to bust them on yager you went over to see him for like a day a couple years ago and you guys were very close i mean before covid yeah well we had drifted apart really oh and i'll be honest with you i didn't like yarmulke yager when he was with the bruins with you know the latter part of his career I thought he was uh arrogant I thought he was pompous I didn't like this personality quite frank with you guys and I don't know if that got back to him or not but we

just kind of drifted apart and I've I'd stop and see him after a game he didn't really have time for me I'm like okay fine no big deal but the Penguins had asked me if I was going to be talking to him or seeing him because they want to put this jersey up in the rafters. And you think, wow, Yonks played for what, eight different teams? Long-time Ranger, long-time cap. But his first two years in the league, he won the Stanley Cup. Never won again, right, which is incredible, right? Lots of kicks at the camp, but never won again.

But I took a flight from Philly over to Paris and then over to Prague, and he actually had a car service waiting for me at the hotel, and I went right to Klodno. And I watched him play the game, and then afterwards he came up. He was still in his underwear. They were underneath his uniform, came up, had a couple beers in the VIP room. We had an unbelievable talk. had a couple beers in the VIP room, and we had an unbelievable talk.

It was so he had so kind of let that guard down and that arrogance and that attitude, he had let it all down. Because I think he knew that it was the beginning of the end for him, but he didn't want it to end. And this is still two years ago, and now he's going to be 51 in February, and he's still playing. He just played the other day. But he knows his name is so tied to that team not just as an owner but for the sponsors and the big sponsors because once he leaves the big

sponsors leave so that's part of why he's hanging on but also i wanted to kind of plant that seed with him that you were loved in pittsburgh man i just want you to kind of close your eyes for a second and imagine what that night's going to be like you know mary was going to be there that night of putting your number 68 up in the rafters right next to 66. You know, Brian Burke tells a wonderful story about Jager before the draft, before he gets picked. Have you heard this one, Freed? No, I'm not sure.

So he's interviewing Jager, and he's checking all the boxes, and he asks him how many teams he's captained along the way. And he says, none. I've never been captain of a team. He says, oh, okay, so hang on a second. That's a flag. And he paused. He says, because I always played three years up.

I was always three years younger than everybody. And Berkey's like, okay. What are some of the things that you saw from Jager where you're like, I've never seen this before? When he first came, he didn't speak any English at all. So getting Yari Hrdina from the Calgary Flames was huge. He sat next to Yags, and also Brian Troche was huge his first few years, just kind of taking him under his wing.

And then this broken English saying it's going to be okay. I'll tell you a quick story. It's about halfway through the season, and people forget this because his career was so great. But he used to come through the middle of the ice with his head down. And I remember one time he got laid out so bad. We're like, oh, boy, he's not going to get up. He comes to the bench. This is at the old Civic Arena.

I'm sitting next to him, and he starts crying. And I knew he was incredibly homesick. The language, he wasn't able to do all the things he was able to do in the Czech League, and he was frustrated and he just started crying like like one of those like couldn't catch his breath crying well sure enough big kevin stevens stands up and goes is he crying is he effing crying i was like already already i got it i got it he's like tell that effing baby to stop crying because that's kind of how we talked to each other back then so i got next to yags i said it's okay man it's okay it's all right you and i we're up next we're up next we're gonna be okay you know but he went through some real

struggles people forget about that he could have easily just said this isn't for me like i'm gonna go back to checo for a while but he stuck it out and the bigger the games the better he played and next you know he just took off was there a moment where he did something in a game where all you guys looked at each other and said holy smokes now i see what we've got here really it was that 92 series against the rangers when we lost mario to the broken hand we lose joey Mullen to a big hit from Chris King. And we needed him. And that's when he became a man. That's when he became an elite superstar.

