32 Thoughts: The Podcast - The Good and Bad of Draft Weekend

Episode Date: July 25, 2021

It was almost a perfect week for the NHL. Jeff and Elliotte kick off the podcast (00:00) discussing how the first round of the draft ended, how surprised they were by Montreal picking Logan Mailloux, if this can be avoided in the future, and how Chicago decided to make their first-round selection. They also chat […]

Elliot, Friday was a wild day, full of trade speculation, rumors, innuendo, actual trades, draft picks, excitement. But by the end of the night, that car drove into the ditch. That's where I want to start the podcast today. From Montreal at 31 to Chicago at 32. Logan Mayu goes 31st to the Montreal Canadiens. And then we had Chicago make their picks the way that they did. How was this received around the league? Very poorly. I know I'm not the only person who,

because I heard from several people who, when they left, you know whether it was their team office or their team zoom call or their television studio for example like myself or wherever they were or wherever you were listening to this watching the game people really felt sick to their stomachs about the way the first round ended. And the shame about it is, is it put a stain on what was really a good week for the sport. The Seattle expansion draft, there were a lot of really interesting moves and rumors around the league.

Fans love that stuff. There was a lot of positive social engagement about things that were going down and then that and the thing about logan mayhew is and i've thought about a lot about this there's two ways this all could have been avoided number one the canad Canadians not to take him there at the end of the first round. And number two is, as we all know now, a few days before the draft, it was three days before the draft, he said that he did not want to be selected. Now, the NHL doesn't have a rule like that. The NHL simply says you can take yourself out, but that doesn't mean a team can't draft you. And there's a way to change that if the league and the players association

wanted. If ever there's another player in his situation, and I hope there isn't, player in his situation, and I hope there isn't, if ever a player wants to take themselves out, let them. The NBA has a mechanism where if you have collegiate eligibility remaining, and Mayu would fall under something like that for the NHL because he still has junior eligibility, but the NBA has a situation where and their draft is next Thursday on the 29th you have up till 10 days before the draft to withdraw and this year on July 19th 88 players withdrew from the draft most of them it's because they don't like where they're going to be picked if they're going to be picked at. But they can take their names out and they're not drafted. Now, okay, you may say, well, that was within 10 days.

It's not the same. Well, now I bring you the evidence of the Major League Baseball draft. Major League Baseball, their draft this year was July 11th to 13th over the baseball all-star break it is pure chaos when it comes to players withdrawing just one day before a pitcher named Josh Hartle who was projected to be a low first or high second round pick he opted out And in the days before, and I think it's two or three days, there were a couple of really highly regarded prospects from California, Nick McLean and Cody Schreier, they opted out. And all three of these players, like Baseball America is the big

prospect's bible for baseball. It has a list of the top 500 players. All three of those players were on it and they were out about 48 hours before the draft, thereabouts. So it can be done. You can do this. And I just know, because I felt it, I don't like performative stuff and other people felt it. I don't like performative stuff. I really don it. I don't like performative stuff. I really don't. I don't like things that happen that are phony to make people look good. And when the May you pick was followed up by that scene in Chicago where the eight women were brought to help make the pick, it gave me a sick feeling. And look, those are all strong

women that were involved in the Chicago pick. I don't want to make fun of them in any way, shape or form. Jeff, it was cringeworthy. It was so bad. It was so bad. And it hurts the sport. It hurts in a bad week. It hurts in a good week, but it's particularly disappointing in a week like this one where so many good and interesting things happened. And I know I'm not the only one inside the sport. Some people inside the sport don't have the ability to put their voice to it, but I wanted to to open this podcast because I think that whole thing should have been prevented. Whether it was the Canadians not making the pick

or Mayu being allowed to opt out, if he wants to make the decision, take him out and create a mechanism for that and then leading into that with the blackhawks it was awful and i'm just saying that i hope between the league and the players association they learn from the lesson of how this week unfolded and how bad those 10 minutes looked on friday night and say we're gonna get together and we're gonna make sure this is not going to happen again i just thought it was awful do you think that there's enough disgust around the nhl for that to happen from team to team.

Like I'll tell you, Elliot, I mentioned this to a number of people as well. I thought that Logan Mayhew would get drafted, but it would be later. It would be later when there's a table full of scouts and a general manager pouring over a passion pick from some scout from some region when Logan Mayhew is sitting there and someone at the table saying, if we put together a plan, maybe we can make this work.

I know that's a horribly cynical and disgusting way to look at this, disgusting way to look at this but i don't think that i was in the minority on on this feeling given how callous some teams and their scouting departments and their managers can be when you're competing for wins i thought it would happen late i thought it would be a saturday pick and a saturday story the other thing about this jeff is is that here's Trevor Timmons. He runs the draft for the Canadians, asked after the second day about the decision to draft Mayhew. In his statement, he says that he thought

that he did not earn the right to be drafted. Why? I mean, based on that, if the player thinks that, why do you think the opposite? That's a long pause. What do you mean? What do I think the opposite? Can you expand on that a little bit?

