32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Time Has Come For The Canucks

Episode Date: December 6, 2021

The Vancouver Canucks fired their head coach and general manager on Sunday. Jeff and Elliotte discuss the changes (00:01), the timing of them, the hiring of Bruce Boudreau and the impact he may have on the players, and why it was time to move on from Jim Benning.Outro Music: Aaron Frazer - Bad NewsCatch Aaron on tour right now and listen to his debut album “Introducing …” hereFull transcript for the episode can be found here by Medha MonjauryThis podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

You just cool your thumbs. You put your feet up. We'll land the plane here, son. Major changes in Vancouver. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented by the all-new GMC AT4 lineup. Elliot, it was the slowest moving story, but it hit a peak crescendo on Sunday evening. Here's what we know, or actually help fill in some blanks of what we know at 825 Pacific time. Benning is out. Green is out. Those are the two majors. Those are the two primaries.

Color in the rest. So I think what had happened, and we've talked about this, there's one manager who joked that, oh, I can't wait to hear about Vancouver for the ninth straight podcast. Yeah, I know, but this is actual news. So I think we documented it, Jeff. And that is that the Vancouver Canucks, you know, you go back to about a month ago, they had that weekend where they lost three games in four nights on the Saturday night, they lost in Vegas on the Sunday night, they lost in Anaheim. You was an organization that hoped they'd challenge the Pacific Division this year, be in the playoff race, and all of a sudden, they weren't even close. Ownership had a big meeting on the Monday, and they said, okay,

well, we're not where we want to be here, and if it doesn't turn around, what are we going to do? They started looking into names, seeing who was around there. I think they looked into some names, figured they'd better go deeper, kind of look around. Montreal makes some changes. Okay, there's some new people available. Continue doing our research. And the one thing I was told, and we talked about Claude Julien and the other possibilities there.

And the one thing I was consistently told, Jeff, was they're not making any long-term moves until they're sure that they have the people they want. And it wasn't getting better. I mean, they did have two wins this week against Montreal and Ottawa, but then you go home, you have a night like the one you had against Pittsburgh, the fans are throwing jerseys on the ice. They're booing.

There's the fire Jim Benning chants. But what I really think hit them, in addition to all of that, at the end of the game, seeing the look on Travis Green's face, seeing the look on the players' faces, you could see it, Jeff. They were out of answers. And the Boudreaux thing, my guess is, and it's only a couple hours since the word got out that he's being hired,

my guess is that they've been talking to him for a few days. That's my guess. I don't know that, but it's my guess based on I don't think they were the only team considering hiring Bruce Boudreaux. So I think the Canucks and anyone else who might have been thinking about it, they were kind of sitting there knowing he might come off the board soon. So banning situation, I don't think they know who they're hiring to run their hockey ops yet.

So we're expecting an interim there, that makes sense and boudreau one thing i was trying to figure out was the term well we now know it's this year and next so it's not a long term so basically we've got a situation here is vancouver made changes maybe before they thought they were going to but they didn't do anything with term because i just don't think they were ready to commit to that yet so a couple of things here and I want to get to Boudreaux and whether this hiring means that they think they can quote unquote save the season but back to Travis Green for one second listen we saw the jersey hit in the ice uh the cutaway to Travis Green we've talked about the

thousand yard stare before uh that Travis Green has had on occasion after another Vancouver loss. Just put it bluntly, was this a mercy firing? Because they had just signed him to an extension. I think it was just a realization it wasn't going to get any better. You know, one of the things I really believe this is about is about players like Patterson and Besser.

You look at Boudreaux, his history is offensive players score under him and offensive players play big minutes under him and offensive players get opportunity under him. Patterson and Besser are really struggling. And, you know, if you saw last night, both Scott Oak and in the intermission, we mentioned about Patterson's ice time, that he was on a streak of some of the lowest ice times of his career. Now, there's a good debate about that. You know, you can't fool your players. They know who deserves the ice time and who does not.

But at some point in time, you have to say, this is our franchise cornerstone, and we have to get him back out there. And I think that's what this is going to be about, is how can Bruceuce boudreaux who thinks the game very offensively get petterson and get besser among others going okay so let's talk a little bit more about boudreaux we're going to get to benning here in a couple of seconds but while we're on the on the topic the move to go to bruce boudreaux because the one thing we know about boudreaux is he can give your team a shock, right?

Like whether it's, I mean, most recently with the Minnesota Wild, before that the Anaheim Ducks, and he came in in Washington 2000, was it 07, 08, and took that Washington Capitals team. It took until game 82 against the Florida Panthers, and they needed some help along the way, but got him into the playoffs. Yes. When at the beginning of that season, it looked very bleak. It's almost like Bruce Boudreau is that, in case of emergency, break glass hiring. Does this mean to you, Elliot, that this is a hiring with the mind of, we can still salvage the season because this is the guy that's done it before?

