32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Scheifele Suspension

Episode Date: June 4, 2021

Mark Scheifele has been suspended four games for his hit on Jake Evans in game 1 of the Canadiens-Jets series. Jeff and Elliotte break down the wide variety of opinions (00:01) they’ve heard the last 24-hours from around the hockey world regarding the hit, what was said in the phone hearing, and if some players […]

Hold on everybody, I just finished my hit in Nashville and now I've got to light my candles I can deal with that I'm a big boy Okay, so once again this is a combination cast, or maybe Elliot we should call it Frankencast because it's done in a couple

of pieces in a couple of different environments and then stitched together by our producer Amal Delic. Oh, and by the way, that's a snazzy intro right there. Great job, Delic. I was going to say, we should comment that we had no idea that Amal was sampling our pre-podcast commentary to music. Dude, I'm telling you, he has so much saved.

If he wanted to, he could sewer both of our careers. No, this is what I think it is well yes I mean there's no question about that we could get burned very badly but almost like we got to do these early because I got to stay up all night editing and I want to make sure it sounds good now I know that's total BS and all he's doing is seeing what music he can play us to em will tell me that sometimes when he hears us talking, he hears certain pieces of music under phrases,

which I really liked the sound of. I can appreciate that. That was good stuff. All right. When you first played that for me, I laughed my head off. I thought it was great. That was good.

Okay. A couple of things. Serious time. Okay. Yeah. Mark Shifley, four game suspension, the hit on Jake Evans,

the charge, the injury, no history, but he's gone for four games. Your initial thought on all of this, because it became, listen, as we all know, it became a firestorm on Twitter. It dominated conversation. Everybody had an opinion on it. No one sat on the fence fence no one saw any gray area how did you see it i have to say the suspension was much more stiff and stern than i was expecting it's a very very i had two i thought maybe three it's a very very stiff and stern suspension This is an absolute punishment. You know, when the NHL player safety tweeted out that it was going to be a hearing and not in person, so I tweet out so everybody understands that that means a maximum five games.

People were angry. They're like, what a joke, not serious enough. I completely disagree. I think a four-game suspension in the playoffs, especially for a guy who had no history, even though Evans was injured, I think that is a very, very stiff suspension. Like if people say that they want to see the Department of Player Safety hand out harsh, harsh penalties, that to me is a harsh, harsh penalty. I thought it might be three. Okay, we got four. Like, it's contentious. Jeff, you know, my sense

is there's three groups of people. There's the people who say, throw the book at him, even though he has no history. I think that's a brutal hit. The player was badly hurt. You reap what you sow. The second group, and I think there's a lot of people in this group, they're former players or they're, you know, guys who played recently or people who've been around the game recently. And their opinion is 10 to 20, 30 years ago, that play was okay. It's not okay anymore. My feelings on that have changed. We've got to get that out of the game. And the third group is he's trying to prevent a goal and Jake Evans should be looking. That's three groups of people that I think exist out there. Do you think I'm missing anyone?

No. Well, there might be one more group that sees this as two very specific teachable moments. And I don't even know if one is teachable. And I want to get to that in a couple of seconds here. But you can look at this and say there's actually two mistakes here. One, the hit.

And two, the person putting himself in a position to get rocked. And I know this is very distasteful for some people to hear. No, you know what? I'm going to cut you off there because I've been thinking about this all day. And I think I have a way to properly phrase this okay shoot because I think there's a big difference between blaming the victim and saying could something have been done to avoid this and the best answer I got today was from a former NHL player who now coaches kids. And he said, I can think that Mark Scheifele was wrong here, but I can also say to the young kids I coach

that when you come out from behind the net in that situation, you should have your head up. He said both things can be true. And this is a guy who played, I think retired around 2010 he said when i played that was okay and i had no problem with that being okay now i don't think it's okay because the game is too fast and anybody with the lack of interference and i know people complain there's always interference there's much less but with the speed of the, and I know people complain there's always interference, there's much less. But with the speed of the players and the equipment they wear,

he said, we can't have that anymore. And he said, I feel very strongly that I can say that Mark Scheifele's hit needs to be taken out of the game, but Jake Evans also has to understand that when he comes around the net, he's got to have his head up. That's where I'm at on this one. That is exactly my position. But I want to take it one step further, and we'll probably go back and forth

on various parts of this initial situation. In playoffs, we talk a lot about players making sacrifices. We talk a lot about players blocking shots. We talk a lot about players blocking shots. We talk about tired hockey players. We talk about putting your body in harm's way in a consistent basis. There's a part of me that wonders, and there's only one person that knows the answer to this, Elliot. But part of me wonders if Jake Evans knows all that.

Because I think that he does. you don't get to the nhl without knowing that like you don't come from around the net like that without knowing the potential for danger exists i refuse to believe that players don't know that i was born at night but i wasn't born last night i wonder if and only jake Evans can answer this. I wonder if at that moment, Jake Evans looked at this and said, I'm going to score this goal. And if I get hit and I might get freight trained here, so be it. That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make because it's the playoffs and I want this goal. You know know i think that's a very interesting way of looking at it and maybe that's true i can't answer that i don't know either i don't i don't

wonder about it i just wonder like it sounds like he avoided the most serious injury here like i was surprised to hear he didn't go to the hospital yeah and you know trust Dr. Mulder from the Montreal Canadiens. He's been around at this for a long time. He's very highly respected by the organization and the players. So I believe in his judgment. I trust his judgment. I was shocked to hear they didn't go to the hospital, but it sounds like the good news is, is that evans has a concussion and i take those very seriously he avoided definitely the worst case scenario that we were all worried about but it's funny you say that jeff because i had people who told me almost the exact 180 that their question was you know jake evans is still a guy who's relatively new to the National Hockey League.

He did get hit last year by Jake Muzzin, but he's still new to the NHL. And what they wondered is that as one player, this is a Hall of Famer, said this to me, sometimes he thinks that young players who come up through hockey now don't understand how much the game changes in the playoffs. And, you know, he said to me that that play from Mark Shifley, he said, there's no way that happens in the regular season. And it kind of goes to a point that him and I agree on that the biggest change in the playoffs is from the players. I know people hammer the refereeing, but I think some of the same things we complain about about refereeing happen in the regular season as they do in the playoffs.

I think in the playoffs, the biggest change is the players. They're meaner. They're nastier. They will do things that they don't do in the regular season. They pay attention more to detail. They concentrate more. And this Hall of Famer, he said to me, that never happens in the regular season. There is no way Mark Scheifele comes from 200 feet away to do that to Jake Evans in the regular season. They say it is a playoff play.

