32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Torts's Tantrum Fallout & the Golden LTIR

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

In this edition of 32 Thoughts, Jeff and Elliotte begin by revisiting John Tortorella's outburst on the bench while refusing to leave after an ejection. While it may have looked entertaining on the surface, the league took the matter very seriously. Then, the guys delve into the Pittsburgh Penguins going backwards for the first time in Sidney Crosby's career and the aftermath of the Jake Guentzel trade (15:21). Elliotte provides an injury update for Canucks netminder Thatcher Demko (26:27) before the guys unpack the Golden Knights' use of LTIR, and the hockey world's reaction following the acquisition of Tomas Hertl (27:46). That topic bleeds into a discussion around "no-state-tax teams" and concern regarding competitive balance in the NHL (37:42). Jeff and Elliotte also discuss the San Jose Sharks, who have now committed to a full rebuild (41:34). The fellas then move onto a number of trade deadline topics, including: Linus Ullmark staying in Boston (43:40), the Evgeny Kuznetsov deal (47:29), the Byram for Mittelstadt trade (50:01), and the Winning Jets picking up Tyler Toffoli (57:17). Later in the pod the guys turn their attention to the Arizona Coyotes as their search for new land continues (1:05:00) and the crazy OT decision in the Wild-Predators game. (1:07:17).  The guys answer your questions in the Montana’s Thought Line (1:11:31).Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Montana's Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailThis podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

It's going to be like Lego. If this happens, insert everything here. If that happens, insert everything here. I love your analogies. They're terrible. Two games and $50,000 later, Elliot Friedman. Welcome to 32 Thoughts to the Podcast, presented as always by the GMC Sierra, Merrick Friedman, Dom Schramatti. And before we get to the Philadelphia Flyers and their head coach, you have a special shout out, I understand. Yes, so I want to congratulate

a certain podcast listener, a dedicated listener of the podcast. On Sunday was the California High School Division I State Championships. And Fairmont Academy won in double overtime. The winning goal was scored off a face-off that was won by Cole Biexa. No way. That's amazing.

Cole BXA with the face-off win. Did dad make it? He was telling me he was getting on the early, early flight to get there. Do we know if Kevin made it? Oh, great. Yes. Oh, that's awesome. That was the only bad thing about Kevin getting out there

is it meant no Saturday night post-trip to the bar because he had an early flight and he had to get going but great oh wow congratulations to Cole and his teammates at Fairmont Academy for overcoming undoubtedly questionable bench management to win that game in double overtime Cole with the face-off win that led to the winning goal, the championship winner. The resilience of those athletes in the face of such horrible training all season long, I really have to hand it to those young men.

Well done, Cole. Yes, congratulations to Fairmont Academy. Yes. Love to start with some good news. That's fantastic. Okay. Meanwhile, Saturday, Elliott, Philadelphia and Tampa, Elliott tilted rink Elliott and a lighter Philadelphia Flyers bench by the end of it and a lighter by way of what's in his pocket. John Tortorella, two game suspension, $50,000 fine for refusing to leave the bench when instructed by Wes McCauley. Your thoughts on this one?

So we were all laughing about this. Obviously, the Tampa players who were there being honored as part of the 03-04 team and Dave Andrichuk and Brad Richards being inducted into the Lightning Hall of Fame. If you saw the video, they were laughing at it. All of us on social media were laughing at it. they were laughing at it. All of us on social media were laughing at it. We were laughing at it. And at about just late in the first period of our late game,

which was Winnipeg, Vancouver, I got a call from someone who said, stop laughing, this is going to be a problem. And I said, you're kidding me. To be honest, if I was a referee in this situation, I'd just roll my eyes at it. But obviously it was taken very seriously, and Tortorella, who I think has been fined 12 times,

and I think suspended three times, got the two-game suspension. Now, I'm going to say right away, I think that's a stiff punishment, a really stiff punishment. I would have understood a one-game suspension, but two at a time where the Flyers are trying to make the playoffs, that's no joke. That's a big suspension. But, you know, the thing that stands out to me the most here

is that this is where I really think the NHL's refusal to allow referees to speak really hurts the referees, really hurts them. Look, someone said to me, if a player did that, refused to leave the playing field, they would be in deep doo-doo also, and coaches should be no different. That's fine. I can accept that rationale. But you remember when Jay Woodcroft got thrown out this year, I was like, what? Like, what for?

Why? And, you know, I had to do the digging and say, and find out that Kevin Pollock, who threw Woodcroft out of that game, had refereed or officiated 1,500 games and never thrown anyone out before. So you say, okay, it's not a referee who's a hothead. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. You know, in the last couple of weeks, there were a couple of coaches were fine. Don Granato was one, and Sheldon Keefe was another.

And Granato actually got fined on a play where Nick Cousins later got hit with a diving $2,000 penalty. So in some ways, it really justifies Granato's reaction. But this one in particular, again, if I was an official, I would want the opportunity to tell my side of the story. And the reason is, I think that plays like this, if you watch that game and you were familiar with what was happening, this is what I think occurred. And nobody has told me I'm wrong about this. I think there was a young referee who got a bit overwhelmed in the moment, which can happen. And Wes McCauley, who became the focal point of all of this, stepped in and said, I'm going to protect my teammates.

Brandon Schrader, we should say. Brandon Schrader is the referee's name. That was who was working. Okay. So in a lot of ways, I have respect for McCauley for this because he's trying to stand in for his teammate, which is what hockey and sports is supposed to be all about.

However, because nobody will say this, it just makes it look like the referees are thin-skinned and made a whole situation worse like i think if like the the referees are thin-skinned you can't criticize them they're not accountable and they made this situation worse if wes mccauley or schrader is allowed to come out and say look we had a situation here and we didn't want to let it escalate and it was getting too far out of control and Tortorella has to leave the playing field or the ice service quicker maybe not everybody would agree but I think everybody would say, at least we've got an answer

here. And at least the officials are accountable because a pool reporter, and that's what this would have been. That's the way the other sports do it would say, Hey, you know, what was your guy's fault in all of this? And, you know, they could simply say simply say look we understand the situation got out of control maybe there were some mistakes made here but you can't do that but we don't get any of that and i think situations like this they erode the like referees and officials they take a beating all the time that's the name of the game. And not all of it is deserved. But when you're doing this and you can't even hear from them and can't get an explanation, like I said, I think it erodes the confidence in the officials

even more. And again, if I was an official in the sport, I would want in a case like this to be able to say, this is why this was a problem. And I think if it was a one game suspension, I think maybe people actually, I'm not sure the Flyers fans would have been okay in any situation no no but maybe but maybe people would have said all right but two without an explanation i think that puts the i think that puts officiating in a bad spot and i'll say it for the third time because i really do believe it i don't think it's good for the officials when tortorella gets this serious a suspension at this time of year when his team is fighting for the playoffs and you could make a real case a real case that the whole thing was created by just an official had a bad night I mean it can happen to everybody we've all had bad nights but because they're not seen as accountable like tortorella is getting this suspension i don't think it's good for the officials i don't i i really don't i think

it erodes confidence in them do you think this is something that officials want like do they want to be available afterwards to comment on situations like this? Like, first of all, I would expect that someone like Wes McCauley would relish the opportunity to talk about it. I don't know how many other officials would. Maybe there's a lot. Maybe there's not. I'm not sure. I'm not sure where Stephen Walkam, the head of officiating in the NHL, is at on it either.

