32 Thoughts: The Podcast - The NHL Inches Closer To A Return

Episode Date: December 12, 2020

The league and the NHLPA are getting their pucks in a row for a return. Jeff and Elliotte discuss the long-term effects of the CBA, possible target dates, division realignment and ads on helmets. They are also joined by newly hired Florida Panthers goaltending consultant François Allaire, who talks about his role, how it came […]

I hope I don't wish everybody happy Valentine's Day this time. That was good. Welcome once again to 31 Thoughts, the podcast. Merrick alongside Friedman. And before we get to our special guest, and truth be told, I've wanted to talk to Francois Allaire for a long time. Personally, I'm in the camp of he belongs in the Hall of Fame, opening doors for a lot of other goaltending coaches, profoundly changing the way that position has been played.

And that question does come up during our conversation with Francois a little bit later on. But Elliot, before we get to Francois Allaire, who's now a goaltending consultant with the Florida Panthers, what's the very latest? Like, I know this is all very fluid and changing and what you say now is not going to be true five minutes from now but as best you're able to to grab and try to grasp some water in your hand and not let it slip through your fingers where are we at i think we're in the grinding stage they're grinding away at the protocols they're grinding away at the schedule they're grinding away at the setup the divisions the temporary realignment they're grinding away at the transition rules all of this stuff and you know basically people have been telling me it's endless zoom calls trying to figure it out

and the players in the league have decided that they're not going to touch their escrow they said they weren't doing that but in order to agree to greater deferments they said we consider certain things one was not this upcoming season but next season which is 21 22 an extra five hundred thousand dollars on the cap and another five hundred thousand the year later and the league wasn't willing to go for that um i know they suggested compliance buyouts but as long as the players didn't have to pay for them and the league wasn't going for that I think that one thing that also had been talked about was could individual players say yes we're willing to defer even if the whole group didn't agree to it but that was you know way too complicated and it didn't go anywhere so they didn't go anywhere on

the financials and now they're you know they didn't go anywhere on the financials. And now they're, you know, they're grinding away at all the other stuff, taxi squads, how big the roster is going to be. If the roster is 25 people, how does that affect the cap? You know, how's the realignment going to work? First, Minnesota was in the Pacific and then St. Louis was in the Pacific and Minnesota was out. And then they were talking about St. Louis and Minnesota going to the Pacific and Dallas going into the Central Division. Apparently Dallas has said, you know, we'll do whatever.

But they left the Pacific a few years ago to get back into that Central time zone. So they're happy with doing that. I know the players were hoping to vote end of the weekend maybe beginning of next week and the league sort of middle towards end of next week i think that's what everyone's kind of aiming for so as you mentioned off the top there's a lot to unpack in that you mentioned that they're not touching the financials some you know conversation about it and will you do this if we do that but ultimately that remains the same and they move on to the return to play and all the protocols involved is this the rare case and we'll do

this all under the umbrella of the current incarnation of this nhl goes back to 0405 and bob good now and the salary cap etc is this the first case that we've seen where the nhlpa dug in its heels didn't give in didn't budge and won here's why i'm not giving you a yes sooner or later this bill is going to get paid i think this generation of players could say yes we won we stood strong we agreed to a deal we didn't move from the deal the thing that the commissioner is right about from what he said publicly is that it's a 50 50 deal yep and at some point in time the bill has to be paid and the biggest issue the owners have is cash flow this is why some of them are really upset cash flow is going to be down in the league because there's going to be no fans in the building.

This year will not be 50-50. It's going to tip towards the players. Probably the most ever it's going to tip towards the players. And the escrow that's going to be collected is in no way going to be equal what's going to be owed. Yep. It's possible after this year, the players are going to owe the owners more than a billion dollars as a matter of fact depending on who you lock talk to it's not just possible it's likely i'm just being careful because i'm getting my math from everywhere else and i haven't sat down and done it myself but it's likely that they're going to owe them more than a billion dollars. And the problem is that the schedule of that pay is slower than the owners would like.

So there's going to be some cashflow issues. So they're unhappy. But what it means is, is that the cap is not going to go up maybe for the entirety of this CBA. Yep. So that affects the players. And the other thing is, at some point in time, this money is going to become due. And what's that going to mean? Like, there are owners right now who are saying their concern is that this six-year deal, Their concern is that this six-year deal, there's a time where it gets triggered to a seventh year if the losses are at a certain amount, and they will be. So after seven years, the players are

still going to owe the owners money, and that's going to become part of the next CBA. And what that's going to mean, and this might send us all into retirement jeff is that six or seven years from now there's going to be one hell of a cba negotiation oh because the owners are going to come into it saying you owe us hundreds of millions of dollars and the players are going to say well we think as part of it, some of that should be forgiven. I mean, people are already worried about this. This is a long-term thing, but I can tell you the owners are thinking about it now. And the league is thinking about it now. So the only reason I say it's not unequivocal yes for the players is that there are some players playing now who are going to be hugely affected by this.

