32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Remembering Gino

Episode Date: January 16, 2023

Jeff and Elliotte remember Canucks great, Gino Odjick, who passed away on Sunday at the age of 52. (00:10).They then talk Vancouver (5:00), their coaching situation, what they might be doing with Bo Horvat before moving on to the latest with the Boston and David Pastrňák (17:40), Bruins signing Pavel Zacha (21:00), potential moves in Arizona (22:30), Vince Dunn (24:00), Seattle setting records (26:15), Ottawa “embarrassed” (34:10), Chicago’s plan (36:00) and they guys take your questions (41:00).Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call The Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailMusic Outro: TESSEL - idkListen to the full track HEREThis podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Get your 32 Thoughts merch HEREAudio Credits: CBC, KJR FM, NBC Sports Chicago, Sportsnet and Sportsnet 650.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome Welcome once again to 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented by GMC and the new Sierra AT4X. Elliot, we have a lot to get into today, but we both thought we should really start the program by mentioning the passing of Gino Ojek, who passes away at the age of 52. A really beloved hockey player. I know how much they loved him in Vancouver specifically. Yes. We can all recall him playing with Pavel Bure and how much Gino protected Pavel in Vancouver. One of the enduring highlights is the penalty shot goal on Mike Vernon.

Just your thoughts on Gino Ogic, who was really loved by everyone, everywhere that he went. It's just another reminder of a forgotten era in hockey when the enforcer, the player who did a lot, who had the toughest job to earn their living that way, was one of the most popular players on the team and in the market.

For a long time, for example, in Toronto, the best-selling jerseys were Matt sundin whoever the goalie was whether it was curtis joseph or ed belfor and then ty domi yep and actually gino ojic said at one point in time one of the toughest guys to fight was ty domi because of how good he was at positioning his body and and that was the case in vancouver is that you know Pavel Bure had a really popular jersey. Trevor Linden had a really popular jersey. Kirk McLean had a really popular jersey, but so did Gino Ojek. He had an extremely popular jersey. When the announcement came on Sunday, as they were playing the Hurricanes, I don't think anybody was surprised by the outpouring of emotion

from Canucks Nation for OJIC and I thought it was really interesting how after Ethan Baer scored to get the Canucks into that game he said post-game yeah it's very sad news like I honestly haven't really talked to my family or my friends about it yet um but uh yeah obviously it's you know I heard I scored right after he passed so I think that's pretty powerful yeah I mean it was meant to be maybe he was there for me on that shot so it's just you know I'm just

obviously I haven't really got much to think about about it on it yet I don't know how many of you are karmic thinkers like that or think like that but it really connected with me when I heard Bear's quotes I don't know how many of you are karmic thinkers like that or think like that, but it really connected with me when I heard Bear's quotes. I don't know what memories you may have primarily of OJIC. You mentioned a couple there, Jeff, but there's a couple that I'd like to mention.

First of all, he told the story of when he was drafted. He wasn't expecting to be drafted. And even though he was there, he'd gone to get a hot dog because he thought that he was still a couple rounds away from being picked. I absolutely love that story. And I think the other thing, Jeff, is just the relationship between him and Pavel Bure. Pavel Bure comes over from Russia at a time where Russians are still fighting for acceptance in the National Hockey League. Gino Ojek is First Nations at a time where a lot of members of First Nations communities felt like outsiders. And they connected because they weren't comfortable yet in their shoes in their city.

And it was a lasting friendship. And I think the thing that I remember too is, do you remember why he was traded by the Canucks, Jeff? No, I don't. He wasn't a Mike Keenan guy. Pat Quinn was fired. Mike Keenan comes in. And a lot of the people who were prior to Keenan

were going to be gone but he stood up for Trevor Linden Mike Keenan and Trevor Linden were feuding and he stood up for Linden and from that time it was only a matter of when the Canucks were going to trade him and I always respected that about Ogic he stood up for his captain even Lennon had given up the captaincy to Mark Messier, he had been OJIC's captain and OJIC was doing what he always did, stood up for a teammate and he got traded because of it. And he thought it was the right thing to do. And I really respected that about him.

Our thoughts are very much with the family and the friends of the late Gino Ogierk. Okay, Elliot to the Vancouver Canucks, and not exactly a secret that it wasn't exactly yesterday when the Vancouver Canucks organization gave up on Bruce Boudreaux as their head coach. I'll tell you one thing. It doesn't look like the players have given up on Bruce Boudreaux as the head coach. Sunday, they go into Carolina.

Last game of the road trip, they beat Carolina in the shootout. Gorgeous move by Elias Pettersson. Who else but Elias Pettersson with a chance to win it for the Canucks. Pettersson into the slot, dekes to the backhand. He scores! Elias Pettersson with the Peter Forsberg patented move. And the Canucks win the final game of the road trip. They knock off the Metropolitan Division leading Carolina Hurricanes.

We all know what's on the horizon. This is a big discussion. Your thoughts, first of all, on the positive. The win in Carolina. Well, not only of all, on the positive, the win in Carolina. Well, not only the win, just the way they won. Full credit to everyone on the team. They were down 2-0 after one. They gave up a goal in the last minute of the first period.

Bear didn't get them on board until almost 38 minutes were done in the game. They had every excuse to pack that one in. Nobody would have been surprised that they had lost that game trailing by two goals to that point, but they found a way, and those guys deserve a lot of credit for playing for their coach and for themselves, with Besser sending it into overtime with 17 seconds remaining in regulation. So Jim Rutherford is going to speak on Monday at 10 a.m. local,

so that's 1 p.m. Eastern time, on the Tanner Pearson situation. And I think the one thing to recognize here, and I think the one thing we have to be careful about, is that we don't know the full details yet. We know he's going to have another surgery, and probably two, one this week. We know there's going to be a meeting with the NHLPA. Now we're going to find out the Canucks side. And one thing you always have to be careful of is let's get the full story because we don't know it yet. And my biggest thing is Pearson's health. Like hopefully this isn't a situation as everybody's worried about where his career is potentially impacted. You know, the other thing I just wanted to say was about Quinn Hughes, Jeff.

