32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Rick Vaive: On Hockey And Life

Episode Date: December 4, 2020

“Catch 22: My Battles, in Hockey and in Life” is a new book by Rick Vaive with Scott Morrison. Rick joins Jeff and Elliotte to talk about his new book, the Birmingham Bulls, playing with Bill Derlago, being the first Leaf to score 50 goals, Harold Ballard as an owner, coaches he enjoyed playing for, […]

Elliot in his tastefully decorated bistro at home, enjoying a cup of coffee. Rick, can you count down from five for me, please? One, two, three, four, five. Elliot, our guest this week on 31 Thoughts, the podcast, is Rick Vive, former three-time 50-goal scorer with the Toronto Maple Leafs, as he documents in his book, Catch-22, My Battles in Hockey and Life,

the untold story of a Toronto Maple Leafs legend. I was really looking forward to this book for a couple of reasons. One, love RV, wonderful guy. We both know him, has a great story. And two, the story is told in association with Scott Morrison, who is, again, one of our favorite people and a dynamite hockey writer. When I say the name Rick Vive, Elliot, what jumps to your mind right away?

I said this in the interview. People will hear it, but I remember the 50th goal like it was yesterday. It was such a big story. First made belief to score 50 in a season. Frank Mihaljevic's record had stood a 48. It stood for so long. It was the pre-social media era obviously it was the early 80s but as a young guy growing up in toronto i just remember what a

big story it was and at the time you could sense the pressure on him just by watching the clips on the evening news on sportsline which was the big highlight show at the time right tuesdays the hebsies of course yeah just the pressure that he felt and i can remember that goal against michael hugh in the blues like it was yesterday so i have to say jeff the best thing about this book was that vive was blunt scotty uh morrison you could tell he really got his uh personality out there he really drew it out of him and there's some stories in this book and again this is referenced in the interview but there's one early about ian turnbull and carl brewer i read it i was like wait what and i had to read it again to make sure that I had thought what I thought he'd said.

And it was a great book. It really was a great, easy, quick read. I'm glad you mentioned that Carl Brewer story because this book was the first time I have ever heard it sort of explain what he was doing on that Maple Leafs team at that time. I mean, you'll recall Carl Brewer, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, just appears on the Maple Leafs team. And we're all left with questions like,

what is he doing here? Why is he doing this? Didn't last very long, but that question always lingered. And this is the first time I've ever really seen it answered. And you're right. Scott Morrison gets a lot out of Vive on this one,

in this book, and he is blunt. At times, you might even feel like Rick is being too hard on himself, but this is a real look in the mirror for Rick Vive. And Elliot, you know me. I'm a stickler for facts, and I'm a stickler for the history and getting it accurate.

There's plenty of hockey books that I'll go back and pick up years later and sort of thumb through and kind of go like, well, I get that, yeah, you're allowed a certain leeway to embellish things, but even this is taking it too far. So the one thing that from the Stickler point of view at Stickler's corner here on this podcast

is that all the history in this is right. And I get to the end of the book and the acknowledgements and Scott references Kevin Shea and Paul Patsku, who are two of the world's preeminent hockey historians, members of the Society for International Hockey Research. And I said, aha. So they've even gone that far to make sure that the history lines up with the memory as well. So this is a book that's going to satisfy a lot of people. Quick final thought before we get to the interview with RV here. Elliot?

It's good. Buy it. It's good. Buy it. There you go. Off to your favorite bookseller, either online or bricks and mortar. This is Rick Vive, author of Catch-22, My Battles in Hockey and Life, on 31 Thoughts, the podcast. Elliot, the book is called Catch-22, My Battles in Hockey and Life.

Rick Vive is our guest who's written this book alongside Scott Morrison. And Rick, first of all, thanks so much for joining us here on 31 Thoughts, the podcast. I'm going to sort of let you know how this interview is going to go so there's no surprises. Elliot's going to ask you a bunch of really intelligent hockey questions. Most of them are going to revolve around the NHL, but I'm going to keep trying to drag you back to the WHA and the Birmingham Bulls. That's going to be the tug, the warp and the weft here of the podcast, so no surprises.

First of all, this is an excellent read. Finished it up late last night, and I sent Skomo a note right away saying that was a tremendous, tremendous book. And a couple of takeaways that I had from it right away. One, I think the star of your story is Joyce. And two, the one thing is, man, you have a real honest look at yourself here. Like this is a real gritty, honest look at yourself in the mirror. How tough was that for you to do?

