32 Thoughts: The Podcast - What Now For Pierre-Luc Dubois?

Episode Date: January 22, 2021

Correction: The voice at the start of the podcast is Jody Shelley not John Forslund. Our apologies. Pierre-Luc Dubois played five shifts for a total of 3:55 during Columbus’s overtime loss to Tampa Bay Thursday night. Following the game, Jeff and Elliotte take a stab at figuring out the complex situation (00:00) between the Blue […]

Their identity and anyone that's not going to play with it will sit on the bench. So right now it looks like Pierre-Luc Dubois has not found that compete, that battle level. He has been on the bench since the last, well, the four minutes of the first and all this period. So he is sitting right in the middle of the bench. Not to be a distraction, but he has been replaced on the power play. not to be a distraction, but he has been replaced on the power play. Okay, that's the voice of John Forslund in the broadcast on Thursday night

of the Tampa Bay Lightning Columbus Blue Jackets game. Braden Point with the OT winner. Real nice pass from Victor Hedman, but guess what, Elliot Friedman? That is not the story. Let's frame this podcast quickly. We recorded the podcast very early on Thursday morning. We're ready to release it.

And then Tampa and Columbus happened. Specifically, Pierre-Luc Dubois and John Tortorella happened. Five shifts, three minutes and 55 seconds. He did not leave the bench in the second or the third. Comme on Dian Francais, as we say in French, qu'est-ce qui se passe? What's going on? So I was watching a bunch of the early games. I was paying a lot of attention to Winnipeg, Ottawa, obviously. And I was looking at Boston and Philly too, which turned into an entertaining

game. And then I started seeing on Twitter what was going on in Columbus, Tampa. And I went over there and I saw I didn't play the rest of the first period. And so what I did was I went back and I looked at, you know, some of his shifts. He only had, I think, five of them. So it wasn't like it took a long time. And the last one, Jeff, it's pretty noticeable. And if anybody hasn't seen it yet, they come down the ice. Cam Atkinson is at the blue line.

He's on the right side, and he flips the puck into the left corner where Dubois is going in there. And Dubois is there against Tyler Johnson, and he doesn't give it a fight. Johnson just muscles him off the puck. And whoever the Tampa defenseman was, I can can't remember gets it up the ice and that was the end of a 43 second shift it was kind of a weird shift by dubois because when he was in his own end when he was kind of swinging down low for a breakout he ran in like not ran into but he he touched legs with his own defenseman like the whole thing was kind of weird he just wasn't legs with his own defenseman like the whole thing was kind of weird he just wasn't like when i think about pierre luke dubois i think of an animal on the ice a guy who runs over people is a threat to

just destroy bodies every time he's just not into it like he's just not there and i know tortorella you know lots of people rip tortorella he's he's a target and when I got the video of it I sent it around to a few people just around the league and I said what do you guys think and I specifically sent it to a couple people who I know don't like Tortorella and you know they just said you can't fault him for this one in particular and it's a tough one. And if you saw Nick Foligno's quotes from the end of the game, too, he said, you know, so it's just disappointing not to get the result because a lot of guys gave it their all tonight and we still got to get some, some others on board and we have to find a way to win hockey games here. It's five games in now. So there you go. I mean, my job is to worry about

our game and how we're playing and i can't worry about who's not and who is that's that's the coach's decision so my job is to play for who the guys are that are out there and the other one was we've had our talks with luke we've we you know he's one of us until told otherwise we said that out loud and that's that's the way it is so like it wasn't great ringing stuff. And look like everybody's waiting for the shoe to drop here. And we've talked about this about it's a huge challenge for Kekulainen. It just became a bigger challenge tonight.

It's very clear that Dubois, I mean, you just had to watch that shift by Dubois. He doesn't want to be there. Tortorella, you know, if you give him that kind of an effort, he's not going to play you. And that's kind of where we are right now, Jeff. It's going to get really ugly. It's going to get worse before it gets better. Well, that becomes a question now. These two teams play again on Saturday. Will Pierre-Luc Dubois be in the game? My question initially is, how much heat does this now kick upstairs to Jarmo Kekulainen? Is this John Tortorella saying, get him out of here? Or is it Pierre-Luc Dubois saying, get me out of here now?

I definitely think it's still Dubois saying he wants to be out like look we know he doesn't want to be there right and um but he was hang on hang on he was the same guy that said he was gonna you know perform the best of my abilities etc i'm paraphrasing at the beginning of the season when the report came out that he had requested a trade you know professionalism do my job all these all the things you would expect a hockey player to say, which flies right in the face of what we saw on Thursday night, though. My personal belief is that he's under the impression that he felt that Columbus would move to move him,

that it wouldn't last. And now it's pretty clear Kekulainen's in no hurry, and that really bothers Dubois. Jeff, I've used this line before there's plenty of time in our business where we hate our bosses right i don't know what you're talking about and we don't feel like going to work for them like i've had times in my career where i've said i cannot believe i'm working for this person and I don't feel like working for them tonight. But at the end of the day, I think two things. Number one, it's my reputation that's on the line. And number

two, you know, I've got teammates who depend on me and I think everybody can have a bad night. We're human. Not everybody's going to be great for 82 games. I'm curious to see where this goes. Do the Blue Jackets just say, screw it, we're trading him? Or do they say, you know what? We can't accept that. And it makes us harder to trade you. And if you want to get traded, you're going to have to play better than that. Or does he say, that's it?

I'm not doing this anymore. Or does someone close to Dubois say, you know, Pierre-Luc, you can't do that. Like all I know is I only judge other people by the way I judge myself, Jeff. That's it. I never believe in judging anyone else aside from how I judge myself. And if I was to have a show like that, and I've had bad shows before, where I didn't feel I gave it my all, I wouldn't let it happen again. I just wouldn't.

I think that that's your reputation, and you can drag your teammates down on TV, never mind in a game, if you perform like that, I just wouldn't let it happen to myself again. So a lot of this and you know, the John Tortorella quotes. Like, do you think I'm wrong on that? In what sense? Do you have responsibility to your teammates and responsibility to yourself, regardless of how you feel about management or that team?

