32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Where are the Patrick Kane Winds Blowing?

Episode Date: November 27, 2023

Jeff and Elliotte share the latest developments in Patrick Kane's future as the free agent continues to assess his options while also limiting the amount of information that has leaked out. Are the Detroit Red Wings the new clubhouse leader (1:29)? They dive into what happened between the NHL and Marc-Andre Fleury last week and key in on the NHL's bigger worry behind individual causes (19:03). Jeff and Elliotte discuss whether Jacob Trouba's punishment was too light for hitting a player in the head with his hockey stick (46:04), talk about the Dmitri Voronkov situation in Columbus (49:31), and Jeff and Elliotte close out the podcast by talking about friend of the podcast and pro wrestler, CM Punk (57:25).The guys answer your questions in the Montana’s Thought Line (26:20). Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Montana's Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Yeah, what's the issue with that? Well, that it's an official helping a player off the ice. Yeah, so what? We got a text about it. No, but if you're Vancouver, do you raise a stink? Like, if he's hurt, like, you don't pick him up and take... Come on. Listen, listen, listen.

Elliot, Elliot, calm down. No, no, no, I'm going to be enraged. Enraged. Only, can I tell you this? I'm going to light up Canuckucks twitter on fire i'm gonna say only a canuck fan on social media would complain 32 thoughts welcome once again to your favorite podcast brought to you by the all-new gmc sierra hd merrick alongside friedman and old dom schramatti it is sticking elliot it is sticking

uh lots to get to jac Truba, we will discuss. We'll discuss Marc-Andre Fleury and his mask from Friday night. We should also park some time to talk about the Columbus Blue Jackets in a situation that they find themselves in. We should also park some time to talk about teams you may or may not be concerned about. We're going to get there shortly. But let's open up by talking about Patrick Kane. And on Saturday's headlines and on your blog last week, you discussed how Patrick Kane had done a lot of research into the Detroit Red Wings. And you've also mentioned a couple of different times how difficult it's been to get any information out of this story. So if he's doing a lot of information seeking around the Detroit Red Wings, It's not exactly a surprise then that no information

is getting out. Are the winds blowing the wings way? Jeffrey, the easiest and most simple answer to your question is yes. Some of the winds are blowing towards Detroit. But if you know any meteorologists or anyone who's delivered the weather on television, like the current host of Hockey Night in Canada, Ron McLean, who was a weatherman earlier in his career, you know that they will tell you that winds can blow different directions at the same time. And as someone said to me on Sunday morning, discussing my conversations about Kane, quote, no one hedges better than Elliott Friedman. And that's true. I freely admit I know what I know and I know what I don't know.

And I don't know everything about this situation, although I'm going to try to give you every piece of information that I do have. One of the things that's very clear about this is Patrick Kane wants no leaks. He's definitely limited the amount of information and his camp, the people around him have been very tight because that's what the client wants. So the taps, the faucets and the washers are all screwed on tight and sealed. It hasn't been easy. The other factor that I think is a big part of this is that not all of the teams, like, you know, for example, Detroit has cap room, Buffalo has cap room, but many of the other teams in the league don't. And they want it to be kept quiet because, for example,

if you're going to bring in Kane at a number closer to where he wants to be, you might have to do some surgery to your roster. And you can completely understand why those managers would want that to be quiet to avoid the speculation in case they're not the team that gets Kane. Why have the headache or the aggravation if Kane's not going to be there when you know even being linked to his presence makes people say, oh, what are they going to have to do to bring in Patrick Kane? Then you add in some of the obvious dislike of these general managers to have their plans out in the open.

The Minister of Secrecy, Lou Lamorello. The Deputy Minister of Secrecy, Steve Iserman. These guys aren't going to want anyone they're going to know what they're up to whether it's Patrick Kane or a waiver transaction they just don't like it so I think all of that has contributed to the cone of silence around this I mean Detroit there's there's a lot of things about it that make sense. There's his longtime relationship with Alex DeBrinckit. They have the cap room. It's easy and simple travel. Detroit's got a lot of short trips to a lot of places. And to be perfectly honest,

there was one person who said to me, look, if you're worried about the travel in the Western Conference, why would you want to go to Florida when Florida and Tampa Bay have the worst travel in the Eastern Conference? They're, you know, remote outposts compared to a lot of the other places. Now, I don't know that that's what Kane is going to be overly worried about. I've had people suggest it to me, but, you know, I just thought I would mention it because I thought it was interesting that somebody brought that up. So here's the best information I can give you. And again, I'm going to say that it's been a challenge to get it, and I can't guarantee it's 100% right, but I want to give you an idea of what people are saying out there the people I'm sharing this from they're people who have good batting averages generally they are not

baseball players who hit below the Mendoza line and if you don't know what the Mendoza line is that was named after a former major leaguer by the name of Mario Mendoza who I think had a below 200 batting average uh in his major league career I think half of the years he played so they call it the Mendoza line if you hit below 200 these guys are more Tony Gwynn, Ted Williams type. They have good numbers. They make good contact. So one of these people believes it's going to be Detroit. Another one said he thinks that Kane was kind of down to a combination. I said on Saturday night, it was two to three teams. He thinks that's a combination of Detroit, Florida, and I have kind of discounted Dallas, but he has not done that. You know, the issue I have with Dallas is I think Kane would love to play there.

I'm just not sure Dallas thinks it's the best idea for him. I think they feel that if they're going to add, it's going to be on defense. And the other thing that someone pointed out to me is it's an interesting one because Dallas knows what it's like to have players recover from hip surgery. Look, Ben's been through it. Sagan's been through it. And what this individual said to me was

there's probably no team in the league that would have as good an idea on what Kane is capable of doing or not doing than the Stars. So I just wanted to include them. I do think Kane's been very interested in on them. I've just waffled on the idea of Dallas really wants to do this. Now I will also say this, a couple of people have agreed with me that there's there's definitely things we're not seeing there's teams who have been involved in this that we haven't figured out yet and all I'll say is this there are a couple of teams out there who suspect they said look Toronto looked

into it even though it doesn't make sense because it's kind of in tree living's dna to look into things and there's a couple teams out there who suspect that boston might be another team that's poked around on this and again it's all circumstantial evidence but it makes sense because the thing about Boston is, you know, they're a good team. They could win. I don't know if they could do more than one year. I'm not sure that makes any sense for them. But they are the kind of organization that would look at Kane and say, does this help us? Or in a good year, what can we add to make us better?

