32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Turmoil in Tampa

Episode Date: September 22, 2023

Could Steven Stamkos be pushed out of Tampa? Jeff and Elliotte react to recent comments made by Lightning GM Julien BriseBois and captain Steven Stamkos (1:00). They break down the Tanner Pearson trade (17:23) and look at Shane Pinto's future in Ottawa (22:00). They also provide updates for Devon Toews in Colorado (27:13) and Backlund and Kylington in Calgary (31:47). Plus, the possibility of William Nylander playing center in Toronto (34:40). The guys answer your questions in the Montana’s Thought Line (47:35) and sit down with Oilers defenseman Mattias Ekholm (55:34) and Oilers Head Coach Jay Woodcroft (1:13:03).Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Montana's Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and Jordan McRae, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Audio Credits: Fox 13 Tampa Bay, ABC Action News Tampa The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

I'm new to hockey. I don't know much. Are right-hand shot centers valuable in this National Hockey League that you talked about? Is that a big deal, Elliot? I think that's a very, very good question for a newbie such as yourself. Well, we'll start the podcast, Elliot, again with a bombshell. This one out of Tampa. Welcome to 32 Thoughts. Jeff Merrick alongside Elliot Friedman. Stephen Stamkos saying recently he's disappointed in a lack of negotiations between his camp and Julian Brisebois, general manager of the Tampa Bay Lightning. Julian Brisebois, after paying obligatory respects to his captain, mused about wanting to take some time to gather more information

before he makes decisions on Stephen Stamkos' future and the team's future. It's not just about Stephen playing out his career in Tampa. It's about Stephen staying in Tampa and the Lightning remaining a legitimate Stanley Cup contender year in, year out for the remainder of his tenure as a player on the club. In order for, like, Steven and I share the common goal of bringing the Cup back to Tampa. That's our objective.

In order for us to do that in future years, we're going to need to spend our cap dollars as wisely as possible. In order for me to do that, I feel like I need to gather more information. I need to see how this season plays out. Yeah, no, to be honest, I've been disappointed in the lack of talk in that regard.

So it was something that I expressed at the end of last year that I wanted to get something done before training camp started. There haven't been any conversations. So I'm ready whenever. So I guess that was something that I didn't see coming, but it is what it is. Boom, Elliot, boom. At the beginning of training camp.

That's a big boom. Yeah, a couple. It's not quite the big bang, but it's a big boom. No, it's not starting in the universe. For Stamkos to go public like that, and he was measured. He was very measured. That was not a pot boiling over. That was not fury.

That was not a volcano. That was calm, measured disappointment. But for Stamkos to do it that publicly in that way I think that just shows how upset he is because it's not his method in the past how often does that guy go public about something that's bothering him almost never so that to me is a big big shot across the bow. A warning about this is how everybody feels. Now, here's where I understand where Stamkos is coming from, Jeff. What do all of these players have in common?

Besides from the fact they're Tampa Bay Lightning. I'm not letting you answer that. Anthony Cirelli, Brandon Hagel, Nikita Kucherov braden point eric chernak victor headman mikhail sergachev and andre vasilevsky all signed to multiple years when uh like when do their contracts expire or when were they signed when were they signed uh recently in the last few years you're still not getting it you are a failing student on this one i'm used to that don't worry they were all signed a year before they became unrestricted free agents all of them were signed in advance and and if you're steven stamkos it's hard not to look at that he is the ultimate team guy he

he you know he is the ultimate team guy he's if the players will go in there will tell you he's a great captain it's a very inclusive room everybody's made to feel part of the team. He's had ups. He's had downs. He doesn't complain about them publicly. He goes about his job, and he's had two of the best years of his career after a lot of people worried that his career would end prematurely. This guy has been through a lot. He's very highly respected.

And I have to admit, if I was in his shoes, and I was looking at those one two three four five six seven eight players and say they all got taken care of a year before they hit free agency and i'm still not and jeff remember the last time he was a for hold on remember don't interrupt me i'm going. You can have the floor in a second. And also, don't forget the last time he was a UFA, he signed, I think, four days. He signed on the Wednesday.

He signed in the middle of that. The big day. That was the big day. P.K. Subban, Taylor Hall, Shea Weber, Maelstrom. He signed right in the middle of that. Yes. But it was four days before free agency began. So that's twice now that he has looked at this and said, why is everybody else getting taken care of and I'm not?

Okay. Now you can talk. Now let me ask you a question there, Smarty Pants. Okay. What is different about Nikita kucherov braden point anthony sorelli victor headman mikhail sergachev and steven stamkos are you going to say they're all younger steven stamkos is 33 okay but i just i just said play into it though i i think it does from you know from tampa bay's point of view, absolutely it does.

Julian Breezebois said it himself. But the point is that this is the second time it's happened. Stamkos signed for the first time when he was 26, I think. So I think it's a fair argument if this was this was the only time but it's the second time and the other thing Jeff is look Stephen Stamkos has never said this the lightning have never said this and that was Steve Eiserman that wasn't Julian Breezebaugh although they are very similar in their negotiation style there was always a feeling that maybe at that time the lightning i don't want i don't necessarily think they wanted stamkos to go but i don't think it was essential for them to keep him

and i've always you know that's the thing we interviewed Stamkos after he signed. In Chicago. And actually that was at the Team Canada camp where we interviewed him. Oh, that wasn't Players Tour in Chicago. No, that was a Team Canada camp. That one, it was in, I want to say, I can't remember if it was, it was Ottawa, I think.

For the 2004 World Cup of Hockey. And one of the things that happened was, Iserman, he made the eight times 8.5 offer, I think, around the World Juniors. This was December, January. And he never budged. And some of that was, we want to have a winning team. And some of that was, you know, it's Florida. You're going to make more money down here.

But I also think it was, there's a limit to what we think your value is. And Stamkos kind of with a laugh admitted that they tried to squeeze more dollars out of Weisserman and he never budged. And I remember people in Tampa telling me they were actually surprised that a little bit that Stamkos took the deal because they knew what Toronto was throwing at them and they knew what Buffalo was throwing at them. And even though Tampa has tax advantages to both those teams, they just thought it would get to a place where they wouldn't be able to compete. But, you know, Stamkos was uncomfortable uh with the Toronto pitch he didn't

like it and you know he just loves Tampa he's proven that that guy loves being a lightning more than anything else and so I like I don't know how Stamkos feels I don't want to put words in his mouth but I know people who are around stamkos and i'm talking about other players they all they all the few of them told me that there was this underlying belief around them that tampa wouldn't be crushed if he left and i don't know how stamkos feels again i want to say this 50 times i don't want to put words in his mouth but i just wonder what he's thinking when he sees all of those lightning players getting taken care of. And now for the second time, he's going into a season and Breezewalk kind of indicated, and this can always change. Like,

that's the one thing I've heard people say, oh, we're not going to negotiate during the season. And it changes. Like sometimes that does change, but if it does go that way it's going to be the second time he's seen basically everyone else taken care of around him and him not being given that luxury and all i can say i can only judge others as i judge myself and i know i would be like jeff what's going on here there's a few things here with with stamp coast unlike you i don't want to put words in my mouth. All I can do is explain what is in front of our eyes and what we've heard and what we've seen.

And we're in a situation now where after these Stamkos remarks, we're looking back on where Stamkos has been at various times with the Tampa Bay Lightning organization. You mentioned that last negotiation with Eisman not coming off a certain decimal point. And, you know, the Stamkos camp, Newport, trying to squeeze a couple more dollars out of Tampa. That wasn't going to happen.

We know that at various times there hasn't exactly been, I don't know, a silky smooth relationship between the player and the coach. And now there's this latest barrage of comments. I think the, you know, gather more information wasn't, I don't imagine that was received well in the Stamkos camp. He's 33 years old. He's been a number one overall draft pick. He's poured it all out for the Tampa Bay Lightning.

How much more information do you need to gather about Stephen Stamkos at this point and to your further point here he goes again into the final year of a contract without an extension sitting there at the end of it it does seem as if at various points of Stamkos's career with Tampa it's been challenging, trying to give it a soft landing here, awkward. And now he's up against, as we've seen before, most notably by, you know, letting the Ryan McDonough's of the world leave. He's going up against a general manager who makes, much like his predecessor, Steve Eiserman, cutthroat, ruthless decisions that are completely made with the emotion removed 100%. That's the dynamic we're looking at here between these two camps. Well, I think you're right.