Yeah. Quinn Hughes has gotten some criticism for speaking out. I don't think you can ever be critical of somebody for standing up for a friend and a teammate. I understand that injuries are not a thing that a lot of hockey players or people like to have discussed. For example, when I had COVID for the first time, I didn't want to announce it on my Twitter feed. Like people said, you should announce you have COVID because you're missing time on the broadcast and it's obvious and you're not tweeting. And I was like, no, it's nobody's business but my own. I'm not doing that. But I think in this particular case, he's standing up for a teammate and a friend.

And I just don't understand how anybody can fault that. Like that's what hockey is about, right? So it's emotional and it's not exactly like Hughes is a guy who runs his mouth off. I can't see how anyone could have fault with that. But the overall situation, Jeff, is Boudreaux. And I don't know when the Canucks are planning on making the coaching change. And as I said, Saturday night, I think it's time for them to just say to him, look, we're making a change. It's not right or not fair to have you keep around doing this. I think with Boudreaux, I think what you can do is say, look, we're making a change here. First of all, I don't think they wanted to do it on the road. I think there's a couple of things going on here. I don't think they wanted to do it on the road. I think there's a couple things going on here.

I don't think they wanted to do it on the road. And I also heard that I think they want to do one announcement. I think they want to do it all at once. And yes, I get all of that. But we all see what's happening here. And I think the right thing to do is, you know, you could always say to him, do you want to even go to him and say do you want to coach it out or until we make the change because everybody knows what's going to

happen here or jeff what you do is say bruce we're not going to make you do this you're going to go and we're going to have an interim do it until we have the next person in but i think one of those two things should happen i can't see boudreaux quitting to be honest can you see any way that they go to bruce boudreaux and say hey you know do you want to step aside here can you see bruce saying no i'm not gonna like here's the guy like no i i think you're completely right but i've just got to say it i was just throwing ideas out there anyway no i get it they i mean we i mean we all found you guys talked about this and showed it Saturday on Hockey Night during the Vegas-Edmonton game.

You know, Boudreaux saying... I just wake up every day and go to work until they tell me not to. I think the whole hockey world looked at that like you have to have the coldest heart not to feel some compassion for Bruce Boudreaux and what he's going through. And I thought, you know, the point on the panel was the right one. Like show some compassion here.

Like this has to end. Like it's gotten to a point. The interviews at the beginning of the year that Rutherford gave were one thing. But now that we all know what's happening here and where this is going and who's going to be standing behind the bench. They've basically made a hire. I'm with you guys on Saturday. This has to end. This is cruel and unusual.

I don't think that Bruce would be interested at all in stepping down or saying, no, I don't want to go through this. Put Mike Yeo in there. I think that Bruce is a hockey lifer. And as long as there's an opportunity for him to coach, he will coach. I think you step in and say, look,

we can't keep putting you through this. Yeah. It's a bad look on the entire organization. And I understand your point of wanting to do everything in one fell swoop, but what's your grandmother's great line, Elliot? You plan, God laughs.

That happens. Just do the right thing here. A couple of other things there, Jeff. Someone said to me today they wouldn't be surprised if the Canucks are looking at Sergey Gonchar too. The defense whisperer? I thought about him for Quinn Hughes. He's a smart guy.

Look what he did with that Penguins back end. Look what he did for, I mean, I always think of Trevor Daly, but he's not the only one. He really did a miraculous job with that Pittsburgh Penguins back end. I mean, oh, the strength is up front and all the firepower, et cetera. Man, that back end was really good during their Stanley Cup runs, and a lot of that was Sergei Gonchar. 2017, LeTang gets hurt.

That's the only blue line ever to win a Stanley Cup without a single player who'd ever received a vote for the Norris trophy. Remarkable, eh? Pretty amazing. Sergei Gonchar. Listen, if you've discovered that there's a couple of contracts that you just can't move, what do you do? Well, you try to make them better and you try to make them work.

I mean, I think the Sergei Gonchar move, if indeed it does happen, I think it's a smart one. Someone else mentioned to me that if they wanted someone local who's a really good defensive coach, they mentioned Richard Matvichuk, who used to play. He's still out there. And he used to play, of course, for the Dallas Stars. Darian Hatcher's partner. That was another name that was mentioned,

but I wouldn't be surprised if Garchar is on their radar. One more quick thing on the Vancouver Canucks. I mentioned this on Saturday on Hockey Nights. O'Horvat and the Vancouver Canucks have spoken to teams. It does revolve around players, not prospects. Although there was at least one team, they asked for the team's number one prospect, which is not exactly a surprise. But they're not doing this doing this thinking you know what we're going to pick up draft picks and

this is a rebuild no no they're looking for in any bohorvat deal they are looking for players to step in and take roster spots and like i mentioned on saturday i don't believe that this is to the point where anything is serious where they're close close to pulling the trigger on a deal. For Bo Horvat, this is more just read the marketplace, get a sense of what you can do. So you start to plan things out now that all the scouting meetings are getting done and some have already concluded.

I think that we know where this is headed, even though Vancouver will most likely go back one more time to have a kick at this, to see if there might be a way to bring Bo Horvat back into the mix highly unlikely but I never want to say 100% that it's not doable but highly highly unlikely and I think we know where this one is headed as well Elliot yeah I think it's a very very low chance that he gets re-signed. And I'm curious to see if they do let any teams talk to him. You know, right now the answer is no, as you said the other night.