It really wasn't that tough, Jeff. You know, it was one of those things that it was time. I've been asked to write books many times, but the only guy I would write it with was Scotty. And I didn't think it was the right time. And I'm getting a little older. I had a grandson 15 months ago. And I thought, you know what, I think it's time that people realize that, you know, just because we played in the NHL or

NBA or NFL, whatever the case might be, you know, we're human beings and we have issues in life and hurdles to overcome. And I thought it was a perfect time to get that out there. Well, first of all, that's a huge compliment to Scott Morrison. And we should mention that, that you had decided that the only person that you were going to do a book with was him.

And, uh, we should point that out. You know, when I think of you, Rick, I can still remember sitting in my living room the night against the St. Louis Blues when you scored the 50th goal and became the first Leaf to do it.

I can still picture Builder Lego coming over the line or getting the pass, I guess, coming over the line and going to his backhand and you going to your off wing on the power play. And Mike Liute kind of knowing you were there but just not able to get across in time to stop it like in this day and age that was you know 38 years ago basically in this day and age in the social media era everything's big but that wasn't obviously the social media era but it was a huge story everybody in hockey was watching to see if the maple leaves would get their first 50th goal scorer and rick i can still remember that goal as if it was yesterday and young pre-teen me seeing it well you know i remember too elliot like it was yesterday i mean i just remember billy getting the puck and going across the blue line going over i knew exactly

where he was going and what he was going to do because we had played together for quite some time and uh you know i went to a place an area, where I figured he could get me the puck. And lo and behold, it was a perfect backhand pass right on the tape. And all I had to do was one time pass the loop. He's weaving his way in. Over the box. He scores! Number 15! What a play by Durlago.

And Vive was there to finish it off. And he's going to get the standing ovation. Goal number 50. They get him the puck. What a set up. What a set up by Billy Durlago. Just beautiful. was there to finish it off and he's going to get the standing ovation goal number 50 they get in the box what a set up what a set up by Billy Durlago just beautiful it was a great night kind of one of those things that uh that I didn't even know till I was it was at 45 goals that nobody had ever done it and then somebody told me in the press and I went you know really oh it's actually it's just it's a big relief is what it is.

When I scored that one tonight, a big piano fell off my back that I've been carrying around for a while. But it's a great thrill, and I'm just glad it's over with. That night was a pretty wonderful night. There's two follow-ups I want to ask about this. One is I learned in the book, but the other one is, you know, Rick, it's 38 years later. No one's ever broken your record.

You know, records are meant to be broken, as everybody says, and I'm assuming that it will, especially the way the game is played now where it's more high tempo and a lot more offense and a lot more gifted, skilled, fast players that are, you know, really, really good. So in Toronto, you got Austin Matthews, who, you know, had a shot last year. I felt really bad for him because if it was an injury, okay, that's part of the game. I understand that. But it was a pandemic that took that opportunity away from him. And that's not saying that maybe he would have scored that many goals in the last 12 games,

but I'm pretty sure he would have got 50. And I felt bad for the kid. It would have been kind of cool if he had scored 50 or 54 or 22 years old, the same age I was. But it didn't happen. So yeah, 38 years and counting. And the second thing is, and Jeff mentioned your wife, Joyce, is the real star of the book. I never knew that she made a ring for you for that. And you still have it.

Can you tell us about the ring and what she did because to me that would be very special it's very special to me there's no question and uh you know harold ballard didn't do anything i didn't have anything other than the puck and now i have the stick but uh to remember that by so she decided to go and get a ring made and she went to a jeweler had it made it's beautiful it's all diamonds on top in in a maple leaf and on the side you know it says purse leaf to 50 goals and it's pretty darn nice looking and it's something that i'll cherish forever you know you mentioned and this is someone that i knew we were going to get into and you mentioned his name early and that's builder lego and i really feel that and you look at the history of

skilled players with the tronomy beliefs i don't know that history has done justice to just how good builder lego was i mean you played with him for a number of years i know you've always gone out of your way to mention him when the 50 goals comes up in those three seasons uh that you hit the uh the half century mark of course billy had a wonderful uh junior career with the brandon wheat kings for those that may not have been able to like for some of our younger listeners who may not have been able to watch Builder Lego play, can you describe just how good he was? I know that he didn't bring it consistently and didn't have the longevity and the super seasons that his skill set may have taken him to. But when he was on, Builder Lego was outstanding.

