32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Willing Combatants

Episode Date: April 4, 2022

When should you stop a fight? Jeff and Elliotte address the on-ice situation that took place in Arizona on Friday night between the Ducks and Coyotes (00:01), the comments made by Tyson Nash on the Coyotes broadcast as well as Craig Morgan’s PHNX Arizona Coyotes Podcast, post-game comments from Trevor Zegras, and Phil Kessel's game misconduct.The guys also touch on Keith Yandle’s iron man streak (29:15), Rick Jeanneret night in Buffalo (38:20), if the Dallas Stars will make the playoffs (41:00), Patrick Johnston’s interview with Vancouver GM Patrik Allvin in the Province (49:15), and they break down potential off-season moves for the Devils as they were eliminated from playoffs (42:00)Music Outro: Cate Le Bon - HarbourCheck out her latest record on SpotifyThis podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Audio Credits: Bally Sports Arizona, Bally Sports West, Mike Rupp (Twitter), MSG, NBC Sports Philadelphia, and PHNX Arizona Coyotes Podcast.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

yep first concert i ever saw the ran-de-ran with the payola's opening you've got the arms of the string elliot i don't know the last time i said i can't wait to watch the ducks and coyotes play again welcome to uh 32 thoughts the podcast presented by the all-new gmc at4 lineup and that's where we are now i think what we should do is i think we should break this into two parts okay part number one is you know what happened on friday in the aftermath and what we think if anything should change because of that yes and part two part two is Tyson Nash and the interview we gave to Craig Morgan on Sunday. That's the way I think we should break it down,

because I think these are two separate storylines. There's a whole bunch of things, and I've kind of got it separated into a number of different categories here for the purposes of the podcast here today. But yeah, there's going to be the incident, or should we say incidents. I think we should also talk about the initial Tyson Nash commentary while the game was live. And then the subsequent, and I'm doing the air quotes thing here, clarification that he made. I don't know if that was much of a clarification. No, as much as it was a doubling down, but we're going to get there.

Don't worry, folks. We're going to get there. We're going to get there. And I think we should spend some time talking about the Teemu Salani tweet as well. I mean, this is a Hall of Famer commenting on this moment. There's some gravity there, but let's talk about the event.

Let's start there. And as much as we can, let's try to give this a 360, here comes your favorite term, Rashomon view of this thing. Let's try to get it from all the different angles here, starting with the Anaheim Ducks. What was Anaheim's main beef here? Okay.

So we've talked about this a little bit. I want to start a little bit at the end because I like to keep it fresh for the audience. Because the audience has heard a lot of the debates about this. You know, Jennifer and Kevin had a great debate on Saturday night. Here it is. Jay Beagle played on Sunday against Chicago and Troy Terry did not play on Sunday against Edmonton. And I think that we have to look at this and say, is this the outcome that we should all find acceptable out of this? And I like a tough game. I like a tough game.

I want hockey to be a tough game. To me, I want a skilled game, and I want a tough game. I want both. I am greedy, Jeff. I want both. You know, the thing that I look at here is it's not good for everyone that Troy Terry couldn't play on Sunday. And I think that's what we all have to kind of look at here and say,

do we like that outcome? And if not, how do we make the outcome better? I think that there's people in Anaheim who think that they're fortunate. They are kind of relieved that Troy Terry isn't as badly injured as they initially thought like i was told by a player that they thought that he had a broken orbital bone and those players were really shaken when he got off the ice and that incident was over on friday night and that's why zegras was mad and i have no problem with Zegras speaking out. 100% loose. And I get you're going to hit me in the back,

but you don't punch a guy when he's down, especially a 32-goal scorer in the NHL who's a superstar. I think it's embarrassing. I think it's a bad look for the league. And for the player that did it, it's humiliating, and I think he should be fucking punished. And the Ducks were furious. They were mad at the situation. They were mad at the situation.

They were mad at the linesmen. The players were shaken up. The coaches were furious. You know, obviously, they were waiting to leave, and their flight was delayed, I think, a little bit because Terry had to get some care, and they were just mad at the whole situation because they thought he was seriously injured.

Now, fortunately, he's not as seriously injured as they thought he was, but he still couldn't play on Sunday. I think the number one thing I look at out of this is I like a tough game, but I think if we're going to fight, it has to be willing participants. And I think the docs were upset that the linesman didn't get in there faster, but I think they were also upset that Jay Beagle and Jay Beagle doesn't have a ton of fights. I think 99% of the players would tell you that Jay Beagle is an honest player with a great reputation, but on this night, he went too far.

And what I could see coming out of this is a conversation about unwilling participants in fights. And that's where I wonder if we're going to go, because just to tell everybody here, we're doing this podcast a second time. We had an initial podcast and we ripped it up and we're doing it again because of new information but there was one thing you said in the first podcast we did that i was talking to a former player and this is a

retired player who played a tough game and you made a point that what happened between beagle and terry for all this code that some people hate in hockey that is if you want to follow this unwritten sort of hazy idea of what the code is that's not the code you don't fight unwilling participants like i looked at that entire situation and i said there there were two code violations in that one. Again, the unwritten code. The one unwritten code is don't poke at the goaltender when you're up 5-0 late in the third period. We'll get to that one. In a blowout game, we're going to get there.

