32 Thoughts: The Podcast - The New Cap Era

Episode Date: September 18, 2026

In this edition of 32 Thoughts, Kyle Bukauskas and Elliotte Friedman talk about the piece on Matthew Mayich on Sportsnet.ca. They provide an update on Connor Hellebuyck as training camps open across the NHL (9:00). The guys talk about Shawn Horcoff being introduced as the Red Wings’ new GM and Dylan Larkin’s frustration after his trade request became public (23:00), before discussing Cutter Gauthier upcoming deal (38:00) and Ryan Leonard’s eight-year, $84 million deal with the Capitals (41:00) and the dawn of the new cap era. Elliotte also provides insight into Adam Fantilli’s contract negotiations and the dollar figure his camp has had in mind (49:00), while the guys react to Nikita Kucherov’s comments about the current state of hockey (51:00). The Final Thought looks ahead to the Leafs’ split-squad game in Toronto and a familiar face behind the opposing bench (57:00)Kyle and Elliotte answer your emails and voicemails in the Thoughtline (1:01:03).Listen to all the 32 Thoughts music here.Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I know it's exhibition. I want to see this guy play. He looks really good. Really good. Yes. Sounded like a good frame of mind, too, to kick off training camp sitting alongside Austin Matthews and John Tavares there at the podium.

Did not look out of place there and certainly not out of place the first few laps up and down the ice to begin training camp. Okay, that was a final five. By the way, he had one of the lowest moments of his NHL career this week, unfortunately.

What's that? Interviewed by Dave Amber? Yes, she had to do an interview with David Hammer. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Happy Friday. Kyle, Elliot, and Dom back with you. It is the point in time where training camps across the league are officially underway.

It's been quite the week already from all those contracts that got in before the new CBA came into effect. Who looks good? First day on ice. combinations and who isn't at training camp. We'll get to that all in just a moment. But first, Elliot, you are in Phoenix, Arizona, because a couple days ago, you spent some time with the Mayach family. John and Christina, the parents, Stephanie and Josh, the siblings of Matthew

Mayach, the young man from Stony Creek, Ontario, who is St. Louis Blues draft pick. And if you haven't heard just a horrible, horrible incident back in August during some off-ice training. He's part of the Arizona State men's hockey team. And right now is in a really tough spot at a hospital there. And we're all thinking about it. First, Elliot, I mean, the piece that you can find on Sportsnet.com, it is beautiful, but very heavy. I just want to give you the floor to describe what you saw there and what it was like. being around the family. I mean, first of all, it came together really quickly. We were in

Edmonton on Tuesday at the media day for the Oilers camp, and that's when we got word that the family wished to speak. And so we left Edmonton that day for Phoenix and did the interview on Wednesday. I wanted to show it out a couple of our features producers, Michael Attic and Jeremy McElaney, who got things turned around really fast. You know, I don't want to say too much about the conversations behind the scenes between ourselves and the family, but, you know, they made it very clear that if they were going to consent to an interview, they didn't, Kyle, wanted to be all about what happened. You know, we did say, you know, we had to ask them a question about it, what they knew,

and that was the one question you saw in the interview. We couldn't not do that. But their real goal was right now, everybody knows their beloved son, brother, boyfriend, and friend Matthew from this story, right? And they said there's a whole other novel to his life and they wanted everybody to know it. And, you know, I think that all of us at SportsNet are just honored that they would ask us to help. And I hope they feel we did them justice. You know, the family is incredible. They are incredible people.

I think anybody out there recognizes how hard it is to do that interview. And, you know, one of the kind of funny stories about doing it, is that we booked a suite at the hotel they're staying at in Arizona. And so that room, obviously, where John and Christina are sitting is the sitting room. And in the bedroom, just there's one quick shot of Alexa, who is Matthew's girlfriend. But packed into that room, listening to the main part of the interview, were Stephanie, Matthew's sister, Josh, his brother, Alexa, Alexa's dad was in that room, and there were a couple of other people as well.

So, and as you know, Kyle, from being on these shoots, they're behind a ton of equipment. There are cameras in front of them. There are, you know, reflectors in front of them. So they are kind of packed in there like sardines. And also they want to at least have. a position where they can at least see into the other room as tight as it is. So we could hear them. We couldn't, I couldn't see them from where I was.

I'm not sure if the parents could, but we could hear them. We could hear them reacting to questions and we could, we could hear them sitting there. But the one thing that I did hear was after the interview was over, the family felt relief that they'd been able to say. what they were able to say. And like I said, Kyle, I think all of us at SportsNet were honored that they would allow us to do that. And we hope we did write by them

because it's a story that deserves to be told. And there were a lot of incredible things we learned about him. You know, I did see the room where he is being tended to in the hospital. I saw the, you know,

the fish. I saw the stone that was mentioned, the miracle medallion, all of the, all of the symbolism that is around him. And they are just such beautiful people

and a beautiful family. And I think anybody who cares for anybody out there completely would understand what it would be, how that they would feel the exact same way in that position. And they're just, they're just incredible, they're incredible people that they wanted to get their message out like that.

So, yeah, the video portion of the interview, as I mentioned, you can see it on sportsnet.com. And did I see you say like they remove the geo-fencing for it as well? Like it can be viewed anywhere? Yes. Initially, it was there, but obviously it's fortunate they made a great decision to take the geo-blocking off it. Okay, great. And you also did a written piece, and I just loved right at the end, the line from his sister, Stephanie, that he brought the noise, but the best type of noise.

And, man, just we're all hoping if there's ever a way that we can hear Matthew's noise again, that would be just tremendous. Great stuff. Okay. We should also say that we did send a question to Arizona State saying if there was anything they wanted to say and they said no, but they did release that something, they made it sound like some kind of, they're doing a review. So some kind of either statement or results of that review are expected soon. And, you know, I'll say this to John, the father. You know, I don't think I'm giving away any secrets. About an hour before we did the interview, I went and I met John and Christina at the hospital and sat down and talked to them a bit.

