32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Untouchable

Episode Date: December 19, 2022

Buckle up! Jeff and Elliotte get into the situation in Vancouver (2:00), the latest on the struggling Flyers (10:16), what the Predators are doing (17:10), the Rangers find their stride (23:45) as does Carolina (29:40), they discuss the news around the schedule next season (51:40) and what we might see from the salary cap (55:30).The guys also have a pretty fierce debate about the Connor McDavid offside against the Blues (41:40), tip their hat to Blake Wheeler (37:00) and take your questions (1:01:20).GET YOUR 32 THOUGHTS MERCH HEREEmail the podcast at [e-mail] or call The Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailThis podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Music Outro: Mac Saturn - Mr. CadillacFind the full track hereAudio Credits: 105.9 The X, 99.9 The Fan, CHED, FOX Sports and Sportsnet.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Remember, Spontaneity has a time and a place, Amel. I don't like this. Hello out there, it's Patrick here. I'm at the game tonight. I've paid my price, I'm near the ice, my seat's right at the boards. The play comes fast and the players crash and the fans jump to their feet. I love the game and go insane and bang the glass with Lee. Oh, the good old hockey game. Its prices are insane. Who cares what Merrick says?

Bang the glass at a hockey game. Now do the wave. Great job, Amal. Great job, Elliot. That's fantastic i say this many times we have the best listeners the best that's awesome all of the things you hate the hockey song the wave glass banging yeah i don't mind the way no you probably hate it i like the attempts at getting the wave started the wave itself was kind of yawn but but I always like, you know,

the couple of drunk fans that try to get the wave going. And then when it finally clicks, the eruption, I can do without the actual wave part, but all the preamble, everything that goes into creating it, I kind of dig. Well, thank you, Patrick. That was my hell. That is what's on a loop in hell.

It's a combination of the hockey song by Stompin' Tom and it's people banging the glass. And thank you for all the tweets, by the way, on all of it. Every time there's a glass banging viz, I now get attached and tagged to it. So thank you everybody for that. And we'll do the introductions. Welcome once again to 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented by GMC

and the new Sierra AT4X. I don't know that we're going to get the glass banging or that awful song, Elliot, but we do have a lot today. I want to get right to it because we do have some emails and some phone calls and some really interesting questions coming up at the end of the podcast. In the meantime, much like me on this podcast, Elias Pedersen is the only untouchable on the Vancouver Canucks. How do you like that setup?

That's very good. If not setup? That's very good. If not accurate, that's very good. Thank you. So I spent a lot of last week asking about what's really going on here in Vancouver, or at least trying to get a handle on it because they're the team a lot of people are watching. First of all, they've got a president of hockey operations there in Jim Rutherford, who was not afraid to do anything. absolutely unafraid to do anything. And when he's got a team that's in the middle of the action, whether it's as a buyer or a seller,

you have to be aware of what he's thinking or try to be aware of what he's thinking. So I spent a lot of last week just asking around what's Vancouver up to what's Vancouver up to and I watched earlier today Patrick Alvin as you know Jeff when the show was over Saturday night I do not let after hours interfere with my post-game beer session with Kevin Kelly and Ron and whoever else wants to come along so I watched it Sunday morning and there was an interesting one one of the most interesting things Alvin talked about was that there was an interesting one. One of the most interesting things Alvin talked about was that there was a meeting in Calgary when they were there last Tuesday and Wednesday where he spoke to Bo Horvat. More direct question. Is this really your final

offer to Bo Horvat? You know what? We're still talking. I had a meeting with Bo here in Calgary and we know where we stand, and he knows the situation here, and we'll see what happens here in the next couple of weeks, months. And I think what Bo Horvat had indicated was he was upset that it got out that he'd recently turned down an offer, as reported by Rick Dallowall. He didn't like that. Bo Horvat is a guy who believes summers are for talking and seasons are for playing. And, you know, one of the things I

think that's gone on here, and this is my guess into the situation, is that Bo Horvat has instructed his representatives not to negotiate with the Canucks. However, what I also think he's indicated is if the Canucks want to present offers to his reps, they're allowed to do that. I just don't think his group is supposed to initiate. That's the way I see it. Anyway, he was upset that it got out, and I think he let the organization know he didn't like it. So I think they're really trying to be a bit more careful with Horvat.

Look, I think there's certain pieces they would like to move to free up some cap room, as people would expect. I don't think it's going to be easy in a lot of those cases. Like I'll give you an example. Tyler Myers, they will have no problem, if they want to, dealing Myers on July 2nd, because that's when after his bonus will be paid. Like Tyler Myers is a good player.

He plays hard. He really cares Tyler Meyer's a good player. He plays hard. He really cares. He's a great teammate. His cap hit right now and his salary is just a little high for people to handle. But next year, when his bonus is paid, there's going to be plenty of teams who are going to be very happy, pay him a million dollars to play for them. So I think what the Canucks are realized is, look, they don't want to trade away first round picks. They don't want to trade away any other picks,

really. They really want to get back the second rounder they traded to Chicago in the Jason Dickinson deal. They don't want to move away players who they're going to have to incentivize people to move. And instead, they're looking to, and again, it's not a teardown, but I think what they're willing to do is move a core player, at least one, to say, okay, maybe we can do it this way. And they've told people that's not Pedersen. Pedersen is the guy. And my first question was, wait a second, Hughes?

And what people said to me was the Canucks just said, look, it's not something we're looking to do. For example, Ron mentioned in the first intermission of the second game, Hughes on the block. And I was very careful to say, I don't believe that's the case. I just think that if you are interested in him and why wouldn't you be? Kidd's a hell of a player. It's going to take an enormous offer to get them out of there. But I just don't think he's untouchable like Patterson appears to be. But I think what this says to me is that the Canucks know if they're going to switch around their mix a bit and breathe new life into their roster, Jeff, they can't just make cap

dump deals without incentivizing people. So these are going to be moves then that replace one established player with another established player, two established players. These aren't going to be deals that are made for picks and prospects. That's not what Vancouver's interested in. The only thing I would say to that is, and this is just me talking as opposed to anything that anyone told me is, well, you could always trade somebody for picks and prospects if it gives you the cap room to do something else.

The reason I just said that it's not a full rebuild or teardown is because I could see them trading someone for picks and prospects if it gave them flexibility to make another move that helped them. I think one guy they're going to extend is Ethan Baer, and that's a move they made this year, and that's a guy who's going to extend is Ethan Baer. And that's a move they made this year. And that's a guy who's going to play for them for a bit. That's kind of what they want to do. You know, one of the interesting things here is one player who is still available to be traded, although that window closes in the off season, is JT Miller. Now, as we talked about when the

contract was signed, the trade protection didn't go backwards. Vancouver didn't choose to pick that up. They still have the flexibility to move JT Miller. So you would throw him into that bunch as well, even though he has a significant cap bump coming up after next season. You know, again, it's not like the Canucks are saying, yes, this is true.

No, that's not true. Here's our checklist of things that are right or wrong. All I can tell you is the information I got. And that's that they've made it very clear that the one untouchable is Patterson. One of the things, and I've heard Kelly talk about this before, and it always bears repeating. One of the eye-opening moments in Kelly's career, and you referenced it yesterday, was the conversation with Rogie Vachon when he was general manager of the Los Angeles Kings. And he asked about checking in on players. And Rogie essentially said, I talk about everybody every day. That's my job.

It's a bombshell report from last night, but I'm kind of under the impression, and maybe some general managers do it more than others. Like we know who the really aggressive managers are who are involved in, you know, the majority of conversations. I would throw Brad Treliving of Calgary into that mix. He's, you know, very, a really active general manager. I mean, isn't this just sort of part of the nature of being a manager in the NHL that you're talking about pretty much everybody on your roster all the time? Yes, I do think that's true, except I think the difference now is that I think Vancouver is motivated to do things. I think we should start calling this podcast 32 Thoughts Plus the Canucks Every Time, because it just seems to be that it goes that way.

