32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Shanahan Shocker

Episode Date: May 19, 2023

It was a late night and the Leafs make a major move! Jeff and Elliotte discuss Brendan Shanahan's press conference as the Toronto Maple Leafs will not be bringing back Kyle Dubas as their GM (00:01). They also recap the 4OT thriller between Florida-Carolina (25:00), the performance from Sergei Bobrovsky and the play of Brandon Montour. They also go into some news from around the league — Clayton Keller and the Coyotes (37:30), Spencer Carbery (44:00), Viktor Arvidsson and the LA Kings (45:30), the salary cap (46:30), Ottawa sale (47:50), what Nashville might be doing with their coaching staff (56:20), and updates on searches in Pittsburgh (50:40), Calgary (52:30), Columbus (54:30), Anaheim (55:00), and Washington (55:40).Plus, the guys chat with Paul Stastny (58:20) about how he approaches the postseason, officiating in the Stanley Cup Playoffs, his relationship with referees, the art of the faceoff, what makes a great organization, going to his father for advice and becoming a hockey day, and what he took away from his time in Winnipeg. Watch the entire Paul Maurice & Rod Brind'Amour feature on Sportsnet's YouTube channelEmail the podcast at [e-mail] or call The Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailOutro Music: The Heavy Heavy - Desert RavenListen to the full track hereThis podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Audio Credits: Fox Sports, Sportsnet and WQAM-AM.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome everybody. We're just going to start with a brief opening statement and then a long open statement. Please raise your hand for a microphone. Thank you everybody. First off, I apologize for conducting this on a Friday at 3 o'clock in front of a long weekend. And before I get started on a bit of a timeline here and questions, I thought it was really important to at this point say as well, I want to thank Kyle Dubas for the nine years that he has given to this hockey organization and all the tremendous contributions

that he has made to the Toronto Maple Leafs. He's been a fantastic employee and a fantastic person the entire time. Well, this is going to be a first. What you're about to hear is a combination heel-toe car cast, courtesy of Elliot Friedman. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented by the GMC Canyon AT4X.

Right now, Elliot is walking. Soon, he'll be driving. Jeff Merrick on the mic right now, sitting Amal Delich at his place, probably moving around, shaking, buzzing, editing, getting everything done because that is the beehive that is Amal Delich and his brain. So the big story of the day. Friday was a drama-filled day around Leafland.

The news coming around noon. Elliot, you broke this on Twitter. The news of the day that the Maple Leafs had parted ways with General Manager Kyle Dubas. There was a Brendan Shanahan press conference in the afternoon and I think it's safe to say a number of jaws hit the

ground with a level of transparency about process and decision making that is rare in these types of situations. One thing we should point out, we have heard this now from the Maple Leafs side of things because a lot of this is going to be schedule. We've heard this now from one side of the equation here,

the Maple Leafs side. But before we start to drill down in some of the Pacifics, as we say in the Atlantic, what is your big takeaway, Elliot? That was some press conference. Oh, yeah. Jeff, you know my overall opinion that I'm never going to complain with someone pulling back the curtain. Like we always say, we want more people to be honest with us.

When they come out and they reveal details, you can't complain about it as a member of the media. So that's always my default. You know what I thought of? There's a great old quote that goes like this. Our society has become so fake that the truth actually bothers people. This was interesting. Like we're so used to, you know, press conferences where nothing is said that this one was pretty jarring, Elliot. It was. It was very jarring. And like, I think the key thing is, is that you said we've heard one side of the story. And to this point in time, we have not heard Kyle Dubich's side.

Right. So let's talk in that lens. But that was very revealing. Jeff, how much in this business do you hear i'm not going to negotiate through the media you rarely get a situation where an entire negotiation is brought out like that on the record it is extremely extremely unusual timeline on the kyle Dubas contract, I suppose you could go back to last offseason. I approached Kyle in his office at the Ford Performance Center and explained to him that he would be not receiving a contract offer prior to his final year of his contract.

I tried to reassure him that it wasn't a reflection on his future with the club. I reminded him that it was a situation I found myself in a few years prior as well and that it was my hope and it was my intention that at the end of the year and after being judged for the full five years of his contract that we would be extending him and moving forward. And it's very clear that Brendan Shanahan from his position wanted nothing that he felt happened be unturned. He wanted it all out there. What I would say then was in the next few days, days I didn't get any more clarity. Tuesday, Wednesday, Tuesday Kyle and I did not meet privately. On Wednesday we did meet privately and we discussed this again for a long time. I had probably more questions than answers and I did not have clarity. It further made

me feel that there's a strong possibility that that rightfully anyone's right to do so he might not want to be the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. So my focus then again continued toward the path of what do we look like next year with a different general manager. To Thursday, the next day, Kyle had said that his agent was going to call me and that he would reach out to me as well. I got a call in the afternoon from his agent, and basically a new financial package was presented to me by the agent. The conversation was brief.

I did not hear from Kyle throughout the day, and I went home, and just before dinner time i got an email from kyle saying that he did want to be the uh the general manager of the maple leaves and like i had people texting me you know people who work in the sport whether they're agents or teams like say that they don't know that they ever remembered a situation where that much detail of negotiation was laid out there for that. And to be honest, sitting there listening to it, I absolutely felt that. And some of us who were there, we were talking after, do you ever remember a press conference where it looked like a guy was getting hired one day and four days later he was gone? And the closest thing I can remember

was Bill Belichick with the New York Jets. When they hired him as the coach to replace Bill Parcells, he quit the next day. Like, that's the only thing I can think of that was even close. At that point, I have to, if I'm being honest, I was, I had gotten to a different place about how I felt about the future of the Toronto Maple Leafs and what was best and as hard as it was and as hard as it is to make a significant change to somebody that you're close to and that you've been working with for nine years I even though I was presented with, well, a gap had risen within the contract status, but nevertheless, the email that I received from Kyle, I just felt differently, and I felt that the long-term future of the Maple Leafs might have to change and slept on that and woke up this morning

drove to Kyle's office at Ford Performance Center and informed him that we were not going to be renewing his contract and that's where we are here today. But anyway what this did was it confirmed a lot of things that I believe to be true. And it also brought some new things in that I didn't know that were out there, that were part of this conversation. And the place where I'd like to start is here. are 47.5% owner of the Toronto Maple Leafs. And, you know, the other telecom, Bell, owns 75%. Now, Jeff, we are not allowed to talk about our contract negotiations. So I'm not going to do that because I don't want to void my contract. But what I would like to say is I have an understanding

about how Rogers and Bell negotiate. Now they're not the full owners of the teams, but they have the majority share between the two of them. Yeah. Now, Brendan Shanahan brought up here. He confirmed a couple of things.

Number one, that they'd started talking after the trade deadline, that they were making progress towards an extension. I believe there was a five year extension on the table for dubas and i think until this week the maple leaves believe that they were close to extending kyle dubas now we know now about dubas's media conference monday where he talked about his family and shanahan has admitted today that he felt a little different after watching that he was surprised by the level of where dubas went

you know and and let me go back i would also say part of our conversation in my office was that this was hard on his family in fairness we talked about that how quite frankly it's it's it's it's it's hard on all our families we it's it's a difficult thing it's hard on the players um the parents but it's it's the job we choose it's the sport we choose we're we're very fortunate to be in it but it it does not come without a toll on the families i completely completely acknowledge that. And we talked a little bit about that. The next day, though, I would say when after while watching Kyle's press, I think at that point, there was a shift in my thinking at that moment, a dramatical shift in my thinking as I drove home that night that as kyle expressed he might not want to be our gm and i have to take that very seriously and i've heard

from people who know dubas that he warned them the whole time that after the season was done before he agreed to any extension he was going to talk to his family. But the one that really came out today, Jeff, was, and we'd never heard this before, where the Dubas representatives went to Shanahan on Thursday with the framework of a new package. Now, again, we've only heard one side of the story. I don't want to jump to any conclusions until we hear Dubas' side of the story. But I know this about the telecoms. When they start a negotiation, they don't like last minute surprises. I know a lot of people who they've kind of told, hey, if we're going to go down this path, we don't want surprises

and we want to know you're in. So all the things that I heard from Shanahan today are the same things I've heard from others who have talked to them about contracts, not just in sports, but everywhere else. And if that was the way that it played out, I could see where not only Shanahan would have a big problem, but the majority owners of the team, the two of them, would have a very big problem. Further to that, however, Shanahan did say that this thing didn't fall apart based on money.

