32 Thoughts: The Podcast - The NHL Adapts On The Fly, Plus Jordan Subban: Hockey Player And Amplifying Entrepreneur

Episode Date: January 8, 2021

Some NHL training camps aren’t off to a good start thanks to COVID — the Stars are dealing with an outbreak in their organization and the Blue Jackets have cancelled practice “out of an abundance of caution and in accordance with NHL Covid-19 protocols.” Jeff and Elliotte discuss how the league will handle the positive cases, if we’ll […]

let's freshen it up. We've got new info. Freshen it up. Okay. We'll count us down to 16 minutes. All right. I got something to choose. Okay.

Let's get this going here. Okay. Elliot, hopefully we won't have to start any more podcasts off like this, but this is the news of the day, which has been the story of the last 12 to 18 months. And it is COVID-19. It is the Dallas Stars. It is the Columbus Blue Jackets. And Elliot, we'll start with the

Dallas Stars, the NHL who handles all announcements related to COVID-19 saying six Dallas Stars players and two staff members have confirmed positive tests for the COVID-19 virus. We'll get to Columbus here in a couple of moments. But this was the information we were greeted with this morning as we found out that Dallas had canceled their practice for the day, and this is the reason. Look, I think that it's a smack in the face of reality, but it's something we all had

to expect was going to happen. You take a look, college football, their schedule got thrown into chaos. The NFL, they got all their games in, but they had to move them around. And now there's a playoff game this weekend where the Cleveland Browns won't have their head coach. The NBA on Thursday night had a player removed during the game.

He wasn't playing Seth Curry. He was wearing a mask, but he was removed during the game after they wasn't playing Seth Curry. He was wearing a mask, but he was removed during the game after they found out he tested positive. And the player who was sitting next to him on the bench, Joel Embiid, says he's now going to self-quarantine for 14 days because he has a young baby. We saw the World Series where Justin Turner, during the final game, the news broke that he had a positive test.

I mean, anybody who thought the nhl was going to get away unscathed it wasn't going to happen but it's still jarring in the moment and you know we should just mention columbus for a second too i mean they had 15 guys not skating and the other thing too jeff we don't know is in dallas they announced six positives among players and two among staff and columbus as we tape this, they haven't announced anything. But the other thing you're worried about is the contact tracing. How many people are exposed? And how many cases are you worried about that you don't have but you could have?

You know, that's what's got the NHL watching these two particular situations. And that's why, in a lot of ways, the announcement with Dallas was six players and two particular situations. And that's why in a lot of ways, the announcement with Dallas was six players and two staff members. I don't think anyone should be surprised if those numbers grow, even just for the Dallas Stars. And Deputy Commissioner Bill Daley

was doing the radio rounds this week. And one of the things that he did point out is like, look, we're leaving enough runway here to account for things like games being postponed. And the Dallas Stars are supposed to open up against the Florida Panthers next week, but they will not start their 2021 season any earlier than Tuesday, January the 19th now. And if you look at it, Jeff, if you've read through the protocols and the NHL has made those public so anybody can read them. You look at it and it says that if it's asymptomatic, it's 10 days. So we're recording this podcast and releasing

it on January 8th. And we know that they won't play before January 19th. That's three games. It's back to back at Florida on the Thursday and Friday, and it was a game in Tampa Bay on the 17th that are currently affected, and the plan is to reschedule all those games. So basically what the NHL is saying is it's a 10-day timeout for the entire team and organization as indicated in our protocols. You mentioned the Columbus Blue Jackets, and that's the other team that was affected by this today with players being held out.

And immediately you think of people that already have health complications and Max Domi's name comes to mind right away. He was held out, precautionary, and you can understand why. You know, Columbus is another situation here. Dallas may be the story that the NHL is commenting on right now. And the Whopper with six players and two staff members. But here's the Columbus Blue Jackets as well. And I don't want to sound too cynical, although this is going to sound pretty cynical.

I don't think this is the last time we're going to talk about this with teams. Oh, I don't think that's cynical at all. I think it's realistic. Like I said, you look at all the sports that have tried to play through this in non-bubble scenarios. Major League Baseball, NFL, college football, basketball did the bubble, successful. Now look at the issues they're having. NHL did the bubble, successful. Now look at the issues it's having. The other thing, too, is you're trying to get a feel for how the NHL handles all this. Nashville, on the first day of practice, I think they had five players unfit to play. They still practiced.

Colorado, I think, had five players unfit to play. They still practiced. Columbus, all we know is they've had 15 players unfit to play because 21 did, practiced, and the team is still practicing. Dallas, with eight positive tests announced, they're not. So you're starting to get the picture of how this is going to be handled because the NHL sets a case-by-case basis right so I think there's a big difference obviously between say having eight positive tests and maybe having

fewer positive tests but what the contact tracing is and I think the other thing you have to look at is you know those players who didn't practice on the first day, obviously they have it before the team shows up as a group. I know there's informal skates, but it's not as the full big group necessarily, right? Now that you have the full big groups together, if you do have an outbreak, I think it's going to be tougher to say unfit to play. Just in terms of who's all contact together, who's traveling together, who's wearing a mask, who isn't. It's such a big challenge, and it's why everybody has to be so diligent. Would the NHL look at bubbles again?

You know, it came up. Players don't want to do it. They really don't want to do it. I understand. Look, we saw some guys not come back. Matt Niskanen walked out of the bubble and said, I can't do this again. And he walked

away from the final year of his deal. We only saw one opt-out. Casey Nelson, who was an American Hockey League contracted player in the Buffalo organization. If you had seen bubbles, I think you would have seen more. The only thing I can really think of, Jeff,

is if it got really bad and they had to preserve the playoffs like Major League Baseball did, would everybody talk about it? I don't know, but to me, it's extremely unlikely that we're going to see bubbles again. Given what we saw today between the Columbus Blue Jackets and the Dallas Stars, what are the questions you have heading into this first weekend of training camp with eyes to a start to the season next Wednesday? Well, I just think that, you know, you have to ask everybody

to be careful away from work. Follow the protocols. Keep yourself isolated. Keep a small group. You know, we start next week going to work. Follow the protocols. Keep yourself isolated. Keep a small group. You know, we start next week going to work. I'm going to be isolating myself from my family. I just think the only thing we can do is ask ourselves to be smart and understand that we

don't control this and it controls us. And that's the only way games are going to be played. If people are as smart as possible. And even then, you know, it's still a challenge. You know, breaking on Hockey Central today, talked about a guy asking like, as a general manager, what would you do?

