32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Will Elvis Leave the Building?

Episode Date: January 12, 2024

Jeff and Elliotte begin the show with an update on Elvis Merzlikins' status in Columbus. Elliotte also expands on the status of Corey Perry right now and Elliotte's use of the word "eligible" (7:44). The guys dive deep into the Cutter Gauthier trade between the Flyers and Ducks (13:23) and touch on Trevor Zegras's unfortunate ankle injury (26:57). Next, Jeff and Elliotte remark on how attractive a market Florida has become for NHL players as a viable contender (30:49), get into their main questions surrounding the Winnipeg Jets (36:10), and ponder whether the Vancouver Canucks will push all their chips in this year (41:55). Jeff then asks Elliotte what the four nation best-on-best tournament in 2025 is going to be called (45:41).The guys answer your questions in the Montana’s Thought Line (53:09) and William Nylander's agent, Lewis Gross, joins Jeff and Elliotte for a refreshingly candid interview about the process behind his client's extension in Toronto (1:10:55).Audio Credit: The Jeff Marek ShowEmail the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Montana's Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

oh my hell you know what you know what you just did okay first show business baby this is like no this is this is brian burke putting the sedins together on the draft floor this is showbiz baby come on this is the worst thing you've ever come up with on the podcast welcome once again to 32 thoughts the podcast for this friday morning although elliot i don't know why i give it a time stamp people listen whenever they want nonetheless uh, the GMC Sierra is our presenting sponsor, as always. We thank them for their continued support. Merrick alongside Friedman and Dom Schramatti playing the keyboards in the background. Coming up on today's program, it's going to be a little bit long.

So you're going to spend a little bit of extra time either on the treadmill or going for a walk. Shoveling. Shoveling for a lot of people. If you're in the Toronto area, shoveling. If you're in southwestern Ontario, you will be shoveling. This one's going to be a long one. We had a chance to sit down with Lewis Gross on Thursday. He's the agent for, amongst many NHLers, William Nylander.

So we walked through with Lewis Gross from his perspective how the negotiations went with Nylander and how they all came together. In the meantime, Elliot, and we have our normal Montana's Thought Line as well. Some more juicy questions for you there. But we'll start off by talking about Elvis. And is he about to leave the building? What is happening with Merzlikens in Columbus? Well, he's expected to

speak today Pascal Vincent spoke at length about it on Thursday and he's about to speak today so we'll get to hear his side of what's going on there but I was really interested in what Vincent had to say number one as Merzlikens had not dressed there was a rumor going around that the Blue Jackets had made him their third goalie that he was going to be number three behind Daniel Tarasov who looks like he's got a real bright future and Spencer Martin who's done a nice job for them since they they got him from the Canucks. But the Blue Jackets disputed that. They said that it's not that he's a guaranteed number three. They disputed that.

And Pascal Vincent came out and said, look, we've got to see what we've got here in Tarasov. And on some level, I certainly understand that. But the way this is going, the number one thing I thought of is they don't want this guy to get hurt you know Merzlikin still has time on his contract after this year he's got three more years at almost five and a half million and I wondered if this was a situation where they're either preparing to trade him or they are considering buying him out at the end of the season.

Now, let me stress, this is purely my opinion. Columbus, I don't have any hints from Columbus that this is what they're thinking. But when you look at something like this, it's hard not to draw those kinds of conclusions. Because at worst, you could have him as the backup. The other thing that I thought it was interesting that Vincent said was, I guess he was specifically asked

if this tied into the Washington game where he- Tom Wilson fight? Yes, he got in the skirmish with Tom Wilson that led to the winning goal because there had been a rumor going around that that was at the base of this um you know Merzlikens did an interview on our podcast which I really do believe Jeff is one of the best interviews we've ever done um and so I've always really enjoyed watching him since then I mean like a lot of people in the media you deal with someone you have a good experience you take an interest in that player but I had heard that he's an outgoing guy he's a bold guy

he's definitely a presence in that room there's no question about it but I had heard rumors that it had something to do with the players being upset and the organization being upset at his reaction during that game. But again, it's probably a good thing we didn't do this podcast until after Vincent spoke, because I wouldn't want Pascal Vincent to go all John Tortorella on me. But Pascal Vincent said that was not the case, which, like I said, was interesting because that had been a rumor out there. But the one thing I think is pretty obvious, was not the case which like I said was interesting because that had been a rumor out there but the

one thing I think is is pretty obvious and we'll see where what Merzlikens has to say about this is it definitely appears like it might just be time for the Blue Jackets and Elvis that maybe we get to a point here where everybody starts to look for an alternate home for Elvis. And, you know, a couple years ago, honestly, it would have been shocking. And maybe everybody is better off if this does happen. Everybody there can decide. But I don't think anybody would have believed this could happen a couple of years ago. He was really on the way up.

He's got a really interesting story. He's overcome a lot to get here he was a real long shot in a lot of ways and I think the fact that he's achieved as much as he had is is is of you know great credit to him but you but when you get to this point it's really hard to come back from it not impossible but really hard and I wonder if that's where we're going it looks like that's where we're headed you know the other thing is is I do think some of the teams that have looked at goalies this year is you know what have talked to Columbus about Merzlikens, but the salary is a difficult one to fit. So I'm not surprised nothing happens yet,

but it seems like that's where this is headed. A couple of things on that. I think we should throw the name Jet Greaves into that conversation long-term for the Columbus Blue Jackets. He's going to the AHL All-Star Game. He's played a little bit with Columbus. Made his debut in Toronto last year.

He sure did. Great story that was. And he's had a wonderful season in the American Hockey League. So, you know, Spencer Martin is on the expiring contract. Don't know what's going to happen there. But they do have a really good one coming up in Jet Greaves. And the other thing, Elliot, because we just can't leave it out there without acknowledging it. Kelly McCrimmon, you know what to do.

Okay, you've got me here. What are you talking about? Elvis Vegas Elliot. You know what? You know what? You just did. Come on. Okay, first of all

show business baby this is like no this is this is Brian Burke putting the Sedins together on the draft floor this is showbiz baby come on

this is the worst thing you've ever come up with on the podcast which is really saying something that's not even close to true you know what's gonna happen now you know what you just did

that's not even close to true you know what's gonna happen now Gary Lawless is gonna call me and saying what rumors is merrick making up about vegas gary lawless ain't going to call you he's going to call me and i'm going to have to deal with this i'll get a that was interesting text from gary and then he'll call you and say what the hell is merrick yeah i i'll carve out some time on my friday the Gary Lawless call.

From the mayor of Vegas, the real mayor, Gary Lawless. He's like the state senator. I love him. Okay. We had a couple more things to get to, and we are going to get to Cutter Gauthier. And I had Daniel Breer on the radio show on Thursday. We'll get to that in a couple of seconds. But I want to mention Corey Perry.

And the language around this, I think, needs to be very careful. It's not that Corey Perry's been reinstated because he was never suspended. How would you describe the status of Corey Perry right now? Well, I was a little bit surprised in the aftermath. I was trying to be really careful and I guess not careful enough because there were some people who took real issue with my use of the word eligible. And so I think it's important what you point out there. Look, it's very clear. And I guess that's what happens

when the world is run by lawyers, right? I should have been more careful than I was because everybody parses words. Lawyers and technology make our world better. Yes, yes, they do. But basically what I was trying to say was that there's teams interested in Corey Perry. I don't think that surprises anybody. But I think they were worried you know what would you don't want to sign them if betman or the league is not going to be happy with you signing them and i think perry knew that

like this was a situation where perry and his representatives asked for the meeting with the commissioner they got it um and basically he was given the clear path nobody here is going to stand in your way um you know you're you're nobody's gonna have an issue if you sign with an nhl team now that obviously isn't going to be isn't going to stop teams from doing their due diligence. You know, it's never been clearly reported what's happened in Chicago. I think, as I said before, I think I have a decent idea, but I clearly admit I don't know 100%. So that's, you know, that's part of it. And I think the other thing that happens is in this situation,

the teams aren't only looking at what happened in Chicago, they're checking previous destinations saying, is there anything else here we should be worried about? But the key thing is that Perry was told after he met with the league that nobody here is going to block you privately or publicly from signing with the team. So I think the teams are going through that right now. You know, as for the Perry situation and Chicago, again, I've said this many times, I don't want to minimize it because I don't have the exact details. I don't

want anyone to think that I'm saying it's a bigger or lesser deal than it was. The one thing I do know is that the Players Association feels that this is not something that should result in a termination of a contract based on what we've seen in the past. They have until January 29th to appeal it, and I believe they will. Even if Perry isn't crazy about the idea, he might just want to move on. I believe the Players Association is looking at this very seriously as if we cannot allow this to stand

as a precedent. Can we pause on that for one second just so our listeners are clear about one thing? I think a lot of people would hear what you just said and say to themselves, well, hold on a second. This is Corey Perry. This is his contract. If he doesn't want the appeal or doesn't want the grievance,

how does the NHL Players Association not respect that? That is a great question because I know it worked out that way with, for example, Patrick Berglund, right? Patrick Berglund, the Players Association, wanted to example Patrick Berglund right Patrick Berlin the Players Association wanted to appeal on Berglund's behalf and he said no and they just said and they said okay I just think in this particular case the feeling is they don't want this to stand as the precedent and again we don't know all the details but there is definitely feeling, and I don't know if it's right or wrong, but there is definitely a feeling that whatever happened in this case is not comparable to the other reasons that contracts were terminated. And I think everybody recognizes that the Chicago

Blackhawks, with what they went through with the Kyle Beach situation, they have to make sure, they have to be even more careful than other franchises that they cannot allow any behavior that is off the straight and narrow. And there is definitely a feeling here, and again, reminder, I don't know all the details, there's definitely a feeling here that if this had happened on any other team it might not have led to a contract determined uh might not have led to a contract termination so that's i think what the players association is looking at here and we'll see um how this all plays out but there's there's definitely interest in interest in Perry people are doing their due diligence and you know we'll see where this goes should we assume that it is only playoff teams or

not I would think so that the answer would be yes but again I don't know if this is right or wrong again this is all secondhand in this particular case. But there was someone who said to me they thought there might be one team that's not making the playoffs this year that might have interest in him. But I don't know that for sure. Okay. To a whopper of a story this week. The Philadelphia-Anaheim trade.