Yes. Yeah. Ultimately, this is how you want to present and represent yourself. There are always mitigating factors, however. Now, I'm with you, and I don't know that we have a clear picture of what has happened in Columbus. To the point where, after we talked about it on the podcast, you've mentioned in a couple of different places i got a note from someone who works in the industry who said i heard your podcast and i did just well i'm not going to give you any details i'm not going to say anything but you're right

there's more to this story well first of all i just want to say i think it's lame that he or she is not going to give us any more detail. Trust me, I pushed too and I poked and I prodded but got nothing. And this is a person who even said themselves, I know more of the story. You guys are on the right track. You're pointed in the right direction. But we may never know the complete story. But there's more to this than just someone that just wants out. And I don't know that we'll ever know it. I don't know what's going

on. I don't know what the dynamic is with Dubois and the relationship with the coach is certainly strained or Dubois and management or Dubois and teammates or Dubois and the city of Columbus. I don't know. So on the one hand, I want to come down and say, I mean, you're dressing for the game. There's a responsibility that you have to yourself and your teammates. But I don't know all the relationships here. I don't know the dynamics. I don't know what's gone on.

I just don't know the dynamics. I don't know what's gone on. I just don't know. So normally, Freed, I'd agree with you 100%, but I don't know that we have the full snapshot of what's gone on. And someone said to me tonight, do you think that other teams won't want to trade for him? And I don't believe that. I think other teams will look at it and say,

oh, once he gets somewhere else, he's going to play hard for us. Yeah, we've seen that from Dubois before. It's funny because I was thinking the same thing. Okay, is the asset now become depressed? And then I thought to myself, well, give your head a shake, Merrick. Everyone's seen Pierre-Luc Dubois play. This is clearly a stressed situation right now.

So I don't think that any team's going to look at this and say, you know what, I was going to throw at this and say, you know what? I was going to throw in a second rounder, but that's now a fourth. I don't think anyone's going to be doing that on Pierre-Luc Dubois, even though it didn't look good. Wow. That was really something to watch. Hang on.

Let me ask you this. How much of this was from John Tortorella's point of view? Because let's not forget, it was like five minutes ago when Tortorella said, you view, because let's not forget, it was like five minutes ago when Tortorella said, you'll know when I bench someone. This does seem spontaneous. I mean, Pierre-Luc Dubois went out there for five shifts and after the shift that you highlighted, that was it. And he's grabbing some pine. How much of this was spontaneous versus planned? I'm not saying that John Tortorella went into this game and said,

I'm going to stick it to Pierre-Luc Dubois. This game's on national television. We're facing off against the Stanley Cup champions. No, I don't believe that. Hang on. I'm not saying that he did that, but the idea of sitting him down for a couple of periods when he sees some soft play, like from John Tortorella's point of view, A, did he deserve to be sat?

Absolutely. For that length, that's up to the coach and his relationship with that player and his relationship with that team. Spontaneous but planned in a sense that when he was going to sit Pierre-Luc Dubois down, he was really going to sit Pierre-Luc Dubois down and everybody was going to know it. No, I look, I don't think Tortorella is that complicated a guy. I don't think he's that kind of a thinker. I think he's just, are you playing hard for me? Yes, you play. Are you not playing hard for me? You don you play. Are you not playing hard for me?

You don't play. I think it's that simple. I don't think he's a really complicated person. Peter Luke Dubois not talking on Thursday after the game. Any surprise there? I don't know him that well to know. I know Columbus is a really good PR staff. Like those people are good people there.

I guess I can't say I'm really surprised. I've watched a couple of his Zoom media conferences and it's pretty obvious he doesn't enjoy talking about the whole situation. So I guess I'm probably not surprised. It'll be interesting to see if he talks at all on Friday. After practice. After practice.

Before the game. Because they did say they were going to try to talk to see if he would talk on Friday. Again, Columbus is a source of eyebrow raising, and we'll see what happens Saturday as these two teams face off against each other again. We now return you to your regularly scheduled podcast. Elliot, for the first time in I don't even know when

and can't even remember when, we're going to do some hashtag Ask31s. It's been too long and we did have some questions about when we're going to get the next Word Association podcast. And to quell all your fears, we are going to do that that is Association podcast. And to quell all your fears, we are going to do that. That is on the horizon because Elliot promised it. So we're going to get to some hashtag Ask31s.

But first, the story of the week so far around the NHL, outside of all the action we've seen on the ice and some relative intrigue off of it, has been the COVID situation with two teams specifically, the Carolina Hurricanes and most recently the Washington Capitals who as an organization were fined $100,000 for breaking COVID protocols your thoughts when you first heard the Washington news no question the NHL was looking to set an example on someone if they had to you know i heard a lot of uh comments and i had a lot of people tweeted me as this was breaking on wednesday night about you know hey they're next

to each other on the bench they're celebrating goals together someone actually sent me a photo of ovechkin kuznetsov in a goal hug you know i, I understand all that. And certainly from a purely logical point of view, you're looking at that and you're saying, wait a sec, how does that make any sense? Here's what happened. Peter Laviolette at their post-practice media availability on Thursday confirmed the rumor that the four players, Ovechkin, Kuznetsov, Orlov, and Samsonov, had been together in the same hotel room.

Those are four big pieces for us and important pieces. They'll be missed. And, you know, it's a difficult thing. We totally understand why the rules are in place. We want to be compliant. And we made a mistake. And, you know, we need to do a better job be compliant and we made a mistake and you know we need to do a better job and even i made a mistake you know i dropped my mask it was out there you know at the end of

the game at the end of the post game and this in the celebration like i've got to do a better job too it's a learning lesson for everybody because it is real stuff that we're talking about we don't take it lightly and when you make a mistake, you know, it can be costly. So we met with the team today. You know, I talked to Alex a couple of times yesterday. We texted, I texted a group of players that are now in quarantine and held a meeting with the players today to continue to work to try and get better. But we do wear our masks.