This is a team that's motivated to do things. The other thing that someone said to me this morning, Jeff, was, you know who else must have really perked up when he heard that? JP Berry. Because who does JP Berry represent? Elias Patterson. Yes.

So cha-ching on July 1st. He's got one more year in his contract, but he's not an unrestricted free agent at the end of next season. He's two years away. They can extend them, but there's not an unrestricted free agent at the end of next season he's two years away they can extend them but there's also time yep you know jp barry is going through a very interesting negotiation right now with boston and david poster knock so there's no doubt that one is going to kind of affect the other and the other thing is we're sitting here and wondering we don't know yet where the cap is going to be next season,

but I think we do know that when Pedersen is eligible for unrestricted free agency, the cap is going to be hopefully significantly higher than it is now. To your point about calling this 32 thoughts plus Vancouver Canucks update, what do I always say about low-hanging fruit, Elliot? Eat it. Still nutritious. Even though it's low-hanging fruit elliot eat it still nutritious even though it's low-hanging it's still nutritious and the vancouver canucks as far as sports talk radio goes still very nutritious still a very nutritious okay um yesterday as well and this is probably

you know part should be part of a bigger conversation about the philadelphia flyers uh james van reams dyke um available. I believe he's been available for a while now as well. He's playing well. Scored last night even though the Flyers lost to the New York Rangers. Also in that game on Saturday night, Kevin Hayes is the healthy scratch. Lucas Sedlak before the game

placed on waivers for termination. He's gone back home. That was concluded on Sunday afternoon. Do you have a thought on either Van Reamsdyk, anyone else on the philadelphia flyers john tortorella benching kevin hayes and what's happening in philly land right now because last time i checked the paying customers are hot elliot the paying customers are hot on van reams dyke just first of all a player i always like dealing with. So I hope it works out for him. One of those guys who was very good about explaining things that happened out there for me.

And I always appreciated that about him. Last year around the draft, there were some talk about them moving him, but they were asked to include a first round pick for that to happen. And Philly was not willing to do that. You know, the one thing now is that Van Rievesdyk is getting to the end of his deal, right? And I think there have always been people who've been interested. It was just the term.

So I think this is going to happen eventually. He's the kind of guy who can score a big playoff goal for you. You know, just his cap hit is $7 million, right? So to me, it's one kind of guy who can score a big playoff goal for you. You know, just his cap hit is 7 million, right? So to me, it's one of those players who gets traded when we get closer to the deadline and just his cap hit shrinks by whatever percentage that is. I see it happening. It just might be simply a matter of time and the calendar. You know, as for Kevin Hayes, this is a guy who's on pace for 76 points.

Now, I've heard this has been brewing. I've heard that Tortorella has told Hayes before that he doesn't like the way he plays without the puck all the time and that they were headed in this direction if this didn't get better. So I don't think this comes as an enormous surprise to anyone around the organization

and possibly not even Hayes himself. But I still think you look at it when a guy is on pace for 76 points and is leading your team on scoring, there's something about that happening that really throws you for a loop. Like I'm sure in Tortorella's eyes, he's just sitting there and saying, I warned you, I warned you, I warned you, and it didn't get better. And Hayes, I'm sure, is sitting there, look, I'm scoring. This team isn't winning games.

How does it help the team? And I'm sure, you know, he's like any other player. He doesn't want to be benched. He wants to play. You know, the one thing is, too, Jeff, is I looked at Hayes' contract. In his deal, there's about $14 million in bonuses. Almost all of that is paid off. There's a $1.25 million bonus in the summer of 2024, and there's another $1.25 million bonus before the last year of his deal in the summer of 2025.

of his deal in the summer of 2025. Next year, there's no bonus. I have to tell you, I can't help but look at this contract and say, is this going to be a buyout at the end of the year? The end of the year, if he gets bought out, the contract stays for six more years. He'll make slightly more than $2 million a season on average the next three years would be the biggest cap hits 2.2 4.7 4.7 and then three years of 1.6 I'm looking at cap friendly I should credit cap friendly for this information and then maybe Kevin Hayes can go find somewhere else to play where you know he knows he'll be making some of this money and he can maybe start somewhere else. I, the one thing about Kevin Hayes is I really like to talk gingerly about him. He's been through a lot. We all know it. I don't want to be negative. I want

to be supportive. And, you know, John Tortorella is in year one of how many, if this is a marriage that's not going to work, this is the the solution where you know he gets bought out and starts somewhere else i can't help but wonder if that's what the future is here don't disagree with you at all the only thing that i do wonder about if that's where this thing is headed with kevin hayes and i know we're just sort of you know throwing this one around and speculating but if that's where where this thing is heading right now, I wonder if this is part of maybe even bigger sea change with the Philadelphia Flyers. A couple of weeks ago, we talked a lot about whether it was meetings or consultants around the organization and various

discussions about what's happening with this organization, which way does it need to go? Do you think that that could be part of a bigger plan to change the direction of the Philadelphia Flyers and, dare I say, maybe even go into a territory that the Philadelphia Flyers have never gone into, should I say the R word now? Rebuild? Flyers don't do that, thank very much but could they i think they should and to be honest jeff i don't think it's impossible i do believe that this has been something that has been discussed for a while now and i think there's always been a worry that at very high levels, they just don't want to do it. And now I think you can't help but look at it and say,

at some point in time, you're going to have to do it. You know, it's not as if they don't have decent prospects on the horizon as well. Cutter Gauthier looks really good. Cutter Gauthier is still playing at Boston College, but he's over a point a game player. I think we all understand that Cam York's going to be a

really good NHL-er. They think that they really have something in the net mind to Erson that he could be a goalie of the future for the Philadelphia Flyers as well. So it's not as if you're looking at this organization and saying, and whatever draft pick you can pick up this year, like maybe you win the lottery and you get Conor Bedard or you get

Leo Carlson or you get Adam Fantilli or whomever to say nothing of the quality pieces you already have there in the lineup. I don't know what this one has to be a lengthy one either. Like there are already some players that are, you know, getting close to stepping in here. I don't think this needs to be like a long, you know,

four or five year rebuild. I think it's probably only a couple of seasons for the Philadelphia Flyers. Don't you? If you do it right. If you do it right. And you get some luck along the way. Yeah. And Elliot Dana,

by the way, looks really good for the Philadelphia. He's going to be a good player for the future. Anyhow, Elliot, I want to get to the New York Rangers here in a couple of seconds. But first, the Nashville Predators are not a 500 team in the NHL. What is happening in Nashville? How concerned should everybody be there right now? I'm a little bit concerned there.

I am. They've been banged up. Last year when I watched Nashville, I admit I didn't little bit concerned there. I am. You know, they've been banged up. Last year when I watched Nashville, I admit I didn't watch them a ton and I started watching them a bit more in the last week when they were really struggling. I really felt that they dragged themselves into games. Like everybody who's rookie of the year last year

was Moritz Seider. Yeah. Who was second on your ballot? I can't't recall but i think you're probably nudging me towards tanner janeau i think he wasn't i think he was in my top five like try to be a partner and actually work with me here well i can't recall but i'm pretty sure i had tanner janeau hi how about that thank you thank you jeff i really appreciate you If we were playing Euchre right now, you'd be the worst partner I've ever played with. It's like that episode of The Simpsons.

I think he's talking to you. That's right. The WPP, Witness Protection Program. You know, there were games last year where I thought Janot and his line mates and some of their depth forwards, they dragged the team into games. That third line was great.

