32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Tom Wilson And A New Era For Women’s Hockey

Episode Date: March 8, 2021

Tom Wilson is suspended seven games for his hit on Brandon Carlo. Jeff and Elliotte break down the decision (00:00) and wonder if the number of games would have been different if Wilson wasn’t involved. They then chat about Jim Benning’s Canucks press conference (13:00), the continued struggles in Buffalo (18:00) and answer some #Ask31 […]

Who told you about Billy Ray? I've never heard that Someone mentioned it to me once Billy Ray, huh? It was boarding There was an injury There's a history Jacob

Beaten there And Wilson came up high on Carlo there And the Bruins did not appreciate that Yep, Carlo was caught up high on Carlo there and the Bruins did not appreciate that. Yep, Carlo was caught up high there. That was a number 43 missile coming in to clean out their D. And anybody else that was standing in the direction, a heavy hitting shift for Tom Wilson here,

throwing his weight around against public enemy number one, Frederick, and then getting in on their D. And he might be clipped up high also. Right in the schnoz there, Joe. And we'll see if there's any penalties doled out here. Tom may be getting one. Elliott, seven-game suspension for Tom Wilson. I don't want to go over, if I can prejudice the jury here, I don't want to go over the usual arguments here

about did he, didn't he, intention, all that kind of stuff that always gets itself played out hysterically on Twitter. And we saw that Friday night and over the weekend. I don't know if these conversations are going to happen. But what are some of the questions that you had going into the Tom Wilson hearing? And are you surprised that he had one in the first place? And does any part of a seven game suspension surprise you? You know, I think that the most interesting

thing I found is that, you know, there are a lot of people who believe that he only got suspended because he's Tom Wilson. And that if it was just about any other player in the NHL who delivered that hit, we wouldn't be talking about anything here. And I think the Capitals believe that. I mean, you heard Peter Lavillette say it. I saw the hit.

I mean, his feet were on the ice. He stayed down with everything. It just looked like a hard hit in the corner. I'm not exactly sure what happened, but to me it looked like just a hit. You heard Ovechkin call it a joke. And one of the things we talked about on Friday's podcast was how Frederick drove the Capitals crazy on the Wednesday night game, the night two game,

two nights earlier when he was all over Ovechkin, then Ovechkin speared him. And, you know, you were the one who asked okay how was he allowed to do this and then two days later they play again and on the shift with Carlo Wilson tries to engage Frederick a couple of times and Frederick's no I gotta concentrate on winning a game here and he runs over Carlo. Maybe he was frustrated. I don't know. I don't know how Wilson would explain it. But Saturday is a day I make a lot of my phone calls and I asked around the

league a lot and people were just generic conversation. It came up. What do you think about Wilson? How bad do you think he's going to get it? And I did have a lot of people say to me, if this was anyone other than number 43 on the capitals, nobody would even be talking about this. Nobody would be. If it was a hit that anyone else delivered, it wouldn't be a penalty or suspension, a lot of people felt. But that's what happens when you have the history, right? All of a sudden sudden people look at you differently you don't get the benefit of the doubt name uh 400 other players in the league if they throw that hit they get nothing but because of his history yeah that's what happened in this case like i really believe probably looked at ell more as, wow, that was a tough hit with a bad outcome, but because it's Tom, but, but, but I think generally predisposed to assume the worst when it comes to Tom Wilson, but that's a reputation that's earned.

there was head contact. The first thing everybody looks at is rule 48. Yep. A legal check to the head. And is the head the main point of contact? And the answer there is no. This is my guess. My guess is that the people in the NHL department of player safety said, this is not a rule 48.

And then when they started thinking about it, they looked at it and they're like, we don't like this. Is there anything else it is? And if you read rule 41, which is boarding, you know, it's there. You can make that argument. And I think that's exactly what happened is they made that argument and they said that's boarding now it's new precedence you know that's not the way boarding tends to get called boarding tends to get called when a guy is hit from behind and carlo wasn't hit from behind i think that's one of the things that the capitals and possibly the players Association discussed was, you guys don't call boarding like this. And at the end of the day, that's why it wasn't also like 30 or 40 games because boarding doesn't carry those kinds of suspensions historically.

The highest boarding penalty I could find for a suspension was Zach Rinaldo in 2015. It was eight games. Right. And, you know, Wilson gets seven. So I think that's why he got less. You know, the other thing is, you know, the Capitals argued it was a clean hit, like some other people had said to me, and the league just felt the totality of it all was illegal. That's a good point too, because in the video they talk about,

there are situations where you can hit a defenseless player and there are elements of the hit that the Washington Capitals maintain is fine and the Department of Player Safety would agree with, but the sort of catch-all that you mentioned is what gets ultimately Wilson in trouble and does set up, as you mentioned, a precedence.

And that is the term totality of circumstances. That to me is the big one. And I always wonder about, and this is where I was hoping we could get this conversation because I want to get past, man, we all want now the world to be so binary. It's either good or it's bad.

It's clean or it's dirty. There can be no middle ground. There can be no gray in any of this. So I didn't want to get involved in that conversation because that's been played out on Twitter over the last few days. If you want it, go look up Tom Wilson's name on Twitter and you can read the discussion. I'm more interested now in, now that the totality of circumstances and this punishment for boarding

is part of punishment in the Department of Player Safety, there's something that you and I have talked about a couple of different times. We haven't really spent much time with it. I don't think we will right now, but I just want to note it and pick up on the conversation maybe when this happens again, because it will. I've maintained for a few years now that given the nature of how the sport is trying to clean itself up, too slow for some, too fast for others i get it i really believe we are at elliot right now the beginning of the end of board hitting and maybe i should say that more specifically

not board hitting because using the board as a weapon is boarding so that's already in the rule book. But I do wonder, and I've wondered about this for a few years, if we're starting to see the beginnings of the root before the fruit of hitting around the boards, if that is where all of this is leading. I know what Peter Laviolette is saying, oh, you might as well just get hitting out. And that's always a hysterical reaction Like I know what Peter Laviolette is saying, oh, you might as well just get hitting out. And that's always a hysterical reaction whenever someone hits someone and one side agrees and one side doesn't. You know, the side that has the hitter always said, well, you might as well just get rid of body checking now.

Make it flag football for crying out loud. I don't want to get into that hysterical side of things. But I do wonder if now we are slowly going down a route here, which will see the elimination of hitting around the boards. Do you think we're heading that way? Because I do. Maybe. I mean, I think, Jeff, that we're seeing less hitting overall, right? Mm-hmm.