Cutter Gauthier goes to the Anaheim Ducks. Jamie drives Dale, and a second go the other way. Now, so Cutter Gauthier spoke in a couple of different places this week. He spoke with Alexis Downey of Light the Lamp, a Ducks podcast, and talked about it being a private matter

as to why he wanted out of Philadelphia. He also gave quotes to Derek Lee from the Sporting Tribune where he talked about he needed to make a decision that was best for his future. Here's the main takeaway quote from the piece. It wasn't one specific reason why I asked for a trade. It was multiple reoccurring issues that I'd seen over the past year and a half, two years of being under the Flyers organization. It kind of hit me all at once thinking I can't move forward with this. Now, Elliot, before you weigh in on this one,

I had Flyers general manager Daniel Breer on the radio show on Thursday and asked him how that now famous Zoom call meeting went with the Flyers and Carter Gauthier. Let's have a listen. Yeah. Yeah, it was a Zoom call. His agent requested a Zoom call. Okay.

We thought that he was going to tell us that he wanted to turn pro, that he was changing his mind because he had told us that he wanted to go back to to college for another year to develop but he had a really good world championship and even ourselves we we thought okay he might be more ready than anybody thought and so we we were ready to to move in that direction you know had a contract ready. And when the Zoom started, we were told that he wanted to... He was changing his mind, but not to turn pro, rather than

he just didn't want to play for the Flyers and requested to be traded. So that's Daniel Brier-Elliott, as we all know, general manager of the Philadelphia Flyers. A couple of other things in that interview we talked about, general manager of the Philadelphia Flyers. A couple of other things in that interview, we talked about a couple of other teams being close to a trade

or engaged with a couple of other teams in a trade for Cutter Gauthier. Talked about, asked him about the timing of the trade and was it coincidental that that was, you know, he pulled the trigger on the deal right after the World Juniors

when Cutter Gauthier's value was at his highest and he said, yes, absolutely, that went into it and also he didn't want it to to linger out there and you know i don't think anaheim did either i think anaheim was worried it would i i don't think anaheim yes wanted drysdale's name to get out either just in case i i very much believe that as well um how do you what have your takeaways been from this? This has been a topsy-turvy week with this story. Well, first of all, the fact that I was happy to hear Briere confirm to you about the Zoom meeting because it means that one thing I reported on this story

at least is correct. So, you know, those are the victories I take. Here's your cookie. Thank you. So, I mean, obviously, it's a huge story. It's a big story. And, you know, before we get to the meat of the situation here, Jeff, just a couple things I'd like to say about what unfolded.

Number one, you know, as a human being, I get to decide where I work. If I don't want to work at Sportsnet anymore it's my decision to quit Sportsnet and go somewhere else and as a result I generally from a philosophical point of view I don't have a problem with what Cutter Gauthier decided just like I didn't have a problem with what Adam Fox did or what Blake Wheeler did or Jimmy Vasey did. You have a choice. The CBA says if you want to sit out four years because of where those guys were drafted from, you have that option.

So I don't have an issue with Gauthier saying I don't want to play there. If you truly don't, that is your choice. I don't want to play there. If you truly don't, that is your choice. I felt he, as I said several times, I felt he owed them a better explanation because I would only judge someone as I judge myself. And I think you should have clearly, Philadelphia shouldn't be as surprised about this as they were.

The other thing too is I just think some of the reaction was way over the top like Kevin Hayes does not deserve the treatment that he got Cutter Gauthier doesn't deserve death threats or anything like that it's it's just insane and as someone who has received death threats on Twitter before I generally roll my eyes at it and don't pay any attention to it but I understand how it's unnerving. I think this went too far the other way. And I would bet you, too, that one of the reasons that Philadelphia is so upset about this is because this kid looks like he's going to be a hell of a player, like a really good player.

And I think Philly's disappointed that he's not going to begin his career as a flyer because he could really help them you know is as Cutter Gauthier said it was not one thing but the one thing I really do believe is what I have reported this week is that it all went sour and I mean really sour after his season ended last year if you go back to last March Chuck Fletcher is fired on March the 10th Cutter Gauthier's season ends on March the 11th when they lose in the Hockey East quarterfinals and sometime after that there's a meeting I don't know if it was a zoom call or they met in person it just went really sideways there and I really do believe that Cutter Gauthier I don't know if he was promised anything I don't know the answer to that um but I um but I think he was under the impression he was going to the Flyers and you'll remember how chaotic the end of last year was and I think the

Flyers really believed that bringing him in there in that crazy situation where the room was not united and everything that was going on they really thought it was a bad idea. And I don't know if that wasn't communicated well to Gauthier. I don't know if he just was saying, you know what, I thought I was coming here and now I'm not. But you will never convince me that that wasn't either the kindling or the final straw that sent their relationship sideways. And I don't believe the Flyers realized how upset Gauthier was about it until they had that Zoom call after the World Championships.

And I also know this. I know that they were told, the Flyers were, that this predated the hiring of the new regime, which was May 11th. So I think it was right after his season. And when he talks about all the things that kind of happened, I just think that that one incident was the trigger to, okay, I'm not happy with this.

I think he really thought he was going to finish the year there and burn the first year of his contract. And then they started thinking about everything else. And the more I've collected this week, the more I really believe that. I don't even think Philly intended to upset him. I just think it was a complete breakdown in communications. You know, from a philosophical point of view, let me ask you this, because in this situation, we had one team shocked and one player shocked.

To me, this kind of feels like a wash. Gauthier stunned the Philadelphia Flyers with the trade request and saying, I'm not going to play for the Philadelphia Flyers. And Jamie Drysdale, who had always believed, and he's a young defense, 21 years old, he always believed he was part of this rebuild for the Anaheim Ducks and was going to be a key piece of it. He was stunned, shocked, surprised, all of it, that this happened. One is player to team, one is team to player to me it feels like a wash does it to you well like i said i have i have no problem with goche

deciding that he didn't want to play there you know again like jeff like i have that choice in life so why would i say somebody else can't have that choice in life? And so, um, yeah, I, I, I totally get it.

Um, I don't, I don't disagree with you at all. Um, you know, the other teams basically Philly was targeting D you know, if you're a flyer fan, you know what Daniel Breer has said that,

that we're building from the defense out can I add one thing quickly here sure in in that interview I asked Breer did it have to be a defenseman he said the two boxes for us were defense and a center right defense and a center okay so I had heard more D but I'm not gonna call I'm not gonna call Daniel Breer a liar after he was gracious enough to come'm not going to call Daniel Breer a liar after he was gracious enough to come on your show. Like if Daniel Breer hears this, he's going to say, Freeman's calling me a liar.

I'm never talking to Eric again. So what I was kind of going through is I was kind of going through teams and says, who has the young D? Who has the young D? And I'll tell you this, and teams were looking at the, at me as I was reaching out, like this is radioactive. Like we are not talking about this.

Now the one, the two teams I really thought about though, were LA and Colorado. And I was, because LA has good young D, but I had people really push back on the LA idea. Like the flyers who'd done deals with them plenty. Yeah, but somebody said to me,

you're barking up the wrong tree there. The other team that, actually more than one person said that, the other team I really wondered about, and I'll say this, I think Philly did ask about Bo and Byram, and I just think Colorado wasn't going there. And as a matter of fact, I suspect, but I don't know, because nobody would talk to me about this, I suspect that Colorado's answer was,

we're not doing this one for one. Like, it's got to be more than Gauthier for for byron and i don't know that from the avalanche they they shut me down and would not talk about it but just someone else said to me that they thought they really believed that something like that occurred and if i was philly and i was going for young d bowen byron would be absolutely the kind of guy I'd be asking about. It's almost manager malpractice if you're not doing that. Just on Drysdale, Drysdale's going to get the Seth Jones-Zach Wierenski treatment from Tortorella and Columbus.

Go play? Go play. You heard him call him a rover. Tortorella, like i said on your show i remember the all-star game in florida i think it was gary was florida or tampa but uh no it had to be tampa but jones and wierenski are down there at least one of them is from colorado jones was there for sure i think all the blue jackets fans will tell me how wrong i'm all about this but i remember at least one of them was there. And I remember Jones was saying like,

there would be times he'd look up and they'd be in the offensive zone and Wierenski and him would be on top of the goalie and he'd look up and he'd say, Oh my God, there's two forwards playing defense. They're at the blue line. Like we're going to get killed. And Tortorella would say to them, no, no, no, no, no. You guys, that's your talent. You do that.

It's up on them to cover for you. And, you know, like Tortorella, you know, I thought he really handled it well this week. Like he said, Drysdale's going to come in here. We'll put him in the offensive situation. We'll worry about the D later. Like this is a player, as you said, who was completely shell-shocked. And the way they used him

and the way they talked about him, you know, they put him in position to succeed. And I think Tortorella is going to be really good for Drysdale in the same way he was good for Jones and Wierenski. When does, I think this is what I'm curious about, when does the Tortorella test come for Jamie Drysdale? Like, it came for Cam York early. You know,

last season when he got cut out of training camp down to the American Hockey League, I'm still firmly convinced that that was a test by Tortorella to see what his reaction would be and how he would be in the American Hockey League. And the kid passed with flying colors.