Like, again, this person said to me, he's's in the camp of that's okay 30 years ago that's not okay now there has to be a severe penalty for it but also he said the same thing he would say if his kids play they're young they play he said he's going to show them the video to say this play is wrong but when you're coming out from behind the net like that you have to have your head up and i will say the vast majority of people i spoke to had that opinion that this is a play we need to get out because it's too dangerous but you still have to be aware and as hitting decreases especially during the regular season he said it's incumbent on players to recognize like especially veterans to teach younger players

this is the playoffs now this is different and things are going to happen that don't happen in the regular season here's why i bring it up about you know know, did Evans just say, you know, screw it. This is like a blocked shot. I'm putting myself in harm's way. I'm putting myself in a risky position. I remember talking once with Mark Letestu. And I asked Letestu, this is when there was a rash of hitting from behind penalties in the NHL. And a lot of it was players are flashing the numbers of the boards and getting hit. And it's really dangerous.

And it still is. And you cringe when you see it when it goes wrong. It's awful. It's like it's pit of your stomach when you see it. And I said, why do you guys do that? And he said, what do you mean? What do we do what? And I said, why do you turn your numbers at the boards?

Like whenever you have the puck and someone's around, you turn your number at the boards. And he started laughing and he goes, it's easy. He said, one of two things is going to happen. One, we're going to protect the puck and keep possession or two. We're going to draw a penalty.

It's that simple. And I said, you're willing to sacrifice like a broken neck to protect the puck or draw a penalty? And he said, yeah, like very matter of fact, like, yeah, of course, that's what we do. And that goes to your point about playoffs and how the how players change. It's not just the person who hits, but it's the person also who puts themselves in a dangerous position. And I don't know whether Jake Evans saw Torres on Williams. I don't know if Evans ever saw Armstrong on Coyvue. I don't know whether Jake Evans saw Torres on Williams. I don't know if

Evans ever saw Armstrong on Coy. I don't know. But I don't think you get to the NHL without knowing where the danger areas are. No matter what era of hockey, even if it's the latest era of hockey you grow up in, you know that when you're coming around the net, even if you have a blind spot, there's a chance that someone's going to be there for a hit, maybe dropping down from the blue line. Now, you don't think someone's screaming from 180 feet away that's going to run right into you. But you know that there's a chance that you're really going to get hit there. And I kind of look at this because I don't know, but I just wonder if players look at those situations and say, this is my version of blocking a shot. It's an interesting point, Jeff.

This is my version of putting myself in harm's way because we need this goal in game one. Like, we don't look at it as a sacrifice from the player. Again, I don't know. Only Jake Evans knows. Only Jake Evans knows. Only Jake Evans knows. Only Jake Evans knows. Now, I do believe that we are talking about a different outcome,

both in terms of what happens to Evans and what kind of suspension there might or might not be if Shifley plays the puck or tries to. I believe from what I hear in the hearing, Shifley was told, we would have liked to have seen you try to play the puck. He changes the angle of his body once he realizes he has no play and instead of stopping,

just carries right through. Basically what happens, it sounds like as Shifley says, I don't think I had the ability to do that in time and player safety, if you watch the video, makes it clear by making that decision, you decided you were going to hit him, and then you're responsible for whatever outcome there is. But there's no doubt in my mind, because I believe Shifley was told this in the hearing,

if he makes more of an effort to play the puck, even if he collides with Evans, the suspension is not four games. It becomes more incidental than deliberate. A couple more things about this. Tavares was injured. Complete fluke play. He goes out on a stretcher. Evans goes out on a stretcher.

After that happens, in the game 3 of the Islanders series, Brandon Carlo, it was really scary looking at him. No attempt to injure by Cal Clutterbuck. It was just that he checked him into the boards. Unfortunately, his head went into the boards. That was a scary thing to watch as Carlos struggled to get to his feet. But it doesn't factor in suspensions, or at least it shouldn't. But I do wonder if the NHL looks at this and says,

that's two serious injuries we've seen in a short period of time. This is not good for us. And how much that becomes a factor in everything. In what sense? In how games are called or how suspensions are meted out? You sit here and you say, well, at the end of the season, there was Wilson Panarin, right? Yeah. And then you have the scary situation with Tavares.

And then you have this scary situation with Tavares. And then you have this scary situation with Evans. I think you can't help but look at it and say, we can't have this every week. Should it be a factor in suspensions? Probably not. Is there a human element to it where it does? Sometimes I wonder. Well, you know the phrase I'm going to reach for here. Is there a human element to it where it does? Sometimes I wonder.

Well, you know the phrase I'm going to reach for here. Is the game getting too fast for it to be safe? Well, that's why the people who I know felt very strongly that they had to punish Shifley for this. It was all about that. It was all about speed. You you know 20 or 30 years ago you wouldn't have been able to get that much of a head of steam up to hit him you'd be interfered with along the way someone would get 100 somebody would have interfered with you and also the equipment wasn't the same i always i've mentioned this before dave ell, his solution always was if you want to get rid of injuries,

get people playing in the equipment that everybody played with in the 80s because then you felt it as much as the person you were hitting. But the people who felt very strongly that this had to make an example of were all about you have to warn players that speed is the enemy as much as they are. You can't allow that. The problem is the NHL puts the accent of their game on speed. Yeah. Everything is fastest game on ice, fastest game on ice.

And it's gone from being a contact sport to a collision sport where it is guys hitting like billiard balls. When's the last time you saw someone rub out another player it doesn't happen they collide there's no more get angle get body and rub out it's collision like born and i talked about this on hockey central like the difference and we might be you know parsing it too much but there still is a difference between body checking and hitting. Hitting is a real tactic. Body checking is separating player from puck to force a change of possession. Hitting is a tactic. And I don't know where that changed.

I don't know where the game changed from physical contact is body checks to physical contact is hits. But somewhere along the way, hitting became a tactic and not just to change possession, but to punish. And we all kind of went, okay, because we didn't know about the effects. And all we did was, you know, show them on highlights with goofy music behind it, with guys going, Bowango, keep your head up. But now here we are.

And it's gotten, at times, as you mentioned, even accidentally, like the Corey Perry-John Tavares that you mentioned. That's an accident, but you talk to anyone who's on the ice at that, look how fast Perry gets up enough speed to get past Tavares and cause that injury. And he's not even considered a burner in the NHL at all.

Like it is remarkably fast. The last thing I just want to say on this topic is I don't know if I've ever heard so many passionate arguments on behalf of those three positions I mentioned. The people who felt throw the book at him the people who felt it was okay 20 years ago but it's no longer okay we have to stop it and the people who felt he did nothing wrong like there was no arguing with any of them they all agreed their position and nobody's mind was changing i want to have a quick conversation about officiating in

general sure and i don't want to go through quick conversation about officiating in general. Sure. And I don't want to go through call by call and, oh, they blow it, and this is game management versus call the rule book. We've had all of that this season as well. Does it not feel as if referees are kind of out to prove a point right now with all these penalties in overtime? I've wondered about that because the triple overtime game where Winnipeg knocked out Edmonton, I was one of the people that night on the show

who said that I thought they let way too much go. And you look at some of the calls since then, Carolina, Nashville, Game 6. There were one on each team. The Colorado-Vegas one, I didn't like that one at all, but there was a penalty in overtime. The one on Ransomton?

