32 Thoughts: The Podcast - ZEE-RO CHANCE! (stay till the end of the podcast)

Episode Date: October 18, 2021

Jeff and Elliotte debut their new segment on Hockey Night in Canada! They talk about the experience (00:01) and some of the topics from the segment including extension talks for John Klingberg (4:30), more Eichel updates (14:30), shortened rosters (42:00) and the new standards for officials (50:00). They also touch on Colorado being in on almost every big-name player (23:00), Montreal losing some of their identity (10:45 & 28:45), injuries in Vegas (25:45), the Jack Hughes goal and celebration (36:30) and they answer some of your emails (57:30). Email the podcast your questions, comments or music suggestions [e-mail] New Podcast Intro Music by Jane’s Party. Thank you to Zach, Tom, Devon and Jeff for composing this season’s intro music. You can find their full discography here Music Outro: Blood Wizard – Somehow I Knew Listen to more tracks by Blood Wizard here This podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman. Audio Credits: 104.5 The Team ESPN Radio, NHL Network, Sportsnet and WGN Radio 720. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates

I just wanted to start off the podcast by wishing the best to Jim Benning of the Vancouver Canucks and his family. In case you hadn't seen the story, late Saturday night, early Sunday morning, one of Jim's sons was attacked outside a Vancouver establishment and was hospitalized. We just want to send the Bennings the best. Wish them a speedy recovery. All of us are with you. Our thoughts are to the bennings peace to that entire family elliot it's the topic that keeps on giving us content jack eichel oh and before we get to

jack eichel what i just wanted to congratulate you on your segment debut on saturday night it was great to work with you it was great to be on air with you. I'm not sure you're going to be invited back next week because you ruined the other panel. Okay, first of all, first of all, before we get there, I've never seen you so happy. Were you just so happy

to be working with me on Saturday, Elliot? I was. I really loved it, I have to say. So I didn't know that I was blown through stop signs, though. So this is what happened. Basically, the way the second intermission works is we do the 32 thoughts, what used to be the headlines, and then Dave Amber comes on with the other panel, which is BXA, Botterill, and Rudy. And when Jeff started talking about the Dallas situation, John Klingberg, our producer, Brian Spear, said in my ear very clearly, one minute.

And Jeff was like the Energizer bunny. He kept going and going and going. Okay, Dallas. All right, Dallas and John Klingberg. Okay, so as we all know, Ron, this was the offseason where defensemen got paid and got paid large. And there are three that are particularly, I suppose, salient to this conversation about john clingberg the dougie hamilton contract the seth jones deal and the darnell nurse deal now one thing that i want to make perfectly clear to everybody here and i was sitting there saying okay like he's got good

information like i'm not i'm not one of those people who counts airtime unlike some other people i work with who say well wait a sec he got 38 seconds i only got 32 like this is bs i'm complaining to my agent which is why you bring it up here on the podcast no no this is just funny because i i love this i love this so you you go and you go and you go and i'm like okay i no big deal because you know we'll find it's the first one we're working it out and then as you start to finish spears he goes in my ear 45 seconds and I'm like that has to be the longest 15 seconds in history what are we timing with that that was only 15 seconds so I did the two quick things and we wrapped up and what I found out later was that you had gone so long that there was no room for the other panel. You prevented Amber and BXA and Botterill

and Rudy's families from seeing them. They were cheated out of their opportunity to be seen by their loved ones. Spearsie had to cancel the panel. Yeah, I kind of went Broadway on that one. Although in my defense, I didn't hear the one minute warning though before i started going broadway on the dallas i didn't know that i didn't know

you couldn't hear brian i didn't have him in my ifb so i don't know i'm just gonna keep talking until i hear someone say rap no you know i think it's better if you claim for the purposes of the podcast that you were steaming around third base yeah the third base coach had the stop sign up and you just decided to go right through to see if you could score. Right through it. If you could beat the throw home. Yeah. Anyway, you know, the key thing is here, it was a good scoop.

It was Klingberg, who we'll get to. Anyway, congratulations. Thanks, man. And I'm very curious to see if there was an invitation to return next week considering you blew off the lead studio producer. It just might be you and Ron next week and I'll be watching from home with my dog at my feet in my comfy chair in my office i just remember thinking to myself that was the slowest 15 seconds that i've ever heard yeah oh well you know uh I have no defense.

I have no defense, honestly, other than I didn't hear him say, you have a minute. That's a good defense, though. But at the same time, so I can blame it on it's a new studio, so maybe that wasn't working. I don't know. I got all kinds of excuses. There was a lot to the Klingberg stuff, though. There was.

You had a lot of great detail. Okay, so the Klingberg thing is essentially this. So as we all know, a lot of defensemen got paid in the offseason, and I think the contracts that are particularly relevant to John Klingberg thing is essentially this. So as we all know, a lot of defensemen got paid in the off season. And I think the contracts that are particularly relevant to John Klingberg are Seth Jones, Darnell Nurse, and to some extent, Dougie Hamilton. Now, I know that John Klingberg is 29 years old, not 26 or 27 years old. And he's not looking for something of the eight-year term, $76 million or $74 million. But the camp is looking for full term, so eight years, somewhere in the mid-60s. So if I'm throwing a dart, it's between $62 and $66 million on an extension for

John Klingberg, who's a pending unrestricted free agent. Here's someone that plays 22, 23 minutes a night for the Dallas Stars. He anchors the power play. He's a 55 to 60 point guy. He anchors the power play. He's a 55 to 60 point guy. But one of the interesting things, and listen, Jim Nill is a smart general manager. That's no secret. Jim Nill, much like the St. Louis Blues previous with Alex Petrangelo, when the St. Louis Blues were entering the negotiation year with Alex Petrangelo on an extension, you know, there was some talk and eventually it proved to be true that Petrangelo might not re-up with the St. Louis Blues. So they picked up Justin Falk and many of us looked at it and rightfully so as Alex Petrangelo insurance. And as a couple of people around Dallas pointed out to me, look no further than what Jim Nill did in the off season by acquiring three defensemen, Ryan Suter, Yanni Hockenpah, and Andreas Borgman as well, just in case things don't work out with the Dallas Stars and John Klingberg. Now, having said all that,

Jim Nell wants John Klingberg to stay. John Klingberg wants to stay in Dallas. The only issue is, where is the decimal point? And the camp is looking for full term and somewhere in the mid 60s for compensation. Well, there's a couple of things here. Number one, I think Dallas has the Haskin in line, right? Nobody's going over him. That's one particular situation.

