32 Thoughts: The Podcast - The State of Women’s Hockey

Episode Date: March 25, 2021

The National Women’s Hockey League is set to return to play this weekend in Massachusetts to give out the Isobel Cup to one of the four remaining teams. Marisa Ingemi of NBC Sports and Sportsnet joins the podcast to talk about the leagues return to play, the relationship between the NWHL and PWHPA, the NHLs […]

Today the league announced that the completion of the National Women's Hockey League Isabel Cup playoffs will take place March 26th and 27th. But it will not be returning to Lake Placid. The final three games will be played at Warrior Ice Arena in Brighton, Massachusetts, which is the home of the Boston Bruins training facility. Much like the Herb Brooks Arena, no fans will be in attendance at either the semifinals or championship games. However, the games will still be shown on the NBC Sports Network, much like it was scheduled to do

just one month ago. While there are only four teams and three games left, the NWHL and Warrior Ice Arena will have strict health protocols in place, which will include daily COVID-19 testing, which will be administrated to all players and staff. Welcome to 31 Thoughts to Podcast, presented by the GMC Sierra AT4, Jeff Merrick alongside Elliot Friedman. And Elliot, we are pleased today to be talking about the state of the women's game right now in advance of the NWHL and their championship weekend in Boston. Our special guest is Marissa Ingemi.

She works for NBC Sports and Sportsnet as well. And first of all, Marissa, thanks so much for joining us today and taking time out of what is a busy day in advance of this weekend. I'll open up with a wide brush question that may have a wide brush answer or you may want to get out a fine brush and paint with it. How would you describe the state of the women's game today? Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it's kind of wild because it feels like so much has happened in the past couple of years since the CWHL folded two years ago now, but it also feels like there hasn't been that much like actual meaningful progress. So it's so tricky because like now the pwhpa is a thing and they got on national tv and nwhl is going to be on national tv for the first time and these are steps towards progress but what are they moving towards exactly like the pwhpa always brings up the nhl and kind of centers them in those conversations and as we all know the nhl has said several times it's not happening right now it's not happening while the NWHL is there.

They've moved the goalposts a couple of times back when it was a CWHL and the NWHL was always, oh, when there's only one league, and now there was one league, and then the PWHPA came in. So a lot's always happening, but it's never really like any actual meaningful progress, it feels like. So that can be kind of frustrating just from the perspective of someone who follows a lot of women's hockey, obviously, and wants to see some meaningful progress it feels like so that can be um kind of frustrating just from the perspective of someone um who follows a lot of women's hockey obviously and wants to see some meaningful progress here it just feels like we don't know where it's actually going the nwhl is growing the nwhl is expanding but the top players haven't shown any more interest in joining it at any point it's a pretty hard line in the sand it's not happening even um nwhl former commissioner the founder danny ryland stepped down earlier this week um which was a whole thing in and of itself pretty hard line in the sand. It's not happening. Even NWHL former commissioner, the founder,

Danny Ryland, stepped down earlier this week, which was a whole thing in and of itself. But a lot of people like to speculate maybe that will create kind of a bridge. It's not. We've seen some changes in the messaging from the NWHL. Now they're calling for more of a collaboration with the PWHPA. That didn't happen until pretty recently and the pwhpa when they do acknowledge the nwhl it's nothing good and most of the time they don't even talk about it existing so it doesn't really feel like we're getting any closer to anything but uh there's certainly news all the time so it's one of those things it feels like if there is any meaningful progress we're definitely not really seeing it at the forefront right now. I've always believed the NHL's position is not to be seen as acting on the side of one side over another.

Like the two entities have to sort it out before they'll get involved. Do you still believe that's their default position? I think their default position is they're not interested and they're going to move the goalposts as much as they can. They have the WNHL trademark since what like 1991 or something um they've had an opportunity to get involved long before the NWHL was a thing in 2015 the CWHL wasn't paying its players they could have stepped in and showed an interest back then they didn't something that kind of gets lost in the conversation sometimes is the NWHl's really pushed this conversation they were the first league to get players paid and that pushes cwhl push the pwhpa players looking for more too

and that effort from them like that doesn't happen if the nwhl isn't there in the first place so that's also pushed the nhl to have to answer questions about it these past couple of years now but if they had an interest in stepping in at any given point they could have we've seen some individual teams step up obviously like the r Rangers and the Blackhawks. Now the Blues, with the PWHPA, the Rangers have done some stuff in the NWHL still, too. The Bruins have been involved with the Pride. I think, like, the league's kind of leaving it up to the teams for now. But, I mean, at any given point, the NHL can step in and change the entire landscape, like, overnight if they really wanted to.