What was the line that you used on me on Hockey Central? Oh, this is Travis Ajax saying to Jack Hughes, yeah, you're going to pick up this bill. And that's definitely part of this. So I think the current players, it's a win. The guys who won't be playing in six or seven years it's a win but the guys who will be it's not a win historically though it's just as an aside i mean bob goodenow talked about this in the 0405 negotiation salary caps always pit player versus player because you define a pie

and everyone fights for their piece of it so it shouldn't come to any surprise that again, this is the players association saying, you know what, if anyone's going to get stuck with the bill here, it's going to be the kids. You know, the, the rookies amongst all the players that are capped and everybody is the rookies are triple capped. You know, there's a team salary cap. There's an individual player salary cap, and there's a team salary cap. There's an individual player salary cap. And there's a rookie salary cap as well. This is the history.

This is the history of the NHLPA. And it happens in every sport. It's always the guys that are coming in. Like, listen, Shane Wright hasn't played a single game in the NHL. He's affected by this decision. Yes, absolutely. And, you know, if you go back 15 years, the highest paid players in the NBA were the picks.

Glenn Robinson, number one pick, I think 1995, 69 million. And the people in the league were like, we're stopping this. The veterans said, this is crazy. So they came up with the NBA rookie salary cap cap you look at the nfl the quarterbacks who used to be taken to the top of the draft anybody got taken to the top of the draft huge deals the veterans said we're putting a stop to this and they did that's the way it works and it's not just like that in sports there's unions all over the world that do this kind of thing. They take care of the current worker at the expense of the future one. It's not unusual.

And that's exactly what happened here. Sooner or later, this bill is going to become due. Okay. So you talked about how this is the grind time right now between the NHL and the Players Association trying to get this thing hammered out. I'm curious about a couple of things here, and I want to get to vaccines in a second. But in the summer, players were allowed to opt out.

Now it was a much different time. We didn't know as much about COVID-19 as we do now. We knew that we were heading into unknown. What was the bubble going to be like? What was the entire landscape going to be? We just didn't know. There were questions and there were certain risks. Some players opted out and everyone said, no problem, we understand. How much is opt-out an issue right now?

Boy, that's a great question. I think we could see some retirements. I think the other thing is, how comfortable do some people feel like playing if you watch the news and don't live in a cave or read the news we are two or three months away from the vaccine starting to have a real positive effect on society we probably won't have full fans until next season. Dr. Fauci said a week ago, the next league to begin its season with full fans will likely be the NFL in September, but we're getting closer. However, these next two months, they're going to be ugly. They're going to be painful and they're going to be ugly. How comfortable are some players going to be painful and they're going to be ugly how comfortable are some players going to be playing in that now one of the things that's happening is because a lot of these players who

have families could be leaving moving to different cities than where they live in the off season i think you'll see some players not be with their family and feeling a bit safer with that but i think some other ones are going to be concerned about it. You know, the difference between now and the playoffs is the players played in the playoffs. They weren't being paid per se, but they were playing to save costs,

right? Yes. Now you're being paid. If you opt out now, I don't know if you'll still get your service time. You'll still get your benefits. This is stuff that's all being negotiated, are your primary earning years. It's the way we take care of our families. Anybody out there who's listening to this, if you have a family and you're in a responsible position to earn money for it and you can't, it's a tremendously mentally painful thing. I don't like it when people say, oh, money shouldn't matter. I understand all these decisions.

I really do. I think it's hard. And I think the difference now, Jeff, is that your salary could be affected. But I do think there are going to be players. I don't want to say his name on air because he won't talk about it. But there is one player in particular of who's a key player on a good team who I know people are wondering about if he'll return. Hmm. You see, I look at this and I say there's no way that it can be 100% commitment from all the players. Everybody has a different situation. Everybody has a different personal setup. Everyone has different beliefs. Even something like, you know, vaccines. everybody has a different situation everybody has a different personal setup everyone has

different beliefs even something like you know vaccines some people just like the rest of society are going to say you know what i'm taking a pass or are saying i'm going to take a pass temporarily until i see what the rest of society is going to be like after the first wave of people take the vaccine then i'll feel more comfortable doing it so So I can see there being a fight over vaccines being mandatory. Well, I've heard that's a conversation. Is it going to be mandatory? Yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all. That there would be the one substantial player saying, you know what?

I'm not sure if I want to do this. Well, I'll tell you something too. For myself, the moment it becomes available, that I'm told that i'm gonna take it i'm gonna take i'm exactly the same but you know i was told i didn't realize this i have a family member who's got severe allergies and they're not sure they're gonna be able to take it so is it gonna be mandatory except for a medical reason i mean is it not it not going to be mandatory? Like I've heard, this is definitely a conversation. Like I don't want to get too much into this conversation, but what percentage of the general public doesn't believe in vaccines?

So let's just say, Jeff, I'll make up a number. This is not scientific. Let's just say it's 5%. Okay. Is there any reason to feel differently that 5% of the hockey community wouldn't believe in vaccines?