But I'm saying if you don't like that, and obviously Jay Beagle did not like that, there was also another code violation, which is throwing punches at someone who's not engaged in a fight with you. At that point, that is not a fight. And the penalties did reflect that. Like Jay Beagle got the five for fighting. Troy Terry got the two minutes for roughing, presuming just because he came in to grab Jay Beagle.

He got the two minutes there, but that's not what you do. Terry did start the altercation like it was the the cross check from behind and then terry came in but it reached a point there where and i think a lot of tough guys would tell you a lot of people who played the game as tough guys would tell you that reached a point where it had to stop like that moment was treating dandruff by decapitation. Nice reference.

No, but that's what that was. That was like a huge overreaction. I think we all know what Troy Terry was doing at that moment. Troy Terry was coming in just to grab Jay Beagle to calm everybody down. I don't think Troy Terry had any thought in his head that he's going to come in there, snap his mitts, and start

exchanging punches and stretch out with Jay Beagle. I don't think he thought that for one second. I think he just thought, okay, here's what we do in this situation. I grabbed the guy that's just cross-checked my guy and we all calm down. Yeah. And maybe it's offsetting, roughing minors. Maybe there's a couple of like gloves to the face. Yeah, the face wash and that.

Yeah. But instead, Jay Beagle unloaded. And there was a point too, and it was really gross, Elliot. And listen, you've seen it. We've all seen it. Where it kind of looks like Troy Terry is going limp a little bit on his feet. Yes. And Beagle kept throwing.

Ugh. I got that. I remember the first time I felt that in a fight and I was really young too and I watched that Dave Schultz Dale Rowe fight from 74 and I thought oh this has got to stop this thing is over and he just kept going

like I'm with you like at that point it was like that's got to stop like Terry's intent isn't to come in and start a fight with Jay Beagle if a couple of punches happen okay but then when your opponent goes Terry's intent isn't to come in and start a fight with Jay Beagle. If a couple of punches happen, okay. But then when your opponent goes limp and it becomes really obvious that he's not going to throw anything back, don't you have to stop?

So this former player, and again, this is a guy I communicate with a bit, and I think he's really smart. And he said to me what he would have done if he was in the NHL was he would have given Beagle a hearing. I don't think you could suspend Beagle for that. If we're suspending Beagle for that, we're going into a bigger conversation into are we banning fighting? Which at some point down the road probably happens but i don't know that that's happening now i don't know if you could suspend beagle for that but what he would have done is he would have he said they should have given him a hearing and at least you know made him think that

he might be being suspended and send a message to the league that to everyone in the league that we're taking another step here to say that there has to be a level of control. Like Tyson Nash in his interview talks about when he played and Joel Quenville saying, Joel Quenville didn't allow me on the ice in the last five minutes of the game because I was always yelling and smirking and chirping at the other bench. So he was trying to save my life, right? But I also knew that because i did that and in the time i totally understand what he's talking about we've kind of moved on from that like times change but what this guy is saying to me i kind of agree

with it after thinking of it more is i think that we should have put it into everybody's mind that now we we have to do this like are you fighting with a willing participant and you know one of the examples that was brought up to me was last year in the playoffs ryan reeves was suspended for one game for kneeing ryan graves in the head during the colorado vegas series and that was where you know colorado was blowing out vegas and i think it was the first game and reeves was you know sending a message he cross-checked grubauer and then he picked a fight with graves who wasn't fighting with him and he need him and he got a suspension what this person said to me was that was a deserved suspension because graves in that point was not a willing

participant so what i'm saying here is I don't have as big a problem with fighting as other people do, but I think now we're in the phase where I look at this and say, is it willing participant time? And you can tell me if you think I'm wrong, but that's what I think. So a couple of things there. On the Anaheim broadcast, John Ollism, Brian Hayward,

Brian Hayward took aim at the Department of Player Safety and said this is a... What strikes me about this is that this is Anaheim's star player. This is their leading goal scorer. And the league often talks about the fact that they are going to protect star players in this

league. So let's look at what the Department of Player Safety has done about this i'll say that again the department of player safety nothing has happened to jay beagle at this point absolutely nothing and this is the department that said that they were really going to pay close attention to headshots well i don't know about you but when you fight a guy who hasn't dropped his gloves and you fill him in that's a headshot and that demands some kind of response from the department of player safety and let's let's think about this the one thing that i keep coming back to is timing is everything here elliot

and if this game happens one week previous, then we are having that discussion. Because going into the general manager's meetings, that's what everybody is talking about. And moreover, it gives all the assembled media there a chance to get all the GM's thoughts on it on record.

Because that will have been tabled, that will have been discussed, and that would have been the big discussion point going in. I remember going in, we were all talking about, oh, the discussion about LTIR and we're going to get our World Cup update, et cetera. And that was, you know, those were the, a couple of the big issues.

If this doesn't happen last Friday, but it happens the Friday before, heading into West Palm, this is all anybody's talking about. And this becomes a real issue. And then, Elliot, we are having that about. And this becomes a real issue. And then, Elliot, we are having that conversation. And then we are having the conversation that I think you're talking about, that if it isn't willing participant here, we're talking about supplemental discipline.