They really were, Elliot. They were fantastic. I really watched Nashville playing last year because I thought they had a real joie de vivre. I really did. I thought there was a real spirit there. There was a real underdog mentality. I really looked at them, and I saw a group that played

above the sum of its parts. And I don't think they were beating Colorado in the playoffs last year. I don't think that was happening. But I was disappointed for them in the postseason because I think when Soros got hurt, I think they were really robbed of a chance to give Colorado a battle. It just wasn't set up well. You're not beating Colorado without use of sorrows.

I'm sorry. It's just not happening. But this year, I'm not blaming it on the depth forwards because I think that's crazy. But that Elan, that spirit that they had last year, it's just not there this year. You know, the Predators are one of the lowest scoring teams in the nhl too ryan johansson took a tough penalty the other night that john hines didn't like

and he got benched for a good chunk of the third period like there's a lot of guys who had really good years last year that are not having good years this year. And I always wonder about David Poyle in those kinds of situations. He's a really fearless guy. Like, I don't think Nashville's another team that's really interested in rebuilds. You know, I see Craig Smith on waivers today, and I don't know that the Predators have the cap room to do this I mean that's why Tolvanen got lost they didn't have the cap space but I I gotta think that on some level they've got to be thinking about it and I'm sure their fans are definitely thinking about it Smith is a good player Jeff he started with Nashville like well what someone said to me was he's just not a good mix with Montgomery what Montgomery likes and what Smith does it's just not a good mix with Montgomery. What Montgomery likes and what Smith does, it's just not a fit.

And he said it's not anyone's fault. He said Smith is a good player, and Montgomery's obviously doing a great job there. I mean, how can you complain? They're first in the NHL. Jack Adams. But some people are just not fits, and Boston's obviously tried to move them.

They want to keep their cap flexibility, And, you know, Boston's obviously tried to move them. They want to keep their cap flexibility, but I wonder if there's any level where the Predators would consider doing this just to give themselves a jolt. The thing about the Nashville Predators, and this is historical as well, going back to the beginnings of the organization,

this has always been a team that's put a premium on two positions, goaltending and blue line. Yes. Right? It's been a goalie factory. It's been a blue that's put a premium on two positions, goaltending and blue line. Yes. Right. It's been a goalie factory. It's been a blue line factory. The one place where, and you know, there have been, there have been times, you know, where they've used high picks to draft players, Walt Holvenen, who they just lost to Seattle,

where they've drafted, you know, who they thought were going to turn into, you know, young scorers, you know, Phil Tomasino, we think of going back to 2019. Joachim Kemmel, who they drafted in the first round at the last draft, what a shot that kid has. We'll see what works out there. But that's always been the one area where Nashville has had a really hard time. They've never really been able to draft

and develop those elite level scorers. Now let's not forget Philip Forsberg was a trade. That was a Martin Erat deal with the Washington Capitals, but that's been the one place where they've always fallen down. Goalies, amazing. Defensemen, elite. Forwards that can score. Yes.

It's always been an organization that struggled in that department. They've always had to buy them, Elliot. They've never been able to draft and develop them. Some teams have their identities, right? And that's definitely Nashville's. I loved watching them last year because they would start games bad and Hines would throw out one of those depth lines and they would drag the rest of the team into the game.

And the more I think about that this year, it's a really hard way to win because at some point in time, your best players have to take the lead. And you look at last year, their top players, a lot of them had marvelous career seasons, the career seasons that you kind of hope they have. You know, Matt Duchesne last season had 86 points. Roman Yossi had 96 points. Philip Forsberg had 84 points. Ryan Johansson had 63 points, which isn't a huge total, but that's a good number for him.

Now I look at them this year and where they are, you know, Forsberg still got 25 points in 29 games. Duchesne has 23 points in 29 games. Yossi has 23 points in 29 games. Those are still decent numbers, but they aren't the point of game players that they were last year. And I think for that team to be successful, all of those guys were above point of game players last year. And they need that from those guys. I just think as a group last year, they overachieved. And they overachieved, I think, a lot because of the attitude

that they played with. And this year, they can't get to that same level. And they're beating the teams they're supposed to beat, but they're not beating the teams ahead of them. Elliot, let's park a little bit of time here and talk about the New York Rangers, who have now won seven games in a row ever since that eventful loss

against the Chicago Blackhawks back on December 3rd, which featured a very interesting interplay between Andreas Athanasiu and Jacob Truba, which continued into tonight's game. The New York Rangers have rattled off wins against the Blues, the Knights, the Avalanche, the Devils, the Leafs, the Flyers Saturday, and the Chicago Blackhawks on Sunday evening.

Front and center, Adam Fox, who was outstanding. The kids were exceptional. Vitaly Kratsov got into the action as well Jacob Truba scores he's got goals in back-to-back games and we talked about the interplay between him and Andreas Athanasiu and if you can read lips Jacob Truba going to Athanasiu and saying do you want the puck after he scored was pretty spicy anyway your thoughts on the Rangers these days someone said to me that instead of calling them the kid line, they're calling them the boys to men line now,

which I thought was pretty funny when I heard that. Hopefully, Hedl's okay. He took a big hit from Sam Lafferty. Lafferty, by the way, is a guy I think who was on the Oilers radar. Bob Stauffer mentioned that in one of the Oilers broadcasts, and I'm loathe to give Stauffer credit for anything, but I think he's right about that one. Rangers are going now, and the other thing, too,

is if you look at their schedule, and as you said, they've won seven in a row, they're like the reverse Nashvilles. You know, we talk about the Predators a little bit, and they've beaten all the teams they should beat and have lost all the teams ahead of them. The Rangers are the reverse. They've lost to all the teams they should beat, and they've beaten all the teams they should beat and have lost all the teams ahead of them. The Rangers are the reverse. They've lost all the teams they should beat and they've beaten all the good teams.

I love that Trouba Athanasiou thing. I think that's the kind of thing that happens six days a week in the NBA and nobody would blink an eye at it because everybody takes everything so personally there. So I don't mind it happening in the NHL. Everything's so personally there. So I don't mind it happening in the NHL. And to be perfectly honest, I think if you're going to be a good team in this league, you have to have like a little bit of a prick-like behavior in you. I just don't think you can be a really good team in the NHL without it. I was having a really interesting conversation with someone about Gerard Gallant.

And a lot of the analytically inclined fans of the NHL really don't like Gallant and we were talking about that and I have to say I'm not surprised because I don't think that's something that really appeals to him I think he's a guy who's really based on feel I think I've said this before I did a coaches association panel with him last year at the draft. And I asked him what really annoys him as a coach. And his answer was, I don't like it when we get pushed around. I think that says a lot about who he is and what he values and how he thinks. He wants a team that will stand up for himself. You don't have to go out of your way to look for fights or whatever it is. I think you're only going to make him happy as a coach if you compete. And if he doesn't think you're

competing, you're not going to get the rewards or the spot that you may think you deserve or others think you deserve. And you know, sometimes you have to do things out of necessity and sometimes you have to try things because you just have to. But I think one of the reasons some of the analytically inclined fans don't get him or they don't understand about him is as long as he's in charge, that's what he's going to do. If he feels you're giving him everything, he can handle the mistakes. But it's when he feels you're not giving him everything and you're not competing to the level that you're capable of. That's when you run afoul of him.

And I look at everything he does through that lens. One player in the Rangers organization to keep an eye on, it's a guy by the name of Adam Sikora. So Adam Sikora was the Rangers' second round pick. They didn't have a first in last year's draft. So he's a second round pick. So a really nice player.