We do put them on. We try to remember it all the time. And we're trying to do a good job and we can be better. And that's the, that's the message. Now, if you read the league's travel protocols, which are public, you can find them. Each member of a team has to have their own room and you can't get together in it. Correct. The only other people that can come into your room are housekeeping staff or people that

need to fix anything in your room. And they can only come in when you're not there. So you can't have a group meeting. And what happened was, I guess they were all in the same room, whether they were playing video games or watching UFC or whatever they were doing. And one of the players, reportedly Samsonov, tested positive. So they asked him who he'd been around, especially in non-game or practice or travel situations. And, you know, that's what came up you know i think the one thing that's kind of frustrating to everybody here is there's also something else in the

protocols that the teams if they can do it and the capitals from what i understand did do it is there's like a general dedicated common area slash lounge at these hotels that are bigger have more room you can socially distance and whatever they were doing they could have done it there and if that had happened there wouldn't have been a penalty now i know some of the capitals and their fans and if you saw the instagram post from Ovechkin's wife, who was extremely upset, and the thing that stood out to me was that she published her post in both Russian and English, criticizing the penalty.

I mean, she wanted to make sure that nobody mistook or misinterpreted what she was saying, is that they're sitting on the bench, they're traveling together, they celebrate goals together. What's the big difference with the hotel room? And I understand that point of view. I think, though, what we've got here is that the league is trying to get San Jose back to San Jose.

They're on the road now. They're hoping maybe February 1st, but there's no guarantee. And we've talked about it on the podcast, how the Sharks players are understandably not pleased about this. It's a very difficult situation for them. And the league is worried if it gets out that they're not enforcing their protocols, that governments won't let them, for example, put the Sharks back in California. In Canada, if you're not familiar, there's lockdowns going on and these teams are allowed

to play in certain situations where, you know, there would be a lockdown or they'd have to get a quarantine for crossing provincial lines. And they've gotten waivers and approvals from the governments to avoid all that. Correct. And they're concerned that if it's found out that they didn't crack down on their rules, governments would say, you're not taking this seriously enough. So they felt they had no choice but they had to make an example out of it obviously the capitals players aren't happy i'm sure the capitals aren't happy with the whole situation because now they're shorthanded and you know one fan a capitals fan his twitter handle is uh chip tamblyn you know he asked me on twitter well how

come you know carolina's got you know five guys and their games are canceled and you know dallas at 17 guys and their games are canceled how come the capitals have to play and you know the league is doesn't come right out and say but this is what you can kind of figure. As far as we know right now, there's only one positive test, Samsonov. It was revealed in the Instagram post that Ovechkin and Orlov both have the antibodies. I think it comes down to your number of positive tests.

That's what it comes down to. The league won't say that, but if you're paying attention, you can figure it out. If you have a lot of positive tests, you're getting shut down. If you have a minimum amount of positive tests and a bunch of contact tracing situations, which is what it appears to be right now with the Capitals,

no cancellations although anything can change as we always say jeff what's true now might not be true in 10 minutes in the course of your conversations your texts and your phone calls on wednesday night after this news broke about the washington capitals on a scale of one to approaching the sun how hot was washington about this one i just thought it was really interesting that their statement used the word disappointed in it right any parent knows how powerful that word is so i think they were annoyed i'm sure there's some frustration because i mean everybody's kind kind of short fused right now, right? It's very difficult circumstances to live, whether you're a pro athlete or not,

it's very stressful. But the fact that the word disappointed was in the statement, it says to me that, you know, that's everything you needed to know there. It's a short season. You can't afford to lose players. And I'm sure if you're one of those four guys, it's not easy to have your name put out there like that. Nobody wants that publicly. Nobody wants to be shamed in any particular kind of way or tied into it.

So Ovechkin comes out with the apology. The team comes out with the note about being disappointed, as you mentioned. Considering Alex Ovechkin is out with the apology. The team comes out with the note about being disappointed, as you mentioned. Considering Alex Ovechkin is, and always has been since he joined the NHL, the face of the franchise, the captain of the team, there's always been that belief that, you know, what Ovi wants, Ovi gets. You know, Ted Leonsis, even at various times, has said, listen, even if, you know, NHLers aren't going to the Olympics,

you remember this one, Elliot, I will let Ovechkin go. Like that's the sort of stroke that he has in that organization. He's also in a contract year with the team. Does this in any way, shape or form, in your opinion, change his standing with the Washington Capitals? We're talking about four guys in a hotel room. One of them is the captain.

No, I can't see that. I mean, I'm sure that they'll say to him, you know, you can't do that again. And anyone look at that statement, it's not kind of the way you could see Ovechkin saying it, you know, I'm sure he's not thrilled this morning. Nobody would like that, but they've had an incredibly mutually beneficial 15-year partnership do you think this is going to change that no way not a chance he's the franchise and they know it and he's done far far far far far more good than anything negative for that organization. Do you think this is a...

We can start an argument on this podcast. I think that there is an argument that Ovechkin is one of the most influential players and people in the history of the National Hockey League. Nevermind best player, because I think he's on that list too, like top five, but influential? Is there a player in the NHL's history that has meant more to a franchise

than Ovechkin has to Washington? How long do you want to give me to think about this? Hold on. Like Gretzky to me is in another class because there's a whole bunch of teams that are in the league hold on like gretzky to me isn't another class because there's a whole bunch of teams that are in the league because of wayne gretzky well mario comes to mind right away not just because of what he did on the ice but how he saved the franchise twice i would put mario there yeah is ov third

i would put steve eiserman in that conversation let's not forget when the illich family bought the detroit red wings there were well they were a they were a bad team b you know the illich family had to offer because they couldn't necessarily pay a coach's going rate had to offer you know little caesar franchises to supplement coaching salaries. Had to give away cars just to get people in the building, just to get them to go to games. I would put Ovechkin ahead of Iserman though, but it's fair. Iserman comes in and that was the player they ended up building the entire thing around.

It's a great on-the-spot question, and those are the two that come to my mind right away, but I would have to think historically more about it. But yes, Ovechkin with, with the Washington Capitals off the cuff. Yeah. Right away. He's going to be in your top three, top five, most important players to a franchise.

You see the thing I would say about Isermanerman is at least the red wings had a history i agree with your general thesis that they were down no question about it and i think the other thing to look at and we're really going off on a tangent here but that's okay eiserman and ovechkin both benefited from very strong ownership the iliches were obviously very committed to the Red Wings. Yeah. And Ted Leonsis is obviously very committed to the Capitals. I'll tell you something else too. When this is all over with the Washington football team

and the ownership struggle that's there, I wouldn't be surprised if Ted Leonsis owns the NFL team too. Why do you say that? Well, just because if you look at it, there's a big legal mess with Daniel Snyder right now. He's had a horrible time running that football club. Look, Leonsis has a great name there. He's done incredible work with the Capitals and the Wizards.