Breeze was a killer. And I say that with respect about how he approaches his job. As you said, he removes emotion and he's all about winning. How about the Lightning are all about winning. Look, two years ago, they won the Stanley Cup and they basically said to Ryan McDonough, we got to move you. It's like the next day. Yeah.

You're going to have to play ball with us or else we're gonna make really tough decisions so like so you know you're right like like the way the lightning look at this is whenever steven stamkos retires and i've heard and i've heard and again if i'm wrong, Stamkos will let me know. I have heard Stamkos wants to play 20 years. That would be five more years. And I think he really wants those 20 years to be in Tampa. I think he would like to go 20 years,

puck drop to retirement with the Lightning. And I would hesitate to handicap that right now. I don't know what the chances are. But i do believe he wants to play 20 years and i think the lightning are going to look at it and they're going to say to him look you're going to be a lightning forever when you're done you're getting your number retired and we will give you any honor but that doesn't mean we're going to let you get there at a number we don't think is reasonable. And here's the other thing too, and this is the big debate and you mentioned it. It's aging curves.

And I think we all understand that, Jeff, but let me ask you something. If a guy was going to market as an unrestricted free agent, 42 goals and 106 points the year before, 34 goals and 84 points last year, so he's got 190 points in his last 162 games. Two years ago in the playoffs, he had 19 points in 23 games, 11 goals, and last year he had four points in six games against the Maple Leafs. What do you think that player is getting on the open market?

He's getting a lot. He might not be getting the term, but he's getting the number. He's getting the number. He's getting the number. And I think you look around and and here's one here's your spicy take of the day as we get ahead of ourselves here with Stephen Stamkos if you allow a player like that go to market if you're the Florida Panthers who after this season have a lot of salary coming off the books you can offer the same financial incentives

that Tampa can't last time I checked they play in the same state that's pretty juicy i'm not saying it's gonna happen here but while we're kicking back on a thursday if it happens remember you heard it here first if it doesn't happen forget that we ever had this conversation no i'm just sort of throwing that out there like absolutely he's gonna get the number yeah i agree with you i think term will be the issue just as i think term mainly is the issue when you have anybody in their 30s but still he is going to get paid he is going to get the number absolutely and we'll see what kind of season he has you're right you never know what can happen but like i like like i get it i i always judge other people how i judge myself and i I put myself in Stamkos' shoes here, and I'd understand.

I'd understand. But as you said, Brisebois, he's not interested in making friends. He's interested in winning, and he's interested in winning a lot. You know, it's funny. We have, sometimes we talk about how some GMs in this league are killers. I have people who say to me that he might be the biggest one in the league. His track record certainly shows that. And there isn't a thing that he isn't competitive about.

Like, I had one guy who said to me, you know, like, even if you talk about picking the arbitrator for lightning arbitration cases, Breeze was like, I'm getting the best arbitrator arguing for the lightning. Okay, we'll see where this one heads.

Want to also remind everybody, coming up on today's program a little bit later on, you will hear from a couple of people from the Edmonton Oilers. Elliot and I were there earlier this week. You will hear from defenseman Matthias Ekholm. We recorded this interview, by the way, before the news came out that he is suffering from a minor hip issue. But you're going to hear from Matthias Ekholm.

You will also hear from Jay Woodcroft, the head coach of the Edmonton Oilers. And I think it's safe to say, Elliot, because I certainly feel this way. I always look forward to talking to Woodcroft, one of the more thoughtful and most thoughtful coaches around the NHL. And what he talks about specifically is his message

to this team as expectations are at the highest, namely the Stanley Cup. That's coming up a little bit later on. to this team as expectations are at the highest, namely the Stanley Cup. That's coming up a little bit later on. As usual, great answers to terrible questions. We provide the bad questions. You bail us out, Jay, with some wonderful answers. Thank you, sir.

Vancouver, Montreal, earlier this week, consummated trade. Tanner Pearson and a third-round draft pick in exchange for net minder Casey the Smith. And also still to come, the Montana's Thought Line, Montana's Barbecue and Bar, Canada's home for barbecue. More news on the horizon. It's 32 Thoughts. The podcast continues. Again, as we mentioned, thought line questions coming up still to come. We will talk about the two new Cs, the new captains, Elliot, around the NHL,

Brad Marchand in Boston, Braden Shannon, St. Louis. We should probably get into the latest with Shane Pinto for Calgary. We should probably talk about Michael Backlund as well. This will all come up to Von Taves, some issues there with the Colorado Avalanche and Jeff Greenberg goes from the Blackhawks to the Tigers. But in the meantime, we saw a trade this week, Vancouver and Montreal getting together on a trade which we probably thought was inevitable

considering all the acrimony that had built up. Tanner Pearson goes from Vancouver along with a third-round draft pick in exchange for netminder Casey DeSmith. Your thoughts on the Vancouver-Montreal deal? I just think that this was a situation where i just think this is the best thing that could happen to the canucks and to pearson there were a lot of hard feelings last year pearson had to have multiple surgeries on his wrist he was he you know he felt that it was mishandled and caused infection that jeopardized his career and you'll notice this year the Canucks have changed their medical staff. And I just think that it was best if Pearson got a chance to resume his career somewhere else,

which he will get to do now in Montreal. For a time there, it didn't look like Pearson was going to be able to play again. And I think the Canucks kind of counted on that because all of a sudden, when Pearson turned up okay and I'm happy for him that he's going to be able to play, they had too many wingers and they were going to have a cap problem. So I had heard they were looking to move him. They found a place to move him. And I just think, you know, put it this way.

There were a lot of hard feelings here on both sides, and everybody's just better off. De Smith is interesting because I don't think he was crazy about Montreal. How much was he going to play there with Montembeau and Allen there? Allen said on the opening of camp that he hopes to play more this year. So I think from the moment Smith went there, he was hoping to go somewhere else. I think it'll be interesting to see what Vancouver does now.

They're going to have him as the backup to Demko. You know, Spencer Martin, you know, Colorado is looking for a goalie. And Spencer Martin seems to me the kind of guy, depending on how long Fransos is out for, Spencer Martin seems like the kind of guy that Colorado could look at is kind of, you know, give us an option here behind our number one guy. So I'm curious to see if that's a fit at all. But look, it was just because if Pearson didn't get traded, I think the Canucks were considering putting him on waivers.

And if he doesn't get claimed or he ends up in the American Hockey League because they need the extra million in their cap, that's just a story that nobody needed hanging over them. So this, to me, was the best possible solution. Is that why they had to attach one piece to this trade that really upsets some people who say that Vancouver should not be in the getting rid of draft pick business. And that is the third rounder. Well, it was the difference in salary, right?

It was the difference in salary. The premium to get rid of this situation. I think it was more the difference in salary. But do you have a problem with them attaching a third to it? Like there's a lot, like one of the hue and cry. I don't think that many people thought that there was going to be any kind of future with Tanner Pearson in Vancouver. i think that's well told i think what a lot of people are unsettled with is should this be a team that's getting rid of

draft picks normally you're closer to the top of your winning cycle when you're doing that vancouver's not there yeah probably not um you know generally like i don't like doing that if i if i was making a trade i'd rather be getting the draft pick than giving up the draft pick. But when I saw the salary disparity, you know, what's Montreal going to do? Like, they're going to sit there and they're going to say, hey, we're taking extra money here. You want us to do it for free? Yeah.

We're going to get the draft picks here in a couple of moments with another defenseman. But before we get there, Shane Pinto and the Ottawa Senators. Not exactly a secret. Ottawa wants to get something done here sooner than later. And that is going to mean some maneuvers by General Manager Pierre Dorian. I think a lot of us wonder about Matthew Joseph,

wonder about Eric Brandstrom, wonder if there will be a premium attached to any deal to make it more palatable for taking these players slash contracts. You know, you wonder about a player like Lassie Thompson, you know, these B-level prospects that the Ottawa Senators have in their organization. What's the latest with Shaneane pinto and how do the senators get there well you know this whole this whole idea about pinto being close um you know they only have a million in cap room right now so it can't be close because there's no way that pinto's taking a million dollars now the other thing that's happened here is j Norris is starting the season hurt, right?