You're running a team right now in this situation. How would you handle it? There is so much obviously riding on this. And there's so much trust that players have to have with one another uh both at home and on the road to do the right thing and keep themselves protected because the consequences could be grave and he said listen one of the things that i would think about doing right away is i would go further if i were a gm i'd do a buddy system i'd say okay we're on the road you got a buddy and if he screws up you screw up if he gets suspended you get suspended I would check room

check every night curfew which I've never done never let my coach check curfew we just put curfew in so that if a player gets in trouble he's in breach of team rules but we've never checked one night in my whole career and so to, I would be a lot more aggressive, but they have got to be disciplined or this is going to be commonplace. I am curious how the NHL, all these teams, knowing that there's 700 plus players, it's one thing to ask these guys to do the right thing for a couple of weeks, and it's another thing to expect them to do the right thing all the time for a few months like this is a huge challenge for these teams to get these players all on the

same page and doing the right thing to keep themselves and everyone around them healthy well isn't that just life right now jeff like we have to trust each other to do the right kinds of things and not be careless and everybody has to to take certain, you know, depending on where you work or, you know, going to shop for essentials, like everybody has to take chances at some point or another. But another one thing I look at is, you know, I, I just see a responsibility to protect my family and the people I work with. And, uh, that's it. I think that's all you can really do is see the responsibility to protect yourself and the, and the people I work with. And that's it. I think that's all you can really do is see the

responsibility to protect yourself and the, and the people you work with. And we've talked about it before too, Jeff, it's the economics. People don't like to talk about money, but it matters. Yep. And if we don't get out of this soon, more and

more of us are going to be affected that haven't been affected already. This story continues. Yeah. The other story, and there's been speculation about it going on for a while. There's been whispers. There's been talk. And today, Corey Crawford, New Jersey Devils net minder, the team announces he is taking

a leave of absence. Crawford, of course, signing a two-year contract with New Jersey in the offseason. You know, I'm glad we waited on this. I think there were a lot of people chasing it, not just myself. I mean, the Devils fans wanted to know what's going on. I have to tell you, the Devils fans, some of them are really great.

There's a bunch that direct messaged me, what can you find out? You know, they all want to know. They're passionate. We're very lucky. We have very passionate fans in this sport. I think the thing is, is that I'm glad we waited just for the official language.

The word earlier in this week was that he was going to retire. And I don't know if it was injury related or family absence, you know, just absence makes the heart grow fonder and he didn't want to be away from his family. I don't know. And I'm not going to guess.

And we waited because I think everybody wanted to make sure they got it right. And people cautioned me with, about using those particular words. So we now know that it's been announced that it's an indefinite leave of absence. And all I can say is I hope he's okay. And I hope everyone's okay.

And, um, that's it. You know, I, I don't know whether or not he's going to play again. I don't think we and I hope everyone's okay. And that's it. You know, I don't know whether or not he's going to play again. I don't think we really know what his future is, but, you know, you certainly wish him the best and hope everybody's okay. That's all you care about in this moment. Absolutely. Amen to everything you just said.

And it gives us a chance just to have a quick discussion as well, Elliot, on Corey Crawford, the net minder in the NHL. And I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Crawford. Second goaltender taken in that Bonanza 2003 NHL draft, Marc-Andre Fleury goes first overall. And even though it was Antony Yemi who was in net in that first Stanley Cup in this era for the Blackhawks, it was Antony Yemi versus Michael Layton for the Philadelphia Flyersks was antiniemi versus michael layton for the philadelphia flyers in the series where whichever goaltender was going to be the first to make a save that team was going to win uh the stanley cup it was cory crawford like you look at that the this what we

call dynasty era for the chicago blackhawks and listen it's tough to get a headline between behind jonathan taves and patrick kane and patrick sharp and mar Patrick Sharp and Marian Hossa and Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook and Brian Campbell. Like it's a murderer's row of all-stars. But I always felt that Corey Crawford never got his due for being the outstanding netminder that he is. What's your thoughts on, not that I'm trying to wrap up his career, but what are your thoughts on the body of work laid before us from Corey Crawford? Part of that is that, you know, Niemi won the first one, right?

So you're going into a situation where they've already won one before you got there. And I think that always makes it harder. But boy, he was a competitive guy. And that's why I think he fits so well in with that group because he was fiery and he was determined. I'm always going to remember the aftermath of Game 4 of the 2013 Stanley Cup Final.

That was the one where his glove hand fell apart during the game and Boston just beat him over and over to that side and tied that series at two games apiece. And the first thing is we finish our work on the air and then I like to go down to the dressing rooms and cory crawford stood and answered questions in front of his stall in boston that night for close to an hour and you know for those of you who aren't familiar with how this process works the stars of the game will go to the podium and the rest of the players will stay in

the room and you know basically the reporters come at you in waves sometimes it's the first people get there and then they're interviewing somewhere else. The second wave comes in, and then people might be in the other room, and the third wave comes in. It can be often four and five waves. You often answer the same questions many times. And that was a night where Crawford just ate it. He said, I wasn't good tonight, and I have to eat it.

And he answered every question. And I was really impressed with that. He didn't get mad. He didn't it. And he answered every question. And I was really impressed with that. He didn't get mad. He didn't get impatient. He answered every question. And the next day I had an early flight to Chicago and I went to their practice at the United Center and Corey Crawford was on the ice well before practice with Stefan Waite, who was still the goalie coach then in Chicago, now in Montreal.

And he was just going through the drills, pucks and without pucks, just getting everything right. And I was so impressed by that. And I'm sure he's not the only person who's ever done that, but that is the difference between being merely good and great. And when you are a true professional and when you demand the most out of yourself, that's what you do. You go back to the basics and you get yourself ready for the next game. And Chicago won the next two and they won the Stanley Cup. But that's what I always remember was the aftermath of a bad moment on a huge stage.

I was really, really impressed by the way he handled himself after that. I always said, this is a who's elite talent and elite attitude in the way he handled that game four in boston we do wish him the best uh health uh to him uh and uh happiness uh to everybody around him to some of the other news stories of the week elliot what's happening with matthew barzell and the new york islanders so i got a direct message from an Islander fan after the blog this week and he goes you know like you don't have a lot of Islanders notes in there but you know when you do you're always so negative and I wrote back to him I said negative I didn't think there was any anything negative there and he goes well you know you said

that it might not be a long-term deal for Barzell, and they've got a surprise deal for Martin, and Hickey might get traded. And I said, honestly, I don't think any of that's bad, but it's pretty funny. Look, I don't think there's anything negative here with Barzell. I think simply that he wants to be an Islander, and the Islanders want him to be an Islander, both for a long time, and they just might not have the ability to get it done. I think they're trying, but I, and they just might not have the ability to get it done.