But do you think, think again this is just you know check the thermometer here what's the temperature with the officials do you think that they want that opportunity to explain themselves boy that i have to tell you is a great question because i get mixed answers same i get really mixed answers like you're friendly with a bunch of officials i'm friendly with a bunch of officials and they're hilarious people like some of them are really funny and they've got good stories to tell and i think in front of a microphone in a moment like that i think they'd be excellent uh i really do um but i think there are others who would prefer not to do it and i think overall it's pretty clear by this point the league doesn't want them to do it

so i think it almost becomes a crutch in the sense that oh the league doesn't want us to do it so there's not much you know we can say but i i'll say this i i think there are some officials who i who would be really good at it they're confident people they've got good senses of humor and and again i think it would go a long way it's like what's your line when you make a mistake what's your line when you mess up fess dress up. To me, that's 75% of the battle. 75% of the battle. Because people can say, ah, I get it. It happens. Everybody has a bad day. But when you create the impression that you're not accountable, it makes situations like this worse. And Tortorella's a polarizing guy.

There's no question about that. But because this happened in a situation where a couple calls went sideways, it makes him look like the victim in this case. And I don't think that's what the NHL or the officials want. Okay. A quick lighter note on this one, Elliot. Yeah. You know what I was really thinking?

Because I'm like, I'm watching this and I'm howling. I thought it was hilarious. I am laughing so hard. Like, I can't believe it. And I'm listening to Randolph and engblom and they're trying to figure out what's going on and oh my and dave randorf says like he's not leaving and then i just like burst out like i'm i'm laughing i'm laughing and finally he relents and he leaves you tell me whether there wasn't a tiny part of you that thought he's coming back out like Bobby Valentine.

I actually wondered about that, like in a mask, in the Groucho Marx mask or something like that. Anything like that. The glasses, the fake mustache like Bobby Valentine. A trench coat, a trench coat. Because it was just so hilarious. I'm like, okay, how much stupider can we make this right now oh bobby valentine he's got to go full bobby valentine please a couple other things you want you watch first of all the flyers are going to lean into this they are going to lean into this first of all you've got daniel hilferty saying he's going to pay for the fine. Yep.

Which somebody joked with me saying that probably got Tortorella an extra game. But the Flyers are going to lean into this with the us against the world mentality. Everyone's against us. They are going to lean right into this. You know, I'll say this too someone said to me the guy that he's rooting for the most in all this is brad shaw who will become the head coach for the two games that tortorella misses brad shaw is one of the best coaches in the nhl um you ask those Flyers defensemen this year, guys like Travis Sanheim, about what a huge, huge help he's been this year.

And they said to me that he hopes the Flyers go 2-0 because he really thinks that Bradshaw deserves a coaching opportunity as a head in the National Hockey League. So I just wanted to throw that out there. Do you remember what the Philadelphia Flyers did last year towards the end of the season? Then they just bring up Bradshaw and I'll throw Rocky Thompson into that mix as well.

Oh, they started throwing them out there, right? Yeah. Yeah, just to see, like, I guess it was sort of a test to see, A, how they would do, how players react, what's the relationship between these assistant coaches and their players. Now, I'm not going to go full conspiracy theory and say they're testing to see who could coach this Flyers team

when John Tortorella takes his inevitable suspension. But I just thought that that was really interesting. They did that last season, and I did think about that today. And then you mentioned Bradshaw. I didn't write it down. So I'm glad you mentioned it. It's not as if they haven't sort of test-driven assistant coaches already, Elliot.

That's true. That's true. Okay. So we'll see where this one heads. Let's stay in Pennsylvania. And we're going to get to some of the trades here in a couple of moments, but there's more immediate pressing stuff right now, and we'll get there. The Pittsburgh Penguins, their last three games specifically.

6-0 against the Capitals. 5-1 against the Boston Bruins. 4-0 Sunday afternoon against the Edmonton Oilers. Outscored by a score of 15-1 against the Boston Bruins. 4-0 Sunday afternoon against the Edmonton Oilers. Outscored by a score of 15-1. This has been a tough stretch, to say the least. That's giving it a soft landing for the Pittsburgh Penguins. We made a lot about the Sidney Crosby comments after the Jake Gensel trade.

What are your thoughts now on what's next with Pittsburgh? It's just unbelievable to see them wave the white flag this week Gensel gets traded as you said they get blown out like that just the first shift you know Letang throws the puck right down the middle and McDavid intercepts and goes in and scores on Sunday it's like the game was over 25 seconds in you you never seen that I think there's a lot of players in the league who really feel for crosby uh they really do uh because i think that's just high how high the respect is for him i was thinking about this on saturday jeff but this is the first time in crosby's career

and you think it's this is 18 years he was drafted 18 years ago this summer that the pittsburgh penguins are going backwards just imagine it 17 and a half years the team is always going forward from the day he was drafted the penguins were obviously not a very good team but it was up up up up up they won a stanley cup three years after he was drafted they continued to push forward they won two more then even after they started to fall they kept on adding they never stopped adding when it looked like malkin and latang could be gone they re-signed and they both came back and now for the first time ever the organization has waved the white flag of surrender and after Gensel was traded the players followed suit and I've never seen this before since he's been acquired

we have never ever seen this and I think it hit crosby and some of those other players who've been around for a long time like an absolute wet towel in the face like it is a harsh harsh slap and and i think these guys are shell-shocked because they've never seen it before now that this led to a lot of questions about Crosby I have to say this I I don't I I just don't see him going anywhere I definitely didn't see it at the deadline and I don't see it going anywhere this summer I could totally be proven to be wrong because now instead of it being conceptual, it's actually happening and you never know how someone's going to react to that. But I really do believe that, and I've said this, I said this a couple of weeks ago on the podcast, that there will be an extension for him, a short one with a big number earlier on the podcast.

And a couple of weeks ago ago i guess three times ten and a half i'd other people say to me they bet it's going to be two times ten and a half but that's kind of where a lot of people are guessing i just i find it very hard to believe jeff that after letang signed with term and mulligan signed with term that he's going to walk on them and not see it through to some degree with them. Like I think if Crosby wants to, if he walked into Kyle Dubas's office any day and said it's time, they would do what they had to do to put him in a place where he's going to be happy. But I just find it hard to believe that it's going to be now. I think he's loyal to the organization. He's loyal to Letang and Malkin.

I want to think he gives them a chance to see what Dub can what dubas can do in the next year or two again i'm willing to concede i may be wrong on this i've got no inside information i just it was a big topic of discussion this week you know i i was getting dms from people saying they were hearing rumors that crosby could get traded now i was like there i don't believe there's any chance that's gonna happen they said well what about this summer and as we sit here on sunday night march the 10th days before the ides of march jeffrey very nice nice touch i i find it very hard to believe that he's gonna go anywhere in the short term i think he gives them a chance to see it out now Jeff I also think this I think the goal was for

a long time to keep Gensel I think they were gonna try to trade other people and keep Gensel but I think they realized the value for some of these other people wasn't as high as they'd hoped and that if they really wanted to add pieces it was going to have to be Gensel and that and I think they were I think the players were hoping Gensel could stay and I think Gensel was hoping he could stay I think he had people in his corner that were doing what their job is which is like jake you gotta have eyes wide open here but i really believe they wanted to keep him and move others and then reality hit them about what some of the worth of those other players were and they realized if anyone was going to have to

go to get them pieces it was going to have to be him. What should we read into? And again, there are a couple conditional draft picks, although the Carolina Hurricanes need to make it to the Stanley Cup final to see some of these conditions actualized. What should we read into the fact that this was not a Gensler trade based on draft picks, but players? Now, albeit young players players but still actual bodies living breathing young hockey players here does that indicate to you that they understand that they're rebuilding this thing

but they don't want to start from the root to get to the fruit they want it moved along a little bit quicker well i think anybody who'd been paying attention knew that was the case, that they did not want the trade to be based on draft picks. I said from about a week and a half ago that I really thought Carolina was the team to beat, that Carolina had the prospect pool that Pittsburgh liked the most. They thought of all the teams that would be interested,

they had the deepest amount of players that they could go get. And I never wavered from that. Now, I believe they knew, had a good idea what Carolina was willing to do. And I think they shopped it other places. They shopped it to Vegas, which is what Dubas is paid to do. I believe they shopped it other places. They shopped it to Vegas, which is what Dubas is paid to do. I believe they shopped it to Vegas. I believe they shopped it to Vancouver. I believe they shopped it to the Rangers