The preseason, excuse me, I should say hurt. And they announced on Thursday he's not going to play the first two exhibition games. Now, I don't blame the Senators for being cautious here. It's not worth rushing. And I'm not saying that Norris is seriously hurt. But this is a player who's had shoulder injuries before and you i mean it's just normal human emotion to be a little bit concerned about it because now you're sitting here you're saying okay what are we dealing with and you're always worried about it being chronic right so

you've really got to manage it properly so that makes pinto even more important like like i think otto has made it very clear that barring a situation that absolutely forces them to trade shane pinto and i'm very curious to see what that would take because i think i don't think they want to do it at all they're not trading them they they want to keep them like you look at if your top three centers are stutzla norris pinto you're gonna win a lot of games yep and for years because the first two guys are signed for a long time and the hope is eventually the third guy will be, you could be a very good team for a long time. And Ottawa sees that.

They know that, and they see that. And they don't want to trade them, and I don't blame them in the least bit for that. So I sit here and I say, though, if you only have a million in cap room, you're not close to signing them unless you can do something else. And the other thing, too, is we don't know where the negotiation is.

But the one thing I always look at, again, I understand everything can change with one phone call, but you're really not that close to signing them if you only have a million in cap room. And we still don't know like are they really close in the negotiation so what i think is going to happen here i think you're right like a player like joseph ottawa recognizes they're going to have to sweeten the process to trade them yep i i really wonder though jeff like what is that piece going to be i'm you know does ottawa want to do a draft pick does ottawa want to do a prospect you mentioned one prospect is that piece going to be? Does Ottawa want to do a draft pick?

Does Ottawa want to do a prospect? You mentioned one prospect. Is that going to be good enough for people? Because Ottawa can't take money back, right? So if I'm a team like Philadelphia, and I think Philadelphia is in the middle of this, what I'm saying is, how are you going to make it worth our while like is is that prospect going

to be good enough for us or do we want a better prospect and I think you know I think Philly has an idea of what it wants and I think if if Ottawa liked what Philly wanted I think that deal would be done already so we're in the dance we're dancing we're waltzing we're getting to know each other a little bit do i have chemistry with my dance partner here can we win a dance competition together are we patrick swayze and jennifer gray for the hip young people out there we're dancing and it's not even the weekend look at you elliot friedman um let me uh let's bounce around a few things as we stand by to find out where Shane Pinto goes. Oh, by the way, another bit of business for the Ottawa Senators.

With the exiting of Trent Mann, they still need to find someone to head up their amateur scouting department. I think a lot of people are wondering about Don Boyd there. Maybe him, maybe someone else, but that's another bit of business that Pierre Dorian has to shore up for the organization. Devon Taves in Colorado on an expiring contract. Elliot, he's a key piece to that puzzle. And I'll tell you, man, listening to the list of injuries and reading the list of injuries and hearing Jared Bednar

talk about them the other day from Landeskog to Makar, who's going to be there next week, by the way, to Josh Mance and to Fransos and Cogliano's day-to-day. It just kept adding and adding and adding. They're starting the season with some Band-Aids here, but what's the situation with Devon Taves? So Devon Taves had some interesting quotes on media day in Colorado.

And he basically said, I hope to get this wrapped up before the season. And he was asked, will negotiations continue during the season? And he kind of said, we'll see. So my history with quotes like that is if it's going positively, they'll keep talking into the season.

If it's not going positively, they're going to stop. And, you know, the avalanche are really secretive. And the agent here is, is really respecting that. It's Ross Gurney. He's really respecting it. I tried my best techniques and they failed um put your head back here comes the drill but look like a very smooth technique like marathon man yeah uh anyway so uh you know i look first of all let's start here

i think taves wants to be an avalanche i think the avalanche first of all, let's start here. I think Taves wants to be in Avalanche. I think the Avalanche want Taves. So let's get that passed. I think there's a will on either of these sides. Taves knows this. He can make more money on the open market than he will in Colorado. The Avalanche are not going to pay him what another team out there can pay him. Because they're trying to win a Stanley Cup again and they want to do it for a while and there's a limit to what they're going to do

and I think Taves knows that and I think everybody who negotiates with the Avalanche knows that you know McKinnon's going to get his money he's the star Makar's going to get his money he's the best defenseman in the league I think everybody understands that and the other guys around them they're still going to get paid but they're not going to get paid the elite of the elite so I think what we're seeing here is the between the avalanche and taves they're trying to get to that sweet spot what is that sweet spot and I think that's what we're waiting for here and obviously to this point they haven't reached it and we'll see how we'll see how long they continue to try if they don't negotiate into this season Jeff that says to me they're not close you know the

interesting thing it was a few interesting things about Devon Taves here. One, he's been on, when you look at the performance and how integral he is to one of the best pairs, maybe the best pair in the NHL, namely him and Kael McCarr. He has a contract that is way under market value. Like he's been playing under a very team-friendly deal for a while so you could you can understand if you're Devon Taves him saying okay I've given you a break for how many years here on this deal now it's time to put some more sugar in the coffee for me I think he probably looks around and sees you know Josh Manson making more than him Sam Gerrard making more than him certainly Kael McCarr but that's that's a chalk and cheese example. But when you look at how crucial he is to this team

and to Kael McCarr as well, and the fact that Mikko Rantanen is going to need a new deal in two years as well, and that's going to be a whopper of an extension too, this is a really tricky one. Like, I don't know that there's an easy answer or an easy number to get to on this one, Elliot. This one's real tricky.

I agree with you. But look, I think the guy is going to get paid. I think everybody understands that he's going to get paid. Like I said, I just think that there's the number of what Colorado is. What's Colorado's limit here? And I think Taves understands he's not going to get in Denver what he's going to get on the open market. There's no way that he's not aware of that. I think it just matters what's the sweet spot.

All right. A couple more names want to bounce around with you. Michael Backlund, Calgary. So I think they are talking. And look, I don't want to make predictions here because negotiations are a grind. Calgary is going to try to get its best deal and Backlund is going to get its best deal or try to anyway. And it takes try to get its best deal and Backlund is going to get its best deal and or try to anyway and it takes time to get there but I am under the impression that they are talking and I do believe Backlund has indicated he is willing to stay and I think

the other thing here too is I it would not surprise me in the least bit if the Flames are saying, you get this done, you're RC. I don't know that they're doing that, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit. It makes sense. You know, like, I think the players believe that Backlund is the true captain of the team, and I'm sure the organization is not blind to it. But he's come back. Remember how he felt at the end of last year? He's come back. He how he felt at the end of last year?

He's come back. He's in a much better mood. He's very important to them on and off the ice. You know that King Clancy trophy he won last year for his community. I think that was a big thing to remind everybody.

This has been an excellent marriage. The marriage between Michael Backlund and the Calgary Flames has been good for the organization. It's been good for Michael Backlund, his family, and the community of Calgary. And I think everybody is kind of, after a summer of deep breath, I think everyone's reconnected here. I do believe they're talking. I think there's a legitimate chance. I just don't want to say, first of all,

I don't think it's imminent or anything else. And you still have to find a sweet spot that makes sense for both player and team. But I think there's something here to keep an eye on when it comes to Backlund. I think he now wants to stay, and I think the Fl flames want it to happen so now we just have to get from point a to point b as well as it relates to calgary um oliver

shillington uh unable to participate in training camp well i think everybody uh roots the best for shillington who missed last year because he needed time and i i think people are just hopeful here that you know he was away for a year and it's everybody's just hoping it's like just an adjustment to get back in and uh i think people are just rooting for him and i think they're going to be patient and uh i think everybody wants him to succeed so i think they're going to be patient and uh i think everybody wants him to succeed so i think they're going to do what they can to put him in position to succeed and i think everyone's everyone's rooting for him a couple of things as it relates to the toronto maple leafs uh william nylander to center as you've speculated on for a couple of weeks now um matt morey to undergo surgery and

no jake muzzin to no surprise. Although it's always, man, I always feel for that guy specifically knowing what he's put his body through for this game and the NHL teams that he's played for. It's always tough to hear that news that Jake Muzzin won't play this year. Well, I'm looking to see the next phase of his career or his life because I think that's a guy who could go into player development or management or something like that like Jake Muzzin was uh was a huge factor in that room when he was healthy um Tavares is the captain but I think Muzzin in some ways was was I was told was like the social convener you know he made sure some fun things happened uh with the team he was a very big voice and a very big presence. I heard he was very good for Mitch Marner in particular. The players liked having him around even when he wasn't hurt,

so I think he's going to be there. When it comes to Matt Murray, whenever this happens, people are like, they're circumventing the cap, they're circumventing the cap. I don't think the NHL is unaware of what's going on here. I think that ever since in the summer, like I said right from the moment they announced it, I didn't think Murray was going to play this year. And I think the NHL has – they've let the NHL know these are the issues,

and I think they've been given okay with that. I still believe that Matt Murray will not play this year the Maple Leafs have not come out and said it but I don't think he's going to play this year and look they they it's it is unusual they're not announcing whatever the surgery is but one thing I have been told is do not necessarily write off Matt Murray for the future in the sense that if he can get healthy, maybe he's going to try again. So I don't know that he's going to play.