Oh, he absolutely was. And he had very, very good lower body strength, his legs and so on. And he was able to do some things that other people weren't, aside from his skills with his passing and so on. But just to give you an idea, I mean, he was half of the 350 goal seasons. Danny Daou was the other half because billy got injured and they

brought danny in but then when he came back from his injury they put him on left wing and he scored 40 goals as a left winger so you know he could score goals himself i think he had 92 or something in the western league before i believe it was ray ferraro that broke his record. 96. Oh, 96, was it? Yeah. But I mean, that's how good Billy was. Unfortunately, Billy was kind of a carefree guy and a fun-loving guy. And I don't think he took it serious enough, in my mind anyway, like I did or other guys did on a daily basis. like I did or other guys did on a daily basis. And I think that was the only thing that kept Billy from having a hall of

fame career. Well, there's another guy you mentioned in the book that was like that too. And my favorite Boreas Solomon story was one that Gordy told me and Gordy Stelic. And he said that there was one day that Boreas Solomon called in and he says, look, I'm not feeling well for the morning skate, but I'll be there for the game tonight. And they're like, okay. And he shows up for the game and he's got like the outline of ski goggles on his face. And so that's where he

was in the morning. And you tell a story in the book about Solming, I guess one of your coaches, and I can't remember which one it was now, used to have like 1045 meetings at night to make sure everybody got back in in time for curfew. And after the meeting was over, Boreas was like, okay, who's going out with me now? And this was in New York, I guess. So give me some Boreas Salming stuff because he was my favorite player growing up. Oh, man, I'll tell you. First of all, he was a great individual. He was a wonderful person.

I sat right beside him in the dressing room from the time I got traded there. And he helped me a lot when I became captain and so on. But there's so many stories. It's like, I mean, I remember going to his house for a party. He was having a team party with the wives and everybody. And I go there and I happen to walk into the kitchen looking for a beer or something. And I noticed it's got two fridges. And they're, I mean, they're both those great big ones.

I don't know what they're called. So I'm looking and I open the fridge and there's food in one fridge and all kinds of different things. And then I open the other fridge and all there is is bottles of vodka. The entire fridge is just bottles of vodka. And I just looked and went, what the heck is this? Well, I guess, you know, the Swedish guys, they like their vodka cold. And that fridge was pretty heavily stocked. And then, of course, the New York incident.

Yeah, he just said, who wants to go out? And everybody's kind of looking at him. He goes, hey, guys, it's our last time in New York this year. We've got to take advantage of it. And I'm like, whatever. So anyway, he did go out. I don't know what time he got home, but I think it was wee, wee hours of the morning. And that night he went out and had a goal and two assists and was first star of the game.

So, you know, I don't know how the guy did it. He was just an amazing athlete. And he would do things like that. Like you said, I remember that he went skiing. He did it in Vancouver one time too. We were in Vancouver and he went up skiing all afternoon and then came, played the game and played unbelievable. I don't know how he could do it.

The stories that I'm told RV is like, he would do that with regularity. Like he'd go skiing all afternoon, come home, shower up, get to the rink and then go out there. And he was like a norris caliber defenseman yeah and even after burning his legs all afternoon yeah i i don't know how many times he went i mean obviously i didn't keep tabs on what he was doing because i didn't really care because i knew that that night at eight o'clock or seven o'clock when the puck dropped he was going to be there and he was going to be pretty damn good so uh but i i would imagine he probably did it many many times over the course of the time

that he played in toronto could you imagine that today like just the what that would be like if there was a guy in the nhl and like the leucer playing in van in Vancouver and some fan with their cell phone takes a video of Austin Matthews in Whistler skiing on the day of a game like what a fiasco that would be it would be crazy I mean people would be going nuts uh obviously the media would be going crazy over it I'm pretty sure the team would probably discipline them for that too in these times. But back then, there was no social media. There was no people with phones, with cameras, or anything. And the guys could get away with a hell of a lot more back then than they could now.

Do you remember, here as I try to drag you back to the WHA for the first time in this interview, do you remember Eli Gold RV? I do. So Eli, for our listeners, as listen, a famous NASCAR play-by-play voice, Eli was the play-by-play voice of the Birmingham Bulls of the WHA. So when the Toronto Toros relocated and went to Birmingham Bulls of the WHA. So in the Toronto Toros, relocated and went to Birmingham. Eli was the presenter. He was the play-by-play voice.