And the minute he came back up, Tortorella could not stop talking about Cam York. We know this about John Tortorella. The Tortorella tests that he puts players through. You knew it wasn't going to happen right away with Drysdale. Right now he needs the full encouragement

of John Tortorella. But Elliot, you know it's coming one day. The first time he doesn't do something that Tortorella wants him to, you know it's coming one day. The first time he doesn't do something that Tortorella wants him to do, that's when it's coming. Okay, back to Anaheim quickly here. Not about Gauthier, not about Drysdale, but about Trevor Zegers.

Broken ankle, six to eight weeks, and tons of noise around his name, Elliot. Yeah. So I'm not surprised that there's a lot of noise around his name, Elliot. Yeah. So I'm not surprised that there's a lot of noise around his name. I just think it was normal that after he traded Drysdale, people were going to start wondering about Zegers. You know, like, Zegers is a really interesting guy. We've talked about this on the pod before.

I've had some people who think he's getting a little bit of a bad rap here what amazes me is is everybody knows what Pat Verbeek was like as a player and everybody knows what Greg Cronin values as a coach and people just look at it and say there's no way that this is going to last like Like this, and like I'm astonished at the amount of people who believe there's no chance that this can work. And, you know, I know, I know, Jeff. I'm just, you know, I'm just putting it out there. You know, I don't like betting against talent.

I think he's a really talented guy. I understand that he's got flaws to his game that he's going to have to work on to be the kind of player that Anaheim believes they can depend on. But I will just never bet against a player with Zgris' talent. It's just counterintuitive to me. I'm surprised, though, at how many people think it's just guaranteed to happen.

The one thing I'll say about Zegers is there are some people out there who really believe that Verbeek was mulling over something in particular. That there was something that got presented to him about Zegers that he was thinking about. And obviously it didn't happen before he was injured. And I had some people telling me that nothing was close but I believe there was something on his table or on his tablet because I don't know

if people actually sit at tables anymore um that that he was mulling over and uh you know we'll see we'll see where this goes um he scored two goals in one of his last games, and I thought he looked good that night. We'll see where it plays out, but I'm really surprised at the reaction of a lot of people. I actually do think, by the way, that of all the Anaheim guys, Jeff, the one who's going to get maybe the most traction this year is going to be Adam Henrique.

Oh, yeah. Well, it would make ufa players players players looking for a veteran center for the playoffs that makes a ton of sense elliot can i swing back on on one thing with uh with zegras there yeah i like i like your line i like your line about um don't bet against talent and i want to give you one scenario we We just talked about the Philadelphia Flyers. Let me give an example from the Philadelphia Flyers. What did we all think when the Flyers acquired Owen Tippett from Florida?

There's no way that that player is going to work with that coach. What is Philadelphia thinking? I think we had this conversation on the podcast. Could you imagine a player who you could just, the stereotype of both sides, right? Like, how can these two coexist? The relationship's been great.

The relationship's been incredible. Like, I don't think for one second anyone ever looked at Owen Tippett and said, Tortorella kind of guy right there. But he is. That's why I like your line about, I don't want to bet against talent. Because despite some people may look at Zegers and say that can't be a Pat Verbeek kind of guy

or Pat Verbeek kind of player, don't bet against talent. I really like that line, don't bet against talent. I am with you. I am with you on that. By the way, while we're just talking here, do you see Florida? Did I see the Florida Panthers game?

The end of the Florida game? Yeah, against the Kings. The 3-2 overtime win? Yeah. Reinhardt scored with one-something seconds left. 30th of the year for Sam Reinhardt. I'll tell you something about Florida. Florida has three games the rest

of the year that start as late as eight o'clock. Now in the Eastern Conference, Florida and Tampa have the worst travel because they're kind of the remote outpost of Florida. But the Panthers only have three games the rest of the year that start as late as 8 o'clock. There's been a lot of talk about Reinhardt lately. I would be surprised if he doesn't sign there. I really would.

State discount? Well, the thing is too is that... The Tampa discount comes to the Panthers? Well, that's the thing. Last year when they made the Stanley Cup final, I remember someone told me it was, and I think it was really good. Like they just did their new practice facility,

which I, which I heard is, is fantastic. And I love that the players are driving golf carts there. It's like, it's like the Panthers players are, they live in a retirement community. People are driving golf carts everywhere, but I heard it's beautiful. It's, live in a retirement community. People are driving golf carts everywhere. But I heard it's beautiful. It's a fantastic facility.

But someone there last year told me with the Panthers that they want to turn it into Tampa East. And that is that, like, you look at all the advantages that Tampa's built. Players want to play there. The good tax situation. The weather's great. It's a tremendous place to raise a family easier on your body easier on your body yes the travel in the eastern conference is not

great but it's still not terrible and you know i think the panthers look at this and they say why can't we be the same like there's no reason we can't be the same. And, you know, Reinhardt left Buffalo because they weren't winning. And, like, I think the thing about Sam Reinhardt is he knows what it's like when the grass is not always greener. And, you know, everybody fights about the taxes, but it matters. It absolutely matters.

And, you know, like, I think when you've come from a situation where you're not winning to, last year you go to the Stanley Cup final, and if any of us had any doubts about how good Florida is, they are being erased. They look really good. There's no reason they can't win their division again and set themselves up for a good playoff run.

I would be surprised if, unless they low-balled Sam Reinhardt to the extreme, which I don't think they would do, I would be surprised that that couldn't work out. People are talking about now that Nylander's signed, Reinhardt's the number one guy. Unless Florida is being ridiculous, and Bill Zito's a tough negotiator but I can't imagine he's being ridiculous I would be surprised if this one

can't get done and I can tell you I'm not the only person who feels that way there um I would be surprised if they couldn't make it work two things on that. One about the team. For a long time, we've heard players say, I want to play for Florida, but we haven't necessarily heard players say, I want to play for the Panthers. There's that distinction. But now they're good. Now they're winning.

Things change. The other question, and the contract starting next year is for $11.5 million per season. What is that in Florida currency? Yeah, it's, you know, it's always different because it goes by principal residence and there's other things you can do. You know what I thought was really interesting is that I remember last year there was the story in Canada about that one tax shelter that players could use in revenue Canada.

Like someone said to me, people started getting too piggish with it and revenue Canada went after it. Well, now I see there's people in California talking about Otani's deferred salary. Yeah. So don't brag about this stuff, people. Well, it's funny.

It always depends on your primary residence and things like that. But yes, at its base, Florida's taxes are much better than Canada's. 06.00 Lou Skiezis, who I've referenced before on this program from Report on Business Television, when we worked together, he always gave me this one bit of advice about the market. The market can sustain a bear, the market can sustain a bull, but if you see a pig in the market, get out. And I think that goes to what you're talking about there.

Don't brag about your tax shelters, people. Not a good idea. Let me ask you a question. Oh, by the way, I had someone also say to me this week, you know who's not getting enough love in the Hart Trophy conversation? Does he play on the Florida Panthers? Yes. Does his name on the Florida Panthers? Yes. Does his name rhyme with Alexander Barkoff? It doesn't just rhyme with Alexander Barkoff.

It is Alexander Barkoff. I, you know, I think, you know, when you got Reinhardt scoring 30 goals and you got Matthew Kachok, who takes a lot of the air there, I think it's hard, but, you know, somebody did say to me that that guy should be getting some heart love. So I wanted to throw it out there this week. It's a good one. Elliot, let's wonder a little bit here about the Winnipeg Jets.

And we hope that things end up okay for Mark Scheifele, who left the game against the Chicago Blackhawks on Thursday night. Thursday was a body count night around the NHL. Not good. Kevin Chevelle day off though yeah i know just like every time you flip the channel look to another game he's another player being being let off and down the hallway uh kevin chevin kevin cheval day off spoke on thursday um what are your main questions about this team i like the fact that he said that we haven't proven anything yet um i think that's what good

teams say um in my history when a manager comes out and says things like that they really think they have a good team because that's the kind of goal or example you set for yourself you don't rest on your laurels because you think you can accomplish so much more. And you want your players to hear that, that we haven't accomplished anything yet, so it keeps them hungry and moving forward. You know, some of these, his previous media conference, Sheveldayov comes out like he's getting a root canal

or a prostate exam. He looks really thrilled to be there. Oh, my. But he was much lighter in his mood, I thought, in this one because the team's been going really well. I've heard that they do want to keep Dylan DeMello, and he said that they have started at least reaching out to Dylan DeMello and Brendan Dillon, and we'll go there.

But the one thing about the Jets is when I start to look and and and think about you know the kinds of players that they might uh be interested in I always look for guys with term because I know he likes to acquire term um but you know the one thing I really feel is the Jets have proven they can keep players when things are going well, right? And they signed two big ones this year. So I don't know if he feels as strongly about that now. You know, they're a really good team and people notice that. You know, so I look around and, you know, one of the guys I really thought about, I thought he would be a really good Jet.

