32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Trippin' Out In Trenton

Episode Date: September 30, 2022

Live from Trenton! Jeff and Elliotte continue their 32tour.com with a stop in Trenton, ON. They guys chat about the new contract for Rasmus Sandin (2:20), expanding pre-season rosters (6:50), hitting in pre-season (12:30), the salary cap (19:00), Florida extending Spencer Knight (21:40), what’s happening with Jason Robertson (25:00), and they discuss some news around the Vancouver Canucks (35:40).They also chat about the Summit Series and how they remember 1972 (26:40).Here is the piece Elliotte wrote with Rory Boylen regarding the salary capThis podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman. Editing support by Mike Rogerson.Audio Credits: Bally Sports West.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

You off your phone? You ready to go? I'll be back on it in a minute. You're all warmed up. You got the new tongue. You ready to break in here in Trenton? You're all set to go? Insert it this afternoon. It's all good. Elliot, we are in Trenton. We're right down the street, CFB Trenton. We say thank you to all the men and women, the brave men and women that help defend our borders each and every day. We give them a nod as we kick off another edition of 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Now, when we think of Trenton and we think of hockey Jaina Hefford comes to mind certainly right away we think of all the big moments that Jaina was involved in internationally on behalf of Canada we think about her work with the PWHPA we may also

think of someone like Mel Bridgman who went first overall Philadelphia Flyers 1975 was the first ever general manager of the Ottawa Senators at the tender age of 36 as well. And if he hadn't been stripped of the captaincy by Pat Quinn, would have been involved in what I think would have been the first captain for captain trade when he went from Philadelphia to Calgary in exchange for Brad Marsh. Pat Quinn ruined what would have been an outstanding little bit of trivia, but Bill Barber would have been the captain at that point. And I know that Elliot loves it when I present arcane junior hockey trivia to him. So George Ferguson, we're getting the nods and some applause. George Ferguson was born and raised here in Trenton. When he was a junior, and he was a

really good NHL, he played on a line in toronto with claire thompson i think lanny mcdonald would have been the line he was drafted by the oshawa generals when he was traded elliot to the toronto marlboros who was he traded for i have no idea because what elliot is trying to say i confess i came completely unprepared for this question. This one is one of your eyeball rolls. He was traded for Sean Avery's dad, Al Avery. That is the most minute little bit of trivia you're going to hear on the podcast today, Elliot. I think. I could have guessed five million hockey players, and I would not have come up with Al Avery's name.

So thanks for beginning the show by embarrassing me in front of this audience, Jeff. Much appreciated. That's what we like to do to each other here on the podcast. Okay, so kicking off with news of the day. And you were working last night along with Anthony Stewart and David Amber during the Toronto-Montreal preseason game. Not so much you can drag out of that game, but one thing before we get to it, the Razman-Sandin contract extension.

It is two years. The AAV is 1.4, to which you say what? Because that's what they wanted him at originally, right? Yes. If I could go back and rewrite my tweet from the morning, I would have said, instead of Sundeen trying to get more out of them, he smartly signed. I wish I would have said, instead of trying to get more out of them he smartly signed I wish I would have said instead of trying to get more

out of them he smartly signed even though the Maple Leafs suffered two defensive injuries tonight and their defense does look a little bit decimated right now I don't think Toronto was going to bend on Rasmus Sandin like he had a choice he could take two years at 1.4 million a piece, or he could take one year at somewhere between 900,000 and a million. And to be honest, if it was me, I would have taken the one year. I would have bet on myself on one year and I would have said, I don't like everything that's happened here, but I'm going to come, I'm going to have a great year. And then suddenly things are going to start to shift my way. And I'm going to remember this. year. And then suddenly things are going to start to shift my way. And I'm going to remember this.