And John made a point of saying that he wanted to have a moment to tell the other. players at Arizona State that they shouldn't feel guilty, which he did in the piece. And I don't know what's going to happen at Arizona State. And I'm not interested in speculating. I think this is something you just wait for the results when it comes. But I did think it was very gracious and very selfless that he would think of the other Sun Devils players and say, please don't feel guilty over what happened or don't feel blame. It was remarkable composure in an unimaginable situation for that family, Elliot, no question. We sit here on Friday morning.

Teams were on the ice for the first time Thursday, and it was on Wednesday that the Winnipeg Jets announced that Connor Hallibuck had been suspended. He had not reported to training camp, has not, as of this recording. Now, this isn't something. that's costing him a paycheck, of course. Players aren't paid during training camp and the preseason. But general manager Kevin Shevoldeoff fielded questions from the media on Thursday, Elliot, and it seems like the mood hasn't changed.

Trade will happen when Shevoldeoff gets the type of return he is looking for. What did you take from his comments? It was, as I expected, I think one thing that was interesting to, me it was it's pretty clear to me that on the suspension the league is running the show that winnipeg went through the league and said or the league went to winnipeg and said these are the protocols that you have to follow like there was something i i didn't know that i learned on on wednesday kyle and that is that you know hellobach didn't have to be there first thing in the morning he just had to be there by end of day i never knew that before and um helibach had told the jet

that he was not coming. And the Jets knew that. But, you know, when they spoke to the league or the league spoke to them, they said, you know, this is how you have to handle it. Because if it does get into a grievance or if it does get into any kind of financial penalty, if you don't go by the book, you lose your case, right? So he had until end of day on Wednesday to be there. and obviously he wasn't,

and then with league approval, they could make the suspension. You know, I thought, you know what? I thought, listening to Sheffle to answer questions, I thought he was actually really good. He didn't hide much. There has definitely been a rumor out there

that if Hallowbuck felt that the team direction was not going the proper way, that there would be an understanding, even though he signed a long-term extension than he could be dealt. He disputed that. He, you know, in one of our more recent podcasts, actually it was last week's podcast, Kyle,

we talked about that there had been some things that had happened beyond the Jets control that I think contributed to all of this. And he did say that yes, there were some things that happened. you know, I think the Jets, you know, it's tough because nobody's going, you know, Shevalladav had a point of saying, look, we were told this privately and we kept it private. And, you know, I will say this about Kevin Shevoldeoff.

He's very much like that. That is true to his code. And that is that he's not a guy who is too eager. to volunteer off the record or private information. If you go to him and say, I've heard this, he will not lie to you. But if you don't know it, he won't volunteer it, right? And, you know, so I think that,

but I have heard that one of the issues that Jets have is the overall process throughout the point that there, or after the point that their season ended about information that came to them. And I think that is complicated this. However, I said the same thing about Mitch Marner, and I feel it about Connor Hellebock, that if there are things that have happened that make you uncomfortable,

only you can decide the true effect of that. Like, nobody else can sit there and say, oh, that's nothing or suck it up. No, you know, it's your situation, you decide. And I think that that has become a very big part of all of this. And it has been a, but it's a challenge for the Jets to navigate. Now, there's been a lot of talk this week about offers they've gotten or haven't got. I've been very consistent, Kyle, about that the Jets are not rebuilding here.

they feel that if they trade hella buck they need a goalie in return they still feel that they want to contend or try to contend I do think they feel that if they make a futures trade that they worry about do other players start coming and saying you know what like look at the league right now how many players are leaving situations where they don't think they can win and you have to believe that that is foremost on the jet's mind is that if they wave the white flag, okay, others might follow. And that definitely is part of their thinking. You know, I've gone through this a bit. You know, Florida's offer,

I think Florida was the first team that came up, to be honest. I think they were, I think they knew there was a chance, well before they got Markstrom. I think there was a time that they knew they could lose, I think they were very interested in Hellebuck. I believe that their offer was Rodriguez, the picks that went to Ottawa in the Brady-Kichuk trade, and one roster player, not Lundell.

I get asked all the time if it was Lundell. I think you'd have to rip Lundell out of Bill Zio's hands with a crowbar. I don't think he was the player. And, you know, I just heard that that deal wasn't enough for the Jets. I think the story now about the Sabres has been told quite a bit now the week of the draft. The biggest issue there was that, you know, the Jets wanted the fourth pick and they wanted to keep the eighth. Buffalo wanted, if they were going to trade the fourth, they wanted the eighth. You know, I think it's pretty clear now, especially the way they talk about them.

Winnipeg wanted Bjork, Vigo Bork really badly, but I don't think they wanted to draft him at four. and, you know, that didn't happen. You know, now I believe, and obviously nobody confirms these things, but now I believe that Lukanin has Winnipeg on his no trade, so that, you know, the Jets want a goalie, so that complicates things. I've heard there's at least one other goalie that either the Jets looked at or were offered to them, who now has Winnipeg on his no trade as of July 1st. And, you know, the thing about Carolina and the Kishan, it got out this week about a situation that was kind of known, but now it was confirmed.

You know, people are talking about could the Jets make a deal with Carolina around the Kishan? I do believe Carolina remains very interested. I would just say this. If the Jets wanted to do a Nekishan deal, it would probably be done already. And I think the Jets feel that there is a signability issue there. and you know someone said to me why don't the jets just take Nikisha and then flip them I don't think that appealed to them at all at all so you know that's kind of where we are we're in a holding pattern right now I think a lot of stuff is saber rattling you know it's poker

and we'll see where it goes over the next little while. I do think that the ideal time to get this done was before the draft and before July 1st when all these trade lists changed, but we're not there now. And you know what happens at this time of year, Dom, sorry, Dom's not the co-host of this pod. You know what happens at this time of year, Kyle, is that everybody's...

You know, I have my team and I want to see what it looks like. So it's, I don't know what the solution is right now, but I know that everybody's frustrated. And that right now I think Shevoldeoff is more patient than Hella Buccas. Right. And Shevoldeuf has shown that for many years now. Can I just say this whole thing around, was there a gentleman's agreement about being willing to trade him if he thinks the team's not going in the right direction. To me, that feels like a moot point. Because if you're a GM out there, if you sign any star player to a long-term deal with trade

protection, up the wazoo, you get all the bells and whistles, that's just reality now. If your team starts to go self, you have to be prepared as the GM as that player coming to you and saying, it's time. this is not what I signed up for. Like forget some gentleman's agreement or some piece of paper signed off onto the side to say, don't worry, we'll take care of you if things get bad. That's just reality now.