And number two, I don't necessarily think they're that far apart but what i had heard is that dallas had gone as far as they were willing to go and as you point out uh miro hayes canons aav is 8.45 and that's sort of in the sweet spot maybe a little bit lower of what the Klingberg camp is looking for. Where does this one head? I don't know. Both sides want it to work. The defenseman wants to be there. The general manager wants him to be there. But if they can't arrive at a decimal point, that's an interesting decision for the Dallas Stars, who haven't had, by the way, the best of all possible starts of the season,

and they just lost to the Ottawa Senators this afternoon. John Klingberg is injured. I believe he'll be reevaluated towards the end of next week. This will be an interesting one to watch. I think there's some stress there, Jeff. Because if they can't get an agreement, John Klingberg could be a very interesting player come trade deadline time.

I think there's some stress there with the way they started. You already saw Rick Bonas call out the top guys after two games. After two games, you're calling out top guys. I do think they are saying to their, their top players, we're not tolerating a slow start this year. I'm always curious about comments from coaches

in the first couple of weeks of the season, because listen, it's the beginning of the season. The Dallas stars go one and two in their first three games. If it's middle of February and in a certain week, they go one and two, we just shrug it off and it's part of the season. The only issue is this happens at the beginning of the season where everything rightly or wrongly gets magnified. But there's of course carry over from, from previous seasons. And last year, I think we all gave the Dallas Stars a mulligan, whether it was natural

disasters or whether it was COVID for that team to say nothing of injuries coming out of the bubble that really hampered the team's chances of doing anything significant. We looked at Dallas and said, I know teams don't like making excuses, but man, the Dallas Stars have a lot built in already. So I was a little bit surprised that after the Boston game, Rick Bonas would say, you know,

we need more from our big guys, from our veteran guys. And you saw what Jamie Benn did Sunday in that game against Ottawa. He fought Josh Brown. Don't know what it means. Don't know if it achieved anything. But if a message was sent, maybe in Jamie Benn's mind, that was him saying message received. How do you see Dallas this year?

When we did our team by team, I said I thought that they would be a comfortable playoff team. So far, not that comfortable. And the coach really wanted to make them uncomfortable. So I'm with you. I think it's a little early, but I think it says what Dallas feels internally about their expectations this year. But you know what?

You know what it underscores too, Elliot? We've talked about this the last couple of seasons, but we haven't experienced it because we had the shortened season and before that, the stop and start season that led to the playoffs in the bubble playoff hockey almost starts right away like there's no easing into a season anymore you know once upon a time you know every team could sort of ease into the season and you know everything will be fine i know you've talked about the u.s thanksgiving cut offline before but no mine's november 1st oh yours november sorry yours november 1st think ken holland'sand's is us thanksgiving is it kenny holland's

that yes the stress for coaches is always there even in the off season but it gets ratcheted up right away in the nhl like these guys like first to the rink last to leave shoulder all the stress spend countless nights thinking about you know power play personnel and deployment and execution and like you live it like we're all in during the season but nowhere does it really dominate the brain quite like an nhl coach which i always say who would choose this life like i'm always amazed at people that want to coach at the national hockey league level i know they're well compensated, but man, the stress you go through when you're a head coach, but it starts right away. You know, like Rick Bonas may be the first one, but there'll be more. Like there'll be a coach this week that rips into his team publicly. Like, listen, there's some, Montreal's

0-3, you know, sky is falling in Montreal right now. There's issues around other teams in the NHL. Those are the two that come to mind right away. I'm very curious about Montreal. I think they've lost their identity. And I think they've lost their identity, or at least the identity that put them through the playoffs last year. And we talked about Price. We talked about Weber.

You know the guy who we didn't talk about, who I think is huge to this, is Deneau. Deneau did not have a great start last year, but their rise really started to go as he kind of put his game back together. What was the line, Elliot? Deneau, Tatar, Gallagher. That was the money line they could always go to.

Always. Two of the three are gone. And one didn't even play in the playoffs. That's right. And if you look at LA in their first game when they wiped out Vegas, Kopitar got five points. Now, I'm not that demanding that I'm expecting Kopitar to keep putting up five points a night,

that demanding that I'm expecting to keep Kopitar to keep putting up five points a night. But it is very clear that LA signed an O with the desire to say, you're going to ease Kopitar's load. The goal is that he can't do it all anymore and we need to free him up a bit. you can handle some of the defensive responsibilities. And I think that's affected Suzuki in Montreal. Suzuki is a great player and I think he's absolutely worth the money, but he doesn't have the security blanket there anymore of to know the experienced player that could help him out on those nights. I think the Canadians have lost their identity and that's going to be a very, very difficult thing to find this year as they try to navigate their way through

Weber's absence, Deneau's absence, and hopefully Price's eventual return. I don't think we really did a good enough job of seeing that this could be coming. They didn't just lose one center, they lost two. Inyesberry cut Kinyemi as well. Now they replaced him with Christian Dvorak, but nonetheless, that was someone drafted and developed and in the system. And I know at times it was frustrating

having him in the lineup and there were the growing pains and some of them were awkward, but sometimes it was spectacular. He's gone too. It's tough to lose one center, especially your first line center. Try losing two. You don't have Edmondson either

who was a big part of what you did last year. I think the Canadians have lost a chunk of what they were. And when you have price there, maybe you can overcome some of that. I saw a team on Saturday night and I saw a team on opening night. I didn't watch the Buffalo game as closely, but I saw a team that's trying to figure out, okay, this is what we were last year, and this is what made us successful.

