32 Thoughts: The Podcast - The Dadonov Dilemma

Episode Date: March 23, 2022

What a crazy NHL trade deadline! Jeff and Elliotte break down the Evgenii Dadonov situation and where we might go from here (3:20). They then go over some players that didn’t make a move — Filip Forsberg (21:20), Jakob Chychrun & John Klingberg (45:10) plus teams that went all in and ones that didn’t — Minnesota (24:30), Florida (36:00), Colorado (37:45), Pittsburgh (41:40), Toronto (39:10), Anaheim (43:05), and they take your emails and voicemails (46:30).Music Outro: David Allen James - Where There's Smoke There's FireListen to David Allen James’s entire discography on SpotifyThis podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Merrick Freed, it's your boy Ronnie down here in Hockey Town, USA. Hey, Elliot, I'm going to speak on behalf of the whole city of Detroit and let you know that you've got to pass only because you've worked on Hockey Night in Canada. And that's the only other place I've ever heard it. But you're allowed to say Detroit, or however the beep you say it. I understand you're a distracted guy, but no one here would ever say it like that, but

you got to pass. Okay. Love you guys. Let's go Red Wing. Thank you, Ronnie. I get that all the time. People say to me, it's Detroit, not Detroit. I don't know why I do it.

It's a habit. I've tried to change it. I have a mental block. I don't know why it is. You know why I don't know why i do it it's a habit i've tried to change it i have a mental block i don't know why it is you know why i don't do that there's one very specific reason elliot because that half my family is from livonia michigan so i spent a lot of time in detroit um going to see the tigers and going to see the detroit red wings so i'm always very sensitive i'm very sensitive to that, but you know what? I have my own version of your Detroit, and you know what it is?

Which one? Saskatchewan. I used to call it Saskatchewan because I'm from Ontario. And when I went to Memorial Cup, this would have been for the 100th anniversary, driving from the airport to the hotel room, I was driving with Sam Cosentino and RJ Broadhead. And I said, Saskatchewan.

And RJ whipped around and said, I'm going to help you with something right now. Don't ever call it Saskatchewan. It's Saskatchewan. And I've always called that ever since then. He said, you're going to sound like you're a tourist. I'm like, I am a tourist in this province. But ever since then, all due respect i call it saskatchewan just like it's not toronto it's toronto right for each america i'm too tired for this i i'm late for the taping of the podcast because i fell asleep while writing while you're like you cannot take advantage of my pronunciation

issues like head down on the keyboard? No, I was sitting in bed and I was writing in bed and I fell asleep and I woke up and it was, we were supposed to start at 8.40, 8.30 and it was 8.45 and there was a lot of letter Y's on the screen. All right, let's get going. People want the news. All right, here we go. Presented by the all new GMC AT4 lineup. It is going. People want the news. All right, here we go. Presented by the all-new GMC AT4 lineup, it is 32 Thoughts, the podcast. And we wanted to get this done as soon

after trade deadline as possible. And this is it. Like, that's how busy it's been. Before we're going to get to some of the trades here, Elliot, and we'll get to the Philip Forsberg situation too, I want to talk about that. But the latest on Yevgeny Dadunov right now and the trade to LA, which is right now in limbo as players are in limbo as well, most notably Dadunov here. As we record this, what is the very latest you know, or you can share with us from this situation. This is Tuesday night. So it's a little quieter tonight than it's been since Monday night during the day on

Tuesday where there was a lot of information coming in. We are waiting for the NHL to rule here. And I think the easiest way to do this is to start at the beginning. Let's just do it as if we're talking linear time. Okay. So the Dadnov Holden trade, that's where you want to begin with? I want to even go before that. Oh, okay.

So I'm going to give you the information that I understand from Dodano's contract, okay? Okay. He signed a three-year deal in Ottawa covering the 2021, 21-22, and 22-23 seasons. Okay. According to the 2021, 21-22, and 22-23 seasons. According to the contract, and nobody would let me see it, but I asked enough people for the language that I believe that this is true, Dodonov cannot be traded to another NHL team without first allowing the player

to provide the club with a written list, a no-trade list of up to 10 teams that he can't be dealt to. And there's also three dates that the no-trade list must be provided to the club. January 50th, 2021, which was, of course, since we started last year in January. Yep. Or July 1st, 2021 and July 1st, 2022. Some people were saying to me, if you were a lawyer, you could argue that one either way. You could say, well, if you're going to trade him, you've got to get asked for a list,

or you could say he has to have the list on before those days every year or it's voided. So that was one issue. That kind of became moot because as it turns out, Dodonov and his agent submitted this year's list on June 30th, 2021. So it was due July 1st. It was in the day before. And there is now a record. I've been told by several people saying that,

yes, it was emailed to the senators on June 30th. And yes, a receipt of confirmation. We've got this was returned. I know you're going to ask me who wrote that. I don't know yet, but there is, I've been told,

that the league and the Players Association are aware that an email was provided saying we have confirmed we have received this. On July 28th, Dodonov was traded from Ottawa to Vegas. Now, Ottawa could do that. Dodonov did not have Vegas on his 10-team no-trade, so he could be traded there. Anaheim was on it, but it didn't matter because he wasn't being traded there at the time. Also, something some people have asked me, if a player is traded, does their no trade or no move protection go with them?