Well, it's just that if he, I mean, he thought. And I'm thinking two things as I listen and watch this clip. Number one, Timmons is extremely concerned. He's terrified about saying the wrong thing. He knows that every word he said here is going to be picked apart. So he's afraid to trip or even unintentionally say the wrong thing because if he does it's a disaster for them and him personally when you have a situation like this everybody who could possibly be asked a question about it has to have a sensible answer. So he's asked, why did you think differently from the statement? You would think that in the organization, they would be prepared to answer that question.

Here's the research we've done. Here's what we're going to do. Here's how we're going to do here's how we're going to make sure Mayu has learned his lesson and here's how we're going to show empathy for the victim and that probably should be number one on the list not the last thing I list but I'm just going off the top of my head you can't be clumsy you have to be able to clearly say this is our plan this is how we're going to make sure it's right and this is how we're going to take care of this to make sure it never happens again you can't do this poorly and it was done very clumsily and poorly. The fact that it went, that it happened in the first round to me was stunning, was shocking. Like you, I was, and many people, I was pretty disgusted at the whole thing. Do you think that there's enough of that sentiment out there for there to be some type of movement towards creating a mechanism so

it doesn't happen again i don't know if there is or isn't but it should they're better the thing about hockey is sometimes i mean we've seen this before the story is 48 hours or 72 hours old and then it's forgotten and nothing happens because of it is what I should say. I hope so, Jeff. I think this one is different. I just saw the look on the commissioner's face. Oh yeah. I hope so.

I hope so too. Welcome to 31 Thoughts Podcast presented by the GMC Sierra AT4. Jeff Merrick alongside Elliot Friedman once again. And in a weekend that's supposed to be about the kids, damn it, Elliot. It's supposed to be about the draft picks. This was a weekend that was dominated by the trades. And not just a couple of little tweaks and massaging of the rosters. These were blockbusters.

These were bombs. Friday, all the speculation was about Columbus and Chicago. And they're getting close. And this is more than, than playing footsies. Uh, it's Seth Jones. It's a first and a sixth for Adam Boakvist,

a first 12th overall coal cylinder, a second and a first and either 22 or 23. Your thoughts, we'll get to the specifics of both sides, but just your thoughts on how it got to this point or how it got to that point on Friday. Well, first of all, I would like to say that overall, in the last few years, there's generally been a situation, Jeff, where you thought you could get away from some of your problems because the cap kept on going up.

And maybe it wasn't always at a rate that people wanted, but the cap kept on going up. Now the cap is flat and it's basically going to be flat for at least three more years, maybe a million dollars a year, but generally it's going to be flat for three more years, maybe a million dollars a year, but generally it's going to be flat for three more years, most people predict. So I think what that's done is it's told people, you have to be bold. There's no space coming. So we've seen Carey Price left unprotected. We've seen Bill Guerin buy out Ryan Suter and Zach Parise. And now we've seen some of these moves. Whether you agree or disagree, people like Yarmulke Kalinin and Chuck Fletcher,

they acted big. They put their guts on the line and they said, I'm going all out because I have to make changes. And then there's the guys who were starting over, Kevin Adams, Bill Armstrong. They put themselves out there and said, I have to change course and I have to find a way to change course. and so I'm beginning to wonder if one thing the flat cap era is going to do, it's going to force general managers way out of their comfort zones and say, if we truly want to make meaningful change in our organization, we're going to have to go out and do some things that when the cap was going up,

we probably wouldn't have felt we needed to do. Hey, do you know, before we get more to the minutiae of the Seth Jones deal, and I know they already rejected it out of hand once, and this is before the bubble when the PA and the NHL massaged the CBA. I know they already shot down the idea of amnesty buyouts, but to your point about if teams are going to get better,

they have to be bold and make big moves and we saw the buyouts in minnesota those aren't amnesty those count against the cap years three and four are going to be punishing for the minnesota wild has there been anyone or any whispers or anything to do with bringing back an amnesty buyout period, the likes of which we see usually after new CBAs are done? No, I remember, Jeff, when this one was being worked on before the bubble, people said, oh, there's going to be a buyout. And I remember asking around,

and I was told by those who would know that the owners were dead set against it. No money outside of the system. And they were right. It never was close. I think there were people who assumed it was going to happen. I think I mentioned it once. Yeah.

And someone reached out to me and said, don't go there. It's not happening. And I, it was never close. The owners made it very clear. No money outside of the system. All right. Money inside the system, eight years, $76 million. We'll get to the Jones contract here in a second, but what do you make of the trade and what Columbus was able to get in exchange for Seth Jones? Jones, I believe, had given three teams that he would consider signing long-term with.

One of them was Chicago, and the others were Dallas and Colorado. And we knew that Colorado wasn't going to be able to do it. The avalanche had made it known that they would be willing to consider one year of Jones. They would be willing to do it for the last year of his current deal, but they couldn't do it long-term. They had too many things going on. So they were never really an option. Dallas, I think, considered it, but there were a couple of things there.

