32 Thoughts: The Podcast - The 3rd Annual Holiday Party

Episode Date: December 23, 2022

It’s that time of year! Jeff and Elliotte would like to invite you to the 3rd Annual 32 Thoughts Holiday Party! We welcome to the party play-by-play voice of the Calgary Flames Rick Ball (2:00), Blake Murphy of Sportsnet 590 The FAN (19:20), former director of scouting and current Sportsnet analyst Jason Bukala (37:20), Emily Kaplan of NHL on ESPN (55:00), play-by-play voice of the Edmonton Oilers Jack Michaels (1:11:45), Sportsnet 590 The FAN host Justin Bourne (1:31:10), head of business affairs at Sportsnet Deidra Dionne (1:47:10), Sportsnet broadcast associate Usama Farooq (2:03:40), studio host of NHL on TNT Liam McHugh (2:09:30), Sportsnet & Hockey Night in Canada  researcher Stan Nieradka (2:27:30) and producer & reporter Amrit Gill (2:40:25).GET YOUR 32 THOUGHTS MERCH HEREEmail the podcast at [e-mail] or call The Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Audio Credits: Sportsnet.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Elliot, it's become the annual event. It is the 32 Thoughts Holiday Party presented by GMC and the new AT4X. Merrick, Friedman, and Delich. And a quick little bit of updates as far as when the next few podcasts are going to be released. This is the holiday special. You're listening to this one. Enjoy it. The next podcast you will hear from us will be next Wednesday, the 28th.

And then we're back to a semi-regular schedule recording Thursday, the 29th for release on Friday, the 30th. So don't look for anything on Monday. You're not getting it. You're going to get HOSA on Wednesday and you're going to get a regular podcast on Friday. Now to the holiday special. We try to keep this thing as fresh as possible and bring on as many new voices from around our shop,

Elliot, as possible. And this time we've left the building, as they used to say when Elvis would leave. 32 Thoughts has left the building. On this year's edition of the Holiday Special, you will hear from Liam McHugh from the NHL on TNT and Emily Kaplan from ESPN for each. Yeah, Jeff, we wanted to invite some new people to the party. We've seen the same guests for so long at these Sportsnet Christmas slash holiday parties, and I get sick of looking at people like David Amber

and Kevin Bieksa, so we needed to have some new blood to talk to. Classed it up a little bit, Fridge. We classed it up a little bit. I like that. Hitting a new level, so let's get right to it. So settle in. This is the holiday special, the holiday podcast. Welcome to the

32 Thoughts Supper Club. Put something in your own cup as well and enjoy our holiday party. Always good, Elliot, to welcome Rick Ball to the party, play-by-play voice of the Calgary Flames and Hockey Night in Canada. Rick, how are you today, and what do you find in your cup these days around Christmas, around the holiday season? First of all, I'm well. Thanks for asking, guys. And secondly, it's always red wine. It's always probably some big, bold California cab.

I'm a bit of a knucklehead when it comes to wine. I like it, but I'm not that sophisticated. So it hasn't changed that much over the course of the year, and Christmas is no different. Kelly Rudy says it's a $300 bottle of wine. Is that true? It is. Yeah, because he's drinking Yellowtail.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. It's awesome. Well, first of all, we're so glad to have you here today. And a quick update on your health. How are you feeling? We all know what you've been through the last little while. How are you feeling? How are you doing?

Well, thanks for asking, Jeff. I feel great. Yeah, it's kind of turned into a thing. I was planning on saying something when I came back after I missed a month or so, but the cat kind of slipped out of the bag and everybody sort of knew, which is fine with me. I wasn't trying to keep it a secret, but for those who might not have heard, I had a pulmonary embolism in October, which is basic. I had broken my leg and then a blood clot formed, went to my lungs, got pretty serious real quick. So it was a scary week when that all happened.

But the good news is, you know, I went to the hospital. They got me on to blood thinners and thankfully I'm feeling much, much better. So great to be back at work. And, you know, after, you know, you go through 50 plus years of your life with no serious health issues and all of a sudden a really serious one. It does kind of wake you up in some ways. And, you know, all the old cliches applied puts things into perspective.

So I'm really happy to be feeling better and, and back on the, on the road with the team and calling games. Well, you sound great. You haven't missed a beat at all. Like, you know,

sometimes you wonder, is someone going to sound different? Is their work going to be different? Still top notch for you, Rick, but you said something there that I just wanted to ask you a little bit about if you're comfortable with it. And that is how have things changed for you since your diagnosis and your return? Or, you know, do you look at life differently? Do you see things differently? How are you doing? Well, all the old cliches applyes apply Elliot like it seems trite to say it but it's so true about appreciating every day you're on the right side of the soil you know it's so I just try not to let things bother me as much just generally speaking in life you know

as you get older that tends to happen a little bit anyway because you'd realize that maybe this week isn't going the way you want it to. But, you know, if you keep doing the right things and trying to be a decent person and working hard, it's, you know, usually they will come around in a good way. So all those things that I sort of already knew on an intellectual level, I've suddenly become more emotionally cemented in the way I think. Having said that, I said to my wife after a while, she goes, how are you feeling? I said, I think I'm feeling better. And she said, why do you say that? I go, well, I'm starting to get annoyed again. So I must be feeling better. So, you know, it's day-to-day

life is the same, you know, little things bug you, but really guys, it's more just trying to let that stuff go probably more than i used to and like i always consider myself a healthy person so the whole idea that it could just go like that you know out of the blue uh really does make you appreciate every day and try to let the little stuff slide away a lot faster than you used to i think i know what did it rick it was the 93rd time the flames dumped the puck into the corner the other night. That's when you finally said, I can't do this anymore. How many more times can I see a three-on-two

turn into a puck battle in the corner? Before I start to lose it. Warren Zivano always said, enjoy every sandwich. It sounds like you're doing that. Around this time of year, we think a lot about what we do and who we are Well, Warren Zevon always said, enjoy every sandwich. And it sounds like you're doing that. Around this time of year, we think a lot about what we do and who we are. And memories come flooding back.

I'm assuming it's always been hockey for you going back to when you were a kid, or am I mistaken on that? My two sports growing up were hockey and football. I loved them both. And I grew up in BC. So it was the Canucks and the Lions were my teams as a kid. And then the local team, I grew up in B.C., so, you know, it was the Canucks and the Lions were my teams as a kid. And then the local team, I grew up in Kelowna, so it was the old Kelowna Buckaroos back in the day. I went to a lot of junior hockey games, too. You know, those are the sports that I loved.

I was not a very good hockey player. This is the funny thing. As much as I loved the sport, it was the one game that I was terrible at. My ankles were really bad when I was young, so I was a bad skater. And I kind of got discouraged at a young age and wound up gravitating more towards football and then ultimately rugby as I got a bit older. Those are the sports I wound up playing, but deep down, hockey, I still feel to this day, is the most fun sport to watch, especially live. It's just nothing beats it. You know, football's a great sport to talk about in terms of broadcasting because there's so much

strategy involved but just the experience of being at the games and really doing play-by-play because of the continuous nature and the frantic pace of a hockey game it is the best sport to do so I've had the chance to do both I did the BC Lions for 11 years on the radio so and I really enjoyed it but you know the fact that I've settled into Calgary now it It's been nine years since I've been there. I'm loving what I do. I love where I live. It's a terrific city. And getting to call Flames games and do some hockey night in Canada and some playoffs as well. It literally is a dream come true. When I had an inkling I wanted to get into business, this is where I wanted to be at some point in my career.

And the fact that I've been able to do it, I can't tell you how much it means to me. Can we pause on one thing? I'm going to throw a dart here and see where it lands. Do you have a favorite Kelowna Buckaroo? When you think back to that, do you have one player who you're like, oh, he was my guy? Greg Adams.

Of course. Greg Adams! Yeah. The Canucks are going to the Stanley Cup Final. The great Jim Robson with the call. Yeah, he played for the Kelowna Buckaroos before he went on. Did he go to Denver? Gosh, I can't remember. I hate to say it.

He's my favorite Buckaroo. I can't remember what university. Northern Arizona. Northern Arizona. Okay, well, there you go. And winds up being a Canuck kid. Sounds like you guys were really tight. I follow him like a family member, clearly.

I loved him because, you know, it's interesting. This just sparks something because I always like to mention what junior teams, not always, but I'll try and drop it in there occasionally, what junior teams players play for. I love it. Because when I grew up in Kelowna, especially before the Western Hockey League got there, because more players, especially back then,

they see a lot more guys go through the Junior A route and then university and make the NHL. That didn't happen as often back in the day. So when I grew up in Kelowna, to have a guy that played in Kelowna or was from Kelowna play in the NHL and then hear the broadcaster mention that on the air really meant something to me. And I think about that now in small towns. Some kid played for the Medicine Hat Tigers or whatever, I'll it and i usually mention it because kelly rudy's a medicine

hat tiger alumni he demands that i say it but uh it's just an example i just remember as a viewer back in the day when i was a kid to hear somebody mention hey this is a former colonna buckaroo greg adams or whatever you know and i always thought that was cool so i try to work that into the broadcast i don't do it all the time it can get distracting and you just don't have enough time to do it sometimes. But once in a while, I'll drop a mention in it. And specifically for that reason, because I remember what that meant to me when I was young. Well, when you think of hockey as a kid, like I always go back and, okay, I got this present, that present. I remember this, you know, pair of, you know, hockey skates or whatever.

Was there anything from Christmas time as a kid that particularly stands out for you? I got an old, I don't know how old they were when I got them, but a pair of Dau skates that I loved. We used to live next to a pond that would freeze over growing up in Kelowna in the wintertime. And I'd go out there and dad would shovel off a couple hundred square feet of snow

for me to go skate in this bumpy old pond. But these old Dau skates that uh tube skates that i actually it's funny you mentioned that because i went online the other day to see if i could see it find a picture of them and i think i found them but i i couldn't quite remember exactly how they look but gosh i must have been seven years old maybe six at the time and that was a christmas gift so that's definitely something that sticks out to me in terms of hockey related did you pronounce them dao because we used to always pronounce them doused back then i probably said doused same you know when it changed when dan dow got traded yeah you became a maple leaf

hey i'm a western canadian you expect me to understand the french accent those are what's your favorite hockey memory as a player as a player I understand the French accent. Those are great. What's your favorite hockey memory as a player? As a player? I don't have a lot because I quit when I was so young, but my memory is how bad a skater I was, not being able to keep up with anybody. Honestly, I think the last year I played hockey,

I was probably nine. So, yeah, I don't have a ton. I love that. Friends of mine wanted me to play, right? So they convinced me to come out, and that's how I got that. I love that. Friends of mine wanted me to play, right? So they would, like, they convinced me to come out, and that's how I got started. I love the game as well. I wanted to try it.

But I gravitated towards playing football at about that age as well, played flag right after that. So I have more memories playing football because I played it as I got older than hockey in terms of the playing side of it. Okay, I asked you about the Buckaroos. You were the former play-by-play voice of the Rockets as well. When I say Kelowna Rockets, what comes to your mind right away?

Hmm. Kelowna comes right away. I would have to say, in the time I was there, probably the process of trying to get a new arena built. Because they played, when they moved from Tacoma, they played in the old Memorial Arena, which was a mid-century sort of, it's a war memorial arena built in the early 50s, I think.

So one of those great old rinks, but not really what you would expect for major junior hockey. I think it only sat under 2,000 people. The ice surface – I was just talking about this with Greg Millen the other day because as an old goalie, we're talking about the old Boston Garden and the odd in Buffalo and all those rinks that had the small Chicago, of course, he played there, and how it changed the game. But the rink at Kelowna Memorial Arena, the ice surface, was 20 feet shorter than regular.

It was 180 by 85, so it was 20 feet shorter and 5 feet narrower. You know what? That's St. Mike's Arena in Toronto. We had the exact same thing. St. Mike's was the same. Well, I remember skating in there, like playing in there as a kid, and then the end boards. Like, I'm 6'4", so if I would go on the ice even fully grown,

the boards on the ends were like at almost a head height. Like, they were really tall, and they were like concrete. It was like hitting a wall. So it was this kind of cool old-school arena, but totally underserving the level of hockey that had come to town, and they had a deal in place when the team moved to get a rink built, and it all fell apart, and it was a really tough four years for the Rockets. It's interesting now because they're one of the cornerstone franchises in the CHL.

The Hamiltons still own it, do a great job there. I did it for five years, and the first four were in the old rink, and for those four years, it was on shaky ground because they were having trouble getting an arena built. It was a tough deal financially because they couldn't put more than 1,850 people in the building. And then they finally got the arena done. And as a guy who had been in Kelowna all my life at that point,

to see that arena get built really meant something to me. We had a similar deal fall through for a new rank prior to that. The Kelowna Wings were there, you may recall, back in the early 80s. They did have a Western League team for a few years that wound up becoming the Spokane Chiefs because they left because they couldn't get an arena done. That deal fell apart. And then we waited for another 14, 15 years to get a new rink when I was still living in Kelowna.

So it really meant a lot to me to see that happen as a guy who was from there and to see, A, that it secured the Western Hockey League. It's been a fixture there now since. And, B, a lot of the stuff that we weren't getting in a city that was growing and a real nice place to be, all just in terms of concerts and performances and conventions and all the things that you get with the new building started to come. And, of course, I left shortly after that and went to the coast,

so I didn't get to enjoy it that much. But that's the thing that sticks out to me. Now, on the hockey side, it was really cool just to be on like I think about all of the great players I got to watch play in the five years I was there Marianne Hosea, Jerome McGinley, you know Patrick Marlowe like so many guys who went on to be stars of the National Hockey League I knew it was a great league but to see that up close and personal for half a decade and then see those guys go on and have the incredible careers they did really cements to me that it's the best junior league in the world, obviously.

And it was a great place to cut my teeth as a play-by-play guy and try and get half decent at what I do. Let me ask you about one player specifically who I believe was there while you were calling. I think that we've unfortunately totally forgotten how good Scott Hannon was as a defenseman. He was one of my favorite players when he played.

What was it like to call him a junior? Just saw him. I was just in San Jose before Christmas and had a nice chat with Scott. He bumped into him on the elevator. He'll talk to him every chance I get. So I watched him from a 16-year-old right through the last year that he played junior before he went on to the NHL. I told him this story.

We're doing a game at Kelowna. Tim Burke is the head of scouting for San Jose. And, you know, when you do junior hockey on the radio, you're by yourself half the time. And I asked him, I saw him before the game, I go, hey, can you come up on the first intermission and be my guest? So he comes on, we talk a little bit.

He was a great guest. Anyway, the intermission ends, we're on commercial break. And before he leaves, he goes, who do you like on the Rockets? I said, Scott Hanna. Now, I'm not telling any, like, it's not like he didn't know what scott hannah was at that point the guy was a highly touted prospect i said i've called every game he's done in the western hockey league and he's i don't think i've ever seen him get beat 101 and then of course they wind up taking him in the first round of the draft and he goes on to play over a thousand games so did you apply for a

job after that rick like did you say like where did you send the invoice found him i found him when i saw scott the other day i said i'm still waiting for my check from you buddy i think you know who knows what would happen if i hadn't had that conversation so he was a really good junior he scored more in junior as a lot of guys do but i knew he'd be a steady eddie you know he was always built like that as a even as a teenager kind of a thick-chested guy just strong and uh i was not surprised at all he had a long career because he was a really good player really good loved okay so favorite call like or favorite game favorite moment of your nhl career as a play-by-play guy well i mean obviously the game seven the flames

and the dallas stars last year went to over anytime you have a playoff game in Game 7, go to overtime on home ice, the team wins. That was a lot of fun. Gaudreau scores that big goal. That was incredible. Gaudreau in front. Heads it past Alito. Stopped by Onger.

Took out by Gaudreau. Scores! And all I think about when people ask me about the call, I don't think it was particularly great, but what I do remember is to shut up because the crowd was going crazy. I learned this from a lot of the guys that I really enjoy as play-by-play guys, to sometimes just let the pitcher speak for themselves. And how do you top that, right?

Guy scores in overtime in Game 7 on home ice in the playoff series. The building's going nuts. They cut to the crowd outside. You see stuff flying up in the air. I'm like, just lay out. So that was a lot of fun. The best game I got to do was that Halloween game in Nashville a couple years ago where Kachuk scored the overtime winner on the chop between the legs.

Oh, between the legs, yeah. We'll break out with a long pass to Lindholm. Brody going to the goal. Lindholm to the middle of the shot block. Kachuk scores! Matthew Kachuk, what a goal! Less than a second left in overtime. Kachuk with a beauty, and the Flames complete the comeback and win 6-5 in Nashville.

Seriously, I don't know what to make of what we've just witnessed here, Rick. And did he go between his legs on that goal? Yes, he did. Absolutely, he did. That was an unbelievable finish. I couldn't believe what I saw. It took me a second for it to register how he scored. But what gets forgotten is they had come from behind

and he scored with like 20 seconds left to tie the game in the first place. So that had a bit of everything. So that was, you know, it was kind of a mean nothing middle of the season game. But in terms of excitement, it's definitely right up there with the most fun games I've had a chance to call. That is one of the great comebacks in Calgary Flames history. What a goal.

Were you celebrating that game because it meant that you could get out to Broadway? Like you were just mad it went to overtime? Yeah, I'm always disappointed when they go, well, I think we might have departed right after that. Although I might have taken a tour up and down through a few of the honky-tonks the night before. It's mandatory. It is mandatory.