And we don't have that right now, and how do we get back to that? And there's our Jack Eichel conversation. Welcome to the podcast, which I would like on the other side. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Let's get going now. Once again, thanks to Jane's Party for the new intro here on 32 Thoughts, the podcast, Merrick alongside Friedman, our producer, Amal Delich. And, okay, I swear, this time we're not going to get detoured and sidetracked. We are going to talk about the story that keeps on giving

and that, unfortunately for Jack Eichel's health, continues into this week. You reported on Saturday something about the Colorado Avalanche and the Buffalo Sabres not retaining salary. For those that didn't watch 32 Thoughts on Hockey Night on Saturday, can you please recap, Mr. Friedman? Yes. Basically what happened is that Buffalo has told teams they are not willing to retain salary on Jack Eichel.

He's got four more years after this year at $10 million. And even though Buffalo has indicated they will be willing to retain salary on Jack Eichel. He's got four more years after this year at $10 million. And even though Buffalo has indicated they will be willing to take a contract, for example, a player who has got a big number for a year or two, they're willing to do that. They're not willing to retain on four. And because Eichel has so much term remaining, it's such a big number,

and the cap isn't going up for the next few years it adds a complication you know teams are saying we still might need you to do that and buffalo has said no at this point they're not willing to do it and one of the teams that i'd heard it called buffalo was colorado and i don't even think it got to names like don't even speculate names because what I heard was that Colorado said to them before we even talk about any of this was you know will you retain we can't do it unless you're willing to retain and Buffalo said no so Colorado was was out of the picture but I think they were interested and when I heard that I was really curious could you imagine Colorado with that player but they can't make it work so so someone called me the other day

well i guess earlier sunday as you know after the report aired and i think everybody here is trying to find ways to put some pressure on this to get this moving. You know, what someone said to me was Buffalo was very patient with Ristolainen and made a deal that they were very happy with as an organization. Like they thought that Kevin Adams did a great job on the Ristolainen deal. So what Adams apparently his message was, we were patient until we got what we wanted so that is the path that buffalo has chosen it worked for us once here so we want to do this again and buffalo's kind of i don't know if push back on it is the right word but i'll say push back or sorry prevent this feeling from of we have to get something done here

because it's just a bad look and it's not right from, you know, creeping in or overwhelming them or forcing them into a position they don't want to be in. But I am getting a sense, Jeff, that, you know, people are saying, you know, we have to find a solution to this. We really, because at the end of the day, the guy needs a surgery. And I don't think people like fooling around with that. I really don't.

So can we then safely, because otherwise, why would you contact the Buffalo Sabres safely put Colorado in the camp of favoring the disc replacement surgery as opposed to the spinal fusion? Or is that too much of a leap? To me, it's too much of a leap. I've got to think that by now, every team has done their research. And I think that Eichel continues to see as many specialists and doctors as he's needed to see to help teams get some clarity on this.

But the only reason i'm saying i don't know is that i don't know you'd have to think colorado would do its research if they're wanting to go down the line nobody's told me that colorado was comfortable with this i just heard they called and were basically told you know if you're not going to or basically said if you're not going to do that we can't do it elliot do you think that this issue, now that we're seeing with Jack Eichel, and we all know the fusion versus disc replacement dynamic in the issue and all the information that is entailed, do you think that this will force a massaging of the CBA or a change in the CBA?

I mean, this very much falls under the law of unintended consequences. We've talked about this briefly before, but considering how this has gone on for so long, who Jack Eichel is, what this has done for the Buffalo Sabres, to say nothing of the NHL itself, to say nothing about USA Hockey, who would like Eichel in their lineup come Beijing if the NHLers go, do you think this is forcing the NHL to look at the CBA and say, maybe we need to change this and no i i don't as a matter of fact you know i have teams say to me they are sympathetic to eichel but we do have to have some control over these players that we're paying 80 million dollars to

that they can't do things that we don't want them to do we have to have approval so i don't know that it's going to change you know one thing i have wondered about at some point in time jeff is if you look at some situations where there were agreements made on supplementary discipline between the league and the players association they've put in wording that quote unquote something like this particular agreement cannot be used as a precedent in any future bargaining session or grievance. And I have wondered if at some point they will do a one-off and say that this particular situation does not give anybody the ability to use it in the future and say, oh, Eichel, the Sabres, the league, the Players Association did that,

so we can too. I have wondered if that is possible that will occur, but to this point, I haven't heard that yet. I had someone on the weekend tell me that they were thinking that this will work out, but it still might take a little bit, and that's not something that Eichel or his camp is going to want to hear. That's not great for the player at all or his health. I don't like it.

I've been very clear about this. I don't like this. I think everybody has to find a solution. And I do think the pressure is growing to find a solution. I really do believe that. I think the Sabres look at it like, we made a really good trade here, and we are going to stick to our guns

to make a good trade. I just think everything around them is, we have to find a solution. That leads us to, I got a question about Colorado here in a second, but I want to get to one email, 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca. I know a lot that got sent in.

Thank you for all of them, but this one's specific. Yes, thank you, everyone. Yes, and to the specific topic we're talking about here, both Graham and Ian asked this exact same question about Eichel. Just to clear it up, because I think many people have asked this one. Everyone's sort of creating their situations where, how Eichel can get around this situation right now that he faces with the

Buffalo Sabres and the lack of movement yeah they ask why can't Eichel retire have the desired surgery then come back a year later it's not that simple you'll remember that when Ilya Kovalchuk signed that massive long-term deal with the Devils when he went back to Russia, technically he retired from the NHL, or the contract was terminated with New Jersey, but the Devils still retained his rights until he was 35 years old, which was the age that you became an unrestricted free agent in the NHL. Now, in this particular case, I'm not sure it's the exact same thing. But if the Sabres don't agree to it, technically, Eichel can't just retire and declare himself an unrestricted free agent. It doesn't work that way.