You don't need any side deal. We're seeing examples of it. We're going to get to Del Marcon in a minute. Like to me, that doesn't matter in the least. Yeah, you know what? That's just the world we live in. Yeah, I think it's very fair point, Kyle. I think the point that I think what Shevled off was saying

was that maybe he understands exactly what you just said, but that doesn't mean he promised it. Right, for sure. You don't have to. Like, I just don't think that matters. The other thing I wonder about, is there, I guess, a differing of value on this guy out there right now, Elliot? Does Sheffeldaio value him more than what teams are willing to give up?

I'm just trying to figure out what the potential holdup is here, right? Like three Veznas, the heart trophy. I think it is simply that this is a time of year where fewer big trades get made. Now, Kyle, we are kind of rewriting the rules of this league now. Like we're in a different, it's almost like if, you know, there's the Jurassic Age and the Paleozoic Age. in the ice age, we're now in the Carlson age, right? The NHL is different now. Like all the previous rules are basically out the window.

So, but this is generally a time of year. Like one of the things I always hear whenever I make my calls at this time of year is, you know, I want to see what I got. I don't need to do anything right now. I want to see what I've got. Now, maybe that'll change because I agree with you. He's a heck of a goalie, and we all saw what he did last year in the Olympics. But this is not a time of year where a lot of people feel pressure to do things.

Like, you know, another example is, you know, look at Nekisha in Carolina. I think, you know, he would love to have a new contract in a settled situation right now, and we'll see what happens. But the hurricanes, especially since they just won a Stanley Cup, they don't have to do anything. Right. And so it's always like,

you know, it takes two to tango. And, you know, Hello Buck's like, I want this done now. And the jets are like, we'll wait. And the other teams can be like, we don't feel pressure right now.

Same thing with Nikitian. He would love to get, that's done now and the hurricanes can be like we don't feel pressure and other teams could be the same way like at this time of year players want to play their bodies are wired a certain way it's you know it's like Kyle like for us and our jobs our first exhibition games are this weekend mine Saturday years is what Monday at the hockeyville and Torre Rivier it's like okay it's time to get back to work, right? I'm in work mode. Players are like, I'm in training camp mode. If you're not in a training camp, it's weird. You're uncomfortable. You're unhappy. You don't feel right.

Your wife is like, when are you getting out of the house already? I can't stand you here anymore. It's been two months. Go away. Are you speaking from experience? Not speaking from any personal experience or anything like that. but you know that's that's where you are right now is it this is this is probably the least pressure time of year for managers but it's it's for a player it's it doesn't feel right to be home right now I just think you talk about now the Carlson era we're in I mean one of the top goaltenders out there at eight and a half

no signing bonus is the rest of the way. Yeah. It's pretty attractive. Yep. Okay. So that's the Hallibuck situation. What about the Dylan Larkin situation in Detroit? So he's not on the ice right now, not because he's not reporting to training camp,

but because he's got an injury of his own that he's working through. He sat up there alongside interim GM, Sean Horcoft, on Thursday. He tried to be as honest as he could about the situation. but he also was not prepared to go into any real detail of why he made the trade request to begin with and how he feels about where the organization is gone at the top and where they hope to go from this day onward. It just felt uncomfortable. You knew it would be uncomfortable. And it remains another situation without a resolution yet. So I have a theory here. Okay. Would you like to hear it?

Yeah, came all this way. Well, you're going to hear it anyway, whether you like it or not. I think that Dylan Larkin was really disappointed and upset that it got out. And, you know, hey, I broke it. And, you know, I don't know how he feels about that. I haven't had the opportunity to speak to him yet. but, you know, I do know he was really disappointed and upset. It got out.

And as a result, Kyle, he got pounded all summer. Okay? And fans are fans. As long as you don't cross the line, you're allowed to have the reaction that you want. And I think for Dylan Larkin, it was do not pour gasoline on the fire. Okay? The situation is already tough enough. He's still there.

He had the sea ripped off. And then he gets hurt in a training injury. So he's not on the ice. And people are going all over social media with Anthony Stewart's great line torn motivator cuff. Right? So like everything. And I'm not saying that he's faking an injury. I would never do that.

I just remember Anthony Stewart's line It always made me laugh whenever he said it And So everything Is going wrong for him And I actually thought I know a lot of people

Didn't like it I actually thought for Larkin If I was in his shoes The more I thought about it The more I thought it was a good strategy Don't There are fans are already mad enough, don't pour gasoline on the fire.

If he's not traded by the start of the season, there's only one thing that he can do, and that's go out there and play the best he can possibly play. Okay? And he already knows that on opening night or the first game of the Red Wings play at home, there's a chance he could get booed and quite heavily. And I just think he said, this is already bad. I'm not making it worse. And if I was in his shoes, I probably would have done the same thing.

Can't help but think of, remember just before Matt Duchesne was traded out of Colorado, you kind of knew in the summer after that previous year that he was looking for a new home and was hoping to be traded by the time camp rolled around and he wasn't. And the first couple of days, it was like, oh, this looks uncomfortable. But I'm with you. If there's one way you're going to play it, don't add any fuel to things. Don't dig where things have already gone.

So we got a voicemail into the thought line this week, Elliot, and it pertains to the Detroit conversation right now. So rather than wait for the thought line segment itself, why don't we loop it in here now? So Dom, you have a cued up. It's Carl from Detroit, as you would well imagine. Hey Elliot, Dom, and Kyle. Carl from Detroit, a longtime wingspan trying to make sense of the organization's off-season.

They just named Sean Horcoff interim GM. And I was wondering, is this because they have to have someone as GM to sign a player? Can anyone in an organization sign a player to a contract? Just confused as a why they waited two months to name them interim. Thanks. And keep up the great work. Okay, Carl, by the way, to answer your question, Carl, there is something that you have to file with the leave to say who is in charge of making your decisions. That does exist.