For them to make the deal, they probably would have had to subtract an NHL player off their roster. I don't know how crazy they were about that. And I'm not sure that Columbus was even crazy about taking any players. So that's number one. Number two, I don't think Dallas, the extension is eight times 9.5. I don't think Dallas was willing to do that. I don't think they were willing to go higher than Haskinen. Haskinen signed eight times 8.45. I'm not convinced they were willing to go higher than him on Jones. So I know Dallas's name was out there in rumors.

A couple people told me, you know, after the deal came down, they were never close. Like it was never at a point where anybody really thought he was going to Dallas so Chicago initially as we talked about a couple weeks ago the first ask was Doc and or Debrinkat possibly both and you know obviously that wasn't going to happen and then you know I think Columbus realized that you know Chicago was really motivated to do it. Chicago was really the big extension.

So then it was grind time. It was, you know, they had to work with them to get things done. And I have to tell you, they did better than I thought they were going to do. I think they liked Kurashev because he's center winger and they're always looking for centers but I think Chicago said they really didn't want to do him and Columbus fought for Boquist and they got him and considering all the extra picks they got I have to tell you I thought they did unbelievably well the Blue Jackets much better than I thought they were going to do I could have seen Kurashev part of that deal I could have seen someone like Lucas Reichel trade unbelievably well, the Blue Jackets. Much better than I thought they were going to do.

I could have seen Khrushchev part of that deal. I could have seen someone like Lucas Reichel. I heard Chicago didn't want to move Khrushchev. What about Lucas Reichel? Did that name come up at all? It came up. I heard the name Khrushchev and some people said to me, he's on the no-fly list. So, I mean, I'm assuming that they didn't want to trade Reichel, but I never specifically heard it one way or the other. You know, it's interesting that you mentioned Dallas because this sort of coincides with the name John Klingberg getting out there a little bit. And you wonder if that would have, and this is sort of all under the light of Dallas with their offer, which I believe was four times four for Jamie Oleksiak. He ends up going to Seattle for more money and longer term than the

four years. So to me, that sort of made a little bit of sense. Like, okay, if you're going to put Klingberg out there, you're going to lose Oleksiak. Seth Jones slides into that spot. But to your point, the 9.5 wasn't going to happen in Dallas. The question that I have, and I think that many people have about Seth Jones in Chicago is, what does this mean for the rebuild? Now, normally I look at rebuilds and I say, the goal of a rebuild is to try to get good players. And Seth Jones, despite how the analytics community may feel about him right now, being on the decline in his career, is a good player. This is why I really didn't mind you know the rangers we're starting to rebuild and we're getting our tammy panarin i understood that does this feel the same as the rangers going

through a rebuild and grabbing panarin the idea that chicago is going through a rebuild here a lot of it's going to be around dock and the Debrinket, and they grab 26-year-old Seth Jones. I think what it says to me is they're trying to speed it up, and I think they're going to look and goal. The Marc-Andre Fleury thing, I don't think it's anywhere right now, but I think they were interested, and there's something interesting going on there in Vegas. I think there was someone who was interested in lennar and it might have fallen apart i'm not exactly sure what

happened there new jersey but i think so but i don't know it okay you know i think so but i don't know it there was something it didn't happen new jersey seems to be the one that makes the most sense, but I can't say it with 100% certainty. I think Chicago is going to be looking for a goalie. I just think they're going to try to accelerate this a bit. So then, Elliot, from the Columbus point of view, the rebuild is on? Oh, is it ever? First of all, I thought Jake Beam was a really good gamble.

Big time. The one thing i like about the blue jackets is if they say they're doing something they don't kind of dip their toe in the water eh it's a nine foot cannonball from the top of a cliff or something like that like all the water goes flying in every direction they're decisive and um john davidson now he's the voice and he's the face of it and yarmulke kalanin can just work and say okay now i'm gonna do it and you think about all the all the guys like it's amazing when you think about it nick felino's gone dubois is gone tortorella's gone seth jones is gone cam atkinson is gone. Seth Jones is gone.

Cam Atkinson is gone. And Atkinson was supposedly the happy face of the franchise, right? Yeah. You know, this week he's doing promotions about what a great place it is. And all of a sudden, he's gone. And I basically think that Columbus just said, if we're going to rip the Band-Aid, we're going to rip the Band-Aid, we're going to rip the Band-Aid. You know, the one guy who's kind of still there

who's a big piece is Wierenski. I think they've been asked about him, and, you know, we'll see if that goes anywhere or that just stays. You know, all those names you just mentioned, and there are a few others you can throw in, whether it's Wierenski, whether it's Panera, and see how far back you want to go.

But those were decisions that were made for them. These are decisions they made. All the decisions they made. You put those guys on a team. Are they better than Seattle? It's a really good team. That's a good team that essentially Columbus has just handed away. How do you see the Voracek-Atkinson deal?