And it seems as if, by the way, right now in hockey culture, there is less of an appetite for huge body checks than there ever has been. The reaction is no longer, wow, he got his bell rung or wow, got to keep your head up out there, rook. The reaction now is that's disgusting this guy should be able to tie his shoelaces in his 40s i think it depends on if it's legal or illegal like we had a big hit saturday night calgary edmonton chris tannev yep threw a huge hit and nobody whined about that kara tried to fight him because to stand up for his teammate as you would expect someone to do but nobody complained about that jeff like i i just think it comes down to do you believe the hits clean or it isn't but this one has shades of gray to it and here's my other question if it didn't happen around the boards

and here's my other question. If it didn't happen around the boards, would it still be a penalty? If that same hit happened at the blue line and not around the boards, is it still a penalty? And that goes to my other point. Are we starting to see the beginning? Well, I think with Wilson,

there's always that debate, right? I think with anybody there would be. No, I disagree. It's more pronounced with Wilson, no doubt about it. There is that history but if Wilson catches Carlo at the blue line with the exact same hit in that circumstance all I'm saying is this is sort of in my mind furthering discussion about hitting around the

boards not necessarily board hitting because that's already illegal but hitting around the boards as the game becomes faster and more dangerous and to the point about body body checks, since we all love them, like one of the things right now that I don't know that we appreciate enough, Elliot, given how quick the game is and how everybody moves their feet. So do you know how hard it is to throw a clean body check in the game now? Like to me, this is one of the toughest, like before when it was table hockey players and anything goes, you could really drop a guy. You know how hard it is to body check now with players moving at these speeds

and shifting bodies and the way the game is played now. And, oh, it's not just this position's job to chase the puck. There's just F1s, F2s, and F3s. And like, it is hard to throw a clean body check. No wonder it's all stick on puck, stick on puck. Hitting's hard. Hitting's harder than it's ever been before. And I just think the next step of this evolution of hitting out of the game is the hitting

around the boards part. I don't know that it's part of a huge conversation right now. I just kind of see it as let's take the Tom Wilson situation and what does this mean for the future? where is this thing headed and I think it's a conversation about hitting around the boards that's my only point it's a good debate we shall see and we shall hear from Tyler

to Minia the interim commissioner of the NWHL on today's edition of 31 thoughts the podcast presented by the GMC Sierra 84 of 31 Thoughts the Podcast, presented by the GMC Sierra AT4. We played like 16 games in 25 nights. In those 25 nights, we had two practices in 19 days. And so what happens with that when you don't practice, when you're just like saving all your energy to play the games,

you have a bunch of new players. Travis doesn't get to, you know, use that practice time to work on our systems. Of course, I'm not happy with our record. But I think if you play the right way, you do things the right way, then we'll start winning our shared games and our record will be better than it is right now. Playing in this Canadian division is tough. The teams are playing against the same six teams over and over again. I have a real good relationship with Francesco. He's the guy that I deal with on a day-to-day basis. Teams have phoned and inquired

about Jake. With Tanner Pearson, we haven't started talks yet. Tanner is an important player in our group. We live day-to-day. We live today. We're in today's world. We want to be in every game. We want to be competitive in every game. We've taken a little bit of a step back so far, but we still have a half a season and, you know, we'll just see how, you know, how things end up. okay so welcome to the podcast that's jim benning general manager of the vancouver canucks at a presser on friday elliot what were your thoughts on the vancouver gm in advance of his team winning two games against the maple leafs sir you know i just have to say i have a theory on that whole uh zoom call okay and that is that jim benning is thinking no matter what i say i'm gonna get destroyed by these guys so i'm just gonna go in whatever i'm just gonna go and and let it fly doesn't matter that to me is what i

thought of when i when i watched it because it was tough like i because it was the same time as the calgary one right with uh brad tree living and daryl sutter so i watched the calgary one live and then i re-watched the kanaka one later and i have to tell you it kind of reminded me of um what you ever see office space of course yes the one character who just says i'm gonna go in honest because nothing i say is gonna matter here because he's dealing with these consultants it's like jim benning is saying that no matter what i come up with here nobody's gonna believe it so i might as well just whatever that's kind of the impression i got i really did you see like do you think I'm wrong? No, I don't.

Because, I mean, Benning in that situation, listen, all expectations are that Jim Benning, to please the majority of Vancouver Canucks fans, they all wanted Jim Benning to fall on his sword. Yes. And he's not going to do that. To come out there and say, hold on everybody. I'm everyone in this foxhole. I'm diving on this grenade.

I am going to do that. I am submitting myself for your flogging. That's all that that was. That's what people wanted. So it was destined to be received the way it was. Look, everybody in Vancouver knows the truth. Okay.

It's dollar in, dollar out. Money's tight this year. They have to get through this year, start getting some contracts off the books, figure out what it's going to cost to keep Patterson and Hughes and kind of go from there. Right. You know, everybody knows that's the situation in Vancouver. They were working on this deal with Anaheim for a week. They were a million a year apart this year on Heinen, and they were 3.4 million apart next year

because Vertanen has another year and Heinen doesn't. And, you know, they couldn't get it to work. So, I mean, we all know what the situation is there. Okay. He already went back and revisited history once, which he's not going to do again. I mean, it's over. You might as well just move on. So there's not really much else he can say.

Like everybody in Vancouver, they know what the situation is. They've got their mind made up and I have no problem with that. I get it. No problem. So he knows that nothing he is going to say is going to change anyone's mind as a matter of fact there's a better than a hundred percent chance that anything he says is going to make it worse so why do it if you're jim benning i don't know i guess it was it was like they reached the halfway

point right yeah you know actually it was funny one gm actually said to me he goes what is it what is this situation here where all these gms are turning themselves on like someone said to me like uh the buffalo one where you know kevin adams is being told that his team's a disgrace like another gm says he's like what are you supposed to do with that you can't say anything to it you can't disagree like we'll get the buffalo here in a second but what do you you can't do anything with that pin pulled out of that grenade because the thing is if you if you start to argue or you fight back, it's a quote forever, right? It's Jim Mora.

It's playoffs. It's there forever. So you really can't pour gasoline on the fire. So I'm looking at like Benning and I'm thinking he's saying, there's no way I can make this better. Short of walking out there and saying, there's no way I can make this better. Short of walking out there and saying, we've got Pedersen signed for $2 million and Hughes signed for $2.5 million or whatever. There was nothing he could have said that day that could have made that whole situation

better. Nothing. Let's do the Buffalo one then quick. We do have some hashtag ask 31s I want to get to today. Some interesting questions coming in this week. And I do like putting the pepper and parsley throughout the program with these Twitter questions. What did you make of Kevin Adams?

And by the way, this is before the Buffalo Sabres lost the consecutive games to the Islanders 5-2. You know, I report on Saturday night, I think the Sabres have everything on the table. Everything. Now that doesn't mean they're going to do everything. I'm not convinced they're doing Eichel. I'm not convinced they're doing Delene.

I think they want to know the value of all their players. They want to know who's got value and what it is, and then they're going to make their decisions. Like I've heard, they are wide open for business, and they are considering all options. Now, the coach, I don't know what's going to happen there. You know, he's under contract for another year. I'm not convinced that they want to spend a dollar more than they have to, but they might.