So we'll see if this goes anywhere in the off season. Is this something that picks up steam? But I do think that maybe it's time to have this conversation. That it's more than just the five and you sit. This is supplementary discipline. Unfortunately, it takes a bad result for things to be discussed, right? Or things to change. Again, like I do want to say this. I think when Jay Beagle retires, he's going to go down as a guy who's a very honest player.

He had a really bad moment on Friday night and Troy Terry was injured and it could have been a lot worse. In the moment, the Ducks thought it was a lot worse. And right now, Troy Terry's out of the lineup. And I think you have to look at this and you have to say, okay, we avoided a worst case scenario here. Thank God. Okay. What do we have to do? I thought a lot about what you said about sometimes people misuse the code or misinterpret

the code or they twist it into their own way. But I thought that was a great point that you made that was going to be lost to podcast ether if it wasn't brought up. And that is that that wasn't the code. That was... Yeah, you don't do that. That was not right. Okay, so let's get into the Tyson Nash comments,

which are really twofold. One, there are the comments during the game. And here are the comments. wants to go with him i'd love to see him let him go well i haven't seen jay beagle like that all season he's fired up i love it good for jay beagle he's a veteran player that's been around a long time and he's watching these young kids dance around these fancy moves those were the comments on friday night now yeah those comments in an interview with Craig Morgan, and again, I'll use the air quotes, got clarified by Tyson Nash.

And essentially what Tyson Nash said was, you know, instead of maybe saying, you know, if you want to skill it up, I should have said hot dog it up. And maybe that would have been a better thing to say. And Nash went on to talk about how it wasn't necessarily the Michigan goal. They're winning 5-0 in the other team's building. And what people don't see and what they didn't see and that I did see,

it's the smirks. It's the celebration after the goal. It's the taunting. It's the smiling at the other team's bench. And then it's the poke. You poke the goalie. And Craig, this has been going on for a thousand years in the National Hockey League. A thousand times a year it happens. You poke the goalie, usually something occurs afterwards. Why Trevor Zegers is in the goalie in a five-none game. And Nash said, and these are his words, and that's all I said. If you're going to, you know, do

what you did throughout the game, and with the smiling and the smirking, which I saw, which doesn't always show up on TV clearly, then that is what you have to be prepared for. Which is really nothing more than just a doubling down

of what he said on Friday. There wasn't one of those, well, your honor, what my client is really trying to say is, moments here at all. So I have a few thoughts on this. I listened to this. I went to the Kyle Lowry return game in Toronto on Sunday night. And I listened to it when my buddy who I went to the game with was driving me home. You know, I, I made him listen to this cause I said, we got to redo the podcast.

So you got to listen to this with me. And it was, so first of all, it confirmed what we all kind of thought, right. That the Michigan really had nothing to do with this. Correct. And Tyson Nash did mention that, and again, he talked about how much he respects and admires Troy Terry and Trevor Zegers and is someone that admires skill. He made it more like it was about the taunting and the smiling and the smirking. This was not about the Michigan.

It was about the smirking and the smiling and the poking at the goaltender up five, nothing late in the third. On one level, I was happy to hear that confirmed because the Michigan is good for hockey. So right now I'm looking at on, on Sunday night and it's just after 11 o'clock Eastern time, I'm looking at my profile because I retweeted the Sportsnet tweet of that goal on Friday night. And it's in all caps. Trevor Zegers does it again.

And it's a great highlight. And as I'm looking at it right now, it's got 11,000 likes and it's got over 800,000 views. And people love it. People love the ability of these young players they love the skill like the only people who don't like the michigan are people like you who have now proclaimed it boring jeff i know i'm such a hipster that way and look the other thing too is like i don't see a lot of people complaining about this nobody who really matters anyway and you know this year the nhl

created a spot for ziggurus at the all-star game because anaheim wanted troy terry to get there because they felt he deserved to be there yeah and so like i understand that and the nhl said okay and this is one of the to me one of the smartest things the nhl did this year was they said all right but we're finding a way to get ziggers there. And nobody complained about it. I was glad to hear that what I assumed was true, that this really wasn't about the Michigan was true. What's one of my bingo lines. I'm only going to judge others the way I judge myself. Like we've all had bad moments on live TV. Nobody's had a worse moment on live TV than I have.

I am very sensitive to this. You know, I really wish that Nash had said, I had a bad moment when it came to that because the sport got hammered because people thought that it was true, that it was because of the Michigan goal. And if I was in his shoes, I would have personally said, I really regret that that happened because the sport took a beating.

As for the rest of what he said, look, Jeff, this is my impression. What he is saying is exactly the way the Arizona players felt. And it's got nothing to do with the Michigan goal, but it was a night that Anaheim was dancing around them, and Arizona was frustrated. They were getting killed at home, and they were pissed off, and they just rebelled. And I'm not saying that's right.

Like I said at the top of this podcast, what happened to Terry was not right. But I think Tyson Nash is saying the truth that he sees it because he's between the benches that night and he thinks those Arizona guys are getting clowned by those Anaheim guys. And I think in that moment, he's telling the truth as he saw it.