So I don't know who it was for Detroit all summer because you know what it is. It was like that whole crazy Lindrosse trade where he got traded to two teams 30 years ago, Kyle. if you have something filed with the league, they know that, okay, this is the person that you have listed with us as making your hockey decisions. So if this person's name is on this deal,

it's done. And if this other person's name is on the deal, well, too bad because this guy is the guy you're noted to have in charge. So yes, there is something like that. The other thing I do believe, Carl is that there is a natural order to things. And when a season starts, you have to have

somebody in charge. An organization, even if it's an interim person, an organization needs to know that there is somebody in charge. I think athletes expect it. I think coaches expect it. I think fans expect it. You have to be able to say that this is the person who on some level is making our decisions. And I don't think you can go into a season without some kind of general manager interim or not. So I think that's what happened there. You know, I think Sean Horcough has an incredible opportunity. You know, it's very clear from what happened here that Jeff Greenberg, as we had kind of suspected, Kyle, was the leading contender for this job. You know, there were some people who bristled when I used the phrase once that it was his job to lose.

they didn't think that was a fair characterization. So let me just say this. He was the number one contender. And when he didn't take it, they talked to some other people. Do you remember when the whole Nashville search was going on, Kyle? One of the things we talked about on this pod was that there were a lot of people that they interviewed who were really good at one thing,

but they were siloed on their teams. Okay? So they did this, but they didn't do this, this, and this. And I heard Detroit ran into a little bit of that too. And I said it before, and I'll say it again now,

if you're a young executive in this league, and you really want to become a manager, you should be asking your current boss for more opportunities to do more things. Like you can't just be, say, a college scouting person or a pro scouting person or a contract person. You have to be, you know, if you're going to be handed these billion dollar teams, you have to be able to dabble and be smart enough to find people around you can help you do your job. And I have heard for the second time, actually more than the second time, but for the second search,

that one of the challenges here is that a lot of the up-and-coming young, executives who names appear in a lot of our podcasts and articles, they're silo. They don't have a skill set across a wide enough group of things. So if I could give that some advice to young executives who want to become managers, you have to be able to do more things. I think Detroit ran into that. You know, I'll also say this, the Redmond's disputed something I said on the podcast and Christopher Illich did an interview with one of the Detroit columnist and he said everybody we had permission for we interviewed so let me just say that the Red Wings disputed that for the record um but I think Horcalf is an incredible opportunity

here he has the advantage he is in the chair he has a chance to show he can do what nobody else can do right now and that is show that he is capable of the job And, you know, I'll say this. When this whole search was going on, there were a lot of rumors, okay? And as you know, some rumors are true and some rumors are not true. And one of the rumors was that nobody with an Eisenman connection was going to get this job. They wanted a different kind of approach or idea or skill set. And, you know, that world doesn't always work that way.

Here's somebody with an obvious Eisenman connection who, who gets the chance. And if I was Sean Horcough, I would be like, I'm proving to you that I am the right person for this. This is my job and I'm never letting go of it. Now, I think the interesting thing here is Edvinson has shown up for camp.

He's not signed. The rumor in the summer was the Red Wings wanted to sign to a bridge deal. Okay? You know, we're going to find out pretty quickly what does, what are the Red Wings willing to do? What does Forkaw? There's a lot of questions out there about what authority of Horikov has. Well, if Edwinson wants a turn deal, we're going to find out how the Red Wings feel about that. You know, the deadline for the new deal is past this week to bring it to UFA.

So now, if you're the Red Wings and you want to keep the brain kid, can't do eight years, you can do seven, but what does 70? It probably means it's a higher Aav than eight was, right? Yes. I really believe the structure, like there's more consequence from one CBA to the next, more so than how many years you can do at the maximum. It's a big one. There's no question about it. Like that's how Anaheim got cut. We'll get to him in a second,

but that's how Anaheim got cut or Goce's AV down to 13.5. Because Henry Samuel is willing to write 18.5 million dollar checks. Sadly, not to me. No, you got your own. You can definitely not mention us on the same sentence. You know, that's the thing. And so we're going to see what Horcalf and the Red Wings feel. You know, the thing that was most interesting to me was Horcoff said this is not going to be a rebuild.

That was newsworthy because, well, first of all, it's news early as a statement. But also another one of the things flying around this summer was kind of like the Jets with Helibuck. The Red Wings were not willing to make a Larkin deal that wasn't for immediate help. And again, another one of the stories that was kind of going around was that Iserman had warned the Red Wings and ownership that if they traded for Lark, they traded Larkin, they would probably not win the deal in the short term. It would be for more longer term help. And I don't think the Red Wings like that. So, you know, there's there's a lot here to figure out, but I look at it for Horikoff, who's really wanted to be a GM, a great opportunity.

You're in the chair. Don't let anyone take your chair. You can have the broken one with only two legs in the corner, but you can't have mine. The nice tall leather back reclining. that's the chair you don't want to give up. I know you've been really big on the contract of Moritz-Sider being one of the best in the league, especially with the new landscape now.

I mean, that Lucas Raymond one looks not too shabby either, given when it was signed. And I think all of that feeds into the reason of, yeah, rebuild should be off the table with those guys locked up with term. They've been close. They've been close.

I know it's been frustrating there in Detroit. Brutal division. Brutal division. I know. I know it's been a frustrating. Hardest one in the league this year. Frustrating few years for Wings fans. But don't throw in the towel yet.

Just keep trying to build. Well, what would you say? The hardest division, is it going to be the... Depth-wise? I think Atlantic or? I think Atlantic. Central, I feel, is more top-heavy. Top-heavy?

Top-heavy, yeah, that's fair. But... The other lines fans, they get mad all the time. I mean, Denver, it's such a beautiful weather. Why are you so angry all the time whenever someone says the central isn't that good? I don't know. The altitude is just the oxygen level. That's great.

I love going to Denver. I think Canadian Thanksgiving weekend Toronto's there on the Saturday night. Oh, yeah? We get an early season of Denver trip. I got to say there was, I flew to Denver to go to Phoenix this week from Edmonton. and someone said to me, I was meant to tell you, someone said to me, is this your first time in Colorado since your trip to Fort Collins? And I go, that was Kyle, not me.

Colorado Springs, wherever it was. Grand Junction? Grand Junction. That's where I was. Fort Collins. Colorado says, Grand Junction. I can't. The guy said, the guy got it right, but I said, no, that was Kyle.