I know Ralph Kruger is a positive guy. He looks at every day's coaching as the NHL is a good day. But I do wonder if like a guy not as the head coach but if a guy like matt ellis ends up on the bench matt ellis is a relentlessly positive human being he's in the organization you know you remember when craig conroy was on the bench in calgary for like yeah just put him there just to get a better feeling i don't know but all options there are on the table in buffalo you know one person mentioned this to me this afternoon and it made a lot of sense this is coming off your reporting that everything is on the table for the buffalo sabers he said here's

the challenge that kevin adams has right now as a new general manager. He may want to make a lot of moves. He may want to make a lot of trades. But the problem is, as a general manager without experience in the NHL, does he necessarily have all the relationships you need in order to make a trade? It's easy for guys just to sit around the office and play, because we've all done it,

play fantasy general manager and make it as simple as you know picking up the phone and i'm gonna i want to trade you this guy for that guy and you know what goes into trades elliot these are like long time conversations between two guys that have a long time relationship and an understake trades don't just happen suddenly unless there is a relationship between the two parties. It just doesn't happen that way. That's not how trades are done. There's also sharks in the water right now. Yeah, and no one's looking to help the Buffalo Sabres.

And other teams, correct me if I'm wrong, because you cover this beat a lot more than I do, and we're looking at the Buffalo Sabres and say, okay, we've got a rookie general manager here. There's talent on the Sabres roster. This is our chance to pick the wings off of a fly. Like, I don't think you're wrong. I dealt with Adams a lot as a player. He's very quiet now. He doesn't communicate much.

And I think especially now, because you can't pour gasoline on the fire, I think one of the things the Sabres really try to do is they really try to keep things tight. There's not a lot of people in that organization that you can really get to, to find out what's going on. I dealt with him a lot as a player. I like dealing with him as a player. I think he's a smart guy.

I do understand where you're coming from here. It's the first time he's kind of been in, in this situation and he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to be intimidated, but I do think it's potentially overwhelming. I think that's a really good point you bring up. Do you think that the Buffalo Sabres are in need of someone above him? You know, who I've wondered about is a guy like Jim Rutherford.

Like again, like there's a lot of organizations that are looking at it. Like I don't want to spend a dollar more than Rutherford. Like, again, like there's a lot of organizations that are looking at it. Like, I don't want to spend a dollar more than I have to, right? Like, I don't know where that is, but part of the problem here is that, you know, the Sabres had Tim Murray and then they had Jason

Botterill and they didn't like the way everything went. And the Pagoulas are not without blame here, obviously, as any Sabres fan will tell you. But part of the reason they hired Adams is they know Kevin Adams. He's worked for their organization. He's been heavily involved in their minor hockey. They know him. They trust him.

After the way things had gone, they didn't trust other people. They wanted someone they knew. So, you know, that's why they hired him and they didn't make their organization any bigger. They made it smaller. And like I said, you know, I think you make a really good point there. This is a huge moment in their franchise. Like, I don't know if they're going to want to go out and get a Jim Rutherford or somebody like that. I got to tell you, if I was them, I might just say, can I hire Jim Rutherford as a consultant now? Yeah. Put him on as a special assistant to the GM or whatever you want to do and say, hey, can you help us out as we navigate this here?

I still remember Brian Burke telling me this story. By the way, I could see Burke, he's saying, we'll let you do that as long as you give us right of first refusal on Jack Eichel. Yeah, exactly. But speaking of Brian Burke, I can recall him telling me, I remember I asked him what it was like as a rookie general manager in Hartford making your first deal. And he said, it was awful because as a general manager at that time, you have no one to talk to. You have no one to advise you on anything. He said, you know, he picked up and hung up the phone a number of different times before dialing

to make any move. You know, the first big one that he made was the whole league, Sean Burke, Eric Weinreich deal. And he said, you know, I would pick up the phone and then I'd put it down and I'd pick up the phone. I'd put it down. I'd go for a walk around the block and I'd come back and I'd pick up. He said, I didn't have anyone to talk to.

I didn't have anyone who's done this before to bounce any ideas off of. And I look at Kevin Adams with the Buffalo Sabres and I'm like, well, he can talk to the coach who, when you look at, you know, the number of signings and where they all came from, you know, he probably has a hand in, in who's coming into the organization,

but who does Kevin Adams really have to advise him here as a rookie general manager? No one. It's tough right now. It's tough. And, you know, I,

and the other thing too, is I think Kruger had very big say in the organization, but obviously the foundation under him is crumbling right now. He's trying to win games. He can't think big picture. And also let's not forget here too, and this is where someone like, I think of someone like Steve Smith in that organization has a lot of value specifically to Ralph Kruger. I mean, he came back to the NHL after having been out for a long time. So did he come in knowing everybody in the league?

Did he come in, you know, knowing the full history of all the players on every team that are all around him or do you lean on someone like Steve Smith? And I would imagine he would have to lean on Steve Smith a lot because I'm not sure how closely he was following the NHL the time that he was away with soccer. Okay, a couple of hashtag ask 31s.

First one, a frivolous one from Jeremy Wee. When will word association come back? We get a lot of these. We should bring it back. Yeah, and we promise people a Word Association pot. So what I think we're going to do is we're doing two a week right now, and we're glad to do them because it's clear that you, the listener, really likes them, and we really do appreciate that.

So I think what we'll do is, you know, the trade deadline is a month away. I think after the trade deadline, we'll probably take a week off where we do one word association, big podcasts. That's what I'm kind of thinking about for there. I like these short pods twice a week and the word association makes them longer. So I'm thinking about a special lengthy word association podcast after the deadline, and then we'll figure out how to incorporate it a bit more. Hashtag yellow laces from, from Pesh.

I've heard this one a lot too. And there's an obvious answer to it. We should just get it all out there. So everyone understands. Should the NHL stagger start times so that games are not all at intermission at the same time, i.e. seven,

715, 730, 745. That's for those of us who pay for the nhl package and have no games to turn on after the first period as somebody who makes their living during the intermissions i say no but i put it this way like there have been nights when i've been watching games and five go to intermission at the same time and and i sit there just like all of you and i go really i don't think it's a bad idea i guess my way of saying it is that i think the viewer should have the option okay here is this is an interesting one if you guys could host a podcast about anything but hockey what would it be about? Boy, that's a great question.

My wife is a big Unsolved Mysteries person. I could do that. Really? Like true crime, Unsolved Mysteries? I don't know if it would be true crime. It would be phenomenon. So aliens. Maybe something like that.

Unexplained phenomenon, maybe. Theuda triangle with elliot friedman you know some of that stuff really interests me i'll tell you this too of course it does the other podcast that i would love to do is i would love to do oral histories of how certain tv shows and movies and maybe even books get written. So that's sort of along the same lines philosophically as this podcast, which is essentially how does this work? I think we've mentioned this a couple of different times. This podcast is essentially me every week, a couple of times asking you a variation on the question, how does this work?

So I like that. I like that. But the thing is, if you listen to James Andrew Miller, he does the Origins podcast, right? Yep. And he did a five-episode deep dive into Curb Your Enthusiasm, which was fantastic.