If it did work that way, a lot of people who weren't happy with their situations, I mean, you'd probably love it because it would be total chaos. We'd have 50 guys a year saying, you know what? I don't like this situation. I don't like my contract. I'm terminating my deal and I'm becoming an unrestricted free agent

after a year. I'm not the only one. You would love it too as someone who covers this game. No, you know why I wouldn't like it? Because it would give me too much work. I would go insane trying to keep up with all of this stuff.

We'd all be like cats laser pointers with the amount of free agents that would be popping up. Anyway. It's not that simple. There's a mechanism to prevent that from occurring. The Sabres have to agree to it. And the league has to agree to it, excuse me. Correct.

The league and the PA. So let me ask you about Colorado. I think people might have been surprised to hear that Colorado, considering who they have on the roster and how they're already a Stanley Cup favorites, would inquire about Jack Eichel. Is it just me,

or is Colorado sneakily involved in every big name? Let me give you a list of names. You let me know whether they were involved in trying to get the player. Okay. Taylor Hall. I believe so. Yes. Artemi Panarin. They definitely were interested in Panarin. They made him a big short-term deal.

Seth Jones. He all but admitted to us without saying it for sure that Colorado was in on a one-year thing. Freej, how come no one talks about Colorado? Everyone talks about Vegas being involved in to us without saying it for sure that Colorado was in on a one-year thing. Free agent. How come no one talks about Colorado? Everyone talks about Vegas being involved in these big names. Now they do land them. And of course, most recently Alex Petrangelo, but why do we never consider Colorado as big game hunters?

They are, they're swinging for the fences with all the big guys. Well, you're right. I think it's an excellent point you make, You know, maybe it's because to this point, they really haven't landed one of those guys. So people say, oh, they swing, but they don't land. The other day, they did a really nice ceremony to honor the late Pierre Lacroix. And look who Joe Sackett learned at the feet of.

Pierre Lacroix was the guy who went out and got Patrick Waugh. Pierre Lacroix was the guy who went out and got Patrick Watt Pierre Lacroix was the guy who went out and got Rob Blake so Sackett would remember how all that occurred and he would learn and take advice from him and I absolutely do think that Colorado is the kind of team that says good player let's go get good player so i i think you think about it very smartly and i'm not surprised that colorado was in there i guess maybe the reason we don't talk about the more is because even though they've tried they have to be creative like vegas will go out and they'll sign petrangelo to the massive long-term deal and say, we'll erase what else we have to erase. Colorado won't do that because they're saying, look, we had to do Makar,

and we still have to do McKinnon, and we just did Landeskog. We're loyal to that. So I think that's your difference. But I think it's an excellent, excellent question that you ask. I think the Panarin one was just a one year like whopper wasn't if you go back and you look at how many years they had mckinnon if it was four years it was four years at a huge number like i think you have to go back to the summer he was unrestricted which was two summers ago and look at how many years until mckinnon's deal was up and it was

basically for that window at a massive number um you mentioned vegas there a second ago let's get to vegas uh you talked about them on saturday uh patch ready and stone are headline makers but howden carrie y yanmark in in covid protocol what happens with vegas through all of this for each The one thing everybody forgets is that injured players have to come back. You say, oh, put guys on LTIR. Yeah, that's true. And you can get the cap space, but eventually they have to return. Like if you look at what happened with Toronto the other night,

they didn't want to put any of those guys on LTIR to get the extra cap space. But even if they did, eventually they have to return. And so we know Pacioretty is going to be back. They're thinking about six weeks. I've heard the news on Stone is potentially better than they hoped. Like the word I was getting on Saturday was that, you know, there was some worry it was long-term, but there was some hope it wasn't as bad as initially feared. So these guys are going to return, so you have to be able to put them all on your roster. Now, the one thing you can do is you can do what Tampa Bay did last year, which is keep Kucherov out until the playoffs,

and then it doesn't matter. But I don't know if you're Vegas, you're going to be able to get away with doing that, or you'd even want to do that if guys can return. And so that's why we are where we are um you know vegas they don't want to trade krebs i know you brought up uh haig last night i'm not even convinced they want to include him in that deal i i don't believe they would you know i get so many mixed responses on vegas i've had people tell me if Eichel gets traded, it won't be there.

I've had people tell me that Vegas goes in and then they go out. They don't want to do Krebs. They don't want to do Haig. And other than that, we'll see. The thing I think you're best at saying is what you said before. If there's a great player, Vegas is always around there. I'm just not sure that it's going to happen in this particular case even though he you know seems to fit what they need but the colorado thing the other night what it tells me is who else is out there who else is out there that we haven't thought about there There's got to be someone. And the other thing too is, Jeff,

is that another GM brought up to me a good point. He said in the off season, if you have the 10% cap overage bonus, you don't have that in the regular season. And if Buffalo's not willing to retain, it makes it even harder to get the deal done. I wonder if it's, you know, teams that fall out by the Elliott Friedman November 1st date

that ends up doing the deal. Like we just talked about Montreal a couple of seconds ago. We got a note here from 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca from Stefan from Sweden. I'm going to make a bold prediction here. If the Montreal Canadiens keep losing out of the gate gate they'll make a desperation move for eichel you know we talked about losing philip dino and sure they brought in devorak and they have nick suzuki as their you know long-term number one but if things keep going the way they're going for montreal as we record this

it's own three could you not see an Eichel deal there? I'll tell you this. I think Montreal has been a team that has, at times, been involved in this. The one question I've kind of been asked is, does Bergevin really like him that much to pay what it's going to cost to do it. Now, that could change if things don't get better. You know, you plan, God laughs. The other thing, too, in Montreal is, let's just say for argument's sake that Bergevin's decided he's not coming back next year.

How does the organization feel about that? How does the organization feel about that general manager making that deal or that general manager passing on that deal? Either one. I think you always want... I don't think Bergevin's going to go in there and say, I'm sabotaging the Montreal Canadiens. No, I don't think so.