Like I like Adam Sikora a lot. He'll be playing for Slovakia at the World Junior Hockey Championships. It was the first overall pick in the CHL's import draft last July. Medicine Hat Tigers have his rights. Now over the last little while while there's been talk about the rangers maybe bringing him over to play in north america and medicine hat is not a team that's

really doing things right now there is uh as i understand it a deal in place between the medicine hat tigers and the saskatoon blades who at the break are, I think it's 24-5 or 25-4, something like that. They're really good. They're a top 10 CHL team. There's a deal in place, so if the Rangers do bring him over and they already signed him to his three-year entry-level deal, that trade will be activated,

and he'll be a member of the Saskatoon Blades. Some are saying, yeah, he might come over after World Juniors. Some are saying he's going to stay in Slovakia and play there. We'll see just one of the, one of the Rangers prospects to, to keep an eye on here. I think there's a lot of Rangers fans who

would love to hear that because I bet it would give them a better opportunity to see him. Absolutely. You know, something else I heard, we've talked about how the senators have looked at every possible defenseman you can think

of yes I think one of the guys they at least asked about and I don't think it went anywhere but I thought it was interesting I think that one of the guys they asked about was Seth Jones like they just made a call and said would there be and and they've dealt with with Chicago before the brinkett deal yeah I think they just called and just felt it out. And I don't think it's happening. I don't think it's going anywhere. But I heard that on the weekend. They're calling on everybody, and they called on Seth Jones.

But I just don't think it's happening. You know, another team we should probably park some attention around are the Carolina Hurricanes. So a couple of really good games over the weekend. One-goal games. Saturday, 4-3 against the Dallas Stars. Martin Natchez with the overtime heroics. Pesci takes down Marchment, but Natchez will get to the puck.

Natchez has got Svechnikov with him. They're motoring into the star zone. Natchez, backhand, Svechnikov, rolls one, Wedgwood with a save, still out in front. Natchez scores! Martin Natchez ends it in overtime. And then Sunday. Hurricanes come up with two goals in the third period, and they stay on fire.

Points in 11 consecutive games. 3-2. They beat the Pittsburgh Penguins. The Carolina Hurricanes have now won five games in a row and a pair of back-to-back really good games this weekend. Freedian Chris Letang, maybe with the play of the night, stopping that empty netter. Holy smokes, what a play by him. Anyway, thoughts on the Carolina Hurricanes as we speak.

The guy who I thought took over that game in the third period was Jordan Stahl. Now, Stahl is an unrestricted free agent, this senior, but I don't think he's going to hit the market. I think he's going to sign. I was just going over my list recently. Okay, here's the guys to start watching, and I made a couple calls on Stahl, and people were telling me he's staying and they're going to get that done.

So we'll see where that goes. But he got two points in the third period. One was an assist after Letang knocked him off his feet but he has scored the game-winning goal leaves it for Stahl Stahl stopping and starting back to the point Shea just chops at one it finds Jesper Foster in front for Stahl he scores and he made the effort on that play where LeTang did an unbelievable job to prevent it from going in. Stahl puts Carolina in the lead. 3-2, 6-27, left in the third.

But here's something for you. I think it's three or four times, Jeff. But if you watch that game at the end, when Pittsburgh has the net pulled, Jeff. But if you watch that game at the end, when Pittsburgh has the net pulled, Jordan Stahl beats Sidney Crosby either three or four straight times in the face-off circle.

Face-offs, yeah, I saw that. That man is a horse. I still remember when he was very young in his career, I can't remember if he was a rookie, but Mike Kadar was the strength coach in Pittsburgh and I went to a game there and he had a sled strapped to him in a hallway and he was pulling weights down the hallway and you could tell he loved it.

And Mike Kedar told me there was nobody on that team and stall had to be, I can't remember if it was 19 or 20 at the time. He was really young, but he said to me, there's nobody on our team who can do this better and can pull more than jordan stall and all these years later was this 15 years later 14 years later the man is still a horse he could play for me anytime do you remember his nickname with the pittsburgh penguins i believe given to him by colby armstrong is it something we can say on this podcast is it possibly offensive? Okay. No, it's not.

From your Marvel Comics late, Gronk. Oh, Gronk. It was the nickname that Colby gave him. He's really something else. And Natchez has been excellent too. He nearly scored a beautiful goal in the first period. He's the guy who was going to Calgary in the Matthew Kachuk deal if that got done. And he's been much, much better this year.

They've always recognized his talent. I think they were disappointed in him last year. But that's a team. I think they've got three guys averaging a point per game. I can't believe Taravainen only scored his first goal on Saturday. I'm really curious to see if they're going to move a goalie because Kachukov won again and I think he's ready, but I have to tell you, I really like them. I was watching Stahl on Sunday afternoon and I was saying, boy, this guy,

he's still a beast, man. He is still a beast. So a couple of things there. Kachetkov is my pick for goaltender to fight Jordan Binnington. If there's any goalie out there that's going to take on Binnington, because you know he's itching for one, and they don't face off against each other until February, I believe. Kachetkov's my guy. Everything needs to break the right way, and there has to be an issue in the game and some heat, and both Binnington and Kachetkov will have to start, or at least be in the game at the same time. But that would be my pick.

To Natchez, he's really turned it around. How long was he in the doghouse with Rod Brindamore, Freed? Yes. Like for a while. And now, I don't think anyone's ever denied how much skill he has. That's a really skilled team. And you mentioned Terravine and he's just pure skill. But when you break down the pure skill of

Martin Natchez, you probably could make the argument he might be the most skilled player on that team. And that's a team that's loaded with high skill. But, you know, you mentioned, you know, he would have been the player going to Calgary if the Carolina Calgary deal would have

gone through involving Matthew Kachuk. He should actually be a Buffalo Sabre. The day before the first round, the 2017 NHL draft, the Buffalo Sabres, all the scouts and managers had agreed that if he's available, Martin Natchez was going to be the pick at eighth overall. And then at the last minute, the audible was called and they decided to go the Casey Middlestat route instead.

Why don't you just keep lighting Buffalo on fire? First Chikrin and now this. Chikrin still fits and I believe they're still in that mix as well. But that would have been an interesting one. You throw Martin Natchez on a team with Cage Thompson and Jeff Skinner and Jack Quinn and, and, and, and, and the abundance of riches

they have in youth. That really would have been something. Anyway, didn't happen. They got Middlestat. Carolina got Natchez. He falls to 12 and Carolina's pretty happy about that one. Can I, can I give you another one then?

Since we're, someone said they wouldn't tell me who the team was. You're just going story for story now? Yeah. There was a team that could have had Tate Thompson a couple of years ago for a fifth rounder and didn't do it. Hang on, fifth rounder from, well, there was a team that could have had Tage Thompson a couple years ago for a fifth rounder and didn't do it.

Hang on, fifth rounder from while he was with Buffalo or St. Louis? With Buffalo when he was struggling. Ouch. And I said, you have to tell me who this is. And he said, I'm not telling you. And I said, I will kidnap you and pump you full of truth serum until you tell me. He told me this story because we're all raving about Thompson right now.

We're all interviewing his dad. You interviewed him for your radio show. I interviewed him for the blog. And it's great for Brent and Tage. But he just said this was about two or three years ago that he was available for a fifth round pick. And there's at least, there's at least one team that said no. And all he said was it's a really good team.

And he just, he used it as a, an example of this is such an inexact science sometimes and how wrong a lot of people were on, on Tage Thompson. Rick, what can you tell us about the nature of blake's injury well he's had a procedure and he is probably out at least four weeks as are everyone else on our injured list we don't expect anyone coming back in the next three weeks at all three to four weeks but bl But Blake, yeah, you give him 100% a lot of credit to come back and play in the third period like he did. He was one tough cookie, man.

