32 Thoughts: The Podcast - When You Mess Up, Fess Up And Dress Up

Episode Date: February 8, 2021

An offside controversy clouded Carolina’s win over the Blue Jackets Sunday. Jeff and Elliotte break down the situation (00:00), where the league went wrong and discuss if a rule change is needed. They also examine the struggling Canucks (20:30 & 38:00), McDavid and Draisaitl’s ice time (33:00), the injury to Wayne Simmonds (34:00), the talks around […]

how surprised were you to see i mean had you forgotten had you moved on from that offside call in the second intermission were you surprised to see them come to your room and tell you that the penalty was off you know you know what portsy i'm gonna let the league explain it they have explained it so far they've not said why the goal doesn't come off just the penalty does do you i'm i'm out that's john tortore. Elliot, when I started in this business, I got some really good advice from a guy by the name of Lou Skizis, who then was working for ROB TV, Report on Business Television. He was a reporter on that channel.

And he said to me, Jeff, as you start your career, you're going to make mistakes. We all make mistakes. Everybody's made mistakes. Here's what you need to do, though. Here's the magic formula for what to do after you make a mistake. He said, always remember this. And this has always stuck with me and I've shared it with numerous people. I'll share it with everyone on 31 Thoughts Pod right now. He said, remember this, when you mess up, fess up and dress up, that's the way you do it. Mess up, fess up, dress up.

You make a mistake, you admit it, and you own it, and you wear it. Is that, in your mind, what the NHL has done here in the Carolina-Columbus situation over the Vincent Trocek goal? I do think so. I agree with that, Jeff. It's good advice. You know, you talk about advice you're given when you start out. Scott Faschuk, who was a longtime columnist and worked in the federal government, and now, I don't know what he does. Who knows what he's actually doing. He was my

editor when I was a student reporter at the University of Western Ontario. And he thought I wasn't a very accountable person in my youth. And he always said to me, the higher you go up the food chain, the more your job description becomes eat when things go wrong. That's your job. That's what the title means. And that's what the money means. When go wrong you eat it that's your job and i've always remembered that and i believe that's true and i've tried to live to that standard and what i see with the nhl here and um you know aaron port's line of the athletic wrote a big article about what happened in that game and we both had spoken to the NHL too and it's pretty obvious here that a mistake was made and Colin Campbell who's at the top of the hockey operations food chain said I'm gonna

eat the sandwich I'm gonna put some ketchup on it maybe some oregano and some other spices I like but it's my job to open my mouth and eat it and first first of all, I really liked that in conversations with Aaron and with myself, he wouldn't name the person who was involved, the middle person who accidentally got involved here. So if you're not familiar with what happened, basically the goal was scored. York Strand, Pesci with a shot, rebound scores. Columbus challenged for the offside. And they're going to challenge this goal. The coach is challenged by Columbus

to determine if the play was offside of the blue line right or the goal okay so they're going to say it was offside this is the first challenge of the year for us isn't it? it is and while they were reviewing it there's sort of a middle person who's responsible to make sure

that all the communications are happening but is not supposed to be involved in the process had their mic open and saw the replay and said that's a good goal and the officials on the headset at the rink thought that was the nhl telling them that was a good goal because on offside reviews the league situation room has the final call. So they thought that was someone from the NHL situation room saying that's a good goal, when instead it was someone who was responsible for communications

with their mic open, looking at the one replay, not the other replays, and saying that's a good goal. After reviewing the play, the call on the ice will stand. We have a goal. Columbus will be charged with a two-minute minor penalty for delay game. Now, because of COVID, they took the headsets off. You have to clean them.

And the league couldn't reach anyone to stop the game. And here's where it goes so there's 145 left in the period when carolina scores to make it four to three they get to the intermission and the nhl makes a decision columbus had to take a penalty thank freaking god carolina didn't score at that time and they said we're ending the rest of the penalty we're stopping it Columbus doesn't have to kill the rest of this penalty and they were even worried about doing that Jeff they were like there's no precedent for this and my position is I don't care if Carolina scores a second goal it's an enormous disaster as opposed to being the problem it already is. So I support the decision 100% to end that penalty.

Now, the other thing that happens here is that there's a discussion on whether or not they should have taken the goal off and put the time back on. It sounds to me, and I don't know this for sure, but there's a rumor going around this morning that Columbus asked that for hat to happen. Go back to three, three, drop the puck. It's still tied.