I don't think it excuses what happened to Terry. I wish that, you know, he'd said like, you know, I, I kind of, I feel bad for about the way the sport took a beating because I misspoke the

first time, but I think he's telling the truth about what he saw. Do you think I'm wrong in any of this? Nope. I don't. I mean, it does point out, let's not be so thin skin that smiling and taunting is going to drive you to

violence, but we're going to, we're going to get there in a second. You know, the other thing I think too, is I kind of wonder about all this and Nash didn't say this, but I've wondered about it. If there's a little bit of

in Arizona like everybody mocks us they make fun of our arena they make fun of our team and I wonder if there's just a little bit of you know what you don't like us well we don't like the way we're treated too I think there's and again this is like way out of the realm of my expertise. I just try to put myself, you know, you always talk about, you know, not, you know, only judging people the way you would judge yourself. I always try to put myself in someone else's shoes and someone else's life. I think that it's a good way to live your life if you lead with empathy and empathy forces you to place yourself in someone's position to see his or her point of view. seeing himself more as Jay Beagle in his career than Troy Terry or Trevor Zegers.

And hockey is a sport that allows a lot of different people with wide discrepancies in skill to share the ice at the same time. Is there that element of envy, jealousy? I don't know because I'm not in his head. I'm just trying to imagine. If I'm Tyson Nash at that point, who am I empathizing with? And I do get that he is a broadcaster for the Arizona Coyotes. And as such, you are obliged to call the game from that perspective. to call the game from that perspective.

But at that moment, I'm thinking to myself, who does Tyson Nash put himself in the place of here? Tyson Nash is closer to Jay Beagle than he was to Troy Terry. That's the place of sympathy for him. That's what he can understand and that's what he can justify because the way that he played is more similar to how Jay Beagle played

on Friday yeah I mean I I could totally see that like I can understand the part where he's talking about the frustration that the Coyotes players have you know getting clowned by the Ducks guys when they score I get that I I understand that I think we all do. You know, the part where Morgan asks Nash. Did JB go too far? Do you think there was a point when he should have backed off because it looked like Troy Terry was vulnerable? No, not at all. Not at all.

When you are in a fight. Yeah, I completely disagree on that one. At that moment, I went, oh. The first 20 minutes of this podcast tells how we feel about it, right? Yeah. But that was the that moment i went i went oh the first 20 minutes of this podcast tells how we feel about it right yeah but that was the one where i went oh man even if i could have understood before nash's perspective on this is how the coyotes players were feeling at that point sorry you totally lost me i think you said it he's coming at it from his perspective the perspective he understood as a player yeah look i think you and i feel the same way that

you and i both like tough games neither one of us is anti-fighting i like my games full of great skill and great toughness i like meannessness. I like intimidation. I like people who overcome in the face of intimidation, in the face of odds. But I don't like what happened. I think it was wrong. I don't think it's a good look. At the end of the day, I care about what's best for the sport. And the outcome that we had was not the best for the sport. So how do you fix it? How do you fix it? As you have the conversation that we talked about earlier.

Exactly. That's the beginning of it. Now this caught the attention of a very famous former Anaheim duck, and that's team with Solani, who also happens to be a hockey hall of famer, who also happens to be someone that follows the game quite closely and tweeted out a picture of the very mangled face of Troy Terry on Saturday and had this to say, quote, don't like how these young ducks get pushed around.

We need a couple of tie domies here. Now joke is over. here now joke is over now i'm not sure how you saw that but i saw that as a direct shot at the general manager that that was a shot at pat for beak who wasn't providing enough of a security blanket around who timu calls these young ducks and listen he had that with nick delorier had that with josh manson as well but those two players were jettisoned at trade deadline we all know that verbeek wasn't gonna let anyone walk away at the end of their contracts i looked at as that as a as a direct tweet towards the general manager did you see it the same way i didn't initially but when you said that, then I did. I saw it as just a player saying, we don't have enough of these guys anymore, and maybe we should. Like, just in general in the game. Like, I did wonder if Getzlaff playing would have changed some things. You mentioned this on the podcast.

We keep referring to the podcast black hole, never to be heard, seen or heard from again. And I thought about that a lot this afternoon because we've seen this happen before when there's someone that has that presence on the ice who tells everybody to settle down, who's been around the game for a long time and who's a respected veteran that tells everybody to settle the f down they do yeah i wondered if getzlaff was there would this have happened and getzlaff's not i mean he's a hall of famer he's not you know a tie dome i'm not saying that to insult tie dome because i'm really not trying to he's not tie, but he's an imposing figure who can do things to even up the game physically if he wants to. And I do wonder if Getzlaff is there or things different. And I would bet that in the aftermath of that game, Getzlaff, who isn't with the team, is probably steaming. But after you said it, and then i thought about the trades they made yeah it probably was a little bit of a shot across the bow at verbique and you know the other thing

too is verbique who was one of the toughest players in the league when he played he was tough too yeah you know he probably also sees the change like do we need this anymore and i would bet that that's going to change next year. I actually, I should, I should say, let me just say this. Like, do we need this anymore?

