32 Thoughts: The Podcast - To Challenge or Not to Challenge?

Episode Date: June 5, 2026

In this edition of 32 Thoughts, Kyle Bukauskas and Elliotte Friedman react to the Carolina Hurricanes heroic comeback in Game 2 over the Vegas Golden Knights. The fellas then turn their attention to Dylan Larkin's trade request out of Detroit (22:41). They also talk about the Edmonton Oilers and the potential break up with Darnell Nurse (37:17). Plus some speculation on their head coaching search (40:23). Elliotte also updates the LA and Toronto coaching searches (43:51). Kyle and Elliotte talk about the sale of the Barrie Colts (48:14). The Final Thought focuses on the NHL Awards that were announced (50:00).  Kyle and Elliotte answer your questions and comments in the Thought Line presented by BetMGM (57:08). Today we highlight "Too Tough to Die" by Australian rockers The Lazys. Check their music out here. Listen to all the 32 Thoughts music here. Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail. This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates

What do you think of the way he's dressed? Would he fit in around here? Looking a little rural for us. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast, presented by your Canadian Toyota dealers and the 2026 Tacoma. Get yours before red tag days are over. Happy Friday.

Dom, Elliot, and Kyle back with you, as the late Bob Cole would say, and the series is a brand new one, all squared through two games of this Stanley Cup final as we now head out to Vegas for games three and four. It was Taylor Hall who said on the off day, things can change on a dime at this time of year. It looked like the machine that is the Vegas Golden Knights

was going to roll on through to not one but two victories on the road and absolutely grab hold of this Stanley Cup final almost as soon as it got underway. But, Elliot, what did Jordan Stahl say in the aftermath about the Vegas Golden Knights? They're human. Yes, they are human,

because Carolina, you could certainly see it on their faces at certain points to the first, I don't know what, 50 minutes of that game, that they looked like they were facing a team that maybe was inhuman, no matter what they tried, they could not find an answer.

When I was watching you do that interview with Jordan Stahl, I was actually wondering if Stahl initially was trying to tell us the hurricanes believe they were another species, the Golden Knights. They were not human. I don't even know where you come up with half of those. But, you know, and the reason why I think it was relevant and certainly noteworthy for Stahl to say that line that they are human because, I mean, hey, we're certainly wishing all the best for Brayden McDav. I mean, that was horrifying. The shot that caught him up high there off, Nikolai Ehlers,

had really no chance of getting out of the way. But he leaves the game in the first period, Vegas down to five defense. And it was looking very much like one of the all-time great defensive clinics by Vegas on the road, no less, really up until Logan Stankhoven, an incredible individual effort to get the first goal, to change the feeling in the building

and ultimately, you know, flip this game on its head. It was a clinic. There was not much going on there. I mean, first of all, it turned out to be a great finish and everybody left saying, what a great game and what a great series it is after two games. We had an incredibly entertaining game one, and we had an incredibly entertaining last 15 minutes of game two.

And it's, you know, honestly, it's better for the Stanley Cup final. and the overall quality of entertainment that Carolina won this game. Vegas goes up to nothing. I think people are starting to check out of the series, to be perfectly honest, Kyle. So there were a couple of things

that really changed this game, Kyle. Do you know what they were? Well, I thought that we know Rod Brindamore loves to stick with his lines. He continues to trust the game plan, but he did make some changes. And I felt that helped spark Carolina a little bit. I know, Seth Jarvis alluded to as much in the post game.

And I don't know. I mean, maybe this is a little one here, but I'm looking at, you know, Stancovin, just before his goal, he actually gets waved out of the face off. And does that set him up in the end, in a better position to go track down Rasmus Anderson behind the net, to then win the battle, to then get the puck back? And that leads to the first goal for the hurricanes.

Those are two that come to mind for me. So you're right. Both of those things are right, but those are not the answers I was looking for. The answer I was looking for was the tarps off and Bonnie Tyler. So about 10 minutes to go before Carolina starts the comeback, they asked for tarps off in the crowd. And people start, there were a lot of people in that crowd who took their shirts off. I was surprised at how many people jumped into this with two feet. Now, I will say this.

I'm going to make a bit of a public service announcement. Some of you, in Carolina, when you take your shirts off, you have to make sure that your pants are pulled up because there were some close scenes with people sitting right behind them. That's the one thing that kind of concern me slightly, but I love the general enthusiasm of the audience. And then they played one of the great 80s dance club songs holding out for a hero by Bonnie Tyler. The place was rocking, and the Hurricanes,

clearly, listen to the lyrics and said, hey, I think she's talking to me because they scored three goals right away and almost won the game in regulation. So it's clear the tarps off, tarps off and Tyler were the turning points of the game. Yeah, well, you know, Elliot, my bad, because I clearly wasn't looking up at the video board during that commercial break when they had the tarps off call to action. But I will say as that third period went on,

suddenly they're cutting to fan shots during stoppages and of seeing more and more people with their shirts off. And clearly I didn't put two and two together. I thought it was a big coincidence. But yes, great point by you. That was a key moment

in this comeback for Carolina. And Seth Jarvis credited those fans because, as he quite correctly pointed out, it's not warm in there. The rink is much colder now than it was in the last round against Montreal. Like it was freezing there at the morning skate today. It was cold in there and really throughout the whole day. And of course, part of it being it's now getting quite hot and Raleigh during the day. So trying to combat the conditions to make the ice as good as possible. And we all know the wind tunnels that exist inside.

that Lenovo center. So Stankhoven with the goal that gets them going, still Vegas looked like a team that had relatively things under control. But, you know, I was asking after the game, actually Mark Jankowski, and wondering if, you know, those high flips, like we've seen Vegas do it, you know, I think about that game against Colorado, the Mark Stone goal. I think Ron showed that there on Thursday night. And then one of the Brett Howden goals was, again,

the high flip that just causes problems for the defense with the way the puck can bounce off the ice under pressure especially when you've got a forward hunting them down. And so I wondered, you know, was that a conscious adjustment for Carolina to start doing that a little bit, you know, to give Vegas a taste of their own medicine, I guess, or just to try something different from what they had been doing. And, you know, Jenkowski didn't say that was, you know, specifically what they did and that they, there was no mandate to, okay, start now with the high flips. He just said, starting to play a little more simple, a little more hurricane hockey. So that helped get the game tied.

