32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Stupid Sexy Friedman

Episode Date: January 27, 2025

In this edition of 32 Thoughts, Kyle Bukauskas and Elliotte Friedman unpack the Mikko Rantanen trade from all angles. After looking at the Avs side of things they delve into Carolina pushing all their chips in (22:00) before finally analyzing the Blackhawks role in all of this (34:52). Afterwards, Kyle and Elliotte discuss how the Rantanen trade ripples throughout the rest the NHL and impacts how other teams attack the trade market (41:57). Kyle and Elliotte talk about Alex Pietrangelo pulling out of the 4 Nations to "tend to an ailment" and how the league will treat this withdrawal (45:31). The fellas talk about the Will Borgen contract extension (55:00) and this week's Team We Don't Talk About Enough  focuses on the Minnesota Wild (59:19). The Final Thought keys in on the battle of Ontario in Ottawa over the weekend (1:06:00). Kyle and Elliotte answer your questions and respond to your voicemails in the Thought Line (1:17:35).In the final segment Kyle and Elliotte take a moment to reflect on the career of one of Elliotte's favourite actors, Paul Newman (1:43:32).Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates

You threw out the suggestion last pod about a new segment potentially Called we don't talk about your team enough through It threw it out to our listeners To let me know specifically who we aren't talking about enough. We got a few How how full was your box? That came out really badly How full were your box? That came out really badly. How full were your DMs?

Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented by the GMC Sierra AT4X. Dom, Elliot, and Kyle with you and Frej. It's nice at the conclusion of conference championship weekend of the NFL as we congregate here to put this episode together Not have a horse in the race you and I our heartbreaks Happened well in advance clear minds clear hearts as we gather for our conversation here today. How are you doing? That was a great football game Great football game again on Sunday night Bill's Chiefs and you know I grew

up a Jordan fan he's my goat other people in different eras look at different people in the NBA and when I see Josh Allen the Bills against Mahomes like you look at Mahomes history the he's never been anywhere lower than the AFC championship game and he's got a chance to win his fourth Super Bowl. He's got second most wins for all NFL quarterbacks in the playoffs and he hasn't, he's not even 30 years old yet. That's like, you know what that's like? That's like the Reggie Miller Pacers against Jordan all those years, the Patrick Ewing Knicks against Jordan all those years. The Patrick Ewing Knicks against Jordan all those years. It doesn't make Josh Allen or the Bills any less.

It's that you are facing a Mount Rushmore quarterback at the top of his game. And it's not because you're bad, it's because he's so good. I swear to God though, thought Kyle that when they only kicked a field goal when the Bills held them to a field goal on that last KC score I thought the Bills were going to win. I thought they were going to drive down the field and they were going to win. I was actually surprised as good as the KC defense is I was actually surprised they didn't. Steve Spagnola strikes again in the clutch for the Kansas City defense is, I was actually surprised they didn't.

Steve Spagnola strikes again in the clutch for the Kansas City defense. Yeah, it was great drama again and great drama this weekend across the National Hockey League. And what we should mention. So who's your early Super Bowl pick? Because Barkley looked unbelievable. I will say it's so it's funny now that I've lived out Ontario way for over a decade now The Bills were never a team I thought much of growing up partly because you know they weren't very good when I was growing up and just

Geographically you didn't see them very much on on the TV, but I have grown a soft spot for them So I would have been great to see them Try to slay the dragon over this past weekend. But I think Chiefs is where my head's at right now, early on, just under two weeks prior to the big game. All I heard there was, I never think about the Bills. That's all I heard there. I just set a growing soft spot for them over the years.

I stopped listening before that part. No, I mean, how can you go against the Chiefs? You know who I learned really hates the Chiefs? Who's that? Renaud Lavoie. He's big into the conspiracy theories. When they released the JFK files in a couple weeks I know Renault he's not gonna have time to do anything because

he's gonna be going through those he really believes in the the chief's conspiracy there's no question about that there's a lot of people out there that really think that league is fixed fixed fixed for Kansas City once again the Super Bowl logo colors match the matchup itself yeah Renault is a big Bears fan so yeah he's always that who it is I I figured for sure he was like some because he's a Yankee guy so I figured he was like the Cowboys or something like that he said not even close. I OK. Bears it is. OK. Love you, Renault.

Love to Renault. So we've got drama on the gridiron and really good drama on the ice and off the ice over the last few days here at Elliott. So we should probably start with, man, that knee knocker of a trade Friday night with Miko Rantinen and Taylor Hall and Martin Hall and Martin HS and Jack Drury and three teams involved had to have been one of the biggest shock value trades we've seen in a while.

I mean the Kachuk-Hubert-Odeal a few summers back, that one, remember, got everyone going kind of nowhere. That was one of the ones I thought about. But, you know, it was incredible to be on the surface reacting to everything happening on Friday. For you, what was it like kind of in the underbelly and trying to get to the bottom of what was all going on and what eventually happened? So I think to me, as you said, just a huge trade between two teams that could win the Stanley Cup. Like how many times do you see a trade happen in mid season between two teams that could

face each other in June? It's not out of the realm of possibility that Colorado and Carolina could play in the Stanley Cup final and how many times do you see two teams in that position make that kind of a trade during the season? Yeah it's not often. I mean I think about like in season yeah I was thinking like Subban Weber but that was the off season. You've got me there. Like it's especially again, of this magnitude. Yep.

You do not see this. You do not see this. And the second thing that really stood out to me, Kyle was the quotes from the Avalanche players after they lost to Boston. Like, you could see McKinnon was dejected. Jared Bednar, and he had to have a decent idea it was coming he was shocked absolutely shocked maybe I should say better about Bednar he had to have a decent idea it was a possibility he had to know that there was a chance that this was going to occur. And still he was shocked even you know, Chris McFarland, who met with the media before the game in Boston that day. And you know,

he and let's, let's be serious about this, like Joe Sackett, he's not as public figure or public facing as he used to be. But he still plays a very, very big role in these decisions. Like McFarland looked shocked, like everybody looked stunned. And it's very clear to me from, especially some of the things McKinnon said, that the players felt this was going to go down like Gabriel Landiskoff's free agency went down. One of the sayings I like to say is the surest predictor of future behavior is past behavior. And in this case, I think aside from the front office of the avalanche, that's what everybody

was thinking. I would suspect that's what Bednar was thinking. And I have zero doubt that that's what the players were thinking even some of the Former Avalanche players they thought this was going to be the exact same thing as it was with Landis Gogh They kept him at the time They had a great team. They kept them because they thought they could still win with them They took their chances they went down right to the wire and Landiskoch signed. And I remember the next year, Nathan McKinnon came to the NHL

and Players Association media tour. And one of the first things he said was I knew he was going to sign the whole time. So I have zero doubt, zero, that that's what Nathan McKinnon is thinking. It's going to play the same way. We're going to go., we're gonna take our shot at the Stanley Cup, we could win and then ranting in signs the team makes it all work and I don't think he believed that there was a chance it wasn't going to happen until they told him the trade was happening. I really believe that and I'm guaranteeing he's not the only one. You know what I think happened here is that I think like I've said I think the calculus

of the NHL has changed with the Leon Dreisaitl deal. I had one Avalanche fan who said to me, you know, sent me a note and he said, you know, you said in the summer You thought he was staying and I did a hundred percent and other teams like I go by, you know, what's the noise out there? What do you what do you guys think and and they really thought he was gonna stay and then I remember Some of the same people who told me that he was going to stay after dry saddle signed the eight times 14 They were like look out That the landscape has changed and that is true It is is definitely changed in the NHL since that deal was done

We've gone from McDavid 12.5 to McKinnon 12.6 to Matthews 13.25 to dry saddle 14 And the cap is going up and that's another part of this conversation that we'll have in a minute. Leon Dry Settle's representatives are the same ones that are representing Ratanin and they wanted to be up somewhere near that number. It didn't necessarily have to be 14, but I think it was up there. And as I reported on Saturday night, the Colorado Avalanche told him that they would make him the highest paid winger in the NHL. And the 11.64 of Panarin is that number right now, who's one of the highest paid players in the NHL. Behind Matthews, McDavid and Dry Seidl starting next

year and they told him we will put you above Panarin so Ratner would become the highest paid winger of the NHL but they told him he would not be above McKinnon and as I said on Saturday I believe the number was 11.75. The Avalanche have not said anything about that. They said they wouldn't comment. The agents for Rantan said they would not comment. But I believe that was the Colorado's final number was 11.75. And when the answer was no, or that wasn't going to get it done at

least not right now you know is a they'd said we're we're gonna make the move and you know Eric Tulsky who's the GM in Carolina he came out and said they'd been having the discussions for a while, but I think it got really, really serious very recently. Like when he talked about they'd been having conversations going back last summer because of the nature situation, I don't think Colorado was that serious then. Even a few weeks ago when they were having those conversations, I think Colorado knew it was possible they were going to have to make a decision and that they wanted to know what their options were out there. But I really don't think Colorado made the final, they had a meeting with Ranton in this week. And after that meeting, I think that's when Colorado

made the final decision. We're going ahead with this. We're making the move. And I'll be honest, as I said, it caught me by surprise. Not that he was getting traded. I really believed, I think at a conversation off camera with Nick and Justin, after a leaf regional that I thought Rantin could be traded, I would say that was around Christmas,

but I thought it was gonna be at the deadline. I really believed it would go right up to then. And I think what Colorado decided was they didn't want to risk it getting that close. I think they wanted to make the move. I don't think they wanted to risk an injury, whether at the four nations or at the deadline. I think that Colorado felt also if they decided to make a trade the longer they waited the more leverage they would lose and I just think they decided that now was the time and you know one of the things about the McKinnon cap the internal McKinnon cap and you know you can tell McKinnon said

on on Saturday he doesn't care if people make more money than him, which is a great thing to say, because you're always going to have people who make more money than you. But I think Colorado and Ratan's case said that wasn't going to happen. Now, I think the interesting thing about that, Kyle, is if they didn't have McCarr, then we might be having a different conversation. But they do have McCarr, and I think they've decided and they know that McCarr will be above McKinnon. Right. So-