If you look last year, they went for it. They lost in the first round. They gave up a lot of capital, but it was a go-for-it year for them. And I just think there are teams who suspect that this is a player that won't cost you anything in terms of draft picks or prospects. He's a free agent, and they're good again. And I just thought I would mention it because it does kind of fit with Boston's DNA of we're good. What can we add at what cost? And this makes sense to me. So that's kind of where I think

everybody here is. And once again, I am prepared to be end up on freezing cold takes because I'm not 100 accurate Kane's made this hard but that's the the best information I can give you at this point in time I'm really curious about the Detroit one They have the cap room. They have the space on the roster. They're doing very nicely so far this season. As we look on Sunday night, they're sitting there very much in contention in the Atlantic Division in the Eastern Conference. They have the second best goal differential in their division. They have the third best goal differential in the conference. They have the second best goal differential in their division. They have the third best goal differential in the conference. And there are a lot of people who look at that stat and say, if your goal differential is good, it really says something about who you are. So I definitely think there's a lot of people wondering about Detroit and whether or not he

ends up there. I can't tell you for sure on this monday morning but i definitely think they're a serious team to watch in this uh well let's park it here a little bit and talk about the detroit red wings because you know you compare them to the los angeles kings and they're getting contributions up and down the lineup and if we get a chance later on i wouldn't mind gushing a little bit about trevor mo, who's very quietly turning in an outstanding season for the Kings. But to the Detroit Red Wings, don't look now, but Alex Lyon's been really good for them. Sunday afternoon with the win over

Minnesota, the 4-0 shutout against the New Jersey Devils. JT Comfer has been fantastic. Lucas Raymond has been really good. I know things didn't go, I don't know, how do you say it, swimmingly for the Detroit Red Wings in Sweden,

but since they've come back, I mean, they kind of dusted the Boston Bruins here. And now they've put, you know, another nail in the Minnesota Wildcoffin Sunday afternoon as well.

I mean, if you're auditioning to bring Patrick Kane into the mix right now, since they've come back from Sweden, Detroit's doing a good job. They've played very, I mean, they're a plus 14 team you know that's the thing in their division plus 14 is the second best number only Boston's better at plus 19 in the conference plus 14 is third best only the Rangers and the Bruins are better. If you're a believer that goal differential is a real strong indicator of who you are,

and there are definitely people in the game who believe that very strongly, that says the Red Wings are for real. That they're going in the right direction. They're building something. They're banking points. And, you know, I get it. The one thing I'm going to be curious about when Patrick Kane makes his decision and it might take a while to figure this all out is what were

all the offers here what could teams do was it going to be where some teams going to say look we only want to do one year or some teams willing to say look we'll do the rest of the year and then nudge nudge wink wink we'll see we'll see or was where other teams gonna say yeah we're we're definitely willing to do multiple years whatever you think so I mean I'm gonna be curious about this but the Red Wings are one of the teams and you know the sabers are another team they have the opportunity to do term and and make it work and not everybody had the ability to do that uh you want to circle back and talk a little about alex lion who was as we all know fantastic for the panthers last season and has looked tremendous in the games that he's played this

season here's my question that i have for you about alex lion who's looked tremendous in the games that he's played this season here's my question that i have for you about alex lion who's been excellent in the last couple of games for the detroit red wings when he's played is he this year's charlie lingren the goaltender that you know everyone looked at and said okay that's a good signing but turns out to be a great one for the team what why would you pick someone else and not this year's Alex Lyon? Alex Lyon is this year's Alex Lyon. How soon you forget what he did last season. You know, Sergei Bobrovsky had the great playoff run for the Panthers, but in the games of mortal significance for them last year,

who won them games to get them into the playoffs? Alex Lyon. And not only did he win games, but in the playoffs, he was giving creepy stares at the camera that were freaking me out on a nightly basis. But, you know, I thought Lyon was one of the underrated good signings this offseason. Two times 900K in Detroit.

I thought that was a great pickup. Then they go out and get Reimer, and Lyon has to sit the first 15 games of the season. Now he gets an opportunity. He's won three in a row. He's helping right the ship, as you said, Jeff. He's a pro. He's an absolute pro. And if I was one of these teams that was looking for goaltending, I would be looking at Lyon right now. Now, you might not be able to get him. Iserman's probably saying, no way, I need him.

I need him. But I have mad respect for anyone who can sit the first 15 games of the season and come in hot like this. You have every excuse to fail in those situations. And Alex Lyons, like, big deal. I got this. One thing we should mention with the Red Wings as well, coming off of Sunday's win against the Wild, David Perron. I know you like him.

Yeah, I'm a big David Perron guy. Goals number 299 and 300. One of the best one-timers in the game. Smart, smart, high IQ guy. Yep, love David Perron. Now, at the other end of the rink on Sunday afternoon, the Minnesota Wild. 05-2 in their last seven.

Losers of 13 of their last 16. And about all of this, who said, it's effing unacceptable, guys should be pissed off? Dean Everson. Who said that from Minnesota? No. That sounds like a Dean Everson thing to say. Mike Russo?

Well, I'm sure. On Twitter? I'm sure Mike Russo might have whispered it once or twice over the streak. Marcus Foligno? No, but good guess. Do you want me to guess the whole roster, or are you just going to tell me? No, you could just give up, and I'll say it's Pat Maroon. Oh, that fits him too.