He decided not to go that route. He went for the two year contract. But if he had said, oh, well, now you guys are really screwed. So you're going to have to give me, say, two times 1.7 for argument's sake. I don't think Toronto would have done it. I think Toronto would have gone out and they would have tried to find somebody else. Whether it's a player on a tryout somewhere else or a free agent who might be skating somewhere

or maybe a low-level trade, I think Toronto was telling Sandin, look, we are not budging on this. This is our offer, 2 times 1.4, and if it's not you, we're going to go get somebody else. The other thing here we've talked about, and we have talked about this a lot. If you heard this podcast you've heard this a lot and that is that when this all began and you've made this point Sandin's biggest issue was he didn't see a ton of opportunity

in front of him he thought he was jammed up and blocked well now you've got defensemen dropping that excuse is no longer there and I think some fans could look at it and say, yay, we understand you're blocked, but you're not blocked anymore. And this is a huge season for him. It was enough. It was time to come in and play. And I think he saw all the running on the wall, and he said, it's enough of this. It's time to play. And I do think at some level, you do say to your teammates,

okay, I see what's going on around here i'm needed and i don't think that's a small thing there comes to a point where you've got to say all right i'm not squeezing another dollar out of them it's time to show up you know one of the questions i think we'll get a little bit later on so i might as well get to it now is uh as we're talking about the toronto maple east you know one of the things I'm sure that you get plenty, and we all do, is how do we think they'll do this year? Are they a better team than last year? Kyle Dubas without a contract

extension, what does that mean for him? What does that mean for the Maple Leafs? Do you have a snapshot right now in your head on where the Maple Leafs are at and project out how they now fit into the Atlantic? They're banged up. You know, they're going to start the year without Tavares.

They're going to start the year without Lilligren. They might start the year without Engvall. Like, that's the one thing to me that's really interesting is how is this all going to look? Like, one of the things I thought that was going to happen today is I thought now that they had Sandin signed, I thought they were going to sign Zach Aston-Reese. You know, he's in there on a tryout offer, and I thought he was going Sandin signed, I thought they were going to sign Zach Aston-Reese. You know, he's in there on a tryout offer, and I thought he was going to get signed, and from what I understand,

they still have to wait this out and, for example, see where some of these injuries stand. Like, to me, I think they're going to be okay in the regular season. I just think they're a good enough team that they will be fine in the regular season unless the goaltending completely caves in. And look, we've got back-to-back shutouts from Samsonov and Murray, so you can award the Vezina Trophy to Toronto already after three exhibition games. I don't like to overreact to anything that I see in the first week of preseason.

I always say the players who matter don't care until week two. So I don't like to overreact to anything in week one, but if there's one thing I don't like for Toronto right now, they're starting really banged up. So you were talking about something last night on TV in one of the intermissions. You said you didn't watch last night.

I said I watched. No, I watched the game part, but then I was flipping back to the Blue Jay game to see if Judge could get 61. So you weren't watching the intermissions? I don't know if you know this, but I don't really watch you a lot on television, Ellie. You hear me enough on podcast and on radio to watch me on TV. I don't know if you know this, but I don't really watch you a lot on television, Elliot. You hear me enough on podcast and on radio. You don't need to watch me on TV.

I don't think I'm alone, Elliot Freeman. Defensemen go down last night for the Toronto Maple Leafs. And, you know, one of the things you talked about in the intermission was it's the preseason. This is exhibition hockey. Why not expand the roster? Let other defensemen come in, even though they're not on the game sheet. Why not let them come in and try?

Has that ever been discussed? Yes, it was discussed at a general manager's meeting a few years ago, and it was suggested by the Chicago Blackhawks, and where they said, never mind exhibition season, they said any game, if you have an injury, you should be able to replace the player with a player who's not dressed and their argument was we're paying some of these guys who aren't playing hundreds of thousands of dollars a year why shouldn't we get to use them and i like the idea i thought it was creative it went like nowhere like nobody was interested in it

but i'm watching the exhibition game last night and and they're playing Yarncroke on defense. They're playing Kerfoot on defense. And the other thing, like, look who else was in the lineup who could have had to play more minutes. Like, you're sitting here. Games don't even matter for two weeks. And you've got Riley out there, and you've got Brody out there, and you've got Giordano out there.

And if you're Sheldon Keefe and Dubas and the rest of the Maple Leafs, you're thinking, God forbid one of them gets hurt. Like like Giordano took a shot on the second last shift and you're sitting there and saying what if he gets hurt so they have five or six defensemen that are still kids that are down there why not throw them in the lineup for two periods like I don't see the big deal so I was talking to someone with the team today and did they completely dump all over the idea no but they brought up a point and they said, you know, we saw the intermission last night and it's an interesting point, but he said, you're looking at injuries both ways because you're looking at players, you've taken two players out of the lineup. So there's going to be increased minutes. So to your point, the chance

of injury is that much more greater for the players that have to take those minutes. But he said, also, don't forget the idea of just throwing someone in cold, the chance for injury is pretty big on that guy too. His only point was, we understand it, but either way, you're looking at the potential for injuries. Yeah, okay. I mean, you come with a lot of terrible ideas. It's not your worst one.