But I wonder if they get a team that says, we'll give you this prospect, a prospect that Vancouver likes, but we have to be able to talk to him first. Like one of the things I know that happened with Kevin Fialiala last summer is that when minnesota and la were talking trade minnesota gave la a window to get it done and they didn't get it done in time but from what i heard later much later is they got enough leg work done that those two teams were comfortable making the trade that the Wild wanted and the Kings wanted because they knew they could sign them.

That's what I wonder here. If you identify a prospect that you want and the other team says, yes, we'll put them in if we can sign them, that's a situation where Vancouver can use that to their advantage like Minnesota and LA did. It'll be interesting because it's one of two ways they can do this thing.

And if it's just a strict rental, then that opens up another conversation in the off season. Where does he end up next season? But that's getting ahead of ourselves here. But that's the latest as I've been able to glean about Bo Horvat. You know, one person mentioned to me on Saturday as well that he could see Edmonton long-term being a fit for Bo Horvat.

One, because A, you know, he's an excellent player. Two, he'd be amenable to going there. And three, who knows about the future of their two big dogs there, specifically, you know, Leon Dreisaitl, who's a couple years away from unrestricted free agency. So I thought that was an interesting one to lob out there. I wonder how they could do it cap wise, but it's an interesting idea. You know, like one thing about Edmonton is I

think Evander Kane could be back as early as Tuesday and how are they going to get them on the roster? It'd be some moves. And one of the things is Koston deserves a spot. That's one of the best trades in the NHL this year has been Koston's trade to Edmonton.

Also, Janmark has played very well. I'm wondering if there's another forward, a surprise forward who goes on waivers. Well, they have to do something. So I think it's probably a forward, and you can go up and down the roster and see who the potential candidates are. But if they can't make a move otherwise

i wonder if it's going to be a day a couple days to check the waiver wire here i don't know that i can recall a time where we've seen a team go through a situation as public as vancouver is with both their head coach which everybody knows is going to be fired yeah and their captain which everybody knows is going to be traded yeah i can't recall seeing this before elliot please tell me someone maybe you are writing a book about the last couple of years somebody has to there's no question about it somebody has to and also we should just mention luke shen um you know we just mentioned the other night on the show. Yep.

It's interesting now. Tampa and Toronto know they're going to play each other. It's 95% they're going to play each other. And they're sizing each other up. They're looking at each other. And now they can say, look, they both have to beat more than just each other. But you've got to get there first, right? And I think Tampa knows Shen.

He won two cups there. I think he's on their radar. I think they're looking for another third-line player. You can pick the mold in the Gour, Goodrow, Coleman, Nick Paul, Brandon Hagel mold. I think they're looking for another one of those guys, and I've got no doubt that Toronto is looking at Tampa and saying, what do we need?

But I think Shan is very much on Tampa's radar. They would like to have him back. Tough one. They don't have a first or a second. Yeah, but if you're right and they're looking for more prospect-y guys, maybe Tampa's got something they like. The one thing we do know about Tampa,

there are always players in Syracuse ready to join the NHL. They find ways to get trade style. Listen to 32 Thoughts, the podcast, ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. You know, Elliot, maybe one of my favorite moments of Hockey Night in Canada's second intermission yesterday was when you said, essentially, and I'm paraphrasing,

don't take this out of context. Everybody calm down before I tell you this, but it sounds like there's been some progress between the Boston Bruins and David Pasternak. We'll get to the Pavel Zaka extension here in a second, but what's the latest with their franchise winger, who's a pending unrestricted free agent and perhaps an impending new contract i got a hilarious text last night after the toronto game right after it was over the bruins announced an extension for pavel zaka at four times 4.75 and someone texted me and said did you get told bruins are about to sign the check and assumed it was poster knock instead of zaka and you got the wrong one and i laughed and i said no that's that's not

true i'm not that stupid i'm pretty stupid but i'm not that stupid don sweeney came out the gm and he held a uh media conference to discuss the zaka signing and he was asked if there was any update on Pasternak and he just simply said no and didn't get much there. So this is the theory and I want to stress again, it is a theory. I think the Bruins have spent a lot of time recently and it makes sense trying to take care of their business before the trade deadline. You know, the deadlines March 3rd were six weeks away, and I think the Bruins want to know what they have done long term and what they don't. Zaka they acquired, he had no contract after this year, and they took care of their business in that particular situation so I think

what they're trying to figure out is what business can we take care of before the deadline and Posterknock is obviously included in that I think the Bruins and Posterknock's agent want to keep this as quiet as they possibly can. But I heard yesterday and just doing my calls for the Saturday show that there are a number of people around the league who suspect that they are talking, they have made some progress, but for obvious reasons, they want to keep it pretty quiet. They just don't want to turn it into a frenzy or anything like that. That is the way the Bruins prefer to do business, and that is what everyone is trying to do here.

I got a lot of no comments. I didn't get any denials. I got a lot of no comments. Everyone wants to keep it under wraps here, but I do think they've made some progress. Now, are they on the one-yard line? No, I don't believe that. But are they in the red zone?