And I remember talking to him. This is going back, Rick, I think to like 2004 or 2005. And we're having a chat on the radio. And I asked him, what did fans in Birmingham, Alabama cheer the most for? And I was expecting Eli to say, oh, this is WHA, and it's line brawls and backscratching slap shots and wild hair and mustaches on the guys' rock and roll league.

And he said, the one thing that fans loved and they would stand up and cheer were line changes when the play was going on. Because you think about it, in no other sport do you change the players while the play is going on. We take that for granted because we've always grown up saying, oh yeah, it's just a line change. And Eli said, man, when both teams made wholesale line changes, the crowd went crazy because they'd never seen that in any other sport. And that always stuck with me, like to value the things that are unique to the game of hockey. You go to Birmingham and you see the fans and they're cheering for the Birmingham Bulls.

What struck you as different? Because this is, you know, this is a new hockey market. This is virgin hockey market starting from scratch. What struck you about the fans in Birmingham? First of all, they were very loud i mean i mean we drew probably an average of about 10 000 i think a game roughly somewhere in that neighborhood you're right i mean yes they did cheer for line change but of course they didn't know what the heck was going on which was great for us because you made a mistake they didn't know and but no they were the fans they were great and uh they loved the fights uh but they loved bear bryant even more and alabama

football because we had bear bryant night uh one night and uh we filled the building sold every 18 000 people in that building that night because it was Bear Bryant night. So it was pretty different because you weren't the number one thing around there. The fans that did come out, they loved the game and they loved the players and they treated us extremely well. I mean, you had an interesting time there because the year before you got to Birmingham, this team was loaded up with sluggers, right? Like this team had the who's who of tough guys in the WHA. Glenn Sonmore, the coach? Yes, he was. Yeah. So Glenn Sonmore is the coach.

Brofe was the assistant. All right. John Brofe, one of the toughest coaches, and that's a name that comes up often in your book as the assistant. So they sort of transition to more skill and we all know about the baby bulls did you feel that the rest of the league was trying to get you guys back for what you did the season before when you weren't even there because i think you put up like 250 penalty minutes it's like an 18 year old fighting like men 25 to 30 rv yeah 248 to be exact and uh not that anyone's counting not that anyone's and that's probably how many punches i got uh you know what everybody else kind of loaded up i guess it was kind of payback time and unfortunately dave hansom was there and

that was pretty much it then there was only so so much Dave could do to be our tough guy. And, you know, couldn't be on the ice all the time. So it's funny because I remember Brofe calling me in because he was our head coach that year. And he said, listen, he said, you know, we only have Dave and he can't do it all. He said, Rick, I'm just going to tell you. He said, and I know you're not going to want to hear this, but if you don't stick up for yourself, they're going to run you out of the league. And I said, oh, okay. And of course, I'd always been like that.

Anyway, I grew up with that in my mind that, you know, no one, I wasn't going gonna let anybody push me around or intimidate me in any way shape or form and I went out and I did it and uh boy oh boy I got beat up a lot but uh four or five years later it really paid off because uh I don't know whether they got tired of breaking their knuckles on my helmet or what I don't know but but i got a lot more room because of it you know i love the stories in your book about your roommates and not keith crowder because you and keith crowder obviously got along really well so those stories are really boring but the the great stories that you have about paul henderson and pat rigiggins and i'm a slob so i love the pat riggins stuff but the paul henderson and pat riggins stories rick those were great

well paul i i can't i don't know if he's a great roommate i'm not because you know he lasted one night and then uh because one of the guys from pei because i scored my first goal that night in the first game a road game that we had and uh they kept calling and calling and calling and kept paul up and i came in i don't know two in the morning and he wasn't very happy so i think he must have went to the coach or the manager and said i i need a new roommate and then of course yeah i was with keith crowder and we we got along great and then he went back to peterborough because he wasn't getting much ice time and they put pat riggan with me and oh boy oh boy i tell you that was

and i'm not mr housekeeper or anything but i had to become that because uh pat was the worst so the story you told was you actually washed his sheets for him because his girlfriend was coming down and you were like there's no way she should be forced to sleep in those things like that is a true chivalrous gentleman rick i have to tell you i wouldn't do that for my roommate you did it i wore rubber gloves though i felt that way i mean his you know girlfriend was coming to town and i knew that he hadn't washed them for probably about three months and i said no that is not gonna happen so i put the rubber gloves on took them all went down threw them in the thing didn't wash them dried them and put them back on the bed and then he came home he was angry at me and i i