Resume the game. Pause for one second there, Elliot, because further to that point, Yarmulke Kalanen said this quote, the game is fast mistakes happen but in this one I think we missed an opportunity to make it right so that would be consistent with what you're saying about Columbus asking them to take the goal away yes I think they did I heard they did you know nobody would confirm that to me but I heard that it happened okay now this is me talking and it's easy for me to say with 2020 hindsight but i think i know myself and i think

in the moment i would have done it i agree with the league's decision to end the penalty in the intermission i think that's a hundred percent the right call i think they just said and you what's the rule you quoted you you have a rule 37.2 no goal may be disallowed or awarded as a result of a video review once the puck has been dropped and play has resumed now i would have you know me i like to try to see what i can get away with sometimes truth if i was in charge i would have done it I would have said, if I get whatever trouble I get in, okay, let me finish. And then you can tell me how stupid I am. I would have just said, I don't care how much trouble I get in.

I don't care. There's no precedent. I'm doing it. Like in major league baseball, the commissioner has the integrity of the game clause, right? Yes. To me, this is the integrity of the game clause, right? Yes. To me, this is the integrity of the game. Because all I could say is if I was in Columbus's shoes or even if I was in Caroline's shoes,

I would want precedence to get the call right because I wouldn't want that to happen to me later. I get it. There's so much at stake at these games. And I'll take it to the extreme. I don't like going to the extremes, but I'll do it in this case. If Columbus misses the playoffs by a couple of points, and we're all struggling to get our businesses back here,

how much does that mean in season ticket revenue? How much does that mean in all that? So at a time when we're all talking about money, whether we're a business or we're families who are worried about taking care of their loved ones you scratch and you claw for every dollar there are real dollars at stake and you want to get the call right if it was me i would have said all right commissioner deputy commissioner i made the call I know legally I'm not supposed to do that but whatever trouble you want to give me I will take my paddling but I think it's the right thing to do for the game okay but then what I would come back with is yeah I don't know that it is the officials or it is the war room's job to interpret the rules because here becomes the question

if you do that if you go back and say hold on we made a mistake there was a miscommunication let's remove that goal all the while as rule 37.2 exists, I think afterwards, one of the conversation becomes, what's the rule book for? I understand where you're coming from because the right call was not made. And I get that. I do worry about law of unintended consequences when it comes to all of it

because going frame by frame and pixel by pixel over zone entries right now all comes from, was it the Matt DeShane play and an Alec Martinez play as well. And we didn't think it would get to this, but here we are. I just wonder how much the conversation would turn to,

well, hang on a second here. I didn't know it was your job to, or I didn't know the rule book was open to interpretation as opposed to fact and agreed upon principles, whether it is the right call or the wrong call at the moment. Yeah. You know, Jeff, I understand all that. And this is why I like the old joke. And I saw, especially since I have two close friends who are lawyers, what do you call 20,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? A good start.

What's the joke about why the shark put the lawyer back on the beach professional courtesy that's i like that one i didn't know that one you know i just think at the end of the day you want to do the right thing for your sport and like i said they ate it they even did something that they they can't really do which was erase the penalty. Like Campbell took the rule book into his own hands, which I completely agree with here. Again, it's easy for me to say with 20-20 hindsight, but I think if I was there, I would have gone farther. I would have just said, guys, we're going back to that whistle

and we're saying 3-3 and we're dropping the puck at center ice or in the zone or whatever, wherever you're supposed to drop the puck. I don't ever want to see reviews for, okay, Conor McDavid was held there. The Oilers are throwing the challenge flag so that we can see if Conor McDavid was held. I never want that. I think it's bad, and I don't want that. But this was an administrative error.

And the other thing too is that things are so messed up now because of COVID and everything. This was an administrative error. Nobody was trying to do anything bad here. Things just got screwed up. Why can't we say, look, we had administrative error, we want to fix it, and we want to make it fair to everybody. I don't see the problem with that. If someone has a problem with that, I don't care. Like just rip me on Twitter. I do not care.

At the end of the day, do the right thing. Another sidebar to this one, and we opened up with a John Tortorella quote is the John Tortorella clip is John Tortorella, who we can recall the last time there was a saga involving the officials. This one led to an injured player was last December against Chicago. The too many men on the ice call. They asked for the clock to go back to 19.2 seconds.

They left it at 18.1. Zach Wierenski scores, but it was ruled that it was 0.2 seconds after the buzzer. If they had moved the clock back, it would have counted. It goes to a shootout. Jonas Corposalo gets injured on the Jonathan Taves goal. And John Tortorella goes banana sandwich. Now, many would think that after Sunday's game,

we'd see another version of what we saw last december out of john tortorella but he was very measured and didn't want to take the cheese in the trap do you have a theory as to why a couple reasons number one every other team in that division knows that columbus is getting the power play advantage for the rest of the year probably Probably right. So, you know, you can kick people when they're down or you can just say, you know, it sucks, but we're going to try to make the best of it. And that's what I think Tortorella's doing here. And I think it's the smart play.

