32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Summer Offer Sheet Special

Episode Date: August 29, 2021

The Caroline Hurricanes strike back — two years later! On Saturday, the Canes tendered an offer sheet to restricted free agent Jesperi Kotkaniemi for one-year, $6.1-million. Jeff and Elliotte break down some of the details and possible thinking behind the offer sheet (1:30), discuss how Carolina decided to present the announcement publicly, contract extension talks […]

okay no i give me 20 minutes bud all right let's do this you know he can't understand you right amel yeah okay that's true yeah really let's do it let's do it so the 31 thoughts podcast bat signal went up earlier on saturday evening and we have responded welcome to the podcast once again quickly thrown together because the big news is offer sheet time yes very quick wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait we have to explain what before we get into the nuts and bolts we have to explain what is going on with all model it's right now like the extra mile that amal delage is going through to get this done more than a mile

he's going out the door and around the block and it is longer than a mile to get this one done for each so there's a rainstorm in the toronto area on saturday night as we record this and amal who lives what northwest of the city correct that's. So almost has a power failure at his house. So he's on one computer that's at 10%. He's at one computer that's 80%. So we have to get going and we're not going to screw around here, but we wanted to give the extra credit to our producer to show the extra mile that he's going to get this done.

On this podcast today, as we say in french the first star emil delic first star of saturday though is it don waddell or is it yes perry cut kenyemi is it marcus leto of wasserman elliott 6.1 actually no.1. And we'll throw in a 3.5 there as well, a 20 plus 15. We'll get to the number, the numerology significance of this offer sheet here in a couple of moments. What is this? I mean, is this just a petty response to 2019? Is it a legitimate play to get the player? What is this offer sheet? what is this offer sheet I think it's both let's set the storyline of what I think we happened here and we'll go into the whole pettiness and the the playground fight and the reaction to it around the league in a second so Carolina's been looking for a center I think that's the case and I do believe that they were talking to Montreal about Kotkaniemi and they discussed the possibility of a trade. That definitely occurred. They couldn't work out a deal. I think Carolina did at some point let Montreal know that they were considering doing this, probably within around the last 24 hours. I had heard that

Kotkaniemi and the Canadians were not close on an extension. The Canadians were using the full weight of their leverage against him. I think my guess is they were talking about a two-year deal in about the $2.5 million range per season, maybe even less. And Kotkaniemi wasn't there. He didn't want to do that. And I also think that Carolina's got obviously a one-year deal at just over 6.1 million, as Jeff mentioned. My belief is this, that they also discussed, and it's perfectly legal to do this because he was a free agent, even though a restricted free agent. I think they also

discussed the potential of what a long-term deal would look like before they signed him to this deal. I think they'd said, okay, if we could do this for term, what would we be looking at? And my guess is that in those conversations, Carolina knows exactly what a long-term deal would look like. And I'm also betting it's not at 6.1 million a year. I think it's less. Now, do I know what that is? No, but I think that there is an understanding or a definite conversation of what a long-term deal could look like. That, by the way, Elliot, would be one of the most unique creatures in the NHL, the extension that is lower than the value of the one-year contract yes it's different but that is a rare bird that is a rare bird but carolina is a pretty smart team like i don't think they're

doing this for 6.1 every year which is what could happen you know years ago there was a situation where before jamie benz signed his huge extension with Dallas, he considered an offer sheet with Vancouver. The Canucks wanted to offer sheet Jamie Benn, and their plan was a one-year offer sheet at $7 million. So every year that they knew that they would have to give him $7 million as the qualifying offer until he got to unrestricted free agency or they did an extension. So right now, Montreal knows if they match the offer sheet, their qualifying offer has to be at least $6.1 million. I just don't see how Carolina, which is not a stupid team, makes a deal with Kotkaniemi here without an understanding

of what a long-term deal would look like. And my guess is it's less than 6.1 million. This is all, of course, in the shadow of the Sebastian Ajo offer sheet in 2019. Before we get to that, I think there's one other thing to talk about here. Okay, go. we get to that i think there's one other thing to talk about here okay go and that is montreal's reaction look it just happened we're recording this podcast two hours after the news dropped i do think there is a legitimate chance that montreal is considering of not matching the offer sheet now famous last words it could change it might just be a visceral reaction you know they have a week we know that if they don't match it they get a first and a third round pick i think