Yeah, big time. That definitely fits him too. here here becomes the question if it is as pat maroon so eloquently puts it and who said hockey isn't full of poets effing unacceptable uh what does bill garren do about this what can bill garren do about this? Like the thing about Guerin is we've talked before on this podcast about how he's very impulsive. When he's talking about trades, he doesn't necessarily go out there to create a market. He decides what he wants to do. He sees what he wants to get and he kind of goes out and does it. You know, earlier this year when he signed a bunch of players to extensions, he decided he wanted to do that and he goes out and he does it. He's that kind of a guy. Right now, Bill Guerin is trying to be the opposite of that guy.

to be the opposite of that guy. He is trying to be calm. He is trying not to race into any kind of move. He is bending over backwards to be fair to his head coach. He's a big believer in Everson. He gave him an extension and he, in everything he does when it comes to Everson, he recognizes that they're shorthanded because of their salary cap penalties. He's very, very fair about that. Eventually though, you get into the position that Edmonton got in and you say, we can't wait any longer. I will say this we have seen a situation where we thought that was going to happen on Long Island and Lou Lamorello outweighed it and he said nope I'm not doing it and he he's definitely lasted a lot longer without making a move, any kind of move, than we all thought was going to happen. Guerin's in that zone now.

He's in that zone where you expect him to do something. Something. And the Islanders could outweigh it for now. The Oilers could not. How long can he wait? Well, the losses have piled up. And the month is drawing to a close. And now we have players that are speaking publicly.

Yeah, but that's normal. I mean, what else do you expect the players to say? Like, that's... I get that. That's normal. That's normal. You can tell, though, that the players have hit a point,

or at least some of the players have hit a point, have hit a breaking point here. We'll see where this story goes with Minnesota. One more story on Minnesota. And this is bigger than all of them. Marc-Andre Fleury and the Native Heritage Night mask One more story on Minnesota, and this is bigger than all of them. Marc-Andre Fleury and the Native Heritage Night mask that he wore in warm-up before the game against the Colorado Avalanche. Technically, it violates league policy, but there is no fine.

How do you see this entire situation you know obviously um this whole thing has been galaxy brained and there there has to be a way to fix this the way it's set up it isn't working for anyone um so flurry in the wild uh approached the league i believe in september about this and at the time the policy was new and everything being equal they were kind of told look this isn't going to be able to happen in terms of wearing it and then since then travis dermot used the pride tape no, and there shouldn't have been a penalty. There's no way there should have been a penalty, and there wasn't. And then what does Fleury see?

He sees that, and he also sees that Bobrovsky and Grubauer are able to wear their hockey fights cancer masks during games. Now, it's since been explained that they were allowed to wear those masks during games because they've done it before. But to Fleury and a lot of other people, they're going to say like, you know, that's ridiculous. Either you can wear them or you can't so what i think here is it gets closer to the date flurry sees that dermot no punishment grubauer and bobrovsky allowed to wear it why should my mask be any different and it's important to him for two reasons the indigenous message in honor of his wife's family and also there's a quote there from his father that's very meaningful to him. And nobody in the right frame of mind has any

problem with the idea of Fleury wearing this mask. No one. There's no reason for him not to wear it and I don't think there's a single person out there who would have a problem with him wearing it and ultimately at the end of the day he wore it no fine no penalty to him or the organization which I think is what like anyone who doesn't think that's the right thing I don't care about their opinion in the first place so I was having a conversation with someone who works for another league and, you know, we were talking about this and, you know, one of the things I think that has to happen is there's a player inclusion committee and there's a lot of players on this committee, some of whom are NHLers, some of whom no longer are, some of whom are women's players. some of whom no longer are, some of whom are women's players. You know, there's a whole cross section of people there who want to be involved and want to do things that will benefit the sport. And for example, there are some indigenous players on this committee.

And I can't imagine as that story blew up on Friday, it was really easy for them. You're probably sitting there and saying, wait, like, I don't want to be a part of this if I'm going to be included in something that it looks like I'm blocking this mask from being worn. So that's one thing they have to fix. You can't put the people on the players inclusion committee in a bad spot but you know the thing that uh we were talking about is what he thinks is going on and i suspect he's right i don't want to get too deeply into this this is not the podcast for it but i think it's relevant to mention there's a lot of really difficult things going on in the

world right now. A lot of hard conflict, sad conflict, painful conflict on multiple fronts. And there are people who are worried that there is going to be more. And it affects people of all backgrounds, different cultures. Everybody out there knows what I'm talking about. And what he told me, and he said it's the case in his league, and he bets it's the case in the NHL too, that what they're worried about is not things like Fleury's mask. What they're worried about is that someday someone's going to want to put something on, whether it's a patch or a sticker or something, that is going to be incredibly divisive,

whether it's a flag or a symbol or something like that. And he thinks that that's what all of these leagues are grappling to deal with, because they do think there's going to be a day where something like that is going to happen. And that's what he thinks that is going to happen. And that's what he thinks that this is all about. And, you know, I thought that was an interesting perspective. I still think the NHL has to find a better way to handle this. Because even if that is the reason, things like Pride Tape and the Fleury mask in this case shouldn't be punished for that or shouldn't be removed for that or prevented from being worn for that but the more I thought about

what he said to me the more I wonder if the issue is not what we've seen, but if they're worried about what we could see. I don't have a great answer, but it did pop into my head. It doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a better job of clearing things like pride tape and this flurry mask, but he does believe that that's potentially what we're talking about here well the um and i'm sure the league has talked about this as i'm sure other people have talked about this as i'm sure you've talked about this as well what the nhl now has set up though elliott and this is where i think you're right they need to come up with a solution for

this when we get there and make no mistake about it, we will get there in this sport. Right now, the way that it's been set up and the way that it's been established is there's no consequence. Because if you were something, like listen,

we're heading to a very emotional election stateside. And who knows what people are going to say. I think that's a very fair point too. And who knows what a goal he's going to want to put on his back plate or a player's going to want to wear on his gloves or whatever it is or on his skates. Right now, the way it's set up, that will be consequence-free. That's why I'm with you.

I think the NHL, this problem is not over, and this is not a solution. The election's a fair one, too. That's going to be a hotly contested emotional election. Okay, on that, we'll take our first break. When we come back, more news from around the NHL and also the Montana's Thought Line, back in a couple of moments on 32 Thoughts.