said trust me you're gonna thank me pat and uh, you know, he did later because of what I did. You had, through your career, a number of coaches, a number of headline coaches. One has a real historical footnote to it, and that's Mike Nikoluk, who was the first ever assistant coach with Fred Shiro of the Philadelphia Flyers. That's a historical marker there for Nikoluk. Which coach do you think, Rick, got the most out of Rick Vive, and why? I think obviously it was Mike. Mike was a pretty quiet guy. He didn't come in.

He didn't scream and yell. He did his preparations, came in, would give his speech. But Mike was a very nice man, and he would call players in once in a while and I know he called me in quite a few times and just just to chat about everything like how are things going you know how's your family and everything okay is there anything I can do and and I thought you know what this is a great man a real nice man that cares about us. And plus, you know, he just gave me the freedom because I remember him coming in and saying, Rick, we can't afford to have you in the box anymore. We need you on the ice to score goals.

And I said, oh, boy, thank you very much. That was probably the best words I ever heard from a coach in my career. Well, I still fought a little bit, but not as much as I had. You know what? He just let me go and play. And, you know, not to say that the other coaches didn't get a lot out of me. I know Brofe was a guy that I admired and played hard for. But Mike, for some reason, just, I don't know, he gave me that feeling

that I wanted to go out and do the best I could every single night you wrote something in the book when you talked about those changes in coaching that has really interested me throughout the years and that is that when teams make a coaching change you go from one extreme to the other like you talked about Mike Nikolak quiet guys you said called players in and then Joe Crozier who was a yeller and sort of you know back and forth between that thing and that's one thing that I think it took I think not just hockey but all sports too long to realize that you don't have to go from one extreme to the other and that to me was one thing that you said in your book

that really stood out for me like if you look at the succession or whatever of the coaches i had especially like in toronto for starters you know you got floyd smith he is pretty quiet floyd didn't say a whole lot then joe crozier who yelled and screamed all the time mike nick luck who was very quiet and did the things that i talked about. And then you got Dan Maloney and then John Brophy. So two of those in a row, two guys that yelled and screamed. And, you know, I go to Chicago, I got Bob Murdoch, very quiet. Then they bring in Mike Keenan, who's the total opposite.

You're right. It happened all the time. And every time there was a coaching change, I think the GMs thought that, okay, I got to go the other direction. I got to get someone opposite of what the guy we just fired. I never understood that, but you're right. It's like it's taken so long for them to figure out that that doesn't have to happen. Let's pick up on John Brophy there for a couple of moments. And in the book, you talk about, you know, the Val james story and you know that game where they they called him up and

brof was you know showing how to handle someone in in front of the net essentially assaulting uh valid james and i can remember i can remember someone telling me a story from um about brophy when he coached you guys and how he would, this was at training camp, just get on Al Iafredi. Thought Al was too chubby. And this is, I guess, when you guys had two-a-day practices. But in between, Brophy wouldn't let Iafredi take off any of his equipment except for his skates and got him on the bike and just sort of wore him down, wore him down, wore him. And I think Iafredi left the team. I think it was Jeff Jackson that had to go and actually get him to bring him back to camp.

A, do you remember how he treated Iafredi? And who are some of the guys that you think Brophy was really tough on? Well, I think he was tough on everybody, but he was a lot tougher on some of the guys. And, you know, I think John, I think he saw things in certain individuals that but that was his way I guess he he thought that this was my way of getting the most out of a guy whereas like a guy like Al Iafrate or Russ Cortnall that wasn't the way to get the best out of those guys you had to take a different approach but he didn't understand that and uh yeah he got on al pretty good that camp he he was a little overweight coming in and he made him ride the bike between sessions and everything else but i was still the fastest guy on the ice you know and i'm thinking i wanted to go to Brofe and say, Brofe, leave the kid alone. He's still the fastest guy out here.