montreal is going to take those picks around the league and i think they're going to see like eric angles uh wrote an article on saturday night and he talked about Christian Dvorak. And I could see Montreal going to Arizona and saying, how would a first and a third be for Dvorak? Do we have the framework of a deal here? And I'm not sure that Montreal is really big in the Jack Eichel sweepstakes. I think their offer they knew was lower than what Buffalo could take or would take. But we now know that Eichel has switched agents. There's a long history between Pat Bresson and Mark Bergevin. I don't think Buffalo wants Eichel back.

I don't think Eichel wants to go back to Buffalo. I just wonder, does this change the dynamic between the Canadians and the Sabres at all? Well, you would have to figure that would be one of the pieces going back the other way. I would imagine that. Well, they would both be. Do you say, look, this is what we're getting for Kotkan Yemi. Okay, let's put this in the deal. How do we feel here? But I don't necessarily think that the change in agent means that Buffalo's asking price is going to get any lower. I still think that Buffalo feels a lot of pressure to win this trade. But it's just one of those things that you kind of have to throw out there, Jeff.

But I do think, as on Saturday night, there is a chance that Montreal is thinking, we're not going to match this. What can we do with this? I'm always curious as well when an offer sheet happens, even if the team intends to match it, that they freeze the other team out from doing business for an entire week. Now that hasn't always been the case. Darcy Regeer with the Thomas Vanek offer sheet matched it right away. Regier said, listen, we needed to send a message to our market here in Buffalo that we're not going to lose any more players or we're going to match our offer sheets. That was an important one for Buffalo, but this is a much different situation, different player,

obviously different time. Do you think Montreal, and you mentioned they're going to shop the picks, we would imagine. Do you think they freeze Carolina out of're going to shop the picks we would imagine do you think they freeze Carolina out of doing business for a week here now what business elsewhere does Carolina have to do if they're looking for another centerman I mean like and they're intending on matching this offer sheet you free if you match it right away then Carolina has more time to go and try to find a centerman this way they're frozen out of doing business. Yeah, I don't think one thing has anything to do with the other. I do think Carolina likes the player.

Like I said, I think they're prepared to trade for him. I think they discussed a long-term deal with him before they committed to the one-year deal. I think this is a player that if Carolina gets, they'll be happy to have for a long time. And if they don't get him, then they'll move on to their next target. I don't think it freezes Carolina from doing anything. Let's get to the pettiness.

Okay. I think that's what has delighted a lot of hockey fans here on a Saturday evening. The quote from Don Waddell is almost identical to that from Mark Bergevin with the Sebastian Ajo offer sheet. The number played, the signing bonus of 20s. We allvin with the Sebastian Ajo offer sheet. The number play, the signing bonus of 20s. We all know that's Sebastian Ajo's number. 15 is part of the contract.

That's just Barry Kutkin-Yemi's number. Like the pettiness of this cannot be overstated. The one thing that I wonder about though through all of this is I've always looked at the Montreal offer sheet as publicly insulting as it may have been because there was the undercurrent of, ha ha, there's no way that Carolina is going to afford this because the owner throws nickels around like manhole covers. We're going to get them.

I kind of looked at the Ajo offer sheet and said, wow, Bergevin kind of did don waddell a favor here a few people felt that there's no question you know the other thing too was the uno card that the hurricanes tweeted out and also yes i don't know if you noticed this jeff but they changed their twitter account to french i saw that con official de zurich and de la caroline ah oui c'est vrai ça and so they they really laid it on and put it this way it probably reinforced your position of the hurricanes one way or the other as in number one if you think this is funny you really thought it was funny b if you didn't like them you really don't like them and you know tom dundon the owner there he's got jerry

jones in him i think he really wants to be the hockey jerry jones and you can only imagine how much he loves this he loves this and the hurricane social media account isn't doing all of this stuff without the owner's favor i mean there's no question about that. So I'm sure there's a lot of people who look at this and just are grimacing and saying that bleeping Dundon, he doesn't care. He is going to laugh his head off at it. I also see a lot of people out here saying, because they did this, this is going to end offer sheets. This is not the first time we've seen revenge offer sheets. We interviewed David Backus at the end of his career. Don't forget St. Louis and Vancouver did that.