Absolutely mandatory. When in Rome. This has been great. Listen, go back and top off your glass. Thanks so much as always for stopping by. Great to hear your voice. Great to hear you in good health. And boy, it's just great to hear you calling Flames Games.

Thanks so much for this, Rick. Much appreciated. Hey, Jeff and Ali, thank you very much for having me on. You guys do a great job. Love the show. And best of the season to all of you. Take care. Got some buckaroos talking there, Frege. Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr on and I've always maintained that this industry needs two things people with more ink and pro wrestling backgrounds and our next guest here on the party has both uh he's Blake Murphy he's one

half of the fan drive time show Monday to Friday on fan 590 in Toronto Blake Murphy how are you today sir I am excellent that's a great introduction that's a great tagline for what I bring to the table uh nice to talk to you guys. Elliot's going to play bartender now. Go ahead, Frej. Well, first of all, before we start peppering you with questions, we always ask someone if there's something they'd like to sip, whether alcoholic or non-alcoholic. Do you have a preference? This time of year, I'm going to ask for a hot toddy. Nice. So my dad swore by that all you needed if you were under the weather or to warm up or anything like that is a hot toddy. So just like boiling water, whiskey, honey.

I know some people like the cinnamon in it. I go with lemon instead. It's time of year. I have to say that during one of the nhl's uh lockouts which was 2013 gary lawless who's now in vegas and was covering it for the winnipeg free press at the time he introduced me to the hot toddy i was never a big fan but we had some cold nights in manhattan and he said look you want to warm up this is what you do and i am a fan so blake you are a man of great taste i am very appreciative i would almost guarantee that i had several hot toddies around that same time because i was interning in

edmonton at that point and i don't know if you guys know this being nhl guys if you were in edmonton during an nhl lockout as a sports writing intern there is not a lot of stuff to do or work to do. So I had to fill in the gaps between like high school volleyball tournaments and U of A wrestling tournaments and stuff like that somehow. Well, Blake, you are clearly a gentleman, a scholar, and a judge of good liquor. So welcome to the program. You will be right at home here.

I'm going to ask this open-ended, and I'm hoping you can maybe, I'm going to try to bias the jury here. When I think sports around Christmas, I always think of growing up and going to see wrestling at Maple Leaf Gardens on Boxing Day. For our American friends, that's December 26th. Tony used to always run a show, was the only promoter in North America that did it,

so they drew in a bunch of talent from all over, Florida, Georgia, different parts of Canada, Michigan. And it was a really cool card. When I say sports around Christmas, Blake Murphy, and I'm crossing my fingers, hoping you have something wrestling to offer. What comes to your mind? Unfortunately, I don't have much wrestling to offer. Um, I don't want to age you you but i would have been a little too young for those oh yeah these shows um i have gone they do house shows at uh coca-cola coliseum right before new year's every year i've gone to those a couple times and they're just like the small like nothing's televised no big names really but i actually i ran into yannis and ted akumpo and a couple of the bucks there one year they were just just in Toronto a year early.

So that's my best holiday wrestling memory. For me, though, the sports thing. So my parents are separated. My dad lives in Newfoundland now. But when he still lived here, it was we did Christmas Day at my mom's. And we did Boxing Day at my dad's. And that's when we'd open the presents and have a Christmas dinner and stuff. But the reason we did Boxing Day with my dad was we would build it around the world junior opener every boxing day obviously for me christmas day is a big nba day five games in a row you just

kind of keep half an eye on it while you're opening presents and getting drunk with family and stuff like that but until my dad moved back to Newfoundland a few years ago, yeah, the Boxing Day, Christmas built around whatever time the World Junior Opener was at is the big holiday sports one for me. I see you're on Twitter. You're very well-rounded. I mean, I know you first and primarily from your Raptors coverage, so you're always tweeting about Raptors and basketball.

But you tweet about hockey hockey you tweet about wrestling you tweet about UFC and you're you're very knowledgeable in all of this stuff what is your favorite and you don't have to say hockey just because you're on the podcast it might endear you more to the listeners but you don't have to say hockey by the way way, it's not even our favorite, Blake, so go ahead, pick another one. Yeah, from a playing standpoint, it's definitely hockey. Hockey is the one that I'm best at, that I've played the most, that I, you know, if you threw me out there on a basketball court or a baseball field or an ice rink, I'd be way more at home on the rink.

From a coverage standpoint, though, and like as a fan, I would lean basketball. Baseball and basketball are kind of a 1A, 1B. They just scratch very different itches for me. Basketball is so entertaining. It's so personality driven. It's so fun to write about and be at all the games. And then baseball is just like, well, yeah, I'm a giant nerd and like numbers. So here's all the numbers you could possibly want. I'll say basketball for the purposes of giving an answer. But the reason that I'm, you know,

I still tweet about all those things and talk about all those things is because I like them all. What kind of hockey player were you? Not a very good one. Give us a scouting report on yourself. And what level did you play to? I got up as high as a I think I probably did like a cup of coffee at triple-a at one point but I wasn't very good like I'm five

foot ten I was a defenseman kind of like a not a stay at home but like a steady pair of hands like enough to if it gives you any idea like I transitioned from being a defenseman in hockey to being a defenseman in lacrosse pretty seamlessly so you were dirty you used to chop people and yeah like once people caught up to my size like I was 5'9 or 5'10 like early and then everyone else kind of outgrew me as far as defensemen go but yeah the the sales pitch for lacrosse when I stopped playing travel hockey was hey what if you could play hockey defense, but the stick is legal? And that was a very easy sell for me. You know, usually at that age, when you say I'm a stay-at-home defenseman, usually that means I'm not fast enough to join the rush.

So I get it. Trust me. No, the opposite, honestly. Really? Yeah. So when I stopped playing travel, so around the time I was time I was I think 16 that's around when my parents separated and then like the driving toll and the cost toll of playing rep like my dad was kind of like dude you're not gonna make any junior like what are we doing here that's when I started playing lacrosse and I started wrestling uh and I went down to house

league for hockey and I just played once a week and then I moved to forward and I was like leading it was the best it's like you score way more points you're you go from being like the fifth defenseman to being like the number one center it was great the speed wasn't an issue it's more the size once you got to the contact ages tell us about wrestling tell us about that because I one of my best friends is Sean Pearson who fought in UFC. He's got an amateur background. We work out together and every now and then he'll say like, Hey, let's spar. And I'm like, Oh God, here we go. I've never even come close to taking them down. I've never come close. Like even somebody do like, Hey, let's just hit shoulders and knees. I haven't come close. Like he just like does whatever he it's, it's, it's humiliating. What kind of wrestler were you? It's humiliating. What kind of wrestler were you? Again, not a very good one. So this is why you try a bunch of different sports when you're done playing the one you thought you were good at,

to find out where your strengths lie. I really liked wrestling. So the high school that I went to in Cambridge, Ontario, it's called Monsignor Doyle. It was a small, like 750 or 800 students. It was like the smallest of, I don't know, seven or eight high schools in Cambridge. And we weren't good at anything for sports, except we had won like 15 straight district wrestling championships. It made no sense. Like there was a high school in our district that was very heavily like farmer

and there's a Mennonite community not far outside of Cambridge. So you get all these dudes who look like they're full-grown adults, and Monsignor Doyle would just dust them. It's from drinking farm water their whole lives. Trust me, we see that. I'm in the OM, my kids play in OMHA. We see that when we go to some of these towns. Like, holy smokes, where'd this mutant come from?

Yeah, and obviously there are weight classes, but it's still intimidating when, you know, I have the most facial hair on my team and that's like bad sideburns and these guys come in with full beards. No, but so because in large part because we had this coach, his name was Chris Lowry or Mr. Lowry. He's retired now. An awesome, awesome gym teacher and wrestling coach from London who would come into Cambridge as one of our teachers. He was the best. And yeah, for that reason, we had just all this success at the high school district level. I think I finished as best as like third in a tournament once. But that was pretty good.

Yeah, we're not talking like offs or anything though like that's like a regular district tournament i was kind of just a guy and this is similar to like i don't know this comes up a lot in my life where like i i'm spiritually the backup catcher in every sport where it's just like yeah i'm around good vibes i'll like hold the clipboard help manage the team if one of the good players who I'm friends with needs something, I'm there. So I was like, Nick Gavel was one of my best friends in high school, and he was probably our best wrestler. I was like, yeah, Blake, stay after practice for like an hour

so Nick can get extra work in. That's the kind of teammate I was. Wrestling dummy. That was you. You're the wrestling dummy. Throw him around. I look at it this way, Blake. The battle is showing up, man. That's half the battle like you're talking down your

hockey you're talking down your wrestling you were there a lot of other people would have left so i'm impressed now i wanted to talk to you about like your route here uh right now you and ben ennis uh co-host the uh afternoon drive on the fan in Toronto. You also did a lot of Blue Jays last year. I think you co-hosted like the pre and post game stuff, right? Not the broadcast, but before and after the broadcast came on. You love your Jays. What was your kind of path here?

Yeah, so it's a long and kind of convoluted one. So for anyone who doesn't know, I have a business degree. I was working for Toyota. And I spent a couple of years just kind of writing on the side for fun. And at one point I was enrolled in law school and I was like, I don't think this is for me. And I don't know. I know that feeling. Yeah, I know that feeling.

Yes. So eventually I decided, you know what, I'm going to try the sports thing. And I went back to school to get a master's of journalism, but I didn't finish it. It was more about Elliot, you know, Catherine Gretzinger from CBC and from UBC. She was an awesome kind of mentor and advisor when I was there. And at one point, I had some job offers in the industry. It was like, well, that's going to be way more helpful than the piece of paper, because if this doesn't work out, I'm not going back to I'm not going back to journalism.

I'll go use my business degree. But at that point in time, I was doing everything like I was blogging about the Canucks and the Leafs living out in Vancouver. I was trying to write for just about every baseball analytics site. I was out at the Sloan Sports sports analytics conference in boston a couple times and at that point i i think i was probably more considered like an analytics guy than a than a basketball guy and then those analytics people all started like learning programming and learning how to do like actual math and then like with hockey and wrestling i kind of got left behind and then

so yeah so when i landed uh i worked at the score for two years and originally the idea was I could be this versatile piece that would bounce around. And then really, really quickly, I had kind of gotten established as one of our top basketball people. I'd also for a long time written at and helped run Raptors Republic, which is like one of the I think probably the longest running Raptors blog. And we've, you know, we've produced a ton of writing talent around the city and around basketball. It was so cool. During the NBA finals, I think there were eight people credentialed who had at one point written for Raptors Republic. So the combination of those things just kind of made it so basketball was where my career path was going. just kind of made it so basketball was where my career path was going. And then when I went freelance full-time, I did the odd baseball or wrestling or rugby thing,

but I was more established on basketball. And if you've done freelance before, you've got to follow where your opportunities are coming. And that was primarily on basketball for me. So yeah, the opportunity to come to Sportsnet and do a little bit more, show I could do a little bit more than writing and a little bit more than just basketball has been really fun. What do you ultimately want to do? I don't have a good answer for that. That's okay. Cause I'm the same. I've always been the same way. Like I'm not someone that sets goals. I just wake up and say every day,

I'm going to work hard and I'm going to see what happens. Yeah. And like so much of my career has been like, get to the next thing. And it's like, okay, see if this works and then see if I can get a job and then see if I can make it work doing my own thing. And then each kind of successive step. So you don't really, at least the path I took, you don't really get to set like five-year goals. I like doing it all though. I like doing TV and radio. I miss writing a little bit right now where I haven't written in a couple months. Yeah. And then sport wise, I don't really care either. It's just like at the end of the day, it's just talking about sports or writing about sports. There's not a bad path from here, I don't think. Okay. So I introduced you as a heavily

inked broadcaster and there's not enough of us, damn it. What's your next piece going to be? Or are you done? Well, I'm not done. I'm done for right now. So I actually just finished my second sleeve. So my arms are completely done. There's no more room unless I become like a hand tattoo guy, which I don't think I'm going to do.

My wife just got hers done. It looks great. The hands? Yeah, she got her right hand done. It looks fantastic. I'm of the mind it looks better on women than men, the hand tattoo. But maybe that'll change now that my sleeves are finished.

You're running out of space, bud. You might want to rethink your idea. No, I think I'd probably go thigh next. But I got to take a little break because, Jeff, you know this. Getting tattoos is time intensive. And that's a lot of disposable income to finish two sleeves over a decade decade yeah but i i don't know what it's like for you now but like once upon a time like my back i did uh six and a half hours all at once and no problem but now like now that i'm a little bit older three hours three and a half now that's when i that's when it starts to feel spicy for me

do you have that yet are you getting that like I got to tap out after three hours now. I'm not as tough as I used to be. I've never tapped out. I haven't gone as long as like six and a half hours. I think my longest session was probably like five hours or something like that. That's long, man. I think a good part of it is I've worked with the same couple of artists several times. And once you have a relationship with the artist the time goes

by a little easier true um or you know the one artist i have is like if it's not a day where we're chatty or it's a spot where it's really really painful just throw on like a true crime podcast or something and just try to zone out best you can is there anyone that's particularly meaningful to you oh yeah yeah they all have like some sort of meaning somewhere. Like I have, for example, my late grandfather who is on the Newfoundland side. Like I have a big puffin on my left arm because when I would go visit in the summers when I was little, I was like obsessed with them. Oh, wow. That's cool.

when I was little, I was like obsessed with them. Oh, wow. That's cool. And as part of that, part of what we built out there, it also has like my grandfather's tags from the Korean War on there as well. So that's great. Wow. That's an example of one. I have one for, it doesn't like say their name or anything like that, but one of one each for like my brothers and my nephew and my mom.

Like just especially like as i got down to the like running out of space it was so easy to find little fillers that are just like kind of wink wink to this family member or this thing from my life but this is the most sports related one that i have and it's gonna sound stupid but i have a little cartoon moose and it's my own drawing so what happened there was during the raptors championship season i've always taken handwritten notes during raptors games and people get a kick out of like i use a shorthand and have messy writing so it looks like scribbles but sometimes instead of using a player's initials or a player's number i would like draw a little symbol for them and when the raptors had g Monroe whose nickname is Moose he was supposed to be

like the 15th man never play and I would draw when he checked in a little moose and I'm a terrible drawer but he started playing enough that I was drawing a moose like almost every game and my moose drawings were getting better and then both the raptors centers got hurt so he was like starting games and at one point someone was like oh if the raptors win the championship you got to get that tattooed and i was like being a smart ass i was like sure if the raptors win the championship i'll get this tattooed um the worst part is about like i i went through with it obviously after the raptors won the championship, but they traded Greg Monroe away at the trade deadline and then played against him in the playoffs. But I didn't feel comfortable getting a Raptors tattoo or something like that.

So that's kind of my commemorative, I covered an NBA championship tattoo. That is very cool. Listen, this has been a lot of fun. Listen, best to you and your family at the holiday time. Merry Christmas, best of the new year to you and your family. And let's catch up soon, Blake. It's been a lot of fun. Listen, best to you and your family at the holiday time. Merry Christmas. Best of the new year to you and your family. And let's catch up soon, Blake. It's been a lot of fun.

Yeah, thanks so much, guys. Appreciate you having me. Appreciate the hot toddy, Elliot. No, great that you mentioned it. And have an awesome holiday and a great 2023. Your star is rising. It is. You know, Elliot, our next guest in a previous life

worked for both the Nashville Predators and the Florida Panthers in the scouting departments. He now does some of that for us here. He's also an analyst, and he's also a bon vivant and a man about town and someone that we all lean on and want to know what's going on. He is Jason Buchla, and he joins us here on the uh the holiday extravaganza books how are you today i'm great uh i don't i have no idea what you just said because i'm just a hockey scout but i'm

fantastic thank you very much okay well the one thing we know about hockey scouts is they don't like their cups to be dry they like them to be runneth over what's in your uh in your mug these days my wife michelle and i are huge craft beer connoisseurs like we've been touring around doing the craft beer thing all over the place so i'm a logger she's an ipa but anything craft beer logger local like at the world juniors if i happen upon something out there i'm having it for sure okay give give your favorite one a plug here on the show. What's your favorite craft brew? Oh, well, Powerhouse Brewery here in London is our go-to favorite right now.

Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. So around this time of year, for you traditionally, and however many years back, it's all been about tournaments. And not just the World Juniors or the U20s, but there's all kinds of tournaments, both in North America and overseas as well. Do you have a favorite?

Do you have like one favorite tournament you've ever been at? Maybe it's because of one dynamic performance by one player. Maybe it's a dominant team. Maybe it's just you had a good time. Is there one favorite tournament in your history? Well, let me predate my time in the NHL and satisfy.

You love this stuff, Jeff. Like the Toronto Marlies tournament when I was working with the Sioux Greyhounds way back in the day. The Marlies was always, you know, it was always the whippy silver stick. But everybody looked forward to the Marlies, right? And that was a lot of fun. It was just action-packed. And that was always a fun event to go to. My favorite overseas event, I have to say World Juniors Helsinki, what are we talking here, 2015, I guess, turning into 2016,

like the Puli Arvi team, when Finland won it there, that place was just electric. It was probably my most satisfying World Juniors that I've ever been to. It was awesome. Was that the top line? Was it Puglia, R.V., Line A, and Ajo? It was, yeah.