The answer used to be no, but now it's yes. Yeah, they got traded and they waved their claws, their claws would come back with the new team. So that is different now. Some people weren't aware of that. On July 28th, when he was traded, somewhere during that conversation, that conversation the golden knights and the nhl gained the belief that the donna's no trade was no longer in effect so basically what happens there's a trade call the two teams are on it and central registry is on it and central registry is sort of the clearinghouse. They make sure that every contract, every signing, every trade is done properly with league rules. And as someone said to me on Tuesday as a joke and a compliment,

they are anal retentive beyond belief. They are very thorough. And what happened here, and I have a couple of different theories. Number one, either it was somehow forgotten that he had submitted his updated list or what was submitted on the call because central registry would ask the question, hey, he's got a no trade. Is there any problem with it here? Or the previous no trade, for some reason, the 2020-21 no trade list was submitted, which again, did not have Vegas, but did have Anaheim, but wouldn't have had a problem with being traded to Vegas at that time.

However, if the 2021 list was the one submitted, then everybody would have looked at it and said, Dodonov is late with his list. He has lost the power to block any trade. You know, the most famous case where that happened was Patrick Berglund from St. Louis to Buffalo. To Buffalo, yeah. He was late getting his list in

and the Blues traded him to Buffalo in the Ryan O'Reilly deal. I believe there are two other recent cases where this has happened, but I don't have them all nailed down, so I won't say it. There was one, although the player never got traded, there was a player in Florida who submitted late

and it voided their no trade. They didn't end up trading him, but there was a player in Florida and I'm racking my brain all day to try to remember who it was. I don't think that's the only time. I know of at least one other situation where I believe that happened,

but you're right. It comes down to does the team really want to trade you or not. Yeah. I think the number one thing that's going to come out of this is why aren't all of these filed with central registry? Like I've had a lot of people say to me today, well, you know, all you got to do is go on cap friendly and you know what the clauses are. Well, it's not entirely true. CapFriendly is an excellent resource. It is right

99% of the time. They don't have every clause correctly. I remember RJ Umberger saying people go onto these sites and they're wrong. And earlier this week, for example, the Tyler Myers one was wrong. So Cap so cap friendly is a great site excellent but like everyone else they're human they make mistakes i think they're gonna have to do this now they're gonna have to say that all lists go on central registry but i will say this one of the reasons it hasn't happened is some of the agents don't like it. Why? Because, for example, if I ever call an agent and say, hey, I hear your guy is going to get moved, and he says yes, but remember, he's got a 10-team no trade,

well, who's on that list? They don't want to tell you. And they'll say, do you think I want it out there that so-and-so player doesn't want to go to Ottawa or Toronto or Vancouver or New York or whatever? Because they don't want the grief from all those fans. They believe it should be private. And the more people who have access to something,

the more that information has a chance of getting out there. Right. There are some agents who believe it should be just between the team and the player and the agent. And I, you know, I'm saying we have to change that now. Some of them agree.

They're like, yeah, you know, this, we have to change it. This Some of them agree. They're like, yeah, we have to change it. This is what's got it. But others are like, I'm still not crazy about it. But we're going to have to create something. So whatever the case is, whether it wasn't presented or the old one was presented and everyone says here now, oh, he's lost his no trade protection, something like that happened.

And here's the thing. A lot of people go after Vegas and say, well, it's typical of what they do or whatever. Here's the thing here. And there's a lot of people in the NHL saying this. The person who runs Central Registry, who's at the top of it, is a gentleman named Sean McLeod. And Sean McLeod keeps himself at bay. He doesn't talk to the media. Like I'm going to tell you one story about Sean McLeod. I used to send him emails from time to time looking for clarity on things. And he said to me in person once, he saw me at GM meeting. He said, look, I'm never going to answer your emails. I just don't think it's the right thing to do. I shouldn't be talking to you.

And I didn't do it for a few years. And then this year when the whole whole acting was going on, was it 10 starts or was it 10 appearances? I sent him a note and he just sent me back another note saying, you know, I know it's been a while, but I think this expertise is for the teams and it's not for you. And I said, okay.

It's his no talk list. Yes. You're on his no talk list. He's honest. People do not question this guy's sense of fairness and his sense of honesty. And I think that's the thing that's made a lot of people pause here, is that why would Central Registry and the person who leads it, who's very honest in most people's eyes, I didn't speak to anyone today who had anything bad to say about him and says he tries his best to be helpful to everyone. Why would Central Registry believe

that this trade could be approved? Something had to happen to convince him or them that Vegas could make this deal. This deal was approved. So something happened in that Ottawa conversation with Vegas where they believed that they could do this. Now, I've heard lots of rumors about the last couple of days and when Dodonov knew and when Dodonov didn't do. I'm not comfortable wading into all of that. But basically, when he got traded, either he or his agent said, you can't do that. on that because the one thing that i'm stuck on here is this could have been a non-story if vegas had just called the agent before the trade to say we're trading your client to the anaheim ducks yes at which point the agent would have said hold on a second we have a no trade and

anaheim is one of the teams and but we don't know that didn't happen. But Vegas would have said, I'm sorry. We're doing it anyway? No, it's not so much we're doing it. Are we going to try it? No, no, no, no, no. If that conversation happened, Vegas would have said, you don't have a no trade. It's been voided.

Because when we did the deal with Ottawa, we were told your no trade had been voided. That's the assumption I'm working under right now. And I have reason to believe that that's exactly what happened. I think the agent said it's not voided. It was filed. And Vegas said us, in conjunction with the NHL from that trade, believes that it was voided.

So Vegas believes it had the right to make this deal. And remember, this deal was approved by the NHL. Like I'll say to you, I can't tell you, Jeff, how many people said to me on Tuesday, if they have a document that says it was received, this trade has to be voided. I had agents telling me that. I had teams telling me that. You name it. They said, it's as simple as cut and dry. So I asked them one question. Why would Central Registry approve the deal if they believe that? It's simple. Piece of paper says you can't go to Anaheim. Central Registry will tell you he can't go to Anaheim central registries will tell you he can't go to anaheim it's happened to everybody that's always one of the questions that gets asked is there anything here that prevents

this trade from happening from a no trade or no move point of view and if there is do you have the paperwork essentially how could both vegas and the nhl not know just to simplify well it's actually two questions it's how could they not know and i think the more curious among us are why did they not know like what happened okay so there was something on that trade call from ottawa to vegas that convinced both vegas and the nhl thatonov had lost his no trade protection. And it's either because they were told that he hadn't filed it or they were given an old list, which made everybody assume that he hadn't filed the updated one. Those are the two most likely scenarios.