I don't buy that. No one thinks that. But I do think that you're probably thinking as an ownership group should he be the one doing that because you want a general manager that has skin in the game long term i understand that like no one suggested question no one's saying like berger vans like i'd pick a team that i got tampa bay lightning sleeper agent he's gonna sabotage the half like no one that's so far beyond the pale it's not you want to know what the funniest thing about that is is i had once years ago i had one gm tell me that they were convinced another gm was a sleeper agent for a team like he was self-destructing the team from within for someone else oh that would be the ultimate and i have to say this was

well okay what what era 90s 90s obviously i was still in university at the time so i wasn't covering yeah the nhl then but he he said he and others were convinced that just this gm was a was a sleeper agent. You can make the argument that in the early 70s, a lot of the expansion teams in the NHL, their general managers were sleeper agents for the Montreal Canadiens the way that Sam Pollock used to fleece them

in deals. Well, how many teams did the Norrises used to own? The Norrises used to own, what, two or three teams, right? Yeah, three teams. And what about the Quebec League? Like the Morissettes, how many teams did they own? It has happened. Yep.

But anyway, the point is, I don't think that Bergervan's a sleeper agent. That's just something I kind of threw out there. I don't know how the organization feels about that. I don't. I honestly don't. I don't know. I don't know Jeffrey Molson personally at all. I don't know if you do't. I don't know. I don't know Jeffrey Molson personally at all.

I don't know if you do, but I don't know how they organize it. I know that if I were in Montreal's shoes, I mean, you have to really know the person to begin with.

I don't think there's any evidence that he's going to be frivolous about this last season at all, or he's going to make moves that would indicate he's just trying to save a job well specifically considering he doesn't want to sign the extension i've never gotten the sense and i have gotten the sense from general managers previous i don't get a sense that mark bergevin

is frivolous at all i think what he does is very deliberate and he doesn't care what people say about him i don't know if i agree with that i think he's you think he's a frivolous gm no oh i'm talking about the point about not caring what anyone says about him i think that he is he cares about what people say about him well it's it's not that i think he cares about what people say about him it's that one of the reasons i think that we're kind of in this situation where we are in in montreal is with him it's just the stress of the job, right? Yeah. And part of that stress is it's very difficult to shut out all of the different opinions

and all of the things that you're battling on a daily basis to try to keep your team on the same path. I think he is aware of stuff that is said and things that are said and whether he likes it or doesn't like it, I think it does add to the weight to him. I don't think he's frivolous.

I don't think he would be a sleeper agent or throw the team in any particular way. But I think if I was the owner and I didn't know if Mark Bergevin was going to be the GM next season, I think I would want to really look at the process like i don't think he would go and say okay we're trading suzuki romanov and seven first rounders for eichel okay like i don't think that's happening but i do think you have to really look at your process about how you're doing it. There's no question. The interesting thing about any talk about the Montreal Canadiens and Jack Eichel this season, and I don't even know. Well, you tell me whether you think it's a thing or not. Okay.

Okay. Put yourself in the shoes of Jeffrey Molson here. So two years ago, the Montreal Canadiens were supposed to host the draft. That gets scuttled because of COVID. It becomes a virtual draft. Now, this year, the Montreal Canadiens will supposed to host the draft. That gets scuttled because of COVID. It becomes a virtual draft. Now, this year, the Montreal Canadiens will host the NHL draft. I'm glad it went back to Montreal. That is a great move by the National Hockey League.

Agreed. Any trade involving Jack Eichel is going to involve a multitude of first-round picks. We all know that. Yes. The fact that they're holding the draft this year in montreal and that first rounders will be involved do you think that would affect any type of eichel deal for the habs i.e we need a first round pick in this draft we're hosting it we don't make the deal we're really going down the rabbit hole here because we don't even know if they're interested, but I think it's a great question because you can't,

if you're hosting the draft at home, have a situation where maybe Shane Wright's going to Buffalo because of the pick you traded. I think that's an excellent question. You, you have had two excellent questions in today's pod tripling your previous record. I'm just all jazzed after blowing through Spears,

these stop signs on hockey night on Saturday, trying to take the show into the ditch. I think it's a great question. You know, I do think the other team we should mention on this podcast is Chicago. Yep. The stress level has to be enormous there. Colorado, they're down on opening night,

3-0, 10 minutes in. New Jersey on Friday, they give up a goal in the first shot. And then Saturday, Pittsburgh, they're down 4-0, what, 12 minutes in New Jersey on Friday they give up a goal in the first shot and then Saturday Pittsburgh they're down four nothing what 12 minutes in Fleury gets pulled I think you can understand if you lose and the New Jersey thing was a bit of a fluke but you're looking at those games against the Avalanche and against the Penguins and can't always blame coaches for things that go wrong on the ice but you've got to be looking at this and saying are we ready to play like are we ready to start games you have to be asking those questions right now and those are the kinds of things that coaches

do get blamed for and that's what you wonder we all know expectations were high for the blackhawks they remain one of the big question marks for me. We talked about this in the offseason plenty. I had no idea what to expect out of Chicago. No idea. No clue. I had no clue what to expect out of Chicago. I said to myself, they could come out gangbusters, or we could have this.

And neither would surprise me. When you look at the players they brought in and the turnover and the amount of question marks of players that are still there on this rebuilding squad. I had no idea. You mentioned the devil's game. Yeah. Just one thing,

one thing as an, as an aside. And I looked into this as well. And there wasn't even a conversation about it. Yeah. But it was, it was curious. Jack Hughes scores an overtime.

Nice move. Ends up going wide of Bernier, but now it goes bouncing away. And here come the devils down the right wing. They have a Russian on Lankan and trying to move to the middle. Lankan is staying with it. Backhander, though they score. Great individual effort by Jack Hughes.

What a play by Jack Hughes. And he tosses his stick into the hands of the fans over the glass. The Devils take this one in overtime. Oh, wow. Every time you watch the Devils, Hughes does something to pull you out of your seats. This guy, he's starting to grow into his stride in the NHL. It's a pretty cool thing to see.