And he also did a deep dive into Sex and the city. Now I was never crazy about that show. My wife loved that show, but the podcast was fantastic, especially when they kind of got into talking about Kim control and her relationship with Sarah Jessica Parker. And it was really intense and I thought it was fascinating.

And there's probably people looking at whatever device they listen to this podcast on right now, like, Elliot, what the hell are you talking about? But that Origins podcast, which did Curb Your Enthusiasm and Sex and the City, that's the kind of thing that I would love to hear podcasts about like on a similar vein about either Black Adder. Yeah. Maybe my favorite TV show of all time. Fawlty Towers or Mighty Boosh. Mighty Boosh may be my favorite of all. There are any of our listeners who have been tuned into any deep dive podcast about either of those three shows, please send them along to this guy guy so you've done a lot of different things though like what would be the answer for you i know you're big into dan carlin and i know you're

big into wrestling yeah but think i approach it all the same way like i'm with you like in anything that i do i have the exact same approach which is how does this work like lift up the hood you know uh let's see let's see how this engine works let Let's tear this thing down. Let's get it down to the nuts and the bolts. Like that's how I approached pro wrestling. That's how I approach hockey. That's how I would approach anything, which is why your unsolved mysteries idea to me is really intriguing. And I sort of tried to nudge you over to aliens because, you know, who wouldn't be interested in that? I sort of go in waves.

Like for the past few years, I've really been interested in anything revolving around World War I and mainly what led up to World War I. Right now I'm reading Guns of August. That's great. King Kaiser Czar, I read a couple of years ago. Mike Agelo, who we all know, well, Toronto radio listeners would know as Mike from Buffalo. Yeah. A great writer and podcaster himself. He's a history major. And so he's always tuning, he's always sending me stuff. Mike's fantastic.

Great hockey fan. Every time I'm in Buffalo, I make sure I get out to dinner with Mike. Wonderful guy and big World War I buff. Mike, make sure that Jeff picks up a tab for once. No, no, no, no no the bill comes and i go down and tie my shoes those would be my answers sir okay back to hockey kevin coyle this is a good one what's the best trio or group of players along with the best nicknames of all time i.e russian five triple crown line production line or punch line the best nicknames of all time, i.e. Russian Five, Triple Crown Line, Production Line,

or Punch Line. Maybe we'll just narrow that down to what's your favorite name for a line? Oh, and by the way, you don't have always wondered, Frege, we always give forwards lines. Why don't D pairs ever have nicknames? Well, you know what they used to call i remember when ian white signed with detroit do you know what the red wings called him what the second best player on the red wings and i said why and they go because we always joke that lindstrom's partner is the second best red wing oh that's good okay so i like stuff like stuff like that. Actually, I remember I told, I remember Ian White was represented by, I think it was Pat

Morris. And I told Pat Morris that, and I, and he laughed his head off. He thought that was very funny. That's really good. I like that. Do you, do you have a favorite line name? I always, I grew up in, I was a kid of the seventies in Toronto. So I love the Buffalo, mentioned the Buffalo Sabres, the French connection.

French connection, of course. French, that was one Connection, of course. French Connection. That was one that I grew up loving. I'm trying to remember, like what would be my favorite line? I could see you being a big triple crown line. Well, I did. Is that because I love the King's old gold uniforms. And I remember a feature they did

where the Kings released an album, right? I don't even know if it was a real album, but. Was that Hockey Sock Rock? They did a video. Oh, no. Forgive My Misconduct. Yeah. Please Forgive My Misconduct last night.

You're cold as ice. You gotta believe me. I was out of control. I'll never break the rules again because you're my only goal. Forgive my misconduct. Forgive me my misconduct. Please forgive my misconduct. Forgive me my misconduct. Please forgive my misconduct.

So I love them. The best nickname I remember as a kid for a line wasn't hockey. It was football. It was the Vikings. I love the nickname for their defense, the Purple People Eaters. That is good. So that was always my favorite and here is a very practical question one for our history buffs in the audience from matthew carroll

who was the first player to raise his stick in the air as a celebration for scoring a goal now i was told years ago i remember I asked this question once. There wasn't one specific person that anyone from the Society for International Hockey Research can pinpoint, but you'll like this one, Frege. Raising your stick in the air after a goal was actually something that was encouraged by Frank Patrick. We think of the Patrick brothers and how much they changed hockey frank lester like everything from changing on the fly uh numbers on the back forward pass in all three zones all of it that's all the patricks and frank patrick when he ran the rangers used to have all of his players raise their stick after they scored just to indicate to the fans at the arena that a goal had been scored

and he was the player that did it because this is before like there's no highlights in the arena at that point that's a way for that player to indicate to the fans that i was the player that scored the goal and that's where i think the tradition stemmed from someone told me it was billy ray once the habs billy ray yeah is a player that he did it did he ever play for the rangers billy ray stemmed from? Someone told me it was Billy Ray once. The Habs Billy Ray? Yeah, is a player that he did it. Did he ever play for the Rangers, Billy Ray? I'll check. Would that have been Frank Patrick time?

No, never played for the Rangers. One quick last Ask 31. Tyler Taminia on the other side. Ryan Bailey, could the pandemic cause a quick two-team expansion to line owners' pockets? I wondered about that too. I got to tell you, that's pretty cynical there, bud. But not exactly impractical.

I have wondered if we're ever going to see a second team in Toronto, I wonder if it's going to come out of this. No. Okay, well. You know what turned me around on that one? What? A conversation with Brian Burke. He said the Toronto Maple Leafs, to come out of this. Nope. Okay, well. You know what turned me around on that one? What? A conversation with Brian Burke.

He said the Toronto Maple Leafs, when he was there, were writing revenue sharing checks for like $25 million every year. And Burke, he said, I think this is on the air too, so I'm not telling tales out of school here. Burke, he said, I would like to be in the room when the NHL tells Larry Tannenbaum that there's going to be a second team in Toronto.

I get that. After having written, writing revenue sharing checks for that many years. If it's ever going to happen, it's going to happen out of this. That's all. That's all I'm saying. Okay. On that, we'll hit a break and we'll come back tyler tominia the interim commissioner of the nwhl uh will talk to us about an announcement they've made today and also could they work with the pwhpa the answer

is next on 31 thoughts the podcast Please be joined by Tyler Taminia. She's the interim commissioner of the NWHL. And before we get, Ty, into anything about you and your background and the idea of maverick owners in sports. The NWHL making an announcement this morning. What is it? I've been waiting, itching for this to come out. So I'm thrilled that we're announcing this on International Women's Day of all days. That the NWHL is coming back to finish what we started.

We're raising the Isabel Championship Cup March 26th and 27th in Warrior Arena and thrilled that NBCSN is giving us primetime spots for the Friday semis and then our final. And I mean, what this means is, you know, essentially our athletes are given the chance again to make history and to finish what they started. And so, yeah, today's a wonderful day. Was there a time, Ty, where you thought this wouldn't happen?