I was like, wow, I'm impressed you to remember that. Yes. Yes, that was, what a diversion. It's a good story in the end. Okay, so you touched on some of the contracts that got in before the horn at midnight on Tuesday night, right? Gochier being one, Drake Batherson, the biggest contract in Senators' franchise history.

The capitals were doing work with Justin Sourdiff and Ryan Leonard as well. And anyway, there was a lot of action between our podcast dropping Monday morning and midnight on Tuesday. Do you want to get into Goce a little bit more? You know, I mean, Henry Samuel is a guy who does not like attention. He doesn't, but he's a great owner.

I really believe that there was a time, I believe, this summer that Gocee, I don't think he was ever going to catch Carlson at 18, but I do think the goal was to get him over Barard, which was, you know, 15, right? and Bedard yeah yeah so like I do think that and when the moment

the number I heard at 135 I immediately said Kyle what's the structure that was the first thing I thought of and I believe that after the first year the signing bonuses are broken up

like I think he gets like two or three of them a year like Eric Carlson for example his signing bonuses two million three times during the season. I'm under the impression that that's the way Gochase will go, but Samwelley wrote an $18.6 million check the other day. And, you know, it has been a really hard summer for the Ducks.

And I still, and, you know, they still have a massive contract. I think that they're going to have to deal with. and back at Seneca come next summer if they want to. So it's not over yet. But, you know, like you can't, you cannot question that owner's desire to win. No, not at all. And this doesn't pertain to Gochi, of course,

because he's been in the league a couple years, 41 goals last year, but some of the others, big contracts, big total value for players that have under 100 games experience. seeing more and more of a trend of that. I mean, you kind of go back to... James Merle was the one to point out.

It's the biggest contract for a guy under 100 games in NHL history. I didn't know that until James said it. I mean, you think about like Matthias Samuelson a few years back with Buffalo, that was like, whoa, big term for a guy that had barely played in the league. I just wonder, as we sit here in 2026 and think about all the different ways that analytics and that world is making an impact on the game, that's got to be one of them, isn't it? Like, you can't tell me that there isn't internal data

that teams have on their own guys that go, the lights start flashing and say, hey, look, our internal projections say, and this player playing in this environment with how we like to play, like there's a 30 goal score on the horizon. There's a this on the horizon. So why don't we take the bet now?

Do they all pay off? Nobody bats 1,000. but nobody batted a thousand, the old way, when you waited until a guy was 30 before you backed up the brinkstruck for him. So I like the strategy. There's no, like I, you know my feeling, Kyle, and that is that if you really have a person you believe is going to be a core player on your team,

the money is not going down. Sign them up for as long as you can. Like that's, like, I'll tell you this about Ryan Leonard. So I looked at that deal with somebody over like, are you kidding me? And I said, I said, Ryan Laird, maybe in the next two or three years, he might not be a $10.5 million player. But I'm betting for at least the back half of that contract. He is well above a $10 million player.

Now maybe, you know, some people aren't going to like that and they're going to say, well, you should pay them based on their worth. To me, it's always like a, it's a bit like a seesaw. sometimes they get you but if this kid is as good as I think he is and I think he is he's there's going to be the last at least the last four years of that deal he's going to look like a bargain

and that's the bet that Washington is taking here now because of when he entered the NHL he didn't have offer sheet availability it's like Cutter Gochan Nikitian but look they saw what his agents just did

he's represented by the caters you have to look at it differently now. I mean, and I think the key thing you point out there is that they know the player better than anyone else. Now, will all these deals turn out to be good deals?

No. And you know, it is kind of funny that the NHL changed the rules and a bunch of teams rushed to get them done. The same thing happened before their lockout in 2012, too. There were a couple of signings. I think Tyler Sagan was one.

I think Evander King was another. They rushed them in before the lockout hit that year. And so it always happens. But, you know, it's interesting. There's a couple of things here that are going to be key to watch. Number one, the money is not infinite. It's 50-50. So I'll tell you, so one agent said to me, and one GM said to me,

we're talking about Newhook. So Newhook took a four-year deal in Montreal at five and a half. And the agent the GM said to me, they said, New Hook's smart. He is looking around. He's saying, you know, he's probably like he'll fill in on top lines from time to time. But generally, he's like a middle six guy, right? Eventually, these middle six guys, they're going to get squeezed. They're going to get squeezed.

And the fourth line guys are going to get squeezed. You know, if the money is going this way for the top guys, not everybody can get paid. You can only go 50-50. So who's going to get squeezed? Alex Nealhawk and somebody created both him and his agent for recognizing this. Alex Nealhook's looking at. Someone said to him, Alex,

if the cat doesn't keep growing and it flattens out, are you going to take that risk? And he just said, I'll take the 22 and a half million or 22 million. I think it's a really smart play. And, you know, I also had some people who said to me, everybody's convinced the cap is going to keep going up and up and up. And if the NHL hits a home run with their US TV deal, they will.

But I've had a couple teams say to me that not enough attention is being paid to what is happening. at the regional level. And they think that is real salary cap ramifications. So on the television front, you're saying? Yes, yes. Like, if you look at the states, some of those teams are not getting the regional TV deals. Like, the regional landscape is changing.

And the NHL has to step in this year to produce games. But it's happening in baseball. It's happening in basketball. And, you know, the, and also too, like, and we're starting to see this in the NFL a little bit, although the NFL is kind of God. You know, people are saying, I'm subscribing to too many streaming services, right? And so there are some people who are like, this is one indicator here that not everyone's paying enough attention to. So, for example, there was a story in the sports business journal last week, and they were talking about the NBA salary cap, okay, for next year, 2027, 28. And in the story, there's a Twitter account I follow called TV Grim Reaper.