It's not even mine. The thing is, a lot of the players too, they're working out during games, and you also have the intermission. You could come out for a skate. I don't know if I'm buying that one as much. I did have one player say to me that he kind of wants to see it happen because he says there's some players that won't be playing on a night,

and they'll go have a big meal, like a giant roast beef sandwich or something like that. And he would love to see someone who's like a giant roast beef sandwich or something like that. And he would love to see someone who's had a giant roast beef sandwich try to play right after eating something like that. And would they barf all over the ice after eating something like that? That's the response I got on that one.

But my ideas are stupid. Right, gotcha. From the Montreal end, Philippe Michard looked really good last night. I think that Owen Beck looks real good. That's a real good pick for the Montreal end, Philip Machar looked really good last night. I think that Owen Beck looks real good. That's a real good pick for the Montreal Canadiens. They didn't have much of a lineup there last night. But some of those kids, man,

I thought Beck looked good. I thought Machar looked good. You guys talked a lot about Jack Eye. I know he's got everybody. Actually, there was a Canadiens fan here tonight who was asking me about Jack Eye. I'll tell you something about this kid. His name is Arbor Jack Eye, and he's from Hamilton.ilton yeah played with the kitchen arrangers and finished up with the bulldogs

and he signed his non-restricted free agent before last season and you know he's one of those guys every team used to have 10 guys like that and now there's barely 10 guys like that in the league that when he's on the ice you have to watch out for him. He drove Ottawa crazy in the rookie camp. He hits people. He goes after people. He's very aggressive. He's going to play for them. I think the question is going to be how quickly is he going to play for them?

I think that kid is really, really interesting. He took an I don't give an F pill years ago. He'll take runs at vets. Yeah. You know who he's kind of like in some regards? He's kind of like the winner of the Calder Trophy last year.

Sider? Yeah. Because Sider is the kid who comes in, and it doesn't matter if you're a 10-year pro or another rookie, he'll take a run at you. There's some more at Sider there. You know, and one of the things too, and it's happened in this conversation with someone before the show tonight, right now in the NHL

if you can't skate, you can't play. You're not in. And you look at the elite level skaters that come through minor or youth hockey now. Everybody can skate. One of the things when I would go to the top prospects game every year I'd go to the first practice and I'd always say the same thing. Where did the badaters go like where they're used to like every team i have yeah

you know what he's they're sitting on your left that's where the bad skater is but like they're not there anymore the one thing now where you can really distinguish yourself and get noticed and get a solid spot in the nhL because everyone's got skill. Everybody moves. Everyone's got grit. Everybody can shoot the puck. The guy who's tough now, that's the guy that gets noticed. We've for so long now put the coming out of the, even going back to the locket of 0405,

coming to that, what was it all about? Foot speed, foot speed, foot speed, foot speed. Everybody skates now. What distinguishes you? That's what we're talking about, Jack guy. Well, I think in the regular season, you don't see it all the time, but in the playoffs now, everybody's tough. And we've talked about this Tampa and Colorado last year. There were no passengers in that series and there were no room for passengers in that series. If you want to win the Stanley cup in this league now, I don't care how big you are, short you are,

thick you are, thin you are, you have to be tough. And everybody has to be tough. Which brings us to one of the topics we were going to talk about, and that is preseason hitting. You brought up Meshar. So by the way, on him, because I mentioned this on the podcast not too long ago,

what I wonder about is if, because I still think that ultimately he ends up with the Kitchener Rangers. I just wonder if they send him to Laval first. Like, I wonder if they give him the full experience. Here's NHL hockey. Here's the American League. It's a lot closer to the NHL that you think. Maybe the right thing is Kitchener Rangers. We'll see. We'll see you there. We'll see. So I want to talk about preseason hitting because there were a couple of things last night. Your guy, Mishar, you mentioned from Montreal, he cut to the middle. Yeah.

