32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Succession

Episode Date: February 4, 2022

The Chicago Blackhawks held a town hall on Wednesday. Jeff and Elliotte discuss the comments made by Rocky Wirtz, how this might change the Blackhawks approach when it comes to their GM search, and what the NHL might do as the league gets ready for All-Star weekend in Las Vegas,The guys also chat about Pat Verbeek and what his first move might be as the new general manager of the Anaheim Ducks (22:30), and Elliotte tells us about his conversations with David Poile (34:15), Bill Guerin (37:40), and Rob Blake (40:30). Plus, a SURPRISE In-Season Cup update!Full transcript for the episode can be found here by Medha MonjauryMusic Outro: Jay Feelbender - Cheap WhiskeyListen to the entire track by Jay Feelbender on SpotifyThis podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Audio Credits: Chicago Tribune, Detroit Free Press and Turner Sports.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

I guess my question would be for Danny. I know we're looking forward here, but I think we have to look back also. And I think much of what happened to Kyle Beach stemmed from a power imbalance between a coach and a player and the powerlessness of a player in that situation. So what are the Blackhawks doing? What have the Blackhawks done? What will the Blackhawks do to empower a player in a similar situation to make sure that doesn't happen again? I'm going to answer the question at the end. I think the report speaks for itself. The people that were involved are no longer here. We're not looking back in 2010. We're looking forward and we're not

going to talk about 2010. I know and I'm not either and we're not going to talk about what happened. We're moving forward. That is my answer. Now what's your next question? I can pick up to what we are doing today I think no I don't know that's none of your business that's done your business what we're gonna do today is our business I don't think it's any of your business because I don't think it's in your business you don't work for the company if someone in the company asked that question we'll answer it and I think it should get on to the next subject we're not going to talk about subject. We're not going to talk about Kyle Beach. We're not going to talk about anything that happened. Now we're moving on.

What more do I have to say? You want to keep asking the same question? You hear the same answer? Okay. Ask the next question. Okay, good. That was Wednesday. And with that, we welcome you to the 32 Thoughts podcast presented by the all-new GMC AT4 lineup. Elliot, that was stunning, shocking, disappointing. I don't know how else to describe it, although there are plenty of adjectives. As you were watching this live, what's going through your mind here, Frej? You know what I thought, Jeff? What's that?

I thought I was watching Succession. Do you watch Succession? I have never seen it, but I've heard all about it. There are times in that show where it's so uncomfortable because Logan Roy, who's the father and the most powerful person in the company, he'll lash out and people will try to stop him and it just doesn't matter. He's the most powerful person and everybody is intimidated by him and afraid of his power and what he could do with that power and they don't stop him. Like as you said, I was watching it live and I was shocked because I didn't understand what had happened. I actually thought that maybe somebody off camera that we didn't know who it was had said something that

had set off Rocky Wurtz. Because the question that Mark Lazarus asked, I spoke to Kyle Davidson a couple months ago and he talked about your general manager at this time, interim general manager. One, you're tasked with dealing with the hockey team, but also at a time where you're trying to rebuild the reputation of the franchise. And we started talking about that, and he said, look, I really don't want to go into it because we're going to do a press conference on this in a few months. And I think it's proper that we roll it out in a certain way at that time. So they've been preparing for this for a while. They announced that the event would be held a week before. Like, Jeff, you know what's going on.

They're doing dry runs. They're doing rehearsals. They're doing rehearsals. They're prepping all the questions. Yeah. Like I'm sure some of those questions were pre-picked, but they had to know that question was coming. To me, that was the most shocking thing about all of it is they had to know that that question was coming.

This was the first time that Rocky Wurtz has faced questions since the Kyle Beach Locke and Jenner report came out. So to your point, Rocky must have known, the Blackhawks must have known, whether it was going to be at the town hall, whether it was going to be somewhere down the road, the question was coming. You had months to prepare for it. And to your point about this being, you know, a belt high fastball, I mean, this was a tap in, this was a layup. This was an easy one, even by Lazarus's own admission. It was a soft question. Like there's some questions that you throw out to people to give them a shine