Well, we knew that Voracek, they were talking about a change of scenery, right? You know, I got to tell you, I was surprised. I was really surprised from Columbus's point of view just because I thought that, like I said, Cam Atkinson was kind of like the happy face of the franchise. He was Mr. Columbus. He signed there once and really at the time took a below market deal to stay there.

He could have done better on the open market, but he really liked it there. And he's one of those guys that's always, he plays hard and he's not easy to play against, but he's, he looks like Captain Happy all the time, right? So when word about that started to reach on on saturday afternoon i was really really shocked i think basically that's what it was columbus just said if we're gonna do it we're committing to it and i think a lot of that is philly too i think in in philly's case they really hated their mix last year they felt chemistry wise it absolutely did not work out and to me the most interesting thing about what philly said was there were some players who were

unhappy with the coaching staff and chuck fletcher has backed his coaching staff and said nope it's the player mix we're going to change and if if you heard his interview on NHL Network on Saturday, and he talked about Carter Hart, he just said, look, we were terrible defensively. We didn't make this job any easier on him because we were so bad defensively. Well, that's on the coaches and the players to fix. Well, that's on the coaches and the players to fix. But in terms of the chemistry mix, you know, Ristolainen has a great reputation for caring.

Atkinson has a great reputation for caring. He's gone after guys who have good reputations as demanding but caring teammates. When I look at this deal, I look at it as Philly saying, this is the kind of player we want to target, and Voracek, we just feel it's time. And to me, that's how I think this one kind of went down. So let's get to Philly then. Cam Atkinson's new team and you mentioned ristelainen so

he goes to philadelphia in exchange for robert hag uh first round draft pick 14th overall isaac rosen and a second round pick this is all by the way in concert with chuck fletcher adding ryan ellis and losing shane goss. Jeff, I forgot to mention Ellis. He's another guy who's got a reputation as being a great teammate, great team guy. So we talked at the end of the season with the Philadelphia Flyers, and the hue and cry was Chuck Fletcher is going to do something with the blue line, and here we are.

Chuck Fletcher has done something with the blue line. Not all of it popular. You know, depending on which trade he's made, he's either a genius or an idiot. He's been lauded and torn apart, you know, seemingly from one Twitter news cycle to the next. Are they a better team now? Listen, I don't think Chuck Fletcher's done,

but I'll ask the question anyhow. Are they a better team right now than they were at the end of the season? Well, first of all, I want to see who's playing goal with heart. Number two, I want to see how they determine they're going to play much more stoutly defensively. But number three, I think if you look at the numbers,

you could make an argument. Like Ristolainen, we can debate him until labor day right till nfl kickoff that is one of the ongoing twitter wars tom brady will be throwing his first touchdown pass of the next season and the and the final out of the world series will be caught and we'll still be arguing this but it's clear to me what they're saying is that they feel that last year's group didn't play for each other. And that's the first problem they're going to solve. It's almost like they feel you fix the chemistry.

You give yourself a better chance of fixing the on ice product. Is he done? No, no, he's got it. He's got to find a goalie. After that, is he done? I don't think he is. Nothing would surprise me anymore. I think this is deep cut Chuck Fletcher.

Oh, absolutely. We talked about this at the end of the year too. Like deep, deep, deep cut. Like no sacred cows here. Well, he's already done the deep cuts, right? He's already made them. I could see more. I could see more, but we'll see okay so ristelainen goes then from the buffalo sabers to the philadelphia flyers elliott so let's

backtrack now and talk about the buffalo sabers and yes we're going to get to the jack eichel conversation here in a second so yeah ristelainen to the Jack Eichel conversation here in a second. So Ristolainen gone. Jack Eichel will get there in a second. And Sam Reinhardt gone as well. He goes to the Florida Panthers in exchange for net mining prospect Devin Levi and a first round pick in 2022. That is a protected pick we should mention as well. Top 10 protected.

If it's a top 10 it pushes a 2023 reinhardt still without contract what do you make of the deal and how quickly can they do a deal with sam reinhardt i thought kevin adams did pretty well same i know there's some sabers fans who felt that they should have gotten more for reinhardt what I heard there is that Adams valued the first round pick more than the prospect and and that's not to take a shot at Levi they need goalies there they do they're like Detroit like no goalies we need goalies send us all the goalies and Levi's a good bet and I want him to do well I mean anybody who plays as injured as he did and takes Canada to all the way to the gold medal game, I'm a fan, but I heard the prospect was not as important to Buffalo as the first round pick wise. They were going to try to get the best first round pick they could.

And I'm guessing that's what it was. I liked the Ristolainen trade. I thought that was a really good deal for him. I guarantee to you that there were people who didn't think they were going to do that well for Ristolainen. So I think Adams did as well as he could have done. Look, he's going for picks and prospects. He got picks and prospects. He checked a couple off his list. You know, the Eichel thing on Saturday night after the draft, he said, you know,

if Eichel's back next year, we're fine with that. I can't imagine Eichel's fine with that. Somewhere wherever he is, his eyes probably rolled back into his head. But, you know, Montreal and Eichel, I get a lot of mixed signals. I get people who say that they're in,

and I get people who say that Montreal has determined they don't want to go there. At the very least, they've talked to Buffalo about it. But I just don't know where that's going to go. Like I said, I get a lot of mixed signals. You know, the other team I think has been around this from time to time has been Calgary. And I think like everyone else, they go in, they go out.

