32 Thoughts: The Podcast - The Leafs Wanted Both Zadorov and Tanev

Episode Date: December 4, 2023

Jeff and Elliotte talk about what they expect to come out of the NHL Board of Governors meetings in Seattle, Washington. They look back at Elliotte's headlines from Saturday, including the Leafs interest in Nikita Zadorov (6:50), a potential Sean Walker trade (12:31) and a potential Marc-Édouard Vlasic move (22:20). Jeff and Elliotte dive into the Edmonton Oilers commitment to Jack Campbell (26:32) and talk about the extension for Sam Montembeault in Montreal (37:46). They wrap up the podcast by highlighting some experimental changes in the PWHL's Utica camp (1:00:17).The guys answer your questions in the Montana’s Thought Line (48:07).Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Montana's Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

maybe you could call it the Gordon Bombay Cup. Or do you just let whoever wins it name the cup? You always have to take it one step too far. Yeah, I know. That's my job in life. Okay, so all three people on this podcast are in three different places. Welcome to 32 Thoughts,

presented as always by the GMC Sierra HD, Jeff Merrickff merrick and stovill dom schrammady in vancouver elliot friedman in checks notes that's the checking notes sound seattle what pray tell are you doing in seattle elliot's nhl board of governors meeting here mond Monday and Tuesday. The executive committee meets Monday and then the full group on Monday afternoon and Tuesday. They have a meeting every December. So I'm here. Long travel day. No direct from Toronto to Seattle. First thing in the morning.

So, you know, I'm like the princess and the pea. If there's a pea p 20 mattresses below the one i'm sleeping on it's very uncomfortable so it was uh it was it was a long travel day i have to say but you know i'm always happy to be in seattle yes and you know what i found people love hearing um people in media whining about travel they love it do it some more be great really to juice the numbers start whining about your chair didn't recline you didn't like the selection

of movies how about we go there with this one at the same time I will also say by the way that there is a member of the media I'm not going to say who who is one of those loud airport phone talkers okay don't say who, who is one of those loud airport phone talkers.

Ooh. Okay. Don't, okay. Don't say who it is, but just say what is his or her name rhymes with. Not going to bite. You know, I remember years ago when I was still doing the CFL, I stayed, when we did games in Saskatchewan, travel out of Regina could be diced. There were certain ways you had to go. So there were times if we were doing a later afternoon or evening game, you couldn't get out quickly, you had to, you know, stay an extra night,

which is always fine. I'm happy to do that. So one night I went out, I was the only member of the crew who stayed. And I went out for a beer and a rough rider fan came up to me and we just started chatting and everything I said to him ended up all over the internet now this is probably about 16 or 17 years ago it would be close to 20 years ago but I've always been in fear of that ever since that if i talk too loudly on the phone in a public place it could end up all over social media i remember years ago jeff there was a big controversy over the blue jays manager jim fragosi was in the hotel bar and he was ripping his players and Jim Fregosi was in the hotel bar and he was ripping his players and there was a reporter there and you know his argument was everybody could hear you talking everybody could hear you talking so I've always been paranoid of that ever since like I've had people on the other end of the

phone saying can you stop whispering and actually tell me what you're trying to tell me and i'll say i'm in an airport i'm super paranoid about this i always know when you're around people when i call you i can always tell when there's a lot of people around because it is for you barely above a whisper and i get the feeling like you're talking out the side of your mouth okay if you're not going to tell us who it is we're not going to play the guessing game here. Just tell us what he or she was talking about. No, I'm not doing that because I'd hate if it was done to me. You had me for half a second there. I almost did it. I was like, wait a second, wasn't I just complaining about the

same thing? All right. You're in Seattle, Board of Governors. No waffling here. Is this going to be underwhelming or overwhelming? From the topics I've heard that they're going to be underwhelming or overwhelming? From the topics I've heard that they're going to be discussing, I think it's going to be underwhelming. You know, the thing is, there's certain things to talk about that probably wouldn't be on the agenda. Things like, you know, Corey Perry,

things like, you know, the Marc-Andre Fleury mask, the pride tape, things like that. I don't necessarily think those would be on the agenda for the governors to vote on or anything. But I think those are the kinds of things that we're going to be asking about. You know, one of the things that with Perry, I think a lot of people are looking at it like as long as this doesn't end up being anything that ends up in a court of law, we're willing to respect his privacy. But I think a lot of people are wondering about just terminating his contract. And, you know, someone said to me the other day after actually it was it was Sunday morning. They said to me is shouldn't he have been in the program instead of having his contract terminated? So I think those are the kinds of things that we're going to be asking about, Jeff.

And obviously, with Marc-Andre Fleury and Travis Dermott, it's again the whole situation the league is going through where, as I've talked about on this podcast, I think there are certain things they're afraid of as we are in a world at war but how can you balance that out with the things that nobody should have a problem with and I'm wondering if they have a solution to that how much talk do you think there'll be about the future of the Arizona Coyotes? I know this is an ongoing saga, but every time there's a large gathering, the question comes up. I think there will be people who ask about it.

I mean, the team looks really good. What was it you were telling me? We're going to get there. We're going to get there, Dom. We're talking about Coyotes later, for sure. We're going to get there. On the ice, they look really good. But I know this is something that always gets brought up.

You know, the one thing about Bettman is he tends to be very quiet about it in the group setting. But they have been talking about New Year, All-Star game. All of a sudden, Jeff, we're under a month from the New Year and we're two months away from the All-Star game. So we're all going to be asking. There's no question about it. Okay, so we'll look forward to your reports

over the next couple of days here. In the meantime, a couple of things rewinding to Saturday and the headlines segment, starting with the Toronto Maple Leafs trying to secure not one but two Calgary Flames defensemen, Chris Tanev and Nikita Zadorov, who, as we all know, eventually made his way to Vancouver.