It's very uplifting. But this person whoever's behind it does post some interesting stuff. and they were talking about, and this is what they wrote about next year's salary cap in the NBA. The latest national TV contract was supposed to usher in an era of 10% annual salary cap raises more than enough to cover the 8% raises in contracts given to most star players. Instead, the local TV market crashed so hard that the annual raise was barely half that a year ago, 5.2% and was forecast to be similar in 2728, 5.5%. The projected raise for 2728 is now 6.7%, but still a far cry from the maximum 10%, but closer to the raises in player contracts. So, Kyle, that's not a death blow by any

stretch of the imagination, but it is different than what they thought. And I have had several people across the NHL say to me that if there is one thing they worry about in this league with it comes to the cap it's that that the regional collapses in the states that have affected baseball and basketball could also hurt hockey and the cap so just something to keep an eye on yeah we're already seeing the ramifications that as you say with some of the markets that are having to shift to different outlets to get the regional packages to the fans and there's fees attached to that and that's life consuming entertainment in today's day and age. So just getting back to this new world of, I guess, the CBA, how contracts can be done up,

the max term, all of that. Where does that leave? Adam Fentilly, another RFA unsigned. As we record this on Thursday night, I'm led to believe that isn't any closer. right now it's sensitive at its most sensitive because training camp has begun, he's not there. And bonus is really on the warpath now. He's mad about PTO guys, only getting two games.

Actually, I kind of agreed with his point here that if you're there on a PTO and you're trying to make a team, you should get to play more than two games. I think he's right about that one. He called out guys for being out of shape, although we wouldn't say who they were. And that's a stunner. And now we've got this.

And, you know, again, nobody's really talking about it right now. I've just heard that Fantilli's representation and he's represented by Pat Prasin, they have had a target in mind for some time. And they just haven't really budge for it. that and I assume it was opposed Carlson it was a Carlson era target and to this point Columbus is not there so that's what I've heard

okay just go back to bonus's comments about the PTOs it was interesting being at the Saddle Dome on Thursday and in the past when training camp preseason was longer you know those first week or so the practice groups you kind of had and I think most teams would have

done it. You had a mixture of each group. You had some NHL guys, some NHL guys, maybe some junior players that you were still keeping around for the first little bit and they would get one or two preseason games all throughout the different groups. I walked into the Saddle Dome Thursday morning. There was two groups and one was the NHL group plus Chase Harrington, a second round pick from this past June who's made enough of an impression that it looks like he's going to get at least a preseason in. Anyway, you got the NHL group and then everybody else. was the other group. And you just like you feel for those tweener guys

that maybe you get a chance to start on the line with some NHL players for the first preseason game or two, you make a good impression, you give something for the management to think about, to maybe make the team. I suppose there's still going to be opportunities to do that. But I just thought watching that there on Thursday, that for players in those situations,

It's almost like you come into camp and you feel, unlike in years past, you're already 10 miles behind everybody else trying to earn a job. Yeah. It's one of the realities now. Yeah. I mean, look, we knew this was going to happen. You know, when it first came up, we were basically told this was going to happen. It's one of those things, honestly, Kyle, that just not enough people cared about.

to stop. But now we will see some real world applications in people who are affected by it. Right. Okay. A couple more things here before the final thought. Did you see Nikita Kutrov's comments about the state of the game? Before I get fired by Sportsnet, I'm getting that guy

on the pod. Okay. I'm glad you said this. Because I also want to put that out into the world. And I've let's the lighting you know. Before, yes. I've told, sorry, I've told the story before I went out doing with the All-Star game in Toronto, and I said, will you come on our podcast?

And he said, I don't like podcasts. Like, just a total dead-dang answer. We know that he does not love to do media at the best of time, so he really wouldn't like dealing with us. But it is like, my, it is my objective now. Like it's like, okay, what do you want to still do in your career? That's got to be at or near the top of the list.

My vision, Elliot, you and I sitting in a film room with Kutrov and we've got just a reel of some of his highlights from plays in the offensive zones, vision on the ice and the power play, the move when he does the fake shot to Braden point in the slot, anything. picking pucks off the half wall. And I just tell us what you're thinking. Like an elite quarterback sitting in the film room with them and saying, what do you see on this play? What do you see on that play? I think it would be phenomenal to watch, to listen to. He's such a fascinating character.

You know, there's only one thing. I don't like that you said that. You know why? Why? You know what Dave Randar's nickname is? What? Content thief. Since when?

I just did it. I just gave it to him. Because I know Randorf. He's going to hear this and he's like, we're doing it. Man. Dave's a nice guy. Hopefully he can and he's a loyal listener to the pod. So you know he's going to hear this. That's why I said it.

I can't wait until this year, one player scores. a highlight real goal against Tampa and skates by Kuturov and says that was the dumbest goal I've ever scored. It was like a page out of the torts book. It's a young dumb league. When he decides he's going to talk, he's the best man.

That's it because when he goes, yeah, it's fast, but it's dumb. I'm just going, tell me more. Like I want to see the world through your eyes on the ice. It's so good. He gets out there and he's like, oh, I'm going to entertain these people today. You know, there's a lot of lightning fans, you know, his contract and, you know, the lightning, they make it tough on us, right? Like, not a lot gets out of there.

I would also, my guess on this one is that the post-carls in the world has changed the dynamic there. Because if you look at Julian Breezeblaw, he historically has gotten a lot of his important business done early. And I don't think that in his eyes, Nikita Kucharov is any less important now. And I just think in a post-Carlson world, it's probably a higher number than even for Kujrov. It's probably a higher number than, like, Tampa will probably have to get there. Like if he has any kind of year, they'll just have to bite the bullet and do it. but you know they've always been able to get guys to take less because it's Tampa right and even now that less has been stretched so that that's my with theory and window into this

yes and Breezeboe himself even said you would love to be able to come out and say this week that the deal's done but that is not the case also wanted to shout out Madhwe Mischkov for doing that press conference in English, owning everything that went wrong last year and talking about what is, where his mind is at coming into this season. I just think, look, we've had one day of players on ice. We haven't had a preseason game yet. If I'm a Flyers fan and I'm looking for a sign to say,

things are going to be better with a young player that we have so much hope for after what we saw last season, that was about the one perfect scenario you could ask for for how things to start. I thought that was credit to him for doing that. I'm with you on that. I think that's like it's a great sign.

If I was a Flyers fan, I would be really excited about that. Just the fact he came out, he did that interview, talked about, you know, he was 30 pounds heavy last year. You know, because not only is he doing the interview,

you in his second language and getting through it. But he's also addressing something that sent him up for a lot of mockery last year, right? Like he's not running away from it. So he's talking in his second language about something that was like an internet joke or a social media punching target last year. I think there's really something to be admired about that. I agree with you. I thought it was, that was a great press.