Also, don't forget, and I can see Tortorella thinking this. He's been in the news a lot because of all the Dubois stuff. Yeah. And I can see him just saying i'm not feeding that beast anymore i i we've already played the um us against the world card you know we're struggling a bit here we have to focus on getting ourselves right and i could just see him saying i was in the middle of the dubois and you know i said a lot and it was big it was headlines i can't be the story right now i have to do it this way i think he thinks like that and i could see that being

effective i think he's a calculated guy that way as well you know what it's sort of you know these headlines dominated what the other headline from that game was was it was a wild game good game it was entertaining game entertaining game patrick lion a with some claps. It was really good. And to your point earlier about bleep sandwich, we'd like to put forth from here on out, we refer to that as shark sandwich. Spinal tap fans will love that and are nodding approvingly right now.

With that, we'll kick it off. Welcome to 31 Thoughts, the podcast presented by the GMC Sierra 1840. Here's the final snap of the ball game. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers, underdogs at home, for the first time in NFL history, hosting a Super Bowl on our home field. The defense does its job.

Great job, defense. And Tom Brady just does his thing. How about that? His 10th Super Bowl. Golly, is this his 6th ring? 7th ring? 7th. 7th ring. That's hard to believe.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers 31, Chiefs 9. One second. There it is. 0-0-0. Bucs win! Bucs win, Bucs win. The Super Bowl 55. Elliott Friedman timestamp, 1049 Eastern PM on Sunday evening. This is post Super Bowl where Buccaneers fans are basking in their Brady glow.

Listen, on the totem pole of sports for me, football is nowhere near the top, but I did have it on. I am a very, very casual football fan, but I do understand the greatness that is Tom Brady. I think it's impossible not to. What did you make before we get to hockey? What did you make of the Super Bowl? To me, life is a lot about attitude. Do you believe in yourself? Do you believe in you can make a difference? LeBron James is like that guy too. He believes he makes a difference and he makes an attitude. Tom Brady, he changes franchises. He believes in himself and he's an attitude. Zdeno Chara, I think, is a lot that way too.

I think it's a lot harder to be that guy in the NHL because one single player has much less influence on a game in the National Hockey league than he or she does in a basketball game or a football game but i do believe there are people who change franchises when they show up there they bring with them a way of doing business i always remember the the great kurt gibson story about signing with the dodgers in 1988. He was a fiercely competitive player and he showed up in spring training and somebody played a practical joke where they used a Sharpie to really color the inside of his batting helmet black and it left like a mark on his forehead.

Instead of laughing about it, he screamed like people on this team just want to play jokes. They don't want to win. And the whole Dodger mentality changed. Like, I just think Brady is that kind of guy. Look how many people, you know, came to Tampa Bay to play with him this year from Gronkowski on down. You know, Leonard Fournette, who had a huge game in the Super Bowl. Look at all the players who want to come and play with him.

I just think that he changes franchises for the better because he demands so much of himself and the true leaders, like you can talk and you can bark all you want, but do you demand of yourself as much as you demand of others? And I think he's one of those guys you know their defense did a great job unbelievable job but to me the tampa bay buccaneers believe they could win because tom brady was there leading the way that's my feeling just to pick up on that vibe tube um this off season at uh in mlb i was talking to someone who i opinion I really, really respect, someone that's been there and understands it.

And I said, you know, out of all the free agents that are available, which one do you think would have the most impact on the Blue Jays roster? I'm a Blue Jays fan. So I want to know these things. Which free agent? And he said, JT Real Muto. And I said, the Jays have like a million catchers. Why would they look at Real Muto and I said the Jays have like a million catchers why would they look at Real Muto

and he said because he would walk into that room and everybody in that room and it's a very young ball club would say we don't work hard enough and we're not professional enough we need to step up our game just by walking in that

room and seeing how this guy prepares for a game, how he behaves during the game, after the game, like all of it, that it would give a lift to everybody on that team. So I understand exactly what you're saying about how one guy can demand it from an entire dressing room. I've always believed too

that people want to follow good leadership. They will follow people who they believe wants to lead for the right ways and wants to make everybody and them better. Even leaders follow other leaders like that. The Boston Bruins as a group over the years have been proof of that. You look at their culture in the last decade, they won one cup and they went to two other finals. That's the culture that wins. And Brady is right at the forefront of it. I'm just trying to think of a hockey example,

like a team that was like that. And the one that jumps to mind is that Islanders Dynasty team. They may have been the best example of that, that I, that I can think of that had like sustaining success. Nobody's going to break that record 19 series in a row, right? No, of course not. No one's touching that one.

But you mean you look in the salary cap era and, you know, essentially it's every season there's a new Stanley cup champion, like just the nature of what I guess a salary cap does to it. But that Islanders team, like when you talk to anybody i guess a salary cap does to it but that islanders team like when you talk to anybody on that squad from trache to gillies to bob bourne to stefan pearson to billy smith to denny podfang or right gary howard nystrom like all of them they'll all say the same thing about making each other accountable and you know level of professionalism and hard work all that stuff and then listen and how many times have you heard kelly rudy talk about al arbor or talk about bill

tory those guys were tough on players man yes totally there's an expectation for all of them but the players were also really tough on other players kelly said that they were great for him, but you know, he saw the way how demanding, you know, pot van was Billy Smith was trot. She was boss. He was, you know, there wasn't room for you there. If you couldn't handle how demanding they were. Yep. All right. Um, on this podcast, we're going to go over a couple of different things here.