A little bit more on this one. How did it fall apart? How did it fall apart? Why did it fall apart? Well, I think this. Toronto definitely tried to get both players. There's no question in my mind. And Calgary was definitely in a situation, as we talked a little bit about on Friday morning in the pod there,

where they had kind of notified teams they wanted to get at least Zdorov done. That they were, you know, they were really interested in, they were motivated to do it. Their players had indicated, I think, they wanted that particular chapter closed and Calgary wanted to move on. And Vancouver was a motivated buyer. They cleared the cap room.

And also, you know, the thing that really appealed to Calgary was that Vancouver didn't need to retain any money. So I think the Flames let it be known, hey, it's coming down. So if you really want to be involved in the Zdorov sweepstakes, you'd better let us know. And what happened was Toronto tried to get both players. And here's what it came down to.

Toronto needed Calgary to retain. Unlike Vancouver, they needed Calgary to retain. And if you look at Nikita Zdorov's salary, he's making $3.75 million this year. He's basically played a quarter of the season. let's just say it's 50 because toronto's a cap crunch so for the sake of easy math we're going to say toronto needed them to keep 50 so 3.75 million zadorov cash and we're doing this roughly to make it easy and also because I was told when I went into sports there would be no math 3.75 million 75% of that is 2.812 million and 50% of that is one little over 1.4 million so let's just say Toronto was asking Calgary to keep 1.4 million of Zdorov. Chris Tanev is another guy that Toronto likes and was after. And Chris Tanev this year is being paid four and a half million dollars.

There's no signing bonuses. So let's do the same math. Four and a half million dollars, Say math, $4.5 million, 75% of it, and then 50% of that, you're looking at almost $1.7 million. So let's just say Toronto was asking for Calgary to keep 50% of two players. That's over $3 million. That's almost $3.2 million. So Jeff, in addition to what you were going to be paying for the two rentals, you were going to have to pay Calgary, whatever the argument was that they should have to pay for Calgary to keep $3.1 million. And that's where I heard the negotiation fell apart. Like, I don't even think they got really, well, I think Toronto made offers.

I think they had some things on the table. I think Calgary kind of told them what it would take. But I just heard that what Calgary valued the money at, the retention money at, and, you know, $3.2 million is nothing to sneeze at. I know it's pocket change for you and your Stouffville manner, but it's real money for the rest of us. I just don't think they ever got anywhere, or got far enough, I should say. I think they tried to get somewhere. They just didn't get far enough. So I think Toronto really tried.

They couldn't do it. The retention or the non-retention from Vancouver was really important to Calgary, and so Vancouver took the deal now Tanev I do think Toronto will continue to try Tanev I think the other factor here that was a thing is that you know Calgary as far as I can tell didn't give anybody permission to talk to uh Zdorov but I think Calgary suspects that if Toronto traded for either player if not both they would be able to re-sign them and you know I think I don't do I think that scuttled the trade no but I think in the back of their minds that the Flames might have been wondering okay if we trade

a rental or two rentals there and the player re-signed because we think they're Toronto will have the ability and the desire to do it and the player will because we think they're Toronto will have the ability and the desire to do it and the player will want to go there I just think they felt that that could make the deal look even worse in the long run I don't think it was a primary concern but I think it was a thing anyway Tanev you know Jeff I'm getting some mixed messages I had a couple people who called me on Sunday who said that a Tanev will take longer to trade because he's making more money than Zdorov. At this point in time, there was only one team that could take all of Zdorov's salary that wanted him, and that was Vancouver. So since Tanev makes more, it's even more complicated.

And, you know, I had a couple people who think that Calgary makes another run to sign him. Now, I don't know what the likelihood of that is or isn't, but I did have a couple people who think that Calgary will try to keep him. So we'll see how that all plays out. But Toronto is definitely looking for D. The search for D is on. I heard right-hand shot. I heard preferences for an edgier or more physical player but look like Klingberg there should be clarity this week we're expecting him to be out for the year Sheldon Keefe said

Lilligren is still a little bit away now they lost Giordano you know I think Toronto is a preference on what they want to do as I just explained they may have to just go out and get someone because they need to but they are definitely on the look for a d and they prefer a right shot um you know there was a there was a name that was floated out over the weekend i don't think by either of the teams would be involved in a deal but the name sean walker was out there this weekend that's another right shot d now it's not the you know know, snarly Nikita Zdorov or the shot blocking machine that is Chris Tanev, but he's someone who's played,

he's having a really great season. He's played really well this year. Really well this year. Yeah. And, you know, he's on an expiring contract as well, which isn't to say that he couldn't get traded and go back to Philadelphia next year. But nonetheless, that is a name that's out there. Is that the sort of level of defenseman

that you think the Maple Leafs are hunting for? You know, I had, uh, when you mentioned that to me Saturday, I, you know, again, like it's tough because the Leafs, and in this case, the Flyers, they don't really want to say anything. Right. So you kind of have to work around them the the Leafs were really tried to be secret under Dubas that really hasn't changed under Tree Living he's he's trying to keep it uh very quiet but um I I just got told by another team I heard that Walker is a good name around the league because there are teams who like him i was just told he wasn't on toronto's top list of targets now that doesn't mean it can't happen um you know toronto's top target where's the door of and tana and one's gone and we'll see on the other so sometimes you have to move and walker would be a very nice pickup but I just heard he wasn't the top choice for Toronto.