He'll play through everything. This is something that had to be dealt with. It's dealt with, and we need him to have a speedy recovery and get him back on the ice and in the room as quick as we can. Can we talk about Blake Wheeler for a second, by the way? Why not? Let's do it. Blake Wheeler, Winnipeg Jets. You're coming right back to that you're not gonna let this go uh was it yesterday like it wasn't it was no it was yesterday yeah my old high school friends

called me on uh on sunday and he said you have no memory of this do you and i go what are you talking about so for those of you who didn't see it wheeler took a shot in a very sensitive area the groin on thursday night against nashville and he had to have surgery and i suspect what he had to have surgery for was not a very pretty thing. The stupidest argument I ever saw in my life was in university where a bunch of us went on, I guess it was like a quintuple date because there were like five couples and we were arguing over what was more painful, getting hit there or childbirth. It was quite honestly, Jeff, the stupidest argument in the history of mankind i always like what carol burnett said about childbirth she described it as taking your bottom lip and wrapping it around your face that's what she said it felt like my

position is these are both incredibly painful and nobody needs to argue about who the bigger hero is here. Right. Yeah. So, so anyway, so this guy, he reminded me that, you know, we used to play when the weather was good enough at afterschool at York Mills collegiate in Toronto,

there was Banbury park. I think it was. And we always used to go play baseball there after every day, the weather was good. We'd go play. There was a group of us. We'd go play baseball. Oh no.

And he said, one day, did you take a hard grounder this is actually uh worse so it wasn't me it wasn't me but he reminded me that there was one guy uh it was like the bottom of the ninth or extra names but it was a tie game one guy was coming around third and we threw home and I don't remember the play exactly, but the guy was going around third. He knew he couldn't score. He tried to get back to third. Whoever was catching fired it to third and hit the guy right where it hurts.

And the throw went into like left field. His teammates were like, you have to run. We need the run to score here to win. They made him run? Can he crawl? Again, I don't really remember this. I kind of remember it a bit, but they said we concede the run because the throw went into left field, but you have to get home for it to count.

So that's what happened. But I'm looking at Wheeler and realizing kind of what he went through. It's incredible that he played the third period that game. Like this year, Columbus had a game and Nick Blankenberg, he broke his ankle. And he finished that game because Columbus was basically down to four defensemen and then he was out six to eight weeks like just incredible commitment and that's a guy who's trying to make it in the NHL I don't think there's a single person alive who would blame Blake Wheeler for saying you know what I'm not playing the third period of this game and he did just amazing like absolutely amazing.

You remember Patrick Thorson? Yes, I remember that one. Remember the Mike Green shot? Yeah, the block shot. Yeah. Oh! That's the one that, when you mention that,

that's the one that I think of. Oh, just Wheeler, like, incredible, incredible. Listen to 32 Thoughts, the podcast, ad-free free on amazon music included with prime here's mcdavid on the right wing now into the blues and through the middle he lost it dry sidle to mcdavid to dry sidle the safe scores leon dry sidle got his own rebound He lost it. Dreisaitl to McDavid. To Dreisaitl. The save. Scores! Leon Dreisaitl got his own rebound. And the Oilers win it.

4-3 in overtime. The Situation Room in Toronto has initiated a challenge to review the play for offside prior to the goal. Offside. After reviewing the play, it was determined the play was offside. There is no goal. You know, Elliot, you know what they would call that in UK football? Controversy. Let's go back to Thursday, okay? We're going to try to keep this podcast as current as possible.

You do the wrong side first, and I will set you straight with the right answer second you want me to go first on this one yeah you you set out the wrong side of the debate first the offside review for the disallowed leon dreisleiter goal in overtime thursday st louis blues edmonton oilers now i believe the call was made correctly not only do i think the call was made correctly, Elliot, I think it was a really easy one to make as well. The issue is control. And I think the caveat here that some people may miss out on is control before the blue line and after the blue line. Control has to be from outside the zone into the zone. And in my opinion, and I think a lot of this is going to come down to opinion,

McDavid didn't have control going over and into the offensive zone of the St. Louis Blues. To me, that's the right call. McDavid went skates first, puck second. You can do that if you're in the process of stick handling, for example. Although the NHL kind of does, they're pretty warm to the idea that you have to have the puck on the stick.

But in this situation, it wasn't that. To me, it was lack of control going into the zone. That is the right take. That is the sane take. Now give us your take, Elliot. So that's the wrong answer. And my answer starts with it's Connor McDavid. You can't look at it that way.

Wait a sec. You had your chance to speak. I disagree with you. I think you should look at it that way. Connor McDavid knows exactly what he's doing. That's why it's Connor McDavid. And I do think you have to give the benefit of the doubt to great players. Like the NHL rule book has a lot of places in it where it's open to interpretation.

There is a ton of interpretation in the NHL rule book. As a matter of fact, I think there's way too much interpretation in the NHL rule book. And I wish there was less. But because there's so much of it I think you should look at the rules this way and I think you should look at Connor McDavid and say when he cuts to the middle there against Ryan O'Reilly he knows exactly what he's up to and I think that should be 100% part of the judgment now I also have a picture here i've taken of the nhl rule book and one of the things they talk about in offside a player actually controlling the puck who shall cross

the line ahead of the puck shall not be considered offside provided he had possession and control of the puck prior to his skates crossing the edge of the blue line. I think Connor McDavid has that. I think he has possession and control before he crosses the edge of the blue line. I think he knows exactly what he's doing. He's cutting to the middle. And the only reason I think this is even a question is because Ryan O'Reilly gets stick on stick in the offensive zone and then McDavid doesn't get the puck again. But the way I read that rule is because McDavid had possession and control when he crossed the line, it should count because he didn't lose it

until after it was stick on stick in the offensive zone. So A, I'm going with the way the rule reads and b i'm going with jeff it's connor mcdavid again first of all so if you're just going to say well it's connor mcdavid so we have to give him the benefit of the doubt the national extension of that is well i guess offside doesn't count for connor mcdavid or the blue lines vanish when connor mcdavid has the puck i just read the rule to you he has has it. He does not lose possession and control until he's in the offensive zone. The puck is not on his stick from behind the blue line

until the hash marks. Part of that is demonstrating control. Are you arguing with me that Connor McDavid doesn't have possession and control of the puck when he gets, he knows exactly what he's doing. He's had the puck he's making a move i am sorry but connor mcdavid he may not have his stick on the pot that's not the issue but connor mcdavid has has possession and control when he crosses that blue line and

then when o'reilly hits him gets stick on stick yeah which is not a foul. It's a clean play. That's when he loses control. And that's after he's over the blue line. And by the rule I just read, he's on side. Now, I will say this, Jeff. I know I'm in the minority on this one. I had a lot of people who said to me that McDavid's offside and that call was good. I don't care if I'm spitting into the wind i think that

should be a goal listen i understand because it's connor mcdavid i get that but when you're an official you can't look at the number and the name plate and assume we're not talking about the officials we're talking about the replay reviewers fine that was probably a call that should have been made in real time i'm on the steve eiserman side of this debate a few years ago steve eiserman said at one of the gm meetings that the officials on the ice should always lean to on side because that's what the replay review is for is to catch the split second misses right now i think a lot of us feel it's kind of gone too far but that's what it's there for he He argued at a GM meeting that if it's close, the officials should let it go.

If it's offside, review will catch it. And I agree with that. We want goals. I am pro goal. I love goals. I make out with goals, okay? I want them to be counted. So I have no issue with the linesman on this play

none zero let's just say because justice is blind or supposed to be blind here elliot you take the number and the name played away and it's not connor mcdavid that's the way you have to look at it okay this is not connor mcdav is fourth line player, Mr. X, fourth line player. I want you to pick a fourth liner to insult on this podcast who calls you angrily. No, I know that's what's going to happen too. I'd say a miscellaneous fourth line player who you would swear when he stick handles the puck, it has corners.