and anybody else who was in on this. And I think the Rangers, at the end of the day, were the team that was the best position to beat it. However, I don't believe, I'm not sure which one it was. People know the Rangers have a couple great prospects, Othman, Perot. I don't know which one we're talking about here. I keep hearing different things, and at this time of year,

there's so much noise, you've got to be careful however i believe that there was some i absolutely 100 believe there was somebody if the rangers had thrown them in they could have gotten gansel and the rangers didn't put that player in like whichever one it was the penguins wanted them and the rangers said no and ultimately carolina got the player i really do think that the if anybody was going to beat carolina it was probably new york with one or two particular prospects that the penguins had asked for okay um really bizarre time for the pittsburgh penguins right now and you right now. And the one player that I do wonder about through all of it, Elliot, because I'm with you on Crosby and his decision for his future. I'm one of those people that believes 1201 Eastern, July 1st, there's a contract, here's the pen, they're getting it done. I wonder about Eric Carlson through all of it. I wonder about Eric Carlson through all of it. That's the one guy that I keep coming back to.

There's a commitment from Malkin, the commitment from Chris Letang. That's the group that stayed. The one that I do wonder about is Eric Carlson. No question attached to any of this. That's just, I'll just lob that out there as my own feeling. That's the one guy that I wonder about here and his future with the Pittsburgh Penguins. I just don't know. Well, it's not going to be an easy one to move it definitely isn't i know and and you know i'll say this i think a lot there's going to be a lot of focus on ottawa

like if there's one team that you would think would consider it it would be them with daniel with Daniel Alfredson there. Ottawa, I think, did a lot of groundwork. And I think Ottawa had a lot of conversations, not only about, you know, they made some subtractions, but I also think they want to add. And people who are going to make them better right away. Ever since I wrote that about the possibility just in my head of Carlson going back, there's been a lot of feedback to me

about people who think it would be a good idea and people who think it wouldn't be a good idea. But if it's not Ottawa, it's hard. And don't forget, Carlson has a lot of control here. It's hard to see where it makes sense. I think the Sanders are going to be a really, really busy team in the offseason. I think they had a lot of conversations

that will kind of get punted into the summer. I know that I had people asking if I made a freudian slip on the show on saturday night no that was not intentional that was just a slip but i do think they had conversations about uh the future okay oh by the way i have to say before before we leave pittsburgh you know who i felt bad for on the weekend? Someone in Pittsburgh? Mike Sullivan, for one. I felt terrible for Sullivan. Well, someone who played against them, Calvin Pickard.

Why? Because he had to leave that game for a minute in the second period. He lost the shutout. Oh, right, right, right. Okay, sorry. I'm like, why? That's the second time he's done that to the Pittsburgh Penguins. I know, but he loses the shutout, unfortunately.

It's like on Saturday night, Demko and DeSmith, they don't get the shutout. It's a team shutout. So Pickard has to leave the game for basically a minute and a half of game play, and he loses the shutout. And by the way, since we mentioned it, Demko, I think he's going to miss a little bit of time. But I don't know exactly what's going on here,

but I don't think it's his groin. I don't think it's that. I think it's something else, and we all just have to get to the bottom of it but from what I understand it's not disastrous and it's probably even better for Vancouver that they're going to be forced to rest them a little bit

well that was the one concern right and we had talked about this a couple of different times you know the one thing after deadline once Vancouver's business is all done, they've made their team, find a way to arrest Thatcher Demko. Okay, Vegas, whether it's Noah Hannafin, whether it's Anthony Mantha, whether it's Tomas Hertel, or whether it's LTIR, Vegas, very much in all the headlines and I'll tell you Elliot again this is very unscientific but just being around minor hockey rinks this weekend you know what everybody

wants to talk about how are the Vegas Golden Knights doing this and how come their team can't do this as well your thoughts on Kelly McCrimmon the Vegas Golden Knights and what they're able to pull off at deadline. Well, I think the number one thing that has to be mentioned here,

because without this, it doesn't exist. In just six years, basically, they have turned their organization into a franchise that people want to play for oh yeah they could be as a part of part of that no no no i i you know what you know what it's no it's not the city of vegas it's that vegas and suburbs are a great place to live okay but there are a lot of great places to live in the NHL, a lot. But you have to turn yourself into a destination that people are willing to bend or contort

themselves to play for you. And Vegas has done that in a very short period of time. They have done that. Like you think about expansion teams and other sports how many times do expansion teams and other sports turn themselves into either champions or desired locations that quickly like the only one i can think of in recent memory is the arizona diamond backs i think they won the world series in their third or fourth season. And plus it's Arizona. People really like living there. Other than that, it's been really hard. And Vegas has done that. So that's number one. None of this happens

without people wanting to play and live there. Kelly McCrimmon had an interesting comment the other day. He says, we pay. And that is true. They are unafraid to pay money. They're unafraid to give up their draft picks. You take a look at all their first round draft picks in their history, whether selected or not selected. So if you make trades for them, you can argue about whether or not other teams get fair value. But the fact is, McCrimmon's not afraid to trade for example

number one picks you look at the history of their number one picks whether or not they've drafted players or they haven't made the picks yet they'll give up those picks they trust themselves to identify players and they're aggressive they make make hard decisions. Not always popular. Hard decisions aren't, but they're unafraid to make them. And I think when you add the fact that it's a no-tax state, a great place to live, the team's been successful,

you've created a situation where all of the advantages are pointing in your direction. And I think the Golden Knights see that and they are aggressive because of it i think that's what it comes down to they see that players want to play there and they push that aggression like noah hannifin said he wanted to go to the east coast well now they're gonna bet that he's gonna get his taste of vegas and he's gonna say you know what my buddy jack eichel's here no tax state and sunshine all year around this isn't so

bad and i just don't think that they would be like number one forget the salary cap forget everything else they wouldn't be able to do any of this if it hadn't become a destination okay so here becomes one of the questions and so linked to this on saturday as well what's the big biggest misgiving that people have about this one and i'm talking about people in the game, people in the NHL. I'm talking about the ownership level as well. What's the issue here with Vegas? I think the issue is here is that

a lot of it is simply competition. These are people who want to beat Vegas and like we've seen this movie before. Players get injured, they replace them, and they use it to their advantage. But again, I don't have a problem with that. If I was a manager, I would do the same thing. Like, Tampa Bay did the same thing,

and Kucherov was laughing at it on the podium as they were celebrating the Stanley Cup. And Kucherov was laughing at it on the podium as they were celebrating the Stanley Cup. And also, don't forget, a couple years ago, Vegas missed the playoffs because of this. Correct, yeah. You know, they ran into injury troubles, and they went from a sure playoff team

to a team that missed the playoffs, especially because of the injuries and goal. The league was really hard on them in terms of saying, no, you got to get these guys back in. So they have walked both lines of this edge. They've walked the line of the successful edge, and they've walked the line of the unsuccessful edge where they've fallen into the abyss.