It depends on do they think the price or what's been previously asked of them will change. It's a really difficult thing to get your finger on because I do think the teams go in and out. They're like, we can't do it. Let's keep trying. We can't do it. Let's try again. And that's why I think it's so hard to read. Florida, they were interested in Reinhardt and they were interested in Einhardt and they were interested in Eichel. And I think they tried Eichel. I don't think it ever got close and they were happy to get Reinhardt, very happy to get him. Adams says there's no deadline. The one thing is, is that

if we get into free agency, do the other teams say, well, you know what? There is a deadline because we have to know if we're getting him or we're going somewhere else. So that's the next kind of thing I wonder about. You know, Minnesota, I've heard they've felt that the price is just too high. And by the way, I do think Anaheim asked Buffalo if they were at all interested in moving down to three. I don't think that conversation really went anywhere but they asked them you know we said the Rangers were the stealth

team on it and in someone called me and he said you know you're right about that but you're probably about a week or two late he said that from what he understood the Rangers and the Sabres were just not close on the package. The Sabres wanted the likes of Schneider or Lundqvist, and the Rangers didn't want to go there. They wanted some of their top young players who were already on the roster, and the Rangers didn't want to go there.

Basically, if you were doing a Venn diagram of what the Rangers were offering and the Sabres wanted, there was no intersect in the middle it was like two different circles so i understand you know someone said to me that the buffalo guys do a bit of a slow burn when they hear us say their ask is too high and you know i don't know why that's necessary just in the sense that you know i don't have a problem if your ask is too high you're waiting to see if someone's gonna pay it and you know i will say this jeff you know we talked about seth jones a couple guys said to me if you're buffalo and you see that return you know are you sitting there and saying that our ash should be high totally so basically like i said on friday

night people still think it's high but i i think I don't know how often it is, but there are times where teams take a run at it. And I think on Friday, I don't know how much Florida did, but I think they tried. And I certainly think Montreal tried. Any whispers about Seattle trying? I haven't heard that just because they they have the cap space obviously two they have the need for a first line center do they have all the pieces that buffalo sabers would want they have picks right now they got tons of picks and now they have some prospects and now they have prospects i don't know they have prospects. I don't know.

That one to me could make a lot of sense. Here's one that's been, geez, been talking about for so long. And you've been all over it. Oliver Ekman Larson. Along with Conor Garland goes to the Vancouver Canucks, Louis Erickson, Jay Beagle, Antoine Roussel. And the ninth overall pick, Dylan Gunter from the Edmonton Oil Kings, goes the other way, the Arizona Coyotes.

OEL, finally, a member of the Vancouver Canucks. But here's my question. One day, will we call this the Oliver Ekman-Larsen deal or the Conor Garland deal? Well, I think if you're a Vancouver Canuck fan or team employee, you're hoping you're calling it the Oliver Ekman-Larsen deal. What do you think? I thought it was really interesting to listen to OEL talk.

When the Coyotes signed him to his extension, the franchise's credibility was on the line. They had to do it. the franchise's credibility was on the line. They had to do it. And the management there at the time had the backing of ownership to do it. The credibility of the franchise was at stake. And then OEL started to decline as a player. Now, I think he and Rick Tockett butted heads. I think Tockett expected more from his captain and leader. And I think OEL

chafed underneath that and his confidence suffered a bit. And I think if everybody could do it over again, they would go back a year ago and see if they could have found a way to get it done. He gave them Vancouver and Boston. It never happened. And this year was even tougher on everybody. You know, everybody knew at the end of this year that Talkett was leaving Arizona. It became clear at a certain point during the season. But as we talked about, Jeff, on a previous podcast,

even though Talkett was leaving, the exit meeting between OEL and the Coyotes was really short. It was basically it's time and OEL saying, yeah, I agree. It's time. And, you know, he talked in the Zoom call with the Canucks about how he knows he hasn't been the same player. I use this line a lot. I only judge myself the way I judge other people I didn't realize it at the time when I look at some of my job changes from fan to score from score to hockey night in Canada from CBC to Rogers sometimes you don't realize in your life how much you need change and how much it forces you to adapt and forces you out of your comfort zone and demands that you be

better. And that's going to be the interesting thing here is I think he will be rejuvenated. I think Garland's going to be huge there. The only thing that concerns me about Garland is injury. You know, I had one general manager who likes Garland as a player who told me he thought about it, but he's just worried when you're that, you didn't say he used the word reckless, but when you're that unafraid of contact and you're built the way he is, you just worry, is he going to get hurt?