spot. This was a place where the Blackhawks could have shone. This was a place where Chicago Blackhawks could have shone. This was a place where Chicago Blackhawks could have said, Mark, thank you. As much as we don't want to look backwards and we want to look forwards, here's what we are going to do to make sure blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It was a potentially great moment, but instead, it almost seemed as if a couple of things to me. One, Rocky Wertz, to me, seemed like in his mind, Danny. And I said, you know, that's really troubling. As Danny was prepared to say something, Rocky cut him off. His dad cut him off. I want to get to that dynamic here in a sec for each. But one thing I do want to ask you, I'm very curious

about. I wonder through all of it, because the TNT panel discussed it and most specifically, not to discredit anything that any of the other panelists had to say about it, but when Wayne Gretzky commented on it the way that he did, and Wayne Gretzky isn't exactly known for having adversarial takes against the NHL, any teams. He's a really smart thinker. He's Wayne Gretzky, but he's not known for confrontation. He's known for conversation. There are only two instances where there were moments where you say,

okay, this is Wayne Gretzky going off script or demonstrating that he is perturbed at something. One was the Arizona situation where he was owed money by the team. And the other, as frivolous as it may seem now was in the 94, 95 lockout where he grew a goatee. But like, other than that,

like this isn't what Wayne does. I saw that on TNT. And I said, if you've got to the point where Wayne Gretzky is commenting on this thing, all of a sudden you have taken this thing and turned the volume knob up to 11 and you've turned the heat up even more on the Chicago Blackhawks. From every point of view, this is just a horrible scenario, horrible situation, what happened to that young man. But I'm sitting here thinking, as a parent,

you're sitting there going, my son's 18 years old. He's going to maybe be drafted by that team. I want to make sure. And I'm sure they do have things in place that are going to protect those kids moving forward. What is the Gretzky effect here? And is there a Gretzky effect? Well, of course there is, for the exact reason you said, that Gretzky doesn't weigh in on these things. And he made a good point about what's the parent of an 18-year-old who's being drafted or going to Chicago thinking about that.

I think it's a very, very fair point. A couple of things from what you said there. First of all, i don't think that rocky words sees himself as victimized what i think is that rocky words had decided they were closing the door on this and they were never going to talk about it again and that he's never been challenged like you talked about the relationship between rocky and Danny, you know, Danny Wurtz is the CEO there. Jamie Faulkner is a major voice in the Blackhawks. Some of the things that she's been doing behind the scenes, she's very proud of and trying to modernize the organization a lot of different ways. He completely neutered them on that stage. He completely neutered them.

It's very, very difficult to recover from that in the business world. Very, very difficult. And Rocky Words is someone, he doesn't get told no. There aren't very many people who tell Rocky Words no. So when he says, I'm not talking about it anymore, or we're not talking about it anymore, he expects everybody to follow the rules as he lays them down. That's what the issue was for him. I don't think it's because he feels victimized

because he said we're not talking about it anymore. The Chicago Blackhawks are his team, the team he owns. Danny Words, Jamie Faulkner, you're not talking about it anymore. No, that's it. So when Danny tries to answer it and Rocky takes it, and then Danny tries to interject, and then Rocky cuts him off, that's the dynamic we're seeing here. And the thing is, too, is that you sit here and you say,

what are the consequences? Well, all of a sudden, like this is an owner who's on the executive committee. This is an owner whose family has been a major power broker through his father and grandfather in the National Hockey League for 90 years. This is a problem for the commissioner, the deputy commissioner, not of their own making. And now they always meet with the media on All-Star weekend. They're going to do it Friday afternoon. And this is a problem he suddenly has to deal with that a well there's never a good time

for it but it's a horrible time because it's right at his all-star game and b now he has to deal with this okay i know there's a lot of families who listen to this or some anyway i'm going to count to five and then turn it down for five seconds five four three one. Jeff, what we've got to do is stop having what the fuck moments. And what I mean by that is things that are problems that we create ourselves, right? Like sometimes you just look at a friend of yours or someone you really care about and you're like, WTF, why did you just do that? You didn't need to do that. And that's what I think about here. And so I'm thinking what I would do if I was in the commissioner's shoes. And what you need to do is say, we're stopping this

now. And I know it's hard because the worches are really powerful, but there's got to be something, whether it's whether he steps down or whether he's suspended from the day-to-day operations, or at the very least, he's off the executive committee because he's one of the 10 most powerful owners. And you've got to say, hey, everyone, we're putting an end to this. This one didn't need to happen. And everything we do is under a microscope and people are looking for problems to rip us. We're taking the out. We're saying to ourselves, we're not giving anyone else any ammunition, any fire. And that's what I'd be looking at if I was the commissioner.