First of all, you know, one of the questions I have about all of this, like right now, because there are players in limbo, you know, John Moore's in limbo right now. And of course, so is Dodonov who we're talking about and ryan kessler let's not forget ryan kessler he's in limbo will someone please think of ryan kessler through all of this thank you very much someone please think of kess who's paying the donoff right now yeah you know i don't know the answer to that question you know almost told me well when i finally crawled out of bed almost told me you were thinking about that i have to think it's anaheim but i would assume they would be reimbursed there's not a trade though yes there is the trade has not been voided

yet and it was approved i assume it's anaheim but i assume they will be reimbursed so one of the things that is going to happen out of this, I have to think is that they're going to have to come up with another system for this. I don't know that this has ever happened before. Like we've all heard of trades. You know, Berkey talks about the fax machine. Drew Remenda told me today, he reached out that Kelly Kisio,

who now works for Vegas, was traded by San Jose and the trade was voided because the fax machine didn't work. That happened to Bill Waters in Toronto. Remember with Jonas Froegren? Oh, right. I was sorry. It was not Berkey. It was Bill Waters with the fax machine.

That's right. That was. Wilbur always talked about that with the Jonas Froegren fax machine snafu. That's right. I'm sorry. You're right. I thought it was Berkey, Waters, one, you know, they're all the same to me.

One old school guy, another old school guy. Here's what I've always wondered about. And Gary Bettman was asked about this and his answer was nobody's interested in that. I've always wondered why the NHL, since they have all of the information, why don't they make their own version of cap friendly? I've heard that question a lot today too,

and I think they should. I don't understand why they don't. But again, I told you there were some agents that said to me they don't want that information. They want that information kept as private as possible that some of them think it makes their clients look bad. Yeah. I would be curious to know what the players would think.

Would you want it central or would you want this? Because that's basically what it's coming down to. It's central or this. Right. This happened because it was not central. All right. So this drama continues. Okay.

Now, hold on. I think we should answer a couple more things. The one thing I believe, I believe unless the Donoff changes his mind, that this is going to get voided. So if this gets voided, then Vegas is frozen. Yes. But Arizona to the rescue.

How? Well, the trade deadline remembers a deadline for the rest of that year. Correct. I believe that a team like Arizona will make itself known if you want to try again, we're here. Again, I don't know if the Coyotes

are on his list or not. One of the reasons that California teams apparently were on his list was for tax reasons. Arizona's got a really good tax setup. And the other thing too is now, if the Donoff gets traded, he can't play the rest of this year. And that's something else I want to clean up.

There are people saying that he can play in the regular season, but not in the playoffs. It's not true. You can't play at all. You can't play. That's in the NHL bylaws. But I don't think Arizona's going to have a problem

with saying, look, if you want to try this with us and he can come to us, we'll do this. So I don't think this is necessarily over, but definitely the Golden Knights are in a bad way if they can't find a way to move his salary and do some work here. I was asking the capologists from several teams and they were telling me there's no way Vegas can activate guys without clearing some room here.

And that's why I said they're frozen. Yeah. They're stung. Like Elsa, they are frozen. They are frozen. Now, did that all make sense? I hope so. I've been reading so much about this today

and talking so much about this today is, it's interesting. The more people that I talk to, the more different teams get their finger pointed at here. It seems as if a couple of people that I talked to said, well, this is all Ottawa's fault. A lot of people that I talked to said, no, it's all Vegas's fault. So did that make sense? I think so. But to be honest with you, it's getting late.

You were the guy that had the nap, so you be refreshed i'm i'm getting a little dozy well like i said the biggest one is that central registry yeah which has no bias here cleared the trade you know no matter what you may think about ottawa's role here or what you no matter what what you may think about Vegas's role here, the fact is central registry cleared the deal and people look positively at central registry. Remember when Jim Rutherford took over in, in Vancouver, he talked about how they were helping him through every day until he hired someone to manage his cap, right? Yes. So that happening has everybody's eyebrows raised. Like how did,

why did they believe Vegas could make this deal? Phillip Forsberg is still a member of the Nashville Predators. He does not have a contract passed this season. Should Nashville fans be concerned? Or do you look at this and just say, look, we're headed to eight years, $8.5 million. To you and me, that number makes sense. But if it was so easy, Jeff, it would have happened already. Would it?

I don't know. Is that a number that Nashville's, I look at it and I say it's below Yossi. It's a little bit more than Matt DeShane and Ryan Johansson. It kind of makes sense. I've always believed that that's where we're going to get to, right?

Somewhere between those numbers. But I would have thought it would have gotten done by now. I don't think that the Predators are a hundred percent comfortable with this. They look at their history, right? And they think about Ryan Suter and they know this is a gamble. Yeah.

I think they believe Forsberg wants to stay there. So they're hopeful. They definitely checked the market. Like I'll say this. I had a bit of a blow up about something I said on the weekend with, uh, it all calmed down with one GM. And he said,

you know, you shouldn't say I was shopping this guy. I'm not shopping this guy. I never, I said, I never said that. I said that I think there's interest in them. I think at this time of year,

everybody's so sensitive that, you know, language, you know, becomes an issue. And I don't think that the Predators were ever shopping Forsberg, but I absolutely think that they spoke to people about him so that they knew

what the market was. Like after what happened with Souter, someone said to me, it would have been a dire liction of duties for Poyle. Hang on a second. Just for our listeners though, the situation with Ryan Souter was, you know, he went past trade deadline as well.