And this is vis-a-vis the new contract proposal from the Dubas camp here. I do wonder if it was a combination of money and also power within the organization as well. But one other thing, I thought it was interesting when Shanahan said, I had talked to Kyle Dubas the day before he did his media conference. I recommended to him not to do media. He wanted to, so I respected that. And he said that he wasn't going to do his media until there was a new deal in place and he had something to talk about, but respected Kyle's decision to go ahead and do media. privately to Brendan Shanahan and Shanahan intimated that when he saw and heard that it changed the way that he felt and he really had to consider the idea that Dubas might not be back and as far as having a responsibility to act upon that like I think what any manager would do is what Shanahan did if you have a feeling that you have an employee that's not going to come back, you almost immediately, at least in your own mind,

you start initiating a process of, well, if this happens, then I do this. So you're not starting at ground zero when that employee finally makes that final decision and it doesn't go your direction. I'm with you. I'm completely stunned at how much detail there was, again, from the one side. And it was pretty obvious that both, you know, Brendan Shanahan and everybody above him very much wanted this story out. And we can all have our theories on why they wanted this out. This was a very deliberate thing that we saw on Friday, Elliot. And this was the Maple Leafs

and Brendan Shanahan wanting to make sure that they got their side of all of this out in public with as much detail as possible. Were there any parts of the timeline or any parts of the details that Shanahan went over

that really gave you cause for pause? Like you talked about the new information that was out there, but were there any moments where you kind of said, hmm, I'm not so sure about this one, or I thought I felt differently about that part of the story? I actually breathed wow kind of out loud to the point where someone heard me when Shanahan brought up the thursday

yeah revised offer from the dubious side of the equation like like i said that was the biggest shocker for me i want to tell you something a little bit is that dubious had been in the office much of the week as you know he did the player exit meeting but he'd been around yeah and that had a lot of people working in the organization confident this was going to work out like it wasn't like he disappeared the other thing that put some pieces together for me in the press conference was shanahan said that dubas emailed him on thursday night and said he wanted to be back so on friday morning before we reported that dubas was not going to be back, a couple of people from other

organizations reached out to me to say they had heard that Dubas was returning, that he had decided he was going to stay. And I think that's obvious why. And then, you know, then I started hearing don't report that because the reverse is happening. And eventually we got it confirmed. Well, then I started hearing, don't report that because the reverse is happening. And eventually we got it confirmed. But I think I understand. I was wondering, like, how could that information have been so wrong? And thank God I didn't put it out there.

And I think what happened was, Jeff, he told Shanahan on Thursday night that he was coming back. He wanted to stay. And I think he communicated that to people like I'm staying I'm coming back only to be surprised by what Shanahan eventually told him but just from a private point of view that explained to me because I had someone who texted me after I put the tweet out and he said what the hell you told me this morning he was coming back and I called them and explained them the story so I think on Thursday night Dubas thought he was coming back and I called them and explained them the story. So I think on Thursday night, Dubas thought he was returning. And on Friday he was told he was. Was part of you the entire time that Shanahan was speaking, saying to yourself, if I'm Kyle Dubas, I need to put out some type of statement or I need to have my side of things out there. Was part of you thinking that

Elliot? Cause it certainly was for me. I mean, this was a very detailed, one-sided narrative. At some point, and the thing is, we'll see if he disputes any of it, or he says, no, that timeline is true. It's just that we haven't heard from him. The other thing that I wanted to mention is Dubas at his initial press conference said, it's Toronto or nowhere. Now I wonder if that changes. I'll tell you this. I think Pittsburgh is way, and we talk about them later in the pod. I think Pittsburgh is way down the process and I'm not convinced he's going

to be in it. But like if something else came up now, I wouldn't be surprised at all. If Dubas just says, you know what? I have no loyalty to this. I'll just go if me and my family want to go. You know, at the conclusion of that press conference, someone sent me a note. And it's funny because we're texting back and forth about the opportunity for Pittsburgh

and essentially mentioning what you just said, which is that Pittsburgh is well down the road. And this person said to me, look, like you look at the combination of money, road. And this person said to me, look, like you look at the combination of money, you look at the combination of power and opportunity that Fenway Sports would be able to offer between, you know, all of their properties, like that opens up a lot of doors for someone like Kyle Dubas. And this person said, don't be surprised now because things have changed. Before this was Dubas saying, I'm going to make my mind up. But now that it's been made up for him, I think we all wonder what you're mentioning. Does that change everything now?

Yeah. Does one of the groups bidding for the Ottawa Senators, do they now look at bringing in someone like Kyle Dubas? Should their bid be the successful one? I think it's a fascinating time right now like Kyle Dubas, should their bid be the successful one. I think it's a fascinating time right now for Kyle Dubas. And who knows, he may just take the year, be with his family, recharge. And I don't think anyone would blame him if he decides to go that direction. So the question then begins as well, as Brendan Shanahan mentioned, the beginning now of finding the next general manager begins in earnest with interviews.

What happens here? You know, one of the candidates that I wondered about on my radio show on Friday was Mark Hunter. And I know Mark Hunter has a past with the Maple Leafs, has a past with Brendan Shanahan,

a past with Kyle Dubas, a past with Lou Lamarillo, all of it. And that story has been well told. I think, you know, Brad Treliving would be an interesting name as well. There is a permission issue or is there? I'm not 100% on that one, but where do you think the Maple Leafs look here? And is it a lot of the similar names that we've heard attached to either the Pittsburgh

Penguins or the Calgary Flames in their search? I think those are all good names. The one thing about Mark Hunter is, don't forget, this organization initially chose Kyle Dubas over Mark Hunter. How does Mark Hunter feel about that? I don't know. I just feel it should be mentioned. I could do this with everything. I try to put myself in Mark Hunter's position.

You could spin it to yourself that they're coming to you to save this now. Like, this actually does put him in a more powerful position with the organization. Jeff, I'm willing to listen to all theories. I just, you know, like, I am willing to subscribe to any Substack newsletter. Like, I, you know, I don't have good answers for you here. Don't forget, I think Calgary had him on the initial list, and I think initially he couldn't interview. Then I think he did later in the process, but I just don't know where that's going to go.

So I think Hunter, I would include Hunter's name. Tree Living seems to me to be the obvious. I don't see why he wouldn't be a contender. I had been told that it's possible that Calgary is willing to relax the situation with the non-permission. So we'll see where that goes. But I've heard that that whole thing around him might be changing. So we'll see where that goes. The other guy I just want to mention, I think there's going to be some other names. I'm sure Ryan Martin's name is going to get thrown around there.

Although I understand he did not get permission to talk to Pittsburgh. So we'll see. But the one name I wanted to mention, because I think people are going to come out of the woodwork like crazy here. This is the Toronto Maple Leafs. And I think there's going to be a lot of people who like this job and are interested in this job because it's the Maple Leafs and the rewards are so high the one guy I've kind of wondered if it would ever work for him here is Doug Armstrong now I know Doug Armstrong signed a contract extension in St. Louis like I know he's set there. He could probably be there for a really long time. He's an Ontario guy. Like that's a guy to me, I think would really embrace the challenge.

And I also think he's the kind of profile that the Maple Leafs would want. I just don't know if he's even available, but I've always kind of wondered if Dubas ever left, would he be the guy that they would chase? Do you think they look more towards someone that has experience or did they look for someone who albeit is quite qualified, but hasn't sat in the big chair? So I'm thinking of internally Brandon Pridham, Jason Speta, externally, Eric Tolsky, these types of people. I have always believed, Jeff, you find the smartest person you think should be there and whatever weaknesses you think they might have, you build around them. You know, one of the things as well, a sidebar to all of this, and, you know, this was asked at the press conference as well. We all wonder about Sheldon Keefe. I think a lot of people wonder about Sheldon Keefe.

And this wouldn't be the first time that a manager gets dismissed and the coach is left in place and it's the new general manager's decision whether that coach continues in his capacity or he gets relieved of his duties as well. It seems as if the Maple Leafs are going down that road. The new GM will make up his mind on the future of Sheldon Keefe. Yeah, I think that would be fair, Jeff. I think that the one thing I've always talked about since the end of the season is I think Toronto would wait to see

if there's something out there they thought was a better idea before making a decision on the coach. Now, the one thing i mentioned elsewhere on this pod is about nashville i think you have to you reach a point where you have to be honest with the people there and say okay this is what we're doing so that if you are making changes they can go look for other work and i think even though keith has an extension for next year i think the leaves should be fair the same way but my opinion always was that I think they would wait to take a deep breath, see what else was out there potentially, and then make their decision. The bigger thing is even more Matthews. You know, everybody who's listened to this

podcast or heard me 96 days a week on your radio show, they know how I feel on about the Matthews, but he was going to extend, not full term, but he was going to extend. Now I take that prediction off the table. I think it's all in question. Matthews is going to have to meet the new person, decide if he likes the plan, see how it's going. I think at the very least now, Jeff, you have to be prepared for the possibility that he's not going to commit by July 1st. And you may have to go into next season without an answer. And I want to stress today is May the 19th. So you still have, you know, five and a half weeks until July 1st when his no move clause kicks in.