And then, of course, things only got more intriguing and more crazy from that point on. Look, the biggest part of the game was the challenge. So John Tororella said in the post game, I would do that challenge 10 out of 10 times. I think one of the, as I said on the air, I think one of the reasons, he did it was because their penalty kill had been so good and Carolina's power play had been awful during this particular game too. It's actually really interesting how they challenged and they lost and all of a sudden those things completely flipped on their heads. I really wondered if Tortoella would have challenged if Carolina had been destroying them or having good

momentum with the man advantage. But they hadn't. And that's why I understood the gamble a bit more. I didn't think, Kyle, there was any way that goal was going to be overturned. The referee was right there. He ruled no goal. Ultimately, they felt that Barberchav had poked at the glove or stabbed at the glove and knocked the puck in.

I just didn't see any way that one was getting overturned. I know people disagree. I know there's people who felt it should have been a goal. Fine. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I just looked at the whole situation and said the official's right there and he's making a call. How on earth are they going to overturn that unless it is so blatantly obvious, which it wasn't? No.

And my thing was I didn't think it should be something that could be challenged to begin. with Elliot. And of course, I can't hear. Don't forget, even if there's intent to blow Kyle, if the puck goes directly in, it's a goal. Right. Like, are you talking continuation? Yes. Yes.

I didn't think that was continuation. I didn't either, but that's in a way irrelevant because you can't challenge for that. That would just be a league initiated review. That's not something that John Tortorella would ask for, right? Like he was asking about goalie interference. And I can't, of course, we can't hear what Johnny Bear, the referee, is saying to Ivan Barbasheb, when they're standing behind the net after the play is blown dead. But given his hand gestures, he certainly looked like a guy that was saying the puck was there,

goalie put the glove on the puck, I blew the whistle, plays dead, that's it. That was kind of what I was thinking, watching that all play out live. So then when it became the possibility of Vegas challenging it, now I kind of was in my own head going, okay, did I miss something here? Because all along I thought that this wasn't really a play that should be able to be challenged to begin with. It felt like from what the call was on the ice

is that they felt Anderson had the puck covered, they had it frozen, the play was blown dead, and there was nothing else to see here. So that kind of played with my mind too. Yeah, I thought it was, again, I thought it was a bit of a Hail Mary. You know, you're up one, nothing in the series, and your penalty kill is shutting them down.

I don't mind the gamble, but I didn't think there was any way they were going to win it at all. And by the way, the NHL made the officiating supervisor Stephen Walkham available to a pool reporter post game. I like that and they should do that all the time. That was important.

And because I saw an explanation get retweeted and sent out there, that was, it should do that. It should be available for games like that. But then I wasn't surprised in the least bit that Stone scored to tie it. That's what Vegas does. and then we obviously saw what happened in overtime. You know, one thing I got a chance to speak to Gostis Bear after the game, and I asked him, because his head fake on that last goal,

the winner was incredible. Fooled Kelly Rudy, as he said. Rudy thought he was going to shoot it. And I asked Gostispera, what were you seeing? And if you'll remember on the three, two goal, the stall goal, he shot and Stahl tipped it in. so he said, I knew they would be closer to me. I knew they would be wanting to defend the shot.

So he felt that the flanks would be open. And that look, he said when he played in Detroit, he did that with De Brinket a lot. And as a result, Jarvis and Ahho, who were on the flank, they know to expect it. And Jarvis was ready. And you'll remember in game one, Jarvis had a chance to score a big goal late in regulation,

and he kind of flubbed it. he said. Heart made a big save and I asked him. He said, I put it where I wanted to, but I kind of flubed it. Didn't flub it this time. Put it right home. But Gossus Bear with elite, elite hockey sense and thought process on that play. He knew they'd be closer to him and he made sure the flanks got it. I'm so impressed by that guy. I just think he's such, such a good player. Gostas a great player. And it's amazing when you think about it too. I mean, Gosses Bear, he's had a few stops now when you look at his career,

second go around with Carolina. And I know that power play hasn't had the greatest success rate when you look at the totality of their playoffs. But he's been a big part of that when it's going well. Obviously, big time plays, both on the Jordan Stahl goal, getting the puck through and the winner in in overtime and he's made some incredible incredible things happen in the offensive zone throughout these playoffs for Carolina. By the way, that Mark Jankowski goal that tied the game at two, not only was that a heck of a shot that was also perfectly placed, that goal should not be

a surprise. The reason why Will Carrier, who of course was originally a Vegas Golden Knight won a cup with them in 2003, he was there that inaugural year. He brought up after the game. He recalled a game during his first year with Vegas, Mark Jankowski, then of the

Calgary Flames. I went back and looked this up after he said it. In April of 2018, the Vegas Golden Knights and the Calgary Flames got together. Calgary beat Vegas seven to one that night. And Mark Jankowski scored not one, not two, not three, four times in that game. Carrier has not forgotten it. So he was saying after the game, not surprised that he had that type of a shot in that moment. He has seen him as an offensive dynamo all those years of. ago when he was then a member of the Flames and Carrier was with Vegas. So maybe we shouldn't be surprised that he let it rip in that spot to tie the game for Carolina.

Oh, that's a great call. I love stories like that. That's a great one. Nice job, Kyle. You know, overall Vegas, I don't worry about them. I think they're, look, they were down game one. They found ways to come back to win. They've been down at times the playoffs.

They've come back to win. They were down 3-2. They came back to Senate to overtime. It's 1-1. They're going home to Vegas. Everybody knows that they'll be fine. I do want to shut out Braden McNabb. That low-angle replay is scary, man.

And I hope McNabb's okay. He's a tremendous guy. Like really a tremendous guy to talk with. Original misfit, very big part of their team. and I just hope he's all right because if that guy goes to the hospital, you know, he's like he's one of those guys who you would think a limb would have to be missing

for him to leave the game. So for him to go to hospital, you know that's serious and you hope he's all right. And, you know, one guy I watched a lot in this game, Kyle, Shea Theodore. You know, before the series, Kelly McCrimand really took pains to point out

how much of a better defensive player Shea Theodore has become. And you watched him in this game. Like he was playing both sides because he's a lefty shot. But when he plays with McNabb, he plays on the right side. And he's out there with Anderson and he's playing on the left side because Anderson's a right hand shot. And then he's out there with Lozahn, who's a lefty and he's playing on both sides.