And I looked at that, and he could have been clobbered. And it was Curtis Douglas. Six foot eight? Six foot nine? Big guy for the Maple Leafs, and he peeled off. He didn't do it. Yep. He didn't do it.

Okay? Now, there was another game last night, Arizona-Anaheim, where Jan Janik hammered Trevor Zegers. Waiting for John Gibson's debut. We saw Anthony Stolarz last night in San Jose. Oh, what a hit on Zegers. What a hit. He's down. The Ducks don't like it.

And Adam Henrique is going to go after the Arizona player and throw some punches. Oh, my. That's a real barn burner there. And the officials let him go. That's Jan Janić. And I think it was a clean hit. Do you disagree? It's a totally clean hit.

Neutral zone. He cut to the middle, and he got caught. Now, there was a lot of reaction to this. Zegers, by the way, Dallas Aikens, the Anaheim coach, kind of said, we've got some more testing, we'll know more Friday, but I know there was optimism, he was going to be okay. But that unleashed a big debate on hitting in the preseason. And my opinion on this is Yannick, the Arizona kid who made the hit,

he's trying to make the team. He's trying to make the team. He's trying to make the team. Was the play dirty? No. We both agree no. So I can't fault him for making that hit. I can't fault him for making that hit at all. Now, I got a call today from one of the team owners of the NHL. We were talking about this exact play.

And he said, you know, I know it wasn't dirty, and I know the kid's trying to make the NHL but he said what you're going to start to hear more about is how does this help us if you're an owner you're saying how does this help us having Trevor Zegers out yes Anaheim's a team they're rebuilding if you want to get fans into the building, they want to watch Trevor Zegers. And he's saying, like, how is this helpful for the Ducks and the NHL to have Zegers out in a preseason game? And, you know, I said, okay, I get it.

I do. Like, I know last year that there were owners in the NHL who were unhappy in the playoffs about what happened to Sidney Crosby. It was a clean hit, I thought, from Trouba. I didn't think he deserved to be suspended. But there were owners who were talking like, how does this help our game if Sidney Crosby's knocked out of the playoffs?

I don't have a good answer to this question because I don't think you can tell that kid Yannick not to make the play. He's trying to make the NHL. But I understand the point of view here. I think we've all entertained this question. I think we've all talked about it. Stars getting hit. And we've all talked about, is it good that, to your point, Trouba catches Crosby like that, or Trevor Zegers gets hurt in a relatively meaningless exhibition game, Arizona and Anaheim.

The only thing that I keep coming back to on this one, because I don't think there's going to be any rule changes for different players, and you're not going to nerf any hockey player. No one's getting bubble-wrapped out there. I know a lot of agents, certainly when it's their bowl that gets gored, we'll talk about hands off the stars, hands off the stars. Everyone's eligible to be hit when you're out there. When you have the puck, you're eligible to be hit.

That's hockey. The only thing that I can think of is this has to happen if you want to sort of have a hands-off policy around the stars. I think that needs to happen within the NHL Players Association. I think that needs to happen amongst the players. I mean, you and I are from the Gretzky era, and we're going to talk to Paul Coffey here in a second. And the players are like, look, don't go after Gretzky. This guy's the golden goose.

Don't go after Crosby. What good is it in the NHL if you go after Nathan McKinnon or you go after Conor McDavid and he can't play for six months or if you go after Leon Dreissel or any of the stars? The only thing that I can think of, Freed, is it happens at the player's level, where they all understand, this is why we all make money. Because these guys are in the lineup, not us.

Yeah, like I said, I don't have an easy answer for this one, and I wanted to present it to everybody, because I'm thinking about the kid in Arizona, and I'm saying, if that's me, I'm probably doing the same thing. So I don't want to come on here and be a hypocrite at least not in this particular case because I would probably do the same thing the kid did I look at what's happened in the NFL with the quarterbacks like they realized that the quarterbacks were the big money makers and they found ways to protect them yeah I just don't know how you could do that in the NHL like what are

you gonna do like okay Sidney Crosby you're only allowed to hit you can't hit him below the knees like Tom Brady or something there's only certain zones where you can hit there's only certain zones you can hit them in so i don't have a good answer to this one and by the way arizona anaheim like suddenly talk about two teams that just despise each other out of nowhere here's the problem by the way as an aside on that you know what the problem with that is what's that because we all know what happened last year with uh with troy terry and jay beagle we all remember that the problem is they don't play each other till january 24th there's not enough rivalry games this year like calgary edmonton three times we got to fix that how many times you've ever said i can't wait to see the coyotes play the ducks