That's how awkward it looks like when he stick handles the puck. When did the puck turn into a square? This is bizarre. Oh, it's that guy again. Just say that it's not Connor McDavid because that's the way you need to look at it. Because as an official or if you're doing the review, you can't look at it and say, well, McDavid knows

what he's doing. We all know McDavid knows what he's doing. I don't think that that should enter this part of the equation, enter this part of the discussion at all. You need look at that not as if it's conor mcdavid but if it's just generic player x otherwise why does conor mcdavid have to be on side at all then he knows what he's doing no now you're being ludicrous like that's ludicrous i don't think it is wrong to say that in a sport, I'm going to end this where I started it. Number one, you read that rule. I just read out to you.

And I think he has possession when he gains the blue line and control. Even if he doesn't have this puck on his stick, he's making a move. He knows what he's doing. That's number one. And number two, I'm sorry, but in a rule book full of interpretation and the NHL rule book is full of interpretation, I don't see anything wrong with anyone saying that's Conor McDavid. He knows exactly what he's doing. Let me ask you one more thing about, because you know how much I love making your eyes roll back when I suggest rule changes.

When I accept, not just rule changes, but massaging of the rules. I think it was on this podcast not too long ago, I was grousing about overtime just turning into a collection of neutral zone regroups. If we don't have the perfect shot, we're regrouping in the neutral zone, regrouping, regrouping, out of the zone, out of the zone. Considering it's not hockey, because we don't see it in the playoffs, we don't see it in, it's three on three, okay's fun we love it it's wildly entertaining but the coaches have their grips into this thing you know we've always batted around the idea of taking offside out of the game losing the blue lines to to create more space and to create

more offense you say you want to take goals out to dinner you know pour something in a brandy snifter back at your tastefully decorated condo and make out with goals. That's you, Elliot Friedman on a Friday night. What about the idea of no blue lines in overtime? I would be happy to see it in an exhibition game or an R&D camp or something like that. Just so we can escape the endless parade. I'd want to see what it looks like first.

So do I. But again, that comes back to this, our fantasy of wanting a yearly R&D camp program in the off season. I don't disagree with you, Jeff. And you know what else I think about when watching that play? Oh my.

Ryan O'Reilly's still got it. He does. There's been a lot of people who've been undressed By Connor McDavid in three on three Good players who've been embarrassed To your point about that zone entry Elliot As I always love to tell you My friend I'd agree with you if you were right

Okay Elliot clean up a couple things from late last week What did you make of that schedule story 82 turns into 84. You talked about this Saturday. Well, as we spoke about on Friday's pod, I did think they were talking about schedule, but I just don't think that report was the right thing they were looking at.

I don't think they're looking at six to eight rivalry games per season. That's not what they want. I think Greg Wyshynski's report, and it kind of annoyed me because I was working on it for Saturday, and I think he nailed it. It's not what they want. I think Greg Wyshynski's report, and it kind of annoyed me because I was working on it for Saturday, and I think he nailed it. It's always tough when you're working on something for Saturday and somebody gets the story on a Friday. Ding.

But yeah, Greg was bang on. I think there is a proposal floating around, and I do think there is a push for it, that the schedule goes from 82 to 84. The preseason drops from a maximum eight games now to four or five. And what it goes is 28 games against the other seven teams in your own division, 24 teams against, so eight times three in the other division in your conference, and 16 times two for 32 in the other conference and that works to 84 like somebody who's better at math than me in the league told me like you could do 82 relatively easily with 30 you can't do 82 as easily with 32 but you can as we showed do 84 i do think there are conversations about that i think the league is willing to entertain that.

I think the teams are willing to entertain that. Obviously, this conversation has to come with the players, but I don't think it's impossible that the players would entertain that. I mean, it all comes down to how is everybody willing to grease everybody else's back, but I haven't heard any no's. I think the other thing, too too with the preseason games is, look, number one, ask any paying season ticket holder there or sponsor or anyone who has any kind of season pack,

would you rather pay for two more regular season games or four or whatever it is preseason games? You're going to take the regular season games. It'll piss off your fans a little bit less. The way it goes now with a lot of these preseason games is at home, you dress a good lineup and on the road, you don't. And there are more and more teams who just don't like that. There's too many players who have too much of an incentive to try a lot harder on the road against your good players than your good players have

incentive to play hard. And I think people just don't like what that opens up. I think the negative is for players who want to make an impact or you want to see a young player or an AHL guy gets once more of an opportunity to play. And I get get that but i think overwhelmingly there's just too many reasons to cut the preseason the nfl went to 17 regular season games now they cut their preseason games from four to three unless you play in the hall of fame game then you still play four but i think there's a lot of interest in this it's just a matter of what everyone has to trade to get there yeah i think it's uh from the players association point of view i believe it's to your point less pre-season games and actually shorter training camp as well i think you uh you cap the number of pre-season games and you shrink

the amount of time that the players are in training camp as well i think that's i think that warms the players up to this one and also jeff they don't make the season longer that's not happening right they're not going longer at the end i wonder elliot if we found our new jason dickinson because for the longest time every single podcast we had a jason dickinson update is the new jason dickinson the salary cap because this story ain't going away jacob chikrin because because every time kevin sees you he goes you're going to say Jacob Chikrin because every time Kevin sees you, he goes, are you going to talk about Chikrin tonight? Do you have a Chikrin update?

You got a Chikrin update? Larry Brooks in the New York Post had a really good column on Sunday that I think has a lot to do with this. One of the things that Bettman did do when they were sort of redoing the CBA before the bubble and COVID, he did say to the players, we can pay down this debt sooner, but you'll have to take a higher escrow.

And a lot of the top players, the vast majority of players, especially ones who were signed to big long-term deals, they wanted no part of that. The player vote internally or the player feeling internally was overwhelmingly against that hold on a second here yes veteran players throwing younger players under the bus

in a cba negotiation this is unheard of in the nhl players association elliot i've i've never heard of this before well you know i will say this jeff you know you're not wrong to say that but people who've kind of been around for a long time, and let me preface this by saying there could be a little bit of get off my lawn kind of conversation here. I've told the story before about the big fight years ago in a locker room where, you know, every year the players had the opportunity to put an inflator or an escalator, whatever you want to call it, on the cap. Raise it by another 5%. And there was a time when the players were doing really well under that and their escrow started to go up. And finally one year, a very prominent player in one room, the team captain, said, I don't want to use the inflator this year. I'm tired of my escrow going up and

losing more salary i'm voting against it and another very good player looked at him and said oh so i'm a free agent this summer so all of a sudden when you're to sign a new contract yeah exactly you get the maximum space available but now I'm free and I don't. And to his credit, the captain turned and said, you know what, you're right, I back down. And that was the way it went for a long time. In this situation, that's not what happened. A vast majority of the players said,

no, we're tired of this and we're not doing it. I will say this, I'm not as convinced that Bettman is saying, I warned you guys. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but it is a fact that this was presented to them and they said, no. Like I said to you on Sunday, some people think I have a real tinfoil hat about this, that there's going to be a negotiation about something. Others say it's just simply him protecting the owners and saying we're getting the debt paid i still think there's going to be a conversation about this somewhere somewhere what do you say to the uh the sentiment that from a players association point of view they shouldn't offer anything because it's mutually

beneficial because the teams are screaming for more space themselves. I think every theory is valid and every idea is valid. It's like when I speak to young people who are going into the business, there are people who say, you shouldn't have to put up with any BS on social media. And I say, you're right, you shouldn't, but you will. That's the way the world is now. Somebody actually sent me a tweet today that I liked. It was actually really funny. There was a guy who said years ago when social media started, it was an escape from the real world. And now the real world's the escape from social

media. It's pretty funny, actually. That's really good. I got a good laugh out of that. So I say to young people people yes should social media should be a fun place where and people shouldn't take huge runs at you and people shouldn't say awful things to you but it's just not the way it is like that's who we are now and that's what's out there and you're right it should just be a conversation let's raise it if we both agree but we both know that that's not the real world. And the only way that all of this is going to work out, the 84 games, the increased cap, is if the two sides get together and decide they get enough out of the other side

that they want to say yes. It's interesting you mention that because on my way to Hockey Night yesterday, I was having a conversation with a younger person and she's looking to get into the business. And the first thing that I said to her is I want you to go. And I always offer this as advice to anyone who's looking to get into this industry. And I always say, go to your dictionary, take it out of the bookshelf and go to the page that has the word fair on it and tear it out of the dictionary, crumple it up, and throw it away. Fair is the cruelest word in the dictionary if you want to work in this industry.