David Backus, then Steve Bernier. But the one thing is, it doesn't change anything, I don't think. But I think we have to understand that this is the way kind of business gets done in the NHL. If you offer sheet our guy, there's going to be revenge. And I think that's why a lot of teams don't do offer sheets because they know that the revenge is going to affect them in some way. Here's the revenge. Carolina has had its revenge. revenge now how does bergevin make this work or what does he do i don't think this changes the future at all i think if you're a gm in this league and you

offer sheet someone you know that the revenge is gonna come in some way you know it doesn't change a thing i always wonder too through all situations, and we've seen them before, like there was a strong belief that after Ryan O'Reilly signed his offer sheet to leave the Colorado Avalanche for the Calgary Flames, when the Avalanche matched and he went back, that there was a chill in the room and within the organization.

And after which Ryan O'Reilly ended up a member of the Buffalo Sabres. It doesn't always happen. Shea Weber. Shea Weber is another one, the Philadelphia. Remember the agent very publicly talking about, you know, respect my client's wishes. He wants to be a Philadelphia flyer, et cetera, back to Nashville. And then later, as we all know,

was traded in a high profile deal for PK Subban. In this situation, considering the history of Jesperi Kotkaniemi and the Montreal Canadiens, whether it was the demotions to Laval, whether it was the high-profile healthy scratches that Jesperi Kotkaniemi has already gone through with the Montreal Canadiens, there is a feeling that Jesperi Kutkaniemi might feel like he's been the victim of being false started a number of times by this organization, rightly or wrongly. If the Habs match and Kutkaniemi goes back, what's the vibe? i think players understand the one thing the one thing that i think we all tend to lose sight of too is that the player has to agree to sign this yeah a couple years ago we

talked about marner and columbus and the offer and but marner didn't want to sign etc this has happened before players have been approached with the offer sheet idea and have said now that's not right for him brain point said brain point so like it's happened before yeah but let's not forget too the player has to agree to this and i'm with you i think players look at it and say hey man good on you you can get 6.1 you have the leverage to do it you have the situation go for it but i just wonder about the organization because you can make the argument perhaps unlike sebastian ajo who are just looking for a better deal is this yes barry kakenyemi really looking for a way out and if the habs don't give him one here in exchange for the first and the third what happens to him if he goes back well first of all i don't think it's cock and yemi looking for a way out i think it's

cock and yemi getting a great deal you know what are you going to do a team throws this in front of you or what are you going to say no like some guys will but i can't fault anybody for saying yes i just can't now a couple of things here. First of all, if Montreal matches the offer, they can't trade him for a year. That's number one. But they have a Nick Suzuki extension coming here too, right? And that's going to be a big number. That's the other reason I should have mentioned earlier.

They have to extend Nick Suzuki, who's got one more year on his current deal. That's going to be more than 6.1 this is a number one center in the national hockey league it's going to be a big big contract and we should also mention that nick suzuki is also represented by wasserman yes so all of this it's very incestuous i guess but i think you have to believe if you're caught kenyemi you know well i can't fault cock and yemi for signing it i think he has to go into it knowing with his eyes open if montreal keeps him his relationship with the team has now changed

and yes they have to hold on to him for a year by rule if they match but yeah i think he's got to realize that you know come next september 6th or whatever it is he's going to be on the block let me go back to something that you said a couple of moments ago and that is okay montreal knows they have a first and a third in their hip pocket here if they don't match the offer sheet, and you go shopping for that. If they can't find a replacement down the middle, keeping in mind, everybody, they just lost Philippe Deneau. He's now a member of the Los Angeles Kings.

If they can't get a replacement center now, do they have to match? I wouldn't if i was them i wouldn't you can't look at this as a short-term thing you have to look at it as a long-term situation because the contract that carolina has given you has long-term ramifications. The one thing that's interesting about this offer sheet as, you know, don't look now, but you know, a couple of more sleeps and training camp is on the horizon. I've always wondered why teams, if they were planning on going the offer sheet route with a player, didn't wait until either, you know, late into August or into September after teams have done the lion's share of their business. This is a few weeks before training camp here.