And he's out there with Hanifin, who's a lefty and he's playing on the right side. Like he just goes back and forth wherever. he needs to play, right? And just, I was watching that. I noticed it after McNabb left the game. And it's so impressive. I know some people will hear that and they'll be like big deal. Just as somebody who didn't play at a very high level,

watching him seamlessly go back and forth from strong side to weak side, I was really impressed. It may seem easy for a pro, but for just like a fan of the game like I am, it just blows my mind how seamlessly he can do it. Really impressive from Theodore. And, you know, Jack Heichel that said on Thursday morning that, you know, one of the things that they have gotten better at

as these playoffs have gone on is managing the momentum shifts. Now, I don't believe that momentum is a thing that carries from game to game in the playoffs. I agree with that. Tortorella really believes that too. He's big into that. Yeah, and I would say Brindamore is too, absolutely. So not sure that's going to be a thing as we now head to Vegas for game number three on Saturday. But yes, Vegas is a team that will be able to handle,

even though they look to be absolutely in complete control of this game number two. Can't see them being rattled headed back home for two games after getting the split here. A few other notes from this game, Kyle. Big night for the Western Hockey League. Seven goals in this game. Five from the W.H.L. Two for Howden, Jarvis, Stankovin, Stone. Second thing is, I did want to shout out Freddie Anderson,

made some huge saves in this game when it was still 2-0. And Marner actually hit the crossbar. That was another one. He got some help from his bar there, but he made some huge saves in that game that would not have allowed a comeback if even one of those go in. And the other thing, too, I did want to mention Biazza told us that there was a player on the hurricanes who after game one walked by him as he was waiting to leave the building. one of the hurricane players walked by him and said, we'll be just fine. Don't you worry.

We'll be just fine. I don't think Kevin was that worried about it, but the player did say, don't worry, we'll just be fine. And Kevin said, after game two, that same player walked by him with his family and gave him a cocky nod, as if to say,

I told you so. Okay, before we move on from this game, Elliot, we have all listened to you gripe throughout the playoffs of the various studio commentators that have, in your eyes, stolen your ties. Well, on Thursday, brother, you stole my overall. So Kevin came up with the idea of walking through some of the tailgating, and he asked if I wanted to do it with them.

And I said, absolutely. And I was just going to wear my Sportsnet shirt and my pair of pants. And then you mentioned that your overalls were in the car. And I said, I said, I have to do this now. You know, I made fun of you. I got to try it. Do you ever watch Yo, you got a young son. Do you ever watch Yo Gabba Gabba?

Yeah, it's coming soon. So you'll gabba-gabba they have a thing. It's called try it. You'll like it. Try it. You'll like it. I remember that with my son. I still do that with my son.

He's 14 now and I still do that with him. Anyway, so when I'm trying to get him to do something, he doesn't want to do. So I explain my complicated history with overalls. I don't like them. So I'm just like, you know, and first of all, you're trying to get rid of them, right? So I'm like, you know what? I'm going to put them on. And they're still not for me, but the best was when Kevin asked the one guy,

what do you think of his overalls? He looked at me up and down. He goes, too rural. That was fantastic. Yes. That was the best descriptor that he could have put in there. Too rural. Yeah.

I think you pull it up. off well. However, for a while, I thought I would hang on to those overalls as a keepsake, as a memory from this playoff run, and they will now be headed for the incinerator. That's all I can say about that. Now here is a turn, Kyle. You know what somebody texted me at the end of the game, one of my buds? What did one of your buds text you? Vegas going to find a way to have Dylan Larkin for game three. Oh, man. Yes. If there is one franchise that, at least would think they could get away with something like that. Surely it would be Vegas. But yeah, as if the game itself here at the Stanley Cup final on Thursday was not the

biggest story on this day. You had a real whopper earlier in the afternoon. Dylan Larkin, captain of the Detroit Red Wings, the only franchise he has known since they took him in the first round back in 2014. Michigan, born and raised. He has asked for a trade out of Hockey Town. So what all went on here?

It's a great question. A lot of ways I could go on this one. Well, first of all, you know, Larkin hasn't spoken. His agent, Pat Person, hasn't spoken. And Steve Eiserman hasn't spoken. So I got

to go from picking a part what I've heard about it. Number one, I think this. I think Matthew Kachuk and Quinn Hughes have changed the league. I think players have seen how Matthew Kachuk

could say, look, I'm not signing in Calgary and he gets traded to Florida and he has leverage because an extension has to be part of this deal. No one's trading for him without an extension. and he goes and he makes three straight Stanley Cup finals and wins two of them.

And this year, Quinn Hughes tells Vancouver he's not going to extend. They say, we're going to try it anyway. Season starts doesn't start very well. And all of a sudden he's gone to Minnesota and he's much happier. And I think that more and more players, it used to be Kyle in this league, that if you wanted to be traded, if the team said no, they could make you just sit there.

It's not that way anymore. And I don't think it's going to be the last trade request of the offseason. And Larkin's a star, and he's been in the league for a long time. He's about to turn 30. You know, what someone said to me on Thursday, Kyle, is that even younger players now, if they're not getting their chance to make it, the trade requests are coming more often.

We're seeing guys, for example, terminate their contracts like Texia did. It says, I'd rather terminate my deal in place somewhere else than not play at all. It's a very, very different world right now. And, you know, the other thing I think of with Detroit and Larkin is that, you know, when he won the gold medal this year, that doesn't sate your desire. That's not, oh, I won, I'm good for now. It's like, no, I've won. Now I want to win more. I know what it's like to win this gold medal

and what an awesome feeling it is to celebrate with my teammates. And I want that for the Stanley Cup. It pulls you even more. That's what a couple, I did have some text today with some of the players from Team USA. And they said that that's what happens, is that after that you want to win. the Stanley Cup even more.

Now, I want to recognize the hardcore Red Wings fans. It was a very, very hard day for them. This is a Michigan guy who was their captain, and it's very hard to see that profile of a player say it's time. And, you know, there were some people like who felt that, you know, I should have written in the initial story that, they haven't made the playoffs in a decade, and Larkin as the captain has to take some responsibility for that.