well we're there it's weird for each but we're there yes they really don't like each other and you know the thing is too is that like first of all i just wonder if the next game anaheim We're there. It's weird for each, but we're there. Yes, they really don't like each other. And, you know, the thing is, too, is that, like, first of all, I just wonder if the next game Anaheim plays Arizona, Verbeek's going to dress himself. Like, he's going to go out there. And Dallas Aikens will because he was tough, too. Dallas Aikens, tough guy, too. Like, they're going to go out there and handle it.

But you are trying to build a culture, and I guarantee you both those teams like standing up for themselves and each other. Yeah. I guarantee it. But, anyway anyway I wanted to put it out there maybe some people will think I'm wishy-washy that I don't have a great answer but I don't have a great answer do you have a great answer about the salary cap now you wrote a piece with Roy Boylan a couple of days ago at our website sportsnet.ca talking about the salary cap and the impending rise of it and according to your piece some good news on the horizon so 82.5 this year yeah up to 83.5 next year yeah and then a bump 87.5 to 88 and then up to 92 and 25 26 yeah so you know there were a lot of con big contracts being given out nathan McKinnon, the big one, 12.6.

Spencer Knight, and we're going to talk about that. That was a big eyebrow raiser this week, 4.5. We know that Matthew's going to sign for $11 billion in about 10 months. 14 or 15. Maybe both. Maybe it's 29. It'll be big. It'll be big.

And one of the things I was starting to do was kind of ask around and say, like, how do you guys know what you're doing? Are you guys sure? Like, how can you know what you're doing? And then lips start to loosen. And, you know, you start with the bribery and you get people to kind of talk to you a little bit. And, you know, some teams just said, look, like we've been given some projections. And there's no guarantees, but those are the projections, as you mentioned.

And one of the things I'm kind of wondering about, I have to think that on some level, the league and the Players Association kind of worked on this together. Like a few years ago, the NBA, they had a similar situation where because of their TV deals, there was going to be like a huge bump in one year. And they redid their deal and they smoothed it out over a couple of years.

So I kind of wonder if there was some work together instead of going one, one, say 10, then you go one, one, and then you talk about, was it four and a half, five and a half, like we have here. See, the one question, that same person that i talked to

with a with a team this morning asked this question where is the new money coming from is it at the club level is it at the league the league level tv tv is one the jersey sponsorships is it that significant i think the jersey spot like i'm trying to figure out and i know some people really hate them look i don't think they'd be here this quickly if it wasn't for COVID. COVID changed the dynamics, and that's what we're doing here. I have to tell you something. I watched the milk one on the Leaf jersey last night, and I actually didn't think it was that intrusive.

I know some people really hate them. I get it. There's enough things to get worked up about. I don't get worked up about that. But I do think between the TV numbers and the jersey sponsorships and the helmet stuff too, they're looking at things that they weren't really willing to do before. And obviously they feel that they're going to get there. You mentioned Spencer Knight.

Let's do that contract. So Spencer Knight got a three-year deal worth $4.5 million per year from florida this week and the panthers took some heat over it i think you know he for having 14 and a half million dollars worth of goaltenders well i think it was more like just the knight contract specifically because he hasn't played because he hasn't played a ton like he's a really talented guy and if you were to tell me he was to play at a level where he deserved to be paid like that i don't think anybody would be surprised but it was fast like if you're boston and you've got jeremy swayman oh boy you're looking at that and saying uh-oh like that's a problem for us and you know the thing that's interesting about this one is so sergey bobroski has two years left before his no trade

clause becomes a partial no trade and the actual money really and the money drops like after two more seasons he signed a 70 million dollar contract 58 million of it will be paid and that will be after the first year of spencer knight's contract so if there's ever a time florida is going to pay someone to take borovsky off their hands, it's going to be then. So that is the time to look at this. The other thing is, is that I had heard from another team that what they told me is that they believed that everybody thought Jake Ottinger was going to come in around the $5 million range. So he thinks, and this is what this GM told me, he thinks that Florida was negotiating the deal with Ottinger at five. So you got Ottinger at five, and then Knight comes in around four and a half. And Ottinger came in

at four. And I think that's a situation where Ottinger said, look, I'm not missing time. Get the deal done. I'm not missing time. Then what do you do? Like you're stuck. Because like say you've got a valuable employee, okay? Let's just say I think that you're a valuable employee, okay?