And then on the back end, the right shot D that Dallas drafted since going back. I'm dating myself off the top of my head here. Honka honka exactly honka and he had the brother too right elliot um so the atmosphere was absolutely electric and if you guys have been over there uh in the big rink in helsinki uh where yokerit played it's sitting it it's kind of sad because it's just sitting there right now right with what's going on in

the world but um uh it But it was just outstanding. And the Finns, they know how to throw a party. And when they're winning, it's double downtime over there. So, you know, Jason, what I wanted to ask you was your path. Like you're on Sportsnet now, and many people will know that you spent about 15 years with the Panthers. But you talked about Sault Ste. Marie. How did you get from London to here?

So thanks for the question. It's, I don't get asked it often enough. And I think that people have to understand that to become an NHL scout or to become anything in the NHL, the journey, if you're not a player, it's like an apprenticeship that never ends. And when I was done playing junior hockey in St. Mary's and Stratford I was a goalie I immediately got into coaching and coaching led me through the junior ranks like junior development hockey in the area then junior B in St. Mary's and as a GM there and I was fortunate because Dave Torrey who's a pro scout for the LA Kings got hired as the GM in Sioux St. Marie Craig Hartsburg it was a lockout time and Craig Hartsburg

ended up coming back to us in the Sault. We had Jeff Carter there. We had a heck of a team back then. Anyways, he brought me on as a director of player personnel in Sault Ste. Marie. I stayed there for four years. We had a really successful run. And as you guys know, success breeds opportunity. So a lot of NHL guys are rubbing elbows with me, just asking about our players. And I got hired in Nashville to start. Paul Fenton gave me my opportunity in Nashville. I interviewed one summer, didn't get it. It went to Gord Donnelly. I kind of stuck with it.

I got it. Stayed in Nashville for five years. Dale Tallon takes over in Florida. Scott Luce and I have a history together. You know, really Scott and Dale bring me over from Nashville. I have a history together. You know, really, Scott and Dale bring me over from Nashville. And then, to be honest with you, it was never a goal to be a director of scouting in Florida.

We had an awesome, awesome staff there, like Aaron Janelle, Scott Luce, Al Tour. I mean, these guys are some of the best people, best human beings you're going to find on the tour. Unfortunately, we went through some upheaval there. Tom Rowe decided that he wanted to make some changes and i ended up being the director so am i grateful for the journey absolutely um am i fortunate a hundred percent you know now i get to rub elbows with guys like yourselves and and it's been really oh boy yeah but it's been energizing you know like it's interesting and it's been energizing i'm really really having a it's been energizing. I'm really, really having a lot of fun doing what I'm doing now. One of the things that I always love asking scouts, because everyone's got a different story, is who's the one player you thought was absolutely can't miss who missed?

Oh, wow. That's a there's somebody every year, right? Wow. There's somebody every year, right? As far as guys that we drafted, I have to say that in the 2016 draft in Florida, when we were going through those changes, we had a couple of picks in there that I thought were going to be at least better than what they turned out to be. And in the second round, we drafted Adam Askren, who was coming off like an incredible junior career and scoring a ton in Kitchener.

But having said that, I thought that he would be like a middle six power play guy. You've stumped me a bit only because there's been a lot. I hate to say it like that. Scouting is not an exact science. You have to hit on your first and second round guys the guy that though that comes to mind is henrik borkstrom for sure he's the one that i keep coming back to henrik borkstrom's in the washington organization now he was our first round pick in 2016 he might have been and i think if you ask most scouts on the tour he might have been one of the best

college players after he was drafted that we've ever seen like this guy was absolutely electric with the puck brian mccabe thought he was a can't miss as seen. Like this guy was absolutely electric with the puck. Brian McCabe thought he was a can't miss as well with us, but it just never worked out. And without going into it too deeply, I would say that given the state of the world right now, one of the things of Borgi was he wasn't prepared between the years. He wasn't mature enough yet.

And I think we could have done a better job developing him and taking care of him off the ice to maximize his potential. And I think teams ever since that time, 2016, are doing a much better job of doing that. That was the 2016 draft, right? Where you guys grabbed Bergstrom and Adam Askren? Yeah.

That was 2016? Then we got Stillman in the fourth that year. It was the next year that you guys almost set the franchise up for a decade. Tell us about pick number 40 and tell us about pick number 39 of the 2017 draft. It's a good one. This is the fun part of scouting. And so we're at the draft and we're sitting relatively close to the front.

And to the left of us this is the chicago draft and to the left of us is the dallas table joe mcdonnell jim nill and so dale tallent and i are sitting obviously at the front of our table and we're managing our list as we always do we're sitting on a player and we're sitting on a player and it's like do we want to make a trade are we just and you know you're rolling the dice you're sitting there getting nervous Like, do we want to make a trade? Are we just, you know, you're rolling the dice. You're sitting there getting nervous.

Well, it comes to pick number 39, and from five feet away from me, Joe McDonnell announces Jason Robertson. And Dale and I look at each other, like just gobstop. And then, you know, you're trying to be cool about it. You keep looking straight ahead at the screen, right? But, you know, we're irritated. We're not happy at this point in time. So in the little three minutes you get in between picks, we selected Hepa Nami next at 40.

Swift current, yeah. Yeah, and he was a hell of a junior, boy. Oh, I saw, yeah. The Memorial Cup, yeah. Cup of coffee right now in Florida, but I'm not sure it's going to work out. But can you imagine if we would have got Robertson? But to Joel McDonnell's credit, well,

I can't even say to you what we said on the floor to each other. I can't. The interaction between, especially Joe, Dale, and I, it was classic. Joe McDonnell is one of the best guys historically at drafting players. Well, that's why I think a lot of people wonder,

well, why did they just move up three picks to take this player? Because at the time, people watching aren't scouts and they don't understand the value of these guys and sometimes you know moving up a few picks to get the player that you want even though it costs you a you know a couple of picks later on in the draft like it's stories like this where you go oh if you're a panthers fan why didn't we move up a couple of picks to make sure that we got the guy that we wanted you know what we would have had to do jeff

is we would have to to do, Jeff, is we would have had to get on the horn with whoever was picking two or three picks in front of Dallas. And, you know, it wouldn't have been like a Dallas call because obviously they were sitting on the same player. But you're absolutely right. And, you know, that's the roll of the dice at the draft. I mean, if you look at the Mackenzie Wieger pick, going way back to whatever, New Jersey in 14, I guess,

like we were sitting on Mackenzie Weger and, you know, he had in his back pocket invites to training camps, like development camps, but we were sitting on him. We turned to Dale and told him to call Burge in Montreal and tell him we wanted to flip our sevenths. And Burge didn't, like he was out of players on his list. So Burge says, yeah, I'll take your seventh next year. And we're like, perfect.

We'll take your seventh right now. And we sat there, we sat there and there's a story in reverse order for you because you know, third, last pick of that draft becomes McKenzie Weeger. And yeah, we made a trade to get an extra pick. So you got to stay alive right to the seventh round, I guess is the moral of that story. Do you have to tell teams who you're going to take if, so they don't lose their guy when you're making those kinds of deals? No, no, no, we don't have to do that at all. I don't, I can't recall, at least in the conversations that I've had, Elliot, with other teams, when we're proposing things, that's never come up on my watch. I can't say for sure that that hasn't been a conversation

in the top couple of rounds, if you're doing something like that with the general managers. Because there are some times that a prospect might be involved in those transactions or there might be a roster player as well. So clearly the general manager is having a conversation. And I'm very busy on the floor. You guys have been on the floor. You see the way it is. And I'm very busy on the floor managing a lot of things.

And yeah, I've never had that conversation. very busy on the floor managing a lot of things and um yeah i've never had that that conversation what is the biggest fight you've ever seen in a draft room over a player or a list or a list well okay um we never really fought too much in nashville there's a lot of continuity in nashville um in florida the makeup of our room was a little bit more aggressive by trade, I guess you could say. One of the better heated discussions, and I was 100 percent wrong on it. I don't have to sugarcoat it, was we really a lot of our staff were looking at Adam Fox at that same draft in Buffalo. And as much as some people on my side of the room, not because I'm not dividing the room. I'm just saying people on you know on my side of the room not because I'm not dividing the room I'm just saying where we were sitting on my side it was like a lot of people in the room

there's a lot of action in that draft because we were transitioning a lot our large group of people but I have to say that Billy Ryan who's now in Montreal he really pushed for Adam Fox and it got heated that conversation went on for a good 35 or 40 minutes it was one of those uh it was like well it's christmas time it was like you know the pope we were voting for the pope type thing like we took 10 votes on who was gonna get drafted at this time and uh anyways i missed on that one that um that one got very heated and um full disclosure i wasn't sure that his playmaking ability, we know what he is, right?

He's outstanding with the puck, playmakers, sees plays develop before they actually happen, makes plays through seams. I wasn't sure that he could play fast enough and defend so that his element could produce the way it has in the NHL and boy, was I wrong. I love draft stories.

So I'm not going to say the names of these two managers to protect the guilty here. But one of the funniest things I ever saw at a draft on the floor was I was watching this one table and one manager walked over. And these two managers were standing there and one was holding something in his hand, like way above his head. And the other one was jumping up trying to grab it. I'm like, what the heck is this? And so after the draft, I asked one of the scouts who was at the table, like, what was

that all about? And he said, oh, this one manager, and again, I'm not saying who it is, called our table and asked if our manager had any cigarettes because he was really nervous about something without a cigarettes or something. So he came over and our manager made him like held it up and made him jump in front of everybody. And the other table had to tell them, had to tell them to stop because they were embarrassing themselves. Made one manager jump for cigarettes. That was the funniest thing I ever saw on the floor. Books. Is there anything, I don't know if it's similar, obviously not

similar, but is there anything that you can think of that you looked at like, wow, that's really funny right over there at that table? Well, I haven't seen that, the jumping jack thing or Reno for smokes. That's for sure. I have seen, can I, I'm going to show you two fantastic stories. I had a guy on my staff. I'm not going to tell you who he is. He's no longer, well, I'm no longer in Florida and neither is he. But when we were hosting the draft in Florida, on the Friday after round one he went to the the pro shop to buy a draft the

memorabilia for some people back home well he gets back to this hotel and he calls back he says you know oh i got you this it's in size large that's inside me so the person on the other end says well that's those are all the wrong sizes you know and whatever so the guy's flying out immediately after the the saturday so he's running our computer at our table. It's like roll call. And I'm looking around. He's nowhere to be found. And I look up in the player section there

with the agents and the parents. Here comes our scout running down the stairs with two bags full of memorabilia. Roll calls already happened because he went shopping before the draft started. I just, I was- I've seen that before. I was absolutely disgusted.

I was disgusted. The other one that I'm going to say and this one blows my mind, but especially in today's day and age, I have sat at the table where a general manager, I don't know how much time he spent, but he spent time writing out on like three ring binder paper or a notepad in his hotel room, all of the players

available in his organization and come around and handed them to our general managers at the table meanwhile we have the computer like we can look at your depth chart you just could pick up the phone and tell us i don't know how much time he took writing on all these lists and you know pen and paper but uh that i thought was a little uh it was like something from the caveman era you you know? Now, before we let you go, Jason, what have you learned about being in media that you didn't realize? And the answer is not that we're a bunch of slobs.

Like, give us something else besides that. Although that is true. Well, no, not even close from where I come from, I'll tell you right now. You guys are, you guys are proven proper. The one thing that I will say is that my role is to give a different perspective, as you guys know, kind of food for thought. And my role is to give some background insight into the process that goes on with decision making at every level, the draft, the NHL, free agency, you name it, whatever you guys want.

Like, you know, Jeff wants to talk to me about A, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to respond to that. The most curious thing I find, especially on the.ca side is people don't take enough time to read the details of what you're proposing and they immediately get emotional and jump to a response that's, you know, at times aggressive. And it's my first taste, you know, doing that and getting it all the time, I guess. So I've learned not to read the responses anymore. The one thing that I have learned is that exactly that i love the passion out there especially in the canadian markets i like that i can feed the bear once in a while and it's going to go one way or the other

but the other thing that i've really enjoyed is that i can just stay true to my belief like here it is take it or leave it and i'm not looking to mislead anybody or tick anybody off in the process. I'm just giving you the goods because behind closed doors, owners are involved. Agents are involved. People have young families. They have babies. The wife doesn't want to move. They don't want to live in that market. There's a lot of moving parts. So I try and propose as much as I can with as much clarity. And then it's interesting to see the feedback. By the way, speaking of that,

I love your piece with Ryan Dixon on possible destinations for Bo Horvat. That to me, and I think a lot of viewers as well and listeners and readers is catnip. Total, total catnip. Keep more like those coming. Cause you're right. You provide a,

a different take in a, an opening to areas that I don't think fans are necessarily accustomed to. So listen, man, have a great rest of your holiday. We'll check back soon. You're the best. Thanks so much for stopping by. Thanks, guys. Happy holidays, and I appreciate you taking the time to have me on today. She's one of our favorites.

She's one of the best, Elliot. She's Emily Kaplan from ESPN. She joins us at the 32 Thoughts Holiday Party. Emily, how are you? I'm doing great. I feel honored that I'm part of this. I appreciate you asking me. Oh, please.

We're really glad to have you. You class it up. Yeah, exactly. We're really glad to have you. You class it up. Yeah, exactly. About time we brought some class to the joint. Speaking of which, what can we pour into your mug or your tumbler? Oh, that's a great question. Well, right now I'm sipping tea because it is Chicago winter, and that is what we typically sip.

But typically at night I change my hot beverages to a hot toddy, scotch, honey, and lemon. That's it, With water. Delicious. Okay. You know what I'm always curious about? Between the benches is such a fascinating position and talking to people that have done it, you have to have a very quick mute finger. As much as you can tell, without getting us all in hot water, what's the one thing that you really didn't want to mute, but because you wanted to save your job you had to so you want me to reveal it here i see i see i see um you know it's interesting because i

do feel like my position uh between the benches and my role i'm different than anyone who's ever done it i think you know a lot of people who have done it are analysts who are former players and they've kind of followed the same code of conduct of this is what should be shared on the broadcast. And I come at it from a reporter's point of view, where it's a privilege that I'm down there, and I want to share the best insights I have with serving the fan somewhere that no one else can be, and I want to take them there. So sometimes the chirps I do hear, I do share on air, and maybe the guys aren't super cool with it all the time. I feel like I'm always towing that line of what boundaries can I push not to cause harm or not to embarrass anyone. But I'll never forget, I mean, opening night, last season,

first game ESPN had in 17 years. I'm there in Tampa. They're playing the Pittsburgh Penguins. And I think I reported that Torrey Perry skated to the bench with a death glare at somebody. And for some reason, everyone thought that was super offensive but I'm like, what? He did. I don't see any problem with that.

Who's offended at that exactly? No, you know what? Maybe there was something else I said that was a little more revelatory but I've definitely reported to you on some of the actual chirps that I hear which I just find amusing. I just think it's high entertainment. I remember talking to Glenn Healy about this,

and I said, what was the worst game or series you ever worked as far as interplay between the benches? And he said, hands down, not even close, Chicago Blackhawks, Philadelphia Flyers, 2010 Stanley Cup Final. It was the saltiest, no-holes-barred, gloves-off from the opening puck drop. Is there one game for you that stands out where you're like, oof, this is nasty. This isn't just, you know, clever chirping.

This is like really nasty between these two teams. You know, the most recent game I did between the Rangers and Blackhawks was interesting because there was actually blood between those two teams, even though they don't play very often. You know, it had to do with Jacob Truba and Andreas Afanasiou. And there was some carryover there. But honestly, last year, early in the season, October, I had a Vegas Golden Knights versus Colorado Avalanche game.

And Jonathan Marcheseau was sitting in the seat closest to me, which was an absolute treat because he was melting off the entire game. And that's when I heard the chirp that I feel like I've shared quite a few times, but someone on the Vegas bench just told Colorado, get out of the second round, why don't you? Which to me was the most piercing thing you could say to the Colorado Avalanche in that moment because of all of the playoff drama that they had. So that game to me, I was like, wow, these teams really don't like each other.

That's awesome. Now, Emily, you've had quite a journey. You were a sports writer before you became a sports broadcaster. What were your goals? Did you think that this would be where you would, I don't even want to say end up because you've got a huge career in front of you, but did you think that this would be where you'd be at this point in your career? No, I never dreamed of this. All I ever wanted to do was be a writer. I have serious middle child complex. I thought my dad hated me. So inherently to get closer to him,

I picked his profession. He was a Sunday sports editor at the New York Daily News while I was growing up. He was also a hockey fan. So we bonded over watching hockey games. But my dream was to be a writer. I went to the Penn State University because I said about Penn State, like we're Ohio State or just like that. But I chose it because we were the only school in the country at the time with a specific sports journalism major. I was print journalism. They made us pick a minor pretty much to safeguard us saying journalism is a tough field. I picked English because it was like what came easy to me. Worked for the school paper all four years, got a dream job at Sports Illustrated after college.