So given that that could have happened at any point, it can happen at any point, the NHL can step in and change the entire landscape like overnight if they really wanted to so uh given that that could have happened at any point it can't happen at any point I just think it would have happened by now and um yeah forever and ever they can say well this is happening and that's happening and they're going to have a reason not to for as long as they want I'm glad you mentioned the uh the PWHPA and the um the relationships with various NHL teams and most recently as you mentioned the St. Louis Blues, and we've seen games in Chicago and New York, and there is a relationship with the PWHPA and the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Many look at that and say that winks at a bigger relationship, not just with those teams, but with the league itself. Agree or disagree, or just meet that statement with skepticism how do you see that marissa i think the pwhpa itself wants that framing to be what comes out of it but i mean like some of those teams are talking to the nwhl too like the rangers are still working with the whale and the riveters quite a bit so it's not as cut and dry and i mean the bruins have been involved with the pride the savers owned the Buttes for a minute there, and then they sold them. The Devils had a relationship with the Riveters. So it's really complicated. And I really think it's more team by team than anything. Because again, we don't really see any like official NHL messaging at any of this. We see like the Maple Leafs doing what they're doing, like Mitch Marder wearing a hoodie or whatever. We see the Rangers having comments when they do. But there hasn't been an at-large NHL messaging for the PWHPA here. One of his quotes was, we're waiting to let this sort itself out. Not sure what that means. It's vague.

It does hint at what you were saying about, you know, kicking the can down the road on this one. Do you think that the NHL in their mind has an idea that these two leagues, the NWHL and the PWHPA are somewhere down the road going to get together to at least see if there is some type of common ground? If they do, I'm not sure they're paying attention too closely to that relationship because, I mean, the PWHPA is not interested. They've made that clear a number of times now. I think time will run out on the PWHPA quicker than it does on the NWHL

because Olympics and centralization and so much of on the PWHPA quicker than it does on the NWHL because Olympics and centralization and so much of what the PWHPA puts out there has to do with national team players for USA and Canada. So what's going to happen in an Olympic cycle coming up? Are they still going to be able to play? Are they still going to be able to have their tour? How much are they going to prioritize their non-Olympic players? Because they really haven't done that up to this point anyways. And then you look too at how many players from the 2018 Olympic run who are definitely going to retire at some point here. How much more do they want to go forward after the 2022 Olympics?

So they're going to be up against it a little bit first year. The NWHL hasn't shown any signs of slowing down. They don't seem to really care what's going on on that other side. They are pushing for more of a collaboration now than they have before. I'm not really sure what they're getting at there um other than maybe optics um especially since the pwhpa often won't acknowledge the nwhl they talk about nobody existing i think sometimes the messaging coming from the nw can be just optically like look we're not going to do that but yeah i mean i think

time will run out on the pwhpa first and i'm not sure the nhl has any intent of stepping in before something like that i think when they say working it out they mean something more like when the cwhl went under if you remember a couple years ago their whole messaging was well we can't support two leagues when there's one we'll do it right and then they had the opportunity to do that they didn't the cwhl went under when they're waiting for stuff to play out like that i don't think they mean they're waiting to see who the ultimate winner of the Hunger Games is here and they will all of a sudden care about it. So I think it's a lot like to use your term, they're keeping the can down the road. I'm not really sure they have any intent or any plan to step in.

It's very much a wait and see what happens. Do you think it's a big deal that the players or the two groups still don't see eye to eye yeah i mean i think that everyone in women's hockey and women's sports in general agrees with what the pwhpa wants in the sustainable league um everyone to feel like a full-time athlete all the time to feel like a pro athlete all the time i think players in the nwhL agree with that. I think the NWHL as a whole agrees with the messaging too. Like that's never been the issue here. The issue here has always been the PWHPA players, they still, they want to push for the NHL to be involved. That's kind of the end of the day, what it is. And as long as the NWHL exists, which has successfully, like they've gone through going into year seven, now they have to get through year six this week,