Um, one, we're not going to make this one too long. Um, and a lot of the stuff we sort of talked about a little bit, we'll try to move a couple of different things here um one we're not going to make this one too long um and a lot of the stuff we sort of talked about a little bit we'll try to move a couple of stories forward here because there have been some games and some new information to deal with because of it what's your read on vancouver right now i don't want to i don't want to pile on anybody here especially not jim benning who's hearing it from all circles but something's really wrong there but see the theory that's out there is the team doesn't want to play for the normally we hear a team doesn't want to play for a coach the theory out there is the team doesn't want to play for the GM I think it's deeper than that now look like you've heard me say this line before

you can hate your boss like we all hate our bosses sometimes you know every time I say that Eddie Hall asked me about that like who do you hate right now Eddie Hall for those of you who your boss like we all hate our bosses sometimes you know every time i say that eddie hall asked me about that like who do you hate right now eddie hall for those of you who don't know is the executive producer executive producer of uh production and programming for hockey he always says you know i'm talking about who are you hating and how often do you hate us yeah i should next time he says that to me i'm to say every time you ask me that question I hate you look like everyone listening to this has a day where they go to work and they don't like their boss or if you're the boss you just don't like one of your employees but it's not acceptable like everybody can have a bad day everyone can have a bad game you play 56 games and not all

of them are going to be Mona Lisa's right there's going to be some garbage in there. But it's enough already. Let's just say for argument's sake, the problem is the players are unhappy with the GM. They're 15 games in. It is not acceptable anymore to use that as an excuse. You still have to show up to work. You have to do your job. You have to have your own pride.

Like I said, there have been times I haven't liked my bosses, but I don't think it means it's acceptable. Maybe you can have a bad show, but it's not acceptable to have two bad shows. And they're doing the little things wrong. They are letting the Maple Leafs go up and down. And there's a game Monday night. This is dropping Monday morning. They play again Monday night. They are letting the Maple Leafs go up and down the ice at will against them. That's effort. That's effort.

The one thing that you can notice instantly in these last two games is how much ice the Maple Leafs have to play with between the Vancouver forwards and the Vancouver defense. There is so much ice that they're letting him skate on. Montreal does not give you that much ice to skate with at all. But Toronto, look at the sheet that they're given. So Thursday night, the Matthews goal,

the first goal where he goes around, where he embarrasses JT Miller. Leafs come up with the puck and here comes Matthews quickly through center, find some room on the left wing. Matthews to the net, scores! Just blew past JT Miller, who was going to get a penalty, I think, for hooking, but it's a moot point as Matthews makes it one nothing close to offside but the Leafs are able to hang on and Austin

Matthews speed speed speed the coach said to me Demko it goes between his legs it looks bad Demko should have had it said Miller was torched he's not a defenseman Matthew saw it immediately credit to Matthews people were going to blame Hughes because Hughes made the pinch and Matthews beat them all but he said the other play that stood out to him as a coach was Besser and he said Besser and Matthews are right near each other right in the by the Maple Leaf net and Matthews just blows by Besser and he said that what you would say to your player is and in this particular situation it's Besser you have to bump Matthews there. You cannot let him get ahead of steam. Just bump him. And he says,

those are the little things that all the Canucks aren't doing right now. Now, the thing that stood out to me on Saturday night was Holtby. And I said it on air on the show. I did a lot of playoff games with Washington over the years. And Holtby, even in games where the Capitals stunk in front of him, Holtby never ripped them. And as a matter of fact, he would like snarkily, not rudely,

but snarkily snap a bit at the questioner. What about the team in front of you? He'd go, I don't worry about that. It's not my job. It's to worry about that. It's not my job. It's to worry about them. It's my job to stop the puck. And some people took that as, I remember the first time it happened, I was like, ooh, that's interesting.

And I asked someone about it, and they said, Holtby really believes that, for the most part, he knows where the shots are supposed to come from, and he should be able to save them. And he never gets mad. And that second night, the Saturday, was pointed. He was making a point to stare down Miller on two occasions. And I don't know if he's got something with Miller

or it's just a general thing. And then in the postgame, he said, I mean, we need to expect a little more out of ourselves. I mean, I can't speak to last year obviously being here but I can speak to losing in the second round before and that's not a satisfied thing and I think we got to get over that. So this year is this year we need to do what we need to do to win and as a group we need to be a little better that starts from myself on out

it's hard to take losses like this either way they're piling up on us and i think uh that's um extremely frustrating i think the only way to do that is get work or get out of it is to get back to work you know all the ourselves accountable individually um as a hand as a team and find a way to get on the same page we're a disconnected group right now um showing and um you know we need to find a way to fight through that that's different than the holt b i saw in washington that says to me that he doesn't think that he and demko are being protected it is not simply a matter of we have to make the save. It is that we are not being put in position to succeed. I'll tell you what former players I've asked about it say.