I love it when you see this with young hockey players. Jack Hughes scores, overtime winner, beautiful move, and throws his stick into the stands. Now, any hockey fan that's been around for a few years will look at that and might say, well, hold on a second here. Matt Sundin got suspended a game for throwing a stick in the stands. What's the difference? I looked into it, and the word was that Sundin was the stick was thrown in anger and it was a dangerous act. And Jack Hughes, you know, made eye contact with fans, lobbed it gently, you know, didn't whip it into the stands.

And the NHL, I think at the end of it too, although this wasn't relayed to me, I think the NHL likes stuff like this now. And I like the fact that there's not this hard and fast, and I'm surprised it got there this fast, how comfortable the NHL is getting with allowing players to have more personality. Well, we'll see when something controversial really happens, but I remember covering the scrum the day that Sundin was suspended for that. That's as angry as I ever saw him's as angry as I ever saw him. As angry as I ever saw him

because he got suspended for a huge game against Ottawa. And you'll remember that Daniel, it was in Toronto and Daniel Alfredson broke his stick and fake throwing a stick into the crowd as he skated off the ice.

Alfredson tries the one-timer again. He faked like he was going to throw it. How good is that? Oh, the leaps are all over him. The bench is all over Daniel Alfredson. I guess you're not allowed to have a sense of humor. Of course, when you're getting beat 7-1, that is probably not the best move in the world. And I will never forget Sundin, how mad as he was. And you know what?

Good. Like, I agree with you overall. I thought the thing was fantastic. Like Hughes, you know, you heard the interview, those of you who listened, that we did with Hughes at the NHL and the Players Association Media Day. You know, the other thing about that was you remember jeff you know he strolled into the room like he owned it yes you know hey how are you guys doing like we

didn't see him initially because we were talking to each other and he strolled into our interview setup like it was big smile hey boys yeah he wasn't coming into our space. We were already in his space. Yeah. And that is one confident lad. I'm a big fan. Very big fan. A quick little aside, and I'm sure there are a lot of equipment geeks that are listening to this podcast right now who can fill me in on the specifics of it.

I think that part of the frustration, and that was a game against Nashville, that Maple Leafs game in 2004. Sandin was one of a number of players that was using the Louisville TPS XN10. And I think he was having problems with it. And there was a key moment, I think it might have been a one-timer, and it broke. And I think it was that level of frustration. He just had it with these sticks specifically, but he had an endorsement deal. And so he chucked it up in the stands. And you'll recall after he served his suspension, almost immediately afterwards, Sundin came back. And remember when he was using those sticks that were just black, just all painted black? Because he changed the stick and he didn't want to embarrass the sponsor or lose the deal? I'm pretty sure it was an Easton.

I don't know what, which kind someone's going to be able to fill me in on this one, but I'm pretty sure that he switched brands on that, but either a didn't want to lose the endorsement deal or B didn't want to embarrass TPS because he was using those X and tens just as an equipment aside. It's a geek in me coming out there, Elliot. I think you're used to it by now.

Oh yeah, I'm well aware of your geeky behavior. I was the geekiest member of this podcast before you were hired. There's no question about that. Okay, so a couple of things. We're seeing shortened shortened benches we're seeing shortened rosters because of salary considerations yes and we're seeing agents uh very vocal about it alan walsh specifically talking about as he's always discussed how he's in favor of a soft cap luxury tax system for situations just like this okay there's no point in arguing about that like i think we all agree that we all hate the cap right who likes the cap owners who want to

keep costs down yeah i get it you hate the cap i hate the cap general hockey fans hate the cap it sucks you know what that's like arguing against air i don't like the flavor of this air i'm again well no you hang on a second because hang on that fight ended that fight and i know that alan walsh was on the other side like there was like the pa was split and we all know which side alan walsh was on but that fight ended in 2005 it's over it's never changing correct okay or if it ever changes it's changing in a way that will still benefit the owners or result in the worst scorched earth battle in the history of pro sports it's not changing i don't think that is changing as long as gary bettman is commissioner that is not changing not only did they get a salary cap

but they did what a lot of owners wanted to do and they got rid of bob good now there was two victories for gary bettman in that one that's huge you can argue about it on twitter because that's what people do is they argue about dumb fights on Twitter, but it's not going anywhere. So, okay, what's a reasonable solution? And I don't think necessarily what happened in particular in Colorado's case is fair. You know, Colorado has McKinnon, who we know now has had two positive tests at least. Yeah. Jack Johnson had a positive, then a negative.

Their coach had a positive. So they're obviously going through something right now, right? Mm-hmm. And, you know, one of the things with Toronto is that Hall was sick, right? And I'm not sure what his testing all was, but Hall was sick, and they needed Lilligrant. But like the thing about Colorado is, and I know they had a suspension, you know, whatever.

But when you're having that kind of situation, there should be an ability to say, we're calling up someone because they have COVID numbers here. I really do believe that. Now I've looked into this and I've been told as of we record this podcast on Sunday night, they're not looking into it because they only have four unvaccinated players and they just generally think they're not going to need to do that. Now you'll remember with the MOU, when they came back for the bubble, there were no compliance buyouts. The owners wanted no money out of the system. And that is part of this too. They want, if you bring up

someone, you have to pay them like the full NHL salary for a day. And the owners, they don't want that. But I'm beginning to think that the alternative, it doesn't make any sense. There has to be a solution for this. You know, Toronto, again, similar kind of situation. Not exact, but similar. It was a great moment for Alex Bishop, and I'm really happy for him. But I'm wondering if during COVID, if there has to be a better way to do this. That maybe for this year, again, they say, if you can't put a guy on long-term,

and why would Colorado put Nathan McKinnon on long-term, a vaccinated player? It makes no sense to me. You've committed to taking him out of your lineup for 10 games or 24 days. Let's find a way to do this. I don't like this. I don't think it's good for the sport.

I don't think it makes any sense. Let me ask you this, point blank. It's a wonderful story for Alex Bishop, wonderful story for his family, and it's a fun one that everybody has, essentially, has a good time with on social media. And I don't want to come in raining down like I'm the fun cops, but here I go. Fun police.