Yeah. Now you're sounding like David Amber predicting the Canucks are going to make the playoffs on Saturday night. Look, are you hoping for a miracle? Sure. You're hoping for a miracle, but I think one of the things that kind of happens,

Jeff, is that I think you're also just trying to get, like we talked about a second ago, your best offensive players back and going. And also, maybe you play a style where even if you're not back in the playoff race, your fans are going to be entertained to come to games. You just have to try something different. Craig Simpson says this all the time.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results it was time and i just think they didn't want to make a long-term commitment they are comfortable with this commitment but what they wanted to do was at least say we have to try to fix the things that aren't working okay to the jim benning decision because you know your tweet was the first one about bruce boudreaux being the next coach and many said hold on a second here how can they replace the coach if the general manager is still in place isn't that backwards uh we subsequently find out that it is a double dismissal

irv gaffar was the first to confirm it yeah i just couldn't prove it right and credit to irv he was the first one to be able to prove it. This was coming eventually. Sure. They'd made a decision. They were going to make the change. And I just think they decided to do everything all at once. Now, you know, I believe that the owner really liked Benning.

And I don't think that was an easy call for him. But, you know, you reach a where you you have to do what you feel you need to do you know Jim Benning can't say he didn't get an opportunity there he was there for almost a decade and at the end of the day it was time and it's that simple do you think these moves let the players off the hook no No, I don't think that. And one of the reasons I think that is also is that they waited a lot longer than a lot of other people would have to make the changes, and that was one of the reasons. They could have made moves right after that Vegas-Anaheim weekend,

and one of the reasons they didn't, I heard, was because they wanted to send that message. Well, the reason I mention it is normally, and I know the word they didn't, I heard, was because they wanted to send that message. Well, the reason I mention it is normally, and I know the word normally doesn't mean much, in a tightly salary cap NHL where there's not going to be an increase in the salary cap next season and two during a pandemic as well. I know there's nothing normal about any of this, but normally the way these things happen is before there's a coach dismissal the general manager tries a trade to try to jolt the team and also to indicate to the team that if you know i may want to fire the coach or i may have to fire the coach down the line here

but i'm not letting you guys off the hook i'm going to see if we can shock the system first yeah i'm going to see if we can give you guys a jolt. Jim Benning wasn't allowed to do that. Yes, I think that's true because like I said, I think that ownership looked at it like we're not making any mistakes that we're going to regret for a long time. And to be honest, in this time where there's an interim setup running the team, Jeff, I'm not convinced they're going to be doing any major surgery. You think an interim setup running the team jeff i'm not convinced

they're going to be doing any major surgery you think this is stay the course right until the end of the season now for the vancouver canucks i don't know if it's to the end of the season but i think it's for now you know what have we seen the last couple weeks all of a sudden there's a change in montreal you know we we're all sitting here looking at Philadelphia, right? What's going to give there? You know, Jeff, the stress is on in the league. There's no question about that. The stress is out there.

I think if you're the Canucks, you're sitting there and saying, okay, who's going to be available? That's what I think is going on. I think they're going through the names and then they're looking at the rest of the names and considering, okay, who's not available yet, but we think could be. All of that, I believe is going on right now. Now, if somebody calls you and says, I want X player and I'm prepared to give you this unbelievable deal. And you look at it and you say, whoa,

then all of a sudden you got to make a decision. But generally, I don't think Vancouver's in a position right now where they're looking to make major immediate surgery. As a matter of fact, I think they've decided, as you talked about, they were doing the exact reverse. They were slowing down everything to precisely avoid making that kind of a mistake. Because you always wonder about where a team considers itself to be in their winning cycle.

And sometimes the general manager can think that they're further along the road and they make a deal that really should be made at the last minute. Instead, they make it early and it costs them. One of the obvious examples there is probably someone like Phil Kessel with the Toronto Maple Leafs. Other people have said the timing of the JT Miller deal was probably off. That's someone you bring in at the last minute, not early, when you're rebuilding a team.

Where do you think that Vancouver, like the Aquilines, do you have a sense of where they think they're at and how close they are to being on an uptick in their winning cycle? Well, I think we've talked about that. I think they thought this was going to be a good year for them. Right? No, what I'm saying, like now in light of everything that's happened, like, do you recalibrate where you think you are?

I think they're in shock absolutely i think they're completely stunned by this see that's why i wonder about subsequent moves of players well i i think when you're in this situation you know i know that people in vancouver wanted blood and they wanted it fast but sometimes i think that's the worst thing you can do. Most of the time, I think that's the worst thing you can do. And slowing down the situation is oftentimes the right thing. And in the Twitter social media speed world, people don't like to hear that. But that's the right approach.