So it's gone both ways for them. Look, I think this. For example, you know what text I got on Sunday? Colorado comes out and they say, Logan O'Connor's out for the season. And oh, by the way, Landis Gog, he won't be back till about May 10th. If we get that far, Landis Gog, May 10th at best. And, you know, people are texting me. They're like, see, they're telling us what Landis Gog's injury is and what his timeline is. And we're not sure about Mark Stone. Well, while that's true, again,

the injury that Stone suffered with his spleen is, you can't be sure. However, we all know this. Jeff, if he shows up for game one of the playoffs, it's going to be crazy. Like, it's going to be absolutely crazy. So what someone said to me was, and it was more than one person said to me is,

you can't do it in this CBA, but what about when they do the next one in a couple of years? And I thought this was a very fair point. How does a guy on LTIR not able to play in game 82 but suddenly oh two days later game one of the playoffs I'm fine now I can go and that's what they said if a player on LTIR can't come back in the regular season why should they be able to come back for two or three days later and say oh yeah those extra two or three days that's what got me over the hump. And I don't know what the level of support

is going to be for this, but I'm curious to see if it goes anywhere in the next CBA discussions. I'm just thinking about it from the National Hockey League Players Association point of view. What would they say about that? If you're on L ltir during the regular season

right up until the end you can't play in the playoffs i cannot see the players no no not not not well i'm not saying the full class but what about like a a set time what if you say for example if you don't if you can't play in, if you can't play Game 82, what if they said you got to miss four games or you got to miss seven games a round? You know what my concern would be? I would make that a safety issue and say that players would be rushing back when they're still hurt.

Doesn't that happen anyway? It does, but this is encouraging. You can't think that happens anyway doesn't that happen anyway but this is but this is encouraging you can't you can't encourage you i i i completely throw that out as irrelevant because that's what happens anyway but now elliot hang on a second here this is directly related to them playing in the playoffs and what about it but that happens anyway well hang on think about this i know i know exactly what you're saying but jeff i think it's irrelevant because that's the way everybody is wired regardless of the nature of the injury regardless i don't i don't know i honestly i can't see the players association going for that maybe not i may be i may be way

off base and if this is something that's going to be collectively bargained, then the PA is one half of that discussion. I cannot see them going for that. I cannot see the PA going for that one. Well, maybe not, but I think collective bargaining is all about bigger picture things, right? Like where would that rank in the overall things that the PA would want? Now people say to me, well, the salary cap should extend into the playoffs.

And here's the problem with that. And Ken Holland brought that up when they were bringing the salary cap in and everybody backed off because they remembered he was right. You'll remember in the 2002 playoffs, when Toronto went to the Eastern Conference final against Carolina and lost, the Maple Leafs had like 10 guys injured, right? Yep. And Holland said, what if that happens to you and you can't feel the team in the playoffs?

You're not going to want that. And he was right. Nobody wanted that. So that's why there's no cap in the playoffs, which I understand. I get that. But to me, Jeff, what you're bringing up, it's completely irrelevant

because that's the way everyone's wired anyway. Let me swing back to the ownership conversation quickly. Then I want to move on here. Ownership and no state tax teams. This is something that's come up every now and then, and we've always sort of shrugged it off and said, ah, c'est la vie. You allow a team in Texas, ah c'est la vie you know you allow a team in texas you allow teams in florida you allow a team in tennessee you allow a team in nevada this is just big washington why is there is there the beginnings of a movement of concern for competitive balance around no state tax teams? Someone told me there is on the weekend. And the Players Association, I don't think,

will have anything to do with it, which I understand. I think that's a bigger issue than the one you just raised. And someone said to me that if it's ever going to change, it's going to have to change at the ownership level because those are the people that Bettman listens to the most. And what their argument is, is that apparently there's some pretty aggressive projections for where the cap is going in the next few years. Even with the local television issues at places like Bally's, which have cost some teams about $10 million, I think, the revenue projections are pretty aggressive, and therefore the cap projections are pretty aggressive.

But they think that's going to give these no-tax state teams even more of an advantage. And the teams use it quite hard. Like you take a look at the – a couple of people said to me, you take a look at the contract that Forsling just signed in Florida. What do you think he signs for if he's a UFA in a tax state? Yeah, more than that, of course. It's not 575.

It's considerably higher than that. Just as a pause, I'm kind of surprised that it took this long for a team like the Florida Panthers to do the same thing that the Tampa Bay Lightning had been doing for years. Because they weren't as good an organization. I understand that. That goes back to what we talked about with Vegas. I understand. Now, you look at all the things the Panthers are doing, the new practice facilities, some of the new facilities,

there's some beautiful places to watch the game from now in their rink. They have a couple of great lounges. They have a great whiskey bar, which I am lucky I didn't find out about during games, during the Stanley Cup playoffs. You know, they have like, that has been what their entire goal has been, is to turn themselves into Tampa East.

And they're starting to do it. Like the people who run that organization right now in terms of like the things they are the ancillary things they are doing around the team not only the winning the winning is the most important thing but some of the ancillary things they're doing around the team to make it more of a destination for players, it's paying off for them right now. So that's like Forsling 5.75. I don't know if you were getting him to do that three or four years ago, but you're getting him to do it now.

And like if he goes somewhere else, the deal's probably not that number. And that's why, and that's a sign for me of what the panthers are beginning to do and like i said i i like i i think people are starting to talk about this but if it's going to change at all it's going to change at the ownership level i think the canadian teams are really worried about it but it's it's really really unfair because a lot of the U.S. teams would say, ah, that's a Canadian problem. I think the difference now is that some of the U.S. teams in the high-tax states are starting to realize,

uh-oh, this isn't only a Canada problem. This is a problem for us too. You know who I could see being and feeling really burned by this? Who's that? When you talk about Canadian teams teams elliot the ones that pay into revenue sharing of course are the ones that are looking at this and saying really this is getting worse like this and i'm writing a check for how much those are the ones that i can see being real esteemed at this one and how, and how it's progressing. Okay.

Let me run through a couple of, um, a couple of the trades that we saw on deadline. I know it might be a few days. Oh, by the, by the way to, I,

let me just say this, you know, Vegas was aggressive with hurdle, which I thought was a great move for them. And one that came by surprise to us, San Jose, the hurdle deal deal it's a sign they dipped their toe into a rebuild a couple years ago and then it went completely sideways they never saw this coming they never thought this year was going to play its way out like this. And now the hurdle trade tells us there's no more uncertainty about who they are and

what they really are and where they're going. The full teardown is on the way in San Jose and it has to happen. Sometimes it's like Pittsburgh. Sometimes reality just smashes you in the face that's what happened to the sharks this year and that's where we are a full rebuild they know it's their time it was tough i don't know if you saw logan couture's quotes oh yeah he's making it sound like he's not sure he's gonna play next year either so that's that's what i wanted to get to then what does this mean for logan couture listen, we saw Mark Edward Vlasic's tweet on Friday

with the sobbing emoji as everyone is leaving around him. But I do wonder about Logan Couture through all of this as well, too. Well, look, you could tell how rueful he was and how tough it was, but he sure made it sound like he might not be ready to start next year. Number one, you just want him not be ready to start next year. Number one, you just want them to be able to play. Yeah. Okay.

Let me fly through a couple of trades here. A couple of interesting notes from trade deadline. And listen, I'm going to focus in on initially on someone who wasn't traded and that's Lena Solmark of the Boston Bruins. Now, after the victory against the Pittsburgh Penguins, there was that interesting interplay

between him and Swayman, where Swayman essentially said to him, you stayed, you're here, you're one of us still, and the big goalie hug. Just your thoughts on the Linus Ulmark situation around trade deadline freeze. There were many that thought that he was gone. I think he thought it too.

I heard it was a really emotional week for him behind the scenes. He made it very clear he didn't want to leave, but I think he thought it too i heard it was a really emotional week for him behind the scenes he made it very clear he didn't want to leave but i think he was expecting that he would be traded you know the thing is here is that i always say this it's a player's right if you get it in your contract that you have a no trade clause it is your right to say no and i believe he he exercised and especially in the middle of a season um that you know and and it's potentially far away from where you are i i completely understand that and um you know the report has been la i i've heard nothing that makes me dispute it um you know obviously he hasn't commented on that and don sweeney hasn't said anything

and i've heard the kings are not very happy because that leads to questions about who potentially was involved yeah um but you know i i've heard nothing that makes me disbelieve that la was the team uh but i also think that there were some teams in the East that Boston was talking to, potentially about some other situations. And I think there was more than one. I think there were a couple. And I don't know if they were ones he could have blocked or not.