But Brofe was like that. I think that was what happened between him and Russ Cortnall and the infamous bad trade for Cordick from Montreal ended up happening a lot because Brofe thought that that was how they get the best out of everybody. And he didn't realize that it wasn't. You know, it's interesting because earlier on, we talked about Builder Lego and that undervalued skill that he had. You know, I look at someone like Ally Afraidy, to your point, could skate like the wind,

fastest skater out there, had good size, as we saw in various skills competitions, a super hard shots. Like when you look at all the things that go into making a hockey player, I look at Ali Afraidi and I say, how was this guy, Rick, not better than what we saw? Because we would see the glimpses of it. But you're just waiting for him to put all of it together consistently. The guy had superstar potential.

There's no question. And Al would be the first to admit it. I've talked to him many times. He was too young. He wasn't ready for the National Hockey League and I think I'm obviously I mentioned it in the book that during that time there was a lot of guys brought in when they shouldn't have been and that was one of the things that you know because Harold Ballard was cheap he wouldn't hire a general manager that knew what he was doing and made the right moves. And lo and behold, you got Gary Nyland, Jimmy Benning, Boimstruck, Ally Frady.

You can even throw Russ Cortnall in there. These are guys that were brought in a lot earlier than they should have been. They should have probably gone back to junior for a couple of years grew got a little stronger matured a little bit and i'll be the first guy to tell you that he should have went back to belleville and played two more years of junior because he said he would have been a better defenseman sooner than he that he finally became but john getting on him as much as hard as he did probably didn't help either i was surprised to read that you didn't have a lot of back and forth with with ballard you know there's the one story you tell where you get cut from the canada cup team and he's furious like what was your craziest ballard

moment again this is a long time ago people don't understand how crazy owners used to be. They're not like this that much anymore. There's very few Jerry Jones. They stand out. But Ballard in this day and age would be unbelievable. What was your craziest Ballard moment? Oh, boy. Well, there was a lot of them.

I mean, he was in the room pretty much every day because Guy Kinnear had to rub his legs, our trainer, because of his circulation problems with the diabetes. He would do that. Then he would go in and shower when we were on the ice. But this particular day, practice ended a little earlier. We were walking into the room and somebody had put the baby powder in one of the towel or in the hair dryer so that you know when the guys come off they when they're blow drying her hair the baby powder would go everywhere well unfortunately the guy that grabbed the hair dryer when we just walked back into the room was harold ballard and uh baby powder was all over him and he actually thought it was quite funny he laughed and we were all like standing there going oh my god what's gonna happen and and he started laughing he was oh that's pretty good who thought of that and of course no one was gonna own up to it but because they probably would have been traded the the next day but I never really had any conversations with Harold.

That's the thing. I remember he called me up to his office slash home one time in the gardens. And first I walked in and I was like looking around. And there wasn't one piece of the wall that was not covered with newspaper clippings. And, of course, it was all about the Leafs and mostly when, obviously when Harold was there. And, you know, we sat down, I can't remember what we discussed that day, but it was probably about two and a half, three minutes long. And then that was it. And that was probably the longest I ever talked to Harold during the

seven years that I spent in Toronto. When you got to Toronto, coming over in that trade probably the longest I ever talked to Harold during the seven years that I spent in Toronto. When you got to Toronto, coming over from that trade with the Vancouver Canucks, when you got there, it was chaotic. That was a team in turmoil, a team feuding with its general manager, a team feuding with its owner. I mean, you and Billy Dee must have got there and said, well, what did we just sign up for here? These are crazy times for the Toronto Maple Leafs. I could probably think of some words that would be better than the ones you said, but, but, um, we knew that, you know, first of all, we got traded for Tiger, who was one of Daryl's buddies. And then, of course, we get there and we hear all this stuff.

So we were prepared kind of for what was going on. And I was lucky in that I was a guy that was able to kind of put all that aside and not think about it that much and not worry about it that much because it was out of my control and it was something that i kind of just kind of got through and and didn't because i didn't let it bother me that much i mean it was it was pretty chaotic at times and then of course uh lanny had been traded just before we had gotten there or just after Christmas, I believe it was, uh, and then tiger and, uh,

uh, everything that happened, but you know what? The funny thing was, and I hear this story of what, why it was happening because punch didn't want Mike Palmatier and Daryl to take part in the, uh,

whatever it was called showdown or showdown. Yeah. The, uh, intermission hockey the intermission hockey night intermission feature yeah and uh because someone had got hurt the year before and missed a month of their season or something and i said well you know i don't know i mean if i it was me i would listen to my general manager regardless of whether it's punch him lack or who