but they're going into their seventh year having done this basically without nhl support and they push this entire conversation so they don't really feel a need for that to happen but for players who they want to be on tv right now all that type of stuff and the pwhpa isn't the nwhl so that's what they're going for um but then you look at too like the scheduling for example so many players have left the pw to go back to the NW because there just aren't that many games. Like, you can look at some, even the Team USA players, some of their performances dropped off because they don't have a consistent schedule, especially some of the goalies. We see that happening. And obviously now with COVID, that's more complicated. But even last year, the schedule wasn't as consistent. Players who aren't going to be like a shoe-in for Team USA don't get the same prioritization. So in some ways the players are looking for different things. I think they all agree on the general messaging,

but some of them just are prioritizing. They want to play right now. They don't want to play hoping in a couple of years for the NHL to step in. They want to go play a game for their hometown team right now and get compensated too because remember, PWHpa players still aren't being compensated they're getting some of the salary they're getting merchandise sales but we don't have official numbers on anything like that they don't really share much of the information on that but at the end of the day players who are there aren't being compensated still i'm curious marissa about um the pressure

point moment for the pwhpa because as you, the NWHL is carrying on as they've done business for the last number of years. But for the PWHPA, is there a couple of things? And you mentioned centralization and what happens to the remainder of the PWHPA who aren't centralized with their country teams. I wonder when the ultimate pressure point comes for the PWHPA and is it the Olympics? Like if something doesn't happen around the Olympics or immediately after the Olympics, how much does this entire dynamic change in your estimation? I think it could be significant. I mean, my understanding is there's frustration from especially some of the American players that there haven't been as much progress there. I mean, the NHL partnerships are cool, but at the end of the day, like when's progress going to happen? These players are sacrificing like actual playing time, actual training time, a lot of the time. And again, especially players who aren't in the Olympics. So I think there could

be a turning point, say when the Olympics come, when centralization comes, like how much does the PWHPA carry on? How much do they provide opportunity for their non-Olympic players? I think we've already seen players get cut a few times and still like kind of discouraged from going to play elsewhere. So I think there is a boiling point there at some point to players who aren't going to be on Olympic team to really think about like, are they really being prioritized? Are they really being taken care of? Are they going to get the same type of opportunities or is this like a country club for the national team players like at some point there's going to be a conversation about that and I mean the PWHPA hasn't been super transparent with a lot of the scheduling so who knows when it happens like we're kind of finding

out about these events as they happen and again because of COVID obviously it makes it more difficult for them to schedule. But that was kind of the case last year too. Like we didn't really know some of the touring details. I know like they're trying to do an event in Calgary, but the Canadian teams, a lot of them haven't even had the opportunity to skate yet. So at some point it has to,

we have to figure out, is this a collection of volunteer players spreading a message or is this an attempt at a pro league? What direction do they actually want to go in? And some point it's been two years now maybe the olympics pushes that conversation a little bit more but yeah at some point rubber's gonna hit the road and we're gonna have to figure out like what is the point of this marissa i'd like to talk about uh danny rylan kearney when she first stepped away before they announced her separation this week, my opinion of her is that I know she's a controversial figure, but she's a huge figure in the history of women's hockey.

She got her league to work, and that's not an insignificant thing. She battled hard, and she accomplished something that is hard to do. And I know there's no middle ground with her. Either you really like her or you really don't like her, but I really admired what she accomplished. I thought what she did was a big deal. How do you feel? Yeah, kind of in the same boat there of like uh starting a professional sports league is tough starting a professional women's sports league is even tougher and i mean we all see the climate

of women's hockey like jumping into that it's just like so much to deal with um on top of like starting a business and all that so like i mean again the nwhl has really pushed the conversation they've really pushed this entire thing because the cwhl was around for a while and it was pretty stagnant and it was a place to play sure but it wasn't really progressing anything they are still weren't being compensated until the NWHL stepped in and the whole conversation has gone from there so yeah she deserves a lot of credit for that and she also deserves criticism for the way the salaries were cut in season two and some of those relationships and those burnt bridges like 100% some of that is like definitely on her um and i definitely don't