I believe in at least one case the deal fell apart. I think it's also possible the team that was talking to Boston said, well, we'd rather do Swayman and Boston just shut that down, said that's not happening. But there's definitely some conversations about all Mark that happened over the last couple of weeks that I think will be revisited in the summer and, or after the season's over, I don't think this is over. I think all Mark realizes that.

And, you know, the other thing too, is I would assume, um, at some point, i don't know when like every team is different some teams it's july 1st june 30th whatever it is but i don't know when omar has to submit his list but you know that's going to be part of this too uh and you know boston i i don't think these conversations are over i i would guess that that Boston was one of the most disappointed teams at the deadline. I think they got Maroon. They got Peek from Columbus. And people told me that Peek is a better player than what happened to him this year. He just got caught in a numbers game in Columbus.

But I think Boston would be one of the more disappointed teams in that they couldn't do some of the things that they wanted to do. But I think Boston's going to be a really interesting team in the offseason. There's no question about that to me. I don't know if that three-way deal was ever going to happen with Vancouver andouver and boston and pittsburgh i had some people who really disputed that to me i think vancouver was really unhappy that some of the lindholm stuff got out um i think there were some really tough

conversations between the canucks and lindholm and his representatives about that. I don't think it was easy. I think the Canucks were really unhappy. This is a time of year that's really stressful. Teams get unhappy. Players get unhappy. And that definitely happened in Boston's case with, I think, Allmark, the whole Lindholm situation.

And I think they're going to be a really interesting team in the offseason. Evgeny Kuznetsov very briefly enjoyed a raise while in the American Hockey League. He was not paying escrow. He was sticking that money in his jeans, not unlike Wade Redden so many years ago who got sent to the American Hockey League

and got a raise because of it. He becomes a member of the carolina hurricanes uh scale of one to ten how much of a surprise was this for you when i first heard it it was like 17 but when when it came out it was much less i heard it about 48 hours before the uh before it happened and i was working on it um you know it doesn't surprise me it's Carolina. It's like partially because it's the whole market inefficiency thing. And secondly, because Rod Brindamore, if you look at his history, he's got some pretty positive quotes about Kuznetsov.

And, you know, I think the thing is too, I have no doubt they went to some of their players and said how do you feel about this and I think their leadership group accepted you know Kuznetsov knows this is it like this is his last chance if he doesn't make this work he's done and you know it's a gamble there's no question and it's going to go one of two ways it's going to roll snake eyes or it's going to roll lucky sevens and you know so far it's off to a good start um but it's all on him everybody knows how good he is everybody knows how talented he is um but it was but it's his time to show he's he can he can still do it it's also a win for washington

because there were some people who told me that when i started to hear that this was going on i had people who were telling me that washington was going to have to pay carolina to do it like maybe they were going to have to include a second rounder or something like that and i think washington only having to eat half the salary is they'll say, we'll take that. You know, even if it goes well, we'll take that. So I think that's a big win for the Capitals too in terms of what they had to do to make it happen.

I don't know if we'll ever get a full picture of what happened with Carolina here at the deadline. We already know a lot. They got Gensel and they got Kuznetsovv but i think they had some other things they were doing too like i i heard they had about 35 different things that were going on there that they they could have potentially done wow um bo byron for casey middlestad colorado and buffalo um buffalo has some heavy lifting to do in the offseason. Meanwhile, the Colorado Avalanche got some business done on trade deadline.

Casey Middlestad, Sean Walker, Brandon Duhaime, Yakov Trenin comes in. That's a heavy team. That is a heavier team ready for some heavy hockey in the Western Conference. I don't know who's going to come out of the West this year, Elliot, but whoever it is, it's going to be but whoever it is is going to be bruised. It's going to be bruised. That first round of playoffs is going to be incredible. Like absolutely incredible, that first round of the playoffs.

And I don't know how anybody is going to wager on that. It is going to be impossible to predict some of those series um you know colorado got meaner there's no question about that they added a lot of beef duhaime plays hard um obviously trennan plays hard i think trennan was on toronto's radar i think that was one of the teams that uh was at Trennan. You know, I got to say this about Nashville, too. Like, for everybody they moved, they got someone to replace them. You know, I just heard the Trennan negotiations were really tough. So, you know, and Carrier, you know, conventional wisdom is you get rid of guys like that because we weren't sure that they, and I don't know if they're 100 sure they're going to be able to get an extension done but they held them like

Nashville acted like a team that wants to make the playoffs or wanted to reward its players but I really like Colorado's moves they weren't the sexy moves of what Vegas did but I think they filled a lot of holes you know the Byram deal is is pretty simple Bo Byram I think they filled a lot of holes. You know, the Byram deal is pretty simple. Bo Byram, I think eventually they knew they were going to lose him. They knew that as long as McCarr was there, that Byram, who was a really good soldier and a really good player for a long time, including a great playoff run when they won the Stanley Cup a couple of years ago,

that eventually he was going to say, you know what, I want to be the number one guy. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think it's perfectly understandable. The best want to be the best. And I think they knew that the clock was ticking with him. And in Middlestad, they want a number two center who could be a 50, 60 point guy.

And they think they've got one now and you know it's it's funny we're gonna have an interview with alex tuck that's gonna drop in a couple of days and you know tuck really talked up middle stat i don't know if they i i'm curious to know now if you had any idea that this was potentially happening because we taped the interview the night before the trade and he really talksdlestad in terms of his hockey sense. And Colorado just thought he was the perfect fit to play right behind McKinnon. And it's going to be interesting to see.

Buffalo's talking like this handedness thing doesn't matter, but they've got five lefties, including Johnson. It's going to be interesting to see what this means long term for them and so and you know it's funny like an hour before the trade where I was talking on your show about how some of the Buffalo guys were telling me how Middlestadt was really tight with guys like Darlene they loved them so they loved them it's a huge huge. Huge deal. I think I completely understand it from Colorado's side. I understand why you'd want a guy like Byram on your team on Buffalo's side. I'm just curious to see what it's going to mean for the Sabres roster construction.

It's like the first step. You can see there's going to be more here from Buffalo. The one thing that I shouldn't say positive about, but I have strong feelings about, how's that? Rasmus Dahlin, now with Kyle Oposo gone, he's the next captain. He's the next captain of the Buffalo Sabres. You don't think there's any chances, Tuck? I'm just feeling the whole thing's being done around Rasmus Dahlin.

I mean, I can't argue with you on there. I can't argue. I was just wondering if it was going to be Tuck. Oh, he's wearing an A now. But it's not like Dahlin's a bad choice. So Colorado, interesting. So in the Sean Walker deal, they sent Ryan Johansson to the Philadelphia Flyers.

What's going to happen here, Elliot? This is an uncomfortable one. Well, initially when it happened, I didn't think there was any chance that Johansson was going to play there. He was going to be waived and when he cleared um that he was going to go to the minor leagues or they were going to find a place for him in the whether it was in lehigh valley or somewhere else and then i understand that there was some attempt to you know also don't forget tortorella and johansson they have a complicated history to say the least yes and then i heard that there was some attempt at reconciliation like johansson indicated that he would like to make it work and he wanted to play in the NHL and play for the Flyers. And I heard the Flyers were willing to have the conversation. And then came word that Johansson's battling something, whether an injury or what the case was and so now that's all on hold and I think at the time of the deadline like some of these things get thrown into the background it'll be interesting

to see where this goes because Johansson would probably be bought out at the end of the year and if you're injured you can't be bought out there was a pretty famous situation a couple years ago where a team was going to put a player on waivers to buy them out and they made a courtesy call and what they claimed was that right before the waiver deadline the agent told the team that the player had suffered an injury during training and therefore they couldn't buy him out and the team complained to the league about it and the league said you know sorry if if there's a legit injury there you you can't do it so like that's a thing so we'll see where this all goes but you know also too there's some hard feelings there just in general because johansson is represented by uh kurt overhart and kurt overhart represents uh cutter goche or because he's in the ncaa he's cutter goche's family advisor

you gotta turn the business card you gotta flip the business card on one side it says agent on the other side says family advisor make sure you're showing the right one although in the NIL age I don't even know if it matters anymore but whatever let's just let's just keep him eligible we'll play along we'll play the game okay let's just keep him eligible okay um and so there's hard feelings there, and people wonder how much that plays into all of this, but we'll see where that goes with Ryan Johansson and Philly. Okay, a couple more real quick. Tyler Tafoli goes to the Winnipeg Jets.