The kind of player whose game fits in with what they do is a guy like Matthew Joseph now the thing about that is they've already got a really good third line right so where do you see Joseph in your lineup he's making too much money to play lower than that I think and he's probably also a better player than a fourth liner but you know I've been looking around I look at a guy like that and I say that to me like is a guy who could fit in perfectly with the Jets but they've already got one of the best third lines in the league so you know that's the thing about him is that it's I just really liked his message if we haven't accomplished anything yet because their fans are happy that another sellout on Thursday night and you can talk about game presentation all you want,

but nothing sells better than winning. And I just thought that was a really good message he gave. And Jeff, speaking of Ottawa, I watched them on Thursday. I can't believe what I'm seeing with them right now. That was really bad. Look, Jeff, i thought they'd be better in the year of terrible predictions for me i don't think that i was the only one but i i never thought we'd see this i i'm shocked at what i'm seeing right now and you know norris

he didn't play on thursday and he's going to get checked out on Friday. This is a really big deal for a lot of different reasons, but the main one is when they came through Toronto, I had a chance to talk to him for a bit, and I also had talked to Jacques Martin about him, and Jacques Martin, like I said to Martin, like it really looks like that you are determined to put him in big roles like he was I think he was I have to remember I had some notes I think he was killing penalties more I think he

was doing some things he hadn't done before and Jacques Martin said like this is a guy who basically didn't play last year so he's behind and we've got to get him up to and in situations where he can kind of get caught up and be what he is and you know I thought that was really important to Martin the way he talked about it so if this is anything serious and you hope it isn't for a lot of reasons like it derails him too if this costs him a good chunk and so I hope it doesn't but I really thought about that you know Jeff I've said how the Senators are one of those teams that they've said some things this year and then you plan God laughs and you have to go in a different direction

I really believe they do not want to fool around with their core yet because they think it's too soon but the longer this goes on the more like we've already seen, they've changed their path. So you're foolish if you don't think it can happen. I don't think they want to do it, but I'm really starting to wonder, you know, what do the senators think here? What do they think? The other thing too is the coach thing. Some people sent me some Dave Poulin interviews where he talked about Craig Berube. Again, I can always be surprised.

I would be very surprised if they rush this without a full process because I think they know that this is something they cannot they cannot get wrong and and Berube is a good coach don't get me wrong here but I I really wonder if they're determined not to rush this meanwhile at the other end of the winning spectrum and the other end of the country, Elliot, the Vancouver Canucks. Will they push in all the chips this year? They're starting to talk like it. There's no question like that. You know what I think one of the real interesting things is,

like I'm honestly tired of talking about Pedersen. Like I really am. I just want to appreciate the way they're playing but again I had I was I was talking to someone on Thursday and I thought they made a really good point to me and that is if you have any reason to believe that you can't get Pedersen signed long term you probably have to go for it this year. And I do think the Canucks will take one more run, at least asking him about, are we ready to talk? And I think it's very possible that Pedersen punts it. It's just the way he's kind of gone.

But again, I want to stress, I think Vancouver is very confident they're going to put themselves in position to get this done. But if there's any chance that you think you don't, does that not, and I'm just throwing this out there, you tell me what you think, does that not mean you have

to go for it? They've got a really good team. A really good team. I kind of look at this season and to me the Pedersen question isn't even one, at least not to me. I of look at this season and to me the pedersen question isn't even one at least not to me i just look at this season and with everybody healthy and what they're doing like i don't know maybe i'm putting too much on those those three games uh in new york you know the the jersey game the kings of new york and the and and the island like everybody like we're only too happy to see

vancouver leave in that area. Now they left with six points, kicked stand in everybody's face, and took their per diem and hustled off. But that looks like a team. We always wonder, a team hitting their stride, team hitting their stride. This Vancouver Canucks team hit their stride early in the season and haven't left it. this season and haven't left it.

And it's just, I think that, you know, the Pedersen piece of this conversation hasn't even entered my mind. It's just, okay, you know what? Find one more forward, one more defenseman at trade deadline and go for it. You have to. This team is, this is the Rubik's Cube. It's all clicking together.

I think you have to go for it if you're Vancouver. What are you waiting for? I think you do it. You're Patrick Galvin, did your mother for it? I think you do it, Frej. Dom, how quickly are you throwing this last 10 seconds on 650 on Friday? It's already up.

It's already up. It's already up. Okay, a couple more things. Did you ever see King of New York with Christopher Walken, by the way? I never saw King of New York, no. That is a great movie. Right now, the Canucks are a bigger King of New York than Christopher Walken.

And I don't say that lightly. Christopher Walken is an all-time god. You know how far behind I am on movies? You know what I watched on the flight back from Seattle, finally, that I've always wanted to watch? Wizard of Oz? No, I have seen that.

I'll miss you most of all, Scarecrow. I'll miss you most of all. No. Titanic. All the President's Men. All the President's Men? Yeah. All the president's men. Yeah. What year is that? Like 1977?

Yeah. Next week you're going to watch E.T.? I know. I'm so out of touch. It's so bad. Star Wars? It's so embarrassing. It's so embarrassing.

That is terrible. Okay, let me ask you a question about a name. Okay, let me ask you a question about a name. This international event that the NHL will be staging, it's not going to be called the World Cup of Hockey. Do we have any idea what this thing is going to be called, Elliot? Well, first of all, I expect that they're going to announce this at the All-Star game this year because it's going to erase All-Star next year, right? This four-team event.

And someone actually said to me, are they going to call it the World Cup? And I was under the impression they weren't because it's not a true world event. The next year, it's only going to be four teams, Canada, US, Finland, Sweden. So I had heard they didn't want to call it the World Cup. And so this person said to me, what do you think they're going to call it then? I was like, I don't know. Like, I don't have a good answer. So I said we could have like a fun segment as part of the show and crowdfund what the name of this tournament should be so he said what would you call it what would you call it and i'm terrible at this like in my

days as a student newspaper reporter at the university of western ontario i was the worst at the headlines my headlines always sucked we had an internal newsletter and one of the things would be like best lead of the week worst lead of the week best headline worst headline i would always get worst headline by a mile and so i was thinking so i was talking to this guy i go how about best on best 25 and there was this long pause and the guy goes no that sucks we sucks. Nobody's going to call it that. So I was like, I thought best on best 25 was not bad. He's like, no, that sucks.

He says to me, nobody's going to call it that. And if I was in charge, I would never allow it to be called that. So I was just curious, what are they going to call this thing? And I just wanted to hear if there were any good ideas. Because that was and it was stomped on well crowdsourcing this one send in your ideas for this name because like elliot i'm horrible with names i'm horrible with things like this like i i can't even pretend to roast you about this because i'm equally as bad at it um okay and by the way i'm not a wagerer but now that the Leafs have sent out a note that Justin Bieber is going to be there,

I will bet you that Jordan Bennington is going to be there. This is going to happen. This is going to happen. That's my prediction. It would have been nice to see it in Central Park, though. Yeah, I understand. But this will be big uh because um you know that you know if if bieber is 0 for 9 matthews is going to jump out on the 10th one and do something to make sure he

scores oh that'd be awesome um bieber and then binnington's gonna fight matthews at center ice in toronto that just to top it all off matthew's got to bring some muscle man he's got to bring some muscle, man. He's got to bring Ryan Reeves. Former St. Louis Blue. Okay, let's finish up with this one. This one's sort of a tricky one, I think probably for both of us since it involves someone that we've known and worked for previously.

I was hired by Scott Moore to come over from CBC to Sportsnet and in a lower key as well. Keith Pelley was part of that. And Keith Pelley is now taking over as CEO of MLSC. Just your thoughts on this one and what are some of the questions that you have now that, listen, Keith Pelley is a legendary sports executive now that Pellelly's taken over the reins at MLSC. Well, it's a big story.

It was a really long process, a really long process. And I think it took a lot longer than a lot of people thought it was going to take. And you're right, Jeff. There's a lot of us in the broadcasting business who know Keith Pelley and have worked for Keith Pelley. And I think most people really, really like him. You know, to me, what I'm more interested in is what this is going to mean for the organization. Because if you go back, Keith Pelley is hiring more in the Tim Laiweke mold. Like Tim Laiweke was bold. He loved being a public figure.

He wanted things to happen. He was constantly saying, we're going to shake things up here and we're going to do things differently. And I'm not going to be afraid to be face front. And if anyone's going to have a problem, they're going to have a problem with me. And he, be face front. And if anyone's going to have a problem, they're going to have a problem with me. And he, he acted as a shield in a lot of ways for other people. And when he left, that really changed at MLSC, you know, Michael Friesdahl, who replaced him, he was simply there for the business. He was not like Brendan Shanahan became the number one person for the Maple Leafs and he reported directly to the board. Masai Ujiri became the number one person for the Raptors. He didn't have to go through the business side or a president.

He was the person who Devine took over. And, you know, I don't really know Cynthia Devine very well, but there's a lot of people there who really speak highly of her. But she was quiet. She didn't want the attention. She didn't crave the attention. And I believe she's going to retire now after a short period of turnover. Keith Pelley is not like that. He is not afraid to be a public figure he likes being out in the

public and I think that's the number one thing that people are kind of wondering about here this is going to be the first time in a decade that the person in that position is going to be more out front and I think everybody is wondering how is that going to change the dynamic of the organization? And I just don't think we have the answer yet, but eventually we will. Elliot, before we wrap up this block, a really sad day in Edmonton. Yes, I didn't know John Short well, but I knew of him, obviously. I knew Robin Brownlee a little bit better.

And Jason Greger wrote a beautiful tribute to Robin Brownlee. And if you were a sports fan in Edmonton, you knew both of them. And they were major presences in the market. So I just wanted to send our best to their families. And, you know, we have a lot of listeners in Edmonton who also grew up listening and reading to John Short and Robin Brownlee. So I know that they're probably feeling a really sad loss of connection to people that they have dealt with for a long time. So we wanted to send out the best to their families and recognize their terrific impact on sports in that area of Alberta. Well said.

Peace to both of their families and all hockey fans in Edmonton. We'll be back in a moment. Listen to the 32 Thoughts podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. Okay, Elliot, time now, once again, for the Montana's Thought Line. Warm up your vocal cords. Your big moment is coming. Montana's Barbecue and Bar, Canada's home for barbecue.