They say there's something wrong in there. There is a problem in the room or something that has affected the way they play because they're not playing for each other and their organization right now it's that simple to pick up on that i understand the idea that they shouldn't behave like that that at the end of it you have to be a professional and etc etc and do your job and you have a personal responsibility and have some dignity about your work. Just saying that doesn't solve anything though. No. Just because they should be doing it doesn't absolve you from doing anything about it.

Can the Vancouver Canucks do anything about it right now? Can Jim Benning do anything about it right now? Can Travis Green do anything about it right now? Can Aquilini do anything about it right now? Can Travis Green do anything about it right now? Can Aquilini do anything about it right now? Or do you just say, we're 15 games in? Well, I'm sure they want to do something about it. Here's the problem. If you make a trade, the trade's not in Canada, for example. Yeah, you's the problem. If you make a trade, the trades,

not in Canada first, for example, you got two weeks, you're losing the player. And I do think for Tannen, and this is not blaming for Tannen. I think it's simply a realization that it's time for him to go somewhere else. And if you can get another piece that can maybe help you,

you do it. Like, I think one of the teams that has been sniffing around for 10 is Boston. And, you know, if you can do something with the Bruins or someone else, I think Ottawa is a team that's had some interest in for Tannen in the past. That might be easier because it's Canada. But, you know, the fact is if you can't do something like that the help's not coming quick you mentioned this podcast coming out monday morning there's a game monday night i hate using must win so early in the season but what does this one feel like for

vancouver for you before you move on from the canucks? It feels really bad. It does. You know, we're starting to see some separation in Canada, right? Yeah. Montreal and Toronto look like the class of the division. I really like the way Winnipeg played shorthanded. No Roslevic, no Lani, no Dubois. They battled. I like them a lot in that way. You know, Ottawa, they're down at the end.

Vancouver's played more games than anyone else. You know, they got they're down at the end. Vancouver's played more games than anyone else. You know, they got to turn it around. I mean, right now it looks like Calgary-Edmonton for the fourth spot, right? But I don't think Calgary hasn't had their Ottawa experience yet, have they? No, they have them all around the deadline. Calgary may be a fast mover then. It'll be interesting. What did you think of that Calgary-Edmonton game on Saturday night?

Like everybody else, if I'm the Oilers, I'm just begging for a save. And then I wasn't surprised at the end to see the ice times of Conor McDavid and Leon Dreisaddle because, you know, save me, Obi-Wan. You're my only hope, whatever the quote is from Princess Leia in Star Wars. Good game. It was a fun game. You know, a week ago, I was praising Koskinen for battling and, you know, really rough night last night.

Yeah, don't you think he's exhausted by now? Yes. He must be just whipped. He's getting torn apart like crazy right now, specifically in Edmonton. And all I can think to myself is, man, you've ridden this horse into the ground. Yes, that's fair.

You know what? i would agree with that i think that's very fair very fair i like your take better than mine in this one like like i said last week i was really praising him for how hard he played i like your take better than mine let him come up for a breath i mean you drag this guy into deep water it's yeah his time now how about dry sidling mcdavid playing the last 545 so connor 554 and leon 548 at the end of the game oh really it must have it must have changed because initially when i checked the score sheet after the game it was 545 for both okay i checked out this afternoon and that's okay it changes sometimes that does happen so i mean i'm not surprised that's the two that's like i don't want to say that's the team because that's insulting to a whole bunch of hockey players but that's the class

of that organization and if you're going to get it done it's going to be those guys and again this is not necessarily a knock on on miko koskinen but you know there's a lot of work that the Oilers did on Saturday that got undone with some pretty poor goals that they let in. So at the end of it, you're desperate. Throw them out there. It's going to be a battle. What did you think? Like five minutes each at the end of the game. I mean, you had a one time out.

You had a power play. I mean, I'm not on the bench. Seems like a lot. When I was heavier, PJ Stock would say to me, mix in a salad. At the end of that game, I'm thinking, mix in someone else. I don't know. You know, like, could there have been one shift where he gave him a breather? I mean, like I said, there was a power play.

There was a timeout. I get it, but I'll tell you this. You know what it does, Jeff? It shows the desperation. It really does. These games, they're meaningful now. We're not even at game 15 for these teams. That was game 11 for Calgary, 13 for Edmonton,

and with that loss, they drop below 500 with that one. But I look at that like that's a move you make towards the end of the season when you're fighting for a playoff spot. It's game 13. Yeah. It's game 13. You got these two guys out there for five and a half minutes.