The Wizards have not done what he hoped for them to do, but they're definitely stable ownership, I could see it. If you told me that he would be the next owner of the football team when this is all cleared up, I could totally see it. Anyway, we're going way off on tangents, but I can't see how this in any way affects

Ovechkin's relationship with the team, although I'm sure he's not thrilled today. Was this from around the league as well? I mean, everybody saw this news and everybody sort of stood back and said, whoa, that is a $100,000 team finally. Is this a snap to attention moment? I know we're only a week into the season,

but is this a snap to attention moment for all 30 other teams around the nhl well i think that that's kind of what the league wants right like look like dallas hasn't played yet as we record this podcast carolina is on a covid timeout florida has had four games canceled. And already, if you look at the footprint, the schedule footprint for the season, it's compressing. You're already looking at this and you're saying, how are they going to make up all these games that are getting canceled? When you take a look at what the overall timeline is, you know what? I used to be a camp counselor, okay? And being a camp counselor in the late 80s and early 90s is much different than being one today,

I'll say that. And one of the things they always told us was, if you have someone who you think is going to be a problem, or you have a situation which you think is going to be a problem or you have a situation, which you think is going to be a problem, and this is a situation, not a someone you have to lay down the law early and show everybody you mean business. It's like parenting, right?

Jeff, like when TJ and Brody act up, do you, do you come down early and say, I'm going to show you that this is going to be a problem or do you let it fester and then all of a sudden try to rein it back in option a if you're not a parent or a camp counselor option a is always better and that way everybody sees this today and like if you take a look at teams like the Raiders or the Saints in the NFL that had multiple violations, they started losing draft picks and the fines got bigger.

It's a warning. It's a shot across the bow. Do we know what contingency, if anything, there is if a team, and again, this is worst, worst case scenario. Do we know what the contingency is if a team can't finish the season? Well, we do know that there's something that says that they've come out and they said if people don't play the same amount of games, it comes down to points percentage for the playoffs. What have we learned about the NHL? It's that if they don't have to tell us something,

they won't tell us something. Because then it becomes we're all watching for this, right? And the one thing about Bettman is, I do believe this in this particular case, when it comes to games getting canceled, it's up to the doctors. He's being told what to do. Ultimately, he has the final decision,

but I think he's just listening to the medicine on it. I don't think they're guessing about where if a team has one guy on a COVID list and everybody else is playing, I don't think he's just making that up as he's going along. I think that he's checking it with his medical officials and they're saying, do this, do that.

A couple of things I wonder about here with the postponement of games and they're saying, do this, do that. See, a couple of things I wonder about here with the postponement of games and they're going to tack them on when they can fit them into the schedule. We saw a game on Wednesday night between the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Edmonton Oilers where two teams looked exhausted and were a week into the season.

They looked flat out tired. These guys have played a lot of hockey games. I know in the CBA, you're not allowed to play three games in three nights. With the volume of games that a week in, we're already looking at tacking on somewhere at the end, squeezing a game here and there. Are we in a situation where this may start to look like an AHL schedule where, you know,

you go to the PA and you say, look, the only way we can do this is if we do three games in three nights. Like, do you think we'll get to that point in the NHL? I don't know, but I think we're kidding ourselves. If we don't think those conversations haven't already happened between the

league and the players association. Like there's no way Jeff, they haven't discussed this already. No way. For sure. And you can understand the pushback from the Players Association. Like there's no way, Jeff, they haven't discussed this already. No way. For sure. And you can understand the pushback from the Players Association. Yes and no.

I could see pushback, but you know what I could see it coming down to is do these games matter? You know, for example, in baseball, there have been times in history where rain outs have had to be made up at the end of the year. And if they matter in the pennant races, they get made up. And if they don't, they don't.

Like, could that be a situation? Like, let's just say, okay, the seventh and the eighth place teams in one division, you know, miss a game. Are you going to rush to make that up if both teams have no chances to make the playoffs? Okay. Even though during the lockouts, I play one on television, I'm not an actuary, but I wonder about completely scrubbing games and how the players association feels about that due to pension issues. Oh, that's a fair question. The thresholds for certain levels of compensation for your pension. Like once upon a time, what was the magic number?

Was it 300 or 400? 400. 400 for full pension. That used to be the one like, oh man, you got to get to 400, then you get your full pension. And guys just coming short. Oh, like last podcast, we talked about getting close to a thousand games for that number.

The number used to be like for the players, like, okay, man, get to your 400. Then you get your full pension. So if you're the players association, you hear the NHL talking about completely scrubbing games. Do you say to yourself,

hold on a second here. This is keeping players from get, again, I'm not an actuary, so I don't know, but does that keep people artificially away from their full pensions? I don't know the answer to that. Do you?

It's a great question. It's a good point. You know, one of the things that's kind of happened, and again, I'm talking out of my butt here. I don't know. I'm just wondering out loud. And I'm sure at some point someone will tell me if I'm right or wrong. But if you take a look at everything this year, everything's prorated, right?

Like bonuses, things like that. I wonder if that would be part of it too. Someone will tell me if I'm right or wrong. But if you take a look at everything this year, everything's prorated, right? Like bonuses, things like that. I wonder if that would be part of it too. That's a more esoteric question. But the big picture question I'm wondering is, do these games matter? I think we have a new header for the podcast. Welcome to 31 Thoughts. I'm talking out of my butt.

Let's get to the podcast. This is 31 Thoughts, the podcast brought to you by the GMC Sierra AT4. Once again for Detroit offensively. They win the draw and they score! Bobby Ryan! Wow. Talk about Johnny on the spot. My goodness.

Boy, oh boy, does Bobby Ryan know how to find the back of the net? Boy, oh boy, does Bobby Ryan know how to find the back of the net? people. I just want to put this out there and not ask a specific question around it, but just say the name to you, Bobby Ryan. Oh, how can you not be happy for him? I was watching their game against Columbus the other night when he scored and the font came up and it said the first Red Wing ever to score four goals in his first three games with the team yeah i would have figured of all their great players in their history that that wouldn't have been the case i i actually stopped the screen i don't like to interrupt ken daniels when he's really going like you know ken with his melodic voice and things like that but i actually had to stop the screen to check that and say wow like i

can't believe that that would be the case. You figure, you know, all the great players they've had in their history, someone would have done it, but look, there's people you root for. And Bobby Ryan is definitely one of those people. And I do believe that a change of scenery can benefit everybody, player organization, you name it, family. And sometimes somebody needs a new start. And that Detroit team, the number one thing I notice is, and this is what I think was Steve Eiserman's goal, it's not about challenging for first place in the Central Division,

but it's about being more competitive. It's about telling your players, especially your young players, it's not acceptable to lose. You have to compete as hard as you can. And if you've watched their early games so far this year, they're really competing. They, they gave Carolina a lot of trouble.