Nope. I would say. What do you do with that? No. We've talked about this before. Sports is a microcosm of society. No reason for the people in it to behave any differently just because they can shoot the puck 105 miles an hour. I would expect it to be the same.

to be the same. As we outline here, these are just some of the internal struggles, the fights, as you call it, the grind to get to a return to play. It's not just as simple as, well, the players want to play and so do the owners. So just sign the piece of paper and let's open up training camp. The dates that we're looking at here are the ones that have been well publicized. Elliot, just after Christmas for the teams that didn't make the playoffs uh january 1st for those that did and then january 13th dropping the puck on the next season yeah that's what we're looking at i mean it's a target there are some people out there who are really skeptical jeff but it's definitely a target that's what everybody here wants to do. 56 games, eight times seven. The U.S. teams have eight.

U.S. divisions have eight teams. So the other seven teams will play each other eight times. The Canadian division, I'm not sure how it's going to work because there's seven teams. Is it just going to be six times? You play some close to you a bit more than the others. We'll figure it out but they're they're going over all this stuff right now and when they come back there will be ads on

helmets yes so it came out during the board of governors meeting on wednesday there's a president's meeting on monday and they're going to go over it there but they are talking about ads on helmets i forgot the ahl does this it. I looked at some pictures. It's not that bad for people there who really hate this. But, you know, the fact is we're going to change here. The podcast we did where we talked about growing revenues, there's definitely a conversation going on between everyone in the league about we have to do this now.

You know, we've been a bit too conservative this has to change and i think the reason they're not going to jersey ads yet is a they want to do it right and b i think they want to make sure they know what the market is like it's a weird market now depressed market sure so i don't think they want to lock into anything that they look at and say okay we misread it or we could have done better so i think they think they want to lock into anything that they look at and say okay we misread it or we could have done better so i think they're going to test it with the helmets first i know somebody who works in the nba they told me you know yesterday their team and they're they're um not a hugely popular team but they have a couple of popular players on it

like their jersey patch goes for five million it's money that you can't yeah really turn down no listen as both sides try to recoup it honestly i think it's long overdue just personally whether it's this we're we're used to rink board advertising i think was jockey the first one rink board ad and i think i want to say say it was an Alan Eagleson deal for the 1972 Summit series. It was jockey. That was the first rink board ad. I think if my memory serves me correct that we saw, and I'm sure 1972 people said, well, that's odd. Well, that looks different. And then we all got used to it. I think that helmets will be the same thing. And I think jerseys will be the same thing as well. I think that we're headed that way eventually anyhow.

And what has COVID done, Elliot? It has hit fast forward on all of our lives, whether it's learning how to work remotely or whether it is putting an ad on a hockey jersey. It's sped everything up by what? Between three to five years. And I think we're there. And I think this is the moment to do it

because there's already this understanding that this is like, now they have the built-in excuse for why they're doing it. We all know the losses and this is how they're trying to recoup. And this is how you get it in, and then it just stays.

And it becomes part of the hockey landscape. I'll tell you something too, Jeff. This is just me talking, but I am wondering what's going to go on with the playoffs long-term. In what sense? I wonder. I have some people telling me that this playoff debate is not over.

Expanded playoffs? Yeah. Just don't let anyone go wild with this yet. But I just wonder if maybe it's not now. But I got gotta tell you like i have some people telling me that that is not gonna go away when you look at the money that's been lost i don't know how you look at that scenario and say nah we're not gonna do it i'm with you because i don't think there's any damage to the game i don't think it's like well you know what penny wise pound I don't think there's any damage to the game. I don't think it's like, well, you know what?

Pennywise, pound foolish. No. I think there'll be some pure. I know that Berkey hates it. That's the number one reason to do it. Just to piss them off some more. You know, the other thing too is I'm watching ESPN. Okay.

They just made a huge deal for the Southeastern Conference football. It's been done for like nine months and they just confirmed it yesterday at the Disney upfronts. As Disney was announcing a billion Marvel movies and three billion Star Wars movies, they also announced the Southeastern Conference deal, which is a big deal. Apparently ESPN is also in negotiations for the Monday and Thursday night football packages. Currently they have Monday. And Fox made noises this week that they're willing to give up Thursday to keep Sunday. Is ESPN going to have the money to take 20, 25% of the NHL deal after doing these two things? I don't know.

I'm just talking out of my ears. But you got to make your tv package more valuable right i just wonder like i got some people kind of saying they they're not saying much and the playoffs this year are still kind of under wraps i think we know that it's going to be four teams top four in each division this, there's no sense in having a crossover. But someone told me that there's something. I don't know if it's now or later, but they're just hearing whispers that there could be something

long-term with the playoffs. I don't know. We'll see. Like I said, I don't want anyone going crazy on this. This is a podcast. We talk out of our butts and see where it goes. Is that our new positioning statement in the marketplace? 31 Thoughts to Podcast. We talk out of our butts and see where it goes.

I like that. It's a great handle. Off to marketing. And let's get to our guest on that one. And this story continues. Follow Elliot on Twitter. Read 31 Thoughts to Blog and stay informed. We'll keep you up to date on this podcast as best we can as well.