No. And mostly because I don't take no for an answer very well. Truth be told, I was pretty transparent coming out of Lake Placid when I said, when I ended my press conference by saying, you know, it's considered a suspension. While I was packing up the rink, wheels were already turning on how we can finish this. And, you know, not dissimilar to what goes on at the NHL, right? Like the pandemic doesn't discriminate and it affected us. And we didn't want it to shut us down two years in a row we didn't raise the cup last year so we have to get it raised this year we're pro league that's what

we have to do so i'm just thrilled that um all of our partners um involved you know this is a lot of conversation guys right um and and it takes a lot of different people to make this happen this is And it takes a lot of different people to make this happen. This is not an easy task to pull off. And between the Board of Governors, the leagues, the teams, the athletes, the partners, it's just a beautiful little culmination of us making this happen. There was something you said there that's very interesting to me because every commissioner I've heard has said some variation of it in the last year. And that is that we have to award our championship. I've heard Gary Bettman say it. I've heard Adam Silver say it.

I've heard Roger Goodell say it. I've heard Rob Manfred from Major League Baseball say it. I'm just curious. I've heard Rob Manfred from Major League Baseball say it. I'm just curious. It's interesting to hear you use the exact same verbiage. Why is it so important? Well, I think it's important for the integrity of the sport, right?

Like it's for the history of our sport. It's for like, you know, stats and analytics. It's for the culmination of, you know, everything that it provides when you look back. Again, it's for the integrity of being a pro team, like a pro sport. And so I think it's important not to have too many asterisks, you know, some asterisks are good, some are bad, but you know, to have back to back, I don't think that does much. So that's why we, I just felt really passionate that we kind of raised this cup because you need a champion. You need this look back on a league, you know, us going into season seven, you know, this year. You have to culminate that season six.

It's important for our athletes to have that opportunity to celebrate. And again, for the history of it all, it means something. The cup means something. And again, for the history of it all, it means something. The Cup means something. Ty, now that you've had a little bit of time, and maybe there'll be an even expanded awareness when you have more time to look back on it, what are your thoughts now on what happened at Lake Placid? You know, we went into Lake Placid with a pretty strong plan. It was approved by the state of New York.

You know, we went in there under the idea that it was a restrictive access environment. I mean, truth be told, bubbles are not bubbles. In hindsight, it wasn't the protocols, I think. When we kind of calibrate and look into what went right, what went wrong, a lot of it was mostly on enforcement. And, you know, that takes my efforts on the league side, also takes team leadership, player accountability. And so I think, and I'll take the fault for that as well. Like,

you know, I think when we learned a lot is that we really have to, you know, take some different levels going into warrior about how we're enforcing our protocols. And I also will give, you know, look, we lost it,

right? Like our athletes lost that taste in their mouth. So when you lose give, you know, look, we lost it, right? Like our athletes lost that taste in their mouth. So when you lose it, you know, I have no doubt that this league is going to come back for those two games and make sure that we're making history. So it's an awful feeling to lose that chance. It's a wonderful feeling to have almost like a little bit of a redemption story and try to get this going again. And our athletes have been quite resilient, you know, and eager to get the cup race as well. The commissioner I deal with the most obviously is Gary Bettman. And I'll ask him this at some point, but I really believe that the COVID has

been the greatest challenge of his career. He's been the NHL's commissioner now for almost 30 years. And I don't think that he's ever faced anything like this. This is the greatest challenge. Now, you've been commissioner of the NWHL since October, but you've had a lot of experience as an executive in different sports. Would it be fair to say that this is similar with you, the greatest challenge that you faced in your, I guess, professional management career? Oh my God, without a doubt. I mean, look, nobody went to school and had to deal with a pandemic, right? And this is the first time it's hitting everyone on these leadership roles.

So it's so uncontrollable. There's so many different aspects of this. I mean, I hate the fact that I know so much knowledge about COVID. But yeah, it adds a whole different level, a whole different dimension of leadership that's quite foreign, I would say, to everyone. This is really, you know, in my lifetime, that's the first time I've had to deal with something like this while, you know, it was intertwined with our work environment. From a communication standpoint, from learning very

quickly about, you know, CDC requirements and medical requirements and what it does on individual athletes, what it does in travel, what it does, a whole different aspect that you have to learn real quick. But yeah, it's a massive leadership challenge. Nothing can prepare you for that. Like what Elliot says and what you're talking about here, Ty, nothing can prepare you for going into that situation as a leader. But there are things you have in your personality, I'm sure that you can lean on lessons from your past and you've been as Elliot mentions an executive in a couple of different sports here what part of your personality Ty or maybe what in your experience do you think helped you through all of this and when I say that I know we're still going through it. Like what part of you do you lean on essentially during something like this? I mean, I think the personality is

such a great point. The personality in leadership roles is so imperative, right? You know, Jeff, Elliot, like my background, I come from an environment in minor league baseball, our motto was fun is good. Our personalities were quite provocative at times. I beg to say that COVID has probably put my provocative ideas a little bit in check. I'm sure when we come out of the pandemic, we'll be able to explore some more creative avenues with this sport in particular. But the personality means everything. It means a lot when you're trying to build trust. It means a lot when you're trying to build trust. It means a lot when you're trying to lead troops. And it also means a lot when you're in a highly stressful

environment. Everyone has got a lot of high anxiety. This pandemic does nothing for anybody's mental health. And so the element that I've tried to infuse at my personality is you know we want to have a little bit of fun in this to try to just do something with it in order to ease everybody's anxiety so your vibe attracts your tribe like i always tell everybody internally like you know if you can come off where you're you know trying to to calm the staff and some athletes in a very high stress environment, personality has a big effect. One of the things that I thought was interesting was the PWHPA did their Dream Gap Tour. They were in Madison Square Garden. They were in Chicago.

And the NWHL sent out a tweet supporting it. And the relationship between these two groups has not always been comfortable to say the least. Right. I was curious about that. The fact that the NWHL came out in support of it, I wondered what it meant. What does it mean? I'll tell you what it meant because it actually came from me.

It meant that there is a lot of history there that is uncomfortable. Now, I know I'm only like, what, five months into this, so I'm coming in somewhat Switzerland, right? I'm from a different sport altogether. However, listening over the last couple months to everybody's feedback on what went right, what went wrong over the last couple of years, you know, my leadership style, I think I've been very open about this. And anybody that knows me in baseball knows the same thing is, you know, there's really no, there's no magic that comes with like dissension or any of this contentious stuff,

like especially in this game, this women's sport. You know, to me, it was saying I value and I see you and I applaud what you guys are doing for the women's game, for women's hockey in particular. And that's my leadership style. And I know the league and the board of governors, as we take this going forward, you know, the magic happens when people come to a table and we talk out our differences. The polarizing effect of what could happen when discussions or relationships go badly does a disservice, I think, to the sport.

And I don't know if anybody really wins out of that. I mean, it's been a couple of years now. I don't necessarily know if anybody really wins out of that. I mean, it's been a couple of years now. I don't necessarily know if anybody's winning out of that. So, you know, to me, that was just saying, hey, look, like, this is wonderful. How could you not say that's wonderful? How could you not have women athletes on ice and applaud that? Like, I shouldn't be commissioner of a women's hockey league if I didn't applaud that. You know, our athletes are tremendous. Those athletes are tremendous.