Try the ribs. 32 Thoughts at sportsnet.ca is the email. 1-833-311-3232. 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca. And the phone number, 1-833-311-3232. Let's start, Elliot, with a phone call. By the way, hold on. I got, I remember we talked about favorite numbers

or numbers that we liked? Yeah. I got a text from someone today saying a couple other number-related ones for you. Apparently, when Tom Barrasso, the now Hall of Famer Tom Barrasso, joined the Sabres as a rookie. He asked for double zero, but the Sabres said,

no, you're not wearing that. No way. Okay. And they turned him down because Marty Baron was able to wear the zero with the Buffalo Sabres. Well, that was also, that was what,

25 years later or something like that, 20 years later. Maybe things had just changed, right? But apparently Barrasso was told no. They point out Mark Napier wore 65 for the Cystic Fibrosis charity. For those of you who are familiar with Cystic Fibrosis, there is a charity tied into it called 65 Roses. familiar with cystic fibrosis, there is a charity tied into it called 65 Roses. And the reason they call it 65 Roses is for people, especially young people who can't pronounce cystic fibrosis

properly. It's called 65 Roses. I actually heard that a few years ago and Napier tied into that. And so those were a couple that were mentioned to me that I just wanted to add to the list. I love that. And if anyone has any more number-related stories, please. I love collecting stories like that. I'm sure you're the same way, Elliot. So please send them along. Let's begin with a phone call, shall we?

Hey, guys. It's Mikhail Grabowski calling. I hear you guys are talking about me, about number 84. I have a good story about it. It's a story when I play in Montreal, I won that number so bad. And I feel I don't deserve this number, so I just decided to leave this team. When I play in Toronto, I won my number 84. And I hear you want to have like a cold plunge. So anytime guys, you can come my backyard and have a lake if you don't scare the leeches. Okay, bye. So that is indeed the real Mikhail Grabovsky. I'm pretty sure and he sent the video out

on social media on his Instagram, which I should mention is officialgrabo, G-R-A-B-O. That's his Instagram handle. Check him out there. He's got some great stuff,

including some great video and pictures of his backyard rink, which is spectacular. I think he recorded that one at Main Street Bakehouse in downtown Stouffville. So you can see that video there. And as people have pointed out, it's a nice tribute to you, Elliot, because you can hear plates in the background

and cups and talking and noise uh your thoughts on the uh voicemail from Mikkel Grabowski former NHLer I loved it it was very funny I would like to say this I I am not scared of too many things but i do not like leeches when i was a kid at summer camp at what what is what is camp timber lane was i went to a couple different summer camps but one year at camp summer lane i was swimming underneath the dock and somehow i got a like i leaned against the dock or i i held one of the poles and there was a cut on my leg and a leech got onto it and it was uh i i it like it hurt i'll tell you i was i was i had to be about 10 or 11 years old not only did it hurt but you could see it kind of and you have to understand

this was 40 years old so i may be exaggerating this a little bit. But you could see it growing as it was sucking all of my impure blood out of me. There's a reason they used to use leeches in medical treatment, right? Because they would suck the impure blood out of you. But I had to walk to the infirmary, which really wasn't that close. And it began to hurt after a while. And they had to burn it off me. Oh, jeez.

What a story. I think they tried salt first. Yeah. Because I think they tried salt first because somebody said that salt could do it. But it didn't work. So they had to burn it off me. That's the way you get rid of leeches. So I will say, Mikhail, that very few things really scare me. But I'm not crazy about of leeches and uh so i will say mikhail that there are very few things really

scare me but i'm not crazy about the leeches uh i think the last time i talked to him about his uh his his lake that he has his property's gorgeous um he was gonna put it he has an island on the lake and he's gonna put a sauna uh on it too i'm not sure what that status is but um he's an awesome guy i mean he lives in town he lives five minutes away from me uh been to his place a bunch did i ever tell you my my favorite story about his house have i ever mentioned this one to you elliot so the first so so grabbo grabbo moves to stouffville a number of years ago him and his wife kate and their family and so he invites me over and i show up and, you know, Grabo had a, let's just say healthy contract with the Toronto Maple Leafs.

I think it was a neighborhood of $28 million. So I go up, knock on the door and Grabo answers. And the first thing he says is, Jeff, welcome to the house Berkey built. And I cracked up. And to this day, I still laugh thinking about Jeff. Welcome to the house that Berkey built. Again, follow Grabo on Instagram. It's a great follow. Official Grabo is the handle there.

There's one story about him that I wish I could tell, but I can't. You'll remember there was a game between Toronto and Montreal where the Canadians got really angry at him. Saku Koivu, in particular, gave it to Grabowski. And he got back to the bench and Ron Wilson was coaching. And apparently, Ron Wilson was said, what did you do to all those guys that they're acting like this right now and apparently the back and forth it's not something that can be repeated but I heard it

was absolutely hilarious that other players were laughing on the bench listening to this conversation between Grabowski and Wilson I will never forgive those officials that kept him and Kostitsyn apart. Because I think everybody wanted to see that one. Nonetheless, Grabo, thanks for the call, man. Matt from the Bay Area emails this in. Hello, Jeff Elliott and the rest of the 32 Thoughts crew. Greetings from Sharks Territory in Northern California. As I watch my Sharks play this season, your prayers to the hockey or lottery odds

for Macklin Celebrini to come home are welcomed. I've noticed that David Quinn would dress Jacob McDonald as a forward, though he's been listed on rosters as a defenseman, but has seen games in recent seasons as a winger. Considering all the Shohei Otani free agency news in recent months, my question for the two of you is, have we ever seen this kind of two-way player in the NHL? Being a Sharks fan, I've seen Brent Burns play both forward and defense.

Dustin Bufflin is another who may have done the same. He did. But never both positions in the same season. Thoughts on that one? That is Matt in the Bay Area. Elliot. You know, the player that is matt in the bay area elliot you know the player that i think of the most and he's not a player that young people will know but he was one of the most versatile guys around there and it's before my time too was a player jeff by the name of jimmy roberts and uh he was a guy that Jeff, by the name of Jimmy Roberts.

And he was a guy that played for Scotty Bowman with the St. Louis Blues. He loved him. He took Roberts everywhere. Bowman loved Jimmy Roberts. Oh. And then he went to him with the Canadians and he won a few Stanley Cups there. Yep.

It was just as I was really growing up and getting into hockey but he was a guy who could play everywhere uh he would and i guess and and people will tell me if i'm wrong about this but i think sometimes even in the same game and he was a shadow he was scotty bowman's defensive specialist and people would talk about him for a long time as the most versatile player who was out there you know I speaking of Scotty I think that he used this would have been in the Canada Cup 76 I think he used Larry Robinson as a winger for a few shifts uh in that tournament as well so that listen it totally screams Scotty Bowman the one that comes to mind for me

is the answer to one of my favorite trivia questions of all time. And that is name the player who's won the most Stanley Cups with eight, but has never played for the Oilers or the Habs or the Islanders. And that is Red Kelly, who won four Stanley Cups playing defense with the Detroit Red Wings, and then won four Stanley Cups in the 60s playing center for the Toronto Maple Leafs. So whenever we talk about players that do it all on the ice and play a number of different positions, my head and my heart, because he's such a gentleman. I mean, I'm sure you had plenty of encounters with Red Kelly growing up in Toronto as well. Such a nice man.

That's where my thoughts always go. But there have been others. And I think, like, you know, we talked about this a couple of different times here on the podcast, the idea where the game is evolving to you just have your position when the puck drops. And after that, everybody sort of knows how to play every position, and we're evolving towards positionless hockey in hockey

and specifically in the NHL so great question and anytime we get a chance to mention Jim Roberts and Red Kelly in a podcast we're happy guys here's an interesting one and I actually did something that I'm not used to doing some work around this one listen oh I know listen to this sasha from victoria hey jeff dom and merrick hope you guys have lots of fun in victoria i second the recommendation of taco fino but i hope you also get a chance to visit canada's oldest chinatown and sample some of the delicious barbecue pork buns from one of our many fantastic Chinese bakeries. My question for you is about a goaltending record.

I saw this on Twitter this morning. The Connor Hellebuck now holds a franchise record for longest season opening point streak by a goalie. By points, this refers to points in the team standings obtained by wins or pushing the game past regulation. obtained by wins or pushing the game past regulation. This has me wondering, what's the NHL record for longest personal point streak by a goalie, as in points obtained by assists and goals? How many consecutive games and how many points?

Love the show. Enjoy our city. So, this one is interesting the nhl definition is you have to play consecutive games for it to be a consecutive point streak in that sense the streaks are only two and there's a number of goaltenders who've had a bunch at two. But the interesting point for Sasha's question is there are a number of goaltenders who've had three game point streaks, five goaltenders, well, really four, but one of them did it twice. Tom Barrasso did it twice. Ed Belfort did it once. Rick DiPietro did it once.

And Henrik Lundqvist did it twice. Ed Belfort did it once. Rick DiPietro did it once. And Henrik Lundqvist did it once. The problem is they weren't in consecutive games. But the really interesting point about this one is Rick DiPietro's three-game assist streak, Elliot, spanned two years. December 26, 2000, December 26. Because of all his injuries i assume right yes correct december 26 2008 january 2nd 2009 and then january 8th 2010 that is a sneaky good question from Sasha in Victoria.

I absolutely love that. And this one is interesting as well, and it involves goaltenders. And it's an opinion question for you. Okay, this one comes to us from Dave in Sandestin, BC. Lads, the Gordie Howe hat trick, a goal, an assist, and a fight in a game is a fun accomplishment that gets full mention by

hockey journalists when it happens that's because it captures the quintessential mix of skill and grit that almost defines the sport of hockey my two grandsons are goalies one of them lewis recently had a great game getting a shutout which also included stopping a breakaway and congratulations yeah and aggressively diving with his stick into the forward skates to chop away the rebound. He was assessed a penalty, which got me to thinking, there should be a goalie equivalent for the Gordie Howe hat-trick. Well, this needs a name, and has it actually ever been accomplished in NHL play? He says, I searched with Stathead and discovered it's only occurred

six times in the past. First two were by Tom Barrasso in 93 when he actually had two assists in the game and again in 1998. The other goaltenders were Marty Turco twice, Marc-Andre Fleury, Michael Telkvist also besides Barrasso. So that seals it. It has to be the Tom Barrasso hat-trick. A thought to add to your 32. How about that for a goalie Gordie Howe hat-trick?