I think they're trying, but I just don't know if they have the ability to get it done because of their cap situation. I know there's a lot of questions here about Lonnie and Dubois, and we talked about it on Hockey Central with you the other day. I don't see this as the same situation. I see a player who wants to be there. I see an organization who wants them to be an Islander. I'm just not sure they're going to be able to do it with term right now.

I was going to say, this has to be a bridge contract. Does it, even if they want to do long-term, you're buying some UFA years, uh, and that's going to raise the AAV and outside of making some major moves and maybe Lula Amarillo has some in his hip pocket. I don't know how you do that. Given all the cap commits, not just by way of salary, but by way of term on the Islanders. I look at it this way.

I think there is a desire to try to do it. It's just you have to be able to move money, and it's so hard to move money right now. I think Barzell gets done. I think it's just a matter of when and do they need to wait to get it done. And by wait, I mean until they can go into long-term injury. I wanted to say, so when the note about Martin was in the blog that was a surprise contract,

Arthur Staple of The Athletic, who covers the Islanders so well, he wrote that the four times 1.5, which is what I heard, but was too gutless to write. And then Laura Albanese of Newsday went to practice to get reaction that day. And if you saw the quotes from those guys on that team, they were so thrilled for Martin. Jordan Eberle was one guy I remember was quoted. But to me, that's the hallmark of a good team. No jealousy, no seriously, what the the hell it was all like we are so

happy for this guy and and that to me is a lot about the islanders like this particular group of islanders is bigger than the sum of their parts and it's because they they really embrace each other um i think that that story to me was a lot of the key of why that group of islanders got to the eastern conference final last year. I get it. And it might just be an old school way to think like, oh, he's a good guy in the room. Yeah. Well, they don't flood the room.

Like I understand all that kind of stuff. Like you got to play on the ice, but I still find value in that. Like, honestly, when you're working with, I mean, you've worked at a number of different shops and you've worked with a number of different people. And when someone that everybody likes is removed, the shoulders just slump and it makes it that much harder to come to work. So they could do it and you're a professional

and you show up, but man, hockey seasons are long and you have someone that can be that positive and be that appealing to be with on a day-to-day basis. I don't know, man. For me, and again, this might be a very old-school way to think, I still think that's valuable. I really do.

Provided the player can still play and Matt Martin can still play. I think there's value there. Especially in seasons like this one, like the bubble in the playoffs and this one, which is going to be a weird year and a really challenging year. I agree. You do need that. What's the latest with Patrick line? I'm here.

Aren't I? Yeah. I don't get bothered by that. I really don't get bought. I know some people's noses were out of joint. Like I don't have a problem with that. That's the way he talks. And it's a business relationship,

Jeff. It's like me and you, it's a pure, we don't like each other. It's a pure business relationship. Now look, the jets know how he feels. They've made it clear. Yeah.

But this is a business year. The best thing that Patrick Laine can do is have a monster season, a Rocket Richard trophy season. And if he does that, it benefits the Jets. I think everybody understands that. Unlikely he's traded this year, both because his next contract is a challenge in a flat cap world. And also if he's going to get traded,

he's going to have to go through quarantine somewhere. And I'm not sure how many people are going to want to do that. So he understands that. The other thing I just wanted to mention before we go is Pierre-Luc Dubois. Okay. I've made a billion phone calls on this. There is something here we're not seeing we don't have the full story on this one yet i just it doesn't all add up in what sense

there was this relationship with tortorella challenge at times yes it was but i don't believe that's the full reason i know my quote on Calgary radio last week about the bigger stage is a factor. And I should say this, like when I'm talking about a bigger stage, I'm not only talking about New York. I'm talking about like a bigger hockey stage. I think that is a factor, but it's not the full reason. There's got to be something else there that we're just not seeing. Or there's somewhere in particular he wants to play. don't know i just look at this story i got asked about it like 50 times this week of course because it's a big story and i'm not satisfied with everything i know and don't know

about it yet it's one of those stories we've talked about this you ask what don't i know and i just think there's something here that i look at see we we don't know this full story yet okay so elliot's gonna do his best hansel and Gretel over the weekend and follow the breadcrumbs and see where this thing leads. I don't know if it's, I've tried. I don't know if it's going to get me everything yet. I don't know. We do know this about you, Elliot. And we'll change the name of the podcast, by the way, to Contractual Obligation, which is our relationship, as you mentioned.

But you will try to get to the bottom of it. Okay, Elliot. but you will try to get to the bottom of it. Okay, Elliot, I want to get into talking about Team USA beating Team Canada, winning the World Junior Hockey Championships. We do want to park some time and talk about the late John Muckler, but our guest today is someone who, as you'll hear, might be too smart for hockey.

He's a real good hockey player, and he's a really smart person as well with a very famous hockey last name, and that's Jordan Subban. You put this one together. How did it come together? Well, I wanted to give credit to an author named Vivek Jacob, and Vivek writes in a few places. I know he's written for cbc.ca and he wrote this article for complex.ca. It's about Jordan Subban

and a new business he has started up, Ujima. You know, we've both come across Jordan at different times in ours and his career. He's a lot younger than the two of us are. But he's a pretty funny guy. He's got a great sense of humor and he's an easy guy to talk to. You know But he's a pretty funny guy. He's got a great sense of humor and he's an easy guy to talk to.

You know, he, like a lot of players, you know, it's been a tough year. You know, jobs have been tighter, especially because of the American Hockey League situation. So he's putting his extra time to good use. And we wanted to help promote his business and just talk to him because he's a really good interview.