I'm not even sure they're in the red zone yet. But are they in the defense's territory? Yes, I think they're in the defense's territory, and they're trying to drive to get a score. This is NFL playoff weekend, so these are the analogies that I'm thinking of right now. I think they're driving, and they're trying to get a score, and we'll see if they get there. But I just generally get the sense around the league that everyone believes there has

been some degree of progress made there. We'll see. Let's hope it closes for, for Pasternak. So Pavel Zaka, Elliot, and what always amazes me is his age. It feels like Pavel Zaka has been in the NHL for 20 years. That's the way it feels to me. Like it feels like itvel Zaka has been in the NHL for 20 years that's the way it feels to me like it feels like it's a million years ago I was watching him in Sarnia playing on a line with Jordan Kairou and Nikita Karestilev he's only 25 years old like this is a really good deal for the Boston Bruins 4.75 AAV you know when they put that check line together it can be magical as well I

think this is a this to me looks like a really smart, safe, good deal for the Boston Bruins. I don't disagree with you on that. And you know what? Forwards who can play multiple positions in multiple lines? That's it. In a cap world, you need those people. Oh, I can play him here.

I can play him there. I can play him in this spot. I can play him in that spot. I can play him in that spot. I've always gone back to this. When Jordan Stahl was in his second year, he was really struggling. And I remember Ray Shiro, that was the GM of the Penguins at the time,

we talked about would he go to the World Juniors? And he said, no, he's an NHL player. And not only that, but he's a cap-friendly player. This was even before cap-friendly existed. Ray Shiro should probably ask for royalties. I was going to say, he got the name for it. He said he's a cap-friendly player. And not only because he was on his entry-level contract at the time,

he just said that in the cap world, you're going to need flexible players who can play center, wing, up and down the lineup. And he talked about that at the time that Jordan Stahl, even his second year, was an important player for the Penguins because he could do that. And obviously I don't think Zaka is Jordan Stahl, but I think he's a good flexible player

and teams need that. One of the other things I mentioned on Saturday, and this is again, the caveat being if the right deal is there based on performance, based on how much of a team friendly contract he has, how much of a really good season he's having right now that the Arizona coyotes would be open to moving Karel Vemelka. And that kind of hints at something that you wrote about in your blog this

week, which is, you know, one of the things that the Arizona coyotes need to take stock of is how close is Ivan Prosfatov? Like if he's really close, it makes it that much easier. And that's probably one of the things they're weighing right now. But I don't know that there are many, if any, and we've talked about this a few times,

players on that roster that they wouldn't be amenable to trading. I know, you know, last year there were a lot of rumors about even someone like Lawson Kraus, who's having a really nice season. Would they entertain the idea of moving Clayton Keller, for example? And I just don't think that it's a no-fly zone if someone called about Karel Vemelka. I think it might be a bigger deal than we would think of, considering how long he's been in the NHL.

But I still think that they're open to making a move with their goaltender. I've liked that guy for a couple of years now. I'm a fan of Amelka. If I needed a goaltending, I would definitely be interested in him. I wanted to mention, you had a good little note on Vince Dunn

punting the contract at the end of the year. No hurry, casual conversations, no negotiations. I think both sides, it sounds like they really like where this is going. Vince Dunn during this winning streak has been outstanding. Going into Saturday's game, and now they've won eight games in a row after handing it to the Chicago Blackhawks.

Vince Dunn in that streak going into that game was a leading scorer for the team in that streak. He's been exceptional. He's playing 23 minutes a night. He's playing first pair. When you looked at Vince Dunn on the St. Louis blues, and you can understand it young defenseman,

there's some big players in front of them, like some really like long time established NHLers. I get it. I know it's hard to get into that top four, but did you not look at Vince Dunn and say, man, if only this guy could get a chance, like if there was somewhere where he could get more minutes, you know, learn at the NHL level,

make mistakes and not be punished for it and develop into that defenseman. We saw playing with the ice dogs in the OHL. There could be a really good defenseman in Vince Dunn and we're seeing it now. He's on the last year of a $4 million per season deal. There's no hurry on either side. I think they're going to let the season play itself out. He's arbitration eligible. That could be a factor here as well. And then when you're away from unrestricted free agency, the one thing about Vince Dunn, and listen, I don't think Seattle wants to test this.

I don't even think that Vince Dunn wants to test this either. As much as we talk about how much he's turned himself into a really good defenseman and a really good scoring offensive threat here, he's a little bit nasty too. I know he's not the biggest dog out there, but he's a scrappy, high street tough kind of player. There's a whole lot there. And the Seattle Kraken are the beneficiaries of all of it. He is due a raise. We all know that.

Don't know how much of a raise, but there doesn't seem to be any urgency on either side right now for Vince Dunn. And that's fine. One of the things about Ron Francis is he's patient. So I don't think that's going to be a problem for them there. I met his family on the ice when they won the Stanley Cup in St. Louis.

Nice people. So I'm happy to see their son doing very well. That whole Seattle thing, could you believe that? In below the goal line in front, Bjorkstrand scores! And the two-point conversion is good. For the fourth time this season, the Kraken have hit eight goals

in a game. Take deck, Blackhawks. That's what the Kraken are thinking after Chicago has the audacity to score on them in the third period, and the Kraken double that. 8-3. Bjorkstrand on a two-point night with his seventh of the season and this was right from the hash marks the first team in nhl or nba history

to do that sweep a seven game road trip like you like you think of all of the great teams we've seen in sports in the nhl and nba you our lifetime, we have seen, for the first time ever, 270 win NBA teams. The Michael Jordan Bulls and the Steph Curry Golden State Warriors. And I can understand the Bulls not having an eight-game or seven-game road trip because they're in the center of the continent. But I got to think maybe, I wonder if Golden State ever had one. I don't know, but that's an incredible stat.

Like what an absolute accomplishment that is for their team. Just phenomenal. It really is. And it's capped off with an 8-5 victory. Every forward on that team had a point in the first period. Remarkable, right?

And at the end of it, Adam Larson, I'm not a huge plus minus guy, but it's a legit stat, is plus seven. Oh, the analytics people are going to kill you. I know. Plus seven. Come after him with the torches, everyone. Jeff quoted plus minus. Here comes send the monster out.