They've given Columbus a lot of trouble. They've shown up to play this year. And that is the goal that the Red Wings had. And, and Ryan's obviously a big part of that. You know, you look at a team like that and you always think, okay, just let this team stay in games as long as you can. And it helps when you have a net mind or it helps when you have a blue line that can get the puck to the forwards. And I know they've been, those have been a couple of

challenging spots for the Detroit Red Wings, but I'm with you. Like when you look at all those, you know, look at the young players that they're bringing in. I think they've done a really good job of having veteran players around these kids. You're not just handing out gigs. You're not just handing out spots. Yeah.

I think the best thing you can hope for on a day-to-day basis is these kids get to play a full three periods. And by that, I mean, you know, the game isn't over halfway through the game. Like you're not getting blown out six to two going into the third period where, okay, we'll just have to go through the motions and play, you know, an empty calorie 20 minutes here.

And so far, like to your point, we're seeing that with Detroit. I always look to that when you're looking at teams, like at what point, and I'll use the Oilers as an example with, you know, when they had Hall and Ryan Nugent Hopkins and Jordan Eberle, like that crew. You say to yourself, what are we really learning about these players? Or what are these young players really learning when, A, you don't have a defense that can get the forwards the puck.

learning when, A, you don't have a defense that can get the forwards the puck, B, you're out of games by the time the midpoint of the second period rolls around, and C, you're out of the playoffs by Christmas. If you want to talk about not giving your kids a chance to succeed or grow, that was it. That era of Euler really should be a case study for other teams around the nhl of how not to do it and how you can hurt development of players by not putting them in a situation where you get to feel what a real three periods feels like in the nhl i'm not even going to tell you how that you're talking out of your butt like that's a great statement that's the new theme for the podcast um by the way i want to talk about pucks. Okay. I want to talk about the puck tracking pucks and the recall of puck tracking pucks.

What happened here? What happened here is that I'm not sure if they weren't freezing properly or the sheen was a problem. I've heard both theories. But on Saturday night, and Ron's a guy who always really talks about the ice. Like he's very in tune towards that. This is Ron McLean, Ron McLean. Yes.

So he was watching one of the games and he was saying, you know, shouldn't the ice be good? Cause there's nobody, you know, playing in these buildings aside from the hockey teams in Canada. Yeah. And, you know, I was looking at it and I said, that's pretty weird. And now we notice it isn't the ice. It was the pucks. And, um, you know, I was looking at it and I said, that's pretty weird. And now we notice it isn't the ice.

It was the pucks. And, you know, it's really unfortunate. This has been a long process and probably a more difficult process for the NHL than they wanted or hoped. But, you know, right now, basically they weren't working effectively. And like I said, I heard one version that they weren't freezing properly. I heard another version that the sheen wasn't good enough. But it's kind of back to the drawing board at this point in time. You know, that's an interesting point about the rinks too.

I mean, I think we've talked about this on the podcast before. One of the great arguments is always between the general manager and the team president and the coach and the players over the thermometer. If your job depends on what happens on the ice, you want that ice to be the best it can possibly be. And that generally means a pretty cold rink. But if you're in the business of selling tickets and you want your fan base to be comfortable, I don't know that you want them all coming in in parkas. The thermometer discussion is a fascinating one. You know who was really big into that? Where does that get set?

Who's that? Darcy Regeer. Really? How so? I used to like having conversations with Darcy Regeer about ideas. Because years ago, GMs told me that Darcy Regeer about ideas because years ago GMs told me that Darcy Regeer would always come up with just crazy wild ideas for making the game better and things like that and just things that they should try like he was one of the people who came up with

the goal post idea right either the the smaller came up with the goalpost idea, right? Either the smaller goalpost or the goalpost that curved inward so there was a better chance it would go off the post in the end, right? Was that, we can pause on one. Was that Darcy Regeer, we're talking about the Buffalo Sabres here for the uninitiated and acquainted here. Yeah. Was that Darcy Regeer or was that Larry Quinn or a combination of the two? Because I remember that, like the rounded edges to give you more room to shoot up high.

Well, it was Buffalo and Regeer was in the middle of a lot of that stuff. Okay. Like I'll tell you another one. When they first put the netting up, the safety netting, he proposed it be like arena football. That if the puck hit the netting, it was live. Yeah, I like that. Well, here's the reason it didn't happen okay because i thought it was interesting too and then what they were worried about was and maybe that wouldn't be as much of a factor now as it was back then was guys would be flipping the puck off the netting, and while a defenseman was waiting for it to come down,

guys would be timing their hits to kill them. So hang on. So can you have then like a fair catch for a defenseman underneath the – Do you really want that? No, Elliot, you take everything that I say seriously. Trust me. Because you come up with some terrible ideas. No, I come up with great ideas.

I'm just misunderstood in my own generation. Genius not recognized. Posthumously, I'm going to be brilliant right now i'm just the village idiots well you know just as a side note too with those nets so darcy regeer larry quinn and buffalo by the way again elliot and i know you hate me talking about that they were the ones that experimented with a different color ice in that rochester versus saint john's game during the lockout of 2005. But the nets that were bigger up top and rounded, I think you can probably see this on Google Images somewhere.