Listen to the 32 Thoughts podcast, ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. All right, time now, Elliot, and welcome back to the podcast for a segment that's really grown on me. Like, I like this more and more every week. It's been a lot of fun, mainly because the questions, not necessarily the answers, have been excellent.

It's the Montana's Thought Line, Montana's barbecue and bar, Canada's home for barbecue, Elliot. Try the ribs. 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca is the email. Again, 32 thoughts at sportsnet.ca. That is the number 32, by the way. And 1-833-311-3232. Say it slower, dummy.

1-833-311-3232 is the phone line. Nick in Vancouver. Hi, guys. I was watching Canucks versus Avs on Wednesday. Ellie, you know how much I enjoy it when people pull examples out of actual games. Chef's kiss. The commentator mentioned he thought Colorado's offensive rush was offside, but it wasn't called.

The Avs player came down the wing and snapped the shot, which Demko froze. This, of course, resulted in an offensive zone face-off for Colorado. This got me thinking. In the right situation could the Canucks or any given team challenge for offside despite no goal being scored to avoid having to take a defensive zone face-off? I'm thinking a team would only do this if the offside non-call was extremely obvious and they were defending a one goal lead late in the game. respect the question the answer is no you can only challenge a goal thankfully let's not imagine if they were just challenging regular offsides all right it's 3 46 in the morning it's we've got five minutes left in regulation thanks everyone for staying up

all the dark circles under your eyes for work tomorrow i love the creativity but the answer is no right by the way i gotta talk to you about something before we get back to the thought line oh no you know what is the worst thing to happen in the nhl this year oh there's a that covers a lot of ground but what do you want to drill down on? All these officials saying we've got a goal. This is going to go right to your head. And what makes it second worst is all the people tweeting at you to blow up your ego. I am convinced that this is a work by the officials hearing you whine about it no just because people say you've got a powerful voice in hockey you can fix things no we can't yeah we can fix things like referees

saying good goal instead of goal but we can't fix anything important i don't want to say that it's gone to my head but uh at the house here, we've widened the door frames, so my head will fit in now, Elliot. That's right. Like, I can fix nothing with the soup, but everything about the pepper and the parsley. How about that? Nothing about the actual soup itself.

But if this, put it this way, if this podcast had anything to do with more and more officials dropping the grammatically incorrect call of good goal and just calling it what it should be, rightfully, goal, then I am happy. And I can say part of our work here is done, Elliot. We've made hockey a better place because of it. And you can take some delight in that. I think that's debatable, but okay. Tiffany in Madison, Wisconsin. And thank you to all officials who are calling it correctly.

Thanks to everybody who tweets it at me because I turn around and send all those tweets right to Elliott Friedman's phone. I would like to complain to all the people who send those tweets because it makes Merrick even more impossible to deal with the word is insufferable but we shall carry on tiffany in madison wisconsin hello jelly dom it's sticking elliot it's catching on first time long time i'll keep my question brief uh for

the newly initiated jelly dom as a combination of all three of our names jeff elliot dom minnick i'll keep my question brief. I was watching the San Jose-Vancouver game and noticed that after Philip Hronik scored, they zoomed in on him sitting on the bench. Besides his luxurious beard, I noticed that he didn't have any tape on his stick. Having done some research,

I found Restek, or Alternative Stick Grip Company, if you can't say the company on the pod. Well, we just did, ResTech. Here's my question. What kind of stick grip material is allowed on players' sticks? Obviously, as we saw earlier in the season, players can use whatever color tape they want, but are there rules about what kinds of stick grip technology

they are allowed to utilize? P.S., can you shout out the Badgers women's hockey team? They are rock stars. I will always shout out the Wisconsin Badgers specifically this year. Third in the country. Elliot and Layla Edwards

is a star there. And as you know, she became the first black player to suit up for the senior women's national hockey team. So go Badgers. Go Layla Edwards.

Good shot. Yeah. And you know what you can use uh anything that the nhl allows and that counts for the american hockey league as well like players can't use something that is not allowed by the national hockey league that's just that's that's standard yeah anything approved you can use it although they are making the one the other thing they're doing right now is especially when it comes to neck protection they're rushing to approve things that previously were not approved so they are really working to try to make a difference on some of this i know the american hockey league was maybe concerned is too strong a word, but the American Hockey League, to the point about getting neck guards on players quickly, one of their issues was the players weren't allowed to use anything that wasn't approved by the National Hockey League.

But I think everybody around hockey just wanted to get as many neck guards on players as soon as possible. Okay. Voicemail time. Ryan in your old haunt, Elliot, London. Hi there, this is Ryan Maiden from London, Ontario. Just calling, I'm a huge fan of the show. Elliot, Jeff, and Dirty Dom,

that's a wrestling term there. Oh, Dirty Dom. Two questions. First one, Elliot, did you ever try the flying tomato when you were at school in London? Number two, you guys frequently talk about the over 35 deal. I've never heard this before. Can you please explain it to me and maybe a few others like we are five?

That's pretty much it. Thanks a lot, guys. Enjoy the show and keep up the good work. Thanks a lot. Awesome. Thanks, Ryan. What's the flying tomato? Well, first of all, Dom, how do you feel about Dirty Dom? I'll take it. Rolls off the tongue. Oh, okay. All right. Alliteration for the win. The flying tomato is a pizza store. If I have it right to what he's referring to, it's a pizza place in London. And I don't think it was there when I was there. Like, I don't, I've heard of it now.

Like, students have told me about it or people have told me about it. But I don't know that it was in London when I was there. I don't remember ever trying it. From the way Ryan was talking about it, it sounded like I really missed out. But I don't remember ever trying it there, unfortunately. Okay, so over 35, when the NHL went to the salary cap, one of the things they did to penalize teams for signing players to contracts later in their careers were that if you signed a contract to a player who was

35 years old or older and that was the first year of the deal not you know not for example if you sign someone to a five-year contract when they were 33 years old that didn't matter if the first year of their deal began after they were 35 you couldn't take it off your cap so if the player retired or uh whatever happened you were stuck with that contract on your cap. Or the player got injured and couldn't play again, too. That was the same deal. You were stuck and couldn't get rid of it off your cap. One of the most unique early cases was Chris Pronger.