He used the example of Brad Marchand as a guy who he creates contact on his terms do you know how many general managers and coaches out there would love to have that problem with players on their team i know i know i remember i remember one guy that i'll tell you a quick story i remember being at the philadelphia draft the aaron eckad draft, and I was having a conversation with someone on the floor about Sam Bennett, who ended up going from the Kingston Frontenac to the Calgary Flames. And I was trying to make some goofy point about how, you know, you have to wonder, can he play that same way in the NHL?

You know, goes to the net really hard, really aggressive. You know, our injury is already concerned. He stopped me. I'll never forget this. And he said, do you realize how many coaches wish they had that problem with more of their players? Give your head a shake. There's a lot worse things than, oh, he plays too tough.

So whenever I hear the complaints about, oh, injuries based on how they play, I always remember that conversation on the floor in Philadelphia with Sam Bennett. I think, though, Garland will be a big hit in Vancouver. For me, the whole deal is Ekman-Larsen. And that whole Vancouver trade, that is about if we don't win next year, heads are rolling. Heads are rolling. Big time because the contracts they gave up

are all expiring. Yep. This is all about this year we need to win or there's going to be problems here in vancouver arizona by the way we all knew what they were wanted to do i give them credit for being creative and what they've done now next year there's going to be you know them and buffalo are going to be chasing that shane wright pick yeah short-term pain for long-term gain and if you're bad long enough you can throw a connor bedard into that mix thank you very much as well i think lost in the conversation too and i know i keep bringing this back to connor garland vancouver just added a top

six forward yep he's going to be great there. What was the difference this time around, you think, for Oliver Ekman-Larsen and Vancouver? I mean, this isn't the first time these two sides have danced. First of all, Vancouver knows they have a D problem. Edler coming to the end. Hamannik, not long-term. He's still playing, but it's short-term deals. Schmidt doesn't want to be there.

All of a sudden, you've got three holes on defense. Yep. And Arizona is saying, we're not doing this deal unless we're talking OEL. That's why, to me, it's the most fascinating part of the deal because Vancouver has a need for it. Take out the salary for a sec, I know,'s why, to me, it's the most fascinating part of the deal because Vancouver has a need for him. Take out the salary for a sec, I know, which is hard to do, but Vancouver has a need for the player.

They need him. Yeah. Six years, 8.25 on the cap. You know, Sam Cosentino, he was really good on the draft always talking about how no but there was one specific point he made about how teams draft guys but it's not only about drafting it's developing them sometimes i think hockey is one of the toughest sports to make people better at because you know baseball you can go to the ballpark you can work on your your fielding and you and work on your hitting and everything you need to work on under the

auspices of the team on your field of play football all these teams have private practice facilities and things like that where you can do what you need to do to work on your game hockey you have a limited amount of time on the ice surface you have to find other ways to hone your skills so when i see a lot of players who struggle i often wonder how are we making them better how are they committing to making them better and that's one of the things i wonder about with a guy like ekman larson you can say okay we need to make him better how are you committing to doing that and there's also the feeling elliot that at a certain age you can't get better i think that is bs generally in life now because we have a longer understanding of our our primes are longer in athletics.

Now it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be at the top of the top of the top, but you can still be very good. Are you committed to it with your body? Do you eat the right things? Do you work out? You know, LeBron James, I was listening to him on a podcast and the first thing that his trainer asked him every morning is how much sleep did you get last night a question i would fail almost all of the time like i really believe if you take care

of yourself properly and as a reporter i'm the antithesis of that i don't need like i i can report forever hopefully so i don't need to take care of my body. But I believe you can extend your ability as a player. Extend not necessarily your best, but you can extend at a very high level for a longer time if you are committed to doing the right things, eating, sleeping, working out, taking care of your body. But the thing I often wonder about, Jeff, is in hockey, because of the nature of the rink and how much time you have access to the rink, do we really do the best job of tinkering with our players? And when I look at Ekman Larson, that's what I wonder about. West Coast, travel schedule, harder to practice.

How do you maximize getting back to his game? I think a clear start, a fresh start will really help him, but how do you maximize the technical stuff? That's what Vancouver has to have a plan. Well, someone, and we'll stick with the Western Conference on this one and stick with the theme of defensemen, who's honed a lot of those skills at the tender age of 22 is Kael McCarr. Yep.

And he's got a real sweet deal, six years, $54 million. Yes, folks, that is an AAV of $9 million for Kael McCarr. Thoughts on this deal, Elliot? We knew it would be a whopper. We knew it would be huge. People say, well, how come Seth Jones got $ 86 million and Cale McCarr only got 54. What a stupid contract. What a stupid comparison. It's not apples to apples. Seth Jones' contract was all UFA years and Cale McCarr's contract was one UFA year. I thought it was two, but I was reminded by his agent, Brian Bartlett,

that his first year of 10 playoff games did not qualify towards unrestricted free agency because he is going to win one, if not multiple Norris trophies. And he is a unique player. I think what Colorado wanted to do and Makar worked with them on it with the, with Bartlett, the agent is that they wanted him to come in around Rantanen's number 925. That's what they wanted him to come in around Rantanen's number, 925. That's what they wanted. I think they wanted to be as close to 925 as they could be. So they settled on six years. I think if it had been eight years, it would have been 10 something. And someone even suggested to me, I don't know this.