I, you know, I thought that was it. And, you know, I came over to ESPN again because of my love of hockey, because they gave me an opportunity to write for ESPN.com and own the hockey beat in that way. And then when we got the rights, I kind of just volunteered. Hey, I'd love to try some stuff on air. You'd give me the opportunity. And again, the fact that like I was between the benches opening night for that game in Tampa, like still is surreal to me. And I've gotten past the imposter syndrome aspect of it because I realized that I'm adding value and I deserve to be here. And I worked really hard for

it. At the same time, little Emily Kaplan did not dream these things. First of all, let me just say the idea that you would have imposter syndrome i understand why it happens but you shouldn't think that like i mean you do an unbelievable job elliot still gets that when we do the podcast together you can't believe he's on with me you know i appreciate you saying that i just think it's a real thing that a lot of us deal with but never really name um and once i was able to name it and you know i am somebody who's been a big proponent of mental health. I go to therapy. I've gone to therapy, honestly, since I was 10 years old. But once I was able to speak on it, I felt like it was powerful to speak on because I think it could help a lot of people realizing that they were in that position and

they should get past it too. You know, Emily, if I could follow up on that a little bit, this particular podcast of ours, the one that we do over the Christmas holiday season, there are people who request it. And one of the reasons I asked someone once, like, why this particular idea that we had? And what they told me was that, you know, the first time we did it was during COVID. And a lot of people couldn't see their families. And that made life more challenging on everybody. And you just talked about how this is something that you've dealt with for quite some time. What advice would you give to people who maybe have the mental health challenge and how would you tell them,

like, this is what helped me. And so if the holidays are a tough time for you, here's what you can do. Don't let other people's perception of you become your perception of you. It's so easy to say, but so much harder to follow. I think we're all feedback-oriented people. We're always looking for input from the outside world. And that's fine, but you can only seek input from those whose voices really matter and keep that circle small. And the voice that matters the most is the one inside your head. And if you're confident in what you're doing and you have conviction, then you're going to live your happiest life. That's great advice. Great advice.

Let me pick up on that a little bit. How many people have you noticed since you've been so visible on games now more so than ever have come up to you specifically younger girls that have said, I want to be like you. And how do you handle that when it happens? That's honestly the coolest thing about what's happened to me in the last year and a half. Little girls who come up to me at games sometimes, you know, this is why I search on Twitter sometimes because I find these girls that are tweeting on me at me or sending me direct messages and I want to empower them and show them like, oh, I'm a real person and I see you and I want you to achieve your dreams too, authentically and however that may look. And it's really, really cool to me because I don't think, again, there's been many women who have taken my path

to get to the role that I am. Women who don't look like me, sound like me, have the same background as me. And I want to show like, hey, you don't have to follow my path either. Just stay authentic to yourself. And as long as you're authentic to yourself, you're going to add value and you'll find a role in this crazy sports industry as well. So that's always the advice that I give. And it's really empowering to see these young girls. A lot of parents of young girls come up to me and say their girls like watching me on TV or they like the fact that their girls can watch me on TV and their boys can watch me on TV too. And I think that's another really important aspect of it that we're just normalizing this for everyone. what was the first time an nhl player

came up to you and said i saw what you said about me on tv and they weren't that happy about it honestly elliot never and that's the you know like we trade lives well here's the thing so like when we got the rights at espn our big belief was we're going to grow the sport through storytelling. That was so important to us. We're a Disney company. That's the fabric of all that we do. And for me, what I'm really looking to do is create storylines and characters in this league in the same way that we see in the NFL and NBA, because that's entertainment. And that's what the fans really care about, who these guys are. That's what the fans really care about, who these guys are. And I think that I've made that the through line of all of my reporting, whether it's sharing the trips I hear between the benches, whether it's player profiles, whether it's the more news angles that I do. That's always the basis of what I do.

So the bottom line is I feel like that's all getting out there, and I think guys do understand. You know, the one dicey situation I probably got in last year, it looked awkward or uncomfortable to a lot of people, but it was the playoffs. It was covering the Carolina Hurricanes. I'm doing my bench interview with Rod Brindamore, and like two minutes before I'm about to get up there, he pulls Auntie Ranta.

My job is as a reporter, and if I'm not doing my job, you know, my producers get mad, the fans get mad, and so I have to ask Rod, hey, take us through that decision to pull Auntie Ranta. Well, the camera did me a little bit dirty there because as I'm asking it, you see me and Rod in the screen and sulking auntie just sitting right in front of us, not looking too pleased.

And it was an awkward moment. And a lot of people were like, oh, my God, I can't believe you would embarrass him like that. La de la de la. Like, that was so inappropriate. But one, I was doing my job. And two, I said, you know, the next day if I showed up at the the rank and either Rod or Auntie had an issue with it, they would have come up to me. I'd been in Raleigh for like a month at that point.

They knew me and neither ever addressed it with me once. Um, and I think because they understood that I was doing my job as a professional, just as I respect them as professionals as well. You know, I asked that that's a great story, by the way. And yeah, you did nothing wrong in that situation. And if Auntie Ranta is in the shot, well, Auntie Ranta is in the shot. I don't know why we think that we're assumed that everybody in this industry has really thin skin and we have to act so delicately around them.

Trust me. By the time you get to, this is what I always say. By the time any player gets to the NHL, they've heard everything, both positive, negative, nasty,

all of it about their game. Nothing I'm going to say, or you're going say or elliot's gonna say is gonna come as a really jarring remark to these guys because they've all heard it before something i asked elliot a couple of weeks ago on the podcast emily i'll ask you the same thing if you could have been at any sporting event at any time any any place, any sports, what would you choose? Doesn't have to be hockey. Could be anything. Is there one that stands out in your mind? Wow. I really wish I was there. Well, I'm guessing I'm one of your few American guests on this, uh, big round table podcast and

maybe not, but, uh, we in America are obsessed with a certain olympic hockey game uh that we did turn into a disney movie uh 1980 miracle and ice and lake placid take me there and inject that game into my veins have you uh had a chance to meet or talk to anyone from that team michael rizzioni um i've gotten to meet he actually came to penn state when i was a student to speak and i was so geeked out to meet him i thought he was just like the biggest celebrity that could have come to campus um and he was just as nice and lovely as I imagined that's fantastic um yeah I mean if you're gonna pick one especially hockey that's a huge one yeah and it's either him or Jim Craig on the team for most people there's no question about that now Emily I've seen you do your around the horn segments. I've seen you start to branch out.

Do you think you'll stay in hockey or do you think there's going to be other things that, like I loved my time when I did a lot of other stuff. I love hockey, but I love sports. And I wonder, do you think that hockey will be your stay or do you see yourself branching out and doing more? Well, as a loyal listener of 32 Thoughts, I had to say, didn't we hit the bingo card where you referenced your career covering basketball?

Isn't this a thing? I didn't even say basketball. I said other stuff, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I read between those lines, Elliot. I love it. I initially covered football. That was my first job going to Penn State.

It was a football school and at Sports Illustrated, I covered the NFL for three years and I loved it. I initially covered football. That was my first job. You know, going to Penn State, it was a football school and at Sports Illustrated, I covered the NFL for three years. And I loved it. And I think I miss a lot of aspects of it. Honestly, just the attention and the gravity that I get to the country that I live in and for the company that I work for. It's still king. And hockey in so many ways, as much as we adore this sport and as much as we are seeing growth, it's a niche sport, and it is the fourth most popular North American professional sport. And, you know, there's a decent margin between it and the NBA and NFL. All of that said, hockey feels like my community. They feel like my people. Ever since I covered hockey, I never really missed covering football

or basketball in a way because I felt like all of the people I met just felt like me and I felt like the sport I wanted to be in. I'm just so humbled by the community that exists in hockey and how welcoming not only the other journalists are, but the GMs, the coaches, the players, the agents, people who reach out and say like, hey, I see what you're doing and I want to see you succeed. And I almost feel like not in debt to those people, but like, hey, I see what you're doing and I want to see you succeed. And I almost feel like not in debt to those people, but like, I want to see this through. And one day I'm open-minded to the fact that my career is going to evolve. I've recently gotten really into the other type of football, soccer. I became a Chelsea supporter. I'm super into the World Cup. Like maybe there's a day that I go live abroad and cover English Premier League. And that would be a super cool challenge for me to

flex. But again, I've exceeded all goals that I ever imagined for myself. And I don't look that far ahead. I'm just trying to enjoy this moment. And right now, I love hockey and I love working in hockey. And I think it's sick that I get to go to ice rinks every day for work. So Emily, you mentioned Penn State. We're taping this interview on Wednesday, the 21st. And this morning came the very shocking news

about the passing of Franco Harris, the great Pittsburgh Steeler and Penn State running back. And, you know, I got a chance to interview Franco Harris and Jerome Bettis at the outdoor game in Pittsburgh, and I couldn't believe how massive these two guys were, particularly Franco Harris. I mean, Bettis kind of knew, but seeing Franco Harris up close, it was something else. He was a massive human.

And I know he's a little bit before your time, but I would guess as a Penn State student that the legend of Franco Harris is a very big one for you. Oh, absolutely. I mean, he would come to campus all the time. And to most students, he was a definite bigger celebrity than Mike Arizioni. But every time I land in the Pittsburgh airport and you see the statue of him, I take so much pride in it. I'm like, that's a punstater.

That's an iconic statue. He was the man. And you mentioned Jerome Bettis. And he's just a side note of my career covering football. You know how you only save a certain amount of voicemails on your phone? If someone calls you and you just want to save it? I actually have two saves that I listened to recently. One was Mike Leach, who also recently passed away, and it's just a hilarious, rambling, bumbling voicemail from him.

And the other is, hi, Emily, this is Jerome Bettis, and I just thought that was the coolest fucking thing. So those are the two voicem notes I have saved on my phone, along with one for my grandma, because I like hearing her voice. That's amazing. And you're amazing. Thanks for sharing all of this. Emily, you're great. Hockey's lucky to have you.

Thanks so much for stopping by the little holiday party that we do every year. And continued success. Like, man, your star is rising. Thanks so much for parking a little bit of time with us today. Thank you guys for always being so supportive of me. When I talk about the hockey community, I think of you too. So I really appreciate the support, and I wish you guys both the happy and healthy holiday season.

You too, Emily. You too. Thanks, Emily. Cheers, guys. Talk to you soon. Listen to the 32 Thoughts Podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. Fa-la-la-la-la, la-la-la-la. Elliot, our next guest, has one of the best and most distinctive calls in all of hockey play-by-play. He is the great Jack Michaels, the play-by-play voice of the Edmonton Oilers.

He joins us now. Jack, how are you today? And what can we pour in your glass, sir? Well, first of all, quite a build-up. So I think you've already poured something in my glass. But, you know, for Christmas, and I know Elliot will probably grimace, but

I'm actually, believe it or not, a heavily spiked eggnog guy. Yeah, I know. No one likes it, but I actually do for some reason. But I don't know whether it was watching Rocky as a kid when he emptied all the eight or 10 eggs.

Maybe that created some sort of visceral impression with me. I'm a Rocky junkie. I'm a Godfather junkie. So who knows? But yes, I am one of the few. Bad taste in drinks, great taste in movies. I'll say that for you. All right.

Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah. I've never met a Rocky rerun I haven't liked. I've probably watched the first four movies probably 60 times each especially rocky three well that's the best one yes except in that movie they have the worst two minute scene of any of the rocky movies and that's the singing to adrian in bed i cannot abide by that fact, I don't think I've seen that scene since I was about 11.

Okay, so let's see how you stick handle it. Doo-doo-doo-doo. Oh, my gosh. It aids me just to even think about it. Well, so in romance, thy name is Jack Michaels. Oh, yeah. I can't deal with it. Let's see how you stick handle this one then.

What is the best line in Rocky, and why is it catch the chicken, Rocky? Catch the chicken. Well, all the scenes, the training scenes are phenomenal. And I do like it when he grabs the chicken because Mick is urging him on, speed. is urging him on, speed! I mean, yeah, the training seems, I can appreciate how many guys must have gotten beaten up

after the Rocky movies, who then were feeling, you know, and then just got stomped at some bar because they thought somehow it would translate. It doesn't. So, Jack, where do we get you on this day? You're in dallas right with the oilers yeah correct and this is the last road game before the christmas break so you have one of the great jobs

in all of pro sports and that is that every night you know that it's connor McDavid and Leon Dreisaitl. What's that like to know every night? Well, I mean, I would suggest to you that you know you're getting basically the two best players in hockey, the two most irresistible forces in hockey. Maybe that's a better way to put it. I think Conor McDavid's the best player in hockey, and I think at times he's the best player in hockey, and I think at times he's the second best guy on his own team. That's how good Leon Dreisaitl is. It's like so many of

the great players, you know what's coming, and you're powerless to stop it. And they're two completely different players. Dreisaitl is much like Ovechkin in the sense that you know where his favorite spots are on the ice are, and you can't help it. You end up getting beat no matter what because he's that good. And McDavid, his breathtaking moves with the puck and his play with the puck and his speed with the puck, everything's with the puck. He's not just quick or lightning fast.

Everything is with the puck, and in some cases, I would suggest to you, he's faster with the puck than he is without. And really, when you have that privilege, you've got to remind yourself of what they're doing. For instance, you know, everyone says, oh, McDavid leads the league by a ton with 64 points. Well, he's one of seven guys in the history of the league that's off to this kind of start. You know, what he does, we say, oh, he's got a big lead in the scoring race, but you've got to then add on, in my opinion, that fact. And those are the kind of things that I think escape, especially me on a day in day out basis, because you almost become hardened to it. Here's the thing about Leon that most impresses me because you talk about

spots on the ice that players own. We think about Wayne Gretzky. We think behind the net, he owned that. We think about Alex Ovechkin, the top of the face off circle, the one timer, he owns that.

We think about, you know, towing the puck along the blue line. Nick Lidstrom owned that. Leon Dreisaitl is the best player I ever saw set up on the goal line, off to the side, the hardest position to be successful, to create something, to score. Jack, that is one of the, I don't think we give it enough audience.

That is one of the most impressive skills that I've ever seen in my life on the ice. I don't care any league and any player. That is incredibly hard to do. Yeah, the key you mentioned was Ovechkin top of the circle. Dreisaitl isn't even, you know, below the circle. He's somewhere between. Yeah, he's basically on the goal line.

And he's got that club. And most people look at that stick and wonder how he can do anything with that stick and yet in dry sidles hand it may as well be a little toothpick that he can manipulate because he can put it where he wants it when he wants it and he's destined to become the greatest power play goal scorer of all time at edmonton oilers history and when you look at who they had over the years on the power play, that's pretty impressive. And like I said, the thing with Dreisaitl is he's got a little bit of Mario in him in the sense that he is impossible to get the puck from. People forget how big that guy is. And he's only about 6'2",

2'12". But I would suggest the way he squares and hunches up those shoulders when you're not getting the puck from him and when he's on his game and moving his feet, he is like Mario in the sense that that puck is glued to him and you're not going to get it. You're a pretty excitable guy. Tough to tell from this interview. Is there something in particular that you really love to say. You've got a few catchphrases. I know at certain points in the broadcast, I'm going to hear them. But what's the one that you really love to belt out? Boy, that is a really good question. I don't really think about it as the game moves along.

think about it as the game moves along. To be honest with you, the one that I think, and it's probably less frequent is my guess, but when a game gets going and it turns into a great game, and I'm lucky enough with the players that I cover, and to be honest with you, Edmonton's, they're never content with prosperity. So there are some nights where Edmonton is really good, but they can't help themselves. They wind up in a closer game than they probably should be in. I would say it's what a hockey game this turned out to be. Because usually when I say that, it's kind of just, this is one of those games where we've got two highly skilled teams on the ice and they're making each other look very good. games where we've got two highly skilled teams on the ice and they're making each other look very good. I don't know really kind of where that came from, but usually it means it's a great game and

I'm having a blast. And to be honest with you, and I get it, a lot of people sometimes think I'm just naturally excitable or some people think I oversell. But to be honest with you, what you've asked me during the course of this interview is part of the reason I'm like that. I mean, Edmonton's not the best team in the NHL, but it's the most exciting team in the NHL. And I'll tell you what, when you grind it out, and I'm not alone in this, so I'm not trying to take away anything. But when you call a thousand minor league games and you get to the National Hockey League and you wind up in a situation where you've now got arguably the two best players in the game on a team that you cover, I'm excited to be there.

I think this sport has the world's best athletes. I think this sport is the most exciting sport to call in all of professional sports. I feel like there is no idle time in the NHL. And maybe that's why I seem like always on or whatever. But I think the combination of what my career has been like, and also the action that I get to see, I think is different from even the other 31 teams. I get a lot of 4-3 and 5-4 games. And even the 3-2 games, it seems like there's a ton of chances on both sides. I don't get many snoozers. So, you know, and I realize there are some over the course of an 82-game season.

I don't see that many. So maybe that's why it seems like I've had about 23 lattes before every game. Hey, you know what? Passion is contagious. Excitement is contagious. If you're not excited about the game, you're going to be broadcasting. How is the audience expected to? Exactly.

Exactly. And I, I mean, that's what I say. I'm like, you know, sometimes like you'll get the odd critic and I engage with everyone. I don't, I's what I say. I'm like, you know, sometimes, like, you'll get the odd critic. And I engage with everyone. I don't mind it. We're in a business where no matter the legends in our game, the Bob Coles and Dick Irvins, there are people who didn't like them. What I sometimes say is, look, I'm sorry. I'm not doing bowling.

You know, I don't want to besmirch any sport, but I just – my point is how would I not be excited? Like, what are you expecting? This is not an elevator ride. This is the National Hockey League. And I am in some small way a part of it. And that is thrilling in and of itself. And then you multiply that by, again, the team that I have the privilege to cover and some of the matchups it elicits. I mean, you know, just look in the last, you know, 12 months. I've done, what have I done? I've done 9-6, you know, I've done 8-6 in a playoff game.