McKinnon jokes will be at 20 million. Yeah, but that's the thing. I think they know that that's going to be the case or something up there. So you're going to have and McCarr's extension, he can sign not this summer, but next summer. He's got two more years in his current deal. So he's eligible for an extension in the summer of 2026. So I think if you only have one guy who's gonna leapfrog McKinnon, I think Colorado handles that, but they've got two. And I just don't think Colorado believed,

like if you look at them now, they're already thin, right? They're a super talented team, you know, Natchez and Drury, I mean, Rantin're a super talented team you know Natchez and Drury I mean Rantin is a super stud and I think a lot of those teams in the Western Conference are really happy to see him go but they're still you know a hell of a team but they're a bit thin and I think that they looked at it if they go two guys over McKinnon They felt they were never gonna solve that problem So that's why I think Colorado made the move and I and I think that the McKinnon cap

Yes was in was in effect for Rantan but it will not be in effect for Makar I think Rantan was shocked too. Obviously I think Rantanen was shocked too, obviously. I think everybody was surprised. Some were surprised they even did it. I wasn't surprised they did it. I was more surprised that they did it now. Yeah, me too, because six weeks away from the trade deadline. And as you say, this is a team that has at least a chance to win, although the roster, as you mentioned, is a little bit top heavy but

you don't completely reconstruct your goaltending mid-season if you're not trying to get better right now to try to win right now. I mean you go back to their comments after the game on Saturday and of course it's raw and emotional that's where it's at its most heightened because it's all so fresh from the trade that went down the night before But I wonder like going forward like do you think there's any concern from just the the lingering effect of now? Not having that piece part of that dressing room for this season in particular for a team that's trying to get back to at least somewhat close to the level they were a couple years ago and Going all the way at the Stanley Cup final a team that's still very much trying to win and not taking a step back

Yeah, I think there's a little bit of shock. There's no question about that, but I just think that team is too driven I think that you know McKinnon he's all about winning right and is he disappointed? Yes. Is he upset? Yes. But when the puck drops he wants to win and McCarr is the same way. So I think ultimately what he's gonna do is he's gonna focus on that. You know, Neches didn't have a great start on Saturday, but he was very effective on Sunday. You know, Drury is a solid player. He was young, getting better.

You know, it was interesting to me, like one guy said to me that, coach, actually, that the thing he's most curious about is, you know, Carolina plays so uniquely in some ways that, you know, whenever some of their guys get traded, sometimes it's not easy to move into a different team or a different system, right? But the one thing about Colorado is, you know, they're aggressive. They're a really aggressive team. Carolina's a really aggressive team. So that should help those guys a little bit, whatever tweaks they have to make. I just think that team

is all business and they understand guys come and guys go and Rantnan is not just a guy. Like he's a very big guy and a great player. But I think once the park, like some teams this year, like the Rangers this year, although they've started to put it behind them, they were really affected by what happened to them. Vancouver has, was, has been really affected by what's going on around them. I just don't see Colorado with those guys that they have there and the, as good as they are, I just don't see them letting that affect them it just doesn't suit McKinnon right now for all intents and purposes as the

captain because Lannis Goggs not there and he's just too hard driving to me and too demanding to me to allow that to happen in his room. So last one on the avalanche do you see Them going now back on the offensive I mean this trade gives them a little bit of cap relief not a ton but a little bit I think another million now in the bank to play with but to now do more between now and the trade deadline To try to bolster their lineup as they try to get better for what's to come in the spring they hope I Think they will I don't think they're done. They have some flexibility here. And I would expect them to be aggressive

with it. Like, I don't think they're taking a step back. I don't think they're saying, Oh, we're not going to win the cup this year or compete for it. I think they believe very much in who they are. And I expect them to be active and see how things play out. I, I just think the other thing too is, you know, it's hard to imagine, uh, how, how many players they could have traded for. If you're going to trade Rantnan, who's a top 10 player in the NHL.

Um, I don't think Natchez is on the same level. He's it's no insult. He's having a great year But you're aren't gonna get too many players like him in return for a guy like Rantan especially who's not signed and That's why I understand Why they did this at this time? I'll tell you something else someone said to me You know you you know you'll remember the last time that Renton and Siden extension, it was the same time as Marner in Toronto. And this person brought up to me and they said, this is an

example of the way the NHL kind of gets covered. It almost depends on where you are as much as anything else. Like the Marner negotiation at that time was a big negotiation in Toronto. And obviously Toronto is one of the centers of the hockey world and media. And so everybody's on top of that, right? And everybody knew that was a challenging and difficult negotiation.

And people wondered long-term what the relationship was gonna be like and you know We'll see how everything unfolds this year Apparently the last ranting in Avalanche negotiation was also very very hard and very very tense and You know this guy said to me that because it's Colorado and there's just not as much media there it to me that because it's Colorado and there's just not as much media there, the tense nature of that negotiation didn't get the same coverage or the same knowledge as the Marner one did. And he said to me that that played a role in all of this, that the last one was hard,

this one was hard, this one was hard and like I have no problem with players negotiating for their best deal and teams negotiating for their best deal. That's what negotiation is. But it just wasn't easy here and I think that that played a part of it and you know it's too bad. I see there's a lot of very unhappy Avalanche fans out there and you know I Rantan will land on his feet he's too good like he just will but you know I can sense like he you always know when there's something special between a market and a player

and it's very clear there was something special between Rantan and the Avalanche fan base very clear there was something special between Rantin and the Avalanche fan base. But, but again Kyle, if you win, you know, people, people figure it out and Colorado's goal is still to win and this is not the last we've heard of them this year. Okay on the Carolina front then, Elliot, I mean you mentioned they tend to play a little bit of a different way Rod Rendemort runs a pretty balanced bench there too. Sebastian Aho's their most used forward just over 20 minutes a game. Ranton was the second most used forward in the entire league behind McKinnon, his teammate. He was averaging 22 and a half minutes a night with Colorado this season. I'm fascinated to see how all that's gonna play out and where Bryndamore and the coaching staff kind of find the the best use forum and

how much ICCs as they get going because I mean they've got some pretty good players there in that lineup that they've had for a while now that they've kind of grown up together but Renton and I think is certainly a game changer like suddenly now this you know Lamborghini SUV shows up on your lot and it's like, okay, how often do I want to get behind the wheel of this thing? I think that's gonna be a really intriguing one to watch now, as he's in the fold in Carolina, of how Bryndenmore and company go about maximizing

the capabilities that have made him the player that he is. And Natures, what did Natures get in his first game for Colorado? A career-high 25 minutes. Like he saw the difference, right? Right. The shackles were off. Well, I think one thing the Carolina Hurricanes will tell Bryndamore is, we're in the sales business now, Rod. We're trying to keep this guy. So if you want to give him an extra shift or two, we won't be complaining about it You know I think that you know Ranton is the best player in the deal and

If you believe the rule that if you get the best player you win the trade. Well right now Carolina got the best player and now they have to sell him on staying there and After the trade was made. I had a few people tell me that if if you talk to Tom Dundin the owner of the Hurricanes and Eric Tulsky the GM of the Hurricanes you know one of the things they've talked about and they have good players they're like Ahos a really good player, Slavin is one of them I don't even know if you can still call him underrated because he's won awards but he just doesn't get the attention for for how good he is and they're a really good team a consistently good team but they've

talked about getting a star like one of the top five to ten players Dundon especially in the NHL they've never really had that before you know you could argue maybe Eric Stahl at one point, but especially since Dundons own the team, that really hasn't been the case. And he kind of chased after that. He went after Eichel who ended up in Vegas and has become one of the best players in the league. Like when those players become available, he tends to be really involved with it. So this is a star.

They have a top five to ten player in the league on their roster, and they are going to try to do what they can do to keep him. Now, Tulski pointed out on his conference call with the media on Saturday that they didn't have the cap flexibility last year that they do have this year and Carolina is in a great cap situation and they can go places too with with ranting in that they couldn't do last year and weren't willing to do last year I think also with Gansel last year like Gansel kind of gave them a number and the Hurricanes knew that was there and they didn't get there until the day before the draft and by that time Gensel was like no it's too late.