And it's like, he took over that series and it didn't matter what the Rangers were going to do. You could have put 20 Patrice Bergerons on him that night. It didn't matter. He took over that series and really he never looked back from there. So when you saw him a couple of years ago in Claude no did he get the message is it is it gonna happen yeah it's gonna happen great it's gonna i think the way it should be i actually talked to him about

a week ago and i said hey like penguins are thinking like maybe april he said borky i haven't retired yet because that was his thing he goes once i retire yeah he goes i'll be all for it we can talk about how the logistics and everything what he did say he he said i don't know if this will ever happen he goes because some teams came over the prog and i guess he dropped the puck and he he saw all that he said i don't know if there's any way the nhl could get the penguins to come over the prog i would love to have that moment with the team here do a puck drop announce my retirement then and maybe a couple weeks later come back to pittsburgh and put the jersey in the rafters that's kind of his that's kind of his his vision

his dream so i have no power but we're putting this clip all over social media we'll see if it works it'd be pretty special because i mean you And you asked me, like, you lose track. There's just so many incredible moments. When he was in his prime, right, just the power, the hanging on to the puck, the shot, I mean, it was all there. I want to ask you, you mentioned Kevin Stevens. You know, I asked you before the interview if it would be okay to ask you about Kevin Stevens.

Just, you know, how is he doing? You guys keep in touch? Good. I'm glad to hear that. Yeah, because about Kevin Stevens. Just, you know, how's he doing? You guys keep in touch? Good. I'm glad to hear that. Yeah. Because there were some dark days. You know, when things went south for him, he should be in jail, right?

It was that bad. And I guess the judge figured, hey, this guy could do more good in the community than bad sitting in a jail cell. So part of his release was to go out and talk to kids, talk to groups. And he didn't just do it to kind of check the box. He's continuing to do it. And I think his charity is called Power Forward 25 or something like that.

His sister Kelly is incredible. She's so behind him all the way. And so, yeah, I mean, if somebody that's listening that has a company, bring them in because he speaks from the heart and he's gotten better at it you know big arty with that Boston accent a little rough around the edges but he's worked at it and now he understands my words are powerful what I went through is a powerful stuff I mean everybody sitting in this room has gone through something at some time but are you able to find a platform and a stage where you can take the crap you went through, you can flip it upside down, and you can open people's eyes to say, wow, I'm a better

person for that half hour or hour I just spent with Kevin Stevens. Okay, I asked you about this before the interview, so you're primed for it. April 16th, 1992. Elliot, we talked about this about a month ago on the podcast. We wondered if there's ever been a situation where goalies have changed on the fly in the NHL. And there has. And Phil was in the game. Ken Reggett, Wendell Young, Pittsburgh Penguins, New York Rangers. You're on the ice? I'm on the ice.

Take it away. Yeah, we had talked about it. And, you know, Scotty Boma on the ice take it away yeah we had talked about it and you know Scotty Boma was the head coach a great Scotty right and so we're thinking

well Scotty's not going to like this at all but we didn't care I mean we were just a bunch of so you talked the goalies into doing it well no I wasn't

I'm not going to take that no because I talked to Ken Reggett and Reggett said that there are a few guys on the team like guys you've got

to do this on the like it was definitely it was definitely a group i'm sure troy looney was involved bobby area was involved i'm sure guys like that uh that like to stir the pot up a little bit and uh we thought what a great if we can do it let's do it you know um and so we probably did it when scotty had his back turned you know i mean and so i just remember being in the offense in the ranger zone and looking down the ice, and boom, there goes Kenny. And I see Wendell come flying on, and nobody caught it, right? That's my one referee, right? So why the hell not, you know?

But we were just a bunch of crazy lunatics back then that we just all got along somehow. What was the bench like after that? Because you guys were going crazy. You guys were supposed to love it because you pulled it off. We were just howling. Yeah. Just because we pulled it off.

I mean, that's what it was. We're just like a bunch of doing something in school. You weren't supposed to do it, but the teachers didn't catch it. So you're all kind of high-fiving each other. And Scotty knew what we were. I mean, what's he going to do? We were a bunch of crazies. Well, that was the thing that people all said,

is that Scotty Bowman ran his teams with an iron fist. But the one team he couldn't do that with was that Pittsburgh team. I'll tell you a quick story. Because if you remember that year, you know, we're trying to repeat. We lose Badger Bob Johnson to brain cancer in November. Around February, I think, we were bad, man. We were not a good hockey team. We were in jeopardy of missing the playoffs.