There's been a lot of good press conferences this week. that was one of the best ones for that reason. Yes. Okay, let's get to the final thought. So the Toronto Maple Leafs kick off their preseason schedule on Saturday and an old familiar. They played two at the same time. One on the good telecom and one on the evil telecom. Oh, split squad between the networks too.

Yeah, yeah. Anyway, their game at home, they will be an old friend. familiar face on the bench. Yes. So the Maple Leafs, so Brian Papineau, I think he first wanted the organization as an assistant equipment manager with the old American hockey league New Market Saints, I think in 1986. And in 1988, he moved to the Maple Leaf. He eventually became the equipment manager for 2,500 games. I think he was in Toronto from 1988 until 2022. You know, Maple Leaf fans will remember a highlight when Nick Borchewski's

Ford, the Game 7 overtime winner against Detroit in 1993, there's a shot of the bench and someone spraying a water bottle. That's Brian Papineau. And he was really tight with Matt Sundeen. And

you know, Papano is going to be on the bench on Saturday night in Toronto and they're going to honor him. So, I think it's a great thing. You know, anybody who's around hockey teams and players know that equipment people, trainers, the sort of the staff around there are kind of the unsung heroes.

The players know how valuable they are, but sometimes all of us out in the world don't. And when I heard that they were putting them on the bench to honor them and bring them back and just give them one more night, I wasn't surprised that it would happen under Sundin. and I think it's just a great thing to do for somebody who gave them a lot of great service. Yes, really nice touch.

You all out there think that Elliot always knows what's going on, the equipment staff, they really know what is always going on year to year. They know we're all the skeletons, sir. It's like the old Cold War spy movies. If you ever watch the old movies, the KGB guy was always the, custodian. You would think the custodian was not important. That was the KGB guy. And that's like

the equipment guys. Some people don't think they're important. They are truly important. By the way, I know some people who have been watching them. I'm really, I'm really excited to see Gavin McKenna. I know it's exhibition. I want to see this guy play. He looks really good. Really good. Yes. Sounded like a good frame of mind too to kick off

training camp sitting alongside Austin Matthews and John Tavares there at the podium. Did not look out of place there and certainly not out of place the first few laps up and down the ice to begin training camp. Okay, that was a final five. By the way, he had one of the lowest moments of his NHL career

this week, unfortunately. What's that? Interviewed by Dave Amber? Yeah, she had to do an interview with David Hammer. How did I know that was the answer? Welcome to the NHL, kid. That's great. Too bad.

Too bad about this. Yeah. Well, okay, that was the final thought. Why don't we take our first break after all that? Good news block. Good way to get started. Thoughtlines on the other side. You're listening to 32 Thoughts, the podcast.

Well, come on back. Time now for the thought line presented by BetMGM Make it legendary. Elliot, the floor is yours. Yeah, so I wanted to thank first of all on Instagram follower, Greg Watson.

You remember how the last podcast we were talking about goalie goals and assists? So we were wondering, did Martin Bauder with two goals ever assist on someone's first NHL goal and therefore have more goals than a skier whose goal he assisted on.

Right. And according to Greg, and I looked it up, the answer is yes. Nice. On January 9th, 2011. Oh. The New Jersey Devils scored an empty net goal. goal in beating Tampa 5 to 3, Martan Broder and Ilya Kovalchuk set up Nick Palmieri for the first goal of Paul Mary's NHL career.

Wow. At the time, Broder already had two goals. That is great. So thank you very much, Greg. For sending that to us, you have now won a free internship with SportsNetStats. Kyle will contact you and tell you how to do it. Exactly. Just need your credit card number and your passport, and we'll have you all set up.

And other assorted banking information. Yes, that's right. That is so, I'm so glad the answer was yes. Yes, fantastic. On his first goal. I also got a question from one NHL executive who listened to the thought line last week and said, do you actually listen to the questions that people ask you? And I said, occasionally, why do you ask?

And he said on the expansion draft question, you gave a correct answer, but it was not what the questioner asked. he asked what if you had so many no move clauses on your team that you could not make everyone available that you had to for an expansion draft and I was like that's what he asked and he goes yes I guess I really wasn't paying attention in that particular case and the answer is you'd have to trade for somebody

that's what you would have to do you would have to acquire you like you can't not fill out the expansion draft requirements. And there have been situations in the past, particularly in the first expansion drafts, way back when Florida and Tampa and Anaheim were coming into the league, there were teams that traded for goalies so that they would have a goalie to expose an expansion draft.

That did happen. So that's a better answer to your question. We also talked about players who agreed in their new, contracts that they would be exposed in expansion drafts. And I can't remember which listener brought the name up. I forgot. But there was one listener who reminded me that one of those players is Mike Matheson, the Montreal Canadiens.

He has agreed. Right, right. Okay. And then I would be guilty of listening to the question, but not listening hard enough to your answer last week. Well, that's perfectly understandable. Yeah. Okay, I know you would understand.

All right, let's get to this edition's batch from the thought line. Thank you, Griffin Porter, for sending these all in. We begin with Adam, a lone devil's fan on Long Island. All right, Adam. Dear 32 Thoughts crew, I was listening to the newest podcast where during a question about Connor Hellebuck, Elliot made a comment about how Hellebuck did not qualify for the number three goalie designation and that there were special rules about the position. That comment made me really curious

because I didn't know there were any rules or regulations about the third goalie since teams don't run three goalies very often. Could Elliot elaborate a bit more on this topic? How does a player qualify or lose qualification for being a third goalie and what kinds of other special rules apply to that position? I appreciate you guys and I hope it's another awesome season in the NHL and on the pod. Adam, I probably could have said it a bit better.

Like if you just have three regular goalies on your roster, you can do that. Okay. Like for example, Buffalo, they have Lucan, they have Lyon, they have Lyon, and they have Ellis. That's three NHL goalings on their roster, all legit. What I was referring to and what I think the question was referring to is the new CBA rule that, you know, it used to be you had the fan in the stands who would come out. like Dave Ayers. Mm-hmm.