Yeah, I didn't like that call at all. I hate those. I hate those at any time. I hate those. That stick checking. Is that a penalty? I hate that call. I hate that call. And then Tampa-Carolina Game 3. Is that a penalty? I hate that call. I hate that call.

And then Tampa Carolina game three, like I thought the penalty on Hamilton in regulation, I didn't like it. And then they got the makeup in overtime and they scored on it, which I thought was probably fair to Carolina. But I've wondered too, are they saying, okay. You don't think we'll do okay, you guys are whining about no penalties?

Here's your penalties. And now we hate those even more. There's no win. I'm with you. It just seems like it's more of a thing in these playoffs. We'll see where it goes. Before you get to your driveway,

and maybe you're already there after that lengthy Shafley Evans conversation, I want to get a thought on each of the series so far. We'll start with that Montreal-Winnipeg. As we record this, we've only seen the one game, and for those of you that thought that Montreal was going to be coasting on

fumes for game one and that was going to be the tap-in for the Winnipeg Jets. Not so fast. Montreal up 1-0 in the series. Your thoughts? First of all, I look at game seven of that Toronto-Montreal series, and I saw one team that believed it was going to win and one team that hoped it was going to win.

And Montreal was the team that believed it was going to win and one team that hoped it was going to win and Montreal was the team that believed it was going to win by the time they got there the Canadians were like we're winning this series they they can't beat us we're going to win and you know I thought they would be spent for game one but no belief to me is such an amazing thing it can change so quickly but i i see a montreal team there that believes it's going to win they believe in their goalie they believe in their top 4d they have just enough firepower and they can check you know i remember bob gainey once you know bob gainey wouldn't give a lot away but but I think when he fired Guy Carboneau, I had a chance to talk to him about it,

and he said to me, we can't check, and I believe that you have to be able to check to be a good NHL team. And this Montreal team, they can check. You know, like the D had one point against Toronto. Deneau didn't do much offensively against Toronto, but they checked Toronto into submission. And I was thinking about that the other night,

and I just think that in the playoffs, you have to know how to do that, and they can do it. And the offensive era of Caulfield, Kotkaniemi, and Suzuki, you can see it coming. These are all confident players who believe they can score. And I don't know if they can win it all this year, but they're on a ride right now where they say, we believe in our formula.

We can do the things that effort requires, like competing and checking, and we can ride this. Now, I look at Winnipeg right now, Shifley suspended, DeMello got hurt, Stasny, they seem confident he's going to be able to play, but it's Dubois time. They need him now. He has not been enough of a difference maker this year. Okay. It's a screwed up year. He got traded everything. Now it's Pierre-Luc Dubois time. They need him to be a difference maker because this Montreal team,

they believe. By the way, I wanted to say one more thing about Paul Maurice. I know he got ripped today for saying. You need to do everything you can to stop a goal from being scored. Getting smart of the game. It was a heavy, heavy hit for sure, but it was clean. His player is getting destroyed. He's standing up for his player. I disagree with him,

but I've got no problem with him. And I understand what he's doing a hundred times out of a hundred. That is a coach blocking a shot right there. Of course, Palm racing into that. Any coach is going to do that. You're not going to fire your guy under the bus. I completely understand that.

That's him getting, getting the way of the shot. Vegas and Colorado, here is my question to you. And after two games, Colorado was up 2-0, although those two periods yesterday, Vegas was very much in control, and that leads me to this question. When we talk about Colorado, it's McKinnon,

it's Landis Gog, it's Rantanen, it's Kael McCarr, etc. How comfortable are you putting grubauer in that mix of key avalanche players that we should talk about i think that's a great question because first of all when the vets and nominees came out this week. I think he was the one guy who kind of got the seriously to it that people understood why Flurry was there and people understood why Vasilevsky was there. But Grubauer, despite the fact his numbers were

really good, the Hellebuck fans were like, what? And the Soros fans were like, what? And, you know, he's shown in the playoffs, and especially shown in game number two, why he deserved to be there. I think part of the problem is, is that if you look at the Avalanche's future, you look at the deal coming up for McKinnon,

you look at the deal coming up for McKinnon, you look at the deal coming up for Landeskog, you look at the deal coming up for Makar, you kind of automatically assume that there's just no way that Grubauer is going to be able to get his market value, so he'll be gone, right? So I think that's part of the problem there, Jeff, is that people just assume, oh, well,

they're going to have to sacrifice group hours so they can keep everybody else. And maybe that contributes to the fact that he doesn't get that same recognition. How'd you see the first two games? I mean, the first game was, it was like the Globetrotters, man. Yeah. The second game, I thought Vegas played really well and, you know, they got the power play in overtime. That was a very even game. And Vegas deserved to win.

Grubauer saved Colorado in that game. In the first 10 minutes, I thought it was going to be another 10-0 game, really. Yep. And then Vegas found their legs and got going. And, you know, they lost in overtime. I mean, do you seeado losing four games out of five no i don't but i always i mean my whole life i've always been told you're you're never in trouble until you lose at home and vegas hasn't lost at home yet now i don't and that is you

sound like the golden knights because that's what they were saying after game number three of course but given the way that colorado was playing and the confidence with which they're playing and the way their blue line is working and all this by the way we should mention is all without nasm kadri yes and the way grubauer is playing right now they're the team you look at and you say okay everybody with all due respect tampa and at times tampa looks like the Globetrotters, as you mentioned. That's the team. Colorado's the team. They look so good right now. We'll see what the rest of the playoffs bring.

Caudry's second hearing, I believe, is Friday. Right. And it would just be wild if we had a situation where his suspension didn't end until the semifinal because the avalanche just go through go right through the uh the vegas golden knights like they did st louis haven't lost the game yet they hit the perfect record six and oh so far boston and the islanders yep interesting game on thursday and i don't know what you do with this, but you asked Kelly Rudy about this on television afterwards. What do you say when the guy that kept you in the game

also cost you the game? Because Varlamov was great, but that goal was, let's be blunt, bad. It's a bad goal. Well, he's also got a weird thing going where he's given up goals early in all four of his starts, right? Yeah. Like three of them, I think it's within three minutes.

The one tonight was in six minutes, but I think it was a second or third shot. It's weird. He's had trouble getting into games. Like always, I defer to Kelly on goaltender calls, right? You know, Kelly played it for 16 years and I didn't. But I would think about going to Sorokin. You mentioned that. You know, the one thing that Kelly pointed out right away was how Varlamov had his right skate on the outside of the right post, which got him away from his angle,

which got him away from playing that properly. Like, I don't know if that's enough to say, well, hey, sorry, guy, we're going to, you know, as Barry Trotz would say, the other Russian, you know, we know for sure we're going to have a Russian in that. I just don't know what to do with it because just bluntly, that can't go in.