But you have to be prepared for the possibility of an organization that you may not know his answer by then. Because what's the guarantee that he or Nylander are going to commit by July 1st? You've mentioned this a couple of different times here and elsewhere. You're the Maple Leafs you need to know. You talk about resting power and where power rests and how a precarious situation that puts ownership in if you go into next season without a contract extension with austin matthews that puts all the power in the players hands i know it feels like oh got some time here you know july is still a ways away i don't know they still need to get someone in place and then articulate whatever that vision is to austin

matthews and then he needs to sit with that and figure out whether he's in or out yeah but i just gotta say jeff like i look at my own life a decision that big i don't know how ready i'd be willing to commit to it that quickly all i'm saying is you have to prepare for the possibility that that's the case now. Fascinating. Okay. We now return you to your regularly scheduled podcast. Apologies to Amal Delage, who's really had to stitch this one together. Amal, I'm sorry I ruined your life again, but great job.

That's our thank you. And now your reward is stitch this together like a surgeon and make it sound really good for the weekend. We love you, Amal. good for the weekend we love you we love you we love you dumps it in down to our right here's brent first keeps it to the outside sam bennett keeps it in out front kachuk is shot he scores he scores matth Kachuk, the overtime winner! The Panthers take game 1-3-2, the final! Matthew Kachuk ends the marathon,

and the Panthers go home happy tonight here in Raleigh! Matthew Kachuk puts it to bed, and Florida has won the opening game of the Eastern Conference Final. And a quick exit by Kachuk. He's pointing to the exit. He's had enough. Unbelievable. Hey Elliot, you remember like three days ago when we thought that Ryan Lomberg had scored the game winning goal? Kachuk, who quite frankly hasn't really been able to generate much in this game at all it is car cast once again um and it is in the wee hours as we kick off this podcast it is elliot 2 16 a.m quadruple overtime almost went to a fifth overtime period but it was matthew kachuk

uh very very late in that fourth overtime with 13 seconds remaining. Ices it for the Florida Panthers. They draw first blood. 79-47 the time of the goal in overtime. And what a brilliant night by Sergei Bobrovsky. Makes 63 saves. And this Florida Panthers story continues 1-0 they grab the series

lead apologies if we sound a little bit punchy maybe a little bit slow it's very very late wide brush thoughts on what we saw on Thursday night secondly I'd also apologize Jeff that this is going to be a shorter podcast than normal

except I'm not apologizing for that because it's late. Amel's got to edit, and if Amel doesn't get enough sleep, he gets really, really cranky. So we're going to keep this tight, and we're going to get through it. Wide brush thoughts, great drama, really intense game. Those players were exhausted. Considering they were coming off a break, both teams, they really ran out of gas pretty quickly.

Considering almost six hours after this game started, you finally score the goal that ends it and looked like you could not get off the ice any sooner. So all that considered, the floor is yours to describe just what you're feeling right now. Yeah, very excited. Pretty tired. But I think when you win, you're not right now. Yeah, very excited. Pretty tired. But I think when you win, you're not as tired as you probably are,

or as you think you are. So I'm excited to get out of here. I'm excited to catch that 235 bus back to the hotel and get some sleep and get some food and everything in us. I mean, this guy's cracking Red Bulls before the fourth overtime. Like, there's pizza flowing. It's actually pretty funny seeing it. I don't know, guys.

Guys will do a good job recovering and come back for game two tomorrow night. Mention the Red Bulls and the pizzas as the night went on. Ultimately, what did this game demand from your group? Perseverance, just a lot of fight in our group and no giving up. And that's the it's a great part i mean somebody makes a maybe a little mistake and there's four guys there ready to back them up and you got to go through all of us and yeah it's it's great we'll see you tomorrow night matthew congrats you to be honest jeff the thing i'm wondering now about is the goaltenders we know about bo Bobrovsky's history of really strict diet,

loses a lot of weight, 10 to 20 pounds during games. Anderson, he's always monitored because of his injury history. Like, this says to me that both Alex Lyon and Antti Ranta are going to play in this series and probably going to start at some point. But the drama was great. You know, I know you like ugly goals the thing that was amazing to me about this game jeff yeah was that there were some weird deflections and weird turnovers that should have ended the game a lot earlier than it did

and those goalies were incredible they made saves saves. They had no business making. There weren't a ton of shots by volume, but there were a lot of high degree of difficulty shots and rebounds slash deflections. The two goalies were incredible. The sixth longest game in NHL history. Oh, and by the way, I always love it when Carolina Hurricanes fans stand. I don't know what it is, but maybe it harkens back to 2006 in game seven against the Edmonton

Oilers. But again, a great crowd. I will never tire of watching Carolina Hurricanes fans say, what are these seats doing here? We don't need these seats. But you look at how these two teams mix and you look at how this game one was played and do you not come away from it, Elliot, and say, settle in.

This is not going to be four games. This will not be our last overtime. Not going to be our last overtime. Listen, that's the worst way to lose. There's no way around it. You'd rather lose, like I talked about last series where we had a game where we didn't really have a chance to win it that one could have went either way obviously we'll regroup and come back at it again the next one i mean it's just one game everything's going to be a one goal

game it's going to be really close it's going to be really tight and that was just flat out an awesome game it really was like regardless of whether you're a panther fan whether you're a hurricane fan that was a great hockey game that we saw on Thursday for each. And this thing is not going to be over early. These teams look so evenly matched. It was a really intense big hitting nasty game early. Obviously that changed later that you can't play the way those two teams

want to play for that long in one night. Like after a while, they just stuck to kind of positional play as opposed to nasty play because I just don't think you can go that long like that. It's not humanly possible. I thought Montour was incredible. He had a three-minute shift early in one of those overtimes, and then he had a minute off. Almost scored on that shift, too.

Had another 45-second shift, had a minute off, had another 70-second shift. Then he started taking minute-long shifts again. He had an incredible night, a really standout performance. And I think all the people in the Florida executive suite are going to have to all wear those team jackets again. Everybody was wearing the same color, I think, except for Sonny Maeda, who's their analytics guru.

I noticed he wasn't like a team player. He was wearing gray instead of that blue. But I guess they're all going to have to wear the same jackets again. They look like the Arizona Coyotes at the draft. Yes. Last season where they were matching suits like Beatles come to America 1964. Hey, one quick thing about Brandon Montour. I would hope, and I think a lot of us are in the same boat here,

that no matter how stressful a situation is, that we're able to laugh and smile through it the way that Brandon Montour goes through an intense game like game one against the Carolina Hurricanes. It seems as if it's impossible for Brandon Montour when he's playing not to smile. to smile. There are some guys, you know, always talking about, oh, we didn't see Conor McDavid's upper teeth all season because he's so focused and determined and, er, he's got that thing about him. Brandon Montour is the opposite. Do you not

look at Brandon Montour and say, do you not look at Brandon Montour and say, I think it's impossible for this guy not to smile while he plays hockey? Guy's always got a smile on his face. Well, we didn't have a camera on him when Lomberg's goal didn't count. So that's the only thing that would make me wonder if that could do it. And by the way, I agreed with that call. White, he skated into

the crease on his own volition. And I think when you do that, even with the contact that happens later, you're risking not getting the call. Now, I didn't see it, but I guess some fans said postgame, the game-winning goal looked pretty close to offside. And no doubt they looked at it because they look at everything in overtime. But could you imagine if they would have said, yeah, offside, that goal doesn't count? There might have been riots in the streets.

Well, the one thing about that, going back to that goalie interference call and I'm with you I agree as well the minute you and this is one of the things that I think people need to keep in their mind the minute you go into the crease of your own volition your liability goes through the roof yes I'm with you always think of it that way it goes sky high we should have mentioned as well

Tebow Tara Vinen came back so he returned. That was great to see. And actually, it was great to see him taking shots, too. That was the thing, considering the injury, I thought, okay, he's going to be guaranteed. I mean, he's a pass-first guy to begin with, but are we going to even see him try

to take any shots? And he did, and that's a wonderful thing for the Carolina Hurricanes. So they'll rehydrate, they'll regroup, and come back at it. Checks notes tomorrow, Elliot. They're lucky it's not like Game 2 of the West, which is an afternoon game. I don't know who could come back.

Yeah, amen to that. Amen to that. You know, one of the best hockey interviews we've seen in a while was done by Christine Simpson and broadcast in the pregame for the Carolina Hurricanes-Florida Panthers Game 1 matchup in the Eastern Conference Final. It's Christine Simpson and her sit-down with the two

head coaches in the Eastern Conference Final, Rod Brindamore and Paul Maurice. This one, the minute it dropped, made headlines. It was both engaging, interesting, educational, and at times quite emotional. Here's a snippet of Christine Simpson's sit down with both Rod Brindamore and Paul Maurice. Rod Brindamore is someone you've been a part of each other's lives. Some of it good and some of it bad. How would you describe

your relationship with Rod? You have to go back to the Hartford Whalers who were not very good. And then there were two or three inflection points. And one of them is kind of Gary Roberts and Marty Jelena coming in. Ron Francis coming in. But the next big leap was when Rod Brindamore came in.

Talk about a change in culture. It was a block of time that it was a really, really good team. And as a player, Roddy was a huge, huge part of that. Obviously, you know, my career ended with him, so that wasn't the, we didn't end on the best of terms at that. The good and the bad side. That year was rough, you know. Tell me a bit more about that year.

Well, it was my last year playing, and I wanted to play another year. And I'm still this old guy that's hanging on. So I get kind of pushed right out of the whole nine yards. I mean, right out. Like, not kind of hiding it. It was obvious. You were done. You were getting four minutes a night.

But I'm also then at the tail end of his career, which is difficult for players at times. And that's probably the part that wasn't good for him. But you're still the head coach, regardless of your feelings of people, you still got to make those decisions. And I would think now Roddy would have a way different perspective on it than he would have at the time.

So at the time though, as you said that, the end of your playing career, I mean, he sat you a game, he took away the captaincy. Basically, you couldn't do much more to a guy that, to be honest with you, I mean, I think I did it right. I don't know that he would do that again. Because I think, like, I learned a lot from that. I learned that's not how you treat your guys, that do it right.

Excellent work as always, Simmer. You can enjoy the full piece that Christine put together at our Sportsnet YouTube channel. Listen to the 32 Thoughts podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. Ellie, let's get to some news of the day. News around the NHL from Thursday bleeding into Friday, bleeding into the weekend, starting with the Arizona Coyotes and and most specifically, Clayton Keller's agents, Brian and Scott Bartlett,

met with the Arizona Coyotes on Thursday. What's happening with Clayton Keller, who just had a very tough season, as we all know, but he just had a monster year for Arizona. Masterton Trophy finalist, and I know the Coyotes took a lot of pride in that, and so did he. Fantastic season, especially

being a very deserved all-star game participant considering that nobody really knew if he was going to be able to play this year. So, Jeff, as you mentioned, his agents, the Bartlets, did meet with the team on Thursday, and nobody was commenting on it.

But what I heard is there's not a formal trade request at this point in time. But what I did hear is that Keller or his representatives, I don't know who it was exactly, just said, look, we want to know in the next little while where we're going here you talked about how everybody in that organization thought that they were going to win and they lost unfortunately very badly for them and i think everyone's in shock, especially the players who their information was that they were going to win. And I think Keller is not the only one. I think there's others. But I think, as I said, it was made clear that he wants some sense of direction for the future of the franchise on and off the ice soon.

And I think there's two very different storylines here number one is on the ice i think the coyotes are looking at it like no matter what happens we have to build on what happened last year they have a lot of draft picks they have two in the top 12 they have a lot of prospects coming they have a lot of good young players they overachieved last year in terms of how hard they played and how competitive they were and they look at it as we have to continue to build on that on the ice regardless of what's going on around us, we have to continue improving and playing hard. And they're going to try to sign Cooley,

who, by the way, his advisors are the same people who represent Keller, the Bartlets. I don't know how easy that's going to be. I think it's going to be a challenge. But I think they're going to sell them on the fact that, hey, Clayton, we had a better than expected year this year, and no matter what's going on around us, we're going to keep pushing to achieve that and surpass what happened last year. I think that's the message that they're going to give them. However, what they can't sort out and what they may not be able to answer in the next

30 to 45 days is what's the off-ice future of the franchise we know they're playing there next year but we don't know what the future is and we also know that the coyotes are going to have over 20 million in dead cap space and that to me is the bigger challenge it's not the on ice thing unless a whole bunch of players in addition to keller come out and say they don't want to be there which forces arizona to make some tough decisions but as far as it stands right now we don't know that that's the case. So I can see a path where they can say to Keller, Hey,

you know, if you are okay with where we were at the end of last year, we can build on that, but they can't answer his off ice question. I don't think anybody's going to be able to answer this in the next little while. I think it's going to take a bit longer than this to sort it out. So is that going to be good enough for him? Are they going to be able to come back to him in the next few weeks and give

him satisfactory answers on those questions? And if the answer is no, we'll see where we go here. But as far as I know, he's the first player to tell the team in the aftermath of this vote that he wants more clarity i remember when they signed into that contract people ripped it it's turned out to be a really good deal and there will be lots of teams out there that would love to get their hands on Clayton Keller. And the one thing to remember here is when Arizona had the pressure on Chikrin, they waited. And I always say the surest predictor of future behavior is past behavior, although the pressure will be on if Keller is unhappy.

Do we have any type of idea where the Players Association is at on this Arizona Coyotes decision? Well, really right now, it's a bunch of question marks more than decisions. I mean, the voters have made up their minds and have now forced the Coyotes into a situation. Marty Walsh met with the Arizona Coyotes, obviously previous to the Tempe vote.

But do we have any idea, if anything, how the Players Association feels about all this? You can be pretty sure you know how the NHL and the Board of Governors feel about this. But do we have any idea? Do we have any idea how the PA feels about this one? They're really frustrated. I don't know that there's much they can do, Jeff. I really don't know. But they're really frustrated.

And I heard that one of the things that Marty Walsh, who's the executive director, had said is that this is a guy who knows how to win elections, right? He's won them. And I can't imagine there's a tougher election out there to win than Boston mayor. Like nothing is dirtier than local politics and it's boston yeah and i had heard that he had indicated that his experience and what it was that the coyotes just didn't do enough to win and i had heard that in the days leading up to it, when he heard what they were up to, he was concerned about it. But I don't think there's much that can be done, honestly.

Okay, we'll see how this one continues to play itself out. And don't be surprised if this is a story that we continue to revisit podcast after podcast. Okay, a couple of other things around the NHL. You tweeted about him under the umbrella of the New York Rangers, but is all of a sudden Spencer Carberry the new coaching hotness in the NHL? As far as we know, there's three teams now that have asked to speak to him. Anaheim, Rangers in Washington I heard

about the Rangers today you know for one thing that kind of disproves something that earlier I believed is that the Rangers were looking solely for NHL experience you know the New York Post Larry Brooks and Molly Walker they've been all over theay leach idea and i don't know that i think that they would be doing this if they didn't have reason to believe he wasn't on the radar i think they're good reporters so there's at least a couple of people in there and like i mentioned carbury that don't have previous head coaching experience and we've all wondered about Chris Knobloch too. So at the very least, I think the Rangers are looking around there at least investigating the possibility of someone coaching them who doesn't have previous NHL head coaching experience. So, you know, not the first time I'm going to be inaccurate on these podcasts, but hopefully

it doesn't happen too often. A couple of other things from around the NHL. Yeah. Victor Arvidson, Los Angeles Kings. What do you hear? What do you know? Yeah, I'm hearing the Kings are looking to clear a bit of cap room. I guess that there's some business they want to do.

So one of the names I've heard is Arvidsson's name. We'll see what that means. We'll see what it does. That is a player who I think might have some availability out there. And I'm not saying it's definitely going to be him, but I'm looking at the guys in that similar salary range. I think the Kings need to clear some room, and I've heard that he could be a player of interest.

Clearing room, maybe for a goaltender Elliot, or am I getting too far ahead of myself? No, I don't, I don't think you're too far ahead of yourself. I mean, we know they're going to need to sign a goalie somewhere or other,

but also I still think they want to sign Gavrikov. Right. And so, yes, like, I think that those are the kinds of players and positions that we're going to be looking at. Yes. A couple more things.

The salary cap next season. Yes. So I understand that one of the things that came up in some of these meetings, and a couple of the managers have now heard it too, like the players have made it very clear they're not touching their escrow caps. And I think the league knows that.

Some of the math that's going around is that because of how close they are to getting some of the full debt paid off from the COVID years, that they think the math works where the cap could go up maybe instead of just 1 million, maybe 1.5 or closer to 2 without having to go to the players about the escrow caps or fiddling around with those numbers, which we know the players are not going to do. So I'm getting the sense that some teams and players are hopeful that it won't just be a million. It'll be a million and a half two but we'll see i said what about like three and they said they don't think that's gonna work right and definitely not more than that but hopefully we get maybe a bit more juice squeezed out of this lemon than we thought we were going to uh well here's something and we'll see if the um the

juice is worth the squeeze on it because we've spent so much airtime talking about it, and here we go again. You know, there was a feeling that, you know, by the end of this week, we may have a better sense or a greater sense of who was going to own the Ottawa Senators as this podcast comes out on Friday.

We're narrowing it down a little bit more, but how sharp is the focus for you right now on who's going to be the last bid standing here? It's been a little quieter this week. The one thing I've heard, Jeff, is that I think the bids got in, and like I said the other day, they're really complicated,

but I think there's been some fine tuning going on i've just heard there's been some contact about okay we see your package we have questions about this what about that how much of a debt load to buy the team things like that i mean we know there's a lot of debt on the team. Ron mentioned the $400 to $450 million number, which we've all heard. But then how much debt to buy the team, the structure of ownership,

I've heard that that has kind of been the conversation. So what it says to me is that they're going through the bids, They're calling back the groups with any questions and they're working towards it. I, you know, someone said to me, they hope they can have an answer by Friday, but they're not sure that that's going to happen, especially since in Canada, you know, Friday's a long weekend. You know, those bankers, they want to go surfing or golf. You know, the one thing that I continue to wonder about here is how much of an advantage the Andlauer and the Kimmel family bids have here, since there is a history with those two groups in the NHL, Kimmel through the Pittsburgh Penguins and Michael Andlauer as a minority owner of the Montreal Canadiens. I can't help but think that they would be the ones that considering having, you know,

done business with the National Hockey League, they would have a working, not more of a working knowledge of what a successful bid would look like, how you need to put it together, what the right notes you need to strike on it are. Again, I keep coming back to this idea of these have been two bids that have been very quiet, two bids that have done things the way the NHL traditionally likes to do business. And these are two groups that know exactly what the NHL is looking for in a bid. I'm not going to argue with you, but I've learned one thing about this process.

Don't guess. Because Wonder Woman's going to show up to endorse one of these teams, Gal Gadot. Okay, let's finish on this one. The Pittsburgh Penguins, and whether it's Darsh or McKinnon or Carmanos or Tulsky, does it not feel as if they're starting to narrow their own field? We know they cast a wide net,

but does it feel like they're starting to drill down a little bit more here in Pittsburgh? I believe that Jason Botterill interviewed on Thursday. And again, I want to stress this. This did not come from anybody I work with, but I believe that Jason Botterill interviewed on Thursday. I'm curious about this. I'll tell you this. I have had people warn me not to guess on what the structure

of the Pittsburgh front office will look like. We've expected Poho plus GM. I've had people warn me. It might not look like exactly that. I just, people say to me, I think I've mentioned it already. I think Botterill has been very careful about where he interviewed

use. He interviewed in Anaheim. I think he's turned down others. He interviewed in Pittsburgh, but I was told if the structure is not to his liking, that it's going to be a tough fit for him. So that was one thing I was warned about is, is he going to be happy with the structure that is presented to him?

I do believe a lot of the other contenders, the Darsh's, the Tulsky's, uh, the Greeley's, the Carmanos is the McKinnon's whoever's left standing of that group, I believe was in Pittsburgh this week. And the Chica thing, I don't have a good handle on it.

I know he met with them, but I'm not sure where that stands right now, because someone did tell them me this might not be his only opportunity in the nhl whipping around other teams that have notable hires to make calgary flames ellie with a couple of positions still open here the gm will be the first yes so craig conroy's interviewed there brad paschal's interviewed there again same legal waiver as before jeff dave nonis was in there this week and i was trying to figure out uh what it was but he's got a long history with don maloney apparently and also bob murray's there and bob murray and dave nonis worked together in anaheim So that's the connection. Also, I mentioned it before, Mark Hunter initially declined, but I think he came to the process later. Now, I'm assuming there's others in there. I think they had about somewhere between four to six second round candidates. between four to six second round candidates you know the one thing that someone said to me was if you're gonna go with a first timer you better have a good reason to pick someone else other than

Craig Conroy because Craig Conroy has been in the organization for a long time he's very popular internally and you risk losing him if you pass him over and also jerome mcginla i think if you want jerome mcginla to have more of a role in the organization your chances increase if conroy is there so that to me is the situation that if you're going with someone who's never been in NHL GM before, you're really going to have to beat Conroy. And, and as a couple of people told me, that is going to be a really big job.

Like they want to win and they've got some big decisions to make. Someone said to me, if you're Elias Lindholm, are you signing for a penny less than Bo Horvat? So those are the kinds of things that they're going to have to deal with. Columbus Blue Jackets and their coaching hunt. Yarmou Kekalainen kind of backed off from, we might be getting it done right away we'll see where they go i think peter laviolette is still very much on their radar i think they've had a couple other interviews this week i haven't been able to pin them down yet but laviolette is definitely very much on their radar uh we

mentioned this team earlier under the umbrella of spencerberry, but the Anaheim Ducks. I still think he's a little bit away. I think that Verbeek, I'm not sure when he's coming back from the World Championships, but I heard he still has more interviews to do. Now, in the last pod, I kind of tripped myself up a bit because I mentioned Bradshaw close to Anaheim. I'm not sure that Bradshaw is on Anaheim's list,

but I have heard he's on someone's. The other name, I'm not sure where, but I have heard there's interest in Kirk Muller. So there are names out here I'm hearing that I can't pin down yet. In Washington, I would say, Jeff, I wonder if any of these coaches we mentioned are in with them. I don't know, but

obviously Carberry and Halpern. I've been told they've interviewed at least a third, but I haven't been able to pin down who it is yet. Any idea what's happening with the Nashville Predators? Barry Trotz taking over from David Poyle,

decision on things like, you know, not just players, but also is the coaching staff coming back? The one thing I was told there is that I think there's a realization that we're getting to the point where these coaches have to know. Now, I don't want to tip my hand because I don't know the answer, Jeff, but I was told that, you know, basically the point was made that if you do let anyone know, they have to be able to go look and find other opportunities, right? So I've heard the Predators were sensitive to that, and I think we are getting down to a decision one way or the other. Hi, gentlemen. Kenny from Arizona.

Obviously a pretty disappointing day, the night after the failed temp evoke. I just wanted to speak my mind on a couple things here. One, I want to say transparently the Coyotes got me through a lot of difficult times as a kid, and I'll always be grateful for that. There's a lot of people I know that have experienced the same. We are kind of looked at as the laughingstock of the league when it comes to fandom. But I do want to say one thing that we weigh our worth by realizing how difficult it was to become a fan of hockey in Arizona. It wasn't as easy.

You know, we didn't have rinks on every corner like Starbucks, or I guess in Canada's case, Tim Hortons. But it was tough for us growing up to find passion for hockey. So I think in a sense, and I'm biased, of course I'm a little bitter, but I would say that that makes us fans in Arizona, us diehards, bigger fans than, uh,

uh, than fans of the, uh, of our, of our friends up North. Um, as weird as it is to say, but,

uh, some thoughts. I want to thank Shane Doan and the Coyotes organization for all the great memories. Um, I know it's not officially over yet, but we're not done. We, we kind of see the writings on the wall memories. I know it's not officially over yet, but we're not done. We kind of see the writings on the wall now.

So as always, great job, Elliot. Great job, Jeff. Great job, Amel. And thanks for all you do. You know, there's been a couple of interviews that we've done in the past couple of months that we've kind of been sitting on because we haven't found the right place to present them. And we thought for one of them, today is probably the right time. With the Carolina Hurricanes now in the conference final against the Florida Panthers, as we mentioned, the Panthers win game one in quadruple overtime 3-2.

We thought this would be a good place to drop the Paul Stastny interview that we did about a month ago in Ottawa. This was late in the regular season. Carolina being very generous with their athletes' time. Paul Stastny was one of them. And here is one of the most interesting players in the NHL. The last name is Hockey Royalty.

Excellent player, veteran guy, type of player that every team wants. Here's Paul Stastny on 32 Thoughts to Podcast. Enjoy this. First of all, thanks for doing this. And you've done this a number of times. This being getting ready for the playoffs. And you've done this a number of times, this being getting ready for the playoffs. What do you do to get ready?

And at what point in your mind are you starting to think, okay, I need to get the rest of my life in order because playoff time, it's singular focus. At what point of the season do you say, all right, I need to start to change what I do? Being in the league for so long and having my dad help me out and kind of experience through all this, I think early in my career, I almost took it too serious where it was like, oh, playoff time, I try to change everything.

And as I've gotten older, I've realized, and even early in my career playing with Sakic, Joe would always say, people were like, oh, Sakic's such a great playoff player. Joe would always be like, no, I just try to stay the same. I think a lot of times everyone tries to do more and they actually end up doing less and he was just consistent play the same way you know whether it's regular season preseason or playoff time and so you try to have that mindset and i think i've been lucky enough like i said with people

i've had around me and then my wife and kids understand that i try to just have the same schedule nothing changes come playoff time elliot and i always have this conversation what changes more in the playoffs the officiating or the players yeah what do you think um i think a little both i mean i think there's you know the refs don't want to you don't want to talk about the rest during the game or after the game so i think i totally understand when the rest put the whistle away whether it's late in the game whether it's a close one one game or whether it's overtime but then the players do i think the mindset changes a little, whether it's a close 1-1 game or whether it's overtime. But then the players do, I think the mindset changes a little bit. It's harder to have those high-end skill goals, so there's a lot more grinding, there's a lot more physical play.

And then I think as the series kind of goes on, guys are more worn down a little bit and you have to grind and you can't play that free-flowing hockey. Can I pick up on that officiating comment? I'm curious too because normally I default to whatever the players want. This is their game. What do you want officials to do in the postseason? Do you want the whistles away?

Do you want penalty in the first? Is the penalty an OT? What do players want? Yeah, I think OT. I mean, I like power players all the time. Don't get me wrong. But at the same time, I also think in all sports, I think when it's overtime, all sports i think like when it's

overtime when when it's late when it's tied like if it's like a questionable call i'd rather the ref err on the side of caution not make a penalty you know and just leave it at that and guys understand obviously there's always gonna be complaining from the players from the coaches but you know that's what we do and sometimes i feel bad for the rest because they don't see the replay they everything has to be called in live speed. You guys know how it is. It happens so quick. Then when we see the replay five, six times, then we can start yelling at the refs.

I always tell the refs, I was talking to them the other day, I'm like, I feel bad for you guys. You guys can't use the replay or the jumbotron to see what you messed up on. It happens sometimes. Absolutely. If you understand it, it's like, well, we weren't complaining when we saw it in live speed, but then when we saw the replay like we should understand that sometimes

and give the benefit of the doubt to them end of the super bowl this year flag or no flag prior to the pass holding number 24 defense automatic first down yeah that's worst case scenario you'll see james bradbury they're gonna say he grabs him. He's got his left hand on his back. I don't know. Mike, listen. I think on this stage, I think you let him play.

Obviously, Mahomes thought he saw it. I think, I don't know. I think you let him play, finish this thing out. I don't love that call, Mike. I mean, I think you got to see the whole thing. It seemed to me at the initial break, he grabbed the back of the jersey and pulled it. If we see that, I think that is all. Geez, I think you've got to see the whole thing. It seemed to me at the initial break he grabbed the back of the jersey and pulled it. If we see that, I think that is all. Geez, I don't even know.

I was happy the Chiefs won. But, yeah, it happened so quick. Same thing. You know, like some guys said flag, some guys did. But then I also thought that kind of the Chiefs dominated that whole second half. So it was just a matter of time until they were going to win. Now, are you a guy who talks to referees a lot? Do you? No, I never do. You never do, eh you never do it are you a talker at all on the ice maybe a little bit not no i mean

sometimes like if i'm lined up with someone i might say something quick you know before the game and stuff but during the game not really the rest i'm bad i don't even know they're just because i don't talk to them unless i'm irate about something then i'll give it to them and then they'll know because i don't throughout my my whole career, I try not to disrespect them or yell at them because I know it's a tough job. So then when I do get mad, I think they know that I have some kind of beef that I was right about. That they say that, okay, Paul Stastny's yelling at us,

so it must be something. I love that philosophy, so I have to know, what's the angriest you ever got at an official during a game? And you don't have to say that. No, I think it was like, I think we were playing Detroit early in my career, and I was still using the wood sticks, know what's the angriest you ever got an official during a game and you don't have to say no i think it was like i think we're playing detroit early in my career and i was using i was still using the wood sticks and i never broke a wood stick never broke a wood stick maybe twice in my career face-offs i'd always break the one pieces you know the wood you remember those thick right

and so one time i was i won the draw and then draper slashed me and broke my stick chris draper in detroit and that was when when Detroit was a wagon and so they got the calls and I lost it on the ref because I mean I went to town on because I've never broken a step never in practice never on a one-time or nothing you know I'm saying and I couldn't believe it like that was a one time like oh slashed broke my stick and like it was an obvious call and they didn't call it and so I gave it to him for a bit. And did you get a reputation or anything like that after that?

Like, did guys say? I don't know. I just, to me, like, I like the older refs. I just like when the refs

communicate with you. So, like, if they make a mistake, whether it's, for me as a centerman, the more times I talk to them is more about

the way they drop the puck or kind of jumping too early or your feet being in or just different things like that. So, if I'm mad about something and I know I'm right like they'll come back and apologize that's all i ask and vice versa if i mess up something and i see it i'll apologize to them but when they

acknowledge it then then i know that they're doing their job and you know humans make mistakes yep i want to ask you about face offs but before i do i want to rewind to your your point about not talking uh much to officials like not officials and not giving it to them. So when you do, it's more profound. Does that come from your dad? He's like Hall of Famer, like one of the best of all time. And statesman-like. Yeah, he's very stoic.

He's awesome. He was emotional, though. I think he's a little more emotional. I see him, so I don't know how he was on the ice because there wasn't as much tape back then i think so i don't know i think it's just you know like worry about yourself kind of thing like the minute you start yelling at the rest a minute you start using excuses and i think get away from your game you know so i think it's just more about focusing yourself and you know me and him can talk about complain about it but after a while it's

like you know no one cares when you're complaining you know you just gotta do your job kind of thing okay let me get to face offs i'm fascinated with them and the one thing that the nhl it seems like every year there's some type of tweak to how face offs are done and where we're at now because we used to always hear oh you know the guys cheat with the feet cheat with the feet cheat with the feet given the way that face-offs are done now i'm not asking for state secrets but is it possible to cheat still well if the refs were consistent it'd be tough but the problem is you have like some early in the game will be like okay can't use your feet or you'll get kicked out for using your foot which is fine i understand that so if you set that precedent then later in the game if someone else does it you should kick them out but sometimes it doesn, which is fine. I understand that. So if you set that precedent, then later in the game, if someone else does it, you should kick them out.

But sometimes it doesn't happen like that. To me, that's where I get frustrated. Is there a way to cheat? Yeah, they're all different. Each ref kind of looks at different things. So do you know how each ref does a drop? No, but I think the more you do it throughout the game, you kind of just get a...

See, that's the problem with me. I don't look at who the linesman is so i think on right there's two lines right so i think on one side of the ice one rough drops and the other side i believe drops it so i don't even look at that i just kind of i kind of look at the puck out of the corner of my eye and kind of look at the way the other guy's set up but it's more about um yeah sometimes where you're at home or on the road you put your stick down first yep some make really put your stick down a. Some make – really put your stick down. A lot of times it's just kind of you time it a little bit, right?

You always get the advantage if you're kind of the offensive guy. But is there a way to cheat? I mean, there's always little ways to try to get advantage, but it's not that – it's tough. Who's the best cheater in face-offs in the NHL? Cheater? What's a cheater? A guy who uses his foot?

You call that a cheater or no? Well, I guess you would be the best person to decide that. Yeah, I don't know. cheater well what's a cheater a guy who uses his foot you call that a cheater or no well i guess you would be the best person to decide that yeah i don't know like i've used my foot but then like i'll line up against shiru and we'll be like hey are you using your foot i'm like no he's like no so we won't use our foot if he is like what you know i'm saying like when you when you when you've gone against older guys crafty guys a lot better to switch it up like it's kind of fun to like do stuff like that like i said the older you are the more games you had the more you can get away with you know and i think that's just like the elderly statesman

you see that you know in all sports so i don't think it's cheating i just think like it's kind of a respect factor i say it as a compliment yeah i think it's good and respect factor but if one guy cheats to me then you can cheat the same way and you're not going to get called out right so it's like you know if they're taking an inch, you take an inch. Nothing's going to happen. If they're aggressive, then you get aggressive. And something happens and you kind of call out the ref right in front of the player and then the player's kind of thinking about it.

And that's where I tell guys, that's where face-offs is. If you're shrugging at someone or someone's using their foot and it kind of rattles you and you tell the ref, don't say it to the ref away from the player. Right before the face-off, tell the ref right in front of the player and that player will hear and he'll start thinking about it won't use his foot or won't cheat because then he's already thinking about and the ref's looking for it so then the guy if the guy does what he does say he you know so he doesn't touch the ice with his stick and you tell the ref like hey heads up

this guy to make sure he touches the ice with a stick so then all of a sudden he's changing his mindset the way he's taking the draw or if he doesn't the ref's looking for him to cheat and he'll kick him out who's the toughest player to face off against like the tough guys i don't mind i i'm pretty good against a lot of them i think like hurdle's pretty good hurdle on his forehand side is good me and tase had a lot of good battles i actually like tase and i think i told him like he used to be really good on his forehand side. And then a couple years ago he switched and just started going backhand only. Then he went back to his forehand side, I think, this year.

And he was really good again. Sometimes the good players are tougher on, like, their forehand side than their backhand. And then you know he's actually really good. And it just almost made no sense for me. Sid's really good. He does that thing where the puck drops, he just slaps it over. Yeah, and I started doing it in practice, and I'm like,

you get a lot more leverage. I was like, oh, it kind of works. I actually talked to my dad a month ago. I was like, I've kind of been doing this in practice because I'll play with steps, and he's a righty, so I don't have to take him on my right side. But it's almost more fun taking him on my forehand side and now kind of doing what Malkin and Sid do

just because you realize that, yeah, you don't need a stiff stick, but you get a lot more leverage. You get a lot more power. I mean, if you have good hand-eye coordination, you'll win the majority of them. Not the majority. Not clean, but you win them at a certain angle, and then you kind of get it. But Sid, when he started doing that, it looked easy to defend,

and then you realize his hand-eye is really good, his stick is really stiff, and he's got a lot of power behind that. Okay. Going back to what you said about Giroux, have you ever or has anyone ever done this to you where you said to them or they said to you using your foot and you said no and then you did it anyway because it was like a big face-off or something like that? No, but I think, I mean, I used to use my foot a lot early in my career,

but not all the time. And that's where my dad was always good, like trying to work on your face-off, switch it up all the time. You can that's where my dad was always good. It's like trying to work on your face off, switch it up all the time. You can't just have one move. And yeah, you know, cause the harder guys for me are the guys that switch it up all the time, whether they sweep with their backhand or they come over top of their backhand

or they sweep with their forehand, come over top of their, you know, just different things like that. Cause then once you expect something, they switch it up and it kind of surprised you. And it gets you thinking too, in the face off.

It was more like, did they lie to you or And it gets you thinking too in the face-off. It was more like did they lie to you or did you ever lie to someone in a big face-off? I think Giroud did it once. I think we talked about it. But it wasn't even a big face-off though. It was like a NutriZone or a Center Ice Jar or something like that. But then, like you were saying, sometimes an interesting play or something that I think smart guys try to do is or I tell some of these younger guys is, you might have like your go-to face-off play that you know you're going to win,

and you don't use it a lot. Sometimes you want to save those for big moments. Yeah. You know, because then all of a sudden, if you are just doing something regular all game, and then you have a big face-off in the D zone or the O zone, and you do something different, it surprises the other guy. I know we're spending a lot of time on face-offs here,

but I'm curious about that. The idea of get your opponent to believe one thing, and then when it's late in the third period, offensive zone face-off, you bust something out. I'm always interested in the tactics of it. Have you ever lost face-offs on purpose? No, the only guy I saw do that was Getzoff and Perry did a few times. I was so pumped because I thought I won a clean,

and then Perry got the puck. I was like, oh, I got the loss there. It's actually a very... They were the best at it. They were really creative at it. Yeah. You know, because Perry would just jump behind the D automatically because as a D covering the wall,

you're kind of almost going forward looking to pick the guy. And they did a few times, but they wouldn't do it all the time. Same thing. They would just do it a few times in the O zone, and then they would have possession i was like wow that was creative i have to tell you i didn't think we talked for 15 minutes with faceoffs i gave you credit merrick and you too paul that was really good he's the guy that does it i just ask questions like your big sports guy when i think like changing your face off like at the end of the game

it's almost like in tennis if you ever watch tennis yeah and you watch like a guy like nadal is your perfect example like or jokovic will do it too they could be in a tight game and then against each other there'll be a second serve break point they'll serve and volley something they haven't done all match and it's just an easy point but you're like wow i can't believe they pulled that out you know but you got to be you got to be confident and like comfortable with it and that's sometimes that's that part's hard that's awesome that's got to come with age though right like that just comes with age and experience yeah like we're talking about yeah yeah and i just kind of yeah i want to ask you like you've played for a bunch

of different organizations you've been around a long time and you've always been very insightful and the thing i want to ask you paul is from everything you've seen what makes a good organization in the nhl and what makes a bad organization in the NHL? Yeah, I think it's like anything. I think it's culture, but I think everything probably starts from the top down. You know, whether it's business, whether it's organizations, and whether that's ownership, management, coaches, it trickles down. And I think the top ones kind of do a good job of compartmentalizing what they're good at

and then they don't try to micromanage you know i'm saying then they let the coaches do their jobs the coaches trust their assistants to do their jobs their assistants trust the video coach video coach works with the players you know and everyone kind of knows their role i think that's a big one too everyone knows the role and everyone feels involved in the organization so when things are going good everyone feels good when things are going bad everyone feels like they want to pick up the slack together. And is there one team or group or person who led like that? Like when you think about where it really worked really well and why?

Sometimes it's stuff you don't see. It's behind-the-scenes stuff that you don't see. So as you get later or whether it's like talking to coaches later in my career, when I see them in the summertime, I'll hear more you know the business side of the game or behind the scenes part of the game and you realize like i think as a player is you realize you know the coaches are probably hearing it from the management and sometimes the management are hearing from the ownership and i think you don't realize stuff like that when you're younger you just think that you know everyone's kind of working for you but you realize it's you know everyone's in it for

the long haul everyone wants to win and everyone feels the pressure and you know everyone's kind of working for you but you realize it's you know everyone's in it for the long haul everyone wants to win and everyone feels the pressure and you know everyone's livelihoods are at stake in a different sense yeah it's hard to be specific like i said if if you're running organization in the nhl you're doing something right right sometimes you might be missing a piece here or there and it's easier said than done to find that missing piece and it's just sometimes you get lucky with it, and sometimes it just takes patience, and you have to kind of let people grow into it. What does Carolina do well?

Everything's very tight-knit. I think it starts like the culture. I think Rod did a good job. But for how intense he is with hockey, with wanting to win, he's also a big family guy. And I think him having you know an older son who just won national championship and him having a younger son i think puts a different perspective on that he does a good job of relating to kind of being in the moment enjoying the moment

but also like when you have family here when you have friends here like these are the memories that will last a lifetime instead of so focused on winning a game or two there's sometimes there's a bigger picture. And I think he's, as I've gotten older, Paul Maurice was like that, as I've gotten older and I have kids and I have my dad to talk to as a soundboard, it's just a different perspective. And I think he does a good job with it. And sometimes when you're younger, you don't realize that.

And as you get older, you're like, oh, I'm glad I had that. And I'm glad I had someone kind of feed that into my ear and realize how important it is. It's just not the game of hockey. It's kind of everyone that's involved in the game of hockey and whether it's the training staff, whether it's the people working at the rink, everyone's in it together and we should treat everyone the same

and treat everyone as one big family. I wanted to ask you about, is there going to be a third generation of Stasneys in the NHL someday? I don't know. I just want my kids to have fun whatever they're doing. Yeah, good. I mean, you guys have kids.