it is and i would probably do exactly what he wanted me to do and not take part, but they did. And then the feud started and both sides kind of fueled it and punch trading Lanny and then Daryl tearing the sea off his sweater and so on. I mean, it just, it was back and forth. And then, you know, finally Daryl demanded a trade, but would only go to a couple of teams because he was the only guy that had a, probably the only guy in the league that had a no trade clause. Well, I got to tell you, you told one story that I'd never heard before. And growing up in Toronto and how crazy the team was at that time and all the stories that got out, you had one story there that I'd never heard before. And I couldn't

believe it when i heard it like of all the stories you tell in the book it's the one that sticks out to me the most which is interesting there's a lot of good stories there but there's a morning skate and this was the time when carl brewer was with the leafs and ian turnbull was beating Carl Brewer in the skate and he moved the net so Brewer couldn't avoid it and he crashed into it and got hurt so bad there was skin on the goal post and I'm thinking how dysfunctional does a team have to be for something like that to happen? Well, very dysfunctional. Yeah. One of the things that happened was Carl came back and of course he had no hair at the time and shaved his head, whatever was left each day. And I think all the guys, especially the older guys thought that he was a spy for punch and whether or not he was, I don't know. And I never about it never thought about it that much you know I was young I was 20 years

old when I got traded there but yeah on that particular day I don't know what had happened something happened and the players thought that Carl had something to do with it and I can't remember exactly what it was but they were pissed off at him and yeah we're doing a little drill where you had to do laps. And Ian just, he knew Carl was right behind him and they were leaning into, to kind of go around the net. He pulled the post and bam, it was like 40 stitches. I think it took the, closed the cut on Carl's head. And there was a little piece of skin on the goal post.

We're skating by and looking at it going, oh my God. Like, you know what? I mean, it was like a circus. Harold Ballard was a ringleader and that's kind of how things went in Toronto back then. It was a wild time. And listen, you document so much of this in your book and you're very open and honest about your drinking uh you're very open and honest about uh your anxiety uh you're open and honest about things like your fear of flying do you ever look back rick and you

and think to yourself how did i get through that With all those things going on in your life, how you got through playing pro hockey? I wonder that myself sometimes, Jeff. I'll be honest with it. But first of all, they didn't know what was going on, any of the doctors I saw. And the only thing I could do to alleviate that was alcohol, unfortunately. And sometimes it took a

lot more than other times and especially on airplanes that's for damn sure there is times where I sit and reflect and wonder you know what if I had a got the proper care and medication that I needed for the anxiety and I didn't drink when I was like 21 years old on how much better could I have been or could I have been better I sit and reflect sometimes on that and uh you know I wonder like you know how good maybe I could have been and or if I could have been better I don't know for sure but yes I do sit and wonder uh sometimes uh if that could have happened i read all the stuff in the book and you know the thing you say at the beginning of the interview is that you weren't

ready right to write this until recently i was heartened to hear that rick because you know you we've talked a lot about the good days you had in the book the 50 goals the the time in toronto and then there's a lot of talk about later in the book, the 50 goals, the time in Toronto. And then there's a lot of talk about later in the book about, you know, some of the struggles you had in Chicago and Buffalo, the injuries, as Jeff mentioned, the anxiety. And, you know, hearing you say that at the beginning of the interview that you were finally ready to write, it says to me, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, that you're just in a really positive place. You have a grandchild now. And I

know a lot of people having a grandchild is something, it's almost like the circle of life. It brings you a piece. It's your job in life now to spoil that kid rotten. And I, and I hope you do. And, uh, but like that says to me that you're, you're in a really good place now and you're at peace with the good, the bad, everything that happened in your career. I know that you're you're in a really good place now and you're at peace with the good the bad everything that happened in your career i know that you're a big part of the maple leaf alumni now like am i right that you're at peace with everything that occurred you know i think i've gotten to a place in my life where i'm comfortable i'm happy i have a grandson and And I think you're right. It's, I just got to a point where, Hey, you know, uh, I'm happy. Uh, everything's going great. And, uh, I think now's the time to get down and, and write the book. You know, I have to tell you, Rick, that to me is the most powerful lesson

of the book. And that is that 2020 has been a hard year for a lot of people for a lot of very obvious reasons. And it's the year where you write and talk about finding peace. And I, I hope that this interview, which has got a lot of great stories. I also hope that people take away from it that in difficult times we can find our way and i think that's a great lesson that your very honest book can give to people and i hope you understand that you know it has been a very difficult year obviously and it's not over yet uh because it's going to go into the next year right it is what it is and you know i mean, I think if people read the book, they'll realize what I've overcome for many, many, many years. And this is nothing different. Someone threw a wrench into our life for a while, and it's up to us to stay strong and get through it. It's like everything else I had to do in my life. And writing the book was kind of the thing that I wanted to do. And then,

but of course, you know, then the pandemic hit in, uh, in March, we started in October. And, uh,

you know, so I was planning on having to go across the country and doing, uh, signings and everything. And that's not going to happen. Uh, which is maybe a blessing is that I don't have to get on an airplane.