Pronger. And Chris Pronger was 34 years old when he signed his seven-year extension in Philadelphia, but it didn't take effect because he signed it with a year to go in his original contract. It didn't take effect until 2010-11 when he'd already turned 35. So even though he signed that contract a year early, the NHL considered it an over 35 deal. And eventually he had to be traded to Arizona after unfortunately he had to end his career prematurely. So that's why they created this rule. They didn't want long-term contracts for older players, even Hall of Famers like Pronger. They wanted to punish teams who would make risky long-term bets with an older player. Now, since then, in one of the more recent CBAs, there was an adjustment to it. So there are ways you can structure an over 35 contract that don't penalize you in the same way. Basically, as long as you don't incredibly front load it, you can escape that kind of punishment.

But that's what an over 35 contract is. It is a contract that punishes teams for giving term deals to older players. Excellent question. And thanks, Ryan, for that. We'll investigate the flying tomato, by the way. Okay, here is one from Vancouver. This is Dylan.

This is an interesting one. Hey, guys, I was watching the Vancouver-Seattle and noticed the linesman helping Brandon Tanev off to the bench after a hit. So that was a neutral zone hit. Brandon Tanev got caught by Nils Hoaglander. He was obviously in a great deal of pain and needed assistance, but got me thinking, is there any rule that prohibits referees from helping players from either team during the play that could give that player's team an advantage i look forward to hearing your thoughts and of course this one's for you elliot trying those ribs uh the official in question by the way is ryan gibbons on that one elliot dylan young dylan we don't know that

i'm just gonna call him young dylan you're right i don't know that but you know me we don't know that i'm just gonna call him young dylan okay you're right i don't know that but you know me i don't mind being factually inaccurate so i'm gonna call him young dylan listen compared to you and me everyone's young young dylan i cannot believe are you are the type of person who would give a lump of coal to someone for Christmas, are you honestly complaining that the linesman was trying to help the player get to the bench? To me, it's like, I thought there was a great situation in the league this week where Dennis Gilbert got into a fight and the linesman caught him as he was going towards the ground.

Yes. That is one situation I think that the nhl is about as afraid of as any is a player going down hard on their head in a fight and i understand what you're saying dylan heartless dylan heartless young dylan i understand what you're saying that technically that's an advantage but i always believe we should err on the side of safety with players who are injured in the field of play and just like uh catching dennis gilbert on the way down helping tannev off the ice to me it's just the right thing to do yeah i mean otherwise if tannev was in that type of distress there would have been

a whistle so here's the question that you ask yourself would you rather have Ryan Gibbons help him off the ice or a whistle at that moment to me that's when sort of common sense should take over and you realize that hockey is a shade of gray and not black or white and you say to yourself yeah you know what Gibbons made the right call there the play continued and he helped brandon tannev who was in some distress after that collision with with nils hoglander um but good call young heartless dylan from heartless young heartless coal giving oh dylan dylan tough crowd man oh tough crowd, man. Ooh, tough crowd, man. You give the Vancouver Canucks a couple of wins and this is what happens to their fans. Heartless.

You give them a good start to the season, man. They just want to harp on everybody. Okay. We'll finish up here with a voicemail. This is anonymous. Hey guys. Uh, just listening to the pod here on a grueling Friday afternoon at work. And just listen to the part where you guys are talking about

the Jersey Tuck rule and that got me wondering about other weird equipment rules. I know Chara has his exemption for his stick height because he is a mammoth of a man and that got me wondering

has there ever been any other nhl players that got exemptions for what just happened there what was that that's the end of the voicemail so wait so let me so let me get this straight this anonymous caller who someone is going to recognize. I think he's a dispatcher. This is the greatest voice message ever. So this anonymous caller who basically joked that nothing was happening in his work cut off his call when something actually happened at work. That's fantastic.

Potentially important too. Who knows what he does for a living that that's awesome it's a friday afternoon he's probably got an important job but he's listening to the podcast and thinking about zidane ochara's stick i'm trying to think of you know what it reminds you of it reminds me of the gif of the dog sitting in fire like this is fine like i'm imagining this guy sitting around a five-alarm blaze listening to the podcast and saying, everything is great. There's only two, Elliot, that I can think of. One is, you remember Jim Kite?

So Jim Kite was the first legally deaf player in the NHL, big defenseman, Winnipeg Jets. And he was allowed to wear hearing aids while he played. And the other, I mean, this is going in the way, way, way, way, way back machine to the 1940s. And that's net minder Bill Dernan, who only played like eight or nine seasons

in the NHL. But the interesting thing about him was he was ambidextrous. And so he had, he had fashioned essentially two catchers and he wore one on each hand, but they were fashioned so that he could switch his stick back and forth depending on which side the rush was coming at him. So he'd always have his glove exposed to the big part of the net.

So that's what shooters would look at. Like that. Those are the only two things that spring to mind right away i'm sure if i i don't know did like some proper research uh i have another one i actually have another one i thought of what do you got i was thinking about it while you were talking i actually thought you were going to say it dan blackburn oh the two okay you know what one day i want to have a conversation with you about Dan Blackburn's two blockers. Yes. You know why?

So just to explain it first, he had a surgery on his glove hand, which was his left hand. And as a result, he couldn't rotate it. So he was allowed and given the opportunity to wear two blockers and and dan blackburn was a real big prospect you know he was a 10th overall draft pick in 2001 he was he was for real but because of that surgery he couldn't wear a glove and the nhl allowed him to play with two blockers now unfortunately it just it didn't work to the level it was necessary, but that was a situation where he was given an equipment exemption. Elliot, we cannot have this conversation without mentioning the pontoon boats,

which were the shin pads owned by and worn by Craig Ludwig. Well, first of all, I don't know that there was a specific rule exception that he had as opposed to him just saying, I'm going to dare anyone to stop me from doing any of this. So I guess it was the 99 Stanley cup final when they beat Buffalo and won the cup. But he was like, people were doing a ton of stories on it and he was gleefully pulling them out

of his stall and showing them to reporters or television cameras remember years later i was still the score at the time but years later i remember people talking about you know what do we have to do to improve offense in the nhl and more scoring and someone said to me it would help if all of you guys stop glorifying things like craig ledwig's shin pads should we be encouraging players to have phone books on their legs to help them block shots and I thought that was pretty funny but I don't know if that was a specific exemption or Ludwig was just like it's better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission. It's like a second goalie out there. People love it when I annoy you with ideas.