What would it have to be for you? I would think a shutout, an assist, and a penalty. How's that for a goalie Gordie Howe hat-trick? Oh no. No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no. Shutout.

Yeah. Point of any kind. Because these guys are scoring goals now. So shutout. Point of any kind. And a fight. A Gordie Howe hat trick has to include a fight. There has to be a fight in this?

100%. I am unyielding on this. Unceasing even you won't just take like a minor slashing penalty no no okay we can have a an adjudication panel to decide if the penalty is severe enough that it qualifies if it's not a fight i was gonna say like there's some pretty rambunctious things because because then you know what's gonna happen is if there's an official fight i was gonna say like there's some pretty rambunctious things it can't what about because because then you know what's gonna happen is if there's an official gordie howe hat trick all these guys are going to be handling the puck outside the trapezoid to get the penalty and that should not count okay so maybe it's that's not fierce enough so it has to be an

aggression violation it has to be a high stick it has to be a slash does roughing count elliot in your definition roughing counts okay so it has to be it has to be a penalty of aggression penalty of aggression so none of this trapezoid violations none of that ron hextall has to decide if it is a serious enough penalty okay very good uh and then we'll we'll point it up. In this case here, the person that emailed in, Dave, submits it should be the Tom Barrasso hat trick. But we will put it out to you fine people listening to the podcast right now. What is your definition of the goalie Cordy Howe hat trick and what should it be called?

The thought line, 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca, 1-833. Oh, what would you call it? I mean, the default has always been, you know, Ron Hextall. Although I would accept Billy Smith. I would also accept Ray Emery. Hattrick. Yeah.

Yeah, that's a good one. I would also accept... The Emery, the Smith, the Hextall. Those are all good. I'll accept Sean Burkhartrick as well I would even take Felix Potvin because

he fought Hextall and did very very well it's funny too because there were only two people in the ring that knew that Felix Potvin was going to win that fight. One was Felix Potvin do you know who the other was? I remember I talked to a Quebec police officer about it a couple years later and he said that when they all saw it they

knew pot fan was going to win you know who else was a quebec police officer pat burns his coach knew yeah pod fan was going to do very well that's right maybe maybe ron hextall had a bit off maybe a little bit too much in that fight uh 32 thoughts at sportsnet.ca, 1-833-311-3232. The Montana's Thought Line, Montana's barbecue and bar, Canada's home for barbecue. Stay tuned. Coming up next, Agent Louis Gross on the William Neyland contract, how it came to be, and everything that falls after.

That's next. Okay, welcome back to the podcast. I think you're really going to enjoy this. On Thursday, Elliot and I had a chance to sit down with Louis Gross. Now, Louis Gross has represented a number of hockey players over a number of years. You may have heard of Martin St. Louis before. That's just one of them. Currently, he represents players like Johnny Goudreau and Torrey Krug and Jeremy Swayman. You'll hear all these names come up in this interview. But the purpose of this podcast was to get from an agent's point of view how the William Nylander contract came

to be. I think you'll find Lewis Gross engaging and thoughtful and probably maybe even more giving than he thought he was going to be when the interview started. Here's Lewis Gross and the William Nylander contract and how it came to be on 32 Thoughts the Podcast. Lewis, the William Nylander contract. First of all, congratulations. I don't know what it must feel like when you finally put something like that to bed, but before we get into the specifics of everything, what did it feel like when it was all done? You know, first, thanks for the congratulations. It felt obviously very good. Congratulations. It felt obviously very good. Willie always wanted to stay in Toronto and that was his focus right from the start from when all these discussions began. So it became a reality for him that he gets to play the next eight years in a place he really wanted to be and really did not want to go anywhere else. So there was happiness for him. There was relief that we came to an agreement and that we could all just,

you know, move forward now. Is this true or false that right from the beginning in the summer, you and William and Michael Nylander basically said, if Willie's going to resign here, this is the area that the numbers got to be. And you never really moved a lot from there. Is that accurate? I don't know if the way you put it is accurate. I think that you put through the research, you know, as a group

in terms of what you think is the fair number for Willie. And for as long as I've been doing this, I always feel that if we're coming to a number, we're going to support it because we believe in it. And after speaking with Willie and speaking with Michael and everybody else and, you know, his entire family, we really felt that this seemed to be the right number. You can never project what the open market is going to bring you come July 1st. It's a complete unknown. But that didn't really factor in because Willie's focus was to remain in Toronto.

And our focus was to come up with a number that we felt made sense for him to remain in Toronto and we expressed that to the Leafs on numerous occasions. Because, Lewis, what people say about you, because I asked other people, what's it like to negotiate with you? And they say that generally you come in and you say, this is what we feel is right and you don't budge from there too often. do you think that's a fair way to describe you I would say it is to be honest you know I have a really good staff here in the office and we spend a lot of time you know trying to come up with what we

believe is the right number we don't look at this and say, if somebody's worth 10 million, we'll ask for 12, and because we're gonna settle it on 10. That's just not the way I've ever done it. And I think that as a group here, that's what we really try to do. We try to look at things and say, we need to be taken seriously by the other side. And if we're asking for something that's ridiculous, then we're not gonna be taken seriously by the other side. And if we're asking for something that's ridiculous,

then we're not going to be taken seriously. So we really need to support our number and support what we believe in. And when we sit down with the player, that's our approach as well. Listen, this is your contract. I've done hundreds and hundreds of them over my career, but you need to be comfortable with this number. And this is why we think it's the right number. And we hope you agree with us.

If you don't, you need to tell us. And if you get to a point in the negotiation and they're not getting there, but you want to take it, we're going to do that. We're not going to, you know, be stubborn to the extent that we're going to hurt you. And we work for you guys, the players. We're going to do what you really have instructed us to do. You mentioned you've done hundreds of these contracts before. Some of the ones that hockey fans will know for players in the NHL right now, most immediately, Johnny Gaudreau, Tory Krug.

I am curious, what, if anything, I know they're all a little bit different, but what was, from your point of view, what was most unique about this negotiation between Nylander and the Maple Leafs? You know, there were so many things I thought were unique. I think going into it, there was this perception that Brad and I didn't like each other, that we were never going to be able to make a deal together.

And that was just, you know, as far from the truth as possible. And then there was the fact that, well, look what Willie did last time. But what Willie did last time, there's not many people I've encountered in my life could do. You know, Willie has that personality and Willie has that inner confidence that's, you know, very few people possess. And he was able to take it till December 1st. And I think that his performance on the ice from the start of the season was not at all surprising to me. The contract was not going to get to him. He was just going to play.

And he really many times throughout it said, I don't really want to talk about it. Let me play. You just do your thing and let me go play. And he trusted his dad 100 percent. His dad and I were in constant communication. And his dad's a very smart guy. And, you know, Willie knew that it would take care of itself. Let me just take care of what I can control.

I have a lot of follow-ups out of this answer. So let's start here, first of all. Just a purely procedural question. When you're negotiating in this kind of a contract and Willie says, leave me alone, when do you say, okay, I have to call him now? When does it come to the point where you have to involve the player?

I don't think Willie ever really, quote unquote, said, leave me alone. I think that there wasn't the need for the phone calls, you know, we spoke, you know, we didn't hear from them today. You know, a lot of players like to be updated all the time. Okay, did you hear from them? Did you not hear from them? I think Willie knew that if there was going to be a phone call from us, there was something important to talk about. So that's really where I think Willie wanted to focus on playing hockey because that's really what he could control. And he believed this would obviously take care of

itself. And it did. When did you remember, when did you call him and say, I think this is going to happen? Because it always, you get the breakthrough and then you've got all the small things you've got to do. But when in your mind was this going to happen? Sunday night, I thought that it was really going to happen. And we signed it. Like not until the night before? No, I don't think you ever can. Things can change in this business. Anything can happen. We've all gone through this stuff as agents and things can change at the last minute. So until you can't really mislead your client until it's done, it's not done. I firmly believe that.

Who is the most stubborn? You, Michael Nylander or William Nylander? What a great question, Elliot. I would say equally probably, you know, I think we all believe in what we believe. Okay. And it's not easy to convince me to change my mind. And I don't think it's easy to convince Michael to change his mind or Willie to change his mind. If that means that we're stubborn, then I guess we're all equally stubborn.

But I think we're all really just believe in what we believe in. And I think it's a good trait to have. I really do. I think you have to have your beliefs and you have to stick to them. Michael Nylander, I covered him a little bit as a player. He was towards the end of his career when I really started at Hockey Night. towards the end of his career when I really started at Hockey Night. But there's a lot of talk about his role and what he does during these negotiations

and whether or not it's him who's making the final call. To people who don't know him, how would you describe him and does he make the final decision? No, he doesn't make the final decision. Willie makes the final decision. That's like saying any agent makes the final decision. And that's not what we do either. At least, you know, it's not our job is not to make the final decision.

So Michael does not make the final decision. You know, Michael is not just an incredible player. He's actually an incredible family. He has three daughters who are all tremendous tennis players. Two have played in college and there's a third one who, you know, was going to play as well. He has two sons who were top 10 picks in the first round in the NHL draft. Not many parents can say that, especially one who, you know, did very well in his own career and the pressure that that obviously goes to a child as well.