Goaltending, excellent department of the Florida Panthers features, amongst Rob Tallis and leader Roberto Luongo, a former NHL goalie coach, easily the most influential goalie coach the game has ever seen. And that's Francoisis allaire who joins a florida panthers organization did this surprise you at all like when this was all announced the structure of it what it was and that francois allaire was involved in it any of that catch you off guard it did just because i wasn't you know thinking about it it wasn't something that was really on my radar so when i heard about it i was like oh something that was really on my radar. So when I heard about it, I was like, Oh, you know, that's interesting. Good idea. You know, I think a layer is a smart guy and anytime you can pick his brain, that's what you do. And, you know, the way I look at it now is, you know, there's a cap on what you can spend, but there doesn't mean there has to be a

cap on other things you do to make your organization better. Now, a lot of teams and a lot of leagues are going through difficult times right now. And there's a big question about the future of scouting in the National Hockey League. But I don't, I think anytime you add smart people to your organization just to try things, I think it's a bright idea. I have always marveled and at times really shaken my head when I look at how important the goaltender is to a team and then look at the lack of resources generally that NHL teams dedicate towards that position. Honestly, when you consider how value, what's the old saying? If you have a goalie, it's 70% of your team.

If you don't, it's 100. it's 70% of your team. If you don't, it's a hundred. Like when you consider like the nature of that position, just historically how few resources have been dedicated to it, it boggles our mind. That's why when I look at something like this, I say, well, good, like more teams should spend this amount of time and money and resources on this position that you can make the argument is the most important in the game. I'm not going to argue with this speech. That was an excellent speech. Oh, we should mention,

because in case people don't know, his brother, Benoit Allaire, is the goalie coach of the New York Rangers. Yes. And we do make reference to it in the interview. So if you don't understand exactly what we're referring to, this will give you the proper context. And we will get

to the do goalie coaches belong in the hall of fame discussion with someone who if they did would be the first name here's Francois Allaire is a retired goaltending coach, but he is a goaltending consultant with the goaltending excellence departments of the Florida Panthers. To break down and figure out how all of this works and put it into plain words for all of us is Francois Allaire himself. Francois, thanks so much for joining us today. How are you this morning? I'm very good. So describe to us how this all came together and your position in the goaltending excellence department

of the Florida Panthers. Well, it's come together because Roberto is working now with the management. And last year when he got the ceremony where he got his numbers on the roof of the Florida Panthers arena, I got an invite to the ceremony. And we talked a little bit about maybe having the possibility to do a goaltending department to help out the young goaltenders of the organization. And when Bill Zito came on board this year, he got a similar idea. So we get all together, we talk a little bit, and we just decided to try to do something about it this year,

thinking about what we can do for the young prospect and the future prospect of the Panthers so in my hands Francois as we do this interview I am holding the hockey goalies complete guide an indispensable development, written by Francois Allaire in 2009. It was published by Firefly Books. So it's been 11 years since you put this out there. How much has changed in 11 years from the way you wrote this book to what you'd suggest now? Of course, the style of the gold tangending has changed a lot since 10 years. There was no doubt about it because I think the goaltending is probably the position where there

is the fastest evolution in Hinoake right now. Why? Because now every goalie's got a goalie coach. Every organization got a goalie coach. Sometimes two goalie coach, sometimes three goalie coach. And all the information are available on the net. So everybody's really, really fast. If there is something working everywhere in the world, the people are really fast to put it on their own game and put it on their coaching game so the game is changing and they're quick in a

hurry and I think now because of that there is more needs to find out how we can recruit and how we can develop and how we can have a better understanding of the job. So, yes, it's progressing really, really quick since the last 10 years for sure. And there's one area whenever I talk to goaltenders, they always talk about how much goaltenders now need to be able to read complex lateral plays i think of plays off the rush and shots don't come off the rush plays do passes do but you still have to respect the shots uh always uh how do you train goalies knowing that a you need to respect the shot but two knowing full well that puck's going across the ice. Well, you know, it's a part of reading for sure.

You have to be able to read the play pretty well. But you have to be good technically to be able to transfer your body from one side to the other side. So you cannot panic. You have to trust your feet. And this is something I think you need to practice every day when you're going to ice you have to do those basic movement all the time you have to build your foundation and that's not easy a lot of people panic a lot of people don't push enough a lot of people go down first uh so that's all the thing i think it's part of the coaching

and uh we're really really um happy to have rob talus and they will go part of our coaching staff and we're gonna try for sure to implement this thing in their coaching you know you talked about something there about willingness to do the drills there was a time when Jacques Martin was coaching the Montreal Canadiens and Carey Price was going through a really tough time Francois and I remember going to Montreal for a game and asking Jacques Martin you know at the time he thought Price had more to offer and I said what do you want to see and he told me that he remembered with Patrick Waugh, if Patrick Waugh had a bad game or he didn't like what he saw, he would go out on the ice for two

hours without pucks and just do the moves. And Martin said it was amazing for him to see. Like there wasn't a puck on the ice, but Patrick was always doing his rotation. And that's one of the things I want to talk to you about is when I grew up, and I don't mean to make you feel old, I loved Patrick Waugh. To Sandstrom with Allison and a glove save! What a save by Waugh as he takes a fourth Ranger goal away right there. He was well out of the net that time. This could be the start of another hockey dynasty.