You know what that says to me? That everything feels like it's a playoff game. Everything feels like it's a playoff game. Everything feels like it's a playoff game. It also says that Toronto and Montreal have created the separation, so now you're thinking, okay, we're battling for two spots. But you know what else I bet you they're thinking?

Everything's going okay in Canada right now. But what if we start losing games? And we don't have enough points that are banked? Yep. Other end of that rink, the Calgary Flames. Yep. Scratched on Thursday, back on Saturday. I thought Bennett played a real good game on Saturday.

I really like what Kevin said at the top of the show. If you want to get traded, you have to show why someone's going to, you have to be tradable, I guess was his line. Yeah. I thought that was a really good line. I think he was scratched partially because he wasn't playing well. And I do think that also, I think there were some things picking up and I don't know if it was ever

close, but I think Calgary thought there was at least a possibility. So I'm calling that a scratch for mixed reasons. Okay. But he played better no question about it uh the other story coming out of the weekend in the uh the north and i want to get a quick thought on the florida panthers here in a couple of seconds yeah but uh with the maple leaves another real good game for wayne simmons another game for Austin Matthews, Mitch Marner. Like, okay, those are all the headline players, and they get plenty of time on this podcast and elsewhere.

But the goal beside the net with nothing to shoot at is fantastic. And then to watch at the end of the game as he eats one in his hand and the outlook isn't good for Waynene simmons like just when he's his career's picking up again in the hockey media center of the world that happens yeah that was tough to watch just on a clear out it sucked yeah there's no other way to say it it sucked and i think that it sucked for the leafs too because it was working so well for them and him so i have to tell you i wrote on a piece of paper today a winger that i think the maple leafs are interested in and i have put it down and i want to see if it happens i'm not

putting it out there yet you know what just say it at the end of the podcast when no one's listening anymore. I can't prove it. But I think it's a guy they're interested in. And I'm going to wait to see if I can prove it or it happens. But I think there's a winger out there they're interested in. And then you'll tweet that piece of paper. No, I won't do it if I'm right. I'll probably just tell you because I think it's too arrogant to do that. I just tell you all right fair enough and then i'll tell it on the podcast here great okay

i do want to get a couple thoughts here on the florida panthers why today well they lost and that might seem weird but it's their first regulation law they dropped her to the detroit red wings how about anthony mantha healthy scratch well that okay so that's a weird one too so he goes on like this three goals and three game rip uh you can tell that blaschel still not in love with his play plays against tampa the streak ends and he's scratched against the florida panthers hasn't it seemed like it's been sort of drama at a lot of different turns i know we're supposed to be talking about florida here but drama at a lot of different turns for anth know we're supposed to be talking about Florida here, but drama at a lot of different turns for Anthony Mantha with the Detroit Red Wings.

Remember those Jimmy DeVolano quotes from a few years ago about, oh, I'm not sure if it's ever going to work out for the kid. It just seems as if there's always been something between Mantha and the Detroit Red Wings, and then today is the healthy scratch for Mantha. But for the Florida Panthers, I but for the the florida panthers i know at the beginning of this season you mentioned something that's that was really

interesting which is you know one of the great stories that isn't getting much attention is the status of alexander barkoff who's a free agent not this year but next year but do you really want to let go of a, what will it be, 26 years old, 26-year-old center in the prime of his career? Do you let that escape to free agency? And you just look at players that Barkov has helped get paid. And most recently, Yevgeny Dadunov is that guy that he helped get paid.

Carter Verhage might be that guy now. Do you have a thought right now on what's happening with the Florida Panthers? I know they haven't played as many games as everybody else. Not their fault. Everybody around them. Everybody around them was sick. That was only game nine for the Florida Panthers against the Red Wings. They haven't played Dallas. They haven't played Dallas.

They haven't played Tampa. And they haven't played Carolina. But again, that's not their fault. You can only beat the teams that are on your schedule. You win your games. You ever thought on the Cats? You know what else I'm really happy for is Chris Drieger. Oh, totally.

100%. You know, while Bobrovsky's waited to get his footing, has given them some some really good minutes look like i said you're beating the teams you can beat they've put themselves in position to be successful and that's all you can ask oh you know i gotta tell you something else too like last week one thing that was really interesting to me luongo getting named to team canada why was that interesting to you? He's always been a Hockey Canada guy.

Like, I know it was different, but I couldn't be that surprised. Let me ask you something. Yeah. This is just me talking. Okay. Let's just say there was a GM change in Vancouver. Do you think they'd make a run at him? What's the temperature with him in Vancouver?

Those fans love him. Oh, I know they love him. I have a theory now. Like, Jeff, I have a new theory. I don't know that they would hire him just because he's not that far removed from playing. How many of the guys on that team played with him? Not many. Edler.