So I have tremendous respect for Michael. I think he's incredibly intelligent. I think he thinks things through very, very carefully. And he's been a big asset to me. And I just think he's very misunderstood by people who just absolutely do not know him at all. And the perception of him is not the reality. So tell us, go more into that, Lewis. How do you feel he's misunderstood?

I think that even the question that, you know, he makes the final decision, you know, he would never do that. It would never, ever be his way to make that final decision because it's not his decision to make. He's smart enough to know that. Things are a very open dialogue. And, you know, he's a parent. You know, anyone who's a parent would say, you can't tell your kids what to do. You can try to guide them

and you can give them your best advice. But ultimately, it's their life and they have to make those decisions or they're not going to be comfortable with it. And I don't think you have five children who have the success they have if you're telling each one of these kids what to do. The last one I have with you on this topic is William himself. One of his teammates said that they didn't like the idea that that William was kind of portrayed as other people

are making his decisions for him or other people are deciding like even going back the last one you mentioned that ended on December 1st a few years ago that that he very much has a big say in this and like I said this player didn't like the idea of being floated that Willie's just this rube who's told what to do can you go into a bit more about him Willie is the exact opposite of that Willie is very involved Willie is incredibly intelligent and has I mean, imagine going to 10 minutes before five. If you're lucky in this league, you can play 10 years. He was willing to risk 10% of that one full season for what he believed in. And if you think anybody would risk 10% of their career because some agent told them what to do or his father told them what to do,

Willie has a lot of intelligence and Willie understands this stuff. You know, if I speak to him about taxation, he understands it. If I speak to him about different costs of living or the cap and percentage of cap, he completely grasps those concepts. And he actually makes my job much easier because he really does understand it. He takes it in and then he makes the decision. Willie's persona is, you know, a cool, easygoing, easygoing guy. And he is. But he's also very sharp and very smart and one hell of a hockey player too. So six years ago, how close did he come to not playing the season? Pretty damn close.

Okay, pretty close. It was really down to the wire. And I remember saying to Willie, and this is almost an exact quote, I know you might be one of the coolest guys I know, but if I send this contract over, you sign it and get it back right away. Okay. Do not hesitate. We're really under the gun here. Okay. It was close. It was nerve wracking and it was close on both sides. It was, it was the same for the Leafs. I know that.

One final thing on this contract, Lewis, this most recent Nylander contract. There's a lot of elements to every deal. Which part of this contract, the number, the term, the no move, the bonuses, everything. If there was one thing that you could point at and say, this is the most important part of this contract for William Nylander, what would it be? He wanted to be a Leaf for the next eight

years. Okay. So if that's the most important, then everything flows from that. The term, the no move, all of it flows from that okay because he wants to be a leaf he loves toronto he loves the organization he loves wearing that sweater he loves it all okay um he that everything stemmed from that because a lot of players and you you can look at any player obviously his teammate chose four years every Every player can make that decision. And what is really, you know, goes into those decisions to, you know, is the cap going up and hopefully your salary is going to continue to rise. But ultimately, it's there's no right answer to any of this. It's really what you think is the right answer for you.

You know, is four years the right answer for Austin? It probably is. Okay. Because it was his decision. This was the right decision for Willie. Last one for me. You mentioned earlier that there's a perception, and you're right, there's a perception out there that, okay, this is Louis Gross and Brad Treliving, and we all remember the Johnny Gaudreau situation and how that ended up, and you wanted to put that to bed and say there's no animosity from both sides. What was it like reengaging with Brad Treliving on a deal?

You know, I think I told this to somebody. The first time I saw Brad since Gaudreau left was at the draft in Nashville this year. And I walked into the conference area of his hotel and he came out of the room and we looked at each other. We each put out our hand and we gave each other a hug. That's just how it is. You just, in this business, you're going to negotiate with everybody time and time and time again, okay? You can't let the past affect the current, and everyone knows everybody's got a job to do, and there really is mutual respect usually on both sides. You can't hold a grudge. If you do, you'll never get anywhere in this business, okay? You always have to work with the other side. I remember when Marty St. Louis

wanted to leave Tampa, it took a lot of work between Steve Eisenman and myself to make that a reality, okay? That was a tough situation for Steve Eisenman, a tough situation for Marty, but we worked together to make that happen. There was no animosity, bad feelings. We were both trying to accomplish me for Marty and him for the Lightning. And you move on and you go to the next one. It's just the way it has to be in this business. Was that the toughest one you ever had to do?

Oh, there's been plenty of tough ones. You know, each one is so unique. I remember going to arbitration for John LeClair saying, I can't believe here's this superstar in the league and we have to go to arbitration. I remember Torrey Crew holding out. That was tough. Brandon Saad. There were so many different. Every contract is tough. I thought Swayman's arbitration this year was tough because he's a young kid. And it's his first deal coming really out of an entry-level system.

And he's going into arbitration. Every one of these is tough in a different way. Okay? It was tough for Kyle Dubas to not re-sign Brian Dumoulin, who's been a tremendous penguin forever. And for me to tell Brian that he was going to have to move on, you know, those are tough conversations. So every one of them is tough in their own way. They really are.

So has there ever been one that turned so personal that you couldn't fix the relationship? No, there is not. I mean, I don't think I am the top favorite agent of every general manager in this league. And on the other side, maybe they're not my favorite general manager to work with either. But ultimately, we do have a job to do. And, you know, agents who have been around as long as I do, remember the Glenn Sathers and the Bobby Clarks and the Harrisons.

These were tough guys. And negotiating with these guys was not easy. I mean, I had my battles with Bobby Clark, that's for sure. But you've got to, you know, you you got to move on to the next one. There's just, you can't, you can't do that or you're not helping your client at all. Okay. So I'm coming in. What was the toughest negotiation with Bobby Clark?

What was said? There was nothing ever said, but Bobby was tough. The way he played was the way he was a manager. The way he played was the way he was a manager. And, you know, if he lost his, if he got upset with you, you knew it. And that was never fun. Okay. So, you know, you would walk into his office and sometimes you just didn't know what was going to happen.

So those are, that can be nerve wracking. He is, he's tough. Glenn Sater, I have so much respect for Glenn Sater. We had our battles. I had Todd Marchand in Edmonton. I remember going to arbitration against Glenn and I was, I was pretty young at the time. But again, so much respect for Glenn Sater. I really do.

And I mean, Lou Amorello, most people think he's as tough as can be. I think I look at Lou as a friend and know that if I ever really needed something in life, I know that if I picked up the phone and called Lou, he would be there for me. So it's hard to answer what was the toughest because each one on its own, they have different parts of it. This is a wide brush question here, but like, different parts of it. This is a wide brush question here, but like, these are a lot of great historical hall of fame names that we're talking about here. Bobby Clark, Glenn Sather, Lula Amarillo. There's a lot of hockey history in those names. Um, how has the representation business changed since you were sitting across from Glenn Sather and sitting across from Bobby Clark? How's it different now, Lewis? You know, that's a great question. I think because of the cap,

it's become more numerical, maybe, that a better understanding of numbers now is even more important than it was before because of the different information available on taxation in different locales it's become much more of a statistical financial numerical negotiation other factors are going into this okay okay? And I think that you need to understand the cap. You need to understand percentage of the cap, where the cap might be going. What are the net dollars a player might receive based on the taxation and where he's going to play?

And how are we gonna fit him within the cap? And, you know, when there was no cap, they pay what they want to pay. So it made it a little bit easier. And now both sides really need to work within the framework of what the CBA tells us we can do. Listen, you know, Johnny Goudreau, people forget, had to sit out, you know, on his first big contract coming after his entry level deal because he was a 10-2C. And 10-2Cs are tough because they don't have any rights. And the team would want to obviously take advantage of that. But, you know, you also want to present to the team, listen, he left school that helped you. So he left to help your

organization. And had he stayed, you know, he could have maybe stayed four years and been an unrestricted free agent. So, yes, he's a 10-2-C, but why are we holding that against him? He actually helped you by leaving school. So those are still part of these negotiations. But so much more of it is more statistical based. I mean, the people here in my office, like Jamie, who I know, you know, Elliot, she spends a lot of her days doing statistical analysis for me and who's our comp, where does our comps fit in and things along those lines.

To that end, you know, you, you know, one of the conversations here in Toronto, nobody takes a discount. And that's one of the things that, you know, the CBA is a divisive thing. If one player gets a dollar, another player can't get a dollar. So, you know, how do you manage all of that with all your different clients and the pressures that star players especially have to take less for the team? You know, it's always fine to take less for the team if there's going to be a complete no move in that contract you can't ask someone to take less and then he finds you straight because that doesn't seem to really make sense to me okay so why would a player take less

take less, why is it the player's responsibility to manage the team's cap? Okay. I'm not sure I really have ever bought into that argument that someone should take less for the better of the team. I just, I don't agree with that argument at all, to be honest with you. And I'm not saying that the player should get more than he's worth, but why should he take less? He should get what he's worth. How often have you had that conversation with players? Because we've heard other players say, look, I'm happy to shave a little bit off my deal because it's going to leave some flexibility for

the general manager. I'm making a good number. I'm still happy with this. How often do you have these types of conversations with your clients? Quite a bit. I mean, I can name at least a dozen times recently to have those conversations. And usually what it comes down to are two factors. The player wants to win. So he wants to be with an organization where he can win a Stanley Cup. Or second, because he's in a place he really is happy playing, they win, his family's

happy. He wants to remain where he is. He'll take less to stay where he is. And there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. And that's a family decision. I support it 100%. Do you think, Lewis, I've been told that hockey players are changing, that this generation is different. Do you see that? Yes. And I think a big part of it is agents' faults, to tell you the truth. When I started doing this, our focus was always college hockey. And we recruited players in college, most of which were drafted or were sophomores, maybe juniors or seniors. Okay. And you're talking about a 19, 20, 21 year old hockey player. When you start to recruit players who are 15, 16, 14, I don't think that's healthy. I don't think it's, I don't think the kid realizes that you're so far from playing.