And it's true, and I bet he would, but I was more thinking of what this means for everybody else in the league. I think that there will be some people who will be unhappy in Red Wings Nation because they'll say, you know, Larkin could have been a reason that we made the playoffs. But it's never on one guy. and you know the thing too is that you'll remember Larkin started the four nations on the fourth line and he was one of their best players and in the Olympics he was one of their best players I thought he was great at both tournaments and you know he's about to turn 30 and it is a bit of a frosty

relationship between him and Izerman and I think he just said if I can go to a deeper team I have more of a chance to be impactful and more of a chance to win. Look, it's, again, it's not just on one player. If Larkin goes to a deeper team, of course he's going to have a better chance to win, but I think the Olympics and the four nations have also proven to him that on that kind of a team, he can make more of an impact. You know, the Eiserman-Larkin thing, we all know it's there. It's been very public, but I'm loathe to really get into that.

without hearing more from the two of them directly, let me just say we all know what's there. It hasn't always been an easy relationship for them. And a year ago, Larkin said, I wish we would have gotten more help. This year, they did get help. And if you heard Eiserman and Todd McClellan in their year-end media conference,

it's pretty clear they were unhappy with the fact that they added and still didn't make it. And sometimes I say it's just time. I think it's just time. And, you know, I'll say this. I got a lot of DMs from Red Wings fans who are not very happy with me today. But, and I get it. But I think, I really do think this after the conversations I had on Thursday after it came out,

Larkin tasted victory at the Olympics. And he said, I know what this feels. I don't think we're that close. It's time for me. And we'll see. Now, I think we should talk about Eisenman a bit. Iserman will not be backed into a corner. He will not.

You cannot bully Steve Iserman. But what I do think is he has to be practical. It does him no good. Like I had people say make him sit, make him sit, that doesn't benefit anybody. Now, it doesn't mean other teams can lowball him because then he will have to make him sit. But I think Eisenman will be pragmatic. To me, the most fascinating thing he's going to do here is, is he going to try to trade him for pieces that will help them now? or is he going to do another kind of,

I'll do futures or younger players who might be ready to play, but they're just younger and more inexperienced and build this team now around Moritz-Sider and Lucas Raymond. I think it's possible that he, because some of these teams might say, look, we're getting Dylan Larkin to win

and we can't add him and then subtract. So at the very least, Iserman's going to be looking around and saying, what if we get good players who are younger? And we have to delay our window again. So that'll be an interesting choice for him. I'll say this. Larkin has a no trade clause this year and next. So he has control.

If you're a rebuilding team, like a San Jose or a Chicago, I would be, I would be, curious to see if he really wanted to do that. Like San Jose, it's got to be so tempting to look at Celebrini and say, wow, I'd love to play with that guy for a few years. But they're still far away, right? Or farther away? Is he really going to want to leave a team that's been on the precipice of the playoffs for the last couple years and haven't made it in for teams that are a little

bit farther away. Although San Jose is probably, San Jose is the one team I kind of wonder about would they look at differently, but teams like Chicago, like even a team like New Jersey, which has been in the playoffs and won, does he think they're close enough to winning? Because I know a lot of people suspect New Jersey would make a lot of sense.

I'm looking at Dallas. I'm looking at Tampa Bay. I don't know that Florida could do this, but I think you always have to look at them. But I think the number one team everybody's looking at is Minnesota. This has the wild written all over it. I don't think Dallas is impossible. I don't think Tampa's impossible.

I don't know that he's going to come to Canada. But Minnesota is the one team everyone's talking about. Now, I'll say this too, Kyle. There's been a lot of rumors over the last couple of days that Minnesota is going to be able to resign Mike McCarran that they could pull it off. I don't know if this changes all that, but I had some teams at the Combine tell me

they think he may end up staying there. I don't know if this changes that. That was before I heard this Larkin thing or confirmed it. But like there's a deal there. It's like Yorov, Strammel, who knows what else. It makes too much sense. But, you know, I mean, it's up to Eiserman and it's up to Larkin. And you know what I'm thinking about listening to all of this, Elliot?

I mean, we waited so long and we were all starving for best on best international hockey, right? And rightfully so. It had been far too long, far too long in between. And did it ever live up to the hype at Four Nations? The Olympics were sensational all the way through to Jack Hughes' overtime winner in the gold medal game. But I guess as we went through that, I completely didn't have it on my radar the almost trickle-down effect. Or to borrow a line from Colin Campbell, law of unintended consequences when you look back on the NHL front and how many more stories

similar to this with Larkin will we see going forward. Whether it's in the aftermath of the last Olympics or a World Cup in the future, an Olympics in the future, you name it. But a player that gets put in that environment on an incredible team around great players that know how to win, that haven't had that experience yet at the NHL level and deciding, I don't want to wait anymore. I've gotten a taste of this. We're in an era now where players are having more power as you laid out. It's now for me. I want to keep being in a situation like this moving forward,

where I'm around great players and we're in an environment where we've got a chance to do some special things and legitimately have a shot at winning a Stanley Cup. You know, just those feelings that stem from an Olympic experience, for example. I just, I hadn't thought of that until the situation we're looking at here. year. It's interesting. It's interesting. Yeah, it's a great point. It's a really good point. And I'll say this the other two. Like, you know, I had some guys say to me that, you know,

everybody's worried about it in Canada. Now it shows it's not just a Canadian thing. It's a winning thing. Yeah, you couldn't help but wonder what was going to come out of Detroit's inability to finally end their playoff drought this year because they look to be in such a good position to do so. You know, you mentioned the trade deadline and adding, you just felt that it was not going to be status quo going forward after their season ended. But, you know, this certainly is a surprise.

I clearly Larkin has conviction wanting to do this. his agent, Pat Brousan, a strong-willed man. We know Steve Isamon is as well. I just, I wonder here as we move forward, Elliot, I mean, will they be able to put the emotions aside and do whatever they see is best? And one way or another, they're going to have to work together

in order to make something happen here. I didn't even think about that, but you're right. Like I said, I think there's, I think there's going to be hard feelings here from the Red Wings. I do. And you can't bully him, but he will have to be practical. Okay, so we'll pause on the Larkin story for now, but as if that wasn't enough on Thursday, surely before your report came out, Elliot, Mark Specter had a piece of, on Sportsnet.ca, and, man, it sure seems like Darnell Nurse and the Edmonton Oilers are

headed for a breakup. It's sure, Mark Specter seems pretty convinced about it, right? Like, he wrote it emphatically, emphatically. And that's a piece, you know, for example, with that Larkin piece I wrote on Thursday, you can't write that unless you know. and it took a while until I was confident enough that I actually knew. And I think Spector would be the same way.