Might not be the right answer. It's more like, I think when Pat Verbeek got the job in Anaheim, like one of the things was we're tearing it down and we're starting again. So it's like everything must go sail. Yeah. And that includes, you know, the likes of the two

guys manson and delorier who are ufas and maybe delorier's back next year jeff but i wonder if verbeek's looking at it and saying you know what it just it can't be just that much of a blanket feeling we might just have to say you know what these guys are going to have protection there's one last thing i want to talk about in this game and that is the mystery of phil kessel where did that come from so someone says to me look at the penalties i got what is it 14 23 or whatever it is yeah it's late in the third so phil kessel gets a game misconduct why does does Phil Kessel get a game misconduct? I don't know. What did he do?

He must have said something. Well, you know, he's not arguing against anything that happened on the ice. Like, do you think he's ripping Jay Beagle of the referees? No, I don't think he's doing that. That's the mystery. Phil Kessel, in his own way, is one of the smartest players in the league. There's some angle here that i gotta figure out why kessel got a game misconduct okay well now you've put everybody on alert because now this is going to be hunted by everybody i have a theory but i have to try and prove it first i want you

to put it on here now people have been bored we bored people now for 20 minutes. They've tuned out. It's a bad idea. It's a bad idea to just throw it out there. Okay. So we will try to find out why Phil Kessel got punted from that game. Phil's got to be careful. He's got a record to catch here. Yes, he does. He's got a, he's got a record to catch.

Yeah. Let's, let's, let's get there now because people have been, most notably Mike Rupp had a video he released on his Twitter feed about this as well. So Keith Yandel's Ironman streak comes to an end Saturday as the Philadelphia Flyers lose to the Toronto Maple Leafs and the streak ends at 989. Phil Kessel, the chase is yours. You know, Mike Rupp in his video talked about how the Ironman streak now is fabricated and it's not legit. We got to stop finessing and manufacturing and fabricating things to get records.

Like how many times do we have to see this happen? I mean, honestly, Keith Yandel was supposed to get scratched when he was in Florida. And the whole internet blew up and was losing their minds about it. And almost kind of like guilted this organization in Florida to to keep it going and then he got the record and here we are in a situation you can't tell me the best thing for the Flyers right now if he is not playing well he shouldn't be in the lineup especially when they need to play 15 and these 15 games the kids right and and that's even so if this thing and it looks like it's coming to an end,

looks like Phil Kessel's next in line. Phil's streak should have ended. They fabricated, manufactured, they flew him home, got a charter flight for him to fly, where was it, Chicago? Is that where the game was? He played one shift. A couple of things here.

What do you make of Yandel's Ironman streak, and what do you make of Mike Rupp's comments? I think it's also more. I think it's Kevin Hayes. I think how it got handled. Last year when that thing happened in Florida, the story goes that the Panthers called him in the offseason at some point close to training camp and said,

you're not going to play the streak's ending. And Yandel was angry that he wasn't given a chance in training camp to prove he deserved to be on the roster, or at least part of their opening night lineup. And his teammates rallied around that. They said, this is is not right he deserves the chance to prove and they felt he was not given a fair chance which is one of the reasons the Panthers reacted the way they did and won the argument I got the sense this year that there was a little bit more of the season was unraveling for Philadelphia well I don't think he liked it I don't think anybody would like it I think there's a general feeling he understood this call a lot more than the one last year now there were people

who said you know give him the last game 11 games get him to a thousand and then scratch him I had a long talk with a coach about this and he agreed with rup we actually talked before rup put his video out and then i sent him rup's video and he sent me about like 5 000 clappy emojis in response and he just said hang on which coach talks with clappy emojis to you yeah yeah that's one of them and you know he understands why they're important to players. He does. It's a badge of honor to show up. And it's never an issue when the player deserves to be in the lineup.

But eventually you get to points where another player deserves to play. And you're holding people out of the lineup that don't deserve to be held out. And he said you get some players who react like the kevin hayes i thought he was really good i love this team i love this city i love this organization it's it's decisions need to be made every day us players don't make those decisions and it's truly on us the reason why he probably had to sit out a game and and uh i can't say i agree with it but the impact that ke Keith has on myself and the guys in that locker room is something that can't be measured.

I mean, I know, I know sometimes the media is all over him, but what he provides to some of these young guys in this team is something that no one else can do. I know he's one of my best friends, but the way he goes about his everyday life is truly professional. He's a role model for a lot of people. I think if you ask every person in that room what they think about Keith, you're going to get a lot of positive feedback.

This guy has been playing since 2013. He hasn't missed a game since then, or 2011, and shows up to the rink today. He's the last guy to leave the rink. It's something that he strives to be he's truly a professional human and he's helped his team a lot this year uh guys in that locker room and some of the flyers players were angry and hayes said that he didn't like it because they don't care about prospects nor should they they know They know Yandel. They like Yandel. They want him to continue his streak.