We're out in Calgary. Craig Patrick calls a a team meeting in the hotel in the ballroom kind of airs it out and just says hey anybody got something to say let's say it right now trots got up peter taglinetti got up bunch of guys troy loni got up finally i said i'm i'm gonna speak my piece here i get up and i said, Craig, we can't win with Scotty Bowman. The whole room went quiet. It's the greatest coach to ever be in the game, right? So Craig being Craig, if you know Craig, he's a very cerebral, even-keeled guy. He said, you know, trot's what you said. I like what you said.

Tag's what you said. That's all good, good, good. And he went around the room and he said, you know, okayots what you said. I like what you said. Tags what you said. That's all good, good, good. And he went around the room, and he said, you know, okay, we can work with this. Well, you know, that's something. And then he kind of circled back, and he said, then, Borky, what you said, I don't agree with. I think we can win with Scotty Bowman, and we will win with Scotty Bowman. I'll go to Scotty. He'll meet you halfway.

You meet him the other halfway, and we're going to start winning some hockey games. And he walked out of the room. We won that game in Calgary. Go check the record. And since that moment, we took off and we repeated with Scotty. Listening to that story and just, I wasn't in the business then, but I kind of remember the whole situation. Do you think the team and the organization needed someone to say what you said so it was out in the open? I think so. And that's what I try to encourage even to my 16-year-old son that plays hockey.

Speak from the heart. If there's something inside here or that little voice, you know, we all have that little voice. Some people say it's your conscience. Some people say, you know, if you're more spiritual, it's the Holy Spirit. When that little voice talks to you, freaking listen to it.

And I'm not just talking about stuff that I'm talking about now. I think in all, everything in life, you know? When you've left the house and you think you left the stove on, that voice is saying, go back and check the frigging stove. You know, do it, right?

And that just, something just spoke to me that I wanted to win so frigging bad that, you know, Craig might just say, no, like trade deadline hadn't come. He could ship me off for saying this, but I didn't care because I wanted to win so bad. Tell us about that room because that's a lot of really,

really large personalities in there. You know what changed it was Paul Coffey when he came in. He changed the room. He changed everything in Pittsburgh hockey. What we did on the ice, off the ice, how to be a team, how to win as a team. And he wasn't there in 92, obviously, because that was one of the ballsiest moves ever by Craig Patrick,

the trade two Hall of Famers, Mark Reckie and Paul Coffey. But we were just a bunch of alpha males. We became a group that we weren't afraid. We weren't afraid of winning. And I know that might not make sense, but if you think about it for a while, it does make sense. Because to win, you've got to leave it all out there. And every single guy.

You're only as strong as your weakest link if you want to be a championship team. And that's what Koff taught us, that don't be afraid to go for it. Don't be afraid to be great. And don't be afraid to say what needs to be said sometimes, even though it might not be uh what everybody wants to hear but if you if it comes from the heart then it will be well received he's blunt very blunt i like it

but in a very professional way where it's not always what you say but how you say it and uh nobody is better than cough when did you guys realize in 91, the first one, Minnesota, that you guys were going to win the Stanley Cup? After game three, when we opened up the newspaper. And I don't think the North Stars knew what they were saying. I think it was just kind of they were asked a question, and they answered the question. But they were asked because they were up 2-1 in the series. And they said, you know, have you ever thought about what it would be

to win the Stanley Cup? And, you, and somebody said, oh, yeah, I'd like to have a big diamond ring. And, yeah, we saw where the Minnesota Twins won a couple years ago, won the World Series, their parade route. That all got back to us. Boom, right on the blackboard. You hear about blackboard stuff. This was literally cut out of the paper, hockey tape, two-inch,

inch-and-a-half white, boom, on the board. We won three straight. Once that was put you know, inch and a half white, boom, on the board, we won three straight. Once that was put up there, it lit a fire under us. It was over. It was over at that point. You know, one of the guys, one of the guys I think of is Mike Peluso. When New Jersey won their first cup and he's crying on the bench, he can't go out and skate because he's so emotional.