But, you know, hey, we can get through this and maybe the book will help some people realize that you can get through these hurdles. You know, as Elliot mentions, Rick, and like this book is full of great hockey stories, as Elliot just points out correctly. There's some wonderful ones, some thoughtful ones, some funny ones. But that's not what I take away from it. The thing that I take away from this book is the idea that when something's broken, you don't throw it out, you try to fix it. And that's why I think at the end, you know, when I finished last night I said Joyce is the star of this talk about your wife a little bit talk to us about Joyce I mean the first thing is we met in great Canton and this June will be our 40th anniversary being married and she kind of I don't even know how to put it I mean mean, she kept everything together, I guess, throughout my career, after my career. I mean, don't forget, she's had to move so many times. She was left behind and had to sell the house, look after kids.

And I was gone. I had to go. I had to go to the next team and I had to start playing there. And sometimes I got, I think Chicago, I got traded the day after Christmas to Buffalo and didn't see her who we had a two-year-old and she was pregnant. Didn't see them until February 4th. She's a strong woman and, uh, just kind of kept everything together over the years. This is an outstanding person. Uh, and you have a wonderful family, and as you mentioned, a new grandchild, and that's always great.

Listen, this has been a lot of fun. Elliot, anything else from you before we bid? Rick, good day. I think we covered it. This is great. Rick, thanks so much for this. It is a wonderful read. We encourage everyone to pick it up.

The book is called Catch 22, My Battles in Hockey and Life alongside Scott Morrison. Our guest has been Rick Vive. Rick, thanks so much for spending perhaps more time than you bargained for when you first started talking to me and Elliot, but we really appreciate it. I don't mind, guys.

Jeff, Elliot, thank you very much. I appreciate it. And I look forward to hopefully getting back to hockey and seeing you guys on TV again, as I do pretty much every day. From your lips to God's ears. Yeah. Amen, Rick. Thanks so much for this, pal.

Be well. All right. My pleasure. Really enjoyed that talk with Rick Vibe, and I'm sure he gave us more time than he originally planned. I sat down with him for like an hour last week, Elliot, and got some great stories, and I still come away with it thinking that Joyce is a star and I'm glad how often he talks about his son, Justin, and his other son, Jeff, as well.

This is a really, at times, difficult read, fun read at other times, interesting read, informative read. There's a whole lot of different elements that go into this book. There's just not one note that Rick Vive plays. Look, in 2020, which has been a very difficult year on most of us, the entire world, Jeff, we're talking a lot about people's mental health. And the thing that I got from reading the book is that Rick Vive was in a place where he was able to do this book. And you mentioned it in the beginning. He was probably harder on himself than a lot of people would be or that he needed to be.

But when you can do that, that says to me you're in a good place. And to me, that's the most important thing about the book is that Rick Vive is in a good enough place in a very difficult year on most people that he can say these things about himself. And that's the thing I enjoyed most about it. Cause I said, here is a person who was content in their own skin. And that really is life's ultimate goal. We should all be so lucky. Um,

as Elliot said off the top as well by this book, catch 22, my battles in hockey and life, uh, Rick five with Scott Morris. And we thank Rick for his time this week on 31 Thoughts, the podcast. More podcasts coming up next week. Stick with us. Hopefully there'll be some news to pass along your way as well. And we have some interviews on the horizon too. Not to be too vague about it, but they haven't all been pinned down yet. So I'll continue to sort of grade this a little bit.

On behalf of the crew here, our producer, Emil Delic and Elliot Friedman, Jeff Merrick signing off. Thanks as always for joining us on 31 Thoughts, the podcast. I can't say I'm sorry One more time Let me take a break From this day of life And say goodbye

I'm gone, oh you turned to love me I guess there's no harm now Hope you won't be lonely