I don't believe he's going to play this year. I don't. I have not changed my opinion, but I've had people say to me, don't say like he'll never play again. And so we'll see where it goes. Again, anybody that goes through this, I root for them. You know the player I'm cheering for the most this year is probably Brandon Sutter. I like to see people have comebacks.

I really do. William Nylander to center. A thought on this one. Does this in any way, shape shape or form associate to contract negotiations? Or is this the Maple Leafs, you know, giving Nylander a long look in the middle, maybe for a couple of reasons here. One, he was drafted as a center. And don't forget, this was Brendan Shanahan's first pick when he joined the Maple Leafs

organization back in the Aaron Ekblad draft in Philadelphia. And also, I think we're wondering, is this perhaps a chance for him to get comfortable in this position, have a long run at center in case he needs to fill the number two hole? I think that's all fair. I mean, look, if he's effective as a center, it doesn't hurt his negotiating position. The thing I thought was the most interesting was that Tavares,

when I first heard that he was going to play some center this year, first of all, I didn't think it was going to be at the beginning of the year. That one caught me by surprise. But secondly,

I thought Tavares would move to the wing. Like to me, this is about making life easier on Tavares. But I was interested in hearing that right now that's not the case.

Tavares is going to play center. So I wonder if he's, that means he's going to try to ease some players' minutes, Keefe, at the beginning of the case. Tavares is going to play center. So I wonder if that means he's going to try to ease some players' minutes, Keefe, at the beginning of the season. Also depth down the lineup. But it's not the worst thing in the world if he does well at center this year for his own negotiating position. I will tell you this.

I had some people who reached out to me who were very skeptical about this, just in the sense that they're like, he's not a center. And I'm like, you know, we'll see. And they're like, he's not a center. And my answer is we'll see. We'll see how long this lasts. But I actually was a little bit surprised. I thought he would be centering Tavares.

I really did, Jeff. You wonder if that happens down the road. Now, I'm new to hockey. I don't know much. Are right-hand shot centers valuable in this National Hockey League that you talked about? Is that a big deal, Elliot? I think that's a very, very good question

for a newbie such as yourself. Okay, I'm going to ask that on the thought line. I'm going to submit one myself. Does it matter if you're a right shot or a left shot? I'm thinking of centers and defensemen. Quick couple of thoughts on a couple of new captains braden shannon st louis brad marshand in boston the social media around oh my god the bruins are knocking this one out of the park the picture on thursday morning like good morning from your captain it's so good it's so awesome i love it love it. I woke up. I checked my phone.

I saw that, and I was like, hey. Throw a retweet at that. Let's go. That's what the kids call Riz, Jeff. The kids call it Riz. Stop, Grandpa. Stop. Yes.

That was very impressive. I loved it. First of all, I'm happy for Marchand. I think that he, to me, he was the right choice. I really believe that to continue that lineage, Chara, Bergeron, like people aren't going to look at Marchand the same way they're going to look at Chara and Bergeron because some of the stuff that's happened in the past.

But like anybody who thinks that that guy isn't a dedicated pro who really holds himself to a high standard just has no clue. Like you think about the way he started not only like but jeff i'm not only talking about some of the crazy stuff he did but did anybody think like this is a guy who a couple years ago was number two on ballots for the heart trophy like did you ever think that this guy would be number two yeah number two i had him top three he's one of the best players in the nhl and i think you know i remember a few years ago watching um you know when lonzo ball first got in the nba and because his dad is so crazy and now his dad's

selling like chin-up bars for 10 million dollars on twitter his dad was so crazy they were like oh this guy's a clown show like the balls are nuts and i remember zach low who i think is a really good basketball analyst went on tv and said forget the noise like I think is a really good basketball analyst, went on TV and said, forget the noise. Like, this kid's a really good player. I think about that with Marchand. Forget the noise. Like, this guy is a really good player, and he's really dedicated. I think he's a great choice.

By the way, about Braden Shen, I'm happy for Braden Shen, too. This is my prediction, okay? Here is my future media prediction when they retire the shen brothers are going to be the mannings of the nhl in what sense they're going to be media stars oh 100 they will they're going to be two-thirds or half of a panel somewhere and they'll do their shen cast or whatever they're gonna their saski cast or whatever sas cast a sas cast or whatever they're

going to call it and they're going to put us all out of jobs those guys are going to be media studs when their hockey careers are done s-t-u-d-s studs that's that is why elliot i think a lot of us were really happy when we saw um luke shen both signed extensions multi-year extensions signed a three-year deal it's like okay we get to keep our jobs away from luke shen for three more years at least a couple more things quick before we hit a break. Jeff Greenberg has had a very interesting dance with hockey. Was up for the Chicago Blackhawks general manager job. He's been assistant general manager there with the Chicago Cubs. Previously, he leaves to go back to MLB with the Detroit Tigers.

Your thoughts on Jeff Greenberg? So his father, Chuck Greenbergberg has a long history with hockey like for example when Mario Lemieux because the Penguins owed him so much money when he ended up as the team's owner Chuck Greenberg who's a lawyer like had a huge part of getting that deal done very very big role in getting that deal done he owned he huge part of getting that deal done. Very, very big role in getting that deal done. He was part of an ownership bid of the Texas Rangers for a while. And he once bid on the Carolina Hurricanes right before Tom Dundon got it. And if I remember correctly, I could be wrong. I think he was also went on buying the Dallas Stars before Tom Gilardi got it. So he's got a long history with hockey.

Now, Jeff worked for the Cubs. As you said, he interviewed for the Blackhawks GM job that Kyle Davidson got. And the person who really was his champion, who really knew him well, is Jamie Faulkner, who's the president of business operations for the Blackhawks. Well, last year, Pittsburgh wanted to interview him for the job that eventually went to Kyle Dubas. And I heard that the Blackhawks blocked him from being interviewed. And now he ends up as the GM of the Tigers. He's the number two there. and now he ends up as the GM of the Tigers.