When I first saw it, the thinking behind it was, this is when all the goaltenders started to go down and seal up the bottom of the net. The idea was give the shooters something to look at, something to shoot at. So if the goalies are going to go down, give them something to shoot high. And it makes sense philosophically until I remember I spoke with one player specifically about it who said, and this is a player that made his living essentially standing in front of the net. And he brought up a great point. He said, we should be doing the opposite. If anything,

you should make the nets bigger down low. And I said, what do you mean? He goes, I stand in front of the net. There's a lot of people that stand in front of the net. We should not be encouraging pucks to go higher around the net. If anything, we should be encouraging pucks to stay low. So now whenever I see this idea of, you know, making it, I remember there, cause there were a couple of people afterwards that mentioned, let's make the nets higher. If we're not going to make them wider, let's make them higher and give teams more to shoot at. I always thought about that, about trying to keep the puck as low as possible around the net. And I think that's probably why those Larry Quinn, Darcy Regeer nets never really took off. And we just, you know, stuck with the nets that we have now,

which I guess historically we go back and are the Art Ross nets. We still have the Art Ross puck, which is why we should probably have a history podcast and talk about these types of things. I don't know how we got off on this tangent, but the reason we brought up Darcy Regier is Regier was a guy, we're talking about temperature in the arenas. Yeah. He talked about exactly exactly that what you mentioned earlier which was you shouldn't in June have people coming to or may coming to the rink when it's warm outside and they have to wear

parkas inside and what he wanted to do and I don't know where this went i should find him and ask him is he wanted synthetic ice he wanted to create synthetic ice and he said look like how much money would we save on just general maintenance and upkeep if there was effective synthetic ice and i don't know where this ever went i don't even know if it would work to be perfectly honest but that was a conversation I had with him geez it's got to be close to a decade ago yeah listen a lot of hockey trainers will use synthetic ice as rinks closed around North America a lot of players a lot of parents for their kids were buying synthetic ice it's been a great training surface for a lot of people as well. I've wondered that question before too, Elliot. And really what it hints at is what is sacred in the game and what is

hockey? It sounds like a stupid question, but of course there's got to be a puck and there's got to be a couple of nets. But after that, the question is, how integral is ice to your experience of what hockey is? And would it still be hockey if it was played on a different surface as long as there were still skates? Because I think there'd be a huge pushback if you got rid of ice. Like to me, that is, again, to me, it's part of the charm. I think for other people, it's part of the charm. I think others would look at it and say, well, as long as you can skate on it and replicate the feeling of ice and replicate what the puck does on ice, but on a synthetic surface, what's the problem here? quicker uh you wouldn't need you know ice resurfacers anymore but it does hint to the question what is hockey and how integral is ice you have a thought on that it's interesting i mean it all comes down to do we ever get to a point where this could happen

we've really gone down a world, we both worked late last night. We're a little bit punchy right now. So we're just going down goofy wormholes. Let me get it back to the NHL right now. Well, you mentioned Buffalo and you mentioned Darcy Regeer. Do you have a thought on a weekend, what we've seen?

Because I like it. What we've seen with Taylor Hall and the Buffalo Sabres, specifically in that bumper position in front of the net and he's you know he had a really interesting quote Hall did uh and he's scored from there he scored on the you know uh opening night for the Buffalo Sabres against the Washington Capitals from that bumper spot nice pass from Olofsson everyone thinks he's going to shoot over to Taylor Hall and he scores and Hall's quote is I've never played this spot before on the power play.

All I do is think about what I would want someone to do in that position if I were playing on the wall. You ever thought on the Sabres and specifically what you've seen with Taylor Hall and the Buffalo Sabres so far? I think they've played pretty hard to be perfectly honest. The one thing I think about the Sabres is I can see the frustration growing there

with the some of the injuries they've had yeah ralph kruger who's not really much of a complainer he tries to always keep it positive if you've been watching what he's been saying lately you can see his frustration really growing with delane got knocked out of a game he didn't like the play stall got knocked out of a game he didn't like the play and i know there were a few people who didn't like that play you know stall came back the next time delene came back the next time carter hutton got hurt they didn't like that play either you know there hasn't been any supplementary discipline out of any of those things but i understand the frustration of seeing this happen to you several different times.

And even if you lose these players for half a game or quarter of a game, it is significant. And it's a short season. You can't afford this. There's enough. You're battling already. That's the one thing I've noticed the most about Buffalo is that Kruger, already um that's the one thing i've noticed the most about buffalo is that kruger who publicly is never a complainer is really upset and he's doing not so slow a burn about it

we're a week in a week and change do you have any takeaways from what we've seen so far or do you look at this and say you know it's really unfair to make any, any generalizations about teams or players, because this is just a one week slice into the season. You know, generally I don't worry about Boston. I just think their culture is too good. I've really been impressed with Jersey. How about Jack Hughes the other night against

the Rangers going off two plus one. You always, you know, you look for the story within about Jack Hughes the other night against the Rangers going off? Two plus one. You always, you know, you look for the story within the story in the game, within the game, you know, back to back, first overall draft picks going head to head, Jack Hughes and Alexi Lafreniere. I think we talked about Hughes in one of our preseason podcasts, you know, putting on muscle, you know,

learning from a disappointing rookie season and talk about a team that plays hard and has faced adversity and injuries and retirements and rebuilds. And they're doing it all without Nico. He sure. I like New Jersey. I'm with you. I do too. I think they've really played well.

You know, I think has played really well is, is miles wood. He had one bad play in overtime against Boston, the second game, but he hot, he busted his ass right down the ice to cover up for it. You know, last year, Miles Wood was a guy they put on the block they weren't happy with, but he's too talented,

and, you know, there aren't a lot of guys like him, and he looks, you know, new season, new start, and he looks really good. I have liked New Jersey early. You know, I like Lindy Ruff, too. He's a guy i've dealt with a lot living in toronto and he coached buffalo for all those years i didn't like some of the reaction when he got hired he gets kind of painted with the old school brush i don't think he is i think he's a guy who's adaptable to the times the other team I'm looking at is how good is Vegas? How good is Mark Stone?

They look really good. You know, the only thing is, and this isn't their fault, you can only beat the teams on their schedule. You know, they're opening up with two against Anaheim and four in a row against Arizona, right? Yeah. All you can do is beat the teams in their schedule and they're 4-0 and they've been down in games,

they've come back. They've been up in games, they've come back. They're throwing Leonard and Fleury out back-to-back every game. They get their first real test next week when St. Louis comes to town next Tuesday and Thursday. But the early returns are, they look really good. Boston, like I said, Boston, I generally don't worry about them because I think their culture is great.