blame anyone especially who felt burnt by that for um just like not being all in on her for sure and that's where the controversy lies like she's done all this good to push the conversation in the game and then obviously some of the nwhl history especially with transparency like not the best track record either so i think sometimes sometimes she's just such a controversial figure, like you said, just so polarizing. A lot of people kind of put her at the epicenter of these conversations where it doesn't necessarily all have to do with her. Her stepping away, not being involved anymore, I don't really find as a surprise. It seems like the new regime's kind of been pushing her out since Taminia took over as commissioner in october um it really feels like um the boyntons and the investors in the league are really uh pushing for this a new face of the

league and trying to um not push aside the rest of the history but definitely they don't want it to be at the center of the conversations and i don't think that's possible if danny was still there so definitely an interesting week to reflect on what she's done for the game and where the game is at in relation to her and the good and the bad but yeah just like a prolific figure in the game and definitely like it's very weird to look at the nwhl and think about it without her in some sort of leadership position you mentioned tyler tominia um and that's someone that we've had on the podcast here and she is a a new big personality on the scene what are your thoughts and you mentioned she's only been in this capacity going going back to october what what are

your thoughts on tyler tominia yeah in some ways she inherited a lot of um just the lore of the league kind of like the background and stuff and i like i do not envy anyone having to catch up on the whole history of all of this and then stepping in and being in a decision-making position and then in other ways she's obviously like right at the forefront of everything and like placid to me this is someone who's worked uh covering the league for six years now the biggest change has been just like the whole feel around her it has like a more corporate feel um it's definitely someone who hasn't had the history in women's hockey like she comes from minor league baseball and you can tell um and that's not like an insult or a compliment it's just it's a lot different it's not the i mean because you look at someone

like rylan she was a college hockey player just involved in hockey uh knows everyone um just super involved in the hockey element of it and i mean this happens uh it can be a good thing like i look at something like the national lacrosse league and they had a major league soccer executive involved in the hockey element of it. And I mean, this happens, it can be a good thing. Like I look at something like the National Lacrosse League, and they had a major league soccer executive come in as commissioner, and it just totally turned that league around, because they needed someone who wasn't like so deeply into lacrosse, they couldn't really see past that. So I mean, when I saw Tamini was coming in, that was kind of what my hope was for the NWHL was like, okay, someone can step in, who doesn't have that whole background and won't be hung up on it

but one thing that's really changed that's extremely noticeable is just the pushing for being in a conversation with the PWHPA acknowledging them on social media not saying they shouldn't acknowledge them or anything like the PWHPA does that all the time to the NWHL and it's like it's kind of really weird but just that general vibe is so different. Like they're not trying to disagree with the PWHPA. They're trying to just like generally push for that sort of collaboration. So that really seems to be a lot of the messaging that's many is pushing. I don't know how much influence comes from the investors and the Boyntons and miles are known.

It really feels like they have a lot of this day and the power and what happens in that league. And to many is kind of at the face of it too it's a totally different vibe like you talk to players and um it's a lot different it's a little more hands-off than rylan was at least from a player perspective so i think this next year we're really going to learn about like what kind of direction and vision she has for the league in particular uh you had a big scoop this week montreal tell us about it yeah um so it's been the talks for a while obviously like if you remember um after the cwhl folded the nwhl had a press conference the conference call a couple weeks later where they announced an intent to expand to toronto

and montreal and then that never ended up happening mostly because people in canada like just weren't ready to move on from the cWHL yet and uh the PWHPA stepped in and I think from everything I understand like the NWHL was ready to work with the Canadians and then the Montreal Canadians and then the PWHPA stepped in and they were kind of garnering for some of that NHL help and they had just a large contingent of um notable players and that just kind of shook the hockey world and they weren't able to do it quite yet. And now we see Toronto happening in that same ownership group

between the Boyntons and Arnone who also have stake in Boston as well. Arnone more runs Boston and Boynton's Toronto, but it's the same ownership group still. What's interesting to me is there's such a push, at least publicly, at least with their messaging of trying to sell the four teams

owned by the Women's Hockey Partners Group, which is connecticut minnesota the riveters and buffalo um there's such a push for them to get independent ownership and they bring in this montreal team that technically has independent ownership but it's basically these two different groups running the league now and power struggle is the wrong word but there's certainly um a different school of thought for both groups as well so you bring in another team um with this point in our known group and you have the canadian presence and i think the hope there is to draw in some of these pwhpa canadian players who have this place to play now because some of the messaging has been they have no place to play well here's the team in montreal um i was kind of interested to see if there would be any relationship with the former

CWHL Montreal folks, and there doesn't appear to be, at least on the surface. So it should be interesting, and it's women's hockey after all, so there's a lot of time for a lot of stuff to happen between now and season seven. So we'll see how they want to roll that out, and maybe if there's a second team. I know a lot of people are pushing for eighth teams, and my understanding is they're trying to talk to a couple of different markets, but I don't think they want to go in with the same ownership group bringing in two teams here. So these next few months will be pretty interesting. This may be the whopper of the questions on the podcast today, but Marissa, what do you think this game needs right now? Everyone talks about there's a top of the mountain and everybody wants to get there i'm gonna tell you i think that question's

a big letdown after you're preamble to it well what does it need so there's so many different ways to approach that i mean you can look at like what your women's sports in general need and it's just like i don't know like general respect from people who cover from people who are around men's sports. Whenever you see kind of like women's hockey in the news. And one of the reasons I sometimes try to avoid talking with the big divide, like I wrote about it this week, obviously, because it's just like in the news and you can't avoid it. But one of the reasons I do try to is because so much of the conversation is around like what's wrong with women's sports, what's wrong with women's's hockey why doesn't work instead of focusing on making it work and focusing on just like covering it so to me like one of the big things that can progress women's sports and we see this in general is like the wnba women's college basketball that conversation going on this week too is just like

equal coverage um just like again like a general respect of just treating it like a sport and not a novelty to me ever since. I mean, I've been involved in the NHL and the NWHL. And the big takeaway always is in the NHL, we can sit down and talk about a game. We can talk about like, why is the Penguins goaltending the way it is? Why? What's going on with the Bruins? Five on five scoring, but you get to women's hockey and it's what's wrong. That conversation being constantly centered, I think doesn't really help perception. But part of that too, is under responsibility of the leagues and the entities to not just have like weird stuff going on all the time like the nwhl doesn't help itself with its lack of transparency

and they've gotten past some of the worst issues from season one and season two but then we see what happened in lake placid and we see them really not talking about they still haven't publicly announced like their covid protocols and i found a link on the website that had it publicly available. They just like haven't told anyone. So stuff like that doesn't help. So they can help themselves by just having transparency. I mean, I've been talking to the PWHPA folks for two years now and still don't have a clear answer of like, what does a sustainable league mean? Like all these buzzwords, but what does it mean? What are you directly looking for that can happen now in a meaningful way that isn't just code for can the NHL come save us because that's not going to happen and it's not really totally necessary either. So I mean part of it is like these leagues have to just

be very open and transparent. They have to answer the questions. They have to behave as a professional entity in their own right and then on the other end of the spectrum too like media folks just like people who have influence in the game just again treating it like a sport not a novelty not a sideshow not like oh these women are these girls are doing such a nice job good for them um some of the narratives are so tired and overused and the only ones we see like we hear stories about oh this player is a teacher okay well she's also like scores 100 career points and that's incredible and we can talk about that without talking about the other part too so again it's a broad question we could sit here and talk about it all day um and never really quite figure it out but to me just like

those are a couple of things that i just look at as like some progress could be made with like a little bit of transparency and a little bit of respect so you mentioned about talking about the games you know how good are the goalies things like that let So you mentioned about talking about the games, you know, how good are the goalies, things like that. Let's go. Let's talk about the games itself. Friday, Toronto, Boston, five Eastern time, Minnesota, Connecticut following the two winners compete for the Isabel Cup on Saturday.

What are you thinking, Marissa? I'm not asking you to tell me which wagers to place, but what are you thinking? When you have only two games for the championship right like the teams that get to the isabel cup will play only two games here like it kind of becomes a crap shoot a little bit um even like in lake placid um we saw like some of the trends go totally wild like boston was such a dominant team last year and they struggled out of the gate they blew four one nothing leads they couldn't expand on their leads that was so out of character for them and then they got going late they don't have time to wait around this time, so it's really

going to be like you have to put out your best performance for a chance to get to the Isabel Cup, and then you have to put out your best performance again. So looking at Boston-Toronto, Toronto's number one seed, but they're the least experienced team in the league. They're an expansion team going into the year. They only had three players within whl experience um and i think their leading player had like 15 years of experience so they're coming in without any uh postseason play at all in their history so we'll see how they come out of the gate is that an advantage that they almost like they are coming in without uh past history or are they coming in like just totally not knowing what to expect they have michaela grant mentis who is really becoming

the face of the league really fast she's someone someone who Team Canada really should have an eye on as well. She really opened a lot of eyes in Lake Placid. Then you have Boston, a team that's been there, a team that should have played in the Isabel Cup last year, if not for COVID. Best defender in the league in Kaylee Fratkin, best goalie in the league in Lavisa Salander, best scorers in the league between Jillian Dempsey and McKenna Brand. Digit Murphy, the head coach for Toronto, keeps calling the Six an underdog. And it's almost fair, given the star power that Boston has.

So that game's just going to be tremendous. And then you look at Minnesota-Connecticut. And Minnesota kind of feels overlooked, I'm sure, after making it to the Israel Cup last year as well. And they were the only team to beat Boston last year, and they were still being looked at as an underdog. Amanda Levier, one of the best goalies in league history, a veteran goalie in league history, a veteran

goalie in that, and she's been fantastic for years and years. Allie Penstrom on the top line, co-MVP from last year. And then Connecticut, who has been kind of the doormat of the league since day one, and they showed up in Lake Placid and looked better than they ever had. So it's kind of exciting to see what they're doing, and they've been overlooked a bit here. And Shannon Doyle, who's a day one NWHLer on the blue line she's playing in her last game before she retires so that's kind of a big deal rookie goalie Abby Ives has played really well they're going to get Melissa Stamsekevich back who's played some Team USA games with your U18 team and she wasn't up there in like Placid so she's going to provide a boost to Connecticut. So yeah, we're going to see some really great hockey.

If I had a bet, like I look at experience and I look at Boston and Minnesota and it almost feels like destiny is bringing them together at Warrior Ice Arena of all places where it should have been last year, once again. So the games are going to be fantastic. And it's definitely,

there's no shortage of storylines on the ice either. Out of all these four teams, just from an entertainment point of view, because there's no shortage of storylines on the ice either. Out of all these four teams, just from a, from an entertainment point of view, because you know, there's the game and there is winning, but as we've all seen in any level of hockey, you can win and be a very boring team. Hockey's kind of like that. If you were to pick one of these four teams and you said, this is, I don't know whether they're going to win or lose, but this is going to be the most exciting team of these four. Who would it be?

Probably Toronto. Just because they're so unique. They're super fast in all three zones. They just, like, they create so much. Like, there's something happening all the time in those games, it feels like. Grant Mentis, again, she's one of the most electric players in the league and in women's hockey in general right now. She's so fun to watch.

And then even, like, the top-defensing pair for Toronto between Taylor Woods and Lindsay Eastwood they create so much on offense like it just feels like anytime anyone on that team has the puck um they can score um Brooke Boquist and Emma Woods who missed the last couple of games due to COVID protocol and Lake Placid they're back in the lineup and they were playing really well especially Boquist who's a rookie um they're just super fun. It feels like every single shift with Toronto, they're a threat. And to me, they were the most enjoyable team

to watch during Old Placid. My last question for you, Marissa, is, you know, it's a bit of a different, it's more of a personal question. You worked for the Boston Herald for a long time. You covered the Bruins. That's where we first met. And, you know, through no fault of your own, the realities of the business, you found yourself out in the freelance world. You've been working for us. I saw your byline

recently in the New York Times. You know, I just wanted to ask you, how is it going? There's a lot of reporters out there and good journalists who are carving a new path, you know, whether it's sub stack or newsletters or kind of what you're doing, like, how are you doing? How, how was it all going for you? Yeah. I mean, it's better now than it was early on. I lost my job a year ago last week or next week, I'm sorry, which it feels like it happened yesterday. And it also feels like it happened a hundred years ago. Like so much has happened since and my life's changed entirely and so has everyone else's during this time but I've been pretty fortunate I've been able to freelance quite a bit I had a background in freelancing before I went to the Herald so I just kind of knew how to go about it and I'm really lucky that people like Sportsnet

and the New York Times reached out to me and wanted to work with me and create some stories so like my ultimate goal is I want to get back on an NHL beat. I miss it very much. And every day I'm kind of working towards getting back to that. But like I said, been really lucky to work with Sportsnet NBC came to me and like, that's been tremendous and covering women's basketball for the times now and doing stuff for Yahoo and five 38 as well.

I feel extremely lucky. I'm able to keep doing this and I'm able to keep working in sports journalism and creating a path forward. I know it's really difficult and it's not as easy for some folks, so I'm really grateful. But yeah, working every day to try to get back, getting back to the NHL in my version of that, I guess, because I miss it incredibly. And I love working on the Bruins beat and I miss it every day. But yeah, pretty lucky to be doing what I'm doing right now. Well, I'm glad to hear that because, you know, I think our business needs success stories.

There's a lot of tough stories. So I'm glad to hear you're doing well, Marissa, because our business needs to hear from young journalists that you can carve your path. So I, I'm glad to hear you're in a good place. Yeah, it's really hard. Like I wouldn't tell anyone it's easy. Like I talked to a college class, um, a couple of weeks ago about like, yeah, I'm not going to sit here and tell you like, go and do it because it's really hard. Like I wouldn't tell anyone it's easy. Like I talked to a college class a couple of weeks ago about like, yeah, I'm not going to sit here and tell you like go and do it because it's super

easy, but it's extremely hard. But like, if you want to do it, like you can do it. Good. I want to add one more thing. You're excellent. And we thank you for, for stopping by on the podcast. That was an outstanding snapshot. We really appreciate it.

Listen, enjoy the weekend as we all will as the NWHL gets their season completed. Thanks so much for this, Marissa. Yeah, thank you guys. I want to thank Marissa for stopping by the podcast. That was outstanding. Marissa is a very impressive journalist, and I think that was probably as thorough, Elliot, a snapshot of the industry right

now as you're going to get anywhere and the one thing that I was most curious about hearing her perspective on was the pressure point like we all know that this can't continue like this for another year two years three years whatever with both the PWHPA and the NWHL and no involvement from the National Hockey League and one side hurling daggers and ignoring the other. And we just know this isn't, as we keep hearing in hockey, this isn't sustainable. So I wonder at what point there has to be some movement where it gets forced. There is a moment in upcoming history where that's going to happen to me it feels like the olympics or immediately following the olympics so i was

glad that marissa addressed that issue as thoroughly as she did well first of all you're asked as a reporter to know your beat and there's no question that marissa knows her beat no question about that you know i think the olymp Olympics is a really interesting point because after that, everybody's going to be looking at, there's a lot of athletes after an Olympic cycle, they say, okay, am I ready to do this for four more years? It's not a question of wanting to, unless you're near the end of your career retirement age, you always want to compete, but is it viable? Is it financially feasible? Is it something that can really be done? And you know, a lot of players after Beijing next February are going to be asking that question.

Is it feasible for me to continue on another winter Olympic cycle? So I think that's a really good point. i also thought her perspective was interesting on like i don't know about you jeff but i just assume that eventually when it's down to one side the nhl is going to step in and do something about this it's clear she doesn't feel as strongly about that as you and i do that it's or I don't want to speak for you as I do I do think the league at some point will do it once they're down to one league Marissa clearly is not as certain she's been consistent about that like if anyone's followed her reporting for the longest time now she's always said look any conversation that's informed by the NHL is going to do something or

the NHL is going to step in just stop like that there's no indication from her point of view that that is going to be the case. So she's been consistent with that for a long time. We thank Marissa for stopping by the podcast today and hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as we did. Taking us out today, a musician from Victoria, British Columbia, and the daughter of 5440 frontman Neil Osborne. Candle has been putting out great music in the last 10 years, and she just released a new single, Honey Trap. With that track, here's Candle on 31 Thoughts, the podcast. Enjoy. I have no doubt You started up this game of cat and mouse

On the wrong side, a score for sudden death Hiding in the shadows from the heat of your breath Honey trap, wish I could take it back Who knew it could taste so bad? Honey trap, wish I could take it back, who knew it could taste so bad? Your silver tongue was your weapon of choice My body shivers at the timbre of your voice Running for the exit in nothing but your coach Choking on the secrets in the back of my throat.

Honey trap, wish I could take it back, who knew it could taste so bad? Honey trap, wish I could take it back, who knew it could take so long? To love you was too easy Not that it was true, but I believed it To love you was too easy. None of it was true, but I believed it. To love you was too easy. None of it was true, but I believed it.

To love you was too easy. My love, it was true, but I believed it.