He's the number two there. The president of baseball operations there is a guy named Scott Harris who worked with Greenberg for the Cubs, so obviously he knows him. But that's one of the things I'm kind of – I'm just spitballing this. I don't know the answer, but I always wonder how people react when they're blocked from going other places. But he knows Scott Harris, and very interesting career arc i will say that okay um finishing up here before we get to the uh the thought line and our feature interviews um rich naren uh executive ep of communications for the arizona coyotes uh long time worked in

comms for that organization uh 27 years just remarkable i mean you've dealt plenty with them i've dealt with them uh as well we all have um in this side of the industry it will be bizarre checking in on the arizona coyotes and not having rich nairn to talk to but we wish him the best uh he moves on uh to his next adventure in life your thoughts thoughts on Rich Nairn? Well, this is going to come out a lot worse than I mean it, Jeff. But could you imagine working 27 years in Arizona? Think of everything. Well, I mean, first of all, I would love to live in Arizona. But could you imagine 27 years with the Coyotes

and the stories, the things that you've been through like if he wrote a book it would be a bestseller so what did we talk about in the elevator on the way up to our rooms in edmonton the other day if you want someone to write a book who's getting out of the nhl right now rich naren is the guy rich if you're listening please write a book as i cross my fingers and hope that he's not signed various 5 for this idea please write a book as i cross my fingers and hope that he's not signed various 5 for this idea please write a book rich you know the thing is is that it's just think of all of the crazy stuff that's happened with that organization and you're the point man for putting out the fires yeah like think of all the things you've had like your responsibility when you're the media

relations person your job is to present the organization in the best way possible think i want everyone to take like two seconds and think of all of the things that you would have to do in almost three decades of working for the coyotes all the stuff that's happened just imagine the calls that would come happened um just imagine the calls that would come your way just imagine the things that you would have had to do just think of the you know the saga of uh of the arizona coyotes then phoenix coyotes as we all got you know intimately engaged with characters the likes of which go by names red Redfield T-Bomb, all of a sudden, how bizarre. I mean, I was there covering it for CBC Sports,

how bizarre some of those court sessions were. And there's, you know, Rich trying to explain it and put out fires and, you know, try to give it the best possible landing on behalf of the Coyotes organization. I would be, and I think we all would, fascinated to hear him talk candidly and openly about all of his time with the Coyotes,

who, listen, even continuing to this day, continue to be one of the more fascinating stories in the NHL. 100% agreed. 100%. Rich, we wish you the best. 32 Thoughts continues after this. Listen to the 32 Thoughts podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime.

Don't forget still to come here on the podcast. Jay Woodcroft, head coach of the Edmonton Oilers. Also, Matthias Ekholm, defenseman for that same organization. Time now for the Montana's Thought Line, Montana's Barbecue and Bar, Canada's home for barbecue. Elliot always says... Try the ribs. There you go. 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca is the email address by way way of phone [phone]

1-833-311-3232 a lot of these questions for today elliot revolve around rules and regulations nate from nashville hey jeff and elliot with carolina not having an ahl affiliate where would they turn if multiple guys get injured or something and don't have enough to ice a complete team? As always, good job, Jeff. Impeccable job, Elliot. Ooh, impeccable, Elliot. They have players scattered all over. It's not the ideal situation, and they want to rectify it, and the NHL has been involved.

But you know how this one goes, Elliot. Yeah, you're right. Your answer is correct. They have players all around, you know they'll they'll have to pick from that group or if they worse comes to worse they'll have to acquire someone during the season or sign someone during the season this reminds me jeff i wanted to correct something from my blog this week i said that the last two teams sold in the ahL were for over $10 million. And that is true, but the last expansion team was not $10 million.

It was under. So I don't know what the exact number is going to be here, but again, Carolina's going to have to be comfortable with the number because if it's not $10, it's not going to be too far off. Dundon has that tree in his backyard, though, doesn't he? The one that springs money, that money tree in the backyard of the palatial estate, I believe. Just pluck some dollars out of that. I think that's Don Waddell, actually.

You know what? It is, too. He's done well, as I understand. The porta-potties. Great investment. He's done very, very well. Cushy from Guelph. Love Guelph.

So does Elliot. Hey, Jeff and Elliot and well. Cushy from Guelph. Love Guelph. So does Elliot. Hey, Jeff and Elliot and our new producers. Congrats on the new gig and best of luck to you. That is, of course. Now I know why you guys picked this. Now I know why Cam and Dom picked this one. Yes. It's probably a terrible question, but they wanted the love.

It's a good one. It's actually an interesting one, too. We've seen a lot of conditional trades where the compensation is tied to an outcome, i.e., playoff success, lottery protection if the season fails. Do we know if teams can set conditions based on a team re-signing a player to a specific salary cap number?

Example, if Bradtree Living trades Nylander at the end of the playoffs to a team that re-signs him, could Toronto, in theory, ask for three first rounders if Nylander re-signs for less than nine mil or two firsts for a deal larger than nine million love the show great work everyone conditions on trades Elliot that is an excellent question because it kind of used to be the case. It was not based on salary. However, it was based on if a player did resign.

There used to be situations where, for example, when Chris Russell was traded from Calgary to Dallas, Dallas was playing, I think, game seven of a playoff series against St. Louis. And if Dallas won, the Flames were getting an extra first-round pick. Unfortunately, for the Flames, they lost the game. That's not allowed anymore. As a matter of fact, in the last CBA negotiation, it must have been the COVID one, to be perfectly honest, the Players Association fought to have that dropped because they didn't think

a team's compensation should hinge on a player's decision. because they didn't think a team's compensation should hinge on a player's decision. They felt it opened up the player to too much pressure. So no longer can a trade compensation be tied into whether or not a player resigns. That is O-U-T out. Just as an aside, do you remember Boston Bruins prospect, former Windsor Spitfire, Alexander Koklachev,

who's now playing in the khl yes okay did you see did you see the conditions on his trade so he got traded um from spartak to kabarovsk okay and one of the conditions of the trade is he's not allowed to play against spartak really i don't know if it's just for that season the entirety of the car or whatever but he's not allowed to play against Spartak. Really? I don't know if it's just for that season, the entirety of the, or whatever, but he's not allowed to play against his old team. I bounced that off one manager in the NHL. I'm like, hey, did you see this Koklachev trade? He said, that's interesting.

I said, what do you think? He goes, well, you would see more in-division trades if you attach that as a condition. It's one of the more unique conditions I've ever seen before. Could you imagine like Toronto trades Nylander to Tampa? Can't play against Toronto. I had someone all over me about it,

about a Nylander for Stamco's trade and how much that made sense. But imagine Toronto trades Nylander to Tampa and part of the condition is it can't play against the Leafs. So in the playoffs, Tampa plays Toronto and Nylander doesn't show up. I can't even imagine that. Wild. No way they'd let that.

Otto from, it's an interesting conversation starter. Interesting. And I never thought we'd hear the name Koklachev again, but that's an interesting one. I was going to mention on the pod a couple of weeks ago and I forgot.

Thanks so much for sending that email, by the way. That one. That was a good question, even though it praised the new producers. It's a good question because it's someone from Guelph. Thank you very much. Kushi from Guelph. Okay, we'll finish with.

Someone from London wrote it for them. Okay, what's the last one? Otto from Helsinki. Hey, Jeff and Elliot. Hockey fan from Helsinki, Finland here. Thanks for the show and everything you do. Very exciting insights. Oh, Otto, we have you fooled.

My question is about the quote-unquote youth movement in the NHL. How much of it do you think is just down to the logic of the salary cap? How different would an average roster be right now without the salary cap, with veterans potentially replacing younger, cheap players? Hey, just as a quick aside, before you answer that, Elliot, I had a conversation with someone yesterday, and he was talking to me about the idea of where once upon a time you never wanted an entry-level player to burn off the first year.

Now the hue and cry is let them burn off the first year yes so you artificially depress the stats when it comes time to extend them now the idea is oh yeah go let them play 10 11 12 games burn that first year the ufa year is the big one not the first year of the entry level anyhow yes i think that's true you know the only reason you know i understand the theory um that that the uh writer has here i i get it auto but i i auto i would say this i just think that the game has become so much more of a skating and faster game now it's just harder like i think athletes and are better conditioned than ever and i don't bet against aging curves as much as I used to because I think some guys, maybe in counting stats, yes,

but I think there's a lot of players who can keep up later because they know that now. But I just think generally it's a fast game. And on average, younger people are going to be faster than older people. Excellent. Otto in Helsinki, thanks so much for contributing and listening to the podcast in a couple of moments you're going to hear from edmonton oilers head coach jay woodcroft if you heard us interview him last year you know he's one of the more thoughtful coaches around the nhl but up first speaking of thoughtful uh here's

matthias ekholm defenseman for the edmonton oilers and And again, this was recorded a day before the injury, the minor hip injury was revealed. Otherwise, we probably would have got into that as well. But here's Matthias Ekholm, defenseman for the Oilers on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. You know, Matthias, a lot of people talk about trade deadline acquisitions in this past season. A lot was made of Ivan Barbashev with the Vegas Golden Knights,

and a lot was made of you as well going to the Edmonton Oilers as far as fit goes and working right away and impact that you had with your team. Why do you think it worked so well, pretty much right out of the gate, between you and the Oilers? That's a good question. First time being traded, it was a whirlwind for sure. But I guess if I learned anything about myself over the last, I guess, six months, is I guess I can fit in decently and I'm not too big of a personality. I don't think I take too much space in the room

because I think that's a big part when you're going into a different locker room. Like, you're not just going to come in and, I mean, if you're a really vocal guy, I think it's more of a challenge. I just kind of was in there, kind of, where did my business? They have great leaders here. They have everything was kind of,

they have a team that wants to compete and wants to win. And for me, it just felt like I was part of it from start. And I got the big role, I thought, from start where I want to play and got a young guy with Bouchard next to me right away, which I really enjoy that. I had Carrier. I had Fabbro. I've had some of these younger kids come up and try to take kind of –

Evan was a little bit different because he's so offensive and he has such an upside on the offensive side. So for me to kind of calm him down and take the defensive side of things. But it just felt like my role on the ice was so clear from day one. I think that helped a lot. And then again, I don't think being in one team, it was not scary, but it was very different. It was very emotional leaving Nashville.