I think, Jeff, like if you take a look at carolina game three what was the one card that rod brindamore could pull it was the goalie one card that he can pull oh peter marazic and it's not necessarily a shot against nadelkovic he was yeah he was excellent but the other thing too is like, you've lost two guys. You don't have Nita Ryder. You don't have Trocek and Fogle gets hurt in game three. But you know, so you don't have, it's not like you can jolt your lineup with a change down the lineup. The only way you can kind of jolt them is say, we're going to switch goalies.

And that's what I wonder if Trotz looks at and says, look, we're down 2-1. Sorokin saved us once when we were in trouble against Pittsburgh. Do we give ourselves the jolt by doing that here? You know, I got to say too, Rask, I was worried by what I saw from Rask in game number two, just in terms of his body. Yeah.

But he gets the extra day of rest. He was really good. Yeah. You know, maybe I'm not worried anymore. I don gets the extra day of rest. He was really good. Yeah. You know, maybe I'm not worried anymore. I don't know. We'll see. But I might just do it to give my team the jolt and also not have Sorokin sit too long. That's fair.

You got two number ones, essentially. Tampa Carolina is fun. And here's why. No matter what point of the game it might be, and that's a big overtime win sebastian ajo with the heroics 3-2 is the final series still tampa leads two to one the great thing about this series is at any minute you could see either side throw the puck around again we're saying globetrotters but why not throw the puck around globetrotter style. Like the two to one goal, the Braden point goal was a thing of beauty.

That one in Colorado, they should have a power play competition. It's just spectacular. It just looks so nice. It's just gorgeous. And, you know, Tampa does it. Carolina, like that, was a Tara Vinen with the tip pass in the neutral zone to Sebastian Ajo for the first of two on the night, including the OT winner.

Just, you're never that far away from seeing a play that makes you go like, oh man, that's awesome. That's what's great about this series right now. You know, the hockey's been really good. It's been excellent. The quality of play this year in the playoffs has been really good. Are you surprised considering what everybody's been through? Yes and no. I gotta say, it's a good question Jeff because in the playoffs I don't pay a lot of attention to other things I really try to be dialed in and you know we're on every night people expect a lot from us and you know you always try and

deliver but I was reading about the Celtics today because, you know, Danny Ainge stepped down and Brad Stevens is going to move from coach to manager. And it was a big story. So I was curious about it. And, you know, Ainge talked about the last year and how long it seemed. And he was running out of steam and he was beginning to think, okay, I'm going to make a change. And he's not the only one. A lot of people are like this. And I got the impression reading about the Celtics that, you know, they felt there that once their players realized they couldn't beat the Nets, they were like, okay, you know, it's,

it's just time to go home. Now, I don't know if that's right or that's wrong, but the impression was there. And I think that happened in the NHL in the regular season this year, where once some teams realized they were out, it's like, I can't wait until this is over. Just stay healthy. Don't want to get injured. Just get this over with. And so a couple of things. So in the playoffs, I wondered like Montreal, Toronto,

when Montreal got down three to one, would they fold and just say, it's time to go home? And no, they didn't. They absolutely didn't. And I'm not surprised because you want to win the Stanley Cup and it's what you're there for. But this is such an unusual and difficult year. And we are seeing examples of it, apparently, in the NBA and in the NHL,

where, you know, I think that once you get down, like the Carolina tonight had every reason to lose that game. They were up 2-0. They did the worst thing you can do with Tampa. They gave them power plays. The lightning scored. They get that call on Hamilton. They kill it off and they win in overtime and they're three guys down. Okay. They had every excuse to say, we're done here. And they didn't. And great credit to them. I think the level of competition of the players this year has, especially in the playoffs,

maybe I shouldn't be surprised, but I'm obviously impressed and very respectful. It's been remarkable. You mentioned the play's been great. And it's going to sound weird because we're dealing with sports. You just eloquently talked about it how no one's quitting in a season where we're giving everyone as many passes as possible take care of yourself do what you need if you feel you don't want to do this anymore don't do this

anymore either as an individual or collectively no one's licking the envelope and mailing this in. No. No one's saying we're done. It's been real good. Yep. All right. With that, we'll kick it off. And now you'll hear the very well-produced part of the podcast. Welcome to 31 Thoughts to Podcast presented by the GMC Sierra AT4.

CarCast is over. Thanks for joining us once again on 31 Thoughts, the podcast. Always great to have you aboard. We will get to the Toronto Maple Leafs here in a couple of moments and their collapse against the Montreal Canadiens and what happened and what will happen next in Leafland. In the meantime, Elliot, a couple of bits of news. One, congratulations, Buffalo Sabres. Winners of the draft lottery, they will select first overall, Owen Power, University of Michigan, looks to be the guy, but things happen and probably will happen between now and the draft.

Thoughts on what's happening with the Sabres right now? So at the end of all this, they get a little bit of good news. They win the NHL lottery, but maybe the bigger story right now for the immediate future of the buffalo sabres is what's happening with jack eichel well i'll tell you this like one of the things that was really interesting to me was i should say is they also talked about coaches and they talked about european coaches that says to me they've interviewed ricard gronborg previous podcast guest hasn't gronberg been interviewed by a couple of different teams or haven't some teams expressed interest in Gronborg before? Yes. As a matter of fact, I think Buffalo was one of them

when they hired Ralph Krueger. Okay. But the Eichel thing, Kevin Adams confirmed that they still are not comfortable with Eichel's process. He confirmed that the 12-week period is over, which was ended last Sunday, May 30th, and they're going to meet with Eichel to talk about the next steps. Does it not interest you, Jeff, that that meeting appears to be after the draft lottery is set?

In what way? Well, now they know where everybody stands. Now they know where everybody stands and they hold the first overall draft pick, which allows them certain luxuries. Is that what you're getting at here? Well, I just think that before, when you were talking about teams

who are maybe out of the playoffs and you were talking about a first rounder, you knew it only conceptually, right? Right. Now you know where everybody's actually picking. Okay. So I see what you're getting at. So if you're doing a deal with, let's just say for sake of argument, the New Jersey Devils,

you know that you're looking at pick number four. Or if you're doing something with the Los Angeles Kings, you're looking at pick number eight. That's what you're getting at. Yes. That makes sense. Okay, so that is interesting, but I don't think that anybody thought that if anything's going to happen

with Jack Eichel, it would happen quickly or the conversations would happen quickly. Did you? To me, one of the interesting things about this is the Sabres have spoken to the league about what their rights are, and I do think that Eichel and his agents have spoken to the league about what their rights are. And I do think that Eichel and his agents have spoken to the players association about what their rights are. My personal opinion is that whatever Eichel decides to do, it's going to be in conjunction

with the next team that acquires them. Okay. So what you're getting at, this is almost like a Mulder Scully thing. Wait a minute. Are you trying to say that so what you're saying is essentially any team that's making a move for a jack eichel has to be cool with his decision on how to handle this injury namely the surgery yes i do and like i'll tell you that in the aftermath of some of the stuff that we've reported on Eichel, I've had some teams reach out to me to say, is there anything else you know that hasn't been written? And the answer is not really. I think I put everything out there that I knew about. out so i think these teams are doing their research i think they really want to understand what they're dealing with here and it wouldn't surprise me at all if the sabers answer to this

potentially is to punt the situation into another team i mean given your conversations with teams around the nhl those that would be interested in Jack Eichel, because this is the type of procedure that I would imagine Buffalo is not in the minority on. Teams that are skeptical or at least cautious about. How much do you think this would limit the field for any type of Jack Eichel trade? Because again, to reiterate what you just said, any team getting him has to be cool with how he handles this injury. Yes.