And I know he's, he has an interesting minor hockey hockey career so i know you would geek out on that so at the end of the day you just want to have good guests on your podcast i think he's a really entertaining guy this was a fun chat love talking to jordan subban here he is on 31 thoughts the Hockey player Jordan Subban, the youngest brother of NHLer Pique and Malcolm Subban, has started his own online marketplace. It is a marketplace that amplifies BIPOC and women-owned businesses. The name of the e-commerce site comes from the Swahili word ujima, meaning collective work and responsibility. I think that it was important to start something like this because I noticed

a gap for these types of businesses to have an opportunity to be amplified. He has a number of vendors on the site, including Brim's, a black-owned Toronto-based hat business, and Culture Shock, an indigenous-owned jewelry company. Elliot, an old Jewish proverb goes like this, as soap is to the body, laughter is to the soul. And I don't know how you feel about your laugh, Elliot, but I think mine is mediocre at best. But our guest

today may have the best laugh in all of hockey. If you call anyone that he's ever been associated with in his hockey wanderings, they'll all tell you best laugh ever. Jordan Subban joins us on 31 Thoughts, the podcast. I don't want to put you on the spot,

Jordan. Say, hey, Jordan, can you laugh for us? But how many times have you been told you have the best laugh? I had to mute my mic there because I started laughing a little bit, but I've definitely heard it before. If I had to take a guess, I'd say that probably most

likely came from Max Domi. He's been my best friend for a a while and he says that all the time uh well listen thanks so much for stopping by today we want to talk about Ujima the new company that you've started uh before we get there give us give us a snapshot of where you're at right now with hockey yeah so with hockey it's you know I'm sort of um in a place you know similar to a lot of people in a similar situation right now. We're just kind of waiting. And obviously, I would still love an opportunity to play. You know, I started Ujima sort of in the offseason, thinking it was going to be a prolonged offseason and as a way to amplify BIPOC and women-owned businesses.

But if I had an opportunity to play hockey, I still would. You know, this year, there's a lot of players, and you were in Austria last year. You've played in the AHL before, and there's a lot of guys who are in the same kind of situation that kind of don't know what to do and don't know what's going to happen this year. And I've had a couple tell me that even if they don't play this year,

they're going to practice and prepare as if they're going to play next year. Are you sort of in that mode? Yeah, for sure. I mean, I've been working out and just trying to stay in shape. And my dad's principal at the school in Vaughan that allows me to be able to skate when the government's not in lockdown. So still skating and still staying in shape as best as I can and staying ready. I mean, that's the business of being a professional hockey player.

And now for me, an entrepreneur as well, is that you just always got to be ready. How did it start? Let's get into it. Take us to the genesis of your new company. I'm always curious in players that are looking for their next career. Take us back to the beginning of Ujima. Yeah, so it started probably three or four years ago now, actually, I was playing in Utica. And I ended up taking online courses for computer programming, and app development. And, you know, I loved it right away. I mean, being a pro hockey player,

you just have so much time on your hand, when you're not practicing, you come home and you have hours. And I wanted to be a little bit you know more productive with my time so I did that and I really liked it I went down to San Francisco in the summertime met a guy named Ryan Neese who is the head of a venture capitalist firm down there called Next Play Capital works with a lot of athletes and yeah you know I just fell in love with it and I played in Ontario and we went to San Jose and I went back to the Valley and just started meeting people and connecting with people and developing, you know, app ideas. And then this year when I got back from Austria, it was unfortunately around the time of the George Floyd murder. And I met with a guy named Raj Ruparel, who founded a

Canadian company actually called NDnd mattresses but before that he was the the founder and ceo of groupon international so i went to him with my bad app idea and he he sort of naturally guided me towards the idea of starting an e-commerce business and around that time i was just intrigued to see what some of the larger platforms were doing to empower black owned businesses specifically. And, you know, I just thought of another way that I would like to do it. And, you know, that was sort of the reasoning why I started Ujima. Jordan, I'm always curious when an athlete branches out into something a little bit different, like business, for example, in your case, there's always something that it's like, wow, I had no idea that this was going to be something

I'd have to learn, or this was something that I'd have to accomplish before I could get my business off the ground. What was that wide eyed moment for you? What did you say? I would have had no clue. I would have to do this. I mean, it's not even like there's one thing. It's almost a combination of all of the going to be a time where, you know, things sort of settle down or, you know, you have the website built or the business built. But no, it's every day. It's something new. It's constant. It's, you know, updating things and just making sure everything's running smooth.

But for me, it was mostly just all of the logistical things that you have to have in place. Was this something that you always, I mean, I don't know when this sort of the idea of post hockey career or next career started for you. But at what point did you start to think about, or maybe you've always been like this. Did you start to think about what can I do in addition to hockey? I don't know if I thought about it in that way. I think when I was playing hockey, I was definitely focused on hockey. But the reason why I actually started taking those online courses, I was living with a roommate when I was in Utica,

and we got robbed at gunpoint in our house, so we couldn't play Xbox anymore. And from that point, we moved out, and I was on my own, and I didn't have my Xbox. So I wanted to actually do something more productive with my time. And I actually just really, really liked it. I've always loved math. I've always been good at math. And I've always been a creative person, at least in my own opinion. And I wanted to do something that allowed me to do that. And it went from, you know, just

kind of watching movies on the bus for road trips to studying. And it's cool. Like I got a DM from one of my old teammates last week and he's like, I remember when he used to be studying on the bus and in the hotel. And it's just cool to see it all sort of come to fruition. So it was less about thinking about, you know, my career after hockey, because I'm still super young, especially in my career in hockey, but, um, and more about just trying to be productive, you know, along that journey. There's a lot of follow-ups that come out of that, uh, Jordan, not the least of which is

one of the reasons I went into sports reporting is I was told there'd be no math. So I was happy to come into it for that reason. But I saw that in Vivek's story about being robbed at gunpoint. I don't know how much you want to say about that, but obviously it's a jarring story. Yeah. What happened? So we were watching the World Juniors Canada USA. I don't want to say who my roommate was,

but we were watching the Canada USA game, and we just went to sleep. And, you know, long story short, there's a guy in our house robbing us. I'm a pretty heavy sleeper, so he woke me up and I came out. And, yeah, and he was there. And it was definitely shocking. We were at the police station all night. We had a game the next day, and it was settled pretty shortly after, after that.

Wow. Well, obviously glad that everybody was okay. I couldn't even imagine. I was curious when you were on the bus and you're working on your courses and you're taking things like that, are other teammates curious? Are they making fun of you? Are they joking that, Oh, there's like the school nerd back in his course?