You know, there was something that happened in that press conference. One of the things that Jamie Faulkner announced was before this all happened is they said, our season ticket holders are telling us they don't want to buy preseason games. Now that's one of the ways that season ticket holders in a lot of markets get gouged. You have to buy the preseason, but she comes out and she says, we're not going to force you to buy preseason games anymore. Like to me, when you're trying to rebuild something with your fans, that's a home run. As a matter of fact, someone texted me later and say it's the number one complaint teams

get about their season tickets. Why do we have to buy a preseason games? So that's a little gesture that your fans are going to appreciate. And all of a sudden that's blown to smithereens. It is absolutely blown to smithereens. We got to stop doing that. Really quickly, just so our listeners can understand that may not understand that dynamic players aren't paid in the pre-season that's why that is so significant for nhl teams that is all

direct revenue their checks don't start until the season began to the point about gouging or cash grab to ellia's point that's normally what people point to and say, you know what, there's an issue. And I'm with you. That's a significant one. Because it's interesting because what we're talking about here is, you know, building this sort of bridge of trust once again between the organization and its fan base. And I think eventually Mark Lazarus will have his question answered. You know, Danny Wertz tried to answer it. I believe both Danny Wertz and Jamie Faulkner both approached Mark Lazarus and Philip Thompson from the Tribune

to say, we will be discussing this, approached him privately and almost quietly about it. But my question is, how can that announcement have any credibility after we've seen what rocky wurtz has done like once you've had that type of performance and that vitriol you know reaffirming a lot of stereotypes about how people feel about those that are in charge of certain nhl teams specifically the chicago blackhawks throughout this entire Kyle Beach saga. How can any announcement have any credibility? I look at this as if this is now a crisis of credibility, no matter what Danny Wertz and Jamie Faulkner and the entire organization put out there. Because we've already seen this from Rocky. We've already seen this from Rocky.

This is the whole thing. Jeff, this was their press conference, as I said earlier, to set up their recovery, to explain their recovery. So what are you going to do? Have another press conference to explain how you're going to recover from that press conference? Sometimes in the media, we sometimes forget how the business world works. And so I called a friend of mine who's in business and I said, what did you think watching that? And he said that if that happened in a meeting, it would be very difficult for the other people in that meeting who were silenced by him to recover. And that's the challenge here now for the Blackhawks is,

like, I think Rocky Wertz wanted Danny Wertz and Jamie Faulkner to be the faces of his team. They're both heavily involved in the organization. You know, now he's damaged that. You know, one of the things that I was talking about with people today is are they now going to look at this and say we have to go outside of the organization and get someone else now are they going to have no choice but to say we need a new person i can't give you

an answer i don't want to be i don't either it's too quick it's like it's too quick the nerves are right there on the skin i can't i don't know i don't know what they do all i know is going to the office on thursday morning must have been awful logging in on thursday morning as you're someone working for the chicago blackhawks after that demonstration on wednesday i think there are a lot of people in that organization that probably have a lot of misgivings about being there right now. Jobs are hard to come by. I get it. And I'm talking from the backseat, but you're right. Like that's tough for those people to recover. And I'm just thinking about everybody else in the organization watching that too, who's saying to themselves, do I really want

to be part of this? Do I really want to be part of this organization after that? And I'm not saying that there should be all mass resignations. No, no. Jobs are hard, man. Like it's. People have to do what they think is right for them and their families. They have to do what's right for them and their families. But you know what it does though, Elliot?

It chips away at any type of loyalty you have to your company. It kills your morale. When you go through something like that, all of a sudden, someone that loved their job just goes to a job now. This is my job. Where once you might have been proud to tell people where you work,

maybe now you just say, I work in hockey. You know, for me, like I say this all the time, I love hockey. It's taught me so many great things. It really has made me a better person. You know, I've been in sports now as a professional out of school since 1993.