The interesting thing for me here is that a year ago, Nurse had a very emotional season-ending interview with the team. And they went to him, and they went to a couple other guys. He wasn't the only one. They went to all the guys who have the no-trade clause.

and they said, would you be willing to move? And he was upset that that got out. He said, no, he wouldn't. And we reported it on this pod and it became a big story out there. And Nurse was really upset about that, which is totally fair. I think he's entitled to react how he wants to react. And this year, they didn't do that at the end of the year. They didn't ask them, and they obviously, based on Mark's reporting, waited a bit longer to decide what they were going to do.

And, you know, the thing about nurses, he's a year away from his no trade clause going from a full to a partial. And it's clear they're going to say to him, you know, this is the last year you have control. do you want to work with us or not and we'll see what he says you never know like darnel nurse is a really proud guy nobody makes it as far as he has without being a really proud guy he might just say i don't like the way this got out like he did last year and i'm not doing this but articles like that are shot across the bow and basically nurses being told you can work with us this year or we'll do it on our own next year. So we'll see.

You know, you still have to be able to make a trade. You have to know what the market is. You have to understand what you got to do out there. But that to me is what this is. It's work with us now or we'll do it ourselves next year. Now, I'll say this too, Kyle. There's been a lot of rumors. I had thought they were going to wait for Cassidy.

And I'm starting to get some signal that maybe they won't. You know, here's, and I want to stress, this is a theory. Do they bring in someone for a year? Now, why do you think they would be just looking at something? someone for a year? Because after that press conference with Commissioner Betman and Bill Daley before game one, they've basically made it sound like it's up to Vegas's will to clear them, right? They've basically said Vegas as well within his rights and he doesn't have the language

that's necessary for Edmonton to be able to talk to him. So unless you think the Golden Knights are suddenly going to change their philosophy out of the graciousness of their hearts or whatever, you might have to go down that route. Right. So you still see a world where however the dust settles here in this final, we go through the summer and into the fall and the Vegas organization is still going, nope, we're not letting you. talk to that team or to that team? I don't think it's impossible. As a matter of fact, privately, those are the smoke signals Vegas is sent out.

Huh. And it would be another year for Cassidy under contract, right? After next season, the deal with Vegas is up for him, right? That's right. June 30th, 2027. Okay. What if your idea is a one-year play? Yeah.

I mean, I suppose it's a bit risky because you're not sure what's going to happen in between that time with Cassidy. But then I suppose if you're looking at one year, I mean, you're probably not looking at a coach with minimal to no NHL head coach. coaching experience. Well, look, I think they've interviewed Lavellette recently. I think they've interviewed Barube. I'm sure they've interviewed others. Hmm. Would you take a shot with McDavid and Dry Settle for a year if it was presented to you?

Now you're out as a coach. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Because then, I mean, what if you pull coach? Kind of a torterella. Exactly. Again, this is just my theory. But I've

begun to wonder about this. Okay. So how about some other coaching conversations? L.A., Toronto. I think L.A. we're going to know early next week. Like I said, I think Jay Woodcroft is still standing. I think D.J. Smith is still standing.

If there's anyone else, know about them, but I think we'll know early next week. In Toronto, there was a lot of people wondering about Patrick Waugh and Peter Lavillette. So one thing I forgot is Eric Laquois, who knows Patrick Waugh quite well, as did his father, obviously, who was his general manager and his agent, he works for the Maple Leafs. So there's a connection. They would have somebody in-house who would know Waugh quite well and have insight into Waugh extremely well. So that's the tie-in. And, you know, Lavillette, I think he's legit too.

I know there were some people who wondered how legit their names were. I think they're legit. Now, I was late to confirm David Carl being out, but I think he's out. as some other people had reported on the weekend and you know I think the Maple Leafs are really interested in Carl and they took their shot at him

and assuming he is out then I think they'll go for experience and it's interesting it was presented to me John Chica has been out of the NHL for a while now he's back

Matt Sundeen has not been in the NHL on a day-to-day basis, and now he's in a major decision-making role. I think the Maple Leafs have considered the possibility they need an experienced coach because of that, someone who's been around, someone who's been in the league, a lot more on a day-to-day basis recently, and that's why I think you're hearing names like Gua and Lavalette. We'll see what they do,

but I think that is, become a factor in their decision making. We mentioned last pod that Jeff Halpern had been interviewed, but he's out. Somebody called me on Thursday and said that they think he's out because the Maple Leafs feel they need a bit more experience. And I could see that rationale and that thought process. By the way, Kyle, I did have some lead fans who asked me about Dave Paniotta. he had a report that the deal with the lease and the Canadians,

or the Canadians that didn't happen was for Nyes. And you mentioned Alexander Zorozky, another prospect, and two firsts. I have said from the beginning, I think the deal involved Nyes. And as I heard it, it was something similar to that. I did hear the same thing that Penaota was able to confirm and report. And what I heard is the reason it didn't happen was it was submitted at 301. Now, I've heard some different variations on why it was late and whose fault it was that it was late. But I don't know it for sure, so I'm not going to go there.

But suffice to say, a lot of people pointed fingers at other people or gave different reasons as to why it didn't have. But I have always believed that was the deal, the nice deal that was submitted late and didn't happen. So I have heard similar to what Panyota mentioned. Now, do you think with this new regime, a trade like that? Is that something they'd circle back on? No. Good question. Excellent question.

But no. But I don't believe it will happen. I think that deal is off the table now. Okay. All right. So before we get to final thought here, Ellie, there have been some rumblings for a couple of weeks now about the sale of the Barry Colts franchise

in the Ontario Hockey League. And you wanted to weigh in on this too. So what do you got? So I think it's going to be announced around July 1st. I was asked about this the other day and I was looking into it. I think it's a huge number. The rumors in the OHL, I don't know if we'll ever get confirmation on it is that it's a really big number.