I've always thought this was a saner way to go, if you're really trying to get the player. Or I guess maybe if you want to go the petty route, trying to mess up another team. This to me is a lot smarter than doing it on July 1st. Like when Bergevin offer sheeted Sebastian Ajo, that was a July 1st offer sheet in 2019. It always made more sense to me

if you want to get the player and you're cooking this deal with the player, do it later into the summer when the team has already done a lot of their business. Does that not make more sense to you? later into the summer when the team has already done a lot of their business. Does that not make more sense to you? I think when you feel you can strike, you strike. And the Carolina Hurricanes have struck. anything else before we uh wrap up this quickie edition of 30 still 31 thoughts the podcast

soon to be 32 soon to be 32 you know i'm really curious to see where all this eichel stuff is going to go yeah you know i was very surprised to hear the news that he was switching agents. Everything that happened in the last couple of months from Eichel's side, he knew everything about it. He approved it. He's the one who really wanted to do this surgery, and he was the one who wanted to release the statements when they were released. I don't think that his previous agents, Peter Fish and Pete Donatelli, did anything differently than he wanted.

But from what I understand, he just decided that maybe a new approach was necessary. And, you know, we'll see where it goes. But like I said, like those previous agents, they fought everything that Eichel wanted, they did. Yeah. And they fought for him. Sometimes maybe you just need the velvet glove

instead of the hammer. The one entity that I think of through all of this now, more so than ever before, as I've always in my head positioned it as Team Eichel versus Team Buffalo Sabres. The one group that I wonder about here is, and I don't even know if they can do anything about it, but I can't help but thinking that if I'm the NHL,

I'm looking at this Eichel saga has dragged itself out through the season, into the off season. It flares up every now and then. There's been no resolution. There's been no surgery. and now there's not going to be a jack eichel to start the season if i'm the nhl i'm just well it's funny you mentioned that jeff because i was going to add that i had found out and i was working on this and now we might as well do it because you brought this up there was a meeting in Buffalo I might have my days off because I was up at the cottage

I think it was Wednesday the 18th there was a big meeting in Buffalo the league was there the players association was there Eichel was there his reps were there that was still when he was with Peter Fish and the Sabres were obviously there i'm not sure if the sabers were the doctors were there in person or via zoom i don't know that 100 but i think everybody put their cards on the table and i think the players association wanted to hear it everything firsthand and i think the league wanted to hear everything firsthand and basically what i heard was there was no resolution everybody laid everything out and i think they're still the sabers position hadn't changed as a matter of fact like i heard that everybody was still pretty dug in and we're still waiting to see where this is going to go and maybe

that's one of the reasons too that eichel made the change maybe like i said he needed the try the velvet glove instead of the hammer we'll see but one of the reasons i hadn't reported it yet until you just dragged it out of me like under the form of torture um is that i was trying to find out what the resolution was. And as far as I understand, there hasn't been a resolution. Like nothing changed. The Sabres stayed in their position. Eichel stayed in his position.

And the league and the player association supported the player and the league supported the organization and the CBA. So I don't know that anything changed. And it's been 12 days since that meeting almost, 11 days. That's a whopper. We'll see where this one goes and we'll see where the offer sheet goes. And I suspect that before it changes to 32 thoughts, considering the nature of this

Gaspari Kanyemi offer sheet and the nature of what's happening with Jack Eichel, Elliot I don't want to say that we're back doing full time podcasts yet because we're not but I don't think this is the last 31 thoughts the podcast that you'll hear before it turns into

32. Thanks a lot Amal again for doing this under adverse conditions. And it's great to chat with you, Jeff. Hope you had a great couple weeks off. And to you as well. Enjoy the rest of your time off. Good luck taking the rest of the summer off. Sounds like news is heating up.

Amal, again, first star hands down. Yes. Thanks, everyone. We first star hands down. Yes. Thanks, everyone. We'll talk to you next time. Peace, love, and offer shoots. Ha ha. From piglet's toe to the bone Once in the woods I fell It's only with a tale to tell

From the comfort of your own home Bye.