The Nashville Predators were very much of the belief that they would be able to sign him going into the off season. Instead, he turned around with Zach Parise and signed with the Minnesota Wild. And that surprised and really disappointed the Nashville Predators. And their fans. Yeah. So that's what someone said to me was, it's a dire election of duties if Poyle isn't able to at least go to ownership or know for himself, this is what we could get if we make the deal.

I heard that there were some people even in the organization who brought up at some of their meetings, maybe we should do it. But the thing about Poyle is that he's not afraid. He's made some of the biggest trades in hockey history, and he simply went out there and said, we're going to hold him, and I think we can do this. That's where we are. I think they're hopeful that at the end of the day,

they're going to be able to get Forsberg done, and he'll want to stay. But it's a gamble. I just heard they notified at some point in time, I don't know whether it was Sunday or Monday, they notified Forsberg they're not trading him. And I have to say from everything I know in that seat, I would have to believe that I probably would have done the same thing.

You're putting yourself out there. It's risky, but I understand why they did it. What's more interesting to you, a buildup or a teardown? A buildup. You're always trying to win, right? Okay. Let's do Minnesota instead of Anaheim first. The Minnesota Wild over the weekend and the moves by Bill Guerin

led by the Marc-Andre Fleury deal. You were on this Saturday on Hockey Night, and it all came together on Monday. How'd they get there? Someone reached out to me on Saturday morning and this is a person I really trust. Their information is good. And they sent me a text saying,

Fleury to the wild, you heard it here first. And whenever I get a text like that, it's like, tell me what you're thinking. And so I got some notes, which I will keep private. And I said, there might be something to this. I called someone who I think would know. And we communicated throughout the day on Saturday. And we got to a point where we believed, yes, there was something to it.

The Minnesota Wild, because they had nearly traded for Fleury a couple years ago out of Vegas, believed that because of their geographical situation to Chicago and the history between Bill Guerin and Marc-Andre Fleury, that if they could make a trade with Chicago, they could get it done. That Fleury would say yes to them. is Chicago, they could get it done, that Fleury would say yes to them. And I heard that Guerin reached out after the Hagel deal with Tampa and said, okay, you just got two firsts for Hagel.

Would you take a second for Fleury? You know, I think Chicago said we'd be willing to think about it. And they kind of reengaged. Now, I think it was a battle. You know, it took some brokering, I think, to get them to where they were a second first with conditions because I think that Minnesota believed that it could get done for a second. I think Chicago said, no, we'd really like to hold out for a first. And, you know, the fact that he started that game on the Sunday, that was really weird that he played that game on the Sunday night.

I was very surprised. That was a bit of a hard ball, I have to say. Not just weird, but also dangerous. Did you not get the, what are you doing feeling when he lost his glove and was playing net without the glove? And you're all thinking to yourself that could be it for fleur like he tries to catch that puck that's gonna break his hand and he's fearless with the glove off and all like all i can think was i'm watching this game all i'm thinking about is well there goes someone off the list there goes someone huff trade deadline

as mark andre fleury's playing without a glove. It is dangerous. I mean, that was some real hard ball, but they got to the condition on Monday morning and the deal got done. And I like the deal for Minnesota. I have to say, you know, Kyle Davidson, as he starts his GM career, he gets into a fight with Kyle Dubas. And, you know, I heard behind the scenes negotiations with Guerin were pretty hilarious.

I think those guys went toe-to-toe with each other. But that's okay. You're getting yourself started in the NHL. I can understand you trying to tell people that you're not a pushover. They got the deal done, but I heard those were some pretty contentious talks too at times. But that's what happens at this time of the year. It's a big-time, tough poker game. And Guerin does not back down.

And I think Davidson wanted to show everybody too, he's not going to back down in the heat of the moment. I want to get to Dubas and Davidson here in a couple of moments, but let's close the loop on the Minnesota Wild. Nick Delorier and Jacob Middleton. So the team gets tougher. The team gets, listen,

Nick Delorier is a really good penalty killer as well. Scored the game winning goal in his first game with the Minnesota Wild as well. That's the way you leave an impression. Tyson Jost as well. And they trade Jack McBain to the Arizona Coyotes getting a second round pick, which Bill Guerin was looking for all along in return. Do you have a thought on the rest of what Minnesota did here? Well, they wanted to get edgier and they did it at both the blue line and up front.

They wanted some beef on the blue line and Middleton definitely qualifies. I did wonder if they wanted to send, you know, one of the goalies to Chicago. I'm curious to see what Chicago is going to do in that. Like they don't have anybody signed for next year.

So I thought maybe one of those goalies was going to the blackhawks didn't happen i like minnesota i think they've got a really interesting team those central division playoffs are going to be brutal i like them i think they're going for it there's going to be some great playoffs this year the first round is going to be incredible i really believe it. How would you feel, Elliot, if you were a junior hockey player and you went to the draft and day two arrived and you had your family there and you heard every single name

called right up to pick number 209 and the last one was 210 and then you heard your name? Yeah. Because that's what happened to Jacob Middleton in 2014, the last man in the and then you heard your name yeah because that's what happened to jacob middleton in 2014 the last man in the draft it's amazing you know one of the things that i think is really amazing about the nhl is you know in the nfl draft they call that guy mr irrelevant the last player that gets taken how many mr irrelevance have had good careers in the nhl in the last 20 uh jonathan erickson jonathan erickson

was the last one that's right i forgot about that and and and the best looking last overall pick as well we should throw in there as well well you know i think that's we should have a contest who's the best looking last overall pick last overall pick beauty contest. I'll counter with Patrick Hornquist. He was the last overall pick and I'm going to cheat a little bit. Brian Elliott was the second last overall pick. Okay. Only Arseny Bondarev of New Jersey was the last pick, but Brian Elliott has played over 500 games and that draft 271, which was 21 picks earlier was Halak okay let me give you another

one and it's not anyone that had an nhl career was cut his hockey career is cut short because of an injury but he's a major nhl personality we go all the way back to the 1985 draft selected 252nd overall by your Philadelphia Flyers, Paul Maurice. Ah, nice one. Five picks before him, or six picks before him, John Ferguson, now assistant general manager of the Arizona Coyotes. But yeah, Paul Maurice was a Mr. Irrelevant too.