I think what this year has done is look they were building towards this whether you agree with their plan or not okay as an organization they were building towards this year this was going to be a big year for them okay and look at where it went so now now, to their surprise and disappointment, what they thought they were building to was wrong. So now they're sitting here and saying, okay, where are we? And what are we going to do to fix it? And they're still in that process.

Like they made these changes today, Jeff, but that doesn't mean the process is finished. You see, because, you know, Benning made these moves in the off season and we all said, this is the indication that Benning knows if it doesn't work this year, there's going to be major changes. And, you know, here we are in early December, it hasn't worked and we've seen changes, but I mean, they brought in, like, I mean,

the obvious one is Oliver Ekman-Larsen, right, who's at the $7.2 million cap it through to 2027. You know, they got rid of a lot of, you know, bad contracts, but they were bad expiring contracts. And they cleared those decks to make way for a shot at it this year. I don't know. Like I, I just, I just look at it and I say, to your point, they must be shocked. They must be feeling a little bit overwhelmed and they must be confused about their team

right now. Like, what do you do with the Vancouver Canucks right now? Like you're the, you know, you're the, uh, you're either the interim manager or you're the full-time manager. What do you do with this team? Where is this team? I think you're calling a timeout. I think they are doing the right, like I said, I know the Canucks fans wanted blood.

And on Sunday they got it. But in these moments, I always think, slow it down. You got to a situation that was untenable after Saturday night, and what they did was they did what they were hoping to do, and that is not to do any long-term commitment in a rush. And they accomplished that. They've got an interim GMm and they've got a coach who's got a lot of experience and will try to get their best players going but not at a long term

if they were going to make a change they didn't break from their plan now they've got to do the same thing with their players who can we count on who can we not count on and what are we going to do about it and don't race into anything it's funny because that manager the texan says oh i can't wait for the ninth update on the vancouver canucks to lead the podcast is is certainly funny and but it's not without its truth i mean this was a constant update whether it was on this podcast on the radio show it doesn't matter it was on almost every day what did you make of this entire season of the Vancouver Canucks? Like the story and the vitriol and the Twitter fights and the arguing and the nastiness. When you go into markets, you have to understand them, right?

What are you getting into? You know, Marc Bergevin, he thought he knew what he was getting into in Montreal. And he lasted there for a decade. And we talked about him. It aged him like George Bush or Obama. Got him jacked too. Yeah, well, he was always jacked. Bergevin was in great shape.

But he reached a point where he said, I can't do this anymore. And I'll say this, that one thing I've kind of realized now is, you know, I think Bergevin, I don't know if he said it or it was kind of brought up or how it happened, but I think Bergevin, when he knew he wasn't getting an extension, I think he was ready to go at the beginning of this year. And I kind of wonder if everybody could do it over again, they would say maybe we should have done this

at the beginning of the season. But I think in Vancouver, you know the same thing can happen. It's a tough market. It's a tense market. But the one thing I always say, like people ask me about hockey in Canada, and I say, if you win, you're a god there. Or if you play hard and you have, yeah, there's down moments.

And when it goes bad, it sucks. But if you win, you're a God there. And that's the trade-off, right? That's the battle. But when it's bad, all you had to do was watch the team as they left the game on Saturday night. And when we went to the chairs that's what Kevin and Kelly were talking about like they know what it's like Kelly just as a

player Kevin is a player from Vancouver they know what it's like when the game is over and you're just sitting there and you're thinking to yourself what do we Like Boudreaux, you know Boudreaux. He loves to coach. He wants this challenge, okay? He wants this challenge. But he knows the rewards are high, but the valleys are low. And even if you're prepared for it, I don't think sometimes you always understand it.

But if it's just me, and this is just me, I would love the opportunity to do something where the rewards would be enormous if I was successful. So I can't wait, Jeff, until I find something I'm actually successful at. I want to ask you, how do you think Bruce does with that market? The one thing we know about Boudreaux is he's charming. People like him.