I mean, I've had some, you know, I've had a goalie brawl in the Battle of Alberta. I've had a Battle of Alberta decided by the game's greatest player in overtime. I mean, that's just like right off the top of my head. So yeah, I mean, why would I want anyone to be sleepy watching one of the games that I'm covering? To me, it makes no sense. One of the nice things about a show like this right now at this time of year is we get a good chance to look back. And we talked about Conor McDavid and Leon Dreisaitl. I want to ask you about Colin Chalk and Terry Ryan and Dean Ewan and Kirk Tomlinson. What can you tell us about the Colorado Gold Kings?

I believe you were there for three or four years calling games. It's funny. And I think it's a little bit kind of United States versus Canada. I don't think a lot of Canadians realize the connections you make in minor pro hockey because they're growing up with, with major junior. And for me, that's a little different. Like when I first moved to Canada, you really come to grips with the idea that, you know, kids at 15 and 16 are moving away from their parents. That's a completely foreign concept when you grow up in America. But I will say in minor pro hockey, it's amazing. And you just mentioned some of the relationships I've had over the years. And some of those have then come to fruition in the National Hockey League. I mean, I remember, for instance, you know, talking to Bill Armstrong when he was coach of the Trenton Titans. Mike Haviland, he was also coach of the Trenton Titans. Some of the relationships, Bob Woods was a coach of the Mississippi Seawolves, now a longtime assistant in the NHL. Of course, I had Davis Payne up in Alaska.

You know, St. Louis Blues coach, longtime NHL assistant under Daryl Sutter. And then some of those that you don't see again in the NHL, except you somehow, Terry Ryan. I mean, what a character. Him and his dad were like a traveling roadshow. They came, I mean, my wife still remembers entertaining them. We used to have an annual New Year's Eve bash for the Colorado Gold Kings.

We had three New Year's Eve parties in a row at our house, and it was fantastic. And Zach Boyer scored the game-winning goal at the Memorial Cup one year for Kamloops, was on that team. And you mentioned Colin Chalk, who I now run across. His assistant, Keith McCambridge,

Bakersfield, the American Hockey League. His assistant, Keith McCambridge, was my coach up in Alaska when they went all the way to the Kelly Cup final and was beaten by South Carolina goaltender James Reimer and head coach Jared Bednar and one of their playing captains, Spencer Carberry. I mean, it's just those things and they just pile up. Yeah, they pile up over the years. That's what I mean. When I did a thousand games in the minors, I don't mean to say, oh, it was necessarily a grind because the relationships, the connections are just spectacular over the years. And especially in a special place like Alaska, when Justin Johnson chopped down, you know, John Scott.

I had a chance, you know, I mean, that was like, I knew that guy. You know, we were good friends and I texted him. I said, hey, way to go. Great fight. You know, Scott Gomez went up there during the lockout year and remains one of my best friends to this day. And I'm not a guy who pals around with NHL guys, but the connections and the relationships you form at the minor pro level are really

interesting. And Dean, you and you mentioned, I mean, just that my first ever game was one of the bloodiest fights I ever called. And one of the most challenging names I ever called his fight was with a guy named Sergei Vyshigorachev if you could say that name you could say anything I still remember it both guys's nose were on the side of the face and they were chatting away after the game speaking of which and I mentioned Kirk Tomlinson for one very specific reason when he played junior he one of my favorites and he played uh in the OHL with Hamilton, and Bill LaForge was the coach, and Tomlinson was a real tough player,

as you well know. What was he like as a coach, and did he ever share any Bill LaForge stories? Well, I'll tell you what. Kirk Tomlinson, I've got a story for you if we've got time for it. Kirk Tomlinson, everyone called him Gunner. When he played in the ECHL, I think he had a year where he was 30 goals, 300 minutes. And he played at like 202 pounds, and he's naturally a 5'10", 170 pounder.

So you can imagine what was going on in the early 90s. But the bottom line is, my favorite Kirk Tomlinson story is we were up in Anchorage, and I wasn't in Anchorage yet. This is before my time with the Aces. And he's sitting there with me. We would stay at this hotel called the Northern Lights Hotel, which would subsequently be condemned less than a year later. But at this time, it was open, and it's where all the Aces players lived.

And we were in the midst of a playoff series. It was before Game 4, best of five, two games to one, Colorado. And Kirk Tomlinson and I are sitting there having a cocktail and having a meal in this hotel, which was not only home to the Aces, but also the visiting team hotel. We must have paid like $49 a night. Who knows what it was? It was too much, whatever it was.

Trust me. I mean, you crawled under those blankets and you just, you know what? You didn't even look. You didn't want to know. Bottom line is, Kirk and I are sitting there and he goes, watch what happens here. I can totally stir something up. There was some tension between the late, great Walt Padupny, who was the head coach of the Alaska Aces, at that time Anchorage Aces, and probably still the best player on that team. Now, he was 280 pounds. He didn't play, but he would always wheel around and practice, and you could see the remnants of the NHL all-star that he was just a decade before that. I mean, he's barely 40, if he's 40 at all, at the time he was coach of the Aces. But he had a very uneasy relationship with the owner of the Aces at that time,

a gentleman by the name of Mike Cusack. And he goes up to Walt Podobny and he says, you know, I don't know how you deal with this ownership. You were a great player, a good coach, and you've got this team living in a hotel and they're so talented, but you've got no support. You've got no foundation. Look at him over there. He's having beers the night before a game.

It's unprofessional, blah, blah, blah. And then he goes over to Mike Cusack, and he says, look at your coach. What is he doing in a bar when he's got a playoff game to play? And Cusack is like, well, what are you doing in a bar? He goes, I have nowhere else to go. I'm stuck at this hotel that you guys shack us up at. The next thing we know, Cusack and Padubny are in a wrestling match. They tumble down the stairway, the back stairway, and Padubny suffers a compound fracture of his leg. It's sticking out through the skin.

I almost like, I got nauseated at the spot. So the next night, I go to do my pregame interview, and Padumni's ready to go. I mean, he's sitting there about to pass out on painkillers, and he says, hey, Jack, just by the way, you know, let's not get into this in terms of why I broke my leg. I know you were there last night, whatever. So I'm conducting the interview, and he's barely functional because of the pain he's in.

So we finish. He does the game that night, and sure enough, there's a controversial call. People are chucking things on the ice, including my Anchorage counterpart in the booth hurls a big gulp on the ice from the top of the first level, which I still think is one of the greatest throws I've ever seen. And Padumdi is shaking his crotch at the referee and ends up not only throwing sticks on the ice, basically hobbling around, but then having to retrieve his crotches.

And in Anchorage, when you get kicked out of the game, you've got to go across the ice. So he's limping on his crutches off the ice, fresh off a compound fracture. Gold Kings close out the series three games to one. Sorry that was so long, but that encapsulates my experience in the minor leagues. Just great people. And I preface this, I mean, I was on great terms with Walt Podomny and I still miss him. He was one of the great characters of our game and always a guy that found a way to spend five minutes with you. I believe originally

from Thunder Bay. My favorite part of that story might be the close. Gold Kings win three games to one and on to the next round. Jack, this has been a lot of fun. Thanks so much for stopping by. Happy holidays to you and your family. Have a great little break after the game against the Stars,

and we'll catch up soon. This has been fantastic. Well, I really appreciate your time, guys, and I thank the world of your show. Thanks so much, and the best over the holidays to you and your families. You too, Jack. Thanks very much, bud. You know, Elliot, a lot of great hockey families around us at Sportsnet.

Here's one. Justin Bourne of the legendary Bourne family. We talk so much about the New York Islanders, so we always talk about Bob Bourne. Now we're talking a lot about a rising star in broadcasting, Justin Bourne, former pro hockey player, we should add as well. We'll throw that in the mix. Justin, welcome to the annual holiday party.

How have you been, pal? I've been great. I've been great. I appreciate you guys having me on. You guys do wonderful work. That's not true, but thank you. Pucker up, Buttercup. Way to go.

That's always the best thing to do right away. Justin, we always ask people at the top if there's something they would like to be served. You've been very open and public about what you've gone through. Is there something non-alcoholic that we can offer you? Yes, I appreciate that. It's actually, you know, since I stopped drinking, so I, you know, that'd be February of 2019, the options for people like myself have honestly exploded. Like, you know, a lot of people, when they first come out of rehab or they decide to stop drinking, you know, the program sort of doesn't support, uh, non-alcoholic beers. Some

people find that a trigger, but you know, I waited a year before, uh, trying one to see how it felt for me. If I felt comfortable having one, uh, I'm lucky that I am someone who it doesn't seem to bother me. So I do like to hold the beer just to feel like I'm one of the boys again. Partake is my drink of choice. That would be my go-to. You're coming out with a book, which is being launched soon. And you recently had a Twitter thread where you laid it all out there. And I think it's important to recognize that because I guarantee to you, Justin, there's someone out there who saw you doing that and said, that will give me the courage to do it. And I was wondering how nervous you were and what you felt like as the positive reaction poured in.

Well, yeah, I appreciate having a platform to discuss it because I was, you know, uncertainty for me is the worst thing in life. And I think a lot of people feel that way. And when I put that Twitter thread out there, my biggest fear was I just didn't know what it meant for me. You know, like I don't know how that changes how people perceive me. I don't know how it's going to change opportunities that come my way or the people who lean on me or whatever. So I guess just that had me feeling a little uneasy and seeing the overwhelming, you know, flood of messages from people, the positivity, the people who could relate in particular, you know, it makes me confident that I've done the right thing. And Elliot, you make a great point about, you know, people making a change because this time of year is very challenging.

And this time of year coming off a pandemic, I know that there are people who are in a bad way and the holidays are a trigger for a lot of people just going through, you know, family situations and every event is, you know, tailored around where are we going? What are we drinking? And so it can be hard. And so I just wanted people to be able to connect to something. And, you know, when my life really fell apart for me was at Christmas.

I went to the Gillies four years ago. I had tried to get sober before that. I went to CAMH here in Toronto. You know, I was overseeing. You go there for a day and they'll oversee you stopping drinking to make sure you don't have a stroke or a seizure or whatever. And I committed to not drinking for three weeks to my wife just to show her that I could. And then I would be able to have a couple of drinks over the holidays. I drank every day of that three weeks in secret.

Got to the holidays and was finally allowed to have another drink or two in public again. And I just couldn't keep it together, guys. And that was a bad Christmas for myself, for my family. And it was the month after that into January where it became clear I just couldn't live like that anymore. And so the timing of this is not unintentional. I'm here for people over the holidays. If you do want to reach out, it can be particularly hard. And I just, I know what you're going through, uh, out there. So yeah, happy to be here. You're a great person. Well, thanks guys. Bluntly. You're, you're a great person, Justin Bourne guys. And I'm, I'm pretty sure that one of the things that you found, um, is that there's, there's a great hockey community of people that are in recovery,

whether it is alcohol, substance, whatever. Is that something that you've been able to lean on? I'm sure people in the sport have reached out either previous or since you put out your Twitter thread. Yeah, I appreciate that question, Jeff, because it gives me an opportunity to talk about someone who means a lot to me. So it's like February, early February in 2019, those days I would drop my kid off at daycare and then just, you know, I would drink vodka before I would do that. So I didn't shake on the way to, you know, to walk him to daycare. And then I'd come back on my couch and I would have a couple

of pulls and just try to kind of, you know, watch SportsCenter and settle in for the morning. And it just, I was so embarrassed of who I had become. And I was in shambles. And I just knew it had to change. And I called Rich Kloon. And I called Dickie. And I just said, you know, I was crying. And I just said, you know, I need help.

You know, I'm in a bad way. And I don't know what to do now. And, you know, to say he was supportive is just a wild understatement he dropped what he was doing to get somewhere where he could talk to me you know he told me where he went uh renaissance my fan you know that's where i ended up going when i was there for about a week once i was in treatment for about a week uh the marlies were in town for about a week. Once I was in treatment for about a week, the Marley's were in town for like a day layover and Dickie showed up in his suit before he had to go to the bus. The only person who saw me in treatment outside of my family was Rich Clune and just wanted to know

how I was doing. You know, I went to meetings with him when I got sober and there is a large community out there of people in recovery that i you know it's that not everyone would know who's involved in that and that's by design obviously but those people i found who they were heard their stories and yeah there's there's a huge support and i will say the nhlpa deserves a lot of credit for handling a lot of people, handling people's issues in secret with dignity and often without looking for, you know, public acknowledgement of the help that they give to a lot of people. In my eyes, I don't know how you feel, but in my eyes, this doesn't define you. It's part of your journey. And I want to talk about some other things. First of all, Justin, what is your favorite

memory of playing hockey throughout your career? That's great. You know, college for me was such a sweet spot. So many people I think look back at those college years because in pro hockey, you're all competing against one another, right? Like if the right winger on my team does better than me in the ECHL, he's the next guy to get called up, not me. You're not rooting for each other as much. It's just, there's not this sense of camaraderie that you have in college when you're there for four years. And there's always internal jockeying for ice time and all that. But you're a team that's going to be together for a good time. So playing for Alaska, you know, you'd go play, uh, Fairbanks for the governor's cup. You know, my freshman year, uh, I showed up in Alaska. So I committed to Alaska. They're like one in one in the season, really early in my, my junior

hockey year, they go, Oh, four for the rest of the season, like Oh, Oh, and 30 after that, they're awful, just awful. And so the next year I'm there and you know, all of a sudden it's like, there's not really pride in the logo and we, you know, all of a sudden it's like, there's not really pride in the logo and, you know, what have I done? But we were really good my freshman year. We surprised a lot of people. You know, we beat Fairbanks, you know, went to a shootout. We got to go to the Frozen Five, which was the WCHA's playoffs by beating Wisconsin,

who had, you know, Adam Burrish and Brian Elliott and Robbie Earl, who didn't make it. But Joe Pavelski was on their't make it but Joe Pavelski was on their team yeah Joe Pavelski was a superstar too obviously Ryan Suter like they were loaded and we beat them in playoffs as an underdog so you know playing in front of 15,000 people chanting what's a seawolf you know being the seawolves very fair question as we beat them in Wisconsin was uh you know for me just a wonderful hockey memory did you dance pavelski like did you skate circles right around them i gotta tell you no first off absolutely not the the second year we almost did it again to wisconsin and we had him

down as the best of three we had him down four two in the third period of the third game oh and at pavelski show i can't even tell you how ridiculous he was. Beating guys wide, he ends up scoring one from behind the goal line, intentionally banked off our goalie's head. Like just the smartest, niftiest player. We didn't even get up to overtime. 5-4, see you later. Way to go, Joe.

That's tough. Yeah, it was heavy. Heavy times, but yeah, he was a better player than the rest of us. Was he the best player you ever shared the ice with, or was there, there's someone else that I'm, that I'm missing here? Well, that division was loaded actually. So Jonathan Tabes was there, Phil Kessel, Thomas Vanik, TJ Oshie, like it was a dumb division. And guys, I was, I was the best, you know, one of the few best players on my college team. So I was trying to go out there at 23 playing against 18 year old Jonathan Taves and just getting my wheels

blown off. Like it's, I, you know, the, I told the story the other day, but at one point we decided to have me try to play D on the power play and Mason Raymond blocked one of my shots. So I had to chase Mason Raymond from flat foot. So, you know, I had a pretty good sense of where I was in the hockey world. After a few years in university, I was a pretty good player, but couldn't hang with the likes of those guys. What kind of boss was Kyle Dubas? A very competitive guy. You know, he wanted to come in and be a lighter environment.

He wanted us to be different right that's i think part of the reason there was hope for him that he wanted the colorado job at one point because he could go there and try new things and no one would know or you know people wouldn't it wouldn't be in the limelight as much so you know he wanted everyone to say what they think he wanted to hear from everyone he was trying to promote this like inclusive environment, but at the end of the day, he was a hockey guy. And when things got intense, he didn't want to see that stuff as much as that. He didn't want to see five forwards on the power play. If we're getting scored on, he didn't want to see, you know, he, it came down to winning and he knew in the end of the day, that's what defines anyone. So I would say more

competitive than people realize. If you look up and you see some of those videos of him in the end of the day, that's what defines anyone. So I would say more competitive than people realize. If you look up and you see some of those videos of him in the press box where he's freaking out, like you get a little bit of clue into it. But, you know, he was younger and less mature then. And I've also told the story of him, you know, when we lost my first year there, tearing pictures off the walls of guys and breaking the frames and glass and and you know like mad mad competitive guy i think he's grown up a little bit since there are a lot since then but certainly know the really that he's not just some computer geek pushing numbers around what about sheldon keith uh sheldon is tough to

get close to i think a lot of people have tough time putting a finger on what kind of guy Sheldon is, but he forms an inner circle of people that he leans on, trusts and believes in, which to this day, it shocks me that AJ McLean is not with them. Cause when I was there, that was like his guy, you know, that he went to for, for everything. But I would say the Leafs are a big organization. I think he trusts a small amount of people within that Dub Dubas obviously and him are inseparable in that regard. You know, I mentioned this in my book when I write about Sheldon, but I respect how he pushed me to another level of professionalism. And like, I would write up our system sheet and I'd be like, go to post it for the team here. Here's how we're going to play

against them. Show it to Sheldon. What do you think? And he'd be like, ah, there's a comma out of place there. And I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he would seriously, he would circle it. And so he started circling like grammatical errors. And like, you know, his thing that he would say to us is that if we're going to ask them to be perfect, then we have to present ourselves perfectly. You know, we can't go to them with sloppy work and incomplete information and expect them to do everything we're asking of them if we don't show up prepared for them. So he was really, he really prioritized presenting ourselves to the team as having all the answers put together, having worked hard because it made it easier to ask that of them.