Here comes the fun police. Hey, you sit down. Stop having fun. Get your arms down. Stop waving them in the air like that. Like you're outside some automobile mall and those big, tall, weird things. Is it just flat out a bad look for the league to have someone who's not going to play in this league essentially might have to be ushered into playing in this league? Is there a pros versus Joes element about this?

I don't know. Would this happen in other sports? Probably not. Well, look, I remember when the David Ayers thing happened before Carolina won. I remember coming on in that game during the second intermission and talking about how there were people texting me around the league saying this looks so embarrassing that a Maple Leaf employee

could be going in a game that Toronto has to have for the other team and how bad this looked. And then it turned out to be one of the greatest stories of our lifetime. Like, talk about a take that aged poorly like that was old bad take exposed and i'm willing to say okay if two goalies get injured during a game and you have to put the e-bug in that's different okay that is a fairly unique situation and air's case it led to an incredible moment yes but where i do agree with you is should teams be allowed to put in a minimum salary player like one of the gms point out to me

in the aftermath of this you know the minimum salary is going up the next couple years yeah and the cap isn't going anywhere and he said you, you know, we're all laughing at Toronto right now because, you know, you either with the Maple Leafs, you either really love them or you really hate them. But the point he was making is that what happens when it happens to someone else or the minimum salary goes up and more teams don't have the ability to say okay we need to do this like do you want this happening a lot no to be honest with you i don't want it happening at all i'm okay with it in the air situation two Two goalie goes down and the magic happens. That's organic and it's unusual.

I look specifically at what happened in Colorado and I don't think that's right. If you're dealing with a mini outbreak or whatever it is and everybody's vaccinated, to me, I think there has to be a way to say there's got to be protection here for that. You think they get there? I don't know't know like i said i heard on the weekend there was no conversation about yeah to your point the thing about the heirs thing is he's the e-bug and i get it like you know alex bishop has filled

that role before too but that turned out to be a great like a spectacularly great story another gm was actually talking to me about this. And he's saying, look at the minimum salary. So this year it went up to 750 where it stays next year. And then in 2023, it goes up to 775 for three more years. And one of the things he was saying is that with the cap not going anywhere in the short term, that extra $50,000 and that extra $25,000, that's a big deal. There's teams out there that don't realize how much that's going to squeeze them.

And that's why I just feel that there has to be a way to do this, especially in Colorado's case, where everyone is vaccinated and you're still getting some confirmed positives and some that get overturned. I just think there has to be a way. Okay. From that, let's turn our attention to our final topic before we wrap up this podcast today. And by the way, thanks to everyone for emailing in at 32thoughtsatsportsnet.ca. Much appreciated. More emails in a

subsequent podcast later on this week. I mentioned on Saturday four retiring officials, three referees, Mark Chouinette, Brad Meyer, Dean Morton, and one linesman, Vaughn Rohde, all calling it a career at the end of this season. The NHL is really losing

officials who get I mean, we always talk about teams aging out and, oh, aging curve. That applies for officials as well. As this game is becoming more and more fast, foot speed is always at a premium, but this game moves so quick. We never consider what that means

from an official's point of view. Like right now, Frej, two things. One, it's tough to get people to actually, because you consider how officials have been treated for so long. It's tough to get people to get interested in it on the one hand. And two, I mean, if you want to become an official in the NHL now, when they recruit, the first thing they're looking for is can you skate? Can you keep up for three periods?

Like long gone are the lovable old referee with the big barrel and sort of waddling up and down the ice. Now you need to skate to position fast to make a call. And then have eyes and awareness, situational and actual actual to make that call like right now they're looking at officials who have you know d1 experience and probably played some pro hockey either at the echl level maybe the american hockey league level played in europe whatever it's tough to make it as an official right now as a lot of officials in the NHL are aging themselves out because just quite basically they can't keep up physically anymore. Like we're talking about a young man's game for players becoming a young person's game now for the officials as well. What I would say to people

out there is that if you're a young person who wants to be an official, male or female, make sure you work on your skating. Maybe you aren't a good enough player to make it in the National Hockey League, which is no insult. There's plenty of great players who can't make it in the National Hockey League, but that doesn't mean you can't make it as an official. If you still want that lifestyle, if you still want to be involved in the game, work on that because there will be a spot for you potentially in this way. And I would say that not only for young men, I would also say that for young women, just in the sense that I think that if you're a female official and we're seeing more and more of them, you highlighted Katie Gay on Saturday night and Kelly Cook officiated a game on Sunday.

But the thing is, speed is going to be critical for those officials too. It doesn't matter what sex you are. If you can't move and you can't keep up with the play, you're not going to make it at the elite level. So that's one thing I would tell any young person out there who's interested in being in the NHL. And if they don't see the path as a player, doesn't mean you can't make the path as an official. You just have to be able to skate. You know,

I also think, and I don't know that I'd go so far as to make it mandatory, but I think it would be, should be strongly suggested from either USA hockey or from hockey Canada for young hockey players. What's that? I don't know how you would put the program together, but I really think it would be valuable for everybody

if there was a program put in place where hockey players, male and female, also, obviously for younger age groups, tried officiating a couple of games. Have you ever tried to officiate a game, Elliot? I did try one, like rec hockey. That's what I mean. My skating wasn't good enough to keep up with the play.

I've officiated other sports. I've umpired baseball. I've officiated basketball. I did volleyball once. By the way, I did a volleyball game once where I made one of the worst calls I think any volleyball official has ever made. I really do enjoy officiating, but I know my

skating isn't good enough to be a good hockey official. Here's my question because it did for me, because just in rec league, like I officiated a couple of games and it totally changed the way A, I behaved towards officials and B, how I saw the game. Yeah.

I loved it. And it, to the point where, you know, once my schedule and who knows how many years that'll be, it might be sooner than later. Who knows my work schedule and kids hockey schedule. What I want to do is I want to be a volunteer ref somewhere down the road and just give back that way. of times for in a couple of situations where i remember there was one baseball game i did it for where the umpires didn't show and the kids wouldn't weren't able to get a game and i just happened to be there visiting a friend whose son was playing on one of the teams and i did it and i loved it i don't know if i have the time to do it but i did really enjoy it so i think it's a great idea jeff like this is the hat trick of good ideas for you, and normally your questions and ideas are garbage. Yeah.