And not as handsome as Jonathan Erickson either. Sorry, Paul. He's going to be really offended by that. He'll be very offended. Paul will be very offended by that, yes. So that's a good one. That's a really good one. I didn't realize that Maurice was the last overall pick.

From your Windsor Spitfires defenseman, Paul Maurice. Yes, teammate of Peter DeBoer. What were we talking about? We were talking about the Minnesota Wild, then we went down a detour. Let me get back to something here. So that was one of the buildups. another big build-up for the new york rangers uh who added a lot i mean this was like lawn sprinkler time like a lot of names uh coming

in justin braun on the blue line andrew copp comes in and there's a lot of teams that were looking at cop tyler mott comes in like what did you make of what the rangers did this is this is you know drury's first trade deadline i would like to know what he tried to do and didn't get done do you have a feeling jeru now i'd like to talk about jeru for a second because there's been a lot out there claude jeru earned the right to make his call he signed a contract that said he had the no-move clause. And we were on top of this. We reported Colorado. We reported Florida weeks ago that Florida was going to be in this.

And I think all these teams made offers. SACIC admitted that they were interested. I think Boston. And I would think that the SACIC offer, I wouldn't be surprised, and I can't say this with 100%, but I wouldn't be surprised if the SACIC offer was similar to Lekanen's that he got for Lekanen, but better. Justin Baron in a second. I wonder if it was Baron in a first.

Again, that is me wondering about that, if that is what they kind of offered for that. Because I had heard that they and i think we said this on friday's podcast they liked the colorado offer better than they liked the florida offer yeah so i gotta say to you on thursday night and i don't remember even what we said on friday but now i can crystallize it a bit more like everybody was saying Giroux was going to Florida and the guy who was saying no was Chuck Fletcher who was the guy who could make the call and I think I know what is behind all this for example they play that game Thursday they have the great ceremony and then they fly to Ottawa and Giroux's not going. And one of the people who reported that he was going to be traded to Florida that night

was the Nasty Knuckles podcast, which is hosted by a former flyer named Riley Cote. Now, Riley Cote is not throwing that out there just blindly. You know, he's a smart guy. We've had him on the podcast before. And I asked somebody, why was this out so much on Thursday night when the trade wasn't done until Saturday? And they said, because Giroux told everybody

that's where he was going. He told the teammates, because I guess some guys asked him, where are you going to be? And he said, I'm going to Florida. So Riley Cote, I have no doubt, has good contact still in the players of the Flyers, and I think that's why he said what he said. That's my theory. So I think Claude Giroux had made his decision that he was going to be a Panther, and I think some other teams had kind of stepped up and talked. Avalanche, obviously,

I'm guessing Rangers, I'm pretty sure Bruins. But the decision was in. The Panthers, they grinded Philly hard. So one person that I spoke to said, it sounds like Florida's not even interested anymore. Like that's how much they played. Yeah, we're only going to do it on our terms and we're just going to hand you feathers. Like it was a game by the Florida Panthers.

They knew that they had them. And to your point, they were going to grind the Philadelphiaida panthers they knew that they had them and to your point they were going to grind the philadelphia flyers i think that's exactly true i think that they just said look like it's us we believe it's us and they made it really hard if you look at last year with taylor hall from buffalo to boston there were boston fans who were disappointed about the return but taylor hall had the right he assigned a contract that had the right. And that's exactly what happened with Claude Giroux here. And I'll tell you this was Philly upset at Florida,

probably, but I think at the end of the day, the flyers knew that Giroux had the right. And I think there was also understanding this was their long-time captain who'd given them everything they had and they owed him to do right by him and i think that's where we got to they got owen tippett they got a third and they got a conditional first round pick in 2024 given the circumstances that's good no the Flyers fans didn't think so. They didn't think so, but given the circumstance, given what you're, I mean, Florida's not going to negotiate against themselves. They knew they were the preferred destination.

That was the place that, to your point, Giroux wanted to go. I think if anyone was in Florida's shoes, they would have done the exact same thing. Do you have a quick thought on the Cats? I mean, the Ben Girard deal, the Aaron Eckblad injury, Giroud comes in at practice. This is exciting. At practice on Tuesday morning,

they're working on a five-forward power play unit, which is terrifying for other teams. Giroud playing with Alexander Barkov and Carter Verhege at the skate on Tuesday. Until the first shorthanded goal. That's always the the way it is and it's going back to being conservative well i like i like the fact that they're trying it i really do i mean also robert hagg yep they got d the guy i'm rooting for the most is zach blad i really do i stay healthy man yeah you know i want him to come back i do believe this if he doesn't come back i think they're going to be in trouble they seem very hopeful but if it's a high ankle sprain which is what it sounds like it is

those things are incredibly tricky yeah incredibly tricky two and a half months normally you're looking at for a high ankle sprain i believe again i don't play a doctor only i i'm not a doctor i only play one on a podcast but two and a half months seems to be consistent with people that I've spoken to that have had the high ankle sprain in hockey. I don't like that one. You mentioned Colorado a second ago. Arturi Lekkonen, I really like this player. I do too. Josh Manson comes in.