I know it's a stretch, but let's just say- I'm waiting for it. I think it. And let's just say I've got another employee, and I say to employee B, we've got a deal, say, where I'm going to pay you $10 million. Okay? And then I strike a deal with employee B-

Still a bargain. Still a bargain. That's less than $10 million. And I say, well, you know what? I settled with him or her at eight million i can't give you 10 anymore you're gonna look at me and you're gonna say not a freaking chance it doesn't matter what they did you had agreed you were gonna pay me x and this is what this this gm said to me he thinks happened like he said it was a really tough spot to be in and he said

that's it i've been in that spot before and suddenly you're telling someone that okay we're working on this but now we're going to pay you this. Doesn't work. It's weird because I just thought all these goaltenders like Spencer Knight, Jake Ottinger were all just going to negotiate off the Carter Hart deal. It was all going to be variations of the Carter Hart deal and that was

going to be the benchmark. So to be having an eyeball on Jake Ottinger if you're Bill Zito in Florida, that's an interesting one too. Yeah, I didn't ask Zito about this, but this is what another GM told me. I think it's a good theory. We interrupt this program to bring you a special report.

Okay, we can't talk about the Dallas Stars. Wait, wait. First of all, we should say talk about the Dallas Stars. Wait, wait. First of all, we should say people who are audiophiles are going to listen to this and say, the audio is not the same. These guys are trying to pull a fast one on me. Yes, it's true. There was something I forgot to mention in the live pod I wanted to stick in,

so we're sticking it in later. And that is this. I swore that we wouldn't do Jason Robertson updates every podcast, and I've broken my promise outside of one podcast. Jason Robertson, what's the latest? You know, I've been sticking with three times seven and a half, three times seven and a half, three times seven and a half is my prediction. And someone said to me, there's one thing you're forgetting about in all this. And I said, what's that?

And he says, Jason Robertson has five years to UFA because of his birthday, not four. So the Dallas Stars, and if they want, the agents have a little extra time or different time to play in here. And he said he wouldn't be surprised for that reason if the Stars and Robertson aren't looking at four or six-year deals. Like everybody knows about the possibility of eight, but he said that four makes a lot more sense than three, and there's also the possibility of six. So what I think is going on here is watch if anything happens with Anton Khudobin. Like, does Dallas keep him, or do they move him? And if they move him, there's a couple teams that think that that means that they're going for bigger term.

So if Khudobin goes, that's an indication they're close on Robertson? I don't want to say close, but it's an indication that they think they can do something for longer term. Now, back to our program. All right, I want to finish up with something we've been talking a lot about, specifically this week. And I was too young for it. I week. And I was too young for it. I was three.

Elliot was too young for it. He was two. Yeah. But many people here have vivid memories, and it's burned into their hockey DNA, and they will forever tell this story. It's one of those where were you stories. Paul Henderson scores game eight. 1972.

Knew that was coming. Knew that was coming. Knew that was coming. And Canada beats the Soviets in the Summit Series. We saw the celebration last night at the Toronto-Montreal game. We've all talked plenty about this. There have been books written. There have been documentaries made. I don't know that there's been a bigger event in Canadian sports than 72 Game 8 at Lugnicki.

Where are you at on the entire tournament right now? Well, I just wanted to say that, first of all, I was texting with a couple people who were part of the celebration last night. And first of all, they said they were extremely well treated, which is the most important thing. And, you know, the Leafs came out in the red Team Canada jerseys, and the Canadians came out in the white Team Canada jerseys, and they were beautiful. It was really nice to see. But the one thing that really stood out to I think a lot of people was, you know, you look there, John Ferguson, Jr. We normally just call him John Ferguson now. But for the purposes of this, John Ferguson Jr. was in Toronto representing his father, and Brian Glennie's daughter was there representing Brian.

And you start to realize that as we get older, this may be the last time you see this team together. In any significant way. In any significant way. And the Paul Henderson thing is I've gotten older and I'm 52 now. I have leaned more and more that Paul Henderson should be in the Hockey Hall of Fame. And I know all of the arguments against it. It was only three games and three games does not make a career.