Are they saying, Hey, what are you doing? Are they interested in what you're talking about? No, especially this was, uh, when I was, I started when I was in Utica and then when I was in Ontario and you know, when I was in Utica, we had a lot of guys that were just great. We had like a really, really mature group of guys. Um, do you know, definitely maybe a couple of jabs, but a lot of guys that were just great. We had like a really, really mature group of guys. Do you know, definitely maybe a couple of jabs, but a lot of guys were actually really,

really interested in it, right? Because everybody uses applications and it's just kind of cool for them to kind of see the back end of it. And yeah, so there was definitely a lot of support from the guys for sure. Are there any players that you played with or know that somewhere down the road you might get into business with like could this be

something where someone who saw you do this would call you and say hey jordan like i'd be curious about this too i mean i'd hope so um off the top of my head i can't think of anybody right now but there's definitely a few guys that I played with that were interested in tech and programming and things like that. So I think being a hockey player, a professional hockey player, a professional athlete, you're by nature an entrepreneur. And I've learned that there's a lot of skills that I've learned playing hockey that I've tried to take over with me while starting with

JMO. And what are your goals? You know, ultimately in addition to continuing to play, I'm curious about your business goals. Like in, you know, you're a young man, you're 25 years old, you've got your whole life ahead of you and a lot of great things to accomplish. Obviously, you know, you come from a family that's very goal oriented. What are you looking at here and saying, this is where I want to be in five years and 20 years, you know, when I have grandkids, things like that. Yeah, for sure. So the main goal of our website is to create a marketplace where BIPOC and women-owned businesses could be amplified and as well for customers to be able to make conscious shopping decisions. And the long term goal is exactly that, you know, a trusted marketplace to shop for BIPOC and women owned businesses.

But right now it's all about everyday just, you know, short term things, you know, amplifying and finding new ways to innovate and a space to amplify these businesses on a daily basis. And that's currently just what I'm focused on now and acquiring, you know, more users and more businesses as well. Ujima.com, U-J-I-M-A-A.com is the website that Jordan is talking about. Okay, story time. So I just got a text. I'm glad it just came in right now, like literally two seconds from one of your former teammates in minor hockey.

And you mentioned, you know, Max Domi is a good friend of yours. And I'm texting with one of your former teammates who's now playing with Europe. And I just said, hey, you know, any good stories about, specifically that minor midget year when your Marlies were head to head with, you know, Max Domi, Darnell Nurse, that Don Mills Flyers team. You know, you guys had a big brawl that season. That was a wild minor mid-year. And I remember going to Herb Carnegie and it's 2011 OHL Cup and Ty Domi's the coach of Don Mills and Ken Strong's the coach of your squad.

And one of your former teammates says, ask him about Ken Strong kicking a garbage can full of God knows what in between the second period of the OHL Cup final. That was hilarious. Oh, my God. Yes, I do remember that. He was not happy. Kenny was definitely not happy.

And we went out and we got the job done. I love Kenny. I had an opportunity to actually play against his son, Steven, this year in Austria. But yeah, that was definitely a wake-up call, to say the least. What do you remember from that season in the GTHL? Because that rivalry, I mean, I don't know,

would you position it as maybe the best rivalry you've ever been involved in? Honestly, I do think so. I think there's something with minor hockey rivalries that it becomes personal. You know, when you go to school and everybody's talking about it, it's like being in a drama series almost. You know, even my teachers are asking about it. Oh, it's Don Mills tonight, huh? Well, you know, I might stop by and, you know, whatever.

Don't worry about your homework today. I know you got a big game tonight. You know, just focus on that. It became like this big ordeal that stemmed for years, right? That the rivalry at Don Mills was years long and it was really good. Okay, so the other thing that your ex, and you played Marley's, you know, your entire minor hockey career. thing that your ex team and you played Marley's you know your your entire minor hockey career another one of your ex Marley teammates says I remember how Jordan was always using 100 flex sticks at 13 because they were because they were PK's extras true or false that is very very true

and it was it is not until maybe like two years ago um where ago where I started to get on the decline in flex sticks. But, hey, I was happy to be using those sticks. Those were great sticks. I'd go, I got the pro stocks, guys. I got the pro stocks. The boys would all love it. You know, I got to think you probably had to protect those things and keep an eye on them all the time.

Oh yeah. I mean, those, I mean, they were, they were golden. I'm like, I'm boys, I'm a pro. Everybody wanted to get their hands on them, but I kept those close to me at all times. You know, Jordan, listening to you laugh and tell stories like this, I always thought you'd go into media. I thought you'd be taking Jeff's job for sure. like this i always thought you'd go into media i thought you'd be taking jeff's job for sure i mean yeah it's definitely uh definitely something that i've looked into but when i

think about it when i like think about it it's it becomes hard but it's some natural for me i guess just talking and and having a good time and my laugh i guess is as you pointed out the laugh really is golden and when you um when you think of your time your time in hockey and listen we are not trying to wrap up a career here by all you just have a lot of hockey you can play but what are some of the things you look back on you're like yeah man you know what that was a fun time that makes me laugh it's never it's not necessarily always big events or championships or anything but what along the way has know, every time you think about it has made you laugh? I mean, just time spent. I mean, it's not really necessarily times where, you know, we've won things or, like you said, big celebrations.

It's, you know, those little moments, especially playing in the American League when you're grinding and you're going on those long bus trips. And you just find ways to find happiness with your teammates, you know, and those seem to be the best times, you know, playing cards on the bus in the hotel room and just enjoying those moments. The Subban family, your parents, Carl Maria, your sisters, Natasha and Nastassia, your brothers, PK and Malcolm and yourself. You sit down to dinner. You've ordered steaks or someone's made steaks. I don't know who the steak maker of the household is. And it turns out there's one extra steak and you're all hungry.

Who gets it? I do. Always. Is that a true question? Now, why you uh because i don't ask questions i mean i just i don't know it's just always been like that i i mean my my dad has been he said that a lot my mom has said it i mean i'm just you know willing to do whatever to get what i want i guess and yeah i don't know if there's a better way to explain it other than i want it more than you do that's it you know that's a great answer it is a great answer and jordan i know a lot of people who

wouldn't say themselves they'd say oh it would be someone else i'm even more impressed that you said it would be me and you didn't even hesitate i love that yeah i i do wonder that how competitive a household was this it was really competitive and it was competitive in ways other than um you know sports because obviously my two sisters played basketball as well just from a discussion standpoint and being able to have opinions on different things and not necessarily arguments but you know competitive thoughts and we challenged each other i guess to have higher levels or at least some sort of cognitive thought for yourself which you don't necessarily get in other places or scenarios in today's society at least so i think that was very important for us growing up as well

now were you guys board game players or like did you guys compete in things that weren't specifically athletics did you have something like that video games board games anything like that yeah a lot of board games growing up i know my elder siblings played a lot more chess than i did growing up but i play a lot of chess now i love chess and dominoes was huge oh i love dominoes yeah i used to play dominoes with my grandfather i i love dominoes now who so who is the best chess player in the family right now i would say it's me i don't know i don't think that my siblings necessarily play that much anymore but i i do play a lot now as much as i can so um i actually got it in my car

i bring i bring it with me my chest set ever since uh that that netflix show it's kind of ruined yeah queen's gambit i'm picking i'm choosing myself for a lot of things here but uh but i i'm just being honest now did you ever play against any of your teammates were there any teammates who were good chess players or guys who would challenge you i've never played against any of my teammates before if i'm being honest we'd play a lot of cards that was sort of the traditional game uh you know schnapps and other games but uh cards uh i wasn't i wasn't as as good in the in the card games on the bus,

especially against the old guys, the vets. They always find a way to win. So who were the good card players that you played against? The best card players. So just so I know, if I ever sit down at a table with this person, I'm getting up and leaving. Who was it? Tom Sestino.