I'm just talking about from an experience point of view. To put two hands on a wheel on this Vancouver team that right now is in an identity crisis, I don't know. Well, that's the thing. If you're making the change here, okay, eventually, why can't he do it? He knows the market. He knows the heat of it.

He knows the craziness of it. Now, biggest question we haven't asked is would he want to do it okay that's number one you know florida's his home but number two he knows the market he knows what it's like i mean obviously you'd have to get people around him to handle see i think right now that you know mike gillis's thing went online a couple of weeks ago, his whole plan portfolio, whatever you want to call it. But one of the things that I really feel that he kind of talks about there is in Canada, you can't just have one person running your organization anymore. I think all Canadian teams, at least, and some US teams, if not all of them, because I think it's smart, should have two people running their show.

There's the hockey person and the manager. And you can decide who's above who. It can't be equal. Somebody has to be able to make the call. But you have your top hockey person and your top manager. Your top hockey person is responsible for the hockey philosophy of your organization. This is our identity. These are the players that we're interested in. These are the players we're

going to draft. And you go and you see those players. You don't just send a pro scout or an amateur scout. You go. The go the manager that person is responsible for the day-to-day operation of your team and your organization they're with your team all the time they're at every game they're at every practice they handle the media they basically make sure that the operation is running properly like i I remember talking about what Jim Nill wants. Jim Nill in Dallas, he's a hockey person. Okay. He might be a good manager too in terms of managing the day-to-day operations.

I don't see that. I don't know. Like Jim Nill got the job in Dallas because he knows players. He's smart. Let him go see players and then put someone next to him who is responsible for the day-to-day operation of the team. That's what I would do. I pressed conference last week with the Rangers.

Who was at the desk? John Davidson and Jeff Gordon. They both answered questions. Davidson handled the philosophical questions. Davidson handled the philosophical questions. Gordon handled the hockey questions. I'm looking at that and I'm saying that's how it should be. Do you think I'm nuts?

No, I don't think you're nuts. And you know what name jumps out at me right away? And maybe it's just because of the history in the marketplace. If he's going to go and it's going to be a duo that takes over, like your Davidson-son gorton um analogy roberto loango and lawrence gilman well i mean you could do that i mean one thing about gilman gilman and aquilini they didn't end very well but that doesn't mean it can't change if i'm the

canucks that's what i'm doing i have my hockey person and I have my manager person and I'm doing that everywhere. I'm doing that everywhere in Canada. And like I said, I would probably do it everywhere in the NHL. Like I remember like talking about with Jim Nill in Dallas, there are so many things you have to do. You're in charge of making the hockey decisions,

but you have so many fires you have to put out around your team. Go let that person scout, see players. They can be in charge of the trades. They can go to the GM meetings and let your manager, I'm on the road every game. I'm at every practice. I'm at every home game.

I'm putting out the fires with the media if I have to. So, and also you could be the most experienced general manager in the world, but you need good people around you. Find good people. I mean, I don't know. I'm just talking out of my butt here. The talking out of my butt podcast is what we're beginning to call it. But that's the way I'm thinking about the job now is it's a two-person job.

With the Luongo example in Vancouver, the first thing that comes to my mind when you bring that up is if you're going to make the change, does there need to be an offering to the marketplace? Like what are you talking about an offering? An offering in that we're bringing back a hero here. We're bringing back someone that took us to the Stanley Cup final. We're bringing back one of the more beloved netminders

and personalities this market has ever known in Luongo. I'm always sensitive to the, maybe show business is the wrong term, but the show business aspect of all of it. I think winning the press conference is a terrible strategy. I would never suggest anything that is about winning the press conference.

I think it is an awful, it's a loser strategy. You have to have a plan and you have to go with your plan. Like I said, Vancouver is going through all this craziness right now. They're at a real tough point. And, you know, I saw Luongo and I thought Doug Armstrong went out of his way to say, this is not about goalies. This is about a guy who knows players and is pretty smart that's true and you know we've talked to Luongo before he pays attention he watches games he

knows what's going on he understands the league as a player I think that someday he is going to be if he wants to be he's going to run a hockey operation department in this league. So one of the reasons I suggest him is because he knows the heat. He's seen the best of that market. He has seen the worst of that market. He has benefited from the best of that market and he's been hammered by the worst of that market if he goes in there he understands so to me it's not win the press conference or go for pr hits it's because i think it's someday he has a chance to be a really good leader of a hockey operations department and he goes in there with the advantage of understanding the market if he's their person and i and y'all tell

you this i think the gilman idea is a very good idea and that's where i and i 100 believe in vancouver i'm going hockey person manager person hockey person has the final say but the manager person runs the day-to-day operation while the hockey person thinks big picture. So we took the Florida Panthers and made it about the Vancouver Canucks. Sorry. Yeah. I'm sorry, Florida. I promise I'll talk more about Florida in the future. Okay.