You know, it's a really weird time with all of the changes, all the questions about the future of these leagues. You know, the USHL announced a desire to expand into California, Arizona and Nevada on Thursday. I think that's the NHL really pushing that. I think they want a bigger footprint. I think that we want them to get 20 teams. You know, the NCAA hockey teams are battling with the governing body

about the new eligibility clock they're talking about here. And of course, the CHL and players that they're losing to the NCAA. but that berry sale, if it's anywhere near close to the number I've heard, that is an unbelievable number. Wow. Well, good for the league. Good for, I guess, where they see still is the future of the Canadian hockey league on the Ontario Hockey League. Wow. Okay.

Still the most important development league. It's been challenged, but it's still the most important. No question there for each. Okay. Time now for the final thought, which is presented by your Canadian Toyota dealers. And award season continues. Drips and drabs here throughout the spring, Elliot, two more announced this week,

the Norris Trophy going to Zach Werensky. And apologies to the Blue Jackets fans out there that we were remiss to mention that on last pod. But I guess you and I were up to our noses and getting ready for the Stanley Cup final. It can kind of get lost in the shuffle on a game day down here, can it not? It sure does.

On game days, I mean, the Larkin thing was so big. You couldn't ignore it, but some of the other things that happened, you just kind of forget it because you're preparing for the game. I mean, I don't know who, could have trouble with Werenski. Honestly, you had him number one, right?

I did, yes. I had him number two behind Dahlene, but it's not like I'm going to be complaining that Werenzky won it. I voted for him first last year. I thought he should have won it last year, but he's very deserving. And I'm not going to complain about that one. This year, we've talked about how difficult the Norris was. Five or six guys could have won.

And so if anybody's got a problem with Werenski, it certainly isn't me. Now, the other one, the Jack Adams, there's a problem. You know, I had a Sabers fan who sent me a DM saying this is your fault. And I laughed and he said, because all year long you've been saying that the likes of John Cooper and Jared Bednar, they never get enough consideration because they're expected to do well. And now people listen to you. and Lindy Ruff lost. It's your fault.

To which I say, if I have that much influence, really, I want each and every person who listens to this podcast to send me $10. Who are you? EF or OF? Oh, my God. That would be unsuccessful. Anyway, I don't think I have that influence, but I do agree with that.

and clearly some other people, Dominic wrote you'd have $10. I want to know, Dom, who you think is going to pay that? Is it you? That was your own float. That's right. I gave it to myself. You know, I do feel that way. I do think that too often this is an award of, oh, you weren't expected to do anything.

You did something. You win. And look, Lindy Roth would be very deserving. Dan Mews would be very deserving. I don't get too riled up about awards. I understand the Sabers fans are disappointed. I just don't get too riled up about awards. The one thing I didn't like, however,

is that someone mentioned to me that there were 40 people who were eligible to vote for the Jack Adams who didn't. Now, the Jack Adams is voted by the Broadcasters Association. Now, even though you and I are both broadcasters, Kyle, we are not members. That's more for play-by-play and analysts. You know, the professional hockey writers association has a rule.

If you are selected to vote and you don't submit your ballot, you can never vote again. And I believe in that. I think that is the right approach. You know, like I said, I don't freak out about awards, but I do consider I have a ballot to vote, I think that's important.

I take my vote very seriously. It's not always right. You're going to see it at the end of year. I know people are going to look at some of the things I do and say, that's wrong. Fine. It's everybody's opinion. But I do take it seriously.

And if I did not submit my ballot on time, I would expect never to vote again. You know, I just think this for the broadcasters association, If it's true that 40 people didn't vote, if I was the NHL, I'd have a real problem with that. You know, you've been given the honor of selecting an award for somebody. If, I don't know, what is that, a third of your members aren't voting, that's a problem. And I think the individual shouldn't be allowed to vote again if they don't vote on time. it's one thing to have a different ballot

that's fine if you can justify your opinion you justify your opinion even if you think differently than me but I do think you have to submit a ballot yeah I'm I'm with you on that one do you happen to know why Elliot so I mean the the awards that the pHWA vote on like the heart the Norris Selke you don't go down the list five names you put on the ballot for each award there

However, with the Jack Adams and I believe also to the Vezna that the GMs vote on, it's only three spots on the ballot. Do you know why it's different? Actually, I don't know the answer to that at all. Okay. Because, and I suppose, you know, maybe this is a unique year, not unlike the Norris, where you're looking at the Jack Adams in particular, and there's three, four guys easy where you could look at and say, absolutely, that is a very, worthy candidate of winning the whole thing. And I'm sure there's examples in the past where an additional fourth or fifth

place vote can make a difference in the slotting. And with how tight this one was, I mean, maybe if there's five names to put on the ballot, does that ultimately play a role in the final tally? Maybe. But I still think, like, I'm with you, Friege. this it's not a legacy award and it should never be viewed that way but I mean what a year the Tampa had and John Cooper the way he guided that group with so many injuries to a really great record and just a real solid regular season and that's what

it's based upon right then the votes are cast of course before the playoffs start I have no problem with the with the result there so congrats to him and and And congrats to Zach Werenski to first Norris Trophy for him. Very well deserved. That was the final thought presented by your Canadian Toyota dealers. And with that, we will take our first break when we come back. It's another brand new edition of The Thoughtline after this. You're listening to 32 Thoughts, the podcast.

Okay, welcome back. Time now for the Thoughtline presented by BetMGM, Make It Legendary. Elliot, we had a legendary dinner here in Raleigh on Wednesday night, the day off in between games one and two of the Stanley Cup final. That is worth shouting out, the Angus Barn and Raleigh, a very popular spot. Any other shoutouts that you have before we proceed? I'd like to shout out that we taped this part of the pod at 3.15 p.m. And I still can't eat yet after that Angus Barn dinner. It was, as I said on radio earlier today,

Kelly's steak, the prime rib, was as big as his head. And Kelly has a gigantic head. Okay. That's right. It's as big as the triangle down here. I can barely fit into the triangle. Okay. I've got a lot of shoutouts from the last few days.