But this coach said, and I think this is true, there's other players who look at it and say, like, this is BS. Yeah. Sometimes you reach a point where someone else deserves. It's not that Yandel's bad or anything, but it gets to a point where someone else deserves a chance to be in the lineup and players notice these things. And he said that as an organization, you become hostage to streaks because someone deserves to play and they can't play or that person plays himself out of the lineup, but you don't think you can take them out out like there's one person who said to me that they would not be surprised if this came to the forefront in

philadelphia after nick sealer fought nick delorier that was a heck of a fight so nick's talking about fighting people out of your weight class you know nick sealer fights one of the most fearsome guys in the league and this is his theory he's saying i bet you you know the flyers have some kids they're signing a bunch of college kids they want to put them into the lineup they've got some prospects yeah and you know they're also probably sitting there and saying you know sealer did that we shouldn't be taking him out of the lineup after that and you know he's gonna play on some pairings with some of these kids and maybe that could be a pairing for the flyers next year this coach said to me he says he would bet

everything he owned that sealer fighting delorier and yandel being scratched the same week was not a coincidence that the flyers felt that they couldn't scratch sealer after that you know i mean it's a good theory i don't know if it's true. Like, I don't think this was solely a Mike Yeo decision. I think this was an organizational decision. I think there was a long conversation either Thursday or Friday, and they just decided if everybody was healthier or they had a full

lineup, that's what they were going to do. But there was one coach I had a long talk with and he said, and he also believed there's one team out there that did not trade for kessel for that reason and he wouldn't tell me who it was but he said it was a team that was really deep that thought about kessel and ultimately decided not to do it because didn't want to break the streak they didn't want to break the streak and they wanted to have the ability to you know healthy scratch him here and there like in and out and best players play and he said this is a team that's good enough to compete and he thinks that this organization

looked at it and said it's going to bring a problem in here that we don't need and so i i just thought that was an interesting perspective but the thing is like when i look at yandel i'm going to remember a guy who played 989 straight games like i'm not going to think about him getting scratched i'm gonna remember a guy who played 989 straight games like i'm not gonna think about him getting scratched i'm not gonna think about that he just missed a thousand i'm gonna think about that this is a guy who had the record and maybe it's because i'm just an optimistic nice person but that's the way i look at it do you think that um because because I had always wondered about, you know, Keith Yandel and the Flyers this year. Was there a promise that we'll get you to the record? I believe 100% there was.

We'll get you to the Ironman number. I don't know if part of that conversation as well was, but after that, Keith, all bets are off. I don't know. I don't know if you have that conversation. I think it's more like we're getting you to the record. Brian Burke traded Brad May from Toronto. I want to say it was to Detroit, but I can't remember. And wherever he traded him, he said,

you have to commit to me that you're getting Brad May to 1,000. And they did. This year with Toronto, you know, Wayne Simmons has been in the lineup lately, but the Maple Leafs were committed to getting Simmons to 1,000. He wasn't going out for any stretch until he got there. I do think those conversations happen, and people are expected to live up to their promises. As we talked about last podcast, Elliot, as teams get eliminated,

we discuss what's going on with them. Let's do two quick notes before we do the devils. The Buffalo Sabres continue to have, I know they're one of the bottom teams in the NHL in terms of the standings, but they continue to hit home run after home run after home run in the last two months of the season. And the Rick Janaret tribute on Friday night was brilliant. They beat the Predators and it was great to see the building full. And those Sabres fans, you guys deserve a lot of credit because that was Jennerette's night and you made it special.

And then how about those players inviting them on the ice after the game? That was such a great, honestly, dude, I'm watching this thing. And it's, you know, we've always said, you know, there's two places in the world they do ceremonies properly. You've heard me say it before. Buckingham Palace and the Bell Center. Well, I think you can throw KeyBank into that on Friday because what they did for Jenneret, bringing them on the ice around the team like that, that was beautiful.

What a beautiful touch. So normally we call those an upper deck home run. This is too good for an upper deck home run. I think upper deck undersells it. This is a Reggie Jackson 1971 All-Star Game home run. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, and I know it's a really old reference, Google it. Reggie Jackson 1971 All-Star Game, Tiger Stadium, almost hit it out of Tiger Stadium.

That's how good that was. It's one of those home runs where the pitcher doesn't even look over his shoulder. He just calls for the ball from the umpire. The pitcher gets mad at the outfielder because the outfielder doesn't even move. And the pitcher says, could you at least make an effort? At least try to trot back to the warning track, something, make it look like it might stay.

Yeah. That's what that one was. But, you know, as a quick note about the Buffalo Sabres too, and even though the momentum started to turn before the Eichel return game, we talked about it at the moment, you wondered whether this was going to be like the big pivot point for the Buffalo Sabres.

And again, we'll see about that one. There's still a lot of hockey this and next year, but man, ever since that Eichel game, this has really seemed like a different Buffalo Sabres team. No question. It's a confident team. It's a skilled team. It's a team that's getting contributions from a lot of different places.

Dare I say, Elliot, the Buffalo Sabres are a fun team to watch. All of a sudden, where once upon a time, I can hang for a period and a half watching the buffalo sabers and then i got to go elsewhere now it's like you can watch the buffalo sabers for three full periods well look it's time for them to be good

it's been too long and the market's too important that's the way i look absolutely uh the other thing we got to mention is i don't know what's going on in Dallas, but same thing has happened all season. They keep making the West interesting. So we just saw that their game ended tonight. They just lost to Seattle in regulation and Vegas won Vegas one. Again, Dallas has four games in hand on them. They're only a point back.