Your thoughts on what Kevin Shevelday off did around deadline? I really liked the Jets' deadline. I thought they had a really good deadline. I think that that's, I mean, despite what happened in Vancouver on Saturday night when they got punished, I think that's – I think they had a really good deadline. I liked the Toffoli ad. I really liked the Colin Miller ad.

There was a lot of competition for Toffoli. I heard Edmonton was in there. Vancouver was in there. There were a lot of rumors about L.A., but I just don't think – L.A. was also interested in Riley Smith. They just didn't have room to do anything. But on the morning of it, the morning of the deadline, I heard that Winnipeg made a massive pitch,

and they obviously got the deal done, that they worked the hardest to get it done. So I really like Winnipeg's deadline. I think he's going to be a perfect fit for them again I I have no idea who's going to win this this conference in the playoffs but I I really liked it for them I thought it was a I thought it was a great pickup and you know the other team too like I'm going to be curious when when this year is over i'm gonna be very curious about what edmonton did did not do uh in terms of i think they had a few irons out there i mean obviously they're around on tan of uh but i think there were i think there were a couple others and um you know i think they considered some subtractions from

their team ultimately decided not to do it i know everybody's kind of talking about cc and i mentioned on the chicklets pod last week i think some players had had indicated they prefer to have cc kept around but i don't think he was the only one i i think there were others they considered subtracting um you know the thing is too, is I heard the Calgary veterans, they made it pretty clear they didn't want Markstrom trading anywhere. And, you know, at the end of the day, I think occasionally, you know, teams, organizations will listen to their players, but not always. And I think if there were really things that could have happened

that these two teams could have done, they probably would have done them anyway. What it says to me is that there just wasn't anything put in their way that they felt the need to do that for. Tough weekend for Calgary too. They really got hammered in their two games in Florida and Carolina after the deadline. Yeah.

Tough there. You know, you mentioned the San Jose Sharks about half an hour ago, although it feels like three hours now. This thing is already going Broadway. Anthony DeClaire goes to the Tampa Bay Lightning. Matt Dumba goes to the Tampa Bay Lightning. I think we're all wondering about Noah Hannafin

going to the Tampa Bay Lightning. How did you see Julianne Brisebois at deadline? Well, I think he was really disappointed he didn't get Hannafin. I think he thought he was going to get him. If Hannafin had a total no trade clause instead of a partial one, he ends up in Tampa. in Tampa. But because it was a partial one, I think that it worked out the way it did,

where Calgary had an out and they took the one to Vegas. Like, you know, Craig Conroy, he's a very nice person, but don't underestimate his competitive nature. And the people he works around, Dave Nones, Don Maloney, especially Don Maloney, they are very competitive people. And you have to think that Calgary liked the return they got, but deep down, it wouldn't surprise me if a little bit of this was to, hey, we're not going to let everybody dictate to us.

We're going to dictate some of this as well and i heard tampa was really disappointed they didn't get hannifin that was a guy they they wanted and thought they were going to get i like the moves for duclair and dumba like one thing about dumba in particular is he's very emotional in a good way declares fast uh tampa can use speed um but dumba too i like especially the like dumb as a guy you know it's funny it was someone was talking about dumb i think i mentioned in one of the previous pods there there's sometimes in non-emotional games where he's just not as good as he can be but when when the emotion is high, he really gets into it. And I think sometimes when you're like Tampa and you need a bit of a jolt or you're struggling or you're worried,

you're getting a bit stale. Dumba is good for that. And, um, like the same thing, Zucker, I think he'll be perfect for Nashville. Um,

but I like, I like the Dumba acquisition too for Tampa because I think he'll give them an emotional jolt. Okay, one final thing here. So the New York Islanders continue to refuse to lose and on Sunday handed it to the Anaheim Ducks. 6-1 is the final score there. All of a sudden the Islanders, Elliot are in don't look now i always think of al mcginnis around the trade deadline how is this going to go in your room because there are teams

you never know if a team is going to say add something add something add something show us you believe in us and there are other teams who are like, we don't need anything, we don't need anything, we don't need anything. Show us you believe in us. And Lou Amorello didn't do anything. And if you're Patrick Waugh, you're selling this to your guys as,

because Waugh is the emotion king. He knows, he's the psychological master. He knows how to do this. I guarantee to you, he walked into that room and said, guys, your GM believes in you. He didn't add, but he didn't subtract. You know, I wrote on Tuesday or Wednesday that Lou Lamorello never backs down.

Then he gave a scrum where he was like, like, give up? Are you joking? So it was just perfect Lamorello. But I guarantee to you, he walks in there and says, guys, maybe we didn't add, but we didn't subtract,

which is proof we believe in you. If we don't make the playoffs, it's proof that the problem wasn't the organization. It was you guys. So you know that's red meat to some of those guys. And the thing about Wai is he's got them believing. I always bet on the teams with the best goaltending. And you look at this time of year you look at Detroit

you look at Philly you look at all these teams they're chasing Islanders have the best goaltending the best goaltending and you know who's really had a good year this year who I don't think that gets enough recognition for it is Cal Clutterbuck he scored the last goal in Anaheim boy he has had a really

nice season so there you go good on the islanders winners of six games in a row now tucked into a playoff spot we'll see where this one heads that will not sit well with steve eiserman and the detroit red wings elliot not by a long shot. Let me ask you now, before we get to break Montana's thought line on the other side. Now the trade deadline has taken our eyes away from a story as big as the Arizona Coyotes. Does the focus start to sharpen again on the Arizona Coyotes and their situation in the league? Yes, it does. On the Arizona Coyotes? Yes. And their situation in the league?

Yes, it does. We were sent a story tonight, and I want to thank the tweeter, Brooks D. Simpson. Regular tweeter. Oh, really? Okay. Nice. Thanks, Brooks. He sends stuff all the time.

He's a great guy. He sent us a story from News 12 Arizona that there could be the meeting on Thursday, the Arizona Land Department, and the minimum sale price is $68.5 million. So even if that happens, the auction date would be 10 weeks later possibly in late may or early june so what we've got here jeff is parallel worlds world a is they go to auction and they win it, and World B is either the auction doesn't happen or they lose it. They have to be preparing. The NHL and the Coyotes have to be preparing for both at once.

That's what's going on. There's World A. Buckle up. You win the auction.'s world b you lose what next did you ever see sliding doors with gwyneth paltrow this is a real yes it's a good movie yes this is a real life sliding doors i just wonder how i know all the contingencies are probably being prepared is how quickly you can pivot if you're the NHL or the coyotes for that matter if they don't win the auction it's going to be like lego if this happens insert everything here. If that happens, insert everything here.