But the game you guys win the cup, you win eight nothing. First of all, Mario's goal. Well, I hope you folks at home are joining the crowd here for a standing ovation for one of the prettiest goals you'll ever want to see. Very few could ever make this play like Mario LeBleu to put his team up 3-1. Here's another look at it. One against the world, and he digs the whole world on it here

as he gets Chambers going right, left, and in down. Casey thinks he's got him and gonna surprise him by coming out, but you don't surprise this guy when he gets the puck and thinks he might score. Beautiful is the only word to describe that play by number 66. Holy cow. What a goal by Mario Ramirez.

Those were two good defensemen that he made look bad. Yeah. And then you know for 20 minutes that you're about to win the Stanley Cup. When you say that, Elliot, the thing that comes to my mind is this is how dialed in I was, or had to be, as an undrafted fringe player that always in fear

of losing my job. It's just how I was wired. I remember looking up at the clock. It was 8-0, about two minutes to go. I was sitting next to Mark Recchi. I said, hey Rex, we're going to win the effing cup. And that's when, it wasn't until that point where I allowed myself, just breathe, breathe

and now you can enjoy it. Because to that point it was, keep going boys, keep going, stay on them. We're up eight nothing. But that's the fear that the healthy fear that i think you need to have yeah to get to the promised land listen to 32 thoughts the podcast ad free on amazon music included with prime front. Okay. What does the inside of the Stanley Cup look like?

Well, there were three French guys that had engraved their name on the inside, which was a big mistake. Yeah. Yeah, and I popped off the bottom because I had it for five days. This is way before Phil Pritchard and all that stuff. And something had come loose on the inside. I'm not a handy guy, but I got my toolbox out, popped off the bottom, put a pen light in my mouth, and I crawled inside, and I tightened up where the original bowl meets the tiered part.

And three French guys had engraved their name. It was slight. They had repaired it. And they just put repaired by da-da-da, and they put the date. Light bulb, put some beers on ice, got a screwdriver, took me three hours, and I put enjoy it. I put my name, Pittsburgh Penguins, 91 champs. So I was the only guy.

I was the only guy to have my name on the outside and the inside. But I think J.J. Daniel did it the next year uh and i think he did it in 93 when montreal won i think some other guys have done it since but you don't hear too much about it so if we open it up now would those also be in there i think because you know they take uh the couple rings off the rings off and i think then they've they've buffed out some of the names on the inside i I think. I think. I don't know. I haven't asked.

It's a good question. When you allowed yourself, let's go back here a second. When you allowed yourself to enjoy the moment where you're about to win the Stanley Cup, like he mentioned, undrafted player. You played Kingston in junior, then Baltimore Skipjacks and Genu Briaco and Bennett Wolfe, all these legendary names, right?

What goes through your mind a movie reel look you get me emotional just thinking about it just all the people that said oh he'll never make it you know probably my dad you know all that shit with my dad

the few people that actually like that stuck by you like it's Probably my dad, you know, all that shit with my dad. The few people that actually like that stuck by you, like it's it's emotional, man, because like what you have to do to get there. It's hard. It's really hard. So I don't want to push you or anything, but you mentioned your dad and all that. What are you referring to there? Oh, my dad. He's he's a bully yeah he uh he abused me bad man it's bad bad shit and just i wrote a book recently about it and helped get it out you know but my dad would like he beat me up man like if i had a bad game he beat me up i remember my mom having

to jump on his back to pull him off of me like it's hockey man you know like i don't know didn't have to be that way that's all yeah i understand yeah just tell us the name of your book if these walls could talk yeah and uh it was originally just supposed to be my time as a as a penguin but then with triumph books Books, I just said, I can't just, there's too much to it. There's too many layers to how I got to be a penguin. So they said, okay, let it fly. Just ride it. And I talked the way I talk to you guys.

I drop F-bombs. And he said, just do it. Just do it the way you would do it. And so I'm proud of it because a lot of it was self-inflicted. Like some of the stuff, like you talk about being a skipjack. I haven't told many people this. I was arrested my first two years pro. Nobody knows about this.

Assaulting a police officer my first year. Drunk and disorderly my second year. Wrong place, wrong time. I was actually sober the first one. It's a long story. I was a designated driver, and the guy I was taking home wanted to fight the guy who was an undercover cop in a drug sting. We screwed it up.