Send the monster out. Torches outside the castle gates. Here's the thing. And we mentioned this last podcast, I believe, this was supposed to be the month that killed Seattle. Like when you look at the schedule, this was the month that we looked at and we said,

okay, they're piling up wins, it's Q3, playoff position, that's Q2, but January will break Seattle because this road trip, it's three weeks of four games each week, right? Like Islanders, Edmonton, Toronto, Ottawa, first week. Montreal, Buffalo, Boston, Chicago, second week. Now they're heading into the third week of January

and it's not getting any easier. Tampa, Edmonton, New Jersey, Colorado, and then they get a few days off and then things ease up in the final week where they only have three games, Vancouver, Calgary, and Columbus. This was supposed to be the month that broke the seattle kraken not the month that put them into the rarefied air of smashing nhl and nba records for each it is absolutely amazing what they did here i remember years ago when when i did the raptors they had a really successful

road trip and they and they came home and they, they got pasted in the first game. And, and, uh, and, and I remember like one of the front office executives was like, oh man, you do that great in the road. You put up a stinker like this at home. And I'm like, are you guys satisfied with anything? Like you just had an unbelievable road trip and they were an expansion team or a second year team. And I mean, your fans get it. Like they get it. Like they understand that what you just did was spectacular and you have to lose some time.

But I mean, I don't know what else there is to say aside from it is an incredible, incredible accomplishment. You know, the, the thing that we've talked on the podcast about how other teams warned after exhibition games that Seattle has been much improved. I'm just wondering if they're going to continue to be able to score at this pace. That's the one thing that's really blown me away about this. They've moved up to second in the league, tied for second with Boston, just behind Buffalo, 3.76. Here's the number, okay? Buffalo 3.76. Here's the number. Okay. So the NHL keeps a five on five shooting percentages since 2009 and 10 Seattle this year at five on five is shooting 11%, 11.2%. What's wild is Vancouver second at 9.7 and San Jose is third at 9.6.

So if you want to be a good shooter, go out to the West Coast, I guess. But so you go back and you input on NHL.com five-on-five shooting percentage above that or equal 11.2% since that time. Here's what you get. Nobody. Whoa. Nobody. Here's what you get.

Nobody. Whoa. Nobody. Seattle is having a shooting percentage season for the ages right now. I know what everyone's going to think. There's going to be regression and maybe there will, but it's pretty impressive to watch. The best season, Jeff?

For a player? No, for a team. Oh, geez. I know for a player, I think maybe the answer is alex tange but go ahead who's the team for a player hopefully there'll be somebody like ian at the beginning of the podcast who's willing to do the research for us because we're too lazy to do it i'm just doing teams right now i want to say career alex tange maybe number one would you stop saying players i'm talking about teams here. What are you doing here? Just trying to distract you on a Sunday afternoon.

That's all. You know I have the attention span of a flea. Don't do this to me. Cats and laser pointers with Elliot Friedman every day on the podcast. The 2012-13 Toronto Maple Leafs, 10.7. And that was a 48-game season. The best in 82-game season, last year's year's blues 10.6 and forget there don't forget

there were like six guys on the blues last year who had career high points the other thing to mention too is it's not as if they're getting you know 915 and 920 or 925 save percentage goaltending either for martin jones and philip grauer. Although he just came off a huge shutout streak Jones. Yep. And you know, the mantra, my new mantra about the NHL is just give me one more save.

And that's what he's doing. Recently he's been giving them a lot of saves, but all you need is one more save. Are you impressed at how I haven't mentioned that Daniel Sprong scored again? I knew it was coming. All right, we'll move on from Seattle. A couple of more things here.

Wanted to mention Jake Ottinger and the mask dilemma from last week. Yes, you did some research on this, yes. Made a couple of calls. And essentially what it comes down to is if the goaltender's strap breaks, but he can't get his mask off, you're not getting the whistle. More so, you know, he tried to pull it off. I think it was like three or four times and couldn't, which the officials looked at and said, if you can't pull the thing off at three or four attempts, is it really a safety issue at this

point? Or are you just trying to get a whistle? Now I had wondered, I think you had wondered too, if something official had gone out to the NHL referees, you know, warning about these types of things. And we all remember what happened in that Dallas Winnipeg game with Connor Hellebuck. And the answer is no. Referees are still instructed to use their discretion. And in that case, even

though there was a strap off, and there is, by the way, a secondary debate about strap technology and can the NHL work with manufacturers to come up with something different. So if a puck blows the top of the mask, the strap doesn't come off automatically. There is technology, I believe, because people have DM'd me about it, that would help that, but that's for another issue. officials are told to use their discretion uh nothing has gone out saying you know wag your finger at the goaltenders and teach them a lesson that's just simply the official looked at that you know there was a was there a strap off yes uh could the mask come off on its own no when the goaltender tried to pull the mask off could he initially no so the play proceeded nice to see you do some research for a change change. You left that part out. All right, a couple of things I just want to chat about

before we go to questions and answers. Number one, Ottawa. I'm going to be really curious to see Ottawa on Monday night in St. Louis. You know, everybody has a stinker. That was a real bad stinker, a really bad stinker in Colorado. Colorado has been really struggling.

It's not like they're the regular Avalanche juggernaut. And I always want to see how you answer after a game like that, where you lose seven to nothing. I think the Senators are still going to go out and try to get a defenseman. I've heard that they consider it important that they try to get somebody and finish this year up strong. They feel that their players need it, that the organization needs it, and it's not acceptable to send a message that you can just wilt now through the end of the season. So we talked about the Dumba stuff the other day. I don't know if it's going to be him, but I wouldn't be surprised if they go out and get somebody still. And I wouldn't even be surprised if it was a rental. I think they want to show their players

and their fans that they're not going to coast, that they're going to try to compete as hard as they can. And if they have to make a move to get someone, they'll do it. And I expect they're going to come out on hard tonight monday night because you can't have that you you cannot send a message that that's acceptable you saw brady kachuk's comments after no surprise about how it's embarrassing yeah it's embarrassing um yeah it's embarrassing inexplicable as well do you think yeah i mean just can't keep doing this. It's frustrating.