Almost at the top of the circle when he caught that pass. And like many of the others, this one follows the Canadian's tradition of great goaltending. Here's a shot and a nice long save by Patrick Roy. 20-year-old Patrick Roy from Quebec City wasn't even expected to be the goalie in the series. But the very first night of the playoffs, he was named first star.

Patrick Roy! The tougher the situation, the greater the challenge, the better he gets. If I have a bad game or things like that, I like to come back and come back really tough and have a good game and especially at the start it's really important. And Doug Wilson rifles it, rebound! Oh what a save by Patrick Waugh! You're gonna see that one again a couple of times folks. Stand by! That was an apathetic save.

I haven't seen one like that in a long time. It could have gone in and he gets a standing ovation. Wow! He could have gone in and he gets his standing ovation. Wow. Me, when I do a promotion or a parade or everything, I go and I want to have fun. And I think it's the thing that's more important because hockey player, you know, sometimes 10 years, they say it's pretty long, I'm playing and everything. But if you don't have fun, you better stop.

I loved him. I loved watching him. I loved his fire. I loved everything about him. What was it like coaching Patrick? Well, for me, it was a great period of my time of coaching for sure because when you've got a athlete like that it doesn't happen a lot in your career when you got a hall of famer so i have to take advantage of it

and of course which is was fun with patrick i was bringing him a lot of new idea because we have to change the style we have to change the style i didn have to change the style. I didn't want to coach him. I didn't want to coach him like in the 70s or 60s. When I come with him in the 80s, I said, okay, Patrick, first thing we're going to do, we're not talking about the past. We're talking about the future. I want you to play like a goalie in the 2000s.

At that time in 1984, that was a kind of looking to the future and say 2000 was a big number and that's what we tried to do so i was i was bringing some new idea to patrick and patrick was really really strong as an athlete to say i like it or i don't like it i try it or don't try it and sometime and i think that was the the best quality of patrick sometime when he likes something he could put it in his game the same night so that was amazing the speed of his brain to say i like it that's going to bring something in my game i'm going to try it right now tonight so not a lot of guy can do that and i think that's one of the reasons probably the reason why patrick freud becomes so dominant in few years you know early in his career he

was already a star now what was the biggest fight you and patrick ever got in that's a good question we got many fights i know i want to hear like want to hear it. I'd love to know because, you know... I mean, we were in a funny situation because I was a young coach. He was a young goalie. You know, I tried to bring different things that didn't exist in reality and that's just the first time i got a goalie who got the size and got the desire to do that to try it so sometimes of course we have to argue and i have to go in the video and maybe when i got a comment from patrick i have to go back and video and watch games and games and say well he's right or no's not right. So we have to argue all the time about different things. But like I told you, Patrick was strong enough as an athlete to say no,

but he was strong enough to say yes. So that was his biggest quality. What can I say, Patrick? It's everything good possible for a young coach because he really helped me out to develop my mentality and develop my style and develop my the kind of coach I become where was that inspiration from for that type of style because that Patrick why you know that butterfly style I mean there's elements of certainly Glenn Hall in there there's elements of Tony Esposito

in there as well. How did you, Francois, put that all together for Patrick? The first thing is when Patrick came with me in the American League, I think I was the first guy who tell him, Patrick, you like to stop the puck on uni? We're going to stop the puck on uni. And that's the first time somebody told you that because everybody else was kind of, okay, stand up, cover your angle. That's what you hear at that time. And now, even Montreal at that time gave him tapes of Bernie Perrin, Haley Lindbergh, those guys who for Patrick got no relation really for what he wants to do and

For the first time somebody said hey Patrick you love it. We're gonna do it not just one We're gonna make twice ten times twenty times as long you feel You're good and this position you like this woman you like to stop the puck with your pads on yet let's go let's do it that's bring some problem for sure the problem was the equipment wasn't good for a butterfly goalie the equipment was built for stand-up bully so every time Patrick was going on yes the five oh was open his pants wasn't touching each other his knee was available for shots so there was a lot of problem to the other thing was the chest protector were not good enough to stop the puck with your upper body because everybody nobody stopped

the puck with their upper body people were stopping the puck with their glove and blocker but now when you decide to go butterfly on every shot, even one-timer from 10 feet, you need protection for your upper body because you have to stop the puck with your shoulder, with your chest, with your elbow. So at the same time, we were trying to develop this kind of movement to stop the puck. We have to work on our equipment because the equipment was in proper shape for those kind of movement to step the puck we have to work on our equipment because the

equipment wasn't proper shape for those kind of goalies so that was a lot of brainstorming at that time and you know francois that everybody accused you and patrick and chaguer of making the equipment too big right well we never make too big we just go to what was available rule wise because that was the thing like you almost became too successful like they said okay goals are down we have to change this and so you know it's interesting when you look back at your career francois you changed the nhl in a lot of ways you helped make this style popular and then you went at the equipment to the point where the league had to come back and say we got to dial it back because these goalies are getting too successful yeah for sure uh you know that's bringing a lot of uh thinking on on both side of the business because my job was to make sure the guy can