I've been there for 10 plus years. But then again, it was nice for me personally to kind of see that it's not it's not that when you never get like i've been in trade talks i feel like for the last five years i feel on and off we haven't done great in nashville since 18 um and when you never get traded i almost feel inevitable that you're just going to stay with nashville like it's just it's just the way it's going to be and then when it comes and then you get traded, it's not scary, but it's different. I didn't know.

I knew Janmark from before, but that was it. And I didn't know him a ton. I've met him. I played a one world championship with him. But otherwise, it was 22 new guys. And sometimes I feel like when you get traded, that's a good thing because then you have to get to know everybody. If you know a couple of guys, usually you just go to dinner with them. You just kind of hang out get traded, that's a good thing, because then you have to get to know everybody. If you know a couple guys,

usually you just go over to dinner with them. You just kind of hang out with them, because that's easy, but here I had to clean slate with everyone, which was great, I thought, for me, so I think there's a lot of, it was a long answer to a question, but I think there's a lot of different aspects of it

that made it work. Let me follow up with it, because I've thought a lot about, because we all did watch you a ton with nashville and then see i look at you going to edmonton and the instant success as being a credit to the way that you play that you and maybe you had some doubt because you only played in nashville and oh can i play this way in edmonton can i play this way in Buffalo can I play this way in Minnesota you probably have those questions like when you got to Edmonton and had the success that you had was it almost a reassurance to you that your game works in a lot of different places it's

not I just it's not just going to work in Nashville it can work here too yeah for sure and and even more off of that is like we were in Nashville, we had so many good defensemen come out throughout the year. So it was like I was the big guy. Like we had Ryan Ellis, Yossi is a big guy. And then we had Shea Weber. So it was like almost they were so gifted offensively, all three of them, that like, okay, you take the defensive role.

You're still going to play minutes, but you play. Yeah, seriously. A little bit like that. We were joking one year, me and I played with Ryan Ellis. I was like, I should lead the league in hits taken. Because I was always going back for the puck. We played the left wing lock and the left defenseman was back. And here we go, go back for the puck.

Someone's going to. But it was kind of that role I was given there. So when I got to here, it was more like there wasn't really that number one star like Yossi on the back end that was like doing all of it. We have Darnell, and he does everything well two-way, I feel like, where Roman is more an offensive guy. So it was natural for me to just take the defense. So here almost a little bit more room too because we got paired with Evan, and then we're playing a lot.

We're getting a lot of starts in the offensive zone, which I'm not used to. Usually I just start in the D zone and try to break the puck out and there we go, change. I thought that was also a thing that there was room to grow in that area too for me, which I maybe hadn't felt so much in Nashville because there was such an upside

of offensive talent on the back end. Okay, so I'm curious like this whole thing, you mentioned you didn't know anybody. Who surprised you? Like of all these guys, who was the one you got most wrong in terms of this is what I was expecting, and

this is what they were actually like? I think I'm going to go with a boring answer on that and say Evander Kane. Because I think I had never met him before. All you read about is what he's been through off the ice and whatever. And I think he's a great guy. I think he's a warm guy.

He wants well. He wants to win. He's really surprised me in that way, where I understood that he's a really good goal scorer, but I didn't know he was doing this and that off the ice whatever like you never that's all you hear when you're on an opposing team and you don't know the guy so I've really enjoyed his just meeting him just having a dinner with him like sitting down with him and talking to him I think he's he's a better guy than he maybe gets credit for. Okay, and what about the two big guys?

What did you learn about them that maybe you weren't expecting or surprised you? I think the, not maturity level, but just the, I feel like they're super pros, both of them. Like, they are on for every skate. They are on for every skate. They just want to be out. They want to be the leaders of this team, and they are. But they're so aware of what they need to do as well because they know scoring 160 points, and you have to translate that to playoff hockey at one point.

And I think them, because I think I had a chat with Conor earlier one day and we were talking about defense or what have you. And he just came to me and he's like, I hate when I get scored on. More than anything, I hate it.

Like it's the worst thing in the world. And watching him, that may not have been my thought with them because they're so offensive. They're so good that they know they get the next shift and they go out and score and everything's good. But I was happy because I think they're so offensive they're so good that they know they get the next shift and they go out and score and everything's good but I was happy because I think they're both

they care so much about and they understand too that in playoffs you have you can't just wheel around winning 7-1 you know you're gonna have they're gonna have to just play a shift in the d zone it doesn't happen all the time because they get the puck they're usually breaking it out but I think with those two like you came you came here and there's a reason why they traded for me. They needed some defense and they needed to play better in front of their own net and in the D zone. So my thought was obviously that, okay, these guys are just all offense.

Like, you can tell the points. But the fact that they – how much they care about a complete game was probably the thing that maybe not surprised me, but struck me the most with them. You know, Dreisauer last week in Vegas, he talked about their defensive game, like always getting better. How good are they defensively? How good are they?

I think they're really good. I think it's more about the patience of it to stick with it. I think that's what Vegas did really well with when we played them in the last playoffs. I thought they were just a little bit more stubborn than we are. I thought we were really good for the first, like, 20 seconds getting into the zone because everyone was in, was on their check, was not leaving anything.

And then when they had the puck for a little bit too long, then we got impatient and we maybe cheated a little bit here and there or maybe just wanted to break it up quicker. We're not supposed to play 45 seconds in the D zone. So I thought that's a bit of a maturity part that we might have to learn or not learn, but maybe just bear down a little bit more in that area. And then it's okay to play in D zone for 40 seconds. It's okay to play a shift every game a minute in the D zone.

It's going to happen. But to not kind of cheat and and get out of position and make them get a two-on-one somewhere just because we're tired of defending um i think is is one thing hmm you know i thought about a career in tv after your no kidding i don't know sound great got the great look i don't know this is kind of working here. Hearing you talk about Conor and saying that he hates getting scored on, my first thought is, well, he must love you because one of the great,

and this is consistent through your whole career, they refer to you as the shot suppression machine. Like when the puck is in the oiler zone, it doesn't go to the net when you're on the ice. I don't know that I have a question other than how do you do that? Because every year it's, oh, yeah, Matthias Ekholm, the puck's not going to the net, the puck's not going to the net, Ekholm's out there.

I think one thing that was earlier in my career, we had Phil Housley as a defensive coach, and it was me, Yossi Ellis, Weber, and Seth Jones at one point. And because he had, what, 1,100 points in this league as a defenseman? Like, he was all offense and he wanted us to play all offense too. Not saying that, but he was all about if you're going backwards, just have a good gap. Like, just make them defend every line you can. Don't ever let them just come into the zone and take a shot.

Like, like then when actually when the puck goes to the net like you never know what's going to happen is he going to block it out he's going to kick it with his pad you never know where it's going and then it's scrambled from there so to be able to defend the blue line and to able to as you're saying not allow the shots yeah i think is a big just a mindset that i have and then obviously i i feel like i have a pretty good reach out there so it's good like that way i can i can am i seeing them wind up i can i can be there pretty quick and either deflect it out or hopefully block it or whatever but um it's a tough question i don't know it's just the way i play the game and that's sometimes

it's all these fancy stats and whatever it is, like, it just shows up that way, and I'm not sure. It makes you look good. Well, it's good. I'm sure there's some that makes me look bad too, but it's just the way I play the game, I guess. Okay, so I was listening to you talk about those Nashville defensemen. Weber, unfortunately, won't play again. Gave his body, like, unbelievable.