Well, that's it. I've used up my quota. I'll get good ideas again sometime in the new year. One thing I did want to tell you is that in that game, I stepped in as an umpire. Yeah. The kids did the hidden ball trick, but they didn't tell me. So I missed the call.

Oh, no way. No. Well, the guy was off the bag, i said to the kid i say he goes he's out i had the hidden ball i said you know you're supposed to tell the umpire you're doing that beforehand like i think because it was after a pitching change right yeah and so i didn't see the pitcher give the ball to the i think it was the shortstop or the second baseman i can't remember which one it was i said in the in the majors, when you do that, you tell the umpire in advance so that he's prepared.

He's like, well, the kid was out. I said, I can't call the kid out when I didn't see it. And it was just, it was so ridiculous because even the parents were like, you can't blame him for that one. Like I thought the parents were going to kill me. I said, kid, man, if you're going to do that, you have to tell the umpire in advance.

Listen, mom's dad, you have a son, daughter playing hockey. Encourage them to at least try a fishing, even if it's just for a pickup game. Give it a shot because it'll totally change the way your son or daughter sees the game and maybe behaves around officials. And maybe it'll change the way you behave towards officials in youth slash minor hockey.

Oh, by the way, one little note I wanted to point out too. Did you notice the number that Katie Gay was wearing on Saturday in the Lehigh Valley-Wilkes-Barre-Scranton game? You did. 99. Yeah. I texted her thereafter. I said, you always wear 99? She's like, no, they just gave it to me.

I thought that was a really nice touch. I hope that it's deliberate because that'd be a very cool number for Katie Gay to wear deliberately on the day that the first female officiates in the American Hockey League. It's either go big or go home, Jeff. That's the way it is because either people are going to say, great to give her that number or why

would you give her that number? There's going to be no in-between on this one. It's true. Well, I'm in camp. I love it. So congratulations to Katie Gay for being the first, much like congratulations to officials like Kirsten Welsh, who became the first in the OHL to work the lines of a game there. Okay, 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca.

Elliot, let's get in some emails. Let's go to Matt. If the NHL stops going, do you see a scenario where the World Junior Tournament could be moved to the Olympics, not this year, but in future Olympics? I think it's way too early to say. 2026 is Milano Cortina. I'm curious, is the NHL going to want to go to that one?

I have no idea. The only reason I would say no to the question is, the World Juniors is a big IIHF Hockey Canada moneymaker, right? Oh, boy. Listen, it floats a lot of what Hockey Canada does. It floats a ton of other programs. That is a huge moneymaker for Hockey Canada. So 2026 is supposed to be in Canada.

You think Canada is giving that up for the Olympics? No, I don't. But I'll tell you, see, I don't think from that point of view. Zero chance. I agree. But here's why I find that intriguing. I mean, right now, international hockey has a lot of players that we know all playing on different teams, just organized not by club teams, but organized by nationality.

But we know all these players. There's no mystery. Zero chance. I know. But the thing about the World Junior Championships is there's still mystery about these players. There's your first chance to see a lot of these guys. Like, honestly, Elliot, I don't think we we appreciate enough how

much of a luxury that you and i had growing up and watching international hockey and we really didn't know other than players existing in these mythical ways like remember all the talk about the klm line before you actually saw it zero chance jeff you have just wasted two minutes of these people's lives. I know there's zero chances happening. I'm just telling you why. As a fan, I like it. I know there is, as Elliot puts it, zero chance that that's happening. But one of the things that I've always liked about international hockey

is the mystery about it and the intrigue about seeing players that you've never seen before. Like the first time you saw Fedorov, the first time you saw Bure and McGilney and Peter Forsberg. Like that was special. Amo, cut and paste. Zero chance. I think we have a title now for the podcast this week zero chance here's one okay so this one

uh did lou lamarillo bring in chara for the sole or major purpose of bringing along noah dobson i don't know if i would say that i i think that he feels that chara can play and number two i think does he want people in his can play. And number two, I think, does he want people in his organization that others are going to look at and say, this is who I'd like to learn from. Yeah, I think,

but I just don't, I don't think in this day and age, you just bring in guys. Cause I want Noel Dobson to learn from them. Yes. I think you hope he does, but I don't see that as purely the reason. I think he sees it as i can win with this guy

by the way on the last podcast i wondered whether that was the biggest age gap between pairs noah dobson and zidane ochara and the answer is no i wondered about bogosian and chelios and I had both Steve Fallon, Sportsnet Stats, and Ryan Lambert point out that Bogosian was 19, Chelios was 48. I think the first time was April 1st, 2010, Atlanta versus Washington. And here's the great one, Frege. Lambert sends me this. a great one for each lambert sends me this chara would have to be paired with someone born in 2005 to break that record age gap from chelios and bogosian are there any uh 16 year olds in the nhl right now yeah i don't know i don't know what the answer is, Jeff? Zero. Zero chance.

On that, we'll wrap it up properly here. Thanks so much for joining us today on the podcast. Very much appreciated. And for using the email 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca. Don't forget, news on the thought line coming soon. All right. Taking us out, a Nottingham, my in-laws, who are English, will hate me saying it that way. A Nottingham, there we go, a Nottingham, my in-laws who are English will hate me saying it that way.

A Nottingham, there we go, a Nottingham-based musician whose sound walks the line of rural folk and urban post-punk. Kai Burns, stage name Blood Wizard, released his debut record, Western Spaghetti, back in March. And according to Kai, quote, the record is a kind of mashup of all the influences that I've had for a long time, but never had the opportunity to channel into something, end quote. From his record, Western Spaghetti, here's Blood Wizard with Somehow I Knew on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. You weren't in the room, somehow I knew it You had left too soon, and you missed it And I missed you How did I do? Did I keep my cool? Did you see me because I saw you?

Or did I dream it?