He's a great interview. He's a great quote. He does not hide his emotions at all. He's a very expressive person. He's a great storyteller. We talked earlier about him being able to jolt the team to get the most out of offensive players specifically how do you think he does in this market i don't know that like i don't know that they've ever had anyone like boudreaux before yeah that's a good question

off the top of my head i can't think of anyone like they've had like i'm just thinking like personality like harry neal like roger nielsen was smart like they've had like i'm just thinking like personality like harry neal like roger nielsen was smart like they've had a lot of smart people there right they've got they have a lot of intelligent coaches harry neal dry humor like quick-witted but they've never had anyone like boudreaux like paul reese is a good example out of this like a lot of people really like paul maurice but he can be really biting and sarcastic yes like people who think that bruce boudreaux is this cuddly funny guy all the time no he's nasty he can be totally nasty that's the thing like to be a good coach to be successful the nice even the nicest people have to be nasty from time to time

and i think people are going to be surprised at that because he's going to have games where he's going to be like that and i don't think it's a problem i think it's it's totally normal and i think people are going to find that that edge is there more than you realize like i've seen that on people before so you know will he be funny yes will he have light moments yes but will he have situations where he bites people's head off or he's nasty and snarky? Of course he will. Because that's the way coaches have to be sometimes. And when you're losing, you're really like that because losing sucks. So I think you're going to see both sides of them.

Okay, let me ask one more thing about Bruce Boudreaux. But with respect to the players, whenever a new coach comes in, this is a sweeping generalization, but here I go. There's always one or two guys that really benefit from the new coach. Like you look like, oh, this guy's going to get along great with player X and player Y. Are there two obvious candidates for you, knowing Boudreau and seeing his past with Washington, Anaheim, Minnesota? Are there a couple of players that you look at and you go, oh, this is a dream situation for these guys?

I think Patterson. There's no way they were hiring Boudreau without talking to him about Patterson and probably Besser too. But the number one problem they have to fix this like look they have to fix their defense yes they have to fix their defense and their systems and stuff but from an individual point of view the guy that gotta fix is Patterson and there's no way to me that they didn't do this without a lengthy conversation about Patterersen. So it's Sunday night and we want to get this out.

And Jeff has to be up early because for whatever reason, he feels indebted to Sid Cicero that he has to wake up early and do breakfast TV on Mondays. Every Monday. Every Monday at mom and Sid. You know what? There's no question you're a much better guy to him than he is to you. Like there's no question about that. I miss him. I miss hanging out with Sid.

Sid's a good man. You know, just some other things to keep an eye on, like Philly. That was a tough loss against Tampa. And the Matthew Joseph shorty, ah, Carter Hart gets pulled, and ah. And he's generally played really well. Here's the thing that really concerns me about Philly, okay? So Chuck Fletcher, the media's all asking to meet him, so he comes out, he says, we've all got to pull together.

They lose Wednesday in New York. But here's the thing that really concerns me about it, okay? So after the loss to New York, they have three days off. Look at Tampa's schedule. They play at Minnesotanesota the sunday before they play at st louis the tuesday before they come home to st louis on the thursday then they play boston at boston on the saturday so philly is their fifth game in eight days okay now they had a day off in between every game but it's a tough schedule okay yeah they shouldn't be winning that game seven to one i was gonna say does that feel like

a seven to one game schedule game like no as a matter of fact i had a guy i know who likes to bet he was all over me to bet philly in that game because he said that is a scheduled defeat for tampa and you know obviously the betting doesn't mean everything but they're going to play colorado amber was that david it was david it would be something amber would do because it's a losing move like nobody has worse losing gambling moves than david i'm there saturday with you too i know how you behave but that's the thing that concerns me it's not only that you lose it's that you know they're playing the day before you're sitting there waiting for them yeah yeah i was thinking about doing a pod like look let's do all the good situations that we haven't talked about yet things like okay

columbus has really been good. Detroit's been a big surprise. Minnesota has been real good. Minnesota's fantastic. Seattle's on a hot streak. Why don't we just do one? Washington is having a stunningly great season. Why don't we just do one podcast where we talk about good situations, Anaheim, good situations for a change.

Chris Crider's scoring a lot of goals. Rangers, absolutely. But all these bad situations keep on ruining our lives and our podcast. Dallas Stars are hot. Jake Ottinger's a star. This is great. Aaron Ekblad's having a Norris Trophy-type season. All right, go to bed.

You've got to get up early. I do, I do, I do, I do. So a quickie news podcast for this Monday morning. And we got an interview we're taping that I think on Monday, I think you'll be happy with. And then we'll do a news podcast later in the week. All right, taking us out today. And I swear this is not an audible called by Amal.

This is just the way the tune popped up. According to Amal Delich, our music curator. Taking us out is a Brooklyn-based songwriter who's currently on tour with Black Pumas. Aaron Frazier comes with a classic look and a classic sound as he steps away from the drum kit to center stage. His debut record, Introducing, takes a listener on a lyrical journey. From one of the great albums of 2021, here's Aaron Frazier with, and we're not making this up, like this just came. Here's Aaron Frazier with Bad News on 32 Thoughts. It's true, man.

The podcast. Can you feel me? I'm trying Trying to tell you Trying to show you But you don't listen So it's bad news Yeah, it's bad news Yeah, it's bad news Yeah, it's bad news Yeah, it's bad news Yeah, it's bad news

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