So I think you always learn your lessons. I think you always say okay what went right for us what went wrong for us and this time they've went out and they've got ranting in early and you know they'll let them get acclimated but they'll put the press on they'll say Uh, okay. We're gonna do what it takes. They'll uh, I they'll throw a ton of money at them You know if you've looked at them recently, they've done deferred money with jarvis. They've done deferred money with slaving um, you know, i'm sure they'll talk about deferred money with Uh ranting in but you know the others tried the same approach again same agency with dry saddle and it didn't go anywhere So I'm not sure it's gonna work You know, but I think they are prepared to go to places that they've never gone before

to try to get him signed they have the advantage of the eighth year and we're gonna see if they can get to a number that will get it done. And you know I think you know people kind of look at the hurricanes as they're smart, they're creative, but they've never shown a desire to go into the stratosphere and I think they are willing to go there here. I just, we all got to find out what the number is. How high are they willing to go? What makes Ranton uncomfortable?

They know that going in, they're prepared to go in that direction. It's just the question is can they go far enough? And you know the thing about Dundon, like I'm a Star Wars guy, I love the old Star Wars movies. There's a great scene in the first movie where they're going through an asteroid field and C-3PO says to Han Solo, who's one of my favorite movie characters ever, Sir, the possibility of successfully navigating an asteroid field is approximately 3720 to one. Never tell me the odds.

I could just see Dunne in saying, never tell me the odds as he tries to get this done. And I think there are, because of what happened last year with Gensel, I think there are some people who are skeptical. I am curious to see this because I think they are determined to try and do it. But it's going to be, but they know it's going to be a big push. They know it's not where they've gone before. And I'm just curious to see the way it turns out. And if it's not done by March 7th, does Carolina sit there and say,

okay, we're comfortable with where we are. We're going through it, or is there any chance they say, oh, I don't know if we're going to be able to do this and maybe we turn around and flip them again. Like we'll see. I think there's a lot of great unanswered questions here. The other thing I would say about this too is whenever you're a first time GM, especially someone who comes from a different background like Tulski does,

I think that there's always this talk about rightly or wrongly, and it's like, you know, can we trust you to keep things private? And I don't like that. It's bad for my business. And like I said, I didn't see it coming as quickly as I did But this was definitely a situation like you find out things after there were a few teams kind of talking about ranting in Colorado had targeted a couple of places where they saw fits and it stayed quiet and I think that's a that's a good thing for Carolina. It didn't break until the end and By that time, you know, because the Hall thing kind of got out and he was part of the deal, there was no way anybody was going to keep it quiet. Like it was, it was coming out before the trade call, no question. All right. Well, what are the odds? The rest of the teams in the Eastern Conference, the

sweat stains on the shirts grew exponentially over the weekend. Like you imagine being the New Jersey Devils or the Washington Capitals or any of the other teams in the hunt in the East and you see that Friday night as you're picking out dessert after having a nice meal? Yeah that's a good question. That's one of the things that some people said to me is that, you know, what's the fallout going to be now? They think things are going to kind of loosen up a little bit. You know, the West teams, like I said, as good as Natchez is, and as good as Colorado

still is, there were some teams in the West who were like, you know, thank God we don't have to see that guy in the playoffs. I'll tell you a couple other things I think are interesting about this deal is number one, I don't think Colorado was against sending Ranton into the West. I heard they're one of those teams that's kind of like, we're going to make the best deal. And that was the best deal they got. But if the best deal had come in the Western Conference, I heard they weren't unafraid

to do it. And the other thing I heard was that at one point, Carolina tried to get a fourth team involved to make it to split the money maybe a bit more would have even made it even more impossible to understand. But that they tried, I heard they tried to get a fourth team in there. So I mean, imagine that loony bin. But anyway, the east. Yeah, I think you're gonna see some teams sit there and say, how do we answer this? I think there's a lot of I think there's a lot of teams that think they can win

I think the top teams are better in the West the East is more wide open You know what one of the challenges is is that? You know Carolina had a guy to trade that Colorado would say okay for rent and we'll do that You know, for example on on the last pod you know someone said to me Toronto we talked about Luke Cunningham they said well Toronto's got to aim higher than that and my answer to that is especially after this deal on Friday is what exactly does Toronto have to trade? You know they you know they they could in theory trade one of their young kids like a Minton or a Cowan, but I think their preference is to keep those guys.

You know, I think they do want to trade for someone with term if they can. But you know, I think some of these teams would like to do like, we talked about Marchand last pod, if Boston's in the race you know they're not trading him if Boston's out of it maybe but if they're in the race he's not going anywhere I I'm really curious about a couple of these teams you know Washington could be, I think this is, I spent a lot of time talking about them with someone on the weekend because they've had a great year, but you think about it, like they're talking to Thompson right now, I think they're talking to Lindgren right now, I think Chickron, they're waiting for some salary cap information before they go there.

But as good as Washington's been this year, depending on who they think they can sign, it's a real go for a year for them. Out of nowhere. Yeah, a couple people are really curious about that one. I think the other teams, Florida is really quiet and it's another team that doesn't get a lot of coverage. They're in a really, really tight spot cap wise. But I do have some people who told me they were kind of around on Taylor Hall. They liked him wouldn't have been easy for them

to do but they like the player and you know that's aggressive front office too again it's not easy for them to do anything but teams think they're but they are creative they are smart and teams are kind of like what they're wondering what they're cooking up down there I don't think the Rangers are done. I think they're still looking around. I do think we're gonna see some answers here but the one thing you kind of look at now is who has something to move. Like you can, you know, you can add rentals, you can, you can do things here or there, but you know, obviously you're not going to land anything as big as ranting and no one thinks, but who has something to move that could land them a big piece, like the

other potential pieces that are available. Like one of the teams said to me on Saturday, we can't add anything like that. And again, there's not many randins. We can't add anything like that. But now we're all looking at it and saying, what can we do? And's that's gonna be the big question over the next little while certainly will be okay can I ask you about Chicago's role yes yes because so they trade Taylor Hall to Carolina they retain half of rent and salary and are left with a third-round out of all of this. So criticism towards them as this was all coming out about how can they only be left with a third after the role that they played in this.

What's your read on that and ultimately the position that they were in through this whole transaction? Well, the first thing is I think that because their season is going so poorly, you don't get the benefit of the doubt, right? I think that's a big part of this. And I understand it. A lot of these things is perception. Oh, this is a front office that's having a good year. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt.

Or this is a front office that's not having a great year and the Blackhawks are not having a great year, well then we really don't give them the benefit of the doubt and I think there's some of that here. You know in these situations I always go to people and I said I joked about this on Saturday with like the nerds. I always go to them because they're really smart and they know more than me like what is the value of what they did? And you know what?

I don't think Hall had a ton of trade value. I really don't. I think they looked at the market. I actually heard they made a very legitimate attempt to sign him. Whatever offer they made I heard was legit. But I think Hall was ready to try to go somewhere else where he could win. Understandably. But I just heard the trademarking on him wasn't that great.

Like I'm not convinced they were getting a third rounder for him. The other thing here too is, is that, and this is not a small thing when you're not making the playoffs You don't have that playoff revenue coming in the decision they made You know Hall Was making a pro rated six million because they kept fifty percent of rant then He was making a pro rated four point six million. So actually save, someone did the math for me, they said they they save about half a million dollars.

And I know fans don't necessarily want to hear that but the organization will take that. In a year where you're not gonna make the playoffs and your attendance is down like it is in Chicago, if you come in and you say you know what we can make this move and save $500,000 to anybody out there who's run a business. That's not a small thing so those are the positives I guess they still do have one salary retention spot and Maybe they'll use that with Seth Jones or someone else we'll see but

the one thing that clearly happened here and it's been reported is that that when they agreed to retain on a player they weren't told who the player was until until the end. So in that moment, Kyle Davidson has a choice. He can go back on his word and say, no, it's ranting, then you have to give us more. Or he says, you know what, I gave you my word, you know what I gave you my word and I'll go through with it and You have to go with option B I Know there's some people out there is saying no No, you have to say it's ranting in I didn't know I you've got to give me more for that But once you give me your word

Because he knew that there were the the Hurricanes are gonna ask him to retain money but not on the play didn't know the name of the player okay but so would he at least known the dollar value or that give it away I guess who the player was no you know I don't I don't know the exact specifics okay I don't know the exact specifics but you can't go back and say, no, we're not going to do it. Now, you could definitely make an argument, Kyle, that maybe you should know who the player is before you do it. But once you've agreed to something, you can't go backwards on it. Lois, a boat's a boat, but a mystery box could be anything.

It could even be a boat. Not so fast, Lois. A boat's a boat, but a mystery box could be anything. It could even be a boat. No, no, no, not so fast, Lois. A boat's a boat, but the mystery box could be anything. It could even be a boat. You know how much we've wanted one of those. Another great Family Guy reference. Excellent. I was actually watching that one the other day.

You know, one other thing here about Chicago, I wrote on Friday in my breakdown of the deal that if Ranton gets the market, I could see Chicago being in on him. And I believe that. Like I think the outdoor game this year and how badly that went for them was a real eye opening moment for the organization. I think that one may change the course of history for the Blackhawks. Remember the last year they took a run at Gansel or they weren't interested in Gansel, they didn't get them. I think they take another big swing this year

and, and lost in all of this, that third round pick they got in the trade. Kyle, whose pick is that? It's their own, isn't it? That means that they can use it in an offer sheet. Right. Which is not and who knows? And who knows, right? But couple people I was talking to in the craziness of this whole thing said that detail really fascinated them. That they went back and got made a point of getting their own draft pick. And if they use that in a successful offer sheet somewhere, maybe this is going to look very different from the Chicago

perspective. Like you'll remember last year, what did St. Louis do? Right before they made those offer sheets, they made a trade with Pittsburgh to get their own pick back. And that way they could do the offer sheets. So I know the Blackhawk fans are mad now, but if that happens, maybe somewhere down the road they feel a bit differently. So the trails of that deal far from reaching their collective dead ends you're saying. We'll see. We'll see. I mean it's you always have to consider all of this stuff right? What does this mean? What does that mean? What loose ends exist?

All right so what does this mean for the rest of the league then Elliot because as you say if the Avalanche weren't willing to move past the Nathan McKinnon internal cap, but understanding and certainly, Rantinens Camp sure does, that the Dry Cytil contract changed everything and knowing where the cap could potentially be going over the next few years north of $100 million in the not too distant future. What does this mean for everyone else? So this to me is one of the more interesting parts of the story. You know we've talked a little bit about the cap, it's going up. Will we get multiple

years? Basically it won't be over a hundred million next year. I think next year, I thought 95. Now I'm going between 95 and 97 we'll see but in two seasons from now so the 26 27 season I think it's gonna be over a hundred and I just think there's some teams here who are not comfortable with this and who just feel whether it's because they're in a Canadian market and they get they make their revenues in Canadian dollars and they pay in US dollars or they're just not high revenue teams or they think that they're squeezing in they've squeezed as much as revenue as they can to their buildings as they already have

you know they're they just don't know that it works and look like a 50-50 split on record revenue it says that this is the way it's gonna go and some teams are gonna be perfectly happy Oh, yeah, we'll do this and you know, there's some fans of the high revenue teams and they say, you know They're like we we should have an advantage because we make the most revenue. Well, now's your time Because I think for the first time in the cap era, or the first time in a long time in the cap era, you're going to start seeing some tears. And you know, I'm not saying tears like crying tears, but tears like T-I-E-R-S. I think you're going to see some teams that are definitely going to be cap teams. And

I think you're going to see some teams that are still gonna spend a lot but they won't go to the cap and they will have internal budgets and I think Colorado sent a message that they are gonna be one of those teams that you know there's a limit to what they're willing to do and even though McCarr will soon be their highest paid player on AEV and he'll pass McKinnon they're not gonna do that everywhere. They're not going there. And I don't think they're the only ones. So I think for the first time in a long time, we're gonna see a league over the next couple years where there starts to be some splits. Some teams that are like, we can now flex our

financial muscle a bit more and we will be glad to do it and some other teams are like okay you know we know this is the world we're in but we're not going all the way to the top and sometimes I think when competitive juices start to flow they push you to places where you didn't think you were going to go because you can win or there's fan pressure and things like that but I do think legitimately you were going to go because you can win or there's fan pressure and things like that. But I do think legitimately we are going to start to see some tears here and Colorado's move on Friday, I think was was part of that. So we'll see how it all unfold. It's it's a pretty fascinating time. Because we haven't seen this in quite some time. So that was one big piece of news that was going to be tough to top over the next few

days. But an interesting one on Sunday out of Vegas, Alex Patrangelo, who had been named to Team Canada as part of the Four Nations roster, the team announced that he's pulling out of Four Nations because he is tending to an ailment as he prepares for the rest of the regular season with the Golden Knights. Now Petrangelo, he missed three games consecutively in November. Other than that, he's been in the lineup every game this season, including Sunday at home when they defeated the Florida Panthers so we're still about two and a half weeks till the first game of the tournament I mean you've said a few times now that they're treating this

kind of like an all-star game where if you can play the last game before the event you are expected to play so how does this all come to be for Patrangelo, the Golden Knights, and subsequently Team Canada? So Kyle, we're recording this podcast around midnight Eastern on Sunday night, this part of it anyway. And I have asked that for some clarification, does Patrangelo have to miss games? And at point in time as we record the pod I haven't received any answer and I kind of knew that might happen on a Sunday night.

So we'll we'll see what Monday brings but. You know a few teams had told me that it was indicated to them that it was like an all-star game Like you'd said and like I'd said before so we'll see where this goes the only other players we know of right now whose position in the four nations is in jeopardy are Jacob Markstrom and William Carlson who's also playing for Vegas and both of those players are clearly missing games like nobody's got any issue there. The thing about Patrangelo was that there was talk before the rosters were named that he wasn't going to play.

And when Vegas came through Toronto earlier this year, I asked him about it and he said, I'm healthy now. So that's not an issue. He didn't wanna talk about anything he'd been through obviously, but he just said, I'm healthy so that's not an issue but players get banged up like there's no reason to believe there's anything nefarious going on here no reason at all and I think it's perfectly understandable especially a guy who

plays as much and has a big role as Patrangelo could get banged up like that's a that's a huge loss for Canada. But as we record this pod at midnight on Sunday night, I am waiting to see for clarity if he's going to have to miss any NHL games. Like obviously he played on Sunday night, was in a big win over Florida. And you know, so it wasn't like they had to take him out of the lineup right away. We'll see how all this plays out over the next little bit. I know there's some concern in the sense that if Patrangelo says he wants to rest or wants

to, you know, deal with, doesn't want to play because, you know, he's got something which is perfectly legitimate. You know there's going to be other teams saying, well, wait a second here, like I've got a guy who's got something. I don't want him to play either. So I am curious to see how the NHL and the Players Association are going to deal with all of this. Alright, and it's funny because the same day that that happens, Drew Doughty speaks to the media for the first time since his injury, and he was asked about still the outside chance of maybe being a replacement for Four Nations, and he said he wants to play, doesn't want to rest. Like, what's the likelihood, assuming he gets back into the lineup for LA this week,

that there's maybe a member of Team Canada Management up in the press blocks watching the LA Kings for the next few games as they try to sort out where they go from here Well, you'll remember that we were in Los Angeles when Doughty got hurt. Yeah as we were I Still think we were supposed to go to Doughty's house that day and do an interview with him And I still think the main reason he got injured was he didn't want either of us on his property Right nowhere near Have any idea where he spends his downtime

You know one thing we did find out later was the team Canada called the Kings later that day and said, you know, what's his health situation? We're still very interested in him. Please keep us updated. So Doughty was very much on their radar, even though he got hurt. Now they have until the day before the Sweden game. So that's February 11th to announce

their replacement, but their first practice day is on the 10th and I was told on Sunday night that while they haven't made their final decision yet, they will announce the player or choose the player before they have to be in Montreal. So you're looking at the latest end of the first week of February and you know Doughty, Doughty as you said did his first scrum on Sunday so I think it's possible he plays Monday night in Detroit we'll see and you know he's gonna get a run here and to take a look at him and I know they really like him. I think the other guys whose names really stand out to me, Weger, no question about it.

He was on the bubble. Brandon Montour, no question about it. He was a guy that they have talked about and winning pedigree. They love guys with winning pedigrees and Montour has one. I think he's definitely on their radar too and the other guy I think they'll look at is I think Tanev from Toronto. I thought a little bit about Chikrin because of the year he's had you know but even though there's some flexibility there with some of their players, you know, Chickren is a lefty shot and Patranjali is a righty.

So I think you go with the righties. So you've got three of them we mentioned, Uyghur, Montour and Tanev. I could imagine Toronto wanting no part of Tanev there, just knowing that he's a bit of an older guy and You know, he's gonna eat pox for two weeks straight and every time somebody winds up you're gonna be like, oh god But I think he's on the radar. So we'll see what they decide to do here But there's I think how Doughty comes back could really influence this decision. It's funny, I was talking to somebody who's part of the Four Nations but not working for Team Canada

and he was like, yeah, we now we just need McDavid and McKinnon to pull out and we'll be in good shape. You know what's really funny too is one of the things I always do when I'm going through this exercise is just double check. I go to Google Images and I just double check, okay, Patrangelo, right hand shot, right? So all these people I'm talking about, are they all right hand shots too, at least to keep it the same? So you Google Patrangelo and Patrangelo comes up. You Google Uyghur and Uyghur comes up. I Google Chikran and Chikran comes up. I Google Tanev and Tanev comes up. And then you start going against some of the guys who can kind of play both ways. You Google Sennheim and Sennheim comes up

he's a left-hand shot but then you Google Theodore and a chipmunk comes up wondering where you were going with this yes like it's funny you go you go like okay Patrangelo, Uyghur, no problem. Right. Tanev, no problem. Montour. And then I did San-I, and then I did Theodore. Oh, there's one picture of Theodore Roosevelt, but the rest of them are all chipmunks.

The chipmunk outdoes the former US president. That's great. Yeah, every now and then Google's like, I'm going gonna need a little more clarity than that, please. Thank you. That's a big loss though for Canada. Patrangelo is, he's a great player and the other thing too is not only is he great but when the games get more intense and more emotional, he's an emotional intense guy but he's calm too. He shuts everything down. That's a big, big loss for Canada.

No question. Okay, keeping the defense theme going here quickly, news out of New York over the weekend. Will Borgen, the defenseman who they got in the Capo-Caco deal back in December, signed him to a five-year deal, 4.1 million AAV. Only 18 games with the Rangers now. Set to be a, was set to be a UFA this summer. I mean, Peter LaVulette said he thinks he's been a big part of why things have quieted down in terms of the team and the results starting to turn back the other way since he arrived on the scene. We were talking arrived on the scene,

we were talking about before the recording, Elliot, just his pairing with Keandre Miller. Yeah. That's been a real positive for the team and both players too. So how did this come together rather quickly after the team acquired him? I just think, as you said,

the biggest thing is the Miller thing. Like you look at the number, like this is one of those situations where, you said, the biggest thing is the Miller thing. Like you look at the number, like this is one of those situations where, you know, if you've watched them play a little bit, you watch them play together and you say, you know what, that looks good. And you say, okay, I better check this. And you look up the numbers and the numbers look good, too like this is one where both the eye test and the numbers

work You know aside from playing with Fox This is the best that Miller's looked all season like when he played with Truba this year it didn't look pretty and the numbers were bad. When he's played with Braden Schneider this year it didn't look pretty at time and the numbers were bad. When he played with Fox the numbers have been spectacular. I mean those are two pretty incredible players but you know Fox normally plays with Lindgren

since he's been with Borgen numbers and look better. And your biggest, and you're going to get tired of hearing this line from me, but the best thing you can do instead of trading your problem is solve your problem internally. your problem is solve your problem internally and if you look at Borgen and you say you've got someone here and we suddenly see a path for Miller where he looks much calmer because we found the right partner you're gonna keep that guy and you know they probably pay the the numbers probably a little bit high for a guy who doesn't have a lot of offense then of course he actually scored a really nice goal on Sunday against Colorado, making a really smart pinch and making a play there.

The numbers are probably a bit higher than you want for a guy that doesn't score a ton. But if it's going to make Miller a better player and it's going to affect Miller as well as it has, then you're doing it. Right shots are hard to find. You've got one who's a good fit with one of your key young players. You're going to take the shot. So I think that's ultimately why it all happened here.

And I think the thing too is, Kako has really looked like a new player in Seattle. He's again, the more talented guy in the deal, but it looks better for you if he fixes a problem that you've got as well. All right. Well, before we get to the... And like I said, I don't think the Rangers are done here yet. I think they're continuing to look around. Okay. Well, before we get to the final thought, you threw out the suggestion last pod about a new segment potentially called, We Don't Talk About Your Team Enough. You threw it out to our listeners to let me know specifically who we aren't

talking about enough. We got a few. How full was your box? That came out really badly. How full were your DMs? There was some response. We got some response. A few different teams. But one suggestion from listener Phil Hayes said, you don't talk about the Minnesota wild enough. Okay. So why don't we get into Minnesota a little bit? I did get a good laugh at Nick Foligno getting upset at Caprizov's diving. Yes, I thought yes because the Oscar nominations were unveiled last week and that was a late submission for actor in a supporting role. That was fantastic.

I thought Foligno was going to come like going to say hold on a second and come back from the dressing room wearing a speedo and take a dive or something like that. I thought he was going to go into the full character of this. It was pretty funny. I got a good laugh out of it. I thought it was. I was. Yeah, that's right. You know, I like the tight clothes. I thought it was really interesting. So they beat Chicago on Sunday night. But Bill Guerin is not a happy man right now. He had some harsh quotes to Michael Russo and in particular, and it was something I was thinking about on Saturday night because we've been talking a lot about the punishment that Queen Hughes has taken. You know, Rasmus Anderson owned the Minnesota Wild on Saturday in Minnesota and

Garen was furious about it. He He very clearly said to Russo that that really bothered him he's quote was he Anderson had his way with us and It's true in the sense that That's not the wild. Like they don't go down without a fight. When they went back to play Nashville a couple last week, and they were still mad at LaRue for the slew foot on Spurgeon, like they went after him pretty hard.

And I was like, ah, that's their identity. That's what you expect. And when I saw a Flurry get punched by Anderson, I was like, okay, it's a scrum and Flurry's in the middle of it. And sometimes that happens. But that's my goalie. I thought the wild would be all over him. I completely understood where Garin came from on that one and Garen also wasn't buying the it's the you know the dead zone dog days of this of the season kind of thing and he's

like he basically goes to Russo F that F that and I'm a bit softer on that because it does happen to everybody but I think what Garen is saying is it's enough like you can't have that happen to you and if you remember the way Garen played you know he was a mean and nasty piece of work and you could tell that what happened with Anderson on Saturday night and he did the death stare which was actually pretty funny with a couple of Minnesota fans you know you could see if he would have been sitting next to Garen the steam coming out of his ears you know the thing with me is you know Kaprizov is just back Spurgeon's just back you know I think they're gonna be okay I think they're really a good team I think they're going to be okay. I think they're really a good team. I think one of the things that I'm really curious about is

I think their LTIR situation is kind of screwed up some of Garen's plans. I think Garen really wanted to make a big strike. I think he likes his team, I said from the last couple of days. I think he, and again, like we talked about earlier this year, this is all about, you know, you've got to get Kaprizov to commit to you. So you've got to show you're all in to win. You know, we kind of talked about this with Winnipeg, the last pod. There's some places where, you know, it doesn't matter if you're winning or not winning, guys will want to play because they like it there. But if you're winning or you're good enough to

win, guys want to play almost anywhere because they want to win. And, you know, they were having such a great start, Kaprizov got hurt Everything was beautiful. And I think it was Garen's plan to continue that and show hey, I'm serious and We're gonna go out and we're gonna get something at the end of the year that makes us even better And I still think that's his goal and I expect him to try to do that But the LTIR has made it harder so that complicates his job a bit although Garen's Garen and I think it's his nature to go hard after something when he can I just think it was really interesting that

He had those quotes because when I was watching that game Saturday night I'm watching the Canadian game So I'm watching that Calgary Minnesota one and when I saw that scrum with Flurry and Anderson I was like hmm I'm betting there's some people in Minnesota that aren't gonna like that one and clearly Garen was one of them and so you know the next time they play the flames. Oh, yeah, look, they're all gonna remember that quote. Absolutely. And the flames don't back down from anybody either. Like there's, you know, Anderson doesn't back down. He's, he's

legit Lombard. He'll take on anyone guys out of his weight class. Right? We checked in the box about it afterwards. Yes, I mean, I know they got beat on Sunday in Winnipeg. And I think the thing about the Flames and Goal is it's interesting there. Like, Wolf has won the job, and he's making his run for the Calder, and he's having a fantastic season. Valdar has really struggled.

I know Eric Francis reported this week that there really isn't much of a market for him. I'm curious to see again, you know, Conroy talked about no rentals and now he's thinking about maybe a cheap one for a right-handed center. I just don't know if there's another goalie market out there that kind of fits what he wants to do but again like the team has deserved it deserves the help right and I wonder if he's gonna look at it he's it's just my sense of the Conroy is that he recognizes the team has earned help and he doesn't want to do anything stupid but he you know he's a former player he recognizes

that so I am looking forward to that last Minnesota Calgary game because I think it's faced as safe to say that those Garen quotes are gonna be all over the dressing room the next time those two teams play each other. All right that'll bring us to the final thought which is brought to you by GMC, the Battle of Ontario over the weekend, Elliot. So it was interesting, Saturday morning at the Canadian Tire Center, I was talking to somebody who works with the Senators organization and they were saying to me that they were bracing themselves for what was possibly going to be the most heavily attended leaf fan crowd

in Ottawa. So they have on so they knew that going in they knew they had some data in terms of where tickets were being bought from and all their information was suggesting there was going to be an overwhelming amount of leaf fans even more than what they're typically would be and I will say standing there from my vantage point in that building, I mean, I think I've been to every Battle of Ontario in Ottawa since 1718. I don't think I've missed one yet. And so with that, I yeah, that

was the most blue and white I've seen in that building for for one of those games And I thought a lot about were you wearing like your blue and white underwear? Oh my gosh. I don't own anything like that I don't know. I heard you're a real big like undercover leaf fan. Oh Who would you hear that from? That's what I would love to know. I Don't think about the bills. So clearly I don't think about the Leafs either. We've made that establishment already on this episode.

But I was thinking about this a lot because naturally you see the reaction of this is so embarrassing for the senators and how could they possibly let all these Leaf fans go in. And you know, there's part of it. Yeah, there's there's an element to things I mean certainly the players I remember last year I think it was the the night the Ridley Greg night well after the game one of the players with the Sands went right over to Michael Anlauer and you can tell they're talking about like how do we put an end to all these Leaf fans taking over our our building

and for those who didn't see the Shane Pinto interview pregame, he made the point that, you know, yeah, it pisses us off when we come out for warmups and see all of the Toronto Jerseys in the crowd. But from an organizational standpoint, it's a great night revenue wise. And when you have a night like last night where Ottawa wins, you go, thanks for for coming paying three times you normally would for a ticket buying up everything from the concession and now you get to go home and lick your wounds so it was not the most compelling game I would say but it was close I mean there was some good drama at times some good emotion at times. The crowd, of course, was into it as you would

expect. But it was just an interesting scene, beyond what you normally would anticipate when you walk in there for one of those games in Kanata. I love that you asked Pinto about it. I thought it was great. He was good. It was almost like, I mean, I didn't prep him for that or anything beforehand, but it was as if he was ready for it. So, a few years ago, this would be about 25 years ago, I think, I was dating someone else at the time, and I would like to clarify it was not during the time I was married it was before. I was dating somebody else at the time and she loved the Leafs and she got tickets for a game in Ottawa, Leafs Ottawa and this was before I was working at hockey night and she

goes do you want to go with me? And we'll make like a weekend out of it and I was like sure so I was working at the score at the time and we're sitting in the stands and she wasn't in the seat but I saw I was sitting in the seat and you know a couple people recognized me and they're like what are you doing here and I said oh I came in to watch the game and I go that's that's pretty cool we're. And then she comes walking down the stairs and she comes sits down with me and They see she's wearing a leaf jersey and these were Ottawa people and the mood towards me instantly changed Like they were like, wait

You're you're here with a leaf fan. Like was actually, it was a little bit harsh. It was, this is your girlfriend and she's wearing a Leaf jersey, like you're here with a Leaf fan? And I go, yeah. And they go, you got a problem with that? And I go, no, like I don't have a problem with that. She can cheer for who she cheers for. And then they were starting to say, like, don't you think it's wrong as a professional

journalist to be with someone who's wearing a team jersey and I'm like no she can wear whatever she wants I'm not wearing anything. It got kind of hostile I have to say. Oh my. It got a little bit hostile, it got a little bit uncomfortable but so here's my question to you as a native Ottawa Do you would you support the senators? Blocking like Toronto Postal codes or Toronto area postal codes. No to buy tickets I know cuz I again I think I to borrow your line that's loser thinking. Oh, I'm so proud

You said that I'm so Loser thinking you are again like what I said earlier grasshopper. You are trained beautifully. It is loser thinking and because from an organizational standpoint the amount of money they would have made last night and the cap it off like the fact that the senators won it was like win-win for them We won the game and we took your money, right? So for those reasons like why would you ever entertain that? And it was a good Sunday to it was a perfect storm too because that's the only time this year Toronto comes to Ottawa during the regular season

That's not right. It's the only meeting. I agree, but that's the way that's not right. And the fact that it's late January, there's probably a lot of Christmas gifts, where tickets to see the Maple Leafs play in Ottawa. And it was just the perfect storm. Similar to last year with all those. Remember the night in Buffalo when Matthew scored 60 like that was unbelievable how many Toronto fans because it was like a holiday long weekend it was holy smokes

he's at 59 goals we could go see him get 60 I think similar here the fact that it was the only game in Ottawa on the calendar this season coming shortly after the holiday break. This was the one everyone had circled only one time. It's not right big one against Utah to on Sunday. I know you were at that game. Yeah, three consecutive weekends. They've played both Saturday Sunday and have won every game all three times seven on Saturday and five on Sunday. Is that true?

Or just I know it was the case the week Maryland played back-to-back So the last three weekends, they've got Saturday Sunday Saturday Sunday Saturday Sunday I know but was it all seven o'clock and five o'clock. Oh There was a think of four o'clock in Pittsburgh. Oh Right. So you have three in line. Yes, that's right. Yeah, but the other two were seven and five. That's, even if you're sitting at home, that's not easy. No, and you come off an emotional one like Saturday and you could tell early on against Utah they didn't quite have their legs but found a way in the third period and remarkably... Can I ask you something? Of course.

I'm sorry, I got back onto something and I was not interested in anything else you were saying. Why didn't you tell Stuchla in the post game on Saturday to take off his hat? Okay, I'm glad you brought this up here, Elliot. I was staring at it. I was like, what is he doing? Yeah, because I'm sitting on the couch watching you guys rattle through all the post game interviews for the early games as you were filling time before after hours.

By the way, Tom Wilson was great. He was great. Yeah, really good. So I don't know what happened here because when we did the interview from the rink through the production truck, you know, where the real television happens. When we recorded the interview, because we knew going in, I said, Hey, in case he comes out with a ball cap on, let's have that shot we got of him for warm up ready, where he's got no helmet on, you can see the haircut beautifully. So when we did the interview, there, I asked him about it, and he goes into a box on one side of the screen, and you see the haircut in its glory from a couple hours previous and for whatever reason when you guys played

it back in studio that never showed up but if you watch the interview that was posted online if you watch the clip that was posted really sports that insta you see the shot of him and warm up and the haircut in all of its beauty. I'm shocked at that. Yeah, well. Brian Spear will have so oh, I cannot wait till he hears this part of the pod. So

so let me get this straight. You are blaming somebody else. Quoting one of my favorite movies Starship Troopers I'm doing my part. You know so I gotta say this so I can't remember who Winnipeg was playing it was one of their recent games and Kevin Sawyer's working the game and he's talking about something and the pictures on the screen aren't matching what he's saying. I'm like, okay. And Kevin Sawyer, to his credit, says on the air while this is happening, this is not the truck's fault.

I asked them for the wrong thing. I was like, wow. Like, so I'm telling all you young TV people who want to go into the business, be a Kevin Sawyer. Don't be a Kyle Bacoskas. Oh my gosh. That's totally not the same thing. That's totally not the same thing. Oh, I don't know. It sounds to me like it is. My goodness. No, I think you're looking for excuses now because you were already because I could get because even your guys are sitting there and you're like, oh, I would have had

him take his hat off. Like that's what I was expecting. I was like, take it off. Yeah. And I'm good. I liked it. Yeah. It's a different look. That's for sure. He was good about it. He gave a good answer He was it was a it was a great interview except for we couldn't see the hair, right? so If you watch the interview anywhere else other than 1257 a.m. Eastern time in the wee hours of Sunday morning you would have seen the intended visuals of Tim Stootsla's brand new haircut to help break the senators scoring drought on Saturday night. Alright that was the

final thought brought to you by GMC. We'll take our first break we surely need it and come back with a thought line. You're listening to 32 Thoughts. All right. Welcome back. Time now for the thought line, the real guts of this podcast. Elliot, I have a question, or so an observation because it's been well established that I love breakfast, but I learned over the weekend that you love dip. Yes, I love your words verbatim. I couldn't believe serve it up staff. She makes a great dip and she made one for me on Sunday morning because we have a big card game that always is played on Super Bowl Sunday and

sometimes we order food. It's generally not potluck but I love to have the dip handy and it was spectacular. Very spicy. The one she made on Sunday. Not everybody could eat it. I don't know about you, but I really love spicy food. I recognize, however, that there are people out there who cannot handle it and don't like it. Yes, a little sweat while eating never hurt anybody. Unless it drops into the food, then it could

potentially hurt you. Yeah. Well, not if it's my own. That's disgusting. All right. Why don't we start with Where do we go from here? Okay, how about Jeff from Revelstoke BC? Hello, Kyle Dominelli. I'm a longtime listener of the pod here. 30 then 31 now 32 thoughts has always been my go-to source for an inside Look at the league much appreciate you sir nice isn't that nice?

However, I feel I need to point out a somewhat disturbing recent trend oh The last two pods have featured commentary about Elliot in form-fitting one-piece biathlon suits as well as tight pants. Now when listening, I feel like Homer Simpson during that classic ski vacation clip. Okay, don't panic. Remember what the instructor said. If you ever get into trouble, all you need to do is...

He looks like I'm wearing... Nothing at all. Nothing at'm wearing nothing at all. Nothing at all. Nothing at all. Stupid sexy Flanders! Please, more hockey and less stupid sexy Friedman. Thank you kindly. I think that can be arranged.

No problem. That's pretty funny. I had to get that one in. Jeff from Revelstoke, thank you for that. Great way to kick it off. From Revelstoke to Atlanta, Sean is up next. Hey Elliot, come on up. Alright, Sean. Boltz fan from Atlanta here. Love the podcast as well as Saturday headlines on Hockey Night. Oh, tuning in from Atlanta. Appreciate that.

Saturday headlines on hockey night. Oh, tuning in from Atlanta. Appreciate that. Friday, the news broke that Tony D'Angelo was signed by the Islanders and it was mentioned that he'll have to clear waivers because he started this season in the KHL. Can y'all explain why this is a thing in the National Hockey League? Sure. I don't know how old Sean is, but the reason that this exists is because of a player named Ryo Rotsalainen. Now in the 80s, Rotsalainen was a defenseman and he was from Finland, a really talented player. He had a

year. He scored 28 goals with the New York Rangers. You know, he was really, really talented guy. In 1987, he started the season overseas and then he came back and joined the Oilers late in the year and he had in 16 games. He had 13 points and in the playoffs. He had seven points in 21 games and the other teams in the league like remember at that time they basically ended four on four on coincidental minors because the Oilers were killing everybody in that. So this was another example where the Oilers found a really good player, perfectly legally, but everybody hated it so much that they said, we're not allowing this anymore you can't just drop in a player who's been playing three-quarters of the season overseas on your roster

they just they stopped it. Rustalainen by the way would come back to the Eulers in 1990 win another cup and have 13 points in the playoffs so that's why the rule it's basically the Rustalainen and Oilers rule. That's basically why they did it. So now if you play in another league after the NHL season begins, if you sign a contract you have to be made available to everybody. Now there's a famous case where this almost became a big, big, big snafu. In 2013, that was a half lockout season. Ryan O'Reilly went to the KHL to play with his brother. And he played a game after the lockout ended and play resumed. Not

everybody realized it at the time, but he did. And then the Flames signed him to an offer sheet, And then the flames signed him to an offer sheet which Colorado later matched and What the flames didn't realize because they didn't check at the time was if they had signed him to that offer sheet they would have had to put him on waivers and Somebody would have claimed them So the flames would have looked at a situation where they didn't get the player and they would have had to pay the compensation to the avalanche, which was, I think at the time, a first round pick and a third round pick.