I love your analogies. They're terrible. Okay, Elliot, before we get to the Montana's Thought Line, one thing that we should remark upon, because it is very much in the spirit of this podcast, God bless you, John Hines. I love when teams go for it. And in this situation,

it could have cost them the extra point in overtime if it had gone wrong but they're tied in overtime against the national predators they pull mark andre flurry for the four on three and they score and as we all know now if they hadn't have been successful and they got scored on they would have lost the extra point what'd you think i knew that was right up your alley i loved it i but i like the big brass ones of the move i that's what i that's i i really like the thing i loved it but then i think by now you know me well enough to know that i love situations where you're forced into a decision and that that's why I love things like, you know, choose your opponent in the opening round of the playoffs. I love forced decisions like this. So knowing that Minnesota needed two points here,

they really had to gamble and good on John Hines for doing it. It doesn't sound like Matt Boldy knew the consequence could have been the extra point that they had already earned by getting into overtime. But nonetheless, perfect shot by Boldy. Completely perfect shot. And the one thing that I had wondered is, you know, do the guys all know the rule? And if they do, who has the stones to take the shot? Because if you- Well, you have a lot of stones to take it

when you don't know the exact consequences. So that really helps. It's like the Super Bowl this year. Not every player realized the overtime rules, which made it, especially considering a game of that magnitude that not everybody would know those rules. But I loved it. I thought it was great theater.

I like to see people rewarded for those kinds of decisions um i remember when i found out about this it was a it was a game a long time ago when peter laviolette was coaching the islanders in toronto in a big game late in the year and it was tied and he didn't pull his goalie in overtime and it was like five seconds with the face off at the other end. And Pierre Lebrun and I were the last two in the scrum. And we said to him, did you all think about pulling your goalie? And it had been a tough game and a tough year. So Laviolette wasn't in a great mood.

And he looked at us and goes, we could basically tell he was looking at us like, you guys don't know the rules. But he just looked at us and said, you can basically tell he was looking at us like, you guys don't know the rules. But he just looked at us and said, you can't do that. And then he walked away. And Pierre and I looked at each other like, what do you mean you can't do that? And someone overheard, I can't remember who it was, but I think it was one of the players. And he came to us and said, can't do that because if you give up that goal you lose the point in ot and so this has to be about 20 something years ago and we had no idea we had no idea so that's

when i first learned about the rule like there were people tweeting at me today saying what kind of hockey guy are you you moron you get one point if you lose in overtime a lot of people didn't know that rule i'm not making fun of anyone because i didn't know the rule until a coach told me but there's two other things i think about here in this predators wild shootout number one going for it like that with the empty net it just fits bill garren you know, if there's any GM that would back his coach doing that, it's Bill Guerin. The other thing here, and I'll bet the Wild knew this, is that the Predators have gone to two shootouts this year.

They've won both, and they're 5-for-5. So I'm going to bet that deep down, the Wild knew if the Predators went to a shootout, they're good at it and the wild could lose. All right. Speaking of rules, we usually get rules questions on the Montana's Thought Line. That's next on 32 Thoughts.

Listen to the 32 Thoughts podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. Time now once again for the Montana's Thought Line, Montana's Barbecue and Bar, Elliot. Canada's home for barbecue. Try the ribs. 32thoughts.sportsnet.ca is the email by phone, 1-833-311-3232.

Before we get to questions, here is a long-distance story, Elliot, that I think you'll... Oh, wait a sec, wait a sec, wait a sec. Before we get to this, I have a thought line question for you. Oh, geez. Okay. How young is too young to take someone to go see Bill Burr? I think it all depends on how mature the kid is. Why? Are you considering taking your son to Bill Burr?

So this is the thing. Pat McAfee, who I love, was tweeting that he saw Bill Burr in indianapolis on saturday night and he said the show was fantastic yeah so i look to see when bill burr is coming in or near toronto uh-huh and it turns out sunday night which is tonight for the recording of this podcast. And yesterday, for those of you hearing this podcast, he's playing in Detroit. So I was thinking, I'm decompressing a bit this week. Spur of the moment. Let's go see Bill Burr in Detroit.

Max has to come with us. Steph put the kibosh on this oh she said and my son is 12 yeah steph put the kibosh on this and i don't know i put up a fight i put up a fight. But I lost. I get it. I would. My boys are 14 and 12. I would.

And mainly because they love stand-up comedy. And they love jokes. Like, they're at that age where it's past the dad pirate jokes. And they're into, like, getting into grown-up jokes. So I would. I don't know if that makes me a bad parent. Maybe it does to some, but I would take my boys.

But again, I would, to be honest with you, I would do what you have done and I would defer to Claire on this one. Yeah, I conceded. I conceded. There's no win in fighting elliot just resistance is futile just take the l just take the l yeah i did i did okay all right just wanted to hear your opinion no i mean i would have i would have done the same thing that you did i would have i would have i

would have taken put up token resistance token resistance knowing that you know it's a pretty thin veil you're wearing and you're going to get exposed and the answer is going to be no okay here's a uh here's a long distance email i love this one marku from finland all right this is i love this story i i can only imagine what it must have been like in the rink when this happened marku from finland hey guys greetings from Finland. Love listening to your pod. Will try the ribs if I ever get there.

Excellence. Not a question, but a story on the topic of referees forgetting the number of the penalized player. So more than 10 years ago in Tampere, Finland, a local team, Tapara, had a delayed penalty coming for a long time. When the play was whistled off the ref truly had forgotten the number of the penalized player so he went to the bench and asked Tapara's captain Yanni Oyanin remember him New Jersey oh yeah I remember Yanni Oyanin

yeah who the player was and Yanni said number. And the referee skated over to the officials and loudly told everyone, Tapara, number two, two minutes for tripping. The officials looked at the ref, waved him over and pointed at the rafters. And there was Tapara, number two, which had been raised there for Mr. Kalevi Numanen, Finnish national and dad of the one and only Teppo Numanen.

Don't remember if Yanni Uyanen got a misconduct for that, but hilarious it was. Keep up the good work. You know what? I don't know that I would give a misconduct for that. I would have to say good one. I love that story. I would simply have to say that's a good one.

Oh, Jan, he played for the Devils. I think he scored like 20 goals one year. Yes, he did. Jani Ujana. I hadn't heard the name in years until Markku from Finland sent along this one. So thank you for that one, Markku. Okay. So to some of the questions.

Now, some of these are framed because they came in before trade deadline. So you'll hear things like this. Guillaume from Calgary. Happy trade deadline week to Elliot, Jeff, and Dom. Love the pod. With all the rumors related to Jacob Markstrom specifically, in your experience in the industry, is the general consensus, pet peeve, it's just consensus, from players that they like to be kept in the loop if they are potentially moving, or do they like to have the news broken to them once the deal is confirmed, Elliot? Okay, there's two ways to look at that answer.

There's the teams and there's also the player. I think a lot of players, particularly if you're married with a family, the moment that you hear a name or your name I should say you want to know you'll ask your agent you'll ask the team what's going on out there you will have situations like that you have some players and I would say it's in the minority they don't want to know at all. I think a lot of players, particularly if you're married with a family, you want to know. And also it can really depend, Jeff, on what team you play for.

I think one thing we're really learning about this league, if we haven't learned it already, is that depending on where you are and the amount of coverage that you get, your name tends to be out there a lot more than some other teams like there's some other teams that don't get a lot of coverage or the microscope isn't as high on them so you tend not to hear as much so I think it depends on the player it depends on how much your name is out there and it depends on you know do you have a family are you a single guy who just doesn't care I think for teams can be very different you know also it could depend on do you have a no move clause or a no trade clause does the team have to come up to you and say hey we're considering

something so that is obviously a huge factor on it. You know, some teams, they will tell a player, hey, you should know this. There are other teams who tend to be very guarded about it because they don't want it to affect their players or their teams unless they absolutely have to. have to and I think the other thing here is there were a number of players at this deadline who had their wives or their partners were pregnant or about to give birth or just had given birth I think Venberg was in that situation Adam Henrik was in that situation Nick Bugstad was in that situation. Adam Henrik was in that situation. Nick Bjoegstad was in that situation. And there's another player who asked me to keep it private, but who was in that situation too. And I said to, when Anaheim came through Toronto, I was talking to Henrik about it. And I said, I figured you would have planned it better. And he laughed and said, do you think we plan anything? Like, I kind of got a good laugh out of that.