How much does that limit the field? Do you think like if you're, I'm just gonna say for sake of argument, because it could be a fit, the New York Rangers. Do we know how the New York Rangers feel about this? Ditto for the los angeles kings any team that would be interested st louis blues because this isn't done in the nhl

do you have any type of idea about whether these teams are cool with it or not i don't yet i think they're uncertain i think they're trying to do their research what i suspect that all these teams are doing is a asking their doctors what they think and b asking their doctors to find out who's suggesting this and why it could work and how it could work all these players now like when when Tavares got hurt, one of the things we were all reporting was any return is going to be in conjunction with Toronto's medical team and Tavares' own medical team, right?

Because everybody knows now that it's not just the team, it's also the player has their own care. Connor McDavid coming back from his knee injury, the Oilers were not sure about that path, but they put their faith in McDavid's people. Sidney Crosby coming back from his concussions did some things with a chiropractor that a lot of medical professionals didn't like.

And I was very heavily criticized by some doctors for doing a story on that procedure. And my reaction was, look, if Sidney Crosby believes in this, I don't care if you like it or not. It's a story. So I think what they're trying to do is get the lay of the land to figure out what exactly is going on here. I think the other thing is,

I think these teams are also asking, if Eichel gets traded, is he willing to bend to a new team because he wants to make a good impression with the new team? Like if the doctors say, no, we think you can do this, will Eichel say, well, it's a new team, so maybe I'll try to start the relationship on a different footing like it's clear that there's a clear lack of trust between eichel and the sabers right now there's a lot of different variables here but that's why i believe jeff that the most likely

outcome is yeah whoever acquires him plays a significant role in helping decide what the next steps are. Like, I wonder if this could happen. And again, this is me talking. Nobody's telling me this. I wonder if this is a deal that happens sooner rather than later for that reason. Well, and I wonder too, then considering like someone's going to take risk here. Yes. We know this is headed towards a deal.

Someone is taking risk. Either the Buffalo Sabres, if they wait this thing out, are taking risk or the team that acquires Jack Eichel is taking risk. Does that then in your estimation shrink the amount of assets you have to pay for Jack Eichel? Because now there's risk associated here. Sure, you're getting Jack Eichel because now there's risk associated here. Sure, you're getting Jack Eichel, but there's a huge but attached to this now. I think that that's all part of the negotiation. I do. To me, the price for Eichel is determined by how many people are in it, right? Always. Yeah, you just need two to bid against each other for sure. I think in theory, the question you're asking there is a good one.

The other thing I'm wondering here is, do the Sabres allow teams to talk to Eichel about this? Like, will they open it up to say, well, first of all, they'll all probably tamper with him anyway. Sir. I know. In the NHL, sir. They'll all probably tamper with him anyway,

but are the Sabres going to say to teams, okay, you have permission to talk to him about what he's talking about here? Right. Really quick, do you have a quick thought, or maybe we just note it and move on about the Buffalo Sabres winning the draft lottery? We talk about teams that need a shot in the arm

after challenging seasons. Is there a bigger one than Buffalo right now? Do you think they take power? You know your prospects. He seems to be consensus guy and, you know, playing, you know, where he's playing right now. Like he seems to be the guy, obviously. But again, there are some teams. I know that there's a lot of teams that, well, that U18 opened up a lot of eyes as well.

Like I think players like Brant clark moved themselves up like there's a few map in years like even though just got dinged to the world championships there's a few but the one that's sort of been stemmed astern here on on most of the charts is his own power okay so i agree with you it sounds to me like he's the guy the one thing that makes me crazy is when people say the Sabres already have a lot of defensemen. Like, who cares? Oh my God. Draft the best player and deal with it all.

I've always told you that the example that I always come back to is the Chris Pronger example at his draft year when he spoke to San Jose and they said, well, you know what?

We're not going to draft you. We've already got, you know, Rathji and Ragnarsson. We don't need another big defenseman. Like, he just passed up one of the best defensemen of the generation. Just take the best player.

Just don't, don't galaxy brain this. Someone said to me, you have to stop saying galaxy brain. You, that's your new favorite saying, stop saying the phrase galaxy brain, but that would be galaxy brain.

Yes. So far on the podcast, you failed at that. And congratulations by the way, to, to Seattle. Oh yeah. We'll end up selecting a second overall. So there'll be big winners in this one as well. More. And we should get, to Seattle. Oh, yeah. We'll end up selecting second overall.

So there'll be big winners in this one as well. More, and we should get, well, we will. We'll get Sam Cosentino here, our lead draft analyst at Sportsnet, on to talk about some of the players and what this all means in advance of the NHL draft. Names that we're hearing out there for teams that are eliminated. How much right now should we be paying attention to the st louis blues elliott i think a lot because i think they've got a general manager who's not

afraid we talked about this a couple of weeks ago i i think that you know he'll be a guy that will be looking to do some things you know another name i'm starting to hear a bit more is Vince Dunn. Dunn was injured, unable to play during the playoffs. I think there were points during the season where Dunn was available. And I think there were times where people thought something was going to happen. But I do believe the Blues are looking at that right now. And I think some teams are interested. So that's one name I'd want to look at but i just

think that doug armstrong is generally a pretty fearless guy and he will be unafraid to do what he thinks is right yeah i'm i'm pretty sure that at various points to vince dunn himself thought that he was you know on the on the verge of being traded like you know home home for christmas uh where are you going after the break, Vince? I'm not sure. I'm probably pretty sure that at various points, Vince Dunn felt like this about himself. So that should really come. And we've talked about it before.

Every time trades get mentioned with St. Louis, his name seems to be popping up. So we shouldn't be too surprised at that. Do you have a quick thought on Rick Tockett having a second interview with the Rangers? Well, I think he's going to be a candidate in a few places he's had a second interview with the rangers a second interview interview with seattle and a second interview with columbus i i think it just shows that tocket has a great reputation people really respect him people really like him he's

going to end up somewhere and i'm curious to see what happens with galant when team canada gets back to um it seems like talk it and galant are very serious in new york you know we'll see where that goes but talk it has a hugely positive reputation around the league you know he's he's a guy a lot of people have a lot of time for it's true and uh now we should park some time here to talk about the maple leaves a lot has been said a lot has been written we've had a couple of days to digest and analyze what's happened, hear from the players, hear from Dubas, hear from Shanahan. As we record this, what are your thoughts on what we saw in the series, what we heard from the players and management, and what's next? This question gives me a chance now to put my feet up for about 15 minutes.