stop the puck at the same time there is a business who likes to score a goal because the people are exciting about it so um yeah that's been some battle but that's wasn't my battle my battle was how can i make the goalie better so that was the only thing i was uh thinking about i wasn't my battle. My battle was how can I make the goalie better? So that was the only thing I was thinking about. I wasn't concerned about their battle. You know, you had a lot of interesting guys. You had Jaguar, you had Luongo, you had Patrick, as we talked about. A lot of really, really strong personalities. Like you talked about how Wa was willing to listen

and also willing to say, hey, I agree with this. I disagree with this. Were all those guys like that? Or were there some of them that you had to say, no, we're doing it this way, whether you like it or not? You know what? When you develop as a coach, you know, when I was starting with patrick i

was a pretty young coach i was 27 in the nhl so you know at that time i was the youngest coach of course i was forming myself i was trying to form guys and i got a you know some success too right away with the guy in the american league because we win the best average four years in the american league so my guy were doing well as well but i was developing something with patrick i was trying to teach that to the kids in the minors and plus all the guys who were coming in my hockey school so i was really in the in the period of the time where i was learning a lot about my job, learning a lot about the drills, learning a lot about a lot of stuff I can do on the ice.

And I was learning a lot about stats. At that time, not too many people look at where the puck was scoring, where the goal was coming from that side or that side were scores. So all those stats I developed at that time were brand new, and I was able to give it to my goalies so they understand the game a little bit better. But after 15 years or 20 years, I was really more solid as a coach. I could say to the guy, okay, this is the way it is. This is the way it is. We're going gonna do that.

Instead of taking you five years to make the NHL, it's gonna take two years to make the NHL. So after more times, when I, basically when I came with the Ducks, I was pretty much solid in my coaching. I was really confident in my coaching and I can't bring guys in the NHL in a hurry and i can't bring guys in the nhl in a hurry i can bring guys you know like jigger get trade half a season after he was number one for us

martin gerber came in the nhl from switzerland you know right off the bat he was he was a good goalie in the nhl he was one of the best probably the best backup in the league why because we got shortcut we know how to get shortcuts uh in a hurry so um at the beginning that was a lot of process to yes no yes no at the end a little bit less because i knew a little bit no, yes, no. At the end, a little bit less because I knew a little bit better and I could teach the guy faster and quicker. You changed the game and you revolutionized the position. Certainly, I know you'll always sort of digress to the athletes themselves, whether it's Patrick Warr or J.S. Jaguar, but you profoundly changed the way that the position has been played and your effect is still being felt in the NHL right now. There are a lot of people, most notably people like Kevin Woodley from In

Goal magazine. Mike McKenna's talked about this as well. The idea of a spot being open for you in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Goalie coaches as members of the hockey hall of fame do you have a thought on that well listen there is different people who talk to me about that and this is not my decision you know when you look at all the people in the hall of fame that's top brand people i don't know if i deserve to be there it's not me who's going to decide it. Just the people talking to me, it's already an honor. So it's good for me. You know, I'm kind of patient about it.

I don't want to get excited about it. It takes me 35 years to get Hall of Fame in media AAA where I was coaching back in the 80s no so that kind of business you have to be really patient and I got the Hall of Fame for junior major in Quebec at the beginning when I started you know that was even not a job yeah they call you assistant coach, and now they call everybody goalie coach or goalie consultant or whatever. So the profession is getting better.

The profession is getting more reward. The profession is getting more money now. So it's going in the right direction for the business, for my job in general. So I'm happy about that. Who is the best goalie coach in the All direction for a business for my job in general so i'm happy about that who is the best goalie coach in the aler family well we got two different styles uh so um i think uh benoit is pretty good. He brings a lot of enthusiasm and fun in his practice. So it's good when you have guys for a long period of time, like Longquist. I think Longquist never got a slump.

He has been really consistent over the years. And me, my job was more because I got different guys, and I tried to develop a lot of guys in a hurry. So it's two different approach, I can say. And I think both are good. I really respect what Bernoulli is doing right now. He's doing a great job and now he's going to have to coach two new kids with the Rangers. So that's going to be interesting to see.

new kids with the uh the rangers so that's going to be interesting to see do you ever text him or call him francois and say the easy stuff is over you know henrik isn't there anymore and now we're really going to find out how good you are well you know that's happened to me too when uh you know patrick got trade and i got just late smooth was 21 everybody would say well now roy is not there and the season i've been with jose was one of his best season and after that when i i really got the challenge with uh when i got to the ducks where the ducks are basically uh expansion team uh only the fourth season and i got guillermo who went to the all-star team and mikhail challenge cuff who have been the first draft pick in the expansion draft the year after so so yeah that's that's what's challenging and that's the kind of challenge you like as a coach and prove yourself so that's what's good for me to, you know, as good as it was for me to have Patrick on board,

that's what's good for me to have the possibility to work with different people and see how far I can go in my profession. And the other thing I just wanted to ask you was, I wanted to ask you about the two of the Florida guys. Like, I don't know exactly, like, if you've done research on them yet, Francois, so let us know if you haven't. But obviously you've seen Bobrovsky.