Andrew Cogliano as well. Listen, man, there's no way around it. This is go for it year for year for the Avalanche, and it's been that way all season long. It's been that way when they moved the move for Darcy Kemper, and it was this way when it came trade deadline time, even before when they added Josh Manson, and it was this way trade deadline time

when they added Cogliano and Arturi Lekkonen. Your thoughts on Joe Sakic? I think they were in on, obviously, Giroux. I think they were in on Kopp. I'm betting they were in on Moore. I like Lekanen a lot. I think that's a really good player for them. The thing that's interesting to me is,

and I've said this a couple times now, is the difference between the East and the West at the deadline. You know, who loaded up in the West? Colorado. It was Calgary. It was Minnesota. And St. Louis went out and they got Nick Letty.

Nick Letty. A lot of other teams kind of held stiff. By the way, I think Edmonton was in on Lackanen. I think that was a player that they really liked. And in the East, everyone went for it. Everyone added. All the playoff teams you mean yes that's that's all that really matters right it's at this time of year well i mean listen yeah we just talked

about the florida boston goes out and grabs you know the big name there hampus lindholm and signs them to the extension uh mark sherdano and colin blackwell go to toronto um hegel and paul to tampa as they try to redo that uh that Gord line. The Rangers made their moves. Carolina picks up Max Domi. And probably this is probably the best team that Max Domi's ever played for in the NHL, too. This is going to be interesting to see how Domi does surrounded by that all-star cast. Ricard Raquel to Pittsburgh and Marcus Johansson to the Washington Capitals. Those are the highlights from the East.

And those are really big teams getting really big players, Elliot. Absolutely. I think everybody there thinks they can win. It's a tough one with Toronto, Sandin. Okay, yeah. I mean, it doesn't sound good. Again, I don't want to throw darts at it, but this one does not sound good at all.

I think the question is going to be, does he think he can play on it with a brace or something like that? Tough call. Really tough call. I did mention that I wanted to get to Dubas and Davidson. So let's just get it out of the way now. What did you make of that?

Yeah. Flare up between the two. So we talked about it on Friday for Hagel. I didn't realize that Fleury was in it at the time and they did ask for nize and a first round pick and the leads just said we're not going to do that so i think the thing that bothers toronto the most is that it was a trade that was talked about that wasn't going to happen toronto said no hang on to clarify this was a trade that toronto didn't bring up this is a trade that chicago brought no no i don't know i think i don't know if they like i don't know if toronto brought

it up i don't know who brought i'm sure toronto called them about flurry they were looking for a blackwell slash hegel type player right yeah so i'm sure toronto called them and i'm sure the two sides looked at the deal but once tor Toronto knew what the ask was going to be, they were not willing to do it. It never got to flurry. Like he wasn't even asked because Toronto said, we're not doing it for that price. And Hagel goes to Tampa and they're like, yeah,

we weren't doing this. Like, it's not like Toronto made the offer and Chicago turned it down. First of all, Dubas hates leaks like a lot of guys do. So he's annoyed about that. But secondly, they're looking at it and saying, we decided we weren't going to make this deal. Like it's not like they took Tampa's offer instead of Toronto's. They decided they weren't doing that.

I think what they're worried about is what is the effect this have on Jack Campbellbell by the way i heard there were like five waiver claims for satari hang on how many claims i heard there were four or five claims for him how many were just to mess with the maple leaves because i don't know about you but that afternoon every time i checked in with the team and brought that up the question was well we're not going to do it, but we hope somebody else does. I wonder if Toronto's smarter play would have been to give him a two-year deal. Maybe.

I don't know. I mean, I'm just throwing spaghetti at the wall, but I just was thinking about that. I was talking about it with some people. To the Pittsburgh Penguins, and Ricard Raquel is the big move there i like pittsburgh going for it because this will probably be sydney crosby's last shot at a stanley cup with this group that still carries with it the memories of previous victories and

stanley cups and successes and future hall of fame performances, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. What did you make of the Penns saying, you know what? Eventually we're going to have to restock the cupboards, but this team is so good. Let's kick the can down the road for one more season. I like it. Matter of fact, I love it. What about you?

Why not Pittsburgh go for it? What did Berkey say? They were initially offered or asked for a first and a prospect and they said no. He said when they first checked in on Ricard Raquel about his availability, they were told it'll cost you a first round pick and a top prospect. So they waited it out. That's basically what happened was Verbeek was shopping him around,

waited it out, took it down to the deadline, took his best offer, and his best offer was Pittsburgh. Raquel, as long as he stays healthy, he'll be great great there that's a great move for the penguins uh it is berkey says he'll play a bottom six role um but i have a feeling that at some point he'll probably end up playing with malkin don't you it just seems like a natural fit but it does we uh we'll see um to raquel's previous team actually we started the podcast by talking about the Anaheim ducks in a way, but here we are again. Uh, what do you make of the teardown?

Like there's a lot of people there that worked really hard this year to get the ducks to a place where they were competitive and flirting with the playoffs and December was great, et cetera. And then Lindholm gone, Manson gone, Deloria gone, Ricard Raquel gone. And I think to some in that organization, listen, it's a punch in the gut when that happens after a lot of hard work this season. Business is business. Pat Verbeek said, we're not letting people walk out of here without getting something.

I think for some, it feels like they've jumped back two seasons perhaps. But going into this year, I think you know pretty much everybody was told expect some more pain this season and maybe next season as well yeah i i think it's obvious which way this is going to go for anaheim they want to make changes and it sounds to me in their gm interviews they made it very clear to people that they were going to make changes. And I think that's one of the reasons. I mean, I think Verbeek might have gotten the job anyway, but his fearlessness to make change, I heard, really appealed to them. And he's now done it.