So here we go again. As a way to increase scoring and stop whistles, how would you feel if all netminders had to play with two phone books? I am against that. You cannot, can you not make the argument that catching a puck is the lay of game? Just go down the street with me a little bit. Let's go for a walk,

Ellie. Let's go for a walk. What if I don't want to go for this particular walk? Let's go for a little walk. Let's go for a little stroll. if I don't want to go for this particular walk? Come on, let's go for a little walk. Let's go for a little stroll, you and me. Talk about blockers. I have a headache. Keep the play hot.

Okay, thanks for all the hot, tasty emails and voicemails. The Montana's Thought Line, Montana's Barbecue and Bar, Canada's Home for Barbecue. We'll step away, albeit briefly, when we return a situation with the Columbus Blue Jackets where a player wants to go back home. Also, Elliot wants to talk about, checks notes, CM Punk? That's next. Okay, Elliot, a few things to finish up the podcast with today. And we all hope that everyone has an enjoyable week on the horizon here

and gets to watch some really good hockey. Colorado's playing Tampa tonight, by the way. That should be a doozy. Meanwhile, quick thought. Listen, the Rangers are hot, top team. They're playing tremendous hockey. Jacob Truba has always been a flashpoint for either this team or the Winnipeg Jets

or the University of Michigan Wolverines. You know, this goes back. This is Jacob Truba. $5,000 fine for hitting Trent Frederick in the head with his hockey stick. There are a lot of howls out there for this being too soft of a punishment, too weak of a punishment to which you say what? I have to say I never thought I would see the day where Larry Brooks and the Department of Player Safety were on the same side of an argument.

I was looking for the four horsemen to come over the apocalypse as I saw his tweet during the day. I thought it should have been at least a game. Like, at least a game. I thought he should have gotten a suspension for that. Look, I know there's another angle that shows Trent Frederick grabbing Trouba's stick, but you have to be responsible on some level. There are penalties in NHL games for being reckless with your stick.

And he was reckless, and I thought he should have gotten at least a game. I think you have to send a message that that's not okay because a lot of things can go wrong with that so i i was surprised i was shocked actually i thought there should have been at least a suspension there to send the message you i looked at it and said this is either going to be a fine or a 10-game suspension. Because if you thought it was not deliberate, it's going to be a fine. If it was accidental, I understand being in control of your stick.

I know you're going to go with that argument. But if it was deemed that it was deliberate, then there's no way it's going to be a 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5-game suspension. That's going to be like a 10 or 15. So I looked at it. It all depends on whether you thought it was accidental and they were mitigating circumstances most notably trent frederick grabbing his stick and that's the way ultimately it was ruled again i thought it was going to be one extreme or the other it was either going to be a major suspension or a fine that's again i can understand where you're coming from on this one i can i think you can send a message and say look it was more reckless than

intentional but sometimes you get penalized in this game for being reckless and i think there are times you have to send a message okay i want everyone to know that this is not going to be happening elliot like i always tell you i'd agree with you if you were right jeff the funniest text message i got about that true define no suspension somebody said to me does jeremy jacobs no longer have any influence in the nhl because when someone saw it was Boston, they were like, for sure, that's getting punished. Maybe the NHL just really likes the New York Rangers now. All right, Columbus.

Like, there are a lot of things that Columbus has done that they're responsible for. This doesn't fall into that category. The Dmitry Voronkov situation is homesick, would like to go back to russia um it sounds like the blue jackets organization is doing a lot to accommodate him and surround him with people so he's just to be blunt not so lonely or doesn't feel like he's out there on an island um first of all you think you care for the person second of all you care for the player and

he's been a really good addition to this team this season. Big, strong. He's playing on a good line with Adam Fantilli and Patrick Laine right now. Your thoughts on the Voronkov situation in Columbus? It's a tough thing because he looks like a really talented player who can help you. And, you know, you watch him play and you say oh okay like here's a player who's making a really nice adjustment to North America it's his first time playing here he's

been in Russia until now and everything must be going swimmingly and it sometimes it's a reminder that just because of something that looks good on the ice, not everything is a perfect picture off the ice. And on a level here, I really feel for the Blue Jackets because they're going through a tough time, and he's been one of their really good stories. And as you said, this one is not their fault. You know, this is a player who is having, obviously, a challenging time adapting socially to North America or missing his life back home. And I saw where Jarmo Kekulainen told Aaron Portsline that they're going to try to involve Fedder Tutten, who is a guy who really loved his time in Columbus to help him out here and see if

that can bridge the gap. But it's a challenge. And it's a week where we saw Samuel Girard say he's going into the player assistance program because of his challenges with anxiety which I think a lot of people understand have gotten him into a position where he needs to go into the program I think everybody empathizes with that and so it's just it's it's a really tough thing for the Blue Jackets because here's a player like one of the things everybody's been talking about is their young players have really been the salvation and what's been a really tough situation a season and this is one of the guys and now you find out oh he's not sure that he's gonna last because he's just not comfortable for whatever reason it's a tough one for columbus i don't think there's an easy answer there because i think on a level we all understand just plop us all into a different situation some of us are going to find a way to handle it and some of us aren't one quick note

from your update on Saturday on headlines on hockey night in Canada I found this interesting that Jack Campbell has brought Manny Legacy goalieie coach, former NHL goaltender, to work with him in Bakersfield. Now, Campbell bought a place at Port Huron, Michigan, and they started working together in the summer. So on one hand, it should probably be no surprise, but I just thought that that was an intriguing note. Can you share that one with the listeners?