Okay. I was checking into the hotel for Game 5 in Raleigh. Mary from Chicago walked up, big fan of hockey night and the pod. Corey, Jenna, and Ben. Jason and Shire. Jerry. A couple Montreal fans, Dave and Grace. Dave was wearing a great t-shirt that had Martin San Luis face on it with the nickname Marty Supreme as from the movie. I love the shirt. Just a great shirt. Met Amanda Pope who works at CHTV 11, the television and news station just outside

of Hamilton and Ontario. She was at the game with her husband, Joe, and his parents, Joanne. and Rich. They came down. Peter Goce and Gord. I met Alan and Eddie Edwards, both from Colonna. Alan is 86 years old. They made the trip to Game 5 in Carolina. They also went to Game 3 in Tampa Bay, big Canadians fans. Chris Hilton and his daughter, Taylor, Chris came up to me on the concourse here in Raleigh and called me Stank Friedman, Kyle. I knew you'd like. that and then there was two guys Mike and Jerry and Mike actually called me new stank he didn't call me stank he called me new stank also just Justin and Abby from Kansas City he was wearing a Tara Vinen jersey big Blackhawks fan taravinen was his favorite player so he kind of adopted the

hurricanes after Tara Vinen was traded here and then on the flight back down I met a couple Mike and Annie. Annie said she is forced to listen to the pod because Mike likes it. He's from Canada. She's from Raleigh. There was a fan named Kim. Also wanted to shout out Chuck Caten, a long time Whalers and Hurricanes Broadcaster. He was at Game 5. Saw him there. Oh, cool. Kevin Deoneron, who's a therapist. He treats a couple of players on Carolina. He's hit down here at the Cup from Toronto. He was actually walking around near our hotel in a whalers jersey. Scott Bax, who's from Vancouver and works here in Carolina. Raoul Dorontes, who's strength and conditioning coach and team Monsieur from Vegas.

I saw him at the big gym next to the Vegas hotel. Suffice to say, he was lifting a couple more pounds than I was, Kyle. And finally, there was a guy in the stands the other night for game one wearing a jersey, and on it it had C-L-I-A-C-L-A-K-L-A, one of the nicknames or one of the crazy abbreviations I'd done from Carolina, and he put it on his jersey, so I wanted to shout that out. Those are my shout-outs here. That may be your greatest achievement in life, getting one of those abbreviations onto a jersey. When you said checking in for game five, you made game five of the last round, right?

Yes, that's correct. Okay. I was like, yes. Yes. Are you coming back from the future? No, no, I'm not. What's the series at? I'm not back from the future or back to the future, yes.

Okay, good. That's awesome. All right, we've got a couple submissions to get here to today. We'll begin with Nick from SoCal. Hi, Dom, Kyle and Elliot. With free agency fast approaching, I was looking at draft compensation for RFA offer sheets and had a question. I understand that a club is required to have possession of their own. own picks and cannot use equivalent picks acquired from other teams to satisfy draft compensation.

However, I was curious if a team could use another team's pick if it is higher than the compensation requirement. For example, an offer sheet in the $7.2 to $9.5 million range that is signed and unmatch requires a compensation of the club's 2027 first, 2027 second, and 2027 third. The Ducks do not own their own 2027 third. However, they do own three second round picks, their own plus one each from St. Louis and Detroit in the Fowler and Gibson deals.

If Verbeek were willing, though I suspect he isn't, could he use the Ducks own first, their own second, and one of the Blues or Detroit's seconds to satisfy the compensation requirement? If not, what is the reasoning behind not, allowing a team to overcompensate. That's a great question. You can't do that.

It has to be your own picks. I never even thought of this before. Nick, I love people who find loopholes. It's a great loophole, but it still wouldn't work. It's got to be your own pick. And there have been situations in St. Louis was one of them when they signed Holloway and Broberg. They had to reacquire a second rounder that they traded to Pittsburgh. They had to get it back.

in order to do those offer sheets. I could see why you would suggest it. It's just not the way it's written. Great idea, though. Yes. I mean, I feel the last couple years, it's kind of been the same question going into the summer. Is this the summer of all the offer sheets?

Really, since I guess St. Louis did their damage with Broberg and Holloway. But I wonder if there's a little activity there with the rising cap world and teams may be only willing to, their internal budget, goes so far. It's a great question, Kyle.

The one thing that's interesting is that everybody has cap room now, right? Yeah. Some teams more than others, but a lot of people have cap room. However, I like the way you think. I hope you're right. Every year we're like, there's going to be an offer sheet. And there it ever is.

Right. So hopefully you're right. Yes. And just the difference being everyone will have cap room, but is everyone willing to use all of it as the growth continues to- You are totally right about. about the internal caps. It's a great point, and I'm glad you said it.

Okay. Josh from Edmonton. Good day, gentlemen. So I was wondering, we know that Bruce Cassidy is currently under contract with the Vegas Golden Knights. My question is this. If the Golden Knights win the Stanley Cup while having Bruce Cassidy under contract, would Bruce then also be credited with a Stanley Cup win? Or would he have been required to coach at least one game in the playoffs to become eligible. Thanks for your time. I know you guys must be tired. I'm sure Elliot is going to sleep for a week when the playoffs are over.

Can't wait to see the off-season beard and hair from Elliot. Actually, one of our former teammates, Chris Johnston in the dressing room at the morning skate today, asked if I'd plug my finger into a hair socket. So you don't have to wait. It's already there. I was not going to say anything. Luckily, somebody else. did. By the way, I also wanted to shut out the guy who, I can't find the post right now,

but a guy on X asked, said to me, when he heard that my chocolate was dairy milk, he asked if I, for breakfast, I eat shredded wheat with powdered milk. I thought that was funny. The answer is no, but I thought it was funny. Anyway, sorry, what was the question again? I completely forgot. Yeah, it's like the powdered milk. So Bruce Cassidy. Is he considered a Stanley Cup winner again if they do this? No, no, he's not. You have to coach your team through the Stanley Cup.

What's interesting about that is in theory, Vegas could put him on the Stanley Cup. You submit 52 names. You get to pick the names. And if they wanted to, they could put him on it. Judging by the way this is going, I doubt they're going to. I would say it appears to be slightly unlikely. But they could put his name on the cup if they wanted to. when they win this series.

All right, one final one here comes courtesy of Jake from Lakeville, Minnesota. 32 Thoughts Team. As the NHL season sadly winds down, I found myself thinking about hockey firsts and lasts, which led me to a question, has anyone ever pulled off the Ricky Bobby? Now, you might be asking, Jake, what exactly is the Ricky Bobby?

Well, it's when a player scores both the first and last goal of an NHL season. Has it ever happened? And if not, who's come the closest? Thanks for all the great work. And remember, if you're not first,

you're last. What an interesting concept. That's true. That is true. You know what? I honestly don't know, Kyle. Has it ever happened?