Like the math is really, really good for Dallas. They're making this too interesting they are taliony ben stiller flirting with disaster a little bit here i i'm really surprised they haven't grabbed more of a hold of this i've told you from day one this season we're from pretty much day one they are the most intriguing team to me because they can rip off eight wins in a row and then turn around and lose nine one night they can look like a stanley cup contender the other time you think well i wonder if they can win the lottery like it really is like a toilet seat at a stag and dough like you don't

know what's happening with the dallas stars they could do anything what a ridiculous line that is it's great though it's that's a good line thanks man thanks man i appreciate that all right so devils oh can i get there now yes now you can talk about the okay now now i can talk about the new jersey devil so the new jersey devils uh were officially eliminated last week when they lost eight to one okay eight to one to the boston bruins tough tough night for New Jersey. But then they spin around and blow a 6-2 lead against the Florida Panthers and lose that game. And then earlier on today, I don't know if you watch much of their game against the Islanders, they lose that one.

Jack Hughes gets injured in the hit with Oliver Wallstrom. P.K. Subban fights him right after. What a few days for the New Jersey Devils. They get eliminated by the Bruins. They blow a huge lead against the Florida Panthers. They lose Jack Hughes and lose against the New York Islanders. And guess who the goaltender of record is for the Islanders? Yeah.

Corey Schneider. Yeah, it's great. You know, my kids, when they were here, they were 4-2. So they kind of remember me playing, but not really. So it's been a while. And my son's obsessed, and he watches all the highlights and knows all the players now, and he's kind of like, when are you going to play, Dad, you know, for the Islanders, and I said, well, buddy, you know, you got to wait your turn and just keep working hard, and so, you know, and again, like I said, my wife and my daughter, they've been really patient and just supportive of me, you know,

continuing to work, even though it hasn't always been for the opportunity to play, but you never know. So, again, this is, you know, for them. And, you know, obviously I mentioned, you guys might know a year ago, I lost my nephew to the house fire, and he was a huge hockey fan, huge fan of me and the Devils and then the Islanders. But, you know, I'd like to think he was here tonight helping me out because, you know, I had a few bounces, a few breaks that went my way,

and I know he would have loved to have been here so uh some of his his brothers were here and um their stepdad so um that that was a really nice feeling to have them here as well guy hadn't played in two years his last game was with the devils too and like if you ever dealt with cory schneider he is one of the real nice people in the game. Obviously, it's been a very, very hard run for him. I'm really, really happy for Corey Schneider. As for the Devils, there's one goal they're going to have this season. Goalie. And that is they're going to have to find a goalie.

They're really going to have to find a goalie. And what the Devils are selling to their fans and some of their players, and they've said it publicly to the media too, is our underlying numbers say that we are a better team. We just can't stop the puck. Well, you can't keep coming with that narrative. You know, last year they signed Corey Crawford. Unfortunately, he decided not to come.

This year, they signed Jonathan Bernier. I thought that was a good bet. He had a really good year last year and he broke down. Unfortunately, the worst thing that happened to them was Mackenzie Blackwood because people forget

he was on the Team Canada long list this year yes he was you know Mackenzie Blackwood was on team Canada's radar and he deserved to be there he looked like he was heading in that way and you know there were two issues that derailed him this year one was injury and uh you know I think there's been a battle between Blackwood and the Devils about the care and treatment of that injury. And I don't know who's right and I don't know who's wrong. I just know that that's been a debate. And the other thing is the vaccination issue. And it kind of derailed them at the start of the year. And unfortunately, it created a lot of hard feelings. And I just wonder, he's got a new agent. You never get a new agent when things are good.

You always get a new agent when you want to change things. And sometimes, Jeff, it's just time. And I wonder if Blackwood and the Devils are looking at each other here and saying, it's time. Like, can you fix this relationship? Or is it time? You know, the easiest way to solve your goaltending problem, can you fix this relationship or is it time? You know, the easiest way to solve your goaltending problem if you're the Devils is Blackwood comes back

and stands on his head and wins games for you next year. I just don't know if it's going to be possible. So I think where we are right now is how are the Devils going to identify that problem? Because that is question one, one A and one B that they have going into next year. How different do you think this team looks elsewhere? I mean, we know this, and I don't think that P.K. Subban is coming back to the New Jersey Devils. He's on the expiring contract.

to the New Jersey Devils. He's on the expiring contract. But there are some players that have upcoming arbitration, whether it's Pavel Zaka, whether it's Jesper Bratt, whether it's Miles Wood. I would be kind of surprised if Zaka's back. I would be. Well, his name's been out there attached to a couple of different places. A lot.

Most recently, and specifically the Montreal Canadiens. You and I talked about this on radio last week. I wonder about an offer sheet for Jesper Bratt, just that he's in that sweet spot right now. And there could be a big number. That Bratt one's going to be interesting.

I, I, I'm fascinated by that one. And Miles Wood as well. Miles Wood, our Brights. Yeah. Jesper Bratt, our Brights. What are you doing with Damon Se severson he wants to stay right that's what i heard and you have dougie hamilton and you have ryan graves man i

know there's been all kinds of whispers about ty smith this season but i i have a hard time believing that a team's gonna quit on someone with that skill at the age of 22. You know, the thing that interests me about the Devils is they're in a spot where they've got to sell their fans on their plan, right? Yeah.

What do you think their fans look at it and want? They love Jack Hughes, and why shouldn't they? They love Heischer. I bet you they love Brad. Brad, to me, is the biggest, maybe the biggest success story of the NHL this year, at least the most unheralded success story in the NHL this year.