I ended up in the paddy wagon. Second year, I'm waiting in line outside the bar. Guy jumps on my back. We fall down, knock people over in the paddy wagon again. I haven't even had the drink yet. This is my first two years. I'm an undrafted player. Why didn't the Penguins just say, you donkey, just go home?

But they stuck with me, you know? So, like, there's no super highway. There's no Autobahn for me. It was all off-road, you know? And, you know, being a minor leaguer and just being happy being a pro, I finally, at one point, I said, I'm sick of riding the buses. And I got myself in the best shape of my life. And Paul Vincent, I don't know if you know Paul Vincent.

Oh, yeah. I went with Paul Vincent. It was actually myself and Adam Oates. We took power skating from Paul, and it took me to another level. And so, again, there's just so many different steps that you take. And for some guys, it's not not easy but it was a more streamlined path mine was way more difficult but it's who i am today what was gene ubriaco like for you and was was lou was lou angotti there when you lou was my first coach was he okay so he was your first

and then ubriaco yeah okay ubi ubi literally was like a dad i don't know why he took a liking to me He was like a dad. I don't know why he took a liking to me, but I look at him more as a dad than my dad. He just had my back. Yeah. Tell you a quick story. So we got hired head coach of the Penguins. I was working construction in the summertime.

I was up lifting plywood. The only phone at the site was attached to a telephone pole. So nobody had that number, but my mom had it just in case of emergency. Boss goes down, answers the phone, thinks it's something for delivery or whatever. He's like, Borky, phone. I'm like, oh, shit, it's my mom. She's the only one that would call. She said, Genio Briaco just called.

Here's his number. He needs you to call him right away. I'm like, I call up Ubi. I'm like, what's up? He goes, I just got hired as the Penguins head coach. You're on the team. Don't F it up. That was the conversation. That's the it up. That was the conversation.

That's the right message. And that was it. He goes, you're going to be on the team. Don't embarrass me and don't F it up. Okay. He had my back the whole way. Yeah. I grew up a big Blackhawks fan.

I remember in 92, they play you in the Stanley Cup final. I'm like, there's no way they're going to beat Pittsburgh. But game one, there's a little bit of hope. They get up big and you score. And I remember, I'm like, this is not going to work. This is just... So when I think of Phil Borick, I think of Chicago. Breaking your heart.

You started the comeback or you scored a big goal in the comeback. We were down 3-0. I think it was 4-0, actually. It was 3-0. Then I scored to make it 3-1. They score again to make it 4-1. You're right. Boom, boom, boom.

I'll tell you a quick story because Eddie Belfort was in goal. Bobby and I talk about this all the time because we're kind of similar players. He goes, we're on the bench, and Bobby goes, hey, that Belfort, he doesn't look comfortable on wraparounds. I'm like, what do you mean? He goes, don't try to jam, just wrap it and jam it in. He goes, take an extra step, come out from behind the goal line, and then try to go five-hole on him.

And if you get a chance to watch that goal, it's exactly what I did. Here comes Bork, but he's covered in front of the net. Chaleo's watching him, or make that marchment. Now there's Bork around the net, took a shot, he scores! To Bork! Oh, what a goal! I picked the puck Bork around the net. He scores! To Bork! I picked the puck up from around my net. I didn't try to just jam it on his left skate. I took an extra step and beat him five-hole.

So Bob Airy deserves the credit for this. I give Bobby full credit there. In round three, Eddie Belfort was beaten twice and nearly beaten another two times on wraparound goals. And I'm sure that's in the scouting report for the Penguins. And Phil Bork shows you right

here that Belfort gets a little confused. But I remember watching this game and I was like, this is all Phil Bork's fault. He started the comeback. We're the Pinguinis, man. We never did anything easy. I mean, what did we end up with?

6-5 or 7-6, whatever it was? I think it was Yagra scored off the faceoff in the last minute. That was Mario off the faceoff. Yagra had that ridiculous goal where he came off the half wall. Sorry, it's traumatic memories for me. I think it was, was it Dwayne Sutter? They turned inside out and jockstrapped from the. I think it was Brent.