Ryan Ellis, unfortunately, hurt, probably won't ever play again. Seth Jones in Chicago now. You're in Edmonton. Suter's now two trips away, Minnesota, Dallas. Yossi is still there. Is there a group chat of the Nashville defensemen from that era? Do you guys still keep in touch or anything like that? I wish it was like that, but it's just everyone's, like, I got three kids.

I know Webby has kids. Most of us have kids now, and it's just busy life, so we actually don't have a group chat. But it's always fun to go to Chicago and talk to Jonesy and just take him for dinner or whatever and see him. Same with Roman, and I was going to be special now to go back there and see him and usually try to talk to

Ryan as much as I can but we don't have a group chat we don't but yeah it's been fun to be part of it was a lot of great defensemen and PK was there too so there's been some good ones around around Nashville but um

yeah we it's hard to keep up when you have kids and it's full-time job thing and it's uh yeah it's just there's not enough time now you didn't go to Nashville last year did you I did not so are you going to be a puddle like because you know there's going to be a tribute video yeah oh yeah are you going to be a puddle when you go back there? I don't know. I'm happy because it's actually game three for us, so it's early on, so I'm kind of happy about that where it's like, okay, let's just get it off the plate.

But it's going to be special. I was there for 10-plus years, and I know everyone from the parking guard to the president to the owner to the you know everybody so it's it's something that would be a cool moment I'm sure and I'm not sure how I'm gonna react I've never been in that position before so taking it as it comes I guess and I guess a little bit time of a game of reflection but you kind of can't can't get get it to you too much because we're going to need to win the game. That's probably the biggest game of the year right now.

You mentioned Evan Bouchard earlier. He's just getting started here with his career. What do you see in Bouchard? I said this to somebody last year. I think the way to explain or like express who he is, I feel like he's almost like that teenager that's about to move from your parent, like from his parents at first time.

He's like a clean, like he doesn't, sometimes I feel like he does things where I'm like, wow, where I wouldn't even think about that because he doesn't at some point know the risk yet because he's going to do it and there's going gonna be a turnover and go back i'm sure but it was so successful for him when when at least from when i played with him i didn't think he did that many mistakes but he did some unbelievable things and it was almost

things where i'm like i've been in the league so long i know if i do this and it screws up i'm gonna go see head coach after you know what i'm saying like it's it feels like he's so fresh he's just he's just doing his thing and and learning along the way and i think his the upside he has offensively is i think this kid can go long ways like he is i played with with um eric calls and early on in my like in the national teams and all that i think he has about the same attributes at that time. It's the passing, the vision. Obviously, it's tough to put him on that pedestal because Eric has 100 points.

I'm not to put any pressure on him, but as an offensive defenseman, I think he has everything that it takes. With that power play. Exactly. You never know. Buckle up for him. I think he keeps trending, keeps playing with the confidence.

I think that was the biggest thing when I got in. He was a little bit too worried sometimes about the defensive faulties that happens and the coaches want to push on. But as a guy like that, you have to just be able to, okay, I get it, but I also make eight good things happen offensively which is risky you just got to move on and i thought that's what he did really well down the stretch like he wasn't too worried about a mistake or a turnover or him giving up a two-on-one he just kept playing he played percentages right like

yeah if he exactly if he costs you two scoring chances, but he creates 10, you win with margins like that. Exactly. Well, that's a constant debate. Plus eight. Yeah, exactly. Well, if you look at Eric, too. You watch his games. They're not perfect.

He's not perfect defensively at all. But he does so much well offensively that people, like, you kind of got to have that. Last one for me. I just, you know, you talked about nashville a bit 2017 you got within two wins you were right there do you ever talk to these guys or plan to talk to these guys about don't take it for granted don't take it for granted yeah no that's um i don't think i've had the uh yet had the chance to to have a big group meeting like that.

But when we end up in that situation, we come to the playoffs again. And I think what struck me the most was when we lost that final was I was 26 at the time, just turned 27. And I'm like, well, we have a great team. We're going to be back here three more times within the next three years like that's for sure what's gonna happen but then you end up we lost games like we were really good the next year but we lost game seven against Winnipeg and second round and you're just like Jesus and it goes quick like you only have your window is not that long like it's three four maybe five years. Then management, then ownership, everything's getting to move. So for sure that's the biggest thing here.

I didn't think we deserved to win against Vegas. Do I think we had them pretty under control game five when we took two penalties? I thought we had them right where we wanted them. And we kind of let that one slip away. And we can't have that anymore. That's the one thought we had them right where we wanted them and we kind of let that one slip away and we can't have that anymore. That's the one slip we had. Now it's got

time to realize what team we have, how we're right up against the cap. We can't do it. This is the team. It's us. Just like you're saying, it goes quick. It really does. I'm sitting here 33 years old now. I'm happy to be

in the league still and there's not too many over 35 so for me personally that's exactly what it is and for us

as a team too to realize that it goes so fast with those windows we have to make the most of it TV's in your future after your career

and probably doing a podcast too Matias thanks so much for this best of luck this season with the Warriors appreciate it guys thanks very. Matias, thanks so much for this. Best of luck this season with the Oilers. Appreciate it, guys. Thanks very much, Matias.

I'll tell you what, Jay Woodcroft. Every time I hear people like Elliott Friedman predict that the Oilers will win the Stanley Cup, or we see and hear people in that chair saying, Cup or bust, I think of you and I think of pressure. I think, okay, everyone around you know around the hockey world is saying once again always have a shot at this thing and the players are saying cup or bust what's in your mind right now well uh the first thing for me is is making sure that we control the things that are immediately within our control so for me, the message that we're going to send out to our players here in

training camp is, you know what, we got to take care of a few things here. And the first thing we have to take care of is our day. And your day could consist of a practice, it could consist of a game, it could consist of a recovery day. Our job is to take care of what's immediately before us, and that, number one, is the day. So take care of the day. The second thing for us is to take care of our standard. We're lucky we work in an organization that has a proud history. There's been a standard here established over a number of years.

We're kind of that next generation that's looking to keep pushing and add to that legacy. But I think if our focus can be on those two things, the standard and the day, that we'll be in a good spot. And for me, you know, you talked about, you know, the outside noise of expectation and whatnot. And for us as a coaching staff and as a group of players, we have to remember that the pressure can't exceed the pleasure. There has to be some joy in the journey here. And I think when you message that on a consistent basis, the players have a level of focus about them

that we feel good about heading into this training camp. Quick follow-up. Who do you, in the off-season, who do you, of all of your players, who do you not worry about? Oh, I think players are like your children. You worry about everybody but for different reasons. Sometimes players, you worry that they're addressing the things that they need to address. Maybe it's someone who has to get a little bit stronger.

Maybe it's someone that has to feel better in physical confrontations. And then there's guys that are such high achievers that you worry that they're getting enough time away from the arena, that they're taking the requisite time to heal, to make sure they're renewing in the summertime, all those type of things. So you worry about people for different reasons. It's like being a parent. But I'm lucky because just like my kids in my family our players here are pretty responsible they're pretty self-aware and I think they were sent away in the summertime with a great

message by all appearances they've come back with a level of seriousness and a level of concentration about them that you know we're excited to get going here. Give me an example of maybe one or two guys on this team that you look at in the summer and say, okay, I want to know that you're not on the ice. I want to know that you're turning off your mind. Who are those guys on this team? Well, I think it starts with our captain who has redefined

what dedication and determination are for me anyways he has um you want to make sure that he's um not spending all his bandwidth in the summer with with just uh you know preparing for the season i want to make sure that he's taking enough time to physically, emotionally, mentally renew because he is such a driven person and so concerned with pushing this team to the next level. I want to make sure that he's taking enough time for himself, and he does, he does.

He understands the value of that. I think there's other players. We have Derek Ryan, who's you know 35 36 years of age i want to make sure that and he's in unbelievable condition uh very much takes care of himself but he has to make sure that he's taking care of things away from the rink his family he's a he's a good family man father um you know He's doing the requisite things in the summertime that might not be concerned with the game of hockey. I think that's part of being a human being.