So you know that the good people at SportsNet stats will go to great lengths to try to find answers here. The actual first goal of an NHL season and then, I mean, the last is easy to find. But the actual first one is very difficult to nail down.

So I've modified the goalpost slightly here. So we're looking for a player that scored their team's first goal of the season and the last goal that was scored of the season. That I'm playing in the last game, of course, winning the Stanley Cup. not necessarily the game winning goal. I could say this. But the last goal scored of a season. I could say this.

I could see opportunities where Florida could have done it because whoever wins the cup gets to open the season, right? And I can see situations where Tampa might have done it because they would have done it twice. And even though, oh, but they didn't score the last goal of the season in 2022, but they could have done it the other year. Is there anyone in the game here, Kyle? Does it work?

Yeah. So for scoring your team's first goal of the year and scoring the last goal of the season, there are. What years? One very recently. There's a whole covered multitude of errors. There aren't a ton of examples, but the most recent was just a couple years ago. The first time it happened. Sam Reinhart, did he do that?

Yes, very good. Yeah. That was the last time and happened. And one of three examples of a player scoring the first goal for their team that season and the last goal that was also the cup winning goal. So that was the most recent time. The first time it happened was 19, 19, 1920 season. Really?

I'm not going to get that one. Was it Alv Skinner? No, good. That's the only guy could. think of Frank Niebuhr? I'm trying to think of guys who are around. It is? Yes, with the Ottawa Senators.

No kidding. The second name. What's the biggest lottery in existence in the world right now? I'm going to go play it. That's incredible. I was just naming guys were around from there. Still, we're talking about 1920. So there have been, that was the first occasion and the most recent occasion.

And there have been... What year? What year are we talking about here? Eight other examples. Eight, oh, I just name them. People don't want to hear we guess the more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Oriel Jolia did it with Montreal.

Floyd Curry with Montreal. Mark Tardiff with Montreal. Doug Brown with the wings. Nice. 9798. Shanahan with the wings in 0102. Corey Berry with the Ducks. And the last two,

Henrik Zetterberg with Detroit in 0708 and Patrick Kane with Chicago in 0910. Both of those like Sam Reinhart were also the final goals of the season were the Stanley Cup winning goals. So someone is going to be able to go through this. There are enough great hockey historians out there. Someone's going to go through this and figure out how many were actually first, were the true Ricky Bobby.

Jake, we're going to call this the Ricky Bobby in your Jake's Ricky Bobby. You get it named after you. That is, that's a great question. And some historian is going to figure out how many of them were actually true first and last goals. Elliot, we are not finished with this trip. you a question just yet. We are not through with the Ricky Bobby. Okay?

Because, okay, we're going to break the fourth wall here a little bit. The bulk of the thought line we recorded earlier in the day on Thursday, I don't even want to say what time it is right now in the middle of the night, Eastern here in Raleigh, but during the game on Thursday, I got an email from the one and only Steve Fallon at SportsNetStats. He did a little further digging for us. I did say earlier that there was going to be somebody a historian who was going to find the answer to this. And I am not the least bit surprised.

It is the historian of historians, the thorough, the conscientious Steve Fallon. Yes, before this episode could even be published, your call was answered. Steve has delivered here, okay? So, not only did your boy Frank Niebuhr score the first goal for the Ottawa Senators in their 1920 season and also scoring the final goal of that year, he is the only one, according to Felon, that scored on that list, the only one of that group, that scored the first goal of that

1920 NHL season and the last. Opening night that year was December 23rd. There was one game on the schedule that night, the Ottawa Senators and the Toronto St. Pat's. And who opened the scoring? Frank Niebuhr. And then later, in the playoffs, game five of the cup final, he scored the final goal in a decisive 6-1 victory over the Seattle Metropolitan's. I'm actually shocked at this. Maybe you just threw out there. That he's the only person who's done it.

I figured there would have been more. The true Ricky Bobby. That's outstanding. get if you're not first, you're last. He was both first and last. Wow. That's outstanding.

I love that that can be a stat now going forward. Thank you, Jake, for bringing that into our lives. And further melding great Will Ferrell movies and the game of hockey. Great stuff. Okay.

That was the thought line presented by BetMGM, make it legendary. If you would like to submit, your own trivia question, your own question, a thought of your own. You can do so emailing us to 32 thoughts at sportsnet.ca or leave a voicemail at 1833-3-311332. We'll take one final break when we come back. We'll wrap up this edition of the podcast and some music to take us out as well. Stay tuned.

Okay, so now the Stanley Cup final shifts to Vegas. and because they began this series two days earlier with both conference finals going short. The schedule is a little bit wonky for the next little bit and those that would remember in the past, typically in the Stanley Cup final, there are two days off whenever you change cities, but with the move update being put in place,

there is just one. So game three will go again on Saturday night from T-Mobile Arena in Vegas, the pre-game show, getting underway at 730 East. Eastern time, 430 Pacific on SportsNet Puck Drop, a little after 5 o'clock local time, 8 Eastern from Vegas, game three of the Stanley Cup final. We will talk to you again the morning after game three wraps up on Sunday. Taking us out today, a track from The Lazy's. After dominating rock radio with their single Hot Under the Collar, which peaked at number two on the Canadian Billboard rock charts, rockers, the Lazy's are back.

return louder, heavier, and more relentless than ever with their explosive new single, Too Tough to Die. Co-written with longtime partner in crime, Ian DeSah, Billy Talent, Too Tough to Die, was co-produced by DeSah alongside Grammy-winning heavyweight Dave Schiffman. The song is classic lazies, hard-hitting and unapologetically honest. Beneath the volume and swagger, it carries a clear message about resilience and refusing to back down when the pressure is on. It's the sound of a sound of a lot of a song.

a band that has taken its knocks and come back stronger, turning grit and dedication into a full throttle rock anthem. Fantastic. This song along with all the others we've featured this season on 32 Thoughts, The Podcast, can be found on our Spotify playlist, 32 Thoughts, The Music, which Tom Schumadier, producer was so kind to put together for us. Here are the Laisies and Too Tough to Die on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Up against me, all the odds are stacked

Like a stray, tumbling weed, I keep rolling through the desert heat. You can get me to the next track of the time.