But look at that. I mean, it's great. And, you know, like when we're trying to really kind of have these open communications with one another and see how we can work together for the betterment of the sport, why wouldn't I say that? That's interesting, Ty, because a couple of weeks ago, I spoke with someone from the PWHPA.

And as part of the conversation, I just asked casually, could you work with the NWHL? And this person said, absolutely. Yeah. And this is after everything that I got. So I'm guessing you feel the same way about the PWHPA, not to put words in your mouth, but it sounds very much like you agree. I took this job, guys, because I want to advance this sport to a point where there's a lot

of respect and eyeballs and viewership, which is also going to help that business model that everybody talks about. That's what it's about. It's another avenue of sports entertainment that has room to grow. Talk about grassroots, getting all these little boys and girls involved. You're better together than creating a divide. I'm not about that. Jeff just mentioned one player there. Do you think in general, all the players and all the people who've been involved in both leagues feel the same way? Or do you still think it's a big mountain to climb? It's a mountain. I'm not dismissing the fact that there's some raw emotions around it.

What I'm saying is that some of the narrative is actually outdated now. So it's been a couple of years. So, you know, let's sit at the table and have a true sense of what is actually going on here and how we can get to where everybody wants to get to. We all want to get to the same spot. So how can we get together? But yeah, I mean, I think that there needs to be some therapeutic conversation. And I'm open to that, of course. Now, again, I don't have much history there, but I'm open to having those conversations of what had happened. But mostly, what can we do going forward?

What do you think the future of women's hockey is? Will there be a WNHL, for lack of a better term? Do you see the NHL running a women's hockey league where the players of the NWHL and the players of the Professional Women's Hockey Association mix together to form, I don't know how many teams it is, to start and eventually grow? Yeah, I mean, I wish I had a crystal ball, right? Like I could just kind of project the future on that. I think it's kind of unfair on the NHL's part for me to say, hey, they should take it on themselves and, you know, help this

all out. Meaning like, we're in the middle of a pandemic, everyone's hurting, right? Like financially, I think it's probably the wrong time for, you know, that kind of a demand. I think what should happen is that, you know, you take a business model independent of that. Of course, you know, we have support with the NHL and different aspects, but for them to take on the entire business model, I don't know. I think that would be a little bit unfair at this time to ask them to do that. I mean, let's just talk business business, right guys? Like that's a little bit tough to ask at this point. Now in a couple of years, that might be a little bit different. So right now what I think it should look like is

like you get a, you know, a business model that's strong in a league that goes past a couple of years, like in combination maybe with other parties involved and kind of go in the direction where it's sustainable on its own. And if at the time there's market share, there's viewership, there's this tribal fandom in these markets and the markets are actually showing that there's growth and it's sustainable and it's fueling and funding revenue streams that are consistent, then I think at that time, I wouldn't be surprised if that's something that they take on. Is sponsorship greater than it's been? There's certainly a movement right now to fund some sports and just general things in North America that have been underfunded in the past. So I'm curious,

is it stronger? It's been strong. I i gotta tell you like phil coming out of lake placid right i mean we've had our largest sponsorship deal to date um our viewership was up 140 percent um on twitch our followers were up 304 percent um and then i've got sponsors now you know where i think in years past from what i've heard on the women's game, it's a lot of proactive phone calling for here in the last five months, especially when you give them an event or you give them a championship, or you pose it like, hey, I got a national network and we're coming in and we're playing. You're in a little bit of a different seat these days. It's a little bit reactionary. You got a couple of narratives coming into next year, guys. You got the 50th anniversary of Title IX. So, you know, like I could tell you right now,

my conversations that I'm having, there's the insatiable appetite for women's anything next year is unbelievable. You know, there's a lot riding into this momentum. And so I'm optimistic. Let's go into the root. The deep dive? The deep dive. The deep dive into Ty. Okay. Let's talk about you a little bit here, Ty. Oh, God. How much do you enjoy, because I know you a little bit, Ty, how much do you enjoy when

you're at a meeting and someone says, well, where's Tyler? When is he going to show up? It happened to me today. Oh, really? It happened to me today. Listen to this, guys. I get off my flight and I'm waiting. By the way, I'm coming back from spring training and I have my two little girls in tow. I look like a hot mess, right? I'm sitting there with like five things of luggage. I'm like, oh gosh, the person. Okay, great. He's here.

He's picking us up. I said, who are you waiting on? And he was like, oh yeah, not you. And I was like, oh, okay. But who are you waiting on? And he was like, somebody named Tyler. I'm like, oh, that's me. And he was like, no, no, no.

I'm waiting for a guy named Tyler. I was like, no, for real, it's me. And then I had to prove to him where I was going he didn't believe me but yeah there's so much that I love about that Elliot and Jeff that is just because it always it doesn't it never gets old I'm in my I'm old you're younger than me I caught myself on that one. But it never gets old. It's even like here, like when I'm emailing stuff, it's Commissioner of this League. And then I get on a Zoom call and they're like, oh, wow.

Okay, you're not a guy. So it helps and then it also provides some humor. But yeah, I blame my parents. Tell us a little bit about your parents as well because you come by uh you mentioned you know uh owning a minor league baseball team you come by that naturally yeah so I grew up in a baseball household my father just retired last year from the Chicago White Sox which is always a little bit weird growing up in New York right like I'm also a Yankee fan I'm sorry but. But so, you know, yeah, I grew up in

the sport. And I ended up working in the sport. And then I freaking married it. So I'm boring. But yeah, baseball has always been in my family around. And, you know, I love the sport. I love everything about it. And I know, Jeff, you know, you know, you love the sport as well. And, and so, yeah, I just, I had to find a way in order to be a part of it. It felt like home for me. I was in, you know, financial services and high tech before that. And it just didn't feel like home to me. So even though I grew up in the sport, I had a, I had a hustle pretty hard in order to get into it. And so when I finally did, I knew ownership was going to be in my way of making an impact. So yeah, that's the short of it. The short of almost 20 years.

I actually heard that someone told me that your dad actually didn't want you to make that career change. No, he didn't. He didn't talk to me for four months. That I didn't know. So that's impressive. Yeah, for four months. That I didn't know. So that's impressive. Yeah, for four months. There was two times my father was like really kind of, you know why? Because the sport's tough.