Yeah, it's kind of I'm at a loss for words right now. That's a home game for Kachuk. Yes. On Monday, not the one on Saturday, the one on Monday. You wanted to mention Lucas Reichel at some point

during the podcast. So I thought this was really interesting. You know, Reichel played really well in his brief trial here. You know, he looks like he deserves more of an NHL opportunity. Three points in four games.

I felt he did. It sounds like a lot of the Blackhawks fans felt he did. And I've told you this many times. I believe your roster should be about who deserves to be on it. And to me right now, Lucas Reichel deserves to be on the Blackhawks roster.

He should be playing right now because he's earned a spot. You never want to send a message or you want to do it as little as possible that politics or waivers and non-waivers is the kind of move that you decide what you're going to do. Now, that said, I thought Kyle Davidson's comments when he discussed this were really interesting. And it intrigued me a little bit about Davidson. I don't like tanking.

The league doesn't like tanking, I don't think. But we're all understanding right now, especially after watching the World Juniors, why teams are tanking and basically kyle davidson and the blackhawks have a plan and they have chosen to stick to that plan we we make sure that they understand the big picture and there's there's a roadmap there and there has been from the start of the year and make sure that um when you're making decisions that they they understand them and you know as we've talked about uh in the past with with players they don't necessarily uh it's not their job to see the big picture but it's your job to help them understand and walk them through

why you're doing things and why you think it's best long term and and that's something we've done with with not only Lucas but with a lot of our prospects that you know what they're they're they're knocking on the door and and some of them could they play in the NHL they probably could but uh it there's it's a question of what's best for their development long term and being in situations that we can provide them in Rockford on a very good team in a very good league I think is something that and they have chosen to stick to that plan and I can't say I like it but the one thing it it gives me a little bit of respect for Davidson as a leader of the hockey operations of the team what he believes in and what he's doing.

Kyle Davidson and the Blackhawks have a plan and that is to get Conor Bedard. And this move is about that plan. Again, I can't say I like it. I can't say I would do the same thing. Because I think the toughest thing in sports is to stick to a plan. Because of the pressure and because fans vote with their wallets. And you have to listen to your fans, absolutely, when they vote with their wallets. And there's a lot of noise out there right now on social media about everything. Everything's an outrage. And I thought it was interesting that Kyle Davidson basically said,

I know you're not going to like this, and I know people don't like this, but this is our plan, and I'm going with our plan. I think on some level, it says something about Davidson that not only would he do it, but he would go out there and explain it. Like I said, I don't like it.

I understand it. I do understand it. The last general manager we heard discuss this as openly was Tim Murray with the Buffalo Sabres. The great tank battle between Buffalo and Arizona. Which just was remarkable. That was one for the ages. But you're right.

Lucas Reichel looked fantastic. He really did. Three points, four games. I understand. I should say this too, Jeff. If I was the player, I wouldn't like it. If I was the player's agent, I wouldn't like it. Well, that's just it.

He gets called up, he performs well, and because of that, he gets sent down. That's some real pretzel logic right there. It's counterintuitive. Correct. But what did we talk about a couple of weeks ago here on the show? Every organization knows how good Conor Bedard is.

Everyone in an NHL organization who watched the World Juniors said, yeah, that's what we're talking about. The key is now fans know. Fans know. Now Kyle Davidson can go out there and say, this is why we're doing it. And fans will accept it.

That's the difference. Yes. Because the world juniors didn't shock any NHL teams at all, but now all fans know. All fans know. All fans know. Hey, Jeff and Freedj. This is Ian Holm calling from Owens Sound, Ontario. Really excited to hear you guys are going to be up here doing the podcast live at Hartwood Hall.

I unfortunately could not score any tickets for it. It's probably the hottest ticket of the whole weekend, but I do have an answer for you. The team that has drafted the most Owens Sound attack players would be the LA Kings with a grand total of six, which actually doubles everyone in second place, which is a big tie between Buffalo, Colorado, Florida, Philly, and Toronto. Hopefully I can get some bonus points with that little extra bit there. Anyway, hope to see you guys when you're up here and cheers. We'll see you then. Bye now. Okay, Elliot. And first of all, Ian, thanks for that phone call. That was on the thought line, 1-833-311-3232.

I love it when our listeners do our homework for us. Yes. And so we always appreciate that because one thing you should probably glean by now from this podcast is Elliot and I are lazy. We love it when other people do our work. And yes, Ian, thanks for that. And as you referenced, the podcast will be in Owen Sound as part of Scotiabank Hockey Day in Canada.

Live recording of the podcast Thursday at Hartwood Hall, 3.30 Eastern. Guests include Landy McDonald, Joey Hisham, Les Binkley, Blair Turnbull, Mike Fuda, and Bobby Ryan. And yes, the answer was the Los Angeles Kings. I'm excited about this one. I love when we do these live events for each first of all ian just won a couple of tickets for doing our work for us oh is he getting tickets yeah amal came up with an extra pair because amal is just as lazy as we are

and he wanted to make sure that ian was rewarded for doing his work too. So Ian, congratulations. And we're going to inform people by Monday. Everybody should receive the notification of whether or not they won tickets. And this is just more proof that the world is full of confirmation bias, Jeff, because who used to work in Owen Sound but Michael Fuda, who was a longtime member of the King's front office.