And just because you have an agent, that doesn't mean anything, or an advisor or whatever you want to call us. Get better, you know, mature, grow up as a person. You know, a lot can change here. You know, a lot can change here. And I think one of the problems is where these players are being told at a very young age how good they are. And I think that's not always the healthiest thing. So the challenge there is, you know, you're in a competitive business. I also believe in sports. Agenting is the most competitive business and more than anything else and so you want to build up your client list you want your business to do well do you

do you talk to those 14 15 year olds or do you avoid it well i don't think we have a choice elliot um i did try to avoid it for a while. And, you know, you can stand on your soapbox and not get clients. But that doesn't usually lend itself to a business growing. So you don't have really much of a choice. Okay. You know, it's just the nature of the business today. And if we don't get in on those meetings, someone else is going to get the player.

And that's the only product we have here. It's the only way our firm can grow and get revenue is to get more players. So we have to enter that arena and go after those players because we don't really have a choice. Do I think it's the best thing? No, I do not think it's the best thing. And the other thing that goes along with recruiting someone so young, and listen, I have three kids of my own, you take on a 15-year-old, you need to take on their parents as well because it's only 15. So now you've introduced a family into this business as well at a very young age.

And it's competitive enough for these kids. You know, remember, there's, what, 650 jobs in the NHL. You know, it's not easy to play in that league. And I just think that's become a little bit of an issue in this hockey right now. Give us a sense. Are all of our listeners a sense of outside of the money? Like you mentioned, and we all know this is a cap system. There's a max that a player can make, 20%.

Rookies are capped as well. And this is a multi-cap league, as we know. Outside of the money, the contract, all of that, what do you find is most important to players? I mean, certainly Stanley Cup is a given, but outside of those things, what's most important to players? Well, you said most important is winning, okay? I mean, that's number one.

I mean, any player sees the money he can make, he can't spend that in his lifetime. He just can't. Okay? So he wants to win. He also wants to be in an environment where his family, if he's married, will be happy. You know, where the families are treated well, the kids are in a good place, maybe there's hockey for the kids. That's important. The kids are in a good place. Maybe there's hockey for the kids. That's important. The organization is very important. The coaching, the general manager, all that does factor in. And the team itself, the interaction with the teammates, is the wives get along. All of that really does go into it. Obviously, the coaching, a huge part of it. Okay. So there's a lot of factors that come into play here. Cost of housing. There's a tremendous amount of factors that can go into this list of what's important to a player. One agent once said to me, you wouldn't believe some of the calls I get.

What is the, I don't know if craziest or wildest or strangest, but what is one call that you got that you looked at your phone and said, I can't believe I'm dealing with this right now? I would have to think about that one because there's been plenty. You know, I get a kick out of, to tell you the truth, what I get a kick out of now is the call where somebody got cut, could be from the AHL to the East Coast League, the East Coast League out, and they say, I don't understand this. I was the best guy in camp. And I always say to myself, well, if you're the best guy in camp you wouldn't gotten cut because the coach wants to move ahead the team wants to win put people in the stands if you really believe that you got to rethink re change your thinking here a little bit because you were not the best guy because if you were you would still be there okay we'll find you somewhere else to go. I promise you,

we'll get you on a different team, but you can't really think you were the best guy in camp. How are those conversations received, Lewis? Now that I'm older, I probably don't care as much. Okay. Because I have to stay what I feel. Sure. They're not always perceived very well, okay? But it's, you know, listen, part of your job as an agent is hopefully to help these players, you know, learn to mature and take advantage of this small window. But I say it all the time. There is life after hockey.

This ends at 35. You're lucky. Maybe a few years longer. What are we doing? What are you doing next? Because there's not many guys who sit home doing nothing. So who are the after hockey success stories? general manager i represented craig throughout his career i mean marty st louis i mean i said it a hundred times i am so blessed to be a part of marty st louis career um you know it's an agent's dream you know i remember seeing him at the university of vermont i remember nobody would even offer him a tryout and now he's coaching the montreal. I mean, it's just the ride of a lifetime. Aaron Miller, who was a great defenseman in the NHL for a long time,

I think he owns close to 10 Buffalo Wild Wings right now. I couldn't be any happier for Aaron. Do you get free wings out of that? Does he send you free wings? No. Obviously, I don't know Aaron.

free wings out of that does he does he send you free wings no you know obviously you don't know you know someone like mike keen who i represented that he gets to live in winnipeg which he loves and work for the jets who he loves um how great is that and he's so happy doing that so some guys do stuff in hockey some guys do stuff you know outside of hockey but at the end of the day they're just doing things that they love and you know we don't lose touch with them uh it's it's just it's great to see it it really is great to see it lewis i'm curious about a um I'm curious about an ethics question. We've seen players leave agents before. That continues.

But I'm always curious about players' actions. And is there anything that a player could do that would lead you to drop him as a client? I think I'd have to say yes to that. And I would never give names, but we have had experiences here like that. And I don't think anyone in life should work for free. And I think that if you're not going to pay us, that's not going to last here for me. Okay. So listen, you don't have the respect for this firm and what we do for you and the way we try to battle for you. And you're going to not want to pay us or pay us what we charge our players, then you should find somebody else to represent you. My time's too valuable. Okay? So, and on the other hand, you know, there's been players of ours who have gotten in trouble and we will stand right by them.

Okay? We will fight for them. And we don't just fight for them on their contract. We fight for them in anything that we, they are involved in and they need our support. We're going to be right there for them. And that's my personality. And I think it's everybody here's personality as well. You know, it's Mark Tuforks for me here. He's a certified agent. And Mark really fights hard for his players. Sometimes he'll do an AHL contract he's really fighting for that player to get every last dollar that

he thinks is right for that player or to make convince the team to give him an opportunity and you know listen the guy in the minor leagues is not paying us a ton of money we just fight equally as hard for those players and that's that's what I believe in. And it's great to watch people here doing it, to tell you the truth. I did want to ask you about a couple of your NHL situations. First of all, Shane Pinto, very unique situation this year. 41-game suspension for gambling in the middle of everything.

I know there's a limit on what you're allowed to say about this, but how much can you walk us through this situation when you get informed who you get advice from? I can't imagine this was something you really were an expert about and just basically how you had to go through it with the NHL, the Players Association and the Senators. Well, you're right, Elliot. There's a lot of confidentiality here. So I'm really not at liberty to say very much. But, you know, knowing Shane and obviously, Lord knows I've gotten to know Shane a hell of a lot better through all of this.

Supporting him was the most important thing. all of this, supporting him was the most important thing. Okay. And letting him know, because as tough as this was, you know, for everyone to read, imagine at his age, what he's dealing with. Okay. And, you know, he needed to know that he, people were there for him and believed in him and we've all done things in our life you know I'm not going to say they were mistakes or whatever but life does go on okay and things you learn from things and we'll get through this and it's almost over here thank god

we'll get through this and it's almost over here, thank God. And he'll have a long career because he's a hell of a hockey player and he'll learn from it. And he'll learn the business side of this thing. And he got a chance to sit down with the NHL and he got to see the workings of the NHLPA. He got to see his agency being by his side. And, you know, it was a rough summer for this kid, okay? As rough as I've seen in a lot of instances. It started because the Senators had no cap space. And, you know, the Senators couldn't sign him because there was no space. It wasn't as if we were millions and millions of dollars apart. There was literally no space to sign and to have signed him

and used the 10% cushion that they could have would have made it difficult for them to make a trade. They would have felt handcuffed. Okay. And we respected that and we talked about it and we kept waiting for the trade to happen and waiting for the trade to happen. But it went from that to the gambling. It was a long summer and he's very young.

And there's not, you know, Willie went through to this December 1st. And the respect I have for Willie is enormous. The respect I have for Shane Pinto, because this has been one hell of a summer for this kid. And fall. And winter. Did you ever worry that his career was over? No, I didn't. That he wasn't going to be able to play in the NHL game?

I never. Okay, it never got to that? It never crossed my mind once. Okay. Because there were some rumors that he could be hit with a significant suspension once this started to break before the season that never that never was a worry never was a worry to me okay okay um is there any contract update that you can give on him well he's hopefully all things knock on wood,

he's going to be playing on the 21st. So between now and the 21st, the contract will be worked out. Okay. I wanted to ask you about Swayman. Another strong season. I have heard and mentioned on this podcast, I believe the Bruins want to get a long-term extension done. I know how much teams love it when you negotiate on podcasts.

Where does that stand right now? So why even ask the question, because my, because the Bruins fans are going to kill me if I don't. Okay. Jeremy loves Boston. Jeremy loves being a Bruin. It's a great organization. He's a great young goaltender, confident as can be, and as good as he is on the ice. I was just with him in Boston, and he's equally as good off the ice. He has time for everybody.

We went to watch Maine play BU and I think it took us almost 30 minutes to get out of the building, stopping, not just signing autographs, talking to people. Okay. He actually is such an incredible young man. And I know the Bruins know that. an incredible young man. And I know the Bruins know that. And we're going to hopefully work out a deal that everybody's going to be happy with.

Well, listen, we appreciate this conversation. Lewis, thanks so much for being so candid. We appreciate it. All right. Thanks for having me, guys. I appreciate it. How great was that? I really want to thank Lewis Gross for stopping by the podcast.

A really thorough interview. I thought that as much as an agent can give in an interview about one of his clients, Lewis Gross certainly did. So we thank him for that. And that's it for the podcast for this week. We will join you again at your regularly scheduled Monday morning drop. Enjoy the hockey on the weekend.

We'll talk early next week.