Oh boy. What are you going to do? Go cook a burger? A veggie burger? Make yourself a Shirley Temple? Quick little protein shake in the middle of the afternoon fridge. Here we go.

So let's, okay, let's take it one by one here. In your estimation, what happened in the series? First of all, congrats, Montreal. Look, they won fair and square. No, none of this. Oh, 100%. A marvelous job. Marvelous job by everybody on that team in that organization.

Full credit to the Habs. And we'll talk about Montreal when they go out this way but they haven't gone out toronto has what happened in that series up three to one so number one they got off to two terrible starts in games five and six game five down three nothing game six down two nothing and game six they could have been down 10 nothing if it wasn't for Campbell. Did you not think that it was the same in game seven as well? Well, where normally- Game seven, I'll get to it.

I think game seven is its own different story. I'll get to game seven. Don't interrupt me, young man. No, game seven is a different story. Game five down three nothing, fought back, didn't get out of a shift in overtime. I really thought Toronto was going to win the series in game five overtime when we got there.

But they had the giveaway, and they gave it away to the two worst players to give it away to, Suzuki and Caulfield, who made it work. Game six, they were bad. They fought back to tie it. Probably should have won in overtime and got beat. Game seven, five minutes into that game,

I didn't think there was any chance they were going to win. They were beaten that night before they hit the ice with 20-20 hindsight. Game seven, that was Montreal knowing it was going to win and Toronto praying it was going to find a way. And when they talk about killer instinct, Shanahan, Keefe Dubas,

that's the game to me, they're talking about. I don't think they're talking about game five, even though they started poorly. I don't think there is're talking about game five, even though they started poorly. I don't think there is much talking about game six, even though they started poorly. I think they're really talking about game seven because they were never in it. They were never in it.

They, you could tell they thought they were going to lose and Montreal thought that they were going to win. And thought that they were going to win and here's the thing I've said this many times I think you bet on talent I understand why they're keeping the big four or at least talking like they're going to I think trading Marner is crazy show me a trade you're going to win for Marner and again people bring up okay Tampa won playoff series before they got embarrassed by Columbus Washington won playoff series before they finally broke through yes they did but to me it's almost like it doesn't matter they were still were

considered failures who would never win and you know I think you bet on talent. That's the way I'm always going to be. Now, what I think is going to happen, I think this, I think they are going to identify the kind of player that they need. And whether it's a goalie or a defenseman, I suspect it will be a goalie or a D. They already have a lot of forwards. Maybe it's a forward and they are going to target that player or those players and they are going to say what do we have to do to get this player in how can we make it work i got a call this morning we're taping this on thursday i got a call this morning from someone who told me that dubas was talking about some things around the deadline that he couldn't get done because it just didn't work. Well, now you've got your 10%

summer cushion and everybody's going to be talking about making moves. And I said, what are we talking about here? And the guy goes to me, I'm not doing all of your work for you. You got to do work here. But what that says to me is that Dubas was looking at some things that he said I can't do right now, and he's going to revisit them, I guess. So what I think we're talking about here

is them identifying who they need and how they get them and i don't necessarily believe they're going to split up their big four i do think they're going to try to come back with it but that doesn't mean that dubas can't find another bomb to drop i think he's going to try to do something where he brings in a significant person who alters you know what i'm thinking about but i don't know who that guy is is like when montreal traded for wah or colorado traded for wah they demanded mike keenan the deal right like who's that prick who's a very popular teammate who changes your attitude around you and he was a good player who's that person who's that goalie or who's that d or who's that forward that changes you in that way who's a good player they're not just going to bring in the uh he's good in the room hey they don't flood the dressing player they're not just going to bring in the uh he's good in the

room hey they don't flood the dressing room guy they're not going to bring in that dude um that's one thing we know about the maple leaves i think it's going to be a significant swing that they're going to try to make on that kind of a player that would be free agent or that would be trade could be either or that could be offer sheet oh i gotta get it out there i just think i have to check and see what toronto's offer sheets by the way those threshold It could be either. Or that could be offer sheet. Oh, I got to get it out there. I just think I have to check and see what Toronto's offer sheet. By the way, those thresholds are going to be low this year. It's going to be interesting.

Yeah, I know. I will say this, that I do think they're going to look for the best possible player of what they don't have and how they bring them in. of what they don't have and how they bring them in. So the question then becomes, how are you going to fit said player in if you're bringing back Zach Hyman? Well, I think that's one of the first questions is he's going to have a decision to make. I think people look at the lineup and say, okay, they're not going to bring back Frederick Anderson

and that money is going to go to Zach Hyman. Is it that simple for each? No, because I think that, I think Hyman's going to go to Zach Hyman. Is it that simple, Frege? No, because I think that, I think Hyman's going to have to make a decision. And that is, how much is he willing to leave on the table? There's going to be teams out there that want him, and they know they're going to have to

significantly outbid Toronto. I don't profess to be in Hyman's head. Like, we all know the story. I think he wants to be here. Of course. No, I think it just comes down to how he feels. They can't outbid some of the other teams out there that are going to want

them. How frisky are they in the goalie market? Do you think they've kicked tires before? Yeah. Again, I think it comes down to, are they looking for a guy to play 30 games? Are they looking for a guy to challenge for the number one job?

See, to me, it feels like, and again, I've made this point before. I generally don't make up my mind about a goaltender until I see a hundred games and each shooter has about two or three looks at a goalie and you start to get a book written about a goalie's tendencies. But the regular season performance, the playoff performance where as much as Carey Price dominated the headlines in net, Jack Campbell was really good here. Like I wonder if the Maple Leafs think they have a legit number one guy, the one that they were hoping for when they made the Clifford deal. And I think we talked about this on the podcast, where Clifford was the headline of the deal.

They're bringing in some toughness. You wondered if in the back of their minds, they said, didn't work in Dallas, wasn't going to work behind quick in LA, but we may have someone who can play at least some significant time for us, if not challenge for a number one spot. So I don't know. I don't know if they're out there looking for a number one or just someone to play, as you mentioned, 30 games for the team. Look, I think for the most part this year, he did a really great job. You know, the world's a funny place. It's not often if you make a mistake, it's when or how you make it.