The Los Angeles Kings. Very good. Okay, Elliot, we'll finish up the podcast with some emails. The address is 32thoughts.sportsnet.ca. The phone line, 833-311-3232. 1-833-311-3232. And let's start there with a Sportsnet colleague, Frej. Hi, guys. It's Luke Gazik, your fellow Sportsnet employee, long-time listener, first-time caller. As a beneficiary of the waiver wire, I was picked up by Edmonton from Dallas to start my NHL career. And seeing the success Eli told it and has had in Seattle, I was wondering why teams don't use the waiver wire more.

I understand at the beginning of the season, it can be tough with rosters at capacity, but I just see teams that could use an upgrade and some players on waivers can do that for them. So I was wondering why teams don't use it more. Is it just teams overvaluing their players or what? Thanks, guys. Have a great day and continue the good work on the pod cheers luke i think one of the reasons this year is simply that the league

is so tight cap space is at such a premium that you're not making a move unless you absolutely think that you have to do it or you believe you 100 need the player i i think when the cap goes up we're going to see a situation where you see more of these claims get made. But to me, that's it. Jeff, do you see any other particular reason? No, not at all. And considering how many, look at me, just look how many teams are in LTIR.

Look how many teams are right up against it. There's not a lot of room for it. And the uncertainty about next season and what the cap's going to be at, anybody that has term, teams are going to look at and are going to say, if his contract expired this year, maybe we'd put in a claim, but we don't want to touch anybody with term for a player that's on waivers because we just don't know. That's the thing about waivers.

Even with Tolvanen, how many teams was it for each? 22 teams? 22 teams passed on him. Well, it's the thing about waiver. Like even with, even with Tolvanen, how many teams was it for each? 22 teams. 22 teams passed on him. Well, it's amazing considering what he's doing with Seattle. Like he's, he's filling the net. But 22 teams said, we're not sure about this. And right now it's a situation where I don't know too many teams pick someone up on waivers just to take a flyer on them anymore.

Like once upon a time it was like, ah, let's take a chance and see if it works out. Cause we have the flexibility to do that. But now that there isn't that flexibility for each, you're not seeing flyer on them anymore. Like once upon a time, it was like, ah, let's take a chance and see if it works out because we have the flexibility to do that. But now that there isn't that flexibility for each, you're not seeing teams that frivolous. How about that? That frivolous about the waiver wire. There's no longer, I'm going to take a gamble and maybe grab this guy.

You have to know that he can fit in long gone. And we'll see maybe when the cap goes up, it goes back to this, but long gone. Uh, our teams looking at the waiver wire and saying, Oh goody, I can get a free player.

Those days. And they might be temporary are gone for now. That's what I think. Ruben from Stockholm submits with an a plus goaltender, pretty much being an absolute necessity for doing damage in the playoffs, let alone winning the ultimate prize. Why aren't more teams taking swings at goalie prospects with first round draft picks? I don't keep tabs, but to my knowledge, goalies are seldom picked in the top 10, even top 20s with so much potential reward. Why not more risk taking?

The belief has always been that goaltenders develop later than other players that defensemen develop at a certain age forwards develop at a certain age and it takes goaltenders elliot longer to do that so you don't want to sacrifice a first round pick that is changing and we've seen that start to change but by and large that's always been the belief among scouts. Your thoughts on that one? I think your answer is, is really good, Jeff.

Um, because if you take a look at some high goalie picks that were misses, like say for argument's sake, a guy like Brian Finley, who I thought was going to be a really good goalie. It's not like there haven't been some really high overall picks that haven't been complete misses too. I think there's a general feeling of goalies are voodoo. And in the analytics age, I think more and more people have chosen to believe that. Goalies are voodoo and they think their models are better at predicting scorers and skaters than they are goaltenders. I just think that because there's so few people

in the NHL that really know goalies because it's such a specialized thing, I think people are less comfortable drafting them high. Maybe I'm wrong. Someone will reach out to me and tell me if they think I'm nuts. But how many GMs or people with high titles and organizations, Jeff, are goalies? Rutherford is. He was a goalie. Ken Holland. Ken Holland was a goalie. Martin Brodeur is moving up the devil's chain.

He's a goalie, obviously. But how many other goalies really have high positions? Well, I wonder how much of that, though, is just a byproduct of teams only have two goaltenders at a time. That could be another one, too. There's fewer goaltenders in general, and that probably accounts for why. The thing that I've always wondered about,

and maybe I shouldn't, is why so few goaltenders turn into coaches. Managers, yes. Coaches, not so much. There's only been a handful. Yeah, I think this is all part of it. All part of it. I got to tell you something.

Hang on. I do have to tell you something. We'll wrap this question on this one. You mentioned Brian Finley. I ran into him a couple of weeks ago. So our kids were- That's random. I know, but you're going to love where this is going.

So I ran into Brian Finley at Scotiabank Pond, which is a great rink in downtown toronto um and it's the headquarters of the gthl and my kid and his kid were both playing different age groups who were playing at a tournament in scotia pond and his kid plays on the same team as ken reed our colleague from sportsnet his kid who's a goaltender no kidding yes and so my uh one of my uh cousins kids plays on that team too oh really so look at this this is this is all then coming together so had a conversation with him and ken comes up to me and he says me and finley are talking and he comes out to me he goes

brian finley knows everything about triple a minor hockey in ontario ask him any question he knows it as a matter of fact, you know what his nickname is? And I go, what, Kenny? He goes, we call him the Finnsider. Brian Finley knows everything about AAA minor hockey. The Finnsider, Brian Finley.