Like I'm doing the old Doug McLean. I'll tell you what I heard, not what I know. Like if it had been a three-year deal, there was a chance it could have been around $8 million. I used to love that line. I'm not saying it's the truth. I'm just telling you what I heard. Yeah.

The fact that it's six times nine, it tells me it could have been three times eight potentially. It's possible. With this player, you make it work. And nobody's going to complain about this contract. Nobody. So then, because all the questions about the Colorado Avalanche inevitably revolve around what does this mean for Gabriel Landeskog,

let me ask you. And Philip Grubauer. What does this mean for the goalie and the left winger? The Landeskog, I think they're going to get together and Colorado's going to say, here's our line. Now, I think the smartest thing that's happened here is Landeskog has had about a week to really think about it. And when we last talked about this, he was upset and he was emotional. And hopefully, he's calmed down a little bit.

And now I think it's his time to sit there and say, okay, we can take the emotion out of a bit. He can see what happened with Makar and now they can try to figure this out. I just think Colorado's got a line and we'll figure out what that line is. Now Grubauer, it may have changed. I'm not sure that this is still the same. If you look at the big goalie UFA contract of recent years, it's Binnington. I think Grubauer, being a Vezina Trophy nominee, I wouldn't be surprised if that was in the area

of what he was looking at. So a $6 million AAV. But I'm not saying that is what he's asking, but I'm sure it's not far. If it's off, it's not far. I don't think Colorado is willing to go there. But then the question becomes, who's going to play net for you?

You know, Colorado took a gamble on Grubauer in the first place. They did too. So maybe there's another goalie they're prepared to gamble on. I don't know the answer to that. But that's where I think it was. I don't know exactly where it is all right by the way before we do anything else yeah i have two things i'd like to say shoot so i got sent a tweet from the danny all-star twitter account you know big heat daddy yeah yeah yeah of course so apparently a couple of days before i reported that chris dreger was going to get three times 3.5 in seattle the big heat daddy danny all-star

twitter account said dreger was getting three times 3.5 apparently the person who is running this account feels that I have slighted them by not crediting them. So this is the credit. So they were your source the whole time, essentially. It's not the source. I don't follow that account, but often it gets retweeted into my timeline or sent into my timeline. Yeah, I got the same. He took a lot of pictures of myself looking disheveled during the playoffs.

So there's the credit. The other thing I just want to say, Jeff, is I cannot wait until next year when on the second day of the draft, people have flights to catch. Oh yeah, how'd you enjoy working day two? I felt bad that I couldn't contribute more because nothing was really breaking.

Yeah. Those guys, Tony, Jackie, EJ, Jeff Gordon, that i couldn't contribute more because nothing was really breaking yeah those guys tony jackie ej jeff gorton sam of course brian lawton yeah dave reed man they grinded day two is the challenge man day two and listen i'm listen sammy and i'm biased and he's our guy god i can't say enough good things about Cosentino and the work that he does and what he puts into it and how much he means to our group. That guy is golden.

Fantastic. As far as I'm concerned. And I'm not in the minority. He is outstanding. And well done to everybody for the draft coverage this year. I thought it was outstanding. Dougie Hamilton any chance he's going back to the Carolina Hurricanes I just think there was a gap. From what I understand, Carolina's target area, at least at the beginning for Hamilton, was Torrey Krug, which is seven years, $45.5 million.

So it's about six and a half, right? A little over. I don't think that's going to do it. And I think the one team we're all kind of looking at here is New Jersey. Chicago is out of the picture. Philly is out of the picture. I don't think that's what Seattle wants to do. I think they had some interest. I think some other teams like Montreal and Toronto have asked around seeing if there's something creative they can do. But if Dougie Hamilton wants 8x8 or Alex

Petrangelo, which is 7x88 or whatever that is exactly, the one place I really looked at that stands out to me is New Jersey. And I think New Jersey wants to make a splash. I do. I'm watching that Luke Hughes reaction.

That's worth something to that franchise you know larry brooks had a column today in the new york post about a video they sent out extolling the virtues of new jersey you know you don't do that when you're looking to do a quiet weekend yeah when you when you update your profile on tinder or you go on to match.com and say i'm putting out a new picture you're looking for a date well listen we thought it was uh it was going to be gm's week in a lot of ways it was but it's also brothers week whether it was uh the hughes as you just mentioned the joneses the flurries the docs the macars it's like the nba it was brothers we absolutely the brothers getting together and uh father and son with shane and josh doan in arizona that was a nice touch well the thing about new jersey too and i always feel goofy

saying it's an analytically driven team because there are so many of those uh in the nhl it wouldn't surprise anybody i don't think if when think when you really think about it, A, New Jersey has cap space and B, that would be a team that would be warm to what Dougie Hamilton has to offer. Essentially, the whole thing makes sense. Like he fits the profile of like, this is central casting for the New Jersey Devils. Oh yeah, of course. That's got to be our guy. That's what we want. That's what we try to do here.. Oh yeah, of course. That's got to be our guy. That's what we want.