It was Brent Sutter. Brent played for Chicago at the time. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that was crazy, man. Those were the penguiny days back then. Yeah. Pittsburgh, for all the great success, there's also been a lot of up and down moments where,

you know, we didn't know where this franchise was going to go. Was there ever a time you were worried the Penguins weren't going to make it? Oh, financially? Yeah. Oh, my God, yeah. How many times? Yeah, there were times when we couldn't get sticks in. Like Steve Lattin, our trainer, he's like, and I heard also there were times

we'd stay at hotels and the credit card didn't work and checks were bouncing. Like National Hockey League, man, it's the greatest league in the world. But that's how much of a, you know, they were on a shoestring, you know, the way they had to do things. You know, and then when with the new arena, you know, that would seem to be in limbo. We're going to Kansas City. I'm like, Kansas City?

You kidding me? Like then we're going to Quebec. It's just like, but again, going through all those ups and downs from the 80s when we were so bad, and then we get Mario, and then we're still not that great, and we lose in 1990 in overtime, you know, to the Buffalo Sabres, and we get knocked out. You know, in 08, we lose to Detroit in the final on home ice, you know. I felt like that's just our DNA.

We have to go through the most heart-wrenching type of losses, and then shortly thereafter, we win. You look at the Penguins, since they've had success, there's been a lot of bad, and then good comes right after it. Well, I hope the good continues so you don't have to go through the bad any time again.

I know. I think as long as Sid's around, I think we're okay. So what do you see on a day-to-day basis? Sid and Malkin and LeTang, too. You were with an incredible group. We talked about them. How does this group compare to that group? That's what's so shocking about what happened last year against the Rangers

because I've been around some really crappy teams, but I've been around some really good teams. It's a really good team because of the intangibles. So what separates the really good teams and the great teams? Intangibles. Again, strong is your weakest link, but also, do you really like each other to the point where you really love each other? And this team has such great chemistry. They're bonded so well that I really think great things are going to happen with this team. That's why it was so disappointing what happened last year. And injuries did play a part of it.

I know excuses are for losers, right? But sometimes excuses are reasons. And those injuries to Sid and to Raquel and Dumoulin and both the goaltenders, that's a big part of it. So if this team can stay healthy, it can do some really special things because there's some there's some special people in there that have some unfinished business what goes through your mind when the penguins are playing the buffalo sabers and you see matthias samuelson on the ice i'm old like i played with his dad you know. I think now that I'm a dad, now I've got a 16-year-old son who's a goalie

that has aspirations. I remember when Buffalo came into Pittsburgh recently, I looked across and there was Shell sitting there. And I put myself there like, what's that like? Like, what's it like to watch your kid play? Crazy, right? I can only imagine. There's just so many great stories out there from the Kachooks and on and on.

So many dads that we're close to the same age, so we get to watch them play. And now you're watching their kid play. It's pretty cool. How did you let your kid be a goalie? Quick story. We're playing knee hockey in the basement. He's probably seven or eight, and he always wanted to be goalie defense. So he's like, hey, NHLer, let's go, man.

Come on, give me what you got. I'm like, okay, here we go. So I ripped one, got him up in the collarbone. His name's Dylan. He goes down face first on the carpet. I'm like, oh, shit. I'm probably like, I'm like rubbing his collar. I'm like, you all right?

You all right, Dylan? He's like, oh, dad, you got me. You got me really good. He goes, then he looks at me. He goes, I kind of like oh, shit. I'm probably like, I'm like rubbing this, I'm like, you all right? You all right, Dylan? He's like, oh, dad, you got me. You got me really good. He goes, then he looks at me, he goes, I kind of like it too. I go, that's it. I go, you are a goalie. That's going to go one way or another. He's going to quit or you got a goalie.

Yeah, so now he's all about the gear and he's all in. Yeah. You know much more than the public about what goes on. When you were watching that 36 to 48 hour period last summer when malcolm was like i'm going free agency yeah and letang was close yeah did you think the band was done i did especially gino i thought just because gino is he's a polarizing figure isn't he because he's bad, he can be pretty bad. But when he's good, oh, man.

He still has the Gino Maschino. Like when he gets kind of galloping, you know, the way he can skate. And he's 6'3", but sometimes he looks 6'6". He's a massive guy. Massive guy. And he's so strong. And when he dominates, it's scary. And I thought, okay, maybe it's time for some fresh blood.