I forgot to tell you that one. I was like, oh, I got to tell Frege that one. Yeah, the Finnsider, Brian Finley. The Finnsider. The Finnsider, Brian Finley. I love it. I love it. I love it.

Great question. Thank you so much for that one. Ben in Boston. I just had a thought. A lot of teams are now playing with four forwards and maybe five now on the power play. What are the chances of a team trying the opposite on a penalty kill and playing with three defenders

and a forward, or dare i say four defenders and you'll like this one elliot ben from boston submits great job elliot i asked the coach this question i sent him a text this morning and he responded back i'll just read it out to you someone tried that in the u-haul the uhl united hockey league League. No kidding. Yeah, someone tried that in the UHL back in the day, I think. That said, it's dumb. Ideally, on a kill, you have four changes. 30-second shifts for pressure and energy that the best penalty killers use effectively. Plus, if you have your four best D on to start, what happens when you change?

Not a lot of great matchups could happen at the end of the kill plus great kills also have a threat to score so the idea might be right but the execution would be a disaster i like the chaos but not effective so that is your answer from the the unnamed coach great idea but could be an absolute disaster once those four come off the ice. It's an instant recipe for losing a line matchup. I was actually thinking that the reason I would say no is, for example, if a defenseman takes a penalty, then you've got four defensemen on the ice and you've only got one fresh yeah and secondly gives you more room for something to go wrong with your defenseman one getting hurt uh something like that like at least you have 12

forwards right if you lose one or you lose two it's easier to cover if you lose one or two d you're really screwed especially in a big game emory from edmonton we'll finish up with this one today long time fan from edmonton i was wondering if the nhl has ever considered a most improved award like the nba don't understand why they wouldn't who would you guys pick for such an award other than tage thompson lol thanks for everything you do elliot and amal love your work just boy we've got the anti-jeff crowd today these are my favorite people don't like. Don't like it one bit. So I texted someone from the NHL this one as well.

I was actually doing work Sunday morning, Elliot. I wasn't. What I got back was two sentences. Never heard of it. Sounds like a goofy award for the NHL. I kind of like the idea. And by the way, I would submit, I don't know if it would be most improved

or maybe comeback player, like Eric Carlson would be in that conversation. Jake DeBrusque would be in that conversation. Tage Thompson, obviously, would be in that conversation. Elliot hates it, but I'm going to say his name again. He'd win it by a mile. Elliot hates it, but I'm going to say his name again. Daniel Sprong.

Tage Thompson is going to win it by a mile if they had one. Yes. Yes. If they have something like that i agree but i like the idea i'd love to have a most improved player award i think it's a great idea the caveat is though other than tage thompson oh is this like other than connor mcdavid for the heart it's 1987 we're having a draft you go first overall you can take anyone other than gretzky or you can't have a second round pick if you take gretzky pick if you do it yeah absolutely all right that's some good stuff anything uh to wrap

up here um elliot anything top of your mind to kick off the week no i have no mind it's sunday morning my my mind is completely well actually we do have one thing elliot remember like a million years ago when you sat down with nigel dawes of the manheim eagles you know i wasn't gonna say that i wasn't gonna say that because that makes like it feel like almost not doing anything no we just we have a really challenging schedule that's all that that is um so elliot sat down with nigel dawes while we were in germany he plays with the manheim eagles of the del and if you know anything about nigel dawes and you're about to learn more his journey is kind of incredible and you'll hear a lot of this this podcast is dropping on Wednesday what do you recall from this interview like what stands out to you about Nigel Dawes his story about Anthony Stewart

and Dion Phaneuf is uh is really good about them on the bus at the world juniors that's the one that really you know stands out to me the most think about it it's been 20 years since that world junior almost he's still playing it's pretty amazing speaking of anthony stewart congratulations to anthony and chris uh was wonderful to see number 13 and number 24 at the leon center kingston frontenac's uh honoring those two gentlemen Anthony and Chris Stewart both first round NHL picks Anthony played 248 games 238 points with the Frontenacs Chris played 187

games 199 points congratulations to Chris and to our colleague Anthony on this great honor was wonderful to see the visuals we're all proud of those two I think everybody is two outstanding people and listen man congrats was a wonderful night see the visuals. We're all proud of those two. I think everybody is, two outstanding people. And listen, man, congrats.

It was a wonderful night at the Leon Center in Kingston on Saturday. I love Anthony working with him. I mean, he's the gift master. He's just got a hilarious sense of humor. We talked about what it would be like if they filmed our conversations while we watched the game. Anthony would be the star of sports night. If those conversations were funny,

I don't know how I hold it together for some of those intermissions after some of the stuff he said in during the periods. It's crazy. And always want to mention his work with hockey equality, him and his wife, Shantae to the end of thing of what he does as a broadcaster and what he does as a coach and a trainer and how many kids he helps. He is one of the most positive people in the game, period.

Someone that everybody should respect. Taking us out is a Holland-based two-piece indie pop band with dynamic vocals and funky guitar riffs. Tessel dropped their debut EP in 2021 after creating a collection of personal stories recorded during the lockdown. Last week, the guys released their follow-up project, Together, and each track from the EP has its own sound. With IDK, I don't know, here's TESL on 32 Thoughts, the podcast.

Enjoy. I don't know what's it about Cause you just got me up right now You feel like, don't let me down But my heart fell right on the ground We got an iPhone on a rooftop Suddenly talking with a girl about her real love When did you really try that night?

We were at your friend's house On a Friday That I remember us fighting in the hallway What did you really try that night? You kissed the other guy Whatever feels good Whatever comes around I'll come back to you

But do you really mind? Do you mind? Cause I don't pick up my phone watching tv at home while i've waited alone i don't know what's it about cause you just got me up right now You feel like Don't let me down But my heart fell right on the ground