How are you going to sell not signing him there to a big long-term deal? Listen, if it's me, I'm-signing jesper bratt all day long yeah but i think i'm with you but they're gonna talk about the number like there's always gonna be talk about the number they'll talk about the number and if they're uncomfortable with the number then you look to move them but how do you sell that depends who you get back i guess that's the only thing it just depends on who you get back but to me. That's the only thing. It just depends on who you get back. But to me, it's like, no, this is, we always talk about, you know, the biggest turnaround in the NHL.

Like, okay, who had the big turnaround season? Who finally popped? Right? That's the guy. Yeah. Or one of them. And he's your guy. Like, he's a devil.

That's the key. That's the key. And he was a devil steal. He was a late round pick that you guys discovered. A couple things to finish up the podcast today. I want to talk to you about the Vancouver Canucks. And I want to talk to you specifically about the piece in the

province by Patrick Johnson. The interview with Patrick Alvin. Okay, so pop down to the last couple of paragraphs. There's a couple of quotes here. So basically what you're saying is that Patrick Johnson buried the lead. No, because a lot of the pieces get to know Alvin, so there's a lot about his background as a hockey player, playing in the ECHL, et cetera. This is get to know the general manager.

We're going to find out if he reads this podcast because I'm saying that you said that he buried the league. We're going to see if he reads this podcast. Is that what I said? Yeah. Sorry, that's even worse. I totally butchered the joke. What else did you have other than a hot dog

at the basketball game for you? A couple beers, that's it. Okay, yeah, very good. Okay, so here's Patrick Galvin on the team. Yeah. Quote, we have some good players here in place. I think every player down there in the room have something to prove. We don't have the superstar.

We're not a contending team right now, so every single player has something to prove to us, and that's going to be the mindset moving forward. We're not a contending team right now, so every single player has something to prove to us, and that's going to be the mindset moving forward. Whoa. And then Johnson writes, he has some tough decisions to make, new contracts, others, and the salary cap presents challenges. If you want to be a good team,

there's only so much you can pay for players. You can pick and pay one or two players a lot of money, but then you know the team in front of you is not good well you know i think that's really interesting it's a good quote it's not wrong it can be red meat in a city like vancouver where they love their rumors like i've started doing like a lot of work into patrick alveen i met him briefly this week at the gm meetings but i don't really know him. I haven't had a lot of communication with him. And, you know, somebody told me that one of the best descriptions

I got about Alvin is he's polite, but he knows what he wants and he believes in his path and he will not veer from that. And that's kind of on a level that I like to live my life too. I kind of understand that. I'm not always successful, but I try to be that way. I try to be polite. I try to be friendly, but I have a standard that I expect from myself and others. And I don't really yield in terms of that standard. So what that means to me is that Alvin, when he got in there with Rutherford, he has a plan and he believes in his plan and he's going to be friendly and he's going to be nice, but that doesn't mean you should think that he's a pushover or is going to be able to be bent from what he believes in. Like I think JT Miller, and this could all be negotiations,

but I think what JT Miller is looking at is Zibanejad's deal, which is eight times 8.5. Now that doesn't mean it's going to be what he gets, but I think that's kind of like an opening salvo. And you know, are the Canucks going to do that? I don't know that they're going to do that. But one thing I do think the Canucks did this year at the deadline was lay the groundwork for what they are going to do this offseason. And someone said to me, and I think this is a person who knows Alvin reasonably well, like has dealt with him enough to kind of understand. And he said that Alvin, he's friendly, he's polite, he knows exactly what he wants, and it's going to take

a lot to get him to veer from it because he's planned out, he's meticulous, and he has a reason for doing everything he's going to do. I bet you he already knows almost everything that's going to happen this offseason. So how I read that is, in his mind, they're open for business on everyone. Not that they're going to move everyone, but they will listen on everyone. I think that's probably true. How many players do you think right now in this league, Jeff,

are really untouchable? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Of course, of course. There's a handful of players that aren't going anywhere. But I don't think that there are the sacred cows in Vancouver that we thought there were. Like, I still think that they're doing this on a timeline that fits, you know, the demographic of, you know,

Demko, Hughes, and Pedersen. But as we go deeper into this management group and we start to hear comments like this out of Alvin, I just don't know that they're married to them. That's how it feels to me. And then when I see that, I say, hmm, okay. So maybe we shouldn't let the cement harden around any of these players here. Let's just pump the brakes. I think Vancouver is going to look really different next year when they come back. I think it is going to look really different next year when they come back. I think it's going to be a really different looking team.

To your point about the plan that Alvin has, the plan that Rutherford has, I'm imagining that this is a really big plan. And it all begins with making cap space. And then painting. And then making your team. But the first thing you have to do is make cap space. and i think that they have a big plan on all of it that this isn't just we're just going to tinker a little bit i think this is big plans and when i see quotes like this i go yeah okay

i think i'm seeing this the right way yeah we shall see taking us out a welsh musician and producer who's released six solo albums over her 15-year career. Kate Timothy, stage name Kate Le Bon, sings in both English and Welsh, and her minimalist approach showcases her musical range. From her latest record, here's Kate Le Bon with Harbour on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. out is What you said was nice When you said my face to the memory What you said was nice When you said my heart broke a century Oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh2