32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Should They Do It Again?

Episode Date: November 2, 2021

The League has spoken. The NHLPA is speaking. Kevin Cheveldayoff will speak soon. Jeff and Elliotte discuss the press conference held by commissioner Gary Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly on Monday and provide some details around the executive board meeting held by the NHLPA. Music Outro: Michael Wilford – Rattle My Bones (ft. Sail Cassady) Listen to the full track by Michael Wilford here This podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman. Audio Credits: Sportsnet The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates. If you think you are at risk of sexual violence or might have experienced sexual violence, tell someone you trust. You can also get help by: contacting one of the provincial crisis linesgoing to the nearest Sexual Assault Centrecalling the policeviewing these resources provided by RAINN Learn about more places to get help if you are experiencing violence of any kind.

Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast brought to you by the first ever GMC AT4 lineup. Elliot Friedman, Jeff Merrick, along with you. As we record this, it's been a number of hours since Gary Bettman and Bill Daley spoke. We'll get into the shorter strokes and some of the things that the commissioner and deputy commissioner touched on here in a couple of moments, Elliot, but what did you think of the whole thing, first of all? I thought it lacked empathy. I'm glad you went there right away, because here's what I've been telling people. I've done a couple of radio shows and TV hits. A moment like this needs empathy and needs compassion, and that's what the expectations are. But we're dealing with two lawyers that are concerned with other lawsuits and are speaking very much

like lawyers. I really don't know what I expected out of it, but after it was done, I remember saying to myself, what did you expect it to sound and feel like? Retrospectively, I should have looked at it and said, these are going to be very measured, lawyerly responses to every single question. They're going to be on the defensive from the get-go, and they were. That's why I can't help but think as we tape this podcast on November 1st, 2021 at 10 40 PM. I can't help, but think we're at a tense, a transformative moment for the league.

The league is under siege. And not only because of the fallout from Kyle beach, but also from the way this was handled. This made it worse. And one of the things that happened was bringing up Akeem Alou and saying the investigation was done. The investigation has been completed. Next steps, we're in touch with A the team's representatives with respect to next steps coming

from that investigation, if any. There have been no recent communications in that regard, but the investigation is done. And then having his lawyer tweeting that, nope, there's nothing here. You only open up another wound that really angers people so all of a sudden i think we're at a huge crossroads and we know that we're all expecting more parts of this story to come down including kevin cheval de off and mark chipman as early as Tuesday afternoon. And it just feels like everything is on edge. Like there's already been enormous change. The Blackhawks, Joel Quenville. But all of a sudden, if you were to tell me there's going to be more

at the league level, at the players association level, like a lot of times people say, well, this person should be fired or it's time for a new commissioner or it's time for a new head of the players association. All of a sudden it feels like all of this is kind of here and not on the schedule it was supposed to be, but this is where we are. And to be honest, if I was the commissioner, I'd almost consider doing another press conference and just saying,

okay, we've got to show a lot more empathy towards this because everything that came out of that just hit the wrong tone. But the problem with that is Elliot, if I can interject here, you only get one shot to do that though. You know, you only get one chance to respond and address. And then the second one looks more theatrical as if you're trying to clean up whatever messes you thought you left behind. I don't think you have to be theatrical, Jeff. I think you can be subdued.

I think you can be compassionate. But do you not see the point that people have already seen the first one? Yeah, I do. But that doesn't mean you can't go and hit reverse and say, all right. The problem with it is, though, what's the one thing that people are looking for right now? Authenticity. Are you genuine? Are you real? are you authentic obviously i can't speak for everybody but my instinct on that is they've put their foot forward and they've put their face forward

and as people look for authenticity if they don't find it the first time you present how you feel about a situation, they're going to feel, okay, was that one just the focus test to see if it worked? And we'll try again tomorrow? You know what I mean? I don't know that, listen, we live in a very media savvy generation, a very media savvy era right now. I just don't know that people will buy it. I don't think it's the wrong thing to do. i never think it's the wrong thing to clarify yourself i never think it's the wrong thing to show compassion towards people i just know if your desired goal is to project more compassion after that press conference on monday it's going to be tough the next day to say

what i was really trying to say was this. No, you know what? I don't think you attack it like that. See, like this is the way I look at it. So your fans aren't going to be happy with that, right? A lot of your media is not going to be happy with that. How do you think your sponsors are going to feel about that? Same. Exactly.

You don't go out and say, what I meant to say is this. You go out and you say, we didn't do that right. Here's how we're going to do it right. For example, Sheldon Kennedy. We're going to reach out to anybody who's interested in working with us. You know, Sheldon's terrible experience was not at the NHL level. We've been focused on what we have to do for the NHL players and personnel. But certainly Sheldon has an interest in working with us,

if Sheldon has an interest in working with us, particularly as we seek to set up a network that can provide access for anybody involved at hockey at any level, we would be more than welcome to work with him and have his input. I hope they call them on Monday afternoon and say, we did that wrong. and we've called sheldon kennedy and what role he wants we're going to create something the point that you made last week is here's a guy that's been failed by everybody from day one and here we are once again with another situation that has

failed sheldon Kennedy. After how many times has he told this will never happen again? We'll put safeguards in place. Make sure this doesn't happen again. This guy's there on Saturday night on hockey night in Canada. First of all, I don't know how he puts it on and stays in there and is still dedicated and still devoted. Like, Elliot, this guy won't get out of the batter's box. How many times he gets hit by the pitch.

He's still in there. And he's swinging and he's trying to help people and he's defending people. And he's trying to make the world better and safer. After he's been wronged and betrayed and let down so many different times, he's still there showing up and smiling. I know.

And putting a brave face forward and when you hear a flippant comment like well it didn't happen at the nhl level damn it god damn it that's offensive only if it happens at the nhl level does it matter after there's a big speech from the commissioner about setting up a network where people all over the world of hockey can chip into and, and get involved and, and, and, and report misdoings.

Then you come out and say, well, it didn't happen in the NHL. Let's remember that. No, thanks. That to me was pretty offensive because I've got all the time in the world for Sheldon Kennedy

and I think you do as well. That's the first thing I'm doing is I'm calling him after that and saying, we really said that poorly and we're going to fix it and we'd like you to be a part of it. You don't say this is what I meant to say. You said that was a really bad day. Like

you would never expect them to come back the next day and do another media conference, right? No. I think in our role, Jeff, we are used to people reacting that way to us because we drive them crazy. And they think some of the things we come up with are preposterous. But you can't do that with the public. Not after a situation like Kyle Beach's. I think people will put up with sarcasm or whatever in some regular situations. They won't put up with it after that.

That is the kind of media availability that people start talking about. Leaders have to go. One thing there that really stuck out for me from what you just said was this idea that here we are. And what do we talk about during covid what covid has done is is hit fast forward on everyone's life the schedules are all changed now the calendars are all changed now we thought we were going to get to a place in five years you just got there in a year and a half that just happened we were forced into this When's the last time we did a podcast where we were all sitting together?

For example, we have the technology now, we don't have to do it. We got there. We were heading there eventually. I can't tell you the last time I went in to do a radio show. I do it from my home office. We were all heading there.

We were all heading to places eventually. COVID sped things up and moved things forward. Everybody's schedule. We all feel like we got older. We all feel like we aged quickly. Some of us look like we age quickly. I'm sure I do. And I wonder within the NHL as well.

I'm not going to advocate for people losing their jobs by the way but i wonder how much it feels like there has been a a cultural turn and a cultural shift not saying that the people that were there before aren't valuable because they are but it seems as if the time itself may call for the league to have a fresh coat of paint. And again, I'm not advocating for people to get fired. I'm just saying at what point do we start to say this league needs something new? We always talk about how hockey is a young person's game and speed and it's all young and ideas are fresh and new. We always talk about how hockey is a young person's game and speed

and it's all young and ideas are fresh and new. And you can keep up for a while. But then at a certain point, you pass it on. I thought it today. And say you're at time to lead now. I thought it today. I use this line all the time. I only judge people as I judge myself.

I rewatched that today and I said, this has to be fixed. You can't live with that hanging in everybody's mind. And sometimes you can fix it, like I said, by getting out there and saying, this is on me and we didn't handle it right. And this is how we're going to fix it. Sometimes that works and sometimes that doesn't, but that's what I'd be doing. I'd be saying, we have to fix this. And if it means we have to do it again, we do it again. But you come with, okay, yesterday was Monday.

It's now Tuesday. This is what we've done. And I hope it's something. Okay, so Elliot, where in your estimation did things really go bad here? The $2 million, the explanation of the $2 million. Yep. And you know what? I do want to say this i didn't go in the queue because i knew that they would probably call on me now i will say this i i had some texts from people like why didn't you ask a question you should have asked a question

and like we were so behind on the story all of a sudden i'm going to show up now and act like a tough guy and maybe that's what some people want but like i said i have an issue with acting like a tough guy now we had lots of time to be one right so i don't know how people feel about that. Everyone is more than entitled to make their own feelings about it. But if you're going to be tough about it, be tough from the beginning. Like there were a lot of people on that call. Rick, obviously, Katie Strang, Jeff Hamilton in Winnipeg, who I think deserved the floor a lot more than I did. Put it that way.

The $2 million fine that you referenced. Yep. Here's what it seemed like to me. The minute after the commissioner justified that number, $2 million and said it was a substantial fine. It seemed to me as if he went about proving that it wasn't. The coyotes obviously were, were docked to very high draft picks for scouting combine violations. I think it was the Devils were fined more than the Blackhawks were for a cap circumvention.

I know you said $2 million is substantial. It is to me. It is to a lot of us, obviously. But do you feel that that's a significant punishment to this team? I do. The others that you refer to, different contexts, different facts. This was to make clear that the way the Blackhawks organization handled this matter was not appropriate, even though that ownership was not aware. And it was also a message to the rest of

the league that you need to make sure your organization is functioning properly on these matters. The one thing that I kept circling back to as I went over my notes after all of this was... You mentioned that the Blackhawks first notified the NHL about potential litigation last December. Why was action not taken in the five months between when you found out about that and when the lawsuits were filed? Probably primarily because of the nature of the heads up, which is there's a potential civil litigation. We've looked into the matter and there's no merit to it. That's why. But it had no merit. If I'm the NHL, do I not look back on that and say, hold on a second,

you consider that as having no merit and that's only going to be a $2 million fine that this entire league has been sent into chaos right now. And the fine is only $2 million. That's the one that I come back to. I'm like, hold on a second here. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. As I re-listened to that and processed that one,

I agree with you that you can't say that it had no merit and this comes out of it and the fine is only $2 million. Now, theory that was advanced to me today, and again, this is only a theory, and I thought it was worth repeating, is that how much do you think Chicago is going to have to pay in settlements here? I have no idea.

It's significant. I've tried to think about how much do we think Kyle Beach would have earned in his career? I don't even want to get too deep into that. No, I know. But I'm thinking like this is my thought process and then maybe double that and then who knows what else is still going to be out there.

Right? So I don't know. They're going to be settling two lawsuits here, right? And I don't know how insurance works. i don't know if insurance covers that or the team has to pay that there's going to be somebody who knows this better than me but one of the theories advanced to me was the blackhawks are going to be hammered so hard financially by the settlement that that's kind of their true punishment financially I don't know it's an interesting theory I always look at things

like this and say okay so does this become your precedent fine no for teams no I don't think it's a precedent I don't as a matter of fact one of the things i've kind of asked is in the last week you know i've been asking around would they put the penalties up somewhere like minimum five million dollar fine minimum one first round draft pick and people in this position of authority could lose their jobs just for argument's sake and i've heard that that's unlikely to happen so for that reason i don't think that the two million dollar fine becomes the max i think they want to leave options open for them okay so let's go through a couple of things that the uh the commissioner and bill daly spoke about after he talked about the fine for the chicago blackhawks he talked about his conversations

with joel quenville and kevin cheval day off um saying that he met with both joel quenville first and he addressed the issue of allowing him to coach on wed. We talked about it. It turned out we were right. Well, the thing that I found interesting and a little bizarre, I don't know why it would be even brought up, was the commissioner brought up that he has coached 867 games already. I knew I had to have Joel come in, and I had to have a very candid conversation with him. He was entitled to due process in terms of letting me hear from him directly and judge his credibility. We were dealing with something that was 11 years previous.

He had been on the bench, as I had indicated, for the past 867 games and I didn't want him to feel that he was being prejudged in any respect so really while it may have optically as you said not been the best look I was more concerned with the substance than the look he has coached 867 games already I don't know why that's relevant to anything. This is this matter and it was just found out and the report was just released. The commissioner said he didn't want to seem as if he was pre-judging Joel Quenville. Didn't want people to say he'd already judged him. Yet everywhere in every office and every place of employment, you know, when there is a grave situation like this, it is commonplace for people to step away until the issue is investigated and a decision has been arrived at.

Why should this be any different? I still feel the Panthers should have stepped in and said, Joel, the most important thing for you right now is to have a clear head when you talk to the commissioner tomorrow. We don't need you thinking about the game and playing the Boston Bruins and what are you going to do against the perfection line, et cetera. We need you thinking about 2010. You're going to be asked a lot of questions by the commissioner. Maybe talk to some people to jog some memories, get a good night's sleep,

and be as well prepared as you can be to talk to the commissioner. We don't need you coaching a hockey game. But everybody let him do it. As distasteful as that was for a lot of people. Why should that have been any different in this situation? This happens all over the world. Take a pause, step away, paid leave, while we investigate.

Is this not standard practice everywhere for age what am i missing here i don't know i don't have a good answer for you on quenville i wrote last week that he shouldn't be coaching that game i told you what i thought the answer was it turned out the answer to be right it was right it was a legal reason i don't agree with it i don't think anyone does. What else is there to say? They made what most people would think is a bad decision. All right, Kevin, shovel day off then. The one thing that I found bizarre

because I thought it was irrelevant completely, I don't know why they would even try to frame it this way, is when the commissioner said, you know, was talking about the limited authority that Kevin Sheveldayoff had, the bit player that he was in all of this, when he, you know, for whatever reason, made the point that the only person who actually put Kevin Sheveldayoff in that room on May 23rd, 2010 was Kevin Shevelday off. Kevin was such a minor player in this. And we discussed this with Reed Schar, who did the investigation for Jenner and Block, that if I have this correct, and Bill will correct me if I'm wrong, when they were doing the investigation, the only person who placed Kevin in the room for the May 13th meeting was Kevin. Everybody else either forgot or didn't acknowledge that he was there. He had been with the Blackhawks for nine months. He was an assistant general manager with fairly limited responsibilities. This was not something that he not only had no responsibility for, that based on what was available to him in his minor relatively position at the time, he had no reason to believe that anything other than the right things were going on. The only thing I'd add is the report did not suggest what exactly was said at that meeting. It's clear they talked about an inappropriate relationship, but the extent of that relationship and what was involved, according to several people at that meeting, was not raised.

So Kevin wouldn't have had reason to know how significant an event we're talking about happened. The question is, was he in the room or not? Not how many people remember that he was in the room. The question is, was he in the room? If the answer is yes, then move on. Well, what am I missing? This story that was confirmed today

that I had heard was that Sheveldayoff was the one who put him in that meeting. And you remember last week when we talked about the witness who helps with the investigation? I've wondered about that ever since. The story I had heard was that, I don't want to say all of the other people who are in the meeting didn't remember him there. I think it was most of them. And I heard that Sheveldayoff actually put himself in the room. I don't know if he was interviewed first and the other people didn't remember, or the other people were interviewed first and then he came and said, I was there. I don't know

the answer, but I do believe something like that happened. And Bettman confirmed it. He said he was in there. So I wondered if immediately that put him in a better light with the investigators in the league. You know, he's going to speak as early as Tuesday, depending on the owner's health. And I do think Mark Chipman is smart to say, I have to be there because Chipman backed Shevelday off during this process. I think he has to be there too. Like, obviously you heard the questions

and you know what this is going to be like in Winnipeg. Nobody's going to be satisfied with that. But I do believe that played a role. Let me circle back on Quentin for one final question that I have that's still out there. And I legitimately don't know the answer to this. Is he still getting paid? I don't know.

And if so, by who? Don't forget, Calgary had to pay Bill Peters. Correct. So I look at precedent. I'm assuming Florida is paying him. Is Stan Bowman still being paid? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that either.

I don't know. You know, the other thing about shovel day off is there's still one important vote left here on him, the fans and sponsors of the Winnipeg jets. There's two courts. There's the actual court and there's the court of public opinion. Yes.

And I've heard that there's been some unrest there. I also think there's been unrest among the NHL sponsors. That's who forces change, though. But I think Winnipeg, I think the fans and the business partners there, if they're really upset, they could have an impact. And we'll eagerly listen to what Kevin Chevaldeoff has to say, Elliot. One other thing here, the NHL Players Association. Executive board meeting on Monday.

This is a statement that was released after it. On the NHLPA's executive board call today. Don Feer recommended that an independent investigation be commenced by outside legal counsel in order to review the NHLPA's response to the Kyle Beach matter. The executive board is currently voting on this matter. Your thoughts on this one? A little bit this one a little bit surprised a little bit surprised you know the players that there'd been some connection with they were really mad i know you mentioned that on saturday night jeff that they were really angry oh yeah fear apparently said that he doesn't believe that he wouldn't have acted if he was told the allegations were as serious as we now know they are like one of the things jeff that you and i had talked about

off air last podcast is you may not remember the specifics of a conversation from 10 or 11 years ago. But if you were told that, what we now know about Kyle Beach's situation. You'd remember having it. You'd remember having it. And I think that was his point of emphasis was, I just don't believe that I wouldn't have acted on that. So one of the things that one agent told me, and I think he's a pretty respected agent is this might not be what people want to hear,

but we have to slow it down so that we can really figure out what happened. And it appears as if that way of thinking has won the day and so then if we look at this we say there is one more step now until the player reps make a decision about the future of their union if they end up going this route, the independent investigation. After that, it's decision time. I mean, these reviews, they can take a while. If your whole point is to do this thoroughly, it's not short. The review was announced in Chicago the first week of June, and we got the results the last week of October. that's four months so i don't know if

it would take longer or shorter you know it's not a short thing but the one thing here and we talked about this on saturday and that is you know would they move to remove don fear and the idea was hold on a second don't want to throw the NHLPA in chaos here because there's no obvious replacement. As this review goes on, do you think the PA concurrent to that review looks at some type of transition program or looks to identify someone that could take over eventually?

Maybe behind the scenes, but what this says to me is they're going to do this first. Okay, Elliot, this story continues and all of these stories continue. Thanks for joining us on 32 Thoughts, the podcast, once again. We thank you for sticking with us while we do this story. Taking us out today, an artist we featured last season, and he's back with a new track. Michael Wilford is a Victoria-based songwriter whose song Scotch was a finalist in the People's Voice section, the blues category of the 2021 International Songwriting Competition.

With his new track, here's Michael Wilford featuring Sail Cassidy with Rattle My Bones, hazy eyes, the west coast in flames But all I know, they rattle my bones and I'm not sure what else to say There's a ghost in my closet, he's trying to haunt me In a most peculiar way There's a ghost in my closet Don't know what he wants but I might just ask him to stay It's a cloudy cold night The ghost is a nice surprise I was just getting lonely again But there's a ghost in my closet

He's trying to haunt me He rattles my bones, he rattles my bones away The boarded doors, the dead neon The cancelled plans, the gentle autumn rain It's all good, all bad A smoky hoax, a lazy runaway Soft lips, sleeping eyes In a bed so far away What a fool, what a guy

And I'm not sure what else to say There's a ghost in my closet He's trying to haunt me In a most peculiar way There's a ghost in my closet Don't know what he wants but I might just ask him to stay It's a cloudy cold night

The ghost is a nice surprise I was just getting lonely again But there's a ghost in my closet He's trying to haunt me He rattles my bones, he rattles my bones away I've been haunting me like my mind haunts the streets in my rear view I've been haunting me, I'll take the chains but I can't bear the truth I've been haunting me like the eerie beetle on deck too When I close my eyes, you know

I wish it was you I wish it was you