And I think it's going to come down to how Dubas views that Game 7 goal. Along the score, scores! Brendan Gallagher has his first of the series, and Montreal strikes first in Game 7. And like you see so often, it's an offensive zone turnover right at the offensive blue line here minors thinking offense got a chance what a great stick there by stall to turn it back the other way now a little bit late reacting was bagosian you can see how he backed off was it a bad play that just happened to happen there or was it a bad play and it happened there and i can't trust it won't

happen there again to me that's what that comes down to so that's the gallagher goal yeah you're talking about the one nothing goal so it's the marner turnover at the haves blue line and it's a goal that every goaltender will tell you you got to have and it's through the leg so psychologically the puck went through you not around you we know how that affects goaltenders yeah it's funny you mentioned that because jack campbell in his zoom call without prompting about the goal at all brought it up early the biggest takeaway is just you know to win in the playoffs i gotta be dialed every game and um i guess like one goal doesn't necessarily make or break a series but just trying to uh you know figure out how to eliminate that from my game and um you know just getting better but overall i think uh it was a great learning lesson um but i know i can be a

lot better and i will be like you can tell he's hanging on to that goal now mind you it's just a couple of days later so you understand you know why it's still fresh in his memory. But, you know, even a couple of days later, he just completely unprompted brings up that goal. The Gallagher goal. Early, it's haunting him. Yeah. And I understand that. You know, you're going to have to think about that all summer.

And the other thing too is, is that like I've been there, Jeff, I know what it's like to think about that all summer and the other thing too is is that like i've been there jeff i know what it's like to make a big mistake on a big stage you don't think about it for yourself it's not about you if it's just you in a vacuum sure whatever but you think about you look around at all your teammates and you think about holy smokes like i feel i let those guys down. And they probably don't think that. They're probably looking at their own mistakes that they made or other things that they didn't do. If you have any kind of care of teammates, which Jack Campbell clearly does, that's all you think about. You don't think about how it affects you. You think

about how it affects the people around you. And that's why it stings. Like the mistakes that only affect me, those aren't the ones I care about. I can deal with it. I'm a big boy. I deal with the stuff where I make my coworkers look bad or my family is affected. Those are the ones that got you. It's not that he feels bad for himself he's dying inside because he says god damn it that's first goal of game seven i totally understand i don't worry about that i just the only thing i worry about is by the time next season starts is he gonna be still obsessing about that or are we gonna be moving in another direction but i don't worry about that right now by the way i you in another direction but i don't worry about that

right now by the way i you didn't have one thing i was when i was rambling there marner that's what i want to get here too yeah like do you see a trade where they can win with him i'm taking out seth jones because i don't think he's signing here long term i don't know what's available like there are players that you would trade for mitch marner i don't know they're available now this is a podcast where we make up stuff don't limit yourself by who might be available let's just say if they actually wanted to trade marner okay okay you're not just waiting to see who's available you're going to other teams and you're saying we consider doing this how do you feel about that so who are those guys uh young defenseman

charlie mcavoy okay do you think you could get mcavoy for murder i don't think so no i agree with you on that i don't think i don't think boston does that okay but you know what jeff i think that's a great example like that's the magnitude of what we're talking about here and as much as toronto may want to that, there's no indication that anyone, I'm just using boss. I'm not saying there's any conversation, but just use it as part of the conversation. There's no indication that any of these teams

would want to do that just to bring in Mark. But I think at least that you're making a good, like Mac, at least you're making a sensible argument. Like I was on, I was on Radio Day in Nashville. I do Nashville every Thursday. And they said that some of the Predators hockey fans are saying, let's offer Ryan Ellison and Victor Arvidsson for Marner. And no offense to Ellison and Arvidsson,

but Ellison is 30 and Arvidsson is close to 30. That's not happening. Yeah. Like I said, David Poyle should be arrested if he gets that deal done. But the thing about the Marner situation let's flip it because for the first time in mitch marner's career now he did hear it during his contract negotiations like there was a groundswell of hey you're the local boy just sign with the maple leafs this is what you've dreamed about, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But it seems as if he's the pinata right now for Maple Leafs fans. And, you know, it's interesting. I was talking to someone this morning who brought up the point that, you know, if he would have taken less to stay in Toronto and sold the, I'm taking less to keep this team together because I want to be here, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. You wonder how much of a softer landing

Mitch Marner gets in a situation like this, but he didn't. And like full credit to Marner, his camp, his agent, everybody. That's what the group is supposed to do. Maximize your compensation, et cetera. And we all get that. But with that comes expectation. Yep.

And if you can't sell the way my guy took less to try to make all of this work we just went for the number and you got it that's great but now there's expectation on you and now in this situation there is failure and you can deal with failure one of two ways you can either grow or you can wilt you can swing or you can hang take your pick one of one of two things is going to happen here with mitch marner i know that his zoom call things didn't go great and the feedback wasn't great and how it was received wasn't great and probably didn't do himself favors but the nerves are outside the skin on marner right now yeah i'm not suggesting that he's going to do this but would it surprise you if marner said

i don't know if i want to do this here because for the first time really he's going to do this, but would it surprise you if Marner said, I don't know if I want to do this year? Because for the first time, he's getting it from everywhere, Elliot, all over. I think this is a very, very good conversation you've brought up. As a matter of fact, if I was Anthony Stewart and Justin Bourne, I would say, why don't you bring up questions this good when you do Hockey Central? You bring out the best in me, Elliot. By the way, everyone, that's Carney for Elliot patting himself on the back right there. Oh, no, that's so lame.

I give you credit. I honestly think that that is a great question because I have thought about this. So I'm very careful about the way i deal with social media during the playoffs i really try to shut myself down and just concentrate because you know you're working every day and a lot's expected but you know it's it's tough to miss a lot of the reaction to what marner said the other day like people are like he, he doesn't sound like he really understands how poorly he played or he's blaming everything else.

I don't see that. What I see is a guy who feels like he's under siege. Yep. They lose. And the next day a story comes out that he selfishly refused to move anywhere on the power play. Okay. And, you know, he calls that a lie yeah uh it's a

complete lie so that's like i said i've deleted all social so i haven't seen anything said or anything but my agent called me and told me about that and i don't know who put that story out there but it's i mean just people trying to get their name out there and trying to make themselves i guess noticeable and it's uh it's unfortunate but that's the world we live in nowadays of people on social media trying to you know make uh make someone else look bad and i mean i play any role in the power play i wouldn't pay play power play i don't care i just everyone wants to win here so it's a complete lie and it sucks that stuff like that's being said but not surprised either at the same time so it's a complete lie though and i think everyone sees that try and play any role i can to help this team win and i was trying to do it all year long and can't really

do anything about it just let that story do whatever it wants and who cares you know then comes a thing that he went golfing yesterday on tuesday afternoon and it gets thrown all over the internet and he's like that's not true so you're under seeds like a you saw what he looked like during the series he was cracking because he was so disappointed at the way it was going and he was frightened it's the same thing we talked about Campbell he's seeing how he's letting down his teammates he feels that anyway and he's cracking and then comes all this and you know I do want to talk about that story a little bit more in a second, but so he's lashing out. He's looking at this and he's saying, everybody's out to get me. Like, don't they see how much I