You know how it is. It's just like they gravitate towards you love. And my son kind of just like doing whatever. And now he's gotten a little older. He's hanging out with Patrick's kids. And now it's just hockey, hockey all the time. And if he wants to have fun with it and learn and

keep getting better you know I'll push him that way but I won't force anything upon him and I think that's what my dad did with us I think first of all it's so hard to make it in professional sports in any sport so I don't think you should ever have the mindset I want my kid to be a professional athlete just because it's so tough I think if anything I want him to be involved in youth sports to get used to playing with a team. You learn a lot of stuff just from youth sports or team sports. And then one of my sons got me or my brother or my dad. There's a lot of people that can help him out

if he wants to play the game of hockey. But at the same time, you don't want to force anything upon him. And that's the way I had it growing up, and that's the way I want to be with my kids. Great stuff. What type of hockey dad do you think you'll be I'll be like my dad who just I remember my dad would always sit in the corners by himself and I never understood it now I understand why because no one would bug him and he just watched the game I think when he was there he just wanted to watch me play and watch

the game I think if he sits with all the you know all the other parents they're always asking questions whether it's youth hockey or junior hockey or college. They're always asking him questions. He doesn't mind it, but I think when the game is happening, he just wants to watch me play and watch our team play. So even when it's NHL games, when we're in St. Louis, rarely he comes to the games. He'd rather watch at home, which I understand,

because then he can watch everything. When he goes to the games, there's always someone kind of trying to ask him questions and i think people realize now that when the game goes on you know he gets zoned in so i don't talk to him when it's intermission you can ask him whatever you want but he was also good at like i said you know my dad's my mentor the guy i respect the most as i've gotten older now i've gotten even closer with him it's just cool dynamic but he's very rational. He was very stoic about things where if something needed to be said, he'd almost wait a couple hours and then say it. He was never emotional about things.

And I think he was good about that with me and my brother and my sisters, whether it was things we did away from sports or things we did with sports just because he didn't want to get caught in the emotion and overreact. You know, I always loved watching your dad play. I was born in 1970 so I remember him coming to the NHL and you know when you talk like that the one thing I really remember and I happened to be there when he talked about it was at the Olympics in 2002 when they had that qualification and the players couldn't go join their their countries right yeah they're still playing yeah

because they were still playing you couldn't go until the main round and you know Slovakia he he sat on the bench and then he played and uh I just remember how mad he was after like just saying like you don't understand how important this is for us and how we need this I just admired the way he handled it like just you never heard him get too mad but I knew in that moment that it was important to him because he was mad about that. It was something I remember. If you're ever going to try to be something, you have to carry yourself like that. I always liked that about him. Like I said, I think for him, too, he's proud of where he's from, especially once Slovakia became its own independent country.

For him, it's always been you know how's he god family friends and then you know his country where he's from you know i think he's very proud of that and every country has ups and downs where they were but i think he always has an idea of of how to represent it the right way and how to represent whether it's you know the country you're representing or it's representing the last name on your back there's always something to it and there's always a reputation to uphold and i think for him you know he always has very high standards you know he was um in an era because I'm the same vintage as Elliot and I remember you know the first time I think you and I have talked about this the first time I ever heard about your dad was before the 1976 Canada Cup and my dad sat me

down and talked about Stastny and Zorilla and all these players we're going to see playing for Czechoslovakia. And that was still the time when there was like a mystique about players from over there and we never got to see them here. And players like Nedimanski trickled in and etc. Richard Farda all the way and a lot of Swedes came over. But that was so much of a different time. Like how much has your dad told you about, you know, the mid seventies and, you know, the 76 tournament and coming to North America where there was a,

you know, he existed in sort of legendary status even before he got to the NHL. Yeah. Like I said, I don't know if I told you, like a lot of the stories I hear aren't, cause I've never thought about asking him that, but I've heard a lot of different stories,

whether it's, you know, like the Olympics or the Canada Cup or different Olympics. So sometimes I'm like, I don't even know if he's talking about the late 70s or early 80s or late 90s. The eras or the years kind of jump around. But for example, my family is at my in-laws this weekend for Easter. They're all there. And I guarantee there's someone asking my dad a question about something about 1976 and then that's where like me and my brother would be like kind of listening and kind of learn something new about it he's very quiet about he doesn't he's very humble doesn't i mean if you know him really like you know we can jab

at him but like i think he's humble keeps himself very quiet doesn't really let out a lot unless he trusts you a lot but a lot of times it's at parties where we have family friends especially my buddy's dads would ask questions like this and then for me as i got older i got to appreciate and i would kind of listen and be like oh wow i never knew that and then maybe i'd piggyback on that question down the road and learn more about it is there a story about your dad or your uncles that you like the most or interested you the most no i always laugh at like uh because they have a record right from my dad and anton for most points on the road remember

they had like eight points in washington or something every time it pops up like it pops up on twitter my sister will like send a group chat it's like oh anniversary of like you know most points on the road he's like yeah but then we had four points the next night and three points you know like something like that it's like we played back-to-back games. I'm like, geez, he still remembers all this. It's kind of like me. It's like, you remember all these, you played so many games that happened so long ago. He still remembers like where they were. Like somehow he's like, I think we're coming off a back-to-back or playing a back-to-back. And then we still accumulated a few more points. Did they talk about that? Like, no, dad, they just talk

about one game. Enjoy it. I wanted to ask you about Winnipeg. You were traded there, and you went back there. I remember your press conference at the end of last year, and I always love the honesty. We want people in hockey to speak from the heart, and then you can't criticize people if they speak the truth. We've got to be held accountable, whether it's player on player, and we've got to have more respect for each other.

And when you don't have that, when you don't care about the teammate next to be held accountable, whether it's player on player, and we got to have more respect for each other. And when you don't have that, when you don't care about the teammate next to you, potentially, and you just care about, you know, what you're doing or certain individual things, you know, that kind of starts beating the game. I was wondering, did you get any pushback after everything you said at the end of last year? No. I mean, maybe on Twitter or stuff, but I'm not on Twitter. No, I think people are like – more people are like,

I'm happy you said it. Because like you said, sometimes people are thinking it. Sometimes it's just – I think it was just frustrating because I think we knew we had so much potential and it was just – we just couldn't get there. And then obviously we had coaching change. And then I think you're still dealing with COVID a little bit. So that was frustrating.

Then you'd have canceled games. And it was a long winter that year too. It was like the most snow they had. So there's a lot of factors that played into it. And I think sometimes younger guys, you can't say stuff like that. And sometimes you're just honest. You got to be honest. And like I said, I've always had a good relationship with the media guys

and your relations just because i've been treated with respect i'll treat them with respect and you know it just is what it is it wasn't i didn't think i said anything crazy you know but like i said because you're in a hockey market in your canada maybe got blown out of proportion a little bit but no there's no pushback at all and like i said if i if there's anything i ever said in public i'd always say it to the players first or to the management you know there's never oh i'm gonna say something public but i won't it to the players first or to the management. You know, there was never, oh, I'm going to say something public, but I won't say it to the players. It was stuff that, you know, we've talked about

or I talked about with Chevy and just at near meetings. And that's what I like about there. You know, at the end of the year, Chevy's honest with everyone. He's like, hey, just here's my thoughts, here's your thoughts. What can we do to be better? What can change? What should we change? What do you think here?

What do you think there? And he asks everyone like that. And I like the honesty that they have there. This has been great thanks so much best of luck in the playoffs thanks for always making time for us

alright thanks for having me guys hope you enjoyed the interview with Paul Stastny you can enjoy the entire interview on the Sportsnet YouTube channel and Jeff

with that yes I know Amo really wants a good 92-minute podcast tonight, but we're going to give him a break because it's 2.54 and my stomach needs a

cheeseburger. Oh, you got a growl on now, Elliot? You're not doing the 3 o'clock growl, are you? I've got the 3 o'clock growl. I'm hungry. Alright. Poor Am hungry. All right. Poor Amel. Like at the beginning of the playoffs,

he said, you know what? We'll do more podcasts, but they'll be shorter. They'll be like 20 minutes, 30 minutes. Yeah. Well, for once, we actually told the truth. We didn't lie.

90 minutes. Yeah. No, finally. Finally, we got you what you wanted, Amel Delich. We got you what you wanted. And today, we'll leave you with a UK-based band who started making music to try to recreate songs

of some of their favorite records. Will Turner and Georgie Fuller make up the band The Heavy Heavy. Great name. And the two aren't afraid to mix genres with their reverb-drenched sound. From their latest album, Life and Life Only, here's The Heavy Heavy with Desert Rain on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. The evening that we only thought we knew Oh yeah. Okay.

Oh, you can go grab your cheeseburger. I can do this. No problem. Okay. Thanks very much, guys. Have a good night. All right. See you, Rich.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye.