32 Thoughts: The Podcast - There's a Deal There for Nylander

Episode Date: January 5, 2024

Jeff and Elliotte open the podcast by giving Sidney Crosby his flowers for an outstanding effort to beat out an icing call on Thursday night. For another week in a row, some big hits and questionable calls earn the spotlight on the podcast as Jeff and Elliotte try to diagnose what the NHL should do (11:34). They get into the discourse around DJ Smith in Ottawa and Tim Stutzle's comments on his former coach (23:37) and Elliotte talks about Andrei Kuzmenko getting scratched again by Rick Tocchet (29:12). The guys also dive into the latest details surrounding William Nylander's pending contract extension with Toronto (33:09) and talk about the state of the NHL's All-Star Game (43:20). Jeff and Elliotte wrap the podcast by revisiting the discussion on the Wednesday Night Hockey panel (1:14:41).The guys answer your questions in the Montana’s Thought Line (51:41).Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Montana's Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

You know what's good with hot dog water? Hot dogs? No, you take hot dog water, you pour it on carrots, and then stick it in the freezer and give it to your dog. They love them. And it's good to clean their teeth that way. That's my tip to you. It's good. I didn't know this.

Welcome once again to 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented, as always, by the GMC Sierra, Merrick Friedman, alongside Dom Schramatti as well, our producer. And before we get going on today's podcast, a reminder, Scotiabank Hockey Day in Canada takes place January 17th to the 20th in lovely Victoria, British Columbia. And our podcast will be recording a live show at Wicket Hall, downtown Victoria, Thursday january 18th again that is wicket hall downtown victoria thursday january the 19th uh the show starts at two o'clock and expected to join us uh former canucks and ducks defenseman kevin biaxa elliot's best friend on saturday nights and i can't get

away from this guy anywhere he's on the show he's on the podcast he's following you to the island here we go he's following you to bc we're off to victoria brian burke will be there as well other nhl alumni and another guy i can't get rid of i know he keeps following you around he must like you so much elliot's uh the stanley cup will be there as well will i have a vote in this uh i'm gonna defer to the ringmaster dom schramatti uh dom does elliot have a vote in who uh i'm gonna defer to the ringmaster dom schramatti uh dom does elliot have a vote in who our guests are right now we've got bx and burke two noted freedman haters uh elliot runs sports net so whatever he wants he gets all right yeah sure i do powers believe me there would be if i ran sports that biggest would kind of look differently i have

to say this there might be a different host for this podcast um braun statue out front okay you think i'd give myself a braun statue come on i'd do better than that uh you have a chance by the way uh if you live in the area if you live on the island if you can get to the island uh we're giving away five pairs of tickets for the event for the show for the for the podcast. And our good man Griffin Porter, who calls together all the thought line questions, is going to decide the five best either emails or phone calls that come in for the Montana's Thought Line. And just make a quick note, like if you're applying for this, just make a quick note saying, hey, I hope that this submission wins one of the five passes because I can get there on the Thursday, January 18th. Make it easy for our man, Griffin Porter. So those are the details.

Scotiabank Hockey Day in Canada, January 17th to 20th in Victoria, BC. Our podcast recording a live show, Wicket Hall, downtown Victoria, Thursday, January the 18th, the top five BC-based, I think we should say that, top five BC-based submissions for the Thoughtline this weekend. You could be off to see us. Now, Elliot, is Sidney Crosby ever going to age, or is he going to stay young forever? I want to talk about this so before we recorded the podcast on thursday night i was watching the end of boston pittsburgh and what a great game

that was boston was down five to two they tied it uh crosby scored on a power play to put them up six to five you're gonna look at his counting stats. One goal, two assists, three shots, plus one, 19 minutes. You're going to say, wow, another great Crosby night. You have to watch the icing race. After Boston falls behind, they are all over the Penguins. They pulled the goalie with about two and a half minutes left. They're all over the Penguins. They're winning face-offs.

They're getting chances. They come perilously close to scoring a couple of times. The Bruins clear the puck, and it's an icing race, and Crosby wins it. When he first broke in, the word on Crosby was a first-liner with the attitude of a fourth-liner. That was exactly it on Thursday night. Every NHLer should watch him on that play. Every young athlete. Actually, I don't even care what sport you play. You don't even have to play hockey.

The effort on that play, because when it started, he had a chance, and it was going to come down to where the puck was because what people forget is it's it's not who's first to the dot the linesman has to make the call based on when the first person gets to the dot which player has the best angle for the puck and you know sometimes i wonder if someone looks and says, oh, that's Sid. He gets the benefit of the doubt. But I thought it was a really fair call. I thought

it was the right call. And here's a game Pittsburgh absolutely needs to have. And they're back in, like, it's a devastating loss if they lose that game. They're back in the playoff race, and he wins that race. That play, more than the three points in that game, is the epitome of why he's as great as he is. And as I saw it unfolding on my screen, I was like, damn, he's going to win this. And he might win the Hart Trophy if he can get the Pittsburgh Penguins into the playoffs. What does Ryan Whitney describe him as?

A first-line grinder? I've always thought that was a really great description of what Crosby Yeah, that's a great way of looking at it. First-line grinder. I mean it really does seem as if no matter what is happening around him, no matter who's having a soft season or a soft game

around Crosby, he is trying to will this team into the playoffs almost single-handedly. Like I love players like this who just don't wilt when players around him wilt. Like his will actually gets stronger. Like there's a lot of Pittsburgh Penguins that have had some questionable starts to the season here. Well, I shouldn't say starts.

We're into January. There's some Pittsburgh Penguins players that have had some questionable seasons so far, but through all of it, Crosby's just acting like, I don't care. We can overcome this. Don't worry. We're going to be fine. Like it's going to be, it's going to be a hell of a, hell of a heart trophy race. You know, we talked about this on the radio show on Thursday, whether you're a Nikita Kucherov person, or whether you're an Artemi Panarin person or a Nathan McKinnon person or a Connor McDavid person I'll tell you what man if Crosby can do this with the Pittsburgh Penguins it's going to make it real tough not to vote for Crosby uh I agree I agree but you know Jeff

there's still 40 something games to go like no I give a word I give awards out in January that's true I've told you that's true in Decembercember i give awards out in november every week who's winning the heart trophy okay so i want to start off with a direct message uh that i got from someone on thursday okay okay directed it's towards me about you i don't know why people feel the need to dm me to gripe about you but here we go uh well i'm glad they don't gripe about about me to me for a change it's nice to get one less of those yeah thanks for sending them my way uh john michael uh at blue shirt for send me a dm john michael lyles is he not no does he live at four blue shirt way no there's no there's no wine cellar in the avatar so i don't think this is the location

john michael from blue shirt way wine cellar no he says uh hey jeff great podcast but please tell your partner that i don't want the chris crider goal to decide a stanley cup it wasn't hang on it wasn't a distinct kicking motion but how can the NHL want that to be a goal? And I'm a Ranger fan. So to John Michael, now, if you missed it, that was the Rangers beat the Chicago Blackhawks on Thursday night, 4-1, Criders scores the second goal of the game. And it is, technically, it's not a kicking motion.

I mean, if you know hockey hockey that's a punch stop like punch stop jam turn punch stop jam turn it's a punch stop is is what he's doing now is he deliberately kicking it in no but i think yes everybody but everybody knows what crider's doing there i mean like in the real world yes he is and, I wish they would simplify the rule book on this one. To me, there is a way to solve this problem. You know, there's, well, there's two ways to solve this problem. One way is if the skate, like if the skate doesn't leave the ice, like the blade doesn't leave the ice, it's a goal. That way you eliminate the blade coming up

and getting someone if chris kreider can do that with his with a skate blade on the ice well he did i think that should be a goal exactly he did he did then but i'm just saying do it make the rule that you know the western hockey league had the rule outside the crease goal inside the crease no goal dude like i wish there is a way to make this call less gray you can say look it either has to be this way or that way and i wish they would do it i think it would just make life a lot easier on people like i'm watching that highlight and peter marazic is going all wes mccauley with the exaggerated wave off right like he's no goal no goal no goal um and you know he's pretty confident that's not a goal when i saw the replay i i thought it was going to be but again i'm all about jeff easier on ourselves.

And there's two ways they could make it easier by simply, you know, saying, hey, on the ice or off or in the crease or out. I don't understand why they don't do that. I don't know. Now, you're still. I thought that was a goal. Like, to me, that was a goal. It's cool. It's by the rulebook.

That is a goal. But again, we all know what crider is doing but by way of the rule book that's that's fine that is a goal no i got no funniest thing is he didn't think it was a goal because he knows what he's doing he felt like he just robbed the bank and didn't have to wear a mask yeah that's how crider felt but you know what the funniest thing is to me jeff is that sometimes when people think they haven't scored, they celebrate extra hard so they can try and buy it. Right. Like, like to me, if I'm if I'm Peter Laviolette, I'm going to cry. I'm saying, Chris, yeah, do a better sell job next time.

We got away with this one. But come on, sell it. Sell it. next time we got away with this one but come on sell it sell it um the interesting part about this direct message because you know the the play itself i'm not gonna bother too much on it should it count should it not count the idea of because i've always found this really curious and i always think about this even though you know how i feel about overtime goals yeah do you want that goal to decide the stanley cup if we had a more clear rule like the two of them that we just talked about then we would not have any controversy or

we would at least minimize the controversy and vastly minimize the controversy okay i have no problem with that goal now i'll tell you what i do have a problem with right now is this hitting okay i did I want to get there. I did not like the box. No, we're going to. No, we're going to. You want to do something else first? Okay.

No, no, no, no, no. I want to do the hitting too. Before we get to actual news. This is how people know I'm not in charge of Sportsnet because Merrick is telling me I can't go where I want to go. No, we're going to go there. But before we get to some actual news, we do have some actual things to talk about here whether it's nylander or all-star kuzmenko getting health well why don't we why don't we just do the hitting first because that's what that's what i want to do here i want to dovetail it before we get to news i want to complain about more i'm just gonna be quiet okay sure let's complain about more stuff

here okay so peyton krebs and mitchell ste. In the Buffalo Montreal game. Now, if you also watch the Toronto Anaheim game, you may say shades of Bobby McMahon and Pavel Minchikov. And what have I been talking to you about over the last couple of years? And I know it may not happen in my lifetime, but at some point we're going to hear the discussion about the end of board hitting or the end of hitting around the boards and if you isolate those two hits you kind of say maybe america's on to something here maybe

they don't want hitting around the boards well i i would look at it right now as there's maybe america's on to something here and we have to put a stop to it immediately like because i'll tell you this i i would i'm betting there's a lot of managers and players who don't like this i don't like the bobby mcmahon i don't like the bobby mcmahon call from wednesday night anaheim toronto i disagreed like i don't have a problem in in a high speed game i know the nhl isn't crazy about using that penalty to make your decision for you they've taught that so what elliot's talking about is make it a five so you can automatically review it that's what elliot's right right thank you jeff the nhl does not like that they've said to referees we'd really prefer you didn't do that but i understand and i recognize that this is a fast game.

Collisions happen at speed. And sometimes you need to look to see if you've got the right call. I have no issue with that at all. As a matter of fact, I would prefer that over the wrong call. Double check it where you can instead of calling, what did I think I just see? However, I could not believe after replay that McMahon was tossed from that game. And I think the Mitchell Stevens penalty on Krebs was the same. He got a minor Stevens.

Yeah. I didn't like the call at all. Interference was the call. But the weird thing about that was, see, here's the thing about the call. Technically, the call is interference. They're about to battle for it. But Krebs initiated it. And Mitchell Stevens really should have had the penalty. It's not in about the call. Technically, the call is interference. They're about to battle for it. But Krebs initiated it. And Mitchell Stevens really should have had the penalty. It's not in the rule book.

But if you're going to give him a penalty for anything on that play, it's a penalty for being stronger. This hockey player is stronger than that hockey player, so you're going to go sit in the penalty box. I really disagree. I really disagree with both those calls. And I hope we get something that goes out saying, hey, we don't want this.

Because those are not dirty plays. I understand sometimes you get borderline dirty or dirty plays, but those were not dirty plays. McMahon's play wasn't dirty. Stevens' play wasn't dirty. And I don't like that those are penalties. I really don't. I don't think that's what we should be wanting here clean hits but they're a couple of feet away from the boards kind of in that area where you know when you hit someone they're going

to go slamming into the boards they don't have a chance to get themselves up on against the boards and brace for contact like in a perfect a perfect world, like on the play Wednesday in the Anaheim-Toronto game, Pavel Minchikov, when he goes to dump the puck in, you know, he's probably saying to himself, I need to get as close to the boards as possible in case there's contact. But Bobby McMahon's already there.

Like, he doesn't have a chance to get to the boards and protect himself, and he just has to fire it in. And I look at that, and I say, oh, stevens take advantage of him well not really it's a shoulder no older check and what's he supposed to do and you know the other thing too is if if you watch stevens if you watch stevens on the play well first of all i want to say i'm glad gergensons was because that guy's had enough trouble but the other thing too is like if you if you watch the play stevens actually kind of takes the war as as bad of it as krebs does like as you said krebs kind of initiate well not kind of he initiates the

contact and stevens is bigger but stevens also goes down to like You know, Krebs knocked him off his way. It wasn't like Stevens was guilty of being overly forceful. He got it as bad as Krebs did. So I don't know. I just really, I don't like this. You know, one-offs to me, one-offs happen. But this is now two in two days. And I just don't like the path that we we're going down here with this I don't think

that that should be a penalty Elliot also on Thursday night uh the Phil Tomasino Dennis Gilbert uh incident Tomasino comes in to uh hit Gilbert who is getting rid of the puck in the Calgary zone uh Gilbert tries to initiate contact on Tomasino they They both tumble. Scary scene. Dennis Gilbert laying motionless for a while. Everybody in Nashville holding their breath and hoping for the best, as we're hoping for the best for Dennis Gilbert as well. It's a match penalty for Phil Tomasino there.

I'm not sure that I see it, Elliot. Do you? You know, I would suspect, I would, you? I would suspect I've always been surprised before. I wouldn't be surprised if this one gets rescinded. That's what I predict. I think this one will get rescinded. Again, it's

different than the other two we just talked about in the Anaheim game and the Montreal game because this one wasn't into the boards. It was more like up and down. And if you really slow it down, Gilbert's right leg is in the air and Tomasino's going wide to brace for contact. Like, I don't see Tomasino's left foot going through him to slew foot it.

I think that Gilbert's in the air. He comes down. Like, Tomasino's knee hits him like in the, I don't know, in the thigh or the back in the air. He comes down. Like, Tomasino's knee hits him, like, in the, I don't know, in the thigh or the back of the leg. And it's just a bad collision. And, again, the more I think about this, Jeff, the more I think about what we talked about on the podcast before Christmas when all the bad hits were there.

Like, is the NHL just trying to tone this all down for some reason? Like, they're just saying look this has gotten too hot and we're we're toning it down because again like i really want gilbert to be okay but to me that's not a dirty play that's that's an accident now i don't think it's as egregious a miss call as the other two. And it certainly looks scary. But I just like to me, that's not a deliberate attempt to injure. And my prediction, and I've said many times,

this has been my worst year for predictions ever, is that match penalty gets rescinded. And they're obviously concerned because Gilbert went down hard down hard i mean that's a that's the first thing you notice on the back of his head hits the ground you hope he's okay okay let me see if i can get it gross about something else i'm gonna throw it okay the uh armia goal getting taken away the pesetta goal interference with devin levi no i i was okay with that i was okay with that the thing is like first of all pesetta went into the crease bingo that that's trouble i think we all know that now he went into the crease and the other thing too is i people say

well the goalie had enough time to reset don't watch it in slow motion i think it really perverts your feelings on the issue if you watch it in slow motion. By the way, Jeff, just in general, I got ripped today by a number of people. I can't believe how many text messages I got today from people saying, I can't believe you only had two thoughts today. And I was like, okay, I know I'm a half miler out there, everyone, but it's been a bit of a crazy week and I wanted to get a new ladder thing out. I haven't spoken to a lot of some of the managers recently and i wanted to get a new ladder thing out i i'm start like i haven't spoken to a lot of uh some of the managers recently and i'm starting to kind of wake my make my way through it

to reconnect with some people and uh i gotta tell you the stress out there is high high in some of these in some of these markets like We all know about Buffalo, and then they go into Montreal, and they win that game 6-1. Yeah, that's a huge thing. And Montreal, we all throw there. Devin Levi is the first star in Montreal. That happens.

Carey Price fan, good for him. You know what? Yeah, it is good for him, but I don't think the fans have any reason to be upset about that. That's just a thing that happens guys come home and play well but boy i can i can feel that you know montreal's in a rebuild i think we all know they're in a rebuild but people don't like that right and i just think in some of these situations, I can feel it. Like, we all know about Buffalo.

We all know about Ottawa. You know, we know that those are situations where, you know, we saw what happened in Edmonton early in the season. But, you know, people are saying they feel it in Pittsburgh. You know, what's on the line if the team doesn't make the playoffs this season? They feel it in Detroit. They're starting to sag a little bit right now. I can feel it out there.

There's some situations around the league right now where you can really feel the the pressure on some of these teams and some of them they know they're not making the playoffs so what one of the next 40 games gonna be like you you really it's intense around the nhl right now and this isn't some of the same stress equal to the other teams that we mentioned here. But Jeff, we just saw Vegas at the outdoor game. They didn't play very well. And they got beat at home on Thursday night by Florida. And Florida is not getting enough credit for how good it's been. But, you know, I just wonder how long they wait before that.

Like, I really like the Bjorn foot pickup on waivers. It obviously didn't work out in L.A., unfortunately. And the fact that Vegas sees something in there tells me that, you know, they're really smart when it comes to their pro scouting. So I'm very curious to see what the Golden Knights can do with him. But I'm just watching them, and they don't look incredibly inspired, and they're talking about in our podcast about how they know themselves now,

and they'll know they'll be fine. But again, I wonder if there's a point where the Golden Knights just poke at their players a little bit to say, okay, enough's enough. Let's get going here. Because they just don't look inspired lately there's a great and i retweeted it right away as soon as i saw it um uh a woman by the name of

nancy davidson who's a lawyer in arizona uh tweeted out a close-up of marty san luis sort of leaning oh yeah i saw that one and like it's like f me and it's like there is so i think that mood like dude that mood has been around the nhl all season long i'm just so glad to see that from nancy i'm like that is such a great capture of marty saint louis like we've all felt like that at different parts of our lives and at different times this season i think a lot of teams have felt that specifically right now like how many teams are martin st louis and that nancy davidson tweet a ton yeah a ton of a ton of teams right now like like like i have to tell you like this ottawa stuff to me is really interesting in what sense about the dj smith well well first of all i know some people reacted to

some comments that stuetsley made today like yep i think everybody needs to dial that back a little bit like tim you know tim stuetsley you know he's a decent guy you know dj smith got fired he's just trying to be he's trying to say nice things about dj smith what he's doing there is there's no need to kick dirt on the guy it's over and you know don't forget too when when denny savard was fired as head coach of the chicago blackhawks after king cried yeah like he cried and he was so hurt and i remember people are saying oh no he's not going to want to stay it's not like that. These are pro athletes.

They understand it's a business, and they move on. And if Stutzle doesn't understand it, then Claude Giroux is going to explain it to him or some other veteran on that team is going to explain it to him. You move on. And eventually, he'll grow his attachment to his next head coach too. I don't think this is a big deal. I really don't. I think it's Stutzle being nice nice and the reality is that he will adapt that's just the way we all have changes in our life and we all adapt but you know what though i thought there's a whole lot of truth

there i mean whether it was you know tim stutzler or previous brady kachuk like regardless of the decision and the performance and all of that, like those players really like DJ Smith. I know you don't just hire, hire based on, well, the guys are going to like them. So we're going to have them behind the bench. I understand all that. And results oriented business,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But those guys really like TJ Smith. They really did. You know this Elliot.

Yep. Well, you know, they absolutely did. Now, the other thing I think in Ottawa is so so jacques martin comes out yesterday and he unloads on the players as much as he does you know he's always been very careful with his words like one of the things i really like about jacques martin is when he does it he does it so

pointedly that it resonates right years ago Years ago, the big controversy in Pittsburgh was Jason Spezza. Should he be in the NHL? And he goes, this is a man's league. And in this day and age, those comments would have broken social media. But the reason they were such a big deal at the time was Jacques Martin never said anything controversial. And all of a sudden, he comes up with that. So it's clear to me, when he does it, he does it on purpose, and he's there to get a message out. Everything he said yesterday after that horrible performance in Vancouver, it says to me that this was planned. He wanted to get the message out. I have no doubt that he discussed it with the likes of Steve Stahos and Ryan Bonas and Dave Poulin and Alfredson.

I think everybody knew in the organization that this was going to happen. And, you know, one of the things the Sanders have done here, and you and I have talked about this ad nauseum, the players said to Stahos and Adlauer, this organization was too crazy. There was too much drama. So everything they've done has been try to remove the drama. And they held on to Smith longer than I think other teams might have because they respected the players' wishes on that. Now, they've also made it very clear that these are

young players are going to be our core i am wondering if now what the organization is saying these guys are too comfortable and you know that was that's always the balance a good coach and a good boss in real life knows the line between you want to make your employees or your players comfortable, but you don't want them to be too comfortable. And if they get too far from one to the other, how do you change it to get them back into their best position? And what I see happening in Ottawa right now is they think their guys are too comfortable they are saying that you know like i said you like like all these teams are struggling you've got 40 games to go the math is not your friend so what are you going to do are you just going to mail in the last 40 games or are you going to try to convince guys that, you know what, maybe things aren't as a guarantee here as you think they are.

And that to me is kind of what the Sanders are up to here. I think they wanted to send a lightning bolt through their roster. And I'm not talking about actually have Nikita Kucherov walk through their dressing room, but a real actual lightning bolt. I think they want to see other players react to it. You know who told us something? I'm just listening to you talk about this. You know who told us something almost identical at the NHL players tour in, not in Vegas, but in Chicago?

Do you remember our conversation with Ryan Nugent Hopkins? Yeah. We talked about the craziness and how we just want stability all around us. And every year and a half, it's a new coach and you run, and then you go look at the list of coaches that Ryan Nugent Hopkins had had up to that point. You say, wow, he's really does have a point here. Just hearing that takes me back to the, to the Edmonton days of, you know, you know, praying for some stability and some calm around everything. And I can't help thinking that there's a little bit of symmetry there.

Meanwhile, there's always a story in Vancouver with the Canucks. Andre Kuzmenko, Thursday night, healthy scratch. Ba-boom. You know, one of the first things I want to say about Rick Talkett is before we talk about it here, really great gesture spending a few hours with Kelly Chase the night before.

Chase is battling it right now, and not a surprise at all that Talkett would go and spend time with him. Of course. Look, it's just clear right now that Taka will be short fuse with Kuzmenko. He doesn't like what he's seeing. And I don't think Rick Taka's doghouse is possible to get out of. I just don't think he coaches like that.

However, it's very clear. Look, how many times have there been scratches? How many times have we heard there have been conversations? They had a big face-to-face meeting before the Christmas break when they were in Dallas. And, you know, Talkett told them everything you needed to know. People said this was a good meeting, the air is cleared, and then look at this a week and a bit later and look where we are.

So basically, he's reached the end of his fuse with Kuzmenko and he's just not happy with him right now. And whatever Kuzmenko was doing that thought it was going to get him out of the doghouse, it's not enough. So, you know, I think at this point in time, I think Vancouver knows what the market is out there. I think they're well aware of who likes them and what these teams are willing to do. I just think if you can't make a deal right now,

and as we've always said, when you're struggling, they don't throw you life preservers, they throw you anvils. Is Vancouver just content with this the way it is right now, that he may not play and he's deep in the doghouse and clearly Talkett feels he's not doing enough to consistently stay out of it? And it's not like Rick Talkett feels he's not doing enough to consistently stay out of it. And it's not like Rick Talkett's going to change his mind. Like, you look at some of these other players, Dakota Joshua,

the Giuseppe, Miller. Unfortunately, Giuseppe's injured right now. Miller, they've been in this doghouse, but they seem to know how to work their way out of it, right? That's not happening with this player. See, the interesting thing about this one is yeah because you're right like when you're struggling no one's going to help you out but vancouver's not struggling i think vancouver is one of the best teams in the nhl

like if there's ever a a team that is ready to you know withstand uh not being forced into trading a player right now until you get the deal that you want isn't it vancouver right now with kuzmenko it's not there it's like okay well that's fine well that's the thing too is that you have to know when you have the right to complain and you have you have to know when you have to keep your mouth shut and you know when the team is going well you can't and maybe you want to be traded you can't come out as selfish like other teams are going to look at that and say all right he's keeping his mouth shut that's a good sign because if he comes out and really starts like basically the only thing you can say is i'd like to play more but i don't want to you know i i just don't want to rule what we've got going right now right

that's all you can do because anything more than that people are going to be like why do we want to bring this into our room all right from one storyline to another and that is the saga of the william nylander contract are they close if so how close where's the decimal point elliot we're recording this part of the podcast at 1027 Eastern on Thursday night what's happening with William Nylander yeah I mean the safest way I can answer this because you're right we could drop the podcast

tomorrow and have to do an emergency insert it's been a while or one an update from my shower it's been a while since we've had one of those one day I'm actually going to do an update from my shower. It's been a while since we've had one of those. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. One day I'm actually going to do an update while I'm showering.

I think the audience really, really wants that. Just like in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Yes, yes. He talks to Cameron in the shower with the towel. That's very nice. I think the audience really would like that, so one day I will do it. Give the people what they want, Elliot it give the people what they want elliot give the

people what they want not what they need what they want oh they don't um yes they do anyway you know i wrote something today and nobody disputed there's a deal there there's a deal there and it's it's ready to get done and I've had several people tell me that what they believe, and I believe this information, is if the answer was yes, we take the deal, it could get done very quickly. I don't think that's wrong. So the Maple Leafs in the summer, I think they're in the eights, nines. The Nylander camp, including the agent, was like, that's just not going to do it. And you know how negotiations work, Jeff.

You don't undercut yourself. Jeff and I have a negotiation. We both think Jeff is going to make six. Three, he's going to ask for nine that's just the way it goes right okay and sure and that that's life everybody out there is negotiating a contract you know that's that's the way it works toronto they concede that he's earned it he's done it he's on pace for career highs and goals assistant points he's playing two minutes more a night than he has previously in his career the other that against

la he's on the ice protecting the empty netter we haven't seen him do that a lot william neilander has done everything here to earn this new deal and they see it i think the other thing here to earn this new deal. And they see it. I think the other thing here is the Maple Leafs recognize because of that, they're going to have to go higher than they wanted to go. And I think they are prepared to do that, but there's always a limit. And I think that what happens is you move into that area, and because it's a negotiation, the group negotiating against you, they always try to squeeze. The Maple Leafs have moved, and they've moved much closer to Nylander's area, where he hoped to be.

Now, there's always a limit. There's always a point where you'll say, no, we're not going to do that. there's always a limit. There's always a point where you'll say, no, we're not going to do that. And where we have to get to here, I believe, is the point where the negotiation stops and everybody just realizes they're going as far as they're willing to go. And either everybody says yes or they don't. And we're not at that point yet. You know, Toronto wants this done. They stepped this up a little bit before Christmas because they want certainty before the deadline. This is not just about re-signing Nylander. This is about how they're going to shape their roster now and for years to come.

They don't want to trade their first rounder. They don't have a lot of picks. They don't want to trade Cowan. They don't want to trade Minton. They just don't have a lot of assets. And their preference is to trade for people with turn. They would rather not do rentals. They'd rather do turn or someone they know they can sign. But in order to do that, you've got to know, even with the cap going up, what Neil Underwood's number is going to be. How much room do you have? So I think they've just decided, we're doing this, we're getting it done, we concede, we're in, and we just need to know it's over. Now, there's four yeses that have to come here. The Leafs, like I said, as long as the number doesn't get to where they won't do it,

they're in. Nylander, I love watching him. He knows the reporters are commenting to him on Tuesday night in LA. And he's like, guys, I told you I'm not talking about this with that big grin on his face. But he's, from what I understand,

he's very receptive to this. Like, they're in his ballpark. The agent's not talking, but if there was nothing here, the agent would be letting people know there's nothing here. In my history, that's the way it goes. And then we come to Michael Nylander, the dad, and look, I hate when families get brought

into this. I really shield my family from my public life. I don't like it. You don't sign up for it. And it gives me the heebie-jeebies to even talk about families. Michael D. Leonard is a bit different. He was a player. He played a long time.

He knows the business. He's very much a part of this. Everybody knows it. And the entire industry kind of knows him. And I don't say this is a bad thing, but he has a vision of what he sees Williams' worth as. And he provides that vision. He's very blunt about it. And I think that's kind of what everyone's kind of looking at here is, when do all four yeses align?

And I think the only danger here, because I think everybody wants this done. I think the player wants this done. I think the team wants it done. I think the agent wants it done. The only danger zone here is, does it ever get to a point where as much as the Leafs are moved,

it doesn't get to a space where they can agree. And the Leafs are moved, it doesn't get to a space where they can agree. And the Leafs just say, you know what, we can't go there. And I think, and again, I have not spoken to the Leafs that are being super careful about this, but I think they feel they've really budged a lot, and now Nylander has to budge a little bit too. And if that happens, this is going to get done. From what I understand right now, there is no reason that this contract shouldn't happen. I don't believe William Nylander is lying when he says he wants to be in Toronto and nowhere else.

If I didn't believe that, I would say we've got a problem, but I do believe that. And from what I understand here, there's no reason it shouldn't occur. The other thing I'd like to say about this, Jeff, is I've listened to a lot of other people's commentary, other discourse about this whole situation and what the number is or should be or what his worth is. And it always comes down to comparisons. Well, Poster Doc makes 11.25. So New Lenders shouldn't get that. He should be getting less than that. You know how this all goes. And I've mentioned this before on the pod, and I'm going to do it again. People should buy a book. It's called The Bald Truth. It is by an agent named Davidid falk who represented michael

jordan and patrick ewing among others and in it he talks about how good agents and good teams completely throw away that situation they say that you only use that when it benefits you, not surprisingly. So people out there saying, oh, well, Nylander shouldn't get 11-2-5 because he's not as good as Pasternak. Maybe you think that, but that's not the way that Nylander's team is going to negotiate that. They're going to say, he explains it really well in this book it was a a real good eye-opener for me he explains it as that may be his situation but that's not your situation like you'll remember when the maple leaves signed all these big deals a few years ago with matthews and martyr etc people said oh this is going to drive up the top numbers all around the league. And it really didn't in a lot of cases.

And that's because teams said, look, maybe that's what Toronto did with their guys, but that doesn't mean that we're going to do it with all our guys. So it's not always the best way to use comparisons. It comes down to how can you bend the situation to your own advantage? How much leverage do you have? How much leverage does your opponent have? And where is everybody willing to go? And what's happened in this case is the Maple Leafs thought they had the leverage in the summer of Nylander wanting to stay there. Nylander said, you know what, I'm going to bet on myself. Now the team realizes, you know what, he's really got the leverage, so we've got to come to him.

Nylander, what he has to look here and say is, all right, how do I get the best possible deal for myself without this getting to a point where the Maple Leafs say, you know what, this getting to a point where the Maple Leafs say, you know what? We don't like where this is going. It's too much for us. And we're not so sure we want to do this anymore. I don't think that's what's going to happen. But to me, that's what Nylander has to stop. He has to know when to say when before Toronto gets to a point where they're like, eh, we're not comfortable with this. And again, I think it will get done. We're just in the grind time now. Well, as of right now, and we'll see what happens with the voting,

William Nylander is not going to All-Star Weekend. First 32 names have been announced. He will be going. He'll be there oh i listen i i'm just looking for a transition here between the two stories um the 32 first 32 names have been revealed by the nhl for all-star weekend and you know what my first thought was how are they going to narrow down to eight plus four that are voted in by the fans for who do the skills? Let's get there in a second. But your first thought on the first 32 names that have come out.

One thing is there's always a big debate. Does each team need to have a representative? And I know that there are people who feel very strongly that that's not the case. The problem with that is that the commissioner has 9 billion votes. There are 7 billion people on the planet. So even if everybody voted against him, he can beat them by 2 billion votes. And he has made it very clear that he is not giving his exact quote, I believe, is,

I'm not giving a market a reason to turn off the All-Star game. And as long as he's in charge, until he changes his mind, that's his opinion. So you can argue about it all you want. That's his philosophy. Number two, I understand this year that at one of the meetings, probably the GM meeting, it was made very clear that they wanted the teams to stop pushing back against suggestions. Like hockey ops comes to the teams and says, we want this guy.

And it always used to be, nah, we don't want that guy. Apparently they were told this year, And it always used to be, nah, we don't want that guy. Apparently, they were told this year, don't even come to us with a complaint unless you have a good reason. And I understand there were, like, Panarin tonight. You know, people were wondering how could Panarin not be the Rangers nominee, even though Shesterkin's not exactly chopped liver. But, you know, he comes out and he says, look, my wife is due. And nobody's going to argue with that. I don't think he's the only case like that. I think there were a couple other ones, but they were told quite clearly, if we come to you with someone, you better have a good reason for saying no. Like, I think one of the ones that really raised a lot

of eyebrows was Calgary and Linoleum. And that's the NHL's pick. That's the guy they wanted. And, you know, it seems like Calgary were asked, if we come to you with a guy, don't fight us on it. So the Flames were like, I don't think he would have been the Flames pick, but they're like, okay. So with all that in mind, I mean, I was surprised by Boone Jenner simply because he hasn't played in a while. But I'm sure an Ontario guy getting to play in the All-Star game,

I'm sure it's a huge honor for him. So I don't mind seeing players get rewarded. Look, who's there? McDavid's there? Check. Matthews is there? Check. As you said, Nylander's going to be there.

Dreissel's events are going to be there. Nathan McKinnon's there. Check. As you said, Nylander's going to be there. Dreisaitl's events are going to be there. Nathan McKinnon's there. Check. Jack Hughes is there. Crosby's there. Check. Jack Hughes is there. Check. Tell me who you're looking at here and saying that isn't going to be there. That you're looking at here and saying it's going to hurt. Okay, so here's the point that I want to get to.

Having a text exchange with someone about this earlier this evening, and we're talking about this incredibly difficult job figuring out from the NHL's side of things who their eight are going to be for the skills competition now 12 players compete um the remaining four are selected by the fans but you are gonna i'm gonna run you down a list and i want you to let me know whether you think this per this player should be in the skills competition or not okay any good connor mcdavid yes nathan mckinnon call yeah i recall i i led with the software i'm surprised you paused for so long nathan mckinnon i was gonna i was gonna say

try the ribs as my answer that's my yes uh nathan mckinnon yes 100 austin matthews uh three so far you're you're really going on out on a limb with these picks trust me I'm going somewhere with this Nikita Kucherov Sidney Crosby Jack Hughes Quinn Hughes Jack Eichel that's 8

now you're leaving off Pasternak you're leaving off Bedard Jack Eichel. Sure. That's eight. Okay. Okay. Now, you're leaving off Pasternak. You're leaving off Bedard. You're leaving off Matthew Barzal. Bedard's going to be there. He's going to be there. You're leaving off Kaprizov. And if they get voted in, Marner or Makar or Elias Patterson. Like, this is going to... Good luck choosing.

Again, the NHL chooses eight. Good luck NHL. Can I say this? If this is the biggest problem that they have that weekend, we are way out of the game. I know. I get that. Way out of the game.

But you know what the issue is? The two things that jump out at you? Two things happen in these situations. Hurt feelings and pissed off fans. That's what you get. My guy was snubbed for the All-Star. But you're always going to have that. The one I kind of thought about a little bit was Fantilli.

Here's the thing. Like, Boone Jenner, like, I got to wonder if this was just a reward for everything he's done there. Okay? And I'm okay with that. I think there's something to be said for, you know, I always remember when Brian Elliott, he shouldn't that year, and they ran out of goalies and they called him on vacation and said can you come back and play

goal in the all-star game we're stuck and him and his wife picked up from whatever island they were on and came back and to me like as far as i was concerned, that was like a Masters and Trophy type move. That's a big solid. And what it does is it reminds me that these guys, they're the guys that go to the All-Star Game 12 years in a row. One thing I heard about Henrik Lundqvist was he always loved going to the All-Star Game. Some of the goalies really hate it, but Lundqvist was one of those guys he loved going to the all-star game like some of the goalies really hate it but lundquist was one of those guys he loved going and some guys do but some guys get tired of it

so i don't see a problem with rewarding a guy like jenner and saying you know what you've been a great pro for our organization for a long time and we want to reward you with this i'm okay with that like would i love to see fantilli there with all these guys yeah i would but i i understand this whole jenner thing um i get it um but problem is they have too many guys for the skills competition to me that says you're probably going to have a very good weekend. That's true. Okay, let's wrap on that. I think Amber's co-hosting the draft. I'm going to work on him. Dave, this is a failure

if you don't get the players as hammered as they were that one time, I think, in Columbus. Okay, Dave's got to do shots with all of them before the show begins. It's very unprofessional of Dave to do so, but make it a better show. It would make him a better broadcaster, that's for sure. On that, we'll hit a break. Montana's Thought Line coming up next.

Listen to the 32 Thoughts podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. Okay, Elliot, time once again now for the Montana's's thought line montana's barbecue and bar canada's home for barbecue try the ribs that's going to be your tagline like for the rest of your life that's going to be your i didn't do it kid moment as i try the ribs guy one day when you're long gone and your career is uh is in is in the rearview, people will come up to you in your senior years and say, dry the ribs, dry the ribs.

32 thoughts. I have to say, your impersonations have gotten better. You had one of Tom McVie on the radio show today that was good. This one was not bad. And I should also say, as we get into this segment, when I was walking on Monday morning from the hotel

over to the baseball field for the outdoor game in Seattle, I had three people offer opinions on whether or not it was acceptable to lie on Dom's bed. So I just want to say I am incredibly appreciative of all the listeners to this podcast. Oh, I thought you were going to say you had people screaming at you to try the ribs my favorite that has happened i get that at airports a lot try the ribs you do it oh yeah people walk by and they yell try the ribs oh yeah did i ever and this is the sort of sort of level that my career raised at um my favorite moment

where i was yelled at was i was walking through the CBC building. This is back in 2009, maybe 2010. And someone out of nowhere screamed, Hey, I desk. Not, Hey, that's Jeff. I'm just identified by the desk. And I was like, that's my name for you. I desk. Oh, thanks. That's great where I'm at in my career. That's my new nickname for you, iDesk. Oh, thanks. That's great. 32thoughts at sportsthat.ca. Fantastic. Email 1833-311-3232.

Okay, Josh from London, Ontario, who attended the Superior University of Guelph. That is interesting. Someone from London going to Guelph. Smart choice, Josh. Hey, Jeff, Elliot, and Dom. Thank you for all you do with the podcast and beyond. I don't know about beyond,

but thanks for the podcast comment. When Ilya Samsonov was placed on waivers, it was reported that the Maple Leafs would make available the team's resources to help him find his game. Samsonov was then assigned to the AHL Marlies. It made me wonder, are all of NHL teams, resources, coaches, etc.

available to players in the American Hockey League or does the player have to work exclusively with the AHL coaches? If the NHL teams resources are available, how does this work when the NHL and AHL teams are in different cities? Could the players stay in the NHL city and continue to use the NHL team's resources after being assigned? Or do they have to go to the AHL team? Lots of good questions there. Obviously, it's a lot easier if your American Hockey League team is in your city or close.

You know, Toronto has that. Calgary has that now. San Jose, the Barracuda are in the same city as the sharks the canucks are closer but it's not like it's uh right on top of of the nhl team if you are sent to the american hockey league you have to be part of the ahl environment like there's benefits to the cap if you're not in the nhl and you're in the ahl for example the leafs get 1.15 million off of samsonov's cap it so you are supposed to be with the ahl team that is part of the process now depending on that always happens elliot players always report to the AHL team. They used to be a lot tougher than they are about it now.

If players are getting yo-yoed up and down for cap reasons, they really don't have a big problem with it if you stay in the city. But, for example, in this particular kind of a case, if Samsonov was around the NHL team while he was in the minors, I guarantee you somebody would complain about it. But in terms of organizational resources, yes, just because you're in the NHL doesn't mean you can't access resources that would be available to a member of the organization, whether it be coaching or whether it be off ice, like a psychologist or whatever mental work he's doing, mental health initiatives.

If he's a member of the organization, they can take care of him as such. You know, I'll tell you one thing. I had some people who really talked up Hanu Tolvanen to me. He's the goalie coach for the Marlies. They said that he's a really, really talented guy and a good teacher. And they do want to see legitimately what can happen here with Samsonov

if Tolvanen gets a crack at him, if he can make it work. But, you know, for all this talk about Hildeby and whether or not he's ready for beating the NHL now there's no question that he's taken a big step in his first season of North America and Toivonen's gotten some real credit for how he's handled them so I don't know if this is fixable I'm starting to wonder if this is just one of those situations where Samsonov needs to be in a quieter place.

But basically, I think the feeling is there that Toivonen is a good coach and give him a crack at him and see where it goes. You're right, Elliot. There's a lot of good questions contained in that one question. So thank you very much, Josh from London, for that one. Here's an interesting one, TV guy. Austin in Columbus, Ohio. Good morning, afternoon, evening, Jeff, Elliot, and Dom. Who makes the decision on when exactly to take a TV

timeout? I know there are guidelines for when they can be taken, such as only after the five-minute mark into periods. Is it an official who makes the call? Love listening to the pot on my drives home from work and Elliot's wonderful pronunciation of detroit give us a detroit for the all the all the all the fans of how you pronounce detroit detroit and for all of you people who complain it just doesn't it's not going to get me to change my mind i'm good now it's not going anywhere you got to put the accent on the right syllable okay that's right that's right tv timeouts how do we do it uh you're right there are certain times and it's the first whistle below 14 minutes 10 minutes and six minutes of a period remaining uh so if it's exactly 14 or

10 or six you don't take the break. It's the first whistle after. There are some rules. You can't do it on an icing. And you can't do it during a power play. So if, for example, the Toronto Maple Leafs are playing the Anaheim Ducks, the Maple Leafs take a penalty with 10.07 to go in the period. Clock passes 10. Wh to go in the period. Clock passes 10. Whistle.

No commercial break. You have to wait until the penalty is over. So that's one of the rules. And also, you cannot take a commercial break. I want to say it's in the last minute of the first and second periods. And in the last two minutes of the third period i believe that's how it works so that's called make-ups if for example you don't get your full three commercial breaks in and it happens periodically not often but it happens periodically you get the intermission

shortened because they have to make up the commercial time in the intermission. And I'm sure there are nights where Kevin VX is working, where many of you feel the less intermission time, the better. Ooh, zing. That's another story entirely. So yes, that it does work like that.

Basically there's a person who sits in the penalty box, uh, who is the, it's their responsibility to let the referees know on the ice that it's time to take a commercial timeout. And I think it's still the case in most buildings, Jeff, I don't want to say 100%, but I believe there's a light, a light that gets turned on when you're in a commercial break. And when they're in the commercial break, you'll see they'll get to a point where the

referee or the official who's waiting to drop the puck will wait for a signal from that timekeeper before they drop the puck to resume play. So, yes, there is somebody in the building who's responsible for doing it, and they are in the penalty box. Excellent. And I'm glad you put that about commercials getting pushed because I'm sure someone out there is thinking, well, what if there are no whistles in the period? What happens to those TV timeouts and all of that commercial inventory? So good for that one. OK, here's an interesting one. This is a voicemail from Josh in Cambridge. First off, I just want to shout out Jeff. I work at the University of Guelph, and I know that he's from there. We're actually celebrating our 50th year of the Brass Taps. So just as a quick side note, I was hoping if he had any Brass Taps stories that he'd like to share,

or just any University of Guelph crazy stories he'd like to share. My question is, I'm an LA Kings fan, and I'm watching the Maple Leafs and Kings game, and for the second year in a row, the Maple Leafs have gotten the Kings to wear their away jerseys at home so that they could wear their reverse Beaver jersey. My question is, why are the Maple Leafs allowed to do that? And who's the one that makes that decision? Is that NHL or is that just both teams agreeing to something? Thank you very much. A couple of things there. First of all, you ever go to the Brass Tapsy on Campus Bar?

Yes, I have been there. I have been there. I strongly suspect it's actually been 75 years of existence but they count slowly in guelph so it's only the 50th anniversary good bar yeah i've been there good good place it's uh we always just called it the keg but yes the actual name is the uh the brass taps um give us your best tab story yeah well they tell me i had a great time there um the things that stand out from the brass taps i'll just mention a couple of them um dollar poutine was a savior for a poor student and i was a really broke student i had like no money at all like many students that's not unusual yeah like no not unusual so dollar poutine at the brass tap saved me many a day

um they used to have a house band there on friday night uh mel brown on the home wreckers um we used to always go see mel brown uh the late mel brown these should be a really good blues circuit actually between like guelph and kitchener and london and cambridge uh a lot of great uh acts albert collins came up saw him buddy guy would have come up a couple times uh wow oh yeah man that's pretty good there was some james cotton saw james cotton a bunch it used to be like a really cool lucky peterson used to be a really good blues loop uh in the area and also maybe the best show that i ever saw there was a toronto band by the name of the bourbon tabernacle choir uh led by k Kate Fenner and the great Chris Brown.

That was probably the best show that I saw there. But that was a regular hangout, for sure. The Brass Taps, great spot. Now, I looked into this one because I wondered about that too. I'm like, hmm, how come the Kings are wearing the road whites at home? And what was told to me was, all that is, is a simple conversation from one general manager to the other usually at the beginning of the season and most teams accommodate so I don't know whether that was initiated by Brad Treliving because he wanted the Maple Leafs to wear the Beavers in LA or whether that was initiated by Rob Blake in Los Angeles and he wanted to wear the road whites at home

I don't know but that's a simple conversation between GMs, the beginning of the season. Do you know otherwise Elliot? No, I don't. And I'm not surprised the Leafs would want to wear the Beavers in Los Angeles. I mean,

I know he was at the game in Toronto over the holidays. I don't know if he was in LA the other night, but I'm not surprised they'd want to wear that there. Cause that's where he normally is. Okay, Kevin in Calgary. Plus also, I love the chrome domes. I love them. Chrome domes look really good too, don't they?

Yeah, fantastic. Okay, Kevin in Calgary. Hey guys, Kevin from Calgary with a salary structure question for you. After watching the Sportsnet clip where William Nylander's possible next contract was discussed, I'm left a little puzzled about how front-loading the contract with sizable bonuses or other maneuvers could benefit both the team and player. Could you please explain, as I believe this is a poorly understood facet of capology, thank you very much and appreciate the entertainment and education of the podcast well that is high praise and

sad to say i guess we have you fooled calgary uh go ahead for each well there are rules now that are different than the previous cba we used to have those big uh backloaded contracts or front-loaded contracts, I should say, where players like Roberto Luongo and Henrik Zetterberg, there was a huge disparity between the front of their contracts and the back of them. I think Miki Kiprasov may have been the first. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think Kiprasov was the first one that was like that. Well, the one thing I never understood was why Vancouver had to pay a penalty after Luongo stopped playing. That contract got approved. like that well the one thing i never understood was why vancouver had to pay a penalty after luongo stopped playing you know like that contract got approved berkey and i would have huge fights for about this he's like it's an illegal contract i said it approved it got approved it's not illegal if it was illegal they wouldn't approve it it's like no it's illegal barks anyway so i i thought the whole thing was crazy that and stupid that they had to pay a penalty for it. But in the most recent, actually, I shouldn't say the most recent because the most recent one was 2020.

But in the 2013 CBA, they changed it. And basically, the way it works is there's a limit now between the largest year and the smallest year. Basically, it's 50%. The smallest year of salary has to be within 50% of the largest year of salary. So they make it harder to do that. Now, what Nick is talking about with bonuses and things like that is that he's talking about the structure of how much of the contract is paid in bonuses. For example, if you ever go to CapFriendly or Puckpedia or one of those sites, you'll see if you look at contracts like Matthews or Tavares or Marner, they are paid in a huge signing bonus every July. And for the season, they're basically league minimum players.

Their salary for the year from game one to game 82 is close to league minimum, if not league minimum. And basically what it is, is it puts the money in your hands sooner and you can invest it or do whatever you want to do with it. And most people will tell you that makes money more valuable. So then there are some teams who are really against this. They don't like it. They don't believe in bonuses. But it's one of the ways the Maple Leafs can flex their muscle, and they do. So that is kind of what Nick was talking about there,

is that structuring it in terms of bonuses, that means that every year on July 1st, he can get the vast majority of his salary as opposed to having it paid out like the regular peons you and me, Jeff, do twice a month. Yes. Very good. Okay. Scott in Lehigh Valley valley let's finish with this one scott from lehigh valley go flyers visiting the gta from the states for my son's youth hockey tournament

currently sitting at a montana's obligated to quote try the ribs yes man i'm saying i'm saying man it's the thing i've always wanted to know, in your opinion, what is the most important rule change that gave us our modern, fast, and entertaining game? Good job, Jeff. Nice work, Jelly Dom. Hang in there, Elliot. You will get the swing of things soon.

That's a good one from Scotty there. Yeah, what's the most important rule change that led to this game being the way it is right now? What would you say? Like, this is more up your alley. The crackdown on obstruction. The crackdown on obstruction coming out of the lockout of 0405 completely opened this game wide open. And a couple of things happened because of it.

One, the players that were already in the NHL had to essentially learn how to play the game again because what worked the year before the lockout didn't work anymore. And there were, I mean, you remember, Elliot, there were a lot of general managers that thought the crackdown on obstruction was going to be, ah, you know what,

they'll do it for a month and then we'll go back to water skiing. You know who really thought that? Bob Clark. Bob Clark. thought that? Bob Clark. Bob Clark. Bob Clark. Bob Clark. He signed Mike Rathje and some other players right out of that.

And I remember- Darian Hatcher? But, you know, Hatcher, I think, was a bit different. No, but still, he wanted big, large defensemen. Rathje was more like, this is going to come out worse than I mean it to be because people are going to say, Elliot says that Mike Rathke sucks. No, that's not what I'm saying.

I am just saying that he was a guy who needed that a bit more and he was very good at it. But you know, Clark admitted later, he was like, I thought they would just fold like they always did. Yeah. Cause there were attempted crackdowns before.

That's a really good point. Yeah. Because we think that that was the only time they cracked down on obstruction. Not true. There were phases. Because we think that that was the only time they cracked down on obstruction. Not true. There were phases. Remember, it was parades to the penalty box. Were they going to crack down on the clutching and grabbing?

And then all the managers complained that there were too many penalties. And they went right back to water skiing, guys. Well, the players did, too. There were some players who didn't like it. They thought the standard was ridiculous. But I think in the long run it turned out to be better for the game you know i was going to say that one too jeff but maybe is there a more of a historical one that you would think about like i think about remember there was a time you

couldn't make forward passes there was a time goalies were not allowed to go down on the ice. Yes, and that's where we got the phrase goalie stands on his head. Because the goaltenders weren't allowed to go down, and a number of them would petition and argue quite vociferously about being able to go down

to make saves. Frank J. Calder would have been the president of the NHL at that point, and he finally relented and and in his most famous quote which endures to this day he said you know what if goaltenders want to go down to make saves fine let them do whatever they want for all i care they can stand on their head really and that's where we get that's where we get the quote of goaltender stood on his head from from frank j calder in the early 20s. Oh, yeah. Were you in the room when he said that? Yes, I was a cub reporter then. Was that the first year of the brass tats and Guelph just can't count properly?

You cited it at 75 years, I believe. I don't know. I'm from Guelph. Apparently, I can't do math. The forward pass one, certainly, because it wasn't just that you weren't allowed to make the forward pass, but there were only certain zones where you could make the forward pass. Right.

That is obviously a huge one. I mean, I think everything is a matter of, you know, sitting on the shoulders of what came before. You know, once upon a time, it was, you know, six players plus a goaltender on the ice and one player was taken off. The positions kind of changed there was you know there was rover there was cover point essentially and those positions vanished and and got us to the formation where we see now and i think now it's interesting you know the when when you look at what the next steps of the game is going to be you know uc a hocus is a coach with the kitchen rangers of the ohl and there's a couple of really good podcasts out where he's talking about where he sees the game headed. And a lot of people think he's just going to be a one and done in Kitchener.

That pro hockey North American is going to come and call him. Oh my God, you love this guy. Well, I do love him. But his point through all of it is, whenever he's asked where the game is heading, he always talks about positionless hockey. You know, whenever he's asked where the game is heading, he always talks about positionless hockey that, you know, the, the skill sets now players are so good and so high. The idea of only knowing how to play like a table hockey lane is gone.

Yeah. That everybody understands now positional awareness and how you behave in certain places around the ice, that the old ideas of this is what a left winger does. And this is the lane for the left winger. And this is table hockey. And this is what a left winger does and this is the lane for the left winger and this is table hockey and this is where the left winger goes or you know if you're a defenseman how many times you've heard this rule oh if you're a defenseman in your own zone and you can't touch the boards with your stick you're out of position things like that are going to be gone yeah it's going to be complete positionless hockey i think that's the you're going to line up

in a position for the face-offs but after that positions are essentially meaningless you know what i gotta tell you i'd feel a lot more appreciated if you loved me as much as you love this coach and kitchener he's got a really cool goatee too man um do you think that that's where the game is headed to just i don't think i've ever asked you that i think it's going towards just completely positionless do you believe that that's where the game is headed to? I don't think I've ever asked you that. I think it's going towards just completely positionless. Do you believe that as well? I do. I do. I think that we, I mean, look, we're definitely getting there. You're seeing more rotation,

more defensemen encouraged to be aggressive. There's no question that we're headed in that direction. But there's still going to be a value to players who can skate backwards, things like that. You can see still now that when forwards see that forwards are back defending them, their eyes light up like that's a raw piece of meat. So until these players actually know how to defend, and that's a lot of work, I don't know if we'll ever 100%

get there uh excellent question uh nonetheless um montana's thought line montana's barbecue and bar canada's home for barbecue again the way to get in touch with us 32 thoughts at sportsnet.ca we're on the thought line 1-833-311-3232. Back in a moment to wrap up the podcast. Okay, Elliot, let's wrap up the podcast today by talking about our colleagues Wednesday. Hey, did you know that they talked about the whole Jets Minnesota thing on Wednesday night? I didn't see anything about it on social media. Did you know that they discussed it?

Yeah, that's why I'm setting this up to talk about our colleagues on Wednesday night. I thought that Jennifer was going to roll up her sleeves and Jamal was going to have to take his jacket off all of a sudden. I mean, you guys are talking about, both of the terms you guys use, revenge and sending a message.

I just, I don't know. You watch the play, you see Perfetti, a young, great player in your league. You think that's what you want to present or succumb your young, talented players to? That it's okay if I'm this far from Carolyn to two-hander as hard as I can in a one-foot radius?

I don't know. I don't think that's what's selling your game for your biggest stars, your skilled players. You're saying, okay, if you're a young player coming up, be ready because this could happen to you at any point. Yeah, it could. And at the end of the day... And you're okay with that.

If it's your son out there playing and he takes that two-hander to the face, you know what? It was a good message to send. But if it's your son out there playing and he takes that two-handed to the face, you know what? It was a good message to send. But if it's your son who took the cross-check to the side. Then he's going to understand that you have to then go do something and make amends. Either handle it yourself.

This isn't our kid. Yes, it is. That was, I mean, first of all, it galvanized opinion. And everybody, like everything else on Twitter X, everybody grabbed their side oh yeah and grabbed their and grabbed their pitchforks and dug in and started hurling uh at one another like it was quick like i thought that my timeline this week and it was pretty much dominated by minnesota wild fans versus winnipeg jets fans like i don't know how much conversation you got

wrapped up in but i got tagged on a lot of these fights. And then I ended up getting tagged in a whole lot of them between Jennifer Botterill and Jamal Mayers coming off the discussion about Ryan Hartman and Cole Perfetti. What did you make of all of it? Well, first of all, I don't understand why everything is always, actually, I do understand. It's just the way the world is now. But it's just funny how everything is a referendum on everything now, right? You can't just enjoy people talking and having an opinion. Like, I love this segment. Like, to me, it didn't almost even matter who was right or who was wrong. I just really enjoyed watching the argument, right?

But, you know, everything turns into a referendum on everything else, which to me is kind of lame. But look, I thought it was good TV. I really enjoyed it. You know, as I said to you on your show, I think the Jets put on a master class here of making sure that this was a thing. It was Karl Rove-like or James Carville-like. that this was a thing it was it was uh carl rove like or james carville like and and it's it's strategy of of making sure it got out there um you know you and i think both of basically feel the same way if we were in 1994 no people would be like well of course we did it ourselves. That's what we do on the ice.

But the world is a different place now. And as you tweeted out, because it's heard on the microphones, you can't use it in supplemental discipline. I don't think this is the first time that the microphone has caught something that couldn't be used. That was kind of hinted to me by a couple of teams that this problem has come up before. And to me, the most interesting thing about it, Jeff,

is actually the philosophical debate of microphones need to be everywhere and teams and players better understand that they've got to be everywhere and stop whining about it and accept it. And, you know, this came out. Look, I think this. I think the Jets were livid about the whole situation. I think they were mad that Hartman, who has a long rap sheet, didn't get more of a suspension for it.

Now, somebody did point out to me that's usually the kind of thing the NHL doesn't even find for, but they did in this case, though that won't satisfy the Jets. They did point out to me that's more than the NHL usually does in this kind of a situation. But I think what they were really angry about is it was perfetti. This is what I think it was all about. Why the Jets came forward, they made it known, they made it clear, is because it Perfetti. This is what I think it was all about. Why the Jets came forward, they made it known,

they made it clear, is because it was Perfetti. A player who's battled injuries, a player they didn't think should have to pay any punishment, a young player. And they felt that because there had already been fights, one in the previous game and one in that game, that Perfetti didn't need to have this happen to him. And, you know, part of me wonders if there would have been this big a controversy from the Jets'

perspective if it wasn't Perfetti, but we'll never know. What I do know is the Jets were really mad that he was the target. And I think on some level, this is the Jets going to the mat and saying, we want to show our players that we have their backs, that this was not right. And look, they won two games against Minnesota. They stood up for themselves physically. Like the Jets are getting a reputation as a bit of a mean team, which post-Bufflin, i think they've kind of had some trouble getting back to um but you know i i would not be surprised if deep down some of this was

we're going to show our guy that we're standing up for him uh a couple of things there one um one of the things that i was told about this is that, and I don't know if this matters at all, but I was told that actually Ryan Hartman was quite polite about the whole thing. That if you can have a polite threat, that that's how this was handled and almost in a sort of matter of fact fashion from Ryan Hartman. And the other thing that I wanted to add to this one, and you already mentioned his name, I can't help but thinking what the dynamic would be like if Dustin Bufflin was still on the Winnipeg Jets.

If Dustin Bufflin were still there. Like, you know how much I miss, and I think you feel the same way. Oh, yeah. How much I miss Dustin Bufflin in this game and really wish he was still playing in the NHL. And even just the dynamic of he's a Minnesota guy playing on the Winnipeg Jets against the Minnesota Wild. I just thought that that would have added a whole new delicious layer

in this rivalry between these two teams. I don't disagree with you. I don't disagree with you at all. But to me, again, I'll just say it again. This was, you know, the Jets were really upset there was no penalty to Strome for Connor. And I think that, you know, they've always kind of been polite. You know, grateful to be back in the league.

Happy to be back in the NHL. I think this was a little bit of sometimes in this league, the squeaky wheel gets the grease and you got to stand up for yourself a bit. I think the whole thing's really interesting. I, I think it was the jet saying, you know, generally we're pretty nice guys.

We're, we're not going to be nice guys about this one. And I'll finish by saying something else again. I really miss Dustin Buffett. All right. That's the podcast. Enjoy yourselves. Enjoy the hockey this weekend.

We'll talk to you again Monday morning.