Tom Sestino, by far. Really? I've never, ever played anybody that just was, you know, good at cards. You know who the best card player in the NHL is, right? Who's that? Travis Green. Oh, Greener. Did you ever sit down with him?

Nope. I never had an opportunity to do so. I've heard he's very good. You should have tried because you could have said, Travis, if I win this hand, first power play for a month. I don't know. You had some really good coaches in the American League. And Travis Green with Utica in Toronto with Keefe

and in Ontario with Mike Stothers. What did you learn from all those three heavyweight coaches? Yeah, Greener was my first coach when I turned pro at Utica. And I loved him. I loved him. He taught me how to be a pro. And he knew that with me, I learned the hard way. And he was very hard on me. But he also got the best out of me. Like there's times where I just hated greener, because he was so hard on me. But in my mind, I would just stop and realize, okay, but you know, now I'm, you know, doing better. I'm trying harder. I'm, I'm developing. And I think I saw my largest development with Travis when I was in Utica. So he was great. You know, then I went to Ontario and I had

a chance to, uh, to meet and play for Stutsy and he was great. He was amazing as well. Uh, he was super, super honest, which, which I appreciated. Um, and he was great to me. So I loved him. And then in Toronto, Kiefer was, was amazing. I learned so much from him on a hockey level and then on a personal level as well. He was great for me and he's a, he's a great coach. Would you coach someday? I think so. I think I,

I definitely would, but yeah, for sure. Okay. How about this then? Cause Elliot and I were texting about this the other day when the, the world junior final was on Canada, the U S and one of the two referees is a former teammate of yours,

Carter Sandlack. You guys played together with the Belleville Bulls. Would that ever be appealing to you, officiating? Maybe a ref. I've always thought about, like, when I was a kid, my sister still makes fun of me. I'd be in the hallways, you know, making the whistle with my noise and

pretending to be a referee um so i guess maybe that's maybe a little bit of childhood dream so it would be cool but maybe a coach would be more appealing to me or gm or something um along those lines you've got a lot going on jordan like there's. Like there's a lot to unpack here between playing and business and thinking about coaching or maybe refereeing somewhere in the future. You've got a lot of plans. I kind of like this. I know that there's a lot of guys in the middle of their careers. You have to be career-oriented because it's so competitive.

And as you said earlier, you are competitive. But you've got a lot you're thinking about here. Yeah, and I've always been, you know, an overthinker, I guess, like I'm constantly thinking about things and just trying to, you know, if you're not open to exploring new things, then it's hard to continue to grow. And like I said, I love tech. And the big thing with tech is always just constant innovation. And to be able to innovate at And like I said, I love tech. And the big thing with tech is always just constant innovation. And to be able to innovate at a, you know, consistently, you have to just be willing to at least have an open mind to think about new things or new ideas and possibilities.

And I've always left my mind open for that. But once I'm set on something, once I'm doing something, I'm working on something, it's 100% in on whatever that is. Okay. So I could be like going way off the track here, but I'm going to try this anyway. Sometimes this works well. Sometimes this just ends in disaster. So Jordan, I've been reading a lot about like, for example, you know, those dogs they've created, the AI dogs that are basically humans now. And I read a story in the Wall Street Journal

a couple of weeks ago. There's a great writer. Her name is Joanna Stern. And she talked about how people, when they're getting older and they're facing mortality now, they're uploading their memories into AI to kind of preserve themselves.

And you said you're really interested to tech. And I was not, but I'm learning about all this stuff. What is the biggest tech thing that interests you? And what maybe is the biggest tech innovation that you think is going to come or you think you're going to discover over the next 10, 15, 20 years? Oh, that's great. I read, that's a very similar question. It sounds like to me, there's a book called Zero to One by Peter Thiel. And he has a contrarian question. That seems very similar. It's a very good question. I would say for me, what I'm most interested right now is probably AI, just because there's so much opportunity for it and what it could be used for and how it could change the way, you know, we shop, we live, we work, you know, and I think if it is executed in a way that

can appeal to businesses and can be applied to businesses looking to scale AI in a way that could help them, I think that would be massive, you you know specifically for e-commerce right now obviously it is growing and it's huge and if you could find a way to integrate ai into your business to create a better user experience and more seamless user experience it would definitely over the next 10 to 15 to 20 years be massive and it would it would completely change the way people shop for instance online if we're talking specifically about e-commerce because you know shopping brick and mortar traditionally is a lot different than shopping online right people are a lot more conscious for you know you take one example people are more conscious of what they're buying online

right so ai could be one of the ways that is used to sort of, you know, have that same effect online that you have when you're when you're in store when you're in person. So that's one way to look at it. And I'm like I said, it's just about executing that. And if that's, you know, able to happen, or if that happens, then within the next 10 to 1520 years, I think we'll notice a big difference. See a big change. Oh, wow. I'm fascinated by this. I'm really interested. Yeah.

Well, first of all, Jordan, I want to give you a chance to plug your company, Ujima. If there's someone who's interested, who wants to get in touch with you or wants to see if they can pitch to you, how would they go about doing it? Yeah, so you can email us at info at Ujima.com. And if you want more info about Ujima and our business as well, you could visit our website and see our about page in the footer of our website. And yeah, for any inquiries, you could, you could hit us up at info at Ujima.com and on social media, we're at Ujima Inc. Okay. And, you know, I did want to ask Jordan, you know, you mentioned George Floyd earlier yesterday as we were preparing for this interview and we're taping on Thursday, you know, we all watched what happened in the capital of the States.

Unbelievable, really. You know, just how do you feel about being a person of color in hockey and where we are and where we're going. I just wanted to ask you, I don't even want to lead you with a question. I just wanted to ask you how you feel and, you know, where you think we're going and where we need to go. Yeah. So I think, you know, in regards to yesterday, I think democracy and the process of democracy

just needs to be respected. And where we are right now is, you know, there's a large conversation going on. And I think the conversation is important. And another reason why I felt it was necessary to create this platform was, you know, there also needs to be steps taken, sort of taking the next steps. It's great that we are continuing to bring awareness. taken sort of taking the next steps it's great that we are continuing to bring awareness and there's a lot of platforms specifically on on social platforms instagram whatever with accounts being created and everything and that's amazing that's great but we need to start you know taking the next steps and for me that was amplifying these businesses um supporting these businesses

in one place and making it super easy to identify them and support five pocket women owned businesses and we just need to continue to innovate and find new ways to amplify these businesses, support these businesses, and grow these businesses, you know, in our journey for equality. You're an impressive person. Your heart is in the right place.

Your head is in the right place. Man, do you ever have a bright future ahead of you, hockey and elsewhere. Jordan, it's been a real delight. Thanks so much for stopping by the podcast this week. We really appreciate it. All the best. Thank you, Elliot. Thank you, Neil. that interview elliot was a lot of fun to do and by the way Vivek's article you can find in our podcast notes uh on this week's pod your takeaway from our chat with Jordan Subban is what

you know this year has been really tough on a lot of players especially the AHL like I can't tell you Jeff how many conversations I've had this year from players or even agents about how panicked they were about finding some of their guys jobs guys who made good money in the ahl or guys who were overseas like jordan was last year in austria or you know guys who sort of had that two-way deal with a high ahl salary like there's been panic about it real worry about finding places so i know how tough it is on people. I hope that Jordan finds a spot this year or next and can resume his career. But this is a guy who's going to make a huge mark off the ice too. He's got a lot of goals. He's got a lot of dreams. The whole tech conversation, it's very interesting to me. I mentioned an article in the Wall Street Journal,

the author's name is Joanna Stern. She covers a lot of tech for them where she just did a big series on how people want to kind of preserve their lives after they die and ai and how it's going to do that and i was freaked out watching this thing jeff oh yeah i listen i i love stuff like that the whole idea of things like downloading consciousness or things like how we're all sort of evolving to this singularity as a species. I find all of that fascinating stuff, Elliot. I'm right there with you. The fact that Jordan's really into that, there's no question that this is a person who's going to make a big mark in the tech world or the business world. So I, I, I'm really interested in that. And the other thing too, is, you know, Jeff, I'm a real big believer in that COVID, one of the things it's going to do is it's going to change a lot of people's priorities, like the way they live their lives. And so I think there's going to be a lot

of people who are kind of known for one thing who say, now I'm going to do this other thing. And obviously Jordan Subban is going to be one of those people. And for a lot of people, it's going to be out of necessity. And the ones that are nimble and can adapt and are able to forget long-held beliefs and do things different ways, those are going to be the ones that succeed. And you talk to Jordan Subban and you say to yourself, this guy, you know, keeps his cup empty so he can always put something in it. Like his, he has the mind of someone who's looking at possibilities, not looking to reaffirm what he already believes. I got a, I got a lot of time for, for Jordan Subban and, and people like him.

And, you know, we mentioned in the interview interview him playing in the ohl cup and that rivalry with that with don mills and he played much like his other two brothers with the belville bulls of the ontario hockey league was a real good junior player and i wanted to ask you speaking of junior hockey your takeaway from the world junior championships this year like there was not one like there wasn't a conor mcdavid uh in the tournament this like there wasn't a Connor McDavid in the tournament this year. There wasn't sort of one superstar that dominated the headlines. Trevor Zegers was outstanding. Dylan Cousins was outstanding.

But either from a personnel point of view or just a gameplay point, whatever, what was your takeaway from the World Juniors this year? Hey, credit to the Americansicans they want it fair and square they earned it no issues um they came up big in the biggest game trevor zigris i mean how excited are the ducks to play this guy yeah because they need more more forward prospects in their pipeline. They have so many. They are stacked for the future. Stacked. Okay, I'd like to talk about this a little bit. Sure.

Okay? Like when we talk about how hockey has to change, okay? Yep. And accept the personalities of the players. So Zegers makes that comment before the game in the TSN interview, like we have to challenge the goalie five on five. They have not been challenged enough five on five. And it becomes, quote unquote, a big deal.

My reaction to that is, why is this a big deal? He's right. And he proved it. That's what makes it great. He went out and proved it. USA went out and proved it. Let's forget that for a second. You're right, but let's forget that for a second, okay?

My point is that that's one thing I think we have to change about the way we deal with the sport, okay? In basketball, nobody would blink an eye if somebody said that nobody and in hockey it's an issue and if he had been shut down and the u.s had been shut down and people wanted to say well you you didn't walk the walk that's. But my point of view is that I like the fact that he said that because he's right. Until the final, the best defensive tournament I've ever seen any team play was Team Canada, the 2014 Sochi. That Babcock team and that Canadian team, they gave up nothing. I remember they beat US 1-0 in the semifinal. And 1-0, you think, okay, it's a nerve up nothing. I remember they beat us one, nothing in the semifinal and one, nothing. You think, okay, it's a nerve wracker. I never thought the U S was going to

score that game. Canada did everything they wanted. And then they shut out Sweden in the final. Like that was the best offensive team I'd ever complete team I'd ever seen before. And until the final, this world junior Canada team was second and the Americans did it. And, but my point is with Ziggurus is we have to stop making that kind of thing a big deal. Yeah. You know, it's our business. We've got to talk about it. We've got to create news. I get it. I'd probably be just as guilty. I don't want to excuse myself in any way, shape, or form. But I don't see, Jeff, and you can tell me if you think I'm wrong,

I don't see that as anything problematic. Kid walks up, says, we have to challenge this guy five on five. Canada had given up zero five on five goals. Yeah. I mean, is that really a problem? Is that really something that we have to say oh i thought the kid was 100 right he says he said he walked the walk but i thought what he said was perfectly fine 100 fine i wish we would have more of it because you know what it does it underscores one thing this is a you know we just talked to jordan subban about uh about business and we talked off the beginning of the podcast about Line A and Barzal, and this is a business.

There's an exchange of money for entertainment here. Like I've always maintained that sports at the pro level shouldn't have its own section in the newspaper. It should all be the entertainment section. And that's where pro sports belongs. And this winks at this idea that we should allow more people to say things like this, like basketball gets it, because this is about entertainment. And I don't think there's anything harmful in saying things like, I don't like that guy,

or we don't like that team, or we think this goalie is weak here, or this is where we think we can exploit this team. I don't know anyone, Elliot. I can't name one person who's ever been excited to buy a hockey ticket and said to his or her buddy, I can't wait to watch this game because these two teams really respect each other. Have you?