care about this? And don't they see how much I was struggling because I could feel it slipping away and I felt responsible. So when Marner says what he says, I don't look at that as a guy who's trying to avoid blame. I see a guy who's lashing out because he feels he's getting picked apart. He's being defiant. He's trying to defend himself. To me, talk is cheap. It's all about how he comes back next year. The one thing I completely agree with you about

jeff is that all the contract stuff it warps people's minds they forget about it until they remember it right and they remember it at this time so yes i think i think he has to stop worrying about endorsement deals i think he has to stop worrying about endorsement deals. I think he has to stop worrying about what people think. Like there comes a phase in your life where you've got to be kind of a prick. You have to be nice to people and you have to treat people well, but you have to say, you know what? I can only care about what a limited amount of people think. And I have to shut the rest of the world

out. I have to cut down the amount of voices. Mitch Marner's at that point. No more social media, no more worrying about endorsements. Just go out there and play. Play. And also, you have to simply say, you have to get that mentality of, I'm but firm i can be a nice person i can treat people really well he does a lot of private charitable stuff and he's very good at it but when he's on the ice and when the game starts i will kill you to win this game and that's the mentality you have to have and i just think he i think he has to commit himself to that mentality and I think he'll be fine. Now I want to talk about the story a little bit. Okay.

So the story came out and I don't have any problem with the report. I think that if you, someone you trust tells you that and you believe it, I've been in those shoes as a reporter before. If it's someone you trust, you go with it. I reached out to Marner that day. It came out. I got callback from an intermediary, denied it. Obviously he denied it. So again, if you're the reporter and you believe your source, you believe your source. You have to deal with the follow, but you believe your source. And I don't like when reporters trash other reporters for whatever reason. I think too often someone comes

out with a story and other reporters just dump on that story because we can be jealous of each other sometime. I don't like that. The thing that I looked at that report weirdly about was the timing like basically the maple leaves have just lost and it's a crushing defeat and this story is getting out if i ran the organization i would be outraged at that like i just don't like it when someone gets fired or somebody gets traded and all these things just start coming out and you trash someone on their way out so i really try to avoid that and sometimes it's a really delicate dance because, you know, you're trying to explain why something may have happened. And I always try to be careful, Jeff, about how I frame it. Because the day I get fired or the day I quit,

I don't want people coming out and saying, these were all the terrible things Elliot Friedman did when he was here. Because I think if you've got a problem, say it to my face. Just so you know, I won't be the anonymous source on any of it. I'll just come out and say it. You'll just say it. I look at that story and I'm like, somebody gave up that story. Somebody was the source for that story on the day that they lose. And the organization is in its most pain.

Like you heard Shanahan. The first thing he did was he apologized to the fans. Before I take questions, I just want to make a few points. First off, I want to talk directly to our fans. We understand the disappointment that everybody feels year in, year out. The support that we get from you is so vitally important and so appreciated by us and the team in every year. This year in particular, with the restrictions that are going on around the world, but specifically here in Ontario and Toronto.

We really wanted to be a beacon of happiness for you. We want to do that for you every year, but certainly this year was even more important for the players. So starting with me and Kyle Dubas, our management staff, our coaching staff, and all of our players, we take responsibility for disappointing you and letting you down and not getting the job done. He spent like three, four minutes talking to the fans to kick off his media avail. He apologized to the fans.

Like, they feel the same thing the fans do. They're like, we were so good this year, and we didn't have to play Tampa. We didn't have to play Boston. Like they are thinking the exact same thing that you are and they lost. So they're in pain. And someone is the source for that. Like if I was Dubas, I would be furious over that because now you've really created a problem because now marner's thinking that somebody in the organization is out to get me now i will say this and again this is why i understand you know the report

if i was given that information i would be like okay i've got to try to confirm this. And if this is a big deal, you've got to work on it. But I also try to look at it from other points of view, like Batman, who benefits? Somebody gave that out to protect themselves. Marner is a core cornerstone player. And he's going to be wondering who in this organization is out to get me. That's a problem.

Yeah. The last thing. No, I just went on for like 20 minutes. So no, no, no, this is no, but that's true of, that's true of anybody in a organization, but for someone like Mitch Marner, I don't know that right now for his good that he should be looking to try to find who the enemy is. his good that he should be looking to try to find who the enemy is. Like to me, if you're the Maple Leafs and you're committed to Mitch Marner on this team,

Mitch Marner taking the next step in his career, Mitch Marner figuring out how to be a consistent playoff performer. If I'm the Maple Leafs organization, all I want to do is remove all the noise around Marner, all of it, and just have him focus on being a hockey player. So I'm with you. If I'm Dupes,

I'm anyone in this organization, I'm livid. I'm livid about this. Because don't you think it is goal number one for Toronto and Marner to get rid of all the sounds around him. Yes. Make no mistake about it. Going back to when he played for the Vaughn Kings.

Okay. In the GTHL, there's always been noise around Marner. Yes. Everywhere. He's gone. Like he's grown up in it. And it gets to a certain point where like,

there's only so much you can take now is some of itself inflicted. Well, of course. Well, I think that the team has to tell Marner, you've got to shut down that noise around you too. Everybody does. Yeah.

But this is what he's always grown up with. This has always been around him. And that's why to your point, trying to find out who, you know, the enemy inside is is so detrimental for where he needs to go as a player. That's a very fair point.

If he's going to get anywhere in his career being a playoff performer, this chase for people to blame, rightly or wrongly, and in this one, listen, if I'm Mitch Marner, I'm pissed off too. Who's saying this internally about me? I get that. And maybe this just comes with, and we heard a lot of this in the exit interviews from the players in the Zoom calls. They talked about, you know, the mental game and the mental barriers and all of that.

I think a lot of this is between the ears for everybody. And that starts with Mitch Marner. I really do. of this is between the ears for everybody, and that starts with Mitch Marner. I really do. The history of the NHL is littered with skilled players that figured out the playoffs. Pick any era, any team that was successful. There was the guy, whether it's Iserman, whether it's Ovechkin, whether it's whomever. Every successful team has, quote unquote, the guy no one thought could figure it out figuring it out.

For Toronto, that's Marner. Yeah, I'm betting on him. Okay, taking us out is Cubs Refrain, a synth rock duo that's been part of the Toronto music scene since 2015. Their next single, Ladylike, comes out June 25th and was recently featured

in the series finale of the Canadian sitcom Kim's Convenience. Here with Never Enough is Cubs Refrain on 31 Thoughts, the podcast. Slowly breathe in the night I tore the sheets off the bed There's no more time I can rest Come a season in my head. Take the weight. Am I the only one who feels this way? I'm always taking things day by day.

It's somehow never enough. It's somehow never enough take the silence embrace the noise face of grace Face of grace