Yes. So Manny Legacy and Campbell worked together really well in the off season. As you mentioned, it was the first time they worked together. And one of the reasons I really thought the Oilers were going to be okay is that Campbell had a dynamite preseason. I was actually at one of the games in Calgary where it was the Flames with a lot of their NHL roster against the Oilers with a lot of what was definitely not their NHL roster. And Campbell beat them. He was fantastic. And I looked at that and I said, well, whatever he's been working on, it looks good.

And obviously we found out you know it wasn't but I think what Campbell said here was can I bring him here to maybe rediscover some of my mojo from the summer maybe that will help and the Oilers approved it knowing that they need Campbell to get back to a level. I mean, Campbell finding his game again is going to be a lot better option for Edmonton than paying, like, say, a first-round pick to trade him or eating $10 million and buying him out in the offseason. Like, there's no question the better option is can we find a way to fix him.

And I thought it was interesting that he called for legacy and the team had no issue with it. At this point in time, whatever benefits Campbell is good business for the Edmonton Oilers. Just so our listeners understand why that's significant, I mean, the Bakersfield Condors do have a goalie coach, Sylvain Rodrigue. His son is a prospect, Olivier Rodrigue, for the Oilers as well. And in a situation like that, Elliot, I think a lot of teams might say that's a little too awkward for us. But to your point, whatever's going to help Jack Campbell, you do, correct?

Yes. A thousand percent. Yes. Elliot, before we get to help Jack Campbell, you do, correct? Yes, a thousand percent. Yes. Elliot, before we get to our final note, just is there anything new with the Corey Perry situation and the Chicago Blackhawks? Not so much on Sunday, Jeff. The one thing I've been trying to figure out is, you know, just watch the process here. How is everything going to, is it simply a matter of uh you know perry um being at home and he'll return and the black or you know ultimately whose decision is it when the time comes that perry wants to return or the blackhawks bring him back you know the one thing i just say is that there were a lot of

people who felt that the two statements the the one from Kyle Davidson's media conference and the one from Pat Morris that was released to a few members of the media were contradictory. I don't believe that. I just think that because the two things don't exactly say the same, it doesn't mean that one's true and one's not you know the Blackhawks said it was an organizational decision and the statement from Pat Morris says he's away with his family so they don't necessarily disagree with each other but we've got to wait to see how this

plays out I know people want more information particularly where the Blackhawks are concerned. And I have no doubt, no doubt that the Blackhawks are sensitive and recognize that perception. But sometimes when it's a personnel matter or a personal matter with a player or an employee, you have to let things play out a certain way i was talking to an hr lawyer friend of mine about this and you know he's a big hockey fan so he's aware of the situation and he was just saying that you know even the blackhawks everybody wants answers from them there still is a process that you have to play out. And I know that's not going to satisfy everybody, but he told me that's the way it often works.

I'll echo what you said on Saturday as well. In this situation, I slash we, I'll just help that everybody involved here is okay. All right. So was it late Saturday night or early sunday morning it was late saturday night so i so i want to take ownership of this next segment jeff okay you you go for it so what people may remember a few years ago is that when the nhl player media tour was in chicago i learned that jeff has a friendship with cm punk and i used to be a huge wrestling fan i'm not so much anymore but you know i i i was really i was really impressed

by him he sat there quietly as we did all of the interviews and then he did an interview with Jeff and I, and you know, he is a, like whatever it is, he has it. Can you pause for one second? Do you remember what he did? He came in the first day just to watch what we were doing and stayed with us the whole day. And they did his interview the next day. Yes. That's a problem. Yes. Yeah. You know, I, I was really, first of all, I couldn't believe that somebody would actually want to sit there And watch this Now we were talking to a couple of his favorite hockey players But still, I couldn't believe anybody wanted to sit there and watch this

And he was But I was really impressed by him And I started to watch some of his clips and some of the stuff he did. And whatever it is, he's got it. And obviously, he's a huge presence one way or the other, like him or hate him. He is an enormous presence. And there were some times that, you know, I know you and him kept in touch. And I'll ask you about that in a second.

There were a couple of times I kept in touch with him through DMs. For example, when we broke the story that Chicago had put Duncan Keith on the market and that maybe he was going to be traded, he reached out to me to ask for more information. And the day that he was traded to Edmonton, before I even reported it on Twitter, I actually sent him a note saying, you know, I think it's going to happen today because I knew he really cared. But you and him have kept a really steady stream of conversation going, right? He's a fascinating guy. First of all, we have a lot of mutual interests like you and him. I mean, we basically, more than anything else, we text about the Chicago Blackhawks.

Like it's a lot of cocky texts. Like recently there's been a lot of, you know, Conor Bedard, obviously going back to the draft and the lottery last year. There was the Jonathan Taves situation. Will he, won't he, is he, isn't he, et cetera. Whenever we talk about wrestling though it usually revolves around it's funny it revolves around wrestling stories and it revolves around two people who we both really like one is harley race and the other is a japanese legend by the name of mitsuhara misawa um so we're both huge fans so a lot of our conversations tend to revolve around

those two and he knows that i don't have a lot of time to follow the current product i just don't like it i mean you know what it's like elliot you got a lot going on we can barely get this podcast done you watch so like there's just so much you have to follow like put it this way i went to see tool last week and i felt completely naked on the radio show the next day because I hadn't watched all the games. And I just hate that feeling. I don't like that feeling of not being prepared or not having seen at least part of everything the night before. But nonetheless, it's Tool and I got to meet a couple of guys in the band. So once in a lifetime opportunity every now and then you got to do it. every now and then you got to do it um but after last night you know and and you texted me last night essentially saying we're talking about this tomorrow um i you know watched all the clips on social and saw how it went down and i got notes from people like what the f holy f like when a wrestling angle pops like you could really feel it Like I can only imagine how deafening a sound that was yesterday.

Like the only thing that I can kind of relate it to was when, and again, this was in Chicago as well, I believe, when Chris Jericho left WCW and went to WWE and made his debut on Raw. Remember they did that big countdown clock? Yes. Y2J. Yeah, and Jericho appeared, and it was like the most deafening pop you've ever heard. And that covers off like Hogan slamming Andre and various Austin matches or The Rock, et cetera.