And the sport's tough, like sports in general stuff. But, you know, that's my dad. And I'm his little girl. So, like, you know, but he also knew, like, I'm pretty tough. And, you know, I got some thick skin. But it's kind of, you know, it's, he also knew like, I'm pretty tough and, you know, I got some thick skin, but it's kind of, you know, it's a little bit hard to, so he was more in the scouting and player development side. And, and, um, I more in obviously the business side, but I did go through major league baseball scout school and it was one to 62 people in the class or,

oh, I'm sorry. There's two of us, two females in a 62-person class. And so the other time that he claimed that he was not going to talk to me was if I failed scout school, but I didn't, so we're all good. I'm curious about that. What is scout school? What is that? Yeah. Major League Baseball has a scout school, and you have to get appointed or recommended either by an owner of a major league club or GM of a club to go through the program with the intent that, you know, after the program you pass pretty much teaches us all about, you know, reporting what they look for, how to grade.

reporting, what they look for, how to grade. And it's nonstop, to be honest with you. It's from the time you wake up, you're covering like six, seven games a day. And then you're getting back at 11 o'clock at night. And you're all sitting in a room and you're entering your reports. And they kind of have other pro scouts there to kind of evaluate your grading or your report style. And then afterwards, it gets sent to all uh may delhi baseball clubs and that's how they end up you know hiring a lot of their scouts based on the students that come out of the program which are all varying different types of students like so for example like i went my in

my class there was like jack jones like so he was a player you know what i mean so like it can go from i'm done playing now and i want to make a you know what I mean? So like, it can go from I'm done playing now and I want to make a, you know, more of a front office switch. So it varies in age. I am curious along the way, Ty, you've, I've described you like this in a couple of different places. You seem to have like a real maverick spirit about what you do. And I can recall after you and I spoke when I, when I first met you, we had our first conversation. I went back and I picked up a book

that I hadn't picked up in a while. But I remember hanging up and the book Breaking the Game Wide Open by Gary Davidson popped into my mind. So I went and picked it up again and thumbed through it. And just so our listeners understand, Gary Davidson was a gentleman in the 70s

who helped start the ABA, the WHA, the World Football League as well. Essentially, these are maverick leagues, you know, against the establishment, doing something different, showing a different way in sports. Where do you get that from, Ty? Where does that come from in you? Where does that come from in you? I don't know. My parents keep asking me that all the time since I was born. I don't know. I'd like to say I've always been very curious of looking at things just differently or flip it around or, you know, not that I have, you know, a problem with authority per se. I mean, I, you know, my kid always says like, mom, you treat traffic stops like, or suggestions, but like. We have something in common.

Right. Like, she's like, it's like you, you treat traffic laws like it's suggestions. Then I'm just like, okay, well, I've always had that. I think, you know, my parents and my sister in particular, like, I just kind of had it in my blood to always just say, like, let's just see how it would look this way. Like, let's just put that purple ice in the middle of that neutral zone. And let's just see how it looks. Like, why not? Like, I've always had this, well, why not? Why can't we do this? Like, who's telling us that we can't do this? Like, think about that. Or let's just flip it around and see what it looks like in a different way, in a different light.

And I think it's the hunger for change, because I don't do very well with mundane and normal. Like, my life is just like, always got to be going, going, going. And I need change, change, change, because that's what drives me to figure out my appetite, my grit, my love for, for my work and for personal and all of that comes together. I think if I just have momentum going into, you know, being different and, you know, trying to see how we can progress and grow. So I'm curious, you know, you ran a lot of minor league baseball teams. You joined an organization that did that. How do you compare running a minor league baseball team to running the NWHL?

What are the similarities? What are the differences? And what's changed maybe in 10 to 15 years? What's different is minor league baseball, minor league baseball, you know, it's like multi-million dollars, you know, so the scale is much different than, for example, here, you know, this is definitely, you know, a smaller league, smaller operating cost, smaller everything, compared to the six teams that I had in those six different states. The sports entertainment model to me could be quite similar though.

You know, people coming and developing and growing that model that it's not just for the women's hockey niche or like that whole, you know, that demographic. It's, you know, I'm a true believer, like minor league baseball really grew to become a money-making profitable machine because it found out that, oh, okay, if you entertain beyond that minor league baseball fan that's coming, the family entertainment dollar is huge. Our philosophy there with the Goldkling group is, we did things that made people laugh when they came we had a nun in our right field in St. Paul Saints giving out haircuts and massages Bud Seelig was the

commissioner at the time our mascot was a pig we called them Bud Squealig you know we just did some really awesome stuff to make people laugh like one of our all-star games one year ended in a tie we like gave everybody these ties and literally i mean we just we did a vasectomy night we gave out a funeral like we asked nobody to come that night we called it nobody night we locked them all out of the ballpark um there's just a lot of great things i mean i got it you know i got a chance to work with mike beck and and the actor bill murray i mean you, those are all things that we tried to do. And I think that stuff can be done here.

I know the sport, Jeff and I, you know, you and I talk, it's quite conservative. Yeah. But, you know, I think if you just do it, you know, slowly but surely, there's some, you know, ways that we can go in here and make a good impact, especially in the women's game, because you could do it there. Like why I love it so much is like, I don't have to play by the rules necessarily. We have the purists, I get it. We also have the baseball purists. But we also have another demographic that is going to be there. And like, you know, we could test to some stuff. And I think that is what people can, you know, look for., for example, in our league or what we did in our minor league operations. People knew that they were going to have a unique factor there, something to make them laugh. I love that spirit.

I do have to go back to something you just said. What is vasectomy night? I mean, they're giveaways, baby. We had giveaways all the time. You can enter in, and we had a sponsor that was giving away a vasectomy. So yeah, I mean, it was wild. It's been great. And now it's just, it's so turnkey. Like there's so much beautifulness and creativity that comes out of, I mean, you look at some of this stuff, even going on social platforms, the creativity is off the charts nowadays.

Yeah. So it's inspiring. It's 18 years now that you've been into sports after leaving your internship. How much has changed for a female? If you were to speak to a young woman now that is coming out of school or is even in high school and wants to volunteer somewhere to get their foot in the door or start an internship program to get their foot in the door.

What would you say to them about what's different now as opposed to how you started? What's better? What's worse? What the path is like? What sort of advice would you give them? I think it's actually gotten a heck of a lot better. What sort of advice would you give them? I think it's actually gotten a heck of a lot better.

Women coming into the sport or at a college right now that are looking for jobs, I think what you get is true role models now. I didn't have that. You have Kim Ang now being a GM. You've got a lot of women being named in male-dominated roles now. I think it's so beautiful. It's real. And it's becoming even more so. And I feel like in the next couple of years, you'll even see the roles open up a little bit more towards females. So the examples I feel are out there and inspiring. I still think for most people in sports, so let me just generalize by saying,

getting into sports generally, it's so competitive, and it's so cutthroat, and it's so hard. It's a 24-7 mental game. So I think in general, it's very still very still much hard to get into a sport. But what I do think is that the openness and perceptions of what women can do, if given a chance, has definitely grown in the last 18 years. Tyler, your husband is Ben Sherrington, who's the GM of the Pittsburgh Pirates. How much do you guys talk about your sports jobs and what's the same about them. And maybe he asked you for advice on something he's facing and you say, well, I dealt with this or vice versa. How much of that conversation is there between the two of you? Yeah, I think it's so wonderful, our relationship. I know it might be nauseating to

some, but what I think is just so beautiful is that we both can call each other up and say, you know, Hey, let's get some feedback on this. Or I could be coming in hot on something. And he would just be like, let me give you perspective, right? The greatest thing about both roles right now is that he's in a position where he's got to do a lot of growth

and be truthful about it. And I'm in the same exact position. I'm in the position where I need to make change I need to make it fast we have to have like after you calibrate all that you know information of external and internal factors you really have to sit and say okay like we know where we have to change we know where we have to grow we know we have to take this and be truthful about the fact that we have to grow and we're in the same boat like he's literally you know sitting there and he's trying to make some changes and do it rather quickly and um not dissimilar to myself he's got a

bigger budget than i do believe it or not i know but um but yeah we have some fun the most heated interaction between him and i actually comes down to traits traits like when he's about to give up a player or you know he's about to go and him and I get into some brutal arguments and but fun you know just based on evaluation everybody's evaluation is different right so but they end up being fun so yeah it's great it's great to have a partner like that. Which trade did you not want him to make? Oh, I got a couple, but he would kill me. Oh God.