You know, to me, the teams in the next few months that are going to be the most interesting, Anaheim, you know, what's John Gibson's future? Philadelphia, the likes of Konechny, Provorov, Sanheim, Winnipeg, I think they're going to have some big decisions at the end of the year. Shifley, Dubois, Hellebuck maybe. Where are they going with all these players?

I think at the end of the year this year, there's going to be a lot of hard conversations about where some teams are going. You want to throw Dallas into that mix too? Dallas to me has already begun the turnover, right? To the Haskinons and Robertsons and Hinzes. Yes. Haskinons signed and they're going to extend Robertson. I think that's already happening.

extend Robertson and they're going to, I think that's already happening. Even though Sagan's still there and Ben's still there and some of those guys are still there, I think they've basically begun their turnover. To the guys that didn't move at deadline, Jacob Chikrin, John Klingberg is another one as well. Any thoughts on players we thought might, we already talked about Philip Forsberg. Thoughts on those two defensemen that stayed, didn't get moved. I mean, Chikrin might just be a draft day deal, open yourself up to 31 teams.

Kessel surprised me too, but I heard after they kept money on Larson, they couldn't keep money on Kessel, and that ruined his chances of going anywhere. How about his sister breaking it on Twitter? Yeah. Insider. She should go on one of the trade panels. We'll take her.

I just think Arizona set a level, and when Arizona saw what guys went for, what Sherratt went for. Oh, yeah, they weren't budging. Lindholm went for. They said, we have to have a high price here. Yeah. And the other thing, too, is with Klingberg,

I think Jim Nill was like Kent Hughes. He said, I'm setting a price and meet my price or no. And we need him. We need him. In Dallas for this playoff push. Okay, we're going to hit a pause. We're going to come back with some of your questions and phone calls. 32 Thoughts continues.

Keep it here. Okay, 32thoughts.sportsnet.ca, the email address, the phone number, 1-866-311-3232. That is the thought line, 1-866-311-3232. A voicemail from Craig. Let's kick it off there. Hey, guys. Craig here from Nowhere, Ontario. Quick question for you. Regarding Toronto's lost goaltender, could you guys

please break it down how a foreign player can sign a contract with an NHL team, go on waivers, which makes sense, but then be scooped up by somebody else even though they've signed a contract with that specific team. That's the one thing I find confusing about the waiver situation.

Jeff, Amal, Elliot, great job. Special shout out to Elliot for the autism awareness pen. It's seen by many and appreciated by all. Thanks, guys. Keep up the great work. Nice touch, Craig. Elliot? Well, I'm glad that it's meaningful to you, Craig. I do appreciate it. Basically, what it goes back to was every year there was a defenseman in Rayo Rutzleinen in the 80s, and he was a really talented defenseman who would play overseas for three quarters of the season and would come back at the end of the year, join the Edmonton Oilers,

make them better and help them win another stanley cup and eventually it got to a point where the league said we have to stop this so if you play overseas and you play in another year and you try to come back to the nhl late in the year even if someone signs you yeah you know you have to be offered up to everyone. And that's exactly what happened here. It's basically the, the Roetzelian rule. If you want to call it, that's where it starts. You know what you could also call it the Ron Wilson rule, because they did that.

The Minnesota nurse stars did that with him as well. It was Ray Roetzelian and, and, uh, and Ron Wilson as well. So that's, that's the rule. And that's why we have it. Another voicemail, this one from Mike. Hey, guys. Mike at Fort McMurray here. Just wanted to know, when a trade is made,

is it possible that the team trading the player can retain all of the salary slash salary cap? So, for example, if Fleurry is getting traded to Toronto, can the Blackhawks keep all of his salary cap hit? Just wanted to know. Never seen it before, so just thought I'd throw it out there. And to close, as always, great job, Amel. Great job, Jeff.

Have a good day, boys. Later. Yes. No, the answer is no. You can only do 50 max 50 max is the max uh mike and fort mcmurray thank you so much for that one okay let's get in uh bill in chicago i'm seeing the news about ev gascon becoming the third woman to appear in a chl game this weekend uh this was last week i know that men playing in the CHL, of course, lose NCAA eligibility when they register a game played,

but is it the same for Ev? And will the new name, image, and likeness guidelines loosen that policy at all for men and women looking to play collegiate hockey? This is an interesting one. So I looked into this on Saturday. This is for you, yes. I looked into this on Saturday. This is for you, yes. I looked into this on Saturday, and here is the reasoning.

So yes, she can still play NCAA hockey. She hasn't lost her eligibility. Now, this goes back to, in the NCAA guidelines, rule 12.2.3, underlying competition. And it says, in sports other than men's ice hockey and skiing, I don't know why skiing, but someone from NCAA is going to hear this and say, this is why skiing. In sports other than men's ice hockey and skiing, before initial full-time collegiate enrollment, an individual may compete on a professional team provided the individual does not receive more than actual

and necessary expenses to participate on the team. So what this rule covers off is competition. So for Ev's situation, she is allowed because that's only for men's hockey, not women's hockey. But in an interesting wrinkle here, because Ev played in the QMJHL on Saturday, she does lose her eligibility to play on the men's side. Like she's committed to Minnesota Duluth. So she can still go and play because there's no rule about women playing CHL hockey and then not being eligible. They can go and do it. It's only the men.

But if Minnesota Duluth on the men's side, if they have goaltending issues, injuries, sickness, whatever, and they call her sideways to the men's team, she can't go and play because she's already played in the CHL or the QMJHL. She's played junior hockey, which NCAA considers a pro loop. Now, there's an interesting situation this year, Elliot, at Princeton, because the goaltenders there came down with COVID. So they inquired about reaching sideways for a women's goalie from the women's team. And it didn't go anywhere because the goalie in question got COVID as well. We almost got to that point where, you know, hey, someone from the Princeton women's team was going over. But for the purposes of this question, Ev Gascon could only play with the women's team at Minnesota Duluth. She couldn't go sideways to play on the men's team because I guess for the purposes of this rule, she would be treated as if she was a man playing in the QMJHL, therefore would be ineligible to play on the men's side, but could still play on the women's side.