That pop was legendary, and people still talk about it to this day. And people were equating what happened saturday night with cm punk to that type of pop and all he had to do was come out because the backstory to all of this was so good but what got you to to notice this because like right away like the text came in we're talking about this well what got me to notice it was everybody was talking about it right yeah and the one thing that i could was i was curious about with you was so like i don't know the behind the scenes stuff but i know seth rollins is and i know who

uh drew mcintyre is and yeah i know who Rhea Ripley is right and so there were videos of Seth Rollins visibly angry and there was a report that Drew McIntyre stormed out of the arena and apparently there were videos of Rhea Ripley giving him the finger

so what I always assume that all this stuff is a work right I assume it's it's good instinct because you know it's wrestling and they're good at it but i was wondering it because i know how polarizing he is and i know there are some people who legitimately don't like him so i was wondering according to you was this stuff a work or was it real yes yes yes we just said yes to both things you can't say yes to both no i'm just work or real i'm just no this was a total work this was this was a total work now was there some legitimate you know heat between phil sorry his

real name is phil brooks between phil and and people in the company stretching back years yeah did he spend a long time ripping the company? Yeah, which all plays into the storyline here. But everybody in the industry always, and I think this is the right perspective to have, always assumes work with anything. And there was only, here, I'll share something with you, Elliot.

There was only one time that I found it really, really tasteless. But this gives you sort of a peek into how people think in the industry. The night that Owen Hart died, which would have been 1999 at Kemper Arena in Kansas City, I was on the air doing the live audio wrestling show and we had all watched the pay-per-view. And so I start calling people to come on the show to talk about Owen. And I called Terry Funk and Terry said he wouldn't be able to come on because he was too mad at Vince McMahon and he was going to if he came on he was going to say

something that he was going to regret I got a number of people that knew Owen from the Stampede days some of which were working for WWE at that time most notably notably Chris Benoit. But there was one person, I think I've told the story before. If I haven't, then this is the first. I just found it really tasteless. I remember I called Wayne Farris. And Wayne Farris... Oh, you had Wayne Farris' number?

Honky Tonk Man. Yeah. So I called him and I was like, did you just watch what happened? And he said, I'm not going to come on because I'm not going to be part of it. I said, what are you talking about? He goes, it's a work. Stop it.

I'm not going to come on and be part of the storyline. You're getting work. Don't do it. I'm like, no. Owen's dead. He's passed away. He couldn't believe that that wasn't a work. That's how ingrained everybody has it in wrestling,

that whatever you see isn't quote-unquote real yeah everything is a storyline um but no this is all it gets a great storyline and i think when wrestling's at its best you have that i'm not sure about it i think you know i i think that you know the uh sean michaels bret hart feud had that element to it i think that historically vince mcmahon has always liked his wrestlers to believe other things about opponents they have in programs in order to get more realistic matches you know i've heard plenty of stories about vince saying one thing to a wrestler about something that his opponent said to him etc just to get the ire up um that's sort of industry standard uh for how vince mcmahon would behave with a lot of his programs but this was

this was a work it was just a great one like it really was and it's it's interesting too so i knew that you wanted to talk about it so i so i texted phil and i said hey phil heads up elliot wants to talk about this on the podcast and he said you know what just say i'm the greatest and the nicest and everyone loves me um and went on to talk about how he's inspired a generation of wrestlers, which is true. And like, look, he's a guy. And you can tell, like, right away, the minute he came out, like, not only has he inspired a generation of performers, but also this guy is far from done. He's got a lot to give.

And the thing about CM Punk is he's real smart. And he knows the history of wrestling. And he knows knows what works and he knows what doesn't work and I think that like quite honestly he's already laid like an impressive like a really really impressive body of work before us but just given the nature of how all of this went down and all the promotion that's going to go on behind it this might end up being his masterpiece this really might because look is that him saying that or are you saying that i think it's i think it's gonna i think it's gonna happen i really do i think that this could be the greatest angle he's ever been involved in like it's shaping up already like everyone's already talking like this is going to headline wrestlemania for one like don't you think that listen you

texted me about it to talk about it on our hockey podcast yeah that's true like wrestling does its best when it reaches outside of wrestling and it sounds like this one has but you know what one thing i do want to mention um whenever there's a situation where someone is involved in a in a sport and they go too aggressively promoting themselves or their team one of the criticisms one of the pejoratives that we always hear or is treated like a pejorative is oh that's so pro wrestling to which i always say sports can learn a lot from pro wrestling oh i'm not it's a show i'm not arguing with you there from a marketing point of view uh like i remember being octagon side at ufc 40 this was a promotion we were doing with viewers choice pay-per-view and this was the one where they the ufc 40 this was a promotion we were doing with viewers choice pay-per-view

and this was the one where they the ufc really went for a pro wrestling style presentation which they still have to this day it wasn't just two guys in the octagon fighting and we're treating it like it's an amateur sport this is we're giving this some pageantry here and it was like it was two great talkers on top titoito Ortiz and Ken Shamrock, and they were fantastic. And Shamrock has a long, as we all know, pro wrestling background, so he was a perfect guy for it. But just the way that the event was presented

and how they encouraged their athletes to antagonize one another. Like, what was it, last podcast or two podcasts ago, you referenced Igor Shcherkin saying to the New Jersey Devils, yeah, but did they win the Stanley Cup? Like even little things like that can go a long way. And that's ripped right out of the pages of pro wrestling promos. Whether it's John Cena or Gorgeous George or Freddie Blassie or Steve Austin, it doesn't matter.

It all leads to a really, really good place for your sport. If you can rip a couple of pages out of pro wrestling. Agree, disagree. Agree. All right. That's me pontificating. That was better than anything you've ever said on this podcast about hockey. Let's go back and do wrestling podcasts.

I don't know if they'll ever have me back, but who knows? Stranger things have happened. Phil Brooks went back to WWE. So maybe there is a place for me in wrestling one day somewhere down the road. That's it for our wrestling

slash hockey podcast for the week. On behalf of Elliot and Dom, Merrick signing off here. Hope you have an enjoyable week with your favorite sport. That is hockey. We are back here Friday morning for another edition of 32 thoughts. Enjoy.