So the flames faced a situation where they could assign the player, lost them on waivers and have to give up the compensation. That would have been a total, total disaster. Now that year, just because of the lockout and the fact the players were playing overseas, the rules were amended so that Colorado, which owned, you know, which owned the right to match, even though O'Reilly hadn't signed a contract, they still had the right to match. Colorado that year was allowed to sign and play O'Reilly. It was for that year only because guys were playing overseas. But if you signed a player whose rights you didn't already own or a right to match you already had, you had to put them on waivers. So that was a situation where

nearly it turned into a complete nightmare for the offending team. Wowzers. Good one, Elliot. Thank you for that. Sean, thank you for the question. All right. Hollis from Ottawa. Hope I'm pronouncing that right. Hello, Elliot, Kyle and Dom. Long time listener of the show and no, Elliot, I do not know Kyle. Ottawa pronouncing that right. Hello, Elliot, Kyle, and Dom. Long time listener of the show, and no, Elliot, I do not know Kyle. Ottawa is not that small. I'm a big fan, though, of playing the EA Sports NHL franchise games.

This year, I have begun to play both my NHL affiliate games as well as my NHL team games, rather than simulating the NHL games as I used to. That is a commitment, first off, let me guess this got me. You don't know why you don't know Kyle, cause you're in your gaming room all the time. You got no time to go anywhere else. Never leaves the house. I suspect too busy, too busy. There's too many games to play.

Too franchise disease running here. Give the guy a break. I suspect that teams that are in a rebuild would generally have stronger AHL teams and weaker NHL teams. Please tell me if I am wrong in thinking this. No, generally you are on the right path there for sure. What I am wondering though, is has there ever been a year when an NHL team has won the Stanley Cup and their AHL affiliate has won the Calder Cup in the

same year? Thank you very much for the podcast, the wit, and most especially thank you to Elliot for being the only person who makes fun of themselves as much as I do. Well, I aim to please you got to have a fun outlook on life. I do know that this has happened before and the one team I can think of off the top of my head. And I don't know if they're the only ones or how often it's happened. But I believe when the Montreal Canadians were in their runs of Stanley cups, their American Hockey League team would win too. Is there anyone else? Correct, yeah.

So in 76 and 77, the Canadiens won Stanley Cups and the Nova Scotia Voyageurs won the Colts. Oh yeah, that's where they were when I was a kid, the Nova Scotia Voyageurs. That's right. Yep. And one other time other than that, 1995, the Devils won the big one and the Albany River Rats captured the American title. Nice. So it hasn't happened in 30 years. Correct. Correct. Only three times all time.

I actually I mean not not to brew my own roast here but I actually looked that one up myself and had Sportsnet stats confirm it for me. Usually I just send the email. I thought you know what I should try. I should make an attempt. I was right on it. There is no... Thank you. Thank you. Oh you're too much. Thank you. Thank you. Dom, you are really on the ball today Dom. I would stand... You're really too much. This is Tom. You are really on the ball today Really too much. It's under I have to say too that there is no more fitting

Description for you patting yourself on the back then brew my own roast. Yeah, I think I only brought that is a perfect label Yeah, that's right. That is a perfect label for you label. Yeah, that's right. That is a perfect label for you. Very good. Hollis. Good luck with the rest of your seasons and both the NHL and the age. Oh, yes. Thank you for submitting that. All right. We got a voicemail next. And it's from overseas. Raphael in Switzerland. Oh, I just wanted to say, we do actually get very often confused with Sweden. So your take on Joey.Corp being Swedish instead of Swiss is not far fetched. And I'm sure

a few folks over in North America would not be sure on where to pinpoint Switzerland or Sweden on a map. Just wanted to say that. Yet I do still have a question. I was wondering, and you mentioned in your last pod, is this one of the closest seasons now that we're midway through the season in history of the NHL or not? I just feel like with all these teams being so close around a playoff spot, although we still have a half a season to go, it is all really tight and super interesting to watch. I wanted to see what you have a season to go. It is all really tight and super interesting to watch. I wanted to see what you have to say to that. Thanks for the part. I enjoyed it very much and have a good day. Thank you, Raphael. I would like you to know, Raphael, I am a person who loves to play map of the world on Sporkel. I take great pride in being generally able to know where countries are. So I know that

Switzerland is more Western Europe. I don't know if you'd call it Southwestern Europe, but basically you know around Lichtenstein, Germany, Italy, France, and Sweden is obviously more up north in between Norway on the west and Finland in the east in Scandinavia. Now you're just showing off. Very good. Map of the World sparkles 197 countries. If I don't get like 197, I get really angry at myself. But thank you. It's always great to get notes and these kinds of comments from people where you don't expect. It always brings a great smile to your face.

Now, have you done any kind of research on this one? Well, I just, it's kind of an arbitrary one, you know what I mean? So I didn't. And especially because it will be, once we see how this regular season ultimately finishes, I think that will give us the true sense of is this has been one of the close ones. But I just got thinking a little bit of just kind of some wild endings to a regular season to kind of close out the final playoff spots. Like when Philadelphia and New York played that game, game 82, it went to a shootout, like winner got in, loser didn't get into the playoffs. I think that was the year that the Flyers, they won, they won in a shootout and got into the playoffs. I think that was the year that the Flyers they won they won in a shootout and

Yeah, I got into the playoffs and went to the Stanley Cup final before losing to Chicago. I was thinking about that one member in 2007 On the Saturday night the last Saturday Toronto and Montreal played and Toronto I think had like a multi-goal comeback To give them a chance and then they needed the Islanders to lose to the Devils the next day and the Islanders were leading and the Devils tied it with like what like a second left in the third Yeah, send it to overtime and then I think the Islanders won in a shootout To get them into the playoffs and knock Toronto out Those are a couple that came to mind for me from just like crazy last couple of days of the regular season

But in terms of having a large number of teams in the mix right up until the bitter end, that's a little tougher to track down. I don't know if anything comes to mind for you. The one I really remember was earlier my time at hockey night in Canada, I can't remember the specific situation, but the Leafs again, it went right down to the end of the season and we carried, I think, the game live on Hockey Night in Canada. I want to say it was Tampa, Carolina. And Tampa won and it knocked out the Maple Leafs. Whatever Tampa did knocked out the Maple Leafs. And the radio guy, of course, is Dave Mishkin. And Dave Mishkin is one of the nicest people alive.

But when Tampa does something great, it's not hard to tell. Let's just say it this way. It's not hard to tell on Tampa radio when the Lightning are doing something really good because Dave is orgasmic. Like he just really puts everything into it. So our fan guys in Toronto got the audio of Dave screaming that the Lightning had knocked the Maple Leafs out of the playoffs. And I've told this before, but I had friends who are big Leaf fans who developed an irrational

hatred of Michigan because of that call. They're like, do you know that guy? I go, oh yeah, yeah. What's he like? He's a great guy. He's a really nice guy. I hate him. They're like, I would run him over in my car. What's he like? He's a great guy. He's a really nice guy. I hate him. I

They're like I would run him over in my car. Oh My gosh poor guy catching strays like that That's though. That's the one. I always remember but yeah, I You know, I think the thing about this year and Raphael so I think I think you have to wait to the end of the year To see how it all unfolds But I think you're right about the general closeness and I think the have to wait to the end of the year to see how it all unfolds. But I think you're right about the general closeness. And I think the other thing about this that makes it better is that there's two teams, one in each conference, that have really come out of nowhere to be good stories. And one, of course, is Calgary and the other is Columbus.

I think that those two teams and there's a... And they share a common bond this year. Yes, they share a common bond this year and you know, obviously I think people look at them and how hard they play like, you know Calgary and they both have young players finding their way. They both have veterans having great season they've both had some pretty big injuries in addition to everything else they've gone through that they've had to deal with and They're easy teams to root for right so I think that adds to this season

All right Griffin from Armstrong BC. Hello Elliot and Kyle. I'm another Griffin from BC going through an emotional rollercoaster of Vancouver Canucks hockey. Nice to have a franchise that produces so much drama that we are almost talked about weekly on your podcast. I'm sure all the other fan bases appreciate it just as much. My question relates to scoring chances. I am wondering what classifies a high

danger scoring chance, a scoring chance, or just a shot on net? In my mind, I think every shot on net is a scoring chance because if the goalie was not there, it would be a goal. Any information you have on this would be appreciated. Thanks for always providing great information and content. Well, thank you for that question. So, I went right to the source on this one, Elliot. Mike Kelly at Sport Logic. for always providing great information and content. Well thank you for that question. So I went right to the source on this one, Elliot. Mike Kelly at SportLogic. Yeah. Because SportLogic is the company that Sportsnet uses for our analytic information. So he explains it this way. Now he also points out that just because Sport Logic defines different scoring chances

a certain way, other companies may look at it another way than they do. It's not a singular database that everyone would pull from. But they say Sport Logic, they count scoring chances as any shot attempt from the slot. But for high danger chances, there's a little more factors that go into it. So it needs to meet a certain expected goal threshold. You following me so far? Yes. Which is goal probability based on the historical value of the shot sequence.

So if you're saying a pass from behind a net to the guy at the face-off dot for a one-time shot through traffic, Over the course of time as they've tracked all the times this has happened, how often does that result in the goal? That's the sort of thing that helps determine things like expected goals from certain locations and situations. So they have different thresholds from it, things that affect goal probability, shot location, pre-shot movement, the handedness of the shooter, the angle to the net.

So the example he provided, a guy standing flat-footed between the hash marks with no screen taking a wrist shot is a lot different than a guy in the same spot getting a one-timer with traffic. So those are the sorts of things that go into determining, okay, is it a scoring chance or would it be a high danger scoring chance? It's not a simple answer but it is quite incredible like just how much information and different factors all go into determining what is what for those that do a deep dive on this for a living. You know it's a great response and I'm glad you did that little extra

work. I've had people who say to me that's kind of intimidating and I go I know and and I would always say that Teams keep them differently So that's another thing here. Like that's one I get that from teams all the time They're like it's you know, it's good that you're trying to use some of these numbers as a baseline But always remember that internally we may be keeping different data. So if you say we're good at this or we're not good at this, we might at times disagree. So that's one thing, you know, you always remember. Like the one thing I always tell fans is, if you want to feel part of it, you want to kind of create your own numbers just for your own fun.

I mean you decide. What do you like, do you say say hey like anything in the slot is a high danger chance? Like some people do that just simply when they're watching their own games. So if you're so inclined I would say that as well. One of the things I learned over the years is that especially before statistical analysis became as deep as it is now, teams used to keep their own scoring chances. I remember I did a game once and Gary Green was there, the former coach, and he was doing radio and he said to the coach, like, what were your scoring chances of, what did you keep your scoring chances of at the last game?

And it was really early in my time at hockey night and the coach answered and I just said hey like can you just tell me a bit more what you asked and he just said like that was that was one of the first times I realized that actually I was sorry that was even before I got hired a hockey night that while was was a young reporter and he said that yeah, teams keep their own total of scoring chances. And I remember asking like him because, and Gary was just a really nice guy who was always tremendous with his time. He said like when he coached what he considered a scoring chance and what he didn't.

And what I found out was that there are some teams out there that if you miss the net, they wouldn't count as a scoring chance. I was like, what? Like even if like even if you really even if the guy misses the net, like he still walked into a great opportunity and he actually considered almost more of a punishment of his team in terms of the shooters that and there was one coach. almost more of a punishment of his team in terms of the shooters. And there was one coach, I think, who said if we missed the net, I didn't count it for us.

But if they missed the net, I counted it against us. And this was a good coach. He was like, I want a high standard for my team. And I remember being a good team. I'm trying to remember who it was. I remember being a good team. And he said remember who it was I remember being a good team and he said I want a high standard for our guys so if you miss the net no scoring chance for us but not everybody agreed with that approach. Fascinating yeah Griffin thank you for submitting that thank you for the question okay we're wrapping with Trey from Colorado. Hey, Elliot, Kyle, and Dom, as the location suggests, I'm still trying to process not

seeing number 96 in an Avalanche uniform anymore. A component of that trade was with Chicago and Taylor Hall. With Hall getting traded to Carolina from Chicago, I believe this is his fifth trade. You are correct in that. So the question I pose, is he the first overall pick who has been traded the most in history? Well, Oh,

I'm just gonna look at the list of first overall picks. I'm gonna cheat slightly. Good place to start. I really appreciate it. Because I'll see if any one of these guys really has Macklin and Celebrini been traded yet? No? Okay, so that's still zero. Okay, let's take a look at this.

So there's Taylor Hall. Eric Johnson, not five though. He's probably been traded three or four times. Four times. I think Yeah, he's not cracking the top four I've got Okay Flurry, I think he's only been traded Once or twice there was an expansion draft there. Mm-hmm. Rick Nash was traded twice

Wait, wait, wait, wait Roman hammer like no One eternity later. Oh now I'm getting into the 80s. Some of these guys were treated a few times Yeah, the other names on this list are oh, hold on. I Mean Rob Rammage was traded a few times So he's there Wendell Wendell Clark five times Wendell Clark was traded a few times Rob Rammage has been traded five times He and Taylor Hall and one other player are tied for second for the most. So there's one other

there's one guy who's been traded more than that. Six times Yes. Okay, I'm going to look through this. It's not hammerlick. Okay. No, you got to go back. A few decades. I wouldn't have got any of these. Okay, so I know Michelle Place was traded a couple of times, but I don't remember six. No. Mel Bridgman was traded a few times. The only other one I could think of was Joe Murphy. Hit me.

Okay. Rounding out second spot with Taylor Hall and Rob Ramage, Gary Monahan. Oh man, he was the first guy ever taken first overall. I just have no memory of it. There you go. And number one on the list, six times traded, Barry Gibbs. So he was the, so I was looking at those names at the top Gary Monahan and Barry Gibbs So once Monahan I remember that's the trivia question the first player taken first overall in the draft and Gibbs was taken first overall in 1966 I just didn't remember how many times he got traded It was a while ago, so we can't fault you for that

Wow. It was a while ago so we can't fault you for that. No, no, no. Rob Rammish. I have a high standard. Yes. Yes you do. Wow. So there you go. Taylor Hall in the history books. Yeah he was asked about that the other day. He said I hope to stay here for a while. Kind of tired of moving around. Right. And now when you look at the historical context, you can understand why. Good job. Good effort, Elliott. Another edition of the Thought Line in the Books, 1-833-311-3232, or if you want to send an email, 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca. We'll take our final break and conclude the podcast after this. You're listening to 32 Thoughts. All right, welcome back. Before we go, Elliot, is there anything left on your mind after another lengthy pod of ours?

Who's birthday is on January 26th, which was Sunday yesterday? Wayne Gretzky was one. Yes. Is that who you're thinking of? I was thinking about Wayne Gretzky, one of the nicest people I've ever dealt with in sports. But there's another individual whose birthday is on January 26th and some people will say Vince Carter. When Carter burst on the

scene and we realized that he and Gretzky had the same birthday there was definitely some magic in that but one of my favorite entertainers Was born on January 26th and that Kyle Bacoskis is or was Paul Newman Reg Dunlop Reg Dunlop and most sports fans would know him from Slapshot Slapshot of course and That's one of his great roles like he is legitimately fantastic in that movie, but have you seen many Paul Newman movies like were you ever I mean obviously you were born Watch a little very late into his career, but have you seen many of his movies I? Paul Newman movies like were you ever I mean obviously you were born

Very late into his career, but have you seen many of his movies? I mean slap shot would be the one I'm comfortable with beyond Yeah, I'm showing my age here Okay, that's good. I mean there's nothing wrong with that like it was just it's just you know you're younger, but Paul Newman is is there were days like there's some movies that you when you see you have to watch them I think I've mentioned before the deer hunter is one of those movies he's not in that obviously the original Roadhouse is just a great movie I always have to watch when I saw it. And he's not in that. But there would be times when I would

see that either a Paul Newman movie was going to be in the theaters, or I saw on my guide on my television that a Paul Newman movie was coming on. And I would be like, clear the decks. I don't care if I've seen this movie. I am sitting down and I am watching Paul Newman, Color of Money, The Hustler, Coolhand Luke, Absence of Malice, The Verdict, Butch Cassidy and the Sun Dance Kid, The Sting, Fort Apache, The Bronx, such a wide range of incredible movies. And if you're a movie person and you're a bit younger, like sometimes there's some movies

that were great movies at the time and they just don't translate really well. Like when I was young, one of the big movies was The Jerk with Steve Martin. I watched it once with a former girlfriend and she was like, I don't get it. The original Meatballs was a great movie I loved as a kid and people were like, I don't get it. Younger people. Arthur, the original one with Dudley Moore, I must have seen that movie 40 times again I show I watch I'm a former girlfriend of mine. She's like I've heard you talk about this movie I want to watch this movie with you. She's like Yeah, I don't get it

You know, I think But Paul Newman pattern here. There's definitely a trend here. It might be me, Kyle. There's definitely, I swear though, these were good movies when they came out. It might be me. But if you love movies and you love good acting, I would just tell everybody, sit down with one of those classic Paul Newman movies and tell me it's bad. That guy was as good at what he did as anybody's ever been at what they do. I loved Paul Newman. So when I was reminded

it was his birthday on Sunday, yeah Gretzky, yeah Vince Carter, but I was reminded it was his birthday on Sunday, yeah, Gretzky, yeah, Vince Carter. Uh, but I was like, Paul Newman, man, he is a God. I was going through his credits and I forgot not only do I connect with Slapshot, but also the 2006 blockbuster cars. He was the voice of Doc Hudson. Yes. He was a voice in that movie. I forgot that one. Yes There's was a little more recent for Paul Newman. Well, that's good I'm glad that's where your mind went to on Sunday. Yeah. Yeah I'm probably gonna I got a busy week. I'm working, Minnesota

Toronto on Wednesday can see angry Bill Garren when he comes into this week but I would love to find some time this week to pick one of those movies to sit down and watch like he was ah what what a great actor what a great great actor let him know you're there as Reg Dunlop would say okay you mentioned the Minnesota Toronto game this week that's something to keep an eye on the network that is the main event of Scotiabank Wednesday night hockey this week. 630 Eastern, the pregame show is on the air. 7 Eastern, 4 Pacific, the Maple Leafs and Wild from Scotiabank Arena in

downtown Toronto. That'll do it for us. Another lengthy one in the books. Only so many hours in a day and we appreciate you spending a few of them with us once again. And we'll talk to you again come Friday. Take care.