I've been basically hockey exclusive since 2003. I have learned so much, and it's made me so much of a better person. And I think it's a better place than it shows sometimes but like i said earlier about we've got to stop shooting ourselves like these are the things that we just have to stop like in tennis they keep the stat unforced error yeah this is an unforced error this did not have to happen and it hurts the sport one of things, and you and I sort of discussed this on the radio show on Thursday too, this idea that there's the old saying, you become your parents eventually. So once upon a time, this wasn't Rocky Wurtz was the smiling new face of the Wurtz family, where there had been a disconnect between the hockey market in Chicago and the owner of the Chicago Blackhawks, Rocky's father, Bill.

Rocky came in and it was, the games are on television. This is new direction for the Chicago Blackhawks. The old Here Come the Hawks theme song was blaring all over the city. John McDonough came in, Jonathan Taves and Patrick Kane, and here come the Stanley cups. And again, I'm not that close to it because I don't live there and I'm not dealing with the Blackhawks every day,

but is there not an element of Rocky becoming bill publicly on that stage on Wednesday night? Well, that's what someone said to me. Someone who's a little older, like I didn't cover the NHL. Well, certainly not when Arthur was around, because that was 1930. But I wasn't around when Bill was around. But they said, you know, he ran the NHL, basically. He was never, what did they call it back then?

The president, John Ziegler? John Ziegler was the president. Yeah. Gary was the first commissioner. They never called him the commissioner, but Bill Wurtz was the power broker and people said that's what it was like with him. If you disagreed with him, he shouted you down and he always had the votes. Now, I wanted to turn the conversation a little bit on the GM search. And I was talking to some people about this today,

about what that's going to mean. Do you think though any potential candidates might have misgivings about being part of the organization though? I wouldn't say the GM search is tainted or anything like that, Jeff, but Kyle Davidson interviewed this week. I think it was on Tuesday. And they're going to begin opening it up to external interviews. And one of the things I'm hearing is that there's a question now of, does this mean that they need to bring in a more experienced person? Like, if you're only thinking of hiring a GM, let's just say, for example, that Kyle

Davidson's your choice and he's your GM. Now the question becomes, do you need someone above him to manage up? To simply say that after what happened on Wednesday night, you simply need a more experienced hand somewhere in your organization. Now, Ed Olchek was on the stage that night. I have a feeling that his name again, and he's on the advisory committee. He was added there with Marian Hossa and Patrick Sharp. And someone called me and said they wouldn't be surprised if his name is brought up again.

I don't know if it's going to be the GM or another role there simply to manage up. And one of the names that came out and Darren Drager reported it was Peter Shirelli. Now, I know that people have a visceral reaction to Shirelli because of, you know, the way it finished in Edmonton. But here's why I think that that kind of name is going to get traction here. Number one, the league likes Peter Chiarelli. He's been around. He's a lawyer. In addition to a guy who played hockey, he's a lawyer.

He's been an executive a long time. Whether you agree or don't agree with his hockey moves, he's a stable person. You know, I could see the NHL saying after what happened on Wednesday night, you need someone who's older, has some experience. Yes, you've got to make sure you have a good hockey staff around him and he's learned the lessons from, example, what happened with him in Edmonton. But I do think, Jeff, you're going to see a push here to say we need experience. Yeah. Because of the way this happened and the way that things unfolded there,

you're going to need somebody who's been around. You know, I do think that Chicago wants to interview some new, fresh, younger people. And I think that that's a good thing in general. But I think the pressure is going to be on for people who've been around a while because of the way this unfolded.

Because you can't afford any more mistakes. And Olchek has been around a long time. Shirely's been around a long time. You can think of other people who've been around a long time. Andirely's been around a long time. You can think of other people who've been around a long time. And if Danny Wirtz feels so strongly about Kyle Davidson, hire him and give him a position of authority

and allow him to continue to grow and learn. Like to me, that's a no-brainer. And I do think the Blackhawks are in cost-cutting mode here, like a lot of teams are, which is part of this. But after what happened the other night, I think there's going to be a big push for experienced people in and around there because you can't afford any more mistakes from a PR point of view. if this does change the course. Because I think Chicago had their names,

and I think some of them, like Davidson, were younger and fresher and newer. And I think the push is going to be on to say, hang on a sec. You guys have proven that you might not be able to handle that. So we'll see where it goes. So, Ali, Thursday was made official by the Anaheim Ducks. Pat Verbeek is the new general manager.