Canada is the biggest hockey country in the world. And that was the biggest hockey moment. And arguably the most clutch sporting performance in the history. And that was the biggest hockey moment and arguably the most clutch sporting performance in the history of this country. It's not like anything else. And I think he should be in the Hockey Hall of Fame. I do. I think as I've gotten older, I believe it more and more strongly. He should be in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Hey, if you want to say we're going to put the whole team in the Hockey Hall of Fame, I'm good with that. going to put the whole team in the hockey hall of fame i'm good with that i'm we above me 100 times out of 100 but i think henderson should be in i love that idea by the way putting teams in like that

you know 70 i think 76 had the most hall of famers on it and that was my first big one i think that was your first big tournament too we've've all entertained this thought, I think. What do you think would have happened to Canadian hockey if they would have lost game eight? You know, I don't, like the thing is, Six-five, man. You know what the problem is, Jeff, is that, like I said, I'm 52. I'm still too young to understand how big that was.

As we get older and the world becomes more connected, we don't recognize how different the world was at that was. As we get older and the world becomes more connected, we don't recognize how different the world was at that time. I cannot comprehend a world really where there was that much, I don't say ignorance meanly, but ignorance because you just didn't know anything about the people on that side of the world and the people who were there like you just didn't know like for people who are old enough to remember it was like your whole way of life was being threatened because you got embarrassed in game one and almost lost this hockey series like i don't think we can as two guys who were too young to witness it i don't think we can accurately convey

it but but you but the whole country stopped you've spoken to people that were involved in it like listen like i just talked like two days ago i talked to bill waters okay someone brought up i think it was in our london show someone you still talk to bill waters and it's funny too because i was driving to kitchener and bill called i'm like wow say hello to fate i hadn't talked to bill for a few weeks and i mentioned to him we had a nice chat. And we started talking about 1970s. Like, you've talked to people that were around that team.

You've talked to the athletes that were involved. You've talked to members of the coaching staff. How many times you had a conversation with Harry Sinden, for example. Like, we've all talked to everyone who was around it. Are you not able to at least form, some idea of of the gravity of this yes tournament and what it meant to them and what it meant to can't like you don't have to experience it yourself i think we're still understating it like i i remember in 1997 was the 10-year anniversary of 87 so i was doing a piece for i was working at the score at that time. We did a piece on 25 years of 72 versus 10 years of 87,

which was bigger. And we interviewed Marcel Dion and on camera, he was really polite and he got off camera and the microphone went off for me. He goes, are you kidding? Like what a stupid piece. What is bigger? 25 or 25 of 72 or 10 of 87.

He goes, I wouldn't even air this this it's such a dumb idea of course 72 was bigger and i looked at him i said you couldn't have said that while the camera was rolling on you he goes i i didn't want to insult you on camera i offered to actually put him back on camera and insult the idea but he wouldn't do it. Like, 87 was the best hockey I ever saw. Same. You know, I mean, we're going to talk to Paul Coffey. He's playing 84.

I still remember watching that play in my basement. The goal of breaking up the two-on-one. Breaking up the two-on-one. I always think about that play first. But 72, like, for people like ourselves who are too young to understand it, we cannot adequately convey what was at stake like i remember like a relative of mine has told me the two two of the biggest things they remember when they were young were 72 and the moon landing those are the two biggest

things they remember being around their tv man on the moon and paul henderson now i gotta think somewhere neil armstrong is in somebody's hall of fame so paul henderson now i gotta think somewhere neil armstrong is in somebody's hall of fame so paul henderson should be too okay let me ask you this well we'll close on this do you have a thought on because if you talk to a lot of the russian athletes yeah they'll tell you the win like he i remember talking i can't remember who it was talking to someone who's on the old leaf lunch show with billy and saying actually it was Agi Kuklovich, I believe. The interpreter. The interpreter. And he said something along the lines of, there were two wins here. From

the Canadian side of things, you guys all focus on game eight and, you know, Henderson takes a stab at it and he scores and trech acts. He said, from the Soviet side, it's game one in the Montreal Forum. Cause that's when the Soviets showed that they could play with NHLers. Well, I think they gained an incredible amount of respect. That's the one that they hang on to. That was their win, was game one in Montreal. You know, okay, I have to tell everybody here something, and I hope I'm not telling this out of school, but I don't care.