You will never get what's fair. You will only get what you negotiate. And I think that's the spirit of what we're talking about here. The teams are not going to like to hear this, and the players are not going to like to hear this. But this isn't going to get decided for a while. As in every situation, I'm always curious about timing. And I think there's a reason that now, mind you, it wasn't the board of governors, so it probably was coming. But I think there's a reason that this was mentioned publicly in December

when there's still a lot of time to make a decision on this. You know what I mean, Fridge? Yeah. Okay. Quick pause. After the break, we get to your voicemails. We get to your emails. That's next. All right, get it before it's gone. Visit the Sportsnet shop to get your 32 Thoughts merchandise. That's hoodies, that's teas, crewnecks, even a coffee mug that changes color when you fill it up with your go-to warm beverage. It changes color when you fill it up with your go-to warm beverage.

Visit www.shopsportsnet.store to get your 32 gear today. www.shopsportsnet.store Jeff, I can't believe you would bring up Teddy Bear Night and not mention that it came to be in the early 90s in Kamloops with the Blazers. Given your love of junior hockey, I thought you would at least mention that it started in the Western Hockey League. But great tradition. Glad you mentioned it. Thank you. Okay, first of all, thanks for that. Second of all, I was always under the impression, and I've only recently been corrected on this, that this was started with the Kitchener Rangers in the OHL.

Now, I'm not surprised, Elliot, that it was started in the Western League with the Kamloops Blazers, and I think we've mentioned a couple of times that nobody does teddy bear toss as a league better than the Western Hockey League. Like, there are tens of thousands of bears that hit the ice during WHL games. Although I believe the record for most bears is like 52,000 set by the Hershey Bears of the American Hockey League. But yes, Kamloops Blazers, as I understand,

I think it was 92. They were the ones that started this tradition. So thank you for that. By the way, Daryl Ray said to me, he wants you to start talking more about the WHL so I wonder if that's Daryl Ray putting on a fake voice and calling that one in. All right, there you go.

Well, wait, we spent like almost half of an entire podcast talking about Conor Bedard not too long ago so take that, Razor. You got your Regina Patz Western Hockey League conversation going and I don't think the Bedard conversation is going to end anytime soon, Elliot. That was a call at 1-833-311-3232. That is our phone line.

Emails at 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca. In that spirit, I want to get to some emails and some calls, but I am going to kind of go, well, call my own audible on this one because I'm curious what you would respond with. So on the radio show last week, I sent out a general mailbag, any questions, shoot them in. And there was a really interesting one from a guy by the name of Jeff

who said, and I'm paraphrasing here because I don't have the tweet in front of me, if you could be anywhere for any game in history, where would it be? Now, the way I answered this one, because I am forever interested in these two games. To me, they seemed alike and sounded like, and I believe them to be, the two most intense hockey games in the history of the sport. It is March 21st and 28th, 1969 in Sweden. It is the World Championships. It is Czechoslovakia versus the Soviet Union. Both games won by Czechoslovakia.

2-0 is the first game. 4-3 is the second game. And in that first game, the 1-0 goal, Jan Suchy, who we've talked about before, as being the Czechoslovakian Bobby Orr, you know, one of the greatest to never play in the NHL. He scores the 1-0 game. Many of you have seen the highlights. And Jaroslav Holik, Bobby Holik's father, sticks his hockey stick in Viktor Zinger,

who's the goaltender for the Soviet Union, sticks it in his face. Someone else knocks the net off the moorings. The tanks had just rolled into Prague, down the cobblestone streets in 1968. And we always talk about the metaphor of refuse to lose and leave it all out there. And there were no metaphors in these games. Everything that you heard from the Czechoslovakian hockey players, they meant.

That was a game without metaphor. All sports are filled with metaphors, Elliot. I've always felt that those two would be the two games that did not have metaphors at all. Everything the Czechoslovakians said they wanted to do is what they really wanted to do. And there was no way that that team was going to lose to the powerhouse Soviets and they didn't. So that's how I answered it. How would you answer it? Any game? I think that's a great pick because I mean, the obvious pick for me is game eight, 1972. To me,

it's the biggest game in hockey history, right? To me, it is like, I would go game one. No game eight with a, with all on the line. Game one is a terrible pick.

Game one's great pick. Your world championship pick is a great call because it's not an obvious answer. And it's a an obvious answer and it's a really big game. One of the off the beaten path sporting events I would love to see if I could was a similar kind of thing. There's a very famous water polo match from 1956. It's called the blood in the water match.

It's Hungary and the Soviet union. And it was right in the aftermath of the water match it's hungary and the soviet union and it was right in the aftermath of the hungarian revolution they called blood in the water because it was a dirty dirty match and somebody actually got bloodied at the end of the game like that's the kind of thing i'm with you on that so i mean for to be honest i have to say if I could have been anywhere, I might have been at that World Cup final on Sunday. That was incredible. Holy smokes. What a game.

I was glad to see Messi win, but holy cow, was that an unbelievable match. Like France was being dominated, and then all of a sudden they almost stole it. Anyway, I have to say there's another one I would take. It would be the Miracle on Ice, Lake Placid, 1980. Oh, yeah. But to be honest jeff i've had an opportunity to be see so much hockey i have to say that there would be other sporting events

from other sports that since i stopped doing everything those are some of the kinds of things that i would actually want to see a bit more like to be in person at that world cup final today that would have been incredible le foreman for me rebel in the at that world cup final today that would have been incredible ali foreman for me rebel in the jungle that's a great call that would have been the one that would have been the one for me can't argue with that one okay so thanks for the tweet on that one okay so to this one let's get to a voicemail from a friend of ours in dallas hey this is tyler in dallas um i was just curious, whenever a team ices the puck and they're forced to go back in their defensive zone,

can they switch the goalie out? I know they have to keep the same people on the ice when they ice it, but can they swap the goalie? Thank you. No, you can't. Unless there's an injury, Elliot, and that would have to be determined by the official, obviously. Now, you are allowed, if you've pulled the goaltender

and your team has iced the puck, you are allowed to put the goalie back in, but you're not allowed to switch goaltenders on an icing. I like rules questions. Whenever those come up, I just sort of zone out and fall asleep and let you handle them okay so here's one uh i'm gonna let you handle this rules question justin and strathcona is it possible for multiple delayed calls to build up during the delay for example could a player be

hooked draw a delayed call be slashed by a different player another ref raises their hand be hooked again by a third player referee's hand goes up and so on and so on if so is there a maximum has this ever happened thanks for the pod all three of you don't make me choose go elliot yes uh it can happen you have you can see double penalties i've never seen three called nor of i nor of i've seen two but absolutely yes you see occasionally you do see double penalties that does happen yes but as you know a lot of these cases if they're calling one penalty you've really got to do something egregious to get to it's almost like okay we you know what we've already got one penalty now fill your boots because they really we really have to do something to get another

penalty here arlene in vancouver je, you've often said you'd like general managers to write books to hear about all the deals that didn't happen. That's true. And other things, I'm sure. So you get one pick. Which GM would you want

to write a book? Elliot, what about you? I never miss a podcast. Thanks, guys. If you could pick a GM to write a book and they had like truth serum or they had like