But there was one player I know of who, through his agent, went to the organization and said, look, my wife is due around this time. I'd really appreciate if you can, if you didn't move me. And the organization acceded to that request they did now that all that can't always happen you know henrik was traded uh venberg was traded um uh bjokstad was not and everybody's different you know some people understand this is part of the business some people ask for hey it would be better for us if you didn't. And I do think, you know, I think in a lot of those situations, it can come down to what the offer is. Some teams will say, yes, we didn't get anything that would even make us think about doing it. And so we appreciate your request.

But there are times where teams say we didn't want to do it but the offer we got was so good that we had to do it so i think all of those things kind of play into it and i would say every individual is different and many organizations are different uh guillaume thanks a lot for that question and the uh the very thorough answer well Well done, Elliot. I can tell that you've rested since Friday, by the way. I'm feeling better now, I have to say that. You know, I have a funny story. So Friday night, someone organized a dinner and I was like, I don't think I'm in the ability to do this.

Like my brain is completely fried. And they're like, don't worry, we'll go for dinner at 8 and then we'll leave at 10 and come back home. I fell asleep. I fell asleep and I missed him leaving the hotel. And I said, you know what, I'm going to pass. I feel terrible. And I got a text from him at 11.30 saying, good thing you didn't come.

So I knew I made the right call there. Is there a picture of him at 1130 saying, good thing you didn't come. So I knew I made the right call there. Is a picture of him leaving the conga line through the saloon? Is that pretty much? Yes. All right. Tie around the forehead. Okay. Good thing I stayed home. Okay. This comes from Brent. This is a philosophical question, a speculative question, a hypothetical situation here, Elliot's from brent what do you guys think of allowing players to be loaned to other teams like in soccer i think the current rules in soccer don't allow the player to play against a team he belongs to could you imagine the speculation and fun the media and fans could have if if let's say the blackhawks wanted to get bedard some playoff

experience and loaned him to the toronto maple Leafs for the remainder of the 2024 season or if the Montreal Canadiens loaned Caulfield to the Oilers for the same reason how crazy would trade deadline be if loaners were part of the picture what kind of return could the teams get if they loaned a Bedard or Caulfield or Rasmus Dallin or Brady Kachuk I will always remind people this used to be a thing in the canadian hockey league in junior where all right for the memorial cup right you could loan goaltenders so carl mcclelland went from sherbrooke to cornwall oh what a what a name what like that one there's a pull up holy cow hey we had yanni uyanin earlier i gotta raise that's right uh pat riggan uh was

another one. Oh, I remember Pat Riggin. Yeah, the Knights of the 67s. Mike Vernon, you've talked about before, Hall of Famer now from Calgary to Portland. And our good friend and colleague, John Garrett. And this is the one I think that you always raise, going from Peterborough to Montreal.

I think John Davidson was another one. Yes, he was. He was loaned to Edmonton to the Oil Kings. Absolutely. Good call there. Good call there good call there okay loners in the it'll never happen but do you want to play with this one a little bit well i i think it's a fantastic idea i i really do i i agree with you that it'll never happen but it would be it would be awesome it would be incredible it would be a lot of fun and i can think of the uh uh the

social media activity and social media outrage uh around all of the decisions okay uh a voicemail let's get to robin in the netherlands so check this out hey jeff and elliot robin here from amsterdam netherlands actually i have a question for you. Is there a time limit where a player can be traded or put on waivers after they have entered the NHL assistance program? I just didn't know if there was like a six-month after we can't trade him because he had this help and everything like that from the program. Anyways, thanks for doing such a good job. Take care.

It's a good question. I all right good question i'm assuming this is coming up because of kuznetsov and washington the day after it was announced that he was out of the program and allowed to rejoin the team for practice they waived him um i don't know that there's any steadfast rule against it um and to be honest if the player agrees to it uh i think i don't think there would be any issue at all um but i don't know jeff that there's any steadfast rule against it i think if you did something that the player didn't approve of while they were in the program you bet you'd probably be bracing for an avalanche of criticism. While it may seem tasteless, trading someone while they're in the NHL,

NHLPA Players Assistance Program, teams are allowed to do it. You are allowed to trade a player while they are in the assistance program. Again, it may seem tasteless, and I understand that, but you are allowed to do it. Okay, let's get to,

and that's a very good question, by the way, Robin. Kevin, hello, fellas. I know you're busy with trade deadline approaching. Again, this is from last week. My question relates to three team deals. How do teams normally get a third team involved? My assumption would be that two teams talk about a deal, but for whatever reason, it doesn't work. So they engage a third team. Does a GM or both GMs send out a league-wide text asking for help? I would think that would be a no-no, since the buying GM would want to keep the trade on the down low. Thanks, good work on the pod.

The dynamics of the three-way deal, Elliot. Well, first of all, you know who can do it and who can't, right? So you probably have a list or a note of what teams you can contact and you probably contact them directly. And, you know, the other thing is too, is there's kind of a chart. I don't even know if it's an actual chart, but everybody has something where you look at all of the deals that have happened and what the amount of retention is, and therefore what the price should be. Now, that doesn't mean you can't haggle or negotiate based on that, but generally everyone knows if say you're eating $500,000, what's that worth?

Now, there's a couple of them that are really different. You know, San Jose is going to be eating 17% for six years, right? So that can be a different conversation. It doesn't look like that was a huge impediment to that trade, but it can be a different conversation. With Calgary and New Jersey, there was also a bit of a difference on, you know, Calgary would have had to eat probably about, if that trade had happened when it was talked about, they probably would have had to eat about five and a half million dollars or so. So that becomes a different conversation.

But a lot of the ones that are for short-term rentals or, you know, maybe a little over a year, those ones are kind of, I don't want to say fixed, but everybody knows what the targets are. But the way it goes is you know who can eat money. You know who's willing to eat money. Those teams let it be known that they're willing to eat money and you get in touch with them. All right, very good.

And that's it for this week's Montana's Thought Line, brought to you by Corrado Mikhelev and Yanni Uyanin. Always a good day when you can say these rather obscure names around the NHL. The Montana's Thought Line, Montana's barbecue and bar, Canada's home for barbecue. We're back in a moment. okay elliot wrapping up another podcast here 32 thoughts presented uh by the gmc sierra um check under the hood i just want to shout out and i think you're the same what happened to check your oil now let's check under the hood

so so thomas hickey texted me and said you should do a different one every time and i listened to whatever thomas hickey tells me so i just did it all right that's fair that's fair so we've got check your oil and check under the hood and thank you to our friends at GMC. Wanted to shout out and congratulate Lou Nanny. Now, you know that Lou Nanny is one of my favorite people. And I can still recall my father saying to me, geez, I would have been like 12 years old. I remember he said, son, the smartest person in hockey is in Minnesota. And he meant Lou Nanny. So after 60 years of calling the Minnesota High School State Championship, Lou calls it a career. Elliot, he started this, I want to remind you, when he was still a player, in 1964. 1964, Lou Nanny's still a player, and he's calling the Minnesota State High School Championship, which is an outstanding hockey tournament.

His highlights, as he's talked about before, seeing his son Marty score the championship-winning goal in 1984 for Edina. His two grandkids in the tournament also winning championships, Tyler Nanny and Vinny Letary as well, both winning state titles. I've always maintained he's the best NHL president the league never had. Wonderful hockey mind, brilliant marketer, really progressive thinker. You've heard me say this before. I just referenced somewhere in his career, he should have been leader of the NHL,

either as a president as they were then or a commissioner as we know now. I always say that Lou Nanny should have been that guy in the NHL. But congratulations to Lou. 60 years, Elliot. Started in 1964 calling these games. And you know what I said to him? You could still do it.

Of course he could. And, you know, it's not like anybody was forcing him to say, okay, you have to go. But I guess everybody reaches a point where they say it's time. And I'm glad he's getting to call his own shot. Absolutely. Did it his way the great loon andy congratulations sweet lou from the suit thanks for joining us once again on 32 thoughts the podcast