It's part of being well-rounded. But when it comes time to go to work, I expect, our organization expect, our player leadership group expects a level of seriousness to be the best that we can be and that goes back to that initial philosophy of making sure we're taking care of the day part of taking care of the day is making sure you have that reservoir of energy to do so both physical and mental energy that's what the summertime was for to fill that up so that we can approach our day with that type of mindset okay so this is going to air that's what the summertime was for to fill that up so that we can approach our day with that

type of mindset okay so this is going to air that's a great answer by the way it's a great answer this is going to air after the first time you meet with your players officially yeah like we know you're cheating and you're illegally meeting and skating with your players i just want you to know that what but but no no. Officially, when you meet with your players for the first time, so this is going to be after, what is your message for them the first time you meet with the 2023-24 Edmonton Oilers? I just gave it to you.

Like, I'm serious about that. I'm going to go in there tomorrow, and I'm talking about two things, the day and the standard. Everything else, in my opinion is outside outside noise uh there's enough stuff in the media there's enough stuff um you know in different cities around the national hockey league i want our players ultra focused i want them dialed in and the message i'm giving them is if we take care of these two things, results will take care of themselves.

And that's a fact. I am saying that tomorrow. Do you show a video? No. You know what I will do is I will take slides, and I'm going to speak to some slides. And I'll go into greater detail of what I expect or what I mean by maximizing your day.

Give me one slide. You know, there's a slide that's on the Internet where, you know, I read this in reading about Kobe Bryant and his process. He had the philosophy of 1% better every day. And it comes to the fact that, you know, you're never standing still. You're either getting better or you're declining. But habits compound over time. So if you commit to that philosophy of 1% better every day, over time, your improvement is almost immeasurable.

That's a really thoughtful answer. Thank you. I'll tell you, you know, how much at this level with this team, because there's no denying how skilled this team is, and you look at the two most obvious examples in Connor and Leon, at the two most obvious examples in Connor and Leon. How much of this season for this team is going to be between the ears? Well, I think it starts with establishing a mentality

and committing to a mentality. You mentioned it. We have some skill. We had 12 forwards. We had 11 before the trade deadline when we acquired Bukestad last year. It was 12 forwards with double-digit goals. We led the league in goals. You know, we're confident that we can win games in different fashions.

But I think this year, specifically through training camp in the first phase of our season, we want to be known as a team with a certain type of mentality um i think the earlier you can establish that the better it sets you up for long-term success um is that between the years i believe that's where it starts you know that's um we just spoke to evander kane and we talked about the Evander Kane and we talked about the Vegas series and he talked about, you know, maybe, you know, letting moments in the game, you know, get away because it was, hey, it's run and gun and we can play that and we're going to go for that. We've talked on this podcast before about the idea of success happens when you have the talent to manage your talent. How do you do that with a team like this?

I think you start day one of training camp. We talked with Elliot there about messaging and what the coaching staff is going to bring to the players. We wanted to turn the brains on in that way. I think as training camp goes, you're laying that way. I think as training camp goes, you're laying that foundation. You're letting the group know how important the type of work ethic

required to have success is. You reinforce that on a daily basis. You catch your team doing things correctly. And then I think there's teachable moments as the season wears on. And it's in those almost fulcrum points where the team gets to decide which way do we want to go here. And I think it's incumbent upon the coaching staff to make sure

that we're paying attention to that. When you look back at the Vegas series, what was the difference? You know, first of all, I would compliment the Vegas Golden Knights. We don't want that here. No, no first of all i would compliment the vegas golden knights they won we don't want that here no no no i would compliment them you know that they won the stanley cup it was their time i think they were a team that had been in the final four four of six seasons so they had gone through those growth moments they had the scars of disappointments past, and it was their time. What do I think of our series against Vegas? I think, you know, we had good moments.

They had good moments. I think game five with one of our top defensemen out in Nurse and one of their top defensemen out in Peter Angelo, I thought it was a close game. I thought we controlled that first half of that game. And then we got into a little bit of penalty trouble. And there were moments there where it was bang, bang, bang. And we found ourselves down 4-2 heading into a third period.

We, you know, I thought we controlled the third period, but we were unable to find the equalizer. I thought that was a critical point in that series. But when I look at that series, I think we were right there. But there's moments that we can handle much better. But that's what this is about. This is what this conversation is about here, is that we've used the summertime to make sure that we were digging deeper

than just surface level. We went over our game with a fine-tooth comb. We've identified things that we want to add to our game while at the same time not abandoning what makes our team great. We've had the success that we've had over the last two years for a reason. We've, you know We've found a way to play in five playoff series over the last two seasons for a reason. We want to continue to hammer on those things that make us a good team

while at the same time adding layers to our game that we think will help us get to that next level. You said that was Vegas' time. It's 2024, Edmonton's time. Well, I don't have a crystal ball. I can tell you this. I like the look in our team's eye. I like where our leadership group is at, where we're at in the life stage of our organization. I know that this team is going to commit to doing it right and it's going to commit to doing it right right from day one that's um that's a real focal point for us we

think if we do that we'll put ourselves in position come april you know you anyone who's heard you speak before knows you're a really thoughtful person. And you have an ability to find things for hockey away from hockey. Sure. Anything this summer you found either on a podcast or an experience or a conversation or a book or a whatever that you're bringing to the Oilers? You know what? I listen to you guys a lot, so I pick up a lot from some of your guests. First mistake. First mistake. No, no, no, no. I'm all serious.

Strike one. That would be number one. I think number two, you know, I like to read. That's how I personally renew. I read a lot. What'd you read this summer? Well, you know, I was a big fan of basketball. Not dissimilar to you, Elliot.

I know that's where you got your start i've mentioned it before yeah yeah once or twice but but i was a big as a young man i love to play basketball and i i personally love the showtime way of playing basketball that the la lakers so you read jeff pearlman's book well i've i have I've read um you know I spent some time rereading a book I read as a young man by Pat Riley called Showtime and ironically there's a tv show now yeah now um yeah called Winning Time and uh but it was all about Pat Riley's kind of comeuppance um he started as an assistant coach and then and then how he, some of the lessons he learned along the way for the 80s Lakers. I think there's a lot of, you know, similarities

between what he was dealing with with the basketball team in the 1980s and somebody who's coaching hockey in the 2020s. You know, I think... Like how? Well, you know, he talked a lot about in that book and i remembered it from reading it as a young man uh about what he called the innocent climb and that's a team that is you know innocently trying to strive for greatness and and some of the obstacles that they're dealing with along the way and And, um, you know, I, I thought what he was writing about resonated for me.

I learned some lessons. I wrote some notes. I plan on, uh, using some of that stuff as, as we navigate our year here. Um, but I thought,

uh, you know, for me to revisit that book, probably 30 odd years later, um, it was fun, fun to do. See, I love that, right?

It's the whole idea that you can't step into the same river twice. You change. Do you do that often, go back and read books that you've read 20, 30 years ago? Yeah. Because you think you have it all. Oh, yeah, I've already read that book. Well, you have changed, so you haven't read that book. I think that's a great way of putting it

there is i think um you evolve as a person naturally and the perspective that i read that book at 15 years old was much different than as a 47 year old who has his own family and who's in the profession of professional coaching um yeah i do it's. Um, a lot of times I'm a big note taker. Uh, so I'll, uh, I'll reread notebooks that I've wrote in over the, my coaching career. Um, because I think there's lessons that I learned in 2010 that are apropos to what's happening in 2023. And as I go back and reflect on it, I think, you know, there's little nuggets in there that I can apply to what's going on in today's world. And I'm doing it from a much different perspective. And that's Jay Woodcraft, the head coach of the Edmonton Oilers. Look for more Oilers interviews coming up the next few editions of 32 Thoughts, the podcast.

Look for more Oilers interviews coming up the next few editions of 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Speaking of next editions, stay tuned for a special edition of 32 Thoughts at some point this weekend. Yes, we're going to do the regular Sunday recording for the Monday drop, but keep refreshing your podcast feeds. Look for our feature interview with Luke Robitaille, president of the Los Angeles Kings from Australia. Have a great weekend. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you.