Hold on to that thought for the next podcast, perhaps. I told you I'd ask you about the Pittsburgh Penguins every single podcast, but I want to ask you about one very specific name. Because you know that some people have pulled out. I think some eyebrows were raised when Drury did, but then as you mentioned with the Rangers, when he took the associate general manager position, we all said, okay, well, that's why. Last week on Scotiabank Wednesday Night Hockey, we had the Boston Bruins and the Philadelphia Flyers. So you do a lot of your investigations. And I thought

during one of our intermissions, we were going to have a conversation about, I think it was going to do an NHL gloss, what's happening around the league. And I figured we'd be doing something on the Pittsburgh Penguins general manager search. And so I wondered, as many of us have, about John Ferguson.

Yeah. We haven't seen him in that general manager role since the Toronto Maple Leafs. After the Maple Leafs, he went to the San Jose Sharks and has been with the Boston Bruins for a number of years now. What do you make of John Ferguson with the Pittsburgh Penguins? I think he's got a shot. I think he has a shot at it.

The reason I bring it up is Toronto's a meat grinder. Yep. And we see how hard it is for people to get, and we see this most specifically with coaches than anything else, but even with managers. When you go through it in Toronto, either it does something to your motivation or the marketplace sours on you if it doesn't work,

but it's more challenging to get back in when you go through it. When Chris Johnston talked about Ferguson, not this past week in our headlines, but a week ago, he said something interesting about how they saw John Ferguson as a comparison to Mike Sullivan, a guy who had his initial chance. It didn't work, but with experience and learning came back and was very successful. And I've seen that written and said in a couple of different places since Chris said it. So that says to me, like people aren't making this up. Somebody is telling them that.

And I would guess knowing the way Chris works and the way other people have talked about it, I think I've seen it in some of the Pittsburgh media's reporting too. I think the Penguins are potentially thinking that because they benefited from it. Mike Sullivan had his first run in Boston. It didn't work. He went back. He started again.

He learned from his mistakes, and he won two Stanley Cups as head coach of the Penguins. I could see Pittsburgh thinking like that. Boston thinks like this. Of course. Look at Bruce Cassidy. Bruce Cassidy is kind of a similar story. Very good call.

Very good call on your part. That is two smart things you said on this podcast. Well, I'm over my quota then, so we should probably shut it down soon. But just in doing some poking around about Ferguson. So he has been as either an assistant or a general manager. And I'm not going to put you on the spot and say like, do you know anyone else that's ever done this?

Because that's completely unfair. That's what the internet is for. And that's for our listeners who are smarter than us can tweet it and say, well, dummy, think of this guy. So going back to when he was an assistant with the St. Louis Blues, he has never been part of an organization that has drafted in or traded out of the top 10 in the draft. Going back to 1997, I don't know that anyone else as a manager with an organization could say

that. Again, I just suspect that. I don't know if it's true that no one else has done that. But as I stumbled across, I'm like, wow, that's something to consistently be part of organizations that have that type of success. That's an interesting one. Is there anything more on Pittsburgh? You saw the list of people I put out.

So these are the interviews that I, in case you didn't see it, these are the people I think who I've interviewed. Patrick Alvine, who's the current incumbent. This is Alphabetical Order. John Ferguson, Michael Fuda, and I'm careful with him because he's our co-worker now. It's a bit of conflict of interest uh Ron Hextall Mark Hunter Jason Carmanos Chris McFarlane and Kevin Weeks now I was told they will try to whittle down this list and the second round of interviews will include the owners Ron Berkley and Mario Lemieux but I've also heard that um there's a chance that some

other names could be interviewed. But that's kind of where we are. And I don't think they want to wait. I think they played Saturday night. They lost to the Islanders. And now they have a bit of a break. They don't play again until Thursday. Now, I don't think they're going to have something done by Thursday.

But I think they would like to. I mean, I could be wrong, but I think they could be in position to be seriously thinking about someone by then. We said this was going to be a post-Super Bowl podcast. We were only going to do 20 minutes and Elliot, we failed. Because I am a bloviator.

Come as a surprise to nobody. Listen, thanks as always for listening. Thanks for our producer, Amal Delic. As always, another podcast coming up later on this week. Taking us out, a Toronto-based band that blends jazz-laden rhythm, propulsive bass, and commanding soul. From their 2012 debut album,

here's Babe with The Only Way on 31 Thoughts, the podcast. You asked me once, I told you twice The Only Way on 31 Thoughts, the podcast. We light a load, a light will shine from our new home Let's take a mouth and spread its pieces over water And the only way we live is if we die We're sipping blood to pass the time while we say goodbye the only way we live is if he dies we're sipping blood to pass the time while we say goodbye.