Good thing he doesn't edit my blog. Listen, I go through that too with Rory. Thank God for him. Do you ever miss it, Justin? This part of you, you've got a real career coming here, but do you ever miss being part of that world? Do you ever miss being part of that world? I will say that I don't sit here today and say to myself, I'm done trying to win a Stanley Cup. Nice.

You know, like I'm, you know, I'm 40 years old as of two days ago. You know, I don't know that I am ready to say I'll never win a Stanley Cup. So yeah, I keep my ears and options open. You know, I have talked with teams about certain things, but I will say my priority now is, guys, I never lived in a house for more than three years in my entire life. You know, after I moved out at 17 to go play junior hockey.

To this day, I've never lived in one place for three years. Toronto's the longest I've lived in a city, but I just don't want that for my kids where they got to chase me for an opportunity that comes up in Columbus and then one that comes up in wherever and it doesn't work out in a couple of years and they don't have roots in a family and whatever.

So for me, a big part of it will be, can I do something that allows me to keep my family's stability? And you know, that's a hell of a contrast to ask for in the NHL. You know, the only problem with you going now back into coaching is Kipper's going to be calling you six times a day looking for scoops, right?

I'll feed him something so obviously untrue that you guys know it's me and see if he says it. Justin, it's Kipper. What's going on out there? Give me something. Give me something. Give me something. I would love it. That'd be great.

Does Marner have your MVP vote this year? What's the Kipper experience been like for you? I think we all do have a lot of time for him. Yeah. No, it's been, honestly, I feel blessed to be working with him. When we came together together we didn't know each other they they asked me you know would you be interested if we were able to get kiprios and i was like oh my god like absolutely that would be unbelievable and i had heard nothing but people

loved working with him i will say that i am so glad that i understand him now and i i know that what he brings to the air is he recognizes that we're in the entertainment business and he works hard. Yes, he does. You know what I mean? Like he works hard off air. So he gets information and he brings it in a compelling way and he pulls me places.

I wouldn't bring myself because my preference is to kind of be, I want everyone to like me guys. You know, I want to stay in like this little pocket where I don't have to bring myself out there, but sometimes Kipper brings me places where I have to be more out there. And I think that's good for me in my career and expanding myself and working with him has been,

been awesome. Yeah. Nothing but great things to say. Well, you're awesome. And listen, this has been, no,

you're awesome. No, you're the best. Borny. That's the end of every Christmas party. Isn't it? No, you're awesome. And listen, this has been... No, you're awesome. No, you're the best, Borny. That's the end of every Christmas party, isn't it? No, you're the best. Noogie's in the parking lot. I love you, little buddy. I've lived some of those, yes. Listen, have a great holiday with you.

You have a beautiful family. Everybody, wishing everybody all the best. And we'll touch base in the new year, pal. Have a great one. Yeah, right back at you guys. Thanks so much for having me. Elliot, I can remember a conversation that I had with my wife a few years ago where it was late at night. I was watching a Calgary-Vancouver game.

She's an artist and she was doing wood burning. And she turned to me and she said, Jeff, I finally figured out what you do for a living. And I said, this will be good. She said, you don't actually do anything. All you do is talk about things that other people did. And I had no answer. So it is with great pleasure and delight that we welcome in someone who has actually done something and continues to do things. She is Deidre Dion.

For the purposes of Rogers, she's the head of business affairs. For the purposes of Rogers, she's the head of business affairs. For the purposes of sports, she's a bronze medalist in freestyle skiing in 2002. Deidre Dionne, how are you today? And I'd like to introduce you as someone who has done something. How is that? I like that. I like that. That's how I'll introduce myself going forward. I'm Deidre Dionne. Iidre Dion. I've done something. I've done something. Well, we always start off, Deidre, by asking people if there's a certain libation that they prefer. It can be alcoholic, it can be non-alcoholic.

When you attend your holiday parties, your Christmas parties, what do you serve yourself? I mean, if I'm at a holiday party, I'll probably do the rum and eggnog, but probably bourbon if it's just sitting by the holiday fire. So one of those two. I like the bourbon. I think eggnog is disgusting, so I'm much happier with the bourbon.

Way to alienate all of our eggnog listeners, Elliot. Well done. You've got to think of all the demos at all times. They'll get over it, yes. Okay, so under the umbrella of sports, Deidre, Christmas time holds a lot of memories for a lot of people. Maybe it's a present. Maybe it's a pair of tickets. Maybe it's a sporting event. Maybe it's playing. Maybe it's a tournament. I'm suspecting maybe it's skiing for you, but I'm not going to bias the jury. Christmas and sports. What does that mean for Deidre Dion? Oh, I mean, Christmas was always actually a break from sports, which was probably nice.

It was the time you got to go home and see your family for most of my childhood. So it was friends and family more than it was sport because sport was every other day of the year. But it was also the day as a kid that I got all the sports equipment that would feed me for the rest of the year. So it was never too far from under the Christmas tree. Was there one thing under that tree in Red Deer that you went, Oh, wow, this I can't believe I got this. I remember getting like a ski suit that was just shiny and purple. And I probably would have been about 11 because I used to ski in a penguin's starter coat, which is so not cool for a skier. And, and this was like my first legitimate ski suit. So my early freestyle days, like everyone has pictures of me in that penguin's coat and it's, it was used to shame me for many years.

Now, Deidre, you, I don't want to get your home robbed or anything like that, but where do you keep your Olympic medal? 2002 bronze medalist in the aerials. At home behind the computer zoom call view. And that way, you know, if I need to establish a little bit of like legitimacy in a conversation, just move one way or the other. What do you think of when you see it? What do I think of when I see it?

It's complicated, I'd say, when I see it, because I'm really proud of that moment. It's huge. It changed the course of my life. But it's also a reflection of a split second of what my career was that defines me as a human. When other people hear that success, they automatically think things that like I'm far more proud of other things that happened in my career. So I understand the value of it. And it's taken me a long time to appreciate that it defines many conversations that I'm a part of, but it doesn't define my identity. I think this is an incredible answer and really fascinating. So if I'm prying too much,

you can tell me to get lost, but I'd like to hear more about that answer, Deidre. Because I think a lot of people from the outside, you're right, would look at that Olympic medal and think, wow, Canadian Olympian Deidre Dion. But how do you think more of yourself or what other things do you look at and say, I think that defines me more? Oh, well, like sport was simple, right? Sport to me was like chasing the end of a rainbow and the Olympics was always the end of the rainbow and the Olympic medal was that goal. And I think very quickly you realize that linear goals don't equal happiness in life. So I got to the end of the rainbow. And what was at the end of the rainbow was another rainbow because a medal is never enough.

And then a gold medal is never enough. And then you need two or three. But to me, like who I am as a person is probably filled with many different aspects of life. And it's about more of that balance towards like, how am I feeding my mind? How am I feeding my emotional self? How am I feeding my physical self? And it's taken me a long time to realize that like, linear paths don't equal happiness or success. So I look at it more as like a circle. And sometimes our buckets are filled on one side, and they take a lot more energy. And then you get a little more balanced by making sure that

none of them are empty. Was there one moment for you, Deidre, where it all sort of clicked and you said, hold on a second. Yes, that was an achievement. But I am much more of a human being than this medal indicates. I don't think it was one moment, but just like a compilation of feelings. Like you can walk into a room and be the most successful person from an accomplishment. But just the same, I could walk into a room of Olympians that had seven Olympic medals and I never felt like I was enough. So it was always that feeling that ebbed and flowed with whatever room you're in. And if I started defining myself that way, then I would never have any self-worth. And so I've truly spent a lot of time valuing myself

more as like the 12-year-old that wanted to accomplish things and trying to harness those traits that got me there and putting my value on my work ethic and my ability to fail and everything that actually helped me achieve that one success. It was the soft skills at 12 and 13 in sport that are going to continue to be the thing that I'm the most proud of. Well, Deidre, I think you're a huge part of the Sportsnet organization. Your official title now is Head of Business Affairs. And one of the things that you oversee, it must be like herding cats,

but you oversee a lot of Sportsnet talent. I can't imagine which group is more difficult to deal with, freestyle skiers or Sportsnet talent. I can't imagine which group is more difficult to deal with freestyle skiers or sports net talent. But what I want you to tell me is who is the most high maintenance, annoying sports net talent. And I apologize in advance if the answer is me. I was going to say you just left the door right open, right? Did he just ask you a question? Is the man in the room right now? I mean, the hardest person to track down for a meeting, I think, is Mr. Elliot Friedman, for sure. Oh, that's a tough one.

You know what? I love working with people. And I like knowing people and understanding people's different role in the universe and not making assumptions on what their life is like. And so I've enjoyed getting to know everybody's unique experience. And media is so fascinating and ever changing. And so even understanding from those before me in the industry, like how it has changed and the impact that they feel daily is, it's fascinating.

Do you find, because you've rubbed shoulders and been around elite level athletes your entire life, we just, you know, spelling out your athletic background, you were one. Is there anything, and this is a really naive question, is there anything that you've noticed that is different about them either good or bad i would say like failure is just a part of an everyday thing and it's not a scary occurrence for most people in high performance sport who fail more than they ever achieve so the comfort in in putting yourself out there daily and understanding that you may fall up short i think coming into the

world outside of high performance sport, that's a fear that isn't exercised enough to become the norm for a lot of people. This probably should be a layup, but here we go. Your favorite, you talked about Red Deer, your favorite Red Deer rebel ever? Favorite Red Deer Rebel ever? Oh, well, yikes. That should be easy, right? Is it Colby Armstrong? I don't know.

I don't know. You tell me. Or is he like your least favorite Red Deer Rebel? Oh, man. Well, we billeted, right? So I feel like I'm throwing some people under the bus here. But we've kept in contact with Colby our entire lives. And so we knew him when he was like the skinniest 15-year-old kid that just chirped every human.

You couldn't even have a conversation without having him monopolizing it with his wit and then seeing him grow up and his family. And they're just the kindest humans ever. So I'll go with Kolb's. Good answer. Well done. This has been a pleasure. Listen, best of the holidays to you and your family.

Health and happiness to everyone in 2023. Thanks for doing this, Deidre. And to you three as well. I hope you get a chance to relax. I don't know. Elliot, so the holiday party continues. There are tongues hanging out everywhere. Everyone is thirsty. So my first question for Osama Farouk, who works with us at Sports

Night, is, Osama, first of all, welcome. Second of all, what are you thirsty for right now? Thank you, Jeff and elliot and on for having me right now i'd say i want a nice hot chocolate a nice frothy hot chocolate with a dash of cinnamon in there are you a whipped cream guy are you a whipped cream person or a marshmallow for that matter only whipped cream on special occasions no wonder you're in such good shape it's embarrassing and this ell, is not a special occasion.

This is just an annoyance. Thanks. Thanks, Osama. Amal, who's the next guest? Listen, thanks so much for stopping by today. We like to do this with people that our listeners may not be familiar with. Just sort of surrender the floor and make you feel uncomfortable by letting you and encouraging you to talk about yourself. What should we know about you, Osama?

What you should know is I'm a suffering Leafs fan who has never seen a playoff series win. How old are you? I'm 26. Oh, man. Wow. Bright future, man. Holy smokes. No. So in seriousness, I work with you guys and on at Sportsnet with the NHL department and in the news department. I've been working with Sportsnet now since 2017 and I mainly work in the hockey department. So helping out with pretty much whatever needs to be helped out with, whether it be on the associate producer side or helping you guys with your fonts and graphics.

And this year started working in remote truck productions. Oh, so what are you doing in the trucks now? Working ISO back there. Okay, so tell everybody what that is. Explain to everybody what that is. So that role in a truck production, there's multiple positions to help to broadcast the game. And the ISO producer's job is to sit with all of our replay operators.

So the people who are working the machines when the play is stopped and you see all those camera angles, the ISO producer during the game helps direct the producer with which angles are the best to go for a given play in real time. And also too, for the ISO cameras, before the game, the director goes over with the camera people and says, these are all the individuals we want you to follow. Are you part of that too, picking who the cameras are going to isolate on? Pretty much the players to follow are almost easily figured out

which players are of interest. So pretty much the directors and the producers here are very good at picking out the correct players to follow. So most of the time, you don't have to go against them or bring new ideas.

Now, do you do teases? I do as well, teases, yes. So the teases for people who aren't familiar with that term is that's the musical at the opening of the show. And that's a big deal at Hockey Night in Canada. A good tease is very important.

Do you remember the first time you were told you were going to do one of those? Because people get really excited and nervous the first time they're going to do it. Yes, I do. It was during my second year. It was for a Wednesday night hockey between the Washington Capitals and Winnipeg Jets. And I remember being so excited to doing a tease that I spent a solid, I'd say, 12 hours each day just sitting at my desk, trying to recreate the world when I didn't have to.

I was trying to recreate the wheel and I didn't have to, I was trying to recreate the wheel, and I didn't have to, but gladly it turned out well. What song did you have? It was an instrumental track. It was pretty much a budget for the game wasn't that big at the time, so it was just an instrumental track with some nice Ovechkin and Lion-Ace soundups. Oh, you know what?

You just did something really good for us now, because people are going to listen to this, and they're going to say, wait, wait, wait, wait. So it was Washington and Winnipeg? Was that what you said it was? Yes. So all the Winnipeg people are going to listen to this they're going to say wait wait wait wait so it was washington and winnipeg was that what you said it was yes so all the winnipeg fans are going to be like oh oh okay so we don't get the leaf budget thanks a lot asama you just ruined our entire christmas oh man hopefully the bosses aren't listening right now to this episode you know you said something a couple of seconds ago that's interesting and there's an interesting story that comes along with it, and that is identifying players.

And for the longest time, I don't know why it took so long for the NHL to get there. You'll remember this, Elliot, when they finally did. I want to say it was 2010 or maybe 2011, somewhere around there, where the NHL finally started to put the numbers of the players on the fronts of the helmets. Yeah. And for people that may not be familiar with the story or have wondered why the numbers are on the front of the helmets, that's so people in the truck can identify the players like, oh, grab me Marion Gabrick. OK, Minnesota looking around, trying to find 10, trying to find 10, trying to find 10. If you don't know the players just by looking at their face

and this is for maybe new hockey markets and new people that are working, you just say pick me out number 10 and they're easily identifiable that way. That is a nod to television. I feel like I'm Grandpa Simpson here telling all these stories

from TV's past, but that is why they have the numbers at the front of the helmets. Usama, what was your schooling? How did you get from, and first of all, you said you're a big Leaf fan. I assume you're from the Toronto area, right? Correct. Did you know that you wanted to go into TV and do kind of production? Not at all. It was pretty much in my final year of high school, when you're got to sit down and start figuring out what you really want to do, that I was thinking that could I turn my passion into a career? And that's why I applied to the now Toronto Metropolitan University in the RTA program, got in. And from there, the ride began

studying how to make television and media production happen. So why did you choose this path? What got you into it? Well, I couldn't play because I wasn't good enough, pretty much the way everybody else gets in there. Join the club. Exactly.

And I felt that working in production would be the next best thing. Did you ever want to be in front of the camera, in front of the microphone, anything like that, or always behind the scenes? I did for a while, but then a role model of mine said being in front of the camera sometimes, it limits you on your creativity and what you can do. So that's why I always felt that you're more in control

behind the camera. Do you think there, is there ever a time where the itch scratches you and you'd say, you know what, maybe someday I'd like to, you know, remove Kevin from the panel. Kevin's too much fun. I want to want to remove Kevin. How about Elliot then? Oh, we're running out of people.

Well, Elliot, I probably would might want to just because I think I could hand I could mean Elliot in a fight could go well. I want to, just because I think I could hand, I could be an Elliot and a fight could go well. But no, so right now I really don't have an itch at all to be on air. So what are your ultimate goals? What would you like to do someday? I mean, that asked a lot these days. So my goal eventually as I entered the truck world, I love the live truck environment of being live and having to make quick split second decisions. And there's no lineup or script. You just go with however the game is flowing. And there you can try to prep. There's so much prep people do and our crews do.

That's a backup plan. That's always just a backup plan. Exactly. It gets thrown out quicker than yesterday's lunch, I'd say. And you just got to be ready on your heels or the correct term on your toes. I still can't remember each time. But you got to be ready at any point to start making a new plan and a new course of action, which I love. What was the first thing you saw in a truck that made you think, I'm in a different world here? Like, this is crazy and I love it. Apart from how cold it is?

Yeah, apart from how cold it is, yes. The first thing I saw was just pretty much all the camera angles. Because when we work back here in studio, we don't see all those camera angles available to us. But in a truck, you see them on a big monitor split screened all up about, like when I did a lease game, it was about 20 camera angles and all of them showing different things. And you're like I, when I did a lease game, it was about 20 camera angles and all of them showing different things. And you're like, I wish I had 20 more pairs of eyes. That's pretty cool. Elliot and I will always get asked, you know, who are, you know, who are the people that influenced us? And it's other broadcasters, right? Like there's a lot of

other people that you meet in your life that influence you. But when it comes to like the actual broadcasting of what we do, it do, we reference other broadcasters. Who are some of the names that you could mention as far as being influential to you? People that might not be household names, but we couldn't get games on the air without them. Right now, I think of pretty much all our head producers. And I don't want to do this because you're going to miss a few names. I don't want to piss anybody off. The fact that they're going to you and saying to you, what would you like to do?