the Wonder Woman lasso of truth around them and they had like truth serum or they had like the Wonder Woman lasso of truth around them and they had to come clean about their entire career. I don't know. That's pretty good. It's pretty hip reference. Wonder Woman got canceled this week. So I understand why you have that on your mind. Jeff, why are you always thinking about Linda Carter? Nevermind. Let's focus on hockey. Mine is Bill Torrey. I've talked to Bill Torrey. Glenn say there would be up there as well. But first of all, there's a couple of reasons why I say Bill Torrey. One, because I'm fascinated with the building of not just a championship team, but a dynasty team from zero. Also, the New York Islanders had this, and I can't really find many people that will talk about it. Do you know the story of their first

training camp? Hit me. The New York Islanders had their very first training camp in Peterborough, Ontario, home of the Peets. And they had like 75 guys at their very first training camp. And apparently it was

debauchery central. Players had to be sent home after a couple of days. Like apparently this was like, keep in mind, this is the early 70s folks. And we all know what the early 70s or the 70s in general were like. Apparently it was like one of the wildest training camps of all time. But I've never been able to find anybody who will tell me about anything that went on other than, oh yeah, that was a wild training camp. So I'd like to know the story about that. But anyway, who would be your manager?

I'm sure if Jim Boughton was covering it, you'd get the all four of the NHL. Yes, that would be the hockey's version of Jim Boughton. I want something a little more contemporary. So when he retires, then I'm going with Jim Rutherford. He's seen a lot, man. Three Stanley Cup champions. Now in Vancouver.

Elliot, let's wrap up with this one. And thanks for the emails and phone calls, as always. And songs and parody songs. That was phenomenal. Oh, Patrick, just roasting me right off the bat. Jeez, man. Let me come up for a breath. From CO in Victoria, BC.

This might be a bit dumb of a question. Again, there are no dumb questions, especially here. Has the post-goal celebratory bench skate-by fist bump stare down the opposing team's bench always been a classic ritual of NHL goal scorers,

of any hockey goal scorer, or did it start in a certain season with a certain player slash famous moment did it start elsewhere and get brought to the nhl this is like the flyby or the train when someone scores whoever the goal scorer is always goes first i think the idea is like okay this guy just scored the goal let's rub the luck uh you know along the bench hey i just scored the goal let's rub some of my good luck along the bench here. I've thought about this a lot. I don't know where it started.

Okay, so Daryl Ray wants us to talk about the Western Hockey League more. There were teams in the Western Hockey League that were doing that in the early to mid 80s. Now, I also believe that when the NHL outlawed, and it was because of the Montreal Canadiens, in the playoffs, the Montreal Canadiens used to empty the bench on

goals and they did it against, I want to say it was the Boston Bruins and the Bruins were hot at it and so every time, I think Don Cherry would have been the coach, every time Jerry Cheevers made a save, Grapes would empty the bench and everyone would go and hug Jerry Cheevers and Cherry said, well, look, if they're

emptying the bench on goals, I'm going to empty the bench on saves and the NHL said, okay okay everybody stop this stupidity right now and they stopped letting the Habs empty the bench I have in the back of my mind that the Montreal Canadiens after that so that would have been late 70s started to do the train but I don't know for sure but I do know in the mid 80s there were teams in the western league that were doing that it became a real thing at the world juniors which i think is why it's popular and sort of translated into the nhl but again i don't have anything concrete this is just how i feel you have a thought on this one frege that's the best i can come up with this is elliot friedman eyes glaze over territory you

started talking about three minutes ago and i I don't know what's happened since. Peppermint Patty. That's all I am to you. I'm just a teacher. I'm just a teacher. Actually, to be honest, I think there was a features producer at TSN that tried to do this feature.

Like how did this all start? Oh really? And what happened with it? I don't know. I honestly don't know. And, uh, and, and. And I'll say this. I do know that there was one team. Actually, I wonder if it was Vancouver.

I'll have to ask BX about this, where some of the veterans told the young players they didn't like it. Didn't like the train. Really? Yeah. Controversy. Okay, but this leads me to,

and when I saw this one pop up when amos when amos says wait a sec my eyes are starting to glaze over okay all right go ahead jeff okay so hang on you'll like this because it's about um someone who's very newsworthy and that is alex ovechkin yeah so i had heard this a while ago and i just got to confirm today so alex ovechkin in that game against tampa where he did the hot stick celebration. And he's got a little celebration here. I'm sure Don Cherry will have a reaction to that. But nevertheless, it's his 50th of the year. He reaches 50 and makes it 1-0.

Take a look right here as he comes across and just takes a wicked wrist shot that really was blown by McKenna before he could even move. What I got confirmed was, and I asked about this at the time and I was told, we're not confirming that. We're not saying anything. But someone confirmed it to me today. So that came from Jose Teodor, netminder of the Washington Capitals. Now, where he got it from with the Montreal Canadiens

was someone who played very, very briefly for the Habs, but was a very high first-round draft pick of the Montreal Canadiens, and that's Terry Ryan. So Terry Ryan used to do that celebration in the Western Hockey League. Terry Ryan, when he scored a big goal, he'd do the hot stick, or Terry Ryan would like, he'd score a big goal and then go in front of the other team's bench and start

doing pushups. And he could back it up too, right? Like he'd score 50 and have 300 pims. Like who's going to say anything to Terry Ryan? Like, okay, yeah, that's good. Do your pushups. Okay. Yeah. Gotcha. And I guess that Jose Teodor had heard about it from Terry Ryan in Montreal. Theodore had heard about it from Terry Ryan in Montreal. And then when he was in Washington, told Ovechkin about it and said, you have to do this. And Theodore told the other players as well,

like if you're on the ice, like, you know, go over and like, you know, warm up your hands on a stick, like it's on fire. And he said, yeah, all the other guys were like, yeah, sure, we'll go. And then nobody did, obviously. But but that is the as we're doing origin stories of uh of rituals in the nhl that is the origin story of alex ovechkin and the hot stick courtesy of your friends here at 32 thoughts that's really good jeff actually but how about the fact that now everybody is using we don't want ovechkin scoring on our watch as motivation

i know right derrick lalonde is picking this up like we don't want this happening on our watch pete deborah right and jake ottinger got like yes he started a trend you're not doing on our watch hippie no way not on this watch not here anything else before we uh you know there was a trivia question and i thought about it. Jeff in Stouffville, the coach who coached NHL games against both Gordie Howe and Alex Ovechkin. Is that Pat Quinn? Yeah, it has to be Pat Quinn.

Is it Pat Quinn? Yep. The only other guy I could think of was Al Arbor, and I wondered if it was that technicality because Al Arbor, remember, the Islanders invited him back in 07, 08 to coach one game. What a great night.

But that game was against Pittsburgh. It wasn't against Washington. It's got to be Pat Quinn. It's the only other guy I could think of. Amel is saying yes. That was the one that I thought of on this one. So great minds think alike, but fools also

seldom differ. That's right. Okay. So another fun podcast has now come and gone. Thanks for sticking with us a little bit longer than we've been doing lately. But thanks for hanging in there

and starting your week off with us. Thank you. Always appreciate it. Taking us out is a high energy and highly melodic quintet from the Motor City that has a very vibrant and infectious sound.

Now, earlier this year, Max Saturn dropped their debut EP and the album covers a wide range of musical styles. You can catch them on a pretty extensive tour starting in January, including at the legendary Horseshoe Tavern, ladies and gentlemen, and February the 8th. From

Detroit, here's Max Saturn with Mr. Cadillac on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Enjoy. Excuse me, Mr. Cadillac I heard you beat the devil the podcast. Enjoy. Stretches to break around If you've had enough Give it up, no need to waste my time I'm called on the welcome end A false solution to a victimless crime A crime

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