Sometimes that's good change is good sometimes but then when I heard that how bad Sid wanted to keep everybody together I found myself where Sid was at like this is special man this doesn't come around very often so I started to understand it selfishly I was thinking maybe it's time for a change because all these first round knockouts but then I thought, no, let's go again, man. I'm glad they did. I'm glad they did because it's a special group.

This is, I think, something that Merrick would be interested in. I heard Mike Lang, he's a pretty low profile now. Very low. But I hear that you and him are pretty tight. Very tight tight how is he doing and how much do you guys talk every day um mostly text almost every game he'll give me a little something i mean i'm still in broadcasting i think because he's kind of taking me under his

wing and little by little coached me up in a way found a way to talk to me that i'm like oh that's good mikey oh thanks mikey you know you know how to use my voice the volume the inflection to keep speaking from the heart you know you don't have to yell and scream which i used to do early on because i i get too excited you know it's just a bunch of little things but his his health is frail i mean he's probably down to jockey weight you you know, but he's still got that fire, you know. Some of the things he texts me or tells me that he watches the game, he watches all the little things. He's remarkable.

For a guy that never played the game, play-by-play guy, he thinks the game like a player because he always put himself around great players and he asks the right questions. He wasn't afraid to ask players what's it like to be in this situation and he garnered all that information and that's what made him an exceptional broadcaster it's a good lesson you uh you mentioned your son a second ago and said he's a equipment geek he's a gear geek he loves all of it i gotta ask you about one piece

of your equipment when you played yeah the jo The Jofa. The Jofa. Yeah. Anyone who ever uses it, I always ask the question, why? Chicks dug it. Made the mullet look good. I don't know. I guess that goes back to being in your 20s or 30s and being just a rebel. Because I don't know if you ever looked at it.

There's a little sticker on the inside of the helmet that says, this helmet is not to be used in the game of ice hockey. It's a broomball helmet from Sweden, right? But it was so lightweight, and I almost felt like it was part of my living on the edge, you know? I had that bad climbing accident in 94, that whole thing, you know? That's how I was just go, go, push the envelope, get the adrenaline. I lived on the edge like that, and I felt that was just part of my persona.

And you've got a young family now, right? Yeah, so how old are your children? So I have an 18-year-old daughter that's going pre-med at Duquesne, downtown Pittsburgh. Wow, congratulations. That's awesome. I got a two-year-old little girl. And December 17th, I just had a little boy. Oh, congratulations.

Bo Bork. Bo Bork. I love alliteration. Yeah. That's fantastic. That's a really good hockey name. Not to put any pressure on the young man. No, I know.

That's a really good hockey name. I know. I'm sizing him up for skates now. Right-hand shot or left-hand shot? He'll be a left-hand shot. And you said your daughter's pre-med at Duquesne? Pre-med at Duquesne, yeah. That's a really good homing name. I know. I'm sizing them up for skates now. Right-hand shot or left-hand shot? He'll be a left-hand shot. And you said your daughter's pre-med at Duquesne? Pre-med at Duquesne, yeah. That's pretty impressive.

She was born profoundly deaf in both ears, so she has two cochlear implants. So she really wants to be in the medical field. She wants to be an anesthesiologist. And that probably made her a high achiever, right? Very much. We have an understanding in our family of what those challenges can be like. So one thing I've really noticed is it makes people more competitive. So tell us a little bit about your daughter.

It's all in on school. That's the thing. What's her name? Madison. I can FaceTime her right now and say, Maddie, what are you doing? Homework. Homework. Homework.

That's her path to happiness. She's more of a follower, obviously. But if you don't know anything about cochlear implants, whoever came up with this is brilliant, you know, because it allows kids that can't hear to hear. So she's as normal. You barely know her speeches as normal because anybody that's deaf, they have that kind of nasally monotone type of speech.

You'd never know. But she's, yeah, she's beautiful. She's great. She's, yeah, she wants to be in the medical field. That's awesome. Congratulations. Yeah, thanks. Congratulations. No, you know, I just want to say, Phil, like you've been around the Penguins 40 years.