That's in all seriousness, that's a really good sign because that means they see a future in you. And sometimes when I speak to young people, they ask, how should I act when I get into a new environment? Like when I'm going into, say, H Hockey Day in Canada for the first time, how should I act? And my answer, and it's been a long time since I started, is you speak when you're spoken to, you're quiet, but you dress nicely and you try to be confident. And it's a difficult mix to find sometimes, but that's what I always try to people. Look everybody in the eye, only speak when you're spoken to at the beginning ask any question that you really need to ask if you're not sure don't be shy but you started more recently than I have and obviously your star is rising is there anything that you did when you first walked into the company that you think really helped you uh that's a great

question Elliot the first thing I remember when I when started, I was brought on by Kathy Broderick as a runner. And as we know, Kathy is pretty much responsible for 55% of people in this industry. Yes. Getting their start. Absolutely. So I started that as a runner. And when I was a runner, I used an inspiration from Alex Anthopoulos pretty much. So when Alex Anthopoulos got hired, this is a little story.

I don't know if you guys want to hear the story here. Yeah. But Alex Anthopoulos, when he got hired as the GM of the Blue Jays, he gave an interview in a feature. And they asked him, hey, Alex, how did you get to this point? And he explained the story about how when he started, he started as a volunteer fan mail handler for the Toronto Blue Jays in their clubhouse. And it was a small gig, not even paid. And he started there and he talked about how he gave so much importance to that job, even though it was a minor job, considered a minor job. And he would spend so much time there and he spent his extra time just talking to people around the

clubhouse and the organization and getting tips and learning the ways of how to be an MLB executive. So I took inspiration from that. So when I got in as a quote unquote runner and PA with Hockey Night, I told myself, do the best job in this role you can and the rest will follow and try to find and learn as much as you can. You got a front row seat to a national production on the longest running sports show in the history of television. Just sit back and learn and soak in as much as you can and show how you're interested.

You are on the path, man. Like Elliot says, rising star. It's awesome to watch. Thanks so much for stopping by. Continued success. And I very much look forward to the day you replace Elliot on Hockey Night. Thanks so much for doing this. Continued success, and I very much look forward to the day you replace Elliot on Hockey Night. Thanks so much for doing this, pal.

I just have one question. Almost all guests get a GMC, so when should I expect mine? Hey, we're still waiting for ours. Get in line. Get in line. Those mysteriously disappear in the sales department. Yes, yes, indeed. Thanks so much for having me, guys.

Thanks, Osama. Thanks, pal. Have a great holidays. Great job, Elliot. Happy New Year. That was awesome. Elliot, he's the host of the NHL on TNT. He's a longtime friend, Liam McHugh, and joins us here at the holiday party. Liam, A, how are you? And B, what can we put in your glass this festive season?

I am great. It's good to be on with you guys. I am tempted to get like seven Red Bulls so I can start this party the way Biz would. But I will stick with my standard, which is a nice fake beer so I can trick myself into being an adult for about 10 minutes. And then proceed to have 0.0 fun for the rest of the night. So no one's going to be around me at the bar. So it's just like you're hosting the show. Basically. Yeah. I'd like to have fun, but then they're like, you're the adult.

I look at the other three faces and they're like, you're the one who's supposed to be in charge. I'm like, ah, all right. How does it feel to be the grownup in the room on that panel? It is a pretty easy transition from my home life with my 9-year-old, my 8-year-old, and my 4-year-old to going into work. Slightly different language, slightly different content, although really in terms of just childish humor, really not that much different. I would say I segue nicely. My flight to the studio and my one night of eight hours of uninterrupted sleep are really the one thing I look forward to.

It's the in-between, the three kids at home and my three kids at work. That's the one thing about the TNT panel that is consistent between both the incredible inside the NBA and your pregame show too is that the Ernie Johnson, Liam McHugh role, you're required to be the straight man. That is your job. You're there to make sure the show gets on the air, make sure the show gets off the air.

And while there are suggestions as opposed to guardrails, prevented from going way over the top. How challenging is it with that group of people? It is uniquely challenging. Let's start with the easiest part for the most part is Anson Carter, just because I've worked with him for so long. So I think I've known him. I know where he's going.

I trust him. Although there's a new freedom in this job and Anson occasionally, you know, goes off and I got to follow the twists and turns of where his mind takes us. Then there's Tockett, who for the most part I feel like I know where he's going to go, except that he's often just reacting to biz. And you can start to see the veins pop in his neck and he's getting upset about something and I wonder how far should we take this?

Is he going to step up from his chair, walk over, and they're going to start throwing down? With Biz, the idea is I can ask him a very simple, very straightforward, very basic question and I have no idea where he is going to go with it. And the cool part of the job, like you said, is I am sort of driving it and I have three guys trying to grab the steering wheel and I have to decide when we're off the road, is the view from off the road more intriguing than the view was on the road? And how long can I keep it there before they decide that none of us should have jobs anymore? So there's definitely responsibility there. But one of the great things about the job is that i get to spend the rest of the week planning things for them to react to so in many ways it's a job of

entrapment where i put them in situations where i know they're going to react and they're probably going to get themselves near the you know the edge of trouble and i spend most of my week deciding like hey can we break something in the set uh can we bring a live animal in the set and the cool thing at turner is a lot of the answers to those questions unlike other places i've worked i'm not met with silence and like what is he doing i met with all right here's the money go do it it doesn't cost that much go right ahead now were you intimidated by gretzky there's a natural intimidation with wayne gretzky yes it's hard to think of him as a regular human being and just think of the guy

doing regular human being stuff i do remember you know he's he's very casual um he's very nonchalant about uh who he is when he walks in the room but then you have a conversation with him and he says things like hey uh what'd you do this week and you tell him says things like, Hey, what'd you do this week? And you tell him, and then you're like, Oh, what'd you do yesterday? He said, you know, I was out there playing golf with MJ and he shot. Okay. And you're like, whoa, like, do you mean Michael Jordan? He's like, Oh yeah. Yeah. Like, but it's a regular for him. He lives in a very different universe. So I think there is this feeling of like,

he's revered and he is the great one. I mean, that's his nickname. That's insane that this person walks amongst us. But he got on the show. He started chirping people. And then he got chirped pretty early on. And he was willing to go back and forth. And that changed the entire dynamic of the show. Because the one thing I was most nervous about going into this show was, would Wayne Gretzky want to do this?

Would he come in here and decide, I don't need to do this. I'm Wayne Gretzky. This is ridiculous. I don't need to spend my time doing this. I don't need to deal with Liam's ridiculous questions and business antics. Instead, he fully embraced the show. And, you know, when you get Wayne Gretzky out there talking to, before the opening night, talking to Nathan McKinnon and Cale McCarr about the Stanley Cup and what it means, I mean, there is not better television out there. So it's been such a pleasure to work with the guy. You know, the interesting thing about Gretzky too is, you know, we had, while he played, he was never the most vocal player about hockey issues at all. The only real time that I can recall him doing anything, maybe even controversial was

during the 94, 95 lockout, he grew a goatee as a sign of protest. I don't know. He wasn't going to be the marketable Wayne Gretzky anymore. That's one of the things that I'm really impressed about. Like to your point, he doesn't need this. He doesn't have to do it, but it does really very much feel like he wants to do it. Of course he has opinions and now we're really hearing him share some of those opinions. I'm curious as a studio host, I mean, one of the things you can do as a host is you make frames and you put frames around people. It lets you know where the art stops and life begins.

How do you frame Wayne Gretzky as a studio host? I think when I first went into this, my hope was that he could just give me insight into really greatness and the pressure that comes with it. And he could let us into a guy like Conoravid's mind in a way that no one else can and to me that would have been good enough because it's such rare insight into someone who is clearly the most talented at his craft in the entire world but that isn't good enough and he brought us through that what it was like the first couple of seasons, and when it started to get to him that it's not enough to light up the league. You have to win. You have to, and it's going to consume you. That alone was gold, but where he has surprised me is his willingness to come in and share ideas and share his thoughts on topics that I did not believe he would want to and without

prodding. And I go back to early on when Dominik Kashuk was speaking out against Russia and the war in Ukraine and had some pointed messages for Alexander Ovechkin. And we were going on that day. We had one of our outdoor games. We were doing it from the studio. And it day uh we had one of our outdoor games we were doing it from the studio and it was something we had to address during the show wanted to address but i also thought that it may be something gretzky would not want to and i was you know basically going into the studio wondering how i was going to bring this up with everyone and bring it up with gretzky and instead he came to me and said did you see this i would like to talk about it. This is something that's important to hockey on and off the ice. And it's something I have an opinion on. And I was a little surprised. I was definitely taken aback. You know, it's also such an important thing that you have an analyst

that wants to come out, wants to speak from the heart, because really what you want your entire show to be is honesty, right? You want analysts to come out and give honest takes about hockey but also about things that are important to people and when wayne gretzky came in and said that that was something he wanted to do i i would say in many other situations that are similar to that you have analysts in various sports saying you know what give the news i don't want to go anywhere near that i'm afraid to say the wrong thing which is understandable you know if you have someone who's the greatest athlete in his sport that people are going to stop in their tracks and listen to what he has to say and he wants to come out and say something that is meaningful to him on a subject as sensitive of that it's great tv it's compelling

and it's one of those dream scenarios it's what what you want your show to be. And I think I look at our show as something that, you know, it's fun. It's passionate. It's off the rails at times. But I also love the fact that our show is able to pivot. And we are not a show that is going to step away and avoid difficult topics. And when you have the best in the world willing to, you know, go along with that and add to it. It makes for meaningful, meaningful content. So I'm looking at your Wikipedia page. By the way, I just wanted to say,

with Gretzky, I'm not surprised at all he'd be an incredible person to work with. With Kelly Rudy here and Ron McLean, who know him very well, I've had some experience and he's just a fantastic human being. But I'm looking at your wikipedia page liam and the first thing it says is liam mccue born 1976 slash 1977 wikipedia does not

know how old you are so i want to solve this mystery how old are you i 45. 1977 is the correct year. I enjoy that it's well, first off, for a very long time, it was just wrong. It had a date. It had a year and it was wrong. I didn't know about it. And then I believe it was Catherine Tappan, my colleague at NBC, put something out on social media on the fake birthday saying happy birthday. And I had no idea it was even out there. And Catherine's got like, you know, 150,000 followers. And like Catherine, most of those followers are very nice people. So they are just like all about it.

And this is a while ago and I get kids and they're little and I was just getting some sleep and I wake up and there's like hundreds of messages on social media for me and I'm like oh my god like what did I tweet before I went to bed like I feel like I'm in trouble and it's nothing but like happy birthday what's going on here and then after a while it was it was great I didn't want to change it was like six months after my birthday I had a day where everyone was unbelievably nice to me. So I just started thanking people. I was like, this is great. Thanks. Yeah. You know, it's been a great day and I'm letting that go.

So I, but I love that. That's an, I feel like it should say I'm from parts unknown on there as well. You've had, you've had quite a career and I think you're probably like a lot of people in our business that you hope and you dream that you are going to get here, but you never honestly expect that it will. And I'm wondering when you look at your path, you know, just what was the craziest thing that you kind of went through to get here? And was there ever a moment you said, oh my God, I'm actually going to do this? there ever a moment you said, Oh my God, I'm actually going to do this. Yeah, there, there were definitely a lot of ups and downs and I started in some small markets for Tara Hote in Oklahoma city. Uh, but for a while there, uh, for a good year, my wife used to be in TV and she was

a TV reporter and a anchor and in the, uh, Roanoke market in Virginia. And she was living in Lynchburg, Virginia. And for about a year I lived. We were engaged. I basically lived on her couch, unemployed, could not find a job. This was my first attempt at growing a terrible beard. It was even worse than the one I have now. Couldn't be worse than mine, Liam. Couldn't be worse than that one. Yours is real, at least. Mine requires a lot of special effects to make it actually appear decent on TV. I was doing a lot of special effects to make it actually appear decent on tv um i was doing a lot of random jobs in town i actually worked at a news station shooting video for like

reporters who were you know 10 years younger than me and i didn't know what i was gonna do uh and then i got a break and i came to new york and i started working for versus at that point but i think i knew i made it when uh all of a sudden i was living in new york city and nbc was you know i was like hey you know i gotta do a little thing for nbc and uh it's like a two minutes sports update on a sunday you know the u.s bank update and and i'm like i'll take the subway there. And how do I get across town? And they said, oh, no, no, we'll be sending like a black SUV to your apartment, you know, and the guys in my apartment are like, what do you like? You know, they see me. I've dressed in sweatpants all the time. And like when I'm not working, I think they thought I was a drug

dealer. So they were like, who is this guy getting picked up in the SUV? And life felt different. My wife's like, what is going on here? And I think for her, you know, it just changed also because my wife is not big into sports. But she saw me on like a commercial. She's like, that's just bizarre. You know, when you're watching one of your own shows, and you're in your own world, and then your husband appears on TV promoting something. So it's been a wild ride. I did not expect this. I didn't anticipate it at all. I mean, people have these dreams. And I remember guys in grad school at Syracuse were like, I'm going to be the next sports center anchor. I was just like,

I'm like, I just want to be in a pretty good market and work and make a living, you know, pay off some of the student debt. And I think we get caught up in like, what's the next job? What's the next big thing we can do in this world? And we're all kind of hanging on at times because it's, it's a volatile industry. But over the last couple of years, I've had as much fun as I've ever had doing this job,

which is the best part about this group. It's enjoyable is not a grind ever, even during the playoffs when we're working crazy hours. And I want it to stay like this as much as it possibly can. I want to be able to go in every day and just, you know, what's fun about today? What can we, you know, what can we bring to the viewers that's joyful? And if I can keep that going for as long as possible and keep, as Keith Jones would say, just keep fooling them for as long as I can, I'll be happy.

There is that power, right? The power of having enough, like I'm good. This is where I want to be. This is where I be happy. There is that power, right? The power of having enough. Like, I'm good. This is where I want to be. This is where I'm happy. I want to ask one final question of you here, and it's about one of the panelists as well. Every time a coaching position appears in the NHL, do you get nervous and do you call Rick Tockett and say,

are you going to Vancouver? Are you going to Winnipeg? Are you going to Seattle? What happens when there's a coaching vacancy? Do you call Rick? Always. Always. You better break that story here.

Talk it. You better break it here. Oh, well, that's the other thing, right? If I got to read about this somewhere else, I mean, you know, but immediately I text him and I don't ask about the job he may be going to. I usually just send him a text like, hey, you coming to work on Wednesday? And then just dot, dot, dot. And then I just wait.

I'm like, are you going to be in Atlanta or are you moving? And just wait for his response. And then I think what I did last year a lot, and I kind of want to do a little bit more this year. I haven't done a good enough job is sabotaging his ability to get jobs. Because I don't want him to leave. So for a while last year, I would give some random stat about his teams that was completely negative. That maybe that team was looking for. Like, oh, you know giving up this

many shots per game well talk you're brutal with that like you know what you know you've been through this as well what's the problem you know and uh the cool thing is uh and i'm you know listen i think talk wants to coach again i think he's just so competitive. He's so fiery. He loves doing this. He loves doing this. And even when it was really, really starting to heat up with different jobs, I remember like the Flyers, when all these vacancies were out there, he was calling me and saying, hey, we had a good first year, and we're finishing it up, and there's been a lot of great press.

But you know as well as i do that it's always the new kid it's always you know the first timer and people didn't have that great of expectation so they're all impressed and he would say what are we doing to be better next year how are we taking this to the next level and i'm sitting there and i'm like this guy's got options like he can go other places he can coach he can go back. But his mind is still on how do we get better? How do we trim things that need to be trimmed? What do we need to add? How does he need to get better at the job as well?

And it's kind of cool because I haven't worked with many analysts like that who really respect it and want to get better even though they have one foot still back in their former world. Liam, that's an awesome story. Keep burying Talkit. Keep him on the panel. He's a lot of fun to watch. I know he's got that burn inside him. He's a really competitive guy, but along with the rest of your panelists,

you guys are awesome. Top-notch stuff. Thanks so much for stopping by. Have a great holiday break. Hope it's a lot of time with friends and family, and we'll catch up down the road, hopefully sooner than later. Continued success, Liam.

Happy holidays, guys. Appreciate it. All right. Take care, Liam. Thanks so much. All right. Sorry. Thanks for bearing with me there, guys. Elliot, if you've ever seen my radio show on television, either at Sportsnet 360 or Sportsnet Now, over my left shoulder, there is a large, oversized novelty button of the Cleveland Crusaders of the World Hockey Association as given to me as a pre-Christmas present

by our next guest. He is a researcher for HockeyNet in Canada amongst other entities, namely NHL teams. He is Stan Narodka, and he joins us at the holiday party. Stanley, how are you today, friend? I'm excellent. How are you guys? We are doing well. First of all, welcome to the party.

And at said holiday party, what do you normally have in your glass? What are you drinking this time of year? Jack Daniels. Straight? You got rocks? On the rocks. You got it neat? neat okay on the rocks are you one cube or multiple no several okay several all right now now that that concludes my questions for this entire segment because i know i know i'm gonna be punted to the sideline

for this i only have one question i only have one question for you stan the briefcase for those of you who don't know stan legendary he carries an old old school briefcase it might not even be one your dad had it might be one your grandfather had my dad had one but i'm 52 how old is it where did you get it and what is it covered with i got that christmas 1983 as a gift from my mom and the uniqueness of it is that i put all these old stickers on it and i gotta tip my chapeau to samsonite because i've had it all these years and it's still perfect. It looks great. Like it's become, well, I mean, I mentioned researcher for hockey night in Canada. Yeah.