I can't wait to watch these teams respect each other out there tonight. This is going to be so good. Not a chance. Honestly, I loved what Zegra said. To me, it wasn't even a sort of blip on the radar or anything you would perk your ears up over. I think the NHL should encourage players to talk more. I know the coaches hate it. I know organizations hate it, you know, bulletin board material, et cetera, et cetera. But to your point, this game does need to change and allow personality to come out more and allow players to say things like we don't like them. We don't think they're that good. And tonight we're going to show it. That is very simple.

And if you don't walk the walk, you get hammered and that's the way it should be. Yeah. And that's fine. I did want to say about the Canadian players, I felt terrible for them for one particular reason. This year, I said that before the, the Stanley Cup playoffs began, that this was

going to be the hardest Stanley Cup to lose the worst year to lose the Stanley Cup final because you're going to be in that bubble and it's going to really hurt. Yeah. And like those Canadian players had to do that quarantine and it was really hard. It was really hard.

And to go through that and go to the gold medal game and finish with the silver, there's no shame in being a silver medalist. Those kids played as hard as they could, but I do feel badly after that to not accomplish what you ultimately want to accomplish i think it's probably the hardest gold medal game ever to lose and i sympathize with those kids you know it's an interesting tournament um specifically for

american hockey fans i mean in canada generally by the time players are ready to graduate into the NHL, most of the names are all known to hockey fans, but in the United States, I've always maintained, and I always go out of my way to mention EJ Raddick, who's always been someone who's pushed for this tournament to get more exposure stateside for the NHL network to do more with this tournament, because in a lot of hockey markets in the United States, hockey players come from some weird factory that's hidden away.

It doesn't have the exposure that baseball, basketball, football, the major sports have. These athletes just appear from somewhere. And this is a good opportunity to see whether it is like if you're a Ducks fan to see Jamie Drysdale and Trevor Zegers playing. If you're an Avs fan to see Bowen Byron before he joins an already stacked blue line with the avalanche. This is a, I've always maintained one. It's a development tournament.

So I don't place, you know, much of my national identity as a Canadian on, on who wins or loses. I sort of look at it just like I look at the Gretzky, Holinka, the U 17s, the four nations,

all these things. These are development tournaments for these kids. But as far as marketing for the NHL goes, this has always been a great opportunity, I think, to introduce more specifically American hockey fans to the next wave of NHL players. That's where this tournament has always sort of sat for me. players. That's where this tournament has always sort of sat for me. And if I'm an American hockey fan right now, specifically with either the Los Angeles Kings or the Anaheim Ducks, I'm feeling pretty

excited right now because I've had a tough couple of seasons, but there's hope on the horizon. You mentioned Trevor Zegers. There's some good players coming to Anaheim and good players coming to LA as well for each. Oh, yeah. And they all took a private plane together. How was that trip? I hope that Bob Murray and Rob Blake demanded there be a curtain

so that they couldn't fraternize with each other. And you had to enter separate doors. Okay, King's prospects enter this door. Doc's prospects enter this door. As this tournament rolls around every year, we continue to get older, and these kids stay the same age, under 20. How old did you feel when you realized it was carter sandlack jim sandlack's son who was officiating a thousand

just like in case you need another marker of just how old you're getting there's jim sandlack former fourth overall draft pick of the vancouver canucks his son who's already gone through his you know minor hockey junior hockey and played a little pro as well, is now officiating in the biggest junior hockey game of the year. Elliot, I want to finish up the podcast this week by talking about the passing of John Muckler, who he lost recently at the age of 86. He was part of five different Stanley Cup champions. 1990 was a really crowning achievement

for John Muckler and the Edmonton Oilers. Was the architect of a really good Ottawa Senators team. He was a general manager there from 01 to 07. To say nothing of his work with the Buffalo Sabres. Early on, he gets the nod behind the bench with the Minnesota North Stars. But when I say John Muckler to you, what comes to your mind?

Well, first ever interview I've had on Hockey Night in Canada. There's no question about that. That was the first thing I ever did on the show. And I will always remember that because I was so nervous when the music came on. I said to him, I bet you this is the first time

that you've ever been interviewed by someone who's more nervous than you are. And he didn't even blink an eye. He looked at me and goes, I doubt it in that gravelly voice he are. And he didn't even blink an eye. He looked at me and goes, I doubt it. And that gravelly voice he had, and that broke the tension for me. But the other thing I really remember about Muckler is, um, just when the night that Dominic Hasek went into the hall of fame, he saw me and, uh, he said that Elliot, who's

your best goalie of all time. And I was a big Patrick Waugh guy. And I just said, why? And he just growled at me he goes Hasek he was so disgusted by my answer Hasek and he moved on to the next person who he could ask the other thing too I remember about him was in the 2007 Stanley Cup final Ottawa lost the first two games to Anaheim and they came home for game three and the practice day before the game I asked if I could meet with him so I went into his office and we chatted and I just said, what did you think

watching the first two games? And he said that it reminded him of watching the Oilers first Stanley Cup final against the Islanders, that you don't realize how big the stage is. And you, and he said that that first other team blinked after two games and all of a sudden they were like, the series is over. And they lost that first series to the Islanders. And he says, I hope we haven't lost already. That's what he said. You know, it reminded me of that first Oilers series where before we even knew what hit us, we were down and done. And they did win game three, but they didn't win the series.

Obviously they lost in five games. And I just remembered that conversation with Muckler. You know, he was someone that had a legendary minor hockey career as well. The stories of him with the Long Island Ducks are legendary. And he ran the team for a while. And he traded John Brophy, So legendary, tough defenseman, former coach, former NHL coach as well. He traded Brophy,

who was one of the toughest minor league players you ever saw. I think he traded him at like four or five different times. But as Muckler always pointed out, I always brought him back. Like he was always, he always had his guys. You know, I always talked to Berkey about how loyal he was

to his tough guys, specifically Brad May. Wherever Berkey went, he was always taking Brad May with him. That was the guy that I'm bringing. I'm bringing May Day with us. Anaheim for the cup run that you talk about against the Ottawa Senators. He goes to the Maple Leafs and he goes about acquiring Brad May. That's kind of the way

that Muckler was in the minors with John Brophy. And when I think of Muckler, I think of the 1990 Cup. I think of that Ottawa Senators team. And the visual to me, though, will always be him standing on the bench with Ted Green. Like how many times did you see that shot of the Oilers bench? And there's Sather and right beside or behind is John Muckler and Ted Green that's the shot that I'm always going to think of

when I think of John Muckler that's a great memory great memory condolences to the family and the friends of the late John Muckler