I would have had no idea of that. I'll ask you the same question you asked about Dodonov. Did that make sense? Did I explain myself? Yes. That's very interesting. I never would have guessed that. I automatically assumed when I saw her play

that she couldn't play in the NCAA. Because if you so much as play one period of one exhibition game as a male, you're done. I never would have known that. Men's hockey does not allow XCHL players. Women's hockey, Elliot, has no such rule. That is right from the NCAA bylaws. She just can't go and play with the men,

but she's free to go play Minnesota Duluth. That is excellent question, Bill in Chicago. Okay, I want to make sure we get this in. This is from Andy. Can we get some stick taps for Saskatoon Blades goaltender, Nolan Meyer? He's closing in on the all-time wins record in the WHL, three shy of the record.

Undrafteded but we all love him in saskatoon now andy elliot and i could try to blather on about nolan but why not go to a bigger authority than us on this issue and that is colin priestner the general manager of the saskatoon blaze yes andy we reached out to Colin for you. Take it away, Priestner. Well, the first thing that comes to mind with Nolan Meyer to me is what an incredible kid he is. He's the kind of goalie who could easily be captain of the Blades or any other team. He's the most professional player and he's been that way since he's been 16. And he's just an absolute pleasure to have around the rink and guys gravitate to him and and you

know that's rare for a goalie where you're the leader and one of the leaders of your team and it's something that's kind of separated him on the personal level since he got here five years ago but you know when we drafted him we drafted him 25th overall which at the time and still is the highest we've ever drafted a goalie in our history and and you know our first round pick that year was Kirby Dock so they were kind of that one-two punch that you kind of dream about as a GM we've ever drafted a goalie in our history. And, and, you know, our first round pick that year was Kirby Doc. So they were kind of that one, two punch that you kind of dream about as a GM in the years after the draft and, you know, have both just taken their own paths to being great. And, and, you know, in terms of his style of play, he's, you know,

he's as good technically as any goalie in the country. He's, he's incredibly fast. He's focused. He's athletic, you know, unfortunately being five 11 at the start of his career, now he's six feet tall. You know, that's really hurt him in terms of his draft stock with NHL teams. A lot of teams have told us they won't even look at a goalie that's under six foot two. But, you know, there's always exceptions. And there's a couple in the NHL. And, you know, to me, he's one of those guys that should be that exception.

Like when Sean McVay talked about Aaron Donald after the Super Bowl, he used the term competitive greatness. And he said how that competitively great players are the ones that, you know, despite what they've done the entire game leading up to that big moment, like when you need them the most, your biggest players perform at the highest levels. And to me, I thought instantly of Nolan with that. Like, I can't tell you how many times we've been up a goal with 30 seconds left or you know the other team's got the net pulled and you just know Nolan's going to make an unbelievable save at the buzzer with 10 seconds left and we call it Nolan being Nolan around here we even had t-shirts made a few years ago that said Nolan being Nolan because he just does that

kind of stuff when it matters the most and when when the game's on the line, he's just an incredibly great athlete. And mentally, he's just exceptionally tough when it comes to those moments. So, you know, he's two wins from the all-time record now in the Western Hockey League for wins and three wins from having the record, two from tying and three from winning it. So if not for COVID,

I think he'd already have the record by 30 or 40 wins. And it would be something that I don't know if anyone could catch, but I really hope, you know, it happens for him at home here in the next week or two, because certainly I think it's going to be one of the most special moments in Blades history and nobody deserves it more than Nolan. And hopefully it gets him the attention around the hockey world and the pro ranks that I think he really deserves. Now that is going to the authority.

Colin, thanks for stopping by, pal. Okay. From Brandon in Williams Lake, BC. Wrap up with this one. Hey guys, just wondering how the waiver process works. Does each team have a set amount of waiver questions? Hey man, people are more as it's harder and harder to make trades. People are more curious about waivers than ever before.

Yes. Does each team have a set amount of time to make a decision like the draft? Does each team just email the league their decision and then it's sorted in order of standings? With the time limit thing and them having 24 hours to clear, would a team in the middle of the standings have to wake up at 4 a.m. or something like that

for their decision? Can you please shed some light on how the waiver process happens? I like the way people think. I really do. I think that's really interesting. No, basically what happens is for the first month of the season,

it's based on last year's standings and then points percentage takes over. And whether you're ranked one or you're ranked 32, you can make a claim and then it gets processed by the lowest ranked team that made the claim. Mm-hmm. So Sateri, for example, four or five, since

Arizona was the lowest ranked team that made a claim, they got them. They get them. They get them. Perfect. Thanks so much for the emails. Thanks for the phone calls. We'll take you out with this.

A folk artist who calls Prince Edward County home. Elliot, have you ever been to Prince Edward County? Beautiful. It's absolutely gorgeous. David James Allen released his third solo record last year, touching on several genres from blues to country. The Architect was a 10-track recording telling stories of politics, love, and the journey he took to take control of his life. With his latest single from Little Known Records, here's David James Allen with Where There's Smoke, There's Fire on 32 Thoughts, the podcast,

post-trade deadline edition. Hope you enjoyed it as much as you enjoy this song. There's fire Where there's smoke There's fire I'm burning for you I need your love We sit together Like a hand in a glove The smoke is rising high, I know it's three o'clock alone It takes the waters of your love to keep me calm

My feelings for you Nobody knows Baby to me You're like a waterhole Where there's smoke There's fire Where there's smoke There's fire