He had a tough year last year. Bill Zito knows Bobrovsky from his days in Columbus and he believes in him. I just wondered if you shared any intel with the Panthers on him and have you seen much of Spencer Knight, who's a brilliant prospect that they have in their system?

Well, I just started recently to watch Spencer Knight. You know, of course, he's going to be part of the conversation in the future. Boborski, I watched him a couple of times. I'm not enough to tell you exactly if there was something to change or not. Like I say, we are really happy about having on board Rob Tallis and Leo Luongo. And we're going to expand their role. We're going to try to expand their role and make sure those guys can really have an impact inside the organization. have an impact inside the organization.

So right now we're all talking about different possibilities, different stuff. I got many, many contacts with Roberto right now. Of course, Bill Zito have been involved at the beginning, but now he got so many things to do. He let us do our stuff right now. But we're active, we're active, and we try to find a way to do it better for the entire organization, not just for one guy.

But make sure you know the organization. The guy who are inside the organization will get better, and the guy who are coming in will have the best world possible for the nhs so that's that's the kind of stuff we're talking about right now so that's going to be interesting a lot of imagination and it looks like when i start to coach in the pro i have to use my imagination a lot. And it looks like this new adventure with goaltending excellence department, I think the imagination will be really important as well. So that's something that really stimulates me right now. We're sure you're going to do an excellent job.

I want to close with a quick question, Francois, about height. And there are a couple of goaltenders that are under six feet in the NHL. And we think of Anton Hudobin, who went to the Stanley Cup final and Yaroslav Halak and Yussi Saros. But is the day of the smaller goaltender over? Is it possible to be a small goaltender anymore? And if not, what is the cutoff height for a goaltender in your estimation if indeed there is one listen if you're not as tall as the other people you have to be exceptional in something so there is people who still have something exceptional they read the play better they are better to stop the first

shot better than the other one and those guys will have their place in the nhl there's no doubt about that but as you see if you take the number and you see the progression of the eight of the goalie since the 60s to today there is a clear indication that in the business, as goalie, it's going bigger and bigger and taller and taller. So that's the way it is. It's like, you know, sometimes people told me, yes, but there is some good small goalie. Yes, there is.

You know, Maurice Richard, when he was playing, was was 170 pounds and now it's not what we see in hockey there is bigger guys faster guy good shot so there is a progression but it's not just in hockey it's all the sport you see the tennis player it's the same thing you see the the football players same thing everybody is going bigger and taller because the the population in general is going bigger and taller so the athletes are going in the same direction that's the way it is but if i come back to your question first of course a small guy will have his place has to be exceptional in something is it possible to be too big to play net effectively i don't think so you know if i think at the beginning you know there was some guy coming up in the i've seen some

guy in the minors or in europe six seven six eight and they don't look like comfortable yeah but those guys grow up so fast and so quick, they don't look good at the beginning. But when you look at that, after a couple of years, they find themselves, their body got more in control, and I think their muscle got, you know, better understanding of what they are and how to set the park, and they become a good goalie. I think those tall guys, we have to give them a little bit more time to fix everything up their balance their strengths their push their their movement their coordination so there was a little bit more

job for those guys. Fascinating conversation. Francois, thanks so much for taking time today to talk to us. We really appreciate it. Okay. Thank you very much, guys. We thank Francois Allaire for stopping by the program this week. We thank the Florida Panthers for making him available as well. Where do you fall?

I don't know that we've ever spoken about this one. Where do you fall? I don't know that we've ever spoken about this one. In Goal Magazine has talked about Francois Allaire going into the Hall of Fame, that he belongs there. Mike McKenna we had on Hockey Central, I can't remember, however many months ago, and he mentioned it as well. When you dig back in towards the mid-'80s, early-'90s,

Francois Allaire revolutionized the game. The work he did with Patrick Waugh, 1885-86, coming on, winning one Stanley Cup there, continuing on to the work he did in Anaheim with Hugh Berkey as well, and also with Jaguar there. You know, it changed it. It brought the butterfly in. It brought an analytical approach to the game.

Goalies weren't playing by the seat of their pants. And especially Allaire Korn, the longevity of their career and the number of goalies that they've worked with, of their pants, and especially a layer of corn, the longevity of their career and the number of goalies that they've worked with, the Vezinas they've produced, the Stanley Cups they've won, you know, when you look at the builder category, they fit the role to a tee, if you ask me.

Where is Elliott Friedman on the idea of goalie coaches being recognized by the hall? Why not? I'm with you. Listen, the most impressive thing for some people coaches being recognized by the hall. Why not? I'm with you. Listen, the most impressive thing for some people is how, you know, here's Francois Allaire, who is the most influential goalie coach, changed the game. Everybody sort of winks at what he did with Patrick Waugh because everybody to a lesser or greater extent plays that same style now as that position recreated itself.

And Francois Allaire didn't play in the NHL. Like the first goalie coach ever in the history of the NHL was Dennis DiGiordi, who after he wrapped it up with the Detroit Red Wings was hired as a goalie coach to help amongst other goaltenders, Jim Rutherford. I think it might've been Alex Dalvecchio who hired him. I don't think it was Ned Harkness. I think it was afterwards. But nonetheless, that was the first one.

And that was right after he finished playing. But here's someone that opened a lot of doors because here's a goalie coach that's, you know, turning, you know, Patrick Waugh into a Hall of Famer, winning J.S. Jaguar, not only Stanley Cups, but Conn Smythe trophies in losing causes. Here's someone who influenced that position. You can make the argument more than anybody maybe in the history of the game. So that's why I like it. That's why I like it a lot. The argument against it is, well, we don other quote-unquote non-head coaches into the hall of fame how many assistant coaches elliot do you know that go into the the hockey hall of fame mike

nicolac was the first assistant coach ever the pioneer the trailblazer fred shiro and the philadelphia flyers he's not going into the hall of fame why do we give another non-head coach the nod into the hall? Well, the thing is, I don't like that argument. Just because you've never done something before doesn't mean you shouldn't do it later. I think that's a terrible, terrible argument. But what I do feel is that Mike Nikolak was the first assistant coach, right? But was he incredibly successful over a long period of time?

It's hard to quantify because he's not the head coach. Do you think rick bonus should be in the hockey hall of fame i do but i put that premium on longevity and and the the amount of players that he's able to turn into like defensemen specifically like what what what what france what francois lair has been able to do for goaltenders i would look look at Rick Bonas and say, okay, sure, he didn't spend the most amount of time behind the bench in the head coaching capacity, but what he's been able to do for defensemen, and most recently in well-documented,

not just the defenseman on the Dallas Stars, but Victor Hedman, one of the best defensemen in the game, maybe the best defenseman in the game right now. Yeah, I put Rick Bonas in the Hall of Fame too. How many successful teams has he been on? Like this is the other thing here. To me, it's not only developing defenseman, Jeff, but he was part of that Vancouver team that was excellent

and went to a Stanley Cup final and lost game seven. Tampa. He was part of a Tampa team that went to the Stanley Cup final and lost game six to Chicago in 2015. He's coached this Dallas team that went to the Stanley Cup final and lost in game six to Tampa this year. So it's not only that he develops defensemen, it's that he's been in three Stanley Cup finalists.

I'm really curious, if we can get back here talking about Allaire, I'm really curious what happens now with Sergei Bobrovsky. And Sergei Bobrovsky with Ian Clark in Columbus was outstanding. And talking to one person in the goalie community, I remember saying,

why was he so successful in Columbus? and essentially what happened this year in Florida? And this person said to me, here's what happened. There was a structure that was put in place by Ian Clark with Sergey Bobrovsky, but he also allowed his athleticism to come out. he wasn't married to a rigid style as well. And then Clark leaves and then Bobrovsky leaves Columbus, goes to the new market. So almost like everything conspired against Bobrovsky last season. I'll be curious to see how this group, Talis, Luongo, Allaire,

handle Sergei Bobrovsky next season and what goaltender he's able to become. Maybe he's that same guy. I think also Columbus was a more airtight defensive team than Florida was. True. And I think that's a big deal. You know, Columbus, detail oriented,

defensive team. One of the things that Florida clearly feels is they need to overhaul the way they play a bit and the way they defend a bit. So I think that's a factor too. I think the other thing I wonder about is we mentioned a name in the interview, Spencer Knight, their first round draft pick a year ago. How is he going to feel about Bobrovsky being there for six more years?

Well, I always said that when Rick DiPietro signed that 15-year deal with the New York Islanders. How would you like to be a goaltender in the Islanders system now when the number one goaltender is locked up for 15 years? It's got to be incredibly frustrating if you're Spencer Knight and you say, okay, how am I going to wiggle open this door to get some sunlight in? I don't know.

But I'll tell you what, man. Spencer Knight's a hell of a goaltender. Going to be a good question. Don't know the answer. We shall stand by to find it out. Once again, we thank Francois Allaire for stopping by the podcast this week. More podcasts next week.

We will have a player interview and an update on what's happening between the NHL and the Players Association on their return to play for, fingers crossed, next season. Thanks as always to our producer, Emil Delic, on behalf of Elliot Friedman, Jeff Merrick, signing off. Have a wonderful rest of your weekend and we'll reconvene next week. Class dismissed. Class dismissed. At least they're burning down, they're burning down my door All my loss of education lying on the floor And they're coming and they're coming like they've come before

I'm a cognitive and a cognitive and I'm on my own In a world, it's a homicide In a world, it's a homicide In a world It's a homicide In a world Yeah Hold on, hold on, hold on Hold on two seconds Francois, you still there?

Yeah, I'm still here So I'm done? Yeah, you're all good You're all good Just before you start talking against me I'm about to hang up I was going to say In case he's still there I'm not going to rip him yet I'm going to wait for you to come before you start talking against me i'm better to hang up i'm just gonna say

casey's still there i'm not gonna rip them yet i'm gonna wait for you okay guys thank you uh cbmrc i hang up thank you thank you thank you