Yeah. There's a reason because people want you around. So, you know, Jeff mentioned you came up undrafted, the hard way. Gino Briaco believed in you. Like, you know, you created this path. I do want to ask one thing about that as well. Here comes my geeky junior question. And I have a feeling I know who Elliot's answer,

because I think he's given it before as well. While you played two years in Kingston, right? Two years, yep. Some really good players at that time. Was there one player that you looked at years in Kingston, right? Two years, yep. Some really good players at that time. Was there one player that you looked at and you said, I don't know how this guy didn't make it? I know Elliot's answer would be Ernie Godden, who you would have played against.

That's before Phil's time. Oh, was he in Windsor, right? Yes. Yeah, in Windsor. Oh, you did, eh? Yeah, at the same time. Oh, sorry, I thought. Oh, yeah.

Is there one guy from junior where you said, I thought this guy was can't miss? I mean, there were real good players. Yeah. He was the same time. Oh, sorry. I thought. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, is there one guy from Junior Reset I thought this guy was can't miss? I mean, there were real good players. Yeah. Was there an Evans that played for Peterborough? Yes. Smallish player? Paul Evans. Paul Evans?

Yes. I remember playing against him and going, holy moly. He had that playoff series against him. It was a real good series. I'll tell you a quick story because I know we're wrapping up here. My roommate was Bernie Nichols. So the family we live with, they own two businesses. They owned, in the summer, a dual drive-in.

In the winter, a fur store in downtown Kingston. So they said, hey, we're doing this full-page spread in the Kingston wig for our Christmas sale. We'd like you and Bernie to be in it. So Bernie's girlfriend was Miss Junior Ontario, Tressa. She had this hot friend, this blonde German girl named Gundy. So I was with Gundy. He was with Tressa, the whole thing. They said, instead of us compensating you with money for this, you can have your pick of whatever coat you want in the store. So Bernie picks a full length coyote. I took a full-length beaver.

Bernie gets $40,000 to sign with the Kings, puts it all into an electric blue Trans Am. So close your eyes for a second. Here's these two donkeys, okay? Electric blue Trans Am, middle of winter, Kingston, Ontario, full-length coyote, full-length beaver. We're like a couple of pimps walking in to play a junior game. It was awesome, man.

It was so awesome. It's junior hockey. I hope you still have it somewhere. No, I sold it. I sold it. I get tired of dragging it around everywhere. I wish I did have it, though. It'd be great.

Doug Evans. Doug Evans. Bingo. I got the wrong Evans. Doug Evans. That's a guy.. I got the wrong Evans. Doug Evans. That's a guy. Sean Babcock was another tough hombre that played in Kings. There was a bunch.

Mike Moffitt, Mike Stuthers. We had a fun team there. Stuthers was, when he played, raw bone. Yeah, he was mean. Tough. Yeah, hurt you mean. Kirk Muller on that team? Kirk Muller was, I ended up moving to a different family.

Kirk Muller was my next door neighbor. I moved to a different family. So yeah, he was, what, 16? 15 years old, I think. Yeah, he played a few games as a 15-year-old, I think. Two or three games at the end of the year. And then he plays as a 16-year-old, and yeah. Great stories, great memories.

Should be a wonderful day. Thanks for doing this. Looking forward to the Classic. Thanks so much for spending a lot of time with us game this is fun thanks well we really hope you enjoyed that interview with phil bork we want to thank phil for spending a lot of time with us during a very busy day for him he spent you know a large majority of his his morning hanging out with me and freed so uh we very much thank him for that uh and once again, the book, If These Walls Could Talk, Pittsburgh Penguins edition,

stories from the Pittsburgh Penguins ice locker room and press box, still available everywhere, Amazon, Indigo, wherever you get or order your books. I would recommend checking out triumphbooks.com. Taking us out is a three-piece indie pop band from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The Nora got their start in 2006, releasing their popular single, She's Just a Girl. Since then, the band has dropped four full-length records. From their latest album, here's The Nora with Fall.

32 Thoughts, the podcast. Enjoy. We can love, all you have to do is fall If you want to love We can love, all you have to do is fall If you want to love If you want to love If you want to run We're just human after all Don't fight it, don't fight it now

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If you want to If you want to go If you want to go