But they didn't have a five-on-five goal in their first two games. That's one thing I kind of look for there. The team that – Chicago. I think we all knew what this year was going to be. you know chicago like i think we all knew what this year was going to be it's going to be a a long long year in chicago and i think you worry there and i think this could happen to any team not just potentially the blackhawks but i think you worry there like when these teams start to fall off i know there's organizations worried that because of the stresses of playing during COVID that the players just aren't going to have the intensity, the desire that you need to win. So I'm really curious to see how that one's going to go in Chicago.

It looks like it's just going to be a really brutal year for them. Really quick, getting back to, and I think we're all on the same page about the Blackhawks. Again, no one's going to feel bad for them as we all look at their Stanley Cup rings and future Hall of Fame players. Jeff. But this is going to be a bad season, man. If I was a Blackhawk player, executive, or fan, or whatever,

and you told me this would be the trade-off for three cup rings in five years. Take it all day. I'd take it a thousand cup rings in five years. Take it all day. I'd take it a thousand times out of a thousand. Take it all day. I want to go back to your point about Vegas. And I know the schedule is the schedule, but a week into the season,

and you can say that in that week, the best player in the NHL has been Mark Stone and the best defenseman in the league so far has been Shea Theodore. Would that be fair? Well, why wouldn't it be fair? They've been spectacular. And we just saw Alex Petrangelo score his first as a Knight on Wednesday. Nice shot. It's cooking. But the one guy that I keep coming back to as well is

Mark Stone who if you're a coach at any level like you know the one guy that I keep coming back to as well is Mark Stone, who, if you're a coach at any level, like, you know, there are just some guys that as a coach, you say, play like him,

you know, just go to this game and watch this player and do what he does. Mark Stone's that guy or one of those guys. And there's a handful of them. There's another one coming in Montreal by the name of Nick Suzuki, by the way. Like he is just that coach's dream. Kids, go watch how this guy plays.

He's not the fastest by any stretch of the imagination. Doesn't have the hardest shot. When you just break down individual skill set, nothing about Mark Stone is going to leap off the page at you but shift in shift out where he plays how he plays what he does what he sees how he reacts i know we always talk about patrice bergeron as oh just as close to a perfect player as possible stone's kind of the same thing but but on the wing, is he not? Well, first of all, I think anybody who gets a star of the game and waves to the crowd, even though there's no fans in the building,

deserves a lot of credit. I feel bad for Theodore. I put in the blog that he played the most minutes in the first week without having a goal against five on five, 61 minutes. And then last night, Arizona scored when he was on the ice. Okay. So here's my prediction for the Norris Trophy. So I'll rescind that now. I'll take that away. Anything else from the first week around the NHL free, Josh? We hit a quick break and then come back with some Ask 31s. Let's do that. Let's give some audience participation. All right. Over to you guys and gals next on 31 Thoughts, the podcast.

Last night, you're named one of the stars of the game. You go out, you do the wave. Was that just because it's habit, or were you thinking, you know what, people are watching at home. Like, I'm going to wave. Give me the thought process of the wave. Well, I actually waved to our two play-by-play guys. I waved to Shane.

I got some boys. I was focused, so I didn't even wave back. Oh, that is too good. I got some boys. Focus, so they didn't wave back. Oh, that is too good. That was a serious wave, too. You know, there's not many people in the building. I mean, maybe the guys in the booth, you know, they want some acknowledgement. They want to feel like they're not alone out there. And like a true captain, making everyone feel included in the moment.

feel included in the moment. Okay, Elliot, before we get to a couple of Vast 31s, I want to get your thoughts on more so comments than game, because there really wasn't much happening in the game that we did nationally on Wednesday. The Toronto Maple Leafs and the Edmonton Oilers.

It's a three-to-one victory for Edmonton in a game where nothing really happened and there was no one there to see it outside of people that were watching on the Magic Eyeball. And there was an interesting couple of clips afterwards, one from Austin Matthews and one from head coach Sheldon Keefe as well. When we go through the pre-scout, obviously like we key in on those two guys. They're extremely dangerous to the top players in the world, but I don't think,

you know, we can't get away from our game too. And, you know, we, we got to go out there and play our game and try to produce offense. We're going to play to win, not play to contain two guys. So, I mean, if you don't play a little bit safe against this team, they're going to embarrass you like they did the last time they were in here. Elliot, how do you react to those two comments? This is one of those things where you have to really watch it.

When you see it transcribed on Twitter, you're thinking, uh-oh, what's going on here and then you watch the way matthews actually says it he's got the same expression he usually does it's not like he's angrily saying it it's more like an observation as opposed to a critique but when you read it on twitter it reads like a critique so initially i was like defcom five and then when you look at it you realize it's not like that i'm sure keith and matthews will talk about it but what i think it is interesting is it it shows you know that kind of generational or position change in the game. Like the players just want to play, right?

And they want to go out there and they want to just, they want to do what they can do. They want to unleash their skill. They want to go for it. And the coaches are like, you know what? We got to win. Same thing as Edmonton. Like you don't think that Dave Tippett was looking

at all those guys and saying, hey we're we're one in three here do you want to win or do you want to play fun oh all you had to do was look at how much edmonton was collapsing oh yeah go look at at uh shot charts like heat maps of where the maple leaves were shooting from there was nothing in front of the net this was all edmonton collapse around the net yes and also don't forget what did you start the show with last night uh the stars matthews versus mcdavid mcdavid's goal on riley well okay so this is what i wanted to get to and hearing sheldon keefe's comments did the maple leaves play scared because of what happened last january 6th that was a 6-4 edmonton win by the way over the toronto maple leaves and we all remember what happened with mcd. That was a 6-4 Edmonton win, by the way, over the Toronto Maple Leafs.

And we all remember what happened with McDavid on Morgan Riley. That's exactly what I think is what it was, is they said, we can't. And Keefe made that comment. We got embarrassed last time. I understand what coaches have to do. Like I said, after seeing the two quotes,

I don't think it's as big a deal as it potentially could have been. you know i i gotta tell you like i was disappointed in that game you know i thought it was really interesting like john buchigrosso vspn was obviously a huge hockey fan he sent out in all caps this game stinks or whatever he tweeted last night well hang on hang on pause on that that's like's like two Canadian teams on NBC, which is unique. I mean, the hook on that one is, of course, McDavid versus Matthews. And it's two of your showcase players. Yeah, it's wonderful.