And he would be the emergency goalie for both teams in a game. Scott Faucer, the famous one from the Blackhawks. That's over now. And basically, each team now has their own eBug. And the rules are that this, so if you have two goalies dressed for a game, or you have three goalies on your roster, and you suffer enough injuries that you need this extra goalie, there are some rules.

One of them as they could never have played in a regular season or playoff game on a regular contract. So Hallow Buck immediately is disqualify. You must have fewer than 80 games of professional hockey experience total. Hellebuck would not qualify. I think also you can't play professional hockey within the past three seasons. So if you are the eBug for a game, Hellebuck could not be that. Now, if the Jets wanted to carry three goalies,

like Hellebock, Skinner, and Millich or something like that, who's in their American hockey league system, they could do that. He just can't be that new CBA mandated eBug. He doesn't qualify. Right. Well, Adam, thank you for following up on that. Matt from St. Louis. We're seeing more players and teams mutually agreeing to terminate their contracts.

I have an unlikely hypothetical that I'm curious if there are specific rules against. If a player and team mutually agree to terminate their contract, can they simply re-sign a new contract with each other after the contract is terminated? Let's say a team really needs a few million in cap space to sign another player and goes to a veteran who has made a lot of money in his career and asks if they could set up. a new lower AAB contract or a star player making significantly less than his value due to the rising cap and tells the team, let's get a new contract or trade me. I know the incentives will rarely, if ever, be aligned and contract termination needs to be mutually exclusive and agreed to, but want to know if there is a specific rule against this. Dom, if the boys ever make it to St. Louis, I want to let you know you are invited, even if Kyle and Elliot do not want you there.

I think it's actually the people of St. Louis that wouldn't want him there. Well, we know one person does. That's right. Matt, you are a gentle soul. So the closest thing I can remember this is in 2019, the Calgary Flames had Mark Stone's brother, Michael, under contract. And they bought them out in that summer. And then right at the eve of training camp, they re-signed them to a lower number, $700,000. So Matt, it's not exactly what you suggested.

And I do think this for a termination, the NHL would certainly fight it harder. but there is, if not an exact comparable, there is at least some level of precedent. But I bet you they would fight that because they hate these terminations, especially if signing bonuses have been given. They haven't stopped them, but they slowed them down. Okay.

Brandon from West Virginia. Hello, gentlemen, and Elliot. I love that that hasn't gone away. I get a good laugh out of that. I am Brandon emailing from West Virginia. I've been listening for a couple years now and really enjoy the podcast to you and your team puts together.

I was rewatching and enjoying the clip of Elliot's question to Sidney Crosby about a belt. And notice that before the question is asked, Elliot admits he's worried that someone was playing a prank on him. Have there ever been prank questions fed to you in the past that weren't aired.

If so, are there any you can share with us? Thank you again for everyone's hard work on your end, and let's go Islanders. All right. Brandon, so the closest thing I remember, and it's the reason I asked that question the way I did, was, and I don't know if we aired it, we might not have, Kyle.

I don't remember, but when Luke Shan was a member of the National Predators, We brought him, he came in Toronto and we did an interview at the hotel and I was asking around and Shane Donne I asked Shane Donne about Luke Shen

and he said that he has a certain karaoke song that he really loves and so I asked the question and Luke Shen looked at me like I was a complete moron like a complete moron I think you did I remember that and so like first of all

it's not out of the realm of possibility that I am a complete moron, but in that particular case, Donne had totally submarined me. So I'm a little more paranoid now. Like, I will never give up the source on that for the belt. But when someone told me about it, I was like, you're kidding. Like, there's no way that's true. And they said, believe me or not, I'm telling you. I'm telling you it's true. And it was obviously it was true, but I was worried. I was getting submarine just like Shane Donne did a few years ago. Did he admit it afterwards? Yes. Oh, he loved it. He thought it was great. He was so proud of himself. Yeah. I could just, I could see it. That's excellent. Okay, one more here. And it comes from handsome Rick. He's back. Yes.

Hello, handsome Elliot and regular Kyle. Yes. This is true. This is the truest thing that's ever been said on the podcast. Not to be confused with Diet Kyle, Kyle, Kyle Zero, and Wild Cherry Kyle. Just regular Kyle.

Okay. Thanks for reading my question on your podcast, Handsome Rick says. I wouldn't want to send you my picture because I don't want to be held responsible if your computers just suddenly burst into flames. I suffer from a rare disease called Handsomitis. It's something that I had to deal with my entire life.

Keep up the good work. It's a burden. And I look forward to listening to guys for the upcoming season. At least he explained why he's not sending in a photo. For those who can deliver, much is asked. Yeah. Yeah. What are the AGMs like,

when all the handsome folks get together? You and Rick and everyone else part of the group. Sounds like a great club. That's like the Giants when the San Franciscoer Giants come to play. That's right. When the handsome jets go to play the New York Jets. You need for breakfast? Yeah, the big handsome breakfasts followed by the handsome picnic.

That's excellent. Thank you for that, Rick. Elliot appreciates it. Okay, that's another edition of the thought line in the bag. 1833-3-3-1-3-1-3-2. That's still the number if you'd like to call and leave a voicemail or you can do it the old-fashioned way and email us at 32thoughts at Sportsnet.ca.

One final break and we'll wrap up this edition on the other side. 32 Thoughts the podcast will conclude after this. So just like that, another edition of 32 Thoughts, the podcast in the books, and just like that, the NHL preseason, gets underway in earnest tomorrow. One of those games you can see on the network at 7 Eastern 4 Pacific Time, the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Montreal Canadiens. We mentioned earlier on, there's a split squad between the two.

The game in Montreal will be on our air, Sportsnet 1, to be exact, at 7 ET. I know some people have been asking already about music for this upcoming season. It was so great last year to be able to feature a variety of different Canadian art. artists throughout the season at the end of our podcast. We plan on doing that again this year. We just got to get a few more ducks in a row. And hopefully by the time the regular season gets going or even before that, we'll have some Canadian tracks to play for you at the end of most, if not all episodes. So thanks for those that have inquired, have sent suggestions in already. We appreciate it all. It's become a really fun aspect of doing this each and every week.

that have yourselves a great weekend as you know we'll talk to you again on monday