That's what we try to do here. That makes a lot of sense. Do you have a thought on what the Ovechkin deal might look like? This is a guess. Three times ten. Why three? I don't know. The ten I can see. Maybe four times ten.

I think it's going to be three or four times ten. I just don't know what term would be on this one. See, part of me just thinks it's going to be three or four times 10. I just don't know what term would be on this one. See, part of me just thinks it's going to be like the evergreen. Well, just sign one year after one year after one year after one year. I don't think that interested him at all. No. All right. We'll write that one down.

Tuck it away. Three times 10. Free agency week is on the horizon here. Free agent day comes Wednesday. What should we look for this week elliott's okay so just some things i'm looking at first of all ryan suiter can make his call early i think dallas is in there big i think florida really wants him i don't know how florida is going to do this all but i think florida really wants him and i still wonder about the island. Lamorello not texting me any intel,

although I did like his line about going for a long walk when he saw the schedule. Oh, the road trip? Yeah. The kickoff. I thought that was very funny. I think Dallas is in there big, Florida in there big, don't know about the Islanders.

I heard Colorado may not be able to do it, and I don't know about Boston. I heard they were around there, then I heard they weren't going to get them, but I know they like them. I just don't know about boston i'm just i heard they were around there then i heard they weren't gonna get them but i know they like them i i just don't know yandel nothing imminent on saturday but he's thinking about where he could end up boston excuse me yeah i mean it could be it makes sense you know what someone said to me they they wouldn't be surprised if someone like la makes a play for philip to know oh the other one is i think david savard montreal until i'm proven wrong on that one i'm going with david savard montreal okay writing all these things down to fact check

later on next time we do another podcast i was a bit surprised about the to know one because somebody said i'm gonna be like oh for seven We all know this right now, by the way. I was surprised about the Deneau one with LA, and you can't really ask them because it's tampering. How many Selkie centers do you want? You already got on, say, Kopitar. They also have a ton of young centers, right? Yeah.

Some people were just saying to me that Dowdy and Kopitar have made it clear they want to win. And, you know, the other thing too is you shield some of those guys with Kopitar and Deneau. But I'm just not sure how they make that all work. Again, it's what I heard. I don't know if it's true. Alec Martinez, he's got to decide if he's staying in Vegas or not.

I think he's got an offer there. And I think that there's other teams that want him. I think one of the more interesting teams going to be watching over the next four or five days is going to be Calgary. I think there's a lot of like, just, you know, we lost Giordano. How do we replace that? Where do we kind of go here? I think they had a really hard, difficult week as we talked about in the last

podcast. And I think they're having a lot of conversations about we talked about in the last podcast and i think they're having a lot of conversations about you know where they want to go which what's our direction going to be here how do we replace the spot you don't replace giordano but how do you replace the minutes he ate up the role he played listen frege great job days one and two of the nhl draft you have earned your pillow sir well done are you insinuating that this year is over Wilson, Frege, great job. Days one and two of the NHL draft. You have earned your pillow, sir. Well done.

Are you insinuating that this year is over? There's still four more days, right? This has been the longest. By the way, just to conclude the podcast, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way, has this not felt like the longest, shortest season of all time? And maybe it's because we've all been on this run going back to september

of 2019 without any type of extended break but this feels like the longest shortest season ever and this month of july elliot feels like the longest hockey month i've ever been part of same for you or no you know what's interesting about it is so so Tim McAuliffe, I was on Tim's show on Friday before the draft. Yeah. And he said to me, you're still working and all those chumps are on vacation that I work with on hockey night. And my response to that was, well, who are the chumps? The guys who are on vacation? Or me.

We're the suckers. We're the suckers we're the suckers we're still working talking about you know we should we should conclude the podcast tim won a canadian screen award sure did cassie won a canadian screen award harner ryan won a canadian screen award hometown hockey won a canadian screen award and uh john sapala yes a director that we all know, won a Canadian Screen Award. If I'm missing anyone, I'm hugely apologetic. But just congratulations to all our co-workers who won. That's fantastic.

It's always great to see great people recognized for their work. Excellent. Well done, everyone, and well deserved. Taking us out, a band from British Columbia. They've been making music since the late 2000s. Yukon Blonde just dropped their fifth full-length record last year and have announced a pair of fall concert dates in both Victoria and Vancouver.

From their latest record, Vindicator, here's Yukon Blonde with It's What You Are on 31 Thoughts The Podcast. Enjoy. It's in the way you see the world Choices you've made, that's what you are It's what you are What you are It's what you are You're in a fight, sitting in the eyes of all the people What you are

It's what you are What you are It's what you are You've been accused and there's no use in trying to fight Thank you. But it's all of a lie The path to your redemption Is what I'm saying