And as you reported, mystery candidate number two was Jason Botterill of the Seattle Kraken. Verbeek didn't surprise you, correct? No, I heard it was trending that direction on the weekend. I think when we did the 32 Thoughts Hockey Night version, I was told it was trending in that way. It seemed to be the most likely outcome. And, you know, I'll say this. One of the things that kind of happens jeff is that it's like our grandparents right when i was young i used to walk 50 miles uphill both ways to school yeah we didn't have alarm clocks we put candles in our nose and lit them on fire when we went to

bed and when they burned to our nose we knew it was time to wake up it was time to wake up there's a bit of that in scouting too. Sometimes some of the older scouts are like, these young guys, they don't work that hard. Nobody's ever questioned Pat Verbeek about that. Holy smokes, is that ever true? He is at every rink. He is a hard, hard worker.

I have to say my only complaint about his media conference is the zoom shot made his head look gigantic, but you know, that's a small criticism. I'm not the best looking guy on zoom either. It's not his fault. I'm not the best looking zoom guy either, but he's a worker and he's smart. You know,

the interesting thing about this is I have a debate with others sometimes. Like if you look at the Bill Belichick coaching tree in football, it's not that successful. It's not that successful. Like even Mike Ford talked about that with us is that you go out and you get the person from the most successful tree and you hope it works, but it doesn't always work. Who won the Stanley Cup a couple of years ago? Get that guy. Exactly. Well, we've seen it happen work. Who won the Stanley cup a couple of years ago. Get that guy. Exactly. Well, we've seen it happen in the NFL all the time, but people said like,

they think for beaks, a smart bet. They think it's a smart bet. And now the interesting thing is going to be what happens around them. Like I look at their staff. They just brought in Jeff Solomon, Martin Madden, a couple of years ago, Seattle wanted to steal them and give him a promotion but they said no we're keeping them and we're giving them a promotion ourself dave known as is a guy the organization really likes and someone else mentioned to me todd marchand too like that's

a guy with a long history with the ducks that they really like and i know in the interviews some of the candidates were asked about keeping current people. So it's going to be interesting what or who Verbeek wants to bring with him because, look, Anaheim really likes a lot of its staff. So it's going to be interesting to see what the mix is. That is one of the questions. Who stays of the Dave Nones, Martin Madden, as you mentioned, Jeff Solomon? And if they stay, what does the department then look like?

Like with someone like Jeff Solomon, for example, like I've been told he's a big analytics guy. And under Bob Murray, we all knew that that was an area of neglect. Well, he was basically brought in to modernize the organization. The Kings had a very modern organization and he was brought in to bring that to them. So I wonder now with Verbeek in, if Solomon stays, if they have a more robust department in that department.

Listen, we all know about, you know, Dave Nones' history and experience. We all know about, you know, Madden and how he's been able to place players. I am curious who stays through all of this. But the one thing you mentioned, the Belichick tree, is there anything to this idea that he comes from the GM factory that produced Holland and Nill and Iserman and now Verbeek, the Detroit Red Wing? Yeah, but I think this is more an Iserman tree than a Holland tree.

Detroit Red Wing? Yeah, but I think this is more an Iserman tree than a Holland tree. And that's not a shot at Ken Holland. I think Iserman is just his own unique person. There just aren't many like him. Verbeek had a couple of really interesting answers in his media conference when he talked about how young players train. I think you have to be able to provide the tools for those players, whether it's the strength coaches, whether it's the nutrition, the strength programs, you know, I think that is a vital role in helping, you know, these players get to the NHL. I think development and working with these kids on, you know, on a bi-weekly basis or a weekly basis with your player development staff is vital for these guys making strides and getting there and getting to the NHL faster. You can answer anything in these questions, right? And

that was what he went to. And I thought that was a really interesting answer. But the other thing is when he talked about Iserman, what did Iserman teach him? Patience and due diligence. what did eiserman teach him patience and due diligence like i think eiserman is his own unique person there's he's no one's tree he's the tree he's the redwood right he follows his own path and he does things his way but he does things extremely well he's successful in everything he does it's quite frankly disgusting really and i think verbique has seen that and like i said like the thing about eiserman verbique is eiserman's in the hall of fame he's one of the most successful players ever in the history of the game verbique is not in the hall of fame but he's around there he played 1500 games and he was a hell of a player. If you simply go by the numbers for Pat

Verbeek, these are hall of fame numbers. Yeah. Okay. 1,424 games, over 500 goals, over a thousand points, did win a Stanley cup and almost 3000 penalty minutes as well. Something happened every time he was on the ice.

If you just go by the numbers. Well, my point is before I was so rudely interrupted. With facts. Yes. I know information gets you riled up yeah it does i just like narrative they had every excuse to mail it in for the rest of their lives and they didn't they poured themselves into this so i see it as the

eiserman tree and we talked about this last podcast he pushed for this he might say i'm not asking him if he did i just know he did i know he really thought that verbique earned the opportunity now one of the questions becomes how does he see this franchise and maybe this is more of you know what was the nature of the conversation between um the samuelis and pat verbique was it of Verbeek needing to blend into the vision that already exists in Anaheim and the Samuelis, or is it Pat Verbeek coming to this interview process and saying, this is what I think this team needs to do?

I don't know the answer to that, but I do wonder if you're Pat Verbeek, at what place do you think the Anaheim Ducks are at right now in the rebuild? And on whose timeline are you following? He answered those questions. You were still on the air. I listened to his media conference.

Yeah. And he said that one of the best things about going to the Ducks was they're not at the bottom. They're coming up out of it. Yeah. Like some people win jobs because they say what people want to hear.

I think that's so lame and disgusting. I would hope as a person, I would have a better BS detector than that. I think the best people go into job interviews and they're honest. They say, this is what I think you've gotten. This is what I think we need to do and we can align. But Verbeek said that he thinks that Anaheim is on its way up and doesn't need to tear down. And I could see them as a team saying, we like that. One guy who gets no talk in the rookie conversation is Jamie Drysdale. Absolutely. For sure.

That's a great piece for them in addition to everything else they've got. Now, Verbeek doesn't have a lot of time. He said he's moving to Anaheim on Saturday. He doesn't have a lot of time. He said he's moving to Anaheim on Saturday. He doesn't have a lot of time here. He's got some big decisions to make right away that will chart the future of the franchise. But it's clear to me he thinks they're headed in the right direction. The big decision starts with whom?

47. Does it start with Hampus Lindholm, or does it start with making moves with, listen, we've talked about Ricard Raquel and. Lindholm's your big decision. You know, you have to decide where you're going here. And Pat Verbeek and Claude Lemieux, that will be some negotiation. They might have to send stitches for that one.

That'll be a fight. Well, I'm always curious about when someone talks about rebuild and to your point about Pat Verbeek, this is a team, isn't a team at the bottom of the rebuild. It's a team that's on their way up. I'm always curious about whose timeline are they following? Like which players are in that timeline? Like there are some obvious ones. Trevor Zegers, you're following his timeline in this rebuild.

You mentioned Jamie Drysdale as well. I'll throw in Mason McTavish just because I think that they look at him as, you know, at worst, their second line center of the future, but probably their first line center of the future between him and Trevor Zegers. Like, I'm curious, you know, who fits the timeline? And if they can't redo Hampus Lindholm, like let's just say Hampus Lindholm decides, I want to try something else. Like Hampus Lindholm is a different kind of guy. Like Hampus Lindholm is a, as much as he's a great teammate and a super hockey player, you know, he's someone that's into having, you know, different life experiences as well. Like if he says, I want to go try living or playing in another market what happens to other

players around him that aren't on the trevor ziegris mason mctavish jamie drysdale timeline and the obvious one that we would all think of is john gibson like if you lose one do you automatically need to lose two no i don't necessarily believe that i think that you have to look at each decision in a vacuum i'd be doing what i could to sign a guy like lynn holm 100 you know i've told you this i heard like he's 28 he just turned 28 what are the top defense getting they're getting eight times nine right so i'm sure claude lemieux he's no. He's pointing to Darnell Nurse. He's pointing to Seth Jones. He's, yeah, you know, here we are. And I had heard the Ducks were willing to do

a bit more on a shorter term, but I don't know where that is. But the thing is, if you lose him, can you replace him? The advantage that Verbeek has is that he's got a lot of people in there who know Lindholm really well. But the thing is, like, if you lose Lindholm, do you think you can replace him with something else? If you can, then go out and do it. But I think that's a lot easier said than done. No, there's no new Hampus Lindholm coming. I think he's been one of the secret weapons in the West and only people that pay attention to the Ducks know about it. Like, honestly, he's one of those guys that you always say,

if he only played in a bigger market, everybody would know the name Hampus Lindholm. He's just that good. By the way, Jeff, somebody told me that Toronto is on Manson's no trade list. That doesn't mean it can't happen. That just means you have to, if you really want to do it, you've got to work at a bit. Are all the Canadian teams on his no trade list?

I don't know. I was just, I was specifically told Toronto because I'd been mentioning it, right? I think it was someone's way of trying to get me to be quiet. I don't know if that's ever worked. Elliot, I want to ask you about some of the general managers you talked to for 32 Thoughts the Blog. David Poyle, Rob Blake, and Bill Guerin. We'll start with Nashville. And David Poyle is someone that's been around a long time.

What's his stat? The winningest GM in NHL history? Yep. What did you take away from your conversation with David Poyle? I think that the number one thing we kind of laughed about was that they lead the league in fighting majors, and he didn't really expect that. But he thinks it's a reason

that their team has improved this year like look like he admitted he made decisions last year that were not popular decisions they weren't popular among the roster they weren't popular among the fans harvison ellis too yeah but he said we got stale you know we were out of our window we were in our window we were out of our window window, and we have to do better. I don't know if they expected themselves to be where they are this year. I think they're going to make the playoffs. I think those top four Central Division teams are going to make the playoffs, and what a nasty playoffs that's going to be.

Colorado, Minnesota, St. Louis, and Nashville. Knife fight, knife fight, knife fight. They had to do something and their best players have been great Saros has been great D'Ossi has been great Forsberg has been great Duchesne has been great Johansson's been great although you know there are people who said to me 16 and a half minutes a game when you're making eight million you can't want that my point is look like you got to do what you do to make it work their best players have been their best players but they've been rejuvenated by what's happening

underneath them and guys like you know and alexander carrier like those are the kinds of players that have stepped in for them that they weren't expecting you know grandlin's been great that's a guy who says gets no credit i don't know what they expected i didn't think they'd be that good but i think they're better than we all thought you know who doesn't get enough credit there john hines doesn't get enough credit done a very good job you know he uh he helped taylor hall have his best year ever heart trophy you know i i look at some of the players on this team and you just ran down a list of them. Like, I don't think it's any surprise that these guys are enjoying career years, whether they're young players like Tanner, you know,

or whether they're more established players. Someone looking at, you know, free agency like Philip Forsberg. None of that surprises me because what was it that you pointed out the other day? This reminded us of the other day. This is his first full season with the nashville

predators yeah there's no stop and start there's no pause he was hired in january 2020 two months before the pause yeah i i think heinz has done a great job uh with the nashville partners it's a fun team and i just love that uc saros is you know, smashing all our stereotypes. You love Janot too. And 14 goals and he's raw, bone, tough. And I just think of my conversation with Tim Hunter or Moosejaw when he kept saying, don't sleep on this kid. One goal as a 17-year-old. Crazy, right? It's interesting too because, you know, one of the things about Tim Hunter, who was his coach in Moosejaw, you know, he was one of those guys that kind of wrecked training camp for everybody

because he would come in and he'd be torn up like a bad report card. You'd light matches off the guy and everyone else would be like, do we have to show up like Tim? And then the expectation was, yeah, you got to show up like Tim Hunter now because he always kept himself in great shape. And here comes Tanner Jeannot, who's a rock himself. Bill Guerin, what was the conversation like with the Minnesota GM? Guerin, I liked the way he talked about his team's personality,

that they're honest with each other. They say the hard things to each other and that you want to play a skill game, we'll play a skill game. You want to go into the back alley, we'll go into the back alley. And I think the interesting thing too is with Guerin is that he's basically said,

because of our cap situation, I want to know who I've got where as quickly as I possibly can. And they've signed Foligno and they've signed Greenway and they've signed Hartman. You know, the one guy they don't have signed, well, the backup cock and his arbitration eligible.

I'm sure they get something done there if they want to. And the one guy they don't have signed is Fiala. Who's been on a bit of a tear lately. Yes. But you know, he likes his team. And the one thing about garen is he's he is not afraid like he said similar things as as poil he doesn't really want to change his team around very much because he likes the personal mix of it you know we should say one thing about poil i did ask him about an unsigned forsberg going into the trade deadline. And he said, I don't want to box myself in. It's not my preference, but I'll never say never.

I should mention that. But the thing about Guerin is he likes his team a lot. He likes his team a lot. And I like the fact that he thinks a bit differently, Jeff, in the sense that he says, well, people say we don't have a number one center, but we have a star in Kaprizov who doesn't shy away from rough games, who creates chances off the wing. And he mentioned Kucherov as another player who does it. Okay. So if you don't have something, how are you going to overcome

it? And I like Guerin's creative thinking in the sense that he finds a way to overcome it. They may have one on the horizon. They have one in marco rossi he's not quite there yet next year he's not full-time nhl ready but you know what that's probably fine right that's probably fine for them and their salary structure and you know the interesting thing as well oh yeah he'll be on an elc you know that works out fine thank you very much no point in in jumping them in early but the point about uh kevin fiala i had and and his production so far and how he's happy i had mike russo on the on the radio show and he was talking about how much kevin fiala has just thrived off the play of matthew boldy well

and it's sort of give and take like it's both but that combination has been fantastic for Minnesota. Like they've got three really solid lines here. And that second line, you know, you, you, you mentioned Foligno and Joel Erickson Eck is in the middle and Jordan Greenaway, like there's two stealthy, selkie candidates there in Foligno and Erickson Eck. I'm with you for each. They're good. I know there's Cap Hell coming up, but that's a really good team. I was really happy to see Rob Blake

talk about Mikey Anderson the way that he did and talk about Mikey Anderson a lot because one of the things that I don't think many have talked about is the pair of Drew Doughty and Mikey Anderson. Despite the fact that he's injured right now,

Anderson and Doughty have been really good this year for the Los Angeles Kings. What'd you take away from the Blake talk? I just think that he's going to go for a left shot D and a score. He quoted expected goals to me. That's a conversation I didn't think I would have had five years ago. That was one of the first things he said to me actually was the expected goals. Dustin Brown, have a thought there conversation during the uh all-star break they'll see like i didn't get the impression he's going anywhere i think he's going

to retire a king and his number retired there too but you know blake says he's happy with them as the third liner on byfield's uh wing help him, you know, we'll see his contracts up this summer, right? Yes. So I think they just want to have a conversation about where he thinks Brown's head is. I don't think they're rushing to trade him or anything like that, but he just said,

we're gonna have a conversation about his future. Normally we get to some emails and some phone calls from the thought line. Uh, today we're going to push that element of the podcast into the next pod because we're getting a little bit heavy, but we promise we're going to get to you. But there is one comment, however, we do want to play.

This is a 4-5 class from Black Spears Public School in Oakville, Ontario. Here to update the end-season cup. In the lead with 31 days, Elliot Freeman. In second place with 30 days, David Amber. In third place in the current champion with 21 days, Caroline Cameron. And in dead last, Jeff Merrick with 20 days. It is super close at the all-star break.

Follow along on Twitter. And here's to you, my friend. Oh, man. Did that just make my day? I don't know about you, Frej, but I love it. I think you should make that like your phone message. Even though nobody leaves messages anymore, you should put that in your phone. That was awesome. And for those who don't know who

that is, that is a grade 4-5 class in Oakville who are doing all the heavy lifting and tracking the in-season cup. If you want to follow along on Twitter, at in-season cup. And you want to follow along on Twitter at in-season cup and yes, I'm in last place. Surprise,

surprise. Taking us out a Toronto based musician, Jacob Switzer, AKA Jay Feelbender new on the scene as a solo musician. Jay has only dropped a pair of singles, but has been around the music scene the last decade with his first single. Here's Jay Feelbender with cheapap Whiskey on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. This might be my only way of dealing Walking till I'm losing all my feelings There's no one else around, think I'm feeling free

There's no one in the city standing next to me Music on, music off The rocks on, rocks off Feeling one way, feeling lost Does anything mean anything at all? I keep walking, kicking weed, kicking rocks No point stopping, sipping sweet on the rocks Alone in the city with a feeling

Walking till I'm losing all my feelings This might be my only way of dealing Walking till I'm losing all my feelings There's no one else around, think I'm feeling free There's no one in the city Standing next to me Music on, music off Rocks on, rocks off

Feeling one way, feeling odd Does anything mean anything at all?