Jeff, back there before, we're sitting there, we're having our delicious salads, don't care jeff back there before we're sitting there we're having our delicious salads and he's saying to me that the soviets really won the series because of game one and i'm like that is the worst ever like yes they gave it but they didn't win the series they lost the series they lost the series yes they didn't win four games can Canada won four games. They won the series. But from capital H, hockey. The knock against the Soviets was always, well, they never play against the NHLers.

Our guys will walk all over them. And they showed that that wasn't true. I see that as a huge win. No, they gained a ton of respect. We always knew that they, we learned after that that they were legit. And the other thing too is, I remember Ilya Kovalchuk talking about how

he always wanted to wear 17 and he couldn't wear it for the national team so he always wore 71 because it was for Harlem Oven. I think it was him who said it. I can't remember if it was him but it was one of the Russian players. They said to me once like we're talking about that series and I said,

in Canada, we think if Orr and Howell were there, they would have won all eight games. And he rolled his eyes and he said, don't forget, you guys knocked out Harlem off too, so we consider ourselves even. It's a fascinating one. Trust me, here we are 50 years later, and the conversations about this two-team challenge will continue, as will...

Do you have a final thought before we hit the break and let everyone get fed? and the conversations about this two-team challenge will continue, as will... Do you have a final thought before we hit the break and let everyone get fed? No, I don't like to prevent people from eating, so I'm going to stop. We don't want to stand in Trenton at Boston Pizza. This is after the entire show tonight, Elliot. There's a couple of things we did want to mention, so we're staying a little bit later to address them. And they both involve the Vancouver Canucks.

And we'll start with Francesco Aquilini and the accusations of child abuse. This comes out in court filings. Allegation by the Aquilini for adult children. This is during a hearing determining whether Aquilini should extend child support for three of his four children. Some disturbing accusations. The NHL says they'll monitor the situation.

I mean, Jeff, it's awful to read for a lot of obvious reasons. And for me, some personal ones, too, which I'm not going to get into. But it was awful to read it. And every time you see something like this, the first thing that goes through my head is I hope it's not true simply because that should never happen to children. That's always my first reaction. And Francesco Aquilini released a statement to Sportsnet, but this is going to have to be addressed publicly. You know, I've been witness to some really ugly divorces and I'm very sympathetic to everyone involved because I know how painful they are, but I don't want to ramble on this. I just want to say there has to be a

public explanation of why these accusations may not be credible. I think we have to have that and sooner rather than later. Okay, also with the Vancouver Canucks, and there's no way to make an appropriate turn in a situation like this, but there's talk, there's rumors that Rachel Dorey is no longer working with the Vancouver Canucks. And you reached out for comment? I reached out to the Vancouver Canucks and was told no comment about her status. I asked if she was still employed with the team and was told no comment as well. We can all recall Bruce Boudreau mentioning that she was becoming part of the coaching staff. Patrick Johnson wrote the piece in the province about her role with the Vancouver Canucks. Again, neither side is saying anything right now

everyone's being really quiet which leads me to believe Elliot that there's there's a story here and probably not a small one I think it story will continue to evolve and it is weird like Jeff one week you're going on the bench and the coach says it and a week later you're not there it's strange very strange you wanted to comment on this meals yeah we didn't mention it last time, and it's my fault. I forgot. I wanted to mention Jennifer Smeel.

The Canucks released news last week that she passed away after a battle with cancer. And, you know, one story I just wanted to share. You know, everybody knows how tough Stan S Smeal was as a player and how proud he was to be a Vancouver Canuck well I think even he would agree that his toughness as a player paled in comparison to Jennifer Smeal's toughness in in dealing with what she'd been through for almost the last decade someone told me this week that um they remembered when jennifer smill was diagnosed and it wasn't always very optimistic and uh you know they just said that it's just emblematic of the family

and the couple and the way they were and and the way they are that she fought a lot longer than I think a lot of people expected was going to be able to happen. And I'm glad they got a lot of time together. I really am. And it's hard and it's painful. And a lot of people are hurting. But someone asked me to mention that Jennifer Smiel showed a lot of courage in what she went through because the odds were very difficult from the moment that she was diagnosed. Our condolences to the Smiel family.