All right. We'll let you off the hook. Let me off on that one. This is a, this has been a lot of fun. Welcome back from spring training. Congratulations on the announcement. We wish you all the luck. All right. Thank you both for your attention. I appreciate it and support. That is Tyler Timinia, the interim commissioner of the NWHL. We thank her for stopping by and thank Paul Kratz from the NWHL for making Tyler available.

I just want to say, Jeff, I thought that was pretty newsy about the relationship between the NWHL and the Professional Women's Hockey Players Association. It's been frosty, even to say it politely. And the fact that she's willing to extend the olive branch because you know that not everybody will agree on both sides. Correct. So sometimes the hardest move is the first one. And she's showing leadership by being the first one. Now we'll see how many follow the lead. the family and the friends of Walter Gretzky.

And man, I'll tell you, I've been in that situation before. I remember speaking graveside when my father passed away, and I remember holding it together right till the very end. So watching Wayne eulogize his father on Saturday, just from a personal note, really hit me, Elliot. And I thought Wayne did just a tremendous job in Brantford over the weekend. You know, it was a long time. It came out that they were there for a significant amount of time because Walter Gretzky was a very strong man, fought hard until the end. And, you know, I don't think that was easy on

anyone there. And I thought the speech was fantastic. Absolutely. And the stick taps outside the church was a wonderful touch. Also someone, Elliot, that you and I grew up listening to on, on Chum radio, newsman Dick Smythe passed away over the weekend uh was a big fan of him on

radio his uh city tv commentaries as well do you have a thought on dick smythe who will whether it's a 10 50 chum or back at uh cklw the big eight you know in windsor yeah right like it was cftr back then right right? It was, absolutely. The one thing I remember, and obviously the big voice, and I'm going to leave this more to you because you wanted to bring this up and you're passionate about it. But the thing I remembered about Dick Smythe was he had a prize when he first got to CFTR. The first time he said the call letters wrong because he said,

I know I'm going to do it. i know i'm gonna do it i know i'm gonna call this my old station the person who wins i think it was 680 at the time still so i think it was 680 dollars for the person who called in and said you got it wrong and i think it took a year wow as a matter a matter of fact, the story I remember was everybody kind of forgot about it because he didn't make a mistake. And then about a year in, he made a mistake and a woman called and said, did I win the contest?

And he said, what contest? Well, you got the call letters wrong. Oh, wow. And apparently he was like struck dumb, like, oh my goodness, like they'd totally forgotten it. So that very alert person once, I think it was like $680 because she something up that many would probably mess up on their first couple of shifts. I know I would. So quick backstory to me. So I was adopted.

I've found my birth family, the Lachlans, and there's two sides of that family. There's the Lachlans and the Rankins. I'm a Lachlan. My birth name originally, and I still have the birth certificate, Elliot, is Keegan Sean Lachlan. My birth name originally, and I still have the birth certificate, Elliot, is Keegan Sean Lachlan. And on the Rankin side, Kathleen Rankin, who's now teaching at Loyalist in Belleville, is my cousin. And I worked with Kathleen before I found out who my mom was and that we were related. Kathleen and I had been friends for years and always respected her. And I would always talk to Kathleen about working in Dick Smythe's newsroom. And Dick was the king of radio news in Toronto, as you know,

geez, forever. I mean, we both grew up listening to Dick Smythe. And I would have countless questions about working in that newsroom for Kathleen. And there was one story that always stuck with me about Dick Smythe. Kathleen would tell me he didn't want his newsreaders just to read the news. This was rip and read time in the industry. You just ripped it off and you just read it, you turn the microphone off and that was your shift. He wanted his newsreaders to know the news and bring their passion to it, bring an expression to the news, and how they felt about the news could come through in their script. That's what he believed. And you saw that with Smythe's scripts. The wife of a man dying of cancer asks me,

where's all the money gone? The millions and millions of dollars that Terry Fox and Steve Fano have raised. This viewer is not suggesting dishonesty, nor am I. The frustration, the anger, the bitterness are understandable. It means little that giant strides have been made in cancer, that people are living longer, that some aren't dying at all. Her husband is dying quickly and yet not rapidly enough. We're throwing money at the problem, but it's being scattered rather than concentrated. All of our successes in cancer research are small ones. Most of them are in the United States. The disease remains the second major cause of death, less common than heart disease, but more ghastly. Even though we

have united against cancer as we have united against nothing else, we are fragmenting our resources. Research is isolated. It's dogged by politics, plagued by jealousies, dissipated by duplication. Everything that's being done in Canada and in the United States should be brought under one roof in a massive research facility on the border. The money, the manpower, the resources,

the dedicated scientists, the buildings and the books and the labs and the volunteers should all be focused into one spot. If we did that, if we concentrated our efforts, we'd have the answer in 10 years. Like you could tell how he felt about a story by how he read it. And he wanted all of his newsreaders to become intimately involved with the story and not just read it. And Kathleen said,

Dick would walk around the newsroom with a pipe in those days and he'd light a match and he'd smoke his pipe and walk around the newsroom. And so Kathleen said, the first time it happened, she was a little bit startled, but it taught her a big lesson. What he would do to new people in his newsroom is he'd come around before they went on the air and he'd sort of say like, you know, can I see your newscast? And they'd hand Dick the piece of paper that the cast was on. And Dick would always say, well, how well do you know this? And they would usually say like, yeah, I know this. I know this well. Like, I know this pretty well. I'm prepared for my newscast. And Dick would say, okay.

like I know this pretty well, I'm prepared for my newscast. And Dick would say, okay. And so come time at 20 after the hour, quarter after or top of the hour, whenever it was, and they would start the newscast. They'd be holding the piece of paper up in front of them and Dick would light a match and light the paper on fire as they read their newscast, as the paper disintegrated in front of them.

And they would usually have to speed up because they were just reading words. And then their hit would be over and they would turn their microphone off and Dick would say, how well do you feel you knew the news that you were reading? That was the kind of newsman that Dick Smythe was.

And this industry has lost a giant. Condolences to the family and friends of the great Dick Smythe.