Do you have a sense of how either Shanahan or Tree Living feel about this team? We've talked about this from day one. They've been looking to do something with the blue line. But do you think it stops there? I think, boy, that's a great question. We're having a real hard time figuring out what Toronto is, right? Oh, yeah. So we were talking about on the last pod how they have five regulation wins this season,

which is tied for second worst in the NHL. Montreal is lower at four. You know, that said, I was in their dressing room on Saturday morning at the morning skate, and a couple of their players were saying to me, if any team had three defensemen banged up on the blue line like we do, and they were 6-1-1 in their last eight games, and now 6-1-2 after losing in overtime to the Bruins, would say oh they're really grinding it out they're they're showing a lot of character he's like not here not in Toronto it's panic time sound the alarm pound the alarm as Nicki Minaj would say um you know I thought it was actually

an interesting point I do think they're going to address their defense. I don't think there's any doubt about that. I'm curious to see what's going to happen in goal because Wohl looks like the guy right now. And Samsonov didn't play on Saturday because he was sick, but he has not played well this year. Again, hey, we were wondering, would they do a rental? They were willing to pay something to get two of them.

Although, again, I really do think one, if not both of them, would have signed. Like, there is definitely a feeling around the league that Toronto is confident it can sign Tanev. So, I mean, we'll see where all this goes. There's a lot to figure out here. They've got time. But the one thing a few teams told me is they're looking to plug some holes on their D. And while I think they would prefer term or someone they can sign,

if they have to trade a mid to late round pick for a guy who doesn't have any term, they might be prepared to do that because they might just have to. Okay. So another blue liner we should probably talk about as well. I don't know whether this sort of fits what Brad Tree Living is looking for, but you talked about him on Saturday and that is Tyson Berry. So Berry has been given permission, him and his agent, Bain Pittenger, to talk to other teams what's happening with the Nashville blue liner. to talk to other teams, what's happening with the Nashville Blue Liner. So if you look at the Predators,

we're starting to see a bit of a changing of the guard on their roster. You know, for one thing, Barry's a UFA after this year. So it sounds to me, obviously, like he's not part of their long-term plans. But if you look at their blue line right now, they've got this Spencer Stasny, who they really seem to like. He's a young player, and he looks like he's got a role on that team as long as he continues playing as well as he's playing. You know, Luke Shen, they just signed to a long-term deal. Dante Favreau has been a healthy scratch,

and Carrier, he's been injured but you know also too they're like there have been some rumblings that they want to change their blue line a bit I mean obviously Yossi's not going anywhere they've got McDonough they've got Shansine I think they really like the size of Jeremy Lazan and he plays a tough game. You know, Barry Trotz, old Western Hockey League D, he tends to like that kind of thing. They seem to really like this Stasny. Like, I think Barry, Carrier, and Fabbro, all of those players

might have some questions about their future. Maybe one or two of them goes, maybe one or two of them stays, but I don't think they're all safe. So as you mentioned, I found it out on Saturday morning making my calls that Nashville had given permission for Barry and his agent as you mentioned to speak to teams it kind of got around the league I heard it on on Saturday morning and it was confirmed

you know I don't know if Barry and Toronto are a great fit number one I don't think that's the kind of player they're looking for and number two Toronto was a great fit. Number one, I don't think that's the kind of player they're looking for. And number two, Toronto was a chamber of horrors for Barry the last time he came here. It just unfortunately wasn't a good mix. But, you know, there's teams out there who need someone who can score,

and Barry will be highly motivated because he's playing for his next deal. You know, I have to say, I was talking to one player on Sunday, and he said to me, he's really rooting for Barry because Barry is a really popular guy. That if you ask players around the league who one of the more fun guys is, one of the players that, you know, really goes out of his way

to make life good on uh new players and who come to a team or a player who might be a bit quiet on a team barry is a guy who has that reputation i know last year when the when the predators and the others made that trade you know the others had to include barry to make it work but one of the things they were talking about internally while they were going through the motions was they're going to be players on this team who are not thrilled that Barry's going to get dealt. And ultimately you do what you think is right.

And at home was, was what that team needed. But there are going to be guys in the league rooting for Barry to end up in a place that's good for him because he's a popular guy. Okay. So we're really working a blue line theme here to kick off the podcast. You going to San Jose now? So let's go to San Jose.

I'll just put it bluntly. Is everybody available? I think so. I had some people who said to me they wonder if, you know, they've got a couple of young D, you know, the guys they traded for last year in the Timo Mayer deal. Like those might not be the guys that they're too interested in moving, which you can, you know, totally understand that that would be the case.

Those are young players. But I think that they do have, basically, their blue line is available. They are willing to listen on just about anything. Now, Mike Greer wouldn't talk about it. He politely declined it. But there's enough out there that you can kind of figure out what it is. Now, Mario Ferraro is a guy who last year, the rumor was that Carolina took a big run at him and really tried to get him. And somebody said to me, you look at him, he's a really talented young player,

another guy who's got a really good reputation. He's signed for two more years at $3.25 million. There's going to be a lot of teams checking the price tag on this one because he's not expensive, he's young, he's not expensive he's young he's 25 he's a talented player and you know people understood why san jose is doing this uh you know san jose this year look obviously they knew they were going into a rebuild i don't think they expected it to be like this i really don't think they expected it to be like this now all of a sudden they started to play a little bit better.

Greer challenged them. They had a big road win the other day in New Jersey. They scored as many goals in that game against New Jersey as they'd scored on the road all year, pretty much. So it was a big one for them. Gave the Rangers all they wanted Sunday night, too. Yes, but they need a lot of help, a lot of help. And I think what they're basically saying is we're going to have to do

whatever we can to play the let's increase our asset game. Let's give ourselves more lottery tickets. Let's find more young players. And what someone said to me is they think there will be a team, whether it's Carolina or somebody else, that will do it for Ferraro. They said they will be able to get good assets for him because he's a good player if that's what they want to do. You know, on Saturday, Ron mentioned the name Mark Edward Vlasic as well.

He's got a pretty big price tag. But we said that about Eric Carlson as well. Now, I know they're profoundly different players. Yeah, you can't compare them. You can't. But this year and two more, it's $7 million. I mean, that's a lot for the 36-year-old blue liner. But nonetheless, Mark Edward Vlasic?