Okay. Hang on. Let me, let me, let me pick it up. So I mentioned off the top Stanley and as part of your introduction, you know, researcher for hockey night in Canada, want you to tell people what that entails other than telling me jokes every Saturday night, which I really, really appreciate. And Stan, by the way, always wears a

vintage something, whether it's hat or t-shirt, and I always get a smile because it's usually WHA related. But you also do research for NHL teams as well. Just kind of give us the bio. Give us the business card right now, Stan. Wow.

I've got so many things going. Like right now I'm sitting at Scotiabank Arena, and I'm going to be doing stats for the Tampa Bay broadcast tonight. So I'm actually in the booth tonight. But I also do things for other teams, mostly Colorado, St. Louis, and Vegas at this juncture, as well as doing Saturday night hockey night in Canada. So it's a pretty busy slate of stuff to do.

It keeps me busy. What's your favorite thing to do? You know what my favorite thing was, Jeff, seriously, was when we had our ice surfing show. Ah, stats man, Stan Narodka. I miss that show. You, me, Yorkie, Dangle. Oh, it was great, man. That was fun. It was sort of a before it's time kind of thing that we did that. And

it was a blast doing that kind of stuff because it was on the go and, but it was a little bit more free form kind of thing. So one of the things that you always come up with and you have your stat du jour, I mean, you're a, you're a must follow for me on twitter um you come up with like and i love like random obscure facts um do you have a pet favorite random obscure facts you know the your version of you know wayne gretzky had more five goal games or wayne gretzky had more five point games than zero point games little things like that. Do you have anything in the back of your mind? There's a few because we were doing Vancouver the other night,

and I found a couple there. Like, for example, Quinn Hughes has got 26 assists but no goals. So I was curious, how many assists, what was the most number of assists somebody had without scoring a goal for a whole year? And the answer is 29, but you have to go back to 1948 with the Leafs. Leafs' Jimmy Thompson did that. Oh, wow. So that's the kind of obscure thing as well.

And the other Vancouver one was Elias Pedersen, who has 13 goals, but none of them on the power play. So he, this year, has the most goals without a power play goal. And he had 10 last year. See, I love it. Quirky kind of stuff like that. People love that stuff. Well, I'm one of those people.

And listen, Stanley and I get together, and we tend to, and I'll dovetail into this conversation. Tell us about the Saints days, the American Hockey League Saints. You were a part of it. Some big names rolled through. I want to ask you about a couple of them. But what do you think of the Saints back in the day? It pretty much started my career.

I started out at a radio station and the Leafs Farm Club moved to St. Catharines, and I applied for the position and got it. And part of it was basically doing everything, and including being the radio color guy for John Kelly, who's now the voice of the St. Louis Blues. So that's pretty cool. Whose father was obviously the legend, Dan. Yes, absolutely.

So what was the craziest thing you saw there? Like what was the wildest thing you ever had to do or you saw happen? Oh, mostly basically just having to take care of everything. Worst was we had a Zamboni that actually crashed and spilled oil all over the rink when we were playing New Haven. And that was at the end of two periods. So we had to scramble like crazy. We ended up playing the third period of that game at 10 o'clock the next morning. The next morning?

The next morning. Because we couldn't get a Zamboni and we couldn't get the ice fixed in time. So we're scrambling and we were up all night trying to get this thing done. And we had to pay new, uh, new Haven for the extra night in the hotels and all of that kind of stuff. Were you with the team when, and this was,

I can't remember. It was like five or maybe seven of them, but Val James and Mike Stothers had a feud like few have ever seen with just insane fights. Were you with the team then, and what do you remember from that feud? There were several fights,

and we knew all along that this was going to be the case, but we played them. Actually, it was funny because the last series that the Saints ever played in St. Catharines was against Hershey. And they beat us out. And Val James actually scored the last goal in Saints history. Oh, did he? Yes.

Yes. And it was weird. And Hershey beat us. And Hershey's backup goaltender that season was Ron Hextall. Right, because that was the farm team for the Philadelphia Flyers at that point. Right. and Hershey's backup goaltender that season was Ron Hextall. Right, because that was the farm team for the Philadelphia Flyers at that point. Right. And the goalie named Darren Jensen was the guy that beat us.

So you would have seen Ty Domi make his pro debut. Not with us. We had players like Steve Thomas, Kenny Raggett. Steve Thomas won Rookie of the Year for us in St. Catharines. You know, Big Daddy Bob McGill was with us. Oh, right, right. That was when he was in Newmarket. That's right. Correct. Domi was in Newmarket. Catharines. You know, Big Daddy Bob McGill was with us. Oh, right, right. That was when he was in Newmarket. That's right.

Domi was in Newmarket. That's right. Yes. Right. So we had guys like that. And John Brophy was the coach the last year and a half. And how did that go? He was everything you thought he would be.

Okay, come on. He's laughing. Tell us something. Give us something. No, but he was also the nicest person because he would take care of the people like the trainers and guys like us who weren't making money, and he would always take care of us

in that respect, and no one did it more for us than he did. Was it true that Brophy used to get Val James shirtless with his hockey pants and stuff on, but shirtless stand in front of the visiting team's dressing room to intimidate them as they came in? Not so much that, but what he would do in the pre, it would be the pregame in the morning skates. So if we were the visiting team, we would go out there and finish first, but then Val would come back out and just sort of stare down the other team. And it was effective. You can see some guys weren't exactly trying to make eye contact.

Yeah, no, I understand that. He was raw bone tough all the way through his pro career. Stan, when you look at your time, and you're still with everybody at Hockey Night in Canada, I can't count the amount of times that I've heard, you know, Stanley, we need this stat. Stanley, we need this fact. When did you realize that this was something you could do,

and how did you get the Hockey Night gig? Well, basically, I was working some games here at the – back then it was at the arena. And they needed somebody in a hurry, and they asked me to go visit Joel Darling the next day. And Joel was interviewing me, and he hired me. And I didn't even apply for the job, which is pretty cool. They just needed someone to do stats. Yeah.

They needed somebody in a hurry and I was available and they said that, uh, you know, when he interviewed me, he realized, and I had a sort of connection with Joel because I covered the stabors when he was an intern there. So who are the demanding hosts? Who are the ones that ask you for the most? I don't even think, I don't even think demanding is the right word. Who are the ones that ask you for the most? I don't even think demanding is the right word. Who are the hosts that really depend on you?

I wouldn't say depend, but the weirdest one, it was always Mike Milbury. Because the one I remember the most was when he would say, Hey, Stan, what's Montreal's power play in the last 10 games? And we're back in five, four, three. And you go, well, you know. I've been guilty of that before, too. I don't like it, but I've been guilty of that before, too. Yeah, that doesn't work.

That's not easy for you. That's the hardest thing is sometimes you've got very little time to find this stuff. Stan, last one for me. And listen, you mentioned you've got a game to find this stuff. Stan, last one for me. And listen, you mentioned you got a game to work here tonight. You and I, and I know Elliot's a fan as well, but we have a love for the late Gilbert Gottfried. And you've listened to, you know, Stan Lee, you've listened to all of, Stan will like shoot me notes.

Hey, another podcast drop. Hey, another podcast drop. We all miss Gilbert Gottfried. Absolutely. My favorite podcast, the ones that he had, Penn Jillette, which was outstanding, and Bob Costas. Bob Costas.

The Bob Costas one is legendary. Yes. Do you have a favorite podcast from the late great comedian? Two of them. Costas would be one, and the other was Bob Saget. Two of them. Costas would be one. And the other was Bob Saget. Oh yeah. This was a Bob Saget you didn't see on Full House.

No. I saw him do stand up. He was incredible. Incredible. And you could take that to the extreme on this one. It made Gilbert Gottfried look sanitized. Oh man. he was great. Listen, you're great.

You do fantastic work. Everybody relies on you. Listen, best of the holiday season. Always look forward to seeing you on Saturdays to see what you're wearing. By the way, what's your favorite piece of old, either WHA or obscure defunct NHL team clothing that you have? I've got an, it's not game worn, but I have an old New York Americans wool sweater.

Oh, nice. Yes. Those are tasty. Is it actually from 1942? No, it's just a remake, but they're hard to get. And it's hanging up in my basement. Yeah. And they look real cool.

And I'll just drop one more, Jeff. You probably know the answer to this. Since we're in the Christmas spirit, who scored the last Christmas goal in NHL history? Oh, hang on. What year are we talking about here? 71. So that would have been, I want to say it was a Minnesota, Los Angeles.

Is it Stan Gilbertson? Correct. Boom, I still got it. What's wrong with you two? Oh, Los Angeles. Is it Stan Gilbertson? Correct. Boom, I still got it. What's wrong with you two? Oh, my goodness. I think Stan Gilbertson lost his leg years later. California beat the LA Kings 4-1, and that was the last one.

See, I was wrong. I thought it was Minnesota and LA. It was California and LA. So Merry Christmas. Holy smokes. Dude, I assure you. Minnesota and LA. It was California and LA. So Merry Christmas. Holy smokes. Dude, I assure you. That was incredible. Listen, knowing stuff like this kept me single for a lot of years.

Don't worry. Don't be too impressed with my life, Elliot. Don't be too impressed. Thanks, Stanley. All right. Take care, guys. Thanks for having me on. Thanks, Dan.

It is a pleasure, and I know she's eager to share a drink with us right now, Elliot, to welcome to the broadcast the holiday show Amrit Gill, producer, reporter. We think of her from Hockey Night Punjabi. And I do have to add, you really did pull off Wednesday Addams. That was all you, and you looked fantastic doing it. Oh my gosh, thank you. Those are my grandmother's braids from back in the day. All my school pictures from kindergarten to about,

I want to say grade six. It was the braids coming in hot. I just, just love it. Okay, so the obligatory, what will you be sipping on this evening question? Okay, guys, if you guys are at the bar, I want a molecular cocktail. What is that? So a molecular cocktail helps you kind of go through a sensory experience when you're drinking.

So it could be a cocktail, and there's like food items and there's display. So it makes you think 32 thoughts, really. Hang on. So I'm looking at this and there's like steam coming off this drink. There could be dry ice involved. Like I want you guys to. This is all new to me. You've just opened up a whole new world.

We have to go get molecular drinks set. There's no chance of me getting anything else done this week after opening this. Like no chance. Oh, wow. These look cool. They're fun. They're super fun. I think it'll help you guys flex your creative muscles a little bit more too.

Got you thinking outside of the box. I could definitely use that. Now, Amrit, the one thing I want to ask you about first is you have a pinned tweet at the top of your account from a face-off you did between the Florida Panthers and the LA Kings. But what I'm more interested in is the jacket. You have a jacket with an imprint on it. And I wanted you just to explain what it is.

Yeah. and I wanted you just to explain what it is. Yeah, so I got a chance to drop the puck at a LA Kings game earlier this year. What an honor of a lifetime, first and foremost. But the jacket I'm wearing, it's a jacket that my best friend Jasmine Funnew designed. She's an artist. And I was like, you know what?

I'm getting this opportunity to drop a puck, but I want to send a message. So I thought about all the things that I cared about, and I came down to social justice and having more women that, you know, look like myself, racialized women in this hockey sphere, and having their beliefs, their interests, and basically giving them an opportunity to drop this puck with me. So the jacket has a woman holding up her fist and I got to wear it at an LA Kings game while dropping a puck. And when I was younger, the first hockey pick that I ever had, it wasn't me in a jersey. It was myself in a Indian traditional suit and it was black and gold. And so it kind of, it was a full circle moment for me because we weren't able to afford jerseys

back in the day, but that's how the jacket came to be. I love it. That is a beautiful story. That is such a beautiful story. You know, we, we, we've asked this of a few people today. Was it always hockey for you going way, way back? Was it always hockey for me? I think growing up in Canada, absolutely. But I wasn't watching for the game necessarily as much as I was watching for the story. I learned early on it was the human side of the game that I love, the human consequences to sport. So it has been hockey from day one, but I never got a chance to play. I used to take in the broadcasts. I sign up for my high school's film and television class and say, hey, we need a sports segment talking about social justice. And I'd use hockey as a tool

to kind of get into various rooms. So from day one, absolutely. You know, it's interesting because one of the things, and it can mean a lot of different things as well. One of the things that I firmly believe in about hockey is the saying, use hockey, don't let hockey use you. And you're obviously using hockey in a very positive direction. I mean, you mentioned, you know, you always look for the human side of things and the human story. Who are some of your inspirations along the way? And who are some of your inspirations now? Yeah, you know, that's a great question. And I would get this question early on in my career. And I get asked, who's my role modeling

in hockey? What do you mean? Like, I didn't have anyone to really look up to. I take inspiration from various people who have, you know, challenged systemic norms in their respected fields. But it's that diversity of thought that I look up to. It's not necessarily a person or civil rights leaders who have a certain framework or a message that has helped create systemic change. But when I think of who I look up to or who I take inspiration from that gives me sustenance to keep going, it's really the kids. It's the future generation. It helps me have that why and that sense of purpose.

It wasn't a big name. It's my community. It's the people that are doing the grassroots work to help bring the data, bring the science, bring the history and the education forward. It's my community and the kids that I look up to for inspiration. You were part of a group that made a big leap for your community by creating Hockey Night in Canada Punjabi and growing it into something. Everything starts small and grows bigger. Hockey Day in Canada Punjabi is a big success story, I think.

And I just wanted to ask you, what do you remember about the first time you were told about the possibility of it? And what was it like to go on air and do it? Yeah, so when I talk about the possibility, I go back to my teenage years, right? Happened to flip the channel and I was like, wait, am I watching hockey in the language that my grandmother speaks? And it was just like a big wow moment because now my grandmother understood the game versus,

and he gets a penalty shot and there's the goal like she was able to understand the workings of the game and it helped reduce that accessibility barrier so that's what i knew of it i didn't really speak benjabi when i was in my teenage years and i understood little bits of it but it was never a language that i was familiar with i was using english all the time. But when I realized it was there was an opportunity was during broadcasting school. I want to say in 2014, 15. And I learned that the studio was in Vancouver, where I lived at the time. And while I was in school, I was in first year, we weren't allowed to have any internships, but we'd have speakers come in offer their advice and their learnings from working in the industry and at that time

Bhupinder Handal who was the news director for Omni and one of the reasons why Hockey Night Punjabi was such a success come in and give us a speech on the industry and what to expect what not to expect but afterwards I went up to him I was like hey can I have an internship can I press a button let me just get in there I used to watch the show as a kid and yeah a couple months later I had an internship was able to press one button one season two buttons the next and then I was like okay hey there's a void here we need to start telling stories let me do it I'll learn language. And he afforded me that opportunity along with my fantastic producer back in the day, Nathan Sagan. Now you have big goals. That's one thing I've heard about you. You have things that

you would still like to accomplish. What are those goals? Where are you looking to go? Oh, you're really putting me in the hot seat. Now I'm going to have some empathy moving forward, and I'm not asking questions. You're altering the construction of my brain with the molecular mixology. I got to come back on some level. You know what? when I walked into this industry, I did not know where I was going to fit in. The gig that I have right now with Hockey Night in Canada's Punjabi edition, there was no job posting. I created that role. And as I worked my way through this industry and had great relationships and have been offered fantastic perspectives from everyone that I work with. I'm finding that sport is really a tool for the greater good.

And I'd like to continue using sport as a tool for the greater good. I love hockey. I love the game. But I feel like my purpose in life is helping solve some of the global challenges that we're facing today, whether it be climate change, whether it be the wealth and income equality gap, the global conflicts that we're seeing, systemic racism, mis- and disinformation. It's how do we use sport as a tool for sustainable development and peace. So obviously right now, I'm almost a decade into my career and making some inroads with hockey, helping slowly but surely reduce the systemic racism

that we've seen through education, first and foremost. But my goal is to help solve some of those global challenges and continue to use sport as a tool amrit if you could see one team lift the stanley cup who would it be well here let me let me maybe add something i'd like to see another player of color lift the cup. Another player that comes from a marginalized group lifts the cup. We saw the impact that Qadri had in his community and globally with those who identify as Muslim and those who don't as well when he was lifting the cup. It went beyond sport. It helped reduce that accessibility barrier as well. So I'd like to see someone from a marginalized group lift the cup again. That's an excellent answer.

That's an excellent answer. There you go. Listen, we wish you nothing more than continued success. Thank you for the drink tip as well. You've opened our eyes to molecular cocktails. I woke up this morning, I never thought I'd hear molecular cocktail, but there it was. No, me neither. I'm learning about it.

And we thank you for that. And we thank you for appearing today. Thanks so much for stopping by. I appreciate the chat. Take care, guys. Happy holidays. Happy holidays, Alma. Bye.

Okay, so there it is. That was the holiday extravaganza. Thank you if you made it this far. I know one of the things that always impresses us is how deeply you listen to this holiday podcast. So if you're hearing me right now, bravo. You are, as you used to say at the Montreal Forum, la première étoile, the first star.

Well done. And thank you. Health and happiness to you and yours at the holiday season. Again, a reminder about the schedule. No new podcast until Wednesday. You'll hear our interview with Marian Hossa. So that's on the 28th. And then we're back to our regular schedule, the NewsPod, Friday, December the 30th. Until then, be safe, be happy, love one another. More podcasts coming up next Wednesday. Thank you.