And it was terrible. Like, what an awful way to showcase these two players and these two teams in the United States. It was a terrible game. And you know, Jeff, like, we're sitting there in the intermissions and we're struggling for stuff to find to talk about. And in a game like that, you shouldn't feel that you're struggling for things to talk about. Tough night.

No, the hardest, the hardest thing should be, what are you going to leave in the green room? Like, oh, we didn't get to this. Oh, we didn't get to that. Like normally we get back when we're upset and we go back to, to Lotus to, to watch the, uh, the next period we're saying,

oh, we didn't get to this. Let's see if we can get it the next intermission. We didn't have that conversation on Wednesday night, Elliot. That didn't happen. That was empty the tank and get back to the booth. Okay, so time for some hashtag S31s as we conclude the podcast this week. This comes from Michael. You've talked about this before.

American Thanksgiving has always been the date looked at in the season where teams in the playoffs by then generally don't drop out. If it's even possible, what date would that be this season? I'm looking into that. I'm trying to draw a comparison. I am working on it. Thanksgiving is usually closer to 20 games for a lot of these teams, 15, 20.

So I think you just have to do the math, but it's going to be really hard this year with games getting canceled and things like that. So I don't really have a good answer for you, but I think you just have to kind of prorate it. Okay, from Alexander Hanneman. I hope I pronounced that right. Hashtag Ask31.

How will Edmonton handle their current goaltending situation? Are they linked to any goalies? I think Edmonton's looked around. I heard they looked around. You know, we reported about Jimmy Howard. That obviously isn't going to work. The tough thing is the quarantine, right? If you acquire someone from outside of Canada, they have to go through the quarantine.

Like one story I heard about Grossnick was when they had a claim in for Dell, although they didn't get them, they were actually really good to Grossnick. They called them and told them not to cross the border and wait to find out if they got Dell or not. That way it would actually help Grossnick in case they didn't keep him and he had to go back on waivers. You know, one of the other things too is I'd heard a rumor they called Arizona about Ranta.

And what I was told was, you know, it was just kind of like a fishing, but it's dollar in, dollar out on the cap. And it wasn't really a move Edmonton could make. So I would say Alexander that they've looked into just about everything, but the unique situation of this year makes it very difficult on them. I do have to wonder when Skinner or someone else is going to get a start here. I mean, how I cost can,

I give him credit. He's competing. He knows they need them. Oh yeah. But at some point in time, someone else is going to have to get a game. From Travis Duncan, this is something I think that a lot of fans,

specifically Quebec fans, have wondered about. Do the COVID-19 times financial strains on the NHL clubs increase or decrease the likelihood of relocation to Quebec City? Hmm. I don't know about that, Jeff. I do think that this situation is going to have long-term ramifications on the league. And if there ever was a situation where a team would need to move, this could

definitely exacerbate that. And, you know, like we've talked about it. If ever the second Toronto team is going to happen, it's going to be in the aftermath out of this. I have just always wondered for Quebec City, what will the effect be on the Montreal Canadiens? Can the Montreal Canadiens handle financially a second team in Quebec?

That's always been my question. From Coach Josh, hashtag S31, could we see training camps shortened moving forward? I think that's a great question. The thing is, teams make money on exhibition games, right? Some. Some of the big ones sure do.

Yeah, you're not paying players and hey, look, there's a lot of people here. If we don't finish playing the Stanley Cup final until, what, July 9th, I could definitely see next year's camp being shortened. It's a great day. Okay, a couple of more here. Actually, I have the answer to this one from Craig Smith. Weird question.

Are the refs whistles? Is this the Craig Smith of the Boston Bruins? No, no no different this is a craig sm 04006443 that could still be craig smith this sounds like a bot uh it's a pretty sophisticated question for a bot weird question are the refs whistles different this year and in the bubble or is it just a lack of background arena noise? They sound different, almost like soccer whistles. There are new whistles this year.

Do you know what they're called? So the company that makes the whistles is Fox 40. Yes. Owned by Ron and Steve Foxcroft. They have a new whistle out this year. If you Google it, it's out there. It's called The Call, and it's named after the late, great,

former NHL director of officiating, John McCauley, whose son is, of course, Wes McCauley, and it's a P-less whistle. Now that Craig tweets this in, I'm going to listen to it. Apparently the tone is a little bit lower than regular whistles. I don't know how that's going to translate

when there are full arenas, what that's going to sound whistles. I don't know how that's going to translate when there are full arenas, what that's going to sound like. I don't know. I'm sure someone listening to this podcast right now is going to fill me in on it. But I just love that they have a whistle named after John McCauley, who, whether it's players from that era or other officials, just loved John. Like how many times have you heard, man?

I remember last time I did an interview with, uh, with Paul Stewart and he almost broke down crying talking about John McCauley. Like guys adored him. They really adored John McCauley. So yeah, the new to Elliot's point, the new Fox 40 is called the call named after John McCauley. Oh, let me get one more in here. Cause I was because I just want to tell you where this one is from. Okay.

I'm not going to tell you which Twitter account tweeted this question, but here it is. Will fighting see an increase or can even the pandemic not save us? You know where that one's from? Glenn Healy? No, at Hockey Fights. So, Hockey no at hockey fights so hockey fights oh yeah there we go we've seen a couple like wayne simmons is certainly in a snarly mood yeah we're seeing extremes here right we're seeing either real intense games or real opposite of that games if i'm hockeyfights.com right now,

and I'm worried about having content on my site. Yeah. I'm changing from hockeyfights.com to hockey scrums.com. Get into that game scrums, the new fights around the NHL with that. We'll wrap up and we'll thank you as always for listening to the podcast. And we'll thank our producer. And we'll del you as always for listening to the podcast. And we'll thank our producer and Mildelic as always.

F*** Art. That's the title of the Dirty Nils third full length album. The trio from Dundas, Ontario ushered in the new year with an 11 track album featuring tracks such as Elvis 77 to the guy who stole my bike and one more and the bill. Those are some sharp titles for songs right there, Elliot Friedman. So, from F*** Art, here's Damage Control by the Dirty Nill. I'll tell you anytime Beware the things you wanna feel Cause that don't mean they're real

By the earth, rain or sea Light a fire Looking for me I'll be gone Down a hole Faster than you can see Damage control And if you wanna talk about what's fair

I don't see any bullshit like that anywhere So long Where you gonna take