Well, I'll say this about vlasic like carlson yeah he had a big ticket but he was also coming off a 100 point season and won the norris trophy i don't think you can compare them you know like vlasic was one of the most interesting guys i dealt with i always used to love like the one time of year i you know san jose came east because vlasic was a gold mine for quotes like an absolute gold mine i remember when when he played on that 2014 olympic team that won a gold medal i remember the year before like people started to tell me get to get to know vlasic a lot better because he's going to be on that team and you know and i remember he would come through toronto and i would go up to him and i would say mark can i talk to you a minute and he'd smile

and say it's about time you eastern guys started to recognize me and it was really different than what you're used to uh in the nhl like he was basically saying worship worship me, worship me. And he was a great quote. He clearly felt that he was being disrespected and not getting the level of recognition that he deserved. And I really loved dealing with him for it because, like I said, he was a goldmine. Somewhere along the way, and he's getting benched a lot, Jeff. Yeah, he didn't play Sunday against Rangers too. I'll tell you what the word is on him. He's lost that.

For a long time, he was a guy who was chip on the shoulder. Nobody knows who I am. I don't get the respect I deserve. And I'm a hell of a player. And he was like he was an important player on good San Jose teams and championship team Canada teams for whatever reason I don't know what it is he's not the same guy anymore and I think one of the reasons that San Jose benches them is because that fire, it's been quenched. And when you're having a year like this, like you are,

and you're turning over your team, you just, you, you can't have that. You can't show your players that if you feel a player isn't competing to the level they can, especially around around young players you can't let that happen so i i think the biggest challenge like i have no doubt they want to move last like they're not scratching a guy as much as they are because they're happy with them but jeff like the thing is because you said it's this year and two more it's seven million and there's some signing bonuses there too you know the the thing is is he going to be able to prove to a team that he's 75 of what he was or 65 of of what he was

because unfortunately the book on him is that his his grind factor his grind factor, his determination factor, it's not there. That would have to involve some retention if you're going to do anything with Mark Edward Vlasic. The one guy that I do wonder about as well, and we've come back to him on San Jose, this is the last bit on San Jose, and then we'll move along.

I would imagine that Mike Greer would have no trouble moving Anthony DeClaire. Yes, and earlier in the year, I thought DeClaire was going to extend there. I really did. As a matter of fact, I heard rumors that they were going to talk about that, but again, a really talented player.

He scored on Sunday against the Rangers. Scoring is always good, Jeff, so I've been told. I agree with you. I think they'll have no doubt moving him because he's proven he's a very useful performer. Okay. This podcast, and to a

large extent as well, your hits with me on the radio show daily revolved around the Edmonton Oilers and Jack Campbell still applying his trade in Bakersfield. Do we have any indication that he might be ready to get called back up? I think it's coming. Now, I have to tell you, I had a funny exchange on Saturday night.

So I had heard he was going to play the game on Saturday, and then he was going to come. Now the Oilers are right at the roster limit so I think part of the issue here, Jeff, is that they have to figure out how they can make it work because they saved a little over a million dollars on the cap because he's in the American Hockey League. If they're going to bring him back up,

they don't save that money anymore, and they have to figure out how to make room for him on the roster. So I believe that was one of the issues. But Saturday night was eventful, to say the least. So their game, Bakersfield against Texas, starts at 7 local, 10 eastern. I do my headlines 32-bit on Saturday night just after 9 o'clock.

And not long after 10, I get a text from a scout I know who's at the game, Bakersfield, Texas. And he said, go onto the internet and look at the first goal of this game. And so I do. And like, I'm not going to lie to anybody. It was a rough one.

It was a rough one. And Campbell battled back and he made some good saves. And I think they won six to four. I think he ended up making something like 25 saves, 27 saves or something like that. But the game was a bit of an adventure there was one really ugly goal there were some great saves there was one really weird goal i guess the fourth one was a really weird goal but i think the others are committed to this and i do expect to see him and see him and you know this is why jeff we're gonna play let's make a deal the famous oh the famous game show from when you and i are kids and a reboot didn't do very well what do you think

it will cost the edmonton oilers to move Jack Campbell right now. Are they retaining any part of the contract? I don't even know if that's relevant, to be honest. High pick, top prospect, one or the other. Okay, or, and, and, or, you can use all three versions. If the idea is to buy them out, it's going to cost you $10 million. So the oil is looking at a situation where they either have to keep them and buy them out at the end of the year. $10 million.

Or they're going to have to trade a high pick and or a good prospect to get it done. So I think the oilers say we are stupid if we don't give this one more run. Now, the challenge with them is that they don't have a huge runway. They don't have a lot of time to be patient with this. But I believe their choice was, especially as he started to play better in the American Hockey League, they had three good games in a row before this last one. We are not doing ourselves enough justice if we don't give him one more shot.

And that's, I think, what they're going to do. As soon as they figure out the roster, I think that's what they're going to do. How many clunkers do the roster, I think that's what they're going to do. How many clunkers do they have left? Can you figure? None. No time. Oof.

You know what I think? First of all, I root for Campbell because I root for the person, right? I want this to work. We all do. I want this to work. Any sane person wants this to work because of the person.

Yes. I was talking to a former goalie the other day and he said to me you you have to work it into his head that you don't have to be prime dominic hasik you just have to be one save better than the other guy. But the problem is, he said to me, is that it all depends on how you take it. Because let's say you give up a goal,

now all of a sudden you're thinking, if you're the kind of guy who thinks, oh man, now I've got to be two goals better than the other guy it piles up on you right it's all between the ears but he said to me that the thing you've really got to do is convince Jack Campbell you don't have to be like I said Hasek or Wah or whoever just say Jack we need one more save than the other guy at the end of the ice can you do that and he has to buy in he has to buy into that the other thing too is like this columbus thing is pretty interesting jeff i don't think edmonton's the only team hang on by the way when elliot says this columbus thing what he's to, if you missed the last podcast, is the Oilers have been around the Columbus Blue Jackets

and maybe not just necessarily around the goaltending. Sorry, go ahead. Thank you, narrator. That was very good and very helpful. I don't think they're the only team that's been around Columbus a little bit. I think Washington's been around them. I think Vegas has been around them. I think Vegas has been around them.

There's some teams looking at it. And the one thing I would say about Edmonton is I don't know if they wanted to do anything that just was lateral or... I think they... A, it was we have to find a way to give Campbell one more chance here. And secondly,

are we just going to make a trade for the hell of it? Or are we going to, if we do anything, it's going to be significant. So this one could be a large deal then. No, I'm not even saying that. I'm just more saying like,

I, I like, I know they've been flying Columbus around a lot, and I know I said in the last podcast they weren't necessarily just looking at goalies. I think they were looking at everybody. I just think that I'm not convinced there's anything that close between them. I think Edmonton really feels that, look, McDavid's healthy. At home's healthy.

We need to see if campbell's any better we're not rushing into anything we'll see i could be totally wrong about that but that's the impression i kind of got all right one more goalie note as a uh as a follow-up elliot from something we talked about earlier this season as someone pointed out to us about devin levi of the buffalo sabers doing his tv timeout meditation um just above the top of the crease uh and you had wondered because you're a very cynical negative person if he was doing that uh to keep that ice chewed up there that valuable ice you don't want that smooth because that's good for shooters you thought it might have been tactical and you questioned the motivation of devin levi i got a note from someone on i think

it was friday um uh who was at the rochester belleville game and sent along a picture and said is this new because he was doing his meditation not in front of the net during the timeout, but doing it at the face-off dot. And so looked into it and checked around. And turns out he had done the face-off dot in the NHL before he got sent down to Rochester. Because, and I think you wondered about this as well, NHL hockey operations asked him to stop doing it essentially beat it get out of the way we need to clean that ice

so he was told to go do that somewhere else Elliot pretty interesting eh the problem is as you know if the face off is in your zone at the dot where does the puck go in the dot that's right and that's where he does his meditation i wonder if that's now becoming an issue with the linesman who would

like this guy is playing 4d chess man he may be the smartest of all of all the goaltenders here somebody's gonna know the answer to this because i don't know what it is but in the original star wars movie there's a scene on the millennium falcon where they're playing some sort of game chewbacca's playing against r2d2 levi because he's a big star wars guy he's playing that game he's playing 4d that game just going to places on the ice where he can cause problems for the other team first crease get out of there yeah now face off dot and eventually you're gonna have to get out of there i knew it like i think that's so smart i knew i knew it i knew he was hey if you're not cheating you're not trying he's trying he's trying hang on dom just texted us on our group chat here that it's called

is it the jeric or the jaric jaric the jaric did you actually know that or did you look it up i knew that are you a star wars guy yes tell me something else that you know about star wars that people are going to say what an absolute star wars nerd that is so impressive they play a poker style game called pizak as well welcome to the nhl's first hockey star wars podcast yeah dom i didn't know that about you i i gotta tell you dom i um i i lost the star wars universe. I got to tell you, Dom, I lost the Star Wars universe. It just got to be after the first season of The Mandalorian, I was like, this is just getting too much for me.

You're not alone. Jar Jar Binks killed it for me. That was it. I was out. I tapped out on that one. You know, I get that. I understand that. And we're going way off track here.

I did not like the prequels except the last 20 minutes of what was that one revenge of the sith was that the third one revenge of the sith the last 20 minutes of revenge of the sith were as good as any star wars movie ever those three prequels were disappointed but but that span was incredible. Shall we go back to hockey? Yes. Away from Star Wars into the universe, that is the Montreal Canadiens.

So they re-signed Samuel Montembeau. It is a three-year contract extension. 3.1 is the AAV. You wondered and talked about this a couple of weeks ago on Hockey Night and this podcast. Your thoughts now that it's done? Well, first of all, congratulations to Montembeau. He's a guy who's worked hard to get here.

It's not been a linear path. I know there were some people looking at it and saying, what? Like that, his career numbers are worth this. I think that's kind of a weak way to look at it. He's a guy who's gotten better the last year or two and i think goalies have a longer prime than some of the players do skaters do i should say i believe montreal had made it very clear we were willing to sign it assign you but they didn't want it to drag and i don't think they're going to rush into anything but now they know they have them right

so i think now it's going to be okay what do people think about alan what do the people think about primo i do think we are in the end game of montreal's three goalie system however i'm not convinced yet which of the two it is going to be really we all just assume that the decision was to be made between Montembeau and Primo. I'll be honest, that was my first thought. Okay, there's their choice. Well, not necessarily. Don't forget, Primo is signed for next year. Actually, it was interesting. We were having this conversation, Ron, Jen, and Kevin and I on Saturday night, you're still young. You're still growing. You're not really expected to win yet.

And you're not going to win this year. If you get a good offer for Alan, do it. Add more assets. And then if you need to find another goalie, go out and do it in the summer. That's all contingent though though, on Jake Allen waving, though. Well, he doesn't have a full no trade. No, I understand that, too, but he still does have some control here.

Yeah, he has some, but either you get him to a place he wants to go or you send him somewhere he doesn't have the trade protection. Again, though, I'm not convinced it's going to be Allen. It could be Primo. One of the reasons the Canadians made it very clear they kept Primo and didn't waive him because there were teams they knew that liked him.

So I'm not convinced it's going to be Allen, but if your question is, do we need to keep Allen for this year as a lock, I don't think it is, depending on the offer you get, because it's not like this year you're going to win. Let's buzz through a couple more things here before we get to the thought line. The Arizona Coyotes. Holy smokes, they're poised to do something really special here. As a matter of fact, they already have.

So they have wins in order against vegas tampa colorado st louis that's amazing all teams that have recently won the stanley cup and they'll complete it if they beat washington on monday night they'll have knocked off the caps the blues the avalanche tampa vegas i mean you just look at the schedule initially right when you get it if you're you know the the manager of the Arizona Coyotes and you say to yourself, oh, thanks for lining up all the Stanley Cup winners for us and one by one, the Arizona Coyotes,

and you got to give it up for Connor Ingram here. He has been fantastic. Yes, fantastic season. You've been knocking them down, Elliot. You know, I've always rooted for connor ingram ever since you know he was a guy who went into the program for obsessive compulsive disorder remember that yeah of course and look at how well he's doing here i mean it's a great story i'm really happy for him first of all the coyotes any success they have is a good thing because no organization needs to build momentum

like the Coyotes do for a lot of different reasons. So I find it fascinating. They're sitting here. They've got a 565 win percentage. So it's not like they're in the playoffs because they've played more games than anyone else. They're in the playoffs because their winning percentage dictates they're in the playoffs. They have shown an interest in adding this year. You know, the Hannafin thing, they kicked tires on Hannafin, more than kicked tires on Hannafin. They were interested.

So that says to me that Arizona is looking at how can we make ourselves better, and you're in a position. Look, I always go by goal differential. They're plus eight. That's the seventh best number in the Western Conference, and we all know what they're trying to do off the ice here. I think it's really interesting.

I think it's really fascinating. But when do we get to a point where the coyotes say, we're going for it? And I just wonder, as circumstances dictate, it's now. Well, that's it. That's what I was going to get to here. You're Bill Armstrong, general manager of the team. Are you saying to yourself,

we need to start planning as if we're going to be adding at trade deadline? And when have we seen the last time we saw Arizona Coyotes adding at deadline, Elliot? It's been a long time. Sure has, but it feels like we're there right now. And what's the only way you're going to build momentum to get a building done there? Completely.

By winning games. Now, there's one spot open in the central because one and two is going to be any combination of in order of uh the dallas stars and the colorado avalanche three is open so arizona's looking like they're interested and all of a sudden soar minnesota and under john hines they're now 3-0. They've outscored teams 13-3. And all of a sudden, they've remembered how to kill penalties. They've defended 10 of the last 11 successfully.

They beat Chicago 4-1 on Sunday. Here's a good news story. Marco Rossi with a pair of goals. How many other problems are solved if Marco Rossi actualizes into the player that we all think he can become? Nonetheless, your thoughts on Minnesota now under John Hines? Well, I'm sure Dean Everson is watching this and probably to some degree Bill Guerin is saying, where was this? Yeah.

Like, where was all this stuff? You're right. They're getting saves. They're winning games. It's the new coach bounce, right? Yep. The cat fell off the 53rd floor and it's bounced. Now we're going to see what happens from here.

Great week for them. Good to see. You know, Jeff, there are some, you can see it right now, there are some places where the stress is starting to hit, okay? So we've talked about Edmonton, and they're hoping they've kind of been through the worst. Now we've just talked about Minnesota, and they're hoping that they've been through the worst.

We've seen it in Calgary, and they're hoping that they've been through the worst. But now I'm looking at the Eastern Conference. Ottawa, now they're going to start catching up in games, and they've got a big game. They're one of the worst teams in the league in the second period. They held the lead against Seattle, and I heard that they thought they played pretty well

even though they lost in Columbus on Friday night. But I think now Ottawatawa we've talked about columbus a lot i want to leave them alone buffalo that one is mounting new jersey you know that that was a bad loss to san jose and the other one i'm looking at is is tampa um that was a really really ugly loss on saturday afternoon so you know the meat grinder it goes through different places and you know for there's a week or two a year where you're the team that's getting chewed up in the meat grinder and some of those teams do it but get through it but there there's other teams, they're in it right now. And those teams I just named, New Jersey, Buffalo, Ottawa, Tampa Bay.

I know I named a whole bunch of teams in the East. I don't know that Seattle's there yet. I didn't sense a ton of panic when they were through toronto i think they're a little frustrated but i didn't sense panic you know i can see it in these situations you know like someone said to me on the weekend jeff what happens if tampa is a bubble team and stamkos isn't signed at the end of the season. Well, that's what Julian Brisebois talked about at the beginning of the season.

We need to see what the season's going to be like here. But teams are going to call. Of course they will. Yeah, so I'm looking at these groups right now, and you can feel, like someone said to me, it's a high-stress league. It started in the pre-season and every week there's some places that are worse than others and now there's a whole bunch of new teams that are looking at it and going i guess it's our turn right now to

grit our teeth yeah try some chamomile tea maybe a a steam, 30-minute massage. Do some extra stretching, meditation. Grind our way through this. We've seen it rotate weekly. It's their turn in the barrel. On that, we'll hit our first pause. When we come back to Montana's Thought Line, some interesting phone calls and emails from you.

And also, Elliot, before we finish the podcast, I want to get your thoughts on a couple of different ideas that we're experimenting with in the PWHL Utica camp for the kickoff of the season in January. All that's still to come. Montana's Thought Line is next. Keep it here. Listen to the 32 Thoughts podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. Okay, Elliot, time now for the Montana's Thought Line, Montana's Barbecue and Bar, Canada's home for barbecue. Try the ribs.

32thoughts.sportsnet.ca is the email. 1-833-311-3232 is the phone line. 32thoughts.sportsnet.ca, 1-833-311-3232 is the phone line 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca 1-833-311-3232 I'd like to add a tag onto this one. I was at Montana's on Saturday afternoon. My kid had a hockey tournament

in Hamilton. Try the pecan salad. It is excellent. It doesn't really run off your tongue though, eh? But I had it. Try the ribs. Try the pecan salad.

Try the pecan salad. No? It just doesn doesn't it just doesn't do it i have to say it's not the same all right fine i'll go back to my little corner um so under the heading of playing for rivals just three that i want to read off if you have a thought great if not i just wanted to get him on the podcast here sean submits hey guys listening to you poolside in watulco oh nice before returning home to calgary it was a couple of years after his time in edmonton but speaking of players with rivals how about grant fuhrer on the calgary flames that one looked different eliot but but again it was a long time. Someone brought up Jager to me with the flyers. But to me, it almost has to be immediate. Kane goes right from Chicago to Detroit in months. Yeah.

So John from Detroit submits this one. My weirdest moment of seeing a rival in a new jersey has to be Chris Chelios coming here from the Hawks. Those battles, Wings versus Hawks hawks were legendary that's true i hated him as a rival but oh boy i was doing a happy dance when he put on the winged wheel sweater go wings does that one satisfy you chelios he was traded but he did make the chicago wasn't sending him there if he didn't want to go. So yes, there is some. Okay. I will, in my great, great empathy and wisdom, I will grant that one. Steven Utica.

I'm a lifelong Flyers fan and Eric Lindros forever changed the way I try and still try to play the game. Oh, good luck playing it the way that Eric Lendros did. Seeing him in the Rangers blue was the hardest pill to swallow. Love the pod. Thanks for the insight. The ribs are great. Hey, if anyone's had the pecan salad, let me know. Try the pecan salad.

New York Ranger. It doesn't really flow. It's just not good. It's really not good. It's really not good. The salad's good. The rhyme isn't. Let's make it very clear. Eric Lindros, Ranger.

He was almost a Ranger initially. Yes, he was. That one's also a place where he wanted to go, no question about it. But the difference with that is, unfortunately, and I'm glad it's changed, but unfortunately, it was so bad and so negative between Lindros and the Flyers at the time.

Yeah. I think everybody was just like, he has to go somewhere else. Wherever it is, he just has to go. All right, let's get to Dion. Quick question. I just watched Tristan Jarry scoring a goal today, and I was just curious because he was able to score because the other team pulled out the goalie to get more men on the ice.

And I'm just curious if you guys know who's the first coach that thought about it and with as many goals that we saw in the last few weeks, if this strategy might change in the future. All right, thanks, guys. Have a good one. Great question, Dion. This one is right up Mrick's alley so a couple of

moments ago dom put on his star wars nerd hat let me put on my hockey nerd hat on this one i wonder which hat looks worse the star wars nerd hat or the hockey nerd hat what do you think mine is more of a helmet yeah hockey's more of a helmet too equally terrible so this one's interesting because some people will tell you that it was wikipedia will tell you was milt schmidt um boston bruins montreal canadians april 16th 1958 pulling don simmons and bronco bronco Horvath goes over the boards. Not true. It was actually Art Ross, the legendary Art Ross, whether it's the net, whether it's the puck, whether it's the original Shanahan summit. There was once an Art Ross summit because stop me if you've heard this one before. There was a concern that there weren't enough goals being scored in the NHL.

So Art Ross put together a summit. Anyhow, March 26th, 1931, he pulled Tiny Thompson, a net minor, and sent out Red Beatty. This was in a Stanley Cup final. A Vesna Trophy winner. At Boston, at Boston Guard.

They didn't win. He didn't score. And they ended up losing to the Montreal Canadiens. The first recorded one, though, I believe was Frank Boucher with the New York Rangers. But the first time it happened in the NHL was indeed Art Ross. But here's the one thing that I can't figure out

or I can't find out. I just don't know the answer to it. Maybe someone does. Who's the first team to do it successfully? As in score? As in score a goal. Pull the goaltender for the extra attacker and score. That one I've been unable to find out.

But I have a new quest, and my quest begins by asking everyone else to do my research for me and putting it out here on the podcast. Yes, it was... It's a good idea. Someone will find it out. Oh, of course. Someone will know. 100%. Someone's going to Good idea. Someone will find it out. Someone will know.

100%. Someone's going to fire that. Someone will take credit for it, even more importantly. And that's, well, listen, what do we always talk about? Greatness borrows, but genius steals. 100%. Greatness borrows, but genius steals. Finish with this one.

This is great. Hold on one sec. Dion did have another question. Do you think it'll change the strategy? No, I don't. The one thing that has changed with that is teams pull the goalies sooner. Nobody's like Patrick Wadd doing it with three minutes gone in the first period. Nobody's doing that.

But there are teams who are doing it sooner than they ever have been. Jeff, remember it used to be, be okay one minute left or 50 seconds has to be deep has to be different now different now uh i think you'll like this one rules and regulations harrison from bangkok greetings from yeah greetings from bangkok where youth hockey both boys and girls is growing at an impressive rate. That's great to hear. I was wondering, would the NHL consider slash allow teams to collaborate on in-season competitions for some sort of tangible prize, cash bonus or otherwise, without the cap implications? For example, could all three California teams agree to have a battle for California

where the winner is a team with the best intra-California record each season? This would promote rivalries, add extra motivation throughout the season. Like this year, the Sharks and Ducks might not make the playoffs, but they may challenge for the battle of CA and have something meaningful to play for down the stretch. P.S., can you give a shout out to Scott Murray? He's a hockey crazed Canadian expat who essentially created ice hockey in Thailand 30 years ago. He'd get a kick out of it.

Scott, by the way, went to Thailand, I want to say in the early 90s, working as a journalist and stayed and established incredible promotions and teams. Harrison in Bangkok's right. He is a legend in Thailand when it comes to hockey. And also, um, a little note of trivia here, Elliot, you like this one considering you used to work there as did I, his grandfather Gladstone. Murray was the first general manager of the CBC. Hmm. That's what I got for you today.

This is all fantastic. First of all, I absolutely love the idea. Even if the NHL isn't really involved in it, if the California teams created an unofficial California championship. Yep. It doesn't have to be officially recognized. You just do it by the games they all play each other by points percentage.

If it's, if points are tied, you go by points percentage or most goals. Goal differential. Yeah, goal differential. Find a tiebreaker. I think it is a fantastic idea. I love it. Harrison, you got a winner. Thank you so much.

Now, what would you name it after? You could call it the Oakland Golden Seal Cup. The Golden Seal Cup. So you're thinking of defunct NHL teams on the coast? If you take a look at college football, just something that's California, like the Jack Kent Cook Cup or something like that. You have to make it something that is.

The Charlie O'Finley Cup. Well, he's baseball. He doesn't count. But like if you take a look at. Oh, he owned the Seals. Oh, that's right. I forgot. I always think about him as more of a baseball guy

than a hockey guy. But you find something that's, you know what? you could call it, you could call it the, well, if you wanted to, you could call it the Gretzky Cup because the reason all three of those teams are there is because of Gretzky. Yeah, I'm down with the Gretzky Cup for California. Or, or, you could, well, it's too Mighty Ducks-ish, It's too Mighty Ducks-ish, but maybe you could call it the Gordon Bombay Cup.

Or do you just let whoever wins it name the cup? You always have to take it one step too far. Yeah, I know. That's my job in life. But you could come up with a name and make it. I think that's a great idea. The unofficial California championship. You could have the unofficial Florida championship, the unofficial Ontario championship,

and the Leaf fans will call it, if we lose this, we'll pretend we don't care enough about the Senators to be bothered. Cup. Oh my, oh my, oh my. The Smug Cup. The Smug Cup. The Battle of Alberta. Yeah.

Could be a barrel of oil. The Barrel of Oil Cup. Devils Islanders Rangers. Devils Islanders Rangers. Oh. What'd you call that one? The Kevin Weeks Cup. The Kevin Weeks Cup is the right choice.

And Kevin's on hand to hand it out. Okay. Well, there you go. That's settled. Tidy bit of business here, courtesy of the Montana's Thought Line and Trophy Creation Line. Montana's Barbecue and Bar, Canada's home for barbecue. Again, thanks to everyone who emailed and called. Man, we got a lot and they're all good.

32 thoughts at sportsnet.ca, 1-833-311-3232. Coming up next, Elliot, your thoughts on what the PWHL is experimenting with at their Utica camp. And also, it's a very special week for the Hughes family. That's next. Okay, Elliot, so the PWHL, the Professional Women's Hockey League, Utica Camp, getting everybody set for the season and trying out different things.

And a couple of things that they're experimenting with is, you know, we've talked about this before, but I kind of get the impression they might just go for it during their league. Two-minute major penalties and no icing on the penalty kill obviously really trying to put a premium on scoring power play goals but your thoughts on two minute majors i.e you get a full two minute power play no matter how many goals you score which used to be the rule in the nhl until the Montreal Canadiens ruined it by scoring too many goals and ending games too early. And you're not allowed icing on the penalty kill.

Well, you are, but the puck automatically comes back into the offensive zone. What about the penalty's over if you score shorthanded? You know, it's interesting. I'm not going to lie to you. They're not going far enough, Jeff. Listen, I'm not going to lie to you. I mentioned that to someone, and I was told that it's interesting. That's an interesting response.

You know, when somebody says to me, it's interesting, you know what that means? They think it's stupid and it's not going to happen. We'll see. We'll see. It sounds like the PWHL is going to try some things here. I don't think they want to you know move hockey too far to uh one side but one side or the other but it sounds like they're going to try some things

here so two minute major penalties and no icing on the penalty kill we'll see what happens you know what i like i like all ideas i i really do like anything that people try differently i'm all for it i just think it's really funny that your one answer came back with that's interesting because i know what that means when i was in high school or university can i have your phone number it's interesting that you would ask that yeah i'm not getting the number okay so here's why it's an interesting week for the hughes family yeah as we have a look at our games coming up this week i turn to tuesday december the 5th it is the final game on the docket that night 10 o'clock eastern the new jersey devils in vancouver to face off against

the canucks hughes and hughes versus hughes i think it's going to be fantastic i asked kevin on saturday night how much the door of would have on the board he said low four figures how much do you think the hughes brothers oh knowing how competitive they are oh yeah and how much money two of the three have already in their jeans well that's the thing does Does Quinn have to equal what Jack and Luke put up? Oof. Man. That's like you're the only rookie on the team, and it's rookie dinner time,

and you don't have another rookie to share it with. Oof. That's a tough one. Listen, knowing how competitive they are and how fierce they are against one another, I'm inclined to say yes. It'll be a big one. Yeah.

It'll be a big night. They love each other, but they'll want to kill each other. There's no, well, at least two of them will want to kill the other one. I want to want to kill two. It's not going to be a three-way. Yeah. This one, this one should be a great game. Uh, Hughes versus Hughes on Tuesday. Uh, and that will wrap, um, enjoy. be a three-way yeah this one this one should be a great game uh hughes versus hughes on tuesday

on that we'll wrap um enjoy listen arizona against washington all of a sudden got real spicy as we mentioned arizona's beaten vegas they've beaten tampa they've beaten colorado they have beaten st louis all recent stanley cub winners they can complete it uh this miraculous stretch of games by beating Washington on Monday. Check that one out. Check out the Hughes game on Tuesday and all the rest of the action all your eyeballs can handle. On behalf of the whole crew here, Merrick signing off.

We'll talk to you